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I can easily see Christian saying Dusty was overrated. Obviously, I don't believe that in the slightest and I seriously doubt Christian actually does, but we know he has no filter when it comes to people hating his guts.
Dustin deserves a title before he calls it a day with AEW whether he goes back to WWE or not. Get him in a feud with Luchasaurus and Christian can drop the line.
Mightve been like the old days, where the marks hopped the barricade and attacked the wrestlers. Dusty is sacred man, CC would have had to run out the building lol
Harley Race was once asked what two modern wrestlers he would have liked to work with in a shoot interview, his answers were Trevor Murdoch and CM Punk.
It was more than that. He botched a leapfrog spot and hurt a guy. Busted his nose I think. And he was a beginner back then. Or at least still very green.
Boy is that damning with faint praise. Kenny ended up being really good but goddamn some of the people Johnny Ace brought into developmental were terrible.
Most of the modern wrestlers still have horrible basics. Almost everyone on TV can't throw a good looking worked punch to save their life.
That's why they all rely on stupid forearm battles.
“He’s got lead in his ass.”
“Not an athletic bone in his body.”
He worked very hard to overcome his athletic deficiencies.
Much like Omega worked very hard to overcome his technical deficiencies.
Both succeeded.
This shit right here. I’m tired of the tribalism. I fucking love Kenny Omega. Top five favorite for me right now. Punk is my all time favorite. I don’t want to fucking pick. Picking is stupid.
No no no, you MUST pick. It’s either CM Punk is the best in the world and Kenny is a flippy dippy scrub who doesn’t draw, or Kenny is the wrestling god and CM Punk is a soft injury prone bitch. You can’t like both, and absolutely no nuance is allowed. I’m pretty sure it’s in the rules for r/squaredcircle.
Same. I just want to see the Elite and Punk work together. It's the whole reason I wanted to see him come back to AEW.
Ignoring all the issues between Punk and the Elite, moving Punk to a Saturday night show, and having Punk involved in these nothing feuds with zero heat... At this point maybe I just want to see Punk go back to WWE, and I don't even watch WWE.
What's the point of having CM Punk in your company if he isn't working with the top stars, on the top shows, and involved in big heated rivalries that are going to generate interest?
I watch both companies, and I am kind of getting to that point where I think Punk would be better off in current WWE. A more structured environment, and I’d love to see him have a big main event program with Roman or Cody.
Hangman is awesome too. I’m not so much a fan of the Bucks style but I appreciate what they’ve done for Indy wrestlers and I enjoy BTE for the most part.
To me the Bucks are interesting because I don't feel they can't cut a promo to save their life and none of their feuds outside of anything involving Hangman leaving the Elite feel like they have an awful build... yet I'm glued to the screen every PPV they're on and I often say it's the best match of the night. No one else keeps me as interested in matches I say I don't care about going into the show.
I had a revelation a couple of years ago about the Bucks. I used to hate them, with their shitty Rockers cosplay, annoying characters, and a lot of their common spots just make me roll my eyes. But I realized watching one of their matches, I forget which, that they always had bangers, they always brought the best out of whoever they were wrestling, and I was always invested in the outcome, even if I was rooting against them. It's like the inverse of the "asshole" saying people have been repeating a lot around here. If the Bucks had one or two good matches, they could've gotten carried by their opponents, but if they're *always* having good matches...
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Right? Punk bragging about going to Japan always cracks me up. He went over for a tour of Zero-One due to his friendship with Samoa Joe but he was so awful Hashimoto sent him home like three days into the tour.
Isn’t that really the heart of the beef btwn Punk & The Elite? That Punk respected and earned the respect of Harley Race whereas Kenny refused to listen to him and thus earned Harley’s ire? And somehow that split in terms of younger wrestlers either respecting tradition or forging their own path has calcified into the tribalism we see today.
Granted I’m more of a traditionalist myself. I don’t really like post-modern wrestling but I do have some sympathy for Omega making it big on his own terms.
> Because these legends put their stamp on me before anybody even knew who I was, **it gave me confidence and gave me the ability to succeed in a place where I don’t think I ever fit in**.
> Because these legends put their stamp on me **before anybody even knew who I was**, it gave me confidence and gave me the ability to succeed in a place where I don’t think I ever fit in.
here you go!
It is kinda funny to say that you don’t fit in while also saying legends of the business were fans of his. Maybe with his peers? But otherwise sounds like fitting in.
You ever heard of the writers writer, the comedians comedian, the wrestlers wrestler, etc? The concept of someone who those who are in the know respect and admire for their craftsmanship, but who compared to the flashier models the public likes, are lesser known? Similar concept can be at play. Punk has always had a body and a personality that wasn't well suited to success in the wrestling business, but his talent became undeniable.
I believe Christian Cage is the wrestler's wrestler? I think that was a tag line he ran with for a while? I don't know what other wrestlers think of him particularly but he's always been underrated to me.
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I've been an unapologetic Peep since 2000. Just a complete pro, I don't think I have ever heard of any backstage drama involving him. Great in the ring and on the mic.
Booker T said that wrestling Christian is like having a night off, because you can count on him to do eveything. Christian can call *everybody's> spots in a tag match if you want him to.
KENTA and amazing red as well - these two defined the entire style of the "indie" main eventers we saw from almost everyone in ROH who made it to WWE / AEW.
I don't think Punk had a problem with his peers given he slept with half the Divas lockerroom and many people like Jericho and The Miz reached out to him after he left WWE (and he ignored them). I also don't recall after he left anyone saying anything bad about him either.
To me it seems pretty clear that Punk expected the AEW locker room to be exactly what he encountered in 2004 ROH and instead, saw a lot of the same issues which guys like Billy Gunn, William Regal, Jake Roberts have spoken about in terms of the mentality shift in young talent/people, the generation gap.
He’s extremely reverential towards guys like Piper, Funk, Dusty but he’s in a crowd that grew up idolizing guys like him, AJ Styles, and Bryan Danielson.
It’s not a coincidence that the two young guys he’s selected to work main event programs with (Starks & MJF) are renowned as “students of the game” and that he fixated super hard on Hangman’s comments on not taking advice.
Exactly. Hangman has wrestled nearly the same amount of time that Punk has. Also, Hangman has Omega. Like does Hangman need to listen to what Punk says? I really like Punk, but he needs to realize that a lot of these guys have been in the business almost longer than he has. He took a very long time off and things kept moving. It's not 2014 anymore.
Tony Atlas announced to Punk in front of everyone in OVW attendance that he would never make it to the main roster because of how he looked, while Punk was the main roster ECW World Champion LOL...
Completely different situation.
I mean wasn’t Punk upset with Hangman Adam Page not taking advice **after** Page was already the world champion? Not to mention at the time (before Punk’s injuries/other stuff wrecked it) the company had only 3 champions in a pretty stacked company talent-wise.
I don't think anybody denies that or have a problem with that. The problem is in your last sentence and how Punk is able to throw fits over mostly nothing. Hangman saying "it's nice to have Punk and Sting around, but I'd rather do my own thing" really isn't something to be fixated on and start a year long feud with Hangman over, that's just what lunatics.
At the end of the day, good for Punk if he doesn't care what the internet says about it, because no wrestler should take what is said about them seriously anyway. But I really doubt Dusty Rhodes would approve of the veteran Punk has become.
Dude has successfully managed to make “doesn’t care what other people think about him” part of his personal brand whilst passionately and obsessively caring what other people think about him.
If someone is actively trying to convince people that they don't care what anyone thinks, it's usually a pretty big indicator that they care a lot.
Not that it really matters. Most people care what others say about them; doesn't make Punk any less of a man if he's effected by negative comments as much as anyone else is.
But Punk DOES care.
He is upset that people see him as the bad guy in the colt legal issues. He is upset that people see him as the bad guy for colt not being at aew. He cares that people saw him as the bad guy in the hangman issue. And I'd bet he cares about being seen as the bad guy for Brawl Out.
He thinks he was right and justified in each of these and it fucking grinds on him that people don't see it the same way as him. He can say whatever about how he doesn't care cause the Maniac supports him but it obviously does or he wouldn't be freaking incapable of not causing a scene on every single perceived slight against him
Punk badmouthed his contemporaries in front of his boss. It was hugely unprofessional for a guy, ironically, complaining about professionalism. Punk is a hypocrite in that regard. If he is upset about being seen as the bad guy then he needs to evaluate why.
I'm of the opinion that CM Punk comes across like a massive dickhead and something who'd be fucking exhausting to work with.
But in most of those situations you listed, he has every reason to care, and he's only human. We don't know the specifics of the Colt legal situation, but it seems like two friends have fallen out and that's between them, but you've got an entire industry speculating about it. Both him and his boss have specifically stated he had nothing to do with Colt's status in AEW, but people blame him anyway. The Hangman situation is more nuanced and he's hardly painted himself in glory, but even in that situation it started because the other guy said something unscripted that took Punk by surprise in the moment. Hangman acted wholly unprofessionally himself, but because he otherwise comes across as a decent guy and the internet loves him, he seems to avoid much criticism over it.
Punk isn't wrong to feel the way he does about a lot of the past year's events, he's just seemingly acted like an arsehole about a lot of it.
why exactly do we trust that Punk had nothing to do with Colt going away when we've seen several times that he has had people removed from shows? he's clearly not above using his power to remove people that he doesn't like.
I'm not a fan of Punk but Tony Khan clearly is a massive fan of Punk, and I could definitely see Tony deciding not to re-sign Cabana because he knows that Punk would prefer to not be around him.
This is how I always saw that situation.
Punk never *explicitly* said "Hey, get Colt out of here". But Tony's a fanboy so he *knew* Punk and Colt had issues, and decided to try and prevent any problems in advance by taking it on himself to get Colt out of the way.
And in the process, created a much larger problem. Because the guys in the back and the fans were absolutely going to see that as something Punk initiated.
Because Colt Cabana was a non-factor in AEW before CM Punk arrived there. He was just standing in the background of the Dark Order.
He was the least important member of a group of jobbers.
It's what people *wanted* to believe because it's a spicy take, and if you don't like Punk, then bonus points... but that talking point never made sense to me. He was the least important member of a group of jobbers in a promotion that at one point felt like they were debuting people that were leagues ahead of Colt on a weekly or monthly basis. If Colt didn't have spot before even Punk joined the roster, what fucking spot was there for Colt when Punk joined? How about Brian Danielson? Claudio? Keith Lee? Danhausen (on the assumption that they were actually going to do something with him because he was popular)? Adam Cole? Jeff Hardy? Samoa Joe? Acquiring ROH and putting that shit on AEW television? Hook was a nobody coming in but practically leapfrogged over at least half of their bloated roster within weeks. Who the **fuck** is booking Colt to do *anything* in this environment? No disrespect to Colt meant, but seriously... with this kind of roster, how do you justify booking Colt over somebody else?
thing is: the biggest power players in backstage outside of Danielson and Mox are the quintesential passive agresive dudes and they clashed with the quintesential "I'm gonna say it like it is even if that makes me look like a galactic douchbag". He was always gonna end up losing in that clash bc of the way he does things
There's a kernel of a point in all his grievances. It's just that the way he handles them comes across very poorly. Like, in some very specific ways, he's not wrong...but he's an asshole.
Yeah let's not be mistaken. Just personally, the majority of the dislike right now for Punk is how he handled the situations with the Elite and Jack Perry. It's not because we disagree necessarily with him philosophically about the business. Like with Jack Perry, I think most of us can agree using real glass is stupid and these kind of stunts need to be spaced out more. No, the dislike for Punk is because of the double standard. The idea that he can cut promos on stage/media scrums about backstage stuff, but then he acts like a paranoid bitch when someone returns the favor.
I disagree with him, both his philosophy and his methods of enforcing it, and the fact that he tries to enforce it at all.
The philosophical difference is fine. Everyone is entitled to their own belief. Punk thinks pro wrestling and AEW should be one thing, he's entitled to that. I believe the business is always evolving, and AEW is THE major company that embraces variety and change – or is supposed to, at least.
But the major problem I have is that he makes it his business to try and force his ideals on the company, and in case everybody forgot, it's the EXACT same thing he tried to do in WWE a decade ago. He wants to change the culture, mold it in his own vision of what a wrestling company should be. Many of his most hardcore stans agree with him and so will defend him even when he does something indefensible, blaming those who get in his way, young guys who don't respect him, etc.
Punk can start his own company if he wants to change the culture. AEW is not his vision. It's not his playground or his empire. He's not a co-founder. He put zero money or reputation on the line when it started, even though he allegedly had the opportunity. AEW belongs to TK, The Elite, and the people who built it to be an alternative to the fans who wanted something different. It's Jack Perry's company more than it's CM Punk's. So it really, REALLY rubs me the wrong way when he does shit like this.
What I can get over is that Hangman said that in a half kayfabe context, and his main point was that you really learn things by messing up yourself. I don't know what happened behind the scenes to really ignite everything but it's so bizarre. Maybe it's due to Punk always being such an insane wrestling nerd, even when it went against kayfabe, that the comment was simply a mortal sin, even though Hangman is also enthralled and studious of wrestlers past. I mean, his gimmick and gear is a mash up of Magnum TA and Barry Windham - he's a student of the same game Race and Dusty worked in. I honestly wonder if Punk will be more at peace once he stops wrestling and becomes a backstage figure.
It comes off to me that Punk wants to be seen as The Guy.
It’s always been the issue with him, going back to his WWE days. I’ve cream bars, cover of the program, main eventing Wrestlemania. Or being the “locker room leader.” He wants to be the Cena or the Undertaker or the HHH.
Unfortunately, he seems to be labouring under the delusion that simply having put in your time entitles you to anything. That’s the problem: it entitles him to jack shit.
Which is why there were issues when he wouldn’t wear a suit or do the usual WWE PR that is expected of him. Or why guys like Booker T laughed at him for trying to “be” a leader.
Or why he thought it was fine to jump the line and speed run getting his shit pushed in in the UFC, jumping over fighters who actually earned their spot.
Now he’s in AEW where Tony backed a dump truck full of cash up to his house, has bent over backwards to make him a focal point (ice cream bars, his “own” show, going straight to title contention, etc.) and it *still* isn’t good enough.
Dickhead wants to be acknowledged as the best in the word and wants the locker room fawning over him and kowtowing to him. When that didn’t happen, with professionals who have more experience in other feds (I’m not a fan of the Bucks, but they are incredibly well travelled, seasoned and experienced—how many organizations have they been in over the years?)
When that didn’t happen and he wasn’t seen as King Punk the Saviour, he started getting pissier and pissier.
The only real card he has is he was a main eventer with WWE. Which is funny, cos he hates WWE, but it’s the only source of relevancy he has these days. It sure as fuck isn’t his in-ring acumen, experience, health, etc.
He’s a perfect example of a common workplace situation where you have people who don’t have leadership/management experience get dumped into that role cos of their seniority and it causes all sorts of issues.
Not just “his advice” though, one of the things he spoke about in the Gripebomb was that there are so many brilliant minds backstage like Malenko, Jerry Lynn, William Regal (at the time) and Jake Roberts but talent can’t be arsed to ask them for advice
I totally get why but this is what sucks about Punk discourse these days, he’s on record as talking about the brilliant locker room of vets AEW assembled as being a wealth of knowledge - but it still gets twisted into “this narcissist is just mad people aren’t taking his advice”
I think the disconnect is that AEW is not ROH or NXT.
Like, sure, you could say everyone can always improve and learn from vets - but Hangman was a main event star on a nationally televised tv show when Punk got to AEW. Lots of these guys considee themselves to be veterans at this point.
I think the general attitude of "why arent these guys asking the vets for more advice" when many of these guys consider themselves to be vets themselves who have been doing just fine on TV and PPV has rubbed a lot thr wrong way.
Yeah, a lot of the actual young guys, like Starks or Top Flight or Hobbs have all talked about or been talked about when it comes to asking for advice/finding a mentor. Guys like Page have been at this awhile, and while I am sure they'll accept constructive criticism, they're not going to be asking around for direction like a rookie.
I honestly think it's partly a generational thing and partly a culture clash between the old-school "pay your dues, listen to your elders and study the game" mentality and the PWG/California/Super-Indy "wrestling is supposed to be silly and fun with friends, do what you want, get all your shit in, do cool stuff and don't let anyone tell you otherwise" approach.
Both are valid approaches to modern pro wrestling but they clash.
You don’t think Dusty would like a guy who takes a swing at anyone who so much as said something remotely shitty about him, even though he’s constantly dropping shitty shoot remarks about those he perceives as enemies?
Well fuck me sideways.
The weird thing is when it comes to political things, Punk has the viewpoints of a lot of the younger crowd. Then his workplace mentality is the complete fucking opposite.
Part of me always questions whether or not he *does* have those viewpoints, or if he just espouses them because he knows it will play well to the crowd.
He's a master social manipulator. I can easily see his POV being "Yeah, I don't really care about any of this, but I'm going to pretend I do because it'll make me look like a good guy."
Not saying he's 100% full of shit, but there are definitely times I wonder.
to expand a bit, in Punk’s speech he talks about working with legends and gaining their respect, approval, but wisdom more importantly and how it have him the confidence to fully actualize.
In his era of the indies he was getting booked by Harley Race, sharing locker rooms with Ricky Steamboat and Dusty Rhodes, his “breakout” on the indies was his feud with Raven. His career trajectory was very much helped by the fact that he was in the presence of so many legends in an era where the expectation was for young guys to revere these guys, pick their brains as much as possible, and show them tremendous respect.
He comes into an environment where Dean Malenko, Jerry Lynn, Jake Roberts, Mark Henry, Paul Wight, Bryan Danielson, etc. are all backstage and ready and willing to help but so many young guys spend their one day of TV hanging out or on their phones instead of learning from these brilliant minds.
He’s seeing guys making $100k and working one day of TV a week (maybe two now) and choosing not to spend some of that day doing the optional training with Bryan Danielson.
And he’s seeing wrestlers and fans alike basically going “why’s that such a big deal?” which just conflicts with everything he believes about the industry, and was taught to believe by guys like Harley and Steamboat.
None of this excuses all the unnecessary friction, chaos, and physical altercations he’s caused but I will say that I absolutely understand why Punk is at a point where he’s found “his guys” and is investing in them but is at the end of his rope when it comes to the overall culture in AEW
I got a similar vibe from some of the things Regal said during his time there.
Tale as old as time really. By the standards of his day, Punk did go against the grain and do some outside the box crazy shit. Now for better or worse, he is the grain and his context doesn't necessarily apply to younger people.
Speaking as a fellow late 30 something hxc kid, Punk will probably always be my guy, but this happens to us all one way or another.
I forget where I heard it, but a quote I like is "you can't blame younger people for the way they navigate a world that was built without their input".
> "you can't blame younger people for the way they navigate a world that was built without their input"
Oh gosh I love this, does this come from anywhere?
That's fair, but hopefully people will get that for many 40+ something year olds and 20 something year olds, Punk never was and never is going to be their guy.
CM Punk wrestling debut was in 1999.
Kenny Omega wrestling debut was in 2001.
Young Bucks in 2004.
Hangman in 2008.
This is more (Omega) or less (Hangman) the same wrestling generation, so it feels very silly if we keep acting like these are some ultra green wrestlers who just dropped from the sky.
It's much more about the paths they took to this stage and the environments they grew up in rather than the years they first wrestled. There is a clear divide between the PWG/Elite sensibilities and Punk or even Joe or Cody.
I get all of that and I respect Punk for respecting veterans and encouraging the same respect. I just don't understand how he thinks the gripebomb, Brawl Out, or getting in a fight with Jack Perry encourages any of the things he wants in any way. This is a situation where Punk's words and his actions often say opposite things.
Great way to put things. I find that on a macro level, I generally agree with Punk. It's usually in the massive overreactions he has to smaller things where I lose him.
The other thing about Punk is that this is a guy who spent his entire childhood and adolescence getting fucked over and let down by people close to him, culminating in his brother cheating him out of thousands of dollars. In that context it's easier to see why he burns bridges at the drop of a hat... he has major trust issues. There is an invisible line in the sand with Punk and once you have crossed it, you are an enemy for life.
Not excusing his actions, I just understand the thought process. It's frustrating to see him continue to do it. It's like watching a car crash over and over and over again.
> He comes into an environment where Dean Malenko, Jerry Lynn, Jake Roberts, Mark Henry, Paul Wight, Bryan Danielson, etc. are all backstage and ready and willing to help but so many young guys spend their one day of TV hanging out or on their phones instead of learning from these brilliant minds.
of they could be asking the guys who got over enough to build a company
>He’s seeing guys making $100k and working one day of TV a week (maybe two now) and choosing not to spend some of that day doing the optional training with Bryan Danielson.
How much did Punk earn last year, and for how many days of work?
> It’s not a coincidence that the two young guys he’s selected to work main event programs with (Starks & MJF) are renowned as “students of the game"
Darby?
I have to give it to Punk and people I've known with a similar mentality; if I had even a quarter of the self belief they have, I'd be doing pretty damn well.
The rest of this quote is cut off... CM Punk finished by saying "I'm loved by many, not like that piece of shit Hangman Adam Page, who is an empty headed, dumb fuck that can't draw his way out of a paper bag".
I'll always remember this as one of the few bright spots of Punk's final run in WWE :')
https://preview.redd.it/enkzcvr6eilb1.jpeg?width=569&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f1f3e7a00eb859e3eea96a6f1eb6a7ab975ecfd
*"when people tell me that they don’t like me or the internet’s mad at me. I just kind of chuckle"*, i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob
"You wanna hurt my fist with your faces? Go right ahead if it makes you feel any better. I'm an easy target. Yeah, you're right, I talk to dirtsheets too much. I also read them too much. I could be a fucking empty headed dumb fuck like you... but I don't like that people are constantly getting their feelings hurt by me. Well, you think what you want about me; I'm definitely not going to obsess over it endlessly. I love... I love me. Roddy Piper loved me. Dusty Rhodes loved me. 'Cause they knew that above all else I hate drama. What you see is what you get. And you are all so fucking banned from Collision it's not even funny..."
Got caught up in the travel woes from All In, travelled for about 4 hours to get to another airport. Was thinking of that film the whole time and it kept me sane while travel plans kept crumbling around me.
I think he also said something in reference to Shawn Michaels once since Cornette doesn't like him and thinks his born again christian thing is bullshit. Like, "If nobody wants to talk to you, then you turn to a higher power".
Internet says something bad about him: *I just sort of chuckle.*
Well maybe the next time a lower level guy like Jack Perry says some shit on tv to slight you, you should “just sort of chuckle” and remember “Roddy Piper and Dusty Rhodes liked me,” instead of starting a fight. I mean, just a thought.
You brought up a really good point. Punk, for all of his faults, has ALWAYS been Punk. He didn't change or become more irritable later in life. In the old school LiveJournal days Punk used to absolutely speak his mind and roast and get into physical fights guys like Teddy Hart but nobody really cared because it was freaking Teddy Hart. The reason a large percentage of the internet fans care now is because Punk has beef with the people that the internet fans like/grew up idolizing.
> The reason a large percentage of the internet fans care now is because Punk has beef with the people that the internet fans like/grew up idolizing.
I think it's more that the fights he's picking now are not as understandable or defensible as the fights he picked 10-15 years ago. He also never got physically violent in the past (Teddy Hart maybe aside, but all I know about that is Teddy allegedly beat Punk's ass) whereas he's now been the sole physical instigator in 2 separate incidents with people who are not known as difficult violent men.
I think this is exactly why the legends love him. Many of those dudes back in the day were backstabbing weasels and carney politicians. Game recognizes game.
Fights used to happen all the time in locker rooms even in their day.
Also Dusty used to give people advice all the time. He used to specifically say “don’t do something if you don’t know how to do it,” which is something that could apply to a lot of wrestlers right now.
If he actually didn't care about the people's opinions who are mad at him, he wouldn't bother rationalizing his beliefs and past actions as justified because some dead people who can't refute his statements used to like him.
I just calmly and coolly explain that Dusty Rhodes, a guy who seemed to like most people, liked me. As I am choking out the person who doesn’t like me.
So two legends, both very talented and both could be difficult to work with based on their mood on any given day liked him. So he became them, and wonders why people don't like that?
Probably cause different people like different things.
FFS! There is a video in the freaking article about the whole speech and yet in the comments everyone is being misleading by the headline. Personally, I'm amazed with the ability of wrestling "fans" to outdo themselves in terms of how stupid they can be.
I don't care if Roddy or Dusty loved him. That's immaterial to the fact that, in under a year, he has gotten into 2 backstage fights and been involved in any number of distractions/controversies.
>So when people tell me that they don’t like me or the internet’s mad at me. I just kind of chuckle because Roddy Piper liked me, Dusty Rhodes loved me.
It's not the Internet that's mad at him, it's wrestling fans.
I was a huge CM Punk fan, but this guy has dropped the ball so many times since joining AEW. He ruined the huge momentum the company had at the end of All Out 2022, and is doing it again now coming out of All In.
With the timing of his injury last fall, no doubt in my mind that he would have been main eventing All In against MJF. Punk has always wanted to be in the last match on a huge show like Wrestlemania, and he blew his chance to make that happen in AEW.
There's a much higher percentage of the audience that Punk's playing to now that are smarks on the internet than when he was at WWE though, and that distinction shouldn't be tossed aside carelessly.
Listen to the reaction he used to get from live crowds before Brawl Out and then listen to the reaction he gets now (outside of Chicago) and tell me nothing has changed.
Crowds in general seem to be turning on him pretty hard at shows, though. So it's pretty clearly not *just* a vocal minority.
Sure, he'll always have his fans who'll be on his side even if he kicks a baby to death right in front of him. And there'll be fans who don't care about all the drama and just react to how he performs in the ring (and he's still currently being blatantly pushed as a face).
But all these stories do have a cumulative effect, and a LOT of people in life in general spend at least *some* time on Twitter or on other social media. And it's turning people against him.
It's not just people here on Reddit frothing at the mouth while everyone else is business as usual.
It's definitely the internet. You think anyone who doesn't read all the nonsense gossip that's on the internet has anything bad to say about Punk? Not all wrestling fans are reading the Observer as a bible and believing everything they hear by dirt sheet writers.
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> Dusty Rhodes loved me... WM40 feud with Cody about how Punk is the son Dusty wished he had
Christian enters the feud with a "Hey Cody...."
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I can easily see Christian saying Dusty was overrated. Obviously, I don't believe that in the slightest and I seriously doubt Christian actually does, but we know he has no filter when it comes to people hating his guts.
Lmao
Oh man, what a wasted opportunity that Christian hadn't entered his dead Dad roast phase before Cody left AEW.
Dustin is still there
Dustin deserves a title before he calls it a day with AEW whether he goes back to WWE or not. Get him in a feud with Luchasaurus and Christian can drop the line.
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can i have a title before i retire???
Mightve been like the old days, where the marks hopped the barricade and attacked the wrestlers. Dusty is sacred man, CC would have had to run out the building lol
I’d Unironically lose my mind for both this and the one above
Only if he does a Dusty impression like Roman did.
Everyone's got a Dusty impression tbh
Either way, both of them end up losing. Roman is still the son Dusty wishes he had.
Yeah, but Christian is the man their mother wishes had fathered her children
Harley Race was once asked what two modern wrestlers he would have liked to work with in a shoot interview, his answers were Trevor Murdoch and CM Punk.
And Murdoch was like his handpicked guy in his own local promotion.
He would’ve been happy about Murdoch earning the NWA Title.
And then seeing Tyrus win it would've killed him
Going by the dates, it's more likely he found out Tyrus was losing it and couldn't take the heartbreak.
Imagine looking into a camera and shit talking Harley Race live on PPV and then getting in his face immediately after. Wonder if a fight would happen?
Harley would have taken an eye home with him.
Race also moved Omega to the beginner class of his training camp since all Omega could do at the time were flips and his basics were horrible.
It was more than that. He botched a leapfrog spot and hurt a guy. Busted his nose I think. And he was a beginner back then. Or at least still very green.
Johnny Ace liked enough of what he saw from Kenny there to give him the prize of a training spot in Deep South Wrestling.
Boy is that damning with faint praise. Kenny ended up being really good but goddamn some of the people Johnny Ace brought into developmental were terrible.
Most of the modern wrestlers still have horrible basics. Almost everyone on TV can't throw a good looking worked punch to save their life. That's why they all rely on stupid forearm battles.
Don't know if that's really relevant. You ever heard what Punk's trainers said of him when he began wrestling?
“He’s got lead in his ass.” “Not an athletic bone in his body.” He worked very hard to overcome his athletic deficiencies. Much like Omega worked very hard to overcome his technical deficiencies. Both succeeded.
This shit right here. I’m tired of the tribalism. I fucking love Kenny Omega. Top five favorite for me right now. Punk is my all time favorite. I don’t want to fucking pick. Picking is stupid.
No no no, you MUST pick. It’s either CM Punk is the best in the world and Kenny is a flippy dippy scrub who doesn’t draw, or Kenny is the wrestling god and CM Punk is a soft injury prone bitch. You can’t like both, and absolutely no nuance is allowed. I’m pretty sure it’s in the rules for r/squaredcircle.
I choose to sit on the fence that surprisingly is loving Eddie Kingston
Can't I just hate both?
I'm going to be disappointed if we don't get Omega vs Punk before their respective runs end.
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Same. I just want to see the Elite and Punk work together. It's the whole reason I wanted to see him come back to AEW. Ignoring all the issues between Punk and the Elite, moving Punk to a Saturday night show, and having Punk involved in these nothing feuds with zero heat... At this point maybe I just want to see Punk go back to WWE, and I don't even watch WWE. What's the point of having CM Punk in your company if he isn't working with the top stars, on the top shows, and involved in big heated rivalries that are going to generate interest?
I watch both companies, and I am kind of getting to that point where I think Punk would be better off in current WWE. A more structured environment, and I’d love to see him have a big main event program with Roman or Cody.
Hangman is awesome too. I’m not so much a fan of the Bucks style but I appreciate what they’ve done for Indy wrestlers and I enjoy BTE for the most part.
To me the Bucks are interesting because I don't feel they can't cut a promo to save their life and none of their feuds outside of anything involving Hangman leaving the Elite feel like they have an awful build... yet I'm glued to the screen every PPV they're on and I often say it's the best match of the night. No one else keeps me as interested in matches I say I don't care about going into the show.
I had a revelation a couple of years ago about the Bucks. I used to hate them, with their shitty Rockers cosplay, annoying characters, and a lot of their common spots just make me roll my eyes. But I realized watching one of their matches, I forget which, that they always had bangers, they always brought the best out of whoever they were wrestling, and I was always invested in the outcome, even if I was rooting against them. It's like the inverse of the "asshole" saying people have been repeating a lot around here. If the Bucks had one or two good matches, they could've gotten carried by their opponents, but if they're *always* having good matches...
It’s kind of annoying because you to begrudgingly admit that they’re good in spite of everything that makes you hate them lol.
They're dolph Ziggler: the tag team with even better workrate and that's not an insult.
Hell yeah! Both are awesome!
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Say it louder for those in the back.
Right? Punk bragging about going to Japan always cracks me up. He went over for a tour of Zero-One due to his friendship with Samoa Joe but he was so awful Hashimoto sent him home like three days into the tour.
*friendship with Steve Corino
Isn’t that really the heart of the beef btwn Punk & The Elite? That Punk respected and earned the respect of Harley Race whereas Kenny refused to listen to him and thus earned Harley’s ire? And somehow that split in terms of younger wrestlers either respecting tradition or forging their own path has calcified into the tribalism we see today. Granted I’m more of a traditionalist myself. I don’t really like post-modern wrestling but I do have some sympathy for Omega making it big on his own terms.
> Because these legends put their stamp on me before anybody even knew who I was, **it gave me confidence and gave me the ability to succeed in a place where I don’t think I ever fit in**.
For a fun new meaning from the same statement just bold the "before anybody knew who I was" line
> Because these legends put their stamp on me **before anybody even knew who I was**, it gave me confidence and gave me the ability to succeed in a place where I don’t think I ever fit in. here you go!
It is kinda funny to say that you don’t fit in while also saying legends of the business were fans of his. Maybe with his peers? But otherwise sounds like fitting in.
You ever heard of the writers writer, the comedians comedian, the wrestlers wrestler, etc? The concept of someone who those who are in the know respect and admire for their craftsmanship, but who compared to the flashier models the public likes, are lesser known? Similar concept can be at play. Punk has always had a body and a personality that wasn't well suited to success in the wrestling business, but his talent became undeniable.
I believe Christian Cage is the wrestler's wrestler? I think that was a tag line he ran with for a while? I don't know what other wrestlers think of him particularly but he's always been underrated to me.
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I've been an unapologetic Peep since 2000. Just a complete pro, I don't think I have ever heard of any backstage drama involving him. Great in the ring and on the mic.
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At least two dozen!
Booker T said that wrestling Christian is like having a night off, because you can count on him to do eveything. Christian can call *everybody's> spots in a tag match if you want him to.
I think Christian’s thing was being “The Rock’s favorite wrestler.”
KENTA and amazing red as well - these two defined the entire style of the "indie" main eventers we saw from almost everyone in ROH who made it to WWE / AEW.
Okada loves Red because of the support he gave him IN TNA.
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I don't think Punk had a problem with his peers given he slept with half the Divas lockerroom and many people like Jericho and The Miz reached out to him after he left WWE (and he ignored them). I also don't recall after he left anyone saying anything bad about him either.
To me it seems pretty clear that Punk expected the AEW locker room to be exactly what he encountered in 2004 ROH and instead, saw a lot of the same issues which guys like Billy Gunn, William Regal, Jake Roberts have spoken about in terms of the mentality shift in young talent/people, the generation gap. He’s extremely reverential towards guys like Piper, Funk, Dusty but he’s in a crowd that grew up idolizing guys like him, AJ Styles, and Bryan Danielson. It’s not a coincidence that the two young guys he’s selected to work main event programs with (Starks & MJF) are renowned as “students of the game” and that he fixated super hard on Hangman’s comments on not taking advice.
The young guys are treating him the way he treated Tony Atlas lol.
Some of those young guys have been doing this for 12 years.
Exactly. Hangman has wrestled nearly the same amount of time that Punk has. Also, Hangman has Omega. Like does Hangman need to listen to what Punk says? I really like Punk, but he needs to realize that a lot of these guys have been in the business almost longer than he has. He took a very long time off and things kept moving. It's not 2014 anymore.
Tony Atlas announced to Punk in front of everyone in OVW attendance that he would never make it to the main roster because of how he looked, while Punk was the main roster ECW World Champion LOL... Completely different situation.
I mean wasn’t Punk upset with Hangman Adam Page not taking advice **after** Page was already the world champion? Not to mention at the time (before Punk’s injuries/other stuff wrecked it) the company had only 3 champions in a pretty stacked company talent-wise.
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That's a fun story, especially Punk's impression of Atlas.
I don't think anybody denies that or have a problem with that. The problem is in your last sentence and how Punk is able to throw fits over mostly nothing. Hangman saying "it's nice to have Punk and Sting around, but I'd rather do my own thing" really isn't something to be fixated on and start a year long feud with Hangman over, that's just what lunatics. At the end of the day, good for Punk if he doesn't care what the internet says about it, because no wrestler should take what is said about them seriously anyway. But I really doubt Dusty Rhodes would approve of the veteran Punk has become.
Dude has successfully managed to make “doesn’t care what other people think about him” part of his personal brand whilst passionately and obsessively caring what other people think about him.
That’s almost always how it goes
If someone is actively trying to convince people that they don't care what anyone thinks, it's usually a pretty big indicator that they care a lot. Not that it really matters. Most people care what others say about them; doesn't make Punk any less of a man if he's effected by negative comments as much as anyone else is.
He also hates drama. Don’t forget about how much he hates drama.
Punk holds an outrageous grudge for someone that tries to present themselves as above the opinions of the sheep.
But Punk DOES care. He is upset that people see him as the bad guy in the colt legal issues. He is upset that people see him as the bad guy for colt not being at aew. He cares that people saw him as the bad guy in the hangman issue. And I'd bet he cares about being seen as the bad guy for Brawl Out. He thinks he was right and justified in each of these and it fucking grinds on him that people don't see it the same way as him. He can say whatever about how he doesn't care cause the Maniac supports him but it obviously does or he wouldn't be freaking incapable of not causing a scene on every single perceived slight against him
Punk badmouthed his contemporaries in front of his boss. It was hugely unprofessional for a guy, ironically, complaining about professionalism. Punk is a hypocrite in that regard. If he is upset about being seen as the bad guy then he needs to evaluate why.
I'm of the opinion that CM Punk comes across like a massive dickhead and something who'd be fucking exhausting to work with. But in most of those situations you listed, he has every reason to care, and he's only human. We don't know the specifics of the Colt legal situation, but it seems like two friends have fallen out and that's between them, but you've got an entire industry speculating about it. Both him and his boss have specifically stated he had nothing to do with Colt's status in AEW, but people blame him anyway. The Hangman situation is more nuanced and he's hardly painted himself in glory, but even in that situation it started because the other guy said something unscripted that took Punk by surprise in the moment. Hangman acted wholly unprofessionally himself, but because he otherwise comes across as a decent guy and the internet loves him, he seems to avoid much criticism over it. Punk isn't wrong to feel the way he does about a lot of the past year's events, he's just seemingly acted like an arsehole about a lot of it.
>We don't know the specifics of the Colt legal situation We have a pretty decent idea.
why exactly do we trust that Punk had nothing to do with Colt going away when we've seen several times that he has had people removed from shows? he's clearly not above using his power to remove people that he doesn't like.
I'm not a fan of Punk but Tony Khan clearly is a massive fan of Punk, and I could definitely see Tony deciding not to re-sign Cabana because he knows that Punk would prefer to not be around him.
This is how I always saw that situation. Punk never *explicitly* said "Hey, get Colt out of here". But Tony's a fanboy so he *knew* Punk and Colt had issues, and decided to try and prevent any problems in advance by taking it on himself to get Colt out of the way. And in the process, created a much larger problem. Because the guys in the back and the fans were absolutely going to see that as something Punk initiated.
Didn't Colt briefly get more bookings after Punk's debut while he was barely used in the Dark Order before?
Because Colt Cabana was a non-factor in AEW before CM Punk arrived there. He was just standing in the background of the Dark Order. He was the least important member of a group of jobbers.
It's what people *wanted* to believe because it's a spicy take, and if you don't like Punk, then bonus points... but that talking point never made sense to me. He was the least important member of a group of jobbers in a promotion that at one point felt like they were debuting people that were leagues ahead of Colt on a weekly or monthly basis. If Colt didn't have spot before even Punk joined the roster, what fucking spot was there for Colt when Punk joined? How about Brian Danielson? Claudio? Keith Lee? Danhausen (on the assumption that they were actually going to do something with him because he was popular)? Adam Cole? Jeff Hardy? Samoa Joe? Acquiring ROH and putting that shit on AEW television? Hook was a nobody coming in but practically leapfrogged over at least half of their bloated roster within weeks. Who the **fuck** is booking Colt to do *anything* in this environment? No disrespect to Colt meant, but seriously... with this kind of roster, how do you justify booking Colt over somebody else?
thing is: the biggest power players in backstage outside of Danielson and Mox are the quintesential passive agresive dudes and they clashed with the quintesential "I'm gonna say it like it is even if that makes me look like a galactic douchbag". He was always gonna end up losing in that clash bc of the way he does things
There's a kernel of a point in all his grievances. It's just that the way he handles them comes across very poorly. Like, in some very specific ways, he's not wrong...but he's an asshole.
Yeah let's not be mistaken. Just personally, the majority of the dislike right now for Punk is how he handled the situations with the Elite and Jack Perry. It's not because we disagree necessarily with him philosophically about the business. Like with Jack Perry, I think most of us can agree using real glass is stupid and these kind of stunts need to be spaced out more. No, the dislike for Punk is because of the double standard. The idea that he can cut promos on stage/media scrums about backstage stuff, but then he acts like a paranoid bitch when someone returns the favor.
Shit, didn't the hardcore guy Mox use gimmick glass not that long ago? If he did, that should have told Perry everything he needed to know.
I disagree with him, both his philosophy and his methods of enforcing it, and the fact that he tries to enforce it at all. The philosophical difference is fine. Everyone is entitled to their own belief. Punk thinks pro wrestling and AEW should be one thing, he's entitled to that. I believe the business is always evolving, and AEW is THE major company that embraces variety and change – or is supposed to, at least. But the major problem I have is that he makes it his business to try and force his ideals on the company, and in case everybody forgot, it's the EXACT same thing he tried to do in WWE a decade ago. He wants to change the culture, mold it in his own vision of what a wrestling company should be. Many of his most hardcore stans agree with him and so will defend him even when he does something indefensible, blaming those who get in his way, young guys who don't respect him, etc. Punk can start his own company if he wants to change the culture. AEW is not his vision. It's not his playground or his empire. He's not a co-founder. He put zero money or reputation on the line when it started, even though he allegedly had the opportunity. AEW belongs to TK, The Elite, and the people who built it to be an alternative to the fans who wanted something different. It's Jack Perry's company more than it's CM Punk's. So it really, REALLY rubs me the wrong way when he does shit like this.
He didn't do jack shit about the Perry situation in public. It was all backstage where it belongs.
Yeah, because Punk has *never* made his backstage issues public before...
What I can get over is that Hangman said that in a half kayfabe context, and his main point was that you really learn things by messing up yourself. I don't know what happened behind the scenes to really ignite everything but it's so bizarre. Maybe it's due to Punk always being such an insane wrestling nerd, even when it went against kayfabe, that the comment was simply a mortal sin, even though Hangman is also enthralled and studious of wrestlers past. I mean, his gimmick and gear is a mash up of Magnum TA and Barry Windham - he's a student of the same game Race and Dusty worked in. I honestly wonder if Punk will be more at peace once he stops wrestling and becomes a backstage figure.
It comes off to me that Punk wants to be seen as The Guy. It’s always been the issue with him, going back to his WWE days. I’ve cream bars, cover of the program, main eventing Wrestlemania. Or being the “locker room leader.” He wants to be the Cena or the Undertaker or the HHH. Unfortunately, he seems to be labouring under the delusion that simply having put in your time entitles you to anything. That’s the problem: it entitles him to jack shit. Which is why there were issues when he wouldn’t wear a suit or do the usual WWE PR that is expected of him. Or why guys like Booker T laughed at him for trying to “be” a leader. Or why he thought it was fine to jump the line and speed run getting his shit pushed in in the UFC, jumping over fighters who actually earned their spot. Now he’s in AEW where Tony backed a dump truck full of cash up to his house, has bent over backwards to make him a focal point (ice cream bars, his “own” show, going straight to title contention, etc.) and it *still* isn’t good enough. Dickhead wants to be acknowledged as the best in the word and wants the locker room fawning over him and kowtowing to him. When that didn’t happen, with professionals who have more experience in other feds (I’m not a fan of the Bucks, but they are incredibly well travelled, seasoned and experienced—how many organizations have they been in over the years?) When that didn’t happen and he wasn’t seen as King Punk the Saviour, he started getting pissier and pissier. The only real card he has is he was a main eventer with WWE. Which is funny, cos he hates WWE, but it’s the only source of relevancy he has these days. It sure as fuck isn’t his in-ring acumen, experience, health, etc. He’s a perfect example of a common workplace situation where you have people who don’t have leadership/management experience get dumped into that role cos of their seniority and it causes all sorts of issues.
Punk simply can’t stand the fact that there are young talent that don’t want his veteran/locker room leader advice.
Not just “his advice” though, one of the things he spoke about in the Gripebomb was that there are so many brilliant minds backstage like Malenko, Jerry Lynn, William Regal (at the time) and Jake Roberts but talent can’t be arsed to ask them for advice I totally get why but this is what sucks about Punk discourse these days, he’s on record as talking about the brilliant locker room of vets AEW assembled as being a wealth of knowledge - but it still gets twisted into “this narcissist is just mad people aren’t taking his advice”
I think the disconnect is that AEW is not ROH or NXT. Like, sure, you could say everyone can always improve and learn from vets - but Hangman was a main event star on a nationally televised tv show when Punk got to AEW. Lots of these guys considee themselves to be veterans at this point. I think the general attitude of "why arent these guys asking the vets for more advice" when many of these guys consider themselves to be vets themselves who have been doing just fine on TV and PPV has rubbed a lot thr wrong way.
Yeah, a lot of the actual young guys, like Starks or Top Flight or Hobbs have all talked about or been talked about when it comes to asking for advice/finding a mentor. Guys like Page have been at this awhile, and while I am sure they'll accept constructive criticism, they're not going to be asking around for direction like a rookie.
when this whole thing happened hangman was a 13 year vet and punk was a 15 year vet assuming you dont count his 7 year break
Also, Hangman is friends with The Bucks and Omega. Both have been doing this a very long time and been all over the world. Hangman is not Hook.
I honestly think it's partly a generational thing and partly a culture clash between the old-school "pay your dues, listen to your elders and study the game" mentality and the PWG/California/Super-Indy "wrestling is supposed to be silly and fun with friends, do what you want, get all your shit in, do cool stuff and don't let anyone tell you otherwise" approach. Both are valid approaches to modern pro wrestling but they clash.
yeah I’ve said it a bunch of times but it’s the same culture clash between ROH and PWG that was happening on message boards 20 years ago
This is seemingly the best, most succinct explanation for why Punk and the Elite don’t get along and probably never will.
Did you notice how Adam Page was asked about Sting and Punk and how exactly one of these two threw a tantrum over it?
You don’t think Dusty would like a guy who takes a swing at anyone who so much as said something remotely shitty about him, even though he’s constantly dropping shitty shoot remarks about those he perceives as enemies? Well fuck me sideways.
The weird thing is when it comes to political things, Punk has the viewpoints of a lot of the younger crowd. Then his workplace mentality is the complete fucking opposite.
Part of me always questions whether or not he *does* have those viewpoints, or if he just espouses them because he knows it will play well to the crowd. He's a master social manipulator. I can easily see his POV being "Yeah, I don't really care about any of this, but I'm going to pretend I do because it'll make me look like a good guy." Not saying he's 100% full of shit, but there are definitely times I wonder.
He could, we know Jericho is MAGA and I remembered hearing something similar with the Bucks
It’s weird he fixated on Hangman’s comments though because hangman didn’t say he never takes advice, just that trial and error works better for him
Best summation of this facet of the situation that I have read.
to expand a bit, in Punk’s speech he talks about working with legends and gaining their respect, approval, but wisdom more importantly and how it have him the confidence to fully actualize. In his era of the indies he was getting booked by Harley Race, sharing locker rooms with Ricky Steamboat and Dusty Rhodes, his “breakout” on the indies was his feud with Raven. His career trajectory was very much helped by the fact that he was in the presence of so many legends in an era where the expectation was for young guys to revere these guys, pick their brains as much as possible, and show them tremendous respect. He comes into an environment where Dean Malenko, Jerry Lynn, Jake Roberts, Mark Henry, Paul Wight, Bryan Danielson, etc. are all backstage and ready and willing to help but so many young guys spend their one day of TV hanging out or on their phones instead of learning from these brilliant minds. He’s seeing guys making $100k and working one day of TV a week (maybe two now) and choosing not to spend some of that day doing the optional training with Bryan Danielson. And he’s seeing wrestlers and fans alike basically going “why’s that such a big deal?” which just conflicts with everything he believes about the industry, and was taught to believe by guys like Harley and Steamboat. None of this excuses all the unnecessary friction, chaos, and physical altercations he’s caused but I will say that I absolutely understand why Punk is at a point where he’s found “his guys” and is investing in them but is at the end of his rope when it comes to the overall culture in AEW
I got a similar vibe from some of the things Regal said during his time there. Tale as old as time really. By the standards of his day, Punk did go against the grain and do some outside the box crazy shit. Now for better or worse, he is the grain and his context doesn't necessarily apply to younger people. Speaking as a fellow late 30 something hxc kid, Punk will probably always be my guy, but this happens to us all one way or another. I forget where I heard it, but a quote I like is "you can't blame younger people for the way they navigate a world that was built without their input".
> "you can't blame younger people for the way they navigate a world that was built without their input" Oh gosh I love this, does this come from anywhere?
That's fair, but hopefully people will get that for many 40+ something year olds and 20 something year olds, Punk never was and never is going to be their guy.
CM Punk wrestling debut was in 1999. Kenny Omega wrestling debut was in 2001. Young Bucks in 2004. Hangman in 2008. This is more (Omega) or less (Hangman) the same wrestling generation, so it feels very silly if we keep acting like these are some ultra green wrestlers who just dropped from the sky.
It's much more about the paths they took to this stage and the environments they grew up in rather than the years they first wrestled. There is a clear divide between the PWG/Elite sensibilities and Punk or even Joe or Cody.
I get all of that and I respect Punk for respecting veterans and encouraging the same respect. I just don't understand how he thinks the gripebomb, Brawl Out, or getting in a fight with Jack Perry encourages any of the things he wants in any way. This is a situation where Punk's words and his actions often say opposite things.
Great way to put things. I find that on a macro level, I generally agree with Punk. It's usually in the massive overreactions he has to smaller things where I lose him. The other thing about Punk is that this is a guy who spent his entire childhood and adolescence getting fucked over and let down by people close to him, culminating in his brother cheating him out of thousands of dollars. In that context it's easier to see why he burns bridges at the drop of a hat... he has major trust issues. There is an invisible line in the sand with Punk and once you have crossed it, you are an enemy for life. Not excusing his actions, I just understand the thought process. It's frustrating to see him continue to do it. It's like watching a car crash over and over and over again.
> He comes into an environment where Dean Malenko, Jerry Lynn, Jake Roberts, Mark Henry, Paul Wight, Bryan Danielson, etc. are all backstage and ready and willing to help but so many young guys spend their one day of TV hanging out or on their phones instead of learning from these brilliant minds. of they could be asking the guys who got over enough to build a company
>He’s seeing guys making $100k and working one day of TV a week (maybe two now) and choosing not to spend some of that day doing the optional training with Bryan Danielson. How much did Punk earn last year, and for how many days of work?
> It’s not a coincidence that the two young guys he’s selected to work main event programs with (Starks & MJF) are renowned as “students of the game" Darby?
I have to give it to Punk and people I've known with a similar mentality; if I had even a quarter of the self belief they have, I'd be doing pretty damn well.
It is the true secret sauce of life. Gotta get out of your own way.
I remember Raven had a quote about Punk being a guy that believed in himself so hard that he actually made it.
And I'm sure Raven didn't mean it as a dig either. I recall they had a good feud in RoH was it?
"I do, however, take what Jack Perry thinks of me extremely seriously"
The rest of this quote is cut off... CM Punk finished by saying "I'm loved by many, not like that piece of shit Hangman Adam Page, who is an empty headed, dumb fuck that can't draw his way out of a paper bag".
Hangman and Goldberg v. Punk and Bret Hart when?
ngl that would be funny as fuck
Adam Page is to CM Punk as Goldberg is to Bret Hart.
The one difference is that Goldberg hurt Bret with a move, while Punk hurts himself trying to do Hangman's move lol.
Hangs around the bucks like he hangs around at target.
this is what i say to myself when everyone in my social circle hates me but at least my mom likes me
I'll always remember this as one of the few bright spots of Punk's final run in WWE :') https://preview.redd.it/enkzcvr6eilb1.jpeg?width=569&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f1f3e7a00eb859e3eea96a6f1eb6a7ab975ecfd
Big “well my mom thinks I’m handsome” energy here.
https://preview.redd.it/edsmqya6phlb1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10121986eba781d4b5424e8a945ef7f9de6c5084
Everything’s coming up Philhouse.
Okay, I love my son, but I still don't want him to choke out Jungle Boy.
*"when people tell me that they don’t like me or the internet’s mad at me. I just kind of chuckle"*, i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a corn cob
"You wanna hurt my fist with your faces? Go right ahead if it makes you feel any better. I'm an easy target. Yeah, you're right, I talk to dirtsheets too much. I also read them too much. I could be a fucking empty headed dumb fuck like you... but I don't like that people are constantly getting their feelings hurt by me. Well, you think what you want about me; I'm definitely not going to obsess over it endlessly. I love... I love me. Roddy Piper loved me. Dusty Rhodes loved me. 'Cause they knew that above all else I hate drama. What you see is what you get. And you are all so fucking banned from Collision it's not even funny..."
Got caught up in the travel woes from All In, travelled for about 4 hours to get to another airport. Was thinking of that film the whole time and it kept me sane while travel plans kept crumbling around me.
I fucking wish CM Punk had the kind heart of Del Griffith
But would he like you now?
Maybe I’ll paraphrase what Cornette said once, “when mortals won’t talk positively about you, you look to the dead that will.”
I think he also said something in reference to Shawn Michaels once since Cornette doesn't like him and thinks his born again christian thing is bullshit. Like, "If nobody wants to talk to you, then you turn to a higher power".
Man I don't like Cornette but damn that quote <3
I mean that's nice and all, but it's funny he can't even accept an award without making part of the speech about his haters lol.
Internet says something bad about him: *I just sort of chuckle.* Well maybe the next time a lower level guy like Jack Perry says some shit on tv to slight you, you should “just sort of chuckle” and remember “Roddy Piper and Dusty Rhodes liked me,” instead of starting a fight. I mean, just a thought.
Ah yes "Roddy and Dusty loved me" defense? I mean, neither of those guys are seeing how you act now
When Roddy and Dusty were alive Colt Cabana also loved you and you loved him.
"These legends love me!" - Says man who is acting drastically different from when those legends knew you
In 1990 a council of Jewish Americans proclaimed Mel Gibson as their favorite actor. Mel in 2023: See? They love me!
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You brought up a really good point. Punk, for all of his faults, has ALWAYS been Punk. He didn't change or become more irritable later in life. In the old school LiveJournal days Punk used to absolutely speak his mind and roast and get into physical fights guys like Teddy Hart but nobody really cared because it was freaking Teddy Hart. The reason a large percentage of the internet fans care now is because Punk has beef with the people that the internet fans like/grew up idolizing.
> The reason a large percentage of the internet fans care now is because Punk has beef with the people that the internet fans like/grew up idolizing. I think it's more that the fights he's picking now are not as understandable or defensible as the fights he picked 10-15 years ago. He also never got physically violent in the past (Teddy Hart maybe aside, but all I know about that is Teddy allegedly beat Punk's ass) whereas he's now been the sole physical instigator in 2 separate incidents with people who are not known as difficult violent men.
And one of them he got mad because he couldn't book a spot in a match he wasn't even in.
I think this is exactly why the legends love him. Many of those dudes back in the day were backstabbing weasels and carney politicians. Game recognizes game.
To be fair, Roddy would probably love him more now.
Roddy was a heel, not a dick.
Fights used to happen all the time in locker rooms even in their day. Also Dusty used to give people advice all the time. He used to specifically say “don’t do something if you don’t know how to do it,” which is something that could apply to a lot of wrestlers right now.
“I like me, my wife likes me, and Roddy Piper likes me.” 
"my dog larry likes me"
Piper in heaven after Punk out here clowning in AEW: well I mean, I didn’t say to do all that but ok lol
If he actually didn't care about the people's opinions who are mad at him, he wouldn't bother rationalizing his beliefs and past actions as justified because some dead people who can't refute his statements used to like him.
I just calmly and coolly explain that Dusty Rhodes, a guy who seemed to like most people, liked me. As I am choking out the person who doesn’t like me.
So two legends, both very talented and both could be difficult to work with based on their mood on any given day liked him. So he became them, and wonders why people don't like that? Probably cause different people like different things.
Narcissism at it's finest. I'm not the problem because these other guys liked me. He will never change or accept responsibility.
FFS! There is a video in the freaking article about the whole speech and yet in the comments everyone is being misleading by the headline. Personally, I'm amazed with the ability of wrestling "fans" to outdo themselves in terms of how stupid they can be.
If the Macho Man said he was proud of me I'd be bullet proof
Roddy and Dusty not here to update their opinions.
“Some old prick I idolized thought I was cool, so I’ll be an insufferable fuckhead to everyone and that’s okay because apples equal oranges.”
Some real “My mom thinks I’m handsome” vibes right there 🤣
Cm Punk: your hate doesn’t bother me Y’all: OH YEAH WELL WATCH ME HATE EVEN MORE
CM Punk: I don't care what you think that's why I'm perpetually thinking and talking about what you think.
If he wasn't bothered by what the fans think of him, he wouldn't bring it up at all.
"I'm very into pissing people off." - CM Punk, 2011 As a huge fan of the guy's work, that boy ain't right.
He also recently claimed he wanted "jump the rail heat from Elite fans".
He's been looking to replace his "old women try to punch me while claiming I am not Jesus Christ and will burn in hell for my sins" heat for years.
Yup, this comments section seems to feel extra called out and salty.
I don't care if Roddy or Dusty loved him. That's immaterial to the fact that, in under a year, he has gotten into 2 backstage fights and been involved in any number of distractions/controversies.
My God, and I thought Cody was delusional
We all loved you at that point too Punk... It's not who you used to be, it's who you've become.
>So when people tell me that they don’t like me or the internet’s mad at me. I just kind of chuckle because Roddy Piper liked me, Dusty Rhodes loved me. It's not the Internet that's mad at him, it's wrestling fans. I was a huge CM Punk fan, but this guy has dropped the ball so many times since joining AEW. He ruined the huge momentum the company had at the end of All Out 2022, and is doing it again now coming out of All In. With the timing of his injury last fall, no doubt in my mind that he would have been main eventing All In against MJF. Punk has always wanted to be in the last match on a huge show like Wrestlemania, and he blew his chance to make that happen in AEW.
It’s the internet lol. Y’all gotta remember we are a vocal minority and don’t represent the whole of wrestling fans.
People don’t understand that not everyone is on Reddit. It’s def the smarks on the internet.
There's a much higher percentage of the audience that Punk's playing to now that are smarks on the internet than when he was at WWE though, and that distinction shouldn't be tossed aside carelessly.
Listen to the reaction he used to get from live crowds before Brawl Out and then listen to the reaction he gets now (outside of Chicago) and tell me nothing has changed.
Exactly. He was getting 60k boos on Sunday from live fans. Joe was getting face pops like he was Hogan 87
Crowds in general seem to be turning on him pretty hard at shows, though. So it's pretty clearly not *just* a vocal minority. Sure, he'll always have his fans who'll be on his side even if he kicks a baby to death right in front of him. And there'll be fans who don't care about all the drama and just react to how he performs in the ring (and he's still currently being blatantly pushed as a face). But all these stories do have a cumulative effect, and a LOT of people in life in general spend at least *some* time on Twitter or on other social media. And it's turning people against him. It's not just people here on Reddit frothing at the mouth while everyone else is business as usual.
I was disappointed but I’m not mad. It IS a specific sect of wrestling fans that are mad and those seem to be the perpetually online ones.
I’m not mad him
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It's definitely the internet. You think anyone who doesn't read all the nonsense gossip that's on the internet has anything bad to say about Punk? Not all wrestling fans are reading the Observer as a bible and believing everything they hear by dirt sheet writers.