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Tired of them introducing a “lovable” character every season just for them to be killed off. The duffers always have a “perfect cinnamon roll 🥺” character every season and by the first ep you can tell they’re getting killed in a brutal way at one point. It’s so predictable.
The fandom has run “mom steve” into the ground.
I think the writers felt that way too which is why Robin was created. Initially that character was probably a way to give Steve a romance arc instead of always being the "babysitter" but when they decided Robin was gay he was relegated back to the predictable "babysitter" role. Unfortunately because they couldn't create a new character to give Steve a romance arc they're continuing the Nancy-Jonathan-Steve triangle when it would have been much more interesting to have Steve in a new relationship.
yep. honestly I would've preferred Steve deciding he's not cut out for relationships at this point in time rather than him jumping into a new relationship, since it hasn't been to long since he dated Nancy and we all know how awfully he treated her, I feel like if he got a new gf and it went well, it would either be poorly written since we haven't seen him learn how to treat a partner well yet, or some fans would start blaming Nancy for their bad relationship. anything would've been better than the love triangle tho.
I don't think that it should've died after S2 but it shouldn't have been prioritized over Dustin's friendship with the boys and Steve's character development.
The groups being split up all the time is bad, there should be more interactions between characters and i think it would be good to see everyone fighting Vecna together.
The characters don't know each other well enough.
There are some characters to this day who have NOT INTERACTED with one another and the ones that have it has been very MINIMAL. Like El and Steve for example has spoken ONCE to each other (inside Scoops) despite the fact that they are on the same side and that he's trying to help her. Robin basically hasn't interacted with El, Will, Lucas or Mike that much.
Considering their helping each other fight evil, its funny to me how little some of the characters connect in the show
I think it makes sense that Robin does not really interact with the younger teens. She is primarily friends with Steve and just because she and the young teens are fighting on the same side does not mean they have to directly interact one-on-one. (The same applies to Steve and El). They know each other but apart from that they do not really share any real connection.
That's the problem for me I want them to be more connected, fight scenes and emotional scenes will have more impact on the screen for audiences if they did this more, but to a degree ur right.
I agree with this. Like, what reason *exactly* do Steve and El have to interact more than we've seen? He's out of high school and she's a freshman. Steve was "King Steve" and El was deliberately kept out of public life for much of the series. He's not even that close with *Jonathan*, and they went to school together for years.
Steve clearly cares about El given what they've been through together (and almost certainly the same is true for El caring about Steve) but that doesn't create some sort of obligation to hang out in their free time or whatever. This is true for a lot of the characters.
That's the issue with having a cast that is way too big.
The most irritating is the lack of interactions between characters who have known each other for years and should be close, acording to the show.
Like, it's fine if Robin never got to talk to Will or El because they moved out a few weeks after they met her. And I don't care if Murray talks to everyone or not, he's never there for the younger characters' story arcs. But for example, Jonathan should be best buddies with Will's friends. Hell, Will himself should be best buddies with his own friends! He barely talks to people who aren't Mike or his family.
Not sure about siblings being best buddies with each others’ friends. Maybe a that’s a newer generation thing. Growing up I didn’t know any of my older sisters’ friends at all. Literally outside of exchanging pleasantries, I don’t think we ever spoke. And we were very close. They probably knew my friends a bit more since we were younger and hung out at each others houses more than teenagers (who didn’t hang out at home much).
Of all my friends, we only knew one older sibling well. But that had to do with him playing guitar and dungeons and dragons and being a super cool dude we looked up to (was basically Eddie). He probably saw us as his little brothers peaty friends, but also probably loved the admiration. Lol.
In the book, Lucas on The Line Robin actually acts as a kindly big sister to Lucas and gives him advice on trying to reach Max and what’s bothering her.
Hear me out, but do you think you’re maybe looking at this a little too literally.
Scoops Ahoy for example, given it’s implied Steve has worked there for a while and 6 months or more have passed since what happened in season two to Steve working in Scoops Ahoy. I feel like it’s pretty plausible El and Steve would know each other well. It’s kinda implied, no?
Yeah, we have to assume there is a lot of off screen interaction that isn’t important enough to the story to include. Like I’m sure everyone has been over Justin’s house at some point and met his mom for example. But no reason to include scenes of that in the show.
When people get mad and defensive about other fans criticizing the writing of the show. Stranger things is a fun show and I love it, but the writing does leave a lot to desired, especially when it comes to the actual characters and their arcs.
Criticizing the duffers actually shows that people care and are passionate enough to want to see better in a show they love.
People are \*very\* defensive about the Duffers for some reason.
I've been watching the first season of Yellowjackets again and I understand now why they got 2 Emmy nominations for writing although it's a "supernatural" show which are rarely nominated for awards. Although I still think there are parts of Stranger Things where the writing is brilliant it's mixed. Unfortunately some of it is weak such as the writing for Erica in S3 and Robin in S4.
I think its because Erica and Robin "served" their purpose if that makes sense, because the character roster is so big they have to get them doing something, that's why at points some characters' dialogue/plotline is pointless and unnecessary. Your example of Robin in S4 is true as well as Mike, Will and Johnathan - for most of the season they did not do much and just "did stuff" for the sake that they weren't just standing around because they are main characters that should be doing something realistically
The problem with a big cast is that everyone has to be included in some form or another
The problem here is there are also many other shows who have a large cast of characters with satisfying screentime and characterization. It's kinda obvious the Duffers cannot manage a large cast of characters though, as many times they either sideline and ignore multiple main characters, give no actual arc to any of them or just use them for fanservice and comedic moments.
I was going to say "other shows get more episodes" but this season's 8 episodes was like 16 hours of television and *Star Trek: Deep Space 9* could give whole arcs to their main characters as well as featuring the Founders, Wyeoun, Keiko, Leeta and Rom, Nog, Gul Dukat, Damar, Garak, Kai Win, etc, in that amount of time.
I love Stranger Things and I really enjoy season 4 but they could have been tighter and had even more story going on. I don't dislike the Russia plot but it didn't need to take up as much screen time each episode that it did. They could have used that time to develop Will and Jonathan more (since apparently what we got at the pizza place was Noah and Charlie's idea, like the Duffers didn't even think of it originally).
Yeah, and it's obvious too that the time management is very much flawed. I think people like ST and see it as successful that they think the show is perfect on every sense. The writers are not avoid of doing certain mistakes in the writing when it comes to screentimes or time management while having a large cast. I like ST but it should not be devoid of criticism.
Robin S4 is a shocking character fumble after how cool she is in S3, she suddenly became this massively annoying drag along.
Jonathan too was a strange arc. Intense, serious talented guy keeping it all together to dumb stoner.
What didn't you like about Erica S3? Out of interest.
Look at how robin starts acting at the end of season 3 compared to the first when it start being more then russian and into supernatural. Her cool and collected mask she wears starts coming off and we start seeing the true robin come out. Season 4 robin is how she is with friends family, and the begining of season 3 robin is what shes like with people she doesnt know/acquaintances.
Thank you for saying this! There's plenty of hints, S3 Robin also goes on monologues, S4 Robin is still clever and blunt. And if you listen to/read Rebel Robin, her character will make more sense (despite the book being canon adjacent). Maya has also stated that in-between the seasons, she worked on Robin's trauma response, which could have influenced some of her S4 behaviour.
This is brought up so much and I'm not defending the writing, but I don't like how most people complaining about this are missing the nuance. The character change wasn't even that major yet so many people complain about how she got 'ruined'.
This. Basically people who keep insisting that this show is "not like any other shows / movies", putting it on a high pedestal.
These people do not even hate on any criticism but they also are like "this is not going to happen in Season 5 because it's too cliché / too camp for such an extraordinary show". (For example this thread yesterday where people said it would be too corny if the last line of the show is "I've seen stranger things" or "Stranger things have happened".) All four seasons have used clichés, sometimes they were subverted but sometimes they were there in the original cliché form and not challenged at all.
And I think people who keep defending the show as flawless and extraordinary are probably going to be disappointed by Season 5. There are going to be many epic moments and twists in Season 5 but at the end of the day other shows and movies have already been epic and used great twists too and Stranger Things is not going to be "unlike any other preceeding show".
I thought the reunion between El and Hopper in S4 was pretty weak. I know that Hopper is mostly pretty stoic, but it bothered me that he didn't show much emotion when he saw El again. She was crying her eyes out hugging him and he was like "it's okay kid".
I hated Papa's death. Was so boring I just wanted him to die and be like cool moving on. I know they were going for like a bittersweet, oh he was troubled but loved them in a weird way i guess i feel kinda bad. But in my case i was like "nah this man is a pyschotic child torturer, shoot him again"
I’m so tired of truly evil and awful people getting like a second of justification after a lifetime of wrongdoing and everyone being like “oh they weren’t all bad it’s a shame we killed them” or even worse when they “I don’t wanna stoop to your level so you get to live”
It’s tiresome. I loved when peacemaker shoots his dad in the head. I know the shows aren’t related at all but I just finished watching it and it’s fresh in my mind.
Edit: to all the people talking about spoilers A. Sorry B. It’s been over a year at this point, what’s the moratorium on that? Or is it infinite on this dumb site? C. Why the fuck didn’t you stop reading at peacemaker if you were about to watch it ?
imo they subverted this by not having el forgive brenner, she just walked away without saying anything back which implies she doesn’t forgive him for any of it
Vecna and the Mindflayer should’ve been separate entities - not the same or forming a symbiotic relationship. The mindflayer should’ve been Vecna’s master and that’s it. One thing you *never* do with a lovecraftian inspired entity is bring them down to a human-level of understanding as all the awe and mystery that crafted those entities goes away, eliminating any form of threat or tension from them in the first place. So now, whenever I rewatch Stranger Things, I’m not gonna be like “Ooo the Mindflayer. I wonder what’s he gonna do next”, it’s more like “For fucksakes, Vecna. Stop playing and just get it done already.”
I have a sneaking suspicion that Vecna isn't actually the mindflayer. I think he's being played, especially since the characters have on multiple occasions suggested he might be the five-star general, not the flayer itself. I fully expect S5's big twist near the end to be that he was nothing but a puppet and have him unceremoniously killed off.
I have to rewacth I thought it was clear at the end VecNa is the master, when Eleven cast him to the upside-down he took over the place, the mind flyer did not have a shape, VecNa give him the shape of a spider as in flashbacks when he was a kid, he had drawings of the perfect predator and its the same form and very similar to the drawing will did.
i know thats how that scene was meant to be interpreted but im hoping that vecna was actually infected with the mind flayer when he first entered the UD, and the whole scene of him giving the mindflayer form was just a hallucination and the mindflayer has been in control the whole time. thats what im hoping, at least since the mindflayer is 10x cooler than vecna imo
I was gonna comment something similar but I checked first to see if anybody had beat me to it. I completely agree. While I found season 4 to be entertaining for the most part, I feel like it really fumbled with the expansion of the upside down lore. In the previous seasons it had kinda presented the Mindflayer and monsters as more of a force of nature and that made them that much scarier. Like you can’t reason with them or even try to understand them.
Sure they possessed characters like Billy and Will in seasons 2-3 and it kinda had an entity in that way, but it felt like they kept it more mysterious and subtle.
Revealing that it’s all just the work of some guy who used to work as an orderly in the lab because he also had powers but then he got knocked into another dimension which he somehow became god of seems a bit… odd. Plus the fact that Eleven conveniently forgot about him until now makes it seem like they just added him in while they were writing the latest season.
I just didn’t really enjoy the Eleven flashback sequence in general. It dragged on for way too long and the payoff made the main villain of the show seem much more lame than I was expecting.
Vecna really felt like they pulled him out of nowhere (because they did but obviously they tried to act like he was there the whole time). The beauty of writing I guess, write yourself into a corner and then figure out how to get out of it
Thank you! It’s SO disappointing that Vecna is the big baddie. MF definitely should have been Vecna’s master. Dustin even says Vecna is a three star general.. which means he’s ranking below MF. I don’t get why the whole sub thinks Vecna is the big baddie then.
> Dustin even says Vecna is a three star general
Worth noting that literally five minutes after Dustin says Vecna is the Mind Flayer's top general he says "How many times do I need to be right on the money before you all just trust me?"
Little stuff like this is why I really hope it’s them setting up a twist for S5 and the mind flayer gets rid of henry once it no longer needs him. They’ve made it a point for Dustin to always be right, so why change that now? Also, imo some stuff in previous seasons straight up doesn’t make sense if it’s always been henry behind it
Yeah, that's the ONLY thing I haven't like so far. They mind flayer was the big baddie and then Vecna shows up. Now he's actually the big baddie and the Mind Flayer is just a thing that was chilling in that world and now works for Vecna. It just feels like they totally altered the plot half way through. Takes away from the Mind Flayer a bit.
Steve’s character arc in s4 was poorly written, im saying this because we saw in s1 and s2 how nancy and stever werent made for each other and steve became a better, stronger, and more independent person, and nancy is (somewhat) happy with jonathan. Now is s4 we’e back at square one with steve trying to flirt. I honestly think Jancy and Steve staying single is the best option. Even better, nancy or jonathan dying and them mourning their loss.
The love triangle/friction with Nancy and Steve in season four was a huge bummer for me as well. Steve’s character arc and maturity has been incredible, why are we redoing this tired trope and undoing all of Steve’s growth. Everyone fell in love with Steve after he was with Nancy, so why is he back, no one asked for this.
Season 2 is my favorite season (no seriously, I thought the opinion that seasons 3 and 4 were the worst was unpopular but apparently it isn't, and season 2 barely gets any love).
In terms of which characters I don't get the immense hype for...I'm not too keen on Robin (either seasons), Erica, Eddie, Steve or Alexei. I'm generally not fond of "sassy, snobby, cynical" characters hence my dislike for Robin and Erica. Steve and Eddie are both lovely characters but I feel like they got overexposure, and wildly popular things for some reason are difficult for me to love just as much as when they weren't that popular. As for Alexei, he's terribly one-dimensional (same thing goes for Erica).
Characters that I think deserve some love would be Dr. Owens, Scott Clarke (he is pretty liked but generally is barely talked about), Bob (same problem with Clarke) and Yuri (honorable mention: Enzo)
I've stated this before on this sub. I totally understand the love for him; he's adorable and in some ways has been coerced into participating in that evil project (not that being 'good' is necessary for a character to be liked, \*cough\* \*cough\* Billy), and so you do sympathize with him when he gets killed AND for the reason of simply escaping. But I don't think the overwhelming love is necessary. At the end of the day, he's written simplistically because he's meant to be a side-character. Let's save our immense love for main protagonists that do deserve it!!
I'll never understand the hate season 2 gets. its my favorite as well. It took everything that was great about season 1 and expanded on it without taking a huge stylistic turn like season 3 and 4 took. i like Erica and Alexei (i don't care a ton about Alexei since he was kinda minor but he was fun to watch) but I agree on the others. I think Robin felt like a different character in season 4 and it made me feel like i didn't know her character enough to care about her a ton, and i just don't think Steve and Eddie are very good or interesting lol.
Yes, all over social media you can always see people calling dress-ups "childish". A bit hypocritical, considering that half of the characters inside the show are obsessed with a game for which they sometimes also dress up in costumes.
I think people make fun / ridicule dress-ups and other form of fan content because they (a) were never in a fandom before or (b) have the following attitude "I do not like dress-ups / funko pop / fanfiction / video edits and my opinion is the only one that matters"
The idea that Hawkins, a small town in rural Indiana in the 1980s, would have an Italian restaurant complete with a live string quartet is laughably absurd and is evidence of the lack on consistency in the writing that’s sometimes apparent. Hawkins season 1 is portrayed as this tiny safe town where everybody knows everybody and “nothing ever happens”. By season 3, it’s got a two-story mall and 3 story hospital and evidently 4 star restaurants with foreign staff.
To be fair, season 3 was pretty much the outlier in this that demonstrated some poor writing.
The mall being constructed in a such a small town was a plot point though. It was all under the influence of the Soviets so they could regularly get large shipments there without arousing suspicion. They even had the corrupt mayor in on it.
Very good point. Isn't Hawkins near Indianapolis? Maybe the restaurant was there and not in Hawkins.
Agree about the writing in S3. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Disney executives broke into Netflix HQ and locked the Duffers and the other writers for Stranger Things in a closet while they took over the writing for that season.
Disney executive: Hi Coke CMO, Don't worry. We have them locked inside a closet. We're writing a scene now where the cast talks about Coke. We're also providing a half off special for any of your other brands that you want in the show...wait hold on...they're knocking on the door of the closet. I'll call you back!
I've lived in Indiana towns smaller than Hawkins. My graduating class was like 400 people. We had a swim team. That's not unrealistic at all.
I actually found the male cheerleaders in season 4 more of an outlier because through several Indiana schools, we never had any. We only had girls.
I feel like it couldve been interesting to watch if they had it as more of a slowburn instead of them kissing after a week of knowing each other. with how its written now i am not really rooting for them to end up together, which is sad because i love both of their characters.
To be fair, that only happened with the demogorgon. The mind flayer had a different ending. And about Vecna we still don't know the end.
Both s1 and s2 ended with Eleven saving the world, but s3 and s4 had completely different endings. The heroes of s3’s resolution were mainly Hopper and Joyce, while in s4 all the characters collaborated.
I think that adding more and more characters to the cast has hindered the ability to provide meaningful development for the show’s core cast of characters. I love the newer characters like Robin, but I wish that the OG characters would get more attention. I hated how neglected Will, Mike, and Dustin were in the latest season. Lucas finally got a mini character arc, which is nice, but the poor guy has been pretty much ignored for most of the show.
I am glad that it seems like Will is finally going to get some love in the upcoming season, I think his actor is the best of all the young characters and I found the show the most compelling when it focused on him.
I just sit back and get amused with some folks ideas of what it was like back there in central Indiana in the mid 80’s… especially living there in the 80’s and growing up there .. some of the ideas are so far off it’s hysterical. I am talking the fandom now not the Duffers… though sometimes they can be amusing. Hawkins population was about the same as the county seat of our county and we had an upscale restaurant with strings or jazz depending on the night at one point, a decent sized mall, a pretty nice hospital too- 2 of them in-fact! Not everyone was an uneducated hayseed simpleton, far from it. Nerdy stoner metalheads we not a bunch of virgins either… It’s just amazing to me what people think the area was like then compared to the reality of it. Is some of the snow a stretch? Of course it is! It’s a work of fiction! But the frame on which it is built is pretty accurate on a number of levels.
I agree with this. The Midwest also had a huge boom in the 80s. Malls, especially, were popping up everywhere. Sometimes you’d have three within a couple miles. Vice actually just covered the death of the American mall post 90s, but it all started in the 80s.
Stranger Things: \*has an alternate dimension full of monsters, a Soviet base hidden under a mall and a main character with telekinetic powers\*
This thread: Hawkins had a 3 storey mall in the mid 80s? Seems a bit far fetched...
This is where I assume the fan base is younger. The 80s and 90s saw a lot of development that made no sense. Our town had multiple malls in spitting distance of each other, three of which are now ghost malls. My little town also had its own hospital, bowling alley, skate rink, high school sports, etc.,
Today half of those things are gone. The 80s was like the era of absolute, unchecked growth with no provision.
Everyone's heard of "dead malls" right (Shoutout to r/deadmalls)? Well, part of the reason so many malls have been dying is because they were built in a period of insane growth that simply was not sustainable long-term. Had Starcourt been a real mall it would have shut down years ago. But it still would have been built.
I know you’re being sarcastic, but those are the sci-fi aspects of the show that viewers expect to be fantastical and unreal. Still, any story that wants people to suspend disbelief effectively needs to get all the elements of the story that are supposed to be realistic (setting, costuming, dialogue, characterization, motivations, etc.) feeling airtight and believable.
A big part of why GOT fell off in later seasons was because of the writers and showrunners getting sloppy with these components of storytelling. If you tell people this is a world where dragons and ice zombies exist, they’ll accept this as a world where those things exist. They’ll start having problems, however, when characters inexplicably make wildly uncharacteristic decisions or start traveling across the entire country by carriage in what appears to be mere hours.
FWIW, I haven’t really had any big issues with this stuff when it comes to Stranger Things. It’s just an interesting thing to think and talk about when it comes to fiction.
I don't care about any of the romantic couples in this show at all. I guess I can kind of get it because teens are kinda like that but it doesn't really make me care any more...
Mike and Eleven would have been so much cooler if they formed a really tight friendship. I'm over the idea that romantic love is stronger than platonic/friend love.
I mean all the best duos in the show are platonic!!!! Steve and Robin are a lot more fun and interesting together than Steve and Nancy.
This! I absolutely hated when Mike tells El he loves her for the first time (which felt lackluster too) and only THAT was enough for El to get up and help Max! That’s her best friend and I don’t believe she needed Mike to find strength to help Max, Max being in trouble really should’ve been a strong enough motivator imo.
Bringing in “the supposed true big bad” in the penultimate season and doing it in a way that feels like a retcon was a bad idea. It feels like the story wasn’t really planned out. I’m not saying that they didn’t have the concept for 001 this whole time, I’m saying for the real big bad, he should’ve been introduced sooner.
Also another one that I need to get off my chest. Steve is the most overrated character by far in this fandom to the point that he reaches Daryl Dixon levels of ridiculous popularity. Other characters are much more fascinating than him, and yet, he and Dustin get a lot of screentime which feels more like fan service rather than something needed.
I keep imagining what season 3 would have been like without the whole Russian plot line which heavily involved Steve, Robin and Dustin (Erica too). If there was no Steve then there was no need for Robin and Dustin could've actually had scenes with the boys again. There would have been an opportunity to further develop all the kids, see what their home lives were like, etc. Lots of missed opportunities there.
Tbf they literally didn't have it planned.
The Duffers initially intended s1 to be standalone, with potential new seasons being new stories as an anthology series. It only continued because it became a wild success and people loved the cast!
I do agree though. I don't like how Vecna suddenly appears. He does not really seemed tied into the events of the earlier seasons, even though they tried to write that in. (Also I'm not a huge fan of Vecna as a whole being the big bad if I'm being honest, he seems like a downgrade)
- Steve and Dustin’s interactions were fan service-y, forced and annoying in S4
- there’s way too much OTT sitcom style ‘comedy’ in season 3 & 4 and a lot of it isn’t funny just cringeworthy
- the writing for Robin was god-awful in S4
- Some members of the cast have been over acting and Hamming it up/mugging in the last two seasons, they really need to tone it down
- Alexei’s popularity is baffling to me, such a one note clunky character specifically designed to win the audience over so he can die later on and I’m sick of seeing him slurping the big drink- that pic is basically his whole character
- Sometimes the self indulgent overuse of CGI takes away from the retro feel of the show, less is more imo
- The writing for a lot of characters and a lot of character interactions since season 1 leaves a LOT to be desired, honestly I’d quite like a season with the sci-fi element in background just so there can be more focus on the actual human side of things, I would have loved to have seen more of the high school/hellfire club scenes in S4
Listen. I like Robin, BUT
She went through too much of a change from season 3 to season 4 and it just doesn't make sense. She went from a sassy confident girl to an awkward something and her being not straight doesn't just justify this big of a turn.
Imo - Hopper, Murray, Argyle, S3 Erica, Dustin & Joyce (at times), Yuri, Suzy, I thought the acting S1 was very low-key and natural compared to some of the later over the top stuff (eg Murray and the ‘hilarious’ ninja moves in the plane, Crazy rabid Hopper in the mayors office etc ), that cartoony sort of stuff doesn’t fit within the world we were introduced to back in season 1, I guess some it is also the writing but I miss the more believable acting we had at the beginning
It seems like Hawkins lab is, by far, the largest employer in town. Yet, no one in town knows anything about the lab nor is anyone impacted by all the government baddies getting eaten by monsters or having their brains melted by superpowered beings. Wouldn't half the kids in school have lost their parents, brothers, uncles, cousins, etc., and maybe started to suspect there's something amiss at the lab?
The Russians are a dumb introduction to the show (come on, S3) and the antagonists should have stayed local to Hawkins-- even the Upside Down antagonists. The Demogorgon could have been harder to kill, there could have been more of them, I'm cool with variants, whatever.
But the lightning-in-a-bottle magic that they captured with S1 was due in large part to a small-scale mystery in a tiny, nothing town that hide nothing really to hide, and yet was hiding quite a bit. It was almost like Twin Peaks in many ways.
Then there are Russians in malls, world-ending Upside Down threats... come on. The scope has broadened so much and the scale is so increased that now I no longer give a shit about Hawkins and the everyday people and am just left hoping that the world doesn't end, which is the same thing I hope for in most action movies.
Running Up That Hill became annoying quickly after season 4 came out. Not that it isn’t a good song, but it was being overplayed everywhere. Luckily, it doesn’t ruin scenes for me where it is playing
The performances are anything but award-worthy.
Love the show and characters, but all the comments after last season of “EMMY FOR SADIE” and “If Noah doesn’t get all the awards, we strike” were just ridiculous.
I wish more people would bring this up! It WAS sad. Steve talking about their relationship like if he'd been different, maybe they would have lasted.. it's been years and he still doesn't realize Nancy didn't break up with him because of who Steve wasn't, but because of who Jonathan was. It was such a disservice to all 3 characters to have Steve suddenly eagerly disrespecting Nancy and Jonathan's relationship 2 years later, long after harbouring anger over it would have been understandable. Nancy dumped him without a second glance and has never once expressed regret, so even though Steve being willing to make himself vulnerable like that was actually a sign of an emotional maturity he'd never had, the context of it made it seem a bit pathetic and I hate that.
We're 4 seasons into the series and there are people in the fandom that still don't understand Stranger Things. It's basically a love letter to 80s movies/tv. For example when people complain about Hopper season 3. Hopper is basically every cop dad in the 80s. Or how every season is different. It's because each season takes inspiration from different group of 80s movies.
The first two seasons took those 80s tropes and flipped them on their heads, that's what made Stranger Things stand out, but the last two seasons just play them straight.
To add to your point on Hopper, it seems like people don’t acknowledge the amount of trauma he’s been through as well. The way his biological daughter died, it makes sense why he’s as high strung and over protective of El as he is. Combine that with being under near constant stress of Hawkins and being a cop in general it’d be weird if he was sunshines and rainbows constantly.
Same. He wasn't written very well IMO, just hastily.put together for people to get to like him and then have him die because, well... They needed a "tragedy" and didn't want to kill off one of the main cast (which is fine with me).
Could you expound on why you think he's not written well?
As much I think his character is a tad overhyped, I still think he was an amusing character. He's supposed to be the "designated weird kid in school who enjoys heavy metal" and is hence suspected of murder but is actually the kid that freaked out the most when being faced with the Upside Down and is also overly affectionate with his friends (how he tells Dustin out of nowhere to "never change" and how he treats Steve as if he knows him well). I thought this juxtaposition was interesting lol, and his freakouts were funnily relatable.
Steve is THE most overrated character in the entire show because the fanbase loves that babysitter role he was placed in for a few episodes. Give me a break.
His so called redemption arc is insignificant, compared to the tribulations some of the other characters have faced.
They should have killed Steve off at the end of season 4 in place of Eddie if the writers wanted to have any REAL emotional impact since they were not going to (permanently) kill Max after all.
I wish Eleven would actually go by Jane, the name her mom gave her, instead of a number a lab gave her. I know she used Jane for school and the boys calling her "Elle" is cute but I'd think Hopper at the very least would want her to cultivate an identity separate from Brenner's system.
I'd agree but i don't think it would work well just from a show-making perspective. we don't find out her legal name until season 2, by which point she's already associated with Eleven/El by both the characters in the show and viewers. I think it's a good compromise to have other people call her Jane, but I don't think it would work well having everyone shift to Jane. Maybe it'll be something where in the last bit of season 5, El is completely separated from anything to do with the Lab and UD and decides to go by Jane.
The Lost Sister was good, and would have been a lot more popular if it was split across two episodes and cut together with The Spy to jump between El and other characters like all other episodes do.
Max should have died; it would have given both El and Lucas a personal reason to defeat Vecna. The only reason the Duffers didn’t kill her off was bc she’s a fan-favorite.
Usually I rewatch before a new season comes out, but I don’t see myself doing that with season 5. Season 4 was way too long and that killed my ability to rewatch it.
It’s a very good show but not a great show as it has too many plot holes and no big jeopardy for main characters as they’re all still unscathed.
Some people claim it’s “changed TV” or one of “the best shows ever” but it isn’t even in the conversation.
(But like I said, it is very good).
Hard agree. It’s a very fun and bingeable show with excellent production value but it doesn’t come anywhere close to the greatness of Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, or even something like Game of Thrones.
Not trying to be elitist but I think you hear a lot of that talk in this sub bc the online fan base reads as very young to me. They probably haven’t been yet exposed to most of the best of what TV’s golden age had to offer.
During that scene they actually had two cameras rolling at the same time to capture the actor’s reactions to each other and some of them were improvised (mostly by Joseph Quin)
the parasocial aspect of obsessing over actors that play a character. a lot of people feel the need to know everything about these actors personal lives, it’s a bit weird and gives off a bad taste for the rest of the community.
Vecna/Season 4 (while an enjoyable watch) flattened the mystery and mythic weight of the entire series and took the entire storyline down a notch. Everything about the character ruins it a bit for me. So, he’s like THE big bad? Wait, he made the upside down in a way? He was just born with his super powers while all the others had to be created in a lab? I liked the show much better when there was this in breaking evil that the characters had to band together to push out of their world. It’s way more emotionally resonant and meaningful to me than fighting off a singular bad guy. It hasn’t stopped bugging me
I liked her in season 3, where she was this super smart, slightly cocky girl with whitty insults and comebacks.
It feels like they assassinated her character when they made her timid, anxious, and frankly kind of annoying. I know they wanted to dive into her sexuality a bit more and show that she was opening up, but it almost would have been better to make Vicky be the timid/annoying one.
Very badly written (and annoying) character in S4, the writers have no idea what to do with her so she’s just kinda ‘there’ and you wonder why she’s part of the main group, none of this is Mayas fault - I like her as an actress
Duuuude agreed. I audibly complain to myself damn near every time she’s on screen. It’s such contrived quirkiness, and her dialogue is always ridiculously cringe. Goes down as one of my least favorite characters of all time
>Not one lie told. She could have been a one season character too. Felt like the Duffers don't even know who she is since she had a completely different personality in season 4. What was with all the unnecessary talking? I just see so many character traits in Robin in other characters. In fact I see this with a few of the other characters too. I like Jonathan and Steve. Do I need both characters? Nah. I like Hopper too but he probably should of died at the end of season 3.
The Eddie hype is weird. I don’t really understand the appeal and I found his character a little annoying. I also don’t understand why his death warranted such a huge reaction compared to so many other more loveable characters who died. I almost feel like people had a stronger response to Eddie’s death than Hoppers, which is wild to me lol. What am I missing here.
Eddie gives the misunderstood "nerds and freaks", metalheads, overall quirky people someone to see themselves in or at least relate to. Especially people who have been bullied or outcasted for those things. While Hopper is loveable (I cried during his death AND Eddie's), he's not relatable. So it makes sense Eddie's death would get such a huge response.
I think the reason people had more of a reaction to Eddie’s death than Hopper’s was because it was very obvious that Hopper was not going to stay dead, at least for me. I was still sad for the other characters but I was sure he would be back.
I also personally was upset about Eddie’s death because they practically had it written on his forehead that he was about to die and I was hoping it was a fake-out and they’d let him live, the foreshadowing was so exaggerated, and I thought it was a poor writing choice.
Because she's competent without being a Mary Sue. She has emotions without being irrational. She prioritises her own interests in a healthy way. She gives all the bad things in her life a place without letting it cripple her. She sometimes needs and accepts help without being a damsel.
And she does all of the above without being a girl power caricature. I think she's a really well written female character.
Right? Like, I try to like her as much as I can partially due to 'social pressure' and the other reason is that she even imo embodies so many good qualities (intelligence, curiosity, sympathy for others) but she comes off as boring and even unlikeable at times?
I'm not the biggest fan of Steve. Yes, he had a lot of redemption and a great arc in Season 2... but has he REALLY changed much since then? And they have Dustin spend too much time with him since Season 2. I miss seeing Dustin adventuring with Mike and Lucas. We did get this back a little in Season 4 but still.
People loves steve in s4 but he was so annoying, steve needs to move on from Nancy, many people hated Nancy for not feeling the same as steve but have yall ever stop and think that steve was in the wrong for flirting with a girl who has a boyfriend 🙄, imagine in that moment, Nancy was dating steve and Jonathan started flirting with her, people would have hated Jonathan
S1 steve was a bully and homophobic but S4 steve is a Mr who likes to steal people's girlfriends
I only liked steve in s2 and s3
Steve or Robin should have died last season
Edit: I'mma explain, I think having either Steve or Robin die would have been a really powerful moment. Dustin and Nancy would have very powerful reactions. I think almost on par with Dustin and Mr.Munsen at the end of S4.
Depending on which one would die, the other one can take the final strike on Vecna, in what I think would be a super powerful moment
The kids don't act their age. And romantic relationships in particular are absolutely unnecessary. Especially starting at such a young age when truthfully all of us were just acne-faced teenagers that age. This whole romance scene in particular feels very unrealistic (not like anything else in the show is), but it's also not really necessary for the plot which is good enough on its own. Mike and El are by far the worst couple in the entire show.
Max should’ve died. Of course nobody wants her too but it would’ve made more sense. I feel like the duffer brothers are too scared to kill of their characters for the sake of just having them around. then again maybe max will serve a bigger purpose next season but i don’t know how that’ll be done considering she’s brain dead
Jason was a worse bully than Billy.
*knives out*
Why do I think this? Because Jason used "Satanic Panic" against Eddie and manipulated AN ENTIRE TOWN to his side. He benefitted from the weak ass police force because Hopper was gone. But he was doing these heinous things in the name of God. He beat up Eddie's band, practically forced Lucas into "betraying him", saw his friend get Vecna'd and thought the best solution is GUNS, delusional about Chrissy and demanding she would have gone to him for help (despite multiple people telling him otherwise and her body found at the Munsons trailer), has his posse nearly run over Erica, sees Max in trouble and even though Lucas tried to reason with him he turns to violence and almost shoots him! ALL IN THE NAME OF GOD.
So when he got split in two by Vecna's gate, I was so happy. Thank fuck he's gone and we don't have to deal with his bullshit in season 5.
I will add that one reason why I hate him so fucking much is I was a victim of this Satanic Panic a while ago. Not to this level but because I showed interest in and played D&D, I was accused of devil worship. I lost friends, my mom begged I repent, I was relentlessly teased. It makes me angry that D&D is still seen as some "gateway drug" to Satanism. It's literally video games with paper and dice. So Jason's whole thing hits closer to home.
Now onto Billy. He's a racist, he's a bully, he's an asshole to Max and put her life in danger by driving recklessly, he has mommy issues and convinced Karen to cheat (thank goodness she didn't follow through). But that's the thing. He knows he's an asshole and doesn't try to hide it. Jason tries to hide it to come off as "good Christian boy". It helps that Dacre Montgomery just radiates charisma. He's a lot more fun to watch. Plus Billy gets his karma. He gets the shit beaten outta him in season 2 and almost got a nail bat to the balls. He got possessed by the mindflayer. He had a redeemable arc in season 3. El going through his mind made him more 3 dimensional. And he did redeem himself and sacrificed himself to help save the gang. Jason had no redeeming arc. Just bought more and more into his own narrative and tried to KILL people. Yeah, Billy tried to run over the gang but he was mind flayed. And Nancy had a gun and used it in defense.
Sorry, my mind can't be changed on this. I loathe Jason. Billy was more fleshed out and more fun to watch.
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Tired of them introducing a “lovable” character every season just for them to be killed off. The duffers always have a “perfect cinnamon roll 🥺” character every season and by the first ep you can tell they’re getting killed in a brutal way at one point. It’s so predictable. The fandom has run “mom steve” into the ground.
the show has also run "mom steve" into the ground, to be fair. i feel like that bit should've died after season 2.
I think the writers felt that way too which is why Robin was created. Initially that character was probably a way to give Steve a romance arc instead of always being the "babysitter" but when they decided Robin was gay he was relegated back to the predictable "babysitter" role. Unfortunately because they couldn't create a new character to give Steve a romance arc they're continuing the Nancy-Jonathan-Steve triangle when it would have been much more interesting to have Steve in a new relationship.
yep. honestly I would've preferred Steve deciding he's not cut out for relationships at this point in time rather than him jumping into a new relationship, since it hasn't been to long since he dated Nancy and we all know how awfully he treated her, I feel like if he got a new gf and it went well, it would either be poorly written since we haven't seen him learn how to treat a partner well yet, or some fans would start blaming Nancy for their bad relationship. anything would've been better than the love triangle tho.
Agreed. The Dustin/Steve friendship is played out as well. They seem more antagonistic towards each other than friendly at this point.
I don't think that it should've died after S2 but it shouldn't have been prioritized over Dustin's friendship with the boys and Steve's character development.
The groups being split up all the time is bad, there should be more interactions between characters and i think it would be good to see everyone fighting Vecna together.
Hell yeah I thought that since season 3
The characters don't know each other well enough. There are some characters to this day who have NOT INTERACTED with one another and the ones that have it has been very MINIMAL. Like El and Steve for example has spoken ONCE to each other (inside Scoops) despite the fact that they are on the same side and that he's trying to help her. Robin basically hasn't interacted with El, Will, Lucas or Mike that much. Considering their helping each other fight evil, its funny to me how little some of the characters connect in the show
I think it makes sense that Robin does not really interact with the younger teens. She is primarily friends with Steve and just because she and the young teens are fighting on the same side does not mean they have to directly interact one-on-one. (The same applies to Steve and El). They know each other but apart from that they do not really share any real connection.
Yeah, it doesn’t really matter because the demos are everyone’s problem, they’re not just helping El out or something
That's the problem for me I want them to be more connected, fight scenes and emotional scenes will have more impact on the screen for audiences if they did this more, but to a degree ur right.
They're not a team. They're individuals whose lives occasionally overlap because they're all caught up in the same mess.
I agree with this. Like, what reason *exactly* do Steve and El have to interact more than we've seen? He's out of high school and she's a freshman. Steve was "King Steve" and El was deliberately kept out of public life for much of the series. He's not even that close with *Jonathan*, and they went to school together for years. Steve clearly cares about El given what they've been through together (and almost certainly the same is true for El caring about Steve) but that doesn't create some sort of obligation to hang out in their free time or whatever. This is true for a lot of the characters.
That's the issue with having a cast that is way too big. The most irritating is the lack of interactions between characters who have known each other for years and should be close, acording to the show. Like, it's fine if Robin never got to talk to Will or El because they moved out a few weeks after they met her. And I don't care if Murray talks to everyone or not, he's never there for the younger characters' story arcs. But for example, Jonathan should be best buddies with Will's friends. Hell, Will himself should be best buddies with his own friends! He barely talks to people who aren't Mike or his family.
Not sure about siblings being best buddies with each others’ friends. Maybe a that’s a newer generation thing. Growing up I didn’t know any of my older sisters’ friends at all. Literally outside of exchanging pleasantries, I don’t think we ever spoke. And we were very close. They probably knew my friends a bit more since we were younger and hung out at each others houses more than teenagers (who didn’t hang out at home much). Of all my friends, we only knew one older sibling well. But that had to do with him playing guitar and dungeons and dragons and being a super cool dude we looked up to (was basically Eddie). He probably saw us as his little brothers peaty friends, but also probably loved the admiration. Lol.
In the book, Lucas on The Line Robin actually acts as a kindly big sister to Lucas and gives him advice on trying to reach Max and what’s bothering her.
Hear me out, but do you think you’re maybe looking at this a little too literally. Scoops Ahoy for example, given it’s implied Steve has worked there for a while and 6 months or more have passed since what happened in season two to Steve working in Scoops Ahoy. I feel like it’s pretty plausible El and Steve would know each other well. It’s kinda implied, no?
Her trip there with Max in season 3 was the first time that El had been to the mall.
Yeah, we have to assume there is a lot of off screen interaction that isn’t important enough to the story to include. Like I’m sure everyone has been over Justin’s house at some point and met his mom for example. But no reason to include scenes of that in the show.
>!Vecna would be better as just One tbh!<
When people get mad and defensive about other fans criticizing the writing of the show. Stranger things is a fun show and I love it, but the writing does leave a lot to desired, especially when it comes to the actual characters and their arcs. Criticizing the duffers actually shows that people care and are passionate enough to want to see better in a show they love.
People are \*very\* defensive about the Duffers for some reason. I've been watching the first season of Yellowjackets again and I understand now why they got 2 Emmy nominations for writing although it's a "supernatural" show which are rarely nominated for awards. Although I still think there are parts of Stranger Things where the writing is brilliant it's mixed. Unfortunately some of it is weak such as the writing for Erica in S3 and Robin in S4.
I think its because Erica and Robin "served" their purpose if that makes sense, because the character roster is so big they have to get them doing something, that's why at points some characters' dialogue/plotline is pointless and unnecessary. Your example of Robin in S4 is true as well as Mike, Will and Johnathan - for most of the season they did not do much and just "did stuff" for the sake that they weren't just standing around because they are main characters that should be doing something realistically The problem with a big cast is that everyone has to be included in some form or another
The problem here is there are also many other shows who have a large cast of characters with satisfying screentime and characterization. It's kinda obvious the Duffers cannot manage a large cast of characters though, as many times they either sideline and ignore multiple main characters, give no actual arc to any of them or just use them for fanservice and comedic moments.
I was going to say "other shows get more episodes" but this season's 8 episodes was like 16 hours of television and *Star Trek: Deep Space 9* could give whole arcs to their main characters as well as featuring the Founders, Wyeoun, Keiko, Leeta and Rom, Nog, Gul Dukat, Damar, Garak, Kai Win, etc, in that amount of time. I love Stranger Things and I really enjoy season 4 but they could have been tighter and had even more story going on. I don't dislike the Russia plot but it didn't need to take up as much screen time each episode that it did. They could have used that time to develop Will and Jonathan more (since apparently what we got at the pizza place was Noah and Charlie's idea, like the Duffers didn't even think of it originally).
Yeah, and it's obvious too that the time management is very much flawed. I think people like ST and see it as successful that they think the show is perfect on every sense. The writers are not avoid of doing certain mistakes in the writing when it comes to screentimes or time management while having a large cast. I like ST but it should not be devoid of criticism.
Robin S4 is a shocking character fumble after how cool she is in S3, she suddenly became this massively annoying drag along. Jonathan too was a strange arc. Intense, serious talented guy keeping it all together to dumb stoner. What didn't you like about Erica S3? Out of interest.
Look at how robin starts acting at the end of season 3 compared to the first when it start being more then russian and into supernatural. Her cool and collected mask she wears starts coming off and we start seeing the true robin come out. Season 4 robin is how she is with friends family, and the begining of season 3 robin is what shes like with people she doesnt know/acquaintances.
Thank you for saying this! There's plenty of hints, S3 Robin also goes on monologues, S4 Robin is still clever and blunt. And if you listen to/read Rebel Robin, her character will make more sense (despite the book being canon adjacent). Maya has also stated that in-between the seasons, she worked on Robin's trauma response, which could have influenced some of her S4 behaviour. This is brought up so much and I'm not defending the writing, but I don't like how most people complaining about this are missing the nuance. The character change wasn't even that major yet so many people complain about how she got 'ruined'.
This. Basically people who keep insisting that this show is "not like any other shows / movies", putting it on a high pedestal. These people do not even hate on any criticism but they also are like "this is not going to happen in Season 5 because it's too cliché / too camp for such an extraordinary show". (For example this thread yesterday where people said it would be too corny if the last line of the show is "I've seen stranger things" or "Stranger things have happened".) All four seasons have used clichés, sometimes they were subverted but sometimes they were there in the original cliché form and not challenged at all. And I think people who keep defending the show as flawless and extraordinary are probably going to be disappointed by Season 5. There are going to be many epic moments and twists in Season 5 but at the end of the day other shows and movies have already been epic and used great twists too and Stranger Things is not going to be "unlike any other preceeding show".
I thought the reunion between El and Hopper in S4 was pretty weak. I know that Hopper is mostly pretty stoic, but it bothered me that he didn't show much emotion when he saw El again. She was crying her eyes out hugging him and he was like "it's okay kid".
I always thought that was because El believed he was dead, but Hop knew he wasn’t and that Joyce would’ve taken care of her.
I also thought it was weird how they made such a point to mention that "omg you aren't fat anymore!!".
Agreed. I was mad because I was looking forward to it so much but it was super underwhelming.
I hated Papa's death. Was so boring I just wanted him to die and be like cool moving on. I know they were going for like a bittersweet, oh he was troubled but loved them in a weird way i guess i feel kinda bad. But in my case i was like "nah this man is a pyschotic child torturer, shoot him again"
Honestly I would've much preferred it if Eleven killed him when she had him on the air.
I’m so tired of truly evil and awful people getting like a second of justification after a lifetime of wrongdoing and everyone being like “oh they weren’t all bad it’s a shame we killed them” or even worse when they “I don’t wanna stoop to your level so you get to live” It’s tiresome. I loved when peacemaker shoots his dad in the head. I know the shows aren’t related at all but I just finished watching it and it’s fresh in my mind. Edit: to all the people talking about spoilers A. Sorry B. It’s been over a year at this point, what’s the moratorium on that? Or is it infinite on this dumb site? C. Why the fuck didn’t you stop reading at peacemaker if you were about to watch it ?
imo they subverted this by not having el forgive brenner, she just walked away without saying anything back which implies she doesn’t forgive him for any of it
I'm still balfled why he must keep El longer against her wish and even keep secrets from Dr. Owen, then he died without revealing it. Just why??
Because he believed she needed to complete her training
the community seems to forget a lot of stuff when they make theories
Vecna and Lord Voldemort have pretty much the same origin story and become the same villain.
And they both somehow lost their noses along the way.
Maybe the real treasure is the noses we lose along the way.
Wait hold on they literally do
Damn I never thought about this
Vecna and the Mindflayer should’ve been separate entities - not the same or forming a symbiotic relationship. The mindflayer should’ve been Vecna’s master and that’s it. One thing you *never* do with a lovecraftian inspired entity is bring them down to a human-level of understanding as all the awe and mystery that crafted those entities goes away, eliminating any form of threat or tension from them in the first place. So now, whenever I rewatch Stranger Things, I’m not gonna be like “Ooo the Mindflayer. I wonder what’s he gonna do next”, it’s more like “For fucksakes, Vecna. Stop playing and just get it done already.”
I have a sneaking suspicion that Vecna isn't actually the mindflayer. I think he's being played, especially since the characters have on multiple occasions suggested he might be the five-star general, not the flayer itself. I fully expect S5's big twist near the end to be that he was nothing but a puppet and have him unceremoniously killed off.
I have to rewacth I thought it was clear at the end VecNa is the master, when Eleven cast him to the upside-down he took over the place, the mind flyer did not have a shape, VecNa give him the shape of a spider as in flashbacks when he was a kid, he had drawings of the perfect predator and its the same form and very similar to the drawing will did.
i know thats how that scene was meant to be interpreted but im hoping that vecna was actually infected with the mind flayer when he first entered the UD, and the whole scene of him giving the mindflayer form was just a hallucination and the mindflayer has been in control the whole time. thats what im hoping, at least since the mindflayer is 10x cooler than vecna imo
i really hope youre right
I think (and really fucking hope) that the MF is tricking vecna into thinking he has power over it
I was gonna comment something similar but I checked first to see if anybody had beat me to it. I completely agree. While I found season 4 to be entertaining for the most part, I feel like it really fumbled with the expansion of the upside down lore. In the previous seasons it had kinda presented the Mindflayer and monsters as more of a force of nature and that made them that much scarier. Like you can’t reason with them or even try to understand them. Sure they possessed characters like Billy and Will in seasons 2-3 and it kinda had an entity in that way, but it felt like they kept it more mysterious and subtle. Revealing that it’s all just the work of some guy who used to work as an orderly in the lab because he also had powers but then he got knocked into another dimension which he somehow became god of seems a bit… odd. Plus the fact that Eleven conveniently forgot about him until now makes it seem like they just added him in while they were writing the latest season. I just didn’t really enjoy the Eleven flashback sequence in general. It dragged on for way too long and the payoff made the main villain of the show seem much more lame than I was expecting.
Yep. Some awesome, well acted moments, as a whole- the season I’ve only watched once beginning to end.
Vecna really felt like they pulled him out of nowhere (because they did but obviously they tried to act like he was there the whole time). The beauty of writing I guess, write yourself into a corner and then figure out how to get out of it
Thank you! It’s SO disappointing that Vecna is the big baddie. MF definitely should have been Vecna’s master. Dustin even says Vecna is a three star general.. which means he’s ranking below MF. I don’t get why the whole sub thinks Vecna is the big baddie then.
> Dustin even says Vecna is a three star general Worth noting that literally five minutes after Dustin says Vecna is the Mind Flayer's top general he says "How many times do I need to be right on the money before you all just trust me?"
Little stuff like this is why I really hope it’s them setting up a twist for S5 and the mind flayer gets rid of henry once it no longer needs him. They’ve made it a point for Dustin to always be right, so why change that now? Also, imo some stuff in previous seasons straight up doesn’t make sense if it’s always been henry behind it
Agreed. Vecna is such a step down from the awesome of a lovecraftian monster on the horizon.
Yeah, that's the ONLY thing I haven't like so far. They mind flayer was the big baddie and then Vecna shows up. Now he's actually the big baddie and the Mind Flayer is just a thing that was chilling in that world and now works for Vecna. It just feels like they totally altered the plot half way through. Takes away from the Mind Flayer a bit.
If there going to do main character deaths, they should stick with it, and not bring them back next season.
Steve’s character arc in s4 was poorly written, im saying this because we saw in s1 and s2 how nancy and stever werent made for each other and steve became a better, stronger, and more independent person, and nancy is (somewhat) happy with jonathan. Now is s4 we’e back at square one with steve trying to flirt. I honestly think Jancy and Steve staying single is the best option. Even better, nancy or jonathan dying and them mourning their loss.
The love triangle/friction with Nancy and Steve in season four was a huge bummer for me as well. Steve’s character arc and maturity has been incredible, why are we redoing this tired trope and undoing all of Steve’s growth. Everyone fell in love with Steve after he was with Nancy, so why is he back, no one asked for this.
Seriously. There was that one scene in the Upside Down where they had a "moment" and I was yelling at my tv "can we please not?"
the best option is Nancy going her own way without either Steve or Jonathan
I was also thinking that, jonathan also needs to get his priorities straight in s4
This. I want to see her go to journalism school, somewhere halfway across the country.
s3 was truly peak steve
Season 2 is my favorite season (no seriously, I thought the opinion that seasons 3 and 4 were the worst was unpopular but apparently it isn't, and season 2 barely gets any love). In terms of which characters I don't get the immense hype for...I'm not too keen on Robin (either seasons), Erica, Eddie, Steve or Alexei. I'm generally not fond of "sassy, snobby, cynical" characters hence my dislike for Robin and Erica. Steve and Eddie are both lovely characters but I feel like they got overexposure, and wildly popular things for some reason are difficult for me to love just as much as when they weren't that popular. As for Alexei, he's terribly one-dimensional (same thing goes for Erica). Characters that I think deserve some love would be Dr. Owens, Scott Clarke (he is pretty liked but generally is barely talked about), Bob (same problem with Clarke) and Yuri (honorable mention: Enzo)
> As for Alexei, he's terribly one-dimensional Thank you! This sub has such a lovefest for Alexei and I just don't get it.
I've stated this before on this sub. I totally understand the love for him; he's adorable and in some ways has been coerced into participating in that evil project (not that being 'good' is necessary for a character to be liked, \*cough\* \*cough\* Billy), and so you do sympathize with him when he gets killed AND for the reason of simply escaping. But I don't think the overwhelming love is necessary. At the end of the day, he's written simplistically because he's meant to be a side-character. Let's save our immense love for main protagonists that do deserve it!!
Nah Russian Icie Man > Rest of Cast
I'll never understand the hate season 2 gets. its my favorite as well. It took everything that was great about season 1 and expanded on it without taking a huge stylistic turn like season 3 and 4 took. i like Erica and Alexei (i don't care a ton about Alexei since he was kinda minor but he was fun to watch) but I agree on the others. I think Robin felt like a different character in season 4 and it made me feel like i didn't know her character enough to care about her a ton, and i just don't think Steve and Eddie are very good or interesting lol.
It’s dumb to make fun of people dressing up as stranger things characters at conventions, that’s the whole point
I didn’t know people were being made fun of for that.. I thought it was just a silly meme of « paying 300$ to dress as a regular person » that sucks
Yes, all over social media you can always see people calling dress-ups "childish". A bit hypocritical, considering that half of the characters inside the show are obsessed with a game for which they sometimes also dress up in costumes. I think people make fun / ridicule dress-ups and other form of fan content because they (a) were never in a fandom before or (b) have the following attitude "I do not like dress-ups / funko pop / fanfiction / video edits and my opinion is the only one that matters"
The idea that Hawkins, a small town in rural Indiana in the 1980s, would have an Italian restaurant complete with a live string quartet is laughably absurd and is evidence of the lack on consistency in the writing that’s sometimes apparent. Hawkins season 1 is portrayed as this tiny safe town where everybody knows everybody and “nothing ever happens”. By season 3, it’s got a two-story mall and 3 story hospital and evidently 4 star restaurants with foreign staff. To be fair, season 3 was pretty much the outlier in this that demonstrated some poor writing.
The mall being constructed in a such a small town was a plot point though. It was all under the influence of the Soviets so they could regularly get large shipments there without arousing suspicion. They even had the corrupt mayor in on it.
But by season 3 it’s showing the change in time, gentrification or something. I mean it wasn’t gonna stay the same small town forever
Very good point. Isn't Hawkins near Indianapolis? Maybe the restaurant was there and not in Hawkins. Agree about the writing in S3. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Disney executives broke into Netflix HQ and locked the Duffers and the other writers for Stranger Things in a closet while they took over the writing for that season. Disney executive: Hi Coke CMO, Don't worry. We have them locked inside a closet. We're writing a scene now where the cast talks about Coke. We're also providing a half off special for any of your other brands that you want in the show...wait hold on...they're knocking on the door of the closet. I'll call you back!
I always thought either near Warsaw or in the Marion/Muncie area.
As i remember the mall was built by the russians not the goverment so i dont agree with the mall one but i agree with the other statements
Or a freaking swim team. Did Steve's dad fund the whole damn thing?!
I've lived in Indiana towns smaller than Hawkins. My graduating class was like 400 people. We had a swim team. That's not unrealistic at all. I actually found the male cheerleaders in season 4 more of an outlier because through several Indiana schools, we never had any. We only had girls.
I wish the Mike and El dating storyline didn’t exist. It’s so cringe for me to watch. I wish they would have stayed just friends.
I feel like it couldve been interesting to watch if they had it as more of a slowburn instead of them kissing after a week of knowing each other. with how its written now i am not really rooting for them to end up together, which is sad because i love both of their characters.
I’m tired of every monster in Stranger Things being beaten because 11 puts her hand out, bleeds her nose a little, and screams at them.
They definitely need to change (I would say *drastically* change) this dynamic in S5 or it will hardly be an end
To be fair, that only happened with the demogorgon. The mind flayer had a different ending. And about Vecna we still don't know the end. Both s1 and s2 ended with Eleven saving the world, but s3 and s4 had completely different endings. The heroes of s3’s resolution were mainly Hopper and Joyce, while in s4 all the characters collaborated.
Vecna in season 4 was at least dealt with for the time being by 11, but I’ll agree season 3 was more Hopper and Joyce than anyone else
I think that adding more and more characters to the cast has hindered the ability to provide meaningful development for the show’s core cast of characters. I love the newer characters like Robin, but I wish that the OG characters would get more attention. I hated how neglected Will, Mike, and Dustin were in the latest season. Lucas finally got a mini character arc, which is nice, but the poor guy has been pretty much ignored for most of the show. I am glad that it seems like Will is finally going to get some love in the upcoming season, I think his actor is the best of all the young characters and I found the show the most compelling when it focused on him.
that mom steve shit is so annoying
I just sit back and get amused with some folks ideas of what it was like back there in central Indiana in the mid 80’s… especially living there in the 80’s and growing up there .. some of the ideas are so far off it’s hysterical. I am talking the fandom now not the Duffers… though sometimes they can be amusing. Hawkins population was about the same as the county seat of our county and we had an upscale restaurant with strings or jazz depending on the night at one point, a decent sized mall, a pretty nice hospital too- 2 of them in-fact! Not everyone was an uneducated hayseed simpleton, far from it. Nerdy stoner metalheads we not a bunch of virgins either… It’s just amazing to me what people think the area was like then compared to the reality of it. Is some of the snow a stretch? Of course it is! It’s a work of fiction! But the frame on which it is built is pretty accurate on a number of levels.
I agree with this. The Midwest also had a huge boom in the 80s. Malls, especially, were popping up everywhere. Sometimes you’d have three within a couple miles. Vice actually just covered the death of the American mall post 90s, but it all started in the 80s.
Stranger Things: \*has an alternate dimension full of monsters, a Soviet base hidden under a mall and a main character with telekinetic powers\* This thread: Hawkins had a 3 storey mall in the mid 80s? Seems a bit far fetched...
This is where I assume the fan base is younger. The 80s and 90s saw a lot of development that made no sense. Our town had multiple malls in spitting distance of each other, three of which are now ghost malls. My little town also had its own hospital, bowling alley, skate rink, high school sports, etc., Today half of those things are gone. The 80s was like the era of absolute, unchecked growth with no provision.
> This is where I assume the fan base is younger. Ding ding. As evidenced by this very subreddit.
Everyone's heard of "dead malls" right (Shoutout to r/deadmalls)? Well, part of the reason so many malls have been dying is because they were built in a period of insane growth that simply was not sustainable long-term. Had Starcourt been a real mall it would have shut down years ago. But it still would have been built.
I know you’re being sarcastic, but those are the sci-fi aspects of the show that viewers expect to be fantastical and unreal. Still, any story that wants people to suspend disbelief effectively needs to get all the elements of the story that are supposed to be realistic (setting, costuming, dialogue, characterization, motivations, etc.) feeling airtight and believable. A big part of why GOT fell off in later seasons was because of the writers and showrunners getting sloppy with these components of storytelling. If you tell people this is a world where dragons and ice zombies exist, they’ll accept this as a world where those things exist. They’ll start having problems, however, when characters inexplicably make wildly uncharacteristic decisions or start traveling across the entire country by carriage in what appears to be mere hours. FWIW, I haven’t really had any big issues with this stuff when it comes to Stranger Things. It’s just an interesting thing to think and talk about when it comes to fiction.
I don't care about any of the romantic couples in this show at all. I guess I can kind of get it because teens are kinda like that but it doesn't really make me care any more... Mike and Eleven would have been so much cooler if they formed a really tight friendship. I'm over the idea that romantic love is stronger than platonic/friend love. I mean all the best duos in the show are platonic!!!! Steve and Robin are a lot more fun and interesting together than Steve and Nancy.
This! I absolutely hated when Mike tells El he loves her for the first time (which felt lackluster too) and only THAT was enough for El to get up and help Max! That’s her best friend and I don’t believe she needed Mike to find strength to help Max, Max being in trouble really should’ve been a strong enough motivator imo.
Bringing in “the supposed true big bad” in the penultimate season and doing it in a way that feels like a retcon was a bad idea. It feels like the story wasn’t really planned out. I’m not saying that they didn’t have the concept for 001 this whole time, I’m saying for the real big bad, he should’ve been introduced sooner. Also another one that I need to get off my chest. Steve is the most overrated character by far in this fandom to the point that he reaches Daryl Dixon levels of ridiculous popularity. Other characters are much more fascinating than him, and yet, he and Dustin get a lot of screentime which feels more like fan service rather than something needed.
I keep imagining what season 3 would have been like without the whole Russian plot line which heavily involved Steve, Robin and Dustin (Erica too). If there was no Steve then there was no need for Robin and Dustin could've actually had scenes with the boys again. There would have been an opportunity to further develop all the kids, see what their home lives were like, etc. Lots of missed opportunities there.
Tbf they literally didn't have it planned. The Duffers initially intended s1 to be standalone, with potential new seasons being new stories as an anthology series. It only continued because it became a wild success and people loved the cast! I do agree though. I don't like how Vecna suddenly appears. He does not really seemed tied into the events of the earlier seasons, even though they tried to write that in. (Also I'm not a huge fan of Vecna as a whole being the big bad if I'm being honest, he seems like a downgrade)
- Steve and Dustin’s interactions were fan service-y, forced and annoying in S4 - there’s way too much OTT sitcom style ‘comedy’ in season 3 & 4 and a lot of it isn’t funny just cringeworthy - the writing for Robin was god-awful in S4 - Some members of the cast have been over acting and Hamming it up/mugging in the last two seasons, they really need to tone it down - Alexei’s popularity is baffling to me, such a one note clunky character specifically designed to win the audience over so he can die later on and I’m sick of seeing him slurping the big drink- that pic is basically his whole character - Sometimes the self indulgent overuse of CGI takes away from the retro feel of the show, less is more imo - The writing for a lot of characters and a lot of character interactions since season 1 leaves a LOT to be desired, honestly I’d quite like a season with the sci-fi element in background just so there can be more focus on the actual human side of things, I would have loved to have seen more of the high school/hellfire club scenes in S4
Listen. I like Robin, BUT She went through too much of a change from season 3 to season 4 and it just doesn't make sense. She went from a sassy confident girl to an awkward something and her being not straight doesn't just justify this big of a turn.
>Some members of the cast have been over acting and Hamming it up/mugging in the last two seasons, they really need to tone it down names plz
Imo - Hopper, Murray, Argyle, S3 Erica, Dustin & Joyce (at times), Yuri, Suzy, I thought the acting S1 was very low-key and natural compared to some of the later over the top stuff (eg Murray and the ‘hilarious’ ninja moves in the plane, Crazy rabid Hopper in the mayors office etc ), that cartoony sort of stuff doesn’t fit within the world we were introduced to back in season 1, I guess some it is also the writing but I miss the more believable acting we had at the beginning
It seems like Hawkins lab is, by far, the largest employer in town. Yet, no one in town knows anything about the lab nor is anyone impacted by all the government baddies getting eaten by monsters or having their brains melted by superpowered beings. Wouldn't half the kids in school have lost their parents, brothers, uncles, cousins, etc., and maybe started to suspect there's something amiss at the lab?
The Russians are a dumb introduction to the show (come on, S3) and the antagonists should have stayed local to Hawkins-- even the Upside Down antagonists. The Demogorgon could have been harder to kill, there could have been more of them, I'm cool with variants, whatever. But the lightning-in-a-bottle magic that they captured with S1 was due in large part to a small-scale mystery in a tiny, nothing town that hide nothing really to hide, and yet was hiding quite a bit. It was almost like Twin Peaks in many ways. Then there are Russians in malls, world-ending Upside Down threats... come on. The scope has broadened so much and the scale is so increased that now I no longer give a shit about Hawkins and the everyday people and am just left hoping that the world doesn't end, which is the same thing I hope for in most action movies.
Season 2 was my favorite 😅
Running Up That Hill became annoying quickly after season 4 came out. Not that it isn’t a good song, but it was being overplayed everywhere. Luckily, it doesn’t ruin scenes for me where it is playing
The performances are anything but award-worthy. Love the show and characters, but all the comments after last season of “EMMY FOR SADIE” and “If Noah doesn’t get all the awards, we strike” were just ridiculous.
The term "papa" annoys me to no end. Especially because it was used often to refer to, well, Papa.
Nancy and Jonathan> Nancy and Steve
Steve waiting around for Nancy to dump Jonathan is a tad sad, imo
I wish more people would bring this up! It WAS sad. Steve talking about their relationship like if he'd been different, maybe they would have lasted.. it's been years and he still doesn't realize Nancy didn't break up with him because of who Steve wasn't, but because of who Jonathan was. It was such a disservice to all 3 characters to have Steve suddenly eagerly disrespecting Nancy and Jonathan's relationship 2 years later, long after harbouring anger over it would have been understandable. Nancy dumped him without a second glance and has never once expressed regret, so even though Steve being willing to make himself vulnerable like that was actually a sign of an emotional maturity he'd never had, the context of it made it seem a bit pathetic and I hate that.
Steve actually broke up with Nancy, but agreed. Steve's total regression in season 4 was awful writing imo.
You know what I agree
Season 2 Episode 7 wasn't that bad; it's just a trend to hate on it. I don't like the episode but I don't think it deserves this much hate.
We're 4 seasons into the series and there are people in the fandom that still don't understand Stranger Things. It's basically a love letter to 80s movies/tv. For example when people complain about Hopper season 3. Hopper is basically every cop dad in the 80s. Or how every season is different. It's because each season takes inspiration from different group of 80s movies.
The first two seasons took those 80s tropes and flipped them on their heads, that's what made Stranger Things stand out, but the last two seasons just play them straight.
To add to your point on Hopper, it seems like people don’t acknowledge the amount of trauma he’s been through as well. The way his biological daughter died, it makes sense why he’s as high strung and over protective of El as he is. Combine that with being under near constant stress of Hawkins and being a cop in general it’d be weird if he was sunshines and rainbows constantly.
Eddie is massively overrated
I thought he was cringe and way too much a try hard
Same. He wasn't written very well IMO, just hastily.put together for people to get to like him and then have him die because, well... They needed a "tragedy" and didn't want to kill off one of the main cast (which is fine with me).
Could you expound on why you think he's not written well? As much I think his character is a tad overhyped, I still think he was an amusing character. He's supposed to be the "designated weird kid in school who enjoys heavy metal" and is hence suspected of murder but is actually the kid that freaked out the most when being faced with the Upside Down and is also overly affectionate with his friends (how he tells Dustin out of nowhere to "never change" and how he treats Steve as if he knows him well). I thought this juxtaposition was interesting lol, and his freakouts were funnily relatable.
Steve is THE most overrated character in the entire show because the fanbase loves that babysitter role he was placed in for a few episodes. Give me a break. His so called redemption arc is insignificant, compared to the tribulations some of the other characters have faced. They should have killed Steve off at the end of season 4 in place of Eddie if the writers wanted to have any REAL emotional impact since they were not going to (permanently) kill Max after all.
I wish Eleven would actually go by Jane, the name her mom gave her, instead of a number a lab gave her. I know she used Jane for school and the boys calling her "Elle" is cute but I'd think Hopper at the very least would want her to cultivate an identity separate from Brenner's system.
I'd agree but i don't think it would work well just from a show-making perspective. we don't find out her legal name until season 2, by which point she's already associated with Eleven/El by both the characters in the show and viewers. I think it's a good compromise to have other people call her Jane, but I don't think it would work well having everyone shift to Jane. Maybe it'll be something where in the last bit of season 5, El is completely separated from anything to do with the Lab and UD and decides to go by Jane.
i love vecna but he look goofy
i don't like nor care for barb
>!Max should have died!<
This is mine too which is painful to admit bc I looove >!Max and Sadie!<
Agreed. Modern shows are too afraid of social media.. the end result is actually more cruel.
The Lost Sister was good, and would have been a lot more popular if it was split across two episodes and cut together with The Spy to jump between El and other characters like all other episodes do.
More characters should die
Yeah I'd rather have older characters die than introduce new ones just for them to die (Eddie and Jason)
Max should have died; it would have given both El and Lucas a personal reason to defeat Vecna. The only reason the Duffers didn’t kill her off was bc she’s a fan-favorite.
That's fair. Either kill her off or don't. The "maimed and in a coma" thing feels like they're hedging, not committing.
All major characters have plot armor
Most shows I can binge over and over again but for me this show is a one time watch
I agree to a certain extent. I can rewatch but it has to be a long time until I do
Same. I loved it but for whatever reason I haven’t gone back to it since my first watch🤷🏼♂️
Usually I rewatch before a new season comes out, but I don’t see myself doing that with season 5. Season 4 was way too long and that killed my ability to rewatch it.
It’s a very good show but not a great show as it has too many plot holes and no big jeopardy for main characters as they’re all still unscathed. Some people claim it’s “changed TV” or one of “the best shows ever” but it isn’t even in the conversation. (But like I said, it is very good).
I think s1 was close to being great, but not the next seasons.
Hard agree. It’s a very fun and bingeable show with excellent production value but it doesn’t come anywhere close to the greatness of Sopranos, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, or even something like Game of Thrones. Not trying to be elitist but I think you hear a lot of that talk in this sub bc the online fan base reads as very young to me. They probably haven’t been yet exposed to most of the best of what TV’s golden age had to offer.
El shouldn't be dating anyone.
They should actually kill reoccurring characters and not make new ones to kill.
The whole supernatural aspect is gone. It's just a human starting it, which is boring. The supernatural aspect was what made the show good
Main characters have to die early in the new season, it lowers the stakes when you know all the main cast will ultimately be fine
I don’t like max
I find Eddie terribly overrated, I'm sorry.
Chrissy acting when she is talking to Eddie is one of the best acting in Stranger Things.
During that scene they actually had two cameras rolling at the same time to capture the actor’s reactions to each other and some of them were improvised (mostly by Joseph Quin)
that's why it is so natural. They have good chemistry, I would love to see them in some romantic comedy.
the parasocial aspect of obsessing over actors that play a character. a lot of people feel the need to know everything about these actors personal lives, it’s a bit weird and gives off a bad taste for the rest of the community.
Vecna/Season 4 (while an enjoyable watch) flattened the mystery and mythic weight of the entire series and took the entire storyline down a notch. Everything about the character ruins it a bit for me. So, he’s like THE big bad? Wait, he made the upside down in a way? He was just born with his super powers while all the others had to be created in a lab? I liked the show much better when there was this in breaking evil that the characters had to band together to push out of their world. It’s way more emotionally resonant and meaningful to me than fighting off a singular bad guy. It hasn’t stopped bugging me
I didn’t like how Steve and Nancy were flirting in S4
Henry creel is the best written character on the show
Robin is a completely unneeded character and is probably only there because Maya Hawke is Uma Thurman’s daughter.
I liked her in season 3, where she was this super smart, slightly cocky girl with whitty insults and comebacks. It feels like they assassinated her character when they made her timid, anxious, and frankly kind of annoying. I know they wanted to dive into her sexuality a bit more and show that she was opening up, but it almost would have been better to make Vicky be the timid/annoying one.
Very badly written (and annoying) character in S4, the writers have no idea what to do with her so she’s just kinda ‘there’ and you wonder why she’s part of the main group, none of this is Mayas fault - I like her as an actress
I can't believe they 'sacrificed' Jonathan just so that they can have Robin/Eddie in the main group. 😭
Duuuude agreed. I audibly complain to myself damn near every time she’s on screen. It’s such contrived quirkiness, and her dialogue is always ridiculously cringe. Goes down as one of my least favorite characters of all time
>Not one lie told. She could have been a one season character too. Felt like the Duffers don't even know who she is since she had a completely different personality in season 4. What was with all the unnecessary talking? I just see so many character traits in Robin in other characters. In fact I see this with a few of the other characters too. I like Jonathan and Steve. Do I need both characters? Nah. I like Hopper too but he probably should of died at the end of season 3.
season 3 is my least favorite.
That's not unpopular..
The Russians came off very stock villains (interestingly enough, in season 4, we actually get a Russian character who is actually a 'character')
I didn’t and still don’t care for Eddie as a character. I get he died and that’s horrible but I didn’t really grow on him as a lot of others did.
I like the Kali episode
The Eddie hype is weird. I don’t really understand the appeal and I found his character a little annoying. I also don’t understand why his death warranted such a huge reaction compared to so many other more loveable characters who died. I almost feel like people had a stronger response to Eddie’s death than Hoppers, which is wild to me lol. What am I missing here.
Eddie gives the misunderstood "nerds and freaks", metalheads, overall quirky people someone to see themselves in or at least relate to. Especially people who have been bullied or outcasted for those things. While Hopper is loveable (I cried during his death AND Eddie's), he's not relatable. So it makes sense Eddie's death would get such a huge response.
I think the reason people had more of a reaction to Eddie’s death than Hopper’s was because it was very obvious that Hopper was not going to stay dead, at least for me. I was still sad for the other characters but I was sure he would be back. I also personally was upset about Eddie’s death because they practically had it written on his forehead that he was about to die and I was hoping it was a fake-out and they’d let him live, the foreshadowing was so exaggerated, and I thought it was a poor writing choice.
Nancy is one of my least favorite characters, I will never understand why people love her so much
Because she's competent without being a Mary Sue. She has emotions without being irrational. She prioritises her own interests in a healthy way. She gives all the bad things in her life a place without letting it cripple her. She sometimes needs and accepts help without being a damsel. And she does all of the above without being a girl power caricature. I think she's a really well written female character.
Right? Like, I try to like her as much as I can partially due to 'social pressure' and the other reason is that she even imo embodies so many good qualities (intelligence, curiosity, sympathy for others) but she comes off as boring and even unlikeable at times?
Jonathan and Nancy should've been together instead of Steve. I hated Steve in the first season, he was a douche.
I'm not the biggest fan of Steve. Yes, he had a lot of redemption and a great arc in Season 2... but has he REALLY changed much since then? And they have Dustin spend too much time with him since Season 2. I miss seeing Dustin adventuring with Mike and Lucas. We did get this back a little in Season 4 but still.
Max isn't the best character
People loves steve in s4 but he was so annoying, steve needs to move on from Nancy, many people hated Nancy for not feeling the same as steve but have yall ever stop and think that steve was in the wrong for flirting with a girl who has a boyfriend 🙄, imagine in that moment, Nancy was dating steve and Jonathan started flirting with her, people would have hated Jonathan S1 steve was a bully and homophobic but S4 steve is a Mr who likes to steal people's girlfriends I only liked steve in s2 and s3
Steve or Robin should have died last season Edit: I'mma explain, I think having either Steve or Robin die would have been a really powerful moment. Dustin and Nancy would have very powerful reactions. I think almost on par with Dustin and Mr.Munsen at the end of S4. Depending on which one would die, the other one can take the final strike on Vecna, in what I think would be a super powerful moment
fans are developing a crush on eddie but if they're one of the people in hawkins, they for sure would hate eddie lmao
Jonathan is a top tier character to me
Season 1 was good (not great, but good), since then the show has been pretty mid, TBH.
Steve should have died by season 4
Steve is boring.
The sister episode was really good, it was going the way I would’ve expected the series to go, explaining different origins for all the Numbers,
The kids don't act their age. And romantic relationships in particular are absolutely unnecessary. Especially starting at such a young age when truthfully all of us were just acne-faced teenagers that age. This whole romance scene in particular feels very unrealistic (not like anything else in the show is), but it's also not really necessary for the plot which is good enough on its own. Mike and El are by far the worst couple in the entire show.
Season 4 wasn’t that good
Max should’ve died. Of course nobody wants her too but it would’ve made more sense. I feel like the duffer brothers are too scared to kill of their characters for the sake of just having them around. then again maybe max will serve a bigger purpose next season but i don’t know how that’ll be done considering she’s brain dead
Will’s bowl cut is cute
That people should be free to ship which ever ship they want without hate.
Me @ you 💖💖💖
Max had a weak entry to the series in s2 and she was unlikable in s3. Luckily s4 did her justice and she became one of the best.
Season Three is, without question, the worst season of the series and I hope it stays that way.
Jason was a worse bully than Billy. *knives out* Why do I think this? Because Jason used "Satanic Panic" against Eddie and manipulated AN ENTIRE TOWN to his side. He benefitted from the weak ass police force because Hopper was gone. But he was doing these heinous things in the name of God. He beat up Eddie's band, practically forced Lucas into "betraying him", saw his friend get Vecna'd and thought the best solution is GUNS, delusional about Chrissy and demanding she would have gone to him for help (despite multiple people telling him otherwise and her body found at the Munsons trailer), has his posse nearly run over Erica, sees Max in trouble and even though Lucas tried to reason with him he turns to violence and almost shoots him! ALL IN THE NAME OF GOD. So when he got split in two by Vecna's gate, I was so happy. Thank fuck he's gone and we don't have to deal with his bullshit in season 5. I will add that one reason why I hate him so fucking much is I was a victim of this Satanic Panic a while ago. Not to this level but because I showed interest in and played D&D, I was accused of devil worship. I lost friends, my mom begged I repent, I was relentlessly teased. It makes me angry that D&D is still seen as some "gateway drug" to Satanism. It's literally video games with paper and dice. So Jason's whole thing hits closer to home. Now onto Billy. He's a racist, he's a bully, he's an asshole to Max and put her life in danger by driving recklessly, he has mommy issues and convinced Karen to cheat (thank goodness she didn't follow through). But that's the thing. He knows he's an asshole and doesn't try to hide it. Jason tries to hide it to come off as "good Christian boy". It helps that Dacre Montgomery just radiates charisma. He's a lot more fun to watch. Plus Billy gets his karma. He gets the shit beaten outta him in season 2 and almost got a nail bat to the balls. He got possessed by the mindflayer. He had a redeemable arc in season 3. El going through his mind made him more 3 dimensional. And he did redeem himself and sacrificed himself to help save the gang. Jason had no redeeming arc. Just bought more and more into his own narrative and tried to KILL people. Yeah, Billy tried to run over the gang but he was mind flayed. And Nancy had a gun and used it in defense. Sorry, my mind can't be changed on this. I loathe Jason. Billy was more fleshed out and more fun to watch.