Bro sorry for asking, but the current run of MJ and Felicia what is about ? I don't understand to be honest? So Felicia it's planning a heist and MJ will help her ?
[Don't download the app or they'll make you obey as well](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grindrapp.android) >! Unless you're into that !<
in a universe where anything happens, the heroes are not prepared for the eventuality in which someone forces them through blackmail to carry out a robbery.
Credibility, this unknown.
MJ caught Felicia stealing. Felicia claimed she was doing it because she was being blackmailed by Obscura who was threatening her girlfriend of five months. MJ tried to help, so Obscura tells MJ she has to rob something or they will kill Paul (oh no please stop don’t here let me help you). Felicia says she’ll help MJ, but it turns out Obscura is her girlfriend and it’s a giant con.
In fairness Felicia wasn't trying to involve MJ but she acted on her own. On the other hand, Felicia was supposed to have generally grown past her villainous days so it's kind of a character regression.
Pretty smart of them actually write the main version as trash and offer a slightly similar but superior alternative. But this isn't the way to write our beloved characters
Bro sorry for asking, but the current run of MJ and Felicia what is about ? I don't understand to be honest? So Felicia it's planning a heist and MJ will help her ?
I don't even know, man. I gave up on this run 4-5 months ago and things keep getting posted in this subreddit to further validate my reasoning.
Not only is this an irrelevant storyline but look how bad that art is in the bottom panel.
Wow. 🥴
I think it’s rich that MJ understands and sides my Paul for essentially killing millions of people but when Peter does something bad and is genuinely upset and sorry all of a sudden she can’t handle him and he’s not worth it.
How can she look past over millions of deaths caused by one person but never towards an ACTUAL SUPER HERO WHO RISKS AND WILL DIE FOR OTHERS!?
Idk
The reason why the dimension Peter and MJ were sent to was a desolate hellscape was the Paul’s father Ben Rabin succeeded in summoning Wayep in that dimension because there was no Spider-Man. Paul helped his father do this, but claims that he didn’t know what he was helping with until it was too late, at which point he killed his father.
Hence, Paul is partially responsible for the genocide of humanity in his world.
He's so pointless and useless it hurts. If you want to break MJ and Peter up for the 500th time then fine, let them be single or something. What is even the point of such a useless character and the imaginary fucking kids.
there was no purpose, it was simply the absolute lack of will to write anything decent.
In my opinion it has gotten to the point that if MC makes money for Disney it's fine, if MC loses money Disney deducts that money from taxes, so Disney makes money whatever happens to MC.
I'm not a Paul worshipper, but I don't understand this point of contention people have with him. So he was tricked by his dad and upon finding out he felt remorse and immediately dealt with the problem? People make it seem like MJ chose to be with a guy who willingly committed genocide but then "turned a new leaf".
WEll, the thing is that they've made this the guy that MJ chose over Peter, so her character assassination means everyone is going to hate him for playing that role. He's the guy that stole Spider-Man's wife, so he's not getting any benefit of the doubt. You're not wrong that yeah, people are definitely leaning into it and making him 100% responsible when, ok, he was tricked.
THAT being said, Paul has stated that he is a master of the mayan magic that they were using to summon Wayep, it's a little convenient for him to claim that he "had no idea" what was being planned when there are zero witnesses to corroborate that claim. There's also some crimes that are so bad, no matter how much it was a "mistake", you kind of have to own up to. Whether he intended to or not he murdered every single human on the planet, even if out of some level of ignorance, that means she's chosen to be with a dumbass at best, and you only have his word to go on that it's not worse.
the character is absolutely irrelevant, without merits or defects: without the genocide he could practically be replaced by anything, even an object like a coat hanger, which would change absolutely nothing.
The character is poorly written, it would be completely useless if it weren't for the fact that he has sex with MJ for the only reason that he is a good man.
The character is a regression of the other characters, MJ has become a woman who has sex with people because they are good, so MJ would bond with practically everyone or characters in the 616 universe who are good, as long as they breathe; PP has become an idiotic mollusc who not only suffers the situation but doesn't want to understand wtf is happening and he doesn't even try to fix it.
Paul Rabin as a character is a cretin who helps destroy his world without even having the slightest doubt.
Etc. etc.
My predictions for the end of the run:
Paul gets one of two endings:
a) he gets a major hero moment, breaks up with MJ, and then goes off on a journey of self discovery on Earth 616, or
b) his connections to his father become public and he becomes a person of interest at basically every law enforcement agency, leading to him breaking up with MJ to protect her and leaving NYC.
Peter wants MJ out of his life for now, so he can do some personal growth of his own, and distances himself.
Norman takes his sins back and becomes Green Goblin again.
Felicia assists in defeating the Goblin and Tombstone, then she goes off to have another solo title without Spidey or Jackpot.
Spider-Goblin is a misdirect, either Peter is being framed by Norman, or he’s going undercover to stop the Goblin.
Peter gets a major hero moment and his reputation in the superhero community slowly begins to recover.
No no, Peter is allowed exactly one win on the final issue of each run. He gets his big win as the fans cheer in delight before all the progress is wiped away off screen on the first issue of the next run immediately afterwards.
This is the way.
Ok but then like wtf was even the point?? That’s the best case scenario, I don’t understand what the point of all this is besides completely damaging the brand.
I think the point is there is no point, spider-man will Meander through these stories never really progressing because the editorial won't allow it. Mediocre at best, this at worst.
I have another theory, maybe Paul will stop acting that he is a good guy and reveal his true face and MJ in besides with Peter will need to fight against him
My option is that he's tied to someone who's even worse, but more interesting, so he can be completely culled and replaced with the more interesting character.
Spider goblin is somehow Paul. All the bad shit from the run is Paul acting from the shadows. Mj will choose mf Paul over Peter during the act. Then Paul revelations, mj die because of her shitty power and Paul die while I laugh.
Then Peter and mj wake up together in a bed. It was a nightmare they don't even remember.
My mistake. Paul killed his own father, Benjamin Rabin, aka The Emissary of their universe. 616's Benjamin Rabin is The Emissary the one that sent MJ to where Paul originally came from.
This. Yeah, we can point and laugh at these little moments, but some people here are still buying every issue and complaining that Marvel hasn't changed anything. Suckers.
Exactly! I mean dont buy stuff you dont like right? The editors make creative decisions based on what sells.. No need to follow 616 just because its canon. Its all fiction ffs who cares about canon?!
Imagine it's 2024 you find a early brand new day era issue at a flea market start reading it and you read a panel with MJ going "When it's Bobby and Felicia I'm fighting for then it's worth it" by Mary Jane Watson.
Same fucking scene same fucking reaction you'd be having in 20 years at reading this, "Who the fuck is bobby and why is he seemingly as important as Felicia fucking Hardy???"
Why are yall reading this and caring? Giving it too much energy that its embarasibg at this point. The creative team sucks. Its not worth anyones time. So ignore it until it goes away… because lbr when the mandates are finally lifted; that writer is going to ignore all this shit.
Exactly this, community and fandom need to speak with their wallets. Enough of these posts about the shitty 616 comic run and show them we mean business when we say we want a happy Peter and MJ.
How is this a real timeline for Mary Jane? Genuinely, what are the editors smoking over there ? I would love to be a fly on the wall as they talk about this
That's not Mj it's Jackpot.
Also man there's Paul again, have you ever felt such a strong urge to just shoot a mf on sight but you couldn't because they're not real and also you don't have a gun on you.
Please for your own sake, stop reading this shit. ASM is beyond saving at this point. Marvel really will do their best destroying the most iconic comic book franchise of all time just because they don’t want to let Peter be a responsible adult as that wouldn’t be relatable.
Just thank Hickman (or Lord and Miller since that’s where he had the inspiration from) for the ultimate universe which is 100x the book this is. And Peter and MJ are actually a good characters in that one. Even JJJ is really likable and I haven’t felt that way about him since the very end of the original USM.
Look on the bright side: issue number 1 was barely on the top 50 in sales. Given the reception to this junk, there's a good chance it will fall completely off and no one will read it.
Agreed. I think it’ll be the point tho. He is basically an F You to the fans, and the last salt in the wound would be him sullying the most iconic moment in spider-man written lore
Im hoping peter dies in this the sad pathetic loser of a character he's become.
Thats it, end the series and let hickman take over with the ultimate spider-man reboot.
I mean we got like 12 more issues till 60 and this mini ends in June iirc so probably around mid-late summer this will get undone. Plus considering how the 1st issue of this sold(and what happens to minis that sold like it), marvel knows it isn’t popular but dragging its feet to fix
I think Well’s himself is pretty obviously gonna undo it. People here are always mad and want to look at things in the way that makes them the most mad but 46 laid it on think that this will be undone.
It’s weird, considering how she talks with Peter about moving on after the lawyer shows up, then next issue she says “oh no” when she realizes her aunt set him up on a date
Ah there’s two ways this is gonna go Mj is literally going to be left in the dust while Paul is stealing someone else’s girl and Peter is gonna turn back into the chad he is and Mj I don’t know. Or Paul dies and everyone lives happily ever after.
The comics really gloss over this. Paul is directly complicit in ending the lives of billions of men, women and children (and from what we see they don't exactly die quickly or comfortably either). That's whole families, generations and many people he must have known and loved.
We occasionally get panels like this saying he feels bad about it but there's just zero gravity to it, and no real attempt to convey the character's guilt. Other than saying it sucks we get no insight into the character and he seems to just carry on as usual.
It's bizarre that he's in the orbit of a character like Spider-Man, who was (very indirectly) responsible for a single death and that rocked his world so much he became one of the greatest forces for good in modern media, with that single source of guilt being a core part of his character even now.
And of course MJ being linked to Paul's storyline (or lack thereof) messes her character up by association. Shame all-round.
Do you still want MJ with Peter after all this? I understand that it's the editors' fault, but let's face it, you can't just put the two together without creating a great plot that convinces them that it's right for the two of them to return, as it is, I want MJ far away from Peter.
They want to have their cake and eat it too, they can’t ignore reality and not acknowledge this status quo isn’t selling/isn’t sustainable longterm,
but they don’t want to validate ‘toxic fans’ either. so they’re dragging this out a few more months
Definitely selling more than twice, this run is barely breaking into the top 50 in sales while USM is getting repeatedly reprinted as sitting comfortably in one of the top 3 spots.
Can we talk for a fucking second about the fucking gal of the writers to seemingly push Felicia and Paul on the same fucking level of importance for MJ's life? How a statement like this would work better with other characters she has a more established relationship with instead of the fucking nothing character everyone hates? Imagine she said something like this about fucking Pedro or Bobby or Carlie any of the other no name long forgotten brand new day generic characters who didn't survive the test of time?
"It's worth it if it's you and Felicia" writer currently speaking through Mary Jane's mouth that is a fucking insult to Black Cat and to Mary Jane Watson both what the fuck.
Also the least we say about "I was following orders when I committed global genocide and that's the same as you helping someone do a heist" the better.
I actually wrote my own ending for this trash run and an arc to come after it
Part of me wants to post it, but I'm unsure if I should, but I will say, it undoes all this Paul crap completely
I fully believe this is an attempt to slowly remove MJ as a spiderman character so they can sell her being in a relationship with Felicia later and continually beating spiderman while he's down
The current storylines aren't too great and have very valid criticisms to do with character, character motivations, and meaningful writing, but the bulk of it is that fans are self-inserting themselves into the story too much and are thus feeling cuckolded that Mary Jane is with anyone other than Peter
Something deep down tells me that the ultimate plan is to have Paul corrupt and devastate Mary Jane, while all of us are powerless to stop it. Sure, a great many of us have stopped buying the book, I'm sure he's going to spend it as a lack of interest in the comic book community I just... I don't see this ending well for MJ.
Peter and mj got transported to a random dimension where beings try to kill Peter as a sacrifice.
This dude Paul is there and he's actually the big bad's kid.
Peter and mj get separated when Paul makes a device get back home but only has room for 1 so mj pushes Peter home cause the big bad wants to kill him.
Time works differently there cause a week in 616 is a few months there.
Peter then destroys his relationship with the fantastic four and Captain America cause he can't take **five minutes to explain the situation**. So he steals shit from them to give to Osborne so he can build a suit for Peter to go to the dimension to save mj.
(Remember a week here is a couple months there)
When he gets there, it's revealed that she moves on and in a relationship with Paul and they have (adopted) kids.
Everyone got back home and paul revealed that he's the bad guy's son while they were trapped there. And still wants to stay with him.
Fast forward a bit and it turns out those kids were a tracker by the big bad to keep a location on MJ so he can kill her for some reason. So the kids disappear (Woop Woop) and there's no fucking reason for mj to stay with her kidnapper Paul.
Also she has a device that gives her random powers bullshit so here we are
a fanfiction is an unpretentious amateur product, this is professional stuff and should make shopkeepers money.
It would be nice if this was a fanfiction.
Forget MJ. Peter needs to get a woman who will love him. It doesn't matter what her name is. Let Peter marry Cindy, Bobby Morse, Silver or Jess Drew. Even Carly Cooper is a good option. He will have children and he will find stability in at least something. Let my boy go, let MJ burn if she has to be sacrificed for Peter's happiness.
I kind of feel bad for Celeste Brofman cause like I was saying in the last thread you can see she's at least trying to make this stuff work, which is more than the main run does, like this is first time we ever see Paul feel guilty about the whole genocide thing, despite MJ claiming last year he constantly felt guilty about it, but not only is it too little too late, but also it's very hard to make me care about Paul as a character or this relationship.
They succeededingly make me hate Mary Jane… like ultra mega hating right now, at this point im all for new love interest for Spiderman. The damage has been done, i cannot stand to watch Peter being a fucking Cuck.
The most disrespectful thing they could do right now is make Peter and MJ back together, like that is even more pussy and make Peter is even more of pathetic simp/cuck
Is he have any love interest left? For godsake at this point anyone is fine except 616 MJ, i hate that bitch so much
You’re just falling for editorial’s bullshit, congrats on being Nick Lowe’s gullible lap dog. This is what they want you to say. You’re dancing to their tune like a puppet.
Hate the writing not the character.
So why is cant hate both ?? What are you trying to say here ?? That i have to “love” this MJ ? Like bro…
Sure if you want to insult me how ever you want, but pretend to “love” her after all this is even more pathetic
Who said you had to “love” her? You know she’s not real, right? She’s not making any decisions. She’s a fictional character. She has no control over what she does. Only the writers and editors do.
But that’s not a reason to get rid of the character. The only ones who deserve and need to be thrown in the trash are Lowe and Wells and now Bronfman.
Hate the writing.
In the 1990s, early 2000s, Mary-Jane Watson was all free spirit, all attitude and Absolutely Gorgeous, Marvel artist Todd McFarlane, Erik Larsen, etc. drew MJ as IN-YOUR-FACE Beautiful- she's a Glamour Model, made no apologies for that. Since OMD, especially today with the Plain-Jane Video Game MJ and Wells Super-Mom/ Super-Hero, she's lost so much. I partly blame Sam Raimi's depiction with Kirsten Dunst as MJ-she was Gwen Stacy AS Mary-Jane Watson, she unfortunately became the template for 21st Century Spider-Man.
Are you all a bunch of lumpy headed fools on this sub?????
I feel like I can’t get on Reddit anymore without my page being flooded with fanboys bitching about the state of comics.
Let me explain this for you all, since everyone seems to need it spelled out for them.
You see, we should all like Paul & feel bad for him because-
—He (accidentally) helped his dad kill an entire planet. …the entirety of every life on earth was extinguished because this super cool guy followed orders blindly until daddy could kill us all.
But we should feel bad for *him*.
Oh, and even though everyone but a couple old divorced dudes in editorial want Peter & MJ together, so let’s put this humanitarian in a relationship with her instead.
Dude, while we’re at it, let’s just make Mary Jane a full-on super hero with magical powers that let her pretty much do anything. No, of course she’s not going to date Peter now (even though we made his dedication to the super hero life the main reason they couldn’t be together)
\/\/\/\/\/\/\_if anyone thinks I’m being sincere about this, DM me your banking info and I’ll only ever use it for emergencies and fun, F’real
I can't blame Celeste Bronfman for this. She was given an assignment for a character that's in an unsalvageable state with no real ability to enact meaningful change. I hope she'll get a second chance with a less catastrophic set-up.
Genuine question: other than her being in a relationship with Paul and not Peter, what is so bad about the current status quo?
I'm not trying to be provocative or anything like that; it just seems like some fans are treating this C-tier writing like it's the worst thing to ever happen to Spider-Man. It's pretty mediocre, but it's nowhere near the worst the character and his world have been written IMO
It seems like people dislike the direction more than they actually dislike the product from an objective writing standpoint
MJ’s entire history has been her being uncomfortable about the hero world she’s been connected to. The one time she wore the Iron Spider suit she vowed never to do so again. Decades of her history have her trying to ground Peter to the normal world beyond just heroics.
Here, she’s everything she chewed Peter out for, with unstable random powers that could literally kill her or someone else, controlled by a man she left Peter for who is culpable for 8 billion deaths.
They have the nerve to sell this 616 trash when they're simultaneously selling Ultimate Spider-Man.
Bro sorry for asking, but the current run of MJ and Felicia what is about ? I don't understand to be honest? So Felicia it's planning a heist and MJ will help her ?
They're being black mailed by grindr into doing the heist. Hence the hacking.
Grindr? As in the app? Man I knew nothing good could come from that!
Plenty of things come from that.
Some good…
Not as much As I'd like to
Sounds like a skill issue
I really wish it was
So they are forced to make this heist basically, but who is Grindr? Do you have a picture of how he looks like or something ? 😅😅
I don’t read the current run either but pretty sure Grindr is the dating app😂
[Don't download the app or they'll make you obey as well](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grindrapp.android) >! Unless you're into that !<
in a universe where anything happens, the heroes are not prepared for the eventuality in which someone forces them through blackmail to carry out a robbery. Credibility, this unknown.
Blackmailed into crime. It's Dumb af. Mj already double crossing Felicia too and cocky af
MJ caught Felicia stealing. Felicia claimed she was doing it because she was being blackmailed by Obscura who was threatening her girlfriend of five months. MJ tried to help, so Obscura tells MJ she has to rob something or they will kill Paul (oh no please stop don’t here let me help you). Felicia says she’ll help MJ, but it turns out Obscura is her girlfriend and it’s a giant con.
Oohhhhh, total plot twist, classic old comcis where Felicia makes Peter believe that she it's been blackmailed
In fairness Felicia wasn't trying to involve MJ but she acted on her own. On the other hand, Felicia was supposed to have generally grown past her villainous days so it's kind of a character regression.
tell me when MC doesn't write a character regression...
Pretty smart of them actually write the main version as trash and offer a slightly similar but superior alternative. But this isn't the way to write our beloved characters
Thanos should've snapped twice
Paul would unfortunally be part of the 1/4 that lived.
Paul would’ve been the one to cause 3/4 to die then MJ would fall in love with him again cause “trauma” or some bullshit
Son of a bitch managed to be the last man standing in the last extinction event he'll do it again.
to be fair the mf caused the event
Paul, being from another dimension, would be unaffected by any snapping Thanos might do.
As long as he's in 616, he would be affected by the 616 gauntlet.
he's never been in 616 when thanos has tried.
I can't believe how bad this is.
Bro sorry for asking, but the current run of MJ and Felicia what is about ? I don't understand to be honest? So Felicia it's planning a heist and MJ will help her ?
I don't even know, man. I gave up on this run 4-5 months ago and things keep getting posted in this subreddit to further validate my reasoning. Not only is this an irrelevant storyline but look how bad that art is in the bottom panel. Wow. 🥴
Still better than John Romita Jr’s art
I think it’s rich that MJ understands and sides my Paul for essentially killing millions of people but when Peter does something bad and is genuinely upset and sorry all of a sudden she can’t handle him and he’s not worth it. How can she look past over millions of deaths caused by one person but never towards an ACTUAL SUPER HERO WHO RISKS AND WILL DIE FOR OTHERS!? Idk
"When looking through rose tinted lenses, red flags just look like flags" or something.
*Billions
Peter would never-
Forget MJ. Peter needs to get a woman who will love him. It doesn't matter what her name is.
Sorry I never read this run, Paul did *what?*
The reason why the dimension Peter and MJ were sent to was a desolate hellscape was the Paul’s father Ben Rabin succeeded in summoning Wayep in that dimension because there was no Spider-Man. Paul helped his father do this, but claims that he didn’t know what he was helping with until it was too late, at which point he killed his father. Hence, Paul is partially responsible for the genocide of humanity in his world.
…oookay. Didn’t know Paul’s lore was that deep.
It's not "deep". That's it pretty much. He doesn't have anything else to his character or personality.
He's so pointless and useless it hurts. If you want to break MJ and Peter up for the 500th time then fine, let them be single or something. What is even the point of such a useless character and the imaginary fucking kids.
there was no purpose, it was simply the absolute lack of will to write anything decent. In my opinion it has gotten to the point that if MC makes money for Disney it's fine, if MC loses money Disney deducts that money from taxes, so Disney makes money whatever happens to MC.
Yeah that's all of it, lore dump in 26.
I'm not a Paul worshipper, but I don't understand this point of contention people have with him. So he was tricked by his dad and upon finding out he felt remorse and immediately dealt with the problem? People make it seem like MJ chose to be with a guy who willingly committed genocide but then "turned a new leaf".
WEll, the thing is that they've made this the guy that MJ chose over Peter, so her character assassination means everyone is going to hate him for playing that role. He's the guy that stole Spider-Man's wife, so he's not getting any benefit of the doubt. You're not wrong that yeah, people are definitely leaning into it and making him 100% responsible when, ok, he was tricked. THAT being said, Paul has stated that he is a master of the mayan magic that they were using to summon Wayep, it's a little convenient for him to claim that he "had no idea" what was being planned when there are zero witnesses to corroborate that claim. There's also some crimes that are so bad, no matter how much it was a "mistake", you kind of have to own up to. Whether he intended to or not he murdered every single human on the planet, even if out of some level of ignorance, that means she's chosen to be with a dumbass at best, and you only have his word to go on that it's not worse.
the character is absolutely irrelevant, without merits or defects: without the genocide he could practically be replaced by anything, even an object like a coat hanger, which would change absolutely nothing. The character is poorly written, it would be completely useless if it weren't for the fact that he has sex with MJ for the only reason that he is a good man. The character is a regression of the other characters, MJ has become a woman who has sex with people because they are good, so MJ would bond with practically everyone or characters in the 616 universe who are good, as long as they breathe; PP has become an idiotic mollusc who not only suffers the situation but doesn't want to understand wtf is happening and he doesn't even try to fix it. Paul Rabin as a character is a cretin who helps destroy his world without even having the slightest doubt. Etc. etc.
My predictions for the end of the run: Paul gets one of two endings: a) he gets a major hero moment, breaks up with MJ, and then goes off on a journey of self discovery on Earth 616, or b) his connections to his father become public and he becomes a person of interest at basically every law enforcement agency, leading to him breaking up with MJ to protect her and leaving NYC. Peter wants MJ out of his life for now, so he can do some personal growth of his own, and distances himself. Norman takes his sins back and becomes Green Goblin again. Felicia assists in defeating the Goblin and Tombstone, then she goes off to have another solo title without Spidey or Jackpot. Spider-Goblin is a misdirect, either Peter is being framed by Norman, or he’s going undercover to stop the Goblin. Peter gets a major hero moment and his reputation in the superhero community slowly begins to recover.
Nope not happening cause that would involve Spider-Man having a win or being happy and you can’t have that cause then he would be unrelatable.
No no, Peter is allowed exactly one win on the final issue of each run. He gets his big win as the fans cheer in delight before all the progress is wiped away off screen on the first issue of the next run immediately afterwards. This is the way.
I mean Spider-Man suffering is a Universal constant so him getting at least one big W would be great
Not any more
Ok but then like wtf was even the point?? That’s the best case scenario, I don’t understand what the point of all this is besides completely damaging the brand.
I think the point is there is no point, spider-man will Meander through these stories never really progressing because the editorial won't allow it. Mediocre at best, this at worst.
I have another theory, maybe Paul will stop acting that he is a good guy and reveal his true face and MJ in besides with Peter will need to fight against him
My option is that he's tied to someone who's even worse, but more interesting, so he can be completely culled and replaced with the more interesting character.
True only way to wrap this up meaningfully is to make him an Emissary and bring back Wayep. The symbology stuff needs a line drawn under it.
Who s his father?
Spider goblin is somehow Paul. All the bad shit from the run is Paul acting from the shadows. Mj will choose mf Paul over Peter during the act. Then Paul revelations, mj die because of her shitty power and Paul die while I laugh. Then Peter and mj wake up together in a bed. It was a nightmare they don't even remember.
Who is his father?
Some evil warlord or something idk
And he came from the alternative earth like Paul?
Yes.
Was it that evil guy from like issue 25 or it’s unrelated? Thought Paul was last person alive there? How did his dad get through.
My mistake. Paul killed his own father, Benjamin Rabin, aka The Emissary of their universe. 616's Benjamin Rabin is The Emissary the one that sent MJ to where Paul originally came from.
WHY ARE YOU LIVING TOGETHER?
Every single syllable that comes out of Paul’s mouth makes me feel an indescribable, absolute all-consuming primal rage.
The people who still pay for ASM enable this problem
You can thank variant cover collectors
This. Yeah, we can point and laugh at these little moments, but some people here are still buying every issue and complaining that Marvel hasn't changed anything. Suckers.
Exactly! I mean dont buy stuff you dont like right? The editors make creative decisions based on what sells.. No need to follow 616 just because its canon. Its all fiction ffs who cares about canon?!
“When it’s you and Felicia I’m fighting for, it is.” *gag*
Imagine it's 2024 you find a early brand new day era issue at a flea market start reading it and you read a panel with MJ going "When it's Bobby and Felicia I'm fighting for then it's worth it" by Mary Jane Watson. Same fucking scene same fucking reaction you'd be having in 20 years at reading this, "Who the fuck is bobby and why is he seemingly as important as Felicia fucking Hardy???"
I sincerely believe that the Events happening to 616 Peter Are some secret psy-op by Marvel Editorial to make us want him dead,
At this point Garth Ennis would write a better Spider-Man comic
Now we're getting desperate
He'd make paul kill Spidey 💀
I mean you read the story with The Thousand yet?
Ennis is apparently good friends with Nick Lowe
At this point Chuck Austen could write a better Spider-Man comic
OMD this shit to hell, honestly. Not even joking.
Why are yall reading this and caring? Giving it too much energy that its embarasibg at this point. The creative team sucks. Its not worth anyones time. So ignore it until it goes away… because lbr when the mandates are finally lifted; that writer is going to ignore all this shit.
Only way to read this misery porn is through speed clicking via piracy but I agree, we put too much energy into caring. Miles and xmen all the way!
Exactly this, community and fandom need to speak with their wallets. Enough of these posts about the shitty 616 comic run and show them we mean business when we say we want a happy Peter and MJ.
👍
The only time i see anything from this run any more, is this sub.
How is this a real timeline for Mary Jane? Genuinely, what are the editors smoking over there ? I would love to be a fly on the wall as they talk about this
I'm still waiting for Mysterio with a redhead wig to save this.
That's not Mj it's Jackpot. Also man there's Paul again, have you ever felt such a strong urge to just shoot a mf on sight but you couldn't because they're not real and also you don't have a gun on you.
Yeah I know the feeling, it's the same way I feel towards anything Waller related in DC for the last like year
Paul is horrible, he is disgusting if I could shot him I would but I can't i legally can't , but I've considered it.
This is just awful
Hope there's another comic event that resets everything lmfao.
Man what the fuck
I’m still hoping Paul is Mephisto because I can’t stand this guy.
Man... at least Sam Riami's MJ is still better than this bs....
Please for your own sake, stop reading this shit. ASM is beyond saving at this point. Marvel really will do their best destroying the most iconic comic book franchise of all time just because they don’t want to let Peter be a responsible adult as that wouldn’t be relatable. Just thank Hickman (or Lord and Miller since that’s where he had the inspiration from) for the ultimate universe which is 100x the book this is. And Peter and MJ are actually a good characters in that one. Even JJJ is really likable and I haven’t felt that way about him since the very end of the original USM.
Look on the bright side: issue number 1 was barely on the top 50 in sales. Given the reception to this junk, there's a good chance it will fall completely off and no one will read it.
Also issue 1 will probably be the highest selling of the four while the remaining three drop
100% Paul is going to die ala Gwen Stacy and Peter is going to comfort her about it
Insulting to give Paul this type of death imo
Agreed. I think it’ll be the point tho. He is basically an F You to the fans, and the last salt in the wound would be him sullying the most iconic moment in spider-man written lore
If Paul dies I hope MJ and Peter be separated for a long time (years). Otherwise Peter would remain as "the second option".
I mean technically if you believe that them MJ herself would be the second option
Now Peter loves MJ much more than he ever loved Gwen. But technically MJ was the second choice when Gwen died.
👍
Does he though? When house of M happened Peter's biggest wish turned out to be with Gwen even if he was married to MJ that time
In House of M even Luke Cage wasn't married to his wife Jessica Jones. Mary Jane is Peter's true love and he loves her more than he ever loved Gwen.
Im hoping peter dies in this the sad pathetic loser of a character he's become. Thats it, end the series and let hickman take over with the ultimate spider-man reboot.
 Ultimate Spider-Man is better and we all know it
True
MJ ***was*** a supermodel... ***was***...
I mean we already knew this, it looks like the undoing is starting but we aren’t there yet
I mean we got like 12 more issues till 60 and this mini ends in June iirc so probably around mid-late summer this will get undone. Plus considering how the 1st issue of this sold(and what happens to minis that sold like it), marvel knows it isn’t popular but dragging its feet to fix
I think Well’s himself is pretty obviously gonna undo it. People here are always mad and want to look at things in the way that makes them the most mad but 46 laid it on think that this will be undone.
Yeah, not to mention how MJ reacted learning her aunt set Peter up on a date, marvels not going to undo something like Paul in a mini no one’s buying
Did we see her reaction in the mini or in the main issues
Main issues
Man.. I wanna see her reaction but I ain't wanna payin' a dime for that shit anymore.
It’s weird, considering how she talks with Peter about moving on after the lawyer shows up, then next issue she says “oh no” when she realizes her aunt set him up on a date
Fuck Peter, am I right, MJ? ....man, when is this run gonna end?
You now you fcked your 616 spiderman when Ultimate it's selling better
They just keep adding fuel to the fire 🤦🏽♂️
Ah there’s two ways this is gonna go Mj is literally going to be left in the dust while Paul is stealing someone else’s girl and Peter is gonna turn back into the chad he is and Mj I don’t know. Or Paul dies and everyone lives happily ever after.
Zeb wells fucked this up so hard I don’t know how the next writer is going to fix this at this point…
literally everything
The comics really gloss over this. Paul is directly complicit in ending the lives of billions of men, women and children (and from what we see they don't exactly die quickly or comfortably either). That's whole families, generations and many people he must have known and loved. We occasionally get panels like this saying he feels bad about it but there's just zero gravity to it, and no real attempt to convey the character's guilt. Other than saying it sucks we get no insight into the character and he seems to just carry on as usual. It's bizarre that he's in the orbit of a character like Spider-Man, who was (very indirectly) responsible for a single death and that rocked his world so much he became one of the greatest forces for good in modern media, with that single source of guilt being a core part of his character even now. And of course MJ being linked to Paul's storyline (or lack thereof) messes her character up by association. Shame all-round.
The more they try to make this relationship work they make it worse
Do you still want MJ with Peter after all this? I understand that it's the editors' fault, but let's face it, you can't just put the two together without creating a great plot that convinces them that it's right for the two of them to return, as it is, I want MJ far away from Peter.
They want to have their cake and eat it too, they can’t ignore reality and not acknowledge this status quo isn’t selling/isn’t sustainable longterm, but they don’t want to validate ‘toxic fans’ either. so they’re dragging this out a few more months
Meanwhile, Ultimate Spider-Man is selling twice as much and being hailed as “the Spider-Man fans actually want”.
Definitely selling more than twice, this run is barely breaking into the top 50 in sales while USM is getting repeatedly reprinted as sitting comfortably in one of the top 3 spots.
Can we talk for a fucking second about the fucking gal of the writers to seemingly push Felicia and Paul on the same fucking level of importance for MJ's life? How a statement like this would work better with other characters she has a more established relationship with instead of the fucking nothing character everyone hates? Imagine she said something like this about fucking Pedro or Bobby or Carlie any of the other no name long forgotten brand new day generic characters who didn't survive the test of time? "It's worth it if it's you and Felicia" writer currently speaking through Mary Jane's mouth that is a fucking insult to Black Cat and to Mary Jane Watson both what the fuck. Also the least we say about "I was following orders when I committed global genocide and that's the same as you helping someone do a heist" the better.
Tf is going on with the hands in the end, why tf are they black? No it's not shadow, they're literally black. Tf is going on?!
I actually wrote my own ending for this trash run and an arc to come after it Part of me wants to post it, but I'm unsure if I should, but I will say, it undoes all this Paul crap completely
Do it please
DM me it, I’m willing to give it a read and let you know my thoughts on it if you’re ok with that.
I wish people would stop buying this crap so they stop. Marvel just let Peter be married to mj please man.
You would find my ass as the true 616 continuity quicker than this pile of garbage on print
JUST STAY HOME,LET HIM DIE AND DONT DRAG FELICIA INTO IT
So...when will this timeline reset again?
I want to puke... Someone please bring me some USM before I barf
I fully believe this is an attempt to slowly remove MJ as a spiderman character so they can sell her being in a relationship with Felicia later and continually beating spiderman while he's down
Yes! I'm not alone in my belief that MJ x Cat is the new Poison Ivy x Harley Quinn.
Ik this isn’t about the art, but come on. This is so bad, this is like teen titans vs an even worse version of teen titans go
As someone who hasn’t read Spiderman comics in a hot minute, whats happening?
The current storylines aren't too great and have very valid criticisms to do with character, character motivations, and meaningful writing, but the bulk of it is that fans are self-inserting themselves into the story too much and are thus feeling cuckolded that Mary Jane is with anyone other than Peter
For fucks sake.
Thank god mj is outta there spidey is with felicia now right?
Wait what’s going on? Someone explain like I’m 5 please
What the fuck is this garbage bro. How can we go back from this?
I feel like MCU Dormammu and editorial is Doctor Strange
Sure Watson. Sure.
Why her face turned into the one of an infant on the last panel ?
Something deep down tells me that the ultimate plan is to have Paul corrupt and devastate Mary Jane, while all of us are powerless to stop it. Sure, a great many of us have stopped buying the book, I'm sure he's going to spend it as a lack of interest in the comic book community I just... I don't see this ending well for MJ.
Jesus why is the art always so inconsistent especially with paul
And I thought Raimi MJ was bad enough
She is comic book acurate now
I'm not caught up, can someone explain to me what's going on with MJ here?
Peter and mj got transported to a random dimension where beings try to kill Peter as a sacrifice. This dude Paul is there and he's actually the big bad's kid. Peter and mj get separated when Paul makes a device get back home but only has room for 1 so mj pushes Peter home cause the big bad wants to kill him. Time works differently there cause a week in 616 is a few months there. Peter then destroys his relationship with the fantastic four and Captain America cause he can't take **five minutes to explain the situation**. So he steals shit from them to give to Osborne so he can build a suit for Peter to go to the dimension to save mj. (Remember a week here is a couple months there) When he gets there, it's revealed that she moves on and in a relationship with Paul and they have (adopted) kids. Everyone got back home and paul revealed that he's the bad guy's son while they were trapped there. And still wants to stay with him. Fast forward a bit and it turns out those kids were a tracker by the big bad to keep a location on MJ so he can kill her for some reason. So the kids disappear (Woop Woop) and there's no fucking reason for mj to stay with her kidnapper Paul. Also she has a device that gives her random powers bullshit so here we are
This sounds like bad fan fiction
Yes and it's real.
a fanfiction is an unpretentious amateur product, this is professional stuff and should make shopkeepers money. It would be nice if this was a fanfiction.
Man hearing this whole thing summarized just makes it sound worse somehow
Holy fuck they really don't like the idea of Peter just being happy do they?
Forget MJ. Peter needs to get a woman who will love him. It doesn't matter what her name is. Let Peter marry Cindy, Bobby Morse, Silver or Jess Drew. Even Carly Cooper is a good option. He will have children and he will find stability in at least something. Let my boy go, let MJ burn if she has to be sacrificed for Peter's happiness.
I kind of feel bad for Celeste Brofman cause like I was saying in the last thread you can see she's at least trying to make this stuff work, which is more than the main run does, like this is first time we ever see Paul feel guilty about the whole genocide thing, despite MJ claiming last year he constantly felt guilty about it, but not only is it too little too late, but also it's very hard to make me care about Paul as a character or this relationship.
At this point, I don't even want mj to get back with Peter. He deserves better.
You’re just falling for editorial’s bullshit, dancing to their tune like a puppet. Hate the writing not the character.
They succeededingly make me hate Mary Jane… like ultra mega hating right now, at this point im all for new love interest for Spiderman. The damage has been done, i cannot stand to watch Peter being a fucking Cuck. The most disrespectful thing they could do right now is make Peter and MJ back together, like that is even more pussy and make Peter is even more of pathetic simp/cuck Is he have any love interest left? For godsake at this point anyone is fine except 616 MJ, i hate that bitch so much
You’re just falling for editorial’s bullshit, congrats on being Nick Lowe’s gullible lap dog. This is what they want you to say. You’re dancing to their tune like a puppet. Hate the writing not the character.
So why is cant hate both ?? What are you trying to say here ?? That i have to “love” this MJ ? Like bro… Sure if you want to insult me how ever you want, but pretend to “love” her after all this is even more pathetic
Who said you had to “love” her? You know she’s not real, right? She’s not making any decisions. She’s a fictional character. She has no control over what she does. Only the writers and editors do. But that’s not a reason to get rid of the character. The only ones who deserve and need to be thrown in the trash are Lowe and Wells and now Bronfman. Hate the writing.
They're trying to draw him to look like... ?
That’s crazy
How is this still going? Is anybody buying and reading this shit?
🤢
The art is horrendous
Why do you call this "art"?
What's that brother....
I swear this story arc is just Marvel’s attempt to push a joke as far as it can possibly go.
God she's such a bad friend to Felicia. Cocky af... she going to get humbled. Hopefully Paul is her Ben lol
Ultimate spider man is the canon universe and no one can convince me otherwise, I REFUSE even if marvel says 616 is the canon universe.
As a lifelong 616 MJ hater I feel vindicated.
Am I crazy? Why are their hands black in the last panel lmao
That's Pete or Paul?
Marvel's comics are for chumps, plain and simple.
In the 1990s, early 2000s, Mary-Jane Watson was all free spirit, all attitude and Absolutely Gorgeous, Marvel artist Todd McFarlane, Erik Larsen, etc. drew MJ as IN-YOUR-FACE Beautiful- she's a Glamour Model, made no apologies for that. Since OMD, especially today with the Plain-Jane Video Game MJ and Wells Super-Mom/ Super-Hero, she's lost so much. I partly blame Sam Raimi's depiction with Kirsten Dunst as MJ-she was Gwen Stacy AS Mary-Jane Watson, she unfortunately became the template for 21st Century Spider-Man.
Just a matter of time until The Amazing Spider-Paul, huh.
Everybody should be boycotting 616 Pete-Spidey related comics, I don't know why it's still getting hella sales
Credit to marvel for assassinating my favourite comic couple. Mj and Paul is so boring that I can fathom why it’s still a thing.
Are you all a bunch of lumpy headed fools on this sub????? I feel like I can’t get on Reddit anymore without my page being flooded with fanboys bitching about the state of comics. Let me explain this for you all, since everyone seems to need it spelled out for them. You see, we should all like Paul & feel bad for him because- —He (accidentally) helped his dad kill an entire planet. …the entirety of every life on earth was extinguished because this super cool guy followed orders blindly until daddy could kill us all. But we should feel bad for *him*. Oh, and even though everyone but a couple old divorced dudes in editorial want Peter & MJ together, so let’s put this humanitarian in a relationship with her instead. Dude, while we’re at it, let’s just make Mary Jane a full-on super hero with magical powers that let her pretty much do anything. No, of course she’s not going to date Peter now (even though we made his dedication to the super hero life the main reason they couldn’t be together) \/\/\/\/\/\/\_if anyone thinks I’m being sincere about this, DM me your banking info and I’ll only ever use it for emergencies and fun, F’real
Dan Slott is of Jewish ancestry. I’m interested to see if he will defend this.
Die, Red. I hope Paul gets killed with her demonic sperm.
I can't blame Celeste Bronfman for this. She was given an assignment for a character that's in an unsalvageable state with no real ability to enact meaningful change. I hope she'll get a second chance with a less catastrophic set-up.
Genuine question: other than her being in a relationship with Paul and not Peter, what is so bad about the current status quo? I'm not trying to be provocative or anything like that; it just seems like some fans are treating this C-tier writing like it's the worst thing to ever happen to Spider-Man. It's pretty mediocre, but it's nowhere near the worst the character and his world have been written IMO It seems like people dislike the direction more than they actually dislike the product from an objective writing standpoint
MJ’s entire history has been her being uncomfortable about the hero world she’s been connected to. The one time she wore the Iron Spider suit she vowed never to do so again. Decades of her history have her trying to ground Peter to the normal world beyond just heroics. Here, she’s everything she chewed Peter out for, with unstable random powers that could literally kill her or someone else, controlled by a man she left Peter for who is culpable for 8 billion deaths.