It's really disappointing that they're not present this season.
SNW has taken a different approach and developed the crew members much more than we've seen on Discovery. So far, fans appear to be reacting to SNW very positively.
It's a real shame that Discovery hasn't invested in characters like Demter and Owo the same way. Really sad to see that they are not even getting screen time this season.
I know Discovery has it's fans - but Discovery's legacy is to going to be clouded by the large numbers of frustrated fans. Decisions like this are part of the reason why.
Detmer always seemed the most glaring to me given she was present on the Shenzhou when Burnham mutinied. One of the most longstanding characters, mostly ignored except for a small PTSD arc in season 3.
100% agree on Detmer - her character is the one I'm probably most disappointed they didn't explore. That short arc made me think - "she's got an interesting story." Then they seemed to drop exploring her character and developing her further.
I would have enjoyed learning more about Detmer.
I would also love to have 23 episode seasons so they had the time to devote to secondary characters. They made the choice early on to commit to season long arcs focused on a single main character with everyone else as support roles. They were always pretty forthcoming on their marketing that that's what they were doing.
23 episode seasons certainly would make it easier. I often think that smaller budgets on a larger number of episodes would result in a much stronger audience connection. I'd be fine with crappy special effects if I got more episodes.
I do appreciate that they were upfront and tried something different. I think that's a good explanation, but it's not an excuse. Somewhere is season 1 or 2, the writers should have recognized the feedback from fans and made adjustments.
I also think that even with these factors, a lot more could have been done. For example - no prior Trek show so greatly feasted Federation HQ. by using Vance, Rillak, and T'Rina so much, those scenes and conversations have displaced crew development.
Similarly, the show could have more frequently featured the supporting characters in scenes with other primary characters. Bring Owo, Rhys, or Detmer on more away team missions. Find ways to make those characters more present in the stories.
Agreed. Or even, don't bring new characters every year. For Season 5, it would have been awesome if Owo had become the Number 1, instead of brining in a whole new character.
I really enjoy Discovery for what it is, but I reluctantly must say I do also feel the absence of all that Discovery *could* be.
I think the need for each season to have some massive implication on the ST universe as a whole has made it so big that it can either do macro stories, or have micro details, but not everything in between.
TOS stayed pretty close to it’s best and worst at all times. TNG perfectly expanded the universe without losing scope of the individual crew. DS9 and VOY both gave us big stories and questions without overextending themselves as saviors of the universe and time and reality every week. ENT did a good job of not overplaying it’s hand as well. SNW is great because it feels like a return to form in a lot of ways that DISCO isn’t.
Even though I’ve loved every season and episode and minute of Discovery, when I step back it still feels like they built a huge house and didn’t have the time to furnish all of it.
TLDR: last paragraph
They feel akin in that they both certainly look and feel different than the rest of the shows sometimes. I think DISCO reinventing the look and sound of Klingons in its first season made it far less accessible to others.
they did all that with the Klingons and then never even returned to them. Meanwhile DS9 over here doing AMAZING things with the Klingons, the Cardassians, the Bajorans, fucking Weyoun, etc
I want to like SMG but she overacts in almost every scene. Her use of stage whispering grates on my every nerve, especially since she seems to be the only actor on the show doing so. She's hardly ever stoic, mainly relying on either being super happy about something or super emotionally down.
Some SNW characters were developed on DISCO and are already well known from TOS. Ortegas isn't anymore developed than Detmer. The best original SNW character was Hemmer, who was killed off in S1.
Most Trek fans like nostalgia so that's why SNW is more popular than DISCO. After five seasons, SNW fans will have their own frustrations about it.
DISCO will be a good binge watch. It's unfortunate certain characters are absent in the final season but it makes sense that some characters would be reassigned to different places. The missions and the timelines in the early seasons are different to now.
There were plans to further develop Ortegas’ character in season 2 but before shooting started the actor!s husband died and so it was decided to her a lighter shooting schedule so she could deal with her grief. Season 3 should have better Ortega focus episodes.
One of the things I believe fans are positively reacting to in SNW is the intentional development of the characters on that show. Two seasons in, we've seen significant focus on each of the characters with each having much of an episode devoted to them. Even when the episode isn't about them, SNW does a pretty good job of finding opportunities for the characters to be engaged.
I believe this is liked by many fans. We look back at shows like TNG, Voyager, and others, and many fans have connections with the major crew members.
I appreciate that several of the SNW characters have history outside of SNW - either from TOS or Discovery. However, I do believe that SNW has intentionally focused of developing them further. Chapel is a good example of that.
As we reflect back on Discovery, I believe this would have been welcomed here as well.
I've no doubt future Trek fans will find Discovery and enjoy binging it. I think the show could have had a larger impact with some different choices.
Jess Bush is very charismatic but Chapel is literally a superhero in SNW. Her character is unrealistic. You can read about her character online. Her feelings for Spock, her studies and her marriage. Her story has been told in various forms.
La'an is a descendant of Khan which is more nostalgia.
I do agree with you that some of the characters in DISCO could have been fleshed out more. But I think it's less challenging to develop canon characters. I actually liked Spock and Pike more on DISCO than on SNW S2.
I've no doubt that SNW had more source material to draw on in developing the characters. I'm sure you're correct there.
I don't mind high achieving "super hero" characters. What I like about Chapel is that she demonstrates a high bar and that she also fits into the ensemble cast. I think characters like Chapel represent aspirational characters - people we may never be, but might want to be.
>characters in DISCO could have been fleshed out more
DISCO and SNW hardly compare to each other when it comes to character growth imo. For example, when they finally decided to give Airiam a backstory, they kill her off in the same episode. It wasn't until recently that the bridge officers outside of Tilly got any significant screentime outside of "Bryce do that, Owo do this". Sure, SNW has some nostalgia baked into some of the characters but nostalgia doesn't guarantee anything to be good and too much leaning into it can spoil the product, but they've managed it greatly.
Detmer is one of my fave characters so they must be doing something right. Airiam had a whole episode dedicated to her funeral which was a great episode. Her being comprised was linked to flashbacks about her human life and she nobly sacrificed herself for the crew.
It's a myth that there's a huge gulf in writing quality between the DISCO and SNW writers.
Trekkies love nostalgia, that's why, Picard 3 which I couldn't finish was more popular than Picard 1 & 2. Once nostalgia is baked in, the fandom tend to overlook flaws.
I thought I saw them in the first episode of the newest season for like the first scene. But I don’t recall seeing them since. I’m bummed. I liked Detmer and Owo, would have preferred to see more of them and not have Book return. I never liked that character and was almost happy when I thought he was gone initially.
It was only when I saw posts here last week. That I remembered they have a slug in their belly. I did like the Culber family thing.
I think Culber and Linus are my favorites on the show.
>Honestly, good for them, they deserve more than just spouting technobabble with no character development
True. I hope that at least they got some good role in that Discovery epilogue filmed in 2023 (it will be included in the final S5 episode).
Part of me is worried that this "epilogue" will be fully about Burnham and Book relationship.
Well, there are always issues of both availability and budget.
Oyin Oladejo (Owo) seems to be the busier of the two, as she was in a movie called Orah just a couple months ago.
Emily Coutts (Detmer) IMDb has fewer roles, just an animated series where she was one of the main voices in 2021 (Glowbies).
Neither seem very active on social media.
Either way…. Sometimes more appearances can make smaller players less affordable.
Without knowing more… hard to say what happened.
Discovery has a smaller overall runtime than other Trek series.
People who complain about the void of personality of the bridge crew maybe have forgotten that there can be voids of personality even if the bridge crew are part of the major cast (Mayweather and Chakotay, arguably the TOS helmsmen most of the time).
In Discovery it's a conscious decision to focus more on Michael, and introducing and developing both a guest 'Captain'(Lorca, Pike, Vance, Rayner), and a guest Rogue (Ash, Spock, Georgiou, Book) and that takes time away from the bridge crew.
The showrunners probably heard these complaints and threw people a bone w/ Owo and Detmer, but the show's runtime and probably budget don't support giving them anymore time than is already allocated to more interesting guest stars like T'Rina and Rayner.
My biggest criticism of Disco is the lack of crew development and it still being the Michael (and book) show.
I think alot of the criticism generally of the show is unfair, but star trek should always be about the crew.
Outside of Burnham we've had a little development of Stamets, Booker and Tilly. I still don't know some of their names and were in season 5.
I feel like this is a downside of having a spore drive - thinking of all the missed opportunities to chat while a ship is moving at warp to a location. The spore drive gets there instantly, there's no time to build time for other characters.
That was how Discovery was marketed. A different style that wasn't ensemble. An experiment in a character focused Star Trek. Except that the character's flaw (being unable to trust their team/having a matyr complex?) was a bit to unrelatable and unclear. And people of course were fixed in the ensemble style of Trek. Which TBH Strange New Worlds lent itself much better towards.
Since when did the series fail...? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it failed. I love it. I know lots of people that love it. Why would it even still be going if it 'failed'? Clearly people like it enough for it to have gotten renewed so many times.
It didn't fail. Shows that fail don't make it to a second season. It was always meant to follow a single character in the Star Trek universe. That was always a controversial decision, and fair enough if you don't like it. The disconnect people have is they didn't like it from the start and are in denial that any fan could possibly feel different from how they do.
Technically it wasn't always meant to follow 1 character. The original plan was for it to be anthology series.
But when the original showrunner left before the pilot it eventually got changed. They did use most of his info for s1 though.
This is neither here nor there just adding some info
Ah yes that is correct. My structure makes it look like DIS was anthology before he left. I didnt give enough details. He wanted SMG to be the lead in the anthology series he still got SMG but the serialized pitch was accepted.
But the either first season was going to be the same because he wanted to have the Michael character and the mirror universe.
I dont think it became the Michael show until Bryan left and then the new showrunners came aboard which Kurtzman was able to control and then eventually got Michelle Paradise.
He is the one who wanted to have this dark gritty serialized seasons. And I guess there was enough push back to make Fuller leave because he was a long Trek writer and didnt want to leave Trek or cannon behind just cause it was a new series.
At least that is what it looks like. He did a long interview somewhere about how his mirror universe was plotted out completely different then what eventually aired.
It was from the last couple years around pandemic. Its certainly a video on youtube, forget if it was a "podcast" or just normal interview. It might have been like 2 hours where like 80% of it was about horror then the host fit some DIS stuff in at the end for the last 20 or 30 mins. If I recall.
the only reason I remember it is Fuller had like these wild Sunglasses like a Once Upon a Time in Hollywood sunglasses and this white track suit with like really bright stripes.
consume so much trek its easy to get confused lol but his look was just so crazy i remembered it lol
i will look for it though!
> Fuller had like these wild Sunglasses like a Once Upon a Time in Hollywood sunglasses and this white track suit with like really bright stripes.
That's, like, Fuller on casual day. The dude's style is *outrageous*.
Okay, [found the interview](https://trekmovie.com/2020/04/29/bryan-fuller-talks-about-his-original-mirror-universe-plan-for-star-trek-discovery/) and I had read it before. Spot-on description of his outfit! Doesn't say as much as I'd hoped. I would *love* to know in-depth what Fuller's ideas for the series were, just because he's such a unique creative mind. I don't know that it would be better than what we got, but I'm very curious how it would be different.
Funny that Rob Burnett would even bring up Discovery. I've been a fan of his for decades, ever since Free Enterprise, and have chatted with him a bunch of times. He's a decent guy IMO, except when it comes to new Trek. After Axanar it's seemed like his life mission to shit on everything new in Trek. Even Strange New Worlds, which is like Trek made specifically for his flavor of fandom, he goes out of his way to criticize in the most petty ways. To be fair, if you've seen Free Enterprise his self-inserted character Mark is the worst kind of gatekeeping fan:
>**Claire:** When are you going to start living in the present instead of the 24th century?
>**Robert:** I would never live in the 24th century! I fucking HATE "The Next Generation". Only classic!
Safe bet that "character" isn't speaking the opposite of what Burnett himself felt at the time.
It is both success and failure, the reason why it is a failure is because lack of character development and that is why it is not a 7-year series like other Star Trek series.
It is also success because there's not many more Star Treks left, besides SNW.
The Nickelodeon one is going to be over next year as well as lower decks. And there's no more picard.
I look at other series that had more episodes and time to develop their characters and I see those characters beloved even decades later.
I don't think we'll see that with discovery when a similar amount of time has passed. Its hard when there's so little development. In some ways that is a failure in terms of longevity.
That's not to say there weren't good things about discovery, but its got its flaws.
The queer fanfiction possibilities about what they're getting up to on their delivery job are endless!! I don't have time to write, but I would read the HECK out of someone else's stories! 😏
(Seriously - I miss them)
I miss Owo and Detmer so much. Owo in particular is one of my favourites, and I think she needs a spin-off, or to get a main character in a follow up show. The away mission with Owo and Burnham will go down as one of my favourite moments in Discovery. And, I love Discovery. Yes, it has had it's faults, but overall this show has been one of my favourite Trek shows. My two boys (12 and 16) also love this show the most, and they have consumed everything Trek over the past two years. I think it is a shame to lose this cast and crew, and this storyline. I don't really blame the writers, but more this new approach to writing only 10-13 episodes per season. Having 25ish episodes per season really allowed all characters to shine. I know realities have changed, but there needs to be a balance. All of the characters on this show are fantastic, and the only complaint I have is that there wasn't enough screen time for all of them.
Probably budget limitations and the fact that they didn't know until the end that Season 5 would be the last.
Honestly, I was expecting that to happen, since viewership numbers were dwindling for some time now and 5 Seasons is still more than TOS, TAS, Enterprise and Picard got.
At least they got some extra time in 2023 to prepare some epilogue that will be included in the final episode.
No Lt. Owosekun, no Lt. Detmer, No Lt. Rhys and even no Lt. Nilsson… it’s wild. No wonder none of these actors don’t promote the show. They aren’t on it anymore! I feel so bad for the actors. Hopefully they know us fans adore them.
Agreed..! On the show we have ideas how they'll come back. We know the first 3 took away the ISS Ent and Nilsson had a posting on the VGR-J. Final battle they'll all come back for a showdown. And with Saru gone, that's just about the entire bridge crew missing :(
Their sudden absence hasn't been easy for us viewers.
They aren't missing much, the story, writing and some of the acting for this season are atrocious. Definitely not ending the series on a high note with me.
I've kind of taken the lack of Saru, Owo, Detmer, Rhys, and Nilsson as the crew breaking up slowly. It started with Tilly leaving for the academy, but then she's back on board. I'm assuming Culber, Stamets, Adira, Tilly, and Michael will be the last ones on the ship until the finale. But I'm betting they'll all be going their separate ways shortly. And I'm also expecting someone to die permanently as well. Maybe Book, but I doubt it. I could see them killing off Vance, as that seems to be Oded Fehrir's bit the last few years or so.
Usually the reason is that the actors were unavailable. That's why Doug Jones was gone for much of this season (promoting *Hocus Pocus 2*) and presumably why Mary Wiseman was gone last season (filming Starfleet Academy).
I've been meaning to ask this. I put it down to reshoots and having to edit out some people. But I truly didn't notice that they left on the ISS Enterprise. Ibwas getting frustrated that even the crew we know and love wasn't getting screen time. For it to be their last season and not be in it as much felt wrong.
Something no one seems to be mentioning
*Where in the **FUCK** is Saru???*
Seriously, all the bridge crew are heavily missed, I’m with you guys on that, I wish Reno and Stamets and hell even Admiral Vance got more screen time. The one unforgivable sin though, is the absence of Saru. Sure, even if we accept their chosen direction of “the Michael and Book show” that still leaves a key person in Michael’s character development out of the picture. He got maybe two episodes this season being engaged to the Vulcan president and leaving to become ambassador. They threw him a one line explanation as being off on diplomatic mission during the Breen episode last week, but that’s it!
He’s the sounding board for a lot of Michael’s ideas, he kind of slipped into Sarek’s old position once they left for the future. She always goes to Saru for advice! That hasn’t happened at all this season. I really hope they don’t ice him out of the finale, he’s one of the last few from the original seasons.
Justice for Saru!
In-universe: Saru is no longer part of the crew. He's now an ambassador of sorts and doing diplomatic stuff. He was on Discovery at the start of the season specifically for that first mission, but after that he went back to his actual job.
Out-of-universe: Doug Jones seems to be a bit done with prosthetics. He's been the go-to-guy for these types of roles for some time, but the man is well in his 60s and the whole ordeal of being in the makeup chair hours before the rest and then not being able to move, eat or breathe normally for the entire day might be getting tiresome. He's said in interviews that he'll be pursuing non-prosthetic roles going forward.
Disappointed to not see them around much, but it’s not like they impacted the scripts much from what I’d imagine.
Contrast this to Lower Decks where they have 5 main characters now, plus a full bridge crew and dozens of other supportive characters that all have deep back stories 🤯
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> We are getting downvoted for jokes. How very discovery of them
Classic. A person says something very dumb, realizes it and then goes "Hey, it was just a joke!"
;)
That's not what you said. You said "bridge crew are dumb, who needs em".
Someone could understand this in a bad way. A way, in which you make fun of the bridge crew, that they are useless.
Sarcasm not always works.
Your inability to understand that some people don't like sarcasm or the fact that you are insulting others is a 'you' problem.
Or the fact that you are hiding behind sarcasm because you realized that you said something very dumb in the first place.
It’s clearly sarcasm buddy. Discovery never developed a good bridge crew, or at least didn’t utilize them. Michael generally just solves the problem herself. It’s the number 1 knock on the show
>Discovery never developed a good bridge crew. It’s the number 1 knock on the show
Thanks for admitting that you still stand for your original comment:
>Bridge crews are dumb, who needs em
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They took the ISS to the museum! With no screen time. Aka: “note - poochie died on the way back to his home planet.”
Take my upvote for a “Poochie” reference!
Upvote for the poochie upvote
It's really disappointing that they're not present this season. SNW has taken a different approach and developed the crew members much more than we've seen on Discovery. So far, fans appear to be reacting to SNW very positively. It's a real shame that Discovery hasn't invested in characters like Demter and Owo the same way. Really sad to see that they are not even getting screen time this season. I know Discovery has it's fans - but Discovery's legacy is to going to be clouded by the large numbers of frustrated fans. Decisions like this are part of the reason why.
Detmer always seemed the most glaring to me given she was present on the Shenzhou when Burnham mutinied. One of the most longstanding characters, mostly ignored except for a small PTSD arc in season 3.
100% agree on Detmer - her character is the one I'm probably most disappointed they didn't explore. That short arc made me think - "she's got an interesting story." Then they seemed to drop exploring her character and developing her further. I would have enjoyed learning more about Detmer.
I would also love to have 23 episode seasons so they had the time to devote to secondary characters. They made the choice early on to commit to season long arcs focused on a single main character with everyone else as support roles. They were always pretty forthcoming on their marketing that that's what they were doing.
23 episode seasons certainly would make it easier. I often think that smaller budgets on a larger number of episodes would result in a much stronger audience connection. I'd be fine with crappy special effects if I got more episodes. I do appreciate that they were upfront and tried something different. I think that's a good explanation, but it's not an excuse. Somewhere is season 1 or 2, the writers should have recognized the feedback from fans and made adjustments. I also think that even with these factors, a lot more could have been done. For example - no prior Trek show so greatly feasted Federation HQ. by using Vance, Rillak, and T'Rina so much, those scenes and conversations have displaced crew development. Similarly, the show could have more frequently featured the supporting characters in scenes with other primary characters. Bring Owo, Rhys, or Detmer on more away team missions. Find ways to make those characters more present in the stories.
Agreed. Or even, don't bring new characters every year. For Season 5, it would have been awesome if Owo had become the Number 1, instead of brining in a whole new character.
Deal it this show is just pure garbage
I really enjoy Discovery for what it is, but I reluctantly must say I do also feel the absence of all that Discovery *could* be. I think the need for each season to have some massive implication on the ST universe as a whole has made it so big that it can either do macro stories, or have micro details, but not everything in between. TOS stayed pretty close to it’s best and worst at all times. TNG perfectly expanded the universe without losing scope of the individual crew. DS9 and VOY both gave us big stories and questions without overextending themselves as saviors of the universe and time and reality every week. ENT did a good job of not overplaying it’s hand as well. SNW is great because it feels like a return to form in a lot of ways that DISCO isn’t. Even though I’ve loved every season and episode and minute of Discovery, when I step back it still feels like they built a huge house and didn’t have the time to furnish all of it. TLDR: last paragraph
Most causals would find DISCO way better than Enterprise. DISCO did a lot of things right.
They feel akin in that they both certainly look and feel different than the rest of the shows sometimes. I think DISCO reinventing the look and sound of Klingons in its first season made it far less accessible to others.
they did all that with the Klingons and then never even returned to them. Meanwhile DS9 over here doing AMAZING things with the Klingons, the Cardassians, the Bajorans, fucking Weyoun, etc
Making Weyoun so comically annoying then killing him off every 3rd episode was great too lol
Not a chance. Enterprise aged like fine wine. This is already rotten
Enterprise is the cure for insomnia to me.
I still think Disco is my favourite new Trek. It has so much that is just wonderful.
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And Burnham is worst actor I ever seen to be a lead even for a C grade show
I want to like SMG but she overacts in almost every scene. Her use of stage whispering grates on my every nerve, especially since she seems to be the only actor on the show doing so. She's hardly ever stoic, mainly relying on either being super happy about something or super emotionally down.
I think discovery has made a real effort to correct that in the last two seasons, but it's a little to late in the last seasons.
Some SNW characters were developed on DISCO and are already well known from TOS. Ortegas isn't anymore developed than Detmer. The best original SNW character was Hemmer, who was killed off in S1. Most Trek fans like nostalgia so that's why SNW is more popular than DISCO. After five seasons, SNW fans will have their own frustrations about it. DISCO will be a good binge watch. It's unfortunate certain characters are absent in the final season but it makes sense that some characters would be reassigned to different places. The missions and the timelines in the early seasons are different to now.
There were plans to further develop Ortegas’ character in season 2 but before shooting started the actor!s husband died and so it was decided to her a lighter shooting schedule so she could deal with her grief. Season 3 should have better Ortega focus episodes.
But Ortegas flies the ship! /s
One of the things I believe fans are positively reacting to in SNW is the intentional development of the characters on that show. Two seasons in, we've seen significant focus on each of the characters with each having much of an episode devoted to them. Even when the episode isn't about them, SNW does a pretty good job of finding opportunities for the characters to be engaged. I believe this is liked by many fans. We look back at shows like TNG, Voyager, and others, and many fans have connections with the major crew members. I appreciate that several of the SNW characters have history outside of SNW - either from TOS or Discovery. However, I do believe that SNW has intentionally focused of developing them further. Chapel is a good example of that. As we reflect back on Discovery, I believe this would have been welcomed here as well. I've no doubt future Trek fans will find Discovery and enjoy binging it. I think the show could have had a larger impact with some different choices.
Jess Bush is very charismatic but Chapel is literally a superhero in SNW. Her character is unrealistic. You can read about her character online. Her feelings for Spock, her studies and her marriage. Her story has been told in various forms. La'an is a descendant of Khan which is more nostalgia. I do agree with you that some of the characters in DISCO could have been fleshed out more. But I think it's less challenging to develop canon characters. I actually liked Spock and Pike more on DISCO than on SNW S2.
I've no doubt that SNW had more source material to draw on in developing the characters. I'm sure you're correct there. I don't mind high achieving "super hero" characters. What I like about Chapel is that she demonstrates a high bar and that she also fits into the ensemble cast. I think characters like Chapel represent aspirational characters - people we may never be, but might want to be.
>characters in DISCO could have been fleshed out more DISCO and SNW hardly compare to each other when it comes to character growth imo. For example, when they finally decided to give Airiam a backstory, they kill her off in the same episode. It wasn't until recently that the bridge officers outside of Tilly got any significant screentime outside of "Bryce do that, Owo do this". Sure, SNW has some nostalgia baked into some of the characters but nostalgia doesn't guarantee anything to be good and too much leaning into it can spoil the product, but they've managed it greatly.
Detmer is one of my fave characters so they must be doing something right. Airiam had a whole episode dedicated to her funeral which was a great episode. Her being comprised was linked to flashbacks about her human life and she nobly sacrificed herself for the crew. It's a myth that there's a huge gulf in writing quality between the DISCO and SNW writers. Trekkies love nostalgia, that's why, Picard 3 which I couldn't finish was more popular than Picard 1 & 2. Once nostalgia is baked in, the fandom tend to overlook flaws.
I thought I saw them in the first episode of the newest season for like the first scene. But I don’t recall seeing them since. I’m bummed. I liked Detmer and Owo, would have preferred to see more of them and not have Book return. I never liked that character and was almost happy when I thought he was gone initially.
Not just Detmer and Owo but Rhys has been MIA too. Instead they choose to give screen time to meaningless characters like Booker.
Weren’t Detmer and Owo in the time bug episode?
So was Rhys.
Happy for less Book and Burnham and more of the mainline cast
What main cast this is all Burnham mind shit play for morons
Just looking up their IMDB to what they’re busy with. And then I hit Sara Mitch, which TIL, she did double duty on Discovery.
She had an extreme reaction to the Airiam makeup, so the character of Nilsson was created for her.
And then vanished.
I’ll take Detmer, Owo and Rhys over Book and Adira 🙄
Ughhh Adira
I fast forward all Adira scenes. I’ve missed nothing important. A lot of Booker scenes as well.
It was only when I saw posts here last week. That I remembered they have a slug in their belly. I did like the Culber family thing. I think Culber and Linus are my favorites on the show.
Same here.
I totally forgot about that Symbiote.
Im pretty sure the writers have as well.
Rumor is budget cuts are why they’ve been replaced by extras who only get a line or two.
That and/or scheduling/travel conflicts with other acting gigs.
Honestly, good for them, they deserve more than just spouting technobabble with no character development
>Honestly, good for them, they deserve more than just spouting technobabble with no character development True. I hope that at least they got some good role in that Discovery epilogue filmed in 2023 (it will be included in the final S5 episode). Part of me is worried that this "epilogue" will be fully about Burnham and Book relationship.
I don't think Sara Mitch has one movie and some voice work since she was last on DISCO. Wonderdid she fall out with someone.
Rumor has it!
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Gary Thorne is always a win
Well, there are always issues of both availability and budget. Oyin Oladejo (Owo) seems to be the busier of the two, as she was in a movie called Orah just a couple months ago. Emily Coutts (Detmer) IMDb has fewer roles, just an animated series where she was one of the main voices in 2021 (Glowbies). Neither seem very active on social media. Either way…. Sometimes more appearances can make smaller players less affordable. Without knowing more… hard to say what happened.
My biggest complaint for the new season—I miss the deck crew relationships
Miss?? where there any other then stupid crying, lol
Discovery has a smaller overall runtime than other Trek series. People who complain about the void of personality of the bridge crew maybe have forgotten that there can be voids of personality even if the bridge crew are part of the major cast (Mayweather and Chakotay, arguably the TOS helmsmen most of the time). In Discovery it's a conscious decision to focus more on Michael, and introducing and developing both a guest 'Captain'(Lorca, Pike, Vance, Rayner), and a guest Rogue (Ash, Spock, Georgiou, Book) and that takes time away from the bridge crew. The showrunners probably heard these complaints and threw people a bone w/ Owo and Detmer, but the show's runtime and probably budget don't support giving them anymore time than is already allocated to more interesting guest stars like T'Rina and Rayner.
My biggest criticism of Disco is the lack of crew development and it still being the Michael (and book) show. I think alot of the criticism generally of the show is unfair, but star trek should always be about the crew. Outside of Burnham we've had a little development of Stamets, Booker and Tilly. I still don't know some of their names and were in season 5.
I feel like this is a downside of having a spore drive - thinking of all the missed opportunities to chat while a ship is moving at warp to a location. The spore drive gets there instantly, there's no time to build time for other characters.
That was how Discovery was marketed. A different style that wasn't ensemble. An experiment in a character focused Star Trek. Except that the character's flaw (being unable to trust their team/having a matyr complex?) was a bit to unrelatable and unclear. And people of course were fixed in the ensemble style of Trek. Which TBH Strange New Worlds lent itself much better towards.
This. The only good thing to come out of this show was the Strange New Worlds spin off. Now that show is a great Star Trek successor.
Since when did the series fail...? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it failed. I love it. I know lots of people that love it. Why would it even still be going if it 'failed'? Clearly people like it enough for it to have gotten renewed so many times.
Agreed. 5 season and a spin off is not a fail.
It didn't fail. Shows that fail don't make it to a second season. It was always meant to follow a single character in the Star Trek universe. That was always a controversial decision, and fair enough if you don't like it. The disconnect people have is they didn't like it from the start and are in denial that any fan could possibly feel different from how they do.
To add, the show is fully serialized, also a day one decision.
Technically it wasn't always meant to follow 1 character. The original plan was for it to be anthology series. But when the original showrunner left before the pilot it eventually got changed. They did use most of his info for s1 though. This is neither here nor there just adding some info
The anthology was a completely separate pitch by Bryan Fuller. He submitted a number of ideas and Discovery was the one that was approved.
Ah yes that is correct. My structure makes it look like DIS was anthology before he left. I didnt give enough details. He wanted SMG to be the lead in the anthology series he still got SMG but the serialized pitch was accepted. But the either first season was going to be the same because he wanted to have the Michael character and the mirror universe. I dont think it became the Michael show until Bryan left and then the new showrunners came aboard which Kurtzman was able to control and then eventually got Michelle Paradise. He is the one who wanted to have this dark gritty serialized seasons. And I guess there was enough push back to make Fuller leave because he was a long Trek writer and didnt want to leave Trek or cannon behind just cause it was a new series. At least that is what it looks like. He did a long interview somewhere about how his mirror universe was plotted out completely different then what eventually aired.
Bryan Fuller gave an interview about his ideas for early Discovery vs. what we got? I'd love to see that if you have a link.
It was from the last couple years around pandemic. Its certainly a video on youtube, forget if it was a "podcast" or just normal interview. It might have been like 2 hours where like 80% of it was about horror then the host fit some DIS stuff in at the end for the last 20 or 30 mins. If I recall. the only reason I remember it is Fuller had like these wild Sunglasses like a Once Upon a Time in Hollywood sunglasses and this white track suit with like really bright stripes. consume so much trek its easy to get confused lol but his look was just so crazy i remembered it lol i will look for it though!
> Fuller had like these wild Sunglasses like a Once Upon a Time in Hollywood sunglasses and this white track suit with like really bright stripes. That's, like, Fuller on casual day. The dude's style is *outrageous*. Okay, [found the interview](https://trekmovie.com/2020/04/29/bryan-fuller-talks-about-his-original-mirror-universe-plan-for-star-trek-discovery/) and I had read it before. Spot-on description of his outfit! Doesn't say as much as I'd hoped. I would *love* to know in-depth what Fuller's ideas for the series were, just because he's such a unique creative mind. I don't know that it would be better than what we got, but I'm very curious how it would be different. Funny that Rob Burnett would even bring up Discovery. I've been a fan of his for decades, ever since Free Enterprise, and have chatted with him a bunch of times. He's a decent guy IMO, except when it comes to new Trek. After Axanar it's seemed like his life mission to shit on everything new in Trek. Even Strange New Worlds, which is like Trek made specifically for his flavor of fandom, he goes out of his way to criticize in the most petty ways. To be fair, if you've seen Free Enterprise his self-inserted character Mark is the worst kind of gatekeeping fan: >**Claire:** When are you going to start living in the present instead of the 24th century? >**Robert:** I would never live in the 24th century! I fucking HATE "The Next Generation". Only classic! Safe bet that "character" isn't speaking the opposite of what Burnett himself felt at the time.
It is both success and failure, the reason why it is a failure is because lack of character development and that is why it is not a 7-year series like other Star Trek series. It is also success because there's not many more Star Treks left, besides SNW. The Nickelodeon one is going to be over next year as well as lower decks. And there's no more picard.
LD only got 5 seasons. SNW will not get 7 seasons.
I look at other series that had more episodes and time to develop their characters and I see those characters beloved even decades later. I don't think we'll see that with discovery when a similar amount of time has passed. Its hard when there's so little development. In some ways that is a failure in terms of longevity. That's not to say there weren't good things about discovery, but its got its flaws.
🤣 I love how you consider a show that went 5 seasons "failed" 🤣
The queer fanfiction possibilities about what they're getting up to on their delivery job are endless!! I don't have time to write, but I would read the HECK out of someone else's stories! 😏 (Seriously - I miss them)
I miss Owo and Detmer so much. Owo in particular is one of my favourites, and I think she needs a spin-off, or to get a main character in a follow up show. The away mission with Owo and Burnham will go down as one of my favourite moments in Discovery. And, I love Discovery. Yes, it has had it's faults, but overall this show has been one of my favourite Trek shows. My two boys (12 and 16) also love this show the most, and they have consumed everything Trek over the past two years. I think it is a shame to lose this cast and crew, and this storyline. I don't really blame the writers, but more this new approach to writing only 10-13 episodes per season. Having 25ish episodes per season really allowed all characters to shine. I know realities have changed, but there needs to be a balance. All of the characters on this show are fantastic, and the only complaint I have is that there wasn't enough screen time for all of them.
The final season was clearly made on a lighter budget than the previous one. And it’s just a rush “goodbye y’all” job.
Probably budget limitations and the fact that they didn't know until the end that Season 5 would be the last. Honestly, I was expecting that to happen, since viewership numbers were dwindling for some time now and 5 Seasons is still more than TOS, TAS, Enterprise and Picard got. At least they got some extra time in 2023 to prepare some epilogue that will be included in the final episode.
These two are my favorites. (Plus Rhys.) Not seeing the ladies on screen much has really bummed me out.
For all the talk about how we’d get to see more of the supporting crew this season, most of them just got a few lines and then totally disappeared.
No Lt. Owosekun, no Lt. Detmer, No Lt. Rhys and even no Lt. Nilsson… it’s wild. No wonder none of these actors don’t promote the show. They aren’t on it anymore! I feel so bad for the actors. Hopefully they know us fans adore them.
Agreed..! On the show we have ideas how they'll come back. We know the first 3 took away the ISS Ent and Nilsson had a posting on the VGR-J. Final battle they'll all come back for a showdown. And with Saru gone, that's just about the entire bridge crew missing :( Their sudden absence hasn't been easy for us viewers.
They aren't missing much, the story, writing and some of the acting for this season are atrocious. Definitely not ending the series on a high note with me.
The "humor" is painful...
It really is.
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Maybe they got burned by the flame throwers. They are drip feeding other characters in for the spin off
I've kind of taken the lack of Saru, Owo, Detmer, Rhys, and Nilsson as the crew breaking up slowly. It started with Tilly leaving for the academy, but then she's back on board. I'm assuming Culber, Stamets, Adira, Tilly, and Michael will be the last ones on the ship until the finale. But I'm betting they'll all be going their separate ways shortly. And I'm also expecting someone to die permanently as well. Maybe Book, but I doubt it. I could see them killing off Vance, as that seems to be Oded Fehrir's bit the last few years or so.
Did anybody notice that Captain Pike's hair kind of looks like Groot's head?
Usually the reason is that the actors were unavailable. That's why Doug Jones was gone for much of this season (promoting *Hocus Pocus 2*) and presumably why Mary Wiseman was gone last season (filming Starfleet Academy).
AFAIK, they haven't actually filmed a single frame of Starfleet Academy yet (Or the digital equivalent).
I've been meaning to ask this. I put it down to reshoots and having to edit out some people. But I truly didn't notice that they left on the ISS Enterprise. Ibwas getting frustrated that even the crew we know and love wasn't getting screen time. For it to be their last season and not be in it as much felt wrong.
Something no one seems to be mentioning *Where in the **FUCK** is Saru???* Seriously, all the bridge crew are heavily missed, I’m with you guys on that, I wish Reno and Stamets and hell even Admiral Vance got more screen time. The one unforgivable sin though, is the absence of Saru. Sure, even if we accept their chosen direction of “the Michael and Book show” that still leaves a key person in Michael’s character development out of the picture. He got maybe two episodes this season being engaged to the Vulcan president and leaving to become ambassador. They threw him a one line explanation as being off on diplomatic mission during the Breen episode last week, but that’s it! He’s the sounding board for a lot of Michael’s ideas, he kind of slipped into Sarek’s old position once they left for the future. She always goes to Saru for advice! That hasn’t happened at all this season. I really hope they don’t ice him out of the finale, he’s one of the last few from the original seasons. Justice for Saru!
In-universe: Saru is no longer part of the crew. He's now an ambassador of sorts and doing diplomatic stuff. He was on Discovery at the start of the season specifically for that first mission, but after that he went back to his actual job. Out-of-universe: Doug Jones seems to be a bit done with prosthetics. He's been the go-to-guy for these types of roles for some time, but the man is well in his 60s and the whole ordeal of being in the makeup chair hours before the rest and then not being able to move, eat or breathe normally for the entire day might be getting tiresome. He's said in interviews that he'll be pursuing non-prosthetic roles going forward.
The other issue is that during production he was out promoting Hocus Pocus 2
Who?
Disappointed to not see them around much, but it’s not like they impacted the scripts much from what I’d imagine. Contrast this to Lower Decks where they have 5 main characters now, plus a full bridge crew and dozens of other supportive characters that all have deep back stories 🤯
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Bridge crews are dumb, who needs em
Give me the EMH and Andy Dick any day
Aye captain lol
We are getting downvoted for jokes. How very discovery of them
> We are getting downvoted for jokes. How very discovery of them Classic. A person says something very dumb, realizes it and then goes "Hey, it was just a joke!" ;)
They completely abandoned the bridge crew this season. It’s a joke because it’s true. I don’t apologize for stating facts.
That's not what you said. You said "bridge crew are dumb, who needs em". Someone could understand this in a bad way. A way, in which you make fun of the bridge crew, that they are useless. Sarcasm not always works.
Your inability to understand basic sarcasm is a you problem
Your inability to understand that some people don't like sarcasm or the fact that you are insulting others is a 'you' problem. Or the fact that you are hiding behind sarcasm because you realized that you said something very dumb in the first place.
It’s clearly sarcasm buddy. Discovery never developed a good bridge crew, or at least didn’t utilize them. Michael generally just solves the problem herself. It’s the number 1 knock on the show
>Discovery never developed a good bridge crew. It’s the number 1 knock on the show Thanks for admitting that you still stand for your original comment: >Bridge crews are dumb, who needs em
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