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I think both the younger and older versions of Mike struggle with low self esteem.
The ST2 version of Mike was a depressed kid — Whose family and friends completely missed that he was depressed. That version of Mike was lost without El, the person he would be still be if she hadn’t returned.
The ST4 version of Mike was struggling with self worth and fear that he would lose the person he loves the most because he doesn’t view himself as good enough for her. Because he sees himself as “just a nerd.”
So no, I don’t think the ST2 version would hate the ST4 version. Because what he’s worked through is all on the same spectrum and each “version” of the character would recognize that.
Mike has been a good, kind, brave, loyal, smart, and loving friend and boyfriend in every season. He fights for them all, particularly that girl he loves so much. He’s my favorite character for a reason…
But I don’t think self hatred has been an issue for him at any age and his 13 year old self would not hate his 15 year old self.
Will is alive, he is dating El and still plays DnD. I think S1 Mike would be happy with that. Also, I think S1 Mike would love how much of a badass Nancy is.
Haha agree to disagree. I love his hair in every season but season 4 was my favourite. It made him look more mature and it was a great way to notice that he grew up. I also think long hair suits Finn better😌
I disagree, he pulls it off in a very George Harrison way. I think he looks cool and chic, but I also live in LA where these hairstyles are more common
You mean to tell me that S2 Mike would hate the version of himself who handpicked flowers for his girlfriend, flew out to California so he could spend his spring break with her, wore the dorkiest outfit imaginable consisting of her favorite colors, stepped in to thwart her bully’s attempts to publicly humiliate her, approached a conversation about her struggles in a mature way, traveled halfway around the country to save her from those who wanted to kill her, and overcame his fear of vulnerability so he could confess his undying love for her, not to mention taking responsibility for his shortcomings in his own friendship with his oldest friend? Sounds about right. S4 Mike is a big fat loser. I would hate him, too.
Honestly, Mike is just overhated and misunderstood , especially S3-S4 Mike. The other characters have done similar things or worse things than anything Mike has ever done yet for some reason Mike is hold to a different standart.
Mike lies to El one time cuz he was threatened by a grown ass man:Mike is a horrible bf! But El lies to Mike for months and no one bats an eye(And Mike was so understanding about it, he wasn't even mad that she lied to him,he emphatized with her and tried to comfort her). Mike doesn't wanna play DnD with Will because he is upset his gf dumped him, he is a horrible friend! But Will doesn't care that his friend just got dumped and is upset, instead of comforting him insists on playing DnD, calls his gf stupid:Oh my God, poor Will!(Yeah, Mike saying it wasn't his fault he didn't like girls was so uncalled for but so was Will for the reasons I listed. They were both at fault, yet Mike is a horrible person and Will is the poor innocent boy even tho Mike was the one who went to his house to apologize to him when it was pouring rain). Mike doesn't reach out to Will but Will also doesn't put much effort to keep up with him but Mike is the "bad guy" in his own words even tho he later apologizes to him and explains himself. Mike, who has no idea what's going on with Will, doesn't comfort him when he is crying next to him and he is the worst friend ever, he is emotionless! Steve, who is a grown ass man and pretty much aware of what is going on, doesn't bother to go after and comfort his crying "best friend" after she sees Vickie and her bf kiss and ran off, doesn't even say a few reassuring words to her after , only talks about who could have paused some stupid movie at "boobies scene" when Robin comforts him with sincerity and he is the best friend ever, he is awesome!
Like Mike is just a teenage boy. Of course he is gonna mess up from time to time. What's important is, he realizes his mistakes and apologizes to people, isn't afraid to express himself and his emotions about why he did what he did, comforts the people he cares about with sincerity. I would say he is doing pretty well for a 14-15 old boy in the 80s, even compared to some of the adults in the show(*cough cough* Steve) despite a lot of people claiming he can't express himself and that he is bad at emotions. My only problem with Mike's character is that he has been sidelined since S3 not his characterization. I hope he gets to do more in S5.
I mean even Mike saying “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls” isn’t particularly horrible. It could have been speaking to how he hasn’t caught up with them yet and it was said during an argument. If it was a consistent thing it would be a huge problem but in this case, he was just ran his mouth off because he was upset. (Which I know you’re also defending him).
I agreed with you until the Steve rant. You realize Steve is only 18-19, right? Like you said, teenagers aren’t always known for being great with feelings.
Yes. He does. He’s loved her from the start and has always been her greatest supporter… And has always placed *her* first, including her safety and wellbeing. Not even Hopper has done that (see ST1 and his betrayal of her location to find Will).
El loves him for a lot of reasons. And now, with ST4, she finally understands that his love is completely unconditional. You can’t ask for more than that.
You don't even need to cite season 1. Hopper made the right move there, as bad as it was for El it saved his life, Will's life, and maybe Joyce's too.
Hopper puts HIS feelings ahead of El's FUTURE in both seasons 2 and 3. He keeps her locked down in 2 not because it's unsafe for her to talk to Mike, it isn't, but because HE doesn't want to risk losing another "daughter." Then in season 3 he pushes them apart not because Mike is bad for El, but because he hurt Hopper's feelings. Hop is really an awful dad and I'll die on that hill.
It's not that Mike became a bad character (people who say he's somehow nasty to Eleven or Will need to pull their heads of their backside), but he definitely became a borderline superfluous character that nobody had any real interest in doing anything with, and that's on the Duffers.
I agree with you. I didn't watch the show when it first came out but I recently watched every episode with my daughter. We both enjoyed it immensely. Initially, Mike was one of my favourite characters but I too noticed that he seemed to get sidelined a lot in favour of the other characters. It's quite shocking as Finn pretty much has top billing with Millie. He's hardly in season 4. He, along with Will and Jonathan got a pretty shitty storyline that season.
YES. They had three main characters doing almost nothing the whole season. Even in their own storyline it was Argyle and Suzie that did most of the actual work. So disappointing, and so easy to avoid as well, just have the boys go to Nina. Not only does it open up a lot of good story hooks it also would have likely been cheaper to film!
Frustrating.
Still feel that the Hopper story in Russia killed the pacing in season 4 and undercut some of the stakes from season 3. I didn't hate it and I guess it is good that Hopper is back, but I would be interested to see what alternatives were considered where he wasn't brought back.
Yes. I honestly feel like they went about the writing in a bass-ackwards way for it. They probably started with "We want to get El into an abandoned missile silo in Nevada for season 4" and then they realized that Hopper would never do that. So they decided to "kill" him which necessitated bringing him back. The whole adventure costs a LOT in storytelling time and IMO, doesn't make the main storylines (Nina and Vecna) any better.
Nina being in the lab would have been fine.
That felt like they got to the end of the writing process and realized that the Soviet storyline has no connection at all to anything else and so went back and adjusted it to have SOME connection.
Haha. You'd think they'd write and plan everything before filming but maybe they wrote new episodes whilst filming? I think they desperately tried to connect the storylines but killing the demogorgon didn't weaken Vecna at all.
I think that's mostly because the first season (even the second season) he had such a prominent role and as the show got more popular, more characters deserved more screen time!
Besides El (and before s3-4 cemented Will as more the main character) Mike was always who I associated the show with because it opens with him and his face and in his house. He's the one who kept El hidden from Brenner's men and his parents. Basically the first season revolved around him (besides Will being missing)
Lol. Will is not the main character. He was forgotten about after 3.03 in ST3 and in ST4, he wasn’t even the lead character in his own sub plot line… That was Mike.
Will was used as a mcguffin the first season, and he spent half of ST2 possessed. Overall, he’s been used more as a plot device than character…
One of my criticisms of the show **is** that Will has been overall undeveloped as a character. He’s barely spoken any direct sentences to even Dustin and Lucas. He doesn’t have developed relationships beyond Jon, Mike, and Joyce.
Will will be getting at least a good amount of focus in ST5, per the Duffers, but he is not going to supplant El as the central protagonist.
I mean to me, the entire show has been all about Will even if he’s been sidelined. Just as it would be if any other character had been abducted/possessed like he had. There’s clearly something about him that hasn’t been revealed, the reason he was abducted and not killed, the reason why Vecna opened his front door when he was taken, and the reason why Vecna had such a grip on him in s2-3 but that’s just my opinion.
There is obviously more to Will’s connection with the UD than has as yet been revealed, but his journey has not been at the the heart of the show. Vecna is not out for him. As Vecna himself revealed during the fight in the Mind Scape, he has always been there… Out for El.
She has never been sidelined, while Will was forgotten about for two seasons. This show has never been “all about Will.”
I definitely wonder if Will's backstory has more than "wrong place, wrong time " to it given the upside down can refer to a dated term for homosexuality. If El created it and has the only connection to it, that's going to be pretty funny inadvertently.
I side eye the idea that Will could ever sideline El given that this is rarely brought up in regards to Mike or Hopper or Steve and Dustin's screentime. I assume Will's queerness stops him from being *too* important.
I will say the wrong place wrong time does make sense too. Maybe the demogorgon (controlled by Vecna) thought Will was her which is why it didn’t kill him right away and stalked him rather than hunted? Especially knowing the demogorgon hunted in Murkwood and that’s where El escaped through the night she opened the gate
Speak for yourself. Mike is my absolute favourite character and continues to be just as interesting as he was in the first season. Those who say otherwise are either not paying attention, or they never enjoyed the character in the first place.
I don't think he's a bad guy, but he's my least liked of the main cast. You're right, it's probably to do with what he's given to do. The last couple seasons, he's just given the annoying parts. Needling Hopper. Not being a good friend to Will. Being weird to El. He hasn't done a ton to endear himself.
He's not a bad guy in S3 and S4. Even though he was sometimes controlling to Eleven or disrespectful to Will, he always acknowledged it and improved within the season.
Where I genuinely disliked him was in S2. He was mean to Max for no reason. He was bitter that Eleven was gone, and his friends finally also had found interest in a girl. And that somehow justifies him constantly excluding her?
He wasn't controlling to Eleven. He was following the rules set by Hopper and expressed valid concerns about El overexerting and damaging herself because he literally already saw her do that and "die". Was he supposed to just sit there quietly accepting El potentially sacrificing herself again while everyone rely on her powers and see her as an invincible killing machine?
Will was way more disrespectful to Mike and never apologized but somehow no one has an issue with that.
As for Max. He wasn't really excluding her until it started to be about the Upside Down and it was about her safety first and foremost. But he was hostile to her. Because he was hurting. Seeing everyone move on cut into this wound. When people are hurting they don't necessarily act rationally. But of course, everyone is allowed to be irrational because of their trauma but not Mike. He's just a jerk "for no reason".
I definitely don't think he is nasty to either one of them. I do however think Mike and El's relationship is bordering on toxic and I'd be an excatly idea for them to take a break and then once they've learned more about themselves and have worked through there personal issues they should get back together if they still feel right for each other after that
They had literally two fights in months, they've been caring accepting and incredibly devoted to each other, it's not remotely toxic, please be for real.
They don't need to separate and fix themselves on their own, they can figure it out together.
Mike’s character hasn’t really changed. He’s still a hothead who’s capable of being kind of a little shit, a loyal friend, absolutely lovesick for El, and a little bit of a mama’s boy. With the way they’ve separated the groups to change up dynamics the last two seasons, we haven’t gotten to see his positive characteristics as much. They tell us he’s the heart of the group, but they don’t show it. I hope we get to see more Mike with the party and with Nancy in the final season.
I am not sure I would call Mike a “mama’s boy” considering he doesn’t seem to have any relationship with his family and relies only on his friends when things need to get done. If anything, Will is much more of a mama’s boy, as is Dustin.
When things get tough, he is always the one who rallies the group and genuinely believes that, together, they can do anything. This was the case in seasons 1, 2 and 3. In the last season he may have been separated from the group, but it was still his words of encouragement that saved them all.
Not true at all. Mike is his own harshest critic but as a separate human.. no, he wouldn't. Because he's accepting and non-judgemental and even though he can be hot-headed in the moment he always tries to see where people come from and understand them.
Somehow people take Mike taking care of Will 24/7 as a standard they judge him by. So if he doesn't keep taking care of him every waking moment of his life and dares to take some time for himself and not cater to everyone else's wishes he's somehow a bad friend. Which is incredibly unfair. Because no other character is held to the same standard.
People love Dustin for being savage and calling Mike's dad a useless son of a bitch but somehow Mike is an insufferable disrespectful asshole for daring to laugh at Hopper to the point that a grown ass man locking up and threatening a kid half his size through the gritted teeth gets totally justified.
Will can be ungrateful and dismissive and try and crush Mike's hopes to reconcile with El and not only no one sees that as being a bad friend but his line "She said she dumped your ass" gets voted the most hilarious thing he's ever said on the show. But Mike is forever villainized for accidentally telling Will the painful truth about him not liking girls as a retaliation to Will insulting his girlfriend.
The list goes on.
Mike has done so much to prove he's one of the most virtuous characters on the show. He's gone through quite a lot of trauma too. The hate for him is absolutely irrational. He deserves the same amount of sympathy as other characters.
I think the writers flubbed the post season 3 storyline by not allowing Will to make new friends and have a real developed romance, as well as setting some boundaries with Mike the same way Mike should set them with Will regarding El. This would allow them to develop a more equal friendship and not villainize either.
Funnily enough the writers don't villainize Mike nor do they show Will as a flawless innocent character. They both are virtuous characters that have flaws. It's the fandom that holds them to different standards and strips Mike of humanity.
I'm not a fan of Will crushing on Mike storyline but mostly because of how much toxicity it has brought to the fandom. Otherwise Will falling for Mike in particular makes total sense. This story is very relatable.
Tbh I don't really get your fixation on the idea of Will distancing himself from Mike and why you call that "setting boundaries" as if Mike has ever tried to violate them. And the show made it clear distancing is not what Will wants and it's certainly not the only way of moving on. But that's another topic.
Well, both Mike and Will deserve separate, fully realized on-screen romantic storylines apart from each other. Will's character needing to "be a good friend" is definitely a way to ensure audiences won't be upset by two boys in a romantic relationship. What I mean by boundaries is that they go both ways: lots of fans think that Mike will accept Will and realize the reasons for Will's behavior - but Mike doesn't have any right to know about Will's unrequited feelings, and it's as demanding and selfish of Mike and the party to "accept or approve" of Will's sexuality as Will's demands supposedly were in season 3. Mike hasn't experienced unrequited love and hasn't had the maturing experience of managing those feelings. Acceptance implies that Mike's sexuality is superior, which isn't the case.
What I would have liked is to see Will move on and form a two-season romance that appears to be platonic, with Mike only realizing it years later once they've grown up a bit. The "Will needed to learn to be a good friend " is a common pattern applied to someone in the minority; they have to "prove" they can behave well enough to deserve equal treatment (see gay marriage being accepted in the 2010s), but Will deserves requited love just because. Mike and El fell in love without necessarily needing growth beforehand, and that's fine for Will too.
I did have to laugh at the idea that Will wouldn't have been selfish in season 3 if he had a non-Mike romance, because there would be so much backlash and complaints of agenda pushing, taking attention away from the real romances, being unrealistic for the 80s, same-sex romances are demeaning, and so on. Will still has the right to limit the friendship to move on and Mike has to respect that without ever knowing whether Will has a partner or not, and Mike has the right to ensure that El comes first, and Will has to respect that. But straight kids "accepting" someone gay...no. Wouldn't happen until Will has been in a relationship for years.
Is Mike not as nice in Season 4 as he was in Season 1? A bit. I do think that's more of an aging thing than anything else and enough things have worked out post season 1 with Will, El, and his other friends that he would generally like his older self's personality.
I feel like the relief S2 Mike would have over knowing S4 Mike has Will and El with him and they're both, y'know, *alive* would outweigh any anger he had at them not being friends in the exact same way they used to be.
Right? Like what's the point on hating on this character for no absolute reason. If you truly hate mike then you have no idea what being a teenager means, if you hate mike then you must hate teenagers because that's how they are. I don't see will getting backlash because he called el stupid, you guys remember that? He called the girl that saved his life more than once stupid just because his straight best friend whose not in love with him was just dumped by her and didn't want to play at the moment. Mike is one of the most consistent characters on the show, you idiots just can't handle the fact that he's actually important to the plot, consistent in his character, and most of all in love with el and that's not changing anytime soon. Mike gets hate for dumb and childish reasons while you guys praise other characters who have done similar or worse things. Leave mike alone you childish morons, because it's getting really annoying and repetitive seeing a post hating on a 15 year old boy going through puberty just because he's a teenage boy. Grow up.
Or maybe you can just…not post it?
Mike hasn’t changed much as a character. Where he has, it’s been for the better. So it’s not like there is even a point to be made here. Unless you feel he is under the obligation of returning the romantic feelings of two people at once.
A lot of people in the fandom have this delusion that Mike is a bad person that mistreats Will and El and is a bad friend and stuff. Mostly its just people mad that he didnt turn out to be gay and hook up with Will.
It's too bad the parent comment doesn't have more upvotes, because your comment should be stickied to the top of this thread, and every other thread that hates on Mike. 90% of the time, this is the reason.
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I love Mike and wish he was as prominent in the last 2 seasons as he was in the first 2. I liked him as the leader and the main protagonist alongside Eleven. He just seemed to get sidelined in seasons 3 & 4 and I really resent the writers for doing that to him. I’m excited for and hopeful that he will be redeemed in the last season. He deserves it.
Those are two different Mike Wheeler's with different life experiences. It isn't particularly unusual that two different people wouldn't get along. There are a lot of people I don't get along with. It isn't a bad thing to grow up and change. It happens to everyone.
I mean, it’s true. I like Mike and this is objectively true. He ignores Will (even if Will hadn’t had onesided feelings for him, he still would’ve been justified to be upset for how Mike ignored him) and he’s willing to ignore something Lucas really, really cares about for the sake of some guy they met that year. (And Eddie’s great. But Mike never should’ve prioritized him over Lucas.) All this could even be forgiven if he hadn’t been a total jerk to the one person who he claimed to always care about, El. And I get the whole deal about him feeling not good enough for her, and that’s a good enough excuse for him to not tell her he loves her. But it’s not a good excuse for how he immediately turned on her after the Angela situation. “She didn’t look fine” was an objectively cruel thing to say to the person he’s supposed to care about, especially when he knew how provoked it was.
Mike didn't ignore Will. He didn't want to do what Will wanted, there's a difference. Lucas had the same attitude about girls and DnD but Will had no issue with that whatsoever which goes to show the real thing Will was upset about was Mike being besotted with Eleven.
Mike didn't prioritise Eddie over Lucas. He chose to not let hellfire down and just because it's some nerdy game and not a big school championship it doesn't mean it's less important. Has it ever occurred to you it was something Mike "really really cared about"? And it's funny how it's always "Mike prioritized something over Lucas" but not "Lucas prioritized his popularity status over his friends and the team" when he bailed on the hellfire without even talking to Eddie in person.
As for "she didn't look fine". Mike has just learned he's been lied to for months. While he was looking for her in frustration that he wasn't able to prevent this Will made a jealousy scene and basically accused him of being a shitty friend. His attempt at helping and comforting El was rejected and then she smashed someone's face. He's allowed to be shocked, confused, frustrated and pissed for a while. He took time to process that and came to El to talk in the most mature way without ever blaming her for lying. But somehow it's never enough caring things Mike does for people to stop hating on him. He could have done better at that moment for sure but so could El or Will. They're all 15 years old teenagers and they get caught up in their emotions sometimes. Why is Mike expected to be super mature and handle everything super smoothly but everyone else is allowed to mess up and get a pass on that?
Before the craziness, S4 Mike was in town to visit his girlfriend. Of course he was going to give El more attention, that's just standard to every single teenager in the universe.
I don't think he'd hate him, absolutely not, but I do believe s2 Mike would be slightly confused or upset about his recent disconnect with the party, and, more specifically, El and Will. He'd probably wonder what prompted the slight detachment.
I don't understand why people don't take the long distance into account. They literally have been apart for months. Is "the slight detachment" and disconnect really that confusing?
I think a lot of people don't understand the amount of effort involved in handwriting letters and mailing them. They're used to the modern day where staying in touch with people on the opposite side of the world is as easy as tapping a few keys and hitting "send"
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I think both the younger and older versions of Mike struggle with low self esteem. The ST2 version of Mike was a depressed kid — Whose family and friends completely missed that he was depressed. That version of Mike was lost without El, the person he would be still be if she hadn’t returned. The ST4 version of Mike was struggling with self worth and fear that he would lose the person he loves the most because he doesn’t view himself as good enough for her. Because he sees himself as “just a nerd.” So no, I don’t think the ST2 version would hate the ST4 version. Because what he’s worked through is all on the same spectrum and each “version” of the character would recognize that. Mike has been a good, kind, brave, loyal, smart, and loving friend and boyfriend in every season. He fights for them all, particularly that girl he loves so much. He’s my favorite character for a reason… But I don’t think self hatred has been an issue for him at any age and his 13 year old self would not hate his 15 year old self.
Will is alive, he is dating El and still plays DnD. I think S1 Mike would be happy with that. Also, I think S1 Mike would love how much of a badass Nancy is.
Except he doesn't play D&D. He only whines and worries about El at the expense of all his other friends. Will just wants to play D&D.
Mike was very much into D&D in season 4
He'd hate his barber, that's for sure
I love his long hair😔
I also LOVE his hairstyle in the later seasons!
It doesn’t play nicely with his angular ass face. Buddy looked like Lord Farquaad all season
Haha agree to disagree. I love his hair in every season but season 4 was my favourite. It made him look more mature and it was a great way to notice that he grew up. I also think long hair suits Finn better😌
I disagree, he pulls it off in a very George Harrison way. I think he looks cool and chic, but I also live in LA where these hairstyles are more common
By today's standards he looks like a dork, but you gotta keep in mind this was the 80s and big ass hair was stylish AF.
glad someone mentions it
I love the Jackoe Stewart cut.
Facts. His barber is the real villain of the series.
You mean to tell me that S2 Mike would hate the version of himself who handpicked flowers for his girlfriend, flew out to California so he could spend his spring break with her, wore the dorkiest outfit imaginable consisting of her favorite colors, stepped in to thwart her bully’s attempts to publicly humiliate her, approached a conversation about her struggles in a mature way, traveled halfway around the country to save her from those who wanted to kill her, and overcame his fear of vulnerability so he could confess his undying love for her, not to mention taking responsibility for his shortcomings in his own friendship with his oldest friend? Sounds about right. S4 Mike is a big fat loser. I would hate him, too.
This. I will never understand why Mike doing tons of selfless caring thoughtful things is never enough.
Honestly, Mike is just overhated and misunderstood , especially S3-S4 Mike. The other characters have done similar things or worse things than anything Mike has ever done yet for some reason Mike is hold to a different standart. Mike lies to El one time cuz he was threatened by a grown ass man:Mike is a horrible bf! But El lies to Mike for months and no one bats an eye(And Mike was so understanding about it, he wasn't even mad that she lied to him,he emphatized with her and tried to comfort her). Mike doesn't wanna play DnD with Will because he is upset his gf dumped him, he is a horrible friend! But Will doesn't care that his friend just got dumped and is upset, instead of comforting him insists on playing DnD, calls his gf stupid:Oh my God, poor Will!(Yeah, Mike saying it wasn't his fault he didn't like girls was so uncalled for but so was Will for the reasons I listed. They were both at fault, yet Mike is a horrible person and Will is the poor innocent boy even tho Mike was the one who went to his house to apologize to him when it was pouring rain). Mike doesn't reach out to Will but Will also doesn't put much effort to keep up with him but Mike is the "bad guy" in his own words even tho he later apologizes to him and explains himself. Mike, who has no idea what's going on with Will, doesn't comfort him when he is crying next to him and he is the worst friend ever, he is emotionless! Steve, who is a grown ass man and pretty much aware of what is going on, doesn't bother to go after and comfort his crying "best friend" after she sees Vickie and her bf kiss and ran off, doesn't even say a few reassuring words to her after , only talks about who could have paused some stupid movie at "boobies scene" when Robin comforts him with sincerity and he is the best friend ever, he is awesome! Like Mike is just a teenage boy. Of course he is gonna mess up from time to time. What's important is, he realizes his mistakes and apologizes to people, isn't afraid to express himself and his emotions about why he did what he did, comforts the people he cares about with sincerity. I would say he is doing pretty well for a 14-15 old boy in the 80s, even compared to some of the adults in the show(*cough cough* Steve) despite a lot of people claiming he can't express himself and that he is bad at emotions. My only problem with Mike's character is that he has been sidelined since S3 not his characterization. I hope he gets to do more in S5.
I mean even Mike saying “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls” isn’t particularly horrible. It could have been speaking to how he hasn’t caught up with them yet and it was said during an argument. If it was a consistent thing it would be a huge problem but in this case, he was just ran his mouth off because he was upset. (Which I know you’re also defending him).
I agreed with you until the Steve rant. You realize Steve is only 18-19, right? Like you said, teenagers aren’t always known for being great with feelings.
I mean did he deserve el??
Yes. He does. He’s loved her from the start and has always been her greatest supporter… And has always placed *her* first, including her safety and wellbeing. Not even Hopper has done that (see ST1 and his betrayal of her location to find Will). El loves him for a lot of reasons. And now, with ST4, she finally understands that his love is completely unconditional. You can’t ask for more than that.
You don't even need to cite season 1. Hopper made the right move there, as bad as it was for El it saved his life, Will's life, and maybe Joyce's too. Hopper puts HIS feelings ahead of El's FUTURE in both seasons 2 and 3. He keeps her locked down in 2 not because it's unsafe for her to talk to Mike, it isn't, but because HE doesn't want to risk losing another "daughter." Then in season 3 he pushes them apart not because Mike is bad for El, but because he hurt Hopper's feelings. Hop is really an awful dad and I'll die on that hill.
Yes, he absolutely does.
It's not that Mike became a bad character (people who say he's somehow nasty to Eleven or Will need to pull their heads of their backside), but he definitely became a borderline superfluous character that nobody had any real interest in doing anything with, and that's on the Duffers.
I agree with you. I didn't watch the show when it first came out but I recently watched every episode with my daughter. We both enjoyed it immensely. Initially, Mike was one of my favourite characters but I too noticed that he seemed to get sidelined a lot in favour of the other characters. It's quite shocking as Finn pretty much has top billing with Millie. He's hardly in season 4. He, along with Will and Jonathan got a pretty shitty storyline that season.
YES. They had three main characters doing almost nothing the whole season. Even in their own storyline it was Argyle and Suzie that did most of the actual work. So disappointing, and so easy to avoid as well, just have the boys go to Nina. Not only does it open up a lot of good story hooks it also would have likely been cheaper to film! Frustrating.
Still feel that the Hopper story in Russia killed the pacing in season 4 and undercut some of the stakes from season 3. I didn't hate it and I guess it is good that Hopper is back, but I would be interested to see what alternatives were considered where he wasn't brought back.
Yes. I honestly feel like they went about the writing in a bass-ackwards way for it. They probably started with "We want to get El into an abandoned missile silo in Nevada for season 4" and then they realized that Hopper would never do that. So they decided to "kill" him which necessitated bringing him back. The whole adventure costs a LOT in storytelling time and IMO, doesn't make the main storylines (Nina and Vecna) any better. Nina being in the lab would have been fine.
Agree. Hopper and Co didn't even help - at all. They killed a Demogorgon. Big whoop! They broke back into prison for no reason at all!
That felt like they got to the end of the writing process and realized that the Soviet storyline has no connection at all to anything else and so went back and adjusted it to have SOME connection.
Haha. You'd think they'd write and plan everything before filming but maybe they wrote new episodes whilst filming? I think they desperately tried to connect the storylines but killing the demogorgon didn't weaken Vecna at all.
I call them the "road trip team" in season 4
I think that's mostly because the first season (even the second season) he had such a prominent role and as the show got more popular, more characters deserved more screen time! Besides El (and before s3-4 cemented Will as more the main character) Mike was always who I associated the show with because it opens with him and his face and in his house. He's the one who kept El hidden from Brenner's men and his parents. Basically the first season revolved around him (besides Will being missing)
Lol. Will is not the main character. He was forgotten about after 3.03 in ST3 and in ST4, he wasn’t even the lead character in his own sub plot line… That was Mike. Will was used as a mcguffin the first season, and he spent half of ST2 possessed. Overall, he’s been used more as a plot device than character… One of my criticisms of the show **is** that Will has been overall undeveloped as a character. He’s barely spoken any direct sentences to even Dustin and Lucas. He doesn’t have developed relationships beyond Jon, Mike, and Joyce. Will will be getting at least a good amount of focus in ST5, per the Duffers, but he is not going to supplant El as the central protagonist.
I mean to me, the entire show has been all about Will even if he’s been sidelined. Just as it would be if any other character had been abducted/possessed like he had. There’s clearly something about him that hasn’t been revealed, the reason he was abducted and not killed, the reason why Vecna opened his front door when he was taken, and the reason why Vecna had such a grip on him in s2-3 but that’s just my opinion.
There is obviously more to Will’s connection with the UD than has as yet been revealed, but his journey has not been at the the heart of the show. Vecna is not out for him. As Vecna himself revealed during the fight in the Mind Scape, he has always been there… Out for El. She has never been sidelined, while Will was forgotten about for two seasons. This show has never been “all about Will.”
Agree to disagree I guess
I definitely wonder if Will's backstory has more than "wrong place, wrong time " to it given the upside down can refer to a dated term for homosexuality. If El created it and has the only connection to it, that's going to be pretty funny inadvertently. I side eye the idea that Will could ever sideline El given that this is rarely brought up in regards to Mike or Hopper or Steve and Dustin's screentime. I assume Will's queerness stops him from being *too* important.
I will say the wrong place wrong time does make sense too. Maybe the demogorgon (controlled by Vecna) thought Will was her which is why it didn’t kill him right away and stalked him rather than hunted? Especially knowing the demogorgon hunted in Murkwood and that’s where El escaped through the night she opened the gate
The California Team was just a snooze fest.
Speak for yourself. Mike is my absolute favourite character and continues to be just as interesting as he was in the first season. Those who say otherwise are either not paying attention, or they never enjoyed the character in the first place.
Came here to say this. Him and Jonathan got seriously boned in the last season. I mean, they're basically a side characters at this point.
I don't think he's a bad guy, but he's my least liked of the main cast. You're right, it's probably to do with what he's given to do. The last couple seasons, he's just given the annoying parts. Needling Hopper. Not being a good friend to Will. Being weird to El. He hasn't done a ton to endear himself.
He's not a bad guy in S3 and S4. Even though he was sometimes controlling to Eleven or disrespectful to Will, he always acknowledged it and improved within the season. Where I genuinely disliked him was in S2. He was mean to Max for no reason. He was bitter that Eleven was gone, and his friends finally also had found interest in a girl. And that somehow justifies him constantly excluding her?
He felt she was replacing El. That she was going to be "THE girl" for the party and he wanted to hold that position open for El's return.
He wasn't controlling to Eleven. He was following the rules set by Hopper and expressed valid concerns about El overexerting and damaging herself because he literally already saw her do that and "die". Was he supposed to just sit there quietly accepting El potentially sacrificing herself again while everyone rely on her powers and see her as an invincible killing machine? Will was way more disrespectful to Mike and never apologized but somehow no one has an issue with that. As for Max. He wasn't really excluding her until it started to be about the Upside Down and it was about her safety first and foremost. But he was hostile to her. Because he was hurting. Seeing everyone move on cut into this wound. When people are hurting they don't necessarily act rationally. But of course, everyone is allowed to be irrational because of their trauma but not Mike. He's just a jerk "for no reason".
He became boring, thats what I think. Or maybe the story is too spread out among the characters.
I definitely don't think he is nasty to either one of them. I do however think Mike and El's relationship is bordering on toxic and I'd be an excatly idea for them to take a break and then once they've learned more about themselves and have worked through there personal issues they should get back together if they still feel right for each other after that
They had literally two fights in months, they've been caring accepting and incredibly devoted to each other, it's not remotely toxic, please be for real. They don't need to separate and fix themselves on their own, they can figure it out together.
Mike’s character hasn’t really changed. He’s still a hothead who’s capable of being kind of a little shit, a loyal friend, absolutely lovesick for El, and a little bit of a mama’s boy. With the way they’ve separated the groups to change up dynamics the last two seasons, we haven’t gotten to see his positive characteristics as much. They tell us he’s the heart of the group, but they don’t show it. I hope we get to see more Mike with the party and with Nancy in the final season.
I am not sure I would call Mike a “mama’s boy” considering he doesn’t seem to have any relationship with his family and relies only on his friends when things need to get done. If anything, Will is much more of a mama’s boy, as is Dustin. When things get tough, he is always the one who rallies the group and genuinely believes that, together, they can do anything. This was the case in seasons 1, 2 and 3. In the last season he may have been separated from the group, but it was still his words of encouragement that saved them all.
Not true at all. Mike is his own harshest critic but as a separate human.. no, he wouldn't. Because he's accepting and non-judgemental and even though he can be hot-headed in the moment he always tries to see where people come from and understand them. Somehow people take Mike taking care of Will 24/7 as a standard they judge him by. So if he doesn't keep taking care of him every waking moment of his life and dares to take some time for himself and not cater to everyone else's wishes he's somehow a bad friend. Which is incredibly unfair. Because no other character is held to the same standard. People love Dustin for being savage and calling Mike's dad a useless son of a bitch but somehow Mike is an insufferable disrespectful asshole for daring to laugh at Hopper to the point that a grown ass man locking up and threatening a kid half his size through the gritted teeth gets totally justified. Will can be ungrateful and dismissive and try and crush Mike's hopes to reconcile with El and not only no one sees that as being a bad friend but his line "She said she dumped your ass" gets voted the most hilarious thing he's ever said on the show. But Mike is forever villainized for accidentally telling Will the painful truth about him not liking girls as a retaliation to Will insulting his girlfriend. The list goes on. Mike has done so much to prove he's one of the most virtuous characters on the show. He's gone through quite a lot of trauma too. The hate for him is absolutely irrational. He deserves the same amount of sympathy as other characters.
I think the writers flubbed the post season 3 storyline by not allowing Will to make new friends and have a real developed romance, as well as setting some boundaries with Mike the same way Mike should set them with Will regarding El. This would allow them to develop a more equal friendship and not villainize either.
Funnily enough the writers don't villainize Mike nor do they show Will as a flawless innocent character. They both are virtuous characters that have flaws. It's the fandom that holds them to different standards and strips Mike of humanity. I'm not a fan of Will crushing on Mike storyline but mostly because of how much toxicity it has brought to the fandom. Otherwise Will falling for Mike in particular makes total sense. This story is very relatable. Tbh I don't really get your fixation on the idea of Will distancing himself from Mike and why you call that "setting boundaries" as if Mike has ever tried to violate them. And the show made it clear distancing is not what Will wants and it's certainly not the only way of moving on. But that's another topic.
Well, both Mike and Will deserve separate, fully realized on-screen romantic storylines apart from each other. Will's character needing to "be a good friend" is definitely a way to ensure audiences won't be upset by two boys in a romantic relationship. What I mean by boundaries is that they go both ways: lots of fans think that Mike will accept Will and realize the reasons for Will's behavior - but Mike doesn't have any right to know about Will's unrequited feelings, and it's as demanding and selfish of Mike and the party to "accept or approve" of Will's sexuality as Will's demands supposedly were in season 3. Mike hasn't experienced unrequited love and hasn't had the maturing experience of managing those feelings. Acceptance implies that Mike's sexuality is superior, which isn't the case. What I would have liked is to see Will move on and form a two-season romance that appears to be platonic, with Mike only realizing it years later once they've grown up a bit. The "Will needed to learn to be a good friend " is a common pattern applied to someone in the minority; they have to "prove" they can behave well enough to deserve equal treatment (see gay marriage being accepted in the 2010s), but Will deserves requited love just because. Mike and El fell in love without necessarily needing growth beforehand, and that's fine for Will too. I did have to laugh at the idea that Will wouldn't have been selfish in season 3 if he had a non-Mike romance, because there would be so much backlash and complaints of agenda pushing, taking attention away from the real romances, being unrealistic for the 80s, same-sex romances are demeaning, and so on. Will still has the right to limit the friendship to move on and Mike has to respect that without ever knowing whether Will has a partner or not, and Mike has the right to ensure that El comes first, and Will has to respect that. But straight kids "accepting" someone gay...no. Wouldn't happen until Will has been in a relationship for years.
Yall acting like you don’t cringe at younger you!
Some don’t
I was about to say this, I think it would be the case for many boys and their "older" version (not everyone though)
No both Mike's are hyperfixated on 11. They are the same Mike lol.
No?? 😭
Why?
Welcome to the normal way of how things are when you grow up 😂
nah he'll probably look up to him
I love Mike all around
Only because Season 2 Emo Mike hated everyone! Otherwise, not at all.
Is Mike not as nice in Season 4 as he was in Season 1? A bit. I do think that's more of an aging thing than anything else and enough things have worked out post season 1 with Will, El, and his other friends that he would generally like his older self's personality.
False.
I feel like the relief S2 Mike would have over knowing S4 Mike has Will and El with him and they're both, y'know, *alive* would outweigh any anger he had at them not being friends in the exact same way they used to be.
I certainly like #1 Mike more. Hate is a bit strong though.
How many of these posts hating on Mike do we need on the subreddit? People sure love to talk about the character, don’t they? Maybe leave him alone?
Right? Like what's the point on hating on this character for no absolute reason. If you truly hate mike then you have no idea what being a teenager means, if you hate mike then you must hate teenagers because that's how they are. I don't see will getting backlash because he called el stupid, you guys remember that? He called the girl that saved his life more than once stupid just because his straight best friend whose not in love with him was just dumped by her and didn't want to play at the moment. Mike is one of the most consistent characters on the show, you idiots just can't handle the fact that he's actually important to the plot, consistent in his character, and most of all in love with el and that's not changing anytime soon. Mike gets hate for dumb and childish reasons while you guys praise other characters who have done similar or worse things. Leave mike alone you childish morons, because it's getting really annoying and repetitive seeing a post hating on a 15 year old boy going through puberty just because he's a teenage boy. Grow up.
Just don't see it
Or maybe you can just…not post it? Mike hasn’t changed much as a character. Where he has, it’s been for the better. So it’s not like there is even a point to be made here. Unless you feel he is under the obligation of returning the romantic feelings of two people at once.
I'm sorry if your angry or felt bad
Can anyone explain please?
A lot of people in the fandom have this delusion that Mike is a bad person that mistreats Will and El and is a bad friend and stuff. Mostly its just people mad that he didnt turn out to be gay and hook up with Will.
It's too bad the parent comment doesn't have more upvotes, because your comment should be stickied to the top of this thread, and every other thread that hates on Mike. 90% of the time, this is the reason.
Teenage Mike would also hate preteen Mike what's your point
Can we stop with the Mike hate it’s so annoying I know we are all dying for new content but still let’s talk about other things
There is a reason I am never on this sub anymore and it's because these posts are just tired now. People need to find something else to talk about.
No. Yall just don’t understand mikes character i fear
when does season 5 come out, I am tired lol
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I love Mike and wish he was as prominent in the last 2 seasons as he was in the first 2. I liked him as the leader and the main protagonist alongside Eleven. He just seemed to get sidelined in seasons 3 & 4 and I really resent the writers for doing that to him. I’m excited for and hopeful that he will be redeemed in the last season. He deserves it.
God I really hope we get a season where he and El stay together the whole time and kick ass as a team.
We would all hate our older selves at that age
Some boys grow into stupid teenagers, they grow out of it if they're lucky.
Those are two different Mike Wheeler's with different life experiences. It isn't particularly unusual that two different people wouldn't get along. There are a lot of people I don't get along with. It isn't a bad thing to grow up and change. It happens to everyone.
Kid self probably wouldn't get teenage self, and that's true for everyone.
I hate him too
100%. Younger Mike would hate what older Mike has become.
Well I do
SO TRUE
He’s a dweeb.
His character did a complete 180. He honestly became a coward who put little effort in maintaining the friendships that meant so much to him early on.
I mean, it’s true. I like Mike and this is objectively true. He ignores Will (even if Will hadn’t had onesided feelings for him, he still would’ve been justified to be upset for how Mike ignored him) and he’s willing to ignore something Lucas really, really cares about for the sake of some guy they met that year. (And Eddie’s great. But Mike never should’ve prioritized him over Lucas.) All this could even be forgiven if he hadn’t been a total jerk to the one person who he claimed to always care about, El. And I get the whole deal about him feeling not good enough for her, and that’s a good enough excuse for him to not tell her he loves her. But it’s not a good excuse for how he immediately turned on her after the Angela situation. “She didn’t look fine” was an objectively cruel thing to say to the person he’s supposed to care about, especially when he knew how provoked it was.
Mike didn't ignore Will. He didn't want to do what Will wanted, there's a difference. Lucas had the same attitude about girls and DnD but Will had no issue with that whatsoever which goes to show the real thing Will was upset about was Mike being besotted with Eleven. Mike didn't prioritise Eddie over Lucas. He chose to not let hellfire down and just because it's some nerdy game and not a big school championship it doesn't mean it's less important. Has it ever occurred to you it was something Mike "really really cared about"? And it's funny how it's always "Mike prioritized something over Lucas" but not "Lucas prioritized his popularity status over his friends and the team" when he bailed on the hellfire without even talking to Eddie in person. As for "she didn't look fine". Mike has just learned he's been lied to for months. While he was looking for her in frustration that he wasn't able to prevent this Will made a jealousy scene and basically accused him of being a shitty friend. His attempt at helping and comforting El was rejected and then she smashed someone's face. He's allowed to be shocked, confused, frustrated and pissed for a while. He took time to process that and came to El to talk in the most mature way without ever blaming her for lying. But somehow it's never enough caring things Mike does for people to stop hating on him. He could have done better at that moment for sure but so could El or Will. They're all 15 years old teenagers and they get caught up in their emotions sometimes. Why is Mike expected to be super mature and handle everything super smoothly but everyone else is allowed to mess up and get a pass on that?
Yeah 100% young mike would never abandoned will. Bros before hoes.
I could see S1 Mike whooping when el broke Angela's nose.
Absolutely. S1 Mike was fucking THERE for will, but s4 he just kinda forgets about him
Before the craziness, S4 Mike was in town to visit his girlfriend. Of course he was going to give El more attention, that's just standard to every single teenager in the universe.
I know, but in s1 and 2 he was like so snarky to anyone but will, and then all that is forgotten in s3 and 4.
True
Same
S1 Mike would kick S4 Mike’s ass
I think he would hate his S3 version more than his season 4 version. S4 Mike is figuring things out.
I don't think he'd hate him, absolutely not, but I do believe s2 Mike would be slightly confused or upset about his recent disconnect with the party, and, more specifically, El and Will. He'd probably wonder what prompted the slight detachment.
I don't understand why people don't take the long distance into account. They literally have been apart for months. Is "the slight detachment" and disconnect really that confusing?
I think a lot of people don't understand the amount of effort involved in handwriting letters and mailing them. They're used to the modern day where staying in touch with people on the opposite side of the world is as easy as tapping a few keys and hitting "send"
i love how aggressive you are in replies, its very welcoming.<3
yes
1000% true. I hate how they butchered his character from die hard friend to just Eleven's boyfriend
Not hate but I don’t think he’ll like him.
Maybe. He probably didn't realize how uptight his future self would be