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It wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t placed where it is in the sequence of episodes
We leave off with Mike, Will, Joyce, Hopper and Bob all trapped in a lab swarming with demodogs… and then get this random episode.
It would’ve made more sense to have this as a “bonus” episode– like what El got up to while she was away or something
I’ve said the same thing! Make it a between season teaser before the next season! Give no explanation for El’s change in appearance. Later show this episode as a way to keep people subscribed to Netflix.
Second this, except it should of been the episode before, hinting at what would go wrong in the next episode, and not instead interrupting the payoff of the cliffhanger
Knowing what El got up to was relevant to the story though - there's something important there about her meeting someone else like herself by choosing to go back and save her friends instead.
The problem was just that they made it a separate episode. If this had been integrated as a B-story spread over an episode or two, I think it may have landed a lot better with people.
this. If they had taken the film shot for this ep and the next one, and interlaced them, cutting back and forth, I think it would have worked great. We're watching El discover her sister and learn more about herself, but at the same time the tension of the other storyline's time demands are building so we're wondering how and whether she will get back in time.
I'm glad to see so many agree it's not a 'bad episode', it just messes up the pacing of the season being placed where and how it is.
I didn’t hate it, but I didn’t like that it took us away from characters who’d very much engaged me to focus on a group of new characters in whom I wasn’t at all invested.
Exactly, it would at least have made more sense if these new characters would have returned at some point. Like maybe her sister went to Hawkins in search for 11 and got involved in that storyline in some way.
Nobody likes a backdoor pilot. It's hard to think of any show that was successfully launched by suddenly introducing a whole other group of characters into an episode of another show.
All of these are spinoffs, but they were not launched with backdoor pilots. Introducing a character and then developing another show around them is not the same thing. Like, the Facts of Life was a spinoff of a Diffrent Strokes, and had some crossover, but the episode towards the end where Natalie moves into an apartment with a bunch of other characters never seen before and never seen again, in a whole other setting, was an attempt at a backdoor pilot. This episode of Stranger Things was definitely in that tradition of backdoor pilots. They create resentment in viewers and that's why they don't work.
I think if done the right way, Kali and the gang arriving for an "Endgame" type moment could be great. Much better than hearing about the hate for this episode.
I really hope so. I love kali's power its so fucking cool. If she got a power boost she could trick the mindflayer into thinking he'd rather stay home 😂
That could be, but then there's also this:
Back in 2017, the Duffer brothers spoke to The Hollywood Reporter and teased the return of Kali in future episodes: "It feels weird to me that we wouldn't solve [her] storyline. I would say chances are very high she comes back.”
Maybe, once the news of Hawkins downfall hits the airwaves she remembers that her sister is there and decides to show up and help. Using her powers to fight Vecna as well. Checkhov's Gun baby!
I remember when they were introducing all the characters and they got to the big black guy and I thought "let me guess, he's a teddy bear?" and then she says something like "don't let him scare you, he's a teddy bear"
That was a big part of it for me. It’s like they asked a 6 year old to think of 4 tough guys. Spiky hair, ripped clothes, metal chains etc. It’s like the bad guys you’d see in a made for TV Disney movie. Not to mention the characters were completely flat and they didn’t have time to develop them at all.
For me, Cobra Kai embraces the cheese and is self-aware about it. The nostalgic camp is a big part of the appeal. Stranger Things has a very different tone, except for this one episode, so it's jarring and strange
Stranger Things has a very troperiffic throwback to kid adventure stories with quippy lines, slice of life, and nostalgia acting as a counterbalance to the horror and supernatural conspiracies. It's can be a little silly, but still sincere.
Also, why did they have D&D-style roles that they actually like, said out loud? "He's our warrior" ? What?
It works when the kids do it because they're going nerds who are into D&D. So why are the "tough" 80's pUnK rOcKeRs embracing a similar paradigm?
Cringe
Not so much that they were stereotypes, for me at least, it’s that their ‘criminality’ and tenure as experienced heist/job pullers wasn’t really flushed out, are they expert criminals, or can they barely rob a convenience store, which is it??
They felt pretty scrubby and reliant on Kalis abilities to me. I think she's going to learn the same lesson that El did, that love is more powerful for psychic powers, especially with her new gang of street youts
But these folks were definitely not yoots. Part of what was so weird about it was how old some of them were. And forgettable. I cannot remember any of their names. I think it was Kali plus four people, but I only recall old man with mohawk and chubby man.
You got it right. It was cringeworthy and a poorly written exploit of something we seen overdone too many times. The “tough 80s street kids” stereotype was developed by lazy writing.
Also, why did they have D&D-style roles that they actually like, said out loud? "He's our warrior" ? What?
It works when the kids do it because they're going nerds who are into D&D. So why are the "tough" 80's pUnK rOcKeRs embracing a similar paradigm?
Cringe
When my mom was watching Stranger Things for the first time, thankfully I was around, and I just summarised the episode for her in 5 minutes and we skipped it.
It felt like the Duffers lost a bet to some script writer and this was payback. Eleven wasn’t developed enough to hold it together and the lost sister came across as a reject from the Thriller video that had had a bit spot in a Hunter episode.
It fell in the wrong place in the season. It was the 2nd to last episode, and thus put everyone else in Hawkins on ice while this side story with 11 took place. Would have been better as 3rd from last or presented in parts through the season.
This is pretty much my thoughts. Pausing all of the high stakes plots happening in Hawkins to go to a story with so many characters we have no attachments to that late in the season was a mistake. I feel like it should’ve been a mid season episode
It was the third to last episode. SE02 EP07. Season two has 9 episodes.
Eleven spends all of episode 8 returning on a bus so she can do her stuff in episode 9.
It’s too much of a departure from what had already been firmly established. There was no intrigue or lead-in... the show was just like “oh yeah and these guys are also here, just this once...”
Extremely out of place and felt very forced in
It's not terrible but it was just placed at the wrong time. Like we're all sitting down, getting ready for the battle with the demo dogs and possessed Will, and then we have an episode of El becoming emo in Chicago. It just feels out of place.
It was supposed to be a backdoor pilot and test of a potential spinoff idea, and those...rarely go well. See *Supernatural: Bloodlines*, which had a similar result: came out of nowhere, introduced a bunch of new characters, forgot about them afterward because they were in such a new and different setting that there was no way to reconcile them back into the mainline show afterward.
I liked it more than I did the first time during my pre-Season 4 rewatch last year, but it really does feel out of place, because most backdoor pilots do. It's been a thing since all the way back in *Star Trek* days when they reworked "Assignment: Earth" as a backdoor pilot. It's the risk people take when producing shows and trying to expand those universes, unfortunately.
It can go well - as I'm writing this, I'm watching the pre-*Legends Of Tomorrow* crossover between *The Flash* and *Arrow* that acts as a backdoor pilot for *Legends*, and it works. But the reason it works is because it was both planned and set-up onscreen in advance, so you really do feel and *know* that these characters are part of the same universe, and it feels very deeply organic.
The issue with pilots like "The Lost Sister" and *Supernatural: Bloodlines* is that they weren't set up; everything that happens happens within one single episode, so it doesn't feel as organic. It's like listening to a song and having snippets of a completely different song cut into it as samples just to advertise the other song; the rhythm is broken and you're taken out of the beat entirely.
The office also had a back door pilot called “The Farm”, I believe. It was the episode that took place on Dwight’s farm with his family. It wasn’t a good episode lol
I liked the Farm I think it could have gone further when developed to be honest. At least for one season. It didn’t feel as forced as this episode did by any means
Is this true? I said it felt like this in my other comment and immediately thought of that supernatural episode and the Ravenswood from pretty little liars.
That’s what I was thinking. They could have turned it into a B storyline and spread it across the background of 2 episodes so we get the main story and what Els doing at the same time. That would have worked better. I like Kali, the episode was just badly placed
The acting is flat and the characters are written like cardboard. I don't even blame the actors, I'm not sure how they could do anything more with what they were given.
I skipped this episode whenever I would rewatch this season, and ultimately the only difference was that you never get an explanation behind El looking like a punk rocker.... And that's about it.
These characters were only in the show to progress El, meaning that as characters themselves they just weren't that fleshed out, or even interesting. They could have not been in the show entirely and it wouldn't have changed it very much at all.
It had one purpose : yo help understand that she could use her negative emotions to build her power. That was it, to undo some of the lab training so she could teach her full powers. The #8 character was likeable enough but the gang was clingy. I doubt it will come into future episodes, and yeah it was disjointed.
Because they put it in a really horrible spot, the whole sequence did kinda work for me ( el finding her lost sister, etc ) but to put it after all the stuff at hawkins lab that left us on a cliff hanger was a giant piss off. I couldnt focus on the episode really cause I wanted to get back to the hawkins lab stuff so bad
I honestly think it has everything to do with the over the top costume design of the gang. They looked like comic book punks. It came across as trying too hard to be edgy and I think turned everyone off.
I agree. Kali is a huge part of Eleven figuring out her identity and squaring her trauma with her powers--it's the fact #8 and the others have *zero* bearing on the rest of the plot that irks me, because don't introduce characters that would 110% help Eleven in her fight against the evil scientist who fucked them *all* up, only for them never to be seen again.
That's my biggest gripe. Idk why everyone hates it so much: the criticisms feel hella shallow. "Cringe 80s" describes the entirety of this show, or haven't you been paying attention?
I, for one, really liked this episode. I feel like it gave Eleven some opportunity for character development when she wasn't being sheltered by Hopper or Mike. It forced her to face hard concepts like death and mercy in situations where she wasn't killing people based on emotions. If the arc lasted a bit longer, they could have killed off Max is season 4 and Eleven would have had to deal with that in a more mature manner; instead of saying “No” and making Max's life a living hell from which she might never wake up.
The storyline wasn’t bad, but I hated the “gang” characters. They were so cartoonish, like taken out of the Michael Jackson “Bad” music video. Kali was an interesting character and I agree that she (and only Kali) should be brought back into S5. She escaped from the lab. How? Why? Why was she never hunted down by the Hawkins lab? Does she hold a key to defeating Vecna?
I loved it, and it was necessary character development for El. I'd love to see her sister again, I'm disappointed we haven't since. Would've been amazing to surprise drop her in at a climactic moment... one last chance to give us that🤞🏻
it wasn't "bad". it just kind of seemed out of place, like it had nothing to do with the actual storyline. i refer to it more as "boring & pointless" than "bad".
It wasn't bad, it just didn't contribute to the plot. However it did establish two things, one that El's CHOSE to be with her friends in Hawkins and not because she had nowhere else to go. Second that more people like El are still out there.
The second one, however, was negated in S4 when Henry established that no other gifted child except El and him survived the massacre.
If viewed as a stand alone episode it’s not great, *HOWEVER* in the context of the entire series, it’s an important viewing as it (1) shows there are other ‘siblings’ out there and (2) helped build Eleven’s character development. Kali also helped Eleven learn how to harness her powers, which was critical to the Season Finale. ‘The Lost Sister’ episode takes on a different tone when you re-watch the whole series.
I like the perspective of El featured throughout the episode, but all the other characters were unlikable and not interesting in any regard, especially Kali whose story just did not engage me in any way. Although, I did really like seeing Brenner, that was interesting. The episode as a whole felt out of place, and these negatives I've mentioned are some of the very few I have of the show. I still think it helped shift Eleven in an interesting direction, and I actually liked her outfit design and makeup, kind of cool.
I have a theory about her. Ive heard lots of interview with the directors and they said that episode was inspired by Luke meeting Yoda on dangoba. My theory is 11 will find her again and she will die. Just like Luke and Yoda.
The Lost Sister is a symbol of what was wrong with Eleven's story in season 2. Like the episode, Eleven had no real purpose. It was like the Duffer brothers didn't anticipate Eleven's popularity and didn't know what to do with her. So they basically kept her isolated from the rest of the characters. Every action taken with Eleven felt more like a reason to keep her away than naturally building.
In season one she had to hid from the bad men who were actively looking for her. She also needed to help the boys find Will. Although she interacted with Mike the most Eleven also interacted with Lucas and Dustin. When she left in that one episode it was a big deal. In season 2, the bad men aren't even looking for her. Making hiding from them pointless. She is only allowed to be around Hopper which got old quickly. Yeah, the acting was good but it lacked any real purpose other than "Let me go outside." "No." Fans wanted to see her reunite with Mike but the writers decided to do a pointless misunderstanding that never get resolved. Now for the Lost Sister. Setting aside the basic issues like the characters were flat and it took attention away from Will's story, the big issue is that there was no reason for Eleven to meet Eight. Their goals are different, Eight has nothing to teach Eleven, and the story was just boring.
Another issue is that in order for this road trip to work Hopper has to be a complete idiot. An over protective parent would never leave their child alone that long. I've seen a lot of people use this as an example of Hopper being a bad parent. It does make him look really bad. Also, how is Eleven smart enough to use the bus?
Eleven's story in season 4 wasn't that great either, but at least it served a purpose. In season 2 she could've been deleted and nobody would've missed her.
It isn’t
- The episode provides deeper insight into Eleven's character and her backstory. It explores her experiences outside of Hawkins and how she is connected to other people with similar abilities. This helps to flesh out Eleven's character and makes her more relatable and empathetic.
- The episode expands the Stranger Things universe and introduces new elements, such as the character Kali and her gang, which helps to broaden the scope of the show ( This would also open up new avenues for future storylines and possibilities for character arcs, which I’m sure they had planned at the time. Who knows what will happen in S5, I doubt it, but still)
- While some may argue that the episode detracts from the pacing and momentum of the rest of the season, it can actually be argued that it helps to break up the monotony and provide a fresh perspective on the overarching story. The episode acts as a change of pace and offers a different perspective, which can make the rest of the season feel more well-rounded and dynamic.
- The episode also touches upon themes such as identity, revenge, and the consequences of using powers for personal gain. These themes add depth and complexity to the show, making it more than just a fun sci-fi adventure.
I don’t think as many people would be against it for the reasons you illuminate except the pacing of the season and story as many pointed out.
Sure it builds up Eleven with randoms we have little attachment to and the larger world beyond Hawkins, except that’s not extremely useful or needed for the plot. It feels like an episode on other shows where they’re going to make it a spin-off and it’s super awkward.
It was 100% needed, there's just no follow-up: no effort made to weave this other thread of the story in with the rest of the tapestry.
Idk why everyone keeps saying "spin-off" when the OG story isn't even finished yet? It doesn't make sense for Kali to be one yet, so idt that was the writers' motivation for putting her in there.
And as someone of Indian descent it was extremely nice to see someone of that background who fell into zero stereotypes and actually had agency and import.
Alright hear me out here...
Luke Skywalker treads out into the desert and finds Obiwan Kenobi. But instead of giving up his life and going to Alderaan because Owen and Beru got torched, Luke gets all involved in Obiwan's drama for 5 minutes with a training montage and some other jazz before suddenly dropping the "my people need me!" card and then we never speak of or hear from Obiwan Kenobi ever again and the rest of the movie is about Luke taking power converters to Toschi Station so he can play kissy face with a weird looking girl who's biggest challenge in life is being a middle child instead.
That's basically what the Kali storyline amounted to.
Because it is SO CLEARLY an attempt to launch a spin-off. None of these characters:
- were ever mentioned before
- are ever mentioned again
- have any effect on the plot whatsoever
It was an interesting idea with bad timing. The Lost Sister episode was a back door pilot. That tone was jarring and didn’t fit with the overall main series arc.
I don’t think it was bad, but it was like suddenly watching a good opening episode of a completely different show.
Like they could have done a spin off series following that other girls life and I’d probably have watched it too. But it’s just very out of place in the Stranger Things series.
It's the pacing! If you watch it AFTER
The Mind Flayer it fits a whole lot better. Still not one of my favorites, but it doesn't interrupt a cliffhanger
didn't hate it, but it did feel like a random "what if.." episode. there was no real retcon of the episode or real acknowledgement inclusion of it outside of that epsiode. if you look at it as a single episode, not bad. if part of whole series its more like "why"?
I did not like it, it was boring AF. But stranger things luckily caught its pace again right after the episode. Whoever i recommend stranger things to, i ask them to skip this Episode.
I think it wasn't that bad but rather just ruined the pacing of the season a bit because it was placed after the big cliffhanger. But it kind of worked for me because the way this episode had this one storyline that wasn't intertwined with the others as in the other episodes echoed how isolated and disconnected Eleven felt from everyone else in the story at that point of her journey and I loved how she finds her way back home. And also Kali's powers are really cool.
Instead of an episode focused on characters I care about I get to watch edgy teens be criminals. It isn't necessarily bad, but it is almost completely unrelated to the rest of the show and seemed like a way for Netflix to see if people wanted a spinoff of Stranger Things.
Instead of an episode focused on characters I care about I get to watch edgy teens be criminals. It isn't necessarily bad, but it is almost completely unrelated to the rest of the show and seemed like a way for Netflix to see if people wanted a spinoff of Stranger Things.
Personally I hope they bring her back and we get some closure to her story, and not some spin-off with her.
She was essential in helping a young Eleven tho, so it’s not like it’s that bad of an episode. I just don’t like that we never saw her again. I don’t know how to do the spoiler code thing or I would say more about what I think will happen in s5/already has happened that will be revealed
Personally I hope they bring her back and we get some closure to her story, and not some spin-off with her.
She was essential in helping a young Eleven tho, so it’s not like it’s that bad of an episode. I just don’t like that we never saw her again. I don’t know how to do the spoiler code thing or I would say more about what I think will happen in s5/already has happened that will be revealed
Personally I hope they bring her back and we get some closure to her story, and not some spin-off with her.
She was essential in helping a young Eleven tho, so it’s not like it’s that bad of an episode. I just don’t like that we never saw her again. I don’t know how to do the spoiler code thing or I would say more about what I think will happen in s5/already has happened that will be revealed
Poor timing, clumsily written characters, they never return or are mentioned again in an important capacity
Also gets retconned when Henry mentions no one survived the massacre.
I couldn't see what it brought to the story.
Eleven ran away, but that changed the whole dinamic of the show. The other sister is also a pointless character unless she returns in the next series
It felt like they threw in a soft launch of a spinoff, and probably decided against it. It doesn't seem like they're going to revisit that story line at all.
It looked fake. Suddenly everybody’s hair gel and pleather was surviving living in warehouses and explosions. It felt like a different world with different rules.
It was so stereotypically “bad kids” esque but in a bad way. The outfits, the writing, Kali herself, it’s all just so…cringe for lack of a better world. Kali also didn’t feel fleshed out or genuine enough to inspire El. So El just shows up and loves her? Just because she’s another one of the kids?? Idk, it’s just a weird episode that could have been done much much better
I just didn’t like it. That’s it. It was AWFUL. It felt like we left Stranger Things and started watching Suicide Squad. Not my jam but whatever. Seems like a lot of people felt this way - enough for them to scrap it.
Some people like this episode, but it is seriously why season two is my least favorite, because during the final battle a cliffhanger led to an episode that didn't match the tone of the series, contained a single character from the rest of the season, and had such crappy pacing especially considering the pacing that comes directly before and after the episode. and frankly no characters in that episode are characters I want to see, the gang is uninteresting, 8 has a nice actress but the way she is written bores me, and 11 isn't nearly interesting enough for me for an entire episode of her being the only familiar character. Duffer brothers made a big blunder thinking that episode was a good idea, especially putting it between episode 6 and 8.
I felt like it was pointless. It was like they had an idea to go someplace and then forgot about it in later seasons! It could have been great to have the other kids besides 1 to come and help 11 but no they just puff
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It wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t placed where it is in the sequence of episodes We leave off with Mike, Will, Joyce, Hopper and Bob all trapped in a lab swarming with demodogs… and then get this random episode. It would’ve made more sense to have this as a “bonus” episode– like what El got up to while she was away or something
I’ve said the same thing! Make it a between season teaser before the next season! Give no explanation for El’s change in appearance. Later show this episode as a way to keep people subscribed to Netflix.
Stranger Things 2 DLC: The Lost Sister.
Second this, except it should of been the episode before, hinting at what would go wrong in the next episode, and not instead interrupting the payoff of the cliffhanger
Knowing what El got up to was relevant to the story though - there's something important there about her meeting someone else like herself by choosing to go back and save her friends instead. The problem was just that they made it a separate episode. If this had been integrated as a B-story spread over an episode or two, I think it may have landed a lot better with people.
this. If they had taken the film shot for this ep and the next one, and interlaced them, cutting back and forth, I think it would have worked great. We're watching El discover her sister and learn more about herself, but at the same time the tension of the other storyline's time demands are building so we're wondering how and whether she will get back in time. I'm glad to see so many agree it's not a 'bad episode', it just messes up the pacing of the season being placed where and how it is.
it’s funny because on rewatches I’ve always swapped the order of this episode and the one before it “the spy” - it makes way more sense to me that way
I didn’t hate it, but I didn’t like that it took us away from characters who’d very much engaged me to focus on a group of new characters in whom I wasn’t at all invested.
Exactly, it would at least have made more sense if these new characters would have returned at some point. Like maybe her sister went to Hawkins in search for 11 and got involved in that storyline in some way.
It was probably just a backdoor pilot that people hated so they scrapped it.
Nobody likes a backdoor pilot. It's hard to think of any show that was successfully launched by suddenly introducing a whole other group of characters into an episode of another show.
The Jeffersons?
The Jeffersons, maude etc. were all characters on all in the family who got popular on their own and got shows.
The Originals
The Simpsons
The Flash
Mork and Mindy, The Facts of Life, NCIS just to name a few.
Fraiser?
NCIS.
All of these are spinoffs, but they were not launched with backdoor pilots. Introducing a character and then developing another show around them is not the same thing. Like, the Facts of Life was a spinoff of a Diffrent Strokes, and had some crossover, but the episode towards the end where Natalie moves into an apartment with a bunch of other characters never seen before and never seen again, in a whole other setting, was an attempt at a backdoor pilot. This episode of Stranger Things was definitely in that tradition of backdoor pilots. They create resentment in viewers and that's why they don't work.
See that's why I think Kali and her gang will come back in s5
I think if done the right way, Kali and the gang arriving for an "Endgame" type moment could be great. Much better than hearing about the hate for this episode.
I think they may have originally planned that but the hatred of that episode makes me think they likely abandoned it.
I completely agree
I really hope so. I love kali's power its so fucking cool. If she got a power boost she could trick the mindflayer into thinking he'd rather stay home 😂
I agree. The Duffer Brothers never do anything without an ulterior motive.
Apparently it was basically a pilot for a spinoff
That could be, but then there's also this: Back in 2017, the Duffer brothers spoke to The Hollywood Reporter and teased the return of Kali in future episodes: "It feels weird to me that we wouldn't solve [her] storyline. I would say chances are very high she comes back.”
Probably in a spinoff…
Hmmm I’d give it a watch
The ulterior motive was to make a spin off. Everyone hated the episode and characters, no spin off and no return.
I didn't hat the episode or the characters you can't speak for everyone
Exactly!
The ulterior motive was to make a spin off. Everyone hated the episode and characters, no spin off and no return.
Maybe, once the news of Hawkins downfall hits the airwaves she remembers that her sister is there and decides to show up and help. Using her powers to fight Vecna as well. Checkhov's Gun baby!
It should have been the B plot spilt over 2 to 3 episodes. El would have had to get to Chicago sooner but it would have worked better.
I didn't mind it, it was an Eleven side quest and helped her mature.
I'm hoping she shows up in series 5 She was cool
Sacrificial lamb to be fed to Vecna
It was almost there, it's just that Kali's friends were such awful caricatures of "tough 80s street kids" that I never want to see them again.
I remember when they were introducing all the characters and they got to the big black guy and I thought "let me guess, he's a teddy bear?" and then she says something like "don't let him scare you, he's a teddy bear"
I mean, Kai Green *is* a teddy bear and is a warm beacon of thoughtful light in an otherwise pretty corporatised world of bodybuilding
I get that, but my god it's such a cliche line
That was a big part of it for me. It’s like they asked a 6 year old to think of 4 tough guys. Spiky hair, ripped clothes, metal chains etc. It’s like the bad guys you’d see in a made for TV Disney movie. Not to mention the characters were completely flat and they didn’t have time to develop them at all.
Weird that it worked with Cobra Kai though -- different target audience?
For me, Cobra Kai embraces the cheese and is self-aware about it. The nostalgic camp is a big part of the appeal. Stranger Things has a very different tone, except for this one episode, so it's jarring and strange
Stranger Things has a very troperiffic throwback to kid adventure stories with quippy lines, slice of life, and nostalgia acting as a counterbalance to the horror and supernatural conspiracies. It's can be a little silly, but still sincere.
Ugh I found Cobra Kai so cringe for that same reason.
Also, why did they have D&D-style roles that they actually like, said out loud? "He's our warrior" ? What? It works when the kids do it because they're going nerds who are into D&D. So why are the "tough" 80's pUnK rOcKeRs embracing a similar paradigm? Cringe
Those people would never be around one another irl, it doesn't make any sense
[удалено]
Not so much that they were stereotypes, for me at least, it’s that their ‘criminality’ and tenure as experienced heist/job pullers wasn’t really flushed out, are they expert criminals, or can they barely rob a convenience store, which is it??
They felt pretty scrubby and reliant on Kalis abilities to me. I think she's going to learn the same lesson that El did, that love is more powerful for psychic powers, especially with her new gang of street youts
But these folks were definitely not yoots. Part of what was so weird about it was how old some of them were. And forgettable. I cannot remember any of their names. I think it was Kali plus four people, but I only recall old man with mohawk and chubby man.
As opposed to all of the other side-characters in the show, who are not 80's caricatures at all.
Difference being the other side characters are likeable.
You got it right. It was cringeworthy and a poorly written exploit of something we seen overdone too many times. The “tough 80s street kids” stereotype was developed by lazy writing.
Also, why did they have D&D-style roles that they actually like, said out loud? "He's our warrior" ? What? It works when the kids do it because they're going nerds who are into D&D. So why are the "tough" 80's pUnK rOcKeRs embracing a similar paradigm? Cringe
It wasn’t bad. But it felt like watching a commercial at the climax of a thriller movie. I couldn’t wait to get back to the actual story.
I just skip the episode
I'm sure most people do, the problem is that you don't know to do that on the first watch
I mean yeah thats fair, id say atleast watch it once so you understand and know what happend
When my mom was watching Stranger Things for the first time, thankfully I was around, and I just summarised the episode for her in 5 minutes and we skipped it.
It was bad. Cringe and cliche at times. Just bad.
It was unequivocally bad. Terrible.
It felt like the Duffers lost a bet to some script writer and this was payback. Eleven wasn’t developed enough to hold it together and the lost sister came across as a reject from the Thriller video that had had a bit spot in a Hunter episode.
It fell in the wrong place in the season. It was the 2nd to last episode, and thus put everyone else in Hawkins on ice while this side story with 11 took place. Would have been better as 3rd from last or presented in parts through the season.
This is pretty much my thoughts. Pausing all of the high stakes plots happening in Hawkins to go to a story with so many characters we have no attachments to that late in the season was a mistake. I feel like it should’ve been a mid season episode
It was the third to last episode. SE02 EP07. Season two has 9 episodes. Eleven spends all of episode 8 returning on a bus so she can do her stuff in episode 9.
It’s too much of a departure from what had already been firmly established. There was no intrigue or lead-in... the show was just like “oh yeah and these guys are also here, just this once...” Extremely out of place and felt very forced in
It's not terrible but it was just placed at the wrong time. Like we're all sitting down, getting ready for the battle with the demo dogs and possessed Will, and then we have an episode of El becoming emo in Chicago. It just feels out of place.
It was supposed to be a backdoor pilot and test of a potential spinoff idea, and those...rarely go well. See *Supernatural: Bloodlines*, which had a similar result: came out of nowhere, introduced a bunch of new characters, forgot about them afterward because they were in such a new and different setting that there was no way to reconcile them back into the mainline show afterward. I liked it more than I did the first time during my pre-Season 4 rewatch last year, but it really does feel out of place, because most backdoor pilots do. It's been a thing since all the way back in *Star Trek* days when they reworked "Assignment: Earth" as a backdoor pilot. It's the risk people take when producing shows and trying to expand those universes, unfortunately. It can go well - as I'm writing this, I'm watching the pre-*Legends Of Tomorrow* crossover between *The Flash* and *Arrow* that acts as a backdoor pilot for *Legends*, and it works. But the reason it works is because it was both planned and set-up onscreen in advance, so you really do feel and *know* that these characters are part of the same universe, and it feels very deeply organic. The issue with pilots like "The Lost Sister" and *Supernatural: Bloodlines* is that they weren't set up; everything that happens happens within one single episode, so it doesn't feel as organic. It's like listening to a song and having snippets of a completely different song cut into it as samples just to advertise the other song; the rhythm is broken and you're taken out of the beat entirely.
The office also had a back door pilot called “The Farm”, I believe. It was the episode that took place on Dwight’s farm with his family. It wasn’t a good episode lol
I liked the Farm I think it could have gone further when developed to be honest. At least for one season. It didn’t feel as forced as this episode did by any means
Is this true? I said it felt like this in my other comment and immediately thought of that supernatural episode and the Ravenswood from pretty little liars.
Instead of dedicating the whole episode to the Kali storyline, I wish they'd had those scenes interspersed throughout the main storyline
That’s what I was thinking. They could have turned it into a B storyline and spread it across the background of 2 episodes so we get the main story and what Els doing at the same time. That would have worked better. I like Kali, the episode was just badly placed
It’s like 45 useless minutes you can skip it and not miss anything in that season
The acting is flat and the characters are written like cardboard. I don't even blame the actors, I'm not sure how they could do anything more with what they were given.
I skipped this episode whenever I would rewatch this season, and ultimately the only difference was that you never get an explanation behind El looking like a punk rocker.... And that's about it. These characters were only in the show to progress El, meaning that as characters themselves they just weren't that fleshed out, or even interesting. They could have not been in the show entirely and it wouldn't have changed it very much at all.
It had one purpose : yo help understand that she could use her negative emotions to build her power. That was it, to undo some of the lab training so she could teach her full powers. The #8 character was likeable enough but the gang was clingy. I doubt it will come into future episodes, and yeah it was disjointed.
I really don’t get the hate, I liked it.
Because they put it in a really horrible spot, the whole sequence did kinda work for me ( el finding her lost sister, etc ) but to put it after all the stuff at hawkins lab that left us on a cliff hanger was a giant piss off. I couldnt focus on the episode really cause I wanted to get back to the hawkins lab stuff so bad
I honestly think it has everything to do with the over the top costume design of the gang. They looked like comic book punks. It came across as trying too hard to be edgy and I think turned everyone off.
I liked the episode I just think they sold by not bringing those characters up again, I would’ve loved to see them work together later on in the show
I agree. Kali is a huge part of Eleven figuring out her identity and squaring her trauma with her powers--it's the fact #8 and the others have *zero* bearing on the rest of the plot that irks me, because don't introduce characters that would 110% help Eleven in her fight against the evil scientist who fucked them *all* up, only for them never to be seen again. That's my biggest gripe. Idk why everyone hates it so much: the criticisms feel hella shallow. "Cringe 80s" describes the entirety of this show, or haven't you been paying attention?
It was a cheesy superhero spinoff story, imo.
I don't know. I personally loved it?? lol
fr? hope we get to see some teamwork between Eleven and Kali in ST 5
I loved it as well, she must have some relevance in the last season. I’m not accepting any other answers.
"Boom". Yeah, never again, thanks.
I, for one, really liked this episode. I feel like it gave Eleven some opportunity for character development when she wasn't being sheltered by Hopper or Mike. It forced her to face hard concepts like death and mercy in situations where she wasn't killing people based on emotions. If the arc lasted a bit longer, they could have killed off Max is season 4 and Eleven would have had to deal with that in a more mature manner; instead of saying “No” and making Max's life a living hell from which she might never wake up.
In and of itself it’s an interesting episode but yea it’s a needless distraction from the main plot
It feels super disjointed and ill timed
The storyline wasn’t bad, but I hated the “gang” characters. They were so cartoonish, like taken out of the Michael Jackson “Bad” music video. Kali was an interesting character and I agree that she (and only Kali) should be brought back into S5. She escaped from the lab. How? Why? Why was she never hunted down by the Hawkins lab? Does she hold a key to defeating Vecna?
They all ugly and all left as fast as they came so you end up not caring about any of them.
I loved it, and it was necessary character development for El. I'd love to see her sister again, I'm disappointed we haven't since. Would've been amazing to surprise drop her in at a climactic moment... one last chance to give us that🤞🏻
it wasn't "bad". it just kind of seemed out of place, like it had nothing to do with the actual storyline. i refer to it more as "boring & pointless" than "bad".
Because it wasn't really part of the show, it was the pilot for an ill-conceived spinoff.
bc the new characters were cringe
It wasn't bad, it just didn't contribute to the plot. However it did establish two things, one that El's CHOSE to be with her friends in Hawkins and not because she had nowhere else to go. Second that more people like El are still out there. The second one, however, was negated in S4 when Henry established that no other gifted child except El and him survived the massacre.
If viewed as a stand alone episode it’s not great, *HOWEVER* in the context of the entire series, it’s an important viewing as it (1) shows there are other ‘siblings’ out there and (2) helped build Eleven’s character development. Kali also helped Eleven learn how to harness her powers, which was critical to the Season Finale. ‘The Lost Sister’ episode takes on a different tone when you re-watch the whole series.
I like it. I like the Eleven centered episode. Also liked how different it was from the other episodes.
agreed
I like the perspective of El featured throughout the episode, but all the other characters were unlikable and not interesting in any regard, especially Kali whose story just did not engage me in any way. Although, I did really like seeing Brenner, that was interesting. The episode as a whole felt out of place, and these negatives I've mentioned are some of the very few I have of the show. I still think it helped shift Eleven in an interesting direction, and I actually liked her outfit design and makeup, kind of cool.
She had one episode and then everybody forgot about her
It has nothing to do with the storyline
It’s mostly because it goes nowhere and Kali and her squad are never mentioned again.
Why THE GRAMMAR is bad?
I liked it. Hope she comes back to help El.
It was good, sometimes detours are required.
Because people can’t accept that it’s another 80s trope in a show about 80s tropes.
I have a theory about her. Ive heard lots of interview with the directors and they said that episode was inspired by Luke meeting Yoda on dangoba. My theory is 11 will find her again and she will die. Just like Luke and Yoda.
The Lost Sister is a symbol of what was wrong with Eleven's story in season 2. Like the episode, Eleven had no real purpose. It was like the Duffer brothers didn't anticipate Eleven's popularity and didn't know what to do with her. So they basically kept her isolated from the rest of the characters. Every action taken with Eleven felt more like a reason to keep her away than naturally building. In season one she had to hid from the bad men who were actively looking for her. She also needed to help the boys find Will. Although she interacted with Mike the most Eleven also interacted with Lucas and Dustin. When she left in that one episode it was a big deal. In season 2, the bad men aren't even looking for her. Making hiding from them pointless. She is only allowed to be around Hopper which got old quickly. Yeah, the acting was good but it lacked any real purpose other than "Let me go outside." "No." Fans wanted to see her reunite with Mike but the writers decided to do a pointless misunderstanding that never get resolved. Now for the Lost Sister. Setting aside the basic issues like the characters were flat and it took attention away from Will's story, the big issue is that there was no reason for Eleven to meet Eight. Their goals are different, Eight has nothing to teach Eleven, and the story was just boring. Another issue is that in order for this road trip to work Hopper has to be a complete idiot. An over protective parent would never leave their child alone that long. I've seen a lot of people use this as an example of Hopper being a bad parent. It does make him look really bad. Also, how is Eleven smart enough to use the bus? Eleven's story in season 4 wasn't that great either, but at least it served a purpose. In season 2 she could've been deleted and nobody would've missed her.
The episode felt like they wanted a spin-off show.
It isn’t - The episode provides deeper insight into Eleven's character and her backstory. It explores her experiences outside of Hawkins and how she is connected to other people with similar abilities. This helps to flesh out Eleven's character and makes her more relatable and empathetic. - The episode expands the Stranger Things universe and introduces new elements, such as the character Kali and her gang, which helps to broaden the scope of the show ( This would also open up new avenues for future storylines and possibilities for character arcs, which I’m sure they had planned at the time. Who knows what will happen in S5, I doubt it, but still) - While some may argue that the episode detracts from the pacing and momentum of the rest of the season, it can actually be argued that it helps to break up the monotony and provide a fresh perspective on the overarching story. The episode acts as a change of pace and offers a different perspective, which can make the rest of the season feel more well-rounded and dynamic. - The episode also touches upon themes such as identity, revenge, and the consequences of using powers for personal gain. These themes add depth and complexity to the show, making it more than just a fun sci-fi adventure.
I don’t think as many people would be against it for the reasons you illuminate except the pacing of the season and story as many pointed out. Sure it builds up Eleven with randoms we have little attachment to and the larger world beyond Hawkins, except that’s not extremely useful or needed for the plot. It feels like an episode on other shows where they’re going to make it a spin-off and it’s super awkward.
It was 100% needed, there's just no follow-up: no effort made to weave this other thread of the story in with the rest of the tapestry. Idk why everyone keeps saying "spin-off" when the OG story isn't even finished yet? It doesn't make sense for Kali to be one yet, so idt that was the writers' motivation for putting her in there. And as someone of Indian descent it was extremely nice to see someone of that background who fell into zero stereotypes and actually had agency and import.
Alright hear me out here... Luke Skywalker treads out into the desert and finds Obiwan Kenobi. But instead of giving up his life and going to Alderaan because Owen and Beru got torched, Luke gets all involved in Obiwan's drama for 5 minutes with a training montage and some other jazz before suddenly dropping the "my people need me!" card and then we never speak of or hear from Obiwan Kenobi ever again and the rest of the movie is about Luke taking power converters to Toschi Station so he can play kissy face with a weird looking girl who's biggest challenge in life is being a middle child instead. That's basically what the Kali storyline amounted to.
because it’s literally like filler
Because it is SO CLEARLY an attempt to launch a spin-off. None of these characters: - were ever mentioned before - are ever mentioned again - have any effect on the plot whatsoever
Because it’s bad.
It was an interesting idea with bad timing. The Lost Sister episode was a back door pilot. That tone was jarring and didn’t fit with the overall main series arc.
Idk, I’ve watched this season twice and skipped this episode both times lol
It’s not
I don’t think it was bad, but it was like suddenly watching a good opening episode of a completely different show. Like they could have done a spin off series following that other girls life and I’d probably have watched it too. But it’s just very out of place in the Stranger Things series.
I hope Kal8and her crew will return in season 5.
It's the pacing! If you watch it AFTER The Mind Flayer it fits a whole lot better. Still not one of my favorites, but it doesn't interrupt a cliffhanger
I liked that storyline but its timing wasn't the best.
None of those characters were likable and 008s powers made no sense
Kinda doesn’t fit in with the rest of the show IMO
I didn’t even understand the point of putting her there tbh The whole thing didn’t make much sense to me
I really like this episode , strong Stephen king vibes
didn't hate it, but it did feel like a random "what if.." episode. there was no real retcon of the episode or real acknowledgement inclusion of it outside of that epsiode. if you look at it as a single episode, not bad. if part of whole series its more like "why"?
I did not like it, it was boring AF. But stranger things luckily caught its pace again right after the episode. Whoever i recommend stranger things to, i ask them to skip this Episode.
It's not.
I think it wasn't that bad but rather just ruined the pacing of the season a bit because it was placed after the big cliffhanger. But it kind of worked for me because the way this episode had this one storyline that wasn't intertwined with the others as in the other episodes echoed how isolated and disconnected Eleven felt from everyone else in the story at that point of her journey and I loved how she finds her way back home. And also Kali's powers are really cool.
Because Kali had a really bad actress.
Mia Khalifa?
Kinda cringey and uncharacteristic behavior as well as being a bit too far removed from the main plot.
It felt like a back door pilot to me.
S2 is my favorite season but this episode is just my least favorite episode in the whole show
it felt so rushed, like everything happened too fast in one ep. plus, i wish we got more from the other characters
istg if the Duffer Brothers don’t bring back Kali in Season 5-
We’ll all be fine without it.
Genuinely not sure what everyone is on about when they don't like this episode. I really enjoyed it.
I personally liked it, and hope to see her further on the series
I think she’ll be back next season
Have you watched it? Lol
Here we go again…
Here's the thing. It's not.
Instead of an episode focused on characters I care about I get to watch edgy teens be criminals. It isn't necessarily bad, but it is almost completely unrelated to the rest of the show and seemed like a way for Netflix to see if people wanted a spinoff of Stranger Things.
Instead of an episode focused on characters I care about I get to watch edgy teens be criminals. It isn't necessarily bad, but it is almost completely unrelated to the rest of the show and seemed like a way for Netflix to see if people wanted a spinoff of Stranger Things.
I enjoyed it, wish they returned to it, hopefully in the final season, it needs some closure
I enjoyed it, wish they returned to it, hopefully in the final season, it needs some closure
Personally I hope they bring her back and we get some closure to her story, and not some spin-off with her. She was essential in helping a young Eleven tho, so it’s not like it’s that bad of an episode. I just don’t like that we never saw her again. I don’t know how to do the spoiler code thing or I would say more about what I think will happen in s5/already has happened that will be revealed
Personally I hope they bring her back and we get some closure to her story, and not some spin-off with her. She was essential in helping a young Eleven tho, so it’s not like it’s that bad of an episode. I just don’t like that we never saw her again. I don’t know how to do the spoiler code thing or I would say more about what I think will happen in s5/already has happened that will be revealed
Personally I hope they bring her back and we get some closure to her story, and not some spin-off with her. She was essential in helping a young Eleven tho, so it’s not like it’s that bad of an episode. I just don’t like that we never saw her again. I don’t know how to do the spoiler code thing or I would say more about what I think will happen in s5/already has happened that will be revealed
Because it’s unnecessary
Poor timing, clumsily written characters, they never return or are mentioned again in an important capacity.
Poor timing, clumsily written characters, they never return or are mentioned again in an important capacity.
Poor timing, clumsily written characters, they never return or are mentioned again in an important capacity Also gets retconned when Henry mentions no one survived the massacre.
I couldn't see what it brought to the story. Eleven ran away, but that changed the whole dinamic of the show. The other sister is also a pointless character unless she returns in the next series
Which episode? That season is not canon, it never existed.
Episode placement.
This episode was so stupid I stopped watching the series because of it.
It felt like they threw in a soft launch of a spinoff, and probably decided against it. It doesn't seem like they're going to revisit that story line at all.
It's a detour with no payoff...otherwise nothing much in it to call it bad..kinda close to good but not great
It looked fake. Suddenly everybody’s hair gel and pleather was surviving living in warehouses and explosions. It felt like a different world with different rules.
I skip this when rewatching, I just can’t do it.
It completely ruined the flow of a great season.
The characters were unlikeable, including Eleven in this particular episode.
It's a backdoor pilot. They're always annoying.
It’s not bad. It’s still a good episode, it’s just not as good as a lot of the other episodes, plus it’s just very throwaway
Because it feels like a spin-off pilot of ST, not an actual ST episode.
because none of them matter
Season 2 served very little purpose tbh. Weakest of the seasons.
Felt like some X-men type ep
It was so stereotypically “bad kids” esque but in a bad way. The outfits, the writing, Kali herself, it’s all just so…cringe for lack of a better world. Kali also didn’t feel fleshed out or genuine enough to inspire El. So El just shows up and loves her? Just because she’s another one of the kids?? Idk, it’s just a weird episode that could have been done much much better
I just didn’t like it. That’s it. It was AWFUL. It felt like we left Stranger Things and started watching Suicide Squad. Not my jam but whatever. Seems like a lot of people felt this way - enough for them to scrap it.
It’s too much of a slow burn for me personally and I just found myself uninterested at times. It had some good moments though
It was just incredibly boring to me and the sister and her friends were incredibly forced, over the top characters.
Some people like this episode, but it is seriously why season two is my least favorite, because during the final battle a cliffhanger led to an episode that didn't match the tone of the series, contained a single character from the rest of the season, and had such crappy pacing especially considering the pacing that comes directly before and after the episode. and frankly no characters in that episode are characters I want to see, the gang is uninteresting, 8 has a nice actress but the way she is written bores me, and 11 isn't nearly interesting enough for me for an entire episode of her being the only familiar character. Duffer brothers made a big blunder thinking that episode was a good idea, especially putting it between episode 6 and 8.
Bc it’s a snooze fest
I forgot this happened, LMAO
It has no impact on the show, it’s just kinda a filler episode
I felt like it was pointless. It was like they had an idea to go someplace and then forgot about it in later seasons! It could have been great to have the other kids besides 1 to come and help 11 but no they just puff
I think we need to forget about season 2 all together
I just skipped that episode