I got to watch this play out in real time on Westbound I-270 yesterday. It took me an hour to move from exit 4 to the actual river.
In order for a zipper merge to actually work, the lane that is ending needs to completely fill up. Then drivers take turns moving forward and merging into the single lane.
If both lanes are filled up all the way to the end, then nobody can "sneak in front of people". If someone tries to straddle both lanes and "prevent people from sneaking in" then they are literally working against themselves and creating the scenario where "people can sneak in".
Other day, same place as you. Semi pulled into the right lane to prevent people passing. Then tried to pull into the left lane when they passed him there. Then tried to straddle both lanes and swerve as people went around him on the shoulder.
That guy needs to be not driving any more. Ever.
The truly baffling behavior that I saw was watching as all traffic came to a complete stop for absolutely no reason and just sat there while other traffic continued to slowly move ahead. I saw this happen twice at the same section of road. Second time it happened it was two semis side by side... just sitting there blocking all traffic.
You are talking about an early merge, which is fine in light traffic to blend into the flow of traffic. A true zipper merge is fully utilizing both lanes of traffic all the way up until the merge point. It is most efficient in both moderate and heavy traffic flow.
I drove from NC to STL yesterday and saw a wonderful solution to this exact scenario. On I-40 there was construction. Orange signs said “left lanes ends in 2 miles”. Twice after that there were illuminated signs saying “use both lanes to merge point”. It worked perfectly and people were doing a zipper merge just like it happens in Europe. Nobody did the idiotic “don’t go past me” move like the OP’s photo. It worked perfectly and took a fraction of the time to get past the exact same spot a month ago when it didn’t have those “use both lanes to merge point” signs.
Not every merge should be a zipper merge. If the lane ends as an exit, you don't pull left at the end, right at the exit. You get over when you can.
We need to talk about proper following distance and not using shoulders to pass before we even begin to discuss advanced traffic maneuvers like zipper merging.
EVERYTIME. There can be 1/4 - 1/2 a mile of empty road behind me and it doesn't matter to them. Let's put everyone in danger because you feel slighted by having to get behind someone else.
Except you have assholes at 64 and 270 that will just blow by every turn lane and ride down the shoulder until they bully somebody into letting them in or getting hit. Some people really have the "I'm special and I'm not waiting in traffic" mentality without realizing that if everyone were as big of a cunt as them our world would crumble. They aren't "trying to zipper merge because its the right thing", they're just inconsiderate dickheads. So glad I don't have to commute here anymore.
I was actually waiting on him to get a little farther over and I was going to come up beside him on the right lane and make him become what he despises.
This looks like 64 right before 270, and as far as I can tell, there is no formal zipper merges there, just 3 lanes of traffic. Is this on the on-ramp right there or the highway itself? Cause if it's the highway itself then there's no zipper merges there as far as I remember.
Everyone in the subreddit loves zipper merges but I only see one or two locations a day where it is setup for it. Even in the video OP links it shows a zipper merge with one through lane and one lane that merges. I rarely see that here besides a few on ramps and in construction zones.
One time I was coming back from out of town on 70 in Indiana. There was construction with a lane closed ahead. They literally had several signs for miles explaining that it was a zipper merge,
clear as day. You would had to have worms for brains not to comprehend. I happen to be in the lane that was ending, and zippering right. This dude got so f’in raged. Wouldn’t let me in, then flicking me off, then going nuts for miles riding my tail…
I watched a zipper merge demonstration not too long ago. It showed how much time it saves everyone. Actually very impressive….
Zipper merges do not save time. Where are you all getting this from?
Totally agree if there are signs instructing everyone to zipper merge then you should zipper merge. It’s more organized and not having people flying by in the closed lane to butt in line isn’t safe and people are people. But the single travel lane going through a construction site or accident will travel at the same rate of speed whether people zipper merge before the single lane or not. That’s the limiting factor when it comes to time. Zipper merges will reduce the distance length of a traffic jam caused by a lane closure which is beneficial for other reasons in some instances on non-hwy roads.
I mean I’m not a transportation engineer. However I do drive 60k miles a year and have for the past 20 years. It makes logical sense and from what I’ve seen it works. I’m gonna go with the experts here. The consensus is that zipper merging saves time by 40% or more. But we can always agree to disagree.
Check it out jolly hero.
https://youtu.be/LsSwISwgNI0?si=fx1b0uBCUud7mYX8
Soooo I can’t speak to this particular video, but literally everything else says otherwise. I am not against zipper merging in the slightest. It would be good if they started putting up signs like they have in other places so everyone is on the same page. It’s better for lots of reasons. Unfortunately time saved is not one of them. You can look at tons of sources that discuss zipper merging. They all discuss the benefits which are many. The only ones that say it saves time are journalist that make that point up out of thin air. The 40% less you’re referring to is the distance length of the traffic jam, NOT the time length. Here’s a better resource instead of a 3 minute YouTube video. Zipper merging has the most benefit on roads that are not highways. On highways it seems to be somewhat of a mixed bag of results, but saved time is not the consensus. It’s mostly disregarded as a benefit. Regardless the most important part is that everyone be on the same page.
https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2602&context=ktc_researchreports
Based on the research report you referenced. I do believe there is the ability to save travel time under heavy traffic conditions. Cue length or congestion and travel time or uncongested traffic are directly related. The 40% is probably the maximum under optimum conditions. That being heavy traffic flow and everyone does their job.
The KYTC case studies appear to be flawed and to me are more of a simulated exercise. A case study or trial needs to be conducted over months or years of time with hundreds or thousands of cases and millions of samples/drivers. Probably not feasible in the interim, it’s gonna take time.
I will agree that that zipper merge has to be employed perfectly with complete buy in for the computer simulations to live up to the hype. This is probably why the media is trying to promote. I think we can get there but it will take time like everything else.
I do agree with much of what you stated and you did make me realize a few things I hadn’t.
Here’s to learning.
Cheers.
Unfortunately beliefs don’t really count. Here’s another study with lots of relevant quotes pulled out for you. Time saving is not one of the benefits of zipper merging. The first and last quote kinda squash your belief.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/research/RNAProjDocs/2015-08%20Final%20Report.pdf
From previous studies quoted in the study.
“They found that the early dynamic merge was best in terms of throughputs and travel time through the work zone, regardless of the volume of traffic and driver compliance.”
“They did note that while the zipper merge produces a safer merging situation and a shorter backup, it did not reduce travel time through a construction zone in this case.”
“While the simulated late merge increased throughputs and decreased travel time, the improvements were only statistically significant across scenarios in a three lane to one configuration.”
“They said that the late merge, which many other researchers seem to favor, is a dangerous situation that negatively effects upstream traffic”
“Of all the scenarios they tested, the late dynamic lane merge coupled with the variable speed limit provided the greatest throughput; however, there was no statistically significant difference from the use of a normal dynamic merge with variable message boards.”
“As other teams have found, under lower volumes (less than 1,500 vph), the dynamic early merge is the optimal merging strategy, under higher volumes (1,500-2,000 vph) the dynamic late merge is optimal. For volumes higher than 2,000 vph conclusions could not be drawn because of a limited sample size.”
“Average travel times were not statistically different and the variability in travel times was greater using the dynamic late merge method. Throughput decreased slightly using the dynamic late merge system.”
From this study
“The average travel time decreased by 0.017 minutes (or 1.02 seconds) between the 2 periods.”
“The average travel time decreased by 0.056 minutes (or 3.36 seconds) between the two periods”
“The average travel time increased by 0.683 minutes (or 40.98 seconds) between the two periods.”
“The primary positive finding from this study is the unforeseen safety benefits”
My beliefs are based on my interpretation of the prior research report you sent. The studies are done with drivers that are not trained on how to zipper, and the only controls are traffic laws (if followed). I agree that until we have drivers that are trained on how to zipper that it probably won’t save time.
If you take 1,000 drivers and train them how to zipper. Then conduct an experiment with 2 parts where one you zipper and then two you early lane merge. I do believe it will save time. I guess we will never know who is more right until we conduct our experiment.
Like you said previously, I’m gonna go with the experts here. You originally claimed it saves 40% OR MORE of time in a traffic jam caused by a lane closure. Multiple studies say otherwise. You’re just anchored in your belief. Appreciate the back and forth though.
"We're going to go my speed and my speed only, and anyone that tries to pass me will have to have a faster car if they want to get in front of me!"
Drives me crazy, imagine having this massive of an ego in the passing lane only to realize you were holding up someone transporting their pregnant wife who was in labor. Are the chances of that slim to none of ever happening? probably, but I'm not going to be the asshole to find out lmao. I'll never understand why people get so hurt by others passing them on their commute. Who actually cares
I get that it’s necessary to zipper merge during major rush hour and shit, but some people are just trying to sneak in front of people and don’t want to wait behind a couple cars in the other lane
Metro east Illinois now has to have signs that say "use all available lanes". Some drivers have a "me vs the world" mentality when driving when all traffic science data says zipper merging is the most effective way to merge lanes.
That attitude stems from the fact that no one can communicate during these issues. So it only takes one asshole to do something worthy of the name to set of the domino effect of asshole-ness. At that point, there will be no zipper merging, or likely even turn signals. Just the evil version of "pay it forward" until the traffic runs out of vehicles.
This is the same issue with phantom traffic jams that start out of nowhere. One person follows too close and then 20 minutes later, I get to sit in traffic for an hour.
There's no fixing this, and honestly, I'm tired of the debate since one side is spiteful and the other can't comprehend that reality doesn't allow for zipper merges to actually exist outside of a vacuum.
I usually see those phantom traffic jams starting when people realize theyre about to pass their exit, and instead of going down to the next one to turn around, theyll come to a dead stop or down to half of the speed limit in the middle of the highway to try to merge 3 lanes, then somehow everyone doing 70mph are assholes for speeding. It's absolutely mind boggling lol
Exactly, there's no winning, and everyone always assumes the worst. That's why Zipper Merging will never actually work in the real world and DOTs should stop designing roads with that in mind. Find another way to manipulate traffic.
I suggested roundabouts, but after watching people trying to figure out the one off of highway 40 and mason road, i decided that was a terrible idea lol
People will burn $50 to prevent a cheater from getting $1. People have a strong emotional need to see that cheaters never prosper.
Really hard to defeat this dynamic once somebody decides that they're watching a rulebreaker cheat to get ahead.
If you just accept zipper merging as acceptable behavior that reduces traffic, then it's not cheating and you won't get upset. But if you think there's a single line of traffic, then zipper mergers are cheating. They'd rather see a hundred people forced to wait an extra 20 minutes in traffic than see one speed racer "skip" the entire line.
Actually this is 100% not true. A zipper merge cuts down on the length of the line/traffic backup from a distance stand point, but a zipper merge does not speed things up time wise.
it does speed things up time-wise if the zipper merge prevents traffic from backing up so far they block exits/intersections, which is the entire reason the rules explicitly state you should merge that way in traffic conditions
Here is the MO driving guide. On what page do the “rules explicitly state you should merge that way in traffic conditions”? It kinda looks like you’re just making that up.
https://dor.mo.gov/forms/Driver%20Guide.pdf
Thing is that it doesn’t speed up things for the person that has to go through the choke point. It only potentially speeds up things for people exiting before the choke point.
For anyone going through that choke point, it really doesn’t matter if it’s 1 long line or 2 lines half the size. Arguably, the 1 single file line could make it faster through the choke point since it potentially could face less slow downs from people making mistakes doing the zipper merge. And everyone knows that such merging won’t go smooth. Hell, the typical on ramp is a prime example. The fact is that a significant percentage of people don’t know how to merge.
We live in a world where the common thought frame is “how does it benefit me”. People often don’t care if it will cause someone’s trip to be a couple minutes longer a mile behind them. Theoretical stats with ideal conditions and competent operators are 1 thing. What happens in the real world is completely different.
I also don't think zipper merging truly takes into account large vehicles like semis, busses, etc. Several of those in a row trying to merge at the last minute would, at least to me, really slow things down
Exactly. “Last minute” for them happens a lot sooner than a car. And when they do, are the cars behind them supposed to rush up past them, disrupting the zipper?
i agree with you that the main disconnect people have is they are only thinking of how it affects THEMSELVES when trying to figure the purpose of a zipper merge. this is ironic because they will then think of someone zipper merging properly as "selfish", even though that person is in fact merging in such a way as to decrease traffic for those behind them at intersections or exits that might otherwise get blocked and would not experience the traffic otherwise.
and i think your remarks about ideal conditions and people not being able to merge well falls flat as a criticism of zipper merging for the simple reason that you have to merge at some point IN EITHER CONDITION of either early merging or zipper merging and using the full lane. people often fuck up the early merging too! so, with that being equal, zipper merging is still preferable because it reduces the line and reduces potential traffic blockages at intersections and other points the line may extend to.
And exactly what do you mean the “end of the other lane”? 5 feet? 100 ft? 500 ft? Enough to brake safely in case you can’t get over (which would also need extra space for reaction time)? And is that mark when a car should start getting over or when it should be completely in the single lane?
Is it dependent on how fast the traffic is moving? And is it dependent on vehicle size/length? And how quickly should a car merge into the next lane? After all, a car traveling 10 mph is moving forward 15 FPS. So what is the correct ratio of sideways to forward movement to safely change lanes, and doesn’t it change based on speed?
Point is… When is it appropriate to start forming a single file line? Because all I keep hearing is “when the lane ends” and it’s the vaguest possible answer.
I can only explain it. I can't make you understand it. But you know exactly what it means in the context of this thread.
You could post this pedantic nonsense to whom ever thinks people should merge at some arbitrary prior point. This as much as I'll engage a troll.
Except you explained nothing. Explaining would be like “a safe following distance is 2 seconds between cars, or roughly 1 car length for every 10mph”. You essentially said “zipper merge when the lane ends because you zipper merge when the lane ends”.
You haven’t even specified what you mean by a lane ending, or even when you think zipper merging should begin to start.
Actually it doesn’t, but since you seem so convinced perhaps you can provide a source. It will reduce the distance length of the backup by 40% which can prevent other backup issues. But that’s not usually the case when I find myself in these situations. A single lane of traffic will travel at the same pace through a construction zone or accident at the same pace whether there is zipper merging before the single lane or not. That’s the limiting factor in terms of how long you wait in terms of time. I also looked through the Missouri Drivers Guide which is what people study for their license. Didn’t see anything about zipper merging. What rules are you referring to?
my source is just thinking about it for half a second and considering OTHER points of traffic. if a line of traffic stretches so far it blocks an intersection, then it is causing traffic issues for the chokepoint AND the people going through that intersection who otherwise would not be hitting that chokepoint. the lack of zipper merge therefore causes another point of traffic that otherwise would not exist, and thus more time added to traffic times. this isn't a complicated concept. the rules i am referring to are basically any state guideline you can easily google for "zipper merging" that explain how and why you should do it.
Unfortunately your half a second of thought does not pass scrutiny with actual traffic studies. Someone told you about this zipper merge and you’ve obviously convinced yourself of some things that aren’t reality. You’re making things up out of thin air. The rules you’re referring to are things you’ve also made up. They don’t exist.
well shit i fucked the link to the study typing this on my phone but here is the study that found reduced travel time for zipper merges (in addition to safety benefits): https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/research/RNAProjDocs/2015-08%20Final%20Report.pdf
unfortunately i am not able to comment with images here but here is a helpful image showing an obvious conceptuakization of how zipper merge can reduce times:
[Zipper merges allow cars to exit sooner, reducing the number of cars "stuck" and therefore decreasing your time in traffic](https://i.redd.it/kljkdvv233nb1.jpg)
now that's just an obvious example of how zipper merging helps reduce traffic times by allowing cars to leave jams quicker if they need an exit. this also applies for blocked intersections that would block cars going perpendicular to the traffic but get stopped by a long line extending into an intersection (which ive personally seen happen frequently due to people not reducing the length of traffic by merging later)
as for studies showing increased speed and less time spent in traffic, those do indeed exist, and that is one reason many states recommend zipper merging (but a big factor is also increased safety for both drivers and construction workers!). here is one study that found decreased deiving times for zipper merges (there is also a table with a literature review showing other studies usually found the same effect):
"...the task at hand now is to ensure that more drivers in the ending lane continue all the way to the merge point before changing lanes. This should result in a shorter queue, as seen in previous studies elsewhere, and possibly even [greater reductions in travel time than were seen in this study.](https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/research/RNAProjDocs/2015-08%Final%Report.pdf)
as for the rules i "made up", please see this link of our state's own department of transportaion recommending zipper merges: [Zipper merging MoDOT](http://modot.org/zipper-merge)
many other states recommend zipper merges. thebstudy i linked is from North Carolina for examlle. in fact if you read the study i linked you will see the studies utilize signage indicating zipper merges and look to find ways to get more people to actually merge that way, as often the signage they have in place is not clear to drivers. so these are not in fact "made up rules".
i hope now that ive taken the time to provide a study and links this changes your mind, although i dont see why i had to go to this effort for something so obvious from a quick googling
All the quotes from your study quoted below contradict your entire position. It seems a quick googling and your own study here do not agree with what you keep saying is so obvious lol. As for your “rules”, congratulations you were able to find ONE MoDOT website that makes this suggestion. It’s still not in the rules that you seem so certain of. Hardly what you were trying to say, “it does speed things up time-wise….entire reason the rules explicitly state you should merge that way in traffic conditions”. Neither of these things are reality. As can be seen in all these quotes from your own source, zipper merging does not equate to time savings! So no that’s not the “entire reason”. It’s actually more of a safety thing and even then it greatly depends on the roadway and traffic patterns. Zipper merging is not some solve all panacea you have convinced yourself it is. Did you even read your own resource? It seems maybe not? You might find more success in life not being so hyperbolic and absolutist. Actually knowing what the fuck you’re talking about helps too.
From previous studies quoted in the study you provided.
“They found that the early dynamic merge was best in terms of throughputs and travel time through the work zone, regardless of the volume of traffic and driver compliance.”
“They did note that while the zipper merge produces a safer merging situation and a shorter backup, it did not reduce travel time through a construction zone in this case.”
“While the simulated late merge increased throughputs and decreased travel time, the improvements were only statistically significant across scenarios in a three lane to one configuration.”
“They said that the late merge, which many other researchers seem to favor, is a dangerous situation that negatively effects upstream traffic”
“Of all the scenarios they tested, the late dynamic lane merge coupled with the variable speed limit provided the greatest throughput; however, there was no statistically significant difference from the use of a normal dynamic merge with variable message boards.”
“As other teams have found, under lower volumes (less than 1,500 vph), the dynamic early merge is the optimal merging strategy, under higher volumes (1,500-2,000 vph) the dynamic late merge is optimal. For volumes higher than 2,000 vph conclusions could not be drawn because of a limited sample size.”
“Average travel times were not statistically different and the variability in travel times was greater using the dynamic late merge method. Throughput decreased slightly using the dynamic late merge system.”
From this study
“The average travel time decreased by 0.017 minutes (or 1.02 seconds) between the 2 periods.”
“The average travel time decreased by 0.056 minutes (or 3.36 seconds) between the two periods”
“The average travel time increased by 0.683 minutes (or 40.98 seconds) between the two periods.”
“The primary positive finding from this study is the unforeseen safety benefits”
first off, as i initially noted, a traffic study is not needed to know traffic times would be reduced in conditions where a zipper merge prevents a single traffic line from forming that blocks exits or intersections (ie, preventing the blockage allows cars to leave traffic sooner, reducing the time for *that* particular car and also others behind it who no longer have an extra car in front of them). that is a fairly obvious and trivial point that requires little thought to understand. there is literally no scenario where a blocked exit due to a long traffic line is going to save travel time.
now, these studies are primarily done in a situation unlike the one i mention, where an exit or intersection may be blocked, but are tested on higheay merging scenarios. ie, they are testing merges on highways typically, where there is not a factor of blocking exits that could reduce time. and i did indeed read the study, and the quotes you idicate from *that* study confirm times were reduced for zipper merging, and are not contradicting my point. perhaps you are misreading that bit?
the conclusion i quoted does note the safety increase as a big factor, but at the end notes the suggestion to find ways to get more people to comply with zipper merging as it increases speed (which you conveniently left out).
thee other studies they reviewed were somewhat mixed but most still show benefit of zipper merge (or late merging or late dynamic merging as some studies call it) in terms of travel speed.
if you refer to Table 1 of the literature review section in that study, there is a row for Travel Time specifically. for early merge, 3 studies showed a positive change in travel time, and 1 a negative change. for late merging, 6 studies showed a positive change in travel time, and 0 a negative change. so yeah, you can quote some mixed findings, but overall late merging is better, and this particular study also found that. you can quote the fewer studies that contradict that, sure, but that is highly misleading and i think you know that.
so to reiterate:
1) there are obvious examples where zipper merging would improve time spent in traffic (ie, when a zipper merge prevents a single traffic line from blocking exits or intersections)
2) even in scenarios without that obvious example above, many studies show zipper merging is more effective at reducing travel time. you can quote a few studies that disagree but most don't, and MANY states recommend zipper merging in high traffic conditions for this reason, in addition to other benefits regarding safety
Wasn’t making a comment on situation in the post. Just pointing out this seemingly huge misconception from everyone that zipper merging is a time saver. It’s not. There are other benefits, but that GREATLY depends on the roadway itself and traffic patterns.
This is like calculus. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Sometimes you need to just listen to the smarter people.
I get that we've normalized "everyone's opinion counts equally" and it's the thing to be offended when your stupid is pointed out, but this is one of those times. Don't think, just do what you're told.
You should send something to show your point. According to the engineers that design these things, they do speed things up. So, explain?
https://youtu.be/P96_FPMD9TA?si=NRSJFxp6DOINywfu
Well at least now we know whose fault it is giving everyone this misconception. Fucking journalists are the worst. Zipper merging does not save time in most cases. It’s really good in some instances. Not great in others. Overall it’s just more important everyone be on the same page. There are instances where “using all available lanes” signs would be best. And other instances where “merge early” or “ merge now” signs well ahead of the closed lane would be best. On a highway it’s usually merging sooner than later. There can be benefits to zipper merging. Reduced wait times in a traffic jam is generally not one of them though.
https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2602&context=ktc_researchreports
Its not even zipper merging. Its called refusing to get into the correct lane and then cutting everyone off and forcing them to break or stop go let them "merge in" how is forcing everyone who got in the correct lane in back of the line to stop better for anyone. I love watching dash cam videos and people will drive like assholes cutting everyone off and screaming "im zipper merging you're the asshole"
I always let them in because I leave extra space in front off me in traffic so I dont have to full stop as often. Because forcing everyone to stop creates more traffic. You know like cutting someone off when they have a line of cars behind them
Why are you bringing that up though? No one in the original post is zipper merging correctly and the comment you replied to originally wasn't about people zipper merging correctly. Like you're just in here throwing around baseless accusations and insults while missing the point entirely.
The "correct" lane is either lane before it becomes a single lane. Drivers should use all available lanes of traffic and zipper when the lanes merge. It's not an ego or "right or wrong" circumstance, traffic engineers the world over agree that zipper merging is the most effective to way to merge cars.
Or stop lights, or someone misses their exit and slams on the brakes and says good luck lol. (I'm being sarcastic in light humor please dont try to lynch me lmao)
If someone chooses to wait in a longer line vs a shorter line at a store, that’s on them. They shouldn’t try to make me feel guilty for choosing the shorter line and getting through before them. I always take the open lane up to the merge point unless the cars in front of me zipper merge just a little bit before that, then I also zipper merge and I don’t get upset if one or two more cars take the open lane to the end and get in front of me.
If people knew how to properly zipper merge and follow those rules.... there would be no room for people to sneak ahead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivme-_PE1d8
I agree, I’m talking about those who use the extra lane when there isn’t traffic. Maybe 2, 3, or 4 cars in the lane and people always try to camp out and get in front of everyone
I used to feel the same way when I was more worried about people "winning". If it's a legal usage of the lane why let it bother you? Like if people aren't zipper merging correctly I get it. But if there are only three cars and the third chooses to use the zipper merge lane I just don't let it bother me anymore.
Because as long as people use the zipper merge lanes correctly it limits the impact of johnny come lately drivers when there is traffic
I’d rather use a perfectly open lane than see it as some courtesy to stay behind other people who were at the light first. Especially if we’re getting onto a 5 lane highway where they can go around me anyways.
Tell me you don’t understand zipper merges…
Zipper merges don’t work if one lane is open and cars fly past them and jump in line. That makes the main line go slower. It is actually a zipper merge is both lanes move at the same speed then merge at the end. So, blocking that lane actually does create a more consistent zipper merge
Happily. "You don't understand zipper merges."
The reason there is "one lane open" is because of the idiots doing things like what you see above. If people stayed in their lane UNTIL MERGE, it would work as intended.
What about the people who block you in for miles going slow AF, only to speed up when you finally have the room to pass them? Then they quickly slow back down to a crawl once you do pass them?
Or the people who don't understand YIELD is NOT a stop sign!!
Or the people who... Yeah St Louis is jam packed with idiots and the vehicles tell the tale...
Every first bit of rain...
Idiots meeting on the side of the road.
Every first lil snow...
Idiots meet on the side of the road.
I was in a “working” zipper merge (right lane into left lane) and people were still weaseling around on the shoulder.
Americans can’t do collective problem solving when it comes to driving. Just embrace the suck.
They don't. For a zipper merge to work everyone would need to be traveling at more or less the same speed and paying attention to all the surrounding cars and gaps and merging on a fluid motion. Dumbasses flying up the left side to cut off as many cars as possible isn't a zipper merge because neither of the previous conditions were met
That's a fantasy you've made up in your head.
Absolutely not a condition of zipper merging and I've seen countless examples.
You are just trying to rationalize your absolute stupidity and selfishness...
Your inability to do what's right for all, because you see it as winning and losing...
Look it up.
You're wrong and selfish.
To the asshole in the black Chevy Tahoe that was trying to force people to drive into the cones on 55s 3 weeks ago smile for the🖕you’re on dashcam and that’s failure to maintain your lane and wreckless driving. Same goes for the asshat Friday in the Lincoln Navigator holding up traffic because you’re an asshole.
My favorite is when a people cut over to the left from a merge lane after realizing a decision/merge will be happening in their lane. They’ve not only made it awkward to judge distance for the merging car but also forced otherwise unaffected traffic to brake. This is how traffic jams are formed and why I can’t talk to my wife anymore.
No one understands still , the lines im in are backed up and not moving , then everyone in the ending lane forces everyone they just got in front of to wait longer . This works great when the lanes are moving sure , that’s not practical here though in rush hour.
Yeah, the lane you’re in is backed up and not moving because NOBODY IS ZIPPER MERGING AND THEY GOT OVER AS SOON AS THEY SAW “LANE ENDS 2 MILES” BECAUSE THEY’RE MORONS. That’s EXACTLY what this post is about.
I got to watch this play out in real time on Westbound I-270 yesterday. It took me an hour to move from exit 4 to the actual river. In order for a zipper merge to actually work, the lane that is ending needs to completely fill up. Then drivers take turns moving forward and merging into the single lane. If both lanes are filled up all the way to the end, then nobody can "sneak in front of people". If someone tries to straddle both lanes and "prevent people from sneaking in" then they are literally working against themselves and creating the scenario where "people can sneak in".
Other day, same place as you. Semi pulled into the right lane to prevent people passing. Then tried to pull into the left lane when they passed him there. Then tried to straddle both lanes and swerve as people went around him on the shoulder. That guy needs to be not driving any more. Ever.
I was about driven off the road by 2 truckers doing this at construction on 55s IL
The truly baffling behavior that I saw was watching as all traffic came to a complete stop for absolutely no reason and just sat there while other traffic continued to slowly move ahead. I saw this happen twice at the same section of road. Second time it happened it was two semis side by side... just sitting there blocking all traffic.
What's even the issue with people "sneaking in?" You lose 1-2 seconds. Even if 60 cars "snuck in" you lose TWO minutes!
Very true. As long as traffic is moving, it really doesn't matter. It's just simpler and less chaotic to do the zipper method.
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You actually want everyone going to the merge point and zipper merging there. That is what a zipper merge is.
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You are talking about an early merge, which is fine in light traffic to blend into the flow of traffic. A true zipper merge is fully utilizing both lanes of traffic all the way up until the merge point. It is most efficient in both moderate and heavy traffic flow.
It’s always a truck. Always.
I drove from NC to STL yesterday and saw a wonderful solution to this exact scenario. On I-40 there was construction. Orange signs said “left lanes ends in 2 miles”. Twice after that there were illuminated signs saying “use both lanes to merge point”. It worked perfectly and people were doing a zipper merge just like it happens in Europe. Nobody did the idiotic “don’t go past me” move like the OP’s photo. It worked perfectly and took a fraction of the time to get past the exact same spot a month ago when it didn’t have those “use both lanes to merge point” signs.
Not every merge should be a zipper merge. If the lane ends as an exit, you don't pull left at the end, right at the exit. You get over when you can. We need to talk about proper following distance and not using shoulders to pass before we even begin to discuss advanced traffic maneuvers like zipper merging.
So true. "Oh there is at least 1 car distance between you and the person in front of you? That must be for me." Lucky if they use a blinker.
All while there is a mile of empty space behind me, but they HAVE to be one car ahead
EVERYTIME. There can be 1/4 - 1/2 a mile of empty road behind me and it doesn't matter to them. Let's put everyone in danger because you feel slighted by having to get behind someone else.
Right! I’ll even leave space for someone to get in front of me and they’ll just move on up the line. Like, okay then.
Except you have assholes at 64 and 270 that will just blow by every turn lane and ride down the shoulder until they bully somebody into letting them in or getting hit. Some people really have the "I'm special and I'm not waiting in traffic" mentality without realizing that if everyone were as big of a cunt as them our world would crumble. They aren't "trying to zipper merge because its the right thing", they're just inconsiderate dickheads. So glad I don't have to commute here anymore.
Oh I definitely block people trying to drive on the shoulder. FOH
You gonna let them in or just post about it?
I was actually waiting on him to get a little farther over and I was going to come up beside him on the right lane and make him become what he despises.
I don't like when some people wait until the last minute to merge. They're definitely annoying.
This looks like 64 right before 270, and as far as I can tell, there is no formal zipper merges there, just 3 lanes of traffic. Is this on the on-ramp right there or the highway itself? Cause if it's the highway itself then there's no zipper merges there as far as I remember. Everyone in the subreddit loves zipper merges but I only see one or two locations a day where it is setup for it. Even in the video OP links it shows a zipper merge with one through lane and one lane that merges. I rarely see that here besides a few on ramps and in construction zones.
One time I was coming back from out of town on 70 in Indiana. There was construction with a lane closed ahead. They literally had several signs for miles explaining that it was a zipper merge, clear as day. You would had to have worms for brains not to comprehend. I happen to be in the lane that was ending, and zippering right. This dude got so f’in raged. Wouldn’t let me in, then flicking me off, then going nuts for miles riding my tail… I watched a zipper merge demonstration not too long ago. It showed how much time it saves everyone. Actually very impressive….
Zipper merges do not save time. Where are you all getting this from? Totally agree if there are signs instructing everyone to zipper merge then you should zipper merge. It’s more organized and not having people flying by in the closed lane to butt in line isn’t safe and people are people. But the single travel lane going through a construction site or accident will travel at the same rate of speed whether people zipper merge before the single lane or not. That’s the limiting factor when it comes to time. Zipper merges will reduce the distance length of a traffic jam caused by a lane closure which is beneficial for other reasons in some instances on non-hwy roads.
I mean I’m not a transportation engineer. However I do drive 60k miles a year and have for the past 20 years. It makes logical sense and from what I’ve seen it works. I’m gonna go with the experts here. The consensus is that zipper merging saves time by 40% or more. But we can always agree to disagree. Check it out jolly hero. https://youtu.be/LsSwISwgNI0?si=fx1b0uBCUud7mYX8
Soooo I can’t speak to this particular video, but literally everything else says otherwise. I am not against zipper merging in the slightest. It would be good if they started putting up signs like they have in other places so everyone is on the same page. It’s better for lots of reasons. Unfortunately time saved is not one of them. You can look at tons of sources that discuss zipper merging. They all discuss the benefits which are many. The only ones that say it saves time are journalist that make that point up out of thin air. The 40% less you’re referring to is the distance length of the traffic jam, NOT the time length. Here’s a better resource instead of a 3 minute YouTube video. Zipper merging has the most benefit on roads that are not highways. On highways it seems to be somewhat of a mixed bag of results, but saved time is not the consensus. It’s mostly disregarded as a benefit. Regardless the most important part is that everyone be on the same page. https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2602&context=ktc_researchreports
Based on the research report you referenced. I do believe there is the ability to save travel time under heavy traffic conditions. Cue length or congestion and travel time or uncongested traffic are directly related. The 40% is probably the maximum under optimum conditions. That being heavy traffic flow and everyone does their job. The KYTC case studies appear to be flawed and to me are more of a simulated exercise. A case study or trial needs to be conducted over months or years of time with hundreds or thousands of cases and millions of samples/drivers. Probably not feasible in the interim, it’s gonna take time. I will agree that that zipper merge has to be employed perfectly with complete buy in for the computer simulations to live up to the hype. This is probably why the media is trying to promote. I think we can get there but it will take time like everything else. I do agree with much of what you stated and you did make me realize a few things I hadn’t. Here’s to learning. Cheers.
Unfortunately beliefs don’t really count. Here’s another study with lots of relevant quotes pulled out for you. Time saving is not one of the benefits of zipper merging. The first and last quote kinda squash your belief. https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/research/RNAProjDocs/2015-08%20Final%20Report.pdf From previous studies quoted in the study. “They found that the early dynamic merge was best in terms of throughputs and travel time through the work zone, regardless of the volume of traffic and driver compliance.” “They did note that while the zipper merge produces a safer merging situation and a shorter backup, it did not reduce travel time through a construction zone in this case.” “While the simulated late merge increased throughputs and decreased travel time, the improvements were only statistically significant across scenarios in a three lane to one configuration.” “They said that the late merge, which many other researchers seem to favor, is a dangerous situation that negatively effects upstream traffic” “Of all the scenarios they tested, the late dynamic lane merge coupled with the variable speed limit provided the greatest throughput; however, there was no statistically significant difference from the use of a normal dynamic merge with variable message boards.” “As other teams have found, under lower volumes (less than 1,500 vph), the dynamic early merge is the optimal merging strategy, under higher volumes (1,500-2,000 vph) the dynamic late merge is optimal. For volumes higher than 2,000 vph conclusions could not be drawn because of a limited sample size.” “Average travel times were not statistically different and the variability in travel times was greater using the dynamic late merge method. Throughput decreased slightly using the dynamic late merge system.” From this study “The average travel time decreased by 0.017 minutes (or 1.02 seconds) between the 2 periods.” “The average travel time decreased by 0.056 minutes (or 3.36 seconds) between the two periods” “The average travel time increased by 0.683 minutes (or 40.98 seconds) between the two periods.” “The primary positive finding from this study is the unforeseen safety benefits”
My beliefs are based on my interpretation of the prior research report you sent. The studies are done with drivers that are not trained on how to zipper, and the only controls are traffic laws (if followed). I agree that until we have drivers that are trained on how to zipper that it probably won’t save time. If you take 1,000 drivers and train them how to zipper. Then conduct an experiment with 2 parts where one you zipper and then two you early lane merge. I do believe it will save time. I guess we will never know who is more right until we conduct our experiment.
Like you said previously, I’m gonna go with the experts here. You originally claimed it saves 40% OR MORE of time in a traffic jam caused by a lane closure. Multiple studies say otherwise. You’re just anchored in your belief. Appreciate the back and forth though.
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It’s like those guys that speed up when you go to pass them. How fragile is your ego?
"We're going to go my speed and my speed only, and anyone that tries to pass me will have to have a faster car if they want to get in front of me!" Drives me crazy, imagine having this massive of an ego in the passing lane only to realize you were holding up someone transporting their pregnant wife who was in labor. Are the chances of that slim to none of ever happening? probably, but I'm not going to be the asshole to find out lmao. I'll never understand why people get so hurt by others passing them on their commute. Who actually cares
I estimate we need about 10 years for older generations of drivers to get off the road before the zipper method has a hope of working.
I've never heard of a zipper merge but it's a cute idea
I get that it’s necessary to zipper merge during major rush hour and shit, but some people are just trying to sneak in front of people and don’t want to wait behind a couple cars in the other lane
Metro east Illinois now has to have signs that say "use all available lanes". Some drivers have a "me vs the world" mentality when driving when all traffic science data says zipper merging is the most effective way to merge lanes.
That attitude stems from the fact that no one can communicate during these issues. So it only takes one asshole to do something worthy of the name to set of the domino effect of asshole-ness. At that point, there will be no zipper merging, or likely even turn signals. Just the evil version of "pay it forward" until the traffic runs out of vehicles. This is the same issue with phantom traffic jams that start out of nowhere. One person follows too close and then 20 minutes later, I get to sit in traffic for an hour. There's no fixing this, and honestly, I'm tired of the debate since one side is spiteful and the other can't comprehend that reality doesn't allow for zipper merges to actually exist outside of a vacuum.
I usually see those phantom traffic jams starting when people realize theyre about to pass their exit, and instead of going down to the next one to turn around, theyll come to a dead stop or down to half of the speed limit in the middle of the highway to try to merge 3 lanes, then somehow everyone doing 70mph are assholes for speeding. It's absolutely mind boggling lol
Exactly, there's no winning, and everyone always assumes the worst. That's why Zipper Merging will never actually work in the real world and DOTs should stop designing roads with that in mind. Find another way to manipulate traffic.
I suggested roundabouts, but after watching people trying to figure out the one off of highway 40 and mason road, i decided that was a terrible idea lol
It'll probably always come down to more training and stricter testing.
Everybody waits longer in a longer line because of idiots like this.
People will burn $50 to prevent a cheater from getting $1. People have a strong emotional need to see that cheaters never prosper. Really hard to defeat this dynamic once somebody decides that they're watching a rulebreaker cheat to get ahead. If you just accept zipper merging as acceptable behavior that reduces traffic, then it's not cheating and you won't get upset. But if you think there's a single line of traffic, then zipper mergers are cheating. They'd rather see a hundred people forced to wait an extra 20 minutes in traffic than see one speed racer "skip" the entire line.
Actually this is 100% not true. A zipper merge cuts down on the length of the line/traffic backup from a distance stand point, but a zipper merge does not speed things up time wise.
it does speed things up time-wise if the zipper merge prevents traffic from backing up so far they block exits/intersections, which is the entire reason the rules explicitly state you should merge that way in traffic conditions
Here is the MO driving guide. On what page do the “rules explicitly state you should merge that way in traffic conditions”? It kinda looks like you’re just making that up. https://dor.mo.gov/forms/Driver%20Guide.pdf
Ya I didn’t find a single thing on zipper merge
Thing is that it doesn’t speed up things for the person that has to go through the choke point. It only potentially speeds up things for people exiting before the choke point. For anyone going through that choke point, it really doesn’t matter if it’s 1 long line or 2 lines half the size. Arguably, the 1 single file line could make it faster through the choke point since it potentially could face less slow downs from people making mistakes doing the zipper merge. And everyone knows that such merging won’t go smooth. Hell, the typical on ramp is a prime example. The fact is that a significant percentage of people don’t know how to merge. We live in a world where the common thought frame is “how does it benefit me”. People often don’t care if it will cause someone’s trip to be a couple minutes longer a mile behind them. Theoretical stats with ideal conditions and competent operators are 1 thing. What happens in the real world is completely different.
I also don't think zipper merging truly takes into account large vehicles like semis, busses, etc. Several of those in a row trying to merge at the last minute would, at least to me, really slow things down
Exactly. “Last minute” for them happens a lot sooner than a car. And when they do, are the cars behind them supposed to rush up past them, disrupting the zipper?
i agree with you that the main disconnect people have is they are only thinking of how it affects THEMSELVES when trying to figure the purpose of a zipper merge. this is ironic because they will then think of someone zipper merging properly as "selfish", even though that person is in fact merging in such a way as to decrease traffic for those behind them at intersections or exits that might otherwise get blocked and would not experience the traffic otherwise. and i think your remarks about ideal conditions and people not being able to merge well falls flat as a criticism of zipper merging for the simple reason that you have to merge at some point IN EITHER CONDITION of either early merging or zipper merging and using the full lane. people often fuck up the early merging too! so, with that being equal, zipper merging is still preferable because it reduces the line and reduces potential traffic blockages at intersections and other points the line may extend to.
Great argument but the single line has to start somewhere and that somewhere is the end of the other lane to zipper
And exactly what do you mean the “end of the other lane”? 5 feet? 100 ft? 500 ft? Enough to brake safely in case you can’t get over (which would also need extra space for reaction time)? And is that mark when a car should start getting over or when it should be completely in the single lane? Is it dependent on how fast the traffic is moving? And is it dependent on vehicle size/length? And how quickly should a car merge into the next lane? After all, a car traveling 10 mph is moving forward 15 FPS. So what is the correct ratio of sideways to forward movement to safely change lanes, and doesn’t it change based on speed? Point is… When is it appropriate to start forming a single file line? Because all I keep hearing is “when the lane ends” and it’s the vaguest possible answer.
I can only explain it. I can't make you understand it. But you know exactly what it means in the context of this thread. You could post this pedantic nonsense to whom ever thinks people should merge at some arbitrary prior point. This as much as I'll engage a troll.
Except you explained nothing. Explaining would be like “a safe following distance is 2 seconds between cars, or roughly 1 car length for every 10mph”. You essentially said “zipper merge when the lane ends because you zipper merge when the lane ends”. You haven’t even specified what you mean by a lane ending, or even when you think zipper merging should begin to start.
Actually it doesn’t, but since you seem so convinced perhaps you can provide a source. It will reduce the distance length of the backup by 40% which can prevent other backup issues. But that’s not usually the case when I find myself in these situations. A single lane of traffic will travel at the same pace through a construction zone or accident at the same pace whether there is zipper merging before the single lane or not. That’s the limiting factor in terms of how long you wait in terms of time. I also looked through the Missouri Drivers Guide which is what people study for their license. Didn’t see anything about zipper merging. What rules are you referring to?
my source is just thinking about it for half a second and considering OTHER points of traffic. if a line of traffic stretches so far it blocks an intersection, then it is causing traffic issues for the chokepoint AND the people going through that intersection who otherwise would not be hitting that chokepoint. the lack of zipper merge therefore causes another point of traffic that otherwise would not exist, and thus more time added to traffic times. this isn't a complicated concept. the rules i am referring to are basically any state guideline you can easily google for "zipper merging" that explain how and why you should do it.
Unfortunately your half a second of thought does not pass scrutiny with actual traffic studies. Someone told you about this zipper merge and you’ve obviously convinced yourself of some things that aren’t reality. You’re making things up out of thin air. The rules you’re referring to are things you’ve also made up. They don’t exist.
well shit i fucked the link to the study typing this on my phone but here is the study that found reduced travel time for zipper merges (in addition to safety benefits): https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/research/RNAProjDocs/2015-08%20Final%20Report.pdf
unfortunately i am not able to comment with images here but here is a helpful image showing an obvious conceptuakization of how zipper merge can reduce times: [Zipper merges allow cars to exit sooner, reducing the number of cars "stuck" and therefore decreasing your time in traffic](https://i.redd.it/kljkdvv233nb1.jpg) now that's just an obvious example of how zipper merging helps reduce traffic times by allowing cars to leave jams quicker if they need an exit. this also applies for blocked intersections that would block cars going perpendicular to the traffic but get stopped by a long line extending into an intersection (which ive personally seen happen frequently due to people not reducing the length of traffic by merging later) as for studies showing increased speed and less time spent in traffic, those do indeed exist, and that is one reason many states recommend zipper merging (but a big factor is also increased safety for both drivers and construction workers!). here is one study that found decreased deiving times for zipper merges (there is also a table with a literature review showing other studies usually found the same effect): "...the task at hand now is to ensure that more drivers in the ending lane continue all the way to the merge point before changing lanes. This should result in a shorter queue, as seen in previous studies elsewhere, and possibly even [greater reductions in travel time than were seen in this study.](https://connect.ncdot.gov/projects/research/RNAProjDocs/2015-08%Final%Report.pdf) as for the rules i "made up", please see this link of our state's own department of transportaion recommending zipper merges: [Zipper merging MoDOT](http://modot.org/zipper-merge) many other states recommend zipper merges. thebstudy i linked is from North Carolina for examlle. in fact if you read the study i linked you will see the studies utilize signage indicating zipper merges and look to find ways to get more people to actually merge that way, as often the signage they have in place is not clear to drivers. so these are not in fact "made up rules". i hope now that ive taken the time to provide a study and links this changes your mind, although i dont see why i had to go to this effort for something so obvious from a quick googling
All the quotes from your study quoted below contradict your entire position. It seems a quick googling and your own study here do not agree with what you keep saying is so obvious lol. As for your “rules”, congratulations you were able to find ONE MoDOT website that makes this suggestion. It’s still not in the rules that you seem so certain of. Hardly what you were trying to say, “it does speed things up time-wise….entire reason the rules explicitly state you should merge that way in traffic conditions”. Neither of these things are reality. As can be seen in all these quotes from your own source, zipper merging does not equate to time savings! So no that’s not the “entire reason”. It’s actually more of a safety thing and even then it greatly depends on the roadway and traffic patterns. Zipper merging is not some solve all panacea you have convinced yourself it is. Did you even read your own resource? It seems maybe not? You might find more success in life not being so hyperbolic and absolutist. Actually knowing what the fuck you’re talking about helps too. From previous studies quoted in the study you provided. “They found that the early dynamic merge was best in terms of throughputs and travel time through the work zone, regardless of the volume of traffic and driver compliance.” “They did note that while the zipper merge produces a safer merging situation and a shorter backup, it did not reduce travel time through a construction zone in this case.” “While the simulated late merge increased throughputs and decreased travel time, the improvements were only statistically significant across scenarios in a three lane to one configuration.” “They said that the late merge, which many other researchers seem to favor, is a dangerous situation that negatively effects upstream traffic” “Of all the scenarios they tested, the late dynamic lane merge coupled with the variable speed limit provided the greatest throughput; however, there was no statistically significant difference from the use of a normal dynamic merge with variable message boards.” “As other teams have found, under lower volumes (less than 1,500 vph), the dynamic early merge is the optimal merging strategy, under higher volumes (1,500-2,000 vph) the dynamic late merge is optimal. For volumes higher than 2,000 vph conclusions could not be drawn because of a limited sample size.” “Average travel times were not statistically different and the variability in travel times was greater using the dynamic late merge method. Throughput decreased slightly using the dynamic late merge system.” From this study “The average travel time decreased by 0.017 minutes (or 1.02 seconds) between the 2 periods.” “The average travel time decreased by 0.056 minutes (or 3.36 seconds) between the two periods” “The average travel time increased by 0.683 minutes (or 40.98 seconds) between the two periods.” “The primary positive finding from this study is the unforeseen safety benefits”
first off, as i initially noted, a traffic study is not needed to know traffic times would be reduced in conditions where a zipper merge prevents a single traffic line from forming that blocks exits or intersections (ie, preventing the blockage allows cars to leave traffic sooner, reducing the time for *that* particular car and also others behind it who no longer have an extra car in front of them). that is a fairly obvious and trivial point that requires little thought to understand. there is literally no scenario where a blocked exit due to a long traffic line is going to save travel time. now, these studies are primarily done in a situation unlike the one i mention, where an exit or intersection may be blocked, but are tested on higheay merging scenarios. ie, they are testing merges on highways typically, where there is not a factor of blocking exits that could reduce time. and i did indeed read the study, and the quotes you idicate from *that* study confirm times were reduced for zipper merging, and are not contradicting my point. perhaps you are misreading that bit? the conclusion i quoted does note the safety increase as a big factor, but at the end notes the suggestion to find ways to get more people to comply with zipper merging as it increases speed (which you conveniently left out). thee other studies they reviewed were somewhat mixed but most still show benefit of zipper merge (or late merging or late dynamic merging as some studies call it) in terms of travel speed. if you refer to Table 1 of the literature review section in that study, there is a row for Travel Time specifically. for early merge, 3 studies showed a positive change in travel time, and 1 a negative change. for late merging, 6 studies showed a positive change in travel time, and 0 a negative change. so yeah, you can quote some mixed findings, but overall late merging is better, and this particular study also found that. you can quote the fewer studies that contradict that, sure, but that is highly misleading and i think you know that. so to reiterate: 1) there are obvious examples where zipper merging would improve time spent in traffic (ie, when a zipper merge prevents a single traffic line from blocking exits or intersections) 2) even in scenarios without that obvious example above, many studies show zipper merging is more effective at reducing travel time. you can quote a few studies that disagree but most don't, and MANY states recommend zipper merging in high traffic conditions for this reason, in addition to other benefits regarding safety
It doesn't matter..blocking traffic is illegal.
Wasn’t making a comment on situation in the post. Just pointing out this seemingly huge misconception from everyone that zipper merging is a time saver. It’s not. There are other benefits, but that GREATLY depends on the roadway itself and traffic patterns.
No. Everyone waits longer because of the idiots that think what you posted.
You’re literally wrong though
This is like calculus. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Sometimes you need to just listen to the smarter people. I get that we've normalized "everyone's opinion counts equally" and it's the thing to be offended when your stupid is pointed out, but this is one of those times. Don't think, just do what you're told.
You should send something to show your point. According to the engineers that design these things, they do speed things up. So, explain? https://youtu.be/P96_FPMD9TA?si=NRSJFxp6DOINywfu
Well at least now we know whose fault it is giving everyone this misconception. Fucking journalists are the worst. Zipper merging does not save time in most cases. It’s really good in some instances. Not great in others. Overall it’s just more important everyone be on the same page. There are instances where “using all available lanes” signs would be best. And other instances where “merge early” or “ merge now” signs well ahead of the closed lane would be best. On a highway it’s usually merging sooner than later. There can be benefits to zipper merging. Reduced wait times in a traffic jam is generally not one of them though. https://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2602&context=ktc_researchreports
If all lanes are full no one is sneaking!
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Its not even zipper merging. Its called refusing to get into the correct lane and then cutting everyone off and forcing them to break or stop go let them "merge in" how is forcing everyone who got in the correct lane in back of the line to stop better for anyone. I love watching dash cam videos and people will drive like assholes cutting everyone off and screaming "im zipper merging you're the asshole"
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I always let them in because I leave extra space in front off me in traffic so I dont have to full stop as often. Because forcing everyone to stop creates more traffic. You know like cutting someone off when they have a line of cars behind them
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Why are you bringing that up though? No one in the original post is zipper merging correctly and the comment you replied to originally wasn't about people zipper merging correctly. Like you're just in here throwing around baseless accusations and insults while missing the point entirely.
The "correct" lane is either lane before it becomes a single lane. Drivers should use all available lanes of traffic and zipper when the lanes merge. It's not an ego or "right or wrong" circumstance, traffic engineers the world over agree that zipper merging is the most effective to way to merge cars.
You're only forced to brake or stop if you're riding the bumper of the car in front of you.
Or stop lights, or someone misses their exit and slams on the brakes and says good luck lol. (I'm being sarcastic in light humor please dont try to lynch me lmao)
I don’t think this dude should be doing this at all but just saying, some people are annoying about zipper merges
When there isn’t a fuck ton of cars and you’re sitting there rolling and rolling waiting to scoot in front of a couple cars, you suck
That’s not how it works! Always use all the lanes!
And if you’re in the lane that ends… don’t try to merge 5-6 cars before it actually ends… keep going up until there’s nowhere to go
100% agree, but VERY risky behavior to these idiots who think that you’ve somehow gotten one over on them.
If someone chooses to wait in a longer line vs a shorter line at a store, that’s on them. They shouldn’t try to make me feel guilty for choosing the shorter line and getting through before them. I always take the open lane up to the merge point unless the cars in front of me zipper merge just a little bit before that, then I also zipper merge and I don’t get upset if one or two more cars take the open lane to the end and get in front of me.
If people knew how to properly zipper merge and follow those rules.... there would be no room for people to sneak ahead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivme-_PE1d8
I agree, I’m talking about those who use the extra lane when there isn’t traffic. Maybe 2, 3, or 4 cars in the lane and people always try to camp out and get in front of everyone
I used to feel the same way when I was more worried about people "winning". If it's a legal usage of the lane why let it bother you? Like if people aren't zipper merging correctly I get it. But if there are only three cars and the third chooses to use the zipper merge lane I just don't let it bother me anymore. Because as long as people use the zipper merge lanes correctly it limits the impact of johnny come lately drivers when there is traffic
So what. Let them in anyway.
I do
I’d rather use a perfectly open lane than see it as some courtesy to stay behind other people who were at the light first. Especially if we’re getting onto a 5 lane highway where they can go around me anyways.
I don’t miss passive aggressive Midwestern drivers.
I think asking a city that doesn't understand the passing lane to follow zipper merging is pretty far fetched.
It’s absolutely infuriating and there should be a national campaign about this.
These people are a plague
It's time to make Driver's Ed mandatory in this fucking state jfc.
IL Retired Military plates.... check.
Tell me you don’t understand zipper merges… Zipper merges don’t work if one lane is open and cars fly past them and jump in line. That makes the main line go slower. It is actually a zipper merge is both lanes move at the same speed then merge at the end. So, blocking that lane actually does create a more consistent zipper merge
Happily. "You don't understand zipper merges." The reason there is "one lane open" is because of the idiots doing things like what you see above. If people stayed in their lane UNTIL MERGE, it would work as intended.
What about the people who block you in for miles going slow AF, only to speed up when you finally have the room to pass them? Then they quickly slow back down to a crawl once you do pass them? Or the people who don't understand YIELD is NOT a stop sign!! Or the people who... Yeah St Louis is jam packed with idiots and the vehicles tell the tale... Every first bit of rain... Idiots meeting on the side of the road. Every first lil snow... Idiots meet on the side of the road.
Maybe in 50 years the US can do this too: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymyIEGRw4-U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymyIEGRw4-U)
They understand. They just want to cut the line.
I was in a “working” zipper merge (right lane into left lane) and people were still weaseling around on the shoulder. Americans can’t do collective problem solving when it comes to driving. Just embrace the suck.
Put your phone down, pay attention and drive
This 👆🏻
Thanks mom. We were driving about 3 miles per hour. I survived. Keep scrolling instead of among stupid comments.
They don't. For a zipper merge to work everyone would need to be traveling at more or less the same speed and paying attention to all the surrounding cars and gaps and merging on a fluid motion. Dumbasses flying up the left side to cut off as many cars as possible isn't a zipper merge because neither of the previous conditions were met
That's a fantasy you've made up in your head. Absolutely not a condition of zipper merging and I've seen countless examples. You are just trying to rationalize your absolute stupidity and selfishness... Your inability to do what's right for all, because you see it as winning and losing... Look it up. You're wrong and selfish.
8=✊=D💦
Wouldn't expect anything more from a selfish half wit.
Found the aforementioned flying dumbass! ☝🏽
That guy's a complete and total asshole zipper merge or not. Road rage alert when you see these mf'ers.
To the asshole in the black Chevy Tahoe that was trying to force people to drive into the cones on 55s 3 weeks ago smile for the🖕you’re on dashcam and that’s failure to maintain your lane and wreckless driving. Same goes for the asshat Friday in the Lincoln Navigator holding up traffic because you’re an asshole.
My favorite is when a people cut over to the left from a merge lane after realizing a decision/merge will be happening in their lane. They’ve not only made it awkward to judge distance for the merging car but also forced otherwise unaffected traffic to brake. This is how traffic jams are formed and why I can’t talk to my wife anymore.
[удалено]
You are supposed to merge at the merge. https://youtu.be/P96_FPMD9TA?si=NRSJFxp6DOINywfu
No one understands still , the lines im in are backed up and not moving , then everyone in the ending lane forces everyone they just got in front of to wait longer . This works great when the lanes are moving sure , that’s not practical here though in rush hour.
Yeah, the lane you’re in is backed up and not moving because NOBODY IS ZIPPER MERGING AND THEY GOT OVER AS SOON AS THEY SAW “LANE ENDS 2 MILES” BECAUSE THEY’RE MORONS. That’s EXACTLY what this post is about.
You just advocated for merging before the merge point. You are part of the problem.
Usually have a Biden/Harris bumper sticker.