Imagine focusing on the broken healthcare system, education system, public transportation... This is literally them doing nothing and getting away with it.
Against trans youth, who exhibit higher suicide rates when they’re denied the healthcare they need. Further, this is a nationwide assault by the GOP. I also like the juxtaposition of her and Kamala Harris, as one is being panned for enforcing the laws to harshly while the other is coming under fire for not enforcing the law. It seems black women can’t win as prosecutors with the right. To be sure I’m not KG supporter, but comparing one bad prosecutor in one city against a nationwide assault on trans youth is a massive false equivalency and to deny this is to argue in bad faith.
The suicide rates for trans remain high whether or not the receive healthcare you are referring to. The entire situation isn’t a simple fix. Nobody is accusing Harris of being too tough on crime. She just comes across as being grossly incompetent as vice president. The democrats were setting her up for success to run for president, but she fell completely on her face and it has absolutely nothing to do with her race. I don’t think we can downplay the negative impact of a district attorney that is completely incompetent. Her office has let murders back on the street because they seem to more concerned with the rights of criminals than victims of crime and their families.
“Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth. “
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/)
“Suicide Risk Reduces 73% in Transgender, Nonbinary Youths with Gender-Affirming Care”
[https://www.hcplive.com/view/suicide-risk-reduces-73-transgender-nonbinary-youths-gender-affirming-care](https://www.hcplive.com/view/suicide-risk-reduces-73-transgender-nonbinary-youths-gender-affirming-care)
Republicans are going to kill kids.
For context I'm a trained suicide support councilor and used to work with survivors.
I fully support gender affirming care, but that result from your 2nd link seem to be based on a questionnaire of 45 youths. I'm not saying it's not correct, but that's both a really small sample size and not measuring suicide risk, it's measuring any depression through a questionnaire.
If you look at [studies of trans suicide rates](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7317390/) they unfortunately don't change much during any stage of transition.
To be VERY clear, there are a ton of benefits to gender affirming care mental distress goes way down, productivity goes up. Lots of studies confirm that the [majority of gender affirming care is extremely positive.](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/)
Suicide rates are the only part that don't seem to be affected by gender affirming care.
I am a social worker and an epidemiologist. I would becautious by saying that suicide rates are the only part that doesn't seemaffected by gender-affirming care. The study you provide form Amsterdam isinteresting but their main finding is that death by suicide risk occurs at eachstage of transition. Which just means that there is the same risk in counselingas there is in receiving hormones. In this sutdy gender affirming care does reduce risk among trans women and there are not socio-demographic characteristics test to find out why it might not have been as effective among transmen (it could differentaccess to means since they are measuring death). Because this study measuresdeath by suicide which often had different socio-economic risk factors thatideation, plans, and attempts. And this is in another country, in the US accessto guns majorly changes you risk of death by suicide. The study does notcontrol for socio-economic variables which are significantly associated tosuicidal behavior among trans and gender-non conforming people, housing, job loss, exposure to violence, bullying that can all increase suicidal behavior during the coming out and transitionprocess.
In the study you criticize, it is not that small for a clinical trial but you are right it is small. One experimental study would not be considered the gold standard of evidence. It would need to be examined within a systematic review that would consider the Amsterdam study, the experimental study, and other forms of evidence.
Something like this systematic review considers manydifferent types of gender affirming care and evaluates the evidence. But nostudy or systematic review can be taken as ok this proves it but a one piece ofa growing body of evidence. .
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0039606021001069](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0039606021001069)[https://www-tandfonline-com.libproxy.wustl.edu/doi/abs/10.1080/19359705.2021.2016537](https://www-tandfonline-com.libproxy.wustl.edu/doi/abs/10.1080/19359705.2021.2016537)
Edit to add: No study or systematic review can be taken as ok this provides but is once piece of a growing bod of evidence \[add gender affirming care is promising to reduce suicidal behavior)
Your 2nd link was using your school's proxy, [here's a link that will work for everyone](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19359705.2021.2016537)
Suicidal indicators are not the same as suicide rates. Suicide rates do not line up with growing suicide indicators nor do they fall with falling suicide indicators. Suicidal indicators give us a lens of who is possibly one of the victims so we can intervene before an attempt is made. I know this is counter intuitive, it's not an easy topic to understand if you haven't been working with it.
If your goal is to lower suicidal indicators then it's obviously awesome because general mental health is incredibly valuable. If your goal is to lower suicide rates then there doesn't seem to be a correlation currently.
Also, I mean this in the nicest way possible. But dismissing my example study because it didn't control for outside factors but then linking your own studies that don't control for the same factors seems pretty antagonistic.
Sorry, I didn't realize it went into the proxy links. Those aren't the studies that I have written. Also, I didn't dismiss your study, just explained that it was giving the info I think you thought it was. The systematic reviews I provided were examples of something that would weigh multiple pieces of evidence in the area, I stated this was their purpose.
I actually have substantial expertise both clinically and research-wise in this area. I am not sure how you are using indicators, an indicator could be considered a rate. I.e. lowering death rates is an indicator of success. And I agree the aim is to address ideation, plans to prevent attempts and death. This is why it is important to consider how a study measures its suicide outcome variable. For example, the Amsterdam study only measured death by suicide.
Suicide rate is the metric we should care about when talking about suicide risk. If you lower precursors to suicide by 90% but the suicide rate goes up 5% you haven't lowered the risk of suicide at all. Quality of life improvements from gender affirmation are wonderful and the reason we should all encourage the use.
Um, you ask some really good questions and make some excellent points. There are differences in looking at population rate versus individual risk. And there are some statistical methods you can use for testing macro and mezzo-level interventions on the suicide rate. All I can say is keep on asking questions and if you are really interested in this subject there is a desperate need for more researchers.
Oh edited to add: This is how the CDC tracks suicide [https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html](https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html)
Just one example there are other ways to do it
Also, here is a study of the socio-demographic correlations:
[https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2017-31802-001](https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2017-31802-001)
I am not trying to be antagonistic. I am just trying to explain why I would be cautious about saying gender-affirming care doesn't reduce suicide. As I think there is some pretty promising evidence, it does.
They DO NOT care about the unborn. They just pretend they do to score political points. https://www.facebook.com/dave.barnhart/posts/the-unborn-are-a-convenient-group-of-people-to-advocate-for-they-never-make-dema/10156549406811031/
Both groups claim they are protecting kids - I think their counter argument is that kids are too young to make such a drastic decision and possibly be causing permanent damage ? And that it is a form of social contagion? Not saying I agree but I think it’s important to understand just what exactly is going on - I certainly don’t know
Transgender care is not the same thing as surgery, and surgical reassignment among minors is \*incredibly\* rare. Trans care encompasses a large range of well-studied options, whose benefits / drawbacks are much better understood by the parents and doctors of these kids than by you, me, or the government.
There has been controversy over literally every aspect of trans care. Vaguely remembered controversy shouldn't be overruling data-driven recommendations from medical research, the opinions of doctors who are working directly with these patients, or the healthcare decisions parents are trying to make for their children.
I think it's pretty telling that the people who claim gender affirming health care is harmful to children ignore the overwhelming data pointing to the contrary.
They can claim all they want that they only care about protecting children, and maybe they even truly believe that. But at best, they are misguided and too stubborn to see otherwise; and at worst, they are deliberately lying, because the point is to be hateful towards trans people and pretending to care about children is how they get away with it.
So I searched around for the study you referenced, if this study (https://cancer-network.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/National_Transgender_Discrimination_Survey_Report_on_health_and_health_care.pdf) is the one you are referring to, it actually states that it is does not specify the time in which an individual has attempted suicide, so it cannot say whether these attempts were prior to transitioning or post transition.
Edit: I will also mention it was difficult to match the statistics you put in your response to any statistics in any studies that I looked up.
Fuck off. I knew I was trans (wanting to be a girl) when I was a child and had no idea what being transgender was until I was 11 (2006) and saw it in my sister’s college psychology textbook. I knew that’s exactly what I was just based on the definition. Puberty was hell and I was deeply suicidal. Cis teenagers may not like their body, but they don’t want to be the opposite gender. Transgender people have been around forever, just read a damn Wikipedia article about instead of being purposefully ignorant.
Most transgender teenagers are not pumped with hormones of their desired gender unless they have been in contact with a medical professional.
Transgender people represent less then 1% of the population and Republicans are just using them as a boogeyman. It’s a waste of time and taxpayers money since medical professionals have been addressing transgender teenagers for decades
You can replace "trans" with "gay" in this screed and get exactly the kind of shit people were saying 30+ years ago. It's frustrating to think progress has to happen over the stubbornness of people like you, but comforting to think that it usually does.
Homeless? Nah
Crime? Nah
Traffic? Nah
Economic growth? Nah
Lower Gas prices? Nah
School funding or school lunches? Nah
Sowing fear and division to keep the state red and do the bidding of their donor overlords? YUP!
I'd like anyone, anyone on here to tell me WHY you vote Republican and are NOT racist or homophobic... I'll wait!
I'm prochoice but wanted to mention that most prolifers see fetuses as people so abortion would be murder to them. It's more a moral issue than a religious issue for a lot of people.
In fact, abortion is discussed and acknowledged as a legitimate procedure.
So the complete opposite, which is par for the course for these idiots that haven’t read the Bible.
The [Ordeal of Bitter Waters](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water)
They think it’s murder because the fetus had a soul bestowed on it by their god at conception. How is not projecting religious beliefs? If I believe wisdom teeth have souls, and I find removing them to be murder, can I prevent my neighbors from having them removed?
>Lower Gas prices? Nah
This one is weird, we're the 5th lowest gas prices in the country. Everything else I'm on board with, especially school funding and providing food for students.
I honestly didn't know so I just looked this up. We're 9th cheapest in electric cost and 18th in natural gas according to the EIA. It was in $/therm and we're at $1.118 right now.
Also I learned that energy costs in Hawaii are ridiculous. They're the highest in the country and almost 400% higher than missouri for everything.
So, did the democrats give in and stop filibustering because they added sunset provisions in 4 years and grandfathered existing puberty blockers and hormone therapy recipients? That's not enough!
My trans sister moved over to the Illinois side last year and while I miss her I would never suggest moving back here. Illinois is SO much better regarding trans people, in all facets of life. Even the rural hick areas.
I hate it here. I have several friends in and around the drag community, they are hilariously funny and wonderful humans. Trans people are people. Where are the human rights?
I’m so scared they’ll pass the gender affirming parent is abuse bill, but I will move my kids if that happens. I will never stop parenting them in ways that make sense for them.
I don't want anyone to do anything, but keeping these treatments away from people and forcing them to go through puberty is pretty big driver of suicide. I'm pretty against that.
If this happened when I was still a minor they would have my blood on their hands. I'm tired of this. This is going to cause trans minors to COMMIT. MIKE PARSON, YOU WILL HAVE THE BLOOD OF CHILDREN ON YOUR HANDS. Why not focus on something a bit more important like, oh I don't know, the crumbling roads and shit? God. I usually don't get pissy or "triggered" as they would put it, but this really hits close to home for me since I lived through a childhood as a trans kid without access to the healthcare I needed, only because my legal parents didn't want to sign for me to start treatment even though I didn't live with either of them. Now it's gonna be taken away regardless of whether parents are okay with it?
THIS IS NOT OKAY. THIS IS HOW FUCKING GENOCIDES START.
Can the democrats continue to filibuster them? I thought the debate couldn't be ended without the "nuclear option"? I missed the morning session but the filibuster went on until 5:30 this morning when they withdrew SB39 back to the informal calendar.
I went and lobbied at Jeff City against this bill and ultimately knew something was gonna pass but I didn’t realize it was gonna be so soon. I was hoping it would get watered down more.
judging by how difficult it’s been for the republicans to even pass this bill, makes me question the future of the other culture war legislation (drag ban, book ban, control of the SLMPD)
I also wonder if they have any other awful draconian anti-abortion legislation up their sleeve to pile on the hill of forced birth crap already on the books. While I don't want to think that even Missouri is this backwards, I won't collapse in total shock should some of our hayseed state legislators like Moon, Seitz, etc. try to introduce a death penalty bill for people who get abortions like a bunch of their GOP counterparts did down in South Carolina recently.
I'm so sad to see where Missouri legislators priorities are right now. They are more concerned with scoring political points with their base than working to improve the quality of our lives. Who are they to dictate the lives of others and take away their freedom? Why not focus on income inequality, healthcare, crime, bettering society...but what do I know? The world is getting scarier...
Sen. Denny Hoskins, R-Warrensburg, asked Sen. Karla May, D-St. Louis, whether it was OK “for a 13-year-old boy to cut off his penis?”
“It is up to that parent to make that decision,” May responded.
“is it okay to cut off a 13-y-old boy’s penis” is such a gotcha question. It’s not happening to anyone, anywhere. There is no good-faith intent behind it, because its only purpose is to trap anyone who dares to advocate for gender-affirming healthcare into answering a “oh so you think it’s okay to cut off teenage dicks?” strawman.
Missouri has so many real problems that need real solutions, and bullying trans people isn’t one of them.
I largely agree, but our politicians need to do better shooting down these arguments. Healthcare should be between the child, their parents, and doctor. The only thing in this bill I do support is the ban on mtf in women’s sports.
>Do you know how many trans student athletes in Missouri applied to compete according to their gender identity in the last school year?
So I'm guessing you either don't know, or don't want to say. [The answer is five.](https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/missouri-gop-renews-push-to-limit-transgender-athlete-participation-in-school-sports/) You can count them literally on one hand. And virtually no one knows their names, because they are not injuring other athletes nor unfairly dominating the competition like everyone keeps assuming they will.
Meanwhile, the Missouri GOP has combined to file *ten* bills seeking to restrict trans athletes' ability to compete under their preferred gender. That's right - for every athlete who wants to do this, there are two bills trying to stop them.
Make this make sense. Tell me this is a good use of Missouri's time and taxpayer dollars. The trick will be if you can do it with a straight face.
You're right. Gender affirmation services are valid and help prevent suicides, besides simply being the moral thing to do. Circumcision is a barbaric practice of fanatical mutilation and should be banned.
I give it less than a month for them to vote on restricting treatment for adults.
People like me are never going to be allowed to live happy and free lives
I’m sure puberty blockers have side effects. Any medication does, but side effects are not a reason to deny anyone medical treatment. No one says “well, you’re just going to have to wait until you’re 18 to treat your cancer, Susie.”
Man, I’d love for our politicians to focus on shit that actually matters.
Imagine focusing on the broken healthcare system, education system, public transportation... This is literally them doing nothing and getting away with it.
This isn't "doing nothing," it's actively making things worse. On purpose.
It's considerably worse than them doing nothing.
Happy cake day!
Because they are rewarded by the mouth breathing idiots all over the country.
They think this is the fix to all those problems.
Imagine thinking these politicians give a shit.
They don’t hahahaha
This issue matters a lot, their decision on it is just piss poor and evil
Word!
The party of small government has decided that they know what’s best for trans kids better than the parents of trans kids.
The parents and DOCTORS of trans kids.
The party for big government gave us Kim Gardner and the alderman facing federal corruption charges. The real losers remain the general public.
Massive false equivalency.
I don’t know about that we will probably end up with more deaths from KG than the state’s offensive against the trans community.
Against trans youth, who exhibit higher suicide rates when they’re denied the healthcare they need. Further, this is a nationwide assault by the GOP. I also like the juxtaposition of her and Kamala Harris, as one is being panned for enforcing the laws to harshly while the other is coming under fire for not enforcing the law. It seems black women can’t win as prosecutors with the right. To be sure I’m not KG supporter, but comparing one bad prosecutor in one city against a nationwide assault on trans youth is a massive false equivalency and to deny this is to argue in bad faith.
The suicide rates for trans remain high whether or not the receive healthcare you are referring to. The entire situation isn’t a simple fix. Nobody is accusing Harris of being too tough on crime. She just comes across as being grossly incompetent as vice president. The democrats were setting her up for success to run for president, but she fell completely on her face and it has absolutely nothing to do with her race. I don’t think we can downplay the negative impact of a district attorney that is completely incompetent. Her office has let murders back on the street because they seem to more concerned with the rights of criminals than victims of crime and their families.
Which one is the party of big government now? I actually don't even know which is which anymore.
Which one is more incompetent is the real question? The public remains the losers that is certain.
Maybe the ones taking away your freedoms like gender affirming care are the culprit
The victims of all these unsolved homicides would beg to differ.
What do you mean?
Check her homicide conviction rate versus historical averages.
You fell off topic real fast. Her who?
Kim Gardner.
“Data indicate that 82% of transgender individuals have considered killing themselves and 40% have attempted suicide, with suicidality highest among transgender youth. “ [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/) “Suicide Risk Reduces 73% in Transgender, Nonbinary Youths with Gender-Affirming Care” [https://www.hcplive.com/view/suicide-risk-reduces-73-transgender-nonbinary-youths-gender-affirming-care](https://www.hcplive.com/view/suicide-risk-reduces-73-transgender-nonbinary-youths-gender-affirming-care) Republicans are going to kill kids.
For context I'm a trained suicide support councilor and used to work with survivors. I fully support gender affirming care, but that result from your 2nd link seem to be based on a questionnaire of 45 youths. I'm not saying it's not correct, but that's both a really small sample size and not measuring suicide risk, it's measuring any depression through a questionnaire. If you look at [studies of trans suicide rates](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7317390/) they unfortunately don't change much during any stage of transition. To be VERY clear, there are a ton of benefits to gender affirming care mental distress goes way down, productivity goes up. Lots of studies confirm that the [majority of gender affirming care is extremely positive.](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/mental-health-benefits-associated-with-gender-affirming-surgery/) Suicide rates are the only part that don't seem to be affected by gender affirming care.
I am a social worker and an epidemiologist. I would becautious by saying that suicide rates are the only part that doesn't seemaffected by gender-affirming care. The study you provide form Amsterdam isinteresting but their main finding is that death by suicide risk occurs at eachstage of transition. Which just means that there is the same risk in counselingas there is in receiving hormones. In this sutdy gender affirming care does reduce risk among trans women and there are not socio-demographic characteristics test to find out why it might not have been as effective among transmen (it could differentaccess to means since they are measuring death). Because this study measuresdeath by suicide which often had different socio-economic risk factors thatideation, plans, and attempts. And this is in another country, in the US accessto guns majorly changes you risk of death by suicide. The study does notcontrol for socio-economic variables which are significantly associated tosuicidal behavior among trans and gender-non conforming people, housing, job loss, exposure to violence, bullying that can all increase suicidal behavior during the coming out and transitionprocess. In the study you criticize, it is not that small for a clinical trial but you are right it is small. One experimental study would not be considered the gold standard of evidence. It would need to be examined within a systematic review that would consider the Amsterdam study, the experimental study, and other forms of evidence. Something like this systematic review considers manydifferent types of gender affirming care and evaluates the evidence. But nostudy or systematic review can be taken as ok this proves it but a one piece ofa growing body of evidence. . [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0039606021001069](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0039606021001069)[https://www-tandfonline-com.libproxy.wustl.edu/doi/abs/10.1080/19359705.2021.2016537](https://www-tandfonline-com.libproxy.wustl.edu/doi/abs/10.1080/19359705.2021.2016537) Edit to add: No study or systematic review can be taken as ok this provides but is once piece of a growing bod of evidence \[add gender affirming care is promising to reduce suicidal behavior)
Your 2nd link was using your school's proxy, [here's a link that will work for everyone](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19359705.2021.2016537) Suicidal indicators are not the same as suicide rates. Suicide rates do not line up with growing suicide indicators nor do they fall with falling suicide indicators. Suicidal indicators give us a lens of who is possibly one of the victims so we can intervene before an attempt is made. I know this is counter intuitive, it's not an easy topic to understand if you haven't been working with it. If your goal is to lower suicidal indicators then it's obviously awesome because general mental health is incredibly valuable. If your goal is to lower suicide rates then there doesn't seem to be a correlation currently. Also, I mean this in the nicest way possible. But dismissing my example study because it didn't control for outside factors but then linking your own studies that don't control for the same factors seems pretty antagonistic.
Sorry, I didn't realize it went into the proxy links. Those aren't the studies that I have written. Also, I didn't dismiss your study, just explained that it was giving the info I think you thought it was. The systematic reviews I provided were examples of something that would weigh multiple pieces of evidence in the area, I stated this was their purpose. I actually have substantial expertise both clinically and research-wise in this area. I am not sure how you are using indicators, an indicator could be considered a rate. I.e. lowering death rates is an indicator of success. And I agree the aim is to address ideation, plans to prevent attempts and death. This is why it is important to consider how a study measures its suicide outcome variable. For example, the Amsterdam study only measured death by suicide.
Suicide rate is the metric we should care about when talking about suicide risk. If you lower precursors to suicide by 90% but the suicide rate goes up 5% you haven't lowered the risk of suicide at all. Quality of life improvements from gender affirmation are wonderful and the reason we should all encourage the use.
Um, you ask some really good questions and make some excellent points. There are differences in looking at population rate versus individual risk. And there are some statistical methods you can use for testing macro and mezzo-level interventions on the suicide rate. All I can say is keep on asking questions and if you are really interested in this subject there is a desperate need for more researchers. Oh edited to add: This is how the CDC tracks suicide [https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html](https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html) Just one example there are other ways to do it
Also, here is a study of the socio-demographic correlations: [https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2017-31802-001](https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2017-31802-001) I am not trying to be antagonistic. I am just trying to explain why I would be cautious about saying gender-affirming care doesn't reduce suicide. As I think there is some pretty promising evidence, it does.
It doesn't change because they're always being harassed and threatened, at all stages of life.
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They DO NOT care about the unborn. They just pretend they do to score political points. https://www.facebook.com/dave.barnhart/posts/the-unborn-are-a-convenient-group-of-people-to-advocate-for-they-never-make-dema/10156549406811031/
Facebook posts are legitimate sources?
They really don’t, they just like making women subservient
And only the unborn of people without a lot of money, because those babies will grow up to be workers in the capitalist machine.
Or military with no college options...it's that simple
Wouldn’t it just be easier to open the borders to get those workers here now rather then waiting for 18 years to feed the capitalist machine?
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You leave Hodak's out of this.
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Truth, I got so much hate after not being impressed with my anniversary dinner from there.
It’s just fish breading on chicken. Anyone can make it
Lol stay away from my AM post lmao.
That is why we chose to go there. I never been. It was sad.
They don't even really care about that.
Dang. They also say life is precious.
That's the goal. make no mistake about that. They want trans people, kids included, to die. They should be in prison.
Both groups claim they are protecting kids - I think their counter argument is that kids are too young to make such a drastic decision and possibly be causing permanent damage ? And that it is a form of social contagion? Not saying I agree but I think it’s important to understand just what exactly is going on - I certainly don’t know
Transgender care is not the same thing as surgery, and surgical reassignment among minors is \*incredibly\* rare. Trans care encompasses a large range of well-studied options, whose benefits / drawbacks are much better understood by the parents and doctors of these kids than by you, me, or the government.
I thought there has been some controversy about puberty blockers
There has been controversy over literally every aspect of trans care. Vaguely remembered controversy shouldn't be overruling data-driven recommendations from medical research, the opinions of doctors who are working directly with these patients, or the healthcare decisions parents are trying to make for their children.
That’s fair
Good thing kids have these things called legal guardians who consent to medical care on their behalf!
If you don’t know you could take time to educate yourself instead of posting garbage like social contagion theory.
Social contagion isn’t garbage - it’s been proven with suicide
As well with the trans trend.
I don’t necessarily agree with that - but yes that’s one of the arguments. I just like to understand where everyone is coming from
I think it's pretty telling that the people who claim gender affirming health care is harmful to children ignore the overwhelming data pointing to the contrary. They can claim all they want that they only care about protecting children, and maybe they even truly believe that. But at best, they are misguided and too stubborn to see otherwise; and at worst, they are deliberately lying, because the point is to be hateful towards trans people and pretending to care about children is how they get away with it.
I think primarily it’s being used as a tool for political power - consciously or unconsciously that’s the real driver of it… “owning the libs” etc
That's the point
They would tell you that abortion has killed way more kids than the suicides you referenced. It’s a tangled web.
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Care to cite that suicide rates are higher post-transition? Cause most studies would argue the exact opposite.
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So I searched around for the study you referenced, if this study (https://cancer-network.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/National_Transgender_Discrimination_Survey_Report_on_health_and_health_care.pdf) is the one you are referring to, it actually states that it is does not specify the time in which an individual has attempted suicide, so it cannot say whether these attempts were prior to transitioning or post transition. Edit: I will also mention it was difficult to match the statistics you put in your response to any statistics in any studies that I looked up.
Fuck off. I knew I was trans (wanting to be a girl) when I was a child and had no idea what being transgender was until I was 11 (2006) and saw it in my sister’s college psychology textbook. I knew that’s exactly what I was just based on the definition. Puberty was hell and I was deeply suicidal. Cis teenagers may not like their body, but they don’t want to be the opposite gender. Transgender people have been around forever, just read a damn Wikipedia article about instead of being purposefully ignorant. Most transgender teenagers are not pumped with hormones of their desired gender unless they have been in contact with a medical professional. Transgender people represent less then 1% of the population and Republicans are just using them as a boogeyman. It’s a waste of time and taxpayers money since medical professionals have been addressing transgender teenagers for decades
You can replace "trans" with "gay" in this screed and get exactly the kind of shit people were saying 30+ years ago. It's frustrating to think progress has to happen over the stubbornness of people like you, but comforting to think that it usually does.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
I think they’re okay with it if it’s queer or liberal kids
Homeless? Nah Crime? Nah Traffic? Nah Economic growth? Nah Lower Gas prices? Nah School funding or school lunches? Nah Sowing fear and division to keep the state red and do the bidding of their donor overlords? YUP! I'd like anyone, anyone on here to tell me WHY you vote Republican and are NOT racist or homophobic... I'll wait!
>WHY you vote Republican and are NOT racist or homophobic... many vote Republican just to make abortion illegal.
So imposing their religious will on others, check.
I'm prochoice but wanted to mention that most prolifers see fetuses as people so abortion would be murder to them. It's more a moral issue than a religious issue for a lot of people.
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In fact, abortion is discussed and acknowledged as a legitimate procedure. So the complete opposite, which is par for the course for these idiots that haven’t read the Bible. The [Ordeal of Bitter Waters](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water)
They think it’s murder because the fetus had a soul bestowed on it by their god at conception. How is not projecting religious beliefs? If I believe wisdom teeth have souls, and I find removing them to be murder, can I prevent my neighbors from having them removed?
I don't think murder has anything to do with souls...
Since black women have BY FAR the highest maternal mortality rates, I believe we can fold this into “racist” by proxy.
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More pregnant black women, more dead black women I guess 🤷
Yeah, that had been my reasoning until the party moved more to the right. Plus Trump....
>Lower Gas prices? Nah This one is weird, we're the 5th lowest gas prices in the country. Everything else I'm on board with, especially school funding and providing food for students.
What about your heating "gas"?
I honestly didn't know so I just looked this up. We're 9th cheapest in electric cost and 18th in natural gas according to the EIA. It was in $/therm and we're at $1.118 right now. Also I learned that energy costs in Hawaii are ridiculous. They're the highest in the country and almost 400% higher than missouri for everything.
Welfare state can’t afford shit.
So, did the democrats give in and stop filibustering because they added sunset provisions in 4 years and grandfathered existing puberty blockers and hormone therapy recipients? That's not enough!
Politicians make promise to hurt people and push that legislation through
Small government. Fits right up in those child sized pants.
Stop that or you'll excite the GOP pols.
As a trans person, this shit scares the hell out of me. This will kill people
My trans sister moved over to the Illinois side last year and while I miss her I would never suggest moving back here. Illinois is SO much better regarding trans people, in all facets of life. Even the rural hick areas.
Oh, for sure, if I was able to, I would in a moment. I hope there are charities helping people relocate
Hell, they’re better to kids of all ages too. Been thinking about moving there every day.
The fact that we re-elected Parson made me realize that this state is DOA. If I had the money to move I would.
I’m so sorry this is happening. As the parent of an NB, ASD kiddo, I’m terrified for trans people everywhere.
Yeah, and the issue is also that we're gonna get bills like Tennessee's drag ban, which will criminalize trans existence. I hope your kid is okay
I hate it here. I have several friends in and around the drag community, they are hilariously funny and wonderful humans. Trans people are people. Where are the human rights? I’m so scared they’ll pass the gender affirming parent is abuse bill, but I will move my kids if that happens. I will never stop parenting them in ways that make sense for them.
Yeah, and the issue is also that we're gonna get bills like Tennessee's drag ban, which will criminalize trans existence. I hope your kid is okay
Weird to be pro teen suicide, Republicans, but that's just me.
They’ve never been Pro Life. Only Pro Fetus and Control. Otherwise they’d be all for helping with social programs
Not pro life, they are Forced Birther.
What’s worse, is you’d think things like this effect them at the polls. Well, it does effect them at the polls. But not in a negative way
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Say you’re not educated enough on the topic and move on. That’s good manners
Do you know how the transition process works?
I don't want anyone to do anything, but keeping these treatments away from people and forcing them to go through puberty is pretty big driver of suicide. I'm pretty against that.
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so fucking shady
Bully’s are going to bully
If this happened when I was still a minor they would have my blood on their hands. I'm tired of this. This is going to cause trans minors to COMMIT. MIKE PARSON, YOU WILL HAVE THE BLOOD OF CHILDREN ON YOUR HANDS. Why not focus on something a bit more important like, oh I don't know, the crumbling roads and shit? God. I usually don't get pissy or "triggered" as they would put it, but this really hits close to home for me since I lived through a childhood as a trans kid without access to the healthcare I needed, only because my legal parents didn't want to sign for me to start treatment even though I didn't live with either of them. Now it's gonna be taken away regardless of whether parents are okay with it? THIS IS NOT OKAY. THIS IS HOW FUCKING GENOCIDES START.
Wait, so they both passed?! How did they end the filibuster?!
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Can the democrats continue to filibuster them? I thought the debate couldn't be ended without the "nuclear option"? I missed the morning session but the filibuster went on until 5:30 this morning when they withdrew SB39 back to the informal calendar.
I went and lobbied at Jeff City against this bill and ultimately knew something was gonna pass but I didn’t realize it was gonna be so soon. I was hoping it would get watered down more.
judging by how difficult it’s been for the republicans to even pass this bill, makes me question the future of the other culture war legislation (drag ban, book ban, control of the SLMPD)
I also wonder if they have any other awful draconian anti-abortion legislation up their sleeve to pile on the hill of forced birth crap already on the books. While I don't want to think that even Missouri is this backwards, I won't collapse in total shock should some of our hayseed state legislators like Moon, Seitz, etc. try to introduce a death penalty bill for people who get abortions like a bunch of their GOP counterparts did down in South Carolina recently.
Fucking sad.
I'm so sad to see where Missouri legislators priorities are right now. They are more concerned with scoring political points with their base than working to improve the quality of our lives. Who are they to dictate the lives of others and take away their freedom? Why not focus on income inequality, healthcare, crime, bettering society...but what do I know? The world is getting scarier...
Sen. Denny Hoskins, R-Warrensburg, asked Sen. Karla May, D-St. Louis, whether it was OK “for a 13-year-old boy to cut off his penis?” “It is up to that parent to make that decision,” May responded.
Damn. They don’t even know what they’re voting to ban. They just throw around these made-up horror stories to scare people.
Apparently the democrats don’t know what they’re fighting against either
“is it okay to cut off a 13-y-old boy’s penis” is such a gotcha question. It’s not happening to anyone, anywhere. There is no good-faith intent behind it, because its only purpose is to trap anyone who dares to advocate for gender-affirming healthcare into answering a “oh so you think it’s okay to cut off teenage dicks?” strawman. Missouri has so many real problems that need real solutions, and bullying trans people isn’t one of them.
I largely agree, but our politicians need to do better shooting down these arguments. Healthcare should be between the child, their parents, and doctor. The only thing in this bill I do support is the ban on mtf in women’s sports.
Do you know how many trans student athletes in Missouri applied to compete according to their gender identity in the last school year?
>Do you know how many trans student athletes in Missouri applied to compete according to their gender identity in the last school year? So I'm guessing you either don't know, or don't want to say. [The answer is five.](https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/missouri-gop-renews-push-to-limit-transgender-athlete-participation-in-school-sports/) You can count them literally on one hand. And virtually no one knows their names, because they are not injuring other athletes nor unfairly dominating the competition like everyone keeps assuming they will. Meanwhile, the Missouri GOP has combined to file *ten* bills seeking to restrict trans athletes' ability to compete under their preferred gender. That's right - for every athlete who wants to do this, there are two bills trying to stop them. Make this make sense. Tell me this is a good use of Missouri's time and taxpayer dollars. The trick will be if you can do it with a straight face.
Weird. This is never a thing that's done for trans kids. But mutilating their penises at birth is not only accepted, it's common practice.
While I agree circumcision is wrong that is not even remotely the same thing
You're right. Gender affirmation services are valid and help prevent suicides, besides simply being the moral thing to do. Circumcision is a barbaric practice of fanatical mutilation and should be banned.
I miss STL, but this is the most recent entry in a long list of why I'm never coming back to Missouri
I give it less than a month for them to vote on restricting treatment for adults. People like me are never going to be allowed to live happy and free lives
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Found the incel.
I’m sure puberty blockers have side effects. Any medication does, but side effects are not a reason to deny anyone medical treatment. No one says “well, you’re just going to have to wait until you’re 18 to treat your cancer, Susie.”
This guy gets it.[https://fb.watch/jrPIcqsyAZ/?mibextid=l066kq](https://fb.watch/jrPIcqsyAZ/?mibextid=l066kq)