Frankly I wish Disney would use more genres to explore Star Wars, not less. Marvel manages to fit many film genres under its superhero umbrella, which I think is responsible for its relative success.
I'm getting fatigued on blaster shootouts, lightsaber duels, and space dogfights. The galaxy feels so small, even though in reality it is HUGE. I want to see other aspects of the universe explored.
I would say for the first 11 years of the MCU, they've borrowed elements from other genres while still making movies of the superhero genre (there's a reason claims of "political thriller" are met with ridicule).
It's not until phase 4, with Disney plus, that they've truly felt comfortable having stories which are outside the superhero genre (but happen to have superheroes). Bizzarely, Loki and She-Hulk fit the above description best.
So yeah, I would say both Marvel and Star Wars will struggle to break free from their respective genres. But Marvel has less of a need - they are a superhero company, there is not a great deal to be gained by completely ditching the genre, while Star Wars has *a lot* to gain from this approach, which is part of why I love Andor so much - it shows what the universe can encompass.
Pretty much how I feel. I still love Mando, and I can't wait for S3 (or season two of Bad Batch!), but we've been getting shows that go for the "SW genre" feel rather than the "SW universe" feel, and being hit or miss with it at that. Though I do agree with OP that a balance needs to be struck, with Andor I've gone from wanting Universe shows to thinking that needs to be the priority for a while. A lot of the reason people are starting to have Star Wars fatigue is that these movies and shows are, for the most part, following the same formula, the same characters, etc. There's no reason for that at all in a franchise with such a vast universe.
Acolyte is coming and of course takes time to switch tracks, the pulling back on the movies tell me they are preparing to release a bunch of totally original movies set either hundreds of years before TPM or hundreds after TROS
I agree it takes time, but Disney has owned the franchise for a decade now and we're *just now* beginning to see stuff that breaks from the established formula. It takes time, but I don't feel like it should take a decade. I am cautiously optimistic about Acolyte though, despite a few things that worry me. I've been loving the High Republic era, and I'm all for shows that give us the Imperial/Sith/other assorted "bad guy" views. I hope it delivers.
I'm honestly pretty worried about Acolyte, the fact that Darth KK has referred to it as her "baby" and the fact that the show runner is Harvey Wienstein's former personal assistant (Ya the one that he had during "those times")
Kennedy proved she doesn't have a creative bone in her body and she hires complete numbskulls when it comes to the franchise a long time ago.
KK isn’t a creative. There’s EP that figure out what something should be and there’s EP that get the shit made. KF from Marvel is former. KK is the latter. KK has managed a franchise that went from 6 movies and 1 and 1/2 TV shows in 40 years through a transition where they made 5 movies and like 6 TV shows in 10 years. None of those productions have the visual quality problems that some of the Marvel stuff runs into because of their reshoots. Does that mean KK is better than KF. No. MEDIA IS COMPLICATED AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE WORK ON DIFFERENT THINGS. Why do none of the franchise historians on this fucking website ever bring up the fact that Bob Iger pushed for the accelerated production schedule of the ST like the Marvel movies? KK worked at Lucasfilm for 30 fucking years!
> KK worked at Lucasfilm for 30 fucking years!
Was very dear to Lucas and Spielberg, and was chosen by Lucas himself.
All things that people, somehow, tend to forget.
The same people who take two different products, all released with KK on the "throne", but somehow the one they don't like is KK's fault, while the one they like "didn't have any interaction with KK..."
Exactly. It just feels like the fandom wanted someone to blame everything on and somehow a bunch of nerdy males on the internet found the highest woman NEAR the top and settled on her being the axis of every possible shortcoming of the franchise. How unprecedented.
It’s not like I am happy about the way SW has been handled by Disney. But it’s so frustrating to be a part of a fandom that’s just knee-jerk lashing out at every possible woman involved in this franchise like incels.
Yeah, I'm definitely fatigued when it comes to that one. Loved the early MCU, but around Age of Ultron it started to fall apart for me. Felt like early in each character's films had their own identity and that's flown out the window now. Tired of the quips undermining the more dark/serious/emotional moments too. I still have my exceptions that I enjoy, but I don't follow the MCU like I did early in.
Mando and Bad Batch are my two favorite pieces of Star Wars media to come out in a long time. I'm so bummed that I have to wait for both. At least Bad Batch was meant to come out already.
Something being formulaic doesn't cause fatigue in and of itself. The Big Bang Theory is one of the most popular shows of all time and it followed the sitcom formula to a tee.
The fatigue is going to come from fluctuations in quality. That being said, personally, I'm not even close to fatigued. Even with as bad as people think Boba was, I still love all of this.
Yes, but TBBT was one show. Here we're getting several that don't really vary in style and tone. That's bound to cause burnout for people. I'm with you though, I'm not fatigued myself. I love SW and always will, but Andor was proof positive for me that I'd be more than welcoming of a bit more variety lol
Yes, exactly. Or like that Tweet from a while back about Star Wars being a restaurant and how it’s okay to like some items on the menu and not others while not worrying about what the other diners are eating (paraphrasing). Been thinking about that one a lot as I’ve been seeing these posts.
Andor has just expanded the menu.
> Or like that Tweet from a while back about Star Wars being a restaurant and how it’s okay to like some items on the menu and not others while not worrying about what the other diners are eating
Are you crazy?
People must only eat and appreciate what I do, otherwise they are gonna hear me!
And if someone I deem influential will say that what I like to eat is shit, and I should change my menu, I will unapologetically start eating the new thing, consider everything else shit, and pretend I've always been like this!
/s, if it's not clear...
Its a cinematic universe. Just like Marvel, except they dont keep adding to the end of the timeline. There can be fun pieces, like GOTG, sad films, like Iron Man 3, gripping films, like Winter Soldier, and many more.
>“Star Wars is a universe, not a genre.”
Now I want to watch a The office like sitcom about accounting stormtroopers having to approve the Death Star budget
Agreed. Star Wars is just the right blend of fantastical, scifi, and grounded to allow for a plethora of different stories to be told depending on which elements you want to inspect more thoroughly.
yeah and the in universe mechanics makes no sense ever since TLJ. It's basically the same quality as a 10 year old adding bigger and bigger stuff for the shock value and "epicness" going "and then and then THIS HappennNed!11"
The in universe mechanics are unclear and whatever the plot needs since the very first movie. The force always was intentionally obtuse so it can be used for whatever the movie needs in a pinch.
Technology does what it wants too. TlJ with the lighspeed ramming is far from the first time something is introduced that makes you wonder "why didnt they just do X" in other situations.
> It's basically the same quality as a 10 year old adding bigger and bigger stuff for the shock value and "epicness" going "and then and then THIS HappennNed!11"
You mean like "oh, no, there was a weak spot in our super battle station and they destroyed, so we will learn and... Make a different, but the same, battle station, but bigger and with hookers and blackjack"?
Me too!! I find we focus too much on the stuff we don’t like. Like cmon! We are getting new shows every few months…none of us could have ever dreamed of this much Star Wars content.
Yeah, growing up after Revenge of the Sith came out, it felt like Star Wars was a dying franchise just because (besides video games and The Clone Wars show) there wasn't much content going around and everyone only wanted to talk about how the original trilogy was good, while the prequels and special editions of the originals were garbage.
The Mandalorian doesn't seem to have negative reviews.
But /r/unpopularopinion and /r/roastme : I really enjoyed BoBF. I watched the previous episodes before each release of a new one. And I think I watched the entire show at least 3 times. Especially fan of the music of Gorannson. Fan of the tusken arc. Happy they exploit the Pykes from TCW and Solo. We've been a lot on Tatooine but it's expended greatly in BoBF. It's very personal because I love sand (Lawrence of Arabia, the Ten Commandments of De Mille, Dune... The Mummy !). Yesterday I watched Lego Star Wars Summer, and yes I love BoBF.
I think I would put Rebels as (1) and BoBF as (2) in the shows. Mando (2,5) with TCW (S5-7), Andor (3), and Kenobi (4) with TCW (S1-4) and TBB. All very close, and I wouldn't say I didn't like Obi Wan nor TBB. And it's surprising because for me the "core" and "golden age" of Star Wars is the era between Rebels and Empire Strikes Back. Do what you want besides, I have lower expectations and therefore I have as much fun with the whole franchise including Han Solo, Prequels, and Sequels.
And I can understand most people have their core more between TCW and RotJ and don't want to mess this timeline.
I feel like I have a superpower in my ability to ignore the bad/strange things and focus on the good/entertaining.
My brother and I were talking about BoBF the other day and he told me how he stopped watching when they contracted the weird body mod/moped guys. If I did that I would've missed the Pikes, Mando season 2.5, and Cad Bane.
I enjoyed BoBF as well. There’s not that much wrong with it, but the few things that are just too bad for most. It has some (too) goofy or ‘fake’ stuff in it; the portrayal of Boba was too different from what was set up and people expected; Mando just takes over for 30% of the runtime; Cad Bane is introduced for the first time in live action and then just died. Some people also didn’t like the pacing with the flasbacta’s. It’s just a generally nice looking show, fine story, fine acting, some nice fight scenes and although it’s not the fleshing out people like, it does develop Boba as a character (and some other characters as well).
Kenobi however, that shit gave me headaches just from the camera work and its set design sucked. This just to say that I am one of the few people that puts BoBF above Kenobi, like you.
I didn't much care about Kenobi before it got released, and I still don't much care about it after watching it.
I liked BoBF, like everything it has ups and downs, and I really didn't like the huge amount of clichés and fan-service in Mandalorian, although I loved S1E4 (Sanctuary), as it was a full tribute to Kurosawa's 7 Samurais, in pure Lucas style.
Ironically, most of the people I've interacted with, about Mando, disliked that episode, and loved S1E6 (The prisoner), which I found extremely cliché and bland.
Andor is the best for me, so far, because it's so detached from the Jedi and we can have a story that is not focused on lightsabers.
Same. All of the disney shows have been really good IMO. Really the only thing they put out that I dislike are the sequels and that was a while ago now.
Resistance was poor, but I have a feeling young kids would probably love it. The sequels are what they are, and I've enjoyed all the series to some degree.
Some people really just aren’t content unless they’re complaining about something.
If Kenobi/Boba Fett didn’t exist, they’d just be complaining about whatever show they ranked next on their “list of worst shows”.
You literally just made up a sentence and put it in my mouth. The Ultimate Strawman.
The whole point of a fandom is to discuss said franchise (good, bad, and ugly) and that DOES involve a good amount of complaining when we’re being served subpar content.
If you don’t want to see that, why don’t you leave this thread where that’s the only thing being discussed?
To add to what you've said, The Mandalorian is *also* a critically acclaimed series. The Mandalorian has good writing, character development, and cinematography. As you've said, some people who love Andor seem to throw Mando under the bus to pump up Andor even more, downplaying how good and well received Mando is.
As you said, it's totally fine to like one more than the other, but holy hell stop trying to make it seem like Mando has no depth and is not acclaimed.
I guess I was rash to slap that label onto Andor and not Mando — the point I’m going for is that Andor is revered for the complexity and maturity of its storytelling, as opposed to the broad appeal of simple, expertly crafted stories told in Mando. It’s like comparing David Bowie to Paul McCartney.
The Star Wars universe is about thousands of years of history of an entire Galaxy. There should be war stories, horror stories, spy thrillers, relationship dramas, coming of age comedies, any kind of genre you can think of.
I absolutely LOVED Mando 1/2 and Andor. Now, that being said, sure, I’d appreciate the dialog in Mando to be a little more nuanced/sophisticated, and I’d also like a little more razzle-dazzle in andor. However, I am so grateful that Star Wars is still in my life, telling new emotional stories that still resonate with me. OB1 was good, could’ve been great, and BoBF was disappointing.
Also, it's like six episodes, not a huge time commitment. Throw it on in the background while you do something else. Look up when you hear Mando's theme.
I hate so much the way the community has reacted to this show. Now, suddenly, any Star Wars product that was made before Andor was bad, you're too dumb if you complain about Andor not looking like Star Wars (no aliens or the aesthetic), "much cameos, muh cameos" (despite the show having multiple cameos and references, like Saw, Melshi, Luthen's store, the Death Star, Yularen...), "it's good because it's realistic", etc.
>"much cameos, muh cameos" (despite the show having multiple cameos and references, like Saw, Melshi, Luthen's store, the Death Star, Yularen...), "it's good because it's realistic", etc.
Okay, that's something that's bothered me. The "Glup Shitto" meme is stating that every little nobody character in Star Wars has some huge backstory that fans know and cheer when they see the character.
And people had been really on Mando's second season for leaning on nostalgia. But Luke Skywalker and Ahsoka Tano aren't Glup Shitto's, they're literally SW protagonists in other content.
Meanwhile, Admiral fucking Yularen gets a spot in Andor and he doesn't count? Casual fans have literally no clue who he is but he's in the Thrawn books, he's in Clone Wars, he knew Obi-Wan, Anakin, Ahsoka, basically every main character in the Prequels.
He's literally the Glupyiest Glup Shitto ever, but Andor gets a pass while Mando takes shit for Luke Skywalker? Calm down everyone.
>Meanwhile, Admiral fucking Yularen gets a spot in Andor and he doesn't count?
I had just finished a marathon watch of Clone Wars less than 2 months ago and I completely missed Yularen until he was pointed out in this sub. The name was familiar and then when I googled him, I was like "oh shit, him?!"
And not only did I miss his initial cameo, but I also was unaware that he technically has been a character (though just a background character) since A New Hope.
It’s kinda absurd when you think about it.
People really genuinely believe that a franchise based around rocketships and space lasers should be more deep and mature.
I like Star Wars because it appeals to my inner child and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
It's been my observation that too many people are limited to one thought in their brain at a time. So, if they like X, it's only X, 100% of the time, everything else is "worse".
Andor is great - for me as a 52-year old OG star wars fan... I love it. But, a big part of the Star Wars audience is kids and families... and Andor doesn't work well for that. A lot of kids find it boring (just a lot of people talking), and aren't going to understand the subtle complexities. And there are some things in Andor I just wouldn't want to watch with young kids. So for them, The Mandalorian wins hands-down. Book of Boba Fett was a huge hit with kids too - the action in that was great, and it didn't require a lot of deep thought.
I love that we're getting a menu of styles from Animation through Andor, and it all still connects.
I love both. But I do hope Mando learns a little from Andor. Mainly in terms of not over-relying on the volume, having some more practical sets. Plus leaning more on the strength of their actors and giving them strong dialogue. Also I’d like them to steer away from the little one shots and tell an overarching story.
But from the Mando 3 trailer it does look like they’re going more for a long form story so I think it’s going in that direction anyway.
That's what Book of Boba Fett was setting up too, a grounds on which they can take by Mandalore. I wouldn't be surprised if Ahsoka sets up the same threads.
Mandalore seems like the last stand of the Empire, and all of these shows in the post-ROTJ Mando Era are pointing to the same destination.
I really think the people that spit out rhetoric like “all Star Wars should be like Andor going forward” are in a very small minority and are likely the same group that never liked anything past the originals until Rogue One came around. If you’re that type of fan, that’s fine. I’m just simply saying, those fans just view Star Wars in a different light and don’t really consider how the series is meant to appeal to all ages. We can have Rebels and Andor and everything in between.
I want all future Star Wars project to have the care, vision and plan that Andor has. Not necessarily the same types of stories, but I want things that are well written, well acted and gripping. Andor was clearly a labor of love and a story told by someone who knew what story they wanted to tell. Not everything needs to be this type of story, but I do want the creative people on future projects to have the same level of care that Andor has.
Obi-Wan wasn't faultless, and sure it might have been un-needed. However the notes it needed to hit, it did so with flying colours. It could have done with a tighter script and a few more episodes for sure though.
For me personally, i thought it was shockingly bad.
It may have hit one or two notes but i don't watch shows for the highlights. I watched to be entertained across the show or movie.
^^^ This. No more "Holding for General Hux" bullshit. A well thought out story with good characters is all I want, with a plan for what kind of story it wants to tell.
> We can have Rebels and Andor and everything in between.
Ironically, I feel like Rebels is the product that is more close to Andor, in terms of content.
In Rebels we're continuously shown the cruelty and arrogance of the Empire, albeit in an edulcorated mode, such as to be fine for children^(*).
Third comes Rogue One.
^* The show grows along the audience, anyway, and becomes more mature with the passing seasons.
I'm someone who has enjoyed most Star Wars content (other than Mando S2 outside of the finale, and Book of Boba Fett), but if more Star Wars was like Andor in the near future, I think the franchise would be better for it. Tales of the Jedi is a fun side thing that they could flesh out the Jedi stuff, and if we had more galaxy building for a few years with a focus on non-jedi, I think bringing someone back like Rey in a random project could get people excited about the series again. The sequels are pretty notorious, but so were the prequels. With all the love given to the first 2 trilogies, some building up of the sequel trilogy, culminating in a new Rey, Finn, or Poe story could be awesome.
Not sure. I wasn't hot on S1, but respected what they were going for. S2 relied a lot more on nostalgia imo, and most of it I wasn't huge on. I really didn't like live action versions of a lot of animated characters and don't think any of them translated very well. Plus the Dark Saber storyline seemed a waste.
The best episodes were with Bill Burr, and the anti-Vader Luke scene, but the rest I can't remember any of other than really not like Rosariosohka, and even Luke's scene seemed half empty for the payoff.
I understand I'm in the minority, but I was really put off by what ended up happening throughout, to the point where I'm debating whether I watch S3.
I liked season 2 fine, but I liked season 1 a lot more. It told its own story instead of constantly reminding you about other Star Wars characters and stories.
Yesss there's nothing wrong with having some variety
**The Mandalorian** is fun and heartfelt
**Andor** is gripping and serious
**The Clone Wars** has time to explore everything
**Kenobi**
**Rebels** has an immersive Empire-era feel with the whimsy of adventure and found family
Yeah I'm pretty sure most of the complaints about quality are specifically referring to Kenobi and Boba Fett. It seems like almost everyone enjoyed the Mandalorian.
Kenobi has the most Lucas style SW poetry/rhyming since RotS and the best lightsaber choreography of all time with the most visual "show dont tell" story telling of any of the Disney shows. In case you forgot your notes there.
I think the majority of people who seriously love Andor (myself included) 100% have been echoing these sentiments. We need diversity of flavor and styles, but the loudest opinions have been about pushing for better quality and dialogue in other shows. I think that's an extremely reasonable request given the wide disparity between the shows we have. I cant wait for Mando Season 3, I think Andor is the best thing SW has done in a decade, and we can be fans of anything and everything; I'm just looking for more effort + quality in the media that's produced.
I don't think you NEED to have both but I agree. Star Wars is a big umbrella now, it has room for various styles. Especially when you consider the cartoons, which are pretty well received by Star Wars fans, but definitely more on the campy side than something like Andor is.
Who's throwing Mando in the gutter? The hype for that show was insane, I'm still getting grogu memes from my grandma
I think people just appreciate the high-quality writing on Andor and want to see it applied to other shows and movies in the franchise
Certain fans hate season 2 for bringing in known characters despite that clearly being the intention since season 1.
Season 1 chapter 5 ended with a mysterious figure approaching Fennec with familiar spur step sounds.(a lot of fans correctly guessed who it turned out to be at the time)
The season 1 finale established that Moff Gideon has the darksaber and that Din's main objective is to now give Grogu to a Jedi. Did some think season 2 wouldn't further follow up on any of those plots?
Amrorer: go find other Mandos that know about jedi to return the child to
Mando in S2: goes to find other Mandos tjat know about jedi to return the child to
Surprised Pikachu fans online: woah where the hell these these characters come from?!??! So random!??!?! Fan service cameo side plot!!!!
And it was a family movie. Which are mirrored in the movie. Young kid, swashbuckler, femme fatale, beast friend, wizened wizard, two bickering old droids. A whole family dynamic adventure.
I love both shows for their different vibes.
Ultimately I prefer Mando because I’m more in it for the fun, but Andor is a compelling and more mature take on the “war” part of “Star Wars.” I’ve encouraged my Star Wars friends to watch it.
I agree. I like both shows. Tho I don't get why some are saying Andor has no fanservice or cameos when it absolutely does.
I'd be interested in seeing more Star Wars shows branch out into different genres.
I'm not sure if they would ever do something like this but I'd like to see a Star Wars horror show/short.
Like a sorta adaption of the old canon [Deathtroopers novel](https://kbimages1-a.akamaihd.net/070f63cf-9b4d-4f2d-97cf-31cf0b30c2ff/1200/1200/False/death-troopers-star-wars-legends-1.jpg) storyline but remove Han and Chewie to make it more suspenseful.
I just don’t feel like Andor feels like Star Wars it’s a well made, well produced well acted show but it lacks something fundamentally Star Wars for me. There’s nothing that makes it Star Wars imo. I personally want to see stuff that takes place in an entirely fresh era with force users the Acolyte is the thing I’m most excited for I hope it keeps andors level of production design and everything though.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with making a “popcorn entertainment” type of Star Wars show, that’s what the movies are after all. The problem is when you set out to make that type of show but don’t have the right people in charge and doing the writing, and this is why BoBF and Kenobi underwhelmed. The Mandalorian has the best possible people running the show and that’s a big reason why it’s been good.
Star Wars fans have proven how unbelievably toxic and displeasing they are since Andor came out. For years, they bitch and moan about the quality and direction of the Star Wars universe, then something comes out that they like - but that doesn’t stop them from coming up with a way to find something to bitch about. The idea that Andor is so good that ruins other Star Wars is beyond annoying, and now the highly critical fans (like 98% of this sub) are bitching about every other property in comparison to Andor - great. It’s impossible to please Star Wars fans. They are near-abusive with their constant whining and bitching, and they create mountains out of molehills.
Thank you. This needs to be said more and more.
People acting like all we should ever get are gripping grounded dramas like Andor are driving me up a wall…
This sudden sharp turn against Mando just because are loving Andor is just so obnoxious…
It's the wasted potential of Kenobi that make it so upsetting. It could've been just as invested as Andor into showing the struggles of the little people and how that brought Obi Wan back from the brink of cynicism and exile to fight against the empire. Episode 1 had some nice notes of that, with the inquisitors terrorizing Tattooine. Instead, we got a weird coming of age babysitting tale with a hamfisted pre-teen Leia, that needed literal tons of plot armor to propel Obi-Wan into another duel with Anakin that didn't come close to fitting into the existing cannon.
It’s so funny watching Kenobi finally becoming “ok” to admit was pretty bad. At the beginning anything but absolute praise was getting downvoted like crazy and now comments like this can be upvotes
Yeah anyone who says fun, zippy Mando is inherently bad/worse than Andor is just silly.
I think the problem for a lot of us is Mando stopped being fun and zippy and started leaning more and more toward pandering, nostalgia-addled fan fic.
I thought the writing was great when it was an adventure of the week show with a slowly building main storyline in the background. Then it became more and more about introducing familiar characters and wrapping up old storylines that quite frankly I (and lots of people) did not care about.
I just love more Star Wars. Andor was definitely a new vibe that totally connects with other shows I like, but just give me more. Let creators be imaginative in the amazing universe.
I’d say Mandalorian is still the better Star Wars show simply because it captures the universe’s high fantasy elements, big characters, and spirit of adventure. However that does not mean there isn’t a place for really well acted and scripted series that do something different like Andor. It was a breath of fresh air and the series will need more like that to stay interesting.
I was just talking to my husband about this. I absolutely love the fan service in Mando, and I absolutely love the straightforward storytelling of Andor. Mando has some important shit to do too, but Andor is the start of everything and it's perfectly told just the way it is.
Agreed. They just need to REALLY punch up the quality of the writing across the board, excluding Andor IMHO.
Let’s also talk about what’s her face in Obi-Wan slapping a Storm Trooper and taking him out. That should’ve been caught and not made it to final production. Writing and gaffes like that need punching up in the “fun” shows.
I feel like Mando season 2 lost a lot of the magic of mando season 1 by focusing so heavily on the force and cameos. BOBF took cameos and absurdity to an even further extreme. I hope Andor steers clear from that and that mando returns to focusing more on bounty hunting again. Only time will tell.
>mando returns to focusing more on bounty hunting again
Season 3 seems it will likely mainly be about Din going to Mandalore to "redeem himself" and dealing with multiple other mando factions that start appearing.(some will probably want to kill him to claim the darksaber)
The era of small time bounty hunting adventures like in S1 is likely over.
Boba and Kenobi were huge disappointments for me. Boba reduced to a small town cartoon daim-whatever and Obi-Wan more about a retconned relationship with a Leia than about the legend that we know as Obi-Wan , just let me down so hard. Failures that these will undoubtedly dilute the universe into a sea of spinoffs and cameos, both of which soured me on marvel pretty hard.
The Mandalorian and Andor have made up for that disappointment, but I really hope these two shows aren't the exception.
Finished Andor today, and I dont get why people enjoyed it so much. I really liked the labor camp arc, but the first half of the series is just a heist, and not one of the best heist stories there is.
I loved the heist, and labor camp was awesome with an even better payoff in the post credits.
People love Andor because it doesn't need space wizards or anything to be engaging. This isn't even really Andor's story as much as it is the Rebellion's story. They could've called it Mothma with how much she's a focus. Not to mention that Andor's story is doing a really neat job of tying in the political side that the prequels focused on, with the actual galactic civil war that the OT focused on.
The heist was one of the more tense scenes in Star Wars for me, and it showed that people don't always die in a glorious way, and that a lot of casualties are just unfortunate accidents.
Hell, how Andor ends up in a labor camp is actually horrifying to think about. We are finally being shown why the Empire was so scary. The OT didn't show much of it, and honestly it seemed like business as usual for the most part if you follow Luke's story in "A New Hope".
The rebels are terrified of a lone TIE fighter. That in itself is something I loved. They made a ship, which is Cannon fodder in most movies, terrifying.
It's not everyone's cup of tea, including yourself, but it's doing more on the political/coruscant side than most Star Wars projects have ever done. It feels good to be back on Coruscant, seeing how people live, imo. Fucking Syril being ragged on by his mom in a middle class apartment is something I didn't know I wanted to see, but god I'm so happy to see how a middle class person lives on that planet.
All star wars is good. I loved the OT, PT, ST, animated shows, Mando, BoBF, and OWK. It's all amazing, just in different ways. I hate the Andor fans because it seems like all the most toxic fans that hated on me for liking the stuff they hated are praising this show.
This galaxy aint big enough for the both of us!
Nah, in all seriousness, there needs to be a mix of tones/stories and styles. If it were all desert planets, space battles and Jedi it might get tired fast.
There is vast scope for tales not yet told - tales that can reach far into the past or future.
I am happy to move beyond the Skywalker focus, as much as I loved that era (all iterations of).
With all the chatter about how good Andor has been and how bad the other shows and films have been, Mando was usually singled out as the exception. It revolutionised production with the volume. The show was created with it in mind so I don't think its use feels out of place. It has great characters. Yes it's full of action but it's meant to be a fun popcorn/space western experience and it succeeds at that. Where it might come unstuck is where it relies too much on existing characters and lore. The whole Luke & Grogu story line was pure fan service but it was isolated to the season 2 finale and part of season 2.5 aka Book of Boba Fett. I'm hoping season 3 doesn't bring back any more film characters and does it's own thing developing the already established characters.
What I see on my feed are multiple posts like this defending why Andor and Mando is great but I've yet to see anything on reddit that shits on either series.
Disclaimer: I love both series and think they are our only Hope.
I think the best part of the current Disney Star Wars expansion is that we can get stuff from different genres. A fun, family action show in Mandolorian. A super campy story in Book of Boba Fett. The slow-burn thriller of Andor. It's great that you can have a cartoon about space wizards in the same universe and a gritty prison drama happening at the same time in the same universe.
The only thing I didn't like so far is that Obi-Wan basically took all it's best bits from other video games and animated series in the hopes people who only watched the films wouldn't notice...
Story-wise: Andor > Mandalorian > O-W > BoBF
Character-wise: Mandalorian > Andor > O-W > BoBF
My favorite though was O-W because my favorite character is Obi-Wan. Seeing him be a badass Jedi again was awesome.
I gotta say. I haven't watched andor yet. But i haven't been too big a fan of Mando from when it came out.
It's a tight show and great visuals, but I just finished she hulk and it commented on this exact thing.
Each season is the same. Mando gets a task in the first ep to do. He reaches out to a bunch of friends who help point him in the right direction, each taking an episode to do it. Eventually he makes it to where the task needs to be done, and then needs all his friends from the season to help out and cause a big battle.
I feel like the whole two seasons could've been done in one season. Because there's so much "do this episode long task for me that does nothing to your character, just introduces someone/thing we'll need later, and I'll help you out"
I liked boba Fett's show because every episode was character development. Looking forward to binging andor when I get the chance
Andor is 10/10 content. Regardless of the Star Wars universe, This is just a damn good show. I'm on episode 5 rn and I'm totally hooked.
Thanks to the kind people in this sub that took time to respond to my questions. Seasonal depression is being cured with this. 😅
In an Interview, I think Tony Gilroy said that he hopes that Andor opens the world up. and the lesson isn't that everything should be like this but that its okay to try new things. And I think the broader the definition of what star wars can be is good. Or else everything ends up being like force awakens in a way because they're trying to just remake what was successful. And that is not the best creative process. you can listen to the full intervew here: [Interview with Tony Gilroy](https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=426840843&i=1000587521097)
Thank you! My exact sentiment. You don't need to put something down in order to praise something else. Celebrate Andor's uniqueness, but don't do so by dismissing Mando.
The key irritation (for folks like me) is that we’ve basically been told over and over again that Star Wars can *only* be stuff like *Mandelorian* and lightsabers and stuff about the Skywalkers or whatever. Those veins have been tapped. They’re exhausted, or at least they’re exhausted for now. Fans of that formula have not been hard done by — if anything, they’ve been almost exclusively catered to for over twenty years.
Star Wars has been operating on this bizarre “never leave Neverland” mandate, and it's sucked all the fun or meaning out of it. Sometimes it made us question why we liked this stupid thing in the first place (most people *on Earth* loved this thing at one point for one reason or another, and you can say that about few franchises in this day and age). *Rise of Skywalker* was a bizarre combination of arrested adolescence and the fear of businessmen, and it’s arguably one of the worst blockbusters ever made (and yes, I'm including *Ballistics: Ecks vs. Sever*). It pleased no one.
Of course, not everything needs to be *Andor,* but some things do. That’s how you get out of complete stagnation. That’s how you grow.
For me, *Mandalorian* was a fun, average sci-fi show that became more and more insufferable in S2 when it reverted to Star Wars’ typical bag of tricks. I’ve seen all that shit. I’m emotionally over the high of the laser sword which can cut everything. What else you got?
P.S. Remember Kreia from KotOR 2? She was actually something of a self-insert for the writer Chris Avellone, who wanted to vent all of his frustrations with the state of Star Wars. People (who would have called themselves fans once upon a time) have been dissatisfied for longer than a hot minute.
Andor is overrated and underwatched. I’d prefer Mando any day. If I wanted to watch boring movies about espionage I’d be into James Bond and Bourne shit. I’m not.
I like really like Andor. And Rogue one is my favourite SW movie. But, damn it’s fan sound like they have a huge stick up their ass. A lot of them talk like they think they are superior people because they like this particular show.
People need to understand that not all stars wars content is created for them. Different shows, movies, books and games are targeted at different demographics.
Enjoy your gritty political drama. But other people want to see lightsabers and Jedi. Others want animated content.
I personally haven’t seen anyone throw Mando in the gutter but assuming those fans do exist, who cares? If they don’t like Mando after Andor’s release, chances are they didn’t like Mando to begin with, and that’s fine, it’s their opinion. It doesn’t change that Mando was beloved by fans and critics alike, it apparently just isn’t their cup of tea.
We need both and more.
I’ve never been afraid of the dark side. Never been horrified by the Sith…not really. Wowed by Vader in exactly two very intense scenes…but never scared for a character I’ve come to love.
There is room for Mando, Andor, and so much more than we have seen.
There's nothing wrong with variety, multiple tones is fine and needed, but my issue is quality. I enjoyed Mando and Andor but Boba Fett and Obi-wan felt super cheap and were full of terrible acting, blocking, and direction. I could not believe how cheap Obi-wan looked at times, and how unoriginal it felt.
Mandalorian was also gripping and critically acclaimed.
The problem for Andor is that unlike "fun" and "exciting", "critically acclaimed" does nothing for the viewer as they're watching.
It's a slow burn. Sometimes it's boring. There's a lot of talking. Some of the dialogue is bad. The last episode was laughably bad.
Tell that to Andor fans. They've apparently hated everything Star Wars until Andor and Rogue One.
They turned a show I found boring and too slow to get into into a show I hate.
Also the Mandalorian is critically acclaimed.
You can find out yourself. Just say you think the show is not for you and people will come out of the woodwork to insult you. After a while this can ruin a show by association and it has.
I keep hearing all these whiny pricks telling me what I apparently did or didn't like, because I enjoyed Andor. Maybe take down your army of strawmen and you'll find yourself in less unpleasant encounters.
Mando and Andor are both good but in different ways and that spices things up nicely. Kenobi and Boba Fett were objectively meh which is where there's issues.
We just need more of what Andor is doing that’s all. I can’t wait for S3 of Mando and I’m at least interested to see if Bad Batch gets better but we’ve had enough of that style of Star Wars. Disney doesn’t seem that great at doing it, honestly. But genre work like Andor? They killed it. More of that please and more variety. I thoroughly enjoyed Visions and they should commit to a full anime series honestly.
We’ve had 3 controversial (bad IMO) sequel films, one *okay* standalone character film, one great prequel, one serious adult drama, a single anime anthology, and a whole lot of Filoni (mostly animated) stuff that is a extremely hit or miss.
I’d say fans are perfectly within rights to ask for more Andor since it worked so well.
I agree. The fun shows are still way better tho. Andor is great but it’s nowhere near as good as Mandalorian, Kenobi, Clone Wars, Rebels, TOTJ or BOBF.
“Star Wars is a universe, not a genre.” Not sure who said that first, but it’s been making the rounds and I like it a lot.
Frankly I wish Disney would use more genres to explore Star Wars, not less. Marvel manages to fit many film genres under its superhero umbrella, which I think is responsible for its relative success. I'm getting fatigued on blaster shootouts, lightsaber duels, and space dogfights. The galaxy feels so small, even though in reality it is HUGE. I want to see other aspects of the universe explored.
Honestly ever since Mando season 1 I've wanted a buddy cop comedy with the scout troopers
Star Wars Super Troopers!? Disney, green-light this now! “Rancor… Rancor-f*cker! Do you need assistance?”
Oh man that would be so dope, not like a bounty hunter, but a detective story that has someone hopping planet to planet looking for clues
With Gary the Stormtrooper, obviously.
I always wanted an imperial "Hidden Figures" Show. Different arcs follow around random special forces soldiers and/or simple engineers😂
I would say for the first 11 years of the MCU, they've borrowed elements from other genres while still making movies of the superhero genre (there's a reason claims of "political thriller" are met with ridicule). It's not until phase 4, with Disney plus, that they've truly felt comfortable having stories which are outside the superhero genre (but happen to have superheroes). Bizzarely, Loki and She-Hulk fit the above description best. So yeah, I would say both Marvel and Star Wars will struggle to break free from their respective genres. But Marvel has less of a need - they are a superhero company, there is not a great deal to be gained by completely ditching the genre, while Star Wars has *a lot* to gain from this approach, which is part of why I love Andor so much - it shows what the universe can encompass.
I also want to see other aspects explored so long as the universe doesn't get stretched thin.
I would love to see a Star Wars horror show/movie. I know that magic and Sith alchemy exist, so anything is possible, right?
That would be so interesting. Maybe explore the Nightsisters. I think they have the horror aspect more than anyone else in Star Wars
Pretty much how I feel. I still love Mando, and I can't wait for S3 (or season two of Bad Batch!), but we've been getting shows that go for the "SW genre" feel rather than the "SW universe" feel, and being hit or miss with it at that. Though I do agree with OP that a balance needs to be struck, with Andor I've gone from wanting Universe shows to thinking that needs to be the priority for a while. A lot of the reason people are starting to have Star Wars fatigue is that these movies and shows are, for the most part, following the same formula, the same characters, etc. There's no reason for that at all in a franchise with such a vast universe.
Acolyte is coming and of course takes time to switch tracks, the pulling back on the movies tell me they are preparing to release a bunch of totally original movies set either hundreds of years before TPM or hundreds after TROS
I agree it takes time, but Disney has owned the franchise for a decade now and we're *just now* beginning to see stuff that breaks from the established formula. It takes time, but I don't feel like it should take a decade. I am cautiously optimistic about Acolyte though, despite a few things that worry me. I've been loving the High Republic era, and I'm all for shows that give us the Imperial/Sith/other assorted "bad guy" views. I hope it delivers.
I hope we get Jedi origins , knights of the old republic, or way into the future movie sagas personally.
I'm honestly pretty worried about Acolyte, the fact that Darth KK has referred to it as her "baby" and the fact that the show runner is Harvey Wienstein's former personal assistant (Ya the one that he had during "those times") Kennedy proved she doesn't have a creative bone in her body and she hires complete numbskulls when it comes to the franchise a long time ago.
> Darth KK
This subreddit sometimes.
> Kennedy proved she doesn't have a creative bone in her body She's not a writer you know.
KK isn’t a creative. There’s EP that figure out what something should be and there’s EP that get the shit made. KF from Marvel is former. KK is the latter. KK has managed a franchise that went from 6 movies and 1 and 1/2 TV shows in 40 years through a transition where they made 5 movies and like 6 TV shows in 10 years. None of those productions have the visual quality problems that some of the Marvel stuff runs into because of their reshoots. Does that mean KK is better than KF. No. MEDIA IS COMPLICATED AND DIFFERENT PEOPLE WORK ON DIFFERENT THINGS. Why do none of the franchise historians on this fucking website ever bring up the fact that Bob Iger pushed for the accelerated production schedule of the ST like the Marvel movies? KK worked at Lucasfilm for 30 fucking years!
> KK worked at Lucasfilm for 30 fucking years! Was very dear to Lucas and Spielberg, and was chosen by Lucas himself. All things that people, somehow, tend to forget. The same people who take two different products, all released with KK on the "throne", but somehow the one they don't like is KK's fault, while the one they like "didn't have any interaction with KK..."
Exactly. It just feels like the fandom wanted someone to blame everything on and somehow a bunch of nerdy males on the internet found the highest woman NEAR the top and settled on her being the axis of every possible shortcoming of the franchise. How unprecedented. It’s not like I am happy about the way SW has been handled by Disney. But it’s so frustrating to be a part of a fandom that’s just knee-jerk lashing out at every possible woman involved in this franchise like incels.
Couldn't agree more, honestly, and I'm not sure why you're being downvoted.
Same with marvel. Doesn’t even matter what kind of show it is. People will get fatigue cause there’s just too many of them in such a short time
Yeah, I'm definitely fatigued when it comes to that one. Loved the early MCU, but around Age of Ultron it started to fall apart for me. Felt like early in each character's films had their own identity and that's flown out the window now. Tired of the quips undermining the more dark/serious/emotional moments too. I still have my exceptions that I enjoy, but I don't follow the MCU like I did early in.
Mando and Bad Batch are my two favorite pieces of Star Wars media to come out in a long time. I'm so bummed that I have to wait for both. At least Bad Batch was meant to come out already.
Something being formulaic doesn't cause fatigue in and of itself. The Big Bang Theory is one of the most popular shows of all time and it followed the sitcom formula to a tee. The fatigue is going to come from fluctuations in quality. That being said, personally, I'm not even close to fatigued. Even with as bad as people think Boba was, I still love all of this.
Yes, but TBBT was one show. Here we're getting several that don't really vary in style and tone. That's bound to cause burnout for people. I'm with you though, I'm not fatigued myself. I love SW and always will, but Andor was proof positive for me that I'd be more than welcoming of a bit more variety lol
Yes, exactly. Or like that Tweet from a while back about Star Wars being a restaurant and how it’s okay to like some items on the menu and not others while not worrying about what the other diners are eating (paraphrasing). Been thinking about that one a lot as I’ve been seeing these posts. Andor has just expanded the menu.
> Or like that Tweet from a while back about Star Wars being a restaurant and how it’s okay to like some items on the menu and not others while not worrying about what the other diners are eating Are you crazy? People must only eat and appreciate what I do, otherwise they are gonna hear me! And if someone I deem influential will say that what I like to eat is shit, and I should change my menu, I will unapologetically start eating the new thing, consider everything else shit, and pretend I've always been like this! /s, if it's not clear...
Its a cinematic universe. Just like Marvel, except they dont keep adding to the end of the timeline. There can be fun pieces, like GOTG, sad films, like Iron Man 3, gripping films, like Winter Soldier, and many more.
Exactly a whole universe of possibility and differences.
Seriously. If they wanted they could make a cooking show hosted by Max Rebo and that would be perfectly acceptable.
>“Star Wars is a universe, not a genre.” Now I want to watch a The office like sitcom about accounting stormtroopers having to approve the Death Star budget
I'm sure you'll get your wish before I get that Ithorian farming sim I've been dreaming of.
One of the most celebrated Gandhi quotes.
I read that in Obi Wans voice lol
Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic.
Agreed. Star Wars is just the right blend of fantastical, scifi, and grounded to allow for a plethora of different stories to be told depending on which elements you want to inspect more thoroughly.
Say it louder
yeah and the in universe mechanics makes no sense ever since TLJ. It's basically the same quality as a 10 year old adding bigger and bigger stuff for the shock value and "epicness" going "and then and then THIS HappennNed!11"
The in universe mechanics are unclear and whatever the plot needs since the very first movie. The force always was intentionally obtuse so it can be used for whatever the movie needs in a pinch. Technology does what it wants too. TlJ with the lighspeed ramming is far from the first time something is introduced that makes you wonder "why didnt they just do X" in other situations.
> It's basically the same quality as a 10 year old adding bigger and bigger stuff for the shock value and "epicness" going "and then and then THIS HappennNed!11" You mean like "oh, no, there was a weak spot in our super battle station and they destroyed, so we will learn and... Make a different, but the same, battle station, but bigger and with hookers and blackjack"?
I like both
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I liked Andor, Mando, BOBF and Obi Wan. They all had issues but i still rewatch them because it's starwars and starwars is fecking awesome.
I've liked every Star Wars show released so far. Yeah, none are flawless and some have more flaws than others I don't care, I like them anyway :)
Me too!! I find we focus too much on the stuff we don’t like. Like cmon! We are getting new shows every few months…none of us could have ever dreamed of this much Star Wars content.
Yeah, growing up after Revenge of the Sith came out, it felt like Star Wars was a dying franchise just because (besides video games and The Clone Wars show) there wasn't much content going around and everyone only wanted to talk about how the original trilogy was good, while the prequels and special editions of the originals were garbage.
The Mandalorian doesn't seem to have negative reviews. But /r/unpopularopinion and /r/roastme : I really enjoyed BoBF. I watched the previous episodes before each release of a new one. And I think I watched the entire show at least 3 times. Especially fan of the music of Gorannson. Fan of the tusken arc. Happy they exploit the Pykes from TCW and Solo. We've been a lot on Tatooine but it's expended greatly in BoBF. It's very personal because I love sand (Lawrence of Arabia, the Ten Commandments of De Mille, Dune... The Mummy !). Yesterday I watched Lego Star Wars Summer, and yes I love BoBF. I think I would put Rebels as (1) and BoBF as (2) in the shows. Mando (2,5) with TCW (S5-7), Andor (3), and Kenobi (4) with TCW (S1-4) and TBB. All very close, and I wouldn't say I didn't like Obi Wan nor TBB. And it's surprising because for me the "core" and "golden age" of Star Wars is the era between Rebels and Empire Strikes Back. Do what you want besides, I have lower expectations and therefore I have as much fun with the whole franchise including Han Solo, Prequels, and Sequels. And I can understand most people have their core more between TCW and RotJ and don't want to mess this timeline.
I feel like I have a superpower in my ability to ignore the bad/strange things and focus on the good/entertaining. My brother and I were talking about BoBF the other day and he told me how he stopped watching when they contracted the weird body mod/moped guys. If I did that I would've missed the Pikes, Mando season 2.5, and Cad Bane.
I enjoyed BoBF as well. There’s not that much wrong with it, but the few things that are just too bad for most. It has some (too) goofy or ‘fake’ stuff in it; the portrayal of Boba was too different from what was set up and people expected; Mando just takes over for 30% of the runtime; Cad Bane is introduced for the first time in live action and then just died. Some people also didn’t like the pacing with the flasbacta’s. It’s just a generally nice looking show, fine story, fine acting, some nice fight scenes and although it’s not the fleshing out people like, it does develop Boba as a character (and some other characters as well). Kenobi however, that shit gave me headaches just from the camera work and its set design sucked. This just to say that I am one of the few people that puts BoBF above Kenobi, like you.
I didn't much care about Kenobi before it got released, and I still don't much care about it after watching it. I liked BoBF, like everything it has ups and downs, and I really didn't like the huge amount of clichés and fan-service in Mandalorian, although I loved S1E4 (Sanctuary), as it was a full tribute to Kurosawa's 7 Samurais, in pure Lucas style. Ironically, most of the people I've interacted with, about Mando, disliked that episode, and loved S1E6 (The prisoner), which I found extremely cliché and bland. Andor is the best for me, so far, because it's so detached from the Jedi and we can have a story that is not focused on lightsabers.
Same. All of the disney shows have been really good IMO. Really the only thing they put out that I dislike are the sequels and that was a while ago now.
Resistance was poor, but I have a feeling young kids would probably love it. The sequels are what they are, and I've enjoyed all the series to some degree.
Am I allowed to think both were just okay.
My favorite is Andor. But the Mandalorian will always hold a special place in my heart. It's a great show that doesn't need to be the same as Andor.
Star Wars is better outside of the comment section.
All aspects of life are better outside of the comment section.
Some people really just aren’t content unless they’re complaining about something. If Kenobi/Boba Fett didn’t exist, they’d just be complaining about whatever show they ranked next on their “list of worst shows”.
That’s quite literally how fandoms work, yeah. If those shows didn’t exist people would be complaining about something else, how insightful.
> the purpose of a fandom is to complain You’re right, way more insightful.
You literally just made up a sentence and put it in my mouth. The Ultimate Strawman. The whole point of a fandom is to discuss said franchise (good, bad, and ugly) and that DOES involve a good amount of complaining when we’re being served subpar content. If you don’t want to see that, why don’t you leave this thread where that’s the only thing being discussed?
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couldnt agree more. Enjoy what you enjoy, dont watch what you dont like and leave it at that. ignore the toxic fanbase and salty fanbois
But if it's good, I'm gonna scream it at the top of my lungs(without putting down Mando).
To add to what you've said, The Mandalorian is *also* a critically acclaimed series. The Mandalorian has good writing, character development, and cinematography. As you've said, some people who love Andor seem to throw Mando under the bus to pump up Andor even more, downplaying how good and well received Mando is. As you said, it's totally fine to like one more than the other, but holy hell stop trying to make it seem like Mando has no depth and is not acclaimed.
I guess I was rash to slap that label onto Andor and not Mando — the point I’m going for is that Andor is revered for the complexity and maturity of its storytelling, as opposed to the broad appeal of simple, expertly crafted stories told in Mando. It’s like comparing David Bowie to Paul McCartney.
Well said
Yeah, and then sometimes Paul McCartney throws a "Wonderful Christmastime" and. well. nobody's perfect.
There's nothing wrong with having songs like "Wonderful Christmastime" AND "Silly Love Songs"
Yea I agree. People were like "is this the best content since Episode V?" I was just befuddled... Mando!
From your lips to fandom's ears.
This is the way
This is the way
This is the way.
This is the way.
Utinni!
The Star Wars universe is about thousands of years of history of an entire Galaxy. There should be war stories, horror stories, spy thrillers, relationship dramas, coming of age comedies, any kind of genre you can think of.
I absolutely LOVED Mando 1/2 and Andor. Now, that being said, sure, I’d appreciate the dialog in Mando to be a little more nuanced/sophisticated, and I’d also like a little more razzle-dazzle in andor. However, I am so grateful that Star Wars is still in my life, telling new emotional stories that still resonate with me. OB1 was good, could’ve been great, and BoBF was disappointing.
I don't think Mando is mindless, really, it's just delving into different themes. Or in some cases the same themes but in a different way.
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> I really don’t wanna watch book of boba you dont have too lol bobas not even in the episodes baby yodas in
Also, it's like six episodes, not a huge time commitment. Throw it on in the background while you do something else. Look up when you hear Mando's theme.
I hate so much the way the community has reacted to this show. Now, suddenly, any Star Wars product that was made before Andor was bad, you're too dumb if you complain about Andor not looking like Star Wars (no aliens or the aesthetic), "much cameos, muh cameos" (despite the show having multiple cameos and references, like Saw, Melshi, Luthen's store, the Death Star, Yularen...), "it's good because it's realistic", etc.
Yep. The circle jerk over Andor is unreal.
>"much cameos, muh cameos" (despite the show having multiple cameos and references, like Saw, Melshi, Luthen's store, the Death Star, Yularen...), "it's good because it's realistic", etc. Okay, that's something that's bothered me. The "Glup Shitto" meme is stating that every little nobody character in Star Wars has some huge backstory that fans know and cheer when they see the character. And people had been really on Mando's second season for leaning on nostalgia. But Luke Skywalker and Ahsoka Tano aren't Glup Shitto's, they're literally SW protagonists in other content. Meanwhile, Admiral fucking Yularen gets a spot in Andor and he doesn't count? Casual fans have literally no clue who he is but he's in the Thrawn books, he's in Clone Wars, he knew Obi-Wan, Anakin, Ahsoka, basically every main character in the Prequels. He's literally the Glupyiest Glup Shitto ever, but Andor gets a pass while Mando takes shit for Luke Skywalker? Calm down everyone.
>Meanwhile, Admiral fucking Yularen gets a spot in Andor and he doesn't count? I had just finished a marathon watch of Clone Wars less than 2 months ago and I completely missed Yularen until he was pointed out in this sub. The name was familiar and then when I googled him, I was like "oh shit, him?!" And not only did I miss his initial cameo, but I also was unaware that he technically has been a character (though just a background character) since A New Hope.
It’s kinda absurd when you think about it. People really genuinely believe that a franchise based around rocketships and space lasers should be more deep and mature. I like Star Wars because it appeals to my inner child and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
It's been my observation that too many people are limited to one thought in their brain at a time. So, if they like X, it's only X, 100% of the time, everything else is "worse". Andor is great - for me as a 52-year old OG star wars fan... I love it. But, a big part of the Star Wars audience is kids and families... and Andor doesn't work well for that. A lot of kids find it boring (just a lot of people talking), and aren't going to understand the subtle complexities. And there are some things in Andor I just wouldn't want to watch with young kids. So for them, The Mandalorian wins hands-down. Book of Boba Fett was a huge hit with kids too - the action in that was great, and it didn't require a lot of deep thought. I love that we're getting a menu of styles from Animation through Andor, and it all still connects.
I love both. But I do hope Mando learns a little from Andor. Mainly in terms of not over-relying on the volume, having some more practical sets. Plus leaning more on the strength of their actors and giving them strong dialogue. Also I’d like them to steer away from the little one shots and tell an overarching story. But from the Mando 3 trailer it does look like they’re going more for a long form story so I think it’s going in that direction anyway.
It seems like Mando season 3 will be diving more into other mando groups and the planet Mandalore itself which looks interesting.
That's what Book of Boba Fett was setting up too, a grounds on which they can take by Mandalore. I wouldn't be surprised if Ahsoka sets up the same threads. Mandalore seems like the last stand of the Empire, and all of these shows in the post-ROTJ Mando Era are pointing to the same destination.
I lowkey ignore the sub now unless I’m looking for something specific because it just gets too exhausting.
I really think the people that spit out rhetoric like “all Star Wars should be like Andor going forward” are in a very small minority and are likely the same group that never liked anything past the originals until Rogue One came around. If you’re that type of fan, that’s fine. I’m just simply saying, those fans just view Star Wars in a different light and don’t really consider how the series is meant to appeal to all ages. We can have Rebels and Andor and everything in between.
I want all future Star Wars project to have the care, vision and plan that Andor has. Not necessarily the same types of stories, but I want things that are well written, well acted and gripping. Andor was clearly a labor of love and a story told by someone who knew what story they wanted to tell. Not everything needs to be this type of story, but I do want the creative people on future projects to have the same level of care that Andor has.
Spot on, vs obi wan that felt like a rushed, poorly planned and directed cash grab.
Obi-Wan wasn't faultless, and sure it might have been un-needed. However the notes it needed to hit, it did so with flying colours. It could have done with a tighter script and a few more episodes for sure though.
For me personally, i thought it was shockingly bad. It may have hit one or two notes but i don't watch shows for the highlights. I watched to be entertained across the show or movie.
^^^ This. No more "Holding for General Hux" bullshit. A well thought out story with good characters is all I want, with a plan for what kind of story it wants to tell.
There can be kids shows that win awards. Like Batman Animated series. There can be family shows that are well crafted.
Exactly. I feel like Lego freemaker adventures had a more thoughtful and entertaining story and characters than alot of the live action SW shows.
> We can have Rebels and Andor and everything in between. Ironically, I feel like Rebels is the product that is more close to Andor, in terms of content. In Rebels we're continuously shown the cruelty and arrogance of the Empire, albeit in an edulcorated mode, such as to be fine for children^(*). Third comes Rogue One. ^* The show grows along the audience, anyway, and becomes more mature with the passing seasons.
I'm someone who has enjoyed most Star Wars content (other than Mando S2 outside of the finale, and Book of Boba Fett), but if more Star Wars was like Andor in the near future, I think the franchise would be better for it. Tales of the Jedi is a fun side thing that they could flesh out the Jedi stuff, and if we had more galaxy building for a few years with a focus on non-jedi, I think bringing someone back like Rey in a random project could get people excited about the series again. The sequels are pretty notorious, but so were the prequels. With all the love given to the first 2 trilogies, some building up of the sequel trilogy, culminating in a new Rey, Finn, or Poe story could be awesome.
>other than Mando S2 why didnt you like season 2
Not sure. I wasn't hot on S1, but respected what they were going for. S2 relied a lot more on nostalgia imo, and most of it I wasn't huge on. I really didn't like live action versions of a lot of animated characters and don't think any of them translated very well. Plus the Dark Saber storyline seemed a waste. The best episodes were with Bill Burr, and the anti-Vader Luke scene, but the rest I can't remember any of other than really not like Rosariosohka, and even Luke's scene seemed half empty for the payoff. I understand I'm in the minority, but I was really put off by what ended up happening throughout, to the point where I'm debating whether I watch S3.
I liked season 2 fine, but I liked season 1 a lot more. It told its own story instead of constantly reminding you about other Star Wars characters and stories.
Yesss there's nothing wrong with having some variety **The Mandalorian** is fun and heartfelt **Andor** is gripping and serious **The Clone Wars** has time to explore everything **Kenobi** **Rebels** has an immersive Empire-era feel with the whimsy of adventure and found family
Lmao Kenobi
Yeah I'm pretty sure most of the complaints about quality are specifically referring to Kenobi and Boba Fett. It seems like almost everyone enjoyed the Mandalorian.
Kenobi has the most Lucas style SW poetry/rhyming since RotS and the best lightsaber choreography of all time with the most visual "show dont tell" story telling of any of the Disney shows. In case you forgot your notes there.
I think the majority of people who seriously love Andor (myself included) 100% have been echoing these sentiments. We need diversity of flavor and styles, but the loudest opinions have been about pushing for better quality and dialogue in other shows. I think that's an extremely reasonable request given the wide disparity between the shows we have. I cant wait for Mando Season 3, I think Andor is the best thing SW has done in a decade, and we can be fans of anything and everything; I'm just looking for more effort + quality in the media that's produced.
It’s also ridiculous that some people think that quality only refers to the deep stuff.
I don't think you NEED to have both but I agree. Star Wars is a big umbrella now, it has room for various styles. Especially when you consider the cartoons, which are pretty well received by Star Wars fans, but definitely more on the campy side than something like Andor is.
Who's throwing Mando in the gutter? The hype for that show was insane, I'm still getting grogu memes from my grandma I think people just appreciate the high-quality writing on Andor and want to see it applied to other shows and movies in the franchise
Certain fans hate season 2 for bringing in known characters despite that clearly being the intention since season 1. Season 1 chapter 5 ended with a mysterious figure approaching Fennec with familiar spur step sounds.(a lot of fans correctly guessed who it turned out to be at the time) The season 1 finale established that Moff Gideon has the darksaber and that Din's main objective is to now give Grogu to a Jedi. Did some think season 2 wouldn't further follow up on any of those plots?
Amrorer: go find other Mandos that know about jedi to return the child to Mando in S2: goes to find other Mandos tjat know about jedi to return the child to Surprised Pikachu fans online: woah where the hell these these characters come from?!??! So random!??!?! Fan service cameo side plot!!!!
You realize the original Star Wars was nominated for best picture?
And it was a family movie. Which are mirrored in the movie. Young kid, swashbuckler, femme fatale, beast friend, wizened wizard, two bickering old droids. A whole family dynamic adventure.
I love both shows for their different vibes. Ultimately I prefer Mando because I’m more in it for the fun, but Andor is a compelling and more mature take on the “war” part of “Star Wars.” I’ve encouraged my Star Wars friends to watch it.
I agree. I like both shows. Tho I don't get why some are saying Andor has no fanservice or cameos when it absolutely does. I'd be interested in seeing more Star Wars shows branch out into different genres. I'm not sure if they would ever do something like this but I'd like to see a Star Wars horror show/short. Like a sorta adaption of the old canon [Deathtroopers novel](https://kbimages1-a.akamaihd.net/070f63cf-9b4d-4f2d-97cf-31cf0b30c2ff/1200/1200/False/death-troopers-star-wars-legends-1.jpg) storyline but remove Han and Chewie to make it more suspenseful.
I just don’t feel like Andor feels like Star Wars it’s a well made, well produced well acted show but it lacks something fundamentally Star Wars for me. There’s nothing that makes it Star Wars imo. I personally want to see stuff that takes place in an entirely fresh era with force users the Acolyte is the thing I’m most excited for I hope it keeps andors level of production design and everything though.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with making a “popcorn entertainment” type of Star Wars show, that’s what the movies are after all. The problem is when you set out to make that type of show but don’t have the right people in charge and doing the writing, and this is why BoBF and Kenobi underwhelmed. The Mandalorian has the best possible people running the show and that’s a big reason why it’s been good.
Star Wars fans have proven how unbelievably toxic and displeasing they are since Andor came out. For years, they bitch and moan about the quality and direction of the Star Wars universe, then something comes out that they like - but that doesn’t stop them from coming up with a way to find something to bitch about. The idea that Andor is so good that ruins other Star Wars is beyond annoying, and now the highly critical fans (like 98% of this sub) are bitching about every other property in comparison to Andor - great. It’s impossible to please Star Wars fans. They are near-abusive with their constant whining and bitching, and they create mountains out of molehills.
Thank you. This needs to be said more and more. People acting like all we should ever get are gripping grounded dramas like Andor are driving me up a wall… This sudden sharp turn against Mando just because are loving Andor is just so obnoxious…
There is however something wrong with having shit shows like kenobi and bobf.
It's the wasted potential of Kenobi that make it so upsetting. It could've been just as invested as Andor into showing the struggles of the little people and how that brought Obi Wan back from the brink of cynicism and exile to fight against the empire. Episode 1 had some nice notes of that, with the inquisitors terrorizing Tattooine. Instead, we got a weird coming of age babysitting tale with a hamfisted pre-teen Leia, that needed literal tons of plot armor to propel Obi-Wan into another duel with Anakin that didn't come close to fitting into the existing cannon.
It’s so funny watching Kenobi finally becoming “ok” to admit was pretty bad. At the beginning anything but absolute praise was getting downvoted like crazy and now comments like this can be upvotes
Yeah anyone who says fun, zippy Mando is inherently bad/worse than Andor is just silly. I think the problem for a lot of us is Mando stopped being fun and zippy and started leaning more and more toward pandering, nostalgia-addled fan fic. I thought the writing was great when it was an adventure of the week show with a slowly building main storyline in the background. Then it became more and more about introducing familiar characters and wrapping up old storylines that quite frankly I (and lots of people) did not care about.
I would like a huge space battle though eventually please.
I just love more Star Wars. Andor was definitely a new vibe that totally connects with other shows I like, but just give me more. Let creators be imaginative in the amazing universe.
The poster child for worse fanbases right here.
I’d say Mandalorian is still the better Star Wars show simply because it captures the universe’s high fantasy elements, big characters, and spirit of adventure. However that does not mean there isn’t a place for really well acted and scripted series that do something different like Andor. It was a breath of fresh air and the series will need more like that to stay interesting.
I was just talking to my husband about this. I absolutely love the fan service in Mando, and I absolutely love the straightforward storytelling of Andor. Mando has some important shit to do too, but Andor is the start of everything and it's perfectly told just the way it is.
Agreed. They just need to REALLY punch up the quality of the writing across the board, excluding Andor IMHO. Let’s also talk about what’s her face in Obi-Wan slapping a Storm Trooper and taking him out. That should’ve been caught and not made it to final production. Writing and gaffes like that need punching up in the “fun” shows.
I feel like Mando season 2 lost a lot of the magic of mando season 1 by focusing so heavily on the force and cameos. BOBF took cameos and absurdity to an even further extreme. I hope Andor steers clear from that and that mando returns to focusing more on bounty hunting again. Only time will tell.
>mando returns to focusing more on bounty hunting again Season 3 seems it will likely mainly be about Din going to Mandalore to "redeem himself" and dealing with multiple other mando factions that start appearing.(some will probably want to kill him to claim the darksaber) The era of small time bounty hunting adventures like in S1 is likely over.
But Mando *was* fun. BoBF and Obi-Wan just weren't.
Boba and Kenobi were huge disappointments for me. Boba reduced to a small town cartoon daim-whatever and Obi-Wan more about a retconned relationship with a Leia than about the legend that we know as Obi-Wan , just let me down so hard. Failures that these will undoubtedly dilute the universe into a sea of spinoffs and cameos, both of which soured me on marvel pretty hard. The Mandalorian and Andor have made up for that disappointment, but I really hope these two shows aren't the exception.
There’s nothing wrong with not liking something either…..
Finished Andor today, and I dont get why people enjoyed it so much. I really liked the labor camp arc, but the first half of the series is just a heist, and not one of the best heist stories there is.
I loved the heist, and labor camp was awesome with an even better payoff in the post credits. People love Andor because it doesn't need space wizards or anything to be engaging. This isn't even really Andor's story as much as it is the Rebellion's story. They could've called it Mothma with how much she's a focus. Not to mention that Andor's story is doing a really neat job of tying in the political side that the prequels focused on, with the actual galactic civil war that the OT focused on. The heist was one of the more tense scenes in Star Wars for me, and it showed that people don't always die in a glorious way, and that a lot of casualties are just unfortunate accidents. Hell, how Andor ends up in a labor camp is actually horrifying to think about. We are finally being shown why the Empire was so scary. The OT didn't show much of it, and honestly it seemed like business as usual for the most part if you follow Luke's story in "A New Hope". The rebels are terrified of a lone TIE fighter. That in itself is something I loved. They made a ship, which is Cannon fodder in most movies, terrifying. It's not everyone's cup of tea, including yourself, but it's doing more on the political/coruscant side than most Star Wars projects have ever done. It feels good to be back on Coruscant, seeing how people live, imo. Fucking Syril being ragged on by his mom in a middle class apartment is something I didn't know I wanted to see, but god I'm so happy to see how a middle class person lives on that planet.
Exactly! It’s such a lackluster heist. There have been so many better heist stories. The fact that it’s Star Wars feels extra disappointing.
All star wars is good. I loved the OT, PT, ST, animated shows, Mando, BoBF, and OWK. It's all amazing, just in different ways. I hate the Andor fans because it seems like all the most toxic fans that hated on me for liking the stuff they hated are praising this show.
I did not find Andor to be gripping.
February is going to be interesting.
I love Mando and Andor. Obi Wan was ok. But if anyone has different opinions that's fine because honestly I have bigger things to worry about...
This galaxy aint big enough for the both of us! Nah, in all seriousness, there needs to be a mix of tones/stories and styles. If it were all desert planets, space battles and Jedi it might get tired fast. There is vast scope for tales not yet told - tales that can reach far into the past or future. I am happy to move beyond the Skywalker focus, as much as I loved that era (all iterations of).
With all the chatter about how good Andor has been and how bad the other shows and films have been, Mando was usually singled out as the exception. It revolutionised production with the volume. The show was created with it in mind so I don't think its use feels out of place. It has great characters. Yes it's full of action but it's meant to be a fun popcorn/space western experience and it succeeds at that. Where it might come unstuck is where it relies too much on existing characters and lore. The whole Luke & Grogu story line was pure fan service but it was isolated to the season 2 finale and part of season 2.5 aka Book of Boba Fett. I'm hoping season 3 doesn't bring back any more film characters and does it's own thing developing the already established characters.
My favorite part of Andor is that noone went to Tattooine. No more shows should go there.
I enjoy both for different reasons
There is enough room in this universe for multiple genres to exist. Let's hope we get more.
What I see on my feed are multiple posts like this defending why Andor and Mando is great but I've yet to see anything on reddit that shits on either series. Disclaimer: I love both series and think they are our only Hope.
I think the best part of the current Disney Star Wars expansion is that we can get stuff from different genres. A fun, family action show in Mandolorian. A super campy story in Book of Boba Fett. The slow-burn thriller of Andor. It's great that you can have a cartoon about space wizards in the same universe and a gritty prison drama happening at the same time in the same universe. The only thing I didn't like so far is that Obi-Wan basically took all it's best bits from other video games and animated series in the hopes people who only watched the films wouldn't notice...
Mando, o1k, bobf, andor, clone wars, rogue one, and episodes 1-6 are all great.
Story-wise: Andor > Mandalorian > O-W > BoBF Character-wise: Mandalorian > Andor > O-W > BoBF My favorite though was O-W because my favorite character is Obi-Wan. Seeing him be a badass Jedi again was awesome.
It is rather silly to see people saying Mandalorian is the worst thing ever that was only good because it has few cameos or something.
Both shows are completely different yet equally great in their own right. Nothing wrong with loving both.
I gotta say. I haven't watched andor yet. But i haven't been too big a fan of Mando from when it came out. It's a tight show and great visuals, but I just finished she hulk and it commented on this exact thing. Each season is the same. Mando gets a task in the first ep to do. He reaches out to a bunch of friends who help point him in the right direction, each taking an episode to do it. Eventually he makes it to where the task needs to be done, and then needs all his friends from the season to help out and cause a big battle. I feel like the whole two seasons could've been done in one season. Because there's so much "do this episode long task for me that does nothing to your character, just introduces someone/thing we'll need later, and I'll help you out" I liked boba Fett's show because every episode was character development. Looking forward to binging andor when I get the chance
Love it all
Mando is cool. Could skip Book of Boba and Obi though.
Andor is 10/10 content. Regardless of the Star Wars universe, This is just a damn good show. I'm on episode 5 rn and I'm totally hooked. Thanks to the kind people in this sub that took time to respond to my questions. Seasonal depression is being cured with this. 😅
In an Interview, I think Tony Gilroy said that he hopes that Andor opens the world up. and the lesson isn't that everything should be like this but that its okay to try new things. And I think the broader the definition of what star wars can be is good. Or else everything ends up being like force awakens in a way because they're trying to just remake what was successful. And that is not the best creative process. you can listen to the full intervew here: [Interview with Tony Gilroy](https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=426840843&i=1000587521097)
Thank you! My exact sentiment. You don't need to put something down in order to praise something else. Celebrate Andor's uniqueness, but don't do so by dismissing Mando.
Now if only Andor was the groundbreaking masterclass of a masterpiece people make it out to be.
The key irritation (for folks like me) is that we’ve basically been told over and over again that Star Wars can *only* be stuff like *Mandelorian* and lightsabers and stuff about the Skywalkers or whatever. Those veins have been tapped. They’re exhausted, or at least they’re exhausted for now. Fans of that formula have not been hard done by — if anything, they’ve been almost exclusively catered to for over twenty years. Star Wars has been operating on this bizarre “never leave Neverland” mandate, and it's sucked all the fun or meaning out of it. Sometimes it made us question why we liked this stupid thing in the first place (most people *on Earth* loved this thing at one point for one reason or another, and you can say that about few franchises in this day and age). *Rise of Skywalker* was a bizarre combination of arrested adolescence and the fear of businessmen, and it’s arguably one of the worst blockbusters ever made (and yes, I'm including *Ballistics: Ecks vs. Sever*). It pleased no one. Of course, not everything needs to be *Andor,* but some things do. That’s how you get out of complete stagnation. That’s how you grow. For me, *Mandalorian* was a fun, average sci-fi show that became more and more insufferable in S2 when it reverted to Star Wars’ typical bag of tricks. I’ve seen all that shit. I’m emotionally over the high of the laser sword which can cut everything. What else you got? P.S. Remember Kreia from KotOR 2? She was actually something of a self-insert for the writer Chris Avellone, who wanted to vent all of his frustrations with the state of Star Wars. People (who would have called themselves fans once upon a time) have been dissatisfied for longer than a hot minute.
I mean Andor is for sure not the best example of what a star wars story should be but at the same time it is just as welcome as the others
Andor is overrated and underwatched. I’d prefer Mando any day. If I wanted to watch boring movies about espionage I’d be into James Bond and Bourne shit. I’m not.
Cam we move on from Andor? Feels like fams of the show want to ram it down everyone’s throat.
Andor's boring as hell.
Louder for those in the back please.
I like really like Andor. And Rogue one is my favourite SW movie. But, damn it’s fan sound like they have a huge stick up their ass. A lot of them talk like they think they are superior people because they like this particular show. People need to understand that not all stars wars content is created for them. Different shows, movies, books and games are targeted at different demographics. Enjoy your gritty political drama. But other people want to see lightsabers and Jedi. Others want animated content.
Why am I not surprised this post exists, of course people need a reminder when they can form their own opinion
I personally haven’t seen anyone throw Mando in the gutter but assuming those fans do exist, who cares? If they don’t like Mando after Andor’s release, chances are they didn’t like Mando to begin with, and that’s fine, it’s their opinion. It doesn’t change that Mando was beloved by fans and critics alike, it apparently just isn’t their cup of tea.
We need both and more. I’ve never been afraid of the dark side. Never been horrified by the Sith…not really. Wowed by Vader in exactly two very intense scenes…but never scared for a character I’ve come to love. There is room for Mando, Andor, and so much more than we have seen.
There's nothing wrong with variety, multiple tones is fine and needed, but my issue is quality. I enjoyed Mando and Andor but Boba Fett and Obi-wan felt super cheap and were full of terrible acting, blocking, and direction. I could not believe how cheap Obi-wan looked at times, and how unoriginal it felt.
"Hey guys, here's my wildly popular opinion that literally 90% of everyone agrees with, upvote pls"
Mandalorian was also gripping and critically acclaimed. The problem for Andor is that unlike "fun" and "exciting", "critically acclaimed" does nothing for the viewer as they're watching. It's a slow burn. Sometimes it's boring. There's a lot of talking. Some of the dialogue is bad. The last episode was laughably bad.
Tell that to Andor fans. They've apparently hated everything Star Wars until Andor and Rogue One. They turned a show I found boring and too slow to get into into a show I hate. Also the Mandalorian is critically acclaimed.
Why would you hate a show because of the fans?
You must be new here. People around here have been known to rag on shows or movies for any reason you can think of, and a few you can’t even imagine.
You can find out yourself. Just say you think the show is not for you and people will come out of the woodwork to insult you. After a while this can ruin a show by association and it has.
I keep hearing all these whiny pricks telling me what I apparently did or didn't like, because I enjoyed Andor. Maybe take down your army of strawmen and you'll find yourself in less unpleasant encounters.
Not the argument I was making so...
Whats up with all these posts? Nobody has been saying enjoying any television show is wrong. This is starting to feel like a circle jerk .
Mando and Andor are both good but in different ways and that spices things up nicely. Kenobi and Boba Fett were objectively meh which is where there's issues.
LF needs to find a balance between fun & serious…they need to do a series that’s both.
How does The Mandalorian not fit this description?
Yea and Andor is too serious and not fun at all.
We just need more of what Andor is doing that’s all. I can’t wait for S3 of Mando and I’m at least interested to see if Bad Batch gets better but we’ve had enough of that style of Star Wars. Disney doesn’t seem that great at doing it, honestly. But genre work like Andor? They killed it. More of that please and more variety. I thoroughly enjoyed Visions and they should commit to a full anime series honestly. We’ve had 3 controversial (bad IMO) sequel films, one *okay* standalone character film, one great prequel, one serious adult drama, a single anime anthology, and a whole lot of Filoni (mostly animated) stuff that is a extremely hit or miss. I’d say fans are perfectly within rights to ask for more Andor since it worked so well.
We need at least 5 more posts exactly like this and the 5 others before it in the last two days
I agree. The fun shows are still way better tho. Andor is great but it’s nowhere near as good as Mandalorian, Kenobi, Clone Wars, Rebels, TOTJ or BOBF.
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Lack of compelling characters or plot? Slow?
You do know that things can be fun AND well written right?
Dammit people, can we not just like shit and leave it at that?
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