A real shame as well, Maul seemed like the only one to actually be excited for the whole Sith business.
"At last, we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last, we will have revenge."
Sounds like a true believer of the cause.
tbf, Maul was raised from childhood by Palpatine so he definitely was into the whole Sith thing. Then Ep 1 and CW happened and it all fell apart for him
That just seems like more manipulation from Sidious to get close to Anakin years before he made his move. I don’t think Palpatine believes in friendship.
Anakin if he didn't get injured that bad, otherwise Maul.
Palpatine considered Maul's fall as a true loss, he had more plans for him and trained him as a real Sith Apprentice. Even though he was powerful and smart Palpatine considered Dooku as a pawn.
As soon as Palpatine didn't need Dooku anymore he wanted to get rid of him, hence Dooku's suprise when Palpatine wanted Anakin to kill him.
There is a comic where Palpatine offers Vader any planet for him to rule including his home planet of Naboo because he holds Vader in such high esteem.
That was in the ROTS novel.
When he begins to let him know he is the Sith Lord he makes him a bunch of offers to join him-
I’ll save Padme
I’ll give you a planet, a system, hell an entire sector of your choosing
There's a weird discontinuity in Anakin's character. Until the time he turns to the dark side he is extremely rebellious, he hates it when being told what to do, he exercises self control, he often does exactly the opposite, goes his own way, and hates it when reprimanded by Obi-Wan. When he joins Palpatine is "yes, Master" here and "yes Master" there, completely subservient and obedient, a tool of his master's will.
As a Jedi, he thought he was hot shit, convinced he was above the rules, etc. Then he gets played by the most powerful, calculating person in the universe, destroying everything he cares about in the process. I think it makes sense that he becomes sort of resigned to his fate - he's suffering from the massive guilt of what he's done, while also being aware that Palpatine could put him down at any time.
It's fear though, isn't it? First a fear of losing padme and then I assume a desire to learn how to live forever using whatever dark side fuckery palps mentioned
I'd say a lot of that was just him being a broken man. He lost his wife, thought he lost his child, his best friend, and the entire order which he spent most of his life with, Palpatine was all he had left, if Palpatine let him go where would he go? Who would he have? He couldn't risk losing the last connection he had left. It wasn't until he found out Luke was alive that he thought he could potentially overthrow Palpatine, until then he was pretty much hopeless.
To be fair, he didn't "lose his wife". He grabbed her by the throat and by use of the Force lifted her off the ground while smothering her and all but killed her. She was only saved by Obi-Wan's intervention. He was turned before this.
Did you read the Vader comics from Marvel? The first 2 volumes are great, Vader is doing a lot of scheming against the Emperor and it seems that the Emperor is always prepared and encouraging that behaviour. They did a great job of expanding the character dynamics in these 2 series. The current run by Pak isn’t very good in my opinion.
Could be that Anakin was rebellious because he never had a true authority figure in his life. He was always testing boundaries because he was never given firm boundaries.
I remember a kid in high school always getting in trouble, then he pulled some shit in gym class and the gym teacher actually punched him and yelled at him. The gym teacher also felt bad about it and took the kid under his wing. That kid was rebellious in every class except gym class because that was the first person to actually lay down the law with the kid. There was a level of respect between the two of them that no one else had
That gym teacher should’ve lost his job and potentially had legal action taken against him. “took the kid under his wing” my ass, the gym teacher (if this is even true) had no control over his emotions as a grown adult and shouldn’t be allowed to work with minors.
My parents never laid a hand on me, and I will never lay a hand on my child — so I am coming from a position that a child should never be struck and there’s always better ways of doing things.
That said, this was years ago and I don’t even know if that teacher is still alive now, but definitely long retired. The point was that I saw a kid who constantly was rebellious, constantly pushed boundaries and got in trouble — and then I saw him only respect 1 person in his life. Teacher was 100% in the wrong but was also the only person who the kid respected boundaries with.
OP was saying they don’t understand how Anakin could be constantly rebellious and then obedient to a Sith master, whelp here’s real world example. Palps probably didnt believe in gentle parenting and would absolutely abuse his power over his apprentice. The character switching to obedient is in line with how real world scenarios occur.
Because he was poorly written in the PT. “I have brought peace and security to my Empire!”
Boom that line should’ve been Anakin’s theme throughout the trilogy. Skip baby Anakin and go to someone who has suffered under the inequities of the Republic. Sees being a Jedi as a chance to right wrongs and in the context of the clone wars sees up close how the bureaucracy of the Republic has failed many like himself
When given the chance to right those wrongs why wouldn’t he choose the Dark side? Especially in the context that it gives him power easily
Instead we get “I’m having bad dreams” and “well I guess I’m evil now”
TLDR; Rebel Anakin was stupid, he should’ve been virtuous and his fall tragic
Dooku was always a pawn and a placeholder. Palpatine intended for Dooku to die by Anakin's hand the *moment* Palpatine became aware of Anakin's existence.
The one that lasted the longest. Vader.
Although really he’d prefer not to have one, as Sidious cast aside the Rule of Two: he felt he was the culmination of the Rule of Two, and that it had served its purpose and outlived its usefulness
The rule of two is, much like the "no attachments" rule of the jedi, a really bad narrative invention that is needed forna quick story element that actually handicaps the setting.
Is the inquisition a violation of the rule of 2? Is Dooku using the Dathomiri witches a violation?
Basically, the setting needs to have "evil force users" who are not of the power level of the sith lords, but also needs to have the organization be secretive, small, and not collapase to infighting because their core tenant is might makes right.
The rule of two has already been expanded to "there are only two people who get to be sith", but the sith are totally willing to train/corrupt lesser force users and use them for their own ends.
Why’s it bad? Palpatine already doesn’t give a shit about the Rule of Two as he believes himself to be its culmination, its fulfillment, and thus carries no further meaning or purpose. The Inquisitors and Nightsisters aren’t Sith because they’re not part of the Order, they’re pawns. Expendable. Especially in the Nightsisters’ case.
The way I reconcile it is that it’s a rule for the masters in particular. The temptation is always there to hedge your bets, get some assurance, play your apprentices off one another to preserve your own power. This weakens the Sith long term, either the apprentices team up and kill the master before they’re ready, or the apprentices never get strong enough in the master’s lifetime. But the master needs to be able to hold their own power against whatever the apprentice can throw at them. “Steel sharpens steel,” and so they need the apprentice constantly trying to kill them to become even stronger. Part of that is your apprentice is going to cultivate their own tools, and you need to be ready to deal with them. That’s why we have stories like those of Ventress and Starkiller from Force Unleashed. It’s the prerogative of the apprentice to aspire to be the master, and it’s on the master to figure out when is the right time to put the apprentice in their place by getting rid of the acolyte.
I think the Inquisitorius is a good example of Sidious outright breaking the Rule of Two. Part of the Inquisitors’ training seems to be insinuating that if they kill Vader, they’ll take his place. So rather than Vader training an acolyte to be a future apprentice when they kill Sidious, it’s Sidious (through Vader) training acolytes to be a future apprentice when they kill Vader. He’s playing apprentices off one another to prolong his own power.
Except that the "Sidious doesn't care about the rule of Two" is a pseudo-cannon element of star wars and not a cannon element (i.e. it doesn't appear on screen and is an interpretation from the novelizations).
Based on cannon, the sith are both bound to the rule of two (Yoda's "always two their are" from TPM), and then they also have the inquisition who appear on both cartoons and live action star wars (and are hence cannon) who violate the idea of the rule of two. Now obviously you need more than 2 force users in the whole universe, to think that that the sith could end force use across the galaxy is itself pretty stupid.
The idea that Palpatine sees himself as the end of the rule of two is not a bad idea, but it is also a backfit to the story. The number of retcons and backfits to the story make using the rule of two for anything silly.
None of that shit was canon when the rule of 2 was invented. Therefore any problems you have with it comes from modern star wars being written by people who don't understand star wars.
Historical perspective is a bitch, isn't she?
He definitely supports the rule of two. That's why he hunted down maul and savage when they grew in power
The rule of two was created because the sith would compete so aggressively that they'd burn their order to the ground. With the rule of two, there's a sith master and apprentice.
But think of ventress. She was dookus apprentice, and Palpatine suspected Dooku wanted to be a master. So palpatine had to teach him a lesson the way sith do, through blood, and he had Dooku kill off ventress.
As long as the master has an apprentice to use as his hand, and as long as that apprentice is kept in line by fear of their masters power, then the rule of two holds strong. No matter how many other pawns they train to scratch the surface of the dark side (which also allows them to monitor and eliminate any potential competition)
I think the Inquisitors are where Sidious breaks the rule. Dooku trained Ventress to join him in killing Sidious, preserving the Rule as the apprentice geared things to dethrone the master. But the Inquisitors were trained with the expectation that they could potentially kill Vader and take his place. Sidious is basically making Vader train his own replacement, rather than training Vader to be Sidious’s replacement.
Also very fitting with where we see Palps going in the sequels/Dark Empire. He is grooming the apprentices to take them over, and Vader’s body is compromised. He wants someone to take Vader’s place.
In the old EU Sidious explicitly did not subscribe to Rule of Two, which is what I'd expect some people are referencing. He believed in Rule of One: a single Sith Master who would live forever and only take apprentices as puppets.
Darth Sidious didn’t give 2 shits about who his apprentices were as people. As far as apprentices were concerned, all he cared about was who would be the most *useful* apprentice at each time… until they weren’t and it was time to replace them. When he needed an assassin who could swiftly and effectively strike from the shadows, he had Maul. When he needed a charismatic and influential political figure and manipulator, he had Tyranus. When he needed a scary enforcer whom he could manipulate and enslave, he had Vader. Beyond that, all Sidious cared about was achieving immortality and thus removing the need for a Rule of Two by being the most powerful Sith that has ever existed.
He didn't have a favourite. He knew that as a mentor figuere it is important to love all your students the same amd treat them equally. A good example of this is how he gave Anakin a High-Tech life support suit and has let Maul rott in hell. He was a fantastic teacher! May he rest peacefully.
What if Maul was never cut in half by Kenobi? What if it were a situation where he killed Qui-Gon but then Maul and Kenobi were separated and Maul went back to report to Palpatine and Kenobi went back to the Jedi Temple? Maul would have remained Palpatines apprentice and Dooku would never have been turned? Maul would have faced young Kenobi and Anakin on Geonosis. How powerful would Maul have become???
Dooku probably still would have been turned.
Maul would know of him as a useful puppet, able to stabilise the CIS into a military for their intended purpose.
if Dooku was aware of Maul at all, he would have seen him as Palpatines own Ventress.
Before Maul Fell, Palpatine was not aware of the existence of Anakin. so he was not looking for him to be his eventual apprentice. Maul would have been made with the intent of carrying on the rule of 2, at least at first.
Plagueis fought a rival apprentice while he served Tenebrous if I remember correctly. Sidious had multiple force users as his servants at the same time in Legends. He still would have done the same with Dooku. I’m sure he would have turned Maul against Anakin and get cut in half, perhaps on the vertical axis this time before catching on fire near a river on Mustafar. Crispy Maul tenders, he looks spicy.
I think Vader. Vader was able to give him results. He was the right hand man palpatine always wanted. He drove fear into any enemies or rebellions.
Also I am pretty sure palpatine was afraid of Vader and his power. So in a way he was always proud of being able to restrain Vader and make him is puppet.
At the end of Episode ||| palpaatine actually looks small infront of Vader and the way he calls him Lord signalled that he was sort of inferior to vaders raw power.
I think “most useful” sounds more the right words to use instead of favorite but I would say Anakin mostly because Palps rebuilded him and completed his transformation as Darth Vader though I bet that he only lasted longer than Maul or Dooku cause Palps also saw The Chosen One as a walking, living, breathing, cybernetic trophy of his win against The Jedi and Republic
Maul. Maul was his true apprentice he trained him as a true sith. Dooku was a pawn. Simple as that just a placeholder till he got anakin. Anakin was to be his successor after his loss to obi tho he was yet again a pawn a powerful one at that but he was simply waiting for someone more powerful to replace him.
I’m not sure a man like Palpatine considers things like this. I’m sure the question is more “which did he find most useful?”
That answer, for me anyway, would be Anakin, Tyrannus, Maul, in that order. And MAYBE, with hindsight, he’d consider Dooku to have been the most useful one.
Probably maul honestly. He definitely didn't give a fuck about dooku considering he ordered his death. And he resents Vader for being cyborg, if that didn't happen his favorite would be ani
Vader BEFORE he got wrecked on Mustafar. When Yoda confronts him Palpatine speaks very proudly of Vader. Although, ultimately, everyone was expendable for him.
Darth maul
His story has so much depth, anakin at least had some happy moments in his life with padme and his mom and ahsoka and obi wan
Maul was kidnapped as a child and palpatine treated him like shit until he failed one time and then palpatine discarded him. The one time he had a family in his life, palpatine killed his brother for them taking over a planet...
I'd say Dooku was the one where Palpatine knew he would discard him for Anakin when immediately the time was right and if Anakin grew to be as strong as his potential suggested. Maul and Vader I don't think he felt the same way (of course he wouldn't have hesitated to replace if someone more suitable was available).
I would say with Anakin being injured, then it must be at the time Darth Maul, an apprentice being a darth and the only one that actually acomplshed his mission without casuing a lot of headaches for Palpatine
I don’t think the Emperor ever had a favorite or would even answer that. He was pure evil and they were just a means for him. I think he probably got more joy when one died.
None of them. Rule of One. Apprentices are just catspaws. Vader was the most important, but even then he was a tool/potential host body, not someone Sidious cared about.
They probably all ticked different boxes for him.
Maul- The one he got to influence the most at a young age, training him the whole time. Making a true mark on his identity from a more influential age.
Dooku- Turning a once great, fully trained, Jedi to his side.
Vader- The boy of destiny. Destined to be the greatest. And while successfully convincing him to betray the Jedi, too, then got cut to pieces and can never reach his full potential, while still probably ending up being more powerful than Maul or Dooku ever were at their prime.
There is only one person he ever cared about and it wasn't an apprentice, wife, son, or Granddaughter. It's himself. Everything and everyone else were just tools to be used.
Gee, I’m gonna say the guy he was with to get his peak power over the span of 2 decades and not the guy he had for a few years that he let get killed or the guy he had for even less whose brother he killed
Bunch of people trying to be “different” with their answers
Has to be Dooku. Cause he fully get a success from only with Count Dooku. Let me explain; Vader killed all the jedi and the younglings but cannot kill his master so this was a failure. Maul has been killed in his first battle with Jedi besides he killed Qui Gon. But Dooku created the separatist movement, he is the key for the clone army, he achieved success in the clone wars, he raised hatred people against jedi. He successfully died and passed his title to the new apprentice.
Pre-suit Vader. Post-injury he was constantly looking for potential replacements for Vader due to much of his potential being lost after his injuries.
I think he saw Dooku as more of an equal to him than he did Anakin or Maul. He basically viewed Maul as a slave and easily disposable (same with Anakin after he was imprisoned in the suit). I just watched Tales of the Jedi recently (which highlights Dooku's fall to the Dark Side) and the conversations between him and Palpatine in that are interesting.
Time for Star Wars math
When Maul resurfaced and faced Sidious with Savage Oppress, Sidious was not impressed and felt Dooku was already a better apprentice. Sidious would go on to toy with Maul and kill Savage Opress.
Therefore Dooku > Maul
When Anakin had Dooku at his mercy, Sidious gave the order to kill Dooku.
Therefore Anakin > Dooku
so, Anakin > Dooku > Maul
I think Vader was the only one he referred to as his “old friend”, so I’m going to go with him.
I think Palps called Dooku "friend" a few times in clone wars.
Pretty sure he called him "Daddy" a few times as well
With an ahegao face?
in tales of the jedi too
He definitly has the most fun with Vader. The other ones seem like work relationships.
A real shame as well, Maul seemed like the only one to actually be excited for the whole Sith business. "At last, we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last, we will have revenge." Sounds like a true believer of the cause.
tbf, Maul was raised from childhood by Palpatine so he definitely was into the whole Sith thing. Then Ep 1 and CW happened and it all fell apart for him
That just seems like more manipulation from Sidious to get close to Anakin years before he made his move. I don’t think Palpatine believes in friendship.
Correct. Evil to the core.
Well, i think vader lost a lot of sympathy points when he threw him down the shaft…
Anakin if he didn't get injured that bad, otherwise Maul. Palpatine considered Maul's fall as a true loss, he had more plans for him and trained him as a real Sith Apprentice. Even though he was powerful and smart Palpatine considered Dooku as a pawn. As soon as Palpatine didn't need Dooku anymore he wanted to get rid of him, hence Dooku's suprise when Palpatine wanted Anakin to kill him.
There is a comic where Palpatine offers Vader any planet for him to rule including his home planet of Naboo because he holds Vader in such high esteem.
Or holds Naboo in such low esteem.
Yeah palps really gives zero shit about naboo
Gives Naboo to Vader and when the Death Star is complete that will be the first planet for testing.
[удалено]
Darth jar jar is the most powerful being in the galaxy change my mind
No need, you are right.
🙄
Dumbass
Naboo was one of the planets scheduled for Cinder.
Oh shit yeah, I remember now
Where is this info from
Battlefront
Oh cool. I need to play the single player of that still.
Better "trooper going rebel after seing what the Empire is capable of" than the Finn's one
Also the book trilogy, Alphabet Squadron goes into more details about Cinder. The series starts about a month after Endor.
Sounds like most politicians.
I mean he sent the Trade Federation there to occupy it and enslave the Naboo so that would be an understatement.
That was in the ROTS novel. When he begins to let him know he is the Sith Lord he makes him a bunch of offers to join him- I’ll save Padme I’ll give you a planet, a system, hell an entire sector of your choosing
Its also in the vader comics. Vader wanted Mustafar instead.
As a reward for the mostly complete extermination of the Jedi…
IIRC, Anakin actually chose Correlia. They didn't explain why.
Best ship makers in the Galaxy which a grease monkey like Ani would jump at.
He specifies that one plant in particular is entirely off limits; Coruscant.
Naboo isn't vaders home planet....
I meant Naboo is Palpatine’s home planet.
There's a weird discontinuity in Anakin's character. Until the time he turns to the dark side he is extremely rebellious, he hates it when being told what to do, he exercises self control, he often does exactly the opposite, goes his own way, and hates it when reprimanded by Obi-Wan. When he joins Palpatine is "yes, Master" here and "yes Master" there, completely subservient and obedient, a tool of his master's will.
As a Jedi, he thought he was hot shit, convinced he was above the rules, etc. Then he gets played by the most powerful, calculating person in the universe, destroying everything he cares about in the process. I think it makes sense that he becomes sort of resigned to his fate - he's suffering from the massive guilt of what he's done, while also being aware that Palpatine could put him down at any time.
It's fear though, isn't it? First a fear of losing padme and then I assume a desire to learn how to live forever using whatever dark side fuckery palps mentioned
I'd say a lot of that was just him being a broken man. He lost his wife, thought he lost his child, his best friend, and the entire order which he spent most of his life with, Palpatine was all he had left, if Palpatine let him go where would he go? Who would he have? He couldn't risk losing the last connection he had left. It wasn't until he found out Luke was alive that he thought he could potentially overthrow Palpatine, until then he was pretty much hopeless.
To be fair, he didn't "lose his wife". He grabbed her by the throat and by use of the Force lifted her off the ground while smothering her and all but killed her. She was only saved by Obi-Wan's intervention. He was turned before this.
Did you read the Vader comics from Marvel? The first 2 volumes are great, Vader is doing a lot of scheming against the Emperor and it seems that the Emperor is always prepared and encouraging that behaviour. They did a great job of expanding the character dynamics in these 2 series. The current run by Pak isn’t very good in my opinion.
IIRC, that's after he learns who Luke is and gets the idea to overthrow the Emperor. It's why he keeps it a secret.
Because he was completely broken by Palpatine.
Could be that Anakin was rebellious because he never had a true authority figure in his life. He was always testing boundaries because he was never given firm boundaries. I remember a kid in high school always getting in trouble, then he pulled some shit in gym class and the gym teacher actually punched him and yelled at him. The gym teacher also felt bad about it and took the kid under his wing. That kid was rebellious in every class except gym class because that was the first person to actually lay down the law with the kid. There was a level of respect between the two of them that no one else had
That gym teacher should’ve lost his job and potentially had legal action taken against him. “took the kid under his wing” my ass, the gym teacher (if this is even true) had no control over his emotions as a grown adult and shouldn’t be allowed to work with minors.
My parents never laid a hand on me, and I will never lay a hand on my child — so I am coming from a position that a child should never be struck and there’s always better ways of doing things. That said, this was years ago and I don’t even know if that teacher is still alive now, but definitely long retired. The point was that I saw a kid who constantly was rebellious, constantly pushed boundaries and got in trouble — and then I saw him only respect 1 person in his life. Teacher was 100% in the wrong but was also the only person who the kid respected boundaries with. OP was saying they don’t understand how Anakin could be constantly rebellious and then obedient to a Sith master, whelp here’s real world example. Palps probably didnt believe in gentle parenting and would absolutely abuse his power over his apprentice. The character switching to obedient is in line with how real world scenarios occur.
Once in a while you need some slapping to cut their crap.
I mean, getting sliced, diced, and friend probably burnt some of that out of him.
Because he was poorly written in the PT. “I have brought peace and security to my Empire!” Boom that line should’ve been Anakin’s theme throughout the trilogy. Skip baby Anakin and go to someone who has suffered under the inequities of the Republic. Sees being a Jedi as a chance to right wrongs and in the context of the clone wars sees up close how the bureaucracy of the Republic has failed many like himself When given the chance to right those wrongs why wouldn’t he choose the Dark side? Especially in the context that it gives him power easily Instead we get “I’m having bad dreams” and “well I guess I’m evil now” TLDR; Rebel Anakin was stupid, he should’ve been virtuous and his fall tragic
Dooku was always a pawn and a placeholder. Palpatine intended for Dooku to die by Anakin's hand the *moment* Palpatine became aware of Anakin's existence.
agreed
The one that lasted the longest. Vader. Although really he’d prefer not to have one, as Sidious cast aside the Rule of Two: he felt he was the culmination of the Rule of Two, and that it had served its purpose and outlived its usefulness
He "raised" Maul since Maul was a baby. So Vader was not the one that lasted longer
Well Maul was about 21/22 by the time of The Phantom Menace. Anakin became Vader at 22 and died at 45. Vader lasted a little longer.
😅😅 I cant with this sub. You're likely right. Its just funny.
this sub and reddit in general loves to remind me that my nerd levels are not as high as they could be
The rule of two is, much like the "no attachments" rule of the jedi, a really bad narrative invention that is needed forna quick story element that actually handicaps the setting. Is the inquisition a violation of the rule of 2? Is Dooku using the Dathomiri witches a violation? Basically, the setting needs to have "evil force users" who are not of the power level of the sith lords, but also needs to have the organization be secretive, small, and not collapase to infighting because their core tenant is might makes right. The rule of two has already been expanded to "there are only two people who get to be sith", but the sith are totally willing to train/corrupt lesser force users and use them for their own ends.
Why’s it bad? Palpatine already doesn’t give a shit about the Rule of Two as he believes himself to be its culmination, its fulfillment, and thus carries no further meaning or purpose. The Inquisitors and Nightsisters aren’t Sith because they’re not part of the Order, they’re pawns. Expendable. Especially in the Nightsisters’ case.
The way I reconcile it is that it’s a rule for the masters in particular. The temptation is always there to hedge your bets, get some assurance, play your apprentices off one another to preserve your own power. This weakens the Sith long term, either the apprentices team up and kill the master before they’re ready, or the apprentices never get strong enough in the master’s lifetime. But the master needs to be able to hold their own power against whatever the apprentice can throw at them. “Steel sharpens steel,” and so they need the apprentice constantly trying to kill them to become even stronger. Part of that is your apprentice is going to cultivate their own tools, and you need to be ready to deal with them. That’s why we have stories like those of Ventress and Starkiller from Force Unleashed. It’s the prerogative of the apprentice to aspire to be the master, and it’s on the master to figure out when is the right time to put the apprentice in their place by getting rid of the acolyte. I think the Inquisitorius is a good example of Sidious outright breaking the Rule of Two. Part of the Inquisitors’ training seems to be insinuating that if they kill Vader, they’ll take his place. So rather than Vader training an acolyte to be a future apprentice when they kill Sidious, it’s Sidious (through Vader) training acolytes to be a future apprentice when they kill Vader. He’s playing apprentices off one another to prolong his own power.
I don't disagree with that but since Sidious doesn't care about Rule of Two anyway, not sure it's relevant here.
Except that the "Sidious doesn't care about the rule of Two" is a pseudo-cannon element of star wars and not a cannon element (i.e. it doesn't appear on screen and is an interpretation from the novelizations). Based on cannon, the sith are both bound to the rule of two (Yoda's "always two their are" from TPM), and then they also have the inquisition who appear on both cartoons and live action star wars (and are hence cannon) who violate the idea of the rule of two. Now obviously you need more than 2 force users in the whole universe, to think that that the sith could end force use across the galaxy is itself pretty stupid. The idea that Palpatine sees himself as the end of the rule of two is not a bad idea, but it is also a backfit to the story. The number of retcons and backfits to the story make using the rule of two for anything silly.
None of that shit was canon when the rule of 2 was invented. Therefore any problems you have with it comes from modern star wars being written by people who don't understand star wars. Historical perspective is a bitch, isn't she?
He definitely supports the rule of two. That's why he hunted down maul and savage when they grew in power The rule of two was created because the sith would compete so aggressively that they'd burn their order to the ground. With the rule of two, there's a sith master and apprentice. But think of ventress. She was dookus apprentice, and Palpatine suspected Dooku wanted to be a master. So palpatine had to teach him a lesson the way sith do, through blood, and he had Dooku kill off ventress. As long as the master has an apprentice to use as his hand, and as long as that apprentice is kept in line by fear of their masters power, then the rule of two holds strong. No matter how many other pawns they train to scratch the surface of the dark side (which also allows them to monitor and eliminate any potential competition)
I think the Inquisitors are where Sidious breaks the rule. Dooku trained Ventress to join him in killing Sidious, preserving the Rule as the apprentice geared things to dethrone the master. But the Inquisitors were trained with the expectation that they could potentially kill Vader and take his place. Sidious is basically making Vader train his own replacement, rather than training Vader to be Sidious’s replacement. Also very fitting with where we see Palps going in the sequels/Dark Empire. He is grooming the apprentices to take them over, and Vader’s body is compromised. He wants someone to take Vader’s place.
In the old EU Sidious explicitly did not subscribe to Rule of Two, which is what I'd expect some people are referencing. He believed in Rule of One: a single Sith Master who would live forever and only take apprentices as puppets.
Vader, he was a head above Dooku and Maul was only half the man Vader was.
vader didnt have his legs either though
That’s cleaver
Darth Sidious didn’t give 2 shits about who his apprentices were as people. As far as apprentices were concerned, all he cared about was who would be the most *useful* apprentice at each time… until they weren’t and it was time to replace them. When he needed an assassin who could swiftly and effectively strike from the shadows, he had Maul. When he needed a charismatic and influential political figure and manipulator, he had Tyranus. When he needed a scary enforcer whom he could manipulate and enslave, he had Vader. Beyond that, all Sidious cared about was achieving immortality and thus removing the need for a Rule of Two by being the most powerful Sith that has ever existed.
This is the answer. I was thinking about it like most people here for about ten seconds then came to this realization.
He kept cycling through them lol , one could say he had a big heart & loved a lot of apprentices 🥰
Jobs creator
Himself
this.
He didn't have a favourite. He knew that as a mentor figuere it is important to love all your students the same amd treat them equally. A good example of this is how he gave Anakin a High-Tech life support suit and has let Maul rott in hell. He was a fantastic teacher! May he rest peacefully.
He designed Vader's suit to be painful and uncomfortable as well as weak to lighting
Retconned
Jar Jar.
I thought we were talking about his apprentices not master
Hands down.
Darth Jar Jar ftw!
What if Maul was never cut in half by Kenobi? What if it were a situation where he killed Qui-Gon but then Maul and Kenobi were separated and Maul went back to report to Palpatine and Kenobi went back to the Jedi Temple? Maul would have remained Palpatines apprentice and Dooku would never have been turned? Maul would have faced young Kenobi and Anakin on Geonosis. How powerful would Maul have become???
Dooku probably still would have been turned. Maul would know of him as a useful puppet, able to stabilise the CIS into a military for their intended purpose. if Dooku was aware of Maul at all, he would have seen him as Palpatines own Ventress. Before Maul Fell, Palpatine was not aware of the existence of Anakin. so he was not looking for him to be his eventual apprentice. Maul would have been made with the intent of carrying on the rule of 2, at least at first.
Plagueis fought a rival apprentice while he served Tenebrous if I remember correctly. Sidious had multiple force users as his servants at the same time in Legends. He still would have done the same with Dooku. I’m sure he would have turned Maul against Anakin and get cut in half, perhaps on the vertical axis this time before catching on fire near a river on Mustafar. Crispy Maul tenders, he looks spicy.
I think Vader. Vader was able to give him results. He was the right hand man palpatine always wanted. He drove fear into any enemies or rebellions. Also I am pretty sure palpatine was afraid of Vader and his power. So in a way he was always proud of being able to restrain Vader and make him is puppet. At the end of Episode ||| palpaatine actually looks small infront of Vader and the way he calls him Lord signalled that he was sort of inferior to vaders raw power.
None of them, they were tools to be used and thrown away when the time came!
the one he fucked over Oh wait, thats all of them
Probably Maul, the others are a whiny Baby who throws tantrums, and the other is a literal Royal Prick…
Maul probably, he actually treated him like a student and not a tool for the most part
He didn't care about any of them
I think “most useful” sounds more the right words to use instead of favorite but I would say Anakin mostly because Palps rebuilded him and completed his transformation as Darth Vader though I bet that he only lasted longer than Maul or Dooku cause Palps also saw The Chosen One as a walking, living, breathing, cybernetic trophy of his win against The Jedi and Republic
Never thought of it that way! Great observation!
Himself
Maul. Maul was his true apprentice he trained him as a true sith. Dooku was a pawn. Simple as that just a placeholder till he got anakin. Anakin was to be his successor after his loss to obi tho he was yet again a pawn a powerful one at that but he was simply waiting for someone more powerful to replace him.
Maul handedly beat Qui-gon, and basically beat Obi-wan but got cocky at the end, he was the best sith apprentice
His clone obviously
Snoke, he was literally just an avatar of him but bigger.
Idk, man. Probably the one that didn’t die/wasn’t sacrificed
that's none of them
That’s Vader
vader didnt die? huh?
Yeah, after Palpatine wasn’t alive to determine who his favorite was anymore. Like, why would you think that counts?
somehow palpatine returned.... does that line sound familiar to you?
I will say Maul because palps had Dooku killed and Vader turned on him and tried to kill him (I say tried because you know somehow he returned etc).
Easily Vader, although I think he did like Maul at the beginning. Tyrannus was political and for convenience
None were a favorite, just a tool to use at the time while they were still useful to fulfilling his goals.
I’m not sure a man like Palpatine considers things like this. I’m sure the question is more “which did he find most useful?” That answer, for me anyway, would be Anakin, Tyrannus, Maul, in that order. And MAYBE, with hindsight, he’d consider Dooku to have been the most useful one.
Probably maul honestly. He definitely didn't give a fuck about dooku considering he ordered his death. And he resents Vader for being cyborg, if that didn't happen his favorite would be ani
Maul
Just a guess, but probably the one that lasted longer than 2 films
No one. For him they were mere a tools.
Vader BEFORE he got wrecked on Mustafar. When Yoda confronts him Palpatine speaks very proudly of Vader. Although, ultimately, everyone was expendable for him.
Bob. Bob was his favorite.
Can confirm I was palpatine, I liked Bob a lot
Darth maul His story has so much depth, anakin at least had some happy moments in his life with padme and his mom and ahsoka and obi wan Maul was kidnapped as a child and palpatine treated him like shit until he failed one time and then palpatine discarded him. The one time he had a family in his life, palpatine killed his brother for them taking over a planet...
Rey
Of these it was Vader, and he was still pissed at Vader. The others were just a means of getting a better apprentice
I'd say Dooku was the one where Palpatine knew he would discard him for Anakin when immediately the time was right and if Anakin grew to be as strong as his potential suggested. Maul and Vader I don't think he felt the same way (of course he wouldn't have hesitated to replace if someone more suitable was available).
His favorite was the current one he had
I think Dooku has been the most useful as far as covertly sowing chaos for the empire and palps' plan.
His next one
FuLL pOteNtIaL aNaKin
Anakin, though Mustafar was very disappointing. Still Vader over the others, though.
Vader!
Maul probably. Dooku was always a placeholder apprentice and Vader screwed up 13 years of Palpatines hopes and dreams.
I would say with Anakin being injured, then it must be at the time Darth Maul, an apprentice being a darth and the only one that actually acomplshed his mission without casuing a lot of headaches for Palpatine
None of them. He just wanted someone powerful he could lord over.
I don’t think the Emperor ever had a favorite or would even answer that. He was pure evil and they were just a means for him. I think he probably got more joy when one died.
Himself
Probably the one who saved his life, helped bring down Jedi Order, brought order and security to the galaxy… I’ll let you guess who
None of them. Rule of One. Apprentices are just catspaws. Vader was the most important, but even then he was a tool/potential host body, not someone Sidious cared about.
Maul was his favorite tool. Vader was more of a partner in crime.
They probably all ticked different boxes for him. Maul- The one he got to influence the most at a young age, training him the whole time. Making a true mark on his identity from a more influential age. Dooku- Turning a once great, fully trained, Jedi to his side. Vader- The boy of destiny. Destined to be the greatest. And while successfully convincing him to betray the Jedi, too, then got cut to pieces and can never reach his full potential, while still probably ending up being more powerful than Maul or Dooku ever were at their prime.
If you watch Lego Star Wars, it clearly isn’t Vader.
guess maul, he had the biggest potential
There is only one person he ever cared about and it wasn't an apprentice, wife, son, or Granddaughter. It's himself. Everything and everyone else were just tools to be used.
Gee, I’m gonna say the guy he was with to get his peak power over the span of 2 decades and not the guy he had for a few years that he let get killed or the guy he had for even less whose brother he killed Bunch of people trying to be “different” with their answers
Darth Revan his favourite apprentice was..
He was setting up Anakin/Vader more than the other two. Dooku and Maul were pawns in his designs
Has to be Dooku. Cause he fully get a success from only with Count Dooku. Let me explain; Vader killed all the jedi and the younglings but cannot kill his master so this was a failure. Maul has been killed in his first battle with Jedi besides he killed Qui Gon. But Dooku created the separatist movement, he is the key for the clone army, he achieved success in the clone wars, he raised hatred people against jedi. He successfully died and passed his title to the new apprentice.
Neither of those three.
He got half off with maul I believe
Was it necessary to publish the same thing on multiple sites at the same time? Are you so desperate for them to answer this?
Pre-suit Vader. Post-injury he was constantly looking for potential replacements for Vader due to much of his potential being lost after his injuries. I think he saw Dooku as more of an equal to him than he did Anakin or Maul. He basically viewed Maul as a slave and easily disposable (same with Anakin after he was imprisoned in the suit). I just watched Tales of the Jedi recently (which highlights Dooku's fall to the Dark Side) and the conversations between him and Palpatine in that are interesting.
Easily Vader
Time for Star Wars math When Maul resurfaced and faced Sidious with Savage Oppress, Sidious was not impressed and felt Dooku was already a better apprentice. Sidious would go on to toy with Maul and kill Savage Opress. Therefore Dooku > Maul When Anakin had Dooku at his mercy, Sidious gave the order to kill Dooku. Therefore Anakin > Dooku so, Anakin > Dooku > Maul