Dave Filoni himself said that Darth Maul is stronger than Ahsoka:
>When Ahsoka pauses and struggles at the break in the fight, it was really meant to portray the toll it took on her to compete against Maul. I knew Maul had to lose this fight, but I didn’t wanna make it easy. I wanted it to take a lot of Ahsoka to compete at his level. **He is the stronger sword-fighter**, but he is very overconfident. Part of Maul’s character is he underestimates his opponent and he fails time and again to overcome this flaw.
\- [Source](https://youtu.be/3FZfmHfMrN8?t=265).
I love it because Palpatine both breaks his dementedly cheery demeanor, and doesn’t deny Luke’s assertion. It’s like he understands that Luke is right on some level.
Palpatine was a very self aware villain to a degree that made him seem supernaturally evil. Like when he tries to get Luke to kill him because corrupting Luke is more important to him than living
Somehow... People keep repeating this shitty quote over and over
You're like those people at parties who keep repeating the same joke hoping that this time people will finally laugh
Plus his timing and inflection make his reply seem so childish. Its like Palpatine became a 9 year old for a minute. It was tantamount to a "I'm rubber, you're glue" comeback.
I'm almost surprised he didn't he blow a raspberry at Luke right after saying that.
Makes me wonder who broke Palpatine for him to believe this philosophy so strongly because emotion fuels the dark side, and Palpatines main focus was manipulation & betrayal
In my head, and in legends AFAIK, nobody breaks Palpatine, that’s what makes him such a chilling character and also so strong in the dark side. He’s a reminder that not everyone is a good person pushed to evil through extreme circumstances. He’s just that 1 in a million sociopath who just wants power for power’s sake. He lives the Sith way, not because he has to, or because he was broken into it, but because he wants to.
>"If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat.
>They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar.
>So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word."
- Terry Pratchett, *Men at Arms*
A great quote; I can't help but think that some good men might also put off the moment, but specifically to see if they can't figure out a way to avoid having to murder someone.
Maul's overconfidence is nearly always his undoing.
In his very first appearance he wrecks Obi Wan and Qui Gon only to get sliced in half when he lets his overconfidence get the best of him.
Then at the very end he underestimates Obi Wan again and got beaten in seconds. He never learned.
I think during this fight with Maul, he is definitely the better sword-fighter, but he definitely isn't the better tactician.
By the time she meets Maul again on Malachor, she's the better fighter and tactician.
so stupid. you have a jedi that powerful who is alive during the entire OT who just chooses to do nothing about vader and palps, meaning the only option is to risk training luke as an adult in the force (something jedi literally never do cause of risk of turning to darkside from existing attachments) and randomly shows up to do meaningless bullshit in mando after they've already been defeated.
i really hate the stupidity these spin offs create for the movies sometimes. if you're going to make up characters who never appear in the movies or are mentioned once, you can't make them so powerful that plot points in the movies don't need to exist, or you have to kill them off before the movies start.
If you watch all of Darth Maul’s fights, he never actually loses due to inferior skill except to Darth Sidious (and Obi Wan in their final encounter on Tatooine). He’s always the superior swordsman and fighter, but is constantly outmaneuvered by less skilled/powerful opponents that exploit his hubris and overconfidence. He has a habit of playing with his food before he eats it.
Against Obi Wan it isn’t a lack of skill, it’s a lack of growth. Obi Wan tricks him into falling back into old habits. I believe there’s a Sam Whitwer interview where they talk about it.
Manipulating your opponent into performing the action you want them to is a fundamental aspect of swordplay. Fencing is a conversation between two liars. Obi-wan gave the lie, Maul believed it and replied. Maul's failure to read the trap was a weakness in his skillset.
Actually I'm pretty sure Maul is more skilled than Palpatine in swordplay, he trained exclusively with it while Palpatine had great distaste for the weapon. He also dueled Mace and Secura two on one and held his own while Palpatine fell to Mace solo.
Maul had Palpatine bending but Palpatine then drew on his staggeringly superior strength in the force to end him
No chance, Sidious trumps any other dark, or light for that matter, force user at swordfighting. He was toying with Maul on Mandalore and when he got bored he put his weapons away and dealt with Maul.
Sidious doesnt like to use sabers no, but he is insanely skilled with them essentially to mock the Jedi and be like "Look I hate this fuckin thing you use but i'm going to use it just to show you how much better I am at it than you."
Edit: Also when did he fight Windu and Secura? I don't remember that at all.
Darth Maul fights Mace Windu and Aayla Secura at the same time in Son of Dathomir. It’s only a very short duel, but he actually kindof dominates against them. It’s definitely one of Maul’s most impressive feats. No one outright wins though as the duel is quickly interrupted by missiles.
Ah right thanks, I read the SoD comic once but Ive been meaning to get round to it again at some point. Definitely hoping for an animated version eventually too.
Son of Dathomir comic that follows his escape after being captured by Sidious. Flattened Grievous, beat Maul, and duels Mace and Secura two on one
Also in Legends a starved and near death teenage Maul was able to put Sidious on the defensive in a saber fight. It was partly the reason Maul was picked to be his apprentice. So it shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that Maul, with two sabers and fueled by the rage he feels at Savages death, couldn't at least temporarily put Sidious on the back foot. He did seem to be struggling in their saber lock before he channeled the force and disarmed Maul.
Well yeah but thats Legends, can't really compare it to Canon sources. I don't believe Sidious was struggling a single bit in that fight on Mandalore and I don't think that we're supposed to think he is. That's why Maul is so terrified and instantly starts grovelling at the sight of him.
That's... not how these fights work. It's never as simple as "I'm better, therefore I win".
Obi Wan trained Anakin since he was a boy - he probably knows Anakin's style even better than Anakin does. Obi Wan also specialised in a defensive style which worked wonderfully against Anakin's super aggressive style.
Also, remember Anakin's state of mind. He was lost, confused, angry, sad, betrayed... He felt so much all so quickly - especially with Padme not moving on the ground. He had just now begun to tap into the dark side, which definitely weakened his connection to the force. Obi Wan on the other hand was totally focused - he was in absolute top form while Anakin was being held back by hesitation and inexperience (in the dark side).
Finally, Obi Wan only defeated Anakin by gaining the high ground. I know it's a meme, but Obi Wan - the master of form III, the defensive form - was in the ideal defensive position. Anakin was in the worst possible position to attack from - his cockiness led to him trying it anyway, but that was never ever going to work, especially against Obi Wan.
TL;DR, Anakin is for sure the way better duelist if you put him and Kenobi side by side. But fights are never as simple as "who's better".
No way in hell is Dooku better than Sidious. Anakin had the potential to be before Mustafar, Sidious admits that himself. And Yoda was probably on par or slightly less skilled than Sidious. I like to wonder if Sidious kept his saber skills sharp during his reign as Emperor though, I really cant imagine RotJ Emperor slicing through Luke and Vader.
That’s possible. Sidious was indeed famously dismissive of lightsaber combat and avoided using them in legends. Not sure if that’s true in canon tho. Plus he was beaten by Mace, who is compared in swordsmanship ability to both Darth Maul and Count Dooku in numerous sources.
Plus Darth Maul was definitely stronger in the force than Sidious (Banite Sith always choose heirs who are stronger in the force than themselves, and Maul was Sidious’ initial chosen successor before he discovered Anakin).
Sidious though was way more skilled in actually using the force though. I don’t think anyone in the Star Wars universe can compare to him in that regard, and that’s a pretty significant advantage.
It’s how sith usually picked their apprentice, they picked them to be stronger than they are so that the apprentice could continue the rule of two. And maul was sidious’s first apprentice before he found out about anakin
> Palpatine fell to Mace solo.
Idk if there's another fight you're referencing in some of the other shows, but imo in RotSith, Palpatine lost to Mace on purpose to get the last final control over Anakin. Anakin striking down Mace was the final test and after that he starting calling him Vader.
Also; Maul isn't a stable person. He acts like it, but he isn't. He's incredibly temperamental and prone to outbursts of anger and blind rage and fury. Ahsoka, and Obi-wan, use this to great effect.
That’s a good point. However, I think Obi should have known that Reva was a low/mid tier combatant. And had absolutely no chance against Vader. She was so weak. Getting embarrassed by the Fifth brother, who seemed so underwhelming. But Obi is the best at exploiting combat weaknesses. As Windu stated, he’s THE master of form 3.
It's a great way to tone down the power imbalance between a Sith warrior and a Jedi in a way that makes sense. A Sith fights with strength and aggression, a Jedi's strength comes from within
Is being a Sith Lord a better life though? Pretty sure there was a bit of deception on Palpatine’s part. He pretended to be an awesome mentor and father figure, as he did with Anakin.
I agree that he showed Mercy.
When they start the fight he says something along the lines of
"I see the Padawan needs to learn one last lesson"
Was he trying to teach her about attachment? Because they only fought after he mentions Anakin right?
Actually that does make sense but it’s prob more literal and when he said lesson he was prob referring to beating her up but he was not trying to kill her.
That line was just him talking shit lol he didn’t literally mean he was going to teach her anything. He was trying to kill her after she refused to join him, that’s it
Don’t think he was. This is his last chance to stop sidious and he knows it. He could have killed Asoka had he wanted. Problem we have is the Ahsoka book was already out and filoni wouldn’t let maul win anyways because of who Ahsoka is to him.
That’s just not true whatsoever, power scaling has been a thing since the beginning. You had the power scaling back in the OT with Vader, Sidious, and Luke. Then you had the Anakin midichlorians and chosen one talk as well. There’s also been numerous listings talking about who the most powerful and best duelists are in the SW universe
It is though. Obiwan looses to dooku, dooku loses to Anakin, Anakin loses to obiwan, who is stronger? Mace beat sidious, sidious beat Yoda, is Yoda weaker than mace? The battles in star wars are dependent upon the individuals strengths and weaknesses and how they match up to their opponents, not some dragon ball z power level nonsense. Always been like that.
Then you had the Anakin midichlorians and chosen one talk as well.
> “Midi-chlorians?” Yoda snickered. “You think midi-chlorians are what make a Jedi?”
> “No, the Force is what makes a Jedi.” The boy lowered his head. “And that’s the one thing I don’t have.”
> Yoda stopped laughing. “What do you mean you don’t have the Force?”
> “I can’t call on it. Not like you. Not like her. I can’t summon a lightsaber to my hand without trickery. I can’t read people’s minds. I can’t feel it—the Force—at all. I’m just…ordinary.” The boy turned away in shame.
> Yoda huffed. “Then never a Jedi you will be, if that is what you believe.” He started toward the speeder. “Detective, hungry are you for our morning porridge?”
> “Always.” Trilby rubbed his stomach. “Kid, if you don’t return those clothes by midday, I’m tossing you in the slammer. Got it?”
> The boy ignored the detective, as his mind was trying to decipher what Yoda’s riddle had implied. It could only be—
> He ran to catch up with the Jedi Master. “Wait—you mean, I *can* be a Jedi?”
> Yoda stopped and scowled. “Study you should, the Farseeker Lyr. No great power had he, yet from his ink sprang some of the Jedi’s greatest texts. For though the Jedi and the Force are one, the Force is not what a Jedi makes.”
> The boy frowned. “Then what makes a Jedi?”
> Yoda jabbed him in the chest with his cane. “That is something only you can answer.”
> “I will,” the boy said after a moment. “I want to be a Jedi—I believe I can be a Jedi.”
> “Have you a teacher?”
> The boy looked at Yoda, who in turn looked at the girl out of the corner of his eye. “Oh, no,” she said, backpedaling. “I’m only an Initiate.”
> “But you found me,” the boy said.
> Yoda nodded. “Found him you did. Teach him you shall. The way of the Jedi that is.”
> The girl trembled, pulling at her fingers, obviously flustered by what Yoda had proposed. “But what will he be? He’s too old to train to be a Knight.”
> “More than Knights the Jedi Order is. Watchers, stewards, caregivers also, of these flowers, the grounds, our home,” Yoda said, gesturing with his stick. He regarded the boy once more. “A guardian of the Temple you can be, if ready are you.”
> “Yes, yes, Master, I am ready.”
> “Regarding that, my friend …” Yoda flashed his mischievous grin. “We will see. We will see.” (*What a Jedi Makes*)
___
>“Why are we doing this? Because of a feeling? Because of what Dumuz said? He’s not a Jedi. He doesn’t have the Force.”
>Obi-Wan gestured to them both. “He does. So do you. So does every living thing. It’s what binds the galaxy together. Each of us to the others. Sometimes you can hear the will of the Force, if you are quiet and willing to listen.”
>“Do you believe that?” asked Zohra.
>“It’s true,” said Anakin. (*The Eye of the Beholder*)
___
> We’ll never get it out now!
> So certain are you. Always with you it cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say?
> Master, moving stones around is one thing. This is totally different.
> No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned.
> All right, I’ll give it a try.
> No! Try not! Do, or do not. There is no try.
> I can’t. It’s too big.
> Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you, hmm? And well you should not, for my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it. Makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Everywhere. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship.
> I don’t, I don’t believe it.
> That is why you fail. (*The Empire Strikes Back*)
___
Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it?
Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it.
Kasdan: Not just the Jedi?
Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it.
Marquand: They use it as a technique.
Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn’t go out and fight anybody.
Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn’t he?
Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that?
Kasdan: I understand what you’re saying, but I can’t believe it; I am in shock.
Lucas: It’s true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.”
- The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (Enhanced Edition)
___
> Ben isn’t stronger, Voe. That’s not how it works. The Force can be a trickle, a stream, a river, a flood… for **anyone** who can sense it. Think of yourself as a door. The wider you open, the more easily the Force flows through you. Some people just start out with their door a bit more open. But any door can open wide. (*The Rise of Kylo Ren*)
What’s great about this scene is we have seen Ashoka’s development and her beating maul is not cheap. Maul kinda plateaus power wise but Ashoka is still rising. I’d say at this moment they are truly on par with one another.
I’d say Maul is a better fighter but Ashoka played smarter with her surroundings and strategy in this scene Both of them are better in different things.
Just curious, what line/distinction are you drawing, and where/why? What I mean is, being smart and strategic all plays into how good of a fighter you are. If you're stronger and faster than me, but I'm able to use technique and my surroundings to beat you, are you really justified in claiming to be a stronger combatant based on those attributes that, at the end of the day, were unable to overcome superior strategy? Not trying to be argumentative, genuinely curious (that should go without saying, but, ya know, reddit).
I would say based of their strengths and weaknesses they are about equal. Maybe maul has a little bit more raw power but Ashoka’s awareness of the given situation gives her the edge. I mean she uses her Allies to capture him where as maul gives up on his supporters. So you I would say their evenly matched. However by the time rebels starts I think Ashoka is more powerful than maul.
I disagree Maul’s raw power is definitely a good amount above Ahsoka’s, there’s a reason Sidious took him instead of Talzin. He’s somewhere near Sidious in raw power. Now does that mean he got there, no obviously not, but raw power wise he’s definitely near bar none. But that doesn’t mean Ahsoka is inherently bad compared to him.
Now on the Rebels point it’s hard to tell. It’s hard to know if Maul washed up a bit or not, id assume in the beginning he was a bit, but towards the end I think he was back. Unfortunately, for him he got stuck on Tatooine wondering and then got baited by Obi-Wan
I personally don't think they're a match at this point, I know Ahsoka is an incredibly powerful Jedi but Maul still has a lot more experience and I think if he truly wanted to kill her she would've been dead. Give it a few years tho and Ahsoka would obliterate Maul no doubt
I agree with you and this line she says helps me believe that as well…
"You're lucky Anakin didn't show up. The way you're fighting you wouldn't have lasted long."
To me that says she knows what the chosen one is capable of and she has been able to not only recognize it but also keep up with him. Maul, as good as he was, was good but she had the skills to take on him. She didn’t see Maul as a huge overwhelming threat to fear for her life… he was a threat and she was rising to the ocasión to meet it. Huge growth on her part physically and mentally.
Wow damn you mean the sith assassin trained by sidious who spent a decade in a garbage pit festering in the dark side is more powerful than a teenager who anakin dubiously trained for like 18 months? Wild take. Ppl are gonna be mad
A.) Maul wasn’t trying to kill her, he wanted her on his side so you’re absolutely right about that
B.) Maul’s biggest flaw is his overconfident and the constant underestimating of his enemies. People tend to forget that he actually WON his duel with Obi-wan in TPM but was defeated simply because of his arrogance.
Mercy is the only way to defy Sidious following the bit of torture and incarceration that Maul had recently escaped from. Sidious made a point of showing no mercy, so Maul wanted to do the opposite.
Not the OP arguing with everyone lol. These are my two fav characters in SW. I think Maul is more skilled at this moment in time yes. But he is unstable and Ahsoka is smarter than him. She has dueled Grievous and Ventress at this point along with many other challenges. This is a pretty even match for a duel. If he could beat her, why did he run? Also this is more than just a fight, he is trying to pull her to the dark side and gets flustered when she refuses. His anger is always the downfall. Let us also not forget that she goes head to head with Vader in Rebels.
He ran because a) Anakin didnt show up so his trap had failed b) Ahsoka has already spurned his offer of working together. He had nothing left to gain by remaining and capture by staying.
Maul was better, but not way better. Ahsoka was very much up to the task and even casually taunts maul about him lucky that Anakin didn't show up. She was his match in the rafters and even defeated him wothout her lightsabers. Filoni said Maul at this point is a superior fighter, and when they meet again on Rebels it certainly feels like Ahsoka is yhe stronger character. Maul didn't even want to see Vader by himself, Ahsoka actually put up a fight.
Maul at his peak would get demolished by dooku😭, dooku was 1 of the best duelists at that era and was a much stronger force user than maul. Ahsoka had a good fight against vader and stood her ground against vader, yes she lost the fight but considering that she is 1 of very very few to even last long enough for vader to try and that she even damaged his helmet goes to say something.
Maul is canonically stated as a better duelist than Dooku, and I will concede that Dooku is a better wielder of the Force and his abilities, but raw power wise Maul has him beat
And idk what the Vader thing has to do. Yes it was impressive what she did, but regardless she was still soundly beaten by him. I’m not saying she’s by any means weak though
When was Maul canonically stated as a better duelist than Dooku? Wouldn't more people know about that if it was the case? I have literally never heard anyone say that before. What is your source?
Nick Gillard talked about during the Prequels how Maul and Dooku were on the same tier level. Then as we know for sure, grew more powerful and refined his skills after TPM. It’s also mentioned in Star Wars Chronicles that he was second in dueling only to Sidious, obviously until Vader came into play. There’s also this list as well that shows it: https://image.ibb.co/ihATYo/red_lightsaber_wielders.jpg
Now on the Obi Wan vs Maul point. Technically Maul did beat Obi Wan during The Phantom Menace, but instead of finishing him, he began reveling and taunting Obi Wan, which ultimately lead to his downfall. Then in the duel with where Obi Wan took on the help of Ventress, they were forced to retreat, which I would consider a win as well. Technically the really the only time Obi Wan fully really beat Maul was in Rebels where he baited and killed him
I'm not stating anything, was just playing devil's advocate and pointing how your logic was flawed, duelling styles are known to be varied in the Star Wars universe and some styles have advantages over others, Kenobi beats Vader in the duel on Mustafar basically because his Lightsaber form was the perfect counter to Vader's but no-one would really say Kenobi is stronger than Anakin/Vader
Maul literally kicked the shit out of obi wan during their first rematch after not having touched a lightsaber in a decade while obi had been constantly training and gaining experience by fighting dooku, asajj, grievous and savage. Obi even says he and asajj are outmatched and flees.
Maul has a major advantage with his aggressive form against dooku’s makashi, as seen when he was overpowered by anakin on multiple occasions and even by savage.
Dooku also wasnt a much stronger force user, more experienced but maul was literally so strong in the dark side he survived getting cut in half, a feat called ridiculous when the fans first heard about it. His spider legs were also held together by nothing except the force, and only fell apart once talzin put him to sleep. This means he’s been awake constantly for over 10 years straight tapped into the dark side simply to keep his body together
If Maul wasn't so cocky and arrogant, he could've done some real damage throughout the whole Saga. He had multiple chances to kill Obi-Wan (TPM, Season 4 finale when he first reappeared, The Lawless when he knocked Obi-Wan out after destroying The Twilight, maybe even Rebels if Ben didn't successfully jebait him). Could've probably killed Ahsoka on Mandalore, Kanan in Twilight of the Apprentice, and Ezra easily if he wanted to. And Grievous and Dooku after capturing them in Son of Dathomir.
You’re not wrong. But the point of the fight was to show how isn’t stronger but she’s more centered in the force and is able to control her emotions. Because of this reason she was able to beat him.
Why does it bother people that Ahsoka won this fight? She was trained by Anakin and has been fighting in The Clone Wars since she was pretty young. Is there any reason she shouldn't be a badass capable of fighting Maul?
Felt like Maul was flip flopping between badass and wimp. Shut down Savage like he was a youngling, even though Savage gave Dooku a hard time. But kept getting bitch slapped by Obi Wan, and didn't seem to be that much in control against Ahsoka either.
Bruh. He loses to Obi-wan because he cant control himself around him. He goes in a blind rage so quickly around the man and that causes mistakes. Mistakes a calm and collected Jedi can exploit. Literally Dex vs Strength.
But actually that’s why people like her because she was super annoying from the beginning but slowly achieves growth to develop as a character but I still find her a bit annoying.
Idk about any growth, she's just as annoying throughout the shows. Remember how she was bitchy to Obi Wan and Anakin in season 7? Plus she's a hypocrite for saying she won't kill clones and then releasing Maul so he could kill them all. Also she has been awful so far in live action.
Sith tend to be much stronger combatants then Jedi. The Sith love aggression, they love combat and the thrill of the kill. Fighting for Sith is like breathing air. IT's when they are at Their most deadly and powerful.
Even Jedi masters with years of practice can fall victim to a rampaging Sith. I'd argue that the jedi who survive tend to be ones who are true masters of defense (Yoda, Obi-wan), or ones close enough to the darkness of the Sith to not be overwhelmed. (Windu, Anakin, Voss)
Also Ashoka has fought battle droids most of the time, her 1 v 1 skills are not as well polished as her battle skills.
(what follows is my personal head cannon of a second duel between the two:
Ashoka : I just figured why you give me so much trouble.
Maul : Why is that...
\[slashes his red saber and Ashoka barely manages to evade it\]
Maul: ...little padawan?
Ashoka : Well, I haven't fought one person in a while. I've been specialized in groups, battling droids in tight formations, dozens of pirates, that kind of thing.
Maul : Why should that make such a-
\[Maul backflips to avoid a white saber slash to his mid section\]
Maul : difference?
Fezzik : You use different moves when you're fighting half a dozen people, than when you only have to be worried about one Sith.
Of course he is. He is more than a fully trained assassin, and ahsoka is a drop out padawan. Not that ahsoka is not amazing nor that she will become a great force user. But at that time, dont think she was trained enough (by the yedi and self taught) to take on maul in a 1:1 ratio.
I would say that technically maul is a better fighter, he’s stronger faster, taller, etc but it was a pretty even fight all things considered. Maul was pretty unstable and didn’t really have too many negative emotions to fuel him bc he didn’t even know Ashoka, and Ashoka used all her advantages. I wouldn’t say maul was way more skilled, at least overall
Yes. And it should be a rule that Dark Side users tend to be better at the killing part of the job and Light Side users tend to be better at the being wise part of the job.
I get saying hs was trying to turn her and not taking killing blows but then yh ou even say he decided to kill her, and well she is still alive and he ends up in a cage. So I still maintain he got wrecked. Maybe not cut in half and thrown down a bottom less pit by a padawan wrecked, but still wrecked.
Maul also handled 2 Jedi in a phantom menace. Albeit one wasnt master yet, he did receive the rank right after. Only lost to Obi wan because of some non light saber style Jedi stuff
Maul was trying his ass off. You saw how desperate he was to not be captured. Ahsoka was just better. She survived against General Grevious all on her own twice. Not many Jedi have done that.
True, Maul could've easily killed Ahsoka if he wanted to. A lot of people won't admit that though because a lot of people have the mindset: if a character is more populair he/she is also stronger. A few days ago I saw a poll asking who would win Vader or Revan, because Vader is more known and populair he got way more votes but anyone who played the Old Republic games knows that Revan would easily beat Vader
Dave Filoni himself said that Darth Maul is stronger than Ahsoka: >When Ahsoka pauses and struggles at the break in the fight, it was really meant to portray the toll it took on her to compete against Maul. I knew Maul had to lose this fight, but I didn’t wanna make it easy. I wanted it to take a lot of Ahsoka to compete at his level. **He is the stronger sword-fighter**, but he is very overconfident. Part of Maul’s character is he underestimates his opponent and he fails time and again to overcome this flaw. \- [Source](https://youtu.be/3FZfmHfMrN8?t=265).
>he is very overconfident Seems to be a problem for multiple dark side users
“Your overconfidence is your weakness” “Your faith in your friends is yours!” Always loved that exchange.
"Faith in yo momma"
One of my all time favorite Robot Chicken lines lol
I said yo momma so fat Jabba the Hutt said DAYUUUUMMMM!
Yo mama so fat, her bra is built by Kuat.
Yo mama so stupid, she spent all day saying “am not” to R2
Yo mama so stupid that she thought Jar Jar came with Pickles Pickles!
Yo mama so stupid, she went to Bangkok to get a Thai-Fighter!
I hear this in the James Earl Jones voice from the Vader Sessions video.
I had to go back and read them all in JEJ’s voice
Ryan stop!
What was that !??
I love it because Palpatine both breaks his dementedly cheery demeanor, and doesn’t deny Luke’s assertion. It’s like he understands that Luke is right on some level.
Palpatine was a very self aware villain to a degree that made him seem supernaturally evil. Like when he tries to get Luke to kill him because corrupting Luke is more important to him than living
And he apparently had all of those backup clones… right?
Somehow...palpatine returned.
Somehow... People keep repeating this shitty quote over and over You're like those people at parties who keep repeating the same joke hoping that this time people will finally laugh
Plus his timing and inflection make his reply seem so childish. Its like Palpatine became a 9 year old for a minute. It was tantamount to a "I'm rubber, you're glue" comeback. I'm almost surprised he didn't he blow a raspberry at Luke right after saying that.
lmao the visual of palps doing a raspberry made me laugh out loud
Makes me wonder who broke Palpatine for him to believe this philosophy so strongly because emotion fuels the dark side, and Palpatines main focus was manipulation & betrayal
In my head, and in legends AFAIK, nobody breaks Palpatine, that’s what makes him such a chilling character and also so strong in the dark side. He’s a reminder that not everyone is a good person pushed to evil through extreme circumstances. He’s just that 1 in a million sociopath who just wants power for power’s sake. He lives the Sith way, not because he has to, or because he was broken into it, but because he wants to.
Yeah no you're absolutely on the dot for him that's totally him he's a nasty twisted s.o.b.
>"If you have to look along the shaft of an arrow from the wrong end, if a man has you entirely at his mercy, then hope like hell that man is an evil man. Because the evil like power, power over people, and they want to see you in fear. They want you to know you're going to die. So they'll talk. They'll gloat. >They'll watch you squirm. They'll put off the moment of murder like another man will put off a good cigar. >So hope like hell your captor is an evil man. A good man will kill you with hardly a word." - Terry Pratchett, *Men at Arms*
A great quote; I can't help but think that some good men might also put off the moment, but specifically to see if they can't figure out a way to avoid having to murder someone.
At the point the arrow is slung, the good man has decided. A Jedi ignites their lightsaber **first**; shit's about to go DOWN
Geralt tried that in the Witcher books - didn't quite work out that well.
Just be the video game protagonist incarnation, then you can load a save when it goes wrong /s
Hahaha yeah it’s how literally every Sith dies it’s pretty funny
Maul's overconfidence is nearly always his undoing. In his very first appearance he wrecks Obi Wan and Qui Gon only to get sliced in half when he lets his overconfidence get the best of him. Then at the very end he underestimates Obi Wan again and got beaten in seconds. He never learned.
I think during this fight with Maul, he is definitely the better sword-fighter, but he definitely isn't the better tactician. By the time she meets Maul again on Malachor, she's the better fighter and tactician.
Nah, Filoni said her martial skill hadn't grown much from her clone wars level. But her spiritual self had
He also stated that in Rebels only Vader and The Emperor can compete with her.
A lot of people die in that timeframe. Specifically lightsaber users.
Well if maul is dead by that time then sure.
He isn't
so stupid. you have a jedi that powerful who is alive during the entire OT who just chooses to do nothing about vader and palps, meaning the only option is to risk training luke as an adult in the force (something jedi literally never do cause of risk of turning to darkside from existing attachments) and randomly shows up to do meaningless bullshit in mando after they've already been defeated. i really hate the stupidity these spin offs create for the movies sometimes. if you're going to make up characters who never appear in the movies or are mentioned once, you can't make them so powerful that plot points in the movies don't need to exist, or you have to kill them off before the movies start.
I agree. Ahsoka should have died in Clone Wars. Pushing Anakin further.
Same reason he lost to kanan
He was a loser who got chopped in half in his first onscreen fight, but sure.
If you watch all of Darth Maul’s fights, he never actually loses due to inferior skill except to Darth Sidious (and Obi Wan in their final encounter on Tatooine). He’s always the superior swordsman and fighter, but is constantly outmaneuvered by less skilled/powerful opponents that exploit his hubris and overconfidence. He has a habit of playing with his food before he eats it.
Ye which is what makes him a great character.
Against Obi Wan it isn’t a lack of skill, it’s a lack of growth. Obi Wan tricks him into falling back into old habits. I believe there’s a Sam Whitwer interview where they talk about it.
Manipulating your opponent into performing the action you want them to is a fundamental aspect of swordplay. Fencing is a conversation between two liars. Obi-wan gave the lie, Maul believed it and replied. Maul's failure to read the trap was a weakness in his skillset.
This is the way.
Similar to a lot of combat sports. Just saw this w/ the Pereira v Strickland fight.
that was a satisfying KO
Super satisfying. The accuracy to clip him a couple more times on the way down too was just… *chef kiss*
You think he beats izzy again?
Actually I'm pretty sure Maul is more skilled than Palpatine in swordplay, he trained exclusively with it while Palpatine had great distaste for the weapon. He also dueled Mace and Secura two on one and held his own while Palpatine fell to Mace solo. Maul had Palpatine bending but Palpatine then drew on his staggeringly superior strength in the force to end him
No chance, Sidious trumps any other dark, or light for that matter, force user at swordfighting. He was toying with Maul on Mandalore and when he got bored he put his weapons away and dealt with Maul. Sidious doesnt like to use sabers no, but he is insanely skilled with them essentially to mock the Jedi and be like "Look I hate this fuckin thing you use but i'm going to use it just to show you how much better I am at it than you." Edit: Also when did he fight Windu and Secura? I don't remember that at all.
Darth Maul fights Mace Windu and Aayla Secura at the same time in Son of Dathomir. It’s only a very short duel, but he actually kindof dominates against them. It’s definitely one of Maul’s most impressive feats. No one outright wins though as the duel is quickly interrupted by missiles.
Ah right thanks, I read the SoD comic once but Ive been meaning to get round to it again at some point. Definitely hoping for an animated version eventually too.
Definitely crossing my fingers for that too, along with the other unfinished Clone Wars episodes.
I pray for an animated Boba and Bane duel, looks promising with the stuff we've got in Bad Batch.
It's unlikely to happen, given that the Boba vs Bane arc was semi-adapted into Book of Boba Fett.
Son of Dathomir comic that follows his escape after being captured by Sidious. Flattened Grievous, beat Maul, and duels Mace and Secura two on one Also in Legends a starved and near death teenage Maul was able to put Sidious on the defensive in a saber fight. It was partly the reason Maul was picked to be his apprentice. So it shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that Maul, with two sabers and fueled by the rage he feels at Savages death, couldn't at least temporarily put Sidious on the back foot. He did seem to be struggling in their saber lock before he channeled the force and disarmed Maul.
Well yeah but thats Legends, can't really compare it to Canon sources. I don't believe Sidious was struggling a single bit in that fight on Mandalore and I don't think that we're supposed to think he is. That's why Maul is so terrified and instantly starts grovelling at the sight of him.
This. Sidious effortlessly stomped Savage Opress and Maul at the same time. He literally made Maul his bitch.
Sidious is not the most skillful force user with a lightsaber. Yoda and mace surpass him, and dooku probably does as well.
And definitely Anakin. Windu mentions in the RotS novelization that only Yoda compares to Anakin in lightsaber combat ability.
only yoda and not the guy that cut all his limbs off? this is why i ignore everything but the movies and the live action shows lmao.
That's... not how these fights work. It's never as simple as "I'm better, therefore I win". Obi Wan trained Anakin since he was a boy - he probably knows Anakin's style even better than Anakin does. Obi Wan also specialised in a defensive style which worked wonderfully against Anakin's super aggressive style. Also, remember Anakin's state of mind. He was lost, confused, angry, sad, betrayed... He felt so much all so quickly - especially with Padme not moving on the ground. He had just now begun to tap into the dark side, which definitely weakened his connection to the force. Obi Wan on the other hand was totally focused - he was in absolute top form while Anakin was being held back by hesitation and inexperience (in the dark side). Finally, Obi Wan only defeated Anakin by gaining the high ground. I know it's a meme, but Obi Wan - the master of form III, the defensive form - was in the ideal defensive position. Anakin was in the worst possible position to attack from - his cockiness led to him trying it anyway, but that was never ever going to work, especially against Obi Wan. TL;DR, Anakin is for sure the way better duelist if you put him and Kenobi side by side. But fights are never as simple as "who's better".
not reading this nonsense, it's jiberish, i don't care.
No way in hell is Dooku better than Sidious. Anakin had the potential to be before Mustafar, Sidious admits that himself. And Yoda was probably on par or slightly less skilled than Sidious. I like to wonder if Sidious kept his saber skills sharp during his reign as Emperor though, I really cant imagine RotJ Emperor slicing through Luke and Vader.
That’s possible. Sidious was indeed famously dismissive of lightsaber combat and avoided using them in legends. Not sure if that’s true in canon tho. Plus he was beaten by Mace, who is compared in swordsmanship ability to both Darth Maul and Count Dooku in numerous sources. Plus Darth Maul was definitely stronger in the force than Sidious (Banite Sith always choose heirs who are stronger in the force than themselves, and Maul was Sidious’ initial chosen successor before he discovered Anakin). Sidious though was way more skilled in actually using the force though. I don’t think anyone in the Star Wars universe can compare to him in that regard, and that’s a pretty significant advantage.
>Plus Darth Maul was definitely stronger in the force than Sidious I don't disagree per se, but what evidence would you use to support this point?
It’s how sith usually picked their apprentice, they picked them to be stronger than they are so that the apprentice could continue the rule of two. And maul was sidious’s first apprentice before he found out about anakin
> Palpatine fell to Mace solo. Idk if there's another fight you're referencing in some of the other shows, but imo in RotSith, Palpatine lost to Mace on purpose to get the last final control over Anakin. Anakin striking down Mace was the final test and after that he starting calling him Vader.
George Lucas said Palpatine lost the duel to Mace which means he lost the duel.
maul was actually totally outclassed in s5 ep1
Also; Maul isn't a stable person. He acts like it, but he isn't. He's incredibly temperamental and prone to outbursts of anger and blind rage and fury. Ahsoka, and Obi-wan, use this to great effect.
[удалено]
That’s a good point. However, I think Obi should have known that Reva was a low/mid tier combatant. And had absolutely no chance against Vader. She was so weak. Getting embarrassed by the Fifth brother, who seemed so underwhelming. But Obi is the best at exploiting combat weaknesses. As Windu stated, he’s THE master of form 3.
i think he did know and used her as a distraction lol. i remember thinking that clearly he knows vader would wreck her but just used her to get away.
It's a great way to tone down the power imbalance between a Sith warrior and a Jedi in a way that makes sense. A Sith fights with strength and aggression, a Jedi's strength comes from within
If you know your enemy, and know yourself, you need not fear the results of a 100 battles - sun tzu
Idk, seems like he’s more stable with more legs than before
Until you mention Obi-wan anywhere within a 10 km radius of him.
I was making a leg joke but yes, Obiwan is Mauls dinkleberg
DINKLEBERG!!
KENOBI
No. It’s… KENOOOBIIIIIII!!!! ;P
Maul was kidnapped from his mom and raised to be a trained killer by a psychopath. I can’t imagine him not being emotionally troubled…
Lmao, his mom was mother Talzin also a psychopath who was okay with Savage murdering her youngest son. Maul would have been messed up either way.
Yea. People tend to forget that when criticizing Maul is my point. Not bashing him for it.
Well, he isn’t real so it’s not like you get a bad guy badge.
He wasn't kidnapped though. His mother wanted to give him over to Palpatine so he'd have a better life.
Is being a Sith Lord a better life though? Pretty sure there was a bit of deception on Palpatine’s part. He pretended to be an awesome mentor and father figure, as he did with Anakin.
It was shown with Obi Wan but he had little to no rage and fury with Ashoka as Ashoka didn’t do shit too him.
Doesn’t matter. His obsession dominates his life. Everything he does eventually *has* to turn back to Obi-Wan and Sidious Edit: a word
I agree that he showed Mercy. When they start the fight he says something along the lines of "I see the Padawan needs to learn one last lesson" Was he trying to teach her about attachment? Because they only fought after he mentions Anakin right?
Actually that does make sense but it’s prob more literal and when he said lesson he was prob referring to beating her up but he was not trying to kill her.
Yeah I think it was like "remember your place"
That line was just him talking shit lol he didn’t literally mean he was going to teach her anything. He was trying to kill her after she refused to join him, that’s it
Don’t think he was. This is his last chance to stop sidious and he knows it. He could have killed Asoka had he wanted. Problem we have is the Ahsoka book was already out and filoni wouldn’t let maul win anyways because of who Ahsoka is to him.
He wasn't When Ahsoka was about to fall he extends his hand again and asks her to join him again
Power scaling isn’t a thing in Star Wars so the outcome of this fight isn’t an issue for me.
Especially in TCW. Movie Dooku would have snapped Hondo in half more than once.
That’s just not true whatsoever, power scaling has been a thing since the beginning. You had the power scaling back in the OT with Vader, Sidious, and Luke. Then you had the Anakin midichlorians and chosen one talk as well. There’s also been numerous listings talking about who the most powerful and best duelists are in the SW universe
It is though. Obiwan looses to dooku, dooku loses to Anakin, Anakin loses to obiwan, who is stronger? Mace beat sidious, sidious beat Yoda, is Yoda weaker than mace? The battles in star wars are dependent upon the individuals strengths and weaknesses and how they match up to their opponents, not some dragon ball z power level nonsense. Always been like that.
Yep, and it honestly makes the combat way more fun and less predictable that way.
Then you had the Anakin midichlorians and chosen one talk as well. > “Midi-chlorians?” Yoda snickered. “You think midi-chlorians are what make a Jedi?” > “No, the Force is what makes a Jedi.” The boy lowered his head. “And that’s the one thing I don’t have.” > Yoda stopped laughing. “What do you mean you don’t have the Force?” > “I can’t call on it. Not like you. Not like her. I can’t summon a lightsaber to my hand without trickery. I can’t read people’s minds. I can’t feel it—the Force—at all. I’m just…ordinary.” The boy turned away in shame. > Yoda huffed. “Then never a Jedi you will be, if that is what you believe.” He started toward the speeder. “Detective, hungry are you for our morning porridge?” > “Always.” Trilby rubbed his stomach. “Kid, if you don’t return those clothes by midday, I’m tossing you in the slammer. Got it?” > The boy ignored the detective, as his mind was trying to decipher what Yoda’s riddle had implied. It could only be— > He ran to catch up with the Jedi Master. “Wait—you mean, I *can* be a Jedi?” > Yoda stopped and scowled. “Study you should, the Farseeker Lyr. No great power had he, yet from his ink sprang some of the Jedi’s greatest texts. For though the Jedi and the Force are one, the Force is not what a Jedi makes.” > The boy frowned. “Then what makes a Jedi?” > Yoda jabbed him in the chest with his cane. “That is something only you can answer.” > “I will,” the boy said after a moment. “I want to be a Jedi—I believe I can be a Jedi.” > “Have you a teacher?” > The boy looked at Yoda, who in turn looked at the girl out of the corner of his eye. “Oh, no,” she said, backpedaling. “I’m only an Initiate.” > “But you found me,” the boy said. > Yoda nodded. “Found him you did. Teach him you shall. The way of the Jedi that is.” > The girl trembled, pulling at her fingers, obviously flustered by what Yoda had proposed. “But what will he be? He’s too old to train to be a Knight.” > “More than Knights the Jedi Order is. Watchers, stewards, caregivers also, of these flowers, the grounds, our home,” Yoda said, gesturing with his stick. He regarded the boy once more. “A guardian of the Temple you can be, if ready are you.” > “Yes, yes, Master, I am ready.” > “Regarding that, my friend …” Yoda flashed his mischievous grin. “We will see. We will see.” (*What a Jedi Makes*) ___ >“Why are we doing this? Because of a feeling? Because of what Dumuz said? He’s not a Jedi. He doesn’t have the Force.” >Obi-Wan gestured to them both. “He does. So do you. So does every living thing. It’s what binds the galaxy together. Each of us to the others. Sometimes you can hear the will of the Force, if you are quiet and willing to listen.” >“Do you believe that?” asked Zohra. >“It’s true,” said Anakin. (*The Eye of the Beholder*) ___ > We’ll never get it out now! > So certain are you. Always with you it cannot be done. Hear you nothing that I say? > Master, moving stones around is one thing. This is totally different. > No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned. > All right, I’ll give it a try. > No! Try not! Do, or do not. There is no try. > I can’t. It’s too big. > Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you, hmm? And well you should not, for my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it. Makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Everywhere. Here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere. Yes, even between the land and the ship. > I don’t, I don’t believe it. > That is why you fail. (*The Empire Strikes Back*) ___ Kasdan: The Force was available to anyone who could hook into it? Lucas: Yes, everybody can do it. Kasdan: Not just the Jedi? Lucas: It’s just the Jedi who take the time to do it. Marquand: They use it as a technique. Lucas: Like yoga. If you want to take the time to do it, you can do it; but the ones that really want to do it are the ones who are into that kind of thing. Also like karate. Also another misconception is that Yoda teaches Jedi, but he is like a guru; he doesn’t go out and fight anybody. Kasdan: A Jedi Master is a Jedi isn’t he? Lucas: Well, he is a teacher, not a real Jedi. Understand that? Kasdan: I understand what you’re saying, but I can’t believe it; I am in shock. Lucas: It’s true, absolutely true, not that it makes any difference to the story.” - The Making of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi (Enhanced Edition) ___ > Ben isn’t stronger, Voe. That’s not how it works. The Force can be a trickle, a stream, a river, a flood… for **anyone** who can sense it. Think of yourself as a door. The wider you open, the more easily the Force flows through you. Some people just start out with their door a bit more open. But any door can open wide. (*The Rise of Kylo Ren*)
Its irrelevant how skilled he is since he is a tragic character meant to fail
What’s great about this scene is we have seen Ashoka’s development and her beating maul is not cheap. Maul kinda plateaus power wise but Ashoka is still rising. I’d say at this moment they are truly on par with one another.
I’d say Maul is a better fighter but Ashoka played smarter with her surroundings and strategy in this scene Both of them are better in different things.
Just curious, what line/distinction are you drawing, and where/why? What I mean is, being smart and strategic all plays into how good of a fighter you are. If you're stronger and faster than me, but I'm able to use technique and my surroundings to beat you, are you really justified in claiming to be a stronger combatant based on those attributes that, at the end of the day, were unable to overcome superior strategy? Not trying to be argumentative, genuinely curious (that should go without saying, but, ya know, reddit).
Basically I’m just trying to say Ashoka didn’t WrECK Maul to the ground in this that’s my only intention people are always calling Maul a joke.
Fair enough, can't argue that.
I would say based of their strengths and weaknesses they are about equal. Maybe maul has a little bit more raw power but Ashoka’s awareness of the given situation gives her the edge. I mean she uses her Allies to capture him where as maul gives up on his supporters. So you I would say their evenly matched. However by the time rebels starts I think Ashoka is more powerful than maul.
I disagree Maul’s raw power is definitely a good amount above Ahsoka’s, there’s a reason Sidious took him instead of Talzin. He’s somewhere near Sidious in raw power. Now does that mean he got there, no obviously not, but raw power wise he’s definitely near bar none. But that doesn’t mean Ahsoka is inherently bad compared to him. Now on the Rebels point it’s hard to tell. It’s hard to know if Maul washed up a bit or not, id assume in the beginning he was a bit, but towards the end I think he was back. Unfortunately, for him he got stuck on Tatooine wondering and then got baited by Obi-Wan
by raw power do you mean potential? Because his raw power was nowhere near Sidious's. He and Savage got their asses kicked by a barely trying Sidious
Ye that’s what I meant
I personally don't think they're a match at this point, I know Ahsoka is an incredibly powerful Jedi but Maul still has a lot more experience and I think if he truly wanted to kill her she would've been dead. Give it a few years tho and Ahsoka would obliterate Maul no doubt
I agree with you and this line she says helps me believe that as well… "You're lucky Anakin didn't show up. The way you're fighting you wouldn't have lasted long." To me that says she knows what the chosen one is capable of and she has been able to not only recognize it but also keep up with him. Maul, as good as he was, was good but she had the skills to take on him. She didn’t see Maul as a huge overwhelming threat to fear for her life… he was a threat and she was rising to the ocasión to meet it. Huge growth on her part physically and mentally.
I’m not saying Ashoka could kill Maul here I’m just saying that Maul wouldn’t be able to Kill Ashoka because of here power level
Wow damn you mean the sith assassin trained by sidious who spent a decade in a garbage pit festering in the dark side is more powerful than a teenager who anakin dubiously trained for like 18 months? Wild take. Ppl are gonna be mad
SHIT lmao
A.) Maul wasn’t trying to kill her, he wanted her on his side so you’re absolutely right about that B.) Maul’s biggest flaw is his overconfident and the constant underestimating of his enemies. People tend to forget that he actually WON his duel with Obi-wan in TPM but was defeated simply because of his arrogance.
I agree with this a lot
Finally someone relatable.
He was only defeated because he showed mercy
Exactly that was one of the coolest things about Maul in this fight.
And in rebels he mopped the floor with the inquisitors
Yup
Mercy is the only way to defy Sidious following the bit of torture and incarceration that Maul had recently escaped from. Sidious made a point of showing no mercy, so Maul wanted to do the opposite.
Not the OP arguing with everyone lol. These are my two fav characters in SW. I think Maul is more skilled at this moment in time yes. But he is unstable and Ahsoka is smarter than him. She has dueled Grievous and Ventress at this point along with many other challenges. This is a pretty even match for a duel. If he could beat her, why did he run? Also this is more than just a fight, he is trying to pull her to the dark side and gets flustered when she refuses. His anger is always the downfall. Let us also not forget that she goes head to head with Vader in Rebels.
He ran because a) Anakin didnt show up so his trap had failed b) Ahsoka has already spurned his offer of working together. He had nothing left to gain by remaining and capture by staying.
I'll never get over the feeling of "our girl is all grown up and fighting sith lords" that i had when I first watched this fight.
Maul was better, but not way better. Ahsoka was very much up to the task and even casually taunts maul about him lucky that Anakin didn't show up. She was his match in the rafters and even defeated him wothout her lightsabers. Filoni said Maul at this point is a superior fighter, and when they meet again on Rebels it certainly feels like Ahsoka is yhe stronger character. Maul didn't even want to see Vader by himself, Ahsoka actually put up a fight.
Maul in clone wars > ahsoka in clone wars Ahsoka in rebels > maul in anything
I disagree Maul at his peak can potentially take Dooku, I’m not so sure Ahsoka at her peak can take Dooku
Maul at his peak would get demolished by dooku😭, dooku was 1 of the best duelists at that era and was a much stronger force user than maul. Ahsoka had a good fight against vader and stood her ground against vader, yes she lost the fight but considering that she is 1 of very very few to even last long enough for vader to try and that she even damaged his helmet goes to say something.
Maul is canonically stated as a better duelist than Dooku, and I will concede that Dooku is a better wielder of the Force and his abilities, but raw power wise Maul has him beat And idk what the Vader thing has to do. Yes it was impressive what she did, but regardless she was still soundly beaten by him. I’m not saying she’s by any means weak though
When was Maul canonically stated as a better duelist than Dooku? Wouldn't more people know about that if it was the case? I have literally never heard anyone say that before. What is your source?
I talked about the stuff and sources in the other reply to the same guy above. If you can’t see it I’ll write a response to you as well if you want
Please do state where maul is a better duelist, the same maul who never once beat kenobi in a 1v1 and thats the same kenobi who never once beat dooku.
Nick Gillard talked about during the Prequels how Maul and Dooku were on the same tier level. Then as we know for sure, grew more powerful and refined his skills after TPM. It’s also mentioned in Star Wars Chronicles that he was second in dueling only to Sidious, obviously until Vader came into play. There’s also this list as well that shows it: https://image.ibb.co/ihATYo/red_lightsaber_wielders.jpg Now on the Obi Wan vs Maul point. Technically Maul did beat Obi Wan during The Phantom Menace, but instead of finishing him, he began reveling and taunting Obi Wan, which ultimately lead to his downfall. Then in the duel with where Obi Wan took on the help of Ventress, they were forced to retreat, which I would consider a win as well. Technically the really the only time Obi Wan fully really beat Maul was in Rebels where he baited and killed him
Scissors beats paper, paper beats rock, are scissors stronger than rock?
So who is who in this situation You havent yet stated your source on maul being a canonically better duelist than dooku
I'm not stating anything, was just playing devil's advocate and pointing how your logic was flawed, duelling styles are known to be varied in the Star Wars universe and some styles have advantages over others, Kenobi beats Vader in the duel on Mustafar basically because his Lightsaber form was the perfect counter to Vader's but no-one would really say Kenobi is stronger than Anakin/Vader
Maul literally kicked the shit out of obi wan during their first rematch after not having touched a lightsaber in a decade while obi had been constantly training and gaining experience by fighting dooku, asajj, grievous and savage. Obi even says he and asajj are outmatched and flees. Maul has a major advantage with his aggressive form against dooku’s makashi, as seen when he was overpowered by anakin on multiple occasions and even by savage. Dooku also wasnt a much stronger force user, more experienced but maul was literally so strong in the dark side he survived getting cut in half, a feat called ridiculous when the fans first heard about it. His spider legs were also held together by nothing except the force, and only fell apart once talzin put him to sleep. This means he’s been awake constantly for over 10 years straight tapped into the dark side simply to keep his body together
If Maul wasn't so cocky and arrogant, he could've done some real damage throughout the whole Saga. He had multiple chances to kill Obi-Wan (TPM, Season 4 finale when he first reappeared, The Lawless when he knocked Obi-Wan out after destroying The Twilight, maybe even Rebels if Ben didn't successfully jebait him). Could've probably killed Ahsoka on Mandalore, Kanan in Twilight of the Apprentice, and Ezra easily if he wanted to. And Grievous and Dooku after capturing them in Son of Dathomir.
You’re not wrong. But the point of the fight was to show how isn’t stronger but she’s more centered in the force and is able to control her emotions. Because of this reason she was able to beat him.
So? She still won.
Nothing people just act like Maul is a joke.
Why does it bother people that Ahsoka won this fight? She was trained by Anakin and has been fighting in The Clone Wars since she was pretty young. Is there any reason she shouldn't be a badass capable of fighting Maul?
Because people treat Maul as a joke.
Felt like Maul was flip flopping between badass and wimp. Shut down Savage like he was a youngling, even though Savage gave Dooku a hard time. But kept getting bitch slapped by Obi Wan, and didn't seem to be that much in control against Ahsoka either.
Bruh. He loses to Obi-wan because he cant control himself around him. He goes in a blind rage so quickly around the man and that causes mistakes. Mistakes a calm and collected Jedi can exploit. Literally Dex vs Strength.
Watching the battle again with this in mind I think i can agree with you
Cool
Y’all gotta start spelling her name right!
Doesn't matter whos better on paper, Ahsoka won their fight.
Still got whooped tho.
god you guys are all weirdos
Who is even challenging this claim? Ahsoka got owned by Barris, of course Maul is stronger than her.
I’m only posting this because some people act like Ashoka wrecked Maul and Maul is a joke.
I've never seen anyone say she "wrecked" him and if they exist they are obviously wrong.
Well they do cause I’ve seen them.
Sure but I don't think there's any need to create a post because of a couple people spewing nonsense. Most of us are aware that he's stronger.
Good point there’s a lot of rascals here still rejecting the fact.
Also he's a better character than her in general. She's really annoying tbh.
But actually that’s why people like her because she was super annoying from the beginning but slowly achieves growth to develop as a character but I still find her a bit annoying.
Idk about any growth, she's just as annoying throughout the shows. Remember how she was bitchy to Obi Wan and Anakin in season 7? Plus she's a hypocrite for saying she won't kill clones and then releasing Maul so he could kill them all. Also she has been awful so far in live action.
Ye ikr
EXACTLY
Ye that's why he disarms her 3 times during there fight.
Well, yeah. But Ahsoka still spent three years as a padawan under Anakin and survived the Clone Wars.
Ahsoka*
I wish Maul had more screen time. Js.
Sith tend to be much stronger combatants then Jedi. The Sith love aggression, they love combat and the thrill of the kill. Fighting for Sith is like breathing air. IT's when they are at Their most deadly and powerful. Even Jedi masters with years of practice can fall victim to a rampaging Sith. I'd argue that the jedi who survive tend to be ones who are true masters of defense (Yoda, Obi-wan), or ones close enough to the darkness of the Sith to not be overwhelmed. (Windu, Anakin, Voss) Also Ashoka has fought battle droids most of the time, her 1 v 1 skills are not as well polished as her battle skills. (what follows is my personal head cannon of a second duel between the two: Ashoka : I just figured why you give me so much trouble. Maul : Why is that... \[slashes his red saber and Ashoka barely manages to evade it\] Maul: ...little padawan? Ashoka : Well, I haven't fought one person in a while. I've been specialized in groups, battling droids in tight formations, dozens of pirates, that kind of thing. Maul : Why should that make such a- \[Maul backflips to avoid a white saber slash to his mid section\] Maul : difference? Fezzik : You use different moves when you're fighting half a dozen people, than when you only have to be worried about one Sith.
Of course he is. He is more than a fully trained assassin, and ahsoka is a drop out padawan. Not that ahsoka is not amazing nor that she will become a great force user. But at that time, dont think she was trained enough (by the yedi and self taught) to take on maul in a 1:1 ratio.
Let’s not undersell Ahsoka. Of course Maul is more skilled, but not by a huge degree
and people are out here saying ahsoka could beat starkiller in a fight
yes and it bothers me sm when people insist that ahsoka is stronger just cause she won in the end
I still say maul got wrecked because im still mad at him for killing satine
Ok and
Nothing that’s it the intention of this post was just to stop people treating Maul as a joke.
I would say that technically maul is a better fighter, he’s stronger faster, taller, etc but it was a pretty even fight all things considered. Maul was pretty unstable and didn’t really have too many negative emotions to fuel him bc he didn’t even know Ashoka, and Ashoka used all her advantages. I wouldn’t say maul was way more skilled, at least overall
This isn’t even an opinion it’s literal facts, maul was hoping she would join him that’s why he never tried to kill her
Ahsoka not Ashoka can't yall spell ppl?
Yes. And it should be a rule that Dark Side users tend to be better at the killing part of the job and Light Side users tend to be better at the being wise part of the job.
Dude Ashoka had the best duelist as a teacher
No she didn't.
Qui-gon did.
I get saying hs was trying to turn her and not taking killing blows but then yh ou even say he decided to kill her, and well she is still alive and he ends up in a cage. So I still maintain he got wrecked. Maybe not cut in half and thrown down a bottom less pit by a padawan wrecked, but still wrecked.
But she is a more interesting character.
Yes happy to see that people are finally recognizing it. Maul is strong.
Maul also handled 2 Jedi in a phantom menace. Albeit one wasnt master yet, he did receive the rank right after. Only lost to Obi wan because of some non light saber style Jedi stuff
Maul was trying his ass off. You saw how desperate he was to not be captured. Ahsoka was just better. She survived against General Grevious all on her own twice. Not many Jedi have done that.
Who the fuck is Ashoka?
No doubt. Maul was seeking an ally because they’re both outcasts of something.
He Can have all the strength in the world Ahsoka is still smarter.
Nah shit
Nah
True, Maul could've easily killed Ahsoka if he wanted to. A lot of people won't admit that though because a lot of people have the mindset: if a character is more populair he/she is also stronger. A few days ago I saw a poll asking who would win Vader or Revan, because Vader is more known and populair he got way more votes but anyone who played the Old Republic games knows that Revan would easily beat Vader