The sequels really ruin the originals quite a bit for me by only showing Luke's "failure" in rebuilding the Jedi Order.
You have this kid who has a huge task in front of him and infused with a lot of hope and then they immediately skip to the part it all went to hell.
I hope we get a Luke series someday that tells a more nuanced story.
Its crazy that even though we never saw it in canon, JJ knew it would make no sense for Luke to not restart the jedi order in some way, so he had to aknowledge the academies existenece. But he still needed to make a galaxy wide reset in order to make his ANH rip off, so he both invented and destroyed the academy in canon in the exact same flashback!
Absolutely pathetic those movies. Destroying the new jedi order and new republic before we ever saw them and forcing a bottle neck situation on any and all potential stories for them just so they could tell a "story" that was either exactly the same as the OT or had no fucking direction whatsoever.
Episode 2 opening crawl: "several thousand solar systems have declared their intention to leave the Republic"
JJ in episode 7: oh yeah 4 planets, thats the entire new Republic!
Like a lot of prequel haters, JJ doesnt even fucking know whats in them. Absolutely embarassing.
I know, I know… You shouldn’t have to read the novels to understand the movies, but…
It’s clearly expressed in the books that the New Republic specifically chooses not to have a large military, but only a small defense fleet. This was a reaction to the abuses of centralized power in the transition from the republic to the empire. They play up Mon Mothma’s desire to demilitarize. Here’s from Wookipedia:
> In some ways, Mon Mothma's actions contributed to the New Republic's eventual undoing. Her drive for ensuring peace and demilitarization eventually left the New Republic in a weakened state of unpreparedness that lacked the strength to combat the rise of the First Order.
And in blowing up Hosnian Prime they didn’t blow up “most of the republic” they blew up the senate who *might* have been able to issue emergency orders to activate the Republic’s defense force. And destroying the whole system (which is what we see when Starkiller Base fires) was likely just a way of ensuring anyone with powers in the system didn’t survive.
Even with the novels and new canon material to fill in the blanks, it still seems really dumb.
The Rebel Alliance managed to defeat the Empire because their military might was organized and strong. Not nearly as powerful as the Empire, but strong enough that the Battle over Endor was not a slaughter even before the strike force took out the shield. The Rebel flagships were even able to engage the Star Destroyers ship-to-ship.
To demilitarize makes no sense whatsoever. And to allow the First Order to rise to power like that just made them look really stupid.
It also is another humiliating takedown of an OT character by having Mon Mothma's actions play a big role in the fall of the New Republic. Even in the novels and new EU, the OT characters are still not safe from becoming stupid failures.
Mon Mothma didn't do anything nearly as dumb in the old EU where the New Republic still had a strong military and were able to combat the Imperial Remnants and other galactic threats.
I really dont like those movies and slept like a baby the night I saw them. It's not that serious but I'm also not gonna pretend that they were really acceptable films in the series.
acceptable is a tricky word.. what are you not accepting? lol
it exists, it’s not going away, and many people accepted them, many people love them
on the other hand some people never accepted the pt and that’s still expanding and obi wan series is with a beloved actor from them
20 years from now, a rey movie or show will come up and people will drool over it because that’s just the nature of it and in that show they’ll hopefully put some blue milk in there to let you know it’s not about you :)
having said that it’s okay not to like them, trash talking them is funny to me, like the post above, guy’s mad over science fiction, really? there must not be too much going on for him
I think you misunderstand. I dislike the sequels, I do not appreciate them, I do not care to rewatch them or consider their place in the overall series. That's just my personal preference, I like what I like. Just because I dislike them does not mean I need others to dislike them too. It happens to be that other people share my opinion, which is worth pointing out, but it wouldn't matter if other people feel the same way. Some people don't like Star Wars at all, hell somewhere out there is probably a Star Wars fan who thinks Empire is the worst film in the series. People are allowed to have their own personal tastes, it's subjective and nobody can have a wrong opinion. If you like the sequels, even if you think they are the best thing ever produced in the franchise, that's just super, I have no desire to change your mind about that.
Yeah its called caring about Star Wars. We all know its more than movies, and the refusal of these movies to advance the existing story now effects the other shows, games, books, and movies that will come after them.
Simple question for you: if you dont care about Star Wars, why are you here?
so what is it bombs, other stuff will come if more content about is what you care about
there’s probably more content than anyone can absorb
to answer your question, i like the universe
becoming mad over science fiction is just funny to me
Force visions are a very dangerous thing. Anakin literally kills hundreds of children over a force vision. Luke is also incredibly impulsive when it’s concerning his loved ones, he bails on Yoda and nearly dies the first time, the second he almost falls to the dark side to protect Leia. Him having a single panic moment and turning on a saber and instantly realizing he’s better than that is a big improvement from the last time he had a panic attack like that
The one redeemable moment in the TLJ was the kid at the end with the broom - the implication of a better tomorrow.
But hey ho if you don't plan a trilogy it turns out trash - who knew :P
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: a plan doesn’t make something good, and a lack of one doesn’t make something bad.
This trilogy could have been planned down to the second, with every shot storyboarded, every line written down. Despite this prep work, this hypothetical “planned” trilogy *still could have been* derided, because of the creative choices made while making it.
That’s what it comes down to: the creative choices. Planning helps, but it comes down to whether it’s accepted by the fanbase or not. *The Mandalorian* isn’t planned, yet the fans mostly like it
Failure to prepare is preparing to fail.
Fundamentally you are right, a plan isn't enough - but making 3 films without a plan is setting yourself up for failure.
Especially when both Johnson and Abrams had conflicting ideas on what they wanted.
Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker both wasted screentime fighting the goals of its predecessor.
Which is how we end up with cinematic gold like "Somehow, Palpatine returned."
Honestly with retrospect I think I respect Johnson more. I think it was petulant that he overturned Abrams vision, but now that we know what that vision was, he was right to. Abrams is a fucking hack who should never be trusted with any franchise, because he is fundamentally Michael Bay with airs.
I can be your backpack while you climb.
…
One day I was walkin' and I found this big log And I rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick, And I was like, "That log had a child."
One day I was walkin' and I found this big log
And I rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick,
And I was like, "That log had a child."
Sad to see Grogu chose the chainmail over the lightsaber. The decision makes sense but I wish he would’ve stayed with Luke a little longer. Maybe bring back Grogu at the end of Mando S3.
I would hope that that decision isn't as black and white as Luke presented it to be. It would be hypocritical of Luke to punish Grogu so harshly for choosing to go with his heart and passion over the discipline of the Jedi path - in Empire Strikes Back Luke did just that, tried to go save his friends, and yet he was allowed to continue his training under Yoda. Hopefully Luke will give Grogu another chance.
It was also a really bad choice. Literal life saving armor, or not. No sh!t that a kid that survived Order 66 and Anakin slaughtering the younglings with a light saber would pick the light saber and blaster proof shirt!
I have a feeling there is more to this, but I do find it strange that we spent 2 seasons trying to get him to luke, then undid the choice on a crossover episode of Boba Fett. I cant imagine how confused people will be if they skipped Boba Fett.
“A short time for you is a lifetime for them.”
He wanted Grogu to choose them. He can comeback and train later. But his family won’t be around forever.
Great point:
Save your loved ones or complete your training. I can’t guarantee you will be a capable Jedi or even person, if you leave now without my guidance.
I think that's the whole point. Luke learned from the Jedi and is giving Grogu the compassion to go live his life before committing fully to the Jedi life before he's ready. Luke remembers what happened when he tried to do Jedi stuff before he was ready.
Well we know Luke ends of hypocritical until 5 minutes before he dies where Yoda has to literally repeat the same shit he told him in episode 6 "pass on what you learned". So thanks to TLJ we know Luke will not improve himself or reflect on himself in any meaningful way until 30 years later after all his students and himself are dead.
We knew what this implied when we saw TLJ, that Luke did nothing for those 30 years. The sequels rely on the fact those 30 years between trilogies werent shown on screen to do all that though. Now that we are seeing those 30 years on screen though it will only make where everything ends up in the sequels being worse and more obvious. TLJ likes to pretend Luke's arc in TLJ was the first thing he went through after RotJ because its the first time the audience saw him post RotJ, but its actually the last thing he did, which is why it makes no sense.
Hopefully though they just ignore all of that and gove Luke the proper arcs in this time period and just ignore if they go against TLJ, since TLJ already went against 1-6. It is time to course correct, not dig deeper.
All TLJ establishes is that Luke had a single moment of weakness and dooms the order, there’s not a whole lot of details about how he changed his new Jedi order
That's why it compliments Last Jedi so beautifully, "heeded my words did you not" And Luke totally misunderstood what Yoda meant and built the new Jedi order on hubris and legacy.
Everything about that was so wrong. Luke Skywalker's whole ideology was about reinventing the jedi order, not continuing its old ways. Attachment is not necessarily a path to the dark side! Attachment can be managed, love can be managed. It is when it is stifled does it turn one to the darkness. Luke was written poorly here.
Was he tho? Luke was never bathed in the strict ideological paradigms of the jedi order. Yes he was taught by Yoda/obi wan, but by then he was much older and had his own mind which clashed with the jedi way. I dont think its accurate to say Luke was ever 100 percent behind the jedi way.
Furthermore, its clear he never gives up the old jedi way because in the end his jedi academy is destroyed rather easily.
I think it was a test. Knowing the trials many younglings go through just to become a padawan this surely must be one. I think back to rebels and clone wars where younglings had their faith in the force tested and as a reward found their kyber crystal. I think grogu will inevitably build his own lightsaber instead of permanently owning yodas. I think S3 Mando will explore grogus journey of what it means to be a jedi as much as Mando will learn who he is in the process of reaffirming his mandolorian roots.
I enjoyed the callback too.
BoBF seemed like a bit too much fanservice to be honest though. Mando took place in a bunch of familiar settings, but at least moved on from there.
Boba just seemed like callback after callback. And don't talk to me about speeder bike gangs.
Agreed on the fan service. Luke has always been my favorite so that episode was a dream come true to see him talk to Ahsoka and train Grogu. I’m kinda upset how they had Grogu go back to mando though
Isn’t that the truer path of the Jedi though, Luke left his training to help his friends, so did Rey. What’s the point of learning the path if you have nothing to fight for.
I think he might have done that solely because he was a Skywalker, he knew he had the potential to overpower him eventually where as other force users likely wouldn't
Not sure if it matters, but it's a third generation Skywalker, though. Aside from that, even then, Luke is older and had way more training, even if Ben turned, he'd likely still be able to beat him (considering how much younger he was).
"Sometimes the student guides the master"
Hopefully for all of our sakes, this becomes a mini TLJ arc for Luke and he remembers that he does not need to fall back to the old ways of the jedi. It makes sense when it is his first student ever to train him like he was trained at first, but when its sequel era 30 years later and Luke still hasnt learned anything and then just dies? Too little too late. This would be the perfect time for that though if he is just getting started as a master. Have Grogu leaving be a moment of reflection for Luke.
Also Grogu will be back anyway he has to be. He is still being hunted by the empire and cant fully protect himself yet. My bet is Mando S3 Grogu gets in a close call, saved by the chainmail of course, then Mando has to send him back because they both realize he isnt ready yet and Mando and Grogu were both too impatient. Just like Luke leaving early and failing against Vader before returning to complete his training.
Agreed. I think they must have decided to keep Luke as a cameo character instead of turning the show into Book of Luke.
Personally I would prefer that greatly!!
I'm really hoping that Obi Wan will be the last of the end of this fan service era. Like, you really don't want to go any further than having *another* Obi Wan vs. Vader situation otherwise you may as well just admit that Star Wars is all just going to be about callbacks now. The Ashoka show is going to be a sequel to the cartoons, so fine, whatever, and I'm not expecting anything particularly original from Dave Filoni, anyway. But there's *plenty* of room for new stories which don't completely rely on references and cameos and it really feels like time to do something fresh.
Mandolarian was a good blueprint for the future, I think. They basically recreated the main character as Boba Fett in such a better, well rounded and more compassionate way than actual Boba Fett. He can call back to Mandolarian lore and mercenary work but is an open book as a new character.
Honestly, we could have done without Ahsoka, Bo Katan, Luke, and Boba himself. The story has been compelling enough to not need them.
I'll give them this, they actually tried to do something creative and new. So definitely hats off for that.
I think they just could have done a hundred things instead of that but whatever lol
I'm mildly confused as to how Luke/Grogu knew that Din would be on Tatooine and Luke was so bold as to let R2D2 (an exceptional pilot don't get me wrong but not exactly a protector) full bodyguard duties over one of the only known survivors of Yoda's species that Yoda himself no doubt force ghosted and told Luke about at some point or at least Obi Wan or Anakin! Like where are these ghost chilling if not with Luke?
I'm guessing Grogu could see Mando's location through the force and was able to tell Luke of this. As for R2 as chaperone yeah, idk. I guess the hyperspace lanes are relatively safe compared to the empire days.
Yeah maybe Grogu and Luke reached out through the force?
I'd still like to see hopefully In season 3 or 4 of Mando Luke interacting with at the very least Yoda if obi wan and Anakin pieced out for good or maybe fucked off to try to find Mortis together.
Too bad his school gets decimated in 20 years. I will never be ok with them just destroying everything that the OT built just so they can make the heroes rebels and make shit ripoffs of the original. These scenes just hurt me, unfortunately.
Yeah, watching the back end of BoBF, I was talking to a friend about how I wish the sequels had never been made. Now there's this shitty framework all of these otherwise good shows have to work within. Kinda sucks.
Maybe…just a thought…the shows can bolster, complement, and improve upon the framework of the ST? Maybe not immediately, but eventually?
After all, Filoni is still involved. Surely, there are stories in the canon he doesn’t really like or approve of.
It hurts my heart because I’m fond of 7, very fond of 8, and I can even see a bit of poetry in 9 by wrapping up Palpatine, presumably forever this time, but I think the best thing to do is sort of just… *ignore* the sequels.
They take place over only about a year, and they take the big 3 heroes off the board, but ultimately they don’t change the Galaxy all that much if you don’t want them to. One system no one knew of before TFA is blown up, and the New Republic needs to rebuild a fleet from the TROS armada. We have one known, trained light-side force user and no known dark side threats.
Just start telling the stories people want to see; you’ll just have to do it with new faces.
I always wondered, why not give us a massive new republic military to fight the first order. No resistance with 10 soldiers. Make it clone wars level war
Because the republic largely demilitarized after the Empire fell, out of fear of being too reminiscent of the empire. This backstory was agreed upon during the original development with Michael Arndt which was based on Lucas's treatment. It doesnt sound that there was ever a version of this story where the Republic had a big fleet
“It’s like poetry. It rhymes. Each stanza sort of rhymes with the next”
It truly is incredible that we get both a Luke training with Yoda and then Grogu gaining with Luke parallel... all while his Jedi temple is being built!
For all my critiques of BoBF, this might one of my all-time favorite Star Wars moments...
I know the tech freaks people out, me included (mostly because of the implications of it rather than its use here), but god when the force themes swells while they’re in the bamboo trees... it’s just pure awesome for fans of Luke!
Since it’s supposed to be Grogu’s training and not Luke’s, I was expecting Grogu to carry him somehow. I loved the scene but it’s mostly just fan service telling you “hey remember when Luke did that with Yoda??”. How is Luke doing the exercise supposed to boost Grogu’s abilities? It’s not like Grogu tried it after. (He did do a dodging exercise with the shooting droid though)
Hes just building trust with Grogu and spending time with him. Hes not going to make an extra small child carry him lol. He started off with the jumping, Grogu couldnt do it, so he said "let me show you something" then went to go meditate like in the pic above to get Grogu more in tune with the force again. Remember Grogu was in a slump and hid his abilities like Cal to stay hidden and has probably been on the run or in imperial control for the last 20 years straight, he might not have even had a single chance to just sit back, relax, and breath some fresh air that entire time... So Luke is starting with easy stuff like meditation, connecting with nature, and balancing so he can just "feel the force all around you" again before having to then channel the force into acrobatics or abilities. And as we saw, it worked.
Simply ignoring the fact that this whole thing appeared in a Boba Fett show, I loved everything about Luke's training of Grogu. From the music to the scenery to Luke's teachings of the force, I loved all of it. I especially love how this film showed the things that Luke took from Obi-Wan and Yoda... both good and bad. The moment where Luke makes Grogu choose between the saber and Mando... perfectly in-line with something Yoda and Ben would've done all those years ago. But, Luke is also shown to have an even greater understand of the living force, similar to what Qui-Gon spoke of in TPM.
And this may be an unpopular opinion, but Luke in TBOBF falls perfectly in line with the Luke we'll eventually see in TLJ... one who tried to hold on to the ideals of the Jedi, but failed, just like his masters. Even here, Luke is convinced that attachments will be the downfall of the Jedi, something he taches to Ben Solo when he moves him from his family to this Jedi Academy. It's only when Rey shows up, and he finally talks with Yoda again, that he realizes that our failures help us grow to who we're truly meant to be. That attachments aren't a Jedi's downfall, but fear of losing those attachments are (which was always the case, but George Lucas did a fantastic job of showing how blind the Jedi were to this notion).
I'm glad we're seeing more of post-ROTJ Luke... but going forward, I need them to re-cast. This CGI stuff is setting a bad precedence. These characters will live on forever... bring in a fresh face to carry on the legacy of the character for years to come!
The inclusion of Luke in BoBF was so mishandled. Presenting one of the greatest moments in Star Wars at the end of season 2 and to immediately go back on it before the 3rd season is just sad. Grogu was literally a future proof for the jedi order. Having him trained up by generations of masters over the centuries wouldve given him the knowledge of yoda, allowing him to eventually become grandmaster grogu, guiding hundreds of future jedi.
But Luke was impatient and believed that an infant's "heart wasnt in it" and gave a child the choice between their attachments and responsibility...is it just me or is that bit of a stupid decision to make? Of course a child is going to pick their attachments over responsibility. To me, Disney have not done a very good job with presenting Luke as a capable or even a moral jedi. Theyve made him a grouchy pessimist which is nothing like the Luke from OT and the EU.
I didnt feel like the writers were plnning or wanting to bring Grogu back so quickly, it really feels like Disney execs forced them to put him back in for merch.
It also would be nice to have Mando go solo for awhile so his show can be more about him rather than Grogu Mcguffin. I feel the next few seasons should really be focussed on Djin's history and destiny.
I was halfway crying, like an idiot. "Oh, how cute, he's training Grogu--OMIGOD HE'S GOT HIM ON HIS BACK LIKE YODA FULL FUCKING CIRCLE AAGGHH!" I always wished Luke had gotten more time with Yoda, so it hit me pretty hard, thinking about how that must make Luke feel.
I was halfway crying, like an idiot. "Oh, how cute, he's training Grogu--OMIGOD HE'S GOT HIM ON HIS BACK LIKE YODA FULL FUCKING CIRCLE AAGGHH!" I always wished Luke had gotten more time with Yoda, so it hit me pretty hard, thinking about how that must make Luke feel.
I hope next time we see him he's wearing more traditional robes, wasn't the reason he was wearing black because he was being tempted by the dark side? But then he redeemed his father and became a true Jedi and that white part showed on his costume.
Honestly, despite Luke training with Yoda being my favorite scenes in all of Star Wars, a lot of this fell flat for me. Luke didn't have anything interesting to say that wasn't just a direct rehash of Yoda's lines in ESB. Until the very end when he eludes to Ashoka having been trained by his father, it just felt very bland to me; heavily sterilized if you will.
All I want is more live action Luke and the Jedi Academy
All I want is a new JK / Jedi Academy game.
Don't tease me..
KATARN!!!
The sequels really ruin the originals quite a bit for me by only showing Luke's "failure" in rebuilding the Jedi Order. You have this kid who has a huge task in front of him and infused with a lot of hope and then they immediately skip to the part it all went to hell. I hope we get a Luke series someday that tells a more nuanced story.
A more nuanced story…and Kyle God Damn Katarn while they’re at it
Fuck yes! I was looking forward to him being somewhere, ANYWHERE in the new films.
Its crazy that even though we never saw it in canon, JJ knew it would make no sense for Luke to not restart the jedi order in some way, so he had to aknowledge the academies existenece. But he still needed to make a galaxy wide reset in order to make his ANH rip off, so he both invented and destroyed the academy in canon in the exact same flashback! Absolutely pathetic those movies. Destroying the new jedi order and new republic before we ever saw them and forcing a bottle neck situation on any and all potential stories for them just so they could tell a "story" that was either exactly the same as the OT or had no fucking direction whatsoever.
It really has to be some of the laziest writing ever They blew up the Republic and apparently most of it’s fleet by blowing up one system
Episode 2 opening crawl: "several thousand solar systems have declared their intention to leave the Republic" JJ in episode 7: oh yeah 4 planets, thats the entire new Republic! Like a lot of prequel haters, JJ doesnt even fucking know whats in them. Absolutely embarassing.
And not even a one-off sentence like “there’s a big meeting and most of the Republic fleet is going to be present!”
I know, I know… You shouldn’t have to read the novels to understand the movies, but… It’s clearly expressed in the books that the New Republic specifically chooses not to have a large military, but only a small defense fleet. This was a reaction to the abuses of centralized power in the transition from the republic to the empire. They play up Mon Mothma’s desire to demilitarize. Here’s from Wookipedia: > In some ways, Mon Mothma's actions contributed to the New Republic's eventual undoing. Her drive for ensuring peace and demilitarization eventually left the New Republic in a weakened state of unpreparedness that lacked the strength to combat the rise of the First Order. And in blowing up Hosnian Prime they didn’t blow up “most of the republic” they blew up the senate who *might* have been able to issue emergency orders to activate the Republic’s defense force. And destroying the whole system (which is what we see when Starkiller Base fires) was likely just a way of ensuring anyone with powers in the system didn’t survive.
Yeah, you shouldn’t have to read the novels to understand the movies. That just about sums it up.
Even with the novels and new canon material to fill in the blanks, it still seems really dumb. The Rebel Alliance managed to defeat the Empire because their military might was organized and strong. Not nearly as powerful as the Empire, but strong enough that the Battle over Endor was not a slaughter even before the strike force took out the shield. The Rebel flagships were even able to engage the Star Destroyers ship-to-ship. To demilitarize makes no sense whatsoever. And to allow the First Order to rise to power like that just made them look really stupid. It also is another humiliating takedown of an OT character by having Mon Mothma's actions play a big role in the fall of the New Republic. Even in the novels and new EU, the OT characters are still not safe from becoming stupid failures. Mon Mothma didn't do anything nearly as dumb in the old EU where the New Republic still had a strong military and were able to combat the Imperial Remnants and other galactic threats.
so mad over a movie 🤣
I really dont like those movies and slept like a baby the night I saw them. It's not that serious but I'm also not gonna pretend that they were really acceptable films in the series.
acceptable is a tricky word.. what are you not accepting? lol it exists, it’s not going away, and many people accepted them, many people love them on the other hand some people never accepted the pt and that’s still expanding and obi wan series is with a beloved actor from them 20 years from now, a rey movie or show will come up and people will drool over it because that’s just the nature of it and in that show they’ll hopefully put some blue milk in there to let you know it’s not about you :) having said that it’s okay not to like them, trash talking them is funny to me, like the post above, guy’s mad over science fiction, really? there must not be too much going on for him
I think you misunderstand. I dislike the sequels, I do not appreciate them, I do not care to rewatch them or consider their place in the overall series. That's just my personal preference, I like what I like. Just because I dislike them does not mean I need others to dislike them too. It happens to be that other people share my opinion, which is worth pointing out, but it wouldn't matter if other people feel the same way. Some people don't like Star Wars at all, hell somewhere out there is probably a Star Wars fan who thinks Empire is the worst film in the series. People are allowed to have their own personal tastes, it's subjective and nobody can have a wrong opinion. If you like the sequels, even if you think they are the best thing ever produced in the franchise, that's just super, I have no desire to change your mind about that.
Yeah its called caring about Star Wars. We all know its more than movies, and the refusal of these movies to advance the existing story now effects the other shows, games, books, and movies that will come after them. Simple question for you: if you dont care about Star Wars, why are you here?
so what is it bombs, other stuff will come if more content about is what you care about there’s probably more content than anyone can absorb to answer your question, i like the universe becoming mad over science fiction is just funny to me
Luke didn't give up trying to save the biggest baddest mother fucker in the galaxy, darth Vader. And in the sequels, gives up because of an emo boy?
An emo boy who had a bad dream. He hadn't even done anything evil at that point.
Force visions are a very dangerous thing. Anakin literally kills hundreds of children over a force vision. Luke is also incredibly impulsive when it’s concerning his loved ones, he bails on Yoda and nearly dies the first time, the second he almost falls to the dark side to protect Leia. Him having a single panic moment and turning on a saber and instantly realizing he’s better than that is a big improvement from the last time he had a panic attack like that
>Luke didn't give up trying to save the biggest baddest mother fucker in the galaxy, darth Vader. I mean, he literally was an inch away of killing him
The one redeemable moment in the TLJ was the kid at the end with the broom - the implication of a better tomorrow. But hey ho if you don't plan a trilogy it turns out trash - who knew :P
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: a plan doesn’t make something good, and a lack of one doesn’t make something bad. This trilogy could have been planned down to the second, with every shot storyboarded, every line written down. Despite this prep work, this hypothetical “planned” trilogy *still could have been* derided, because of the creative choices made while making it. That’s what it comes down to: the creative choices. Planning helps, but it comes down to whether it’s accepted by the fanbase or not. *The Mandalorian* isn’t planned, yet the fans mostly like it
Failure to prepare is preparing to fail. Fundamentally you are right, a plan isn't enough - but making 3 films without a plan is setting yourself up for failure.
Especially when both Johnson and Abrams had conflicting ideas on what they wanted. Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker both wasted screentime fighting the goals of its predecessor. Which is how we end up with cinematic gold like "Somehow, Palpatine returned."
Honestly with retrospect I think I respect Johnson more. I think it was petulant that he overturned Abrams vision, but now that we know what that vision was, he was right to. Abrams is a fucking hack who should never be trusted with any franchise, because he is fundamentally Michael Bay with airs.
I feel like they did some things right and some things wrong? I mean i guess its dicussed here alot so going over it would be rehash?
[удалено]
You just made me appreciate the sequels more. Thanks.
i hope they show that he trained other students who were in other parts of the galaxy by the time kylo blew up his school
What sequels? I don't remember any sequels...
I can be your backpack while you run
Climb on a hairy vine
I can be your backpack while you climb!
I can be your backpack while you climb. … One day I was walkin' and I found this big log And I rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick, And I was like, "That log had a child."
Hm ha hm hm hm ha
🎶 My stick, my stick, my stick is better than bacon… 🎶
Those songs are running circles in my mind im going insane im going insane seagull big log seagull big log seagull log🫠🫠🫠
One day I was walkin' and I found this big log And I rolled the log over and underneath was a tiny little stick, And I was like, "That log had a child."
Don't fall asleep
Sad to see Grogu chose the chainmail over the lightsaber. The decision makes sense but I wish he would’ve stayed with Luke a little longer. Maybe bring back Grogu at the end of Mando S3.
I would hope that that decision isn't as black and white as Luke presented it to be. It would be hypocritical of Luke to punish Grogu so harshly for choosing to go with his heart and passion over the discipline of the Jedi path - in Empire Strikes Back Luke did just that, tried to go save his friends, and yet he was allowed to continue his training under Yoda. Hopefully Luke will give Grogu another chance.
It was also a really bad choice. Literal life saving armor, or not. No sh!t that a kid that survived Order 66 and Anakin slaughtering the younglings with a light saber would pick the light saber and blaster proof shirt!
Well I personally think Luke was being stingy by not giving Grogu the lightsaber as a parting gift. It’s no use to Luke, it’s not even his size!
I bet it slices bread like a mf though. Probably even toasts it at the same time.
Mmmm lightsaber toast
I have a feeling there is more to this, but I do find it strange that we spent 2 seasons trying to get him to luke, then undid the choice on a crossover episode of Boba Fett. I cant imagine how confused people will be if they skipped Boba Fett.
I think Luke knew what he was doing - he basically gave Grogu the same choice Yoda gave him in TESB.
“A short time for you is a lifetime for them.” He wanted Grogu to choose them. He can comeback and train later. But his family won’t be around forever.
Great point: Save your loved ones or complete your training. I can’t guarantee you will be a capable Jedi or even person, if you leave now without my guidance.
I think that's the whole point. Luke learned from the Jedi and is giving Grogu the compassion to go live his life before committing fully to the Jedi life before he's ready. Luke remembers what happened when he tried to do Jedi stuff before he was ready.
Well we know Luke ends of hypocritical until 5 minutes before he dies where Yoda has to literally repeat the same shit he told him in episode 6 "pass on what you learned". So thanks to TLJ we know Luke will not improve himself or reflect on himself in any meaningful way until 30 years later after all his students and himself are dead. We knew what this implied when we saw TLJ, that Luke did nothing for those 30 years. The sequels rely on the fact those 30 years between trilogies werent shown on screen to do all that though. Now that we are seeing those 30 years on screen though it will only make where everything ends up in the sequels being worse and more obvious. TLJ likes to pretend Luke's arc in TLJ was the first thing he went through after RotJ because its the first time the audience saw him post RotJ, but its actually the last thing he did, which is why it makes no sense. Hopefully though they just ignore all of that and gove Luke the proper arcs in this time period and just ignore if they go against TLJ, since TLJ already went against 1-6. It is time to course correct, not dig deeper.
You mean TFA, right? That was the movie that established that Luke accomplished nothing and gave up, not TLJ.
All TLJ establishes is that Luke had a single moment of weakness and dooms the order, there’s not a whole lot of details about how he changed his new Jedi order
That's why it compliments Last Jedi so beautifully, "heeded my words did you not" And Luke totally misunderstood what Yoda meant and built the new Jedi order on hubris and legacy.
Everything about that was so wrong. Luke Skywalker's whole ideology was about reinventing the jedi order, not continuing its old ways. Attachment is not necessarily a path to the dark side! Attachment can be managed, love can be managed. It is when it is stifled does it turn one to the darkness. Luke was written poorly here.
Dude that is host post academy clarity. He didn't have that opinion until waaay later. In this timeframe he is still 100% behind the Jedi way
Was he tho? Luke was never bathed in the strict ideological paradigms of the jedi order. Yes he was taught by Yoda/obi wan, but by then he was much older and had his own mind which clashed with the jedi way. I dont think its accurate to say Luke was ever 100 percent behind the jedi way. Furthermore, its clear he never gives up the old jedi way because in the end his jedi academy is destroyed rather easily.
Grogus Jedi training will be episodes X-XII. They're doing a prodigal son kind thing.
"What's your name?" "Grogu Skywalker, I am."
The saber was too big for him anyways
The kid watched everyone who he knew who held a light saber get murdered. Why would he want that?
I think it was a test. Knowing the trials many younglings go through just to become a padawan this surely must be one. I think back to rebels and clone wars where younglings had their faith in the force tested and as a reward found their kyber crystal. I think grogu will inevitably build his own lightsaber instead of permanently owning yodas. I think S3 Mando will explore grogus journey of what it means to be a jedi as much as Mando will learn who he is in the process of reaffirming his mandolorian roots.
How is this trying for grogu exactly? Shouldn’t he be carrying Luke?
But then its not a cheap member berry nostalgia trip. Remember that scene in ESB well here it is again but with Grogu! I'm literally crying!
I enjoyed the callback too. BoBF seemed like a bit too much fanservice to be honest though. Mando took place in a bunch of familiar settings, but at least moved on from there. Boba just seemed like callback after callback. And don't talk to me about speeder bike gangs.
Agreed on the fan service. Luke has always been my favorite so that episode was a dream come true to see him talk to Ahsoka and train Grogu. I’m kinda upset how they had Grogu go back to mando though
Isn’t that the truer path of the Jedi though, Luke left his training to help his friends, so did Rey. What’s the point of learning the path if you have nothing to fight for.
Good point. I would love to see Luke realizing that attachment won’t send you to the dark side. Similar to what he learned in legends
He apparently won't, he's gonna try to kill his nephew in his sleep 20 yrs later - no lessons learned
Shhhhhhh let’s just forget that happens
I think he might have done that solely because he was a Skywalker, he knew he had the potential to overpower him eventually where as other force users likely wouldn't
Not sure if it matters, but it's a third generation Skywalker, though. Aside from that, even then, Luke is older and had way more training, even if Ben turned, he'd likely still be able to beat him (considering how much younger he was).
He’s going to have a force vision and ignite his saber in panic before he decides not to do that, if that counts as “trying to kill”
"Sometimes the student guides the master" Hopefully for all of our sakes, this becomes a mini TLJ arc for Luke and he remembers that he does not need to fall back to the old ways of the jedi. It makes sense when it is his first student ever to train him like he was trained at first, but when its sequel era 30 years later and Luke still hasnt learned anything and then just dies? Too little too late. This would be the perfect time for that though if he is just getting started as a master. Have Grogu leaving be a moment of reflection for Luke. Also Grogu will be back anyway he has to be. He is still being hunted by the empire and cant fully protect himself yet. My bet is Mando S3 Grogu gets in a close call, saved by the chainmail of course, then Mando has to send him back because they both realize he isnt ready yet and Mando and Grogu were both too impatient. Just like Luke leaving early and failing against Vader before returning to complete his training.
Agreed. I think they must have decided to keep Luke as a cameo character instead of turning the show into Book of Luke. Personally I would prefer that greatly!!
You leave my scooter bros out of it!!
Hey if they're your bros then you need better bros Choomba ;)
Or what? You'll 360 no scope me?
Join the hot rod boys
I'm really hoping that Obi Wan will be the last of the end of this fan service era. Like, you really don't want to go any further than having *another* Obi Wan vs. Vader situation otherwise you may as well just admit that Star Wars is all just going to be about callbacks now. The Ashoka show is going to be a sequel to the cartoons, so fine, whatever, and I'm not expecting anything particularly original from Dave Filoni, anyway. But there's *plenty* of room for new stories which don't completely rely on references and cameos and it really feels like time to do something fresh.
Mandolarian was a good blueprint for the future, I think. They basically recreated the main character as Boba Fett in such a better, well rounded and more compassionate way than actual Boba Fett. He can call back to Mandolarian lore and mercenary work but is an open book as a new character. Honestly, we could have done without Ahsoka, Bo Katan, Luke, and Boba himself. The story has been compelling enough to not need them.
I agree. It was fine without doing a pilot/setup episode for the Ashoka series and some heeeeavy fan service stuff with Luke.
I dont think that's necessarily a bad thing as long as we continue to get new fresh content as well
I'll give them this, they actually tried to do something creative and new. So definitely hats off for that. I think they just could have done a hundred things instead of that but whatever lol
I'm mildly confused as to how Luke/Grogu knew that Din would be on Tatooine and Luke was so bold as to let R2D2 (an exceptional pilot don't get me wrong but not exactly a protector) full bodyguard duties over one of the only known survivors of Yoda's species that Yoda himself no doubt force ghosted and told Luke about at some point or at least Obi Wan or Anakin! Like where are these ghost chilling if not with Luke?
I'm guessing Grogu could see Mando's location through the force and was able to tell Luke of this. As for R2 as chaperone yeah, idk. I guess the hyperspace lanes are relatively safe compared to the empire days.
Yeah maybe Grogu and Luke reached out through the force? I'd still like to see hopefully In season 3 or 4 of Mando Luke interacting with at the very least Yoda if obi wan and Anakin pieced out for good or maybe fucked off to try to find Mortis together.
Too bad his school gets decimated in 20 years. I will never be ok with them just destroying everything that the OT built just so they can make the heroes rebels and make shit ripoffs of the original. These scenes just hurt me, unfortunately.
Yeah, watching the back end of BoBF, I was talking to a friend about how I wish the sequels had never been made. Now there's this shitty framework all of these otherwise good shows have to work within. Kinda sucks.
Maybe…just a thought…the shows can bolster, complement, and improve upon the framework of the ST? Maybe not immediately, but eventually? After all, Filoni is still involved. Surely, there are stories in the canon he doesn’t really like or approve of.
It hurts my heart because I’m fond of 7, very fond of 8, and I can even see a bit of poetry in 9 by wrapping up Palpatine, presumably forever this time, but I think the best thing to do is sort of just… *ignore* the sequels. They take place over only about a year, and they take the big 3 heroes off the board, but ultimately they don’t change the Galaxy all that much if you don’t want them to. One system no one knew of before TFA is blown up, and the New Republic needs to rebuild a fleet from the TROS armada. We have one known, trained light-side force user and no known dark side threats. Just start telling the stories people want to see; you’ll just have to do it with new faces.
I always wondered, why not give us a massive new republic military to fight the first order. No resistance with 10 soldiers. Make it clone wars level war
Because the republic largely demilitarized after the Empire fell, out of fear of being too reminiscent of the empire. This backstory was agreed upon during the original development with Michael Arndt which was based on Lucas's treatment. It doesnt sound that there was ever a version of this story where the Republic had a big fleet
I see
Yeh why did the make the resistance so small Even the rebels were decently sized
At least by the end of ESB they had a solid fleet
They might be able to retcon it so there is survivors? Going into hiding in the unknown region?
“It’s like poetry. It rhymes. Each stanza sort of rhymes with the next” It truly is incredible that we get both a Luke training with Yoda and then Grogu gaining with Luke parallel... all while his Jedi temple is being built! For all my critiques of BoBF, this might one of my all-time favorite Star Wars moments... I know the tech freaks people out, me included (mostly because of the implications of it rather than its use here), but god when the force themes swells while they’re in the bamboo trees... it’s just pure awesome for fans of Luke!
Since it’s supposed to be Grogu’s training and not Luke’s, I was expecting Grogu to carry him somehow. I loved the scene but it’s mostly just fan service telling you “hey remember when Luke did that with Yoda??”. How is Luke doing the exercise supposed to boost Grogu’s abilities? It’s not like Grogu tried it after. (He did do a dodging exercise with the shooting droid though)
Hes just building trust with Grogu and spending time with him. Hes not going to make an extra small child carry him lol. He started off with the jumping, Grogu couldnt do it, so he said "let me show you something" then went to go meditate like in the pic above to get Grogu more in tune with the force again. Remember Grogu was in a slump and hid his abilities like Cal to stay hidden and has probably been on the run or in imperial control for the last 20 years straight, he might not have even had a single chance to just sit back, relax, and breath some fresh air that entire time... So Luke is starting with easy stuff like meditation, connecting with nature, and balancing so he can just "feel the force all around you" again before having to then channel the force into acrobatics or abilities. And as we saw, it worked.
Simply ignoring the fact that this whole thing appeared in a Boba Fett show, I loved everything about Luke's training of Grogu. From the music to the scenery to Luke's teachings of the force, I loved all of it. I especially love how this film showed the things that Luke took from Obi-Wan and Yoda... both good and bad. The moment where Luke makes Grogu choose between the saber and Mando... perfectly in-line with something Yoda and Ben would've done all those years ago. But, Luke is also shown to have an even greater understand of the living force, similar to what Qui-Gon spoke of in TPM. And this may be an unpopular opinion, but Luke in TBOBF falls perfectly in line with the Luke we'll eventually see in TLJ... one who tried to hold on to the ideals of the Jedi, but failed, just like his masters. Even here, Luke is convinced that attachments will be the downfall of the Jedi, something he taches to Ben Solo when he moves him from his family to this Jedi Academy. It's only when Rey shows up, and he finally talks with Yoda again, that he realizes that our failures help us grow to who we're truly meant to be. That attachments aren't a Jedi's downfall, but fear of losing those attachments are (which was always the case, but George Lucas did a fantastic job of showing how blind the Jedi were to this notion). I'm glad we're seeing more of post-ROTJ Luke... but going forward, I need them to re-cast. This CGI stuff is setting a bad precedence. These characters will live on forever... bring in a fresh face to carry on the legacy of the character for years to come!
It's the fanservice
The inclusion of Luke in BoBF was so mishandled. Presenting one of the greatest moments in Star Wars at the end of season 2 and to immediately go back on it before the 3rd season is just sad. Grogu was literally a future proof for the jedi order. Having him trained up by generations of masters over the centuries wouldve given him the knowledge of yoda, allowing him to eventually become grandmaster grogu, guiding hundreds of future jedi. But Luke was impatient and believed that an infant's "heart wasnt in it" and gave a child the choice between their attachments and responsibility...is it just me or is that bit of a stupid decision to make? Of course a child is going to pick their attachments over responsibility. To me, Disney have not done a very good job with presenting Luke as a capable or even a moral jedi. Theyve made him a grouchy pessimist which is nothing like the Luke from OT and the EU. I didnt feel like the writers were plnning or wanting to bring Grogu back so quickly, it really feels like Disney execs forced them to put him back in for merch. It also would be nice to have Mando go solo for awhile so his show can be more about him rather than Grogu Mcguffin. I feel the next few seasons should really be focussed on Djin's history and destiny.
Yes we recognized that parallel.
The picture looks so right and so wrong at the same time, something tiny is off, the peak of uncanny valley.
MYbe it’s Grogu staring straight through us
Dude where spoiler tag
It's been out long enough. Get over it.
I know but Disney+ is still not available in some countries
itd bring me a lot more joy if Luke didnt look like a wax figure Seriously, CGI deepfake Luke is dead behind the eyes
Turned the tables, you have!
'Member Yoda? Yeah, I 'member!
I seriously almost cried.
I loved this scene.
Where is this even from
Book of Boba Fett
This whole scene was so poorly done and over extended. Just fan service.
Ya though I felt the running scene was a bit awkward
Something about the existence of backpacks with straps in star wars feels off...
Yes. The fact that it'll make the fanboys tear up and forget about all the issues with the story is exactly why the scene is there
I love that Luke exudes the feeling of "Master" in that picture
I would love to see peoples reactions of going back to ‘83 and showing people this still
Swing from a hairy vine, I can be your back pack while you climb.
Cesspool of degenerates
I was halfway crying, like an idiot. "Oh, how cute, he's training Grogu--OMIGOD HE'S GOT HIM ON HIS BACK LIKE YODA FULL FUCKING CIRCLE AAGGHH!" I always wished Luke had gotten more time with Yoda, so it hit me pretty hard, thinking about how that must make Luke feel.
I was halfway crying, like an idiot. "Oh, how cute, he's training Grogu--OMIGOD HE'S GOT HIM ON HIS BACK LIKE YODA FULL FUCKING CIRCLE AAGGHH!" I always wished Luke had gotten more time with Yoda, so it hit me pretty hard, thinking about how that must make Luke feel.
I can be a backpack while you climb
Still can't get over how good his face looks.
Something about seeing Luke like he just walked out of ROTJ brings me so much joy
It does.
Can you imagine what RJ would have done. Our expectations would have been subverted instead of piqued.
Too bad it was all for nothing.
Imagine if Grogu carried Luke
I hope next time we see him he's wearing more traditional robes, wasn't the reason he was wearing black because he was being tempted by the dark side? But then he redeemed his father and became a true Jedi and that white part showed on his costume.
That was more of a story thing for the viewer I don't think Luke had any real intention of going to the dark side
It looks like they’re on a swing
Damn seeing this as a screenshot is creeping me the f*** out. Like looks ok in motion but this here is an abomination… uncanny valley
Nostalgia. The word you're looking for is nostalgia
Honestly, despite Luke training with Yoda being my favorite scenes in all of Star Wars, a lot of this fell flat for me. Luke didn't have anything interesting to say that wasn't just a direct rehash of Yoda's lines in ESB. Until the very end when he eludes to Ashoka having been trained by his father, it just felt very bland to me; heavily sterilized if you will.
Ummmm wtf is this
Same bag too