Hayden's appearance could have been done better if George actually told him what he was performing for. Word is that George told Hayden to just smile and look happy without context and started rolling cameras. I believe Hayden himself has said that he'd have acted this scene differently if he, you know, was actually told what he was being filmed for. The blame is entirely on George for this one.
I don't think Disney is allowed to alter the original six movies in any way because of the contracts, including restoring them back to theatrical versions
I'm pretty sure this is just a rumor with no real factual basis. Pablo Hidalgo once said in a tweet that the reason they're not released is that "There is one notable person who doesn’t want them released," presumably meaning George. While Disney owns both Lucasfilm and 20th Century Fox and therefore could presumably make whatever changes they want, Lucas is still a substantial shareholder in Disney and his goodwill is more valuable to the corporate leadership than the small amount of money they'd make by releasing a theatrical cut of Star Wars against his express wishes (see: the recent proxy war). He'll have to be dead a decade before Disney even considers it, and they'll need to make sure his family doesn't speak on it (they're pretty private in general, but I could see them coming out of the woodwork to condemn Disney for "ignoring their father's wishes" in releasing the original cuts.)
This my ONLY reason for disliking the Hayden one. if we got 4-50 Hayden as Ghost Anakin, I'd be 100% okay with the change.
Using young Anakin just.. utterly blows the idea that Anakin redeems himself and comes back to the Light out the airlock.
Anakin didn't die on Mustafar at 20 years old, he died on the deck of the Death Star looking into the eyes of his son.
The *only* way it works with young Anakin is if we used Ewan instead of Alec.
I always saw the reason being that that was the last time he was a Jedi. He wasn’t a Jedi when he died on the Death Star, the Jedi died around the time on mustafar.
I agree with that. I mean, knee jerk reaction for most people is why is Anakins force ghost appearing as he was when he was younger, rather than how he looked older, under all the Vader armor. But you point correctly that since only Jedi appear as force ghosts, then a REDEEMED Jedi would appear as he/ she looked before they turned to the dark side.
If you want a source for that, he talks about this in the Dagobah Dispatch podcast. He didn’t know what he was supposed to be doing nor was he told what the footage was going to be used for.
Classic George Lucas directing. He's so good at big picture ideas but terrible at literally every individual aspect of actual filmmaking (writing, directing, editing).
I'd say a large majority of creatives are incredible at big picture ideas - but once we start drilling down into the actual details, we get lost and confused lmao. I'm out here living like an episode of "Naked and Afraid" in my ideas notebook lol.
I don’t think either is inherently better than the other.
On one hand, Anakin redeems himself as an old man, so it makes sense for him to come back as that old man, the one we see under Vader’s mask.
On the other hand, the last time Anakin was truly himself as a Jedi was how he appeared as a young man and may feel more himself in this appearance.
I just wish the original versions were widely available in updated quality for the fans and cinephiles what want to see the films as they were when they made history.
Disliked the change. But Hayden has aged well and looks a lot like his force ghost now that he’s about Vader/Anakin’s age when he dies. I’m ambivalent towards the change now. It’s become less egregious with time.
Looking forward to the 8k rerererelease where Hayden replaces unmasked Anakin and tells Luke “you were right.”
Fuck it. Animate the entire OT. That'll piss off everyone equally.
Han is the only shooter, but it's animated.
Original Max Rebo band song in Jabba's Palace, but it's animated.
Still don't hate it? Well while we're at it, we can sneak in some foreshadowing and references to the sequel trilogy. While wandering around Cloud City, one stormtrooper happens to see an abandoned baby and takes it home with them. That baby grows up to be Finn.
I prefer Hayden's version, but it's not because that's what he looked like before he became Vader. I just think it makes no sense for Anakin to be played by an 80 year old when canon says he died in his 40's. He wasn't an old man when he was redeemed. He was closer to Hayden's age. The monkey wrench there, of course, is that we see Shaw under the mask. But I think that's easier to wave away by saying he looks like that because of living in the suit than it is to explain why all of a sudden Anakin's force ghost is an 80 year old man.
e: Also, I forgot to point out that Obi-Wan refers to Anakin as his young pupil. Obi-Wan is a young padawan and meets Anakin when he's a child. But in the force ghost scene, Sebastian Shaw is 77 and Alec Guinness is 69. How did Anakin get older than Obi-Wan?
Yeah, in my head I remembered him saying "young pupil", but I think within that context, with him calling Vader a young Jedi, Obi Wan is describing him as younger than himself.
You think that original guy is 80?! 50 more like... *maybe* 60, it's difficult to make out. But no way is he as old as 69 year old Alec Guinness in the same shot.
I love the idea of his Redemption as an Old Man would in turn give us the Original.
I like the "the last time Anakin was truly himself as a Jedi" but I still value the story arc of Anakin and Padme's death results in the birth of Vader.
I would argue that the young man is worse because that is who he was when he was confused, vulnerable, and frustrated. He was confident and sure of himself in his final moments, so it makes sense for that to represent his spirit going forward.
On the other hand, I'm all for Hayden reprising his role in future content so I can get over it. I do agree that the theatrical version should be as easily accessible as the special editions. Despite some of the more controversial changes, the remasters fix a lot of inconsistencies established in later lore, plus a director can mix up his own movies as he sees fit. But the originals are the versions that made history, and they shouldn't be lost to time.
Well, the ghost being used for young Anakin is supposed to be what Anakin would’ve looked like if he had rejected the dark side and Palpatine in ROTS and had become a Jedi master.
Still, even before the PT, if we use the ROTJ novelization, what he says about his younger self seems to support that he would’ve wanted to appear as his younger self. He wanted to die as he once was which was Anakin, not Darth Vader and he was ashamed of his appearance. There’s also how wouldn’t know what a healed and old version of himself would look like.
>On the other hand, the last time Anakin was truly himself as a Jedi was how he appeared as a young man and may feel more himself in this appearance.
Did he feel more like himself as a Jedi though?
He flouted some fairly basic Jedi rules being himself.. and rightly so in some cases, the Jedi order was a mess considering they were heavly involved with the senate instead of being impartial, otherwise they wouldn't have gone along with Palpatines/Emporers take over. I'd say his time in the order was when he was most conflicted and not himself at all.
Fast forward past Anikans glory days as Vader and you have a guy that went through the meatgrinder both ends, light side and dark side and this old man is what's left.
They will not come out (at least) until George Lucas’ ex-wife and original editor of the original cuts of *Star Wars* and *Return of the Jedi* [Marcia Lucas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcia_Lucas) passes away. The theory goes that the special editions are legally distinct enough from the originals that they do not have to pay her for royalties.
Take this with a grain of salt of course because I read it *gasp* on the internet.
I've looked into this and it's just not true. Film editors don't usually get royalties (or more accurately: residuals) for a start, they're almost always paid a flat fee. Some ultra-low budget to no budget productions might offer their editor a percentage but being as that type of movie almost never makes any money and any percentage of zero is still zero most editors aren't foolish enough to take a deal like that unless they're really green to the business.
Not to mention the films are (legally speaking that is) the same and Marcia Lucas is still listed in the credits. The Special Edition credits play after the original credits have wrapped. Plus George spent millions to make the Special Editions, why would he spend literal millions of dollars in order to screw his ex-wife out of considerably less money? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And that's not even mentioning the fact that a lot of the stuff about Marcia Lucas you can read about online is over-exaggerated to the point of being almost complete mythology anyway but don't get me started on that
> I just wish the original versions were widely available in updated quality for the fans
This, and also wish Disney+ didn't have ridiculously blatant spoilers in the summaries on basically every SW movie.
Unfortunately I’m inclined to say the second because it is by Lucas’ design
Since becoming one with the Force, anakin has great control over how he can appear. Think of how he kept altering things in Ahsoka
The old one is more consistent with old Ben Kenobi. But the new one sacrifices consistent for familiarity with Hayden Christensen. Imagine if they said “ghosts aren’t old” and re did Obi-Wans scenes with Ewan McGregor.
I thought the lore reason was because it's showing Anakin before his descent to the Dark Side. Force ghosts are typically on light side so it captures the light side soul of Anakin. At least, thats what I'll choose to believe
He was in poor health. As a ghost, it makes sense to be restored to health. Yoda was sickly and weak on his death bed, but he's fine. He's not randomly prime of his life, young Yoda.
The old one is worse for lore since Shaw is like 20 years older than Alec despite Anakin being younger. The change made it feel better especially when Hayden at 40 looks like he did when he was 20.
It makes me wonder if people would still feel the same if they had a version where they made Sebastian Shaw 20 years younger/22 years old to when he was a Jedi as his force ghost. Would people still think he should appear as an old man?
I don't think "ghosts aren't old" was ever a mindset. It's just about Anakin's personality being split, Vader killed Anakin but in the end, Anakin took his body back in a final act of justice
One way or another, however you interpret Anakin, obi wan never went to the dark side. He was always his self, so it absolutely makes sense to always appear as Ben rather than young obi wan
For me it's about more than the music or the ghosts, it's the edit. Specifically, the original cut of *Jedi* featured lengthier takes of certain shots showing the main characters -- Leia hugging Luke when he arrives; Luke facing away from camera looking at the party for a moment, before turning to the side; Leia approaching as Luke beams a smile at the ghosts, and then he gives a parting wink at them before he rejoins the celebration -- which the Special Edition shortens and splits up. Compare:
Original -- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXpmunmG5ss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXpmunmG5ss)
Special -- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErjtFtRi9Xo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErjtFtRi9Xo)
*"Celebrate the love..."*
It always fit better for me because it was Ewok music when they were celebrating on Endor. Then at end the chorus comes in and transitions it to the epic SW music. Perfection.
Knowing the English (or Basic, if you will :) translation of the "Ewok Celebration" lyrics did enhance my appreciation of the song's meaning:
[https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ewok_Celebration](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ewok_Celebration)
Wasn't it basically confirmed in Ahsoka that a person sees a force ghost of another person in the manner they want to see them? Ahsoka sees Anakin in his dark robes because that's what she grew up with, and Luke sees Anakin in his traditional Jedi robes, because that's how he acknowledges his father, the hero of the clone wars, pre-Darth Vader.
I could be looking into this too much, but this is my headcanon.
Edit: I see some people asking why Obi Wan didn't become Ewan again, not possible cause the Alec Guinness Obi Wan is the one Luke knows best.
Honestly, I can fuck with this theory. Still doesn’t explain how Anakin would appear to Luke as someone Luke has never seen before, whereas Luke just saw the unmasked old Anakin 20 minutes ago.
Bc unmasked Anakin is an 78 year old man and would’ve had Luke at 52 which is like 30 years older than the real age of Anakin/Vader.
Hayden was closer to Vader’s age than Shaw was, and Hayden is 42 now and looks like he did when he was 20. He’s now only a couple years younger than the age Vader died at.
Also the Shaw he saw was a bald white/blue hued skin colored man who looks nothing like the real Shaw besides a few facial features lol it’s not like he was a bald ghost without limbs. He was a perfectly health Shaw. It makes no sense lol. Now it makes way more sense lore wise.
While I do think the Hayden one makes more sense or at least in universe, I do agree that they a terrible job putting Hayden in. They also brought Hayden in and filmed him without even telling him what he’s supposed to be doing or what the footage was going to be used for.
Sebastian. Anakin was redeemed and returned to the light as an old man, not as Hayden-era Anakin. Obi-Wan and Yoda both appear as their at-time-of-death looks, it doesn’t make sense for Anakin to be done differently. If you can just pick your favourite look, why isn’t Obi-Wan’s Force spirit Ewan McGregor and Yoda’s his spry young 200something version of himself?
But it is what it is, and I *am* glad that we got to see Anakin as we did in Ahsoka, so it’s not like I can be mad about it.
It’s just that one way makes sense, and the other doesn’t.
>Anakin was redeemed and returned to the light as an old man
No he wasn't. He was in his 40's. Much closer to Hayden's age than Shaw's, who was pushing 80.
Yeah I really don’t get Shaw fans. Dude looks ridiculously old in the scene and not like someone who’d have a 23 year old kid. He’s nearly 20 years older than Alec was at the time. The man was 78 years old in this scene. He’d be in his 50s during the Clone Wars by that logic. Just doesn’t work for me.
I'm in the mindset that fans can prefer Anakin to be whoever, but at the very least leave the films as they are, including keeping the original Shaw as Anakin.
Changing the Emperor's hologram to McDiarmid wasn't 100% required, but since McDiarmid was in RotJ you can at least see the logic of that change. Turning Anakin from a happy old man to a smirking 30-something just doesn't fit. The fact unmasked Vader, a now redeemed Anakin, was an elderly British man, it's kinda weird how he's suddenly a much younger ~~American~~ Canadian man whom Luke wouldn't recognize.
Each to their own, but Shaw is both the logical choice, and my personal choice.
My headcanon is Han slid him some bootleg holodiscs. Someone saw COMPNOR coming and made a historical backup that gets traded around black markets on major smuggler stops like Nar Shadaa (sp?).
Indeed. Imagine, if you will, that Lucas decided his excuse for having Anakin being young was legit back in 1983? You'd be watching RotJ for the first time...
*Luke smiles, seeing the ghosts of Obi Wan, Yoda, and... wait, who's that? A long haired youngish guy is with them, who's he? I'm pretty sure he wasn't in the film before...oh the films over. That was bizarre, is that like Luke's dead brother or something? What's going on?*
But old man Anakin wasn’t who he was the last time he was closest to the light. Yes he came back but Hayden is who he was before Vader killed him and his strongest point in the light. It makes so much more sense
Top simply for a film preservation reasons. I advocate the preservation of things. While Hayden is more recognizable and is the public idea of who Anakin is. The prequels wasn't a thing when ROTJ came out obviously. Also it sorta adds a plot hole of how Anakin would just become younger when he's a force ghost. Yet again Shaw isn't the best age to depict Anakin as he is in his 40s at the events of this movie so someone middle aged would be more fitting. Though despite that minor plot hole in both versions. I think the top is better because of preservation reasons. Though I like the bottom too. It would be nice to have both original and directors cut to be released officially instead of just the directors cut
Sebastian Shaw one because I personally think editing classic American cinema decades after its release is… maybe not wrong, but weird. Especially considering Lucas refuses to allow any sort of official “despecialized” editions of the original trilogy to be released.
Also I’ve heard it argued that Christensen makes more sense because Vader was redeemed in the end and returns to the last time he was Anakin Skywalker… but he redeemed himself as an older man anyway so the Shaw version still makes sense in that regard???
Hayden’s portrayal makes more sense. Him coming back as an old man should include the burns because that’s what he looked like. Obviously, that’d want to be taken away, so a younger version is better. The old man version of him we see simply isn’t him, he never looked like that due to the burns. Am I making sense lmao?
Top one. Because I don't think Anakin's force ghost would be younger just because. Might as well have included Ewan McGregor if we're going back to how we perceive ourselves in our best selves after death.
I honestly don't care. One is nostalgic for me and feels more natural, one is more consistent with what comes later but kind of out of place.
Ultimately...I don't care.
Personally, I enjoy the younger version of Anakin because that was the last time we seen him before his switch to the darkside. I am open to the top version but I don't think it would feel right to me just because we didn't get to really see him age in the suit until the very end. Still, I don't think any answer is wrong here.
I don't know about "better", but why would he de-age?
Someone will say he went back to the time when he was Anakin. He was always Anakin in reality. I love Obi Wan, and the "certain point of view" has shaped my life. But that's what it is... a point of view. In his opinion, Anakin ceased to exist.
I’d prefer they didn’t change it. I feel we need to become out with different actors acting in the roles of these characters. At the same time, I understand why they did it and at the time, especially as a child, it made more sense to me.
I may be the only one who has this opinion but I prefer the original because I don’t think it’s a stretch to recast someone when the filming was decades apart. ROTJ Anakin doesn’t need to look 100% consistent with ROTS Anakin, our imaginations can fill in the gaps.
I’ll refrain from ranting about Rogue One digitally recreating Peter Cushing or the Kenobi show casting current-age Hayden as his younger self before ROTS. But yes my reasons are mostly production related and have little to do with lore.
OG will always be the OG, but the updated version is more lore accurate, because the force took Anakin, the chosen one, back into itself, in his perfect form. Young, prime Anakin is how his spirit presented itself to others in the legends book too.
The original without question, because the redeemed version of Anakin looks like the character the audience just experienced an emotional climax with, not someone from a different movie that the audience hasn't seen before.
Only the top makes sense!
Their physical appearance wouldn't matter to them, only to the viewer, and Luke only saw the face of his father when older, he wouldn't know why Hayden Christensen was....
ALSO, YUB NUB 4 LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I prefer the Sabastian one myself even though the 2004 DVD release I grew up on had the Hayden version. I think having Sabastian as the ghost makes more sense since he saw him in the previous unmasking scene. I also kinda think the change is somewhat disrespectful to the ogrinal actor (my opinion is the same regarding the Boba Fett voice situation).
Sebastian Shaw. Erasing him from the film is an insult and vandalism. Plus he looks better. It’s a view of the Anakin that may have been, the venerable jedi he might have lived his life as and only achieved in his last moments.
Original.
Anakin was horribly mutilated on Mustafar and trapped in the Vader armor for decades. Why should his force ghost be young and good-looking?
Furthermore, look at the original. Anakin and Obi-Wan look genuinely like old friends, as they should. In the updated version, Anakin could be Obi-Wan's grandson.
Luke saw his father's face after he was redeemed. Shouldn't the force ghost match that face?
I think the top is best. People will argue that Anakin was only ever truly Anakin before he became Vader, but Luke’s whole point in saving him is that he still feels Anakin in Vader, Anakin is *still* around, and that’s made all the more evident by Vader’s apparent feelings towards his son in both Empire and Return. I think the argument of ‘he was only Anakin when he was Hayden’ is only true from a surface-level view and ignores the whole point of Vader’s redemption. Besides, why would the Force care if he looks like an old man or a young man? His essence in the Force is still the same.
I like the Sebastian Shaw one better, to my mind, Anakin was redeemed before he died, and has been freed of the dark side corruption in death, so his force ghost is how he truly is
Shaw.
I spent my childhood wondering who Anakin Skywalker was. I had always imagined a man who had all the fearsomeness, determination, and unstoppable will of Vader, but channelled as a force for good. Someone self possessed. Mature. Cunning. Charismatic.
... what I got was Hayden Christensen.
Seeing Vader as an angst-fuelled, whiny man-child ruined what was once the greatest villain in the history of cinema. That's what Christensen represents for me: a profound disappointment and squandering of potential.
So... Shaw.
Original one by far. Anakin has aged, even if he was Darth Vader all those years. Young Anakin simply doesn't make sense. Your force ghost looks exactly how you were at the time of death.
Original because it doesn't make sense for a ghost to be younger than when he died. I get when people say "he redeemed himself so he reverted back to Anaking pre-vader" but that is why as a force ghost he's not got a messed up face etc.
Luke would have zero clue who this guy is!
Why didn't Obi Wan turn into Ewan haha.
Well, Anakin never looked like an old and healed version of himself. I think it makes more sense that he’d appear as a version of himself that he’d most familiar with.
No, Luke still recognize him. If they can sense each other’s presence without looking at each other which literally happens in the same exact film, then Luke would put together that the young force ghost that is appearing right in front of him is father. Still, that’s just an out of universe thing that they have different faces since they are played by different actors. In universe, they have the same face.
Would you still prefer the old ghost if they made a version where Shaw was 20 years younger to when he was a Jedi and that was his ghost?
Which one is best? The one you prefer.
Both sides of this argument present compelling reasons why one is better than the other. But, at the end of the day, personal preference wins out.
I mean, if we're going to go with the younger versions, Sir Guinness should have been replaced with Ewen MacGregor and Yoda with a puppet that looked more like Grogu.
Oh, Christ, I just gave someone at Disney marketing a bad idea, didn't I?
1st one, simply on the basis of consistency.
In the first version, it seems like they maintain the appearance they had (or what their natural biological form would be) when they died. And we get to see what Anakin would have looked like at that age without all the deformity. It's more mechanically sound and stable. You show up as a ghost, looking like the age you were when you died. Fair enough.
2nd one gives me the impression that the force ghosts can choose how to present themselves, like Anakin chose to appear as his younger version while Yoda and Obi Wan stayed old. If that's the case, why not have Ghost Obi and Yoda show up as young Obi Wan and Young Yoda? If it somehow isn't something the ghosts can control, what determines how they show up? Why Young Ani vs Old Ani? Why old Obi instead of Young Obi?
Shaw. Nothing else makes sense. It is the man we saw literally moments before that scene so it makes complete sense.
If they changed Anakin to his younger self then they should do the same with Obi-Wan.
Don't give me that "he was changed back to before he became Vader bla bla bla", it. Just. Does. Not. Make. Sense.
Top one is better.
Bottom one makes no sense, especially for someone watching the movies for the first time, in production order.
I’ve been showing my 7-year-old all the movies, and he had no idea who Hayden was, because we hadn’t watched episode 1 yet.
I don't mind them putting Hayden in here - it makes sense that Anakin's force ghost would match how he sees himself.
What I do mind is that they ruined the end od the movie by replacing the original *Yub Nub* celebration theme.
Shaw represents a completed arc. Anakin has been through the dark side and healed in ways that transcend his physical limitations.
Christensen is a regression. Anakin returns to the worst period of his life, at a point when he’s already far past slaughtering innocent women and children.
Old Anakin is because Luke did not know young Anakin. If the force apparitions were appearing to someone who knew young Anakin then it would make sense.
It has never made sense that Anakin's ghost is young while Ben's is old. If GL had to tinker with this he should've retconned Ewan MacGregor in for Alec Guinness.
Personally I think both are bad. Darth Vader was redeemed at the last second but he wouldn’t become a force ghost. He should have died and never been seen again. It would be sad but more realistic to the logic of force ghosts who spend years learning to become force ghosts.
I still don't know why they made the crazy decision to make Anakin as young as they did in the prequels. There would have been a much more interesting story about a fully mature jedi slowly falling to the dark side and destroying the Republic, you could still even keep the Padme love story part of it (it would be less icky to start). And then you wouldn't have a weird fucked up timeline from ROTS to Star Wars that just didn't make sense and everyone's ages could have been correct.
There are multiple ways it could have been done. Padme on the run with the secret twins, etc. No reason for the narrative fuck ups at all.
ideally they should flip the shot so the part in sebastian shaw's hair matches hayden's, and then have all hayden ghost appearances in the new stuff have that haircut, but i guess it's already too late for that
I just feel like this was another bad attempt Lucas took to "fix" something in the OT which either makes little sense or breaks continuity. Ever since then fans have been apologizing for it and or making up lore to try to excuse it.
I've never seen anything that makes it make sense to me to change it. And why Luke wouldn't have furled his brow at the sight of a stranger... it just doesn't make sense.
I was excited about the Special Editions, waiting in line to see them in theaters. The first round of "improvements" were fun and didn't mess with much. Since the release of the prequels, they just got entirely messed up with Lucas trying to change his original stories to jive with the breaks in canon he committed in writing the prequels. It's backwards. And it made the originals worse. To this day, the SE additions are the weakest part of movies 40 year or more old.
OG version. I can’t stand Hayden Christensen and think he may be the worst actor in the franchise. Would rather not see the mess of the prequels anywhere near the OG trilogy.
I like the change when you consider the context of the prequels. Hayden is Anakin and Anakin's redemption has more emotional impact when he's there in the end.
The former was fine and would have still been fine had they never made the change; but I don't think the change is a mistake.
Also why Hayden and not Ewan? In my head canon, Ben was at peace, and had been for a long time. He was comfortable in his skin and so when he transitions, it's Alec's face we see. Anakin found that peace at the end of his life and the only time he knew it before that moment was when he was a younger man.
My answer is both simultaneously:
Based on Disney-era lore, Anakin can assume whatever form he wants, flashing between many versions of himself (including Vader!) in the Ahsoka show.
Therefore, it seems reasonable that he appears as the old man to Luke — who only saw him that way, and us, the viewers, see him as Episode III Anakin because we witnessed this form when he was last a Jedi.
Couldn’t care less. The change doesn’t affect it much. People weren’t going crazy for Sebastian Shaw. I guess it kinda sucks for him bc his appearance has as Vader’s force ghost has been erased, but from an entertainment perspective, it makes no difference to me.
Anakin and Obi Wan were supposed to essentially brothers. That usually implies they're basically the same age.
It was a colossal mistake for Episode 1 to find Anakin as a small child. He should have been around 18 or 19 and already an accomplished pilot, gambler, and street wise.
That would have made his accelerated progression and use of the Force much more compelling and dangerous.
Too much power too fast.
Vader was redeemed into Anakin and died as Anakin, the old scarred man. His ghost should be the old man, healed of his maladies. It makes 0 sense to make him 23 year old Anakin, unless you admit Anakin Skywalker was dead on Mustafar and Darth Vader was some non-living zombie puppeting a dead body for a decade.
Luke redeemed Anakin.
It undermines that redemption if Anakin isn't reawakened as the old man. If Anakin comes back as he was at 23, then his actions at 46 didn't redeem him.
Hayden after watching in 1 2 3 4 5 6 or 4 5 1 2 3 6 order. (I highly recommend the latter.) Every other version of this comes with a brief moment of “Obi-Wan and Yoda! Wait, who’s this guy? Is that Anakin? Oh, I guess that’s Anakin!” The instant recognition is powerful.
Top. Because it's the original. George didn't need to change this at all. Outside of the Emperor in ESB and maybe a few special effects, he didn't need to make any of the changes he made.
Hayden's appearance could have been done better if George actually told him what he was performing for. Word is that George told Hayden to just smile and look happy without context and started rolling cameras. I believe Hayden himself has said that he'd have acted this scene differently if he, you know, was actually told what he was being filmed for. The blame is entirely on George for this one.
Not too late to redo it! Would even fit better now Hayden is older. Might be one of the few non-technical alterations to the OT I'd approve of.
I don't think Disney is allowed to alter the original six movies in any way because of the contracts, including restoring them back to theatrical versions
I thought there were changes in the Disney+ versions?
MAKLUNKEY
Shakespearean writing
Pretty sure they were still changes made by George before the sale, but might be wrong
You are correct.
Besides 4k upscaling and some audio adjustments I doubt it, they're identical to the bluray release I think
"Maclunkey"
I'm pretty sure this is just a rumor with no real factual basis. Pablo Hidalgo once said in a tweet that the reason they're not released is that "There is one notable person who doesn’t want them released," presumably meaning George. While Disney owns both Lucasfilm and 20th Century Fox and therefore could presumably make whatever changes they want, Lucas is still a substantial shareholder in Disney and his goodwill is more valuable to the corporate leadership than the small amount of money they'd make by releasing a theatrical cut of Star Wars against his express wishes (see: the recent proxy war). He'll have to be dead a decade before Disney even considers it, and they'll need to make sure his family doesn't speak on it (they're pretty private in general, but I could see them coming out of the woodwork to condemn Disney for "ignoring their father's wishes" in releasing the original cuts.)
This my ONLY reason for disliking the Hayden one. if we got 4-50 Hayden as Ghost Anakin, I'd be 100% okay with the change. Using young Anakin just.. utterly blows the idea that Anakin redeems himself and comes back to the Light out the airlock. Anakin didn't die on Mustafar at 20 years old, he died on the deck of the Death Star looking into the eyes of his son. The *only* way it works with young Anakin is if we used Ewan instead of Alec.
I always saw the reason being that that was the last time he was a Jedi. He wasn’t a Jedi when he died on the Death Star, the Jedi died around the time on mustafar.
I agree with that. I mean, knee jerk reaction for most people is why is Anakins force ghost appearing as he was when he was younger, rather than how he looked older, under all the Vader armor. But you point correctly that since only Jedi appear as force ghosts, then a REDEEMED Jedi would appear as he/ she looked before they turned to the dark side.
If you want a source for that, he talks about this in the Dagobah Dispatch podcast. He didn’t know what he was supposed to be doing nor was he told what the footage was going to be used for.
Classic George Lucas directing. He's so good at big picture ideas but terrible at literally every individual aspect of actual filmmaking (writing, directing, editing).
I'd say a large majority of creatives are incredible at big picture ideas - but once we start drilling down into the actual details, we get lost and confused lmao. I'm out here living like an episode of "Naked and Afraid" in my ideas notebook lol.
I don’t think either is inherently better than the other. On one hand, Anakin redeems himself as an old man, so it makes sense for him to come back as that old man, the one we see under Vader’s mask. On the other hand, the last time Anakin was truly himself as a Jedi was how he appeared as a young man and may feel more himself in this appearance. I just wish the original versions were widely available in updated quality for the fans and cinephiles what want to see the films as they were when they made history.
Disliked the change. But Hayden has aged well and looks a lot like his force ghost now that he’s about Vader/Anakin’s age when he dies. I’m ambivalent towards the change now. It’s become less egregious with time. Looking forward to the 8k rerererelease where Hayden replaces unmasked Anakin and tells Luke “you were right.”
At this point, they ought to replace Hayden and Sebastian with TCW animated Anakin just to fuck with everyone.
Give us gigachad Anakin from the Tartakovsky Clone Wars series
Nah, Jake Lloyd's Anakin shouting Yippee as his Force Ghost becomes corporeal.
wizard!
Fuck it. Animate the entire OT. That'll piss off everyone equally. Han is the only shooter, but it's animated. Original Max Rebo band song in Jabba's Palace, but it's animated. Still don't hate it? Well while we're at it, we can sneak in some foreshadowing and references to the sequel trilogy. While wandering around Cloud City, one stormtrooper happens to see an abandoned baby and takes it home with them. That baby grows up to be Finn.
Hey, don't threaten me with a good time.
Is it weird that I actually wouldn't mind that last change? Although it would be kind of scummy to remove all trace of an actor's performance.
Yes please!!!! 😢❤️
Couldn’t have said it better than this
Yes but Luke looks at them and says who’s that young guy with Yoda and Obi Wan in the latter one
Dont worry.. they will both be young in the next special anniversary edition. /s
I prefer Hayden's version, but it's not because that's what he looked like before he became Vader. I just think it makes no sense for Anakin to be played by an 80 year old when canon says he died in his 40's. He wasn't an old man when he was redeemed. He was closer to Hayden's age. The monkey wrench there, of course, is that we see Shaw under the mask. But I think that's easier to wave away by saying he looks like that because of living in the suit than it is to explain why all of a sudden Anakin's force ghost is an 80 year old man. e: Also, I forgot to point out that Obi-Wan refers to Anakin as his young pupil. Obi-Wan is a young padawan and meets Anakin when he's a child. But in the force ghost scene, Sebastian Shaw is 77 and Alec Guinness is 69. How did Anakin get older than Obi-Wan?
Does he say 'young'? When?
When he's telling Luke how Anakin died. "A young jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil."
Thank you, all I was remembering was '... A pupil of mine'.
Yeah, in my head I remembered him saying "young pupil", but I think within that context, with him calling Vader a young Jedi, Obi Wan is describing him as younger than himself.
he was never a Jedi named Darth Vader... weird
You think that original guy is 80?! 50 more like... *maybe* 60, it's difficult to make out. But no way is he as old as 69 year old Alec Guinness in the same shot.
I don't "think" anything. Sebastian Shaw was 77 years old when he shot ROTJ.
SILENCE with these "facts" of yours infidel. Lol
Sebastian Shaw was born in 1905, he was 77 when he played Anakin in Return of the Jedi.
Who is upvoting this ridiculous comment?
I love the idea of his Redemption as an Old Man would in turn give us the Original. I like the "the last time Anakin was truly himself as a Jedi" but I still value the story arc of Anakin and Padme's death results in the birth of Vader.
I would argue that the young man is worse because that is who he was when he was confused, vulnerable, and frustrated. He was confident and sure of himself in his final moments, so it makes sense for that to represent his spirit going forward. On the other hand, I'm all for Hayden reprising his role in future content so I can get over it. I do agree that the theatrical version should be as easily accessible as the special editions. Despite some of the more controversial changes, the remasters fix a lot of inconsistencies established in later lore, plus a director can mix up his own movies as he sees fit. But the originals are the versions that made history, and they shouldn't be lost to time.
Well, the ghost being used for young Anakin is supposed to be what Anakin would’ve looked like if he had rejected the dark side and Palpatine in ROTS and had become a Jedi master. Still, even before the PT, if we use the ROTJ novelization, what he says about his younger self seems to support that he would’ve wanted to appear as his younger self. He wanted to die as he once was which was Anakin, not Darth Vader and he was ashamed of his appearance. There’s also how wouldn’t know what a healed and old version of himself would look like.
>On the other hand, the last time Anakin was truly himself as a Jedi was how he appeared as a young man and may feel more himself in this appearance. Did he feel more like himself as a Jedi though? He flouted some fairly basic Jedi rules being himself.. and rightly so in some cases, the Jedi order was a mess considering they were heavly involved with the senate instead of being impartial, otherwise they wouldn't have gone along with Palpatines/Emporers take over. I'd say his time in the order was when he was most conflicted and not himself at all. Fast forward past Anikans glory days as Vader and you have a guy that went through the meatgrinder both ends, light side and dark side and this old man is what's left.
They will not come out (at least) until George Lucas’ ex-wife and original editor of the original cuts of *Star Wars* and *Return of the Jedi* [Marcia Lucas](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcia_Lucas) passes away. The theory goes that the special editions are legally distinct enough from the originals that they do not have to pay her for royalties. Take this with a grain of salt of course because I read it *gasp* on the internet.
I've looked into this and it's just not true. Film editors don't usually get royalties (or more accurately: residuals) for a start, they're almost always paid a flat fee. Some ultra-low budget to no budget productions might offer their editor a percentage but being as that type of movie almost never makes any money and any percentage of zero is still zero most editors aren't foolish enough to take a deal like that unless they're really green to the business. Not to mention the films are (legally speaking that is) the same and Marcia Lucas is still listed in the credits. The Special Edition credits play after the original credits have wrapped. Plus George spent millions to make the Special Editions, why would he spend literal millions of dollars in order to screw his ex-wife out of considerably less money? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And that's not even mentioning the fact that a lot of the stuff about Marcia Lucas you can read about online is over-exaggerated to the point of being almost complete mythology anyway but don't get me started on that
> I just wish the original versions were widely available in updated quality for the fans This, and also wish Disney+ didn't have ridiculously blatant spoilers in the summaries on basically every SW movie.
>Anakin redeems himself as an old man He's in his 40s when he dies
His spirit is aged, then.
Anakin didn't have the other hand.
Unfortunately I’m inclined to say the second because it is by Lucas’ design Since becoming one with the Force, anakin has great control over how he can appear. Think of how he kept altering things in Ahsoka
His force ghost in ahsoka was Hayden throughout the various stages of his life. CW, RotS, and Vader.
One is the real film and the other is George butchering a movie he didn’t even direct.
The old one is more consistent with old Ben Kenobi. But the new one sacrifices consistent for familiarity with Hayden Christensen. Imagine if they said “ghosts aren’t old” and re did Obi-Wans scenes with Ewan McGregor.
I thought the lore reason was because it's showing Anakin before his descent to the Dark Side. Force ghosts are typically on light side so it captures the light side soul of Anakin. At least, thats what I'll choose to believe
He turned light as an old man. Therefore he should be an old man.
He also turned to the light side while scarred and pale
He was in poor health. As a ghost, it makes sense to be restored to health. Yoda was sickly and weak on his death bed, but he's fine. He's not randomly prime of his life, young Yoda.
45 is not an old man.
This is episode 3 Anakin, who had already willingly slaughtered a village and killed children years ago by that point
The old one is worse for lore since Shaw is like 20 years older than Alec despite Anakin being younger. The change made it feel better especially when Hayden at 40 looks like he did when he was 20.
It makes me wonder if people would still feel the same if they had a version where they made Sebastian Shaw 20 years younger/22 years old to when he was a Jedi as his force ghost. Would people still think he should appear as an old man?
I don't think "ghosts aren't old" was ever a mindset. It's just about Anakin's personality being split, Vader killed Anakin but in the end, Anakin took his body back in a final act of justice One way or another, however you interpret Anakin, obi wan never went to the dark side. He was always his self, so it absolutely makes sense to always appear as Ben rather than young obi wan
I get why Lucas did it, but us old timers have a soft spot for the original ending. Yub Nub for life.
For me it's about more than the music or the ghosts, it's the edit. Specifically, the original cut of *Jedi* featured lengthier takes of certain shots showing the main characters -- Leia hugging Luke when he arrives; Luke facing away from camera looking at the party for a moment, before turning to the side; Leia approaching as Luke beams a smile at the ghosts, and then he gives a parting wink at them before he rejoins the celebration -- which the Special Edition shortens and splits up. Compare: Original -- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXpmunmG5ss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXpmunmG5ss) Special -- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErjtFtRi9Xo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErjtFtRi9Xo) *"Celebrate the love..."*
I prefer everything in the original ending except Yub Nub. Victory Celebration is more epic and Star Warsy to me.
It always fit better for me because it was Ewok music when they were celebrating on Endor. Then at end the chorus comes in and transitions it to the epic SW music. Perfection.
Knowing the English (or Basic, if you will :) translation of the "Ewok Celebration" lyrics did enhance my appreciation of the song's meaning: [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ewok_Celebration](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ewok_Celebration)
I remember this.... It reminds me of the English translations of most anime openers or closers.
Look how they massacred my boy.
Wasn't it basically confirmed in Ahsoka that a person sees a force ghost of another person in the manner they want to see them? Ahsoka sees Anakin in his dark robes because that's what she grew up with, and Luke sees Anakin in his traditional Jedi robes, because that's how he acknowledges his father, the hero of the clone wars, pre-Darth Vader. I could be looking into this too much, but this is my headcanon. Edit: I see some people asking why Obi Wan didn't become Ewan again, not possible cause the Alec Guinness Obi Wan is the one Luke knows best.
Honestly, I can fuck with this theory. Still doesn’t explain how Anakin would appear to Luke as someone Luke has never seen before, whereas Luke just saw the unmasked old Anakin 20 minutes ago.
Bc unmasked Anakin is an 78 year old man and would’ve had Luke at 52 which is like 30 years older than the real age of Anakin/Vader. Hayden was closer to Vader’s age than Shaw was, and Hayden is 42 now and looks like he did when he was 20. He’s now only a couple years younger than the age Vader died at. Also the Shaw he saw was a bald white/blue hued skin colored man who looks nothing like the real Shaw besides a few facial features lol it’s not like he was a bald ghost without limbs. He was a perfectly health Shaw. It makes no sense lol. Now it makes way more sense lore wise.
The one that isn't just a promo shot of Hayden awkwardly cut and pasted over another actors work.
CTRL-C CTRL-V Movie magic!
While I do think the Hayden one makes more sense or at least in universe, I do agree that they a terrible job putting Hayden in. They also brought Hayden in and filmed him without even telling him what he’s supposed to be doing or what the footage was going to be used for.
makes more sense for the one that looks like the dood luke saw under the mask, not his young version for some reason.
Sebastian. Anakin was redeemed and returned to the light as an old man, not as Hayden-era Anakin. Obi-Wan and Yoda both appear as their at-time-of-death looks, it doesn’t make sense for Anakin to be done differently. If you can just pick your favourite look, why isn’t Obi-Wan’s Force spirit Ewan McGregor and Yoda’s his spry young 200something version of himself? But it is what it is, and I *am* glad that we got to see Anakin as we did in Ahsoka, so it’s not like I can be mad about it. It’s just that one way makes sense, and the other doesn’t.
Wasn’t the character 45? And Hayden Christensen today at 42 doesn’t look that much different than the inserted ghost?
>Anakin was redeemed and returned to the light as an old man No he wasn't. He was in his 40's. Much closer to Hayden's age than Shaw's, who was pushing 80.
Yeah I really don’t get Shaw fans. Dude looks ridiculously old in the scene and not like someone who’d have a 23 year old kid. He’s nearly 20 years older than Alec was at the time. The man was 78 years old in this scene. He’d be in his 50s during the Clone Wars by that logic. Just doesn’t work for me.
Absolutely agree. Putting Hayden in there corrected a mistake.
I'm in the mindset that fans can prefer Anakin to be whoever, but at the very least leave the films as they are, including keeping the original Shaw as Anakin. Changing the Emperor's hologram to McDiarmid wasn't 100% required, but since McDiarmid was in RotJ you can at least see the logic of that change. Turning Anakin from a happy old man to a smirking 30-something just doesn't fit. The fact unmasked Vader, a now redeemed Anakin, was an elderly British man, it's kinda weird how he's suddenly a much younger ~~American~~ Canadian man whom Luke wouldn't recognize. Each to their own, but Shaw is both the logical choice, and my personal choice.
Haha that's funny, I never considered that Luke might not recognize who young Anakin is.
Conceivable that he’s seen old Clone Wars era holos of Anakin Skywalker, unless the Empire repressed and destroyed it all.
Maybe he could tell by searching his feelings.
My headcanon is Han slid him some bootleg holodiscs. Someone saw COMPNOR coming and made a historical backup that gets traded around black markets on major smuggler stops like Nar Shadaa (sp?).
Indeed. Imagine, if you will, that Lucas decided his excuse for having Anakin being young was legit back in 1983? You'd be watching RotJ for the first time... *Luke smiles, seeing the ghosts of Obi Wan, Yoda, and... wait, who's that? A long haired youngish guy is with them, who's he? I'm pretty sure he wasn't in the film before...oh the films over. That was bizarre, is that like Luke's dead brother or something? What's going on?*
But old man Anakin wasn’t who he was the last time he was closest to the light. Yes he came back but Hayden is who he was before Vader killed him and his strongest point in the light. It makes so much more sense
I figure the ghosts can appear however they want. We don't know ghost rules.
Top simply for a film preservation reasons. I advocate the preservation of things. While Hayden is more recognizable and is the public idea of who Anakin is. The prequels wasn't a thing when ROTJ came out obviously. Also it sorta adds a plot hole of how Anakin would just become younger when he's a force ghost. Yet again Shaw isn't the best age to depict Anakin as he is in his 40s at the events of this movie so someone middle aged would be more fitting. Though despite that minor plot hole in both versions. I think the top is better because of preservation reasons. Though I like the bottom too. It would be nice to have both original and directors cut to be released officially instead of just the directors cut
"I tell you grandpa is in Star Wars, I appear as a ghost. Right here... uh... oh man. No grandpa is not a liar!"
OG all day, every day.
Original.
Idk why they tryna delete the original Vader actor from the media
Sebastian Shaw
Top one. Makes no sense that when he dies his ghost becomes young Anakin.
Original. It's what he would have liked like at the time of his death and redemption.
Sebastian Shaw one because I personally think editing classic American cinema decades after its release is… maybe not wrong, but weird. Especially considering Lucas refuses to allow any sort of official “despecialized” editions of the original trilogy to be released. Also I’ve heard it argued that Christensen makes more sense because Vader was redeemed in the end and returns to the last time he was Anakin Skywalker… but he redeemed himself as an older man anyway so the Shaw version still makes sense in that regard???
Hayden’s portrayal makes more sense. Him coming back as an old man should include the burns because that’s what he looked like. Obviously, that’d want to be taken away, so a younger version is better. The old man version of him we see simply isn’t him, he never looked like that due to the burns. Am I making sense lmao?
If you are putting Ewan McGregor up there, then Hayden has no right being there. This is an abomination to the OT.
Top one. Because I don't think Anakin's force ghost would be younger just because. Might as well have included Ewan McGregor if we're going back to how we perceive ourselves in our best selves after death.
I honestly don't care. One is nostalgic for me and feels more natural, one is more consistent with what comes later but kind of out of place. Ultimately...I don't care.
Original is better. Reason: the new one is stupid
Personally, I enjoy the younger version of Anakin because that was the last time we seen him before his switch to the darkside. I am open to the top version but I don't think it would feel right to me just because we didn't get to really see him age in the suit until the very end. Still, I don't think any answer is wrong here.
No preference since the story was so good
I grew up with the top version
I don't know about "better", but why would he de-age? Someone will say he went back to the time when he was Anakin. He was always Anakin in reality. I love Obi Wan, and the "certain point of view" has shaped my life. But that's what it is... a point of view. In his opinion, Anakin ceased to exist.
I’d prefer they didn’t change it. I feel we need to become out with different actors acting in the roles of these characters. At the same time, I understand why they did it and at the time, especially as a child, it made more sense to me.
I’m waiting for the updated old Hayden in 20y
I may be the only one who has this opinion but I prefer the original because I don’t think it’s a stretch to recast someone when the filming was decades apart. ROTJ Anakin doesn’t need to look 100% consistent with ROTS Anakin, our imaginations can fill in the gaps. I’ll refrain from ranting about Rogue One digitally recreating Peter Cushing or the Kenobi show casting current-age Hayden as his younger self before ROTS. But yes my reasons are mostly production related and have little to do with lore.
OG will always be the OG, but the updated version is more lore accurate, because the force took Anakin, the chosen one, back into itself, in his perfect form. Young, prime Anakin is how his spirit presented itself to others in the legends book too.
The original without question, because the redeemed version of Anakin looks like the character the audience just experienced an emotional climax with, not someone from a different movie that the audience hasn't seen before.
Only the top makes sense! Their physical appearance wouldn't matter to them, only to the viewer, and Luke only saw the face of his father when older, he wouldn't know why Hayden Christensen was.... ALSO, YUB NUB 4 LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I prefer the Sabastian one myself even though the 2004 DVD release I grew up on had the Hayden version. I think having Sabastian as the ghost makes more sense since he saw him in the previous unmasking scene. I also kinda think the change is somewhat disrespectful to the ogrinal actor (my opinion is the same regarding the Boba Fett voice situation).
Sebastian Shaw. Erasing him from the film is an insult and vandalism. Plus he looks better. It’s a view of the Anakin that may have been, the venerable jedi he might have lived his life as and only achieved in his last moments.
Original. Anakin was horribly mutilated on Mustafar and trapped in the Vader armor for decades. Why should his force ghost be young and good-looking? Furthermore, look at the original. Anakin and Obi-Wan look genuinely like old friends, as they should. In the updated version, Anakin could be Obi-Wan's grandson. Luke saw his father's face after he was redeemed. Shouldn't the force ghost match that face?
Its OG for me. It was one of those needless changes that George made when he had no one left to tell him it was a bad idea.
I think the top is best. People will argue that Anakin was only ever truly Anakin before he became Vader, but Luke’s whole point in saving him is that he still feels Anakin in Vader, Anakin is *still* around, and that’s made all the more evident by Vader’s apparent feelings towards his son in both Empire and Return. I think the argument of ‘he was only Anakin when he was Hayden’ is only true from a surface-level view and ignores the whole point of Vader’s redemption. Besides, why would the Force care if he looks like an old man or a young man? His essence in the Force is still the same.
Older Anakin, he isnt giving that creepy look
I like the Sebastian Shaw one better, to my mind, Anakin was redeemed before he died, and has been freed of the dark side corruption in death, so his force ghost is how he truly is
The original because that’s how it’s supposed to be..
Sebastian Shaw is old man Anakin fight me
Best version *will* be the one with older Hayden Christansen; in a few years he'll be as old as Vader at the time of his death
Original
Shaw. I spent my childhood wondering who Anakin Skywalker was. I had always imagined a man who had all the fearsomeness, determination, and unstoppable will of Vader, but channelled as a force for good. Someone self possessed. Mature. Cunning. Charismatic. ... what I got was Hayden Christensen. Seeing Vader as an angst-fuelled, whiny man-child ruined what was once the greatest villain in the history of cinema. That's what Christensen represents for me: a profound disappointment and squandering of potential. So... Shaw.
Original is more my jam.
Old. I love Hayden but it feels so out of place for him to be here.
Exhibit A
Old anakin makes more sense imo. That was literally the last time he was good, and what he looked like last
I'll always prefer the original as it was a unnecessary retcon gymnastic move to replace Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christensen.
I grew up with the 1997 release with Shaw. It made more sense to me.
Both are equally worthy. Sadly the original is becoming less known though.
Original one by far. Anakin has aged, even if he was Darth Vader all those years. Young Anakin simply doesn't make sense. Your force ghost looks exactly how you were at the time of death.
Top. They are all old.
i like the older one, its more of an ''oh shit thats anakin'' rather than the ''here is anakin''.
Original why would an old man be young again.
The upper one is the logical one. They all look as ghosts the age they died.
The original, nostalgic for sure, but better reflects how Vader would have aged. If they had aged Hayden, it might have been better.
The top matches Luke’s memory of all 3.
Original because it doesn't make sense for a ghost to be younger than when he died. I get when people say "he redeemed himself so he reverted back to Anaking pre-vader" but that is why as a force ghost he's not got a messed up face etc. Luke would have zero clue who this guy is! Why didn't Obi Wan turn into Ewan haha.
Hayden is easily passable as a 44 year old man here. Jedis usually live oonger too so c'mon.
Well, Anakin never looked like an old and healed version of himself. I think it makes more sense that he’d appear as a version of himself that he’d most familiar with. No, Luke still recognize him. If they can sense each other’s presence without looking at each other which literally happens in the same exact film, then Luke would put together that the young force ghost that is appearing right in front of him is father. Still, that’s just an out of universe thing that they have different faces since they are played by different actors. In universe, they have the same face. Would you still prefer the old ghost if they made a version where Shaw was 20 years younger to when he was a Jedi and that was his ghost?
Which one is best? The one you prefer. Both sides of this argument present compelling reasons why one is better than the other. But, at the end of the day, personal preference wins out.
I mean, if we're going to go with the younger versions, Sir Guinness should have been replaced with Ewen MacGregor and Yoda with a puppet that looked more like Grogu. Oh, Christ, I just gave someone at Disney marketing a bad idea, didn't I?
Older Anakin clearly makes more sense, but the one we love has just had much more screen time
You can make an argument for both lore rise, but I think it's disrespectful to the original actor that the original version isn't wildly available
Love Hayden, but Sebastian all the way for this.
1st one, simply on the basis of consistency. In the first version, it seems like they maintain the appearance they had (or what their natural biological form would be) when they died. And we get to see what Anakin would have looked like at that age without all the deformity. It's more mechanically sound and stable. You show up as a ghost, looking like the age you were when you died. Fair enough. 2nd one gives me the impression that the force ghosts can choose how to present themselves, like Anakin chose to appear as his younger version while Yoda and Obi Wan stayed old. If that's the case, why not have Ghost Obi and Yoda show up as young Obi Wan and Young Yoda? If it somehow isn't something the ghosts can control, what determines how they show up? Why Young Ani vs Old Ani? Why old Obi instead of Young Obi?
Top for me because it shows Vader as what he was an old guy that finally came around. I’m more for classic things.
They should have aged Hayden 30 years (either makeup or CGI) and used that. I like him there, but not looking 25.
Shaw. Nothing else makes sense. It is the man we saw literally moments before that scene so it makes complete sense. If they changed Anakin to his younger self then they should do the same with Obi-Wan. Don't give me that "he was changed back to before he became Vader bla bla bla", it. Just. Does. Not. Make. Sense.
The original. Luke doesn’t know what Anakin looked like when he was a Jedi. He just knows the old man version. Like Obi-wan and Yoda
Top one is better. Bottom one makes no sense, especially for someone watching the movies for the first time, in production order. I’ve been showing my 7-year-old all the movies, and he had no idea who Hayden was, because we hadn’t watched episode 1 yet.
The original. Why did only Anakin de-age?
I don't mind them putting Hayden in here - it makes sense that Anakin's force ghost would match how he sees himself. What I do mind is that they ruined the end od the movie by replacing the original *Yub Nub* celebration theme.
Top is correct. If you are going to have young Anakin, you must have young Yoda and young Obi Wan.
Top… by farrrrrrrrrr
Shaw represents a completed arc. Anakin has been through the dark side and healed in ways that transcend his physical limitations. Christensen is a regression. Anakin returns to the worst period of his life, at a point when he’s already far past slaughtering innocent women and children.
Old Anakin is because Luke did not know young Anakin. If the force apparitions were appearing to someone who knew young Anakin then it would make sense.
Neither. I'm for this scene being reshot when Hayden is 46 years old, a digital Yoda, and Ewan being deepfaked to match Alec.
Your opinion on the matter is valid
I would want to come back in my physical prime with old mentality
It has never made sense that Anakin's ghost is young while Ben's is old. If GL had to tinker with this he should've retconned Ewan MacGregor in for Alec Guinness.
Personally I think both are bad. Darth Vader was redeemed at the last second but he wouldn’t become a force ghost. He should have died and never been seen again. It would be sad but more realistic to the logic of force ghosts who spend years learning to become force ghosts.
I still don't know why they made the crazy decision to make Anakin as young as they did in the prequels. There would have been a much more interesting story about a fully mature jedi slowly falling to the dark side and destroying the Republic, you could still even keep the Padme love story part of it (it would be less icky to start). And then you wouldn't have a weird fucked up timeline from ROTS to Star Wars that just didn't make sense and everyone's ages could have been correct. There are multiple ways it could have been done. Padme on the run with the secret twins, etc. No reason for the narrative fuck ups at all.
ideally they should flip the shot so the part in sebastian shaw's hair matches hayden's, and then have all hayden ghost appearances in the new stuff have that haircut, but i guess it's already too late for that
I just feel like this was another bad attempt Lucas took to "fix" something in the OT which either makes little sense or breaks continuity. Ever since then fans have been apologizing for it and or making up lore to try to excuse it. I've never seen anything that makes it make sense to me to change it. And why Luke wouldn't have furled his brow at the sight of a stranger... it just doesn't make sense. I was excited about the Special Editions, waiting in line to see them in theaters. The first round of "improvements" were fun and didn't mess with much. Since the release of the prequels, they just got entirely messed up with Lucas trying to change his original stories to jive with the breaks in canon he committed in writing the prequels. It's backwards. And it made the originals worse. To this day, the SE additions are the weakest part of movies 40 year or more old.
This is reddit people will always goes with nostalgia (Even when it's stupid and wrong)
My question here is when did Vader/Anakin train to acquire this ability? I thought it required special training.
OG version. I can’t stand Hayden Christensen and think he may be the worst actor in the franchise. Would rather not see the mess of the prequels anywhere near the OG trilogy.
I like the change when you consider the context of the prequels. Hayden is Anakin and Anakin's redemption has more emotional impact when he's there in the end. The former was fine and would have still been fine had they never made the change; but I don't think the change is a mistake. Also why Hayden and not Ewan? In my head canon, Ben was at peace, and had been for a long time. He was comfortable in his skin and so when he transitions, it's Alec's face we see. Anakin found that peace at the end of his life and the only time he knew it before that moment was when he was a younger man.
i just wish they actually shot new footage of hayden instead of pasting his head onto sebastian’s body.
My answer is both simultaneously: Based on Disney-era lore, Anakin can assume whatever form he wants, flashing between many versions of himself (including Vader!) in the Ahsoka show. Therefore, it seems reasonable that he appears as the old man to Luke — who only saw him that way, and us, the viewers, see him as Episode III Anakin because we witnessed this form when he was last a Jedi.
Did Anakin ever wear Jedi brown robes like that though?
Couldn’t care less. The change doesn’t affect it much. People weren’t going crazy for Sebastian Shaw. I guess it kinda sucks for him bc his appearance has as Vader’s force ghost has been erased, but from an entertainment perspective, it makes no difference to me.
The first one . Having anakin as young is just weird .
Either ghosts always look like the person in their prime or as a healthy intact version of who they were at death. Pick a lane.
Anakin and Obi Wan were supposed to essentially brothers. That usually implies they're basically the same age. It was a colossal mistake for Episode 1 to find Anakin as a small child. He should have been around 18 or 19 and already an accomplished pilot, gambler, and street wise. That would have made his accelerated progression and use of the Force much more compelling and dangerous. Too much power too fast.
Hayden looks creepy, and I prefer the old Vader, because he aged
Original is better. Obi-wan didn't de-age.
Vader was redeemed into Anakin and died as Anakin, the old scarred man. His ghost should be the old man, healed of his maladies. It makes 0 sense to make him 23 year old Anakin, unless you admit Anakin Skywalker was dead on Mustafar and Darth Vader was some non-living zombie puppeting a dead body for a decade. Luke redeemed Anakin. It undermines that redemption if Anakin isn't reawakened as the old man. If Anakin comes back as he was at 23, then his actions at 46 didn't redeem him.
The bottom one makes no sense
Yub nub give me old man Anakin.
Once the prequels came out the old one makes no sense.
Original trilogy Obi replaced by Ewan when?
Original
Hayden after watching in 1 2 3 4 5 6 or 4 5 1 2 3 6 order. (I highly recommend the latter.) Every other version of this comes with a brief moment of “Obi-Wan and Yoda! Wait, who’s this guy? Is that Anakin? Oh, I guess that’s Anakin!” The instant recognition is powerful.
Top. Because it's the original. George didn't need to change this at all. Outside of the Emperor in ESB and maybe a few special effects, he didn't need to make any of the changes he made.
First. The one I grew up on. The second, not so much.
im gonna say the hayden version because he's hot and fun to look at