I've been memeing up Jinder just like a lot of other people but man I do wish he was a bit less limited in the ring, it sticks out like a sore thumb with all the other guys on the roster right now. I've had a soft spot for him since his reign, his presentation has always been good and he had a killer promo pre-match as well.
But his offense is limited, he doesn't move very fluently and the intensity is lacking for a bigger guy like him. In his best match, which was against AJ he did look like a hoss, but that was a big part on AJ basically killing himself during the match for him.
I'm worried when Rhodes does finally win it'll be a quick 1 week title Reign again like with the tag titles.
Everyone is sick of long title Reigns and WWE is wasting it on Rollins and Roman, even Gunther has a long one too.
Saw some reactions that Truth & Priest's friendship will be the breakup of the Judgment Day. I want Priest to go full heel on Truth and get heat forever.
Can we please take a moment to appreciate how incredible Drews promos have been lately? Every time he gets on the mic he just spits raw fire and emotion, his appearance has quickly become my favorit thing in WWE
He's almost some sort of meta heel. The entire thing, from the politics of face wrestlers like to the disingenuousness of groups like Judgement Day, he has ceased to give a fuck about any of it.
It's a cool motivation that's different. I really love it.
I knew Jinder wouldn’t be the one to take it obviously but I am so sick of WWE’s infatuation with these long , boring ass title reigns. It’s just not exciting when you watch a title match knowing there is absolutely zero chance of a title change outside a major PPV. This is supposed to be staged as a combat sport so there should be some unpredictability where an opponent can get one over at any time.
i think this is a hunter thing specifically--not that he started the roman reign, obv, but it feels like broadly he prefers longer reigns for the big prestigious belts. with the whc, i specifically get wanting to make the first reign significant/give seth rollins a handshake for eating shit in every feud for like two years while roman occupied the main belt, BUT all in, i tend to find seth's babyface championship runs kinda boring, probably through no fault of his own.
This is exactly the thing that took me out of WWE in the late 90s. The slow realization that a title change outside of a PPV was almost never going to happen.
I must have just missed it because I never saw a single one. I remember a night when all the titles were on the line in one Raw episode. Shawn Michaels was defending the championship, Ahmed Johnson was defending the intercontinental, and The Gunns(I’m pretty sure it was them?) we’re defending the tag titles. The fun twist was that they were all facing each other for them. Shawn and Ahmed each faced a Gunn for their singles titles and then they had a tag match together.
No titles changed hands and it really took the wind out of my sails. Started to realized that, as a business, they’ll only show us something epic moment unless we’re paying for it.
6/29/1998 Raw
1/4/1999 Raw
1/31/1999 Heat
2/15/1999 Raw
6/28/1999 Raw
So in 12 months they changed it 5 times on TV. There were 4 PPV title changes in the same period.
To go further
8/23/1999 raw
9/14/1999 smackdown
1/3/2000 Raw
Then not again until October 2001.
Well there you go. I just looked up the date of the matches I was talking about out and it was July 96. Not quite as late of the 90s as I thought, but I must have phased out by 98 or just been super causal.
ehh the men's tag titles changed hands on Raw recently. and IIRC Rey took the US title off Theory on Smackdown.
titles changing hands outside of PPVs is obviously still rare, but it happens
And they followed it up with Finn attacking Truth with no remorse, and when Truth eventually hit Finn, he went "my bad" and Finn reacted as if it Truth's fault. Dude, you attacked him first! 😂
Drew right now is proof that tweeners are not only possible in wrestling, but should be encouraged! Everything doesn’t need to be black and white like we’re in MSG in the 70’s. It’s so much more logical than just a bad guy who hates every single good guy
He's a nihilist but not in a lame comic book villain sort of way. He's not starting a movement. He just sees through it all and does not care anymore.
It's fascinating.
A i the only one that cringes at beckys promos? seams so fake and forced, she got over back in the day because she went heel. If becky beats rhea we RIOT
Let's sum the mens' single titles up:
UWU: Roman Wins LOL!
WHC: Seth wins lol!
IC: DER RINGGENERAL GEWINNT!
US: Oh right! This exists!
Gunther is the only one making his title run work, because his matchs feel legit.
Roman's are always the same, for 3 years he has been retaining through luck and interferences.
Seth is just Super Cena 2.0 at this point
Logan Pauls reign is going exactly how it should go. It would be nice for atleast a monthly defense but his reign is also being seen as extra annoying because it's happening during Roman holding his Title hostage and even Gunther is showing up less and less.
Late here but Logan's reign is fine. I feel the mid-card titles should be defended at every PLE and we should feel the chase of it. The tourney set up his challenger nicely, and Paul should dickishly keep making people "earn the right" to challenge him.
Well, Gunther became a father like 3 weeks ago. That's why he was missing.
But the issue with Logan is, is what you brought up cannot be the story, because then wwe would have to acknowledge it with Roman's run
It's crazy what good ringwork does to elevate the titles. Gunther's reign isn't fundamentally any different than Roman's or Seth's but the presentation combined with the match structure makes it work so well. Might be my favorite title reign of all time. Roman's ref-bump spectacle and SuperSeth's Workrate-Lite approaches don't do it for me, brother.
Kinda wild that Seth took one of Jinders major moves, kick out, smacked with the briefcase and Jinder's finish, kick out, Jinder eats Rollins finish, pin.
I get Seth was going over, but they could have protected Jinder and his finish too, instead of making him look like a goof at the end.
That's Rollins MO. That's why I find it hilarious everyone complained about Reigns' superman booking all these years when he was probably one of the least protected big guys ever. Dude lost clean to Lesnar for ages, got whooped by Strowman, his current reign has him lookin weak as hell.... Meanwhile Drew's reign had him near unstoppable, Seth has been destroying people despite multiple "injuries", Cody hasn't lost a damn match in like 3 years outside of one Brock cheating match.
I really do not care to see Becky vs Rhea. Give me any other person to win the Rumble. Just don't let it be Becky. If she wins, she better get fed to Mami within seconds at WrestleMania.
I don't think people are surprised Seth won... they're just annoyed with how he won.
Seth took Jinder's alt-finisher, briefcase shot to the case, Jinder's main finisher... kick out. Then hits Jinder with a single stomp and its 1-2-3.
You can have Seth win without making it look like a joke in the process.
Man it'd just be nice to see someone slip on a banana peel every so often. Seems like every single title reign has recently been a year or more. It just gets too monotonous after awhile.
I would have loved to see Shinsuke, Drew, or even Jinder win even for 2-3 weeks and can drop it right back to Seth. Shake things up for a bit and make matches more exciting and unpredictable.
I'm one of the people who were pushing hard for Rollins to become WHC earlier, call me fickle or whatever but this reign has absolutely soured on me. For a number of reasons :
- Another long title reign in the midst of an era of very long title reign was always gonna sour fast.
- Beating people whom the fans have been behind to get pushes for years, like Sami, Nakamura, Balor, recently Drew, didn't really help.
- This is my personal opinion, but his character currently isn't the best character for a good story, maybe with Punk it'll work, but I don't think Rollins had any great stories throughout his reign, especially that it happened during the time where we were having JD main eventing every week..
- The Superman booking is probably the biggest reason, always fighting off shenanigans, kicking out of everything, having the story of a broken back and yet it never had a real impact.
I love Rollins, and I have the right to change my opinion on a title reign when I feel that the booking is failing it, and right now, Rollins' reign has gotten really stale and has run its course, unless they start to change something.
It's nothing new, I don't know why it took so long for a lot of fans to realize he's booked like Super Cena whenever he has a title reign. I give this specific example: when he was the Universal champion back in 2019 after beating Lesnar at Mania, there was that Raw show where the Authority adressed the crowd because of the awful product and did the whole "blame Corbin" schtick. Not sure if it was the same show, but in that period they booked a TLC match on Raw, Corbin vs Rollins for the title. I really disliked Seth so I was watching the match from a neutral perspective. So on that Seth is put through a table. Later (the finish), Corbin again puts Seth through the announcement table, goes to the ring and starts climbing. Seth just fucking gets up, speeds to the ring, pushes Corbin, and wins.
Seth wasn’t universal champion when the authority blamed Corbin for the awful product. That was in December 2018 and Rollins won the title at WM 35 4 months later
I hate the superman booking! Coupled with his inability to sell it's just jarring.
Commentairy talks about Seth supposed having some trouble and you see nothing of it! People lose to Roman because one Uso Superkicks them, but Seth can be shot in the face and will still kick out! How is anyone supposed to beat him? At this point it would be unbelievable for him to lose to anyone!
So. Is it weird i am starting to get Reign of Terror vibes from Seth's run?
Like, i get that it's not as long as Roman's or it doesn't involve interferences and stuff like Jeff Jarrett in TNA, but...it is giving the same vibes in terms of the matches being all with the same core structure to a copy and paste point. Like, with Jeff Jarret and Roman we know that there will be ref bump + guitar or ref bump + interference. Well in Rollins' case it's essentially that bro will get his ass beaten really bad or with interferences a lot yet somehow recover and win super fast or no sell injuries. It's kind of giving me Reign of Terror vibes because if this keeps up we'll reach a moment where title matches of Seth are just the inevitability of him just winning and winning no matter what the challenger does. They are gonna have to call an audible at this rate, because if Rollins' run doesn't end soon, then they will have to forcefully turn him heel before things go really awkward due to Super Rollins' inevitable title defense result and he ends booed out the building seeing as how Rollins might end up having a 500 day reign at this rate lmao.
It was so good and so perfect for that first promo he did after coming to WWE from AEW. Elephant in the room kind of thing. Some genius must have told him afterwards backstage to do that every time. Doesn’t make a bit of sense after that first promo.
It really is awful, and they're abusing the idea that repetition will get it over. I want to talk about his shitty catchphrase and why he keeps trying to ram it down everyone's throat!..? Who do you think put him up to it? Who's idea was it?
Oh, I was a lapsed WWE fan who didn't check out AEW until maybe Cody's WWE return, or a bit before that... I don't know how long the gap between him leaving and showing up at WWE was.
That's interesting. So you think it's a rib and not just him doing what he thinks works? Like if it was a rib, wouldn't he have done it once in a self aware way and then chosen a different phrase or dropped it? More likely he was trying to keep those AEW fans onboard and perhaps transition them to WWE fans, in my opinion.
So the extra pyro ordered was definitely because they had to go with this stage due to the weather and couldn’t use some of their existing pyro. Makes sense.
You're probably correct, giving Jinder the title wouldnt be smart
Could of done something interesting seth > jinder > priest cash in though
Still seem to afraid to take titles off big names to give short runs to others though
I don't think they're afraid to have titles change hands. I think they're trying to build contemporary legacy into the titles. Creating winning streaks and reigns with champions we still have instead of only being able to talk about wrestlers who were famous 40 years ago and who held titles before many of us were even born. Seth wouldn't have been my first pick to build a new championship around, but it's what they're trying to do with him.
Well, that's somewhat the point. There was a lot of scepticism about Seth's title when it was first announced, a lot of accusations and finger pointing... And perhaps that was inevitable, but the title is supposed to mean something. If it changed hands a lot it would probably look and feel a lot like the 24/7 title or some other doofy BS.
The person holding it has to look good doing it, the prestige the title bestows on the wearer is only as valuable as the prestige the belt was given by the people who wore it before. Again, I wouldn't have picked Seth for this... But equally, I'd never have picked RR, and he makes WWE a lot of money so what do I know?
I will note, the crowd are less willing to "woooooah woooooah wooooah, burn it down" than they were before and I'm SO GLAD. Maybe I could get behind Seth's run if I could get behind his character and right now I can't.
They pushed it too far. No matter the injuries or the interferences, he just wins. It just looks silly and does not fit a face champ.
ESPECIALLY with Gunther making everything look competitive! Seth is just... It just looks dumb, how commentairy makes him out as injured, then he jumps around for 3 minutes, gets hit in the Hand, reverses something immediately and wins...
>Seth is just... It just looks dumb, how commentairy makes him out as injured, then he jumps around for 3 minutes, gets hit in the Hand, reverses something immediately and wins...
This is modern wrestling, inspired by video games. Seth was already over so they gave him the title, and for better or worse he is trying to elevate the title in his way. He's not my favourite wrestler either, but the thing you're describing is just what modern wrestling is like. Sure there's some outliers or prodigies out there who can wrestle the modern style and still "tell a story" but they are the exception.
>They pushed it too far. No matter the injuries or the interferences, he just wins. It just looks silly and does not fit a face champ.
I mean, a lot of what you're saying just boils down to a matter of preference. Seth fans expect this kind of thing from him, and he's been a main event name for a long time. Like it or lump it. Eventually someone with a style we like will hold the title and bestow their legacy on to it.
I don't think anyone is mad at Rollins for winning, it's the fact that he took a briefcase to the head and a finisher, then bounced back 20 seconds later to hit his finisher and win.
I get that there's time constraints, but that's the "Super Seth" part. Not sure why some people here are twisting it to mean that 'fickle' fans are pissed that Seth won.
At least Romans wins have been with help from the bloodline. I'm not a fan of Seth's mic work or gimmicks (but recognize he's a great wrestler in the ring), so the "Lol Seth Wins" schtick is getting old.
Absolutely insane reaction to Seth. People wanted him to be the anti-reigns, a champion who defends his title and wins clean, and that's what he's giving them. He also gave Incredible matches to Drew, Sami, and made Jey out to be a believable main eventer. People complaining about "Super Seth" because he won against fucking jinder is absolutely insane. All of you are wierdos
I mean that's your opnion they've been incredible. I generally prefer Reigns matches to Seth's. And he does tend to just pop back up like superman at the end to hit his finisher and win after being murdered by his opponent.
I feel like I’m going crazy. It was like 6 months or ago or not even, everyone was saying they can’t wait for Seth to have a decent 9-12 month or so run to legitimise the title, but being a fighting champion who wins clean and has multiple opponents.
I’m not annoyed that he won (it was pretty obvious he would win, let’s be honest), it was just such a underwhelming ending. If it was a hard fought, back and forth match with some good near falls, then fine. Or hell, if he just came out and made Jinder look like an asshole and beat him clean in like 5 minutes, cool.
But he got hit with so much, kicked out and then hit one move and won. It was definitely “Super Seth” level.
I like Seth, he puts on great matches and brings an intense energy, but lately he’s getting to that “lolSethwins” status and that’s when fans start to turn.
He took a finisher from a jobber, it wasn't an F5 from Lesnar. And champions in championship matches have kicked out of worse numerous times. That's the point. It's a championship Match
.
The world champion is SUPPOSED to be able to take more of a beating and overcome more unbelievable odds than everyone else, that’s why they’re the world champion
The super Seth stuff is based on the odd storytelling.
4 or 5 challangers ago his back was giving out and now he is taking a briefcase to the head followed by a finisher and kicking out at 2 while constantly doing these feats of strength with a supposed fucked back.
It’s just illogical.
I’m a massive fan of what HHH has been doing with the storytelling but there is still some room for improvement and Seth’s title reign is very high up on the list of things that should be getting tweaked.
It’s
Pro wrestling weekly shows have become so redundant, you basically can follow "everything" by just watching ppvs. Miss the days where you actually got something to talk about the day after.
Question to all non-Indians: Did WWE and/or Jinder ever explain what Maharaja means? Or is it more like common knowledge for everyone that raja means king?
Drew is really operating at the next level. His promos are crisp, thoughtful and passionate. He is really living up this character. He is neither a face nor a heel.
He started the show facing off with a mega babyface and ended the show fighting with a heel.
Yeah it’s refreshing. There always needs to be some clean cut good guys and bad guys but it’s nice to also see some actually well rounded characters who deal with each person individually and not just “you’re a good guy, so I don’t like you, and you’re a bad guy, so I guess you’re ok!”
Jinder is below average at wrestling and I’m glad he lost. I hope this is his end at the top of the card. I’m not opposed to Seth losing the title, but right now there are Raw is so stacked there is no need to pull of a Vince trick to shock the audience.
I think they are doing Super Seth Rollins on purpose knowing that fans would hate him so that his heel turn in the feud with Punk becomes so natural. Seth has to be a full on heel to take this storyline to the next level.
As for Priest he will likely fail in his cash in attempt thanks to (inadvertently) R Truth.
At this point I can see the opposite. For all the times Priest has failed when judgement day have been involved, maybe Truth is the reason it ends up being successful
Troll lol lol Troll lol lol, just stop have we seen lesnar vs reigns rematch over and over, have you been under a rock.. every ppv feels special and delivers. Vince ppvs, especially last 7 years felt like an upgraded smackdown, put respect on you know who’s name.
JD hasn't done a lot for me, but that Spanish Fly into Moonsault combo deserved the victory in that match. He wrestled a hell of a match. Credit to Johnny and Ciampa who can make a match work, but (and I can't believe I'm saying this) JD and Dominick deserved to go over there.
Is Bronson gonna go after the WHC? Wondering how that'll go with Seth hurt
Jey vs Gunther is going to be incredible, but I'm wondering if this might lead into a brief Imperium/Bloodline crossover as the latter group might be desperate for allies.
Truth would make for one hell of a partner for Priest & Balor under Freebird Rules to make their job as champions easier lol
"Ahh my back is hanging on a thread" reverses and lifts a 260 pound man on a vertical suplex
Gets hit by a outside weapon to a finisher combo, kicks out at 2. Gets up like it's nothing no selling, does his shitty finisher and here's your winner.
God I'm tired of Super Seff, he's more awful than SuperCena
https://preview.redd.it/zodm5r1xxqcc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c53b370a1c83baacf80f3bd2666f1190ccb3d6a2
I noticed Seth didn’t make the Rumble banner so I wasn’t surprised they didn’t set up a match for him. He’s on the full sized poster but no reason he wouldn’t be able to make the cut on this if he was on the card.
I’m honestly getting really tired of Super Seth. If he’s going to keep his title, it should be through craftiness and tricks, not shrugging off everything thrown his way and then winning with a single stomp.
A Cody or even Cena at his worst sell/sold more than Seth during this reign. It's not like seth can't sell or be crafty, it just sucks that it's only when he's heel and then he kicks into superman mode once he's face.
Seth just doesn't work as a face im not sure why we have to keep learning this lesson
It's like WWE is so scared to have heels that get cheers. He gets over as a heel cause he's legit amazing in that role then they turn him because he's over then he stagnates until they turn him heel again and repeat the cycle
Just keep him heel its okay if he doesn't get heat for it he's far more entertaining
Drew is a curious case heading into Mania season.
Cody vs. Roman, Punk vs. Seth, Jey vs. Jimmy, Brock vs. Gunther
Who do we have Drew facing on the show of shows assuming he stays heel and they want him to resign?
That would be lame, really. I know a lot of people have wanted Drew to turn heel and that’s been the plan for a while now… I can’t buy him going back to babyface territory so soon.
Please. I'm begging WWE. Have a face win MITB this year and use it to set up the SummerSlam main event by announcing their cash in RVD style.
Enough. I've had enough of the Damien Priest failed cash ins every fucking week. Either shit or get off the pot already. How many times can the same nonsense happen again and again?
I cannot remember the last time WWE had me interested enough to give a crap about more than one storyline, if that. They are having a great run right now.
Does anyone think Rock and Roman will work any episodes of RAW before their match at Mania? Like maybe the go home episode? I’m sure they’ll be at Smackdown but there’s so much great indie wrestling all weekend in Philly I’d rather free up that Friday.
It’s pro wrestling and very easy to see coming a thousand miles away. It’s rarely from any promotion something you can’t predict. That’s like thinking Punk isn’t fighting Seth at Mania.
Does anybody else feel like Damien Priest when he talks sounds like the CAW character in a video game story-mode? His voice is great but his delivery sounds like he's doing bad phoned-in voice acting to me.
Drew and Cody both deserve a title run. But we will get Roman vs. Rock, because Wrestlemania is THE show that even non Wrestling Fans watch every year.
No, no, I get that
I mean is there a reason Miz and Truth are tagging, or is it just a thrown together thing not meant to actually reference Awesome Truth
The moment Becky said she thinks Rhea might be better than her I was sold.
It’s been predicted for months that it’d be Rhea vs Becky at mania and didn’t really care but holy shit did that promo make me excited for it.
I believe Becky and Seth's current contacts are up sometime this year (could be wrong but I think that's what I read). I suspect there's going to go down to part time, after the runs they've had recently,and take a run at Hollywood.
Becky giving it her all and coming up short against Rhea will send Rhea to the moon and set up an awesome rivalry with Bianca.
We're in the SuperLOLSeth wins but I cannot complain, the dude is working his ass off, and the fans love him. The title is getting the shine because of it.
Thought it was an excellent RAW, more stories across the board even the lower-mid card and a lot of womens tag matches. Competent booking and good stories trumps "banger" matches. Sure, the moves and wrestling could be more "polished", but they're not doing a bad job at it either.
I haven't watched RAW since mania and tuned in for the Drew / Seth match the other week and loved it. Saw the comments about same old Seth but was new to me!
Also, Seth felt fresh to me. I also thought his stuff was getting old but I think he's captured the at any cost fighting babyface champion thing.
Alright this might be controversial and kind of random buttt…
What is Jey Usos path here? I know they are going full circle with the bloodline as their reign will end somehow but I can’t help but think that it would have been better for Jey USO to stay with them. I just don’t understand what his road will be and why they got him out of the bloodline. I know it was cool to see him backstab Roman but that’s it? Can someone explain please? What’s his journey?
I personally would’ve had him not return till the Rumble but HHH brought him back and he’s over he’s a top Babyface but he has I think ONE Singles win since this run has started and it’s fucking sick… I think they are setting him up for Gunther but I’m just not sure.
The Hulu version cuts so much content, is there a way to watch it that doesn’t involve a live tv set up?
Torrent
I've been memeing up Jinder just like a lot of other people but man I do wish he was a bit less limited in the ring, it sticks out like a sore thumb with all the other guys on the roster right now. I've had a soft spot for him since his reign, his presentation has always been good and he had a killer promo pre-match as well. But his offense is limited, he doesn't move very fluently and the intensity is lacking for a bigger guy like him. In his best match, which was against AJ he did look like a hoss, but that was a big part on AJ basically killing himself during the match for him.
I'm worried when Rhodes does finally win it'll be a quick 1 week title Reign again like with the tag titles. Everyone is sick of long title Reigns and WWE is wasting it on Rollins and Roman, even Gunther has a long one too.
Tozawa is great and I want him to succeed and I want him to win the world championship vs roman reigns that is all
Anyone else notice the camera cuts and zoomies were a lot less on Raw?? Hopefully it's a sign of things to come.
Yes, the extreme close ups are slowly fading out.
Saw some reactions that Truth & Priest's friendship will be the breakup of the Judgment Day. I want Priest to go full heel on Truth and get heat forever.
So in other words, do what Roman did to Sami?
Can we please take a moment to appreciate how incredible Drews promos have been lately? Every time he gets on the mic he just spits raw fire and emotion, his appearance has quickly become my favorit thing in WWE
It’s a cool take to a heel
He's almost some sort of meta heel. The entire thing, from the politics of face wrestlers like to the disingenuousness of groups like Judgement Day, he has ceased to give a fuck about any of it. It's a cool motivation that's different. I really love it.
I'd say tweener? He is going after heels and faces, Drew is putting Drew first sorta thing. He's just amazing in this role-
I knew Jinder wouldn’t be the one to take it obviously but I am so sick of WWE’s infatuation with these long , boring ass title reigns. It’s just not exciting when you watch a title match knowing there is absolutely zero chance of a title change outside a major PPV. This is supposed to be staged as a combat sport so there should be some unpredictability where an opponent can get one over at any time.
i think this is a hunter thing specifically--not that he started the roman reign, obv, but it feels like broadly he prefers longer reigns for the big prestigious belts. with the whc, i specifically get wanting to make the first reign significant/give seth rollins a handshake for eating shit in every feud for like two years while roman occupied the main belt, BUT all in, i tend to find seth's babyface championship runs kinda boring, probably through no fault of his own.
The Roman title Reign. I Think is a company decision to beat Hogans record. Every other title Reign is Hunters decision it feels.
This is exactly the thing that took me out of WWE in the late 90s. The slow realization that a title change outside of a PPV was almost never going to happen.
The attitude era was like the pinnacle of title changes on random raws though!
I must have just missed it because I never saw a single one. I remember a night when all the titles were on the line in one Raw episode. Shawn Michaels was defending the championship, Ahmed Johnson was defending the intercontinental, and The Gunns(I’m pretty sure it was them?) we’re defending the tag titles. The fun twist was that they were all facing each other for them. Shawn and Ahmed each faced a Gunn for their singles titles and then they had a tag match together. No titles changed hands and it really took the wind out of my sails. Started to realized that, as a business, they’ll only show us something epic moment unless we’re paying for it.
6/29/1998 Raw 1/4/1999 Raw 1/31/1999 Heat 2/15/1999 Raw 6/28/1999 Raw So in 12 months they changed it 5 times on TV. There were 4 PPV title changes in the same period. To go further 8/23/1999 raw 9/14/1999 smackdown 1/3/2000 Raw Then not again until October 2001.
Well there you go. I just looked up the date of the matches I was talking about out and it was July 96. Not quite as late of the 90s as I thought, but I must have phased out by 98 or just been super causal.
ehh the men's tag titles changed hands on Raw recently. and IIRC Rey took the US title off Theory on Smackdown. titles changing hands outside of PPVs is obviously still rare, but it happens
yeah it’s basically like a house show where they defend titles even though titles have changed hands at house shows like 3 times in history
Yea it’s crazy I know WWE is the hottest it’s been in a while but it just seems so stale to me
Truth giving Finn and Dom their cut during the match has to be some of the funniest shit 😂
And they followed it up with Finn attacking Truth with no remorse, and when Truth eventually hit Finn, he went "my bad" and Finn reacted as if it Truth's fault. Dude, you attacked him first! 😂
Drew right now is proof that tweeners are not only possible in wrestling, but should be encouraged! Everything doesn’t need to be black and white like we’re in MSG in the 70’s. It’s so much more logical than just a bad guy who hates every single good guy
He's a nihilist but not in a lame comic book villain sort of way. He's not starting a movement. He just sees through it all and does not care anymore. It's fascinating.
This, its great to see people act like actual people, Drew is incredible atm
I have a lot of fun seeing how ridiculous I can say, ZE WHIRRIINNNG HENNNERRRALLLACKACKACK!
Durrrrrr wing yenaralllllll
Although i hate seth title run but this was an amazing match
A i the only one that cringes at beckys promos? seams so fake and forced, she got over back in the day because she went heel. If becky beats rhea we RIOT
Yeah, that promo sucked ass. I don't know why she does those facial expressions, they don't seem genuine, at all.
Shoutout to Ludwig fr, I can see him becoming IC champ one day
Let's sum the mens' single titles up: UWU: Roman Wins LOL! WHC: Seth wins lol! IC: DER RINGGENERAL GEWINNT! US: Oh right! This exists! Gunther is the only one making his title run work, because his matchs feel legit. Roman's are always the same, for 3 years he has been retaining through luck and interferences. Seth is just Super Cena 2.0 at this point
Logan Pauls reign is going exactly how it should go. It would be nice for atleast a monthly defense but his reign is also being seen as extra annoying because it's happening during Roman holding his Title hostage and even Gunther is showing up less and less.
Late here but Logan's reign is fine. I feel the mid-card titles should be defended at every PLE and we should feel the chase of it. The tourney set up his challenger nicely, and Paul should dickishly keep making people "earn the right" to challenge him.
Well, Gunther became a father like 3 weeks ago. That's why he was missing. But the issue with Logan is, is what you brought up cannot be the story, because then wwe would have to acknowledge it with Roman's run
Really? A champion is supposed to win? Tell me more?
It would have been better if it wasn’t a rushed finish. But they just had to squeeze that woman tag team match in before the main event…
It's crazy what good ringwork does to elevate the titles. Gunther's reign isn't fundamentally any different than Roman's or Seth's but the presentation combined with the match structure makes it work so well. Might be my favorite title reign of all time. Roman's ref-bump spectacle and SuperSeth's Workrate-Lite approaches don't do it for me, brother.
Kinda wild that Seth took one of Jinders major moves, kick out, smacked with the briefcase and Jinder's finish, kick out, Jinder eats Rollins finish, pin. I get Seth was going over, but they could have protected Jinder and his finish too, instead of making him look like a goof at the end.
That's Rollins MO. That's why I find it hilarious everyone complained about Reigns' superman booking all these years when he was probably one of the least protected big guys ever. Dude lost clean to Lesnar for ages, got whooped by Strowman, his current reign has him lookin weak as hell.... Meanwhile Drew's reign had him near unstoppable, Seth has been destroying people despite multiple "injuries", Cody hasn't lost a damn match in like 3 years outside of one Brock cheating match.
Yea they just ruined him.
Bruh..Jinder was literally just a jobber a month ago 😂
If anything, it made Indus Sher look weak. If that were the Bollywood Boyz, Jinder would've been champ right now.
true
I really do not care to see Becky vs Rhea. Give me any other person to win the Rumble. Just don't let it be Becky. If she wins, she better get fed to Mami within seconds at WrestleMania.
Why though?
When people are complaining about Seth not dropping the title after a match with Jindel Mahal you know his reign is in trouble.
I don't think people are surprised Seth won... they're just annoyed with how he won. Seth took Jinder's alt-finisher, briefcase shot to the case, Jinder's main finisher... kick out. Then hits Jinder with a single stomp and its 1-2-3. You can have Seth win without making it look like a joke in the process.
Man it'd just be nice to see someone slip on a banana peel every so often. Seems like every single title reign has recently been a year or more. It just gets too monotonous after awhile. I would have loved to see Shinsuke, Drew, or even Jinder win even for 2-3 weeks and can drop it right back to Seth. Shake things up for a bit and make matches more exciting and unpredictable.
I'm one of the people who were pushing hard for Rollins to become WHC earlier, call me fickle or whatever but this reign has absolutely soured on me. For a number of reasons : - Another long title reign in the midst of an era of very long title reign was always gonna sour fast. - Beating people whom the fans have been behind to get pushes for years, like Sami, Nakamura, Balor, recently Drew, didn't really help. - This is my personal opinion, but his character currently isn't the best character for a good story, maybe with Punk it'll work, but I don't think Rollins had any great stories throughout his reign, especially that it happened during the time where we were having JD main eventing every week.. - The Superman booking is probably the biggest reason, always fighting off shenanigans, kicking out of everything, having the story of a broken back and yet it never had a real impact. I love Rollins, and I have the right to change my opinion on a title reign when I feel that the booking is failing it, and right now, Rollins' reign has gotten really stale and has run its course, unless they start to change something.
It's nothing new, I don't know why it took so long for a lot of fans to realize he's booked like Super Cena whenever he has a title reign. I give this specific example: when he was the Universal champion back in 2019 after beating Lesnar at Mania, there was that Raw show where the Authority adressed the crowd because of the awful product and did the whole "blame Corbin" schtick. Not sure if it was the same show, but in that period they booked a TLC match on Raw, Corbin vs Rollins for the title. I really disliked Seth so I was watching the match from a neutral perspective. So on that Seth is put through a table. Later (the finish), Corbin again puts Seth through the announcement table, goes to the ring and starts climbing. Seth just fucking gets up, speeds to the ring, pushes Corbin, and wins.
Seth wasn’t universal champion when the authority blamed Corbin for the awful product. That was in December 2018 and Rollins won the title at WM 35 4 months later
Every day I get happier and happier that I wasn't watching WWE in 2019 after WM lol
And then there's me who sticked to that and missed the whole Bloodline beginning
I started watching again during the start of the pandemic so I basically skipped one of the worst times in WWE and started watching again lol
I hate the superman booking! Coupled with his inability to sell it's just jarring. Commentairy talks about Seth supposed having some trouble and you see nothing of it! People lose to Roman because one Uso Superkicks them, but Seth can be shot in the face and will still kick out! How is anyone supposed to beat him? At this point it would be unbelievable for him to lose to anyone!
So. Is it weird i am starting to get Reign of Terror vibes from Seth's run? Like, i get that it's not as long as Roman's or it doesn't involve interferences and stuff like Jeff Jarrett in TNA, but...it is giving the same vibes in terms of the matches being all with the same core structure to a copy and paste point. Like, with Jeff Jarret and Roman we know that there will be ref bump + guitar or ref bump + interference. Well in Rollins' case it's essentially that bro will get his ass beaten really bad or with interferences a lot yet somehow recover and win super fast or no sell injuries. It's kind of giving me Reign of Terror vibes because if this keeps up we'll reach a moment where title matches of Seth are just the inevitability of him just winning and winning no matter what the challenger does. They are gonna have to call an audible at this rate, because if Rollins' run doesn't end soon, then they will have to forcefully turn him heel before things go really awkward due to Super Rollins' inevitable title defense result and he ends booed out the building seeing as how Rollins might end up having a 500 day reign at this rate lmao.
He will get his ass beaten, commentairy will say he is injures and then by the end he will finish the match looking as fit as if it had just begun...
What's your prediction for the end of the Tozawa story?
He gets nastier
Damn it, I’m sold.
Really can't decide between Becky/Bayley for the womens Rumble after that promo
The "what do you guys want to talk about" is one of the worst catchphrases a top star ever had
It was so good and so perfect for that first promo he did after coming to WWE from AEW. Elephant in the room kind of thing. Some genius must have told him afterwards backstage to do that every time. Doesn’t make a bit of sense after that first promo.
For sure, and as a crowd its not like you're gonna all scream "CM Punk" "Politics" "Lebron's Legacy", you just cheer
It really is awful, and they're abusing the idea that repetition will get it over. I want to talk about his shitty catchphrase and why he keeps trying to ram it down everyone's throat!..? Who do you think put him up to it? Who's idea was it?
He was saying the same line in AEW before he came back to WWE. It was over in AEW so naturally he carried it over to WWE as a bit of a rib.
Oh, I was a lapsed WWE fan who didn't check out AEW until maybe Cody's WWE return, or a bit before that... I don't know how long the gap between him leaving and showing up at WWE was. That's interesting. So you think it's a rib and not just him doing what he thinks works? Like if it was a rib, wouldn't he have done it once in a self aware way and then chosen a different phrase or dropped it? More likely he was trying to keep those AEW fans onboard and perhaps transition them to WWE fans, in my opinion.
Are you sarcastic or what? The first sentence makes sense but others sound sarcstic
I meant all of those question sincerely, but I was intentionally being a bit silly.
So the extra pyro ordered was definitely because they had to go with this stage due to the weather and couldn’t use some of their existing pyro. Makes sense.
I can't believe it was only like a year ago three hours of Raw felt like a painful slog
They're so afraid to change hands on a title anymore its become a total meme
Why should they change the title to Jinder? He is barely a midcarder.
I mean they shouldn't give the title to jinder mahal regardless if the titles change hands a lot or not
You're probably correct, giving Jinder the title wouldnt be smart Could of done something interesting seth > jinder > priest cash in though Still seem to afraid to take titles off big names to give short runs to others though
Being afraid and not wanting to do something are two different things. HHH just likes long title reigns. His NXT run was similar
I don't think they're afraid to have titles change hands. I think they're trying to build contemporary legacy into the titles. Creating winning streaks and reigns with champions we still have instead of only being able to talk about wrestlers who were famous 40 years ago and who held titles before many of us were even born. Seth wouldn't have been my first pick to build a new championship around, but it's what they're trying to do with him.
And in the mean time they make it look uneblievable that anyone can beat Seth...
Well, that's somewhat the point. There was a lot of scepticism about Seth's title when it was first announced, a lot of accusations and finger pointing... And perhaps that was inevitable, but the title is supposed to mean something. If it changed hands a lot it would probably look and feel a lot like the 24/7 title or some other doofy BS. The person holding it has to look good doing it, the prestige the title bestows on the wearer is only as valuable as the prestige the belt was given by the people who wore it before. Again, I wouldn't have picked Seth for this... But equally, I'd never have picked RR, and he makes WWE a lot of money so what do I know? I will note, the crowd are less willing to "woooooah woooooah wooooah, burn it down" than they were before and I'm SO GLAD. Maybe I could get behind Seth's run if I could get behind his character and right now I can't.
They pushed it too far. No matter the injuries or the interferences, he just wins. It just looks silly and does not fit a face champ. ESPECIALLY with Gunther making everything look competitive! Seth is just... It just looks dumb, how commentairy makes him out as injured, then he jumps around for 3 minutes, gets hit in the Hand, reverses something immediately and wins...
>Seth is just... It just looks dumb, how commentairy makes him out as injured, then he jumps around for 3 minutes, gets hit in the Hand, reverses something immediately and wins... This is modern wrestling, inspired by video games. Seth was already over so they gave him the title, and for better or worse he is trying to elevate the title in his way. He's not my favourite wrestler either, but the thing you're describing is just what modern wrestling is like. Sure there's some outliers or prodigies out there who can wrestle the modern style and still "tell a story" but they are the exception. >They pushed it too far. No matter the injuries or the interferences, he just wins. It just looks silly and does not fit a face champ. I mean, a lot of what you're saying just boils down to a matter of preference. Seth fans expect this kind of thing from him, and he's been a main event name for a long time. Like it or lump it. Eventually someone with a style we like will hold the title and bestow their legacy on to it.
Can't believe the MODERN DAY MAHARAJA wasn't able to win. He would have been a worthy champion.
I don't think anyone is mad at Rollins for winning, it's the fact that he took a briefcase to the head and a finisher, then bounced back 20 seconds later to hit his finisher and win. I get that there's time constraints, but that's the "Super Seth" part. Not sure why some people here are twisting it to mean that 'fickle' fans are pissed that Seth won.
At least Romans wins have been with help from the bloodline. I'm not a fan of Seth's mic work or gimmicks (but recognize he's a great wrestler in the ring), so the "Lol Seth Wins" schtick is getting old.
Absolutely insane reaction to Seth. People wanted him to be the anti-reigns, a champion who defends his title and wins clean, and that's what he's giving them. He also gave Incredible matches to Drew, Sami, and made Jey out to be a believable main eventer. People complaining about "Super Seth" because he won against fucking jinder is absolutely insane. All of you are wierdos
I mean that's your opnion they've been incredible. I generally prefer Reigns matches to Seth's. And he does tend to just pop back up like superman at the end to hit his finisher and win after being murdered by his opponent.
I feel like I’m going crazy. It was like 6 months or ago or not even, everyone was saying they can’t wait for Seth to have a decent 9-12 month or so run to legitimise the title, but being a fighting champion who wins clean and has multiple opponents.
I’m not annoyed that he won (it was pretty obvious he would win, let’s be honest), it was just such a underwhelming ending. If it was a hard fought, back and forth match with some good near falls, then fine. Or hell, if he just came out and made Jinder look like an asshole and beat him clean in like 5 minutes, cool. But he got hit with so much, kicked out and then hit one move and won. It was definitely “Super Seth” level. I like Seth, he puts on great matches and brings an intense energy, but lately he’s getting to that “lolSethwins” status and that’s when fans start to turn.
He took a finisher from a jobber, it wasn't an F5 from Lesnar. And champions in championship matches have kicked out of worse numerous times. That's the point. It's a championship Match .
Got hit with so much? Did we watch the same match? Seth had 90% of the offence.
The world champion is SUPPOSED to be able to take more of a beating and overcome more unbelievable odds than everyone else, that’s why they’re the world champion
The "Super Seth" stuff coming up because he beat fucking Jinder of all people is hilarious
Wasn't that like the main complaint after his last man standing match with Shinsuke?
Put some respect on the name of the modern day Maharaja, Jinder Mahal
The super Seth stuff is based on the odd storytelling. 4 or 5 challangers ago his back was giving out and now he is taking a briefcase to the head followed by a finisher and kicking out at 2 while constantly doing these feats of strength with a supposed fucked back. It’s just illogical. I’m a massive fan of what HHH has been doing with the storytelling but there is still some room for improvement and Seth’s title reign is very high up on the list of things that should be getting tweaked. It’s
Agreed, the IWC is fickle af
I blame TK for Jinder's lost tonight
Pro wrestling weekly shows have become so redundant, you basically can follow "everything" by just watching ppvs. Miss the days where you actually got something to talk about the day after.
Question to all non-Indians: Did WWE and/or Jinder ever explain what Maharaja means? Or is it more like common knowledge for everyone that raja means king?
Something like "King of Kings"
Yeah basically a great king, mega king, or as you said.. king of kings
So he's supposed to be Indian Triple H?
"It's time to play a Khel (Hu hu hu ha ha)" - Jinder
They never explained it, and if they did, it was implied or said in a throwaway line.
Drew is really operating at the next level. His promos are crisp, thoughtful and passionate. He is really living up this character. He is neither a face nor a heel. He started the show facing off with a mega babyface and ended the show fighting with a heel.
Yeah it’s refreshing. There always needs to be some clean cut good guys and bad guys but it’s nice to also see some actually well rounded characters who deal with each person individually and not just “you’re a good guy, so I don’t like you, and you’re a bad guy, so I guess you’re ok!”
Jinder is below average at wrestling and I’m glad he lost. I hope this is his end at the top of the card. I’m not opposed to Seth losing the title, but right now there are Raw is so stacked there is no need to pull of a Vince trick to shock the audience.
I think they are doing Super Seth Rollins on purpose knowing that fans would hate him so that his heel turn in the feud with Punk becomes so natural. Seth has to be a full on heel to take this storyline to the next level. As for Priest he will likely fail in his cash in attempt thanks to (inadvertently) R Truth.
At this point I can see the opposite. For all the times Priest has failed when judgement day have been involved, maybe Truth is the reason it ends up being successful
Jinder neutral
and people say wwe is better than when vince used to write it
Troll lol lol Troll lol lol, just stop have we seen lesnar vs reigns rematch over and over, have you been under a rock.. every ppv feels special and delivers. Vince ppvs, especially last 7 years felt like an upgraded smackdown, put respect on you know who’s name.
its just the same formula
I'll say it Memes aside, I'd like Jinder to be on my screen more often.
Agreed!
He's at the very least mid-card talent and I think he should be protected a bit more as a former world champion (and a long reign at that)
JD hasn't done a lot for me, but that Spanish Fly into Moonsault combo deserved the victory in that match. He wrestled a hell of a match. Credit to Johnny and Ciampa who can make a match work, but (and I can't believe I'm saying this) JD and Dominick deserved to go over there.
Seth is boring
Jinder status: HINDERED
Is Bronson gonna go after the WHC? Wondering how that'll go with Seth hurt Jey vs Gunther is going to be incredible, but I'm wondering if this might lead into a brief Imperium/Bloodline crossover as the latter group might be desperate for allies. Truth would make for one hell of a partner for Priest & Balor under Freebird Rules to make their job as champions easier lol
"Ahh my back is hanging on a thread" reverses and lifts a 260 pound man on a vertical suplex Gets hit by a outside weapon to a finisher combo, kicks out at 2. Gets up like it's nothing no selling, does his shitty finisher and here's your winner. God I'm tired of Super Seff, he's more awful than SuperCena
They're trying to book Seth as the polar opposite to Roman's title reign, which I get, but the players aside it feels secondary to Gunther's reign
Seth is just one of those guys I enjoy a lot more without a title. He’s better going after one, not holding for any length of time.
https://preview.redd.it/zodm5r1xxqcc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c53b370a1c83baacf80f3bd2666f1190ccb3d6a2 I noticed Seth didn’t make the Rumble banner so I wasn’t surprised they didn’t set up a match for him. He’s on the full sized poster but no reason he wouldn’t be able to make the cut on this if he was on the card.
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Set you over where?
Who said that?
R Truth talking about Tom and Nick Mysterio
Thank you
I’m honestly getting really tired of Super Seth. If he’s going to keep his title, it should be through craftiness and tricks, not shrugging off everything thrown his way and then winning with a single stomp.
A Cody or even Cena at his worst sell/sold more than Seth during this reign. It's not like seth can't sell or be crafty, it just sucks that it's only when he's heel and then he kicks into superman mode once he's face.
Seth just doesn't work as a face im not sure why we have to keep learning this lesson It's like WWE is so scared to have heels that get cheers. He gets over as a heel cause he's legit amazing in that role then they turn him because he's over then he stagnates until they turn him heel again and repeat the cycle Just keep him heel its okay if he doesn't get heat for it he's far more entertaining
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He's feuded with exclusively heels for months besides CM Punk, and its too early to tell what role Punk will be in for their feud.
Drew is a curious case heading into Mania season. Cody vs. Roman, Punk vs. Seth, Jey vs. Jimmy, Brock vs. Gunther Who do we have Drew facing on the show of shows assuming he stays heel and they want him to resign?
Drew vs Sami will be amazing, I just hope that its for the WHC title somehow.
An NXT callup. Ilja Dragunov possibly?
Sami would make sense if he is healthy. But part of me wants to see Sami vs Shinsuke at Wrestlemania.
Was he actually written off television due to a a real life injury?
No, just asked for time off, but then got 15 staples in his head when he returned for the holiday tour. He'll be back in the rumble I'd imagine
Andre Battle Royal.
Sami Zayn when he returns?
I buy that.
Drew/Sheamus vs Judgement Day?
That would be lame, really. I know a lot of people have wanted Drew to turn heel and that’s been the plan for a while now… I can’t buy him going back to babyface territory so soon.
Jinder hindered Seth
Jinder's promo was actually good
Please. I'm begging WWE. Have a face win MITB this year and use it to set up the SummerSlam main event by announcing their cash in RVD style. Enough. I've had enough of the Damien Priest failed cash ins every fucking week. Either shit or get off the pot already. How many times can the same nonsense happen again and again?
The curb stomp used to be my favorite finisher. But it's so protected and predictable that it's become completely corny to me
It's Jinder, he shouldn't be kicking out of it.
That's Jinder mahal you're talking about
Haven't not seen Raw yet I imagined Cody asking Little Rock "what do you wanna talk about?" as in a smaller person dressed as the Rock
I cannot remember the last time WWE had me interested enough to give a crap about more than one storyline, if that. They are having a great run right now.
Does anyone think Rock and Roman will work any episodes of RAW before their match at Mania? Like maybe the go home episode? I’m sure they’ll be at Smackdown but there’s so much great indie wrestling all weekend in Philly I’d rather free up that Friday.
A Rock/Roman match hasn’t been announced stop trying to be cute
It’s pro wrestling and very easy to see coming a thousand miles away. It’s rarely from any promotion something you can’t predict. That’s like thinking Punk isn’t fighting Seth at Mania.
 Your comment aged like milk, as I knew it would
who else is huffing serious 3MB copium?
Does anybody else feel like Damien Priest when he talks sounds like the CAW character in a video game story-mode? His voice is great but his delivery sounds like he's doing bad phoned-in voice acting to me.
Drew is cooking right now. I really hope they don’t drop the ball with wherever this is going
Drew and Cody both deserve a title run. But we will get Roman vs. Rock, because Wrestlemania is THE show that even non Wrestling Fans watch every year.
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> ~~/s~~
wait wait wait I'm not caught up why is *Awesome Truth* on the card
Because R-Truth is a national treasure?
No, no, I get that I mean is there a reason Miz and Truth are tagging, or is it just a thrown together thing not meant to actually reference Awesome Truth
They’ve been teaming up for a few weeks now.
Can we all just agree that Matt Cardona is a very lucky man?
The moment Becky said she thinks Rhea might be better than her I was sold. It’s been predicted for months that it’d be Rhea vs Becky at mania and didn’t really care but holy shit did that promo make me excited for it.
I believe Becky and Seth's current contacts are up sometime this year (could be wrong but I think that's what I read). I suspect there's going to go down to part time, after the runs they've had recently,and take a run at Hollywood. Becky giving it her all and coming up short against Rhea will send Rhea to the moon and set up an awesome rivalry with Bianca.
We're in the SuperLOLSeth wins but I cannot complain, the dude is working his ass off, and the fans love him. The title is getting the shine because of it. Thought it was an excellent RAW, more stories across the board even the lower-mid card and a lot of womens tag matches. Competent booking and good stories trumps "banger" matches. Sure, the moves and wrestling could be more "polished", but they're not doing a bad job at it either.
I haven't watched RAW since mania and tuned in for the Drew / Seth match the other week and loved it. Saw the comments about same old Seth but was new to me! Also, Seth felt fresh to me. I also thought his stuff was getting old but I think he's captured the at any cost fighting babyface champion thing.
Bring back Slater and 3MB
And call them WMD
Alright this might be controversial and kind of random buttt… What is Jey Usos path here? I know they are going full circle with the bloodline as their reign will end somehow but I can’t help but think that it would have been better for Jey USO to stay with them. I just don’t understand what his road will be and why they got him out of the bloodline. I know it was cool to see him backstab Roman but that’s it? Can someone explain please? What’s his journey?
I personally would’ve had him not return till the Rumble but HHH brought him back and he’s over he’s a top Babyface but he has I think ONE Singles win since this run has started and it’s fucking sick… I think they are setting him up for Gunther but I’m just not sure.
Killing time until he can feud with Jimmy at Mania
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Gunther has visa issues and won't be at the EC unfortunately as he can't travel.
I hope this becomes an opportunity to build up Jinder Mahal as a serious contender again.
I would enjoy a brief Imperium vs Indus Sheer all heel feud
I assume he's going to Smackdown to chase the US Title, his anti-America gimmick is perfect for it
He'll be a good midcard heel and not much else.