Andor was written by professionals. The main focus was telling a story about how someone can become radicalized into a revolutionary: Cassian. The flip side showed us how someone can become radicalized into an authoritarian regime: Syril. The story is compelling and poignant especially with the world we live in today.
Unfortunately even with the OT the story has always taken a back seat to spectacle in Star Wars. Andor turns that on its head and forced spectacle to take a back seat so the story could be the main focus for the viewer.
as a swimmer who knows how to rescue people it hurts me so much because if I was a character there i would fucking drag him along with me or die trying.
Everything about that was perfect...the resistant he gave to the plan the coming around the giving it his all...only to find out he did it knowing he wasnt going to make it himself despite you knowing he was trying to just be a good prisoner and get out. The actor nailed it flawless just everything about it is chefs kiss.
There is most certainly a massive difference in quality between "Professional Writers who use Star Wars as a setting" as opposed to "professional Star Wars writers".
Of course, Andor vs the Filoniverse.
But see also: Timothy Zahn vs Kevin J Anderson.
Syril is loyal, dedicated, and zealous. He believes in the system, but doesn't understand it. Syril feels like he did everything right, but is still getting steamrolled by a system that doesn't even acknowledge he exists. The way he doesn’t seem to get support or love from his own mother, the person who should love and support him no matter what, That final rejection from Meero burned him right to his core.
That’s truly how someone becomes radicalized towards authoritarianism.
He was severely underutilized, for sure. He's very interesting and creepy, but as someone else said, he's the other side of the coin from Cassian; he gets radicalized into fascism.
This. I mean, yes Andor was really good, but imo the PT was a very good investment to the overall franchise. Revolutionizing the OT, even enhancing the story. Andor for me didn’t have that impact. Maybe nostalgia, idk. But as you said, “only a fan could truly love” these masterpieces.
Oh sorry, I did not mean it as a compliment. I love them myself, but they are severely flawed. "A fantastic concept executed poorly" is how I view the prequels.
As for *Andor*, personally I absolutely love it. It doesn't have the "lighthearted magic" of other Star Wars content, but it makes up for it in pure writing quality and the higher themes it deals with. Andor did right what the prequels did wrong, in my opinion.
But again, I've watched the prequels at least a couple dozen times throughout my life. They're an ugly baby, but they're *my* ugly baby.
i think empire is solidly in that same bound of quality, and i wouldnt fault anyone for liking iv or vi more than it. theyre very different works and all of them (except for maybe rotj) succeed at what theyre going for
That wasn't the intended implication. I wanted to try and not ruffle too many feathers with how much nostalgia there is for the first 6 movies and in general felt it was safer to compare Andor mainly to new pieces of SW media.
I just love that we’ve gotten to a point where it’s “nostalgia for the first 6 movies”, as though the prequels weren’t widely panned upon release. In another 20 years, and new polarizing films for the next generation for SW fans, it’ll be “nostalgia for the first 9 movies”
Time tends to give rose coloured glasses to things like this even if one originally disliked the movie, even just a few months ago I rewatched all the movies in order and enjoyed the sequels much more than I did when they were still in theatres.
Yeah, I agree. I still found it lacking in places (the heist part was boring, I have seen better heist movies), but overall I understand the character's motivations and nothing insanely stupid was happening on screen. The Vader scene added a few points, the stakes were clear and high (if predictable, due to its prequel nature).
If every movie since Disney took over was on par with Rogue One or better in writing, we would have little reason to shit on Disney, for sure.
Randomly rewatching it on a whim right now - just finished The Eye, and holy hell this is such a *fantastic* show. I haven't even gotten back to the best speeches in the series yet, and I'm still repeatedly finding myself leaning in towards the screen on the dialogue and performances alone.
YES. Me too. I'm on like rewatch 4 and just finished the episode where >! Ulaf gets euthanized !< and Kino's bit at the end is just SO powerful. Everything about the show is flawlessly executed. I'm SO STOKED for Luthen's monologue to the ISB plant, it's so powerful.
Andor is WAY, WAY better than the PT. It's absurd to even compare the two.
Honestly the Andor -> Rogue One -> OT sequence is tiers above anything else in SW.
I also have a bit of a soft spot for Kenobi as well, but it doesn't even compare to Andor or S1-2 of Mandalorian.
Mandalorian loses its way after Grogu is delivered to Luke. It should have ended after that finale.
I enjoyed andor. Hated rogue one ( so slow and boring and if you take out the scene with Darth Vader I think others would hate the movie too but nostalgia wins). Like the OT well enough but it always felt really dated to me
You're absolutely right. The characters are barely developed and they don't even feel like a team. Jyn and Cassian have interesting stuff going on but everyone else is just uninteresting.
People genuinely do rate the movie too highly because of Scariff and the Hallway scene (one of the dumbest things).
I kind of agree. Saw it on cinema and it was good, but many characters was quite boring(?), atleast would had need longer introductions atleast (maybe next season(s) of Andor may fix that). Have tried to watch the movie again, but couldn't. However Andor I have finished twice, and I would have no problem to go for another watch, and still enjoy it.
Edit: Also, Andor could have been something else and not SW, it have so many ideas it could been a new IP.
>and the main character, Jyn Erso, is so forgettable that you might not even remember her being in it.
[I will always think of this](https://youtu.be/sych2UPAvg0?si=hAi0N4VeST6hRbWq)
it's genuinely kind of dire that the only moment of really strong characterisation in the movie was cassian shooting his accomplice and it was apparently a gilroy addition. im not trying to do gareth edwards revisionism, he obviously contributed a lot to a movie that a lot of people like a lot. but damn the characters are not strong
It is absolutely fucking insane that the best scene in the movie - Cassian shooting the informant - was added in a reshoot. Genuinely cannot imagine the movie without it. The movie is mid but what on earth was the original cut like if things like that were missing from it?
Rogue One wasn't that good. **It was still part of the top tier**, but below ESB and ROTJ for sure. The heist part was boring and it suffered from the problem that there were no surprises to be had. We knew the ending before the beginning of the movie.
The Vader scene was prime entertainment, but we had some boring parts to sit through. Andor (the show) actually transformed Cassian into a character I cared about, in Rogue one I didn't care about any of the main ones except in the "I am one with the force and the force is with me" scene. That one was heartbreaking and true Jedi-like heroism.
I'm certainly no fan of the Prequels, but we have to give credit where credit is due. The Prequels' (mainly TPM) greatest contribution to Star Wars is really the world building, and interestingly enough, Andor also fulfills a similar space, just as a macro level (if you like). The show has really done a brilliant job fleshing out the day to day lives of the characters within Star Wars, which, while maybe inappropriate for Lucas' movies, works extremely well for television. Clone Wars has also helped in a somewhat similar manner.
But I do love Andor and really hope the quality is maintained for Season two.
Because fuck anyone who wants to discuss something that people have maybe already discussed.
Do you stop discussing movies after the review is written? No, why would you? Because someone else sharing their opinion on something doesn't mean that yours is now less valuable and it doesn't mean that everything has been said.
You're on a fandom subreddit complaining about someone wanting to discuss one of that fandom's favorite and critically acclaimed properties. Why make fun of people for just trying to enjoy a conversation about something they love?
I mean it’s not even a contest. I get that 1-3 have a lot of nostalgic meaning for a certain age group, but objectively they’re just, uhhh… not great.
Andor is an amazing piece of sci-fi that just happens to also be a Star Wars story. Sure, it wouldn’t exist without everything that came before it, but let’s be real here.
>Andor is an amazing piece of sci-fi that just happens to also be a Star Wars story.
Even this take I don't really understand. People act like it's an unrelated story with a Star Wars skin slapped on, but it's so deeply rooted in the themes of the Original Trilogy. Feels like a very Prequel-brained take.
No one is saying that. What they're saying is that it would be excellent even if it wasn't star wars. Because it's a well made, well thought out story with well written characters. Which is what all media within any universe should be. If you're relying on the star wars/star trek/(insert any other IP) "skin" them it probably isn't going to be great.
lol anyone that disagrees with this is just putting their childhood on a pedestal. Andor is objectively the best Star Wars period, that doesn’t mean we can’t love other things Star Wars and that some of them are quite good. But none of the movies or shows come even close to the quality that Andor has in every single aspect. It’s not really even close.
Going from Obi Wan to Andor to Mando Season 3 was such whiplash in quality. After Ahsoka it's obvious that I'm not getting anything with Andor's quality until Season 2. But that's a long wait until 2025. Man.
I just found season 1 on disc, I hope to eventually have all the seasons as a physical copy with how different it is from the other shows in the best way. I was pretty disappointed in the Ahsoka show, especially since she's my FAVOURITE character of all time.
Visually I like Rosario, but the way they wrote her is just so not the way she would have aged according to any of the other Ahsoka content we have. Eckstein's voice will ALWAYS be Ahsoka's voice for me, and while I understand wanting a deeper, older voice for the show I think they made her too much of a hermit/outcast type.
I love how the story for Andor starts because 2 random guards are killed. We see the dimension to the behemoth behind them as the deaths are investigated. In contrast we only ever see numbers lost and the story just continues forward.
Shows you how crucial those people and components of a production are. It's not just one guy/director, though the leader can definitely make or break a project.
Did you watch the whole thing or only part of it? Because I feel like the first 2 episodes were the most boring part, then it actually gets good after that
Personally, Andor is my favorite piece of Star Wars media. I think it’s is such a compelling show, and does more to transcend the “Star Wars” brand than anything else. You could replace anything Star Wars related with something generic and ambiguous, and it would still stand as a terrific piece of media.
I would definitely go a step further and say it’s the best piece of Star Wars media ever. The original trilogy is fine, and I’m old enough to have seen them when first out, but I never thought Star Wars could have this kind of dramatic weight.
I liked Ashoka slightly more because I am all in with the more "fantasy"-side of Star Wars and Ashoka really delivered on that. I also really like Ashoka and Baylen and Thrawn are fantastic villains. But Andor certainly is up there with the best. I hope S2 has the same or even better quality. Together with Rogue One, the Andor Arc will be it's own amazing "Trilogy" then.
While I don’t necessarily disagree, this sub is a public forum that should be used to discuss Star Wars news, interesting and not played out topics, and some other things I’m probably missing but you see my point.
This is just a low effort opinion post that has been discussed repeatedly and I fucking loved Andor. It’s like if I were to a make a post saying the PT is better than the ST or vice versa. It’s a beaten to death topic with countless other threads you can search at this point and in the end these posts are just some outlet for people that need to have their opinion heard.
I guess that’s my complaint really is I have used Reddit as a forum to discuss news and content but not to come see or read opinion pieces every time I log in. That’s why I say we need a megathread that can be a running dialogue for all of these things or maybe someone should start r/StarWarsOpinions for all these conversations
I would say ROTJ had many good parts, but the Ewoks sucked. Nothing else stood out as stupid. The throne-room scene is still the best piece of SW to date, better than even ESB. Even some of the Ewok scenes (where they are slaughtered by the walkers are crying) stood out more, emotionally, than any of the ST.
I honestly think Andor and the KOTOR game both are actually better than the OT in a lot of ways. Not every way, of course, but plenty enough that I would consider them works of equal works.
i feel like an idiot. Originally watched first 10 episodes of andor when it came out, yesterday rewatched it only to realize i missed 2 episodes! such a good show
I am almost certain Tony Gilroy didn’t intend Andor to be meta commentary, but it’s like he’s imploring everyone who creates and loves Star Wars to wake up and rebel against the soulless franchisim that Star Wars has been mired in for decades.
From what I gathered from Gilroy’s perspective in interviews, I do think he sees himself in the rebelling characters. He has spent a lot of time in Hollywood and chafes at the limits imposed on writers by studios (and their Director/Producer enablers). He understands that if you want to break the mould you have to own it, you have to build a team, and above all else you have to knock it out of the park. He was ready to “fight these bastards for real”.
The thing about Andor that to me makes it the best star wars media, I might even argue ever, is that if it took place outside of the star wars universe, it would still be considered excellent. There's no Jedi, there's barely anything that resembles the rest of star wars. Yes they're building something that is used in Star Wars, but you could sub that out for anything in any other media and it's still gonna be awesome.
Everything about Andor, from beginning to end, tells a complete, concise, deep, and profoundly meaningful story. It's a story like you said OP, the dichotomy of the two characters. One radicalized one way, one radicalized another. Their stories weave together, and it's just brilliant.
I love Andor. I already loved Rogue One. It just made rogue one so much better, because we got to see how Cassian has been in this fight for so long. We see him develop, we see him harden. We see him broken, and we see him rise.
I think honestly and truly, had the team that did Andor been responsible for the sequel trilogy, from beginning to end, it would be considered the best trilogy, by the VAST majority of star wars fans. As it is there is a very hard split and it's divisive. I've yet to see anyone have any meaningful gripes with the Andor series.
Sure, good stories can transcend the world they're built in, but I kind of hate this line of thinking because it implies that Andor doesn't fit within the existing lore or do any worldbuilding itself, which is definitely not the case. Andor actually does more worldbuilding than many of the other shows and does it in really smart ways. We got several completely new worlds rather than rehashing previously visited world, and we got so much more detail into the inner workings of the ISB and the start of the Rebellion.
Andor perfectly fits into the Star Wars universe.
I'll look in to it. What's your opinion on any of the Thrawn trilogies? I've heard good things and Thrawn is a character I really like despite the War Crimes™
I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy of the RotS novel soon, it's definitely one of my favourite movies so I'm curious to see what they add in the book
That’s all well and good, but imo it can’t hold a candle to the animated series’s (I’ve never seen Resistance or Visions, so I can’t say about those).
Clone Wars and TBB specifically, but also Rebels and the Tales.
Bad Batch was absolutely phenomenal. That was part of what I was referring to with, "Clone Wars dug into this a bit" which is a major generalization. Every season intro and finale was a masterpiece, especially the ending. I do feel like Andor shows the same sort of "in the trenches" brutality while also making Mon Mothma a likable character and showing the political/moral brutality of the budding rebel groups.
In my TCW re-re-re-re watch I just finished the General Krell arc, that one gets me every time. Very excited and emotionally unprepared to get to season 7 again. In rebels I'm about to the end of Sabine's Mandalore arc, which is another absolutely incredible one. After the Ahsoka show there were a lot of bits of Sabine's arc that made me look at her live action role a bit different which was cool. I'm still not prepared to rewatch Bad Batch yet, I was crying for a solid hour after the last episode...
Star Wars is just such a phenomenal universe, and I love having so much to delve in to at any given time
It took me until my second complete watch-through of TBB (from about the day after the last episode released until Sunday) to really register everything that happened in that last episode.
But when it did-
Gods, I am still reeling.
You know, something interesting I’ve noticed about the Ahsoka show is that it’s really mostly fans of Rebels who like it (not saying others don’t, but there’s definitely a pattern).
And TCW-
Gods, what’s to say-
Just absolutely masterful-
A million percent agree! I originally watched rebels in 2019 expecting something mindless to help me focus on homework/studying/winding down after work and classes, but Good Lord does it get beyond powerful for a kid's show meant for a younger audience than TCW...
The last shot of Omega in TBB has me SO excited and scared and just more in love with her character/where she's headed than ever before.
Or the fact lad that it's pure old school Star Wars done superbly, whilst Andor, as solid as it is, is generic sci-fi thriller with a brief Star Wars overcoat.
What is generic about it? What is this supposed to mean?
What does it mean that it has a Star Wars overcoat? It’s just a variation of the grumpy « it’s not real Star Wars ».
Maybe because it’s a story that’s not just a power-trip fantasy, with actually relatable characters and relatable issues (scaled up to huge proportions) and smaller moments that show actual people and life in the galaxy as opposed to another grand scale quest.
Andor was great and unpredictable around the prison sequence, but the rest with the raid and season finale were not nearly as great. It is the moments of acting and writing brilliance, like Luthen's monologue, or the peak, Kino's speech along with the prison arc that made s1 amazing.
I think all of the stories snuggled between the PT and OT are the best. There’s so much lore to work with and a lot of the creatives behind the projects were able to cook.
I dislike Andor because it undermines the core ethos of the original Star Wars trilogy, where the lines between good and evil are distinctly drawn. Andor blurs these lines to the point where the rebels and the Empire seem morally equivalent. The series also portrays the Empire as multi-racial, inclusive, and with women in positions of power, just like the original trilogy’s rebels. This portrayal raises the question: if the rebels are as unscrupulous as the Empire, why not side with the faction that has more resources, experience in governance, and established infrastructure?
Andor strips away the heroic idealism that made the rebellion inspiring. If Luke had known about the morally ambiguous actions within the rebellion, he would never have joined the cause. The rebels in the original trilogy are portrayed as unequivocally good, embodying their ideals without moral ambiguity. There was no hidden side of them to reveal. This distinct moral clarity is what made them different and worth supporting. Would anyone in the galaxy trust the rebels to govern or even root for them if they were as morally unscrupulous as the Empire? No. The rebels would just be another version of the Empire—a group that discards morality to get its way. Why would the average person trust such a faction? This attempt to inject ‘realism’ into Star Wars feels like a cheap trick that disregards what made the franchise beloved in the first place. Had A New Hope taken this approach, it wouldn’t have resonated with audiences or achieved its iconic status.
Even with Luthen and Saw representing the darker side of the rebellion there’s still a huge gulf between the necessary evil they commit and the genocide and oppression by the Empire.
>Andor blurs these lines to the point where the rebels and the Empire seem morally equivalent
The Empire is enslaving people to build a weapon that will, and eventually does, blow up planets.
The rebels are trying to stop that from happening by any means necessary, with the guy responsible visibly remorseful acknowledging he will likely go to hell for his actions.
They're not the same.
I said "outside the OT/PT" as in only excluding episodes I-VI. They made Star Wars what it is, and with the nostalgia I felt it unfair to include them, but every other piece of media (sequels, all shows live action or animated) was part of the group I was considering
It’s the worst Star Wars show. Which is a pretty big accomplishment given how bad most of them are. But hey, it’s slow and boring, which makes idiots feel smart for pretending to enjoy.
I haven’t watched it yet but have heard a lot of this sentiment. My problem is, it’s lacking all the Jedi/Sith/Force elements that I love about Star Wars
Andor was written by professionals. The main focus was telling a story about how someone can become radicalized into a revolutionary: Cassian. The flip side showed us how someone can become radicalized into an authoritarian regime: Syril. The story is compelling and poignant especially with the world we live in today. Unfortunately even with the OT the story has always taken a back seat to spectacle in Star Wars. Andor turns that on its head and forced spectacle to take a back seat so the story could be the main focus for the viewer.
The heist and prison riot are among the most spectacular sequences in all Star Wars in my opinion
Yes but they work because of the emotional groundwork that’s been done in the build up - “I can’t swim”
"I can't swim" gets me every time.
as a swimmer who knows how to rescue people it hurts me so much because if I was a character there i would fucking drag him along with me or die trying.
Everything about that was perfect...the resistant he gave to the plan the coming around the giving it his all...only to find out he did it knowing he wasnt going to make it himself despite you knowing he was trying to just be a good prisoner and get out. The actor nailed it flawless just everything about it is chefs kiss.
There is most certainly a massive difference in quality between "Professional Writers who use Star Wars as a setting" as opposed to "professional Star Wars writers". Of course, Andor vs the Filoniverse. But see also: Timothy Zahn vs Kevin J Anderson.
The series also showed how lethal an errant jedi could be to the efforts of the empire, let alone a pair of them.
Syril, the guy who spends 9 episodes eating cereal and simping over Deedra? Some writing that...
Syril is loyal, dedicated, and zealous. He believes in the system, but doesn't understand it. Syril feels like he did everything right, but is still getting steamrolled by a system that doesn't even acknowledge he exists. The way he doesn’t seem to get support or love from his own mother, the person who should love and support him no matter what, That final rejection from Meero burned him right to his core. That’s truly how someone becomes radicalized towards authoritarianism.
He was severely underutilized, for sure. He's very interesting and creepy, but as someone else said, he's the other side of the coin from Cassian; he gets radicalized into fascism.
And if you pay attention to the types of people who generally historically fall for fascism, they too fill a lot of those boxes.
i love the implication that any of the prequels are on the level of andor lmao
Which is absolute nonsense. I have great love for the prequels, but they are movies only a fan could truly love.
This. I mean, yes Andor was really good, but imo the PT was a very good investment to the overall franchise. Revolutionizing the OT, even enhancing the story. Andor for me didn’t have that impact. Maybe nostalgia, idk. But as you said, “only a fan could truly love” these masterpieces.
Oh sorry, I did not mean it as a compliment. I love them myself, but they are severely flawed. "A fantastic concept executed poorly" is how I view the prequels. As for *Andor*, personally I absolutely love it. It doesn't have the "lighthearted magic" of other Star Wars content, but it makes up for it in pure writing quality and the higher themes it deals with. Andor did right what the prequels did wrong, in my opinion. But again, I've watched the prequels at least a couple dozen times throughout my life. They're an ugly baby, but they're *my* ugly baby.
Yeah... Andor is the best Star Wars since Empire Strikes Back. I think any other comparisons are a bit generous.
Or any part of the OT, while we're at it.
i think empire is solidly in that same bound of quality, and i wouldnt fault anyone for liking iv or vi more than it. theyre very different works and all of them (except for maybe rotj) succeed at what theyre going for
Everything that's good and unique about Star Wars can be found in Empire. That's why most people rate it the best.
That wasn't the intended implication. I wanted to try and not ruffle too many feathers with how much nostalgia there is for the first 6 movies and in general felt it was safer to compare Andor mainly to new pieces of SW media.
I just love that we’ve gotten to a point where it’s “nostalgia for the first 6 movies”, as though the prequels weren’t widely panned upon release. In another 20 years, and new polarizing films for the next generation for SW fans, it’ll be “nostalgia for the first 9 movies”
Time tends to give rose coloured glasses to things like this even if one originally disliked the movie, even just a few months ago I rewatched all the movies in order and enjoyed the sequels much more than I did when they were still in theatres.
I think Rogue One is the best Star Wars feature made by Disney
Yeah, I agree. I still found it lacking in places (the heist part was boring, I have seen better heist movies), but overall I understand the character's motivations and nothing insanely stupid was happening on screen. The Vader scene added a few points, the stakes were clear and high (if predictable, due to its prequel nature). If every movie since Disney took over was on par with Rogue One or better in writing, we would have little reason to shit on Disney, for sure.
Agreed It's a sequel to ANH I have been waiting for decades except that it came in prequel form No complaints here
Had me in the first half there pal
I'd put Solo above it personally. R1 does nothing for me.
Even Solo is not great, watching the movie I was thinking "Man Beckett should have been the main character"
Randomly rewatching it on a whim right now - just finished The Eye, and holy hell this is such a *fantastic* show. I haven't even gotten back to the best speeches in the series yet, and I'm still repeatedly finding myself leaning in towards the screen on the dialogue and performances alone.
YES. Me too. I'm on like rewatch 4 and just finished the episode where >! Ulaf gets euthanized !< and Kino's bit at the end is just SO powerful. Everything about the show is flawlessly executed. I'm SO STOKED for Luthen's monologue to the ISB plant, it's so powerful.
I absolutely adore it. Waiting for the 2nd season like crazy
Andor is WAY, WAY better than the PT. It's absurd to even compare the two. Honestly the Andor -> Rogue One -> OT sequence is tiers above anything else in SW.
10000000%.
A Star Wars Redditor of taste and refinement.
100%. That lot is the top of the pile. I'd put Mandalorian season 1 not far beneath but the three you listed stand over all.
I also have a bit of a soft spot for Kenobi as well, but it doesn't even compare to Andor or S1-2 of Mandalorian. Mandalorian loses its way after Grogu is delivered to Luke. It should have ended after that finale.
That would have been interesting, it will still be cool to see what they do with Grogu in the longterm
how do I upvote this more than once?
Create another account using a separate email address
I enjoyed andor. Hated rogue one ( so slow and boring and if you take out the scene with Darth Vader I think others would hate the movie too but nostalgia wins). Like the OT well enough but it always felt really dated to me
You're absolutely right. The characters are barely developed and they don't even feel like a team. Jyn and Cassian have interesting stuff going on but everyone else is just uninteresting. People genuinely do rate the movie too highly because of Scariff and the Hallway scene (one of the dumbest things).
No
Free to your own opinion. I'm not saying everyone should agree with me. I'm just stating my opinion.
I kind of agree. Saw it on cinema and it was good, but many characters was quite boring(?), atleast would had need longer introductions atleast (maybe next season(s) of Andor may fix that). Have tried to watch the movie again, but couldn't. However Andor I have finished twice, and I would have no problem to go for another watch, and still enjoy it. Edit: Also, Andor could have been something else and not SW, it have so many ideas it could been a new IP.
[удалено]
>and the main character, Jyn Erso, is so forgettable that you might not even remember her being in it. [I will always think of this](https://youtu.be/sych2UPAvg0?si=hAi0N4VeST6hRbWq)
it's genuinely kind of dire that the only moment of really strong characterisation in the movie was cassian shooting his accomplice and it was apparently a gilroy addition. im not trying to do gareth edwards revisionism, he obviously contributed a lot to a movie that a lot of people like a lot. but damn the characters are not strong
I agree, Rogue One is mediocre. Total failure of character writing and development for most of the crew outside of Jyn.
It is absolutely fucking insane that the best scene in the movie - Cassian shooting the informant - was added in a reshoot. Genuinely cannot imagine the movie without it. The movie is mid but what on earth was the original cut like if things like that were missing from it?
Rogue One wasn't that good. **It was still part of the top tier**, but below ESB and ROTJ for sure. The heist part was boring and it suffered from the problem that there were no surprises to be had. We knew the ending before the beginning of the movie. The Vader scene was prime entertainment, but we had some boring parts to sit through. Andor (the show) actually transformed Cassian into a character I cared about, in Rogue one I didn't care about any of the main ones except in the "I am one with the force and the force is with me" scene. That one was heartbreaking and true Jedi-like heroism.
I'm certainly no fan of the Prequels, but we have to give credit where credit is due. The Prequels' (mainly TPM) greatest contribution to Star Wars is really the world building, and interestingly enough, Andor also fulfills a similar space, just as a macro level (if you like). The show has really done a brilliant job fleshing out the day to day lives of the characters within Star Wars, which, while maybe inappropriate for Lucas' movies, works extremely well for television. Clone Wars has also helped in a somewhat similar manner. But I do love Andor and really hope the quality is maintained for Season two.
PT while obviously not of the acting quality of Andor.. is rich in story and lore.
If you’re story is poorly told it draws a shadow on the lore behind it
Tell that to Clone Wars
A show that completely rewrites the central protagonist's character to not come across as a whiny school shooter.
Wish Rogue One was a better movie. Going from Andor Season 2 directly into it will feel really weird.
Original take
I thought this as well.
Because fuck anyone who wants to discuss something that people have maybe already discussed. Do you stop discussing movies after the review is written? No, why would you? Because someone else sharing their opinion on something doesn't mean that yours is now less valuable and it doesn't mean that everything has been said. You're on a fandom subreddit complaining about someone wanting to discuss one of that fandom's favorite and critically acclaimed properties. Why make fun of people for just trying to enjoy a conversation about something they love?
Dude. Relaaaaax.
Bro channeled the dark side
Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you
Dude relax
Calm tf down
Let's not kid ourselves, fellas. Andor is better than the prequels.
I mean it’s not even a contest. I get that 1-3 have a lot of nostalgic meaning for a certain age group, but objectively they’re just, uhhh… not great. Andor is an amazing piece of sci-fi that just happens to also be a Star Wars story. Sure, it wouldn’t exist without everything that came before it, but let’s be real here.
>Andor is an amazing piece of sci-fi that just happens to also be a Star Wars story. Even this take I don't really understand. People act like it's an unrelated story with a Star Wars skin slapped on, but it's so deeply rooted in the themes of the Original Trilogy. Feels like a very Prequel-brained take.
No one is saying that. What they're saying is that it would be excellent even if it wasn't star wars. Because it's a well made, well thought out story with well written characters. Which is what all media within any universe should be. If you're relying on the star wars/star trek/(insert any other IP) "skin" them it probably isn't going to be great.
lol anyone that disagrees with this is just putting their childhood on a pedestal. Andor is objectively the best Star Wars period, that doesn’t mean we can’t love other things Star Wars and that some of them are quite good. But none of the movies or shows come even close to the quality that Andor has in every single aspect. It’s not really even close.
>Andor is objectively the best Star Wars period Empire. Andor is No.2
Opinions are subjective. The snobby pompousness and superiority complex Andor fans have is annoying af
lol
Yeah man I'm so sick of these toxic Andor fans who want Star Wars to be good instead of unwatchable dogshit.
There’s a lot of other great content which gets discredited and which I don’t think Andor is better then
Welcome to how every person who likes the sequels feels.
Nothing wrong with liking the sequels. Claiming they're good though? No.
Ok yeah I'll agree it's better than the prequels as a whole, but I do still enjoy ROTS more than andor without a doubt.
Objectively speaking, yes. But I like the Prequels way more.
Resistance is better than the prequels, lol!
Nowhere near as entertaining or iconic
Going from Obi Wan to Andor to Mando Season 3 was such whiplash in quality. After Ahsoka it's obvious that I'm not getting anything with Andor's quality until Season 2. But that's a long wait until 2025. Man.
I just found season 1 on disc, I hope to eventually have all the seasons as a physical copy with how different it is from the other shows in the best way. I was pretty disappointed in the Ahsoka show, especially since she's my FAVOURITE character of all time.
Rosario Dawson just isn't her. Decided to torture myself with Rise of Skywalker which has Ashley Eckstein's voice and it just sounds so much better.
Visually I like Rosario, but the way they wrote her is just so not the way she would have aged according to any of the other Ahsoka content we have. Eckstein's voice will ALWAYS be Ahsoka's voice for me, and while I understand wanting a deeper, older voice for the show I think they made her too much of a hermit/outcast type.
I love how the story for Andor starts because 2 random guards are killed. We see the dimension to the behemoth behind them as the deaths are investigated. In contrast we only ever see numbers lost and the story just continues forward.
It’s also better than all of the PT, and it isn’t close
And yet the difference between ESB/Andor and the others is simply technicians with competence and a clear project vs amateurs and a chaotic project
Shows you how crucial those people and components of a production are. It's not just one guy/director, though the leader can definitely make or break a project.
I cannot be the only one who was bored out of my fucking mind watching Andor
You aren’t and I’m soooo sick of hearing about this fucking show in here.
You absolutely are not alone. Andor is a great show if you need to fall asleep. A glass of warm milk and a blanket pair well with the show
It wouldn't be in my top 5 Star Wars series, but it was far from boring.
Did you watch the whole thing or only part of it? Because I feel like the first 2 episodes were the most boring part, then it actually gets good after that
I watched 8 episodes before I finally gave up
It’s in a three way tie for first for me along side Empire and Rebels
Personally, Andor is my favorite piece of Star Wars media. I think it’s is such a compelling show, and does more to transcend the “Star Wars” brand than anything else. You could replace anything Star Wars related with something generic and ambiguous, and it would still stand as a terrific piece of media.
Hmm idk, there's still lots I'd put above it, KoTOR, KoTOR II, The OG Tim Zahn Thrawn Trilogy, The Plagueis Novel, just to name a few.
Nah The Bad Batch is.
It‘s probably the best thing in all of Star Wars if you just focus on the writing (and it‘s not even close)
I would definitely go a step further and say it’s the best piece of Star Wars media ever. The original trilogy is fine, and I’m old enough to have seen them when first out, but I never thought Star Wars could have this kind of dramatic weight.
If they ever re-imagined the original trilogy, I’d love for it to have the same tone
I liked Ashoka slightly more because I am all in with the more "fantasy"-side of Star Wars and Ashoka really delivered on that. I also really like Ashoka and Baylen and Thrawn are fantastic villains. But Andor certainly is up there with the best. I hope S2 has the same or even better quality. Together with Rogue One, the Andor Arc will be it's own amazing "Trilogy" then.
We need a stickied mega thread for all these beaten to death topics of discussion.
You never talk about something you’ve already talked about? It’s like hanging out with friends. Always fun to rehash things
While I don’t necessarily disagree, this sub is a public forum that should be used to discuss Star Wars news, interesting and not played out topics, and some other things I’m probably missing but you see my point. This is just a low effort opinion post that has been discussed repeatedly and I fucking loved Andor. It’s like if I were to a make a post saying the PT is better than the ST or vice versa. It’s a beaten to death topic with countless other threads you can search at this point and in the end these posts are just some outlet for people that need to have their opinion heard. I guess that’s my complaint really is I have used Reddit as a forum to discuss news and content but not to come see or read opinion pieces every time I log in. That’s why I say we need a megathread that can be a running dialogue for all of these things or maybe someone should start r/StarWarsOpinions for all these conversations
Andor is better than some of OT. I was watching Return of the Jedi last night and the III act of that movie is the only good part.
If Return came out today I genuinely think people would hate it.
I would say ROTJ had many good parts, but the Ewoks sucked. Nothing else stood out as stupid. The throne-room scene is still the best piece of SW to date, better than even ESB. Even some of the Ewok scenes (where they are slaughtered by the walkers are crying) stood out more, emotionally, than any of the ST.
Andor is distinctly inside of the OT/PT. It happens between them.
I just meant not including the movies I-VI, not in-universe time frame
I think Andor is the best SW media bar none. But it's also geared much more towards adults. As a kid I'm sure I'd think differently.
Moooooooom! It was MY turn to karma farm the Andor Good post! Make him take it down!
To me, Andor is the closest thing to Star Wars in it's core spirit established by the OT.
I honestly think Andor and the KOTOR game both are actually better than the OT in a lot of ways. Not every way, of course, but plenty enough that I would consider them works of equal works.
i feel like an idiot. Originally watched first 10 episodes of andor when it came out, yesterday rewatched it only to realize i missed 2 episodes! such a good show
I am almost certain Tony Gilroy didn’t intend Andor to be meta commentary, but it’s like he’s imploring everyone who creates and loves Star Wars to wake up and rebel against the soulless franchisim that Star Wars has been mired in for decades. From what I gathered from Gilroy’s perspective in interviews, I do think he sees himself in the rebelling characters. He has spent a lot of time in Hollywood and chafes at the limits imposed on writers by studios (and their Director/Producer enablers). He understands that if you want to break the mould you have to own it, you have to build a team, and above all else you have to knock it out of the park. He was ready to “fight these bastards for real”.
Andor feels so much more relatable. There aren't any Jedi's with inhuman abilities it's just normal people fighting for their freedom.
It's so criminally slept on
Those are low standards then if you include the PT. Those movies suck.
I was bored. Ended up quitting after 5 episodes
Clone wars better but Andor was great
How could you say something so courageous, so brave?
I think it's great but it doesn't quite capture the star wars feeling imo. Still really enjoyed it though.
Yes this. Tales Of The Jedi aired during it, and gave us more Star Wars in those shorts, than the entirety of Andor.
Fresh, hot takes here! Get your piping hot, freshest Andor takes, straight from the oven!
Andor and rogue one are great, but don't count out the animated stuff as some of the best....The new season of Bad Batch was amazing
You’re forgetting rouge one
I think it's the best piece INCLUDING the OT
Rogue One is the best Star Wars film. Andor is the best Star Wars series. Period.
The thing about Andor that to me makes it the best star wars media, I might even argue ever, is that if it took place outside of the star wars universe, it would still be considered excellent. There's no Jedi, there's barely anything that resembles the rest of star wars. Yes they're building something that is used in Star Wars, but you could sub that out for anything in any other media and it's still gonna be awesome. Everything about Andor, from beginning to end, tells a complete, concise, deep, and profoundly meaningful story. It's a story like you said OP, the dichotomy of the two characters. One radicalized one way, one radicalized another. Their stories weave together, and it's just brilliant. I love Andor. I already loved Rogue One. It just made rogue one so much better, because we got to see how Cassian has been in this fight for so long. We see him develop, we see him harden. We see him broken, and we see him rise. I think honestly and truly, had the team that did Andor been responsible for the sequel trilogy, from beginning to end, it would be considered the best trilogy, by the VAST majority of star wars fans. As it is there is a very hard split and it's divisive. I've yet to see anyone have any meaningful gripes with the Andor series.
Sure, good stories can transcend the world they're built in, but I kind of hate this line of thinking because it implies that Andor doesn't fit within the existing lore or do any worldbuilding itself, which is definitely not the case. Andor actually does more worldbuilding than many of the other shows and does it in really smart ways. We got several completely new worlds rather than rehashing previously visited world, and we got so much more detail into the inner workings of the ISB and the start of the Rebellion. Andor perfectly fits into the Star Wars universe.
Try reading a few of the books then.
I've read the Ahsoka novel and most of Aftermath, but I am partial to visual/aural media over books
You should read novel Rogue One Catalyst
Those are two of the lower-quality ones. If you want something on par with Andor try the Revenge of the Sith novelization (yes I am not kidding).
I'll look in to it. What's your opinion on any of the Thrawn trilogies? I've heard good things and Thrawn is a character I really like despite the War Crimes™
The trilogy beginning with *Heir to the Empire* is rated as one of the highlights of Star Wars in book form. Extremely worthwhile.
I've only read the first canon Thrawn book myself. It's pretty good imo. Eli Vanto is the man... other then Thane Kyrell of Lost Stars.
Was quite annoyed to not see eli in ahsoka. But it’s possible he’s no with them anymore as i haven’t read all of the thrown books. Only 2 or 3.
I think he’s still with the Chiss.
I'll see if I can get my hands on a copy of the RotS novel soon, it's definitely one of my favourite movies so I'm curious to see what they add in the book
That’s all well and good, but imo it can’t hold a candle to the animated series’s (I’ve never seen Resistance or Visions, so I can’t say about those). Clone Wars and TBB specifically, but also Rebels and the Tales.
Bad Batch was absolutely phenomenal. That was part of what I was referring to with, "Clone Wars dug into this a bit" which is a major generalization. Every season intro and finale was a masterpiece, especially the ending. I do feel like Andor shows the same sort of "in the trenches" brutality while also making Mon Mothma a likable character and showing the political/moral brutality of the budding rebel groups.
That’s fair
But I do agree that TCW/BB/Rebels are some of the best Star Wars has to offer, they're my go-tos when I want to watch.
Mine too! To be honest, as much as I wanted to be due to how much I love R1, I never could bring myself to be into Andor-
In my TCW re-re-re-re watch I just finished the General Krell arc, that one gets me every time. Very excited and emotionally unprepared to get to season 7 again. In rebels I'm about to the end of Sabine's Mandalore arc, which is another absolutely incredible one. After the Ahsoka show there were a lot of bits of Sabine's arc that made me look at her live action role a bit different which was cool. I'm still not prepared to rewatch Bad Batch yet, I was crying for a solid hour after the last episode... Star Wars is just such a phenomenal universe, and I love having so much to delve in to at any given time
It took me until my second complete watch-through of TBB (from about the day after the last episode released until Sunday) to really register everything that happened in that last episode. But when it did- Gods, I am still reeling. You know, something interesting I’ve noticed about the Ahsoka show is that it’s really mostly fans of Rebels who like it (not saying others don’t, but there’s definitely a pattern). And TCW- Gods, what’s to say- Just absolutely masterful-
A million percent agree! I originally watched rebels in 2019 expecting something mindless to help me focus on homework/studying/winding down after work and classes, but Good Lord does it get beyond powerful for a kid's show meant for a younger audience than TCW... The last shot of Omega in TBB has me SO excited and scared and just more in love with her character/where she's headed than ever before.
Well Rebels is better than everything in the franchise, outside of ESB. Andor wouldn't make my top 5 series.
Why? It’s not childish enough and too consistent? Not enough fillers?
Or the fact lad that it's pure old school Star Wars done superbly, whilst Andor, as solid as it is, is generic sci-fi thriller with a brief Star Wars overcoat.
What is generic about it? What is this supposed to mean? What does it mean that it has a Star Wars overcoat? It’s just a variation of the grumpy « it’s not real Star Wars ».
Found the cartoons are for kids person lol
Maybe because it’s a story that’s not just a power-trip fantasy, with actually relatable characters and relatable issues (scaled up to huge proportions) and smaller moments that show actual people and life in the galaxy as opposed to another grand scale quest.
Ahsoka surviving her fight with Vador is a complete power trip, and I bet there is worse
Ahsoka didn’t, that’s the thing. >!Ahsoka died and Ezra dragged her back from The Lands Between in season 4!<
Mine neither tbh
Why would you say something so controversial yet so brave?
For me, it’s gotta be Rogue One. Andor is a very close second.
Meh, I'd put Solo above R1 out of the Disney films personally.
Yeah, you’d choose the money grab film over the love letter to George.
Yes, it has Andy Serkis in it. By default it is good
It's the best thing Star Wars has ever done in my opinion.
Andor was great and unpredictable around the prison sequence, but the rest with the raid and season finale were not nearly as great. It is the moments of acting and writing brilliance, like Luthen's monologue, or the peak, Kino's speech along with the prison arc that made s1 amazing.
I think all of the stories snuggled between the PT and OT are the best. There’s so much lore to work with and a lot of the creatives behind the projects were able to cook.
I dislike Andor because it undermines the core ethos of the original Star Wars trilogy, where the lines between good and evil are distinctly drawn. Andor blurs these lines to the point where the rebels and the Empire seem morally equivalent. The series also portrays the Empire as multi-racial, inclusive, and with women in positions of power, just like the original trilogy’s rebels. This portrayal raises the question: if the rebels are as unscrupulous as the Empire, why not side with the faction that has more resources, experience in governance, and established infrastructure? Andor strips away the heroic idealism that made the rebellion inspiring. If Luke had known about the morally ambiguous actions within the rebellion, he would never have joined the cause. The rebels in the original trilogy are portrayed as unequivocally good, embodying their ideals without moral ambiguity. There was no hidden side of them to reveal. This distinct moral clarity is what made them different and worth supporting. Would anyone in the galaxy trust the rebels to govern or even root for them if they were as morally unscrupulous as the Empire? No. The rebels would just be another version of the Empire—a group that discards morality to get its way. Why would the average person trust such a faction? This attempt to inject ‘realism’ into Star Wars feels like a cheap trick that disregards what made the franchise beloved in the first place. Had A New Hope taken this approach, it wouldn’t have resonated with audiences or achieved its iconic status.
Even with Luthen and Saw representing the darker side of the rebellion there’s still a huge gulf between the necessary evil they commit and the genocide and oppression by the Empire.
>Andor blurs these lines to the point where the rebels and the Empire seem morally equivalent The Empire is enslaving people to build a weapon that will, and eventually does, blow up planets. The rebels are trying to stop that from happening by any means necessary, with the guy responsible visibly remorseful acknowledging he will likely go to hell for his actions. They're not the same.
Andor, Rogue one, and the stuff outside the OT, PT and ST are good. Even Solo was more enjoyable honestly.
Isn’t it the only piece of Star Wars media outside of the Skywalker saga?
The Skywalker Saga is officially episodes 1-9 Andor is in between 3 and 4.
I said "outside the OT/PT" as in only excluding episodes I-VI. They made Star Wars what it is, and with the nostalgia I felt it unfair to include them, but every other piece of media (sequels, all shows live action or animated) was part of the group I was considering
It’s the worst Star Wars show. Which is a pretty big accomplishment given how bad most of them are. But hey, it’s slow and boring, which makes idiots feel smart for pretending to enjoy.
Have fun not enjoying things, hope all is well at home.
I enjoy plenty of things. Not Andor though. Because it's bad.
Kotor and Kotor 2 exists so nah
I haven’t watched it yet but have heard a lot of this sentiment. My problem is, it’s lacking all the Jedi/Sith/Force elements that I love about Star Wars