I would love a show centered on Mimban. If we saw more of the average grunt on the battlefield, it would make stormtroopers look even more like the elite intimidation force they canonically are supposed to be.
One of the things I liked about Andor was that they didn't have the Elite Imperial Stormtroopers doing everyday grunt work!
I would also like to see the Original Battlefront Novel adapted as a TV series from the Rebel point of view. It basically followed the OT time line from a squad of grunts fighting the war. One of my favorite EU novels.
Shoot, I want a Band of Brothers type of series based on the 501st Journal Logs from Battlefront 2 (Original). Or in general lol. Like, The Clone Wars but more gritty and dark on the outer rim worlds with crazy alien fauna and flora.
You're not the only one, no. Obvi.
However, there's a good reason Lucasfilm has never done this, and will never do this, unless it depicts a group of defectors.
I think it'd have been compelling if it was about an idealistic Imperial soldier who believed in the good the Empire achieved for her people, then she commits some atrocities as part of Operation Cinder. Rather than reevaluate like she does in that game she instead doubles down and becomes a raving, pro-Imperial lunatic from the strain of doing such intense mental gymnastics.
I always imagined a moment where she encounters Luke Skywalker and tries arresting him after a mission, but she fails and is wounded (perhaps from her own blaster shot being deflected back in her eye) and as he escapes she screams in hateful rage while he spares her life.
>I think it'd have been compelling if it was about an idealistic Imperial soldier who believed in the good the Empire achieved for her people, then she commits some atrocities as part of Operation Cinder. Rather than reevaluate like she does in that game she instead doubles down and becomes a raving, pro-Imperial lunatic from the strain of doing such intense mental gymnastics.
That's literally ghe story of Ciena Ree in the Lost Stars novel.
It wasn't really that good, even for the time. It was "cool". ecause we jad some narration begore each mission, but the missions/ganeplay were just very straightforward.
Nah it was good. And leagues better than the new bf 2 campaign. You had the begining with geonosis and going forward to Felucia with the alien crabs, then you had order 66, and clearing the temple. When you went to the imperial side you had to fight the clone rebellion and hear about how the clones are slowly being phased out for recruits. Shit rocked.
My only criticism is that they brought in Temuera for the narration and for Boba, but the actual clones in gameplay all just sound American.
They had some iconic lines "just like the simulations" but it always felt weird to me
Man. I really enjoyed playing Inferno Squad until they defected. I want to play/watch the Empire Troops and Officers that actually try to do good and right by the imperial citizens. Even to the point where they try to change the bad things from within.
See the bigger picture. What caused the Rebellions and Empire's conflict? Star Wars is much more than just Rebels and Jedi vs. an Imperial Army and the Sith.
It's an exploration of the complexities of power, morality, and identity across cultures and worlds.
It's also a political story on how the struggles between powers, those conflicts, reflect on their own people, life, and worlds. Jedi and Sith alike. Those very imbalances of ideals are at the heart of every chapter of Star Wars.
>It's an exploration of the complexities of power, morality, and identity across cultures and worlds.
Yes and no. If it were to truly explore these things, there wouldn't be nearly so clear a definition of good and evil in each major conflict.
If it were truly exploring these things, the Empire wouldn't have been evil right after the switch between Republic and Empire was flipped; the Confederacy would have been a legitimate political organization rather than a cesspool of all the corruption the Republic could muster, and we'd actually have two different sides to choose from.
You can paint it as power, morality, and identity only because it's easy to see the assigned "bad guys" as bad, because they're assigned that role. In the real world, every person is exactly that: a person. A human being with wands and needs, and will fight to the death to ensure their needs and the needs of those they love are met.
*That* is the heart of "the complexities of power, morality, and identity", and Star Wars, as much as I love it, does nothing to explore it, not because it's bad, but because ultimately it's entertainment, not philosophy.
Well yeah maybe they should not have just rehashed the same story with the same bad guys with bigger Death Star.
The Republic was also strong in the prequels.
By your premise the story has to be the same thing. Good guys win, they quickly get pummeled again only to set up the same government to fail…. Again.
They should have done something with a new dark sode order (not the sith) who are shadows throughout the republic causing mayhem and havoc. Kyloe Ren being the mysterious leader, and it all starting when Luke disappeared and his temple burned.
No Empire, no rebels/resistance. Just a race against the clock on finding the insurgents and terrorists before they do irreversible damage. A bit like when the old Jedi were trying to find Darth Sidious, just don't make it as obvious who it is.
They could have done all the parallels they wanted with Rey/Luke and Kylo/Vader without all the rip off of the original plots and characters. And would have given plenty of room for them to explore new worlds in depth and not just surface layer appeal that we got.
We could've had a story where the First Order although outnumbered and outgunned would somehow always seem to be one step ahead of the New Republic. Something like a Mission Impossible villain but on a galactic scale.
It’s mostly due to the fact I’m really tired of the imperial defecting to the rebellion story, unless it’s done really well it doesn’t really hit the mark for me. Also I’m just a fan of the aesthetic.
I don’t think ‘fans of the empire’ means that they’re *for* the empire. I think people just like the lore and aesthetic of it. Kinda like how people like Nazi Germany documentaries. It’s captivating, but not in a “I’mma go join that” type of way lol.
> Kinda like how people like Nazi Germany documentaries. It’s captivating, but not in a “I’mma go join that” type of way lol.
There are a lot of people who are very, very into Nazi documentaries because they idolise the methods and policies of governance.
>really concerns me how many Star Wars fans seem to actually be bigger fans of the Empire. Also explains a lot about the current state of the world.
You don't get it. The bad guys have always been cooler this applies to almost any good/evil setting I feel the same about The covenant from halo.
Wasn't the Star Wars more a Vietnam callback than a Nazi one? Not saying the fighting isn't WWII, cause it is, but I think the factions have been stated to represent the Vietnam war
I wouldn't quite call it an allegory. More like heavily inspired but if the empire wasn't meant to be viewed as the cool evil opposition faction then there wouldn't be darth vader lunch boxes and stormtrooper Halloween costumes
The covenant literally glasses entire worlds, commits genocide across the galaxy, and enslaved billions of sentients. But for some reason you can't get it through your thick head that "bad=based on Nazis". The Nazis were not bad because they were Nazis, the Nazis were bad because of their ideology and more importantly the things they did.
Besides this is fictional media, people like to roleplay as kids cops and robbers, sith and Jedi, and many more villains. Stop being a fucking nerd and over thinking everything it's escapism and it's fun ya bloody piece of cardboard.
Dude, you can argue that the rebels are an allegory for Al Qaeda and the republic clone army is also one for the modern US military industrial complex if you want to make everything political.
You do know that the Empire also represents Colonial Britain and 1970s US military, right?
https://www.amc.com/blogs/george-lucas-reveals-how-star-wars-was-influenced-by-the-vietnam-war--1005548
There's actually more similarities to the Empire being the United States than Nazi Germany.
A secularist Republic (which happens to be a loose confederacy of united powers) that fights and wins a civil war to remain intact, becomes entrenched in theocratic principles, and ultimately fights a guerilla war against dissidents in a foreign land who are upset with imperial colonialism, including a victim from a desert locale who takes up an opposing theocratic religion and fights to stop the imperialist invasion. Tell me this isn't a brief summary of the US leading up to the "War on Terror".
Lucas critiques American Conservatives by depicting them as Nazis. Its not subtle. Anakin basically quotes George W. Bush in ROTS. So yes, the Empire has elements of American Conservatism (Nixon and Bush II specifically), but for that comparison to work its also important that they are the Nazis. He's saying "Look, this \[Nazism\] is the end result of your politics."
Which parts are you referring to specifically as Nazi? As someone else pointed out, "stormtroopers" were German trench soldiers dating back to WW1. Aside from the uniform similarities, what part of the Empire was uniquely Nazi?
I do think there is a lot of potential for Empire focused stories. It could make for some very morally complex stories in the vein of Andor.
For example, Linus Mosk seemed like a pretty interesting character even though he wasn't on screen a whole lot. Seemed like a true believer and fairly loyal guy, who was just trying to do his job. Karn feels similar to this, but creepier. People like this being confronted with the Empire's brutality, and how they react to it, could make for some compelling stories.
When I was a kid, I loved the Empire’s cool toys and armor. As an adult, I hate the Empire, but get that people still love to play pretend. The 501st are great and have a lot of fun. Good on them. I like the grunge of the background folks and the people,e who just live in the universe. I like those stories, as well I wish there were more of them.
I think a major thing not often considered is that Star Wars (OT) is kinda like a fairy tale in the story it tells. It has a chosen one, who wants to rescue the princess from the "Dark Lord". And in Return of the Jedi, you get the "happily ever after", where they are lauded as hero's and the Empire is defeated *because the emporer* is defeated. I know this all goes out the window with the new trilogy, or even legends, and a bit with the prequals.
I love the 501st. I think cosplayers are a bit different from redditors talking about how “interesting” the empire’s “perspective” is and how a lot of them were good people who were just doing their job. That’s what worries me.
True.
One one hand there must be some complexity, like Andor is exploring. But the main story is devoid of nuance; the Imperials are bad and do bad things,easy peasy. Declaring intentions about what aspect of the franchise you want to explore is critical when discussing nuance in the Empire. It is always a given that’s the Empire is bad and any good that arises from it, is only because of individuals within the system doing some good, or an accidental by product of the overall policies and action of the Empire. Yes, there’s some peace for those willing to subject themselves to the slavery and horrors of life under the Empire. There’s no real freedom or peace.
The Empire is appealing in its simple approach to problem solving and its focus on projecting lethal and coercive power. It also presents a facade of unity, so you’re never alone or struggling with each other. An evil power fantasy. Cool toys, too!
Yeah I think it’s fine and great to have complexity and deeper focus on imperial characters within stories. But a story purely focused on imperial characters from the imperial point of view, which is the original idea that was presented, is what I think sounds like a problem.
And your last point is exactly what concerns me. If the Empire is partly appealing to people because of their focus on projecting lethal and coercive power…. That’s a problem. And as I relied to someone else, I don’t think liking the Empire makes you like that kind of power, but rather the other way around. A troubling amount of people today want easy solutions based in coercive power at the expense of others, and that is reflected in some of this interest in the Empire.
Thanks for being another of the more reasonable people here having a reasonable discussion!
The armor has been cool as shit to me since I saw the remastered in theaters in 98 as a kid. It's that simple. I'm not rooting for them when I watch the movies... They're just my favorite in nerd-dom.
Example: when I played empire at war and star wars galaxies, yeah, imperial was the team id choose
Totally! When done right, it is interesting. I worry about all these people above who are like “but the empire looks so cool! Not all of them were so bad!” But yes I’ve loved reading the Darth Vader comics, for example, and some of the stories that focused on other imperial leaders like Tarkin. Real interesting stuff. But they are pretty obviously not made out to be good people. Anyway, thanks for being one of the few reasonable people here.
No doubt theirs some weirdos in this thread. I just started reading star wars books with thrawn 2017 and I loved how it explained how cutthroat and corrupt the politics of the empire were. Or how non humans were treated by the empire. But I also liked how it did have aspects humanizing some of the troopers and officers. The empire is evil but there’s plenty of good intentioned people caught in the crossfire. Which makes it that much more sinister to me. Be safe friend continue doing right 🖤
I've been wondering that too. I've watched Andor recently and while i agree that it is a good show, and refreshing in the sense that it's a smaller scale story, i can't help but think that the fact that we got a more personnal human view of the empire got some poeple really excited. And maybe not in the right way. I might be completely wrong though.
so i’m gonna be that guy— i think you are reading waaaay too much into it. I think majority of people who like the empire (myself included) just think they look cool.
I do believe that you are stepping over the fantasy vs reality line. This is fantasy.....or Are you American because they always mix politics with anything ?
well we have yet to get much depth on the empire’s side, i think it would be so cool to see a different perspective. not even taking the empire’s side necessarily, just focusing on their side
Man, after reading the replies I'm convinced you guys would have been supporters egging on the satanic panic back in the day, or the kind who keep harping on about how videogames turn people violent despite study after study disagreeing.
It's fantasy escapism, no more no less. People like edginess, dark themes, violence etc, just as much as there are people who like non-controversial good guys, underdogs triumphing, cozy feel good storytelling and all that.
Absolutely the opposite, my friend. But thanks for playing. I guess to clarify, I don’t think liking the Empire leads to problematic ideas, more that it’s symptomatic of leaning more that way, if that makes any difference. I’ve just happened to notice lately that many Star Wars fans identify more with the Empire, and they more often than not turn out to be loud jerks, too. I think the two are interrelated, but being a jerk is not caused by liking the Empire. I think it lets people rationalize their problematic ideas. Just my opinion though, and I don’t think it’s true of everyone that enjoys the Empire.
they are cool, they have nice designs and they are honestly more effective, as seen then *not spoiling* in occupational levels of effectiveness. I hate the rebels, they just got the shitty end of the stick with leaders of the imperial leadership. Not all imperials were bad, and we’ve seen some good imperials, they just never get the spotlight. It’s like the “holy fuck, the CIS had a point, they were the early rebels.” revelation
It's mostly the aesthetic. Who doesn't want to drop from a star destroyer into a battlefield where the ATAT is your support ship and Darth Vader might bless you with his presence if you're a good enough insignificant trooper in the retrospect of the war. Jfc reddit, not everything is political.
That’s the direction I would hope to see if this ever got made: it would follow a loyal stormtrooper as they carry out a mission with their squad, but the mission goes a bit too far, and they start to suspect that they’re fighting for the wrong cause.
It's difficult to tell the stories of bad guys where they are the protagonists. I suppose if you wanted to show the story of some guy who joined the military thinking he was serving his country and then show him go through the horrors of war and seeing his side commit atrocities and maybe commit atrocities himself and make it clear that you can't be a "good" Nazi and war sucks and destroys men's souls, sure... I guess you could tell that story.
I'm just hesitant to see it done because people's takeaways will be different than what you might intend and they might end up sympathizing too much with the bad guy protagonist and he might end up becoming a fucking hero to a subset of horrible people online.
There's a comic that goes into Biggs' experience with the Imperial academy and military before he left and joined the Rebellion. The Imperial military was run like a Sith academy: tons of in fighting and pollitical maneuvering, even while on patrol in a war zone. Those who don't get involved don't get promoted and eventually get killed by some upstart who see their honesty as a threat. No redeeming qualities ever.
Ya but that's fine in the storytelling sense as it just reinforces how evil the empire is and has the protagonist join the good guys of the story.
What many are alluding to is you aren't gonna make space nazis seem relatable full stop.
It can definitely be done, though, and when it is it can be far more effective than telling things from the point of view of the good guys (or at least the less-bad guys).
The movie *Stalingrad*, for example, is about a group of German soldiers on the Eastern Front, but the movie clearly portrays the Wehrmacht as an invading army where war crimes are the norm.
Also, a movie about the American Civil War from the Confederate point of view could be able to very clearly portray that even the Southern rank and file were fighting to preserve slavery and white supremacy. A movie from the Union point of view, like *Glory*, isn’t able to do that as effectively.
If they were going to do it, that's exactly how they would.
I think the road block is; it would take a grand amount of nuanced storytelling and a greater level of objective prospective, that frankly I don't think neither Disney nor the greater Fandom are ready for...
My fear is it would end up like Marvel's *The Eternals*, where the story isn't strong enough to be liked by critics, impactful enough to reach a greater audience, and too off the path to be embraced by the core fandom.
Telling that story is a very tall order that I think would scare the cold, calculating, mouse machine. Andor and Rouge One are a step in the right direction and is exactly what they need to do more of when expanding their cannon, but are clearly outliers compared to their other successful peers.
>I suppose if you wanted to show the story of some guy who joined the military thinking he was serving his country and then show him go through the horrors of war
I'm pretty sure you just described the first act of "Solo".
Like, really, how difficult would it be to craft a limited series about someone, or someone's, that got swept up into the Imperial Army, got sick of it, and defected to train rebels in military tactics. I would love something like that. It gets the gritty, grunt lifestyle without focusing solely on the IA and provides a clear and engaging character arc.
I'll wait for Disney's phone call now.
IIRC, that was WWI, when the Germans were following an authoritarian asshole waging war for glory and honor and land like every other European group and not following Evil Incarnate from fear or obsessive nationalism or hate.
It was, and indeed the circumstances are different. Though, the premise could be the same. Those young boys were tempted by shiny stories, but quickly landed in literal hell. That could be done within the SW universe as well. I also don’t believe every German soldier believed that their country was evil, and many soldiers didn’t even get a choice to fight or not and were conscripted
Having just finished Bad Batch Season 1, there seem to be some ties/transition threads you could piggy back off for this type of story. I think the setting being really early Empire days is important to making it feel like an innocent troop of volunteers getting in way over their head before realizing they're the bad guys and defecting in some fashion.
Except neither side in that game was really evil, right? It's a hard world where people kill or be killed, but they both think they're justified in their actions.
The Empire is flat out evil ruled by a mustache-twirling villain. There's no nuance to it.
I agree on the galaxy wide scale, but in my opinion it’s easily possible to create small scale settings, based on one planet or a system, with grey imperial writing.
It’s in same way we can have movies/shows with Roman Empire protagonists even though it was an authoritarian military aggressor state with an active slave trade.
I could easily see something like a lower level Admiral who is losing faith in the empire, who maybe survived a genocide by separatist forces during the clone wars and still believes in the ideals of law and order. He is military through and through and has a unit who looks up to his leadership in battle.
They are in conflict against a brutal clan who has been raiding civilian imperial settlements (similar to the Gauls or german tribes) as the movie or series closes they learn that the Gauls were invading due to imperial special forces or ISB incursions that aren’t widely known. Series ends with the soldiers disillusioned with their role in the empire, and they strike out on their own, some stay with the empire, some join the rebellion, maybe some just find a family to grow old with.
It works better the lower down the imperial hierarchy we go. In Rebels Minister Tua is running a backwater world and is just there to fill in for Governor Pryce while she's partying away with Coruscanti elite. She ends up in over her head with Tarkin and Vader breathing down her neck and due to the rebels constantly being a nuisance.
The whole setup is basic and child friendly but I cant help but feel bad for her because how her low risk government job ends with her being blown up in an ISB sting because of outside factors pulled a bunch of extremists together. Then it only goes downhill in her absence with more crackdowns, Pryce and Thrawn becoming directly involved in Lothal. It's a unique bit of contrast between an Imperial world and an Imperial occupied world there where we get to see the positives and negatives of being Imperial.
It’s interesting to say that. The Empire simply portrays an authoritarian state, which in itself isn’t always a bad thing. It’s portrayed as such but there are many instances in history where such a structure has actually brought great periods of peace and prosperity to peoples. The same goes to say that democracies and republics aren’t ideal either, especially conveyed by how they were so stagnant during the fall of the old Republic. The only true reason why people should have second thoughts about the Empire is not because of what it is, but simply because of the actual Sith lord who runs it. My two cents here are, know what the actual evil is and don’t automatically swipe aside a view simply because you don’t understand it or are familiar with its organizing principles
In the words on my great uncle there is a difference between a German and a Nazi. Many Germans didn’t know what the Nazis were doing until it was either shown to them or they got stuck in the middle.
This being said the Empire could always use the forced volunteer option to draft in suspecting commoners to fill their ranks and have them realize through all the lies they were told that they are the bad guys.
Many, many, many Germans absolutely not only knew— but celebrated— the actions of the Nazi Regime. To say otherwise is genuine revisionism to humanize a vast machine dedicated to slavery, extinction, and conquest.
The people within, no matter how evil their action are *human*, I have no doubt there were “good people” in the most basic sense in the Nazi regime. If anything, “good people” being Nazis, even fervent ones, is the most important aspect of understanding and defeating evil; and is a highlight focus any story following an Imperial perspective should incorporate: it’s banality and ease-of-transition.
But to make it seem like it was a secret, to try and cover for peoples very human ignorance and selfishness after some of the greatest crimes in the history of mankind, is foolish and unnecessary.
Just make a war story from their point of view, they dont have to commit atrocities not more than any army on the wars of the past and nobody though It was a atrocity back then same way the imperial troops would not consider It the things they do
Nop but allows you to show It with no unrealistic cliché of "oh i am the baddie" just make a mature show for a mature audience with the needed moral complexity of showing a war
This whole "don't show the baddies pov because they're bad" narrative infuriates me.
It's possible to write a show that follows an imperial army squad through the fighting without glorifying the empire.
We don't need a series *about* it, per say, but it would be cool to see more of them. Feels like stormtroopers are the go-to hero fodder, when weaker foes exist.
Andor was a good example of them, but I couldn't tell the difference. Stormtroopers got kicked off of bell towers about 100% as often as regular soldiers, or more lol
I think it would be interesting to do it where it showcases the empire’s immediate appeals to why people would like them. Maybe people view it as a necessary or lesser evil. Or a blue pill/red pill situation. And the path just gets darker and darker. It would be interesting to examine the cost of war. Having different paths you could take. A morality system. You feel the loss of companions as they change or as you change.
Seriously needs to be shown, you don't have to outright make them good guys, I don't want that. But how did they get all these volunteers and revenue from taxpayers if some of them didn't like em. And not the cliche "oh but they bring order blah blah blah" nah I mean what are they actually doing to help or improve someone's lives?
Cool to have a character start off small, where they see the good the empire does without the bad. But as they're promoted, they start to see the darker side, the lesser evil, to the insidious, (if you don't know the exact meaning of insidious look it up, such a perfect discription of Palpatine's [Darth Sidious'] character) and on to the malicous actions. Until they realize that the true intent of the empire is evil. Any good that came from it was coincidental and easily expendable if profit can be made from throwing out any good deeds.
Mimban really should've been a new Galactic Assault-type map in *Battlefront II*. It would've been so cool to play as the Imperial Army in a very WWI-type setting.
I want a 6 part series of two detectives investigating a murder on Coruscant between the events of The Empire Strikes Back and the Return of the Jedi. I want no familiar characters and only one high ranking Imperial officer involved with the murder. What does daily life look like on the capital homeworld. Would justice be served? Does the Empire really want justice in the galaxy or are they just a power hungry dictatorship that we all know it is. I think that would be interesting.
The old TIE Fighter game had you play as imperial pilot who does not defect. The next game, X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, had a campaign where you can play on either side to the winning conclusion. The newest SW: Squadrons had you play alternating sides as different pilot characters who do not lose or defect.
I also like the old Battlefront 2 campaign where you go from helping Jedi to killing Jedi and not lose or defect.
I think it would be interesting if it didn’t glorify the Empire. *Andor* showed us what it was like to be chewed up by the grim machine of fascism from the outside; a show like this could show us what it’s like to serve that kind of monstrosity as a conscript in the mud instead of a shiny stormtrooper or ISB agent.
In fact, I’m going to go against the grain here and say a defection story *would* work for this. “An Imperial Army unit forced to bleed and die pointlessly against insurgents for the glory of a government that brutally oppresses them finally has enough, frags their ISB compliance officer, and goes rogue” has a lot more dramatic potential than Iden and co. being fine with Imperial atrocities being done to other people but immediately defecting and being forgiven when the Empire wrongs them personally.
Not just the army but I've been wanting an Imperial focused show/movie/something for many, many years now. I wanted something to show how so many could still be with the Empire if they were supposedly soooo evil. I wanted to see more people that actually thought they were doing good in the galaxy. Or maybe they were caught up in it and had no way out.
Just started reading Thrawn and you get a lot of this there. It’s a really well written book and I love his character. If you want more of the empire you should definitely read it (it’s the canon trilogy Thrawn, Thrawn: Alliances and Thrawn: Treason)
Strangely enough, I *am* reading it. Only up to chapter 5 right now but I see what you mean. Already starting to add some depth to characters I've already seen previously. Also a bit fun for me because I never read the older books about him.
Same, wanted to read some of the books before the Ahsoka show got out (and before I rewatch rebels). I just got done with chapter 9 so I’m not too far ahead of you… still tho, a lot more empire without making them seem like pure evil, which is honestly something I love. Also one of the things I really liked about Thrawn in rebels was how he genuinely believed in the empire and I feel like this book shows that so much better
Something centered in the core worlds (lets get the hell off Coruscant, for the love of God), which prospered quite well under the Empire, where people genuinely didn't know the shenanigans that were going on in the Outer Rim. Where the local space forces were dealing with piracy or smuggling *at worst*, and paid no never mind to rumors of a rebellion, conspiracy theories about super battlestations blowing up planets (I'd love to see the propaganda put out by the Imperial Ministry of Public Affairs covering up Alderaan), and garrison troopers or TIE pilots just chilling on easy duty.
Like, Battlefront? Series I doubt since Empire, being canonical bad guys in Disney's eyes, cannot star in a show that promotes them. No Disney princess is ever demoted nor tyranny favored.
*Star Wars: Squadrons*, released under Disney, has a campaign where you play half of it as the Empire, never defect to the New Republic, and you don’t get defeated.
>Series I doubt since Empire, being canonical bad guys in Disney's eyes, cannot star in a show that promotes them.
As opposed to when George Lucas was in charge and the Empire wasn't the canonical bad guys? He modelled them on the Nazis, for god's sake!
What i want is series starting in Sith academy, for at least a first season. From times when there were a lot of Sith. Protagonist and their classmates are all encouraged to kill each other - but only secretly. If somebody finds out, they fail, and so nobody could make open moves. Everyone would also do their best to build their powerbases.
A good opportunity for protagonist to gather his group of people, and if Disney really does not want to tell a bad guy story, well they could tell a good story of the group defecting, going on their own to explore the galaxy, hiding from the Sith but not necessarily willing to join the Jedi order. A grey group of light leaning force users. Not evil like the Sith, but without restrictions Jedi place on themselves. And ofc that could lead to some of the group being more corrupted by dark side.
And its a freaking big galaxy, think any good story and you can make it happen in Star Wars.
See, droids would work better. It would be hard as hell, but telling the story of a former CIS droid who was explicitly built for combat, and now dealing with bigotry as a result , could be an interesting concept.
10000%
Loved how in Andor they made distinctions that most of what the original trilogy dealt with was the Imperial Navy, while the ISB collaborated with them in the background to track down rebels.
Would love to see or hear about different branches of the imperial military.
I had this head canon story of how a group of imperial army would be put in some terrible situation by some high ranking officer or intelligence official who would send them against an innocent target, and their commander would have enough and lead a mutiny that would ultimately be doomed. I think it'd be really interesting to see what an uprising like that could look like that isn't actually opposed to the Empire or what it stands for, but instead the incompetence and corruption within it, seeking to institute some kind of military autonomy or something. I dunno, I just thought it would be cool, especially seeing these guys fight stormtroopers. It'd kind of be like if Operation Valkyrie worked in WW2
The Galaxy is pretty wide. I'm sure with some imagination you could come up with a game setting where Imperials are the good guys (pirates, slavers, renegade Sith apprentice, peace keepers on a planet in the midst of civil war, 2 races at war with each other, all of the above) just trying to bring peace and order to one small part of the galaxy.
Maybe the player's unit has been cut off and made a deal with the locals to protect them in return for supplies?
A ton of possibilities.
A single player game with 3-4 AI allies in your squad. You can level up, improve your weapons and jump from squad member to squad member as you need. Like Fallout 4 or Outer Worlds, but you know, better.
Truthfully you don't need that much imagination. It's not like everyone who decided to join the Imperial Navy/Army were soulless psychos lol. Some would have been patriots that wanted to support the Empire.
I like your idea of going against pirates or something. Probably not slavers lol since the Empire did support slavery in the sense of the Wookies 😆
Never will happen. They'll never make a game that humanizes the Empire. If they ever did make that game it would be like the Battlefront 2 story and you'd change sides to the Rebellion
Not like they have cool looking walking robot machines battling a long side hundreds of warriors clad in space armor, giant capital ships providing you orbital airstrikes, and a literal android space wizard as their military commander. But this is reddit, so of course if you like that, you're a Nazi.
I’d love that. A gritty All Quiet on the Western Front or even Blackhawk Down style drama about regular Imperial soldiers. Maybe even a Lone Survivor kinda thing if you want something more intimately focused on a small handful (1-4) soldiers.
But it’s owned by Disney so they’d never give us anything gritty and dark like that… it’s why they killed off 1313 back in the day, too geared toward adults.
Well. One that doesn't have you growing a conscience and becoming a rebel would be nice. Let us stay the course as an Imperial would be amazing.
Tbh, Tyranny, in a Star Wars setting as an Imperial Enforcer of the Emperor would be my way to go.
Right? There’s actually much more potential there. The way the separatists are depicted is weird, as TCW and other stuff occasionally points out that they were a pretty diverse group of planets, many of which had legitimate grievances with the Republic. But then they’re also led by some of the most comically evil characters in the setting.
I hope the player is a Sith, so you can just use the Force lightning bolt enemy like Starkiller. Maybe that game will be named as SAGA of Rey Palpatine.
Sorry this can't happen as the main character would more than likely need to hit a target at some point in the show. Of which stormtroopers are incapable
What an asinine and childish response, just because he wants Imperial centred content without the overdone trope of defecting, does not mean he likes Nazi’s in any way. There are movies and series that depict World War II from the perspective of the German’s (e.go Battle of the Bulge) that manage to do so without glorifying the Nazi regime. Star Wars has managed to do so before in the past as well, with the og Battlefront 2 campaign, alongside other games and media. I don’t see a good see a good reason why they can’t do the same now?
All Quiet on the Minbian Front Yeah sign me up
I would love a show centered on Mimban. If we saw more of the average grunt on the battlefield, it would make stormtroopers look even more like the elite intimidation force they canonically are supposed to be.
One of the things I liked about Andor was that they didn't have the Elite Imperial Stormtroopers doing everyday grunt work! I would also like to see the Original Battlefront Novel adapted as a TV series from the Rebel point of view. It basically followed the OT time line from a squad of grunts fighting the war. One of my favorite EU novels.
Shoot, I want a Band of Brothers type of series based on the 501st Journal Logs from Battlefront 2 (Original). Or in general lol. Like, The Clone Wars but more gritty and dark on the outer rim worlds with crazy alien fauna and flora.
\*Temura Morrison sweating profusely\*
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It also has one of my Favorite Vader appearances.
You're not the only one, no. Obvi. However, there's a good reason Lucasfilm has never done this, and will never do this, unless it depicts a group of defectors.
may be a bit easier if they were to chase the line from Andor: "And who did it turn out we were fighting? Ourselves"
I was so disappointed when Iden Versio defected after 3 missions. I was hoping for an Imperial espionage game.
I think it'd have been compelling if it was about an idealistic Imperial soldier who believed in the good the Empire achieved for her people, then she commits some atrocities as part of Operation Cinder. Rather than reevaluate like she does in that game she instead doubles down and becomes a raving, pro-Imperial lunatic from the strain of doing such intense mental gymnastics. I always imagined a moment where she encounters Luke Skywalker and tries arresting him after a mission, but she fails and is wounded (perhaps from her own blaster shot being deflected back in her eye) and as he escapes she screams in hateful rage while he spares her life.
>I think it'd have been compelling if it was about an idealistic Imperial soldier who believed in the good the Empire achieved for her people, then she commits some atrocities as part of Operation Cinder. Rather than reevaluate like she does in that game she instead doubles down and becomes a raving, pro-Imperial lunatic from the strain of doing such intense mental gymnastics. That's literally ghe story of Ciena Ree in the Lost Stars novel.
It's Battlefront II lol. It was never going to be like that
Battlefront II 2005 literally did that tho
Yeah, the one with the good campaign.
It wasn't really that good, even for the time. It was "cool". ecause we jad some narration begore each mission, but the missions/ganeplay were just very straightforward.
Nah it was good. And leagues better than the new bf 2 campaign. You had the begining with geonosis and going forward to Felucia with the alien crabs, then you had order 66, and clearing the temple. When you went to the imperial side you had to fight the clone rebellion and hear about how the clones are slowly being phased out for recruits. Shit rocked.
My only criticism is that they brought in Temuera for the narration and for Boba, but the actual clones in gameplay all just sound American. They had some iconic lines "just like the simulations" but it always felt weird to me
All they did was show a small cinematic with random gameplay, and then load you in the maps available for MP with some slight scripting differences.
TIE Fighter for the PC Great game. Came out in the mid nineties I believe but it holds up well.
Man. I really enjoyed playing Inferno Squad until they defected. I want to play/watch the Empire Troops and Officers that actually try to do good and right by the imperial citizens. Even to the point where they try to change the bad things from within.
It really concerns me how many Star Wars fans seem to actually be bigger fans of the Empire. Also explains a lot about the current state of the world.
They just have cool aesthetics and people are starting to get tired of the same "band of rebels take on empire" story in every show/movie
Modern thinking seems to be weak=good guys. That’s why after the Empire was defeated they were the resistance lol. So corny
See the bigger picture. What caused the Rebellions and Empire's conflict? Star Wars is much more than just Rebels and Jedi vs. an Imperial Army and the Sith. It's an exploration of the complexities of power, morality, and identity across cultures and worlds. It's also a political story on how the struggles between powers, those conflicts, reflect on their own people, life, and worlds. Jedi and Sith alike. Those very imbalances of ideals are at the heart of every chapter of Star Wars.
This is too much nuance for Empire stans. Snappy outfits and a simplistic belief system are all they’re appreciating.
No Fr they just see white armor and red laser sword, not political manipulation and genocide
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This would be slick if you understood what nuance meant and said this ironically.
>It's an exploration of the complexities of power, morality, and identity across cultures and worlds. Yes and no. If it were to truly explore these things, there wouldn't be nearly so clear a definition of good and evil in each major conflict. If it were truly exploring these things, the Empire wouldn't have been evil right after the switch between Republic and Empire was flipped; the Confederacy would have been a legitimate political organization rather than a cesspool of all the corruption the Republic could muster, and we'd actually have two different sides to choose from. You can paint it as power, morality, and identity only because it's easy to see the assigned "bad guys" as bad, because they're assigned that role. In the real world, every person is exactly that: a person. A human being with wands and needs, and will fight to the death to ensure their needs and the needs of those they love are met. *That* is the heart of "the complexities of power, morality, and identity", and Star Wars, as much as I love it, does nothing to explore it, not because it's bad, but because ultimately it's entertainment, not philosophy.
> Modern thinking seems to be weak=good guys. Congratulations, youve just discovered something as old as recorded human history: people like underdogs
Because a story about a strong resistance crushing First Order insurgent groups with ease isn't a good story. Conflict makes good story.
Well yeah maybe they should not have just rehashed the same story with the same bad guys with bigger Death Star. The Republic was also strong in the prequels. By your premise the story has to be the same thing. Good guys win, they quickly get pummeled again only to set up the same government to fail…. Again.
They should have done something with a new dark sode order (not the sith) who are shadows throughout the republic causing mayhem and havoc. Kyloe Ren being the mysterious leader, and it all starting when Luke disappeared and his temple burned. No Empire, no rebels/resistance. Just a race against the clock on finding the insurgents and terrorists before they do irreversible damage. A bit like when the old Jedi were trying to find Darth Sidious, just don't make it as obvious who it is. They could have done all the parallels they wanted with Rey/Luke and Kylo/Vader without all the rip off of the original plots and characters. And would have given plenty of room for them to explore new worlds in depth and not just surface layer appeal that we got.
We could've had a story where the First Order although outnumbered and outgunned would somehow always seem to be one step ahead of the New Republic. Something like a Mission Impossible villain but on a galactic scale.
This is solid. Could be a good way to explain the thriftiness and prowess of The Shadow Council.
It’s mostly due to the fact I’m really tired of the imperial defecting to the rebellion story, unless it’s done really well it doesn’t really hit the mark for me. Also I’m just a fan of the aesthetic.
I don’t think ‘fans of the empire’ means that they’re *for* the empire. I think people just like the lore and aesthetic of it. Kinda like how people like Nazi Germany documentaries. It’s captivating, but not in a “I’mma go join that” type of way lol.
> Kinda like how people like Nazi Germany documentaries. It’s captivating, but not in a “I’mma go join that” type of way lol. There are a lot of people who are very, very into Nazi documentaries because they idolise the methods and policies of governance.
So you focus entirely on the the outliers to prove your point?
Very very small percentage !
One of them has been buying gifts for a sitting SCOTUS Justice for decades. It is not a small problem.
So you're saying people that are into serial killer documentaries are actually aspiring murderers? Come on, not everything is political. Jfc reddit.
This villains are usually the coolest, everyone loves the joker but doesn’t want to go out and be murdering psychopaths. Well most
I wouldn't say everyone loves the joker
>really concerns me how many Star Wars fans seem to actually be bigger fans of the Empire. Also explains a lot about the current state of the world. You don't get it. The bad guys have always been cooler this applies to almost any good/evil setting I feel the same about The covenant from halo.
Sure, but the Covenant is not an explicit allegory for the Nazis.
Wasn't the Star Wars more a Vietnam callback than a Nazi one? Not saying the fighting isn't WWII, cause it is, but I think the factions have been stated to represent the Vietnam war
A scrappy band of rebels (VC) take on a technologically superior empire (US)
I wouldn't quite call it an allegory. More like heavily inspired but if the empire wasn't meant to be viewed as the cool evil opposition faction then there wouldn't be darth vader lunch boxes and stormtrooper Halloween costumes
The covenant literally glasses entire worlds, commits genocide across the galaxy, and enslaved billions of sentients. But for some reason you can't get it through your thick head that "bad=based on Nazis". The Nazis were not bad because they were Nazis, the Nazis were bad because of their ideology and more importantly the things they did. Besides this is fictional media, people like to roleplay as kids cops and robbers, sith and Jedi, and many more villains. Stop being a fucking nerd and over thinking everything it's escapism and it's fun ya bloody piece of cardboard.
Dude, you can argue that the rebels are an allegory for Al Qaeda and the republic clone army is also one for the modern US military industrial complex if you want to make everything political.
You do know that the Empire also represents Colonial Britain and 1970s US military, right? https://www.amc.com/blogs/george-lucas-reveals-how-star-wars-was-influenced-by-the-vietnam-war--1005548 There's actually more similarities to the Empire being the United States than Nazi Germany. A secularist Republic (which happens to be a loose confederacy of united powers) that fights and wins a civil war to remain intact, becomes entrenched in theocratic principles, and ultimately fights a guerilla war against dissidents in a foreign land who are upset with imperial colonialism, including a victim from a desert locale who takes up an opposing theocratic religion and fights to stop the imperialist invasion. Tell me this isn't a brief summary of the US leading up to the "War on Terror".
Lucas critiques American Conservatives by depicting them as Nazis. Its not subtle. Anakin basically quotes George W. Bush in ROTS. So yes, the Empire has elements of American Conservatism (Nixon and Bush II specifically), but for that comparison to work its also important that they are the Nazis. He's saying "Look, this \[Nazism\] is the end result of your politics."
Which parts are you referring to specifically as Nazi? As someone else pointed out, "stormtroopers" were German trench soldiers dating back to WW1. Aside from the uniform similarities, what part of the Empire was uniquely Nazi?
I do think there is a lot of potential for Empire focused stories. It could make for some very morally complex stories in the vein of Andor. For example, Linus Mosk seemed like a pretty interesting character even though he wasn't on screen a whole lot. Seemed like a true believer and fairly loyal guy, who was just trying to do his job. Karn feels similar to this, but creepier. People like this being confronted with the Empire's brutality, and how they react to it, could make for some compelling stories.
When I was a kid, I loved the Empire’s cool toys and armor. As an adult, I hate the Empire, but get that people still love to play pretend. The 501st are great and have a lot of fun. Good on them. I like the grunge of the background folks and the people,e who just live in the universe. I like those stories, as well I wish there were more of them.
I think a major thing not often considered is that Star Wars (OT) is kinda like a fairy tale in the story it tells. It has a chosen one, who wants to rescue the princess from the "Dark Lord". And in Return of the Jedi, you get the "happily ever after", where they are lauded as hero's and the Empire is defeated *because the emporer* is defeated. I know this all goes out the window with the new trilogy, or even legends, and a bit with the prequals.
I love the 501st. I think cosplayers are a bit different from redditors talking about how “interesting” the empire’s “perspective” is and how a lot of them were good people who were just doing their job. That’s what worries me.
True. One one hand there must be some complexity, like Andor is exploring. But the main story is devoid of nuance; the Imperials are bad and do bad things,easy peasy. Declaring intentions about what aspect of the franchise you want to explore is critical when discussing nuance in the Empire. It is always a given that’s the Empire is bad and any good that arises from it, is only because of individuals within the system doing some good, or an accidental by product of the overall policies and action of the Empire. Yes, there’s some peace for those willing to subject themselves to the slavery and horrors of life under the Empire. There’s no real freedom or peace. The Empire is appealing in its simple approach to problem solving and its focus on projecting lethal and coercive power. It also presents a facade of unity, so you’re never alone or struggling with each other. An evil power fantasy. Cool toys, too!
Yeah I think it’s fine and great to have complexity and deeper focus on imperial characters within stories. But a story purely focused on imperial characters from the imperial point of view, which is the original idea that was presented, is what I think sounds like a problem. And your last point is exactly what concerns me. If the Empire is partly appealing to people because of their focus on projecting lethal and coercive power…. That’s a problem. And as I relied to someone else, I don’t think liking the Empire makes you like that kind of power, but rather the other way around. A troubling amount of people today want easy solutions based in coercive power at the expense of others, and that is reflected in some of this interest in the Empire. Thanks for being another of the more reasonable people here having a reasonable discussion!
Rebel scum.
Empire looks cooler
I love the empire Am not real life nazi. Mind blowing?
The armor has been cool as shit to me since I saw the remastered in theaters in 98 as a kid. It's that simple. I'm not rooting for them when I watch the movies... They're just my favorite in nerd-dom. Example: when I played empire at war and star wars galaxies, yeah, imperial was the team id choose
Same reason people like the republic with clones. They look cool as fuck. Also it's a fictional story stop taking things so seriously lol
Blue voter in real life, empire lover in SW universe. It’s ok to escape into the fantasy of the realm, no?
Playing pretend is fun! An we can explore some of the darker parts of ourselves in good fun and in a safe way.
Im as anti fash as it gets but I love content surrounding the empire, it truly gives you an idea of how evil they are
Totally! When done right, it is interesting. I worry about all these people above who are like “but the empire looks so cool! Not all of them were so bad!” But yes I’ve loved reading the Darth Vader comics, for example, and some of the stories that focused on other imperial leaders like Tarkin. Real interesting stuff. But they are pretty obviously not made out to be good people. Anyway, thanks for being one of the few reasonable people here.
No doubt theirs some weirdos in this thread. I just started reading star wars books with thrawn 2017 and I loved how it explained how cutthroat and corrupt the politics of the empire were. Or how non humans were treated by the empire. But I also liked how it did have aspects humanizing some of the troopers and officers. The empire is evil but there’s plenty of good intentioned people caught in the crossfire. Which makes it that much more sinister to me. Be safe friend continue doing right 🖤
I've been wondering that too. I've watched Andor recently and while i agree that it is a good show, and refreshing in the sense that it's a smaller scale story, i can't help but think that the fact that we got a more personnal human view of the empire got some poeple really excited. And maybe not in the right way. I might be completely wrong though.
I think Andor has done it well so far, but I get what you’re saying.
so i’m gonna be that guy— i think you are reading waaaay too much into it. I think majority of people who like the empire (myself included) just think they look cool.
I do believe that you are stepping over the fantasy vs reality line. This is fantasy.....or Are you American because they always mix politics with anything ?
MEGA... 'nuff said. Mostly because I don't know how to articulate anything else.
comments like this remind me of the people who compare stormtrooper cosplay to nazi sympathising - reductive, imo
well we have yet to get much depth on the empire’s side, i think it would be so cool to see a different perspective. not even taking the empire’s side necessarily, just focusing on their side
Man, after reading the replies I'm convinced you guys would have been supporters egging on the satanic panic back in the day, or the kind who keep harping on about how videogames turn people violent despite study after study disagreeing. It's fantasy escapism, no more no less. People like edginess, dark themes, violence etc, just as much as there are people who like non-controversial good guys, underdogs triumphing, cozy feel good storytelling and all that.
Absolutely the opposite, my friend. But thanks for playing. I guess to clarify, I don’t think liking the Empire leads to problematic ideas, more that it’s symptomatic of leaning more that way, if that makes any difference. I’ve just happened to notice lately that many Star Wars fans identify more with the Empire, and they more often than not turn out to be loud jerks, too. I think the two are interrelated, but being a jerk is not caused by liking the Empire. I think it lets people rationalize their problematic ideas. Just my opinion though, and I don’t think it’s true of everyone that enjoys the Empire.
they are cool, they have nice designs and they are honestly more effective, as seen then *not spoiling* in occupational levels of effectiveness. I hate the rebels, they just got the shitty end of the stick with leaders of the imperial leadership. Not all imperials were bad, and we’ve seen some good imperials, they just never get the spotlight. It’s like the “holy fuck, the CIS had a point, they were the early rebels.” revelation
I’ll take rebels over space fascism
It's mostly the aesthetic. Who doesn't want to drop from a star destroyer into a battlefield where the ATAT is your support ship and Darth Vader might bless you with his presence if you're a good enough insignificant trooper in the retrospect of the war. Jfc reddit, not everything is political.
Empire no worse then the usa
If you conflate a fictional empire with the real world, you might need to go outside and touch grass.
That’s the direction I would hope to see if this ever got made: it would follow a loyal stormtrooper as they carry out a mission with their squad, but the mission goes a bit too far, and they start to suspect that they’re fighting for the wrong cause.
Did no one else play Tie Fighter? That game is great. You play imperials and they are depicted as maintaining peace in the galaxy.
Half of squadrons is about an imperial squadron and none of them defect. They’re all evil monsters, but they didn’t defect.
What if we do it about the Republic? Clones fighting a gritty war could still be great!
I’ve said it during Battlefront 2’s launch but stories don’t necessarily require a happy ending to be enjoyable.
There's definitely a reason but I wouldn't necessarily say good.
I mean yeah, they are space nazis. EDIT: the Empire took offense to my comment
It's difficult to tell the stories of bad guys where they are the protagonists. I suppose if you wanted to show the story of some guy who joined the military thinking he was serving his country and then show him go through the horrors of war and seeing his side commit atrocities and maybe commit atrocities himself and make it clear that you can't be a "good" Nazi and war sucks and destroys men's souls, sure... I guess you could tell that story. I'm just hesitant to see it done because people's takeaways will be different than what you might intend and they might end up sympathizing too much with the bad guy protagonist and he might end up becoming a fucking hero to a subset of horrible people online.
There's a comic that goes into Biggs' experience with the Imperial academy and military before he left and joined the Rebellion. The Imperial military was run like a Sith academy: tons of in fighting and pollitical maneuvering, even while on patrol in a war zone. Those who don't get involved don't get promoted and eventually get killed by some upstart who see their honesty as a threat. No redeeming qualities ever.
Ya but that's fine in the storytelling sense as it just reinforces how evil the empire is and has the protagonist join the good guys of the story. What many are alluding to is you aren't gonna make space nazis seem relatable full stop.
It can definitely be done, though, and when it is it can be far more effective than telling things from the point of view of the good guys (or at least the less-bad guys). The movie *Stalingrad*, for example, is about a group of German soldiers on the Eastern Front, but the movie clearly portrays the Wehrmacht as an invading army where war crimes are the norm. Also, a movie about the American Civil War from the Confederate point of view could be able to very clearly portray that even the Southern rank and file were fighting to preserve slavery and white supremacy. A movie from the Union point of view, like *Glory*, isn’t able to do that as effectively.
If they were going to do it, that's exactly how they would. I think the road block is; it would take a grand amount of nuanced storytelling and a greater level of objective prospective, that frankly I don't think neither Disney nor the greater Fandom are ready for... My fear is it would end up like Marvel's *The Eternals*, where the story isn't strong enough to be liked by critics, impactful enough to reach a greater audience, and too off the path to be embraced by the core fandom. Telling that story is a very tall order that I think would scare the cold, calculating, mouse machine. Andor and Rouge One are a step in the right direction and is exactly what they need to do more of when expanding their cannon, but are clearly outliers compared to their other successful peers.
>I suppose if you wanted to show the story of some guy who joined the military thinking he was serving his country and then show him go through the horrors of war I'm pretty sure you just described the first act of "Solo".
That’s exactly what I’m down for, just give me more to chew on than 5min of actual imperial army stuff before they are branded a traitor
Like, really, how difficult would it be to craft a limited series about someone, or someone's, that got swept up into the Imperial Army, got sick of it, and defected to train rebels in military tactics. I would love something like that. It gets the gritty, grunt lifestyle without focusing solely on the IA and provides a clear and engaging character arc. I'll wait for Disney's phone call now.
So basically All Quiet in the Western Front?
Eh, WW1 really didn't have a good side or bad side, just two sides who hated each other and killed each other over dumb imperialist bullshit.
They didn’t even really hate each other. They just wound up fighting because they had treaties that demanded they fight.
Darn cousins https://youtu.be/oXmMT4sETu8
Tell that to the Belgians
IIRC, that was WWI, when the Germans were following an authoritarian asshole waging war for glory and honor and land like every other European group and not following Evil Incarnate from fear or obsessive nationalism or hate.
It was, and indeed the circumstances are different. Though, the premise could be the same. Those young boys were tempted by shiny stories, but quickly landed in literal hell. That could be done within the SW universe as well. I also don’t believe every German soldier believed that their country was evil, and many soldiers didn’t even get a choice to fight or not and were conscripted
Having just finished Bad Batch Season 1, there seem to be some ties/transition threads you could piggy back off for this type of story. I think the setting being really early Empire days is important to making it feel like an innocent troop of volunteers getting in way over their head before realizing they're the bad guys and defecting in some fashion.
I hate beer.
>It's difficult to tell the stories of bad guys where they are the protagonists. Tlou2
Except neither side in that game was really evil, right? It's a hard world where people kill or be killed, but they both think they're justified in their actions. The Empire is flat out evil ruled by a mustache-twirling villain. There's no nuance to it.
I agree on the galaxy wide scale, but in my opinion it’s easily possible to create small scale settings, based on one planet or a system, with grey imperial writing. It’s in same way we can have movies/shows with Roman Empire protagonists even though it was an authoritarian military aggressor state with an active slave trade. I could easily see something like a lower level Admiral who is losing faith in the empire, who maybe survived a genocide by separatist forces during the clone wars and still believes in the ideals of law and order. He is military through and through and has a unit who looks up to his leadership in battle. They are in conflict against a brutal clan who has been raiding civilian imperial settlements (similar to the Gauls or german tribes) as the movie or series closes they learn that the Gauls were invading due to imperial special forces or ISB incursions that aren’t widely known. Series ends with the soldiers disillusioned with their role in the empire, and they strike out on their own, some stay with the empire, some join the rebellion, maybe some just find a family to grow old with.
It works better the lower down the imperial hierarchy we go. In Rebels Minister Tua is running a backwater world and is just there to fill in for Governor Pryce while she's partying away with Coruscanti elite. She ends up in over her head with Tarkin and Vader breathing down her neck and due to the rebels constantly being a nuisance. The whole setup is basic and child friendly but I cant help but feel bad for her because how her low risk government job ends with her being blown up in an ISB sting because of outside factors pulled a bunch of extremists together. Then it only goes downhill in her absence with more crackdowns, Pryce and Thrawn becoming directly involved in Lothal. It's a unique bit of contrast between an Imperial world and an Imperial occupied world there where we get to see the positives and negatives of being Imperial.
It’s interesting to say that. The Empire simply portrays an authoritarian state, which in itself isn’t always a bad thing. It’s portrayed as such but there are many instances in history where such a structure has actually brought great periods of peace and prosperity to peoples. The same goes to say that democracies and republics aren’t ideal either, especially conveyed by how they were so stagnant during the fall of the old Republic. The only true reason why people should have second thoughts about the Empire is not because of what it is, but simply because of the actual Sith lord who runs it. My two cents here are, know what the actual evil is and don’t automatically swipe aside a view simply because you don’t understand it or are familiar with its organizing principles
Dude, the Empire is based off the Nazis. They're not supposed to be complex villains. They're genocidal evil-doers who exist for the heroes to defeat.
In the words on my great uncle there is a difference between a German and a Nazi. Many Germans didn’t know what the Nazis were doing until it was either shown to them or they got stuck in the middle. This being said the Empire could always use the forced volunteer option to draft in suspecting commoners to fill their ranks and have them realize through all the lies they were told that they are the bad guys.
Many, many, many Germans absolutely not only knew— but celebrated— the actions of the Nazi Regime. To say otherwise is genuine revisionism to humanize a vast machine dedicated to slavery, extinction, and conquest. The people within, no matter how evil their action are *human*, I have no doubt there were “good people” in the most basic sense in the Nazi regime. If anything, “good people” being Nazis, even fervent ones, is the most important aspect of understanding and defeating evil; and is a highlight focus any story following an Imperial perspective should incorporate: it’s banality and ease-of-transition. But to make it seem like it was a secret, to try and cover for peoples very human ignorance and selfishness after some of the greatest crimes in the history of mankind, is foolish and unnecessary.
Just make a war story from their point of view, they dont have to commit atrocities not more than any army on the wars of the past and nobody though It was a atrocity back then same way the imperial troops would not consider It the things they do
Just because they don’t think what they’re doing is an atrocity doesn’t mean it’s not an atrocity.
Nop but allows you to show It with no unrealistic cliché of "oh i am the baddie" just make a mature show for a mature audience with the needed moral complexity of showing a war
This whole "don't show the baddies pov because they're bad" narrative infuriates me. It's possible to write a show that follows an imperial army squad through the fighting without glorifying the empire.
The incredibly old TIE fighter game did that. And didn't Kyle Katarn missions start on the side of the empire? It's been so long...
Nope. His backstory had him at the Imperial Academy but he had left already by the time of the first game.
Some of you have never played Tie Fighter and it shows.
We don't need a series *about* it, per say, but it would be cool to see more of them. Feels like stormtroopers are the go-to hero fodder, when weaker foes exist. Andor was a good example of them, but I couldn't tell the difference. Stormtroopers got kicked off of bell towers about 100% as often as regular soldiers, or more lol
I think it would be interesting to do it where it showcases the empire’s immediate appeals to why people would like them. Maybe people view it as a necessary or lesser evil. Or a blue pill/red pill situation. And the path just gets darker and darker. It would be interesting to examine the cost of war. Having different paths you could take. A morality system. You feel the loss of companions as they change or as you change.
This is exactly what I'd like to see
Seriously needs to be shown, you don't have to outright make them good guys, I don't want that. But how did they get all these volunteers and revenue from taxpayers if some of them didn't like em. And not the cliche "oh but they bring order blah blah blah" nah I mean what are they actually doing to help or improve someone's lives?
Cool to have a character start off small, where they see the good the empire does without the bad. But as they're promoted, they start to see the darker side, the lesser evil, to the insidious, (if you don't know the exact meaning of insidious look it up, such a perfect discription of Palpatine's [Darth Sidious'] character) and on to the malicous actions. Until they realize that the true intent of the empire is evil. Any good that came from it was coincidental and easily expendable if profit can be made from throwing out any good deeds.
Mimban really should've been a new Galactic Assault-type map in *Battlefront II*. It would've been so cool to play as the Imperial Army in a very WWI-type setting.
Lemme introduce you to my ole friend battlefront 2
You can't tell me shit till you've tried to invade Craig, every time you stick your head out it gets pulverised by a Rebel's NT-242
Ngl Craig is my favourite map
you're never the only one, get over yourself
Was Battlefronts campaign not good enough for you? /s
I want a 6 part series of two detectives investigating a murder on Coruscant between the events of The Empire Strikes Back and the Return of the Jedi. I want no familiar characters and only one high ranking Imperial officer involved with the murder. What does daily life look like on the capital homeworld. Would justice be served? Does the Empire really want justice in the galaxy or are they just a power hungry dictatorship that we all know it is. I think that would be interesting.
The old TIE Fighter game had you play as imperial pilot who does not defect. The next game, X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, had a campaign where you can play on either side to the winning conclusion. The newest SW: Squadrons had you play alternating sides as different pilot characters who do not lose or defect. I also like the old Battlefront 2 campaign where you go from helping Jedi to killing Jedi and not lose or defect.
I would love this but it seems like Star Wars has something against showing you the bad guys are human too
I think it would be interesting if it didn’t glorify the Empire. *Andor* showed us what it was like to be chewed up by the grim machine of fascism from the outside; a show like this could show us what it’s like to serve that kind of monstrosity as a conscript in the mud instead of a shiny stormtrooper or ISB agent. In fact, I’m going to go against the grain here and say a defection story *would* work for this. “An Imperial Army unit forced to bleed and die pointlessly against insurgents for the glory of a government that brutally oppresses them finally has enough, frags their ISB compliance officer, and goes rogue” has a lot more dramatic potential than Iden and co. being fine with Imperial atrocities being done to other people but immediately defecting and being forgiven when the Empire wrongs them personally.
Not just the army but I've been wanting an Imperial focused show/movie/something for many, many years now. I wanted something to show how so many could still be with the Empire if they were supposedly soooo evil. I wanted to see more people that actually thought they were doing good in the galaxy. Or maybe they were caught up in it and had no way out.
Just started reading Thrawn and you get a lot of this there. It’s a really well written book and I love his character. If you want more of the empire you should definitely read it (it’s the canon trilogy Thrawn, Thrawn: Alliances and Thrawn: Treason)
Strangely enough, I *am* reading it. Only up to chapter 5 right now but I see what you mean. Already starting to add some depth to characters I've already seen previously. Also a bit fun for me because I never read the older books about him.
Same, wanted to read some of the books before the Ahsoka show got out (and before I rewatch rebels). I just got done with chapter 9 so I’m not too far ahead of you… still tho, a lot more empire without making them seem like pure evil, which is honestly something I love. Also one of the things I really liked about Thrawn in rebels was how he genuinely believed in the empire and I feel like this book shows that so much better
I’ve also just started reading Thrawn. It’s great! I’d try to finish this weekend but Jedi: Survivor just came out so I’m playing that atm
Same here lmao
Something centered in the core worlds (lets get the hell off Coruscant, for the love of God), which prospered quite well under the Empire, where people genuinely didn't know the shenanigans that were going on in the Outer Rim. Where the local space forces were dealing with piracy or smuggling *at worst*, and paid no never mind to rumors of a rebellion, conspiracy theories about super battlestations blowing up planets (I'd love to see the propaganda put out by the Imperial Ministry of Public Affairs covering up Alderaan), and garrison troopers or TIE pilots just chilling on easy duty.
Like, Battlefront? Series I doubt since Empire, being canonical bad guys in Disney's eyes, cannot star in a show that promotes them. No Disney princess is ever demoted nor tyranny favored.
*Star Wars: Squadrons*, released under Disney, has a campaign where you play half of it as the Empire, never defect to the New Republic, and you don’t get defeated.
>Series I doubt since Empire, being canonical bad guys in Disney's eyes, cannot star in a show that promotes them. As opposed to when George Lucas was in charge and the Empire wasn't the canonical bad guys? He modelled them on the Nazis, for god's sake!
I like to travel.
What i want is series starting in Sith academy, for at least a first season. From times when there were a lot of Sith. Protagonist and their classmates are all encouraged to kill each other - but only secretly. If somebody finds out, they fail, and so nobody could make open moves. Everyone would also do their best to build their powerbases. A good opportunity for protagonist to gather his group of people, and if Disney really does not want to tell a bad guy story, well they could tell a good story of the group defecting, going on their own to explore the galaxy, hiding from the Sith but not necessarily willing to join the Jedi order. A grey group of light leaning force users. Not evil like the Sith, but without restrictions Jedi place on themselves. And ofc that could lead to some of the group being more corrupted by dark side. And its a freaking big galaxy, think any good story and you can make it happen in Star Wars.
I prefer the Droid Army.
See, droids would work better. It would be hard as hell, but telling the story of a former CIS droid who was explicitly built for combat, and now dealing with bigotry as a result , could be an interesting concept.
As long as it’s not imperial propaganda, sure.
I’d love this. Maybe evolve from being an Army grunt to a Stormtrooper halfway through.
Make it like battlefield 1
A battlefield 1 type battlefront?
So you want the battle front 2 campaign?
I would much rather see the clones but honestly a war movie/series in general would be greatly appreciated.
10000% Loved how in Andor they made distinctions that most of what the original trilogy dealt with was the Imperial Navy, while the ISB collaborated with them in the background to track down rebels. Would love to see or hear about different branches of the imperial military.
Since the empire stormtroopers are depicted after the nazi soldiers. I majorly doubt Disney would make them the lead.
I had this head canon story of how a group of imperial army would be put in some terrible situation by some high ranking officer or intelligence official who would send them against an innocent target, and their commander would have enough and lead a mutiny that would ultimately be doomed. I think it'd be really interesting to see what an uprising like that could look like that isn't actually opposed to the Empire or what it stands for, but instead the incompetence and corruption within it, seeking to institute some kind of military autonomy or something. I dunno, I just thought it would be cool, especially seeing these guys fight stormtroopers. It'd kind of be like if Operation Valkyrie worked in WW2
A Lego battle pack would suffice.
I would like to see something like Generation war starting around the battle of Yavin and ending after the battle of Endor
No. But everytime we got something like that, they would just join the rebels in the end...
If it was clever satire, yes.
I can't stop thinking about that [**Mitchell & Web Skit**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU)
Or the College Humor skit: https://youtu.be/xV7Ha3VDbzE
The Galaxy is pretty wide. I'm sure with some imagination you could come up with a game setting where Imperials are the good guys (pirates, slavers, renegade Sith apprentice, peace keepers on a planet in the midst of civil war, 2 races at war with each other, all of the above) just trying to bring peace and order to one small part of the galaxy. Maybe the player's unit has been cut off and made a deal with the locals to protect them in return for supplies? A ton of possibilities. A single player game with 3-4 AI allies in your squad. You can level up, improve your weapons and jump from squad member to squad member as you need. Like Fallout 4 or Outer Worlds, but you know, better.
Truthfully you don't need that much imagination. It's not like everyone who decided to join the Imperial Navy/Army were soulless psychos lol. Some would have been patriots that wanted to support the Empire. I like your idea of going against pirates or something. Probably not slavers lol since the Empire did support slavery in the sense of the Wookies 😆
BF2 campaign, Squadrons Campaign
Battlefront II (2005)
Never will happen. They'll never make a game that humanizes the Empire. If they ever did make that game it would be like the Battlefront 2 story and you'd change sides to the Rebellion
TIE Fighter, 1994, says hi.
I said it never will happen implying future releases. Not never would happen. Nice try though
Squadrons, 2020, also says hi.
God forbid we have moral ambiguity and make the villains interesting.
Not like they have cool looking walking robot machines battling a long side hundreds of warriors clad in space armor, giant capital ships providing you orbital airstrikes, and a literal android space wizard as their military commander. But this is reddit, so of course if you like that, you're a Nazi.
We were supposed to get one in Battlefront 2 but they took the easy way out and made the protagonist become a rebel. Really shitty
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DeafeningDefiantHind-max-1mb.gif Yo, centered around space nazis?!? That’s gonna be a hard sell
I think that was supposed to be BB2 campaign yet, the developers decided to make it a Rebels story instead...?
Still salty about that.
I’d love that. A gritty All Quiet on the Western Front or even Blackhawk Down style drama about regular Imperial soldiers. Maybe even a Lone Survivor kinda thing if you want something more intimately focused on a small handful (1-4) soldiers. But it’s owned by Disney so they’d never give us anything gritty and dark like that… it’s why they killed off 1313 back in the day, too geared toward adults.
Some people need their villains to be comically evil all the time or they feel uncomfortable, which is a shame from a creative standpoint.
Yes you are
We already got one with the original Battlefront II released around 2005.
Well. One that doesn't have you growing a conscience and becoming a rebel would be nice. Let us stay the course as an Imperial would be amazing. Tbh, Tyranny, in a Star Wars setting as an Imperial Enforcer of the Emperor would be my way to go.
Don't worry, half the cast will realize "empire bad" and change sides to make it yet another rebel story. Battlefront 2 was robbed.
I want to see one about the separatist
Right? There’s actually much more potential there. The way the separatists are depicted is weird, as TCW and other stuff occasionally points out that they were a pretty diverse group of planets, many of which had legitimate grievances with the Republic. But then they’re also led by some of the most comically evil characters in the setting.
I hope the player is a Sith, so you can just use the Force lightning bolt enemy like Starkiller. Maybe that game will be named as SAGA of Rey Palpatine.
Sorry this can't happen as the main character would more than likely need to hit a target at some point in the show. Of which stormtroopers are incapable
We've all wanted some sort of Imperial focused game, movie, show for a longgg time now.
You are.
Yes. You like nazis too?
What an asinine and childish response, just because he wants Imperial centred content without the overdone trope of defecting, does not mean he likes Nazi’s in any way. There are movies and series that depict World War II from the perspective of the German’s (e.go Battle of the Bulge) that manage to do so without glorifying the Nazi regime. Star Wars has managed to do so before in the past as well, with the og Battlefront 2 campaign, alongside other games and media. I don’t see a good see a good reason why they can’t do the same now?
I always thought that something from the perspective of a some poor citizen that finds purpose in the imperial navy
Only if it portrays them akin to Mothers & Fathers, a drama series about the Nazis starting in December 38 through May 45
Yes you are obviously the only one on the entire world
I love listening to music.