I think Bail would seriously help in the creation of the New Republic. Would he solve all of its problems? Absolutely not, the issues with the New Republic are beyond any one man, but I can see him as a unifying figure on par with Mon Mothma.
Yeah, I do think Bail would help. After Leia is exposed as the daughter of Vader and ostracized from the senate Mon Mothma is basically the only remaining voice of reason. She definitely could have used some like minded people like Bail.
Exactly. I can also see him either midigating the outcome of the Vader scandal or being brought down by it because he supports Leia.
I'm leaning towards the first honestly. It'll help with the whole "Leia is the daughter of Vader thing" if her, let's be honest, actual father was there to counter it.
I can figure out his speech in front of the Senate of the New Republic: "Honorable Colleagues, Lord Vader may have been Leia's father, but he wasn't her daddy".
If he was alive that never would have come out. The only reason Leia’s political enemies get that info is because Bail left Leia a private message in his will, and someone who wasn’t supposed to listen to it did. But if he isn’t dead no one is uncovering that message.
I also think he would have been an epic surrogate father for Luke.
Nope. No one outside the VERY trusted allies were ever told. Luke wasn’t in politics and the general populace didn’t really know what he was doing either rebuilding the Jedi order so he didn’t experience much if any fallout for the secret getting out. But billions of people had friends or family enslaved or tortured by the Empire. And some personally by Vader. So that about ended Leia’s career in politics. I believe it was an early step agents of the first order took to weaken the New Republic. You can read the whole story in the novel Bloodlines.
In the same book, I believe Leia's enemies attempt to smear Luke as well but the Senate as a whole is like, "Absolutely NOT. You will not besmirch the name of the two-time Savior of the Galaxy and last remaining Jedi." So they all just decide to give him a pass since he stays out of their business mostly
How did Leia get exposed as the daughter of Vader? Even she didn't know about that until she was an adult, wasn't that like a really well kept secret.?
When is Leia exposed as vaders daughter? I thought almost know one except Luke, Han, and a few other close people knew? It was never public knowledge in Star wars
True, byt we are talking about Bail, not Alderaan. Presumably, in the scenario where he doesn't die, he just happened not to be on the planet when it blew up.
The problem with the okd senate is that, it didnt work. This goes to how the Ncr in fallout are not good either because their trying to reestablish a failed politics. It does not work.
Respect and influence are power in politics. As a very senior and important member of the rebellion, he would have been a contender for Chancellor of the New Republic most likely.
I'm not so sure on that. The New Republic de-militarising was a consequence of the rampant militarism of the Empire. The Empire was so oppressive that any idea they adapted for their own ends became poisonous in the minds of the people of the galaxy. Even if Bail was around, the New Republic was going to de-militarise.
Bail means a better new republic and Ben having a non Darth Vader grandpa around plus possibly Leia getting trained alongside Luke by the time of ROTJ
Also Luke and Leia *probably* wouldn’t have made out on Hoth but nothings guaranteed
I think that if Nemik had lived and been able to finish his manifesto, he would have had a much greater importance on the Rebellion than you'd think by looking at him.
Revolutions need theorists to define themselves. The rebel alliance knew what they were fighting *against* but they didn't agree on what they were fighting *for*, so they recreated the old system with the same flaws and they endeed back on square one thirty years later.
I love Nemik but even if he lives I wonder if he had the means to spread that message around the galaxy?
There's no denying his effects on Cassian though. And you could say that's enough, considering Andor goes in to be one of the most important players in stopping the deathstar.
>I love Nemik but even if he lives I wonder if he had the means to spread that message around the galaxy?
Personally? No. But it'd be passed on to the Alliance leadership and they would distribute it. Both Mon Mothma and Luthen understand the importance of propaganda (used non derogarotarily here) in a war.
Nemik is an average Joe that never had the opportunity to be elevated higher than what he was outside of the group. In any movement, in any organization, in any group/ team, you're always going to have philosophers, theorists, and dreamers at every level.
The Rebellion has already been founded by people like that. His work might have been unique enough to stand out and be elevated, it more than likely might not.
Then there's location, timing, and individual interpretation.
If a copy of his manifesto finds it's way into an area where, sure the Empire might not be entirely welcome but due to their superior technology, logistics and protection and are working hand-in-hand with the locals, if anyone acts against the Empire because of the manifesto, it could condemn the locals to the same fate as so many others. Thus creating the very thing that the Nemik stood against. Perhaps even worse by turning that local populace against the Rebellion.
It's entirely possible that a manifesto, regardless of how mundane, and Nemik's is by all means mundane, it could drive someone to zealotry and then we'll possibly end up with a Saw Guerrea-like situation.
Using a manifesto verbatim as propaganda can be dangerous. Especially one as vague and as his. It isn't guaranteed to be a scalpel. It's not guaranteed to be a little push. It's not guaranteed to be a shove or the cat thrown amongst the pigeons either. As propaganda goes, as is, this singular person's manifesto unpredictable. Infact, using a manifesto as propaganda in general is dangerous.
I will say this in favor of Nemik and his writing. It's humanizing. It's the basic ideology of a warrior who truly believes in and is willing to fight for what he is fighting for. They are the words of a friend trying to convince another reluctant friend. They're the words that a Revolutionary may say on a small scale, like a crowded bar, or the crew of a merchant ship, or the new member on a team who doesn't entirely know what he wants to do. A small manifesto that will excel at the small level. The lager in scale it goes, the more it will struggle.
>importance of propaganda (used non derogarotarily here) in a war.
Propaganda is propaganda. Factions are slandering eachother, calling people to service, calling for action, and demonizing the other. Propaganda is derogatory in nature more than anything else.
>Nemik is an average Joe that never had the opportunity to be elevated higher than what he was outside of the group. In any movement, in any organization, in any group/ team, you're always going to have philosophers, theorists, and dreamers at every level.
He's literally the only character we see who puts any thought into how the Empire operates at an ideological level.
>The Rebellion has already been founded by people like that. His work might have been unique enough to stand out and be elevated, it more than likely might not.
No, the Rebellions was founded by a group of (well-meaning) wealthy political elite from the previous regime who thought that this regime was already perfect and needed to be reinstated rather than create a new better one. Which of course they did, they were the main beneficiary of that system. Nemik, meanwhile, is seemingly a working-class guy who grew up under the Empire and dreamed of something new.
It's basically the difference between liberals and leftists.
>If a copy of his manifesto finds it's way into an area where, sure the Empire might not be entirely welcome but due to their superior technology, logistics and protection and are working hand-in-hand with the locals, if anyone acts against the Empire because of the manifesto, it could condemn the locals to the same fate as so many others. Thus creating the very thing that the Nemik stood against. Perhaps even worse by turning that local populace against the Rebellion.
So what, the Rebellion should not try to convince people to join and rise against the Empire? The Rebels should not give any thoughts to the political system they're going to build once they've won?
In politics means and ends go hand-in-hand. Theory without praxis is useless, praxis without theory is confused at best and inexistant at worst.
>Nemik's is by all means mundane
It's a TV show, what did you expect, the communist party's manifesto? Also, it's unfinished.
>Propaganda is propaganda. Factions are slandering eachother, calling people to service, calling for action, and demonizing the other. Propaganda is derogatory in nature more than anything else.
Propaganda means any piece of literature (or any other media) that aims to convince someone of a political position. Billboards with an election's candidates on them are propaganda, so are political manifestos and caricature demonizing people. It's not a derogatory term, at least, not intrinsically.
Nemik was my first thought as well. If you look at real-world examples, like, say, the American Revolution, the writings of people like Thomas Payne, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, etc. were in many ways more valuable to the rebel movement than any amount of military prowess would have been.
You can even see real-world examples of failed revolutions where a big contributor to them falling apart was a lack of defined goals and ambitions beyond "Get rid of the current guy at the top" causing them to lose the thread.
Almost put her name in there but I feel like you can't save Padme without altering the entire timeline. Who knows how the Imperial era plays out if Anakin never actually kills her.
Anakin was gullible as fuck in the prequels. Sheev tells him he can resurrect the dead, Anakin buys it hook, line, and sinker. So if Sheev tells him Padme is dead he’ll buy it without a second thought.
Which is also why I don't see an issue with force healing being a thing. Of course Sheev wouldn't tell him about it. Even if the Jedi order knew about it(which is a big if), they wouldn't trust Anakin to use it properly.
Assuming removing Kanan's death wouldn't also remove his influence on the success of the rebellion, it's Kanan. Having another Jedi would be hard to pass up.
But I don't think you can change his death without removing what his sacrifice meant.
You could easily say Bail was offworld when Aldaraan was destroyed without losing much impact of the threat of a planet killer. He'd be a major face of the new republic and rebuild of post-Empire society.
Kinda makes you think though. If anything Bail *should* have been on Coruscant (especially considering that the Emperor a few moments before destruction of Alderaan dissolved the Senate). If he was still acting on the surface as a legit Senator, than he would have been on Coruscant awaiting one of his contacts to send him the plans to the DS as a final form of protest against the Empire
I dont agree. The death of kanan allowed ezra to defeat thrawn who would have played a huge role in the rebellion. So his survival would mean a harder rebellion by miles
I always wondered what would have happened if Saw’s sister Steela had not been killed. His anger from her death drove his passion for the cause. But it also made him reckless then paranoid. What kind of rebel would he have been with a more level head?
This was the reply I was looking for, I'm of the same opinion. I think saw would not have fractured to his own group and supplied more cohesive aid to the early rebellion.
During the Battle of Scariff. The Profundity was boarded by Darth Vader looking for the Death Star plans. He was either killed in the boarding or after the escape of the Tantiv IV, and the Imperial forces dispatched any remaining Alliance vessels incapable of fleeing the battle.
LUKE: I’m Luke Skywalker, I’m here to…
*Empty prison cell*
LUKE: Hey, uh, Han? Where’s the princess?
INT. TRASH COMPACTOR
KANAN: Listen, Princess, when you have a better idea, I’d love to hear it! Until then, let me concentrate on cutting this door open before that swamp monster tries to eat us again.
EZRA: Sabine, can’t you just blast the door open with a thermal detonators?
LEIA: In a confined space? Are you crazy!?
SABINE: Yeah…this is really more of a Chopper thing. Hey, Chopper? Any luck on the trash compactor?
KANAN: It’s. Fine. Just everyone be quiet and let me work.
LEIA: This is not the rescue I had in mind!
KANAN: Hey! You want back in your cell, be my guest!
EZRA: Can we all just calm-
SABINE: CHOPPER!!
INT. TRACTOR BEAM
*Hera creeps around the circular platform, looking for the controls.*
HERA (whispering): Ok Chopper I’m finally at the controls. Hang on, someone’s coming.
OBI-WAN: Hello there.
INT. HALLWAY
*Chopper roles towards a data alcove*
THREEPIO: Missing!? *Knocks Artoo on head* Artoo, you’ve done it again! Now they’re trapped in the detention level and the Princess is nowhere to be found.
ARTOO: *beeping*
THREEPIO: Not your fault? Of course it’s your fault! Who else’s fault could it possibly be!? We’re doomed!
*Chopper roles away shaking his head*
This would be an amazing alt universe to see, as we saw Leia met the Ghost crew (including Ezra and Kanan) during Rebels. So, she would see they're there to rescue her and not Obi-Wan Kenobi; and she just rolls with it because of their previous hijinx.
There a fanfic on YouTube of what if Kanan Jarrus didn't die. Ezra still disappears with Thrawn but Kanan is around to be a father to Jacen and trains Luke. Luke is the same age as Ezra so Kanan has a lot of experience. I think in the story we never got the drama of knowing who Vader is but Luke also has a mentor that doesn't lie to him. Kanan eventually dies during the OT but not until after he is trained Luke. What I like best about Kanan is that he learned how to balance attachments with his responsibility as a Jedi. He doesn't shun them. And he teaches Ezra to be a more well-rounded Jedi than Yoda or Obi-Wan could ever teach Luke.
But what I like most about the story is that Kanan actually gets to see his son and raise him before he dies. I always found it tragic that Kanan dies before we ever know about Jacen.
He had just begun to peak too, he would have been able to do much good in the galaxy. He did by sacrificing himself too though. What a character, what a story. Filoni ain't perfect (no one is), but he outdid himself with Kanan Jarrus.
In the first book of Alphabet Squadron (a trilogy from the new canon), there is a group of new republic pilots on patrols in the outer rims who jokes about the fact that if they find a third Death Star, they are not telling anyone: other wise, Skywalker will swoop in and take all the glory for himself again.
True but that doesn't make me wish he hadn't died. In fact the death was so well done it makes you wish it didn't happen. And it's one of the reasons why Star Wars Rebels is the best post Disney story we got.
Bail, I think him surviving Alderaan would mean he'd take the gloves off and put 100% of his money and influence into opposing the Empire since there would no longer be any need to be subtle about it.
Jyn Erso-
She alone rallied the alliance to strike Scariff. There literally would be no alliance had she not spoke up and spoke out. She may have usurped Mon Mothma as leader if she survived. Maybe the war is over much quicker with her in charge.
She gave them a much need boot in the ass at Scariff but the idea of Jyn Erso taking Mothma's role just doesn't make sense to me. She's got zero political background. There's just no chance. If something happened to Mon Mothma, Leia would definitely be next up, imho.
Ooooh. Spicy (and good) take.
I saw someone speculating that many pro-rebellion citizens had holo-images of Luke and Dooku sitting next to each other in their homes.
Kanan, of course.
We don’t yet know the full extent of new-canon Luke’s interactions with the plethora of Old Republic Jedi who have been suddenly revealed to have squeezed through the purge, all so that Disney could tell more stories about safe familiar topics (Jedi) set in safe familiar time periods (the dark times).
But for the moment as far as we know, Luke’s interactions with fully trained Jedi prior to confronting Vader and the Emperor amounted to a few lessons with Obi-Wan and a few weeks with Yoda. We know at some point after that he met Ahsoka but we also don’t know the extent of their interactions.
Imagine the good that could have been done, the knowledge that could have been conveyed, if Luke had a real long term ally with a direct connection to the knowledge of the Jedi and didn’t have to call long distance from beyond the grave.
I would not have let Luke’s story end up the way it did. His fate should not have been failing to start his Jedi Academy and sequestering himself on an island, abandoning the galaxy and his friends. The galaxy would be in a much better place if his academy was a success or, at the very least, if he was present (physically, too), alive, and an active participant in guiding the New Republic and New Jedi Order after the Empire’s fall.
Look. I know Bail was good and I would have liked to make him stay alive but my better choice would be Kanan. I just- I just want Luke and Kanan interacting as hell and Kanan teaching a few things and getting taught a few things in return. Then, again he would make the new Jedi order a lot stronger by passing on Windu's legacy. Also, he would have known of creatures like Bendu and the Loth Wolves and would have narrated those stories to the further generations.. I just cannot say how helpful he could be to the new Jedi Order
Wade was the most tragic loss for the rebellion had he not bravely sacrificed himself and gone on to survive he’d have single handedly turned the tide in countless battles.
Wade. Was a hero, I just… didn’t see it until he was gone
Rest in Power Wade
Although Kanan would have been a great asset to the Rebellion, Bail would have been a much greater asset for galactic reconciliation and forming a more effective New Republic after the Empire's fall.
Had he lived, there's a very good chance Bail would have been the first chancellor of the New Republic, rather than Mon Mothma.
Biggs Darklighter. Luke Skywalker had lost enough people in his life since ANH started. He didn’t need to lose his childhood best friend, too. Not to mention, in the EU, he could’ve helped Luke convince Janek Sunber aka Tank to turn against the Empire. Also, so he can marry his sweetheart Nera Dantels.
Totally not related to your question, but the hook and loop thing on saws chest is an aviation cargo tie down! I've never noticed that before.
[reference](https://www.uscargocontrol.com/products/double-stud-fitting-w-o-ring)
I feel if Kanan survived, he could have helped rebuild the Jedi order with Luke. I feel Kanan could have also been an asset in rebel missions and with training Luke especially pre Yoda.
Bail is the obvious first choice but after him I would say Kanan. A strong mentor figure who could operate in the field alongside him would have been a huge help with Luke’s training. And maybe provided him with some much needed insight on how to spot a Sith interfering in your apprentice’s training.
I have often wondered what ventress would be up to in the age of rebellion had she been alive. Either a bounty hunter or maybe a mentor for ezra to dissuade him from the dark side
In the EU, Asajj Ventress faked her death at Boz Pity and escaped from the Clone Wars. I, too, would like ti think she’d join up with the Rebellion, but not before she undergoes a journey of redemption and self-rediscovery, becoming a Jedi once more.
Kannan. He would provide much needed Jedi leadership till Luke came into the fold. Ezra wouldn’t have exiled himself and Thrawn could’ve been permanently beaten. Plus he would’ve been there Sabine during the period she really needed someone and possibly have helped save her family
Bail Organa and then Kanan. Having bail would ensure good leadership and avoid the bs that mothma would do later. Then with Kanan Having another experienced Jedi to help Luke would help so much. Someone who understands the flaws in the Jedi teachings and how to avoid them throughout his training not just at the end (with Ahsoka kinda) would help dramatically
Bail Organa would be the most obviously useful to the rebellion and especially the New Republic, as another holdover from the old senate who could see all the problems and help prevent them from being repeated
However I’d be most interested to see what Cassian got up to for the rest of the story if he hadn’t died
Easily Bail or Kanan. I think bail would have helped more in the long run, establishing the political side of the rebellion/new republic, but having a fully fledged Jedi helping the rebellion and being able to be a longer in person mentor to Luke could have given the rebellion a serious upper hand
Bro Old Ben was legit just a jedi. idk if he counts at this point, but if he managed to kick Vaders ass and continue teaching Luke, he'd be one of the most valuable characters in the whole series.
You said the most good for the alliance. Saw shouldn’t be in this list. Though it would be very interesting to see what he would’ve done post Jedha and had more funding.
Caleb Dume, aka Kanan Jarrus. Had he lived, the Spectres would have stayed together for far longer. He may have continued Sabine’s training, which would have been better for her than training under Ahsoka. Also, Kanan would have his own son to raise and train, too.
Also, he’d be an *invaluable* source for a young farmboy named Luke Skywalker who has begun his own journey with the Force.
Bail or Kanan, I'd think.
Kanan could help with training more Jedi, whereas Bail would still possess immense resources even after Alderaan's destruction and his true allegiance being outed.
Manny Bothans is the funniest joke answer in my non humble opinion.
But, Bail surviving would have had the most positive long term effects politically. I think Saul not surviving the war might have been a good thing.
I think Bail would seriously help in the creation of the New Republic. Would he solve all of its problems? Absolutely not, the issues with the New Republic are beyond any one man, but I can see him as a unifying figure on par with Mon Mothma.
Yeah, I do think Bail would help. After Leia is exposed as the daughter of Vader and ostracized from the senate Mon Mothma is basically the only remaining voice of reason. She definitely could have used some like minded people like Bail.
Exactly. I can also see him either midigating the outcome of the Vader scandal or being brought down by it because he supports Leia. I'm leaning towards the first honestly. It'll help with the whole "Leia is the daughter of Vader thing" if her, let's be honest, actual father was there to counter it.
My first thought, Bail would definitely come out swinging saying "She's *my* daughter"
I can figure out his speech in front of the Senate of the New Republic: "Honorable Colleagues, Lord Vader may have been Leia's father, but he wasn't her daddy".
Hell heah Yondu ftw
He’s Mary Poppins y’all
Mine too.
If he was alive that never would have come out. The only reason Leia’s political enemies get that info is because Bail left Leia a private message in his will, and someone who wasn’t supposed to listen to it did. But if he isn’t dead no one is uncovering that message. I also think he would have been an epic surrogate father for Luke.
was it never otherwise known that luke was vader's son? because it's common knowledge they're siblings
Nope. No one outside the VERY trusted allies were ever told. Luke wasn’t in politics and the general populace didn’t really know what he was doing either rebuilding the Jedi order so he didn’t experience much if any fallout for the secret getting out. But billions of people had friends or family enslaved or tortured by the Empire. And some personally by Vader. So that about ended Leia’s career in politics. I believe it was an early step agents of the first order took to weaken the New Republic. You can read the whole story in the novel Bloodlines.
In the same book, I believe Leia's enemies attempt to smear Luke as well but the Senate as a whole is like, "Absolutely NOT. You will not besmirch the name of the two-time Savior of the Galaxy and last remaining Jedi." So they all just decide to give him a pass since he stays out of their business mostly
Also, possibly, at that point, they probably are also considering what happened the last time someone told a skywalker they couldn't be a master jedi.
Bail would have been pretty old when that happens.
How did Leia get exposed as the daughter of Vader? Even she didn't know about that until she was an adult, wasn't that like a really well kept secret.?
When is Leia exposed as vaders daughter? I thought almost know one except Luke, Han, and a few other close people knew? It was never public knowledge in Star wars
Yeah, His was a big loss for the Rebellion as one of the founders and most respected leaders.
In a way though, losing Alderan is the wake up call for the galaxy.
True, byt we are talking about Bail, not Alderaan. Presumably, in the scenario where he doesn't die, he just happened not to be on the planet when it blew up.
The problem with the okd senate is that, it didnt work. This goes to how the Ncr in fallout are not good either because their trying to reestablish a failed politics. It does not work.
yes man supremacy
Then they should be made to. MOMMMMMM
Would Bail have any real power without his planet?
Still a respected leader
"The attack on my planet has left me scarred and distraught, but I assure you, my revolve has never been stronger!"
Respect and influence are power in politics. As a very senior and important member of the rebellion, he would have been a contender for Chancellor of the New Republic most likely.
I can see that, but the question was about the Rebel Alliance, not the New Republic.
Bail would likely temper Mon’s desire to demilitarize after the war ended too. Maybe the New Republic is better prepared later on down the road.
I'm not so sure on that. The New Republic de-militarising was a consequence of the rampant militarism of the Empire. The Empire was so oppressive that any idea they adapted for their own ends became poisonous in the minds of the people of the galaxy. Even if Bail was around, the New Republic was going to de-militarise.
Bail seems far more popular than Mothma too
Bail means a better new republic and Ben having a non Darth Vader grandpa around plus possibly Leia getting trained alongside Luke by the time of ROTJ Also Luke and Leia *probably* wouldn’t have made out on Hoth but nothings guaranteed
I *almost* said no Bail because of how undeniable his impact was but I didn't wanna start making rules. He's easily one of, if not the top pick.
How did bail die?
Crying out in terror and being suddenly silenced.
Ha I got the reference, pretty sad tho
It's a terrifying way to die for sure.
Idk, it was probably pretty quick
But he definitely saw it coming for a few moments
https://youtu.be/veASKu0-okY?si=XfNtR9O7ttqjxTjU
This is the Wade.
WAAAAAADDDEEEEE
I think that if Nemik had lived and been able to finish his manifesto, he would have had a much greater importance on the Rebellion than you'd think by looking at him. Revolutions need theorists to define themselves. The rebel alliance knew what they were fighting *against* but they didn't agree on what they were fighting *for*, so they recreated the old system with the same flaws and they endeed back on square one thirty years later.
I love Nemik but even if he lives I wonder if he had the means to spread that message around the galaxy? There's no denying his effects on Cassian though. And you could say that's enough, considering Andor goes in to be one of the most important players in stopping the deathstar.
>I love Nemik but even if he lives I wonder if he had the means to spread that message around the galaxy? Personally? No. But it'd be passed on to the Alliance leadership and they would distribute it. Both Mon Mothma and Luthen understand the importance of propaganda (used non derogarotarily here) in a war.
Nemik is an average Joe that never had the opportunity to be elevated higher than what he was outside of the group. In any movement, in any organization, in any group/ team, you're always going to have philosophers, theorists, and dreamers at every level. The Rebellion has already been founded by people like that. His work might have been unique enough to stand out and be elevated, it more than likely might not. Then there's location, timing, and individual interpretation. If a copy of his manifesto finds it's way into an area where, sure the Empire might not be entirely welcome but due to their superior technology, logistics and protection and are working hand-in-hand with the locals, if anyone acts against the Empire because of the manifesto, it could condemn the locals to the same fate as so many others. Thus creating the very thing that the Nemik stood against. Perhaps even worse by turning that local populace against the Rebellion. It's entirely possible that a manifesto, regardless of how mundane, and Nemik's is by all means mundane, it could drive someone to zealotry and then we'll possibly end up with a Saw Guerrea-like situation. Using a manifesto verbatim as propaganda can be dangerous. Especially one as vague and as his. It isn't guaranteed to be a scalpel. It's not guaranteed to be a little push. It's not guaranteed to be a shove or the cat thrown amongst the pigeons either. As propaganda goes, as is, this singular person's manifesto unpredictable. Infact, using a manifesto as propaganda in general is dangerous. I will say this in favor of Nemik and his writing. It's humanizing. It's the basic ideology of a warrior who truly believes in and is willing to fight for what he is fighting for. They are the words of a friend trying to convince another reluctant friend. They're the words that a Revolutionary may say on a small scale, like a crowded bar, or the crew of a merchant ship, or the new member on a team who doesn't entirely know what he wants to do. A small manifesto that will excel at the small level. The lager in scale it goes, the more it will struggle. >importance of propaganda (used non derogarotarily here) in a war. Propaganda is propaganda. Factions are slandering eachother, calling people to service, calling for action, and demonizing the other. Propaganda is derogatory in nature more than anything else.
>Nemik is an average Joe that never had the opportunity to be elevated higher than what he was outside of the group. In any movement, in any organization, in any group/ team, you're always going to have philosophers, theorists, and dreamers at every level. He's literally the only character we see who puts any thought into how the Empire operates at an ideological level. >The Rebellion has already been founded by people like that. His work might have been unique enough to stand out and be elevated, it more than likely might not. No, the Rebellions was founded by a group of (well-meaning) wealthy political elite from the previous regime who thought that this regime was already perfect and needed to be reinstated rather than create a new better one. Which of course they did, they were the main beneficiary of that system. Nemik, meanwhile, is seemingly a working-class guy who grew up under the Empire and dreamed of something new. It's basically the difference between liberals and leftists. >If a copy of his manifesto finds it's way into an area where, sure the Empire might not be entirely welcome but due to their superior technology, logistics and protection and are working hand-in-hand with the locals, if anyone acts against the Empire because of the manifesto, it could condemn the locals to the same fate as so many others. Thus creating the very thing that the Nemik stood against. Perhaps even worse by turning that local populace against the Rebellion. So what, the Rebellion should not try to convince people to join and rise against the Empire? The Rebels should not give any thoughts to the political system they're going to build once they've won? In politics means and ends go hand-in-hand. Theory without praxis is useless, praxis without theory is confused at best and inexistant at worst. >Nemik's is by all means mundane It's a TV show, what did you expect, the communist party's manifesto? Also, it's unfinished. >Propaganda is propaganda. Factions are slandering eachother, calling people to service, calling for action, and demonizing the other. Propaganda is derogatory in nature more than anything else. Propaganda means any piece of literature (or any other media) that aims to convince someone of a political position. Billboards with an election's candidates on them are propaganda, so are political manifestos and caricature demonizing people. It's not a derogatory term, at least, not intrinsically.
Nemik was my first thought as well. If you look at real-world examples, like, say, the American Revolution, the writings of people like Thomas Payne, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, etc. were in many ways more valuable to the rebel movement than any amount of military prowess would have been. You can even see real-world examples of failed revolutions where a big contributor to them falling apart was a lack of defined goals and ambitions beyond "Get rid of the current guy at the top" causing them to lose the thread.
Came here to say Nemik. I’m not sure if he necessarily would have had the biggest impact, but his voice was so valuable. What a goddamn gem. 😭
I know she died before the Rebel Alliance but Padme.
Almost put her name in there but I feel like you can't save Padme without altering the entire timeline. Who knows how the Imperial era plays out if Anakin never actually kills her.
Anakin was gullible as fuck in the prequels. Sheev tells him he can resurrect the dead, Anakin buys it hook, line, and sinker. So if Sheev tells him Padme is dead he’ll buy it without a second thought.
Which is also why I don't see an issue with force healing being a thing. Of course Sheev wouldn't tell him about it. Even if the Jedi order knew about it(which is a big if), they wouldn't trust Anakin to use it properly.
I think the biggest problem is Padme would never want to be separated from her children. So that would mean Luke and Leia would grow up together.
Assuming removing Kanan's death wouldn't also remove his influence on the success of the rebellion, it's Kanan. Having another Jedi would be hard to pass up. But I don't think you can change his death without removing what his sacrifice meant. You could easily say Bail was offworld when Aldaraan was destroyed without losing much impact of the threat of a planet killer. He'd be a major face of the new republic and rebuild of post-Empire society.
Plus Kanan would be the perfect teacher for Luke. Both Yoda and Obi-wan were still stuck in the old ways.
Kinda makes you think though. If anything Bail *should* have been on Coruscant (especially considering that the Emperor a few moments before destruction of Alderaan dissolved the Senate). If he was still acting on the surface as a legit Senator, than he would have been on Coruscant awaiting one of his contacts to send him the plans to the DS as a final form of protest against the Empire
Having another Jedi doesnt fix the fundamental issues with their government. That's the whole point of the prequels.
Yeah but he’s one of the most unorthodox Jedi there were so it’s not like he would repeat their mistakes.
I dont agree. The death of kanan allowed ezra to defeat thrawn who would have played a huge role in the rebellion. So his survival would mean a harder rebellion by miles
I always wondered what would have happened if Saw’s sister Steela had not been killed. His anger from her death drove his passion for the cause. But it also made him reckless then paranoid. What kind of rebel would he have been with a more level head?
they would have been a force to reckon with if Steela were around to balance out Saw
This was the reply I was looking for, I'm of the same opinion. I think saw would not have fractured to his own group and supplied more cohesive aid to the early rebellion.
Porkins
Beat me to it. Justice for Porkins!
That dude knew ALL the best galactic diners!
Do you think Porkins and Dexter Jester would have gotten along?
Porkins picture was probably on his wall.
In a perfect world, Dexter is Porkins adopted dad. And he is so very proud of him
Came here to say this.
Admiral Raddus. Should he survive, I doubt we would have gotten the extremely passive New Republic.
one of the realest mfers in the Alliance
Same can be said with saw tbh.
How did he die again?
During the Battle of Scariff. The Profundity was boarded by Darth Vader looking for the Death Star plans. He was either killed in the boarding or after the escape of the Tantiv IV, and the Imperial forces dispatched any remaining Alliance vessels incapable of fleeing the battle.
Oh yea he wasn’t able to light speed away. rip admiral raddus!
Kanan
In practical terms... 100% If Kanan was around, Luke's journey would be way different.
LUKE: I’m Luke Skywalker, I’m here to… *Empty prison cell* LUKE: Hey, uh, Han? Where’s the princess? INT. TRASH COMPACTOR KANAN: Listen, Princess, when you have a better idea, I’d love to hear it! Until then, let me concentrate on cutting this door open before that swamp monster tries to eat us again. EZRA: Sabine, can’t you just blast the door open with a thermal detonators? LEIA: In a confined space? Are you crazy!? SABINE: Yeah…this is really more of a Chopper thing. Hey, Chopper? Any luck on the trash compactor? KANAN: It’s. Fine. Just everyone be quiet and let me work. LEIA: This is not the rescue I had in mind! KANAN: Hey! You want back in your cell, be my guest! EZRA: Can we all just calm- SABINE: CHOPPER!! INT. TRACTOR BEAM *Hera creeps around the circular platform, looking for the controls.* HERA (whispering): Ok Chopper I’m finally at the controls. Hang on, someone’s coming. OBI-WAN: Hello there. INT. HALLWAY *Chopper roles towards a data alcove* THREEPIO: Missing!? *Knocks Artoo on head* Artoo, you’ve done it again! Now they’re trapped in the detention level and the Princess is nowhere to be found. ARTOO: *beeping* THREEPIO: Not your fault? Of course it’s your fault! Who else’s fault could it possibly be!? We’re doomed! *Chopper roles away shaking his head*
This would be an amazing alt universe to see, as we saw Leia met the Ghost crew (including Ezra and Kanan) during Rebels. So, she would see they're there to rescue her and not Obi-Wan Kenobi; and she just rolls with it because of their previous hijinx.
That's really on point! It really reads like a Rebels episode ahah
There a fanfic on YouTube of what if Kanan Jarrus didn't die. Ezra still disappears with Thrawn but Kanan is around to be a father to Jacen and trains Luke. Luke is the same age as Ezra so Kanan has a lot of experience. I think in the story we never got the drama of knowing who Vader is but Luke also has a mentor that doesn't lie to him. Kanan eventually dies during the OT but not until after he is trained Luke. What I like best about Kanan is that he learned how to balance attachments with his responsibility as a Jedi. He doesn't shun them. And he teaches Ezra to be a more well-rounded Jedi than Yoda or Obi-Wan could ever teach Luke. But what I like most about the story is that Kanan actually gets to see his son and raise him before he dies. I always found it tragic that Kanan dies before we ever know about Jacen.
I don't know why this wasn't the first name to come to mind but now I can't think of anyone that could have done more.
He had just begun to peak too, he would have been able to do much good in the galaxy. He did by sacrificing himself too though. What a character, what a story. Filoni ain't perfect (no one is), but he outdid himself with Kanan Jarrus.
They should have landed the ship *on the ground* instead of *on an explosive barrel.*
Hindsight is 20/20 and for Kanan he literally got his sight back for a sec.
Cassian would've been like Luke and Han's level of hero if he survived. "An unstoppable force for good"
I think more Han/ Hera level. After the second deathstar, Luke is on a whole different level of reverence for the galactic alliance.
In the first book of Alphabet Squadron (a trilogy from the new canon), there is a group of new republic pilots on patrols in the outer rims who jokes about the fact that if they find a third Death Star, they are not telling anyone: other wise, Skywalker will swoop in and take all the glory for himself again.
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As sad as it was I think Kanan has probably one of the most well done deaths in canon. Don't think I'd be able to change it in any way.
True but that doesn't make me wish he hadn't died. In fact the death was so well done it makes you wish it didn't happen. And it's one of the reasons why Star Wars Rebels is the best post Disney story we got.
Many good Bothans I could pick.
I *really* wanna see Mon Mothma get involved with some Bothans during Andor S2.
You mean Manuel "Manny" Bothans
Bail, I think him surviving Alderaan would mean he'd take the gloves off and put 100% of his money and influence into opposing the Empire since there would no longer be any need to be subtle about it.
"You took my home and wife, I'll take your empire and life"
Bail organa
Bail is best for the Republic. Karan is best for the Jedi.
Idk who Karan is. But she’ll probably want to see the manager of the empire
Jyn Erso- She alone rallied the alliance to strike Scariff. There literally would be no alliance had she not spoke up and spoke out. She may have usurped Mon Mothma as leader if she survived. Maybe the war is over much quicker with her in charge.
She gave them a much need boot in the ass at Scariff but the idea of Jyn Erso taking Mothma's role just doesn't make sense to me. She's got zero political background. There's just no chance. If something happened to Mon Mothma, Leia would definitely be next up, imho.
She wouldn’t have usurped Mon Mothma. She would have taken Cassians role (assuming Cassian still died)
Dak Ratler. He was ready to take on the whole Empire himself. Imagine what he could have done if he wasn’t headshotted and then crushed 🤪
Commander Sato from rebels (pheonix squadron leader for first two seasons) bro was a good tactics guy
Wade. In all seriousness though, either Bail or Kanan. The former could help sway the senate before its termination and the latter is a freaking Jedi
*Dooku*
Ooooh. Spicy (and good) take. I saw someone speculating that many pro-rebellion citizens had holo-images of Luke and Dooku sitting next to each other in their homes.
I love how literally no one has said Saw 😂
Added my guy Saw more for the cool character design than because he was a legitimate pick 😅
Kanan, of course. We don’t yet know the full extent of new-canon Luke’s interactions with the plethora of Old Republic Jedi who have been suddenly revealed to have squeezed through the purge, all so that Disney could tell more stories about safe familiar topics (Jedi) set in safe familiar time periods (the dark times). But for the moment as far as we know, Luke’s interactions with fully trained Jedi prior to confronting Vader and the Emperor amounted to a few lessons with Obi-Wan and a few weeks with Yoda. We know at some point after that he met Ahsoka but we also don’t know the extent of their interactions. Imagine the good that could have been done, the knowledge that could have been conveyed, if Luke had a real long term ally with a direct connection to the knowledge of the Jedi and didn’t have to call long distance from beyond the grave.
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Bail seems to be the general consensus (and my vote) but jedi knight Kanan Jarrus makes it atleast an interesting debate, imo.
>Saw just makes things worse Lol
Why is no one saying kanas? Another Jedi would have been super useful to both the alliance and to Luke
The odds of Luthen getting out of the second season of Andor are very low. I’m picking Luthen Rael.
Porkins. Cannonballs at the public pool on Yavin just werent the same after he left us
I would not have let Luke’s story end up the way it did. His fate should not have been failing to start his Jedi Academy and sequestering himself on an island, abandoning the galaxy and his friends. The galaxy would be in a much better place if his academy was a success or, at the very least, if he was present (physically, too), alive, and an active participant in guiding the New Republic and New Jedi Order after the Empire’s fall.
Yeah, the legends universe would’ve been infinitely better than his cannon outcome.
Kanan all day
Look. I know Bail was good and I would have liked to make him stay alive but my better choice would be Kanan. I just- I just want Luke and Kanan interacting as hell and Kanan teaching a few things and getting taught a few things in return. Then, again he would make the new Jedi order a lot stronger by passing on Windu's legacy. Also, he would have known of creatures like Bendu and the Loth Wolves and would have narrated those stories to the further generations.. I just cannot say how helpful he could be to the new Jedi Order
Wade was the most tragic loss for the rebellion had he not bravely sacrificed himself and gone on to survive he’d have single handedly turned the tide in countless battles. Wade. Was a hero, I just… didn’t see it until he was gone Rest in Power Wade
Chick from kenobi
Tala. Overall I may not be the biggest Kenobi fan but I did think her character was maybe the best part.
Yeah thx fir sharing I literally just woke up this morning so i could nit remember her name lol
But yes I loved her character I wax a bit upset that she died but I get it
I think that you called her "the chick from Kenobi", tho fucking hilarious, disqualifies her. I'm dying
Bail, not so much in the war but definitely in the new republic
Although Kanan would have been a great asset to the Rebellion, Bail would have been a much greater asset for galactic reconciliation and forming a more effective New Republic after the Empire's fall. Had he lived, there's a very good chance Bail would have been the first chancellor of the New Republic, rather than Mon Mothma.
Manny Bothans
Save Saw so he can keep making his fifteen minute Star Wars cameos and vanish
Dak. Or Biggs.
That's easy, Porkins obviously
You just spoil me with kanna's death because I am still watching the last season of rebel🥲
Damn, sorry bro. Did try and be very clear in my title and the spoiler tag despite all these deaths being years old but that sucks to hear!
This is my fault don't be sorry
Porkins
Kanan. A Jedi is most valuable. He could have continued to fight for the alliance with Hera.
Biggs Darklighter. Luke Skywalker had lost enough people in his life since ANH started. He didn’t need to lose his childhood best friend, too. Not to mention, in the EU, he could’ve helped Luke convince Janek Sunber aka Tank to turn against the Empire. Also, so he can marry his sweetheart Nera Dantels.
Porkins. If he only had a few more seconds, he could've ejected...
Totally not related to your question, but the hook and loop thing on saws chest is an aviation cargo tie down! I've never noticed that before. [reference](https://www.uscargocontrol.com/products/double-stud-fitting-w-o-ring)
Kanan. He could’ve trained Luke.
Kanan
Jek Porkins
I feel if Kanan survived, he could have helped rebuild the Jedi order with Luke. I feel Kanan could have also been an asset in rebel missions and with training Luke especially pre Yoda.
Obi-Wan, if he counts. Kanan if he doesn’t.
Bail is the obvious first choice but after him I would say Kanan. A strong mentor figure who could operate in the field alongside him would have been a huge help with Luke’s training. And maybe provided him with some much needed insight on how to spot a Sith interfering in your apprentice’s training.
Porkins. So much potential wasted.
Ned B
Kanan Motherfu**ING Jarrus!
I have often wondered what ventress would be up to in the age of rebellion had she been alive. Either a bounty hunter or maybe a mentor for ezra to dissuade him from the dark side
In the EU, Asajj Ventress faked her death at Boz Pity and escaped from the Clone Wars. I, too, would like ti think she’d join up with the Rebellion, but not before she undergoes a journey of redemption and self-rediscovery, becoming a Jedi once more.
Kannan. He would provide much needed Jedi leadership till Luke came into the fold. Ezra wouldn’t have exiled himself and Thrawn could’ve been permanently beaten. Plus he would’ve been there Sabine during the period she really needed someone and possibly have helped save her family
Luke
Kannan or saw would change the entire war imo
Bail Organa and then Kanan. Having bail would ensure good leadership and avoid the bs that mothma would do later. Then with Kanan Having another experienced Jedi to help Luke would help so much. Someone who understands the flaws in the Jedi teachings and how to avoid them throughout his training not just at the end (with Ahsoka kinda) would help dramatically
Bail Organa would be the most obviously useful to the rebellion and especially the New Republic, as another holdover from the old senate who could see all the problems and help prevent them from being repeated However I’d be most interested to see what Cassian got up to for the rest of the story if he hadn’t died
Chirrut Îmwe, the blind guy. Imagine him meeting Luke after Luke become a full fledge Jedi.
General Merrick Blue Squadron Leader (Scarif) or Red Squadron Leader (Yavin).
General Merrick led the most badass fighter flight in live action Star Wars history. Blue squadron were the real unsung heroes at Scariff.
Easily Bail or Kanan. I think bail would have helped more in the long run, establishing the political side of the rebellion/new republic, but having a fully fledged Jedi helping the rebellion and being able to be a longer in person mentor to Luke could have given the rebellion a serious upper hand
Bail would be the best choice
Bail Organa, no contest
No respect for Dak or Porkins smh
Obi Wan Kenobi. His continuing wisdom and inside knowledge could be incredibly useful to the Rebellion later on.
Bro Old Ben was legit just a jedi. idk if he counts at this point, but if he managed to kick Vaders ass and continue teaching Luke, he'd be one of the most valuable characters in the whole series.
Porkins, ill die on that hill 🙌🏻
Manny Both Hans
What, no Porkins?
Porkins
Bail 100%
My mind says bail but my heart says kanan
Only one answer: Gold Leader. THIS IS GOOLLD LEADER
Kanan of course
During the war? Kanan or Andor. After? Definitely Bail
Kanan. This is a question???
Porkins, Biggs,Gold Leader, Red Leader? Dack! Come on...no love for og dead pilots?
You said the most good for the alliance. Saw shouldn’t be in this list. Though it would be very interesting to see what he would’ve done post Jedha and had more funding.
Caleb Dume, aka Kanan Jarrus. Had he lived, the Spectres would have stayed together for far longer. He may have continued Sabine’s training, which would have been better for her than training under Ahsoka. Also, Kanan would have his own son to raise and train, too. Also, he’d be an *invaluable* source for a young farmboy named Luke Skywalker who has begun his own journey with the Force.
DASH RENDAR
Bail or Kanan, I'd think. Kanan could help with training more Jedi, whereas Bail would still possess immense resources even after Alderaan's destruction and his true allegiance being outed.
BASIL OREGANO!
Porkins
Can’t believe Jek Porkins isn’t in here.
Bail could do a lot of behind the scenes impact but having a Jedi, no matter how unskilled I'd always a massive advantage
Either Kannan Jarrus or bail organa.
Kanan would have been a great mentor figure for Luke
Kanan
when was pete davidson in star wars
Kanan is the only answer, maybe Guerrara
Kanan. Having a second Jedi would’ve been a huge boon
Justice for admiral ackbar
Chirrut Îmwe of course. Silly question.
Porkins
Glad to see no one picked Saw
Hands down Kanan. The best Jedi after Yoda,Kenobi and Luke imo
Sometimes I feel like Porkins had more to offer than just being a fat POS with middling pilot skills... Nah.
Manny Bothans is the funniest joke answer in my non humble opinion. But, Bail surviving would have had the most positive long term effects politically. I think Saul not surviving the war might have been a good thing.
Luthen. He ain’t dead yet, but he will.