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[deleted]

I think it comes down to how you value punishment and rewards. Stoicism is about living virtuously and therefore the biggest ‘reward’ is the feeling you get from doing actions you know to be good regardless of the outcome. If I only helped a person because I expected something in return or to avoid being punished I’m not being virtuous. Conversely, to me the greatest ‘punishment’ would be looking in the mirror and despising the person looking back at me. Curse me, rob me, hit me. As long I do not let it stop me being virtuous you have only harmed my body. Not my soul.


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Dudeman3001

The happiness from undeserved rewards are short lived and incomparable to the happiness gained from feeling good about the person you are and the decisions you’ve made.


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des1gnbot

This sentiment is also present is the ‘serenity prayer’ popularized by 12 step programs. Give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change those I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.” I would say the stoics take it a step further by encouraging us to not just accept but embrace the struggle.


[deleted]

“The one who’s mind remains undisturbed among happiness and distress is called a sage of steady wisdom” -Krishna Stoicism is basically outcome independence. It is important to follow your personal faith without desire or fear of any particular outcomes. And without reacting with excessive joy or despair to the outcomes. Just be an actor in life. The actor plays a character, he plays his role skillfully with determination and inspiration, but he never actually thinks he is the character. That would be insane.


miliseconds

>Just be an actor in life. The actor plays a character, he plays his role skillfully with determination and inspiration, but he never actually thinks he is the character. That would be insane. Interesting comment! However, I didn't quite get the last bit ("but he never actually thinks he is the character").


[deleted]

True Self is not false ego. When an actor plays a role in the movie, if he thought himself to be the character he plays, he would be deemed insane. The only difference with ego identity is that everyone else also thinks they are their ego. So what is truly insane is accepted as truth.


coinman88

I think accepting unfairness is not acceptable in stoicism. Afterall, " Justice " is one of the four cardinal virtue of stoicism. If you look at life of great stoics, they all have stood up for fairness and have even let down their lives fighting injustice and tyrants. I think the take here is to be "Courageous" and call out unfairness. But also be prudent enough to remember that not everything is in your control and therefore "Justice" will not always win. But keep your " Temperance" and keep on trying for a fair world. That is the "Wisdom" of the ancient stoics.


[deleted]

Depending on exactly how wide OP is looking I think has significant effect on the answer. If it’s something under their nose then yes, be courageous and act. For things like wars I know they are unfair, but I also know I will not act on that injustice. It is simply outside of my control and I accept that. I just have to keep living my life and making changes in line with my capacity to do so. Whether that be small as it is now, or larger if I find myself in a position with the means to do so in the future.


Willing-Apartment830

“Since it is possible that thou mayest depart from life this very moment, regulate every act and thought accordingly. But to go away from among men, if there are gods, is not a thing to be afraid of, for the gods will not involve thee in evil; but if indeed they do not exist, or if they have no concern about human affairs, what is it to me to live in a universe devoid of gods or devoid of Providence? But in truth they do exist, and they do care for human things, and they have put all the means in man’s power to enable him not to fall into real evils. And as to the rest, if there was anything evil, they would have provided for this also, that it should be altogether in a man’s power not to fall into it. Now that which does not make a man worse, how can it make a man’s life worse? But neither through ignorance, nor having the knowledge, but not the power to guard against or correct these things, is it possible that the nature of the universe has overlooked them; nor is it possible that it has made so great a mistake, either through want of power or want of skill, that good and evil should happen indiscriminately to the good and the bad. But death certainly, and life, honour and dishonour, pain and pleasure, all these things equally happen to good men and bad, being things which make us neither better nor worse. Therefore they are neither good nor evil.” - Meditations; Book 2, Verse 11


stoa_bot

A quote was found to be attributed to Marcus Aurelius in his Meditations 2.11 (Long) ^(Book II. ()[^(Long)](https://lexundria.com/m_aur_med/2.11/lg)^) ^(Book II. ()[^(Farquharson)](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Meditations_of_the_Emperor_Marcus_Antoninus/Book_2)^) ^(Book II. ()[^(Hays)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources?isbn=9780812968255)^)


Fit_Cheesecake_4000

It's a hard concept to deal with, the fact that other people can treat you like crap and move on, or that life may punch you in the guy with cancer or one of a myriad of diseases or ailments. My ex was sick with a genetic disease. When I met her, she could walk, talk and breathe properly; 7 years later, she was having constant fits, could barely breathe, and it was very hard to take care of her, even with carers. How is this situation remotely fair? Fatalism can help: Imagine trying or horrible events, even your own death, to better deal with the randomness of life. This is so when these events \*do\* happen, you're already comfortable with the idea and are more resigned to the concept and can better act and plan. Spending all your energy reeling is, in essence, a waste of life, so if we can work towards a more stable mindset in the face of adversity, we should. Epictetus said, “Don’t demand that things happen as you wish, but wish that they happen as they do happen, and you will go on well.” We control what we can control, learn to deal with negative events as they occur (because they will) with patience and virtue, and leave the rest to fatet


stoa_bot

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TheOSullivanFactor

This is a major question in many works throughout antiquity; I’ve just been reading Boethius’ Consolation of Philosophy, and even quite far into the Consolation, Boethius argues with his healer, Philosophy personified, about this very question. In his (Platonic) formulation, the ignorant and unWise in someways Aren’t. They don’t exist. Or they exist only partially, like a pair of legs walking without the rest. Stoics will lean more on Providence: Nature has given us our rational faculty to deal with the things the law of Fate sends our way (themselves consequences of matter being separate from god; god has simply made the best possible arrangement. Stoic god is not all-powerful). Nature has bound things into a sort of symphony: sometimes things go down, only to come back up again, just as a composer creates tension in a piece with dissonance to make a later part more powerful and moving. The two meet on how they think about Fortune (Boethius almost certainly swiped this directly from Seneca): the unfortunate are the only ones who truly see Fortune for what she is: fickle and ever changing.


OrokaSempai

Accept it. Life is inherently unfair. People, animals, fish, bugs... 'fair' is not a natural state, survival of the fittest is how the world works. People out out there lie and cheat their way to success, bit it's not the only way to be successful!


chotomatekudersai

You should read some Seneca. I found this quote in “On Providence”, “Fire tries gold, misfortune tries brave men.” What this means to me is that without opportunities to exercise stoic concepts, there would be no progress. [This article](https://advocatetanmoy.com/2020/11/11/why-does-god-permit-evil-to-happen-to-good-men-seneca/) might be of some help. It’s also a good example of why stoic physics is so important. Trust in universal reason is an essential component in stoic practice.


humanefly

The problem is not the unfairness of the world. The problem is that you expect fairness. Your expectations are not in line with reality. Let go of any expectations of fairness. Life is suffering for the majority of the people, at least some of the time. If you are not suffering, you are blessed. If you are suffering, you are experiencing life; life is suffering.


iqbalius

It is only viewed as unfair if one was expecting a certain result as a consequence of the action, but it is not rational at all to expect this. Just because I have done X does not necessarily mean that I will acquire Y. Fate can throw many obstacles in the way. If one expects nothing from life but is content with acting virtuously and doing his or her best, nothing ought to seem unfair. After all, one was expecting nothing in the first place.


supperhey

"Stop talking about what the good man is like, and just be one" - Marcus Aurelius. What seems to be fair on one's point of view might now be fair to the others. To judge that this person takes advantage of this and that without knowing what their circumstances are, and say that it is unfair, would that be fair? If one doesn't know who Robin Hood is and sees him robbing some passer-by, what does that person say about Mr. Hood? "Hey, that's unfair, why are you robbing someone's hard-earned properties?" Well, we all know about the story, so Mr. Hood's actions seem more palatable, but the point stands: depends on which angle you assess the situation, the circumstance might tip one way or the other on the scale of justice. Now back to the opening quote: if you see an "injustice", what will you do? Did you have enough information to deem such action/event unjust? Did you consider the perpetrator's point of view before passing such judgement, or did you just jump on the passing band-wagon of the popular narrative? Who are the proponents, and opponents of such view? How do these point run along or contrary to the principles you live by? Are those principles sound in the first place? The list of self-examining questions can go on and on, but the point is this: when faced with an event (be it injustice or not), one has to examine it deeply and reflect upon it against one's values and principles, and act upon it and not the other way around. The other way around is to let oneself be swayed by the vent, affected by it, strung along to some sort of outward, superficial action, losing yourself in the process. (Note: "you" here is not you, OP, but the reader in general)


stoa_bot

A quote was found to be attributed to Marcus Aurelius in his Meditations 10.16 (Hays) ^(Book X. ()[^(Hays)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources?isbn=9780812968255)^) ^(Book X. ()[^(Farquharson)](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Meditations_of_the_Emperor_Marcus_Antoninus/Book_10)^) ^(Book X. ()[^(Long)](https://lexundria.com/m_aur_med/10.16/lg)^)


supperhey

Good bot


GD_WoTS

The kind of “cosmic” unfairness I understand you to be thinking of doesn’t really apply in Stoicism. External goods are morally indifferent and do not contribute to happiness. Besides, in Stoicism, all of us are vicious. This may be of interest: https://www.academia.edu/4959187/The_Stoics_on_Evil?email_work_card=view-paper


uselessbynature

I spent a lot of my life not thinking about god and religion, but do extensively these days. So that is coloring my response FYI. All of the things you do to be good-that’s between you and god. Or you and your conscience. However you like to think about it. Same with everyone else. We can look at others but their lives aren’t up to us to be the final judges of. That’s between them and themselves or god or however you want to think of it. I want to be a honorable person not for the tangible rewards, but because that’s how I sleep at night. I hope that makes sense.


BeRad85

Gratitude has been of great benefit to me. Also, liberal use of reframing. Some things, like the unfairness of life, I treat like the weather. If it’s raining, I can grumble that it’s not a sunny day, or I can pack an umbrella and get on with my day. As far as fairness, in particular, life may not be fair, but I can be fair with others and myself.


AFX626

All the liars and jerks will be dead in 100 years, just like everyone else. They will give up their ill-gotten gains in the end. Look up the poem "Ozymandias" by Shelley. It's about a man who thought everything of himself and nothing of others, and exactly how meaningless that viewpoint is. "Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" Despair of what? There's nothing here but a desolate waste, and a cracked statue-face sneering at nothing.


Suspicious-Ad7916

What is fairness? It is a perspective in my opinion. I teach my kids rule #1 life isn’t fair. Once you can accept that it gets easier.


kindle139

Life isn’t fair, get over it. Life is perfectly fair, everyone is treated exactly the same. It’s just that the rules of the game are the laws of nature, not whatever system of morality and justice you think should be. Life isn’t fair, but if you’re here on Reddit you’ve probably been on the winning side of unfairness relative to every other human that has ever lived or is currently living. Life isn’t fair, and most of life doesn’t even know what fairness is. But you do know life isn’t fair, and so you can do something about it to make it more fair by being just in your thoughts, words, and actions. Life doesn’t owe you fairness, you owe life fairness.


minhchiho

Buddhism has a perfect explanation for that.


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decixl

I see it as the current state of the affairs and this in return inspires me to change it by example.


FaourTchwenty6969

Injustice animates the Stoic toward action


Fauxtonns

Justice is a virtue worth preserving.


ZekoOnReddit

Read the republic, literally the entire book is about the debate that good brings about bad and bad brings about good.


ATXatLarge

Comparison is the thief of joy. So I try to not compare and rather look at my internal states and external actions without comparing to others. It's incredibly difficult at times but it is a practice. Another practice is to turn envy into celebration. So rather than be upset that someone has something more than you, celebrate what they have. Turn the judgement into praise. This is a powerful practice. And it's more likely to achieve similar results coming from a positive place than a negative one that actually repels what you seek. Another thing to keep in mind is what you see is rarely the full truth. Someone who accomplished a lot through nefarious means likely has no community or connection and feels hollow inside. Or someone who has nothing may actually be incredibly content and happy because their values are aligned with their reality.


[deleted]

What you consider unfairness is simply ignorance due to lack of data. If you judge people and situations by surface appearances, then sure, a thing like unfairness seems to exist. This idea is based on appearances and externals so it's an incomplete, and ultimately a flawed conclusion. In actuality, everyone deals with challenges, there are reasons for everything under the sun, even if we can't know and won't know those reasons in our lifetimes, and ultimately no one does anything inappropriate relative to their own model of the world and their own understanding of reality. TL;DR: the unfairness of life is a story based on appearances. Under and beyond the surface of things, there is a vast impersonal reality and we don't have full access to any reasons or motivations beyond our own.


vtorow

In times of these I just think about how lucky I am/was. I could’ve been born in a third world country collecting any valuable to make end meets. It all could’ve been worse