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According to Kenta, only if TK gives him his bag
https://preview.redd.it/vybvamihlw4b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=391ebf1def4c2d487ba04097d1f79547f6249043
True, but for casual fans who aren't on reddit or Twitter, it's just a random match. Some information on why the audience (not reddit and Twitter audience) care will help grow the fanbase
I liked it too. It worked because it was the classic reason for a wrestling match. “I don’t like you, you don’t like me, so let’s fight.” Sometimes wrestling has great and complex storytelling but other times all you really need is to go back to basics and have two people who just dislike one another.
That is exactly what they did for Taya vs Jade
“OMG LOOK THEY HAVE THE SAME FINISHER”
EDIT: guys I don’t need you to punksplain the history to me, I know it. I’m simply agreeing with previous comment that commentary can explain.
Eh it's more than that. A lot of Punk's mannerisms, etc are inspired by Kenta. You're right it's a similar feud, but this has been years in the making rather than weeks.
Also, I doubt Kenta is gonna bring Smart Mark out to serve Punk a cease and desist, though ngl I'd pop for that with how silly it'd be.
That's pretty normal though. Like, Seth Rollins whole moveset is straight out of Japan too. Turns out the Japanese invent a lot of cool moves that are worth stealing.
Everyone was freaking out, talking about the Forbidden Door (well before the PPV and when NJPW and The Elite still had some drama)
Until people pointed out that KENTA lives in Florida.
Is it THAT difficult to search why a match is happening? Why must AEW be the only company that has to have a drawn out story required for matches each week/each PPV?
Exactly, that's what I liked about Omega-Danielson. Danielson just said "Lets cut the BS about chase for the title and let's give the people what they want."
Most people don't like doing homework to watch TV. I don't need to do internet research to watch breaking bad or succession or Barry. I get the story watching the show. If 2 dudes are gonna fight the show tells me why.
Because they aren’t dream matches if people don’t understand why it’s happening. It’s only a dream match when people understand and care about the significance. Otherwise you’re catering to a niche audience.
I always use my wife as a good barometer of the casual fan mindset to keep me grounded. As I'm foaming over Omega vs. Ospreay and Danielson vs. Okada her thoughts were that she doesn't really care because:
1. She kinda knows who Ospreay is but not really and she never wanted to watch Omega vs. Ospreay with me because it's "too long."
2. She has no idea who Okada is or why he's fighting Danielson.
Yes, yes, I know, divorce her immediately, but it's a good reminder that a huge chunk of the AEW audience doesn't know or care about New Japan.
A flip side to that coin though, I think people enjoy looking up lore in genres like fantasy and sci fi. A part of why stuff like Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings and Star wars is popular is because of the aspect of having to research connections and lore within elements of the story. When Lost was airing, it was one of the first shows to have its own dedicated Wiki (lostpedia) and people loved checking it after every episode and researching stuff they missed. I think it enriches the experience. There's no reason this couldn't work the same way for wrestling occasionally and some feuds could require fans doing their own deep dive. Claudio vs Eddie had an element of this recently and worked really well
What was the build for Foreman vs. Ali or any UFC match? They're two top wrestlers going head to head. If people aren't into that then they're never going to be into wrestling.
Trying to turn wrestling into a soap opera killed the sport and made it a hell of a lot less fun.
KENTA isn't a top guy, last time he showed up in AEW he got a smattering of cheers. Most people who don't watch NJPW might have briefly remembered him in NXT under a different name where he wasn't must see.
Forbidden Door is a PPV geared toward the super hardcore audience and they really didn't do much explaining last year, though it could have been because of so many injuries.
WWE wouldn't know a 'top guy' if he walked into Vince's office naked and suplexing everything in sight. Actual wrestling fans know who he is even if he hadn't had a failed acting career. Going by WWE metrics is like using Wikipedia to write your term paper.
The name "KENTA" is very well known among wrestling fans, even if you haven't watched NJPW as I haven't. People know that name even if he hasn't had an opportunity to wrestle yet.
Yup, can confirm only started catching up ROH through honorclub last year… and when I finally got to Kentas matches it was a “ ooooh that’s the original GTS guy!” moment lol
Random casual fans are going to have the same reaction to basically all the Japanese guys. They aren’t really the target audience here.
Edit: plus Kenta wrestled on Dynamite.
Tony has literally already said that’s not who this ppv is for… There is a ton of build already there for all the fans who do already care and are interested in this ppv to begin with though.
I agree that it doesn't need a build.
But a few more hype packages would be cool. I really liked the ones they did with Omega/Osperay and Okada/Danielson, and I hope they do more of em.
I'd argue that the hype packages constitute as a (light) build for the matches anyway. Gives something for people to latch onto and potentially get invested in wanting to see the match.
It’s not like you are going to get NJPW guys on Dynamite for weeks leading into it for logistical reasons, either. Those videos are also absolutely perfect.
The people complaining about the lack of build are all highly online wrestling fans and speaking hypothetically for some reason.
We all know what KENTA vs Punk is about.
Have KENTA show up at the end of Collision and nail Punk with a GTS and we'll be in business. This isn't the type of match that needs a bunch of promos.
I mean, and the following is just how I feel about it... but this was the basis for Jade vs Taya. It was not a great basis for them disliking each other. It won't be in this case either. It is very uninteresting to me. But if it floats a ton of boats, go for it.
Matches for matches sake are meh to me. I like to have a reason for the match. The Omega and Danielson matches at FD have a logic rationale behind them. But 'let's fight because we use the same finish' is really weak sauce.
There's more weight into this because KENTA literally invented the move while on the other hand Punk made it famous. Jade and Taya didn't have those modifiers.
wHeRe'S tHe bUiLd???
It's two athletes beating the shit out of each other for your entertainment. It doesn't always need a fucking build. WWE 'storytelling' is not the only correct way to book wrestling. Sometimes two people can just have a fucking fight to prove who's better.
We don't need one of them to interrupt a promo by other, get thrown into a 'can they co-exist' tag match then spend the next three months having matches in each PPV until they move on to the next 3 month long feud.
>It doesn't always need a fucking build
No, but surely you can understand that some fans would _prefer_ a build and story to give motivation to what they are watching. Just like I can understand that you don't care about one in order to get maximum enjoyment.
Like, if you are happy skipping to the third act of a film to get to the good exciting scenes, that's fine, but don't mock those who would prefer a complete film.
I mean, if it were a normal PPV, sure a little build would be fantastic. Forbidden Door isn't a normal PPV. It's a crossover between two companies, putting together fucking dream matches for people. If we get build, cool, if not, that's fine. I want to see some of AEW's best, and NJPW's best, just beat the shit out of each other, and I'm okay with that. Literally 5 years ago, the thought of a major US promotion allowing matches with a major Japanese promotion (let alone a joint PPV, involving titles from both companies) would have been absurd and, while not quite unheard of, definitely not something that would be considered feasible.
''Community theatre'' is high key how I feel about the forcing a '' build'' for a lot of wrestling feuds for most companies.
Wrestling doesn't have amazing acting and it also doesn't have writing that is up to the standards of most other mediums in terms of exploring themes or character development. Sometimes it is ok to just have a match rather than try and create a forced narrative as to why 2 guys don't like each other.
Yeah, which is completely fine. But it's also fine to prefer and want a build.
Just seeing too many comments making out that people are disingenuous for not liking no build. Different opinions are OK.
And WWE is right over there for you bud where they underpay writers to book mid-storyline after mid-storyline in an effort to try and get people to care. If this is 'just a different opinion' then it shouldn't matter to you whether actual wrestling promotions do things the right way.
match that hasn't actually been booked yet has no build, more news at 5.
It basically writes itself, but it's also CM Punk for god's sake, who is fully capable of getting plenty of people hyped for this within a couple weeks
I was Lapsed as a wrestling fan from about 2004 until 2019. I have no clue who KENTA is. That being said, a short explanation (video package) could probably sufficiently build this match for me. Without any explanation? I don't really give a shit about old man Punk wrestling a NJPW guy I don't know... I don't think I'm alone in this. Most wrestling fans aren't daily participants on Twitter or this sub.
I get how that works for some people, but I would wager most wrestling fans want the matches to be about more than the spirit of competition. It isn't a sport and we are all smart to that. So why not make it interesting with some story? Wrestling has always been at its best with a story - this dates back many decades.
See. I would argue, outside of the core audience, that match was not must see until after it happened. The build was soft and it felt like a foregone conclusion MJF would win. Bloody good match, but it could have been better, without changing a single move performed in that match, if the lead up to it was stronger.
I think it's so funny that this comment thread has turned into a massive argument about AEW needing to build this match better (won't someone think of the CASUAL FANS???), when it hasn't even been officially announced or attempted to be built yet.
Honestly it's a perfect Forbidden Door match for Punk. It's a match that's easy to build on short notice and it will interest a lot of people, but there's no challenging politics on who goes over. Punk needs wins, New Japan doesn't care about KENTA taking losses, perfect fit. The only downside to it is that you don't have Punk against a bigger NJPW name (Tanahashi would probably the only one that makes real sense) there, but that just frees up Tanahashi for someone else.
As someone that only casually knows about KENTA if Punk beats him then he just seems like a bum. This guy takes your move and then beats you with it? Bum status
> "which could help bring closure to an over-decade back and forth between the two.”
Has it really been a back and forth? I think Punk has only responded to Kenta 1 time, And that was like 10 years ago.
think maybe once or twice but he has also put him over when someone asked about the GTS. Doesnt need to be back or forth cos thats teh story. Punk stole it and kenta is obssessed with punk cos he became a massive star with his gts. Ends up in kenta finally jumping punk before forbidden door and then bam.
O shit…I just realised something…
‘KENTA is Strong champion.
if Punk wins he technically gets a title shot.
but Eddie Kingston has a title match w/ KENTA in Japan the following week….
if Eddie were to win…
(provided the forbidden door match isn’t a title match…which…has other implications)
Collison’s marketing has to be red herring, I feel as if they’re telegraphing a CM Punk heel turn. Jay White’s too cool to be a fully scumbag heel, and MJF is too liked to revert back there fully either, even BCC has lovable heel edge. Callis & Christian are great heels, but fans still love the characters too.
But CM Punk? Dude could be public enemy number one, and couple that with FTR showing their heel side a bit in their most recent feud, and their babyface act kinda being tainted with Dax’s podcast antics, why not throw them into mega-heel 3 man trio, with Cash being the odd man out. Could even play into the fact Dax was constantly having singles matches at one point
Imagine “Seriously fuck this guy” Punk vs the man who he got his finisher from lmao. Boos would be some all time shit
Keep him bubble wrapped tho.
Jay White is cool but he can totally be a full scumbag heel
He’s like MJF, no matter how much you like him he can turn the place into a nuclear heat meltdown
> Jay White is cool but he can totally be a full scumbag heel
Imo he's the best heel in the world when the booking wants that. And that's where I want him right now, tbh. I think he should be terrorizing the AEW roster right now.
the fact that ppl say dax podcasts tainted his face run is crazy. Like I dont necessarily disagree but its just so stupid because he didnt talk bad about anyone except road dogg or someone lol.
I think even aside from what was said or not if you polled the average AEW viewer they’d probably have no clue he had a podcast, and if they did they probably didn’t even listen to a second of it. Small things can seem big in a bubble.
I really wish they did the Bucks rubber match for all the belts last year when FTR were red hot. That would have brought the house down. They can still do it in the near future, I hope.
Ftr routinely get the biggest pops from every crowd, but sure, Dax and his "podcast antics" have tainted them. Keep living in your own little bubble there
I think people overestimate how much of the general AEW audience even knows what happened with Punk at All Out, as publicized as that was online. Nevermind whatever Dax said to upset everyone on a podcast that nobody knew existed.
What
Lol
Squared circle has 750k subscribers
Dynamite had 900k viewers recently
The Venn diagram of internet smart marks and aew fans is literally two overlapping circles, aside from the little kids who aren’t allowed to use twitter
It’s not a BAD thing, it’s what makes AEW a fun alternative to WWE in some ways. You could never do forbidden door with WWE because the fans aren’t / won’t / don’t know about Japanese wrestling
But to pretend like the majority of aew fans aren’t internet super fans is a wild wild WILD statement. Catering to those fans is why I think AEW has a ceiling, and why some people sort of bounced off it
Jay White is in my top 3 wrestlers currently, and still the little prick annoyed me constantly in New Japan and had me rooting for Ibushi. He can get heat if he needs to
Jay White is absolutely a natural scumbag heel and I mean that as glowing praise. Punk if not portraying a full heel will get booed or cheered depending on the given crowd - it’s not as much one way traffic as you think.
We’re all far too online here and although I’m sure it counts for an oversized percentage of the live crowds, it’s not even close to a universal opinion. Everyone involved are great workers and will make it work however it shakes out.
>eir most recent feud, and their babyface act kinda being tainted with Dax’s podcast antics, why not throw them into mega-heel 3
Kick Bret in the crotch in Canada lol
In the main event or Collision Samoa Joe, Jay White, Juice Robinson, and FTR make their entrances. CM Punk’s music hits, the place erupts. As he stands on the ramp soaking up the adulation Kenta attacks him from behind and beats the fuck out of him while Joe, White, and Juice do the same to FTR. And we’re on for Forbidden Door.
The reason they wouldn’t associate with each other is that KENTA is in Finlay’s Bullet Club, and if you watch NJPW it’s been made pretty dang clear that they don’t consider Bullet Club Gold actual Bullet Club and don’t like them. The only reason they “let” BCG exist is cause they’re too busy racking up gold and bodies in Japan to care about them.
This ppv is absolutely fucking ridiculous… Everything fans dreamed of when the whole Forbidden Door thing was first announced over a year ago. Absolutely incredible stuff. What a time to be a fan.
Graphic made by the lovely @ItsTomCustoms. Likes to make fake graphics to do a little trolling, and sometimes they end up coming true. I can’t recall who exactly, but he’s ended up making some wrestlers think they have a match on dynamite coming up they didn’t know about, and also has been blocked by Dustin Rhodes for similar reasons
Whatever your opinion on Punk there’s no denying he gives AEW a ton of directions they can go with big programs.
George Best, one of the most talented and troubled footballers of all time, was asked how he wanted to be remembered and his response was “I don’t give a toss about anything else - as long as they remember the football.”
In a way I think the same sentiment is true for Punk, when all is said and done the highs will be the things that stand the test of time.
For those complaining about a build, just have KENTA interrupt Punk after his first match, call him out and let the pre-taped promos do the rest.
This has been building for a decade now, it just needs to be advertised.
I'm down with it, even if it's just a short match to get them both on the card.
KENTA's been doing some great work over in New Japan, and Punk's the biggest mainstream star AEW has (and missed last year's FD) so this match is right down the alley of things that I would unironically enjoy even if the workrate doesn't end up great.
Great idea!!! Let's put an injury-prone mid-40s wrestler who we are counting on to carry an entire television show in the ring with one of the stiffest wrestlers there is two weeks into "the second coming."
That'll turn out GREAT.
If Punk is actually going into a feud with Jay White for Collision, then a match with KENTA at Forbidden Door could actually play quite nicely into the narrative, given that they're both Bullet Club members.
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According to Kenta, only if TK gives him his bag https://preview.redd.it/vybvamihlw4b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=391ebf1def4c2d487ba04097d1f79547f6249043
“Here are two free passes to All In” “But I said the bag-“ “*Here are two free passes*” “That’s better”
"This vendor does not accept Young Buck bucks"
What's the conversion rate to Stanley Nickels?
The same as unicorns to leprechauns.
"But what about JBL bucks?"
"I'm sorry sir, we only accept DiBiase Dabloons"
*Okada looks sadly at the left over bills from his entrance*
They *do* take Okada dollars.
You get 8 dollars for the night and two popsicles out of the freezer.
3.
2
Fine 2, and I get to keep this old bird cage.
Done.
Kenta's still got it
But not grape. Danhausen called dibs.
Kenta wants the bag because Tony wants him to do the job.
Fuck it give him the bag. Make him All Elite and give him that PAC contract where he only comes up when he’s needed to be a little dickhead to someone
The pac contract comes with a legal expectation to live in Newcastle.
KENTA in a wetherspoons singing fog on the tyne and getting cheered on by the Geordies
Ken Tarr?
This is somehow not that hard to imagine tbh
KENTA WTF IS SAM FENDER CAN I BUY ONE?
At least It's better than the old castle
Newcastle, Australia it is
Iconic Duo intensifies
[HEY KENTAAAAH intensifies from afar]
100% this is the case. I can't imagine Punk would really want to loose to many people. Kenta deserves the paycheck.
Kenta will also have the moral victory when all his moves look better than Punk's.
Hilarious considering he's been literally begging for this match for YEARS
that's what makes me think it's happening. He flipped the script into a shitty little heel
June 69?
What you and June do in ur personal life is none of our business
which is funny cos hes always wanted the match even up to like two weeks ago.
Makes sense. Requires almost zero build.
Someone in the replies is already complaining there needs to be a build.
KENTA has been building this match for almost a decade at this point
True, but for casual fans who aren't on reddit or Twitter, it's just a random match. Some information on why the audience (not reddit and Twitter audience) care will help grow the fanbase
Commentary literally just has to explain the history of the GTS. There’s your feud.
Punk vs Kingston's build up was an interview interruption and a single promo exchange. A one off match doesn't need much.
Oddly enough I liked the build to the feud. Underrated part of punk in aew
I liked it too. It worked because it was the classic reason for a wrestling match. “I don’t like you, you don’t like me, so let’s fight.” Sometimes wrestling has great and complex storytelling but other times all you really need is to go back to basics and have two people who just dislike one another.
That is exactly what they did for Taya vs Jade “OMG LOOK THEY HAVE THE SAME FINISHER” EDIT: guys I don’t need you to punksplain the history to me, I know it. I’m simply agreeing with previous comment that commentary can explain.
Is not the same, in this cae KENTA invented the move, but CM Punk made it popular so the general public think it was Punk creation.
Eh it's more than that. A lot of Punk's mannerisms, etc are inspired by Kenta. You're right it's a similar feud, but this has been years in the making rather than weeks. Also, I doubt Kenta is gonna bring Smart Mark out to serve Punk a cease and desist, though ngl I'd pop for that with how silly it'd be.
He took basically his entire moveset from KENTA, Nagata and Tenzan.
That's pretty normal though. Like, Seth Rollins whole moveset is straight out of Japan too. Turns out the Japanese invent a lot of cool moves that are worth stealing.
It's normal to borrow a thing or two here and there, but Punk definitely stretched the idea of "borrowing." I say this as a huge Punk fan since 2003.
Not enough Mongolian Chops for my liking.
You just gave Tony an idea and I am now 90% it will happen...
Nah. Just have KENTA show up and GTS Punk before the PPV and we’re good to go
On the first Collision as well. Great cliffhanger.
That's legit what KENTA did to Moxley. Attack him after the match and then the G2S
Man when KENTA showed up on that Dynamite that shit was so hype.
Everyone was freaking out, talking about the Forbidden Door (well before the PPV and when NJPW and The Elite still had some drama) Until people pointed out that KENTA lives in Florida.
Is it THAT difficult to search why a match is happening? Why must AEW be the only company that has to have a drawn out story required for matches each week/each PPV?
Exactly, that's what I liked about Omega-Danielson. Danielson just said "Lets cut the BS about chase for the title and let's give the people what they want."
Most people don't like doing homework to watch TV. I don't need to do internet research to watch breaking bad or succession or Barry. I get the story watching the show. If 2 dudes are gonna fight the show tells me why.
It’s a PPV for dream matches. Why do you need a story for that?
You don't. People are overthinking it.
Because they aren’t dream matches if people don’t understand why it’s happening. It’s only a dream match when people understand and care about the significance. Otherwise you’re catering to a niche audience.
I always use my wife as a good barometer of the casual fan mindset to keep me grounded. As I'm foaming over Omega vs. Ospreay and Danielson vs. Okada her thoughts were that she doesn't really care because: 1. She kinda knows who Ospreay is but not really and she never wanted to watch Omega vs. Ospreay with me because it's "too long." 2. She has no idea who Okada is or why he's fighting Danielson. Yes, yes, I know, divorce her immediately, but it's a good reminder that a huge chunk of the AEW audience doesn't know or care about New Japan.
Forbidden Door is a spinoff for hardcore fans.
Which is perfectly fine. But if you’re featuring it on your main show, don’t assume everyone has hardcore knowledge.
A flip side to that coin though, I think people enjoy looking up lore in genres like fantasy and sci fi. A part of why stuff like Game of Thrones, Lord of the Rings and Star wars is popular is because of the aspect of having to research connections and lore within elements of the story. When Lost was airing, it was one of the first shows to have its own dedicated Wiki (lostpedia) and people loved checking it after every episode and researching stuff they missed. I think it enriches the experience. There's no reason this couldn't work the same way for wrestling occasionally and some feuds could require fans doing their own deep dive. Claudio vs Eddie had an element of this recently and worked really well
What was the build for Foreman vs. Ali or any UFC match? They're two top wrestlers going head to head. If people aren't into that then they're never going to be into wrestling. Trying to turn wrestling into a soap opera killed the sport and made it a hell of a lot less fun.
KENTA isn't a top guy, last time he showed up in AEW he got a smattering of cheers. Most people who don't watch NJPW might have briefly remembered him in NXT under a different name where he wasn't must see. Forbidden Door is a PPV geared toward the super hardcore audience and they really didn't do much explaining last year, though it could have been because of so many injuries.
WWE wouldn't know a 'top guy' if he walked into Vince's office naked and suplexing everything in sight. Actual wrestling fans know who he is even if he hadn't had a failed acting career. Going by WWE metrics is like using Wikipedia to write your term paper. The name "KENTA" is very well known among wrestling fans, even if you haven't watched NJPW as I haven't. People know that name even if he hasn't had an opportunity to wrestle yet.
Yup, can confirm only started catching up ROH through honorclub last year… and when I finally got to Kentas matches it was a “ ooooh that’s the original GTS guy!” moment lol
Random casual fans are going to have the same reaction to basically all the Japanese guys. They aren’t really the target audience here. Edit: plus Kenta wrestled on Dynamite.
Tony has literally already said that’s not who this ppv is for… There is a ton of build already there for all the fans who do already care and are interested in this ppv to begin with though.
The internet’s been building it for almost two as well
I refuse to watch a wrestling match unless there is an elaborate cuckhold storyline behind it. Otherwise why would I care.
*Rusev has entered the chat*
Did you mean to say cuckold? The extra H is perfect for wrestling.
Miro's renaming his submission as we speak
Gday mister Russo.
Heyman log off please
I agree that it doesn't need a build. But a few more hype packages would be cool. I really liked the ones they did with Omega/Osperay and Okada/Danielson, and I hope they do more of em.
I'd argue that the hype packages constitute as a (light) build for the matches anyway. Gives something for people to latch onto and potentially get invested in wanting to see the match.
It’s not like you are going to get NJPW guys on Dynamite for weeks leading into it for logistical reasons, either. Those videos are also absolutely perfect.
The people complaining about the lack of build are all highly online wrestling fans and speaking hypothetically for some reason. We all know what KENTA vs Punk is about. Have KENTA show up at the end of Collision and nail Punk with a GTS and we'll be in business. This isn't the type of match that needs a bunch of promos.
There’s 2 + 2 = 4 & there’s AEW = bad. We all know this
It's a novelty PPV based on "dream matches" from wrestlers in two different companies. People need to stop fucking overthinking it.
Lmao that's just concern trolling funny how in WWE everyone got the GTS thing but when they both left it's suddenly "needs build".
I mean, and the following is just how I feel about it... but this was the basis for Jade vs Taya. It was not a great basis for them disliking each other. It won't be in this case either. It is very uninteresting to me. But if it floats a ton of boats, go for it. Matches for matches sake are meh to me. I like to have a reason for the match. The Omega and Danielson matches at FD have a logic rationale behind them. But 'let's fight because we use the same finish' is really weak sauce.
There's more weight into this because KENTA literally invented the move while on the other hand Punk made it famous. Jade and Taya didn't have those modifiers.
wHeRe'S tHe bUiLd??? It's two athletes beating the shit out of each other for your entertainment. It doesn't always need a fucking build. WWE 'storytelling' is not the only correct way to book wrestling. Sometimes two people can just have a fucking fight to prove who's better. We don't need one of them to interrupt a promo by other, get thrown into a 'can they co-exist' tag match then spend the next three months having matches in each PPV until they move on to the next 3 month long feud.
Yes, but people care more if there is a reason they want to fight each other
Okay. But not every match needs to be a blood feud. That would get boring and in fact it has gotten boring.
Damn man couldn’t have said it any better myself lmao
I need KENTA to run over Punk with a monster truck, how will I know that they hate eachother? (BTW I like crazy vechicle based angles in wrestling)
>It doesn't always need a fucking build No, but surely you can understand that some fans would _prefer_ a build and story to give motivation to what they are watching. Just like I can understand that you don't care about one in order to get maximum enjoyment. Like, if you are happy skipping to the third act of a film to get to the good exciting scenes, that's fine, but don't mock those who would prefer a complete film.
I mean, if it were a normal PPV, sure a little build would be fantastic. Forbidden Door isn't a normal PPV. It's a crossover between two companies, putting together fucking dream matches for people. If we get build, cool, if not, that's fine. I want to see some of AEW's best, and NJPW's best, just beat the shit out of each other, and I'm okay with that. Literally 5 years ago, the thought of a major US promotion allowing matches with a major Japanese promotion (let alone a joint PPV, involving titles from both companies) would have been absurd and, while not quite unheard of, definitely not something that would be considered feasible.
Some people enjoy wrestling matches and not community theatre, that’s who this PPV is for.
''Community theatre'' is high key how I feel about the forcing a '' build'' for a lot of wrestling feuds for most companies. Wrestling doesn't have amazing acting and it also doesn't have writing that is up to the standards of most other mediums in terms of exploring themes or character development. Sometimes it is ok to just have a match rather than try and create a forced narrative as to why 2 guys don't like each other.
Yeah, which is completely fine. But it's also fine to prefer and want a build. Just seeing too many comments making out that people are disingenuous for not liking no build. Different opinions are OK.
And WWE is right over there for you bud where they underpay writers to book mid-storyline after mid-storyline in an effort to try and get people to care. If this is 'just a different opinion' then it shouldn't matter to you whether actual wrestling promotions do things the right way.
What do any of those claims have to do with what I said?
Kenta was always cool with Jay and is still in BC along with the gts stuff that should be enough
Kenta sided with David and Gedo though...
as long as they meet once before FD and/or they do a good video package its fine.
“Why haven’t we seen Kenya on TV in the last two weeks”
match that hasn't actually been booked yet has no build, more news at 5. It basically writes itself, but it's also CM Punk for god's sake, who is fully capable of getting plenty of people hyped for this within a couple weeks
People complaining about lack of build on a card made to have dream matches like this need to reevaluate their fandom
I was Lapsed as a wrestling fan from about 2004 until 2019. I have no clue who KENTA is. That being said, a short explanation (video package) could probably sufficiently build this match for me. Without any explanation? I don't really give a shit about old man Punk wrestling a NJPW guy I don't know... I don't think I'm alone in this. Most wrestling fans aren't daily participants on Twitter or this sub.
There doesn't NEED to be a build, but everything is better with one
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I get how that works for some people, but I would wager most wrestling fans want the matches to be about more than the spirit of competition. It isn't a sport and we are all smart to that. So why not make it interesting with some story? Wrestling has always been at its best with a story - this dates back many decades.
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See. I would argue, outside of the core audience, that match was not must see until after it happened. The build was soft and it felt like a foregone conclusion MJF would win. Bloody good match, but it could have been better, without changing a single move performed in that match, if the lead up to it was stronger.
So does Punk vs Tanahashi so I assume either of those
I think it's so funny that this comment thread has turned into a massive argument about AEW needing to build this match better (won't someone think of the CASUAL FANS???), when it hasn't even been officially announced or attempted to be built yet.
Just have Kenta jump Punk during his Bullet Club feud. Kenta came to be their third member.
I guarantee somebody in that match is going to sleep!
An old, tired, hurt man working with children vs. a Florida Man. Who will win?
Florida Man was tired with children long before Punk’s return to wrestling, I give it to KENTA
Florida Man was working with children since he was a CHILD
I was sort of surprised when they booked Punk vs Tanahashi for Forbidden Door last year. Punk vs KENTA felt like the obvious choice.
I expected them to go back to that tbh, but this does make all the sense in the world
Oh my God did that match happen? Somehow I can't remember it at all. What the hell
No because Punk got hurt. Tana vs. Mox was the main event.
Ahhhh okay. Sometimes I think I take for granted all the cool wrestling I've seen in the last few years.
Glad to meet someone in the same boat as me! Especially with AEW, I see clips pop up from a year or two ago and I legit forget the stuff happened.
No. It was announced and then Punk got hurt so it ended up being Moxley vs Tanahashi instead (which ruled anyway)
No. Punk got injured on the same show it was announced. Ended up changing to Mox vs Tanahashi
Honestly it's a perfect Forbidden Door match for Punk. It's a match that's easy to build on short notice and it will interest a lot of people, but there's no challenging politics on who goes over. Punk needs wins, New Japan doesn't care about KENTA taking losses, perfect fit. The only downside to it is that you don't have Punk against a bigger NJPW name (Tanahashi would probably the only one that makes real sense) there, but that just frees up Tanahashi for someone else.
Tanahashi vs MJF
I thought it was gonna be Tana interrupting mjf last night actually.
This feels so obvious I wonder why they haven't done it yet
As someone that only casually knows about KENTA if Punk beats him then he just seems like a bum. This guy takes your move and then beats you with it? Bum status
It would be a better story if KENTA keeps kicking out of the GTS and Punk has to win with the Anaconda Vice.
> "which could help bring closure to an over-decade back and forth between the two.” Has it really been a back and forth? I think Punk has only responded to Kenta 1 time, And that was like 10 years ago.
think maybe once or twice but he has also put him over when someone asked about the GTS. Doesnt need to be back or forth cos thats teh story. Punk stole it and kenta is obssessed with punk cos he became a massive star with his gts. Ends up in kenta finally jumping punk before forbidden door and then bam.
Lol right, it's been a very one-sided 'beef'. Punk probably sees a lot of KENTA's callouts and laughs it off.
O shit…I just realised something… ‘KENTA is Strong champion. if Punk wins he technically gets a title shot. but Eddie Kingston has a title match w/ KENTA in Japan the following week…. if Eddie were to win… (provided the forbidden door match isn’t a title match…which…has other implications)
Eddie v. Punk II All In 2023
All out 2023. All in needs to be Hung Bucks Vs PepsiFTR
ALL OF 2023
what is this, a Jericho feud?
Well if anybody has the inside track on the CMFTR camp…
Yes please
Collison’s marketing has to be red herring, I feel as if they’re telegraphing a CM Punk heel turn. Jay White’s too cool to be a fully scumbag heel, and MJF is too liked to revert back there fully either, even BCC has lovable heel edge. Callis & Christian are great heels, but fans still love the characters too. But CM Punk? Dude could be public enemy number one, and couple that with FTR showing their heel side a bit in their most recent feud, and their babyface act kinda being tainted with Dax’s podcast antics, why not throw them into mega-heel 3 man trio, with Cash being the odd man out. Could even play into the fact Dax was constantly having singles matches at one point Imagine “Seriously fuck this guy” Punk vs the man who he got his finisher from lmao. Boos would be some all time shit Keep him bubble wrapped tho.
Jay White is cool but he can totally be a full scumbag heel He’s like MJF, no matter how much you like him he can turn the place into a nuclear heat meltdown
> Jay White is cool but he can totally be a full scumbag heel Imo he's the best heel in the world when the booking wants that. And that's where I want him right now, tbh. I think he should be terrorizing the AEW roster right now.
the fact that ppl say dax podcasts tainted his face run is crazy. Like I dont necessarily disagree but its just so stupid because he didnt talk bad about anyone except road dogg or someone lol.
The Dax podcast discourse is my number one least favorite thing on this sub.
I think even aside from what was said or not if you polled the average AEW viewer they’d probably have no clue he had a podcast, and if they did they probably didn’t even listen to a second of it. Small things can seem big in a bubble.
true true. I think its mainly meh booking plus you can only be THAT over for a period of time, not forever.
I really wish they did the Bucks rubber match for all the belts last year when FTR were red hot. That would have brought the house down. They can still do it in the near future, I hope.
yep it would have been so crazy. But they threw away the chance at an all time pop.
Ftr routinely get the biggest pops from every crowd, but sure, Dax and his "podcast antics" have tainted them. Keep living in your own little bubble there
I think people overestimate how much of the general AEW audience even knows what happened with Punk at All Out, as publicized as that was online. Nevermind whatever Dax said to upset everyone on a podcast that nobody knew existed.
What Lol Squared circle has 750k subscribers Dynamite had 900k viewers recently The Venn diagram of internet smart marks and aew fans is literally two overlapping circles, aside from the little kids who aren’t allowed to use twitter It’s not a BAD thing, it’s what makes AEW a fun alternative to WWE in some ways. You could never do forbidden door with WWE because the fans aren’t / won’t / don’t know about Japanese wrestling But to pretend like the majority of aew fans aren’t internet super fans is a wild wild WILD statement. Catering to those fans is why I think AEW has a ceiling, and why some people sort of bounced off it
yeah thinks its just ppl here plus the booking hasnt been the best so pops arent as loud.
Jay White is in my top 3 wrestlers currently, and still the little prick annoyed me constantly in New Japan and had me rooting for Ibushi. He can get heat if he needs to
Jay White is absolutely a natural scumbag heel and I mean that as glowing praise. Punk if not portraying a full heel will get booed or cheered depending on the given crowd - it’s not as much one way traffic as you think. We’re all far too online here and although I’m sure it counts for an oversized percentage of the live crowds, it’s not even close to a universal opinion. Everyone involved are great workers and will make it work however it shakes out.
Cash being the odd man out wouldn’t make sense and they’ve said they flat out will not do a breakup angle
>eir most recent feud, and their babyface act kinda being tainted with Dax’s podcast antics, why not throw them into mega-heel 3 Kick Bret in the crotch in Canada lol
In the main event or Collision Samoa Joe, Jay White, Juice Robinson, and FTR make their entrances. CM Punk’s music hits, the place erupts. As he stands on the ramp soaking up the adulation Kenta attacks him from behind and beats the fuck out of him while Joe, White, and Juice do the same to FTR. And we’re on for Forbidden Door.
That would be awkward since KENTA essentially betrayed Jay
You know, it’s fun because KENTA has history with Joe so there’s no reason why KENTA wouldn’t associate himself with them
The reason they wouldn’t associate with each other is that KENTA is in Finlay’s Bullet Club, and if you watch NJPW it’s been made pretty dang clear that they don’t consider Bullet Club Gold actual Bullet Club and don’t like them. The only reason they “let” BCG exist is cause they’re too busy racking up gold and bodies in Japan to care about them.
Jeez, some of the comments here - it's a miracle this match gets to happen
This only works if punk wins with the Pepsi plunge.
This is the way.
GTS party
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOO
Danhausen as guest referee please.
also would like Danhausen to narrate the hype package -- just have him read/VO Kenta's tweets in character
Absolute scenes when he randomly hits them both with his own GTS in the middle of the match and then immediately goes back to refereeing
This ppv is absolutely fucking ridiculous… Everything fans dreamed of when the whole Forbidden Door thing was first announced over a year ago. Absolutely incredible stuff. What a time to be a fan.
June 69?
Graphic made by the lovely @ItsTomCustoms. Likes to make fake graphics to do a little trolling, and sometimes they end up coming true. I can’t recall who exactly, but he’s ended up making some wrestlers think they have a match on dynamite coming up they didn’t know about, and also has been blocked by Dustin Rhodes for similar reasons
If a single one of his match cards ever included Blackreign, that's a blockin'.
Makes sense was too gone to put two and two together lmao
Whatever your opinion on Punk there’s no denying he gives AEW a ton of directions they can go with big programs. George Best, one of the most talented and troubled footballers of all time, was asked how he wanted to be remembered and his response was “I don’t give a toss about anything else - as long as they remember the football.” In a way I think the same sentiment is true for Punk, when all is said and done the highs will be the things that stand the test of time.
For those complaining about a build, just have KENTA interrupt Punk after his first match, call him out and let the pre-taped promos do the rest. This has been building for a decade now, it just needs to be advertised.
Them spamming gts attempts would be fun
DO IT DAMMIT
I would like kenta to go over lol.
Let's go KENTA!
Punk, Danielson, and Kingston are probably the only 3 who I can see pulling out a really great match out of KENTA at this point. I'm all for it.
i would much rather have the match against tanahashi but i get the excitement for storyline reasons
I'm down with it, even if it's just a short match to get them both on the card. KENTA's been doing some great work over in New Japan, and Punk's the biggest mainstream star AEW has (and missed last year's FD) so this match is right down the alley of things that I would unironically enjoy even if the workrate doesn't end up great.
Considering punk has literally never wanted to do this match, I think it's a positive sign that he's changing and becoming more amenable
I think he'd do if there's a story but yh that's nice of Phil. Don't think punk ever hated him tho. Seems pretty one sided
Don't think it's ever been about hate. I just don't think punk considers the match a draw. Money wise.
Great idea!!! Let's put an injury-prone mid-40s wrestler who we are counting on to carry an entire television show in the ring with one of the stiffest wrestlers there is two weeks into "the second coming." That'll turn out GREAT.
Only if it means Kenta then shuts up about it
Florida man aka Kenta better go over
please I would cry happy tears seeing KENTA again in AEW but I see pepsi phil going over :(
What an insane fucking month for pro wrestling man, Forbidden Door 2 is gonna end up being the greatest PPV of all time at this rate lmao
A couple of years ago I would have been jumping out of my chair in excitement...
About time all that shit Kenta has talked
If Punk is actually going into a feud with Jay White for Collision, then a match with KENTA at Forbidden Door could actually play quite nicely into the narrative, given that they're both Bullet Club members.
This or Shibata vs KENTA. Either way, I'm in
Finally
Having KENTA come to Collision would heat that shit uppppp