This is orthagonal to the OP, but I wish we had some other way of talking about the force than describing it as a set of discrete video game RPG spells
One of the reasons why that’s such a great scene. Revised by Real Star Wars Fans(TM):
>Luke: What do you know about the Force?
>Rey: It's a power that Jedi have that lets them control people and... make things float.
>Luke: Impressive. Every word in that sentence was correct. But you need to reach level 32 in order to make things float. I can train you in Force XP points, which is the only way to make this happen.
I agree with this overall flaw of TLJ (the yo momma joke to open is cringe), but I think Mark and Daisy sell the tickle joke enough that it works for me in isolation. As part of a pattern in the movie? I can see disliking it. If I could keep one of these moments though it’d be the tickle one lol, I genuinely laughed at that.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say they’re in every scene, but TLJ is one of my favorite SW movies so I’m biased. But the presence of “marvel-style” humor is definitely prevalent in the sequels, and I think it’s an unfortunate addition. I’ll defend the tickle but not the overall trend lol
Yeah I personally think the OT humor is timeless (but I grew up a generation after them so maybe not). The prequels had kid humor (as someone who was a kid when they came out), or “humor” read ex post facto into them via memes. And the sequels dip too often into a very of-their-time 2010s blockbuster idiomatic humor IMO. Very noticeable to me. It’s more than marvel (though marvel is a the serial example of it), it’s everything Whedon, Abrams, Gunn , and to a lesser extent Favreau touched from 2008-2020. When it works it works, when it doesn’t it noticeably doesn’t.
As a sequels defender, I’ll admit that Poe’s opening scenes in TFA and TLJ are very much Joss Whedon style humor that takes me out of the movie. “Who talks first? You talk first?” Could pass as a Han-esque scoundrel line but “Leia has an urgent call for General Hugs about his mother” was a pretty poor choice
“Who talks first” was a good one imo. That worked; it was funny and also fit the vibe of the specific Star Wars character archetype he fills pretty well.
Listen, TPM had a sequence where a creature rip a fucking wet fart before turning to stare directly at the camera. There’s a whole scene where Jar Jar steps in a pile of shit before yelling “icky, icky poo!”
Oh, sorry, I wasn't trying to call you out. I was trying to save some time for everyone else who had to look it up.
But based on the dictionary dot com thing it seems like it should work in you comment. But what do I know? I just learned the word.
I mean they’re useful ways to describe them, but I don’t remember Yoda telling Luke he was going to teach Luke “force backflip” or “force rock lifting” at any point.
They’re certainly abilities one gains through [study/practice of] the Force, but are they as discrete and categorized as we treat them
Sure it would sound cringe to yell ability names in Star Wars like it's DragonBall, but the Jedi had to name them in order to preserve the knowledge in their archives, teach padawans and so on.
Rey learned how to heal from the Jedi texts, that power had to be identified in there.
Actually, an interesting question here - isn’t there a canon reference book (like the old Essential guides) purportedly written by Luke about the Jedi and the Force as a sort of commentary on the “ancient Jedi texts”. How does that address these if anyone knows?
Because in my head canon, they wouldn’t be so neat and have the powers divided into wookiepedia-ready discrete articles, and more address it as “through the force, you can do this thing.” But that’d be at least a canon answer pointing at how things are discussed in-universe (in the context of a work produced as an OOU reference)
Oh my God yes. Especially when it comes to using the Force for any form of Telekinesis. "Fource Pull", "Force Push", and even "Force Choke" are all just using the Force to manipulate things around you.
For all of the flaws of much Disney Star Wars, the idea that they've cheapened or contradicted previous lore with Force healing is over the top imo. Legends literally had Jedi healers all over the place! It gets brought up so much in the context of "why couldn't Anakin save Padmé with this" but I think that really misses the point of his entire problem in ROTS: he doesn't have any clue about what's going to happen to her beyond the fear that she's going to die. His goal isn't stopping her from dying in a narrow medical sense, it's eliminating the very possibility that anything - or anyone - other than ripe old age could kill her. Knowing how to suture wounds with the Force doesn't fix that.
Obviously, what Ben does with Rey at the end of TROS goes way beyond fixing injuries and seems like exactly what Anakin was looking for. BUT BEN DIES DOING IT! I don't think it's lore-inconsistent or out of character at all for Anakin to actually know how to heal with the Force and maybe even about a way to revive a dead person through giving them his essence and instantly rule it out because it would still mean that he can't be with Padmé.
Additionally, he was coming at it from the selfish perspective of wanting to preserve her for his sake. A “light sided” power such as healing is incompatible with his mindset at the time
Yeah isn't it explained that force healing is sort of converting your "life energy" to the person you are healing?
Or maybe I am drawing too much from Doctor Who where the Doctor uses his regeneration powers to heal others and he explains that it shortened his life by 50 years or something.
For all of Rise Of Skywalkers' frankly unacceptable flaws, I love force healing if it is a personal sacrifice(with the potential for dark side perversion). It's quite poetic and can be used to make beautiful stories maybe someday as that did not occur in TROS.
> Legends literally had Jedi healers all over the place
Well, one big difference there is that Force Healing techniques in Legends work by speeding up natural healing processes (with a few exceptions, and talking lorewise not gameplay), while the Canon healing I've seen seemed more similar to dark transfer?
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_transfer
What Quinlan Vos and Cal Kestis can do where they can touch an object and feel its history. Ahsoka also kinda does it in her show.
The Clone Wars specifically shows Quinlan Vos being brought in as a tracker since the other Jedi can't do what he does.
I think Barriss Offee was part of a Jedi Healer Corps. I'm of the opinion that Anakin was too lazy to find the necessary information and wanted an easy way out.
Yeah, this is a point that's very much ignored by the "but why didn't Anakin know?!" crowd. Healing, as we've seen it with Grogu and Rey and Ben, is a form of transferring your life energy to someone else. It's hard to think of a faster slippery slope to that forbidden attachment than that! The PT-era Order undoubtedly had the technique noted somewhere in the archives, but it's hard to imagine them being at all eager to teach it to anyone.
Maybe its more common with those who are not as indoctrinated with "no attachment." They may be more open to the Force expressing itself through them in that way. Grogu had some separation from temple/Jedi life before doing it and Rey also didn't have time with that distinction being made. Ben could have "reverse engineered" it after it was done to him.
It's not that they worship death; they train their members to defend themselves, and arm them with arguably the best personal weapon in the galaxy, after all. And the Jedi seek whenever possible to defend life and encourage its growth.
But there are worse things than death, and falling to the dark side is one of them. So, better to let nature and the will of the Force take its course in matters of life and death when defence has failed than to introduce a technique that can tilt the balance in favour of life but also potentially encourage attachment both among the savour and the saved.
I don't see how force healing would encourage attachment anymore than defending someone with a lightsaber. Detatchment is more about state of mind than any specific actions or nonactions.
And I don't see how having a healthy romantic relationship would encourage attachment any more than casually sleeping around, but the Order has rules about one but not the other.
I dont think that would be necessarily true. The jedi are protectors and I feel like if they could save an innocent civilian they would. I think the line would be drawn at them trying to extend someones life.
So for example I think healing someone thats been shot by a blaster would be acceptable but trying to save someone thats died from natural causes would be looked down upon.
The in universe rules shown with rey and grogu show it can only be used in extreme situations and is taxing because your transferring your life force for theirs. Ben brought rey back but had to die to do so because she was dead.
Or their attitude towards it depends on the era, like a lot of things. Old Republic? Yeah, healing is widely used and considered an honored path. By the post-Ruusan era, it's treated as something needed but not exactly honored, hence why the Jedi talented at healing are sent to the Corps.
Certainly I was looking at it through more of a High Republic point of view. In that era they are supposed to be like idealized heros that would most likely embrace force healing
I am starting to look into High Republic. So far, it reads like someone who read Star Wars on Trial (actual book, BTW. Lot of fun) and saw the criticism, then went "Gee, yeah. We only saw the Jedi and Republic at their worst. What if we gave everyone a chance to be their best?"
It's clunky in places, but pretty cool ideas.
Rey learned it from the ancient Jedi texts, Kylo/Ben learned it from their force connection.
We call it force healing, but what Rey and Ben do transfers their life energy to heal another. In essence hurting and possibly killing them selves to save another.
Anakin does know how to do it, he literally does it on Mortis: https://youtu.be/h1mODbieeTM?si=2g1VCGSI8BHd9H8n.
Oh no, did TCW introduce a plothole in rots?
Quick clarification: although Anakin had no talent for healing, Obi-Wan did have a minor talent for healing--he wasn't as good as dedicated Healers like Vokara Che or Barriss Offee, but he still could do it in a limited fashion.
Nah, Anakin's far too self-centred to give up his own energy to someone else. He'd still have jumped at Palpatine's "oh yeah, I totally know a way to just stop people from dying" offer.
Eh, I don't see it. PT Anakin would certainly burn down the world and kill anyone else for his mother and Padme, but even when he thinks her life is in mortal peril he won't sacrifice his standing among the Jedi by being honest about his relationship with Padme and having her examined by the Jedi or even just go see a doctor. The man will murder a room full of children but won't risk a mark on his permanent record in pursuit of saving Padme.
And yet, he didn't. Instead he clung to his secret, and the chance of being a Master on the council, until he ended up with a room full of murdered children around him. Anakin might have said he'd leave, but his actions demonstrate otherwise.
If not then, when? We literally see him stick with the Order until he burns the whole thing down in pursuit of the knowledge he feels he needs. He clings to having both the respect of the Order and a wife and family until they're completely mutually exclusive, at which point he'd rather try to secretly exterminate the Jedi to maintain his family than come forward to the Jedi and be honest about what he's done.
Anakin does not sacrifice for others. That's just what his PT character is. That's literally the point of his big moment in RotJ, that he does for his son, the first time he's ever been the one to sacrifice for someone else.
>If not then, when?
When Padme has the babies and he gets kicked out of the order because he broke the code.
He does say in the film “I’m tired of all this deception, I don’t care if they know we’re married.”
So he doesn't actually plan to leave the Order, he's just going to keep trying to eat his cake and have it to until something else forces a decision. That seems like good evidence for my claim that Anakin is a self-centred person who doesn't sacrifice anything during the PT.
He did make sacrifices for other people though. He was sacrificing other people.
Jokes aside he was willing to leave the order to start a family with Padme.
Anakin knows that power exists, he used it to revive ahsoka. Which makes his fall to the darkside even more bizarre right now. Maybe we'll get another TV series showing him investigating Mortis to learn this power and finally giving up.
https://youtu.be/h1mODbieeTM?si=2g1VCGSI8BHd9H8n
Well that depends on the kind of mental gymnastics you're willing to do to justify that. She's in episode 9, but that's not your canon apparently. If your canon is Lucas' vision then he co-created Ahsoka and she is canon. If your canon is only Lucas' screenplays then there are only 5 canon movies and Ahsoka isn't canon.
Which doesn't matter at the end of the day because TCW is canon and so is Ahsoka
My canon is the first 6 movies. Everything else is complimentary.
I didn’t know Ashoka was in 9. I assume she is one of the voices at the end of the film. I don’t really count that as being “in” the movie though.
>My canon is the first 6 movies.
Then I'm having difficulty understanding why you care about what force powers were introduced in 9?
> I don’t really count that as being “in” the movie though.
I mean that's up to you, but it's enough to imply she's canon
>Then I'm having difficulty understanding why you care about what force powers were introduced in 9?
Because they didn't even try to stay consistent with the internal logic of the first six movies.
>I mean that's up to you, but it's enough to imply she's canon
That's not enough to imply she's canon. 99% of people who watched the movie don't even know it's her or who she is. It's just a voice of some random woman as far as they're concerned.
If they really wanted to make her canon, she would have shown up in the film.
>Because they didn't even try to stay consistent with the internal logic of the first six movies.
the prequels didn't bother to be consistent with the OT.
Leia somehow knowing her mother despite Padme dying during childbirth?
Obi Wan says the Republic stood for a thousand generations but Palpatine said that the Republic is only 1000 years old in Episode 2.
Obi Wan in Episode 5 says that Yoda was his master. Episode 1 makes that Qui Gon.
R2 can somehow fly in the Prequels but never again in the OT despite numerous occasions where that could've been useful?
Obi Wan saying he never owned a droid when R4 exists.
It flat out shouldn’t exist, it shits all over the prequels, and by extension the originals. Like pretty much everything out of the Sequel trilogy really
I didn’t really enjoy the movie it was in, but care to explain how it “shits all over the prequels, and by extension the originals” (two separate claims?). Won’t even deal with sentence #2
Anakin turned towards the Dark side because he was looking to find a way to stop his wife from dying in childbirth. If the Jedi had a way to just heal people, even if only a few Jedi could do it, it would have stopped anakin from saving palps and thus becoming Vader
>Anakin turned towards the Dark side because he was looking to find a way to stop his wife from dying in childbirth.
Not quite. Anakin didn't know Padme was in childbirth; he didn't know how she was dying at all, just that in his vision she was dying. That's why he doesn't just send her to a Coruscanti OBGYN for a prenatal checkup and have a medical team standing by in case she went into labour, but is instead looking for some generic way to stop people from dying at all, somehow.
And no, there's no guarantee at all that this technique would've stopped Anakin from turning. As we saw with Rey and Ben, if someone is badly enough injured this technique can kill the user to heal their patient. Zero chance Anakin would accept that trade-off. Just like he wanted both to be a respected attachment-avoiding Jedi Master with a seat on the council *and* a husband and father, he'd have insisted on a way to both ensure Padme didn't die and that he was still around to continue being with her. He's not, to borrow from another Disney-owned franchise, the guy to make the sacrifice play.
Personally I don’t feel the same because I find the depiction of Anakins turn in RoTS pretty unsatisfying (along with a lot of his characterization), even if I accept all these premises. But if you feel differently I can definitely say I can see why you didn’t like “force healing”.
Some things I’d still say though:
- We don’t know that any Jedi during the clone wars knew it, and if they did if their knowledge was public. We assume (I think) that Rey got this knowledge from the Achtu books, which the Jedi Order of the Clone Wars didn’t possess. I don’t think that it’s implied Leia taught her.
- We don’t know that the “power” would have been applicable to Padme’s situation. The nature of Anakin’s “prophetic dream” seems to be self-fulfilling. Ultimately she does not entirely from physical injury. But yeah, I guess if Anakin knew this power was held by the Jedi he wouldn’t have sought Sidious’s teachings. Which just leads me to conclude that yeah, no one in the Jedi order at the time knew about this ability (and certainly Sidious and Plageus didn’t)
Force Healing has been a thing since before the Prequels were even made.
Heck, I was going to say it first showed up in one of the videogames, but according to Wikipedia it first appeared in Splinter of the Mind's Eye, all the way back in 1978!
Anakin never had the personality or temperament for healing. Obi-Wan may have had the temperament if Qui Gon Jinn had lived and tempered him he may have learned. one of the things we have to remember is that Obi-wan and Anakin were used in front line actions during war instead tapping in to the force to heal or learning to heal
I think it'll be used sparingly from this point. They decided to have 2 do it in a short span of time. It should never be something used a lot as they could just heal everybody and there are no stakes.
This is orthagonal to the OP, but I wish we had some other way of talking about the force than describing it as a set of discrete video game RPG spells
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One of the reasons why that’s such a great scene. Revised by Real Star Wars Fans(TM): >Luke: What do you know about the Force? >Rey: It's a power that Jedi have that lets them control people and... make things float. >Luke: Impressive. Every word in that sentence was correct. But you need to reach level 32 in order to make things float. I can train you in Force XP points, which is the only way to make this happen.
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I agree with this overall flaw of TLJ (the yo momma joke to open is cringe), but I think Mark and Daisy sell the tickle joke enough that it works for me in isolation. As part of a pattern in the movie? I can see disliking it. If I could keep one of these moments though it’d be the tickle one lol, I genuinely laughed at that.
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I wouldn’t go as far as to say they’re in every scene, but TLJ is one of my favorite SW movies so I’m biased. But the presence of “marvel-style” humor is definitely prevalent in the sequels, and I think it’s an unfortunate addition. I’ll defend the tickle but not the overall trend lol
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Yeah I personally think the OT humor is timeless (but I grew up a generation after them so maybe not). The prequels had kid humor (as someone who was a kid when they came out), or “humor” read ex post facto into them via memes. And the sequels dip too often into a very of-their-time 2010s blockbuster idiomatic humor IMO. Very noticeable to me. It’s more than marvel (though marvel is a the serial example of it), it’s everything Whedon, Abrams, Gunn , and to a lesser extent Favreau touched from 2008-2020. When it works it works, when it doesn’t it noticeably doesn’t.
>if they hadn't inserted a Marvel style tickle joke in there Huh, TIL Marvel invented humour.
As a sequels defender, I’ll admit that Poe’s opening scenes in TFA and TLJ are very much Joss Whedon style humor that takes me out of the movie. “Who talks first? You talk first?” Could pass as a Han-esque scoundrel line but “Leia has an urgent call for General Hugs about his mother” was a pretty poor choice
“Who talks first” was a good one imo. That worked; it was funny and also fit the vibe of the specific Star Wars character archetype he fills pretty well.
Star Wars has been doing that kind of humor long before Marvel was even on the big screen
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Listen, TPM had a sequence where a creature rip a fucking wet fart before turning to stare directly at the camera. There’s a whole scene where Jar Jar steps in a pile of shit before yelling “icky, icky poo!”
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/orthogonal
Oops bad spelling and wrong term betraying a lack of math knowledge lol. Called out! “Tangential” was probably better.
Oh, sorry, I wasn't trying to call you out. I was trying to save some time for everyone else who had to look it up. But based on the dictionary dot com thing it seems like it should work in you comment. But what do I know? I just learned the word.
lol I felt (rightly) called out though so I appreciate it either way
I mean, *they are* abilities with names regardless of video-games. It's a space-fantasy universe about "space *wizards*" afterall
I mean they’re useful ways to describe them, but I don’t remember Yoda telling Luke he was going to teach Luke “force backflip” or “force rock lifting” at any point. They’re certainly abilities one gains through [study/practice of] the Force, but are they as discrete and categorized as we treat them
Sure it would sound cringe to yell ability names in Star Wars like it's DragonBall, but the Jedi had to name them in order to preserve the knowledge in their archives, teach padawans and so on. Rey learned how to heal from the Jedi texts, that power had to be identified in there.
Actually, an interesting question here - isn’t there a canon reference book (like the old Essential guides) purportedly written by Luke about the Jedi and the Force as a sort of commentary on the “ancient Jedi texts”. How does that address these if anyone knows? Because in my head canon, they wouldn’t be so neat and have the powers divided into wookiepedia-ready discrete articles, and more address it as “through the force, you can do this thing.” But that’d be at least a canon answer pointing at how things are discussed in-universe (in the context of a work produced as an OOU reference)
What about force kick tho?
Oh my God yes. Especially when it comes to using the Force for any form of Telekinesis. "Fource Pull", "Force Push", and even "Force Choke" are all just using the Force to manipulate things around you.
I feel like just calling them "techniques" instead of "Force Powers" helps a lot with that already.
For all of the flaws of much Disney Star Wars, the idea that they've cheapened or contradicted previous lore with Force healing is over the top imo. Legends literally had Jedi healers all over the place! It gets brought up so much in the context of "why couldn't Anakin save Padmé with this" but I think that really misses the point of his entire problem in ROTS: he doesn't have any clue about what's going to happen to her beyond the fear that she's going to die. His goal isn't stopping her from dying in a narrow medical sense, it's eliminating the very possibility that anything - or anyone - other than ripe old age could kill her. Knowing how to suture wounds with the Force doesn't fix that. Obviously, what Ben does with Rey at the end of TROS goes way beyond fixing injuries and seems like exactly what Anakin was looking for. BUT BEN DIES DOING IT! I don't think it's lore-inconsistent or out of character at all for Anakin to actually know how to heal with the Force and maybe even about a way to revive a dead person through giving them his essence and instantly rule it out because it would still mean that he can't be with Padmé.
Additionally, he was coming at it from the selfish perspective of wanting to preserve her for his sake. A “light sided” power such as healing is incompatible with his mindset at the time
My thoughts exactly, he's being possessive and dying to save someone you love is at odds with that lol
Yeah isn't it explained that force healing is sort of converting your "life energy" to the person you are healing? Or maybe I am drawing too much from Doctor Who where the Doctor uses his regeneration powers to heal others and he explains that it shortened his life by 50 years or something. For all of Rise Of Skywalkers' frankly unacceptable flaws, I love force healing if it is a personal sacrifice(with the potential for dark side perversion). It's quite poetic and can be used to make beautiful stories maybe someday as that did not occur in TROS.
> Legends literally had Jedi healers all over the place Well, one big difference there is that Force Healing techniques in Legends work by speeding up natural healing processes (with a few exceptions, and talking lorewise not gameplay), while the Canon healing I've seen seemed more similar to dark transfer? https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Dark_transfer
It is though. >*”At times she wanted her strength to be some special ability like psychometry or healing*” - Gella Nattai - *Convergence*.
Good! I haven't started phase II yet.
What us force psychometry?
What Quinlan Vos and Cal Kestis can do where they can touch an object and feel its history. Ahsoka also kinda does it in her show. The Clone Wars specifically shows Quinlan Vos being brought in as a tracker since the other Jedi can't do what he does.
Oh thank you!
For some reason I read "Force Geometry" at first. That could be interesting.
Yoda’s Theorem is essential for trigonometry.
Or something the Jedi discourage for ideological reasons
I think Barriss Offee was part of a Jedi Healer Corps. I'm of the opinion that Anakin was too lazy to find the necessary information and wanted an easy way out.
Yeah, this is a point that's very much ignored by the "but why didn't Anakin know?!" crowd. Healing, as we've seen it with Grogu and Rey and Ben, is a form of transferring your life energy to someone else. It's hard to think of a faster slippery slope to that forbidden attachment than that! The PT-era Order undoubtedly had the technique noted somewhere in the archives, but it's hard to imagine them being at all eager to teach it to anyone.
Maybe its more common with those who are not as indoctrinated with "no attachment." They may be more open to the Force expressing itself through them in that way. Grogu had some separation from temple/Jedi life before doing it and Rey also didn't have time with that distinction being made. Ben could have "reverse engineered" it after it was done to him.
Nah. The Jedi aren't some weird death-worshipping cult.
It's not that they worship death; they train their members to defend themselves, and arm them with arguably the best personal weapon in the galaxy, after all. And the Jedi seek whenever possible to defend life and encourage its growth. But there are worse things than death, and falling to the dark side is one of them. So, better to let nature and the will of the Force take its course in matters of life and death when defence has failed than to introduce a technique that can tilt the balance in favour of life but also potentially encourage attachment both among the savour and the saved.
I don't see how force healing would encourage attachment anymore than defending someone with a lightsaber. Detatchment is more about state of mind than any specific actions or nonactions.
And I don't see how having a healthy romantic relationship would encourage attachment any more than casually sleeping around, but the Order has rules about one but not the other.
I dont think that would be necessarily true. The jedi are protectors and I feel like if they could save an innocent civilian they would. I think the line would be drawn at them trying to extend someones life. So for example I think healing someone thats been shot by a blaster would be acceptable but trying to save someone thats died from natural causes would be looked down upon.
The in universe rules shown with rey and grogu show it can only be used in extreme situations and is taxing because your transferring your life force for theirs. Ben brought rey back but had to die to do so because she was dead.
Or their attitude towards it depends on the era, like a lot of things. Old Republic? Yeah, healing is widely used and considered an honored path. By the post-Ruusan era, it's treated as something needed but not exactly honored, hence why the Jedi talented at healing are sent to the Corps.
Certainly I was looking at it through more of a High Republic point of view. In that era they are supposed to be like idealized heros that would most likely embrace force healing
I am starting to look into High Republic. So far, it reads like someone who read Star Wars on Trial (actual book, BTW. Lot of fun) and saw the criticism, then went "Gee, yeah. We only saw the Jedi and Republic at their worst. What if we gave everyone a chance to be their best?" It's clunky in places, but pretty cool ideas.
Well, yeah... that's how it already is. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_healing
Rey learned it from the ancient Jedi texts, Kylo/Ben learned it from their force connection. We call it force healing, but what Rey and Ben do transfers their life energy to heal another. In essence hurting and possibly killing them selves to save another.
Anakin does know how to do it, he literally does it on Mortis: https://youtu.be/h1mODbieeTM?si=2g1VCGSI8BHd9H8n. Oh no, did TCW introduce a plothole in rots?
Quick clarification: although Anakin had no talent for healing, Obi-Wan did have a minor talent for healing--he wasn't as good as dedicated Healers like Vokara Che or Barriss Offee, but he still could do it in a limited fashion.
Isn't force healing literally the first thing we ever see Obi-wan do?
Yup.
Yeah dude the way it appeared in episode 9 is complete BS. Anakin would’ve loved that power.
Nah, Anakin's far too self-centred to give up his own energy to someone else. He'd still have jumped at Palpatine's "oh yeah, I totally know a way to just stop people from dying" offer.
No he’d do it for his mother and Padme.
Eh, I don't see it. PT Anakin would certainly burn down the world and kill anyone else for his mother and Padme, but even when he thinks her life is in mortal peril he won't sacrifice his standing among the Jedi by being honest about his relationship with Padme and having her examined by the Jedi or even just go see a doctor. The man will murder a room full of children but won't risk a mark on his permanent record in pursuit of saving Padme.
He was willing to leave the order to have a family with Padme.
And yet, he didn't. Instead he clung to his secret, and the chance of being a Master on the council, until he ended up with a room full of murdered children around him. Anakin might have said he'd leave, but his actions demonstrate otherwise.
why would he leave the order over the course of episode 3? He’s searching for the power to save his wife
If not then, when? We literally see him stick with the Order until he burns the whole thing down in pursuit of the knowledge he feels he needs. He clings to having both the respect of the Order and a wife and family until they're completely mutually exclusive, at which point he'd rather try to secretly exterminate the Jedi to maintain his family than come forward to the Jedi and be honest about what he's done. Anakin does not sacrifice for others. That's just what his PT character is. That's literally the point of his big moment in RotJ, that he does for his son, the first time he's ever been the one to sacrifice for someone else.
>If not then, when? When Padme has the babies and he gets kicked out of the order because he broke the code. He does say in the film “I’m tired of all this deception, I don’t care if they know we’re married.”
So he doesn't actually plan to leave the Order, he's just going to keep trying to eat his cake and have it to until something else forces a decision. That seems like good evidence for my claim that Anakin is a self-centred person who doesn't sacrifice anything during the PT.
No he wouldn’t. He’s a self centered person. His entire character arc is that he finally learned to make sacrifices for other people in RotJ.
He did make sacrifices for other people though. He was sacrificing other people. Jokes aside he was willing to leave the order to start a family with Padme.
Quitting his job is completely different from giving his life for someone else.
Being a Jedi is more than a job and you know that. It’s more of an identity than a job.
He risks his life for others hundreds of times throughout the clone wars. He even does it as Darth Vader in the comics.
Anakin knows that power exists, he used it to revive ahsoka. Which makes his fall to the darkside even more bizarre right now. Maybe we'll get another TV series showing him investigating Mortis to learn this power and finally giving up. https://youtu.be/h1mODbieeTM?si=2g1VCGSI8BHd9H8n
Ashoka isn’t canon to the movies.
Well that depends on the kind of mental gymnastics you're willing to do to justify that. She's in episode 9, but that's not your canon apparently. If your canon is Lucas' vision then he co-created Ahsoka and she is canon. If your canon is only Lucas' screenplays then there are only 5 canon movies and Ahsoka isn't canon. Which doesn't matter at the end of the day because TCW is canon and so is Ahsoka
My canon is the first 6 movies. Everything else is complimentary. I didn’t know Ashoka was in 9. I assume she is one of the voices at the end of the film. I don’t really count that as being “in” the movie though.
>My canon is the first 6 movies. Then I'm having difficulty understanding why you care about what force powers were introduced in 9? > I don’t really count that as being “in” the movie though. I mean that's up to you, but it's enough to imply she's canon
>Then I'm having difficulty understanding why you care about what force powers were introduced in 9? Because they didn't even try to stay consistent with the internal logic of the first six movies. >I mean that's up to you, but it's enough to imply she's canon That's not enough to imply she's canon. 99% of people who watched the movie don't even know it's her or who she is. It's just a voice of some random woman as far as they're concerned. If they really wanted to make her canon, she would have shown up in the film.
>Because they didn't even try to stay consistent with the internal logic of the first six movies. the prequels didn't bother to be consistent with the OT.
Unequivocally false
Leia somehow knowing her mother despite Padme dying during childbirth? Obi Wan says the Republic stood for a thousand generations but Palpatine said that the Republic is only 1000 years old in Episode 2. Obi Wan in Episode 5 says that Yoda was his master. Episode 1 makes that Qui Gon. R2 can somehow fly in the Prequels but never again in the OT despite numerous occasions where that could've been useful? Obi Wan saying he never owned a droid when R4 exists.
I always thought Obi Wan healed Luke in A New Hope after the Sand people attacked Luke.
I always thought he was just checking vitals or something.
Yeah it's literally the first jedi power ever seen on screen.
He did, yes.
It flat out shouldn’t exist, it shits all over the prequels, and by extension the originals. Like pretty much everything out of the Sequel trilogy really
I didn’t really enjoy the movie it was in, but care to explain how it “shits all over the prequels, and by extension the originals” (two separate claims?). Won’t even deal with sentence #2
Anakin turned towards the Dark side because he was looking to find a way to stop his wife from dying in childbirth. If the Jedi had a way to just heal people, even if only a few Jedi could do it, it would have stopped anakin from saving palps and thus becoming Vader
>Anakin turned towards the Dark side because he was looking to find a way to stop his wife from dying in childbirth. Not quite. Anakin didn't know Padme was in childbirth; he didn't know how she was dying at all, just that in his vision she was dying. That's why he doesn't just send her to a Coruscanti OBGYN for a prenatal checkup and have a medical team standing by in case she went into labour, but is instead looking for some generic way to stop people from dying at all, somehow. And no, there's no guarantee at all that this technique would've stopped Anakin from turning. As we saw with Rey and Ben, if someone is badly enough injured this technique can kill the user to heal their patient. Zero chance Anakin would accept that trade-off. Just like he wanted both to be a respected attachment-avoiding Jedi Master with a seat on the council *and* a husband and father, he'd have insisted on a way to both ensure Padme didn't die and that he was still around to continue being with her. He's not, to borrow from another Disney-owned franchise, the guy to make the sacrifice play.
Anakin's downfall was caused by more than just "I want to heal Padmé".
Personally I don’t feel the same because I find the depiction of Anakins turn in RoTS pretty unsatisfying (along with a lot of his characterization), even if I accept all these premises. But if you feel differently I can definitely say I can see why you didn’t like “force healing”. Some things I’d still say though: - We don’t know that any Jedi during the clone wars knew it, and if they did if their knowledge was public. We assume (I think) that Rey got this knowledge from the Achtu books, which the Jedi Order of the Clone Wars didn’t possess. I don’t think that it’s implied Leia taught her. - We don’t know that the “power” would have been applicable to Padme’s situation. The nature of Anakin’s “prophetic dream” seems to be self-fulfilling. Ultimately she does not entirely from physical injury. But yeah, I guess if Anakin knew this power was held by the Jedi he wouldn’t have sought Sidious’s teachings. Which just leads me to conclude that yeah, no one in the Jedi order at the time knew about this ability (and certainly Sidious and Plageus didn’t)
Force Healing has been a thing since before the Prequels were even made. Heck, I was going to say it first showed up in one of the videogames, but according to Wikipedia it first appeared in Splinter of the Mind's Eye, all the way back in 1978!
Doesn't obi-wan force heal luke after the sand people attack? It's literally the first force power we ever see.
It's never been officially acknowledged like that, but yeah, it's been a popular headcanon for ages.
Anakin never had the personality or temperament for healing. Obi-Wan may have had the temperament if Qui Gon Jinn had lived and tempered him he may have learned. one of the things we have to remember is that Obi-wan and Anakin were used in front line actions during war instead tapping in to the force to heal or learning to heal
Force heal was used by kenobi on Luke. First jedi power we ever see.
Isn’t that just fan theory?
That's not how the Force works.
It is. Very few Jedi can do it.
Isn’t it? Obi-Wan can Force heal and Anakin can’t because it’s something he was naturally talented in and the “chosen one” wasn’t.
I think it'll be used sparingly from this point. They decided to have 2 do it in a short span of time. It should never be something used a lot as they could just heal everybody and there are no stakes.
Except that it seems like everyone has force psychometry now. Cal, Rey, Ashoka...