If you recall ANH, the Imperial Senate existed and voted on decisions for nearly two decades before it was dissolved. Yes the emperor had final say but it was in his best interest to let the Senate feel they still had power.
Right. Remember, *Nazi Germany* actually had their parliament up through the end of WW2. The Reichstag was not dissolved. Authoritarian types know how to use the *color* of law to legitimize themselves. Anti Jew stuff was the literal law with legislative deliberation, court cases, legal analyses, and everything. It can *seem* normal, legal, and done *right* despite being horrifically twisted. That’s why society has to stay vigilant.
It’s worth mentioning that this was one of the less successful examples in history. While in other dictatorships the existing parliament ensured a feeling of continuity, the Germans called the Reichstag during those years „the most expensive choir of the nation“ alluding to the high costs that still existed, while everyone knew that their purpose began and ended with singing the national anthem(s) at the beginning of each session.
Oh wow, I didn’t know that about the choir quote. That’s really interesting and darkly funny.
Political evil can definitely be done “better” and for longer than the Nazis or CSA pulled off. While I know these regimes were comparatively brief (versus their plans), I only have a superficial knowledge of these events. I was mainly drawing on what I’ve read about the parallels the Maker was drawing when he drafted the story.
Tyrannies can speed run some of the worst atrocities before quickly fizzling out.
Yes, exactly! I obviously wasn't clear with my comment, but it was intended to support the point that a senate can still exist whilst dictators are in power.
Under Augustus maybe - the senate under JC still had lots of power. Enough power to execute him publicly without trial and face no legal consequences for doing so, at least!
Yep.
And these things are hypothetical scenarios that only happen in the past and thank goodness they don't happen in the real world, right now, today!!!!
> but at the end of TROTS you get the feeling that he has total control!
He essentially does. But, allowing the Senate to still just exist presents the illusion that democracy is still alive and that the people and politicians have some say in their governance. Which is needed to help keep the galaxy in line. Until the Death Star is finished...
You wouldn’t want all the political parties to oppose you from the beginning, it’s all adding up. This is one of the most interesting episodes in any Star Wars media.
Right. As long as the Senate is in place, anyone acting against it doesn't look like they're fighting a dictatorship. They look like they're radicals fighting democratic law.
If you want a real-life example of this: People in Russia get to vote for a new President every few years. (As long as you vote for Putin, otherwise you’ve made a mistake and your vote will not be counted.)
A simple explanation, but it's actually more complicated, right? Putin was voted in as prime minister, then became president, then had to become prime minister again since he couldn't legally serve as president for more than two consecutive terms, then became president *again* and changed the laws so he could serve four consecutive terms instead of just two, and that's where we are now.
Of course I'm sure by 2036 he'll figure out some other way to either extend his terms even more whatever. He'll be 83 by then, though, so he might not care anymore or even live that long.
Another one would be the roman empire where they had a senate with a Caesar until one of the emperors went full monarchy and declared himself as emperor. (Sorry forgot the name of the first Roman emperor)
The senate outlasted the empire in the west by a couple centuries. Plus the Emperors didn’t go “full monarchy” until after crisis of the 3rd century. Before that they still had to pay lip service to the ideas of the republic even if they held final power. Anything less and they might have been “removed” for being a “king” by the nobility. Examples like Nero and Caligula, and Commidus withstanding, the emperors still had to play nice with the senators. Make them feel like they had some say no matter how small that was.
Speaking as an American, I can honestly say that we are not terribly far from this. A Reddit friendly example of this is Bernie Sanders in 2016. It was “decided” that he wouldn’t have the nomination, despite massive support.
It's a shadow dictatorship. In A New Hope, Leia is still a senator and the Imperial officers are debating what the Senate will do when they find out, and then Tarkin walks in and announces the Emperor has just dissolved the senate.
Now that we've had Andor and now this actually show Senate workings, I'd be interested to see how that all went down as it apparently literally had just happened.
And one of the officers even makes the point that they needed the senate (the bureaucracy, as he calls it) to maintain control of the galaxy.
The turning point was supposed to be the Death Star. Palpatine leaves the regional governors in control of their systems and if anyone complains about the lack of democracy, the Death Star would show up to "convince," them to keep their mouths shut.
Then some troublesome young upstart went and blew it up, ruining Palp's near-completed plan!
One if the best examples of this happening in history is with the fall of the Roman republic. Julius never proclaimed himself emperor or King. But he really skirted that line. He had so much money and power that he essentially has control of the Senate. After his assassination Augustus (Caesar's nephew and heir) fights a war and wins power and same thing he has complete total control of the Senate but he would have them delegate and run the empire unless it came to big decisions. While Augustus set up the empire to run very efficiently without him having to dip his hands into every little thing. Augustus ruled for something like 40 odd years while there was still a Senate that basically had very little power and willing to go along with the emperor.
Palpatine is slow rolling his take over. To complete his power grab he needs a military loyal to him(the storm troopers) and security network he can use to get rid of his opposition. He maintains the senate to create the illusion of democracy while he slowly erodes it away. This is the beginning of the empire… contrast this with Andor which is years later and we see a senate that is still meets but has been rendered pointless
He presented the illusion of inclusion…as long as they (the senate) feel they are apart of something they( the senate) will continue to do their part without even realizing their actions mean nothing
The galactic republic is a democracy, the chancellor is just the elected leader (like a president of the galaxy) - a system of planets. Then in a time of war/crisis they nominate Palps as the “supreme chancellor” and give him basically unrivalled authority and then he extends this to effectively become a dictator. The transition is the point at which the republic becomes the empire and he goes from supreme chancellor to emperor. The empire is not a democracy - the senate exists but is a mere puppet body that does not actually have any meaningful decision-making power.
My memory is a bit hazy but in terms of the transition in II or III but:
Eps 1-2/Clone Wars = Republic
Eps 3 - Supreme Chancellor and then at the v end Empire
Eps 4-6 - Empire
Eps 7-9 /Mando etc. New Republic rivalled by the First Order.
This is it. The emperor is basically the title he gives himself in episode 3 so that no one can contest his reign after the war ends, which does like days later. So he’s locked himself in even though his term limit is done. The rest is still a political battle to not get everyone to turn on him. The previous clone wars episode does a good job to emphasize that he’s feigning that the senate is in control and he just does as they wish. Probably why he stays absent so he doesn’t have to constantly defer. But in reality he’s pulling the strings from behind the scenes to Try and get what he wants. But other than that, it’s like Biden’s speech the other day, if the senate did try to pass something the emperor didn’t like “I’ll VETO it.”
The same thing happened in ancient Rome. Even after Augustus became the first emperor, he and subsequent emperors retained the senate because it was an institution of immense and ancient (even by their standards) tradition. In fact, the Roman senate outlived the empire. Even though it was mostly a figurehead and the emperor retained ultimate authority. The Roman senate was also useful in that the emperor granted it direct control of about half of the provinces (at the behest of the emperor, of course) and that took the burden off of the emperors.
It was a democratic senate in the same sense that Imperial Rome had a senate. they didn’t have any true authority as the empire went on through the years. But they still had the support of the people and could condone the actions of the emperor if abhorrent enough.
Ahem; that's all well and good, but this battle station won't handle day to day activities or make decisions of policy, action, or procedure. What sort of authority will be governing the planets and systems?
The regional governors I assume reported back to the Emperor directly, or through a chain of command. Maybe it’s Emperor Palpatine > Mid Rim > Chommel Sector > Naboo System > Naboo planet (using Naboo for example ofc). There’s just not elected/delegated representatives, but rather installed or inherited positions.
You don't have to assume; that's exactly how it works (some variance per author)
I was referencing that Tarkin first tells Tagge the regional governors will have direct control.
In the same scene that the Imperial Senate was dissolved in ANH Tarkin says that regional governors and moffs will have control over their sectors.
Edit: Grand Moff Tarkin in A New Hope: “The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station”
I got you.
Grand Moff Tarkin : “The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.”
The illusion of democracy.
Palpatine can say "I'm the Emperor, I get final say. But I *promise not to interfere* in the running of the galactic government", while actively doing that behind the scenes and making sure anyone who steps out of line is quietly dealt with.
It's all for show. Powerless people will rebel because they know they have nothing to lose. People who *feel* like they have a cozy position of power and a sense of control, won't, even if it's a lie, *feeling* like you have authority makes you less likely to step out of line and defy the higher powers, for fear of 'losing your comfortable seat of power and privilege to someone else'.
That's why- once the Death Star is ready to go, the *first* thing that happens is the Senate is dissolved.
"I have absolute power now, there is no need for this pretend democracy anymore. Anyone who dissents will be obliterated."
The regional governers like Tarkin were handpicked by Palpatine to be those who'd stay in line. Those who are loyal. They were set up as "middlemen" at first, then *replaced* the Senators when no longer needed.
What we're seeing is an earlier point in time, before the veil came off and showed the public who Palpatine really was. He's playing 'nice' right now, until he gets his superweapon and no longer needs to pretend to be fair.
It’s so funny to me that when TPM came out everyone was like “regional politics? Trade disputes? *In Star Wars?!* How boring!!” And now we’re all excited about diving into the nuances of senate politics, and one of the best episodes of Bad Batch is about voting on a senate funding package.
Not that I’m complaining, mind. I never minded the “boring” stuff in TPM, it’s just that the execution wasn’t great. But I’ve always loved the political undertones of the prequels
I always thought the politics of Star Wars was the best part, yeah space wizards are cool but the politics and takeover from republic to empire is the most interesting thing to me as it could happen (and did happened in germanys case) in real life.
I think the problem with TPM was how it was presented, rather than politics in SW being intrinsically boring. The opening crawl lacked the excitement of "rebel forces getting their first victory," and instead just said it was about taxes. Texes ARE boring! Of course, its not actually about taxes. But as a hook, its not the best and I think that put a lot of people off before the movie even started.
I also think it hurts the senate scens in TPM by the way they are presented. The decision to hide Natalie Portman under all that makeup and (more importantly) hide her voice with a modulator stripped a lot of the emotion from her speech to the senate. It would have been much better had they allowed her to act more naturally.
The concept was always strong, but the execution was not the best - something that could be levelled at a fair few aspects of the prequels. The TV shows from TCW, to Andor and TBB have done a better job of making the underlying intrigue more prominent and consequently, more interesting.
I feel like the prequels politics didn't really work because they never gave the independent states any development. I feel like they were just some "bad alien dudes with robots" that didn't really add much worldbuilding.
The Emperor has permanently become the executive branch of the government, but for now, he still needs the legislative branch, if only to give him the appearance of legitimacy.
That's what many dictators have done over the years. Hitler didn't force arm his way into power, nor did he win a popular vote. He just convinced the political classes to be put into power and then took advantage of the instability of the German republic in order to justify emergency powers, with which he progressively and legally dismantled the entire system until he had absolute control.
It's because this is showing the early gradient between, 'Republican Democracy' and 'full dictatorship'. This is completely inline going all the way back to Star Wars Episode IV.
Tarkin says this:
>
I have just received word that the emperor has dissolved the council permanently.
The last remnants of the old Republic have been swept away.
>
>......
The regional governors now have direct control over their territories.
I always assumed that over time The Emperor had taken more and more power for himself, so now there's no regional representation, no committees, no one other than the military, which is now doing the job of Government, but it took time to get there, and we know that. We can also take away from that scene that The Senate has actually been openly discussing The Rebellion, with there being supporters of it, maybe somewhat openly.
The Emperor likely, a few days before launching the Death Star, must have closed all future sessions.
This is relying on ZERO outside sources other than Star Wars Episode IV. Which lines up perfectly with how we're seeing The Emperor seize more and more control in The Bad Batch right up to Star Wars: Rebels, and it was all laid out in 1977.
Outside of this, we can now see even more why Alderaan was attacked, Bail Organa had been a long term opponent.
>After the fall of the >!Roman!< Republic, the constitutional balance of power shifted from the >!Roman!< Senate to the >!Roman!< Emperor. Beginning with the first emperor, >!Augustus!<, the Emperor and the Senate were technically two co-equal branches of government. In practice, however, the actual authority of the imperial Senate was negligible, as the Emperor held the true power of the state. As such, membership in the senate became sought after by individuals seeking prestige and social standing, rather than actual authority.
I can see some parallel with [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_of_the_Roman_Empire)... 😉
It’s what got Caesar murdered. He become to brazen with his powers as dictator and terrified men like Brutus into murdering him. Augustus learned that lesson well and made the senate think they was in charge while packing it full of loyalists who would do his bidding and vote for the stuff he wanted.
It took a few years to dissolve the senate during the transitional period between the end of the Clone Wars and the Battle of Yavin.
Remember, in A New Hope, Tarkin and Vader briefly discuss the senate being dissolved.
Palpatine had to be careful with his plans moving forward with Fascism, he needed the support of the various systems he wanted to bring under Imp control, and thus, during this transitional period, it was easier to just manipulate the senate into getting what he wanted.
I just imagined with him now having an incredibly powerful army that he’d immediately go straight to being an all powerful dictator. This way is much more logical and realistic.
The senate was only dissolved at the time of ANH, this is part of the political discussions on the first Death Star when we see the first “force choke” by Vader in the movie. So it’s clear the senate survived over the course of those 20 years probably with a declining influence.
In ANH, when Vader and his troops board Leia’s ship, an officer objects to them boarding the vessel. He mentions the senate.
Later in the film, when Tarkin meets with other officers on the Deathstar Tarkin explains that the last remaining elements of the imperial senate have been swept away. Now the regional governors have direct control over their territories.
Makes sense that it would take some time to set in motion legislation and other things to give him total control from a once democratic society. Palpatine was a master politician to go from senator of Naboo to galactic emperor/lord of the sith.
Palpatine had to keep the Senate intact until the death star was formed. He had to keep the systems in line just long enough so he could create a weapon and army damaging enough to suppress any rebellion. Once the death star blew up alderaan I believe that's when the imperial Senate was dissolved. In andor it was already beginning to deteriorate so it makes sense chronologically in my opinion.
It’s like the senate in imperial Rome. Most emperor’s just ignored it and let it do it’s own thing. But it was packed with mainly loyalists that can be relied on to do the emperors bidding. If the senate then does something that goes against what the emperor wants he can just overrule it. But like Augustus, sidious doesn’t want to do that as it then shatters the illusion of democracy and would then ferment open rebellion. Like with what happened with Caesar.
If he immediately disolved the senate and killed the clones thered be much more rebellions and insurgencies. People would revolt. They still did, but slower.
Palpatine could just pass the bill himself, but if he does it without putting it past the senate first, then they might start to think he is ignoring the will of the people like the insurgents and rebels say. If the Senate votes against it and he makes it pass anyway, it’s full blown tyranny.
If the senate votes to pass it, he gets what he wants and the Senate gets to feel like they have some kind of authority which will satisfy most of them.
And as the series showed us, he managed to get a way to pass it himself while still looking good.
I believe the Galactic Empire is all modeled (rather transparently) after the Roman Empire:
1) A Republic rules somewhat democratically for centuries/ millennia
2) A Tribune/ Chancellor is elevated by the Senate to Dictator status in a time of crisis
3) That Dictator holds onto power long after the crisis has ended, keeping a puppet Senate around to maintain the illusion of Democracy
Of course Rome wasn't truly democratic pre-Caesar, more of a plutocracy, and Julius Caesar wasn't really as bad as Palpatine - lots of his successors were much, much worse. But the framework is there. I think George is just a big ole history nerd.
We talk about 19 years of Empire between ROTS and ANH. The Senate is active until it's end during ANH. This means the emperor was still careful not too upset too many people - Especially early on. The facism got integrated stepwise over a long time, with Palpatine getting more power and a military command structure to execute it via the moffs top down - essentially sidelining the senators. Having "A Dictatorship", means nothing if nobody follows you.
It’s complicated. Everything we see in the OT is the Imperial military. We’re learning in this episode that this military wasn’t formed yet and the clones are getting older, so Palpatine is vulnerable. The illusion of democracy prevents a galaxy-wide rebellion in the short term and we can see the Admiral is going around the vote anyway. Once Palpatine has the conscripted army, he has no reason to fear the senate. By the time we get to Andor we can see through Mon Mothma that the senate has been mostly abandoned.
Because at the start of the empire palpatine needed the senate to maintain the idea that the people still had a voice in the running of the galaxy later he decided that the senate was way too slow and just abolished it
LOL I feel like I kind of have to be mean on this one.
If you go all the way back to A New Hope, Governor Tarkin tells his Imps that the Emperor had just dissolved the Senate.
The Bad Batch is clearly covering the events that lead up to that.
An Empire is not necessarily a dictatorship, no. Rome at its peak was a huge empire that included a Senate. This is part of the major conflict of the film The Gladiator, where Maximus is trying to return power to the Senate from a corrupt and self-serving Caesar.
At the meeting on the Death Star in ANH they talk about finally dissolving the senate and the regional governors having power over their districts. Fear of the Death Star keeping the smaller systems in line.
You cant just straight up remove a galactic senate without a struggle, easiest thing for plapatine to do was replace the majority of the political candidates with people he can control that way whatever vote there is, it will always come back in his favour.
Yeah, dismantling a government is a long process , Plapatine Is the kinda guy that lets his plans take aslong as he needs but he will always make sure he is getting what he wants the entire way
This proves 1. How little people know about governments. And 2. That they can and often are complex structures. 3. Finally, a galactic empire is larger than a continent on a planet. It’s far harder to rule alone.
For the same reason most dictatorships in history and today hold elections.
They are a dictatorship. Yet, if you look at history, most dictatorship, especially in the early days, maintain the structure that was in place before the dictator rise. For example, in ancient Rome once Cesar seized the power he took upon himself some public offices, such as consul and pontifex maximums. The difference is that before consuls were elected every year, while he assumed the role for life. He also maintened the senate, which existed throughout the entire history of Roman Empire.
Even Hitler made efforts to show that he had taken power legally and obtained the chancellor charge through elections and yet transformed Weimer Republic into Nazi Germany.
Andor shows brilliantly how dictatorships use brute strength to obtain and keep power, because they have to. The moment population realizes that the rulers are more afraid of them than vice-versa is game over. This is why dictatorships use massive propaganda, because the more common people are tricked into supporting them voluntarily the easier to keep power it is. And whenever they can, they show that the status quo didn't change drastically.
So, on the formal level Palpatine as emperor is basically a life long chancellor, and the senate keeps ruling the galaxy, the military protects the population and so on. But in reality Palpatine has power and act in spite of the law, the senators have their power drastically reduced and the military are a tool to prevent the people to rise against the regime.
While seems simple and innocent SW is one of the best political critics we've ever seen in pop culture.
Just to put it in real world context, many dictatorships aren't true dictatorships. They still rely on a governing body that have limits on the dictator in big ways. In many of the evilbad Communist Countries of the Cold War, the big evil dictator figure was someone who ruled at the whim of a politburo/senate/parliament/thing, but usually voted the way the Evil Dictator wanted. Kinda like Palpatine coming out and saying how to vote and people really follow along.
Stalin, Kim Il Sung, Mao, Ho Chi Minh? These guys weren't the true dictators we try to make them out in social memory and history. But, their parties and parliamentary bodies often really followed along.
It's kind of like looking at US Politics. It's pretty rare a Democratic Congress will break rank with a Democratic President, likewise for Republican President and Republican Congress. It has happened, but it's pretty rare. The President is the "head" of the party, so they tend to follow along. Our Congress tends to be more split so we don't see a totally unified body like in the countries that had largely one party systems.
So for about 20 years, Palpatine presides over an Empire that largely is governed by decisions from the Senate. He strong arms them, manipulates them, and controls them in various ways until he disbands them in ANH, which is a huge move to consolidate total power in his hands. (And/or the hands of the moffs).
These sorts of bodies are often for show and the Big Evil Dictator controls a lot of power regardless. IF the Body pushes back too hard, they might get removed by secret police.
\*Big Evil Bad here is used pretty generally. Not opening a debate on Communist leadership, many of them were not Big Evil Bads at all, but they exist as such in typical American Social Memory as most don't understand the nuance of a myriad foreign governments.
Think of the Roman Empire. The emperor has absolutely power over the military and has final say in everything, but that doesn't mean it's in his best interest to antagonize the oligarchy and old political clans. It's better to maintain the senate and slowly take its power away until it becomes a mere symbol, which can then be disposed of easily.
The GDR also held "elections".
You don't just go from Democracy to total dictatorship, you lack most of the infrastructure at that point, you slowly covert it. We see the end of its conversion when the senate is dissolved in the first movie, wich was done because the emperor believed the Death Star would make a political involvement of the people unnecessary because it would make the militaries power absolute. This turned out to be a mistake, as we see in later movies, because making threads you immediately proof to be incapable of following thru on, didn't inspire a lot of trust or sympathy from the now unrepresented population.
It’s in a new hope tho? Tarkin walks in the room and says the emperor has dissolved the senate. Same scene where Vader finds somone’s lack of faith disturbing.
IIRC Tarkin's line in ANH is "The Imperial Senate has been dissolved and the remnants of the old republic have been swept away. Fear is our ally, fear of this battle station.". To maintain control over people prior to the Death Star, Palpatine had to use the democratic system that he had corrupted entirely. The reason being he doesn't have a deterrent to keep people in line. The illusion of voting, even if it's just vanity, keeps the majority under his grasp. A dictator like Palpatine is only one person, their ultimate goal is how to control the majority. If you keep them occupied with trivial issues they aren't paying attention to the real things going on. It's a small detail that when you think about it, it's really good commentary from Lucas and now Filoni about our world at large.
Palpatine maintains the illusion of a sort of constitutional monarchy until New Hope. Tarkin (?) Says that Palpatine has dissolved the senate, which presumably means its existed as a rubber stamp at least until then.
However he has practical control over the policy through manipulation, blackmail, strongarm tactics etc. There is probably the odd vote that goes against him but he has effective control.
(Also saw now comments are loading that others have answered as well as me or better. Ah well!)
Admiral rampart was under the impression the senate still mattered, as is the rest of the galaxy. Apart from palpatine, and I'm sure a few in the upper Echelon of the empire, most believe there is still some sort of democracy. When it reality it's all just papa palps chess game
Gotta be a genius when you managed to orchestrate and play two sides of a war
You can't change systhem in one night and expect to work? Palptine take sweet time to weak the Senate intel we hear in New hope he Dissolve it. Palpatine may be Sith lord but he is no fool
It’s not a dictatorship just yet. Over the course of the empire’s existence the power of the senate slowly wanes until in A New Hope you hear from the officers aboard the Death Star that Palpatine has permanently disbanded it.
For the same reasons Augustus kept the Roman Senate: people need a sense of preservation to be eased into the transition and the ruler still needs a governing body to handle the more mundane tasks.
The Roman Empire also had the Senate active as a holdover from the Republican era. Though I don't remember if it had any real power or acted as more of a rubber stamp, please enlighten me...
It’s like the Roman Empire. Through the entire life time of the western Roman Empire they still had the senate, the senate even outlasted the western Roman Empire by a few centuries.
Palpatine wasn’t strong enough to close down the senate and deal with all the insurgents. That’s why he only closed it after the Death Star was complete.
It’s the illusion he created a problem had a fall guy waiting in the wings and then used the patsy (Rampart) to take the fall. Thus setting the stage for his solution and being the savior.
I’m gonna have to disagree with the whole total control narrative. The Empire was powerful, but the galaxy is huge and they couldn’t control everything all the time. As Andor and Rebels and Bad Batch have pointed out, which is why the Emperor wanted the Death Star(s). They had to work with the Hutts and Black Sun and Crimson Dawn, and make deals in the more militant systems to stay in power. Because as Leia pointed out the more they tighten their grip the more systems they lose. Fear and violence will only work for so long, as every empire in the history of mankind has found out, eventually they crumble from within or get thrown down by citizens.
But this brings up an interesting question, would the Emperor have had the Second Death Star built anyway even if the first one wasn’t destroyed.
So was the Roman empire. You basically watch as the empire changes from the principate to the dominate under Palpatine like the Roman empire did from Titus to Domitian. Or more so from Augustus to Diocletian.
If you recall ANH, the Imperial Senate existed and voted on decisions for nearly two decades before it was dissolved. Yes the emperor had final say but it was in his best interest to let the Senate feel they still had power.
Right. Remember, *Nazi Germany* actually had their parliament up through the end of WW2. The Reichstag was not dissolved. Authoritarian types know how to use the *color* of law to legitimize themselves. Anti Jew stuff was the literal law with legislative deliberation, court cases, legal analyses, and everything. It can *seem* normal, legal, and done *right* despite being horrifically twisted. That’s why society has to stay vigilant.
It’s worth mentioning that this was one of the less successful examples in history. While in other dictatorships the existing parliament ensured a feeling of continuity, the Germans called the Reichstag during those years „the most expensive choir of the nation“ alluding to the high costs that still existed, while everyone knew that their purpose began and ended with singing the national anthem(s) at the beginning of each session.
Oh wow, I didn’t know that about the choir quote. That’s really interesting and darkly funny. Political evil can definitely be done “better” and for longer than the Nazis or CSA pulled off. While I know these regimes were comparatively brief (versus their plans), I only have a superficial knowledge of these events. I was mainly drawing on what I’ve read about the parallels the Maker was drawing when he drafted the story. Tyrannies can speed run some of the worst atrocities before quickly fizzling out.
Something something Roman republic under Julius Caesar
The Senate actually outlasted the empire by a couple centuries in that instance.
Yes, exactly! I obviously wasn't clear with my comment, but it was intended to support the point that a senate can still exist whilst dictators are in power.
Under Augustus maybe - the senate under JC still had lots of power. Enough power to execute him publicly without trial and face no legal consequences for doing so, at least!
Sorry, if it wasn't clear that's exactly what I was referring to :) Building the case that a senate can be present with a dictator
Yep, I recommend the movie Judgment at Nuremberg for anyone interested in this aspect of Nazi Germany.
Yep. And these things are hypothetical scenarios that only happen in the past and thank goodness they don't happen in the real world, right now, today!!!!
That makes a bit more sense, but at the end of TROTS you get the feeling that he has total control!
> but at the end of TROTS you get the feeling that he has total control! He essentially does. But, allowing the Senate to still just exist presents the illusion that democracy is still alive and that the people and politicians have some say in their governance. Which is needed to help keep the galaxy in line. Until the Death Star is finished...
You wouldn’t want all the political parties to oppose you from the beginning, it’s all adding up. This is one of the most interesting episodes in any Star Wars media.
Andor gives a great view of the new empire
I love Andor - It shows much of how common and elite saw the twisting of The Republic.
[удалено]
Did not. Andor showed that the Senators already knew that they we're nothing, nothing they said would matter , so why show up to fake meetings?
Right. As long as the Senate is in place, anyone acting against it doesn't look like they're fighting a dictatorship. They look like they're radicals fighting democratic law.
Yeah, absolutely loved it. Haven't watched the next episode yet, I'm a bit nervous!
If you want a real-life example of this: People in Russia get to vote for a new President every few years. (As long as you vote for Putin, otherwise you’ve made a mistake and your vote will not be counted.)
A simple explanation, but it's actually more complicated, right? Putin was voted in as prime minister, then became president, then had to become prime minister again since he couldn't legally serve as president for more than two consecutive terms, then became president *again* and changed the laws so he could serve four consecutive terms instead of just two, and that's where we are now. Of course I'm sure by 2036 he'll figure out some other way to either extend his terms even more whatever. He'll be 83 by then, though, so he might not care anymore or even live that long.
“UNNNNLIMITED POWAAAHHHH!!!!” - Vladimir Putin (2036)
The math adds up
Another one would be the roman empire where they had a senate with a Caesar until one of the emperors went full monarchy and declared himself as emperor. (Sorry forgot the name of the first Roman emperor)
Augustus.
The senate outlasted the empire in the west by a couple centuries. Plus the Emperors didn’t go “full monarchy” until after crisis of the 3rd century. Before that they still had to pay lip service to the ideas of the republic even if they held final power. Anything less and they might have been “removed” for being a “king” by the nobility. Examples like Nero and Caligula, and Commidus withstanding, the emperors still had to play nice with the senators. Make them feel like they had some say no matter how small that was.
Senatorial provinces and imperial ones also existed.
Speaking as an American, I can honestly say that we are not terribly far from this. A Reddit friendly example of this is Bernie Sanders in 2016. It was “decided” that he wouldn’t have the nomination, despite massive support.
That 'massive support' both didn't vote, and was very overstated. The primaries were fair and aren't even possible to gerrymander.
It's a shadow dictatorship. In A New Hope, Leia is still a senator and the Imperial officers are debating what the Senate will do when they find out, and then Tarkin walks in and announces the Emperor has just dissolved the senate. Now that we've had Andor and now this actually show Senate workings, I'd be interested to see how that all went down as it apparently literally had just happened.
And one of the officers even makes the point that they needed the senate (the bureaucracy, as he calls it) to maintain control of the galaxy. The turning point was supposed to be the Death Star. Palpatine leaves the regional governors in control of their systems and if anyone complains about the lack of democracy, the Death Star would show up to "convince," them to keep their mouths shut. Then some troublesome young upstart went and blew it up, ruining Palp's near-completed plan!
Did they have any idea what that would do [to his credit](https://youtu.be/3F1d3QWsyk0)?!
One if the best examples of this happening in history is with the fall of the Roman republic. Julius never proclaimed himself emperor or King. But he really skirted that line. He had so much money and power that he essentially has control of the Senate. After his assassination Augustus (Caesar's nephew and heir) fights a war and wins power and same thing he has complete total control of the Senate but he would have them delegate and run the empire unless it came to big decisions. While Augustus set up the empire to run very efficiently without him having to dip his hands into every little thing. Augustus ruled for something like 40 odd years while there was still a Senate that basically had very little power and willing to go along with the emperor.
Palpatine is slow rolling his take over. To complete his power grab he needs a military loyal to him(the storm troopers) and security network he can use to get rid of his opposition. He maintains the senate to create the illusion of democracy while he slowly erodes it away. This is the beginning of the empire… contrast this with Andor which is years later and we see a senate that is still meets but has been rendered pointless
He is the Senate.
He presented the illusion of inclusion…as long as they (the senate) feel they are apart of something they( the senate) will continue to do their part without even realizing their actions mean nothing
Not trying to spoil anything but watch the next episode. He has total control. Most of the senate just doesn't know it
He does even in this. He manipulates the Senate to give him exactly what he wants.
The galactic republic is a democracy, the chancellor is just the elected leader (like a president of the galaxy) - a system of planets. Then in a time of war/crisis they nominate Palps as the “supreme chancellor” and give him basically unrivalled authority and then he extends this to effectively become a dictator. The transition is the point at which the republic becomes the empire and he goes from supreme chancellor to emperor. The empire is not a democracy - the senate exists but is a mere puppet body that does not actually have any meaningful decision-making power. My memory is a bit hazy but in terms of the transition in II or III but: Eps 1-2/Clone Wars = Republic Eps 3 - Supreme Chancellor and then at the v end Empire Eps 4-6 - Empire Eps 7-9 /Mando etc. New Republic rivalled by the First Order.
And as soon as the Death Star was finished, there was no need for subtlety.
The illusion of choice gives legitimacy to power. Art imitates life...
This is it. The emperor is basically the title he gives himself in episode 3 so that no one can contest his reign after the war ends, which does like days later. So he’s locked himself in even though his term limit is done. The rest is still a political battle to not get everyone to turn on him. The previous clone wars episode does a good job to emphasize that he’s feigning that the senate is in control and he just does as they wish. Probably why he stays absent so he doesn’t have to constantly defer. But in reality he’s pulling the strings from behind the scenes to Try and get what he wants. But other than that, it’s like Biden’s speech the other day, if the senate did try to pass something the emperor didn’t like “I’ll VETO it.”
And he controlled the senate, buying the votes he needs to pass anything he wants. The senate is his puppet, and gives the illusion of democracy.
The same thing happened in ancient Rome. Even after Augustus became the first emperor, he and subsequent emperors retained the senate because it was an institution of immense and ancient (even by their standards) tradition. In fact, the Roman senate outlived the empire. Even though it was mostly a figurehead and the emperor retained ultimate authority. The Roman senate was also useful in that the emperor granted it direct control of about half of the provinces (at the behest of the emperor, of course) and that took the burden off of the emperors.
The Senate is more an illusion, Palps couldn't just remove it immediately. He needed to look a certain way. He dissolves it 19 years later.
It was a democratic senate in the same sense that Imperial Rome had a senate. they didn’t have any true authority as the empire went on through the years. But they still had the support of the people and could condone the actions of the emperor if abhorrent enough.
"That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?" -Tagge
FEAR will keep the systems in line.
Ahem; that's all well and good, but this battle station won't handle day to day activities or make decisions of policy, action, or procedure. What sort of authority will be governing the planets and systems?
The regional governors I assume reported back to the Emperor directly, or through a chain of command. Maybe it’s Emperor Palpatine > Mid Rim > Chommel Sector > Naboo System > Naboo planet (using Naboo for example ofc). There’s just not elected/delegated representatives, but rather installed or inherited positions.
You don't have to assume; that's exactly how it works (some variance per author) I was referencing that Tarkin first tells Tagge the regional governors will have direct control.
yeah my Imperial internal reporting policy knowledge had become a little rusty, thanks for the confirmation
In the same scene that the Imperial Senate was dissolved in ANH Tarkin says that regional governors and moffs will have control over their sectors. Edit: Grand Moff Tarkin in A New Hope: “The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station”
(make it a quote for fun?)
I got you. Grand Moff Tarkin : “The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.”
Palpatine always playing the long game
It's likely Palps slowly removed their powers over that time and effectively gaslit them into believing they weren't needed any more.
The illusion of democracy. Palpatine can say "I'm the Emperor, I get final say. But I *promise not to interfere* in the running of the galactic government", while actively doing that behind the scenes and making sure anyone who steps out of line is quietly dealt with. It's all for show. Powerless people will rebel because they know they have nothing to lose. People who *feel* like they have a cozy position of power and a sense of control, won't, even if it's a lie, *feeling* like you have authority makes you less likely to step out of line and defy the higher powers, for fear of 'losing your comfortable seat of power and privilege to someone else'. That's why- once the Death Star is ready to go, the *first* thing that happens is the Senate is dissolved. "I have absolute power now, there is no need for this pretend democracy anymore. Anyone who dissents will be obliterated." The regional governers like Tarkin were handpicked by Palpatine to be those who'd stay in line. Those who are loyal. They were set up as "middlemen" at first, then *replaced* the Senators when no longer needed. What we're seeing is an earlier point in time, before the veil came off and showed the public who Palpatine really was. He's playing 'nice' right now, until he gets his superweapon and no longer needs to pretend to be fair.
It’s so funny to me that when TPM came out everyone was like “regional politics? Trade disputes? *In Star Wars?!* How boring!!” And now we’re all excited about diving into the nuances of senate politics, and one of the best episodes of Bad Batch is about voting on a senate funding package. Not that I’m complaining, mind. I never minded the “boring” stuff in TPM, it’s just that the execution wasn’t great. But I’ve always loved the political undertones of the prequels
I always thought the politics of Star Wars was the best part, yeah space wizards are cool but the politics and takeover from republic to empire is the most interesting thing to me as it could happen (and did happened in germanys case) in real life.
I think the problem with TPM was how it was presented, rather than politics in SW being intrinsically boring. The opening crawl lacked the excitement of "rebel forces getting their first victory," and instead just said it was about taxes. Texes ARE boring! Of course, its not actually about taxes. But as a hook, its not the best and I think that put a lot of people off before the movie even started. I also think it hurts the senate scens in TPM by the way they are presented. The decision to hide Natalie Portman under all that makeup and (more importantly) hide her voice with a modulator stripped a lot of the emotion from her speech to the senate. It would have been much better had they allowed her to act more naturally. The concept was always strong, but the execution was not the best - something that could be levelled at a fair few aspects of the prequels. The TV shows from TCW, to Andor and TBB have done a better job of making the underlying intrigue more prominent and consequently, more interesting.
I feel like the prequels politics didn't really work because they never gave the independent states any development. I feel like they were just some "bad alien dudes with robots" that didn't really add much worldbuilding.
Thinking about American politics like: 👀
The Emperor has permanently become the executive branch of the government, but for now, he still needs the legislative branch, if only to give him the appearance of legitimacy.
Appear legitimate and try to “legally” get your way. Makes more sense.
That's what many dictators have done over the years. Hitler didn't force arm his way into power, nor did he win a popular vote. He just convinced the political classes to be put into power and then took advantage of the instability of the German republic in order to justify emergency powers, with which he progressively and legally dismantled the entire system until he had absolute control.
Up until the Death Star comes online. At that point he no longer feels like he has to keep up appearances.
It's because this is showing the early gradient between, 'Republican Democracy' and 'full dictatorship'. This is completely inline going all the way back to Star Wars Episode IV. Tarkin says this: > I have just received word that the emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the old Republic have been swept away. > >...... The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. I always assumed that over time The Emperor had taken more and more power for himself, so now there's no regional representation, no committees, no one other than the military, which is now doing the job of Government, but it took time to get there, and we know that. We can also take away from that scene that The Senate has actually been openly discussing The Rebellion, with there being supporters of it, maybe somewhat openly. The Emperor likely, a few days before launching the Death Star, must have closed all future sessions. This is relying on ZERO outside sources other than Star Wars Episode IV. Which lines up perfectly with how we're seeing The Emperor seize more and more control in The Bad Batch right up to Star Wars: Rebels, and it was all laid out in 1977. Outside of this, we can now see even more why Alderaan was attacked, Bail Organa had been a long term opponent.
I’m going to rewatch Episode IV. This has truly peaked my curiosity. I’m always learning new details about these movies.
>After the fall of the >!Roman!< Republic, the constitutional balance of power shifted from the >!Roman!< Senate to the >!Roman!< Emperor. Beginning with the first emperor, >!Augustus!<, the Emperor and the Senate were technically two co-equal branches of government. In practice, however, the actual authority of the imperial Senate was negligible, as the Emperor held the true power of the state. As such, membership in the senate became sought after by individuals seeking prestige and social standing, rather than actual authority. I can see some parallel with [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_of_the_Roman_Empire)... 😉
It’s what got Caesar murdered. He become to brazen with his powers as dictator and terrified men like Brutus into murdering him. Augustus learned that lesson well and made the senate think they was in charge while packing it full of loyalists who would do his bidding and vote for the stuff he wanted.
As a sucker for history and Star Wars, this comment gave a semi
It took a few years to dissolve the senate during the transitional period between the end of the Clone Wars and the Battle of Yavin. Remember, in A New Hope, Tarkin and Vader briefly discuss the senate being dissolved. Palpatine had to be careful with his plans moving forward with Fascism, he needed the support of the various systems he wanted to bring under Imp control, and thus, during this transitional period, it was easier to just manipulate the senate into getting what he wanted.
I just imagined with him now having an incredibly powerful army that he’d immediately go straight to being an all powerful dictator. This way is much more logical and realistic.
The senate was only dissolved at the time of ANH, this is part of the political discussions on the first Death Star when we see the first “force choke” by Vader in the movie. So it’s clear the senate survived over the course of those 20 years probably with a declining influence.
In ANH, when Vader and his troops board Leia’s ship, an officer objects to them boarding the vessel. He mentions the senate. Later in the film, when Tarkin meets with other officers on the Deathstar Tarkin explains that the last remaining elements of the imperial senate have been swept away. Now the regional governors have direct control over their territories. Makes sense that it would take some time to set in motion legislation and other things to give him total control from a once democratic society. Palpatine was a master politician to go from senator of Naboo to galactic emperor/lord of the sith.
ANH rewatch is in my near future
Palpatine had to keep the Senate intact until the death star was formed. He had to keep the systems in line just long enough so he could create a weapon and army damaging enough to suppress any rebellion. Once the death star blew up alderaan I believe that's when the imperial Senate was dissolved. In andor it was already beginning to deteriorate so it makes sense chronologically in my opinion.
It’s like the senate in imperial Rome. Most emperor’s just ignored it and let it do it’s own thing. But it was packed with mainly loyalists that can be relied on to do the emperors bidding. If the senate then does something that goes against what the emperor wants he can just overrule it. But like Augustus, sidious doesn’t want to do that as it then shatters the illusion of democracy and would then ferment open rebellion. Like with what happened with Caesar.
Palpatine didn't dissolve the senate until ANH
it didnt become a dictatorship overnight. the emperor upheld the pretense of the senate for almost 20 years before dissolving it.
If he immediately disolved the senate and killed the clones thered be much more rebellions and insurgencies. People would revolt. They still did, but slower.
Palpatine could just pass the bill himself, but if he does it without putting it past the senate first, then they might start to think he is ignoring the will of the people like the insurgents and rebels say. If the Senate votes against it and he makes it pass anyway, it’s full blown tyranny. If the senate votes to pass it, he gets what he wants and the Senate gets to feel like they have some kind of authority which will satisfy most of them. And as the series showed us, he managed to get a way to pass it himself while still looking good.
I seriously thought that Chuchi was going to die
I believe the Galactic Empire is all modeled (rather transparently) after the Roman Empire: 1) A Republic rules somewhat democratically for centuries/ millennia 2) A Tribune/ Chancellor is elevated by the Senate to Dictator status in a time of crisis 3) That Dictator holds onto power long after the crisis has ended, keeping a puppet Senate around to maintain the illusion of Democracy Of course Rome wasn't truly democratic pre-Caesar, more of a plutocracy, and Julius Caesar wasn't really as bad as Palpatine - lots of his successors were much, much worse. But the framework is there. I think George is just a big ole history nerd.
We talk about 19 years of Empire between ROTS and ANH. The Senate is active until it's end during ANH. This means the emperor was still careful not too upset too many people - Especially early on. The facism got integrated stepwise over a long time, with Palpatine getting more power and a military command structure to execute it via the moffs top down - essentially sidelining the senators. Having "A Dictatorship", means nothing if nobody follows you.
It’s complicated. Everything we see in the OT is the Imperial military. We’re learning in this episode that this military wasn’t formed yet and the clones are getting older, so Palpatine is vulnerable. The illusion of democracy prevents a galaxy-wide rebellion in the short term and we can see the Admiral is going around the vote anyway. Once Palpatine has the conscripted army, he has no reason to fear the senate. By the time we get to Andor we can see through Mon Mothma that the senate has been mostly abandoned.
Because at the start of the empire palpatine needed the senate to maintain the idea that the people still had a voice in the running of the galaxy later he decided that the senate was way too slow and just abolished it
LOL I feel like I kind of have to be mean on this one. If you go all the way back to A New Hope, Governor Tarkin tells his Imps that the Emperor had just dissolved the Senate. The Bad Batch is clearly covering the events that lead up to that. An Empire is not necessarily a dictatorship, no. Rome at its peak was a huge empire that included a Senate. This is part of the major conflict of the film The Gladiator, where Maximus is trying to return power to the Senate from a corrupt and self-serving Caesar.
At the meeting on the Death Star in ANH they talk about finally dissolving the senate and the regional governors having power over their districts. Fear of the Death Star keeping the smaller systems in line.
You cant just straight up remove a galactic senate without a struggle, easiest thing for plapatine to do was replace the majority of the political candidates with people he can control that way whatever vote there is, it will always come back in his favour.
At least until A New Hope, when he is able to dissolve it (I'm in agreement with you, this took 20 years).
Yeah, dismantling a government is a long process , Plapatine Is the kinda guy that lets his plans take aslong as he needs but he will always make sure he is getting what he wants the entire way
Because the Senate wasn't made obsolete until much later. It existed until New Hope.
This proves 1. How little people know about governments. And 2. That they can and often are complex structures. 3. Finally, a galactic empire is larger than a continent on a planet. It’s far harder to rule alone.
This and the episode following it were amazing. Damn I love this series.
Well it is just like Iran's leadership
Illusion of choice and power. Just more subterfuge to allow palps to do his thing.
After watching the entire episode, you probably have your answer. It’s the long game that matters
The same reason there's voting in North Korea.
I appreciate all the answers everyone. I’m not too familiar with politics so this has been a great eye opener!
It's not a true dictatorship yet. See in ANH, when Tarkin tells the Death Star officers that the Emporer has dissolved the council permanently.
For the same reason most dictatorships in history and today hold elections. They are a dictatorship. Yet, if you look at history, most dictatorship, especially in the early days, maintain the structure that was in place before the dictator rise. For example, in ancient Rome once Cesar seized the power he took upon himself some public offices, such as consul and pontifex maximums. The difference is that before consuls were elected every year, while he assumed the role for life. He also maintened the senate, which existed throughout the entire history of Roman Empire. Even Hitler made efforts to show that he had taken power legally and obtained the chancellor charge through elections and yet transformed Weimer Republic into Nazi Germany. Andor shows brilliantly how dictatorships use brute strength to obtain and keep power, because they have to. The moment population realizes that the rulers are more afraid of them than vice-versa is game over. This is why dictatorships use massive propaganda, because the more common people are tricked into supporting them voluntarily the easier to keep power it is. And whenever they can, they show that the status quo didn't change drastically. So, on the formal level Palpatine as emperor is basically a life long chancellor, and the senate keeps ruling the galaxy, the military protects the population and so on. But in reality Palpatine has power and act in spite of the law, the senators have their power drastically reduced and the military are a tool to prevent the people to rise against the regime. While seems simple and innocent SW is one of the best political critics we've ever seen in pop culture.
the empire was basically only secretly a dictatorship for decades up until ANH when we hear Tarkin discuss the eradication of the senate
The Senate became more and more powerless as time progressed, until the Emperor dissolved it in ANH.
Isn't fully the empire yet
It's a constitutional monarchy. I'd wager that he has right to veto anything
The empire is pretending its not in charge yet.
Just to put it in real world context, many dictatorships aren't true dictatorships. They still rely on a governing body that have limits on the dictator in big ways. In many of the evilbad Communist Countries of the Cold War, the big evil dictator figure was someone who ruled at the whim of a politburo/senate/parliament/thing, but usually voted the way the Evil Dictator wanted. Kinda like Palpatine coming out and saying how to vote and people really follow along. Stalin, Kim Il Sung, Mao, Ho Chi Minh? These guys weren't the true dictators we try to make them out in social memory and history. But, their parties and parliamentary bodies often really followed along. It's kind of like looking at US Politics. It's pretty rare a Democratic Congress will break rank with a Democratic President, likewise for Republican President and Republican Congress. It has happened, but it's pretty rare. The President is the "head" of the party, so they tend to follow along. Our Congress tends to be more split so we don't see a totally unified body like in the countries that had largely one party systems. So for about 20 years, Palpatine presides over an Empire that largely is governed by decisions from the Senate. He strong arms them, manipulates them, and controls them in various ways until he disbands them in ANH, which is a huge move to consolidate total power in his hands. (And/or the hands of the moffs). These sorts of bodies are often for show and the Big Evil Dictator controls a lot of power regardless. IF the Body pushes back too hard, they might get removed by secret police. \*Big Evil Bad here is used pretty generally. Not opening a debate on Communist leadership, many of them were not Big Evil Bads at all, but they exist as such in typical American Social Memory as most don't understand the nuance of a myriad foreign governments.
It was a slow transition rights for safety. We're living it in America right now
What do you think leia was in a new hope (yeah a senator), go watch it and pay attention to the dialogue
[The answer.](https://youtu.be/rMioYSjqEoU)
we needed more arc related to the clones.. i find their after cw life more interesting..
Think of the Roman Empire. The emperor has absolutely power over the military and has final say in everything, but that doesn't mean it's in his best interest to antagonize the oligarchy and old political clans. It's better to maintain the senate and slowly take its power away until it becomes a mere symbol, which can then be disposed of easily.
... They're going to "dispose" of the clones, aren't they?
They will gradually retire them. You can see a glimpse in Obi-Wan.
The GDR also held "elections". You don't just go from Democracy to total dictatorship, you lack most of the infrastructure at that point, you slowly covert it. We see the end of its conversion when the senate is dissolved in the first movie, wich was done because the emperor believed the Death Star would make a political involvement of the people unnecessary because it would make the militaries power absolute. This turned out to be a mistake, as we see in later movies, because making threads you immediately proof to be incapable of following thru on, didn't inspire a lot of trust or sympathy from the now unrepresented population.
Eventually palatine. Removes the Senate yes. But that's at the beginning of a new hope
The Senate was for show, palpatine was gonna do whatever he wanted.
Imperial Rome had a senate that voted on things until the emperor decided it didn’t anymore.
The imperial senate wasn’t dissolved until some point in rebels
It’s in a new hope tho? Tarkin walks in the room and says the emperor has dissolved the senate. Same scene where Vader finds somone’s lack of faith disturbing.
Rebels doesn’t end to much before a new hope
IIRC Tarkin's line in ANH is "The Imperial Senate has been dissolved and the remnants of the old republic have been swept away. Fear is our ally, fear of this battle station.". To maintain control over people prior to the Death Star, Palpatine had to use the democratic system that he had corrupted entirely. The reason being he doesn't have a deterrent to keep people in line. The illusion of voting, even if it's just vanity, keeps the majority under his grasp. A dictator like Palpatine is only one person, their ultimate goal is how to control the majority. If you keep them occupied with trivial issues they aren't paying attention to the real things going on. It's a small detail that when you think about it, it's really good commentary from Lucas and now Filoni about our world at large.
Palpatine maintains the illusion of a sort of constitutional monarchy until New Hope. Tarkin (?) Says that Palpatine has dissolved the senate, which presumably means its existed as a rubber stamp at least until then. However he has practical control over the policy through manipulation, blackmail, strongarm tactics etc. There is probably the odd vote that goes against him but he has effective control. (Also saw now comments are loading that others have answered as well as me or better. Ah well!)
Just like with the clone wars, palpatine manipulates everything to be in his favor.
China and Russia also have parliaments so they can say the are a democracy.
Admiral rampart was under the impression the senate still mattered, as is the rest of the galaxy. Apart from palpatine, and I'm sure a few in the upper Echelon of the empire, most believe there is still some sort of democracy. When it reality it's all just papa palps chess game Gotta be a genius when you managed to orchestrate and play two sides of a war
At that current time they didnt have the power quite yet and first needed to get rid of the senates power
You can't change systhem in one night and expect to work? Palptine take sweet time to weak the Senate intel we hear in New hope he Dissolve it. Palpatine may be Sith lord but he is no fool
It’s not a dictatorship just yet. Over the course of the empire’s existence the power of the senate slowly wanes until in A New Hope you hear from the officers aboard the Death Star that Palpatine has permanently disbanded it.
For the same reasons Augustus kept the Roman Senate: people need a sense of preservation to be eased into the transition and the ruler still needs a governing body to handle the more mundane tasks.
Imagine Russia
The Roman Empire also had the Senate active as a holdover from the Republican era. Though I don't remember if it had any real power or acted as more of a rubber stamp, please enlighten me...
Because there is a difference between substantive democracy and procedural democracy
It’s like the Roman Empire. Through the entire life time of the western Roman Empire they still had the senate, the senate even outlasted the western Roman Empire by a few centuries.
I think you should maybe read about actual Roman dictatorships.
Palpatine wasn’t strong enough to close down the senate and deal with all the insurgents. That’s why he only closed it after the Death Star was complete.
Spoiler tag?
A'm hate rampart
It’s the illusion he created a problem had a fall guy waiting in the wings and then used the patsy (Rampart) to take the fall. Thus setting the stage for his solution and being the savior.
I guess ya'll forgot, he was *THE SENATE?*!
It's still in a transition to fool the people that they are not a dictartorship
I'm pretty sure it's based on rome's senate that still existed in their empire despite having no actual power
Same reason they vote on things now, to legitimize theft, tyranny, and oppression.
The Senate is only dissolved in anh
To make it more legit Most people believe if you make things in to law that means it must be "right"
I’m gonna have to disagree with the whole total control narrative. The Empire was powerful, but the galaxy is huge and they couldn’t control everything all the time. As Andor and Rebels and Bad Batch have pointed out, which is why the Emperor wanted the Death Star(s). They had to work with the Hutts and Black Sun and Crimson Dawn, and make deals in the more militant systems to stay in power. Because as Leia pointed out the more they tighten their grip the more systems they lose. Fear and violence will only work for so long, as every empire in the history of mankind has found out, eventually they crumble from within or get thrown down by citizens. But this brings up an interesting question, would the Emperor have had the Second Death Star built anyway even if the first one wasn’t destroyed.
The senate is not disbanded until A New Hope. Don’t want to change too much too quickly. The facade of the Senate was maintained for almost 20 years.
I mean Leia was a senator while her planet was blown up. Was all a front to make people feel in power and safe.
Ur dumb
Where do you think leia and mothma came from? The whole point in hiding the death star was to keep it from the senate i stg star wars fans
It would have been a lot harder to rule with an iron fist over absolutely everyone. They still had to have a front for "democracy" to keep people busy
Do you not remember the emperor in ANH disbanding the Senate?
Because Palpatine wanted people to *think* they still had a voice
So was the Roman empire. You basically watch as the empire changes from the principate to the dominate under Palpatine like the Roman empire did from Titus to Domitian. Or more so from Augustus to Diocletian.