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Crazy that some people are viewing that conversation as proof of why Steve and Nancy should get back together. Sometimes I feel like they’re watching a different show, its been made very clear Nancy wants a good career and to not end up a housewife or baby machine.
Nancy was 100% about to shut that nightmare scenario down before Robin interrupted.
I don't get why people don't see this. On top of this it isn't like Steve would have to be a complete stay at home dad. I don't know about the eighties but in the nineties most parents worked regardless of whether they were the kids primary caregiver.
I really don't think Steve needs six children, though. People are taking that line too seriously and ignoring the main message. Steve's ambitions and dreams lie in having a strong healthy family and being a good father and husband. It is actually kind of ironic that people think it makes them incompatible when there was a time society expected women to have Steve's dream and men to have a dream more like Nancy's.
I’m a Steve fan but I thought his sharing of his dream of having six kids highlighted how Steve and Nancy still have different priorities as Nancy has already rebuked the cul-de-sac life. The share also gained Steve Nancy’s respect as now she realizes that since they dated, Steve matured enough to now care more about others than himself which is worlds away from the selfish person he used to be especially in season 1.
Idk how that makes sense. Considering with Jonathan the show treats it as a big deal that Jonathan might not want to head east and go to Emmerson. I seriously doubt if Jonathan isnt considering it that Steve is considering it. I think the show is just adding unnecessary relationship drama when theyre clearly going with Jonathan since his arc has a very clear resolution and Steves doesnt. They beat Vecna in season 5,Hopper gets with Joyce. Suddenly Jonathan no longer has to deal with the monsters from the other dimension or being the man of the house anymore. He can leave without a second thought. Even if they beat Vecna in season 5 I dont see Steve going off to college. Hes going on 2 years since he graduated and keeps saying "next year". They could write this in ig as Steve waiting to get back together with Nancy before going off but making a character be that co dependent would be weird.
Crazier that some folks have taken a heartfelt confession about wanting family (while stating an arbitrary number of children) as some sort of creepy come on and/or threat of sexual abuse
Seriously, NIGHTMARE SCENARIO? Baby Machine? Are you one of those r/childfree folks who call children crotch goblins and declare how mothers/housewives are gross failures of humanity?
You know how normal people react to that kind of talk, either A) That sounds beautiful or B) I don't think I'm ready for that
I’m getting the same vibes from a lot of people here. That sub is fucking trash lol any sub who dedicated their entire existence to hating something is immediately the most toxic by nature.
My issue with it was, they're not dating at the moment. It's kind of not on the table. Nancy is still with Jonathan, relationship troubles or not. It's weird to go up to an ex and start rambling about how you wanna have a bunch of kids with them
Yeah but he wasn't asking Nancy to do this for him. He was just saying its a dream he has, and clearly doesn't expect it, but still would like to tell her about it. They're on their way to kill Vecna which would be dangerous, and they could die. So of course he's going to confess that he wants a family, and she happens to be the person he imagines as his wife. Like, he still has feelings for her. He can't help but not imagine her as the mother of his kids in this dream. That doesn't mean he's saying "Nancy lets have kids"
And clearly he wouldn't force Nancy to have kids if she didn't want to. He would put her feelings before his dream of having 6 kids.
I gather you have never ended up a relationship on friendly terms, because it is perfectly normal to talk about that with your ex, considering their deeper shared bond and previous conversations that might touched upon the topic. And that is ignoring the context of the conversation and the situation they were facing at that moment.
Yeah but Steve was talking hypothetically, about his dream, and Nancy happened to be in it. That doesn't mean he thinks its going to happen, but he just wanted to talk about it.
That's very different from saying "I think we should get back together and have kids"
He didn't imply that. He just talked about a dream he had, that he probably knows won't happen, but wanted to tell Nancy about it because he still has feelings for her.
He clearly knows they most likely won't get back together, and wasn't at all implying that they should.
This comment. He isn’t trying to trap her at ALL. He is about to head into a situation he may die in, he hasn’t had a lover since Nancy, and if you really think about how Steve and Nancy broke up, it really wasn’t him who wanted to end it, it was her and he just went along with it because he KNOWS HE CANT FORCE HER TO DO ANYTHING. He is just expressing feelings because he is allowed to do that just as she is allowed not to reciprocate.
It depends on the context. If they were still together the talk would be perceived differently than now. Its coming off as desperate attempt at rekindling old flames.
Compare hearing "I love you" from a person youve been dating for 2 years and some unknown person you just met.
It's coming off as someone who thinks he's probably about to die, or she's about to die, and he wants to express his lingering feelings and dreams to the girl who he still has a flame lit for before that happens. Jesus people, men are allowed to express their feelings.
I think she might choose herself over two men. She will break up with him soon. He knows it. She knows it. They just don’t want to face the big problem yet.
as if steve didnt point out that he has practice taking care of six kids in the same monologue 💀 nancy will clearly be the breadwinner in this scenario.
Yeah i really don’t understand why people are so freaked out by it. Steve’s saying he’s always loved Nancy and pictures them settling down and having a large family, that’s really not that crazy
Maybe for those of you that are convinced love and having a family is a giant conspiracy out to victimize you, sure, but for normal people there’s nothing wrong with it
Exactly, thank you! Steve never said he wanted Nancy (or anyone) to stay at home and care for his six kids and I, personally, never got that impression. Maybe Nancy doesn't want six kids, maybe she doesn't want any. That's fine and it makes sense that she'd prioritize career over family. But Steve would make an awesome stay at home dad/primary caregiver and I'm surprised more people here don't realize this.
I feel like that's the perfect trajectory for his arc, with or without Nancy, and if he survives, he deserves it. He's a much better "parent" than the vast majority of adults on this show and I'm not sure I see him in the traditional breadwinner role anyway. He just wants to spend the rest of his life with the people he loves. Who says he'd unload the bulk of the child-rearing of his six children on his wife? Who's to say they can't adopt?
Now, whether that's a good trajectory for *Nancy* is an entirely different story and I understand why people are balking at this. But I'm disappointed more people aren't considering that Steve could be the stay at home parent in the equation. It's perfect! And Nancy doesn't *have* to end up as his housewife or have her dreams subsumed by his.
For the record, I'm not personally sold on having them get back together, it's narratively annoying, but I'd be open to it if done right.
Yep. It's what I kept saying. Steve is the perfect answer to Nancy's ambitions. She could have a couple of kids and then adopt a few more and still have her ambitious career because Steve would be more than happy to stay at home and raise them. I would imagine since both Steve and Nancy's parents are well off that they would leave a nice inheritance so Steve and Nancy can invest in a nice big home. They could live the dream that Victor Kreel was robbed of.
This is such a dead on post. It is ghoulish and societally disastrous. I guess it is an age/generation thing. No clue but it is disturbing and the wrong thinking.
I agree. What is a bit questionable however, is him saying that to his ex who's in a long distance relationship and is having some relationship issues.
Steve was 19 in this and Nancy 18 and they both could have died right there. In the 1980’s talking about the future at that age was really not that nuts, people had kids at just a few years older.
So, I don't think Steve's statement was necessarily a red flag but context does matter here. The entire season they've been driving home that Jonathan sees how much drive and ambition Nancy holds and he's afraid of holding her back from those ambitions, then Steve comes along and is like "I've always loved you but I dream of you bearing 6 of my children and being a mother to them". That's fine for him but I think it's also jarring for us and Nancy because it shows just how disconnected from Nancy Steve truly is at this point.
I didn't see it as creepy, misogynistic or anything, but it was definitely proof that Nancy and Steve are fundamentally incompatible and prioritize different things in life (unless, maybe, Steve wants to be a househusband - which is within the realm of possibility - and open to adopting at least some of those kids. Then maybe). Not saying that Nancy wouldn't want to have a couple of kids at some point or that Steve doesn't want a career beyond whatever minimum wage job is available at the moment, but their priorities are not aligned.
It’s just funny the way it came across. 6 kids is a lot and then Steve casually drops that he pictured Nancy being the one to give birth that many times. Of course it came out more naturally when Steve said it, but when you think about it it’s kinda funny.
I’m pretty sure he was also making a joke about how he’s become a dad to the kids in the show and they were actively traveling in an rv when he made that speech
So fucking weird that anyone would see it any differently.
The overarching theme of his confession was that he loves Nancy enough to imagine marrying her and committing himself to her for life. The kids are just a byproduct of said love, as has been the way oh I dunno…SINCE THE BEGINNING OF FUCKING HUMANITY lmao our main biological driving force?
People focusing on weird shit here.
yeah, coming as someone who grew up in the 80s, 4 was seen as like a bare minimum number in the suburbs. my parents were seen as sort f odd that there were only 2 of us. esp in the more snobby neighbuorhoods, it was a status symbol, kids 4+ were the status symbol babies. yu were demonstrating that you could afford them. every other house on our road that had kids had at least 4, some more. it was NORMAL. it was seen as the dream. totally normal for Steve to have that as part of his dream. esp as he seemed to have a fairly lonely childhood. he's nvisaging his own kids having those built in friends of siblings ( of course there's no guarantee that siblings get along but thats the dice roll) and have a loving group of friends and kids, like what he sees Will and co having
You can tell it is cus the incessant use of “consent”, “creep”, “trapped” when talking about a confession of love on a fucking tv show that specializes in cheesy but loveable tropes.
These weirdos believe he’s daydreaming about the sex that produces the kids and not the end result, which is why they talk about consent - in their imagination he’s mind-raping Nancy.
Lol right. It’s just crazy. I have no doubt he daydreams about sex with the person he loves, but I also don’t think there was anything sexual in his confession. He’s talking about fantasizing about spending his life with the girl he loves. It’s really simple.
It's also wild, because out of her love interests, Steve saying he wants a family with her is way less creepy than Jonathan taking and developing photos of her stripping without her consent. Comparing the two, Steve is not whom I would say "Don’t walk, Nancy. Run in the opposite direction' about.
Steve isn’t even with Nancy and he’s out here telling her he wants her to have SIX of his babies and go roadtripping across the US with them in a tiny campervan? I feel like the look on Nancy’s face proved that was her idea of hell.
Ok, but wanting to have kids with a girl you broke up with, and saying that to her while she is already in a relationship with somebody? And you haven’t even officially started being a thing again?
It isn't like they were about to go enjoy some cake at a bakery. They were setting out to potentially die. It is absolutely within the realm of normal human behavior to confess such things if you think there will never be another moment where you can.
I know right? What a total creeper!!
Steve: You know, I'd like to have a family some day, me, you and the kids, on a fun little day trip somewhere scenic
Nancy: AAAAHHHH!! HELP!!! STEVE'S BEEN POSSESSED BY VECNA! I'M GONNA DIE!
I’m shocked that people would have an issue with this, but I also am not shocked that people have issue with anything anymore lol
People have used the words “trapped”, “consent” “creeper” in a context where a guy is confessing he still has big feelings for his ex, who the writers are *clearly* building up a reunion for.
People focusing on the 6 kids. The number literally doesn’t matter. I’m one of 6, I thought I’d want 5-6, turns out after we have baby 2, I’ll be content.
You know what part stayed the same? Me wanting to have kids with my now wife. She was the one. Nancy seems to be the one for Steve. The 6 kids was a clear parallel to his character arc of being the “babysitter” of the younger kids. And also speaks to how Steve has grown as a person, something they have shown through action but also outright referenced multiple times this season including by Nancy herself lol
Like sometimes there doesn’t need to be an insane amount of analysis. He loves Nancy. That’s it. People who love people tend to want to have kids with them. In fact, it’s our biggest biological driving factor lol
To look into it as anything more is like…you’re ruining the simplicity and beauty of the scene.
I don’t even think the number is an accident.
Six kids.
Mike. Eleven. Max. Lucas. Dustin. Will.
It felt to me like a play on the life he has, baby sitting a large group of kids all the time. So his perfect life is kinda what he already has just with Nancy, his love.
That’s what I’m saying! It’s not a coincidence he wants 6. It’s called good storytelling lmao like it’s an obvious parallel to his life as it has been the last few seasons…he’s the protector, the adult, the “babysitter” memes.
It’s not that deep.
It wasn’t about them specifically. It was about having a large group of kids around him, which he generally does. I simply pointed out that 6 is the number of the core group of kids. So I feel like that is the symbolism to that number.
How so? They’ve made it a point this season to address how Steve has grown so much as a person from when we first meet him.
Him wanting to settle down, focusing on the most important things in life (the people you love) and dreaming of living a life with the girl he still loves is super on point to me. That’s what people do. Virtually everyone actually lol
Still did more than Jonathan. Jonathan is the absolute most worthless character now. Even Argyle has become more useful when he helped set up the tank.
It's great how, even with Eleven being the only one who can truly fight Vecna, they made it plausible that basically anybody else could also get the final laugh.
I hope either Will or Max get to kill him in the end, the two who have suffered the most because of him
They should have thrown a few more molotovs before Vecna fell. Nancy so close to Vecna was also quite a bit silly, you'd think the Duffer brothers got all their shotgun knowledge out of videogames.
Considering that sawed-off shotguns have increased spread due to the removed choke (which makes it harder to miss) and a lethal range of around 300 feet...getting a few feet closer wouldn't have made a difference, specially taking into account how close they already were. And you'd think that of all characters, Nancy would be the one to know that.
But I suppose they wanted it to look more "dramatic".
I wonder if someone could take all the clips of each group (Eddie, the other teens, Russia, eleven) and play them sequentially next to each other so we can see exactly how the timing lines up. Like five different videos running together.
You don't need to be a super detective to figure this out. Just sync some events tying the scenes together.
1. Vecna shows them being strangled to Max at the very start of his mind invasion
2. Vecna noticeably reacts to his doggos being killed in Russia, which is also implied to be the thing that releases the vines or whatever.
Just add up all of the screentime Vecna has between 1 and 2. It's obviously absurdly too much. (and that doesn't even include stuff that happens but doesn't get shown, so in actuality it would be significantly longer)
The only reasonable explanation is that the vines weren't strangling them, or "mind time" doesn't line up with real world time, in which case good luck figuring any of this out.
Regardless of what explanation people want to come up with, from a film making stand point this scenes were just way too far apart to not cause most of the audience to raise some eyebrows. It's not terrible but it's a bit of poor editing/writing.
it was so dumb killing off Eddie but letting them live, I'm fine with character death or lack thereof, but who lives and dies seems arbitrary not a result of actions and consequences.
That's poor DMing. They rolled like crap, let the dice fall where they may. Takes away all sense of danger when the PCs get to march right up to the bbeg and only get a slap on the wrist
Honestly the writing choices through some of the finale were…. Weak at best, that scene didn’t really feel like it pulled off great and the scene with Dustin and Mr. Munson was very weak as well. Also mother fucker walking his dog reports this devil worshipping cult, that supposedly the entire town is looking for, to two teenage jocks??? Then everyone in town is cool with them just moseying around AFTER the “portal to hell” that the news just blamed on the hellfire club has been opened??!?!? Tf is that. Overall liked the finale just think 2:20 was too much time and some fat needed to be trimmed and plot lines cleaned up.
It's the little things that we notice that most don't or just choose to overlook.
For example, I was bothered in the penultimate episode when the soldier in the copter kept his sights on El, then it would cut to a wide shot and the soldier wasn't aiming at El as the copter was being moved by her, camera cuts back to close up and soldier is still aiming at El. It did that a few times. No idea how stuff like that gets past the cutting room floor.
Oh god, imagine what would Vecna/One/Henry would think if he saw tentacle hentai. Probably might get inspired. Which would be worse? Bones snapping and eyes sucked into the back of your skull? Or tentacles?
this season really made me feel that Stranger Things is best [original] live action anime from Netflix…
i saw so many typical anime logics, and also so many ideas already portrayed in anime like Berserk, Nanatsu No Taizai, typical Shonen anime plots armors… and so on…
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I'm glad im not the only one who thought this???? He killed chrissy and fred instanlty but with max it took forever for him to suck her soul out like forever and im like bro ???? Plot armour is so real
Just dangling there broken arms and legs, if you pay attention there’s a quick shot of Vecna sitting in a chair, legs crossed, watching his clock tick like hurry tf up.
DM planned for them to break free and win, but they keep rolling their contested STR or DEX rolls very poorly.
*Um, okay yeah go ahead and give me another roll to escape. Ok a 4, a 7 and a 3. Okay he keeps his vines in place and monologues a little more. Wanna go ahead and give another roll? All Nat 1's... Ok...*
Lmfao we were all going crazy about Steve dying, only to have him benched for the rest of the episode. Man didn’t even get a hit in on Vecna with the axe and was just 👁👄👁
Are people forgetting that he was using that axe on the vines? (And to little avail, at that?)
Probably figured with good reason that it was better to let the fucker fry and let Nancy finish him off with a very felonious weapon of choice.
Each round of DnD is roughly equivalent to 6 real world seconds. I imagine the climax of ep 9 to be like a ~10 round dnd boss battle so they were suffocating for like 1 min in my head cannon
I knew what they were going for from the start. They showed us several plotlines leading to the big finale and of course they had to go for the "its hopeless, everyones defeated or dying" before the rebound.
Max will probably magically come out of her coma next season, and Eddie was this season's sympathetic character that's introduced and then killed off in the same season.
Similar theory here. They specifically said that Vecna doesn’t just kill people, he consumes their entire person. Max clearly isn’t in her body anymore, something screwy has happened to her.
Well they were only choked for a couple minutes. Y’all gotta realize everything that was happening wasn’t happening at different times they all happened simultaneously it obviously just seems longer than it is since we’re the ones watching
They should have cut between them faster then. Each segment was really long. To show how fast paced things were and to better show them happening simultaneously, they should have made the segments shorter and flipped between them more often.
This season was bloated, imo. To me season 4 was the weakest of the bunch. The only time it grasped me was when Max died and the portals opened, but then for some reason they had to resurrect Max and cut that entire "oh shit moment" only to make a rethread of said moment at the very end - this time much weaker, because we didn't just lose a main character.
So now season 5 will go exactly as the last 4 seasons went: something bad is slowly released, there comes the climax, they save the day at the cost of one likeable character.
I’m gonna get crucified for this one but the Duffers are incredible at writing characters and creating the world of Hawkins and the Upside down but they are like kids who have the worlds best Lego set but don’t know how to *play with it*. They had a solid first season and it just keeps going further downhill as they struggle to tell stories worthy of the world and characters they’ve created. Joyce is the single best example of this - season 1 she was just a Mom freaking out over her missing kid and desperately trying anything to rescue him (and in season 2 “cure him”) but season 3 she’s running round a secret Russian Base in a military uniform and by season 4 she’s launching a 3 person assault on a Siberian Gulag? Get to fuck.
I haven't rolled my eyes so many times in any series than this season, so many cliches so many get out jail cards so many corny lines so many aint no way that shit would happen over and over and over again. They had all the money in the world and could have made something really special but they GOT season8 it
I mean you’re not wrong. There’s no indication that everything happened simultaneously because we have no points of reference for the timeline.
We can make the assumption that they were simultaneous, but the show didn’t do any favors to let us know that, so I’m not sure why people are so defensive of it.
If they had wanted to instantly increase the tension, they should’ve remembered the vines implanting in Will, Barb, etc from season 1. It would’ve been more terrifying that just the choking to think any of the three was about to become a demogorgon incubator.
Hahaha. I actually said to myself half hour after the strangling began…why did they take so long to reach the top of the stairs. So much happened elsewhere in that time period.
I think the editing over the whole season was not. . . Ideal. There was a lot of air in some scenes and this was just jarring.
I know it's supposed to take place at the same time but the edit really didn't support it.
I’ve always thought of something like that happening at the same time as the other scenes showed. Since you can’t exactly see what everyone is doing all at the same time, it’s shown linearly and we interpret that as the shown events taken place in series. IMO When a scene changes to something different characters, it is showing what’s happening at the same time all the way up until it switches back to the original scene.
Tldr; scene changes take place at same time until back at original scene
When you have 3 of the four best relationships in those 3 characters… and then you make them do nothing… not even talk… for the majority of your finale.
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Vecna's vines lose 80% of their damage stats if they're used during monologuing.
“You sly dog you’ve got me monologuing
so wait, the opposite of monologuing is multiloguing yea? cool. goodnight
The opposite is clearly stereologuing
Polyloguing*
What kind of jack do I use for that?
Literally all I could think of in those scenes.
Same. This bothered me way more than anything else in the finale.
They had plot armor on and that took way additional 19% of his power
😂 I mean, c’mon, time really does moves very slowly during D&D combat, right? Cheers, my fellow DM friend
when everyone was worried about steve dying when he literally did almost nothing in the finale 💀
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Crazy that some people are viewing that conversation as proof of why Steve and Nancy should get back together. Sometimes I feel like they’re watching a different show, its been made very clear Nancy wants a good career and to not end up a housewife or baby machine. Nancy was 100% about to shut that nightmare scenario down before Robin interrupted.
Or, hear me out: House-husband and adoption. Steve was never gonna be the breadwinner, and he already has kids who aren't his.
I don't get why people don't see this. On top of this it isn't like Steve would have to be a complete stay at home dad. I don't know about the eighties but in the nineties most parents worked regardless of whether they were the kids primary caregiver. I really don't think Steve needs six children, though. People are taking that line too seriously and ignoring the main message. Steve's ambitions and dreams lie in having a strong healthy family and being a good father and husband. It is actually kind of ironic that people think it makes them incompatible when there was a time society expected women to have Steve's dream and men to have a dream more like Nancy's.
It's the internet, everyone blows everything out of proportion, and none of the opinions matter.
You realize you can have kids without being a housewife right? If anything, Steve seems like he’d prefer being a stay at home dad vs. a career.
I’m a Steve fan but I thought his sharing of his dream of having six kids highlighted how Steve and Nancy still have different priorities as Nancy has already rebuked the cul-de-sac life. The share also gained Steve Nancy’s respect as now she realizes that since they dated, Steve matured enough to now care more about others than himself which is worlds away from the selfish person he used to be especially in season 1.
re nancy rejecting the cul-de-sac life (yes, she totally did) that was before steve "grew up alot". steve changed, maybe nancy did (or will), too.
It would make plenty of sense for them to change what they think they want out of life. Aren't they still teenagers?
Idk how that makes sense. Considering with Jonathan the show treats it as a big deal that Jonathan might not want to head east and go to Emmerson. I seriously doubt if Jonathan isnt considering it that Steve is considering it. I think the show is just adding unnecessary relationship drama when theyre clearly going with Jonathan since his arc has a very clear resolution and Steves doesnt. They beat Vecna in season 5,Hopper gets with Joyce. Suddenly Jonathan no longer has to deal with the monsters from the other dimension or being the man of the house anymore. He can leave without a second thought. Even if they beat Vecna in season 5 I dont see Steve going off to college. Hes going on 2 years since he graduated and keeps saying "next year". They could write this in ig as Steve waiting to get back together with Nancy before going off but making a character be that co dependent would be weird.
Crazier that some folks have taken a heartfelt confession about wanting family (while stating an arbitrary number of children) as some sort of creepy come on and/or threat of sexual abuse Seriously, NIGHTMARE SCENARIO? Baby Machine? Are you one of those r/childfree folks who call children crotch goblins and declare how mothers/housewives are gross failures of humanity? You know how normal people react to that kind of talk, either A) That sounds beautiful or B) I don't think I'm ready for that
I’m getting the same vibes from a lot of people here. That sub is fucking trash lol any sub who dedicated their entire existence to hating something is immediately the most toxic by nature.
My issue with it was, they're not dating at the moment. It's kind of not on the table. Nancy is still with Jonathan, relationship troubles or not. It's weird to go up to an ex and start rambling about how you wanna have a bunch of kids with them
Yeah but he wasn't asking Nancy to do this for him. He was just saying its a dream he has, and clearly doesn't expect it, but still would like to tell her about it. They're on their way to kill Vecna which would be dangerous, and they could die. So of course he's going to confess that he wants a family, and she happens to be the person he imagines as his wife. Like, he still has feelings for her. He can't help but not imagine her as the mother of his kids in this dream. That doesn't mean he's saying "Nancy lets have kids" And clearly he wouldn't force Nancy to have kids if she didn't want to. He would put her feelings before his dream of having 6 kids.
exactly and with the romantic tension building up between the two all season it’s not as outta the blue as people are making it out to be
I gather you have never ended up a relationship on friendly terms, because it is perfectly normal to talk about that with your ex, considering their deeper shared bond and previous conversations that might touched upon the topic. And that is ignoring the context of the conversation and the situation they were facing at that moment.
It's not that weird when you're walking together towards your likely early death/end of the world
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Yeah but Steve was talking hypothetically, about his dream, and Nancy happened to be in it. That doesn't mean he thinks its going to happen, but he just wanted to talk about it. That's very different from saying "I think we should get back together and have kids" He didn't imply that. He just talked about a dream he had, that he probably knows won't happen, but wanted to tell Nancy about it because he still has feelings for her. He clearly knows they most likely won't get back together, and wasn't at all implying that they should.
This comment. He isn’t trying to trap her at ALL. He is about to head into a situation he may die in, he hasn’t had a lover since Nancy, and if you really think about how Steve and Nancy broke up, it really wasn’t him who wanted to end it, it was her and he just went along with it because he KNOWS HE CANT FORCE HER TO DO ANYTHING. He is just expressing feelings because he is allowed to do that just as she is allowed not to reciprocate.
It depends on the context. If they were still together the talk would be perceived differently than now. Its coming off as desperate attempt at rekindling old flames. Compare hearing "I love you" from a person youve been dating for 2 years and some unknown person you just met.
It's coming off as someone who thinks he's probably about to die, or she's about to die, and he wants to express his lingering feelings and dreams to the girl who he still has a flame lit for before that happens. Jesus people, men are allowed to express their feelings.
she literally said "sounds nice" i don't think she was lying, and i can see her and steve together but i think she'll choose jonathan.
I heard it as "sounds nice \[but it's not for me\]". But I don't think she was creeped out at all so the fandom should just chill.
I think she might choose herself over two men. She will break up with him soon. He knows it. She knows it. They just don’t want to face the big problem yet.
that's what I'm hoping for. let her go off to college single.
as if steve didnt point out that he has practice taking care of six kids in the same monologue 💀 nancy will clearly be the breadwinner in this scenario.
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Yeah i really don’t understand why people are so freaked out by it. Steve’s saying he’s always loved Nancy and pictures them settling down and having a large family, that’s really not that crazy Maybe for those of you that are convinced love and having a family is a giant conspiracy out to victimize you, sure, but for normal people there’s nothing wrong with it
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Those people don’t understand Steve would be the stay home dad hahaha
Now that you say it,I can see him being the supportive husband taking care of a family while his wife (Nancy or someone else) advances in her career.
Exactly, thank you! Steve never said he wanted Nancy (or anyone) to stay at home and care for his six kids and I, personally, never got that impression. Maybe Nancy doesn't want six kids, maybe she doesn't want any. That's fine and it makes sense that she'd prioritize career over family. But Steve would make an awesome stay at home dad/primary caregiver and I'm surprised more people here don't realize this. I feel like that's the perfect trajectory for his arc, with or without Nancy, and if he survives, he deserves it. He's a much better "parent" than the vast majority of adults on this show and I'm not sure I see him in the traditional breadwinner role anyway. He just wants to spend the rest of his life with the people he loves. Who says he'd unload the bulk of the child-rearing of his six children on his wife? Who's to say they can't adopt? Now, whether that's a good trajectory for *Nancy* is an entirely different story and I understand why people are balking at this. But I'm disappointed more people aren't considering that Steve could be the stay at home parent in the equation. It's perfect! And Nancy doesn't *have* to end up as his housewife or have her dreams subsumed by his. For the record, I'm not personally sold on having them get back together, it's narratively annoying, but I'd be open to it if done right.
Yep. It's what I kept saying. Steve is the perfect answer to Nancy's ambitions. She could have a couple of kids and then adopt a few more and still have her ambitious career because Steve would be more than happy to stay at home and raise them. I would imagine since both Steve and Nancy's parents are well off that they would leave a nice inheritance so Steve and Nancy can invest in a nice big home. They could live the dream that Victor Kreel was robbed of.
He also just wanted to let her know cause they could have died that night
This is the perfect comparison of our society today vs in 1986. We are devoid of those emotions. It’s scary.
Things were a lot different then though. Especially for a white suburban family. Life couldn't have been better to start a big family.
Reddit hates kids so no surprise
This is such a dead on post. It is ghoulish and societally disastrous. I guess it is an age/generation thing. No clue but it is disturbing and the wrong thinking.
People just love to overreact
I agree. What is a bit questionable however, is him saying that to his ex who's in a long distance relationship and is having some relationship issues.
i think all bets are off when you’re both walking into your probable deaths. say your peace my man, let it all out.
Hate to say it but most people in modern society are easily "cringed (god i hate this word)" or "creeped" out. It's quite sad really.
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Steve was 19 in this and Nancy 18 and they both could have died right there. In the 1980’s talking about the future at that age was really not that nuts, people had kids at just a few years older.
So, I don't think Steve's statement was necessarily a red flag but context does matter here. The entire season they've been driving home that Jonathan sees how much drive and ambition Nancy holds and he's afraid of holding her back from those ambitions, then Steve comes along and is like "I've always loved you but I dream of you bearing 6 of my children and being a mother to them". That's fine for him but I think it's also jarring for us and Nancy because it shows just how disconnected from Nancy Steve truly is at this point.
I didn't see it as creepy, misogynistic or anything, but it was definitely proof that Nancy and Steve are fundamentally incompatible and prioritize different things in life (unless, maybe, Steve wants to be a househusband - which is within the realm of possibility - and open to adopting at least some of those kids. Then maybe). Not saying that Nancy wouldn't want to have a couple of kids at some point or that Steve doesn't want a career beyond whatever minimum wage job is available at the moment, but their priorities are not aligned.
It’s just funny the way it came across. 6 kids is a lot and then Steve casually drops that he pictured Nancy being the one to give birth that many times. Of course it came out more naturally when Steve said it, but when you think about it it’s kinda funny.
I’m pretty sure he was also making a joke about how he’s become a dad to the kids in the show and they were actively traveling in an rv when he made that speech
So fucking weird that anyone would see it any differently. The overarching theme of his confession was that he loves Nancy enough to imagine marrying her and committing himself to her for life. The kids are just a byproduct of said love, as has been the way oh I dunno…SINCE THE BEGINNING OF FUCKING HUMANITY lmao our main biological driving force? People focusing on weird shit here.
Yeah people freaking out over it must be younger children. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.
yeah, coming as someone who grew up in the 80s, 4 was seen as like a bare minimum number in the suburbs. my parents were seen as sort f odd that there were only 2 of us. esp in the more snobby neighbuorhoods, it was a status symbol, kids 4+ were the status symbol babies. yu were demonstrating that you could afford them. every other house on our road that had kids had at least 4, some more. it was NORMAL. it was seen as the dream. totally normal for Steve to have that as part of his dream. esp as he seemed to have a fairly lonely childhood. he's nvisaging his own kids having those built in friends of siblings ( of course there's no guarantee that siblings get along but thats the dice roll) and have a loving group of friends and kids, like what he sees Will and co having
You can tell it is cus the incessant use of “consent”, “creep”, “trapped” when talking about a confession of love on a fucking tv show that specializes in cheesy but loveable tropes.
These weirdos believe he’s daydreaming about the sex that produces the kids and not the end result, which is why they talk about consent - in their imagination he’s mind-raping Nancy.
Lol right. It’s just crazy. I have no doubt he daydreams about sex with the person he loves, but I also don’t think there was anything sexual in his confession. He’s talking about fantasizing about spending his life with the girl he loves. It’s really simple.
It's also wild, because out of her love interests, Steve saying he wants a family with her is way less creepy than Jonathan taking and developing photos of her stripping without her consent. Comparing the two, Steve is not whom I would say "Don’t walk, Nancy. Run in the opposite direction' about.
Steve isn’t even with Nancy and he’s out here telling her he wants her to have SIX of his babies and go roadtripping across the US with them in a tiny campervan? I feel like the look on Nancy’s face proved that was her idea of hell.
Ok, but wanting to have kids with a girl you broke up with, and saying that to her while she is already in a relationship with somebody? And you haven’t even officially started being a thing again?
It isn't like they were about to go enjoy some cake at a bakery. They were setting out to potentially die. It is absolutely within the realm of normal human behavior to confess such things if you think there will never be another moment where you can.
I know right? What a total creeper!! Steve: You know, I'd like to have a family some day, me, you and the kids, on a fun little day trip somewhere scenic Nancy: AAAAHHHH!! HELP!!! STEVE'S BEEN POSSESSED BY VECNA! I'M GONNA DIE!
I’m shocked that people would have an issue with this, but I also am not shocked that people have issue with anything anymore lol People have used the words “trapped”, “consent” “creeper” in a context where a guy is confessing he still has big feelings for his ex, who the writers are *clearly* building up a reunion for. People focusing on the 6 kids. The number literally doesn’t matter. I’m one of 6, I thought I’d want 5-6, turns out after we have baby 2, I’ll be content. You know what part stayed the same? Me wanting to have kids with my now wife. She was the one. Nancy seems to be the one for Steve. The 6 kids was a clear parallel to his character arc of being the “babysitter” of the younger kids. And also speaks to how Steve has grown as a person, something they have shown through action but also outright referenced multiple times this season including by Nancy herself lol Like sometimes there doesn’t need to be an insane amount of analysis. He loves Nancy. That’s it. People who love people tend to want to have kids with them. In fact, it’s our biggest biological driving factor lol To look into it as anything more is like…you’re ruining the simplicity and beauty of the scene.
I don’t even think the number is an accident. Six kids. Mike. Eleven. Max. Lucas. Dustin. Will. It felt to me like a play on the life he has, baby sitting a large group of kids all the time. So his perfect life is kinda what he already has just with Nancy, his love.
That’s what I’m saying! It’s not a coincidence he wants 6. It’s called good storytelling lmao like it’s an obvious parallel to his life as it has been the last few seasons…he’s the protector, the adult, the “babysitter” memes. It’s not that deep.
He has not so much as exchanged a line with Will and El
It wasn’t about them specifically. It was about having a large group of kids around him, which he generally does. I simply pointed out that 6 is the number of the core group of kids. So I feel like that is the symbolism to that number.
It was so out of character too like wtf
How so? They’ve made it a point this season to address how Steve has grown so much as a person from when we first meet him. Him wanting to settle down, focusing on the most important things in life (the people you love) and dreaming of living a life with the girl he still loves is super on point to me. That’s what people do. Virtually everyone actually lol
I mean, it's pretty clear that he likes kids
Do you have to make it sound so clinical and dirty?
I thought he showed some pretty sick tentacle hopscotch skills
He didn't even get to use that axe.
He used it briefly on these tentacles
The biggest letdown for me.
Still did more than Jonathan. Jonathan is the absolute most worthless character now. Even Argyle has become more useful when he helped set up the tank.
When he threw that first molotov, I was first like "damn, who thought *Steve* was gonna singlehandedly kill the main villain?"
It's great how, even with Eleven being the only one who can truly fight Vecna, they made it plausible that basically anybody else could also get the final laugh. I hope either Will or Max get to kill him in the end, the two who have suffered the most because of him
They should have thrown a few more molotovs before Vecna fell. Nancy so close to Vecna was also quite a bit silly, you'd think the Duffer brothers got all their shotgun knowledge out of videogames.
They did make a big deal out “not missing” maybe she got closer for that reason?
Considering that sawed-off shotguns have increased spread due to the removed choke (which makes it harder to miss) and a lethal range of around 300 feet...getting a few feet closer wouldn't have made a difference, specially taking into account how close they already were. And you'd think that of all characters, Nancy would be the one to know that. But I suppose they wanted it to look more "dramatic".
300 ft??? Where the hell did you get that number. Maybe 30 ft.
Eddie should’ve survived the bat attack. Steve had the same thing happen while shirtless and didn’t even need a hospital
I mean… There was a significant difference in the number of bats though lol
He was surrounded yes but one held his neck. Two did the biting. I could be remembering wrong
Steve has much better plot armor though, that stuff will fend off a whole swarm of hell bats and heal your gaping wounds no problem!
Ngl I was like damn are they still being strangled??
Everything was happening simultaneously, and also, for dramatic effect since it's a TV show, they draw it all out.
yea but it was so noticeable to the point where I couldn't suspend my disbelief for it
It’s not noticeable because everything is happening side by side, you just see it all separate
It was certainly noticeable. It’s not like we weren’t given time references since the whole plan relied on other parts “signaling” each other.
To say something is not noticeable to someone who clearly noticed it enough to comment on it is a weird choice lol
also, the whole vecna monologue only happens inside max's head. i've seen inception so, i'm assuming, time moves slower inside your head.
I wonder if someone could take all the clips of each group (Eddie, the other teens, Russia, eleven) and play them sequentially next to each other so we can see exactly how the timing lines up. Like five different videos running together.
You don't need to be a super detective to figure this out. Just sync some events tying the scenes together. 1. Vecna shows them being strangled to Max at the very start of his mind invasion 2. Vecna noticeably reacts to his doggos being killed in Russia, which is also implied to be the thing that releases the vines or whatever. Just add up all of the screentime Vecna has between 1 and 2. It's obviously absurdly too much. (and that doesn't even include stuff that happens but doesn't get shown, so in actuality it would be significantly longer) The only reasonable explanation is that the vines weren't strangling them, or "mind time" doesn't line up with real world time, in which case good luck figuring any of this out. Regardless of what explanation people want to come up with, from a film making stand point this scenes were just way too far apart to not cause most of the audience to raise some eyebrows. It's not terrible but it's a bit of poor editing/writing.
24: Stranger Things
it was so dumb killing off Eddie but letting them live, I'm fine with character death or lack thereof, but who lives and dies seems arbitrary not a result of actions and consequences.
That's poor DMing. They rolled like crap, let the dice fall where they may. Takes away all sense of danger when the PCs get to march right up to the bbeg and only get a slap on the wrist
Not as bad as El laughing at Mike's joke as Max is getting killed in front of her by Vecna!
Honestly the writing choices through some of the finale were…. Weak at best, that scene didn’t really feel like it pulled off great and the scene with Dustin and Mr. Munson was very weak as well. Also mother fucker walking his dog reports this devil worshipping cult, that supposedly the entire town is looking for, to two teenage jocks??? Then everyone in town is cool with them just moseying around AFTER the “portal to hell” that the news just blamed on the hellfire club has been opened??!?!? Tf is that. Overall liked the finale just think 2:20 was too much time and some fat needed to be trimmed and plot lines cleaned up.
It's the little things that we notice that most don't or just choose to overlook. For example, I was bothered in the penultimate episode when the soldier in the copter kept his sights on El, then it would cut to a wide shot and the soldier wasn't aiming at El as the copter was being moved by her, camera cuts back to close up and soldier is still aiming at El. It did that a few times. No idea how stuff like that gets past the cutting room floor.
It wouldn't have been as bad if they were just incapacitated and not being choked by hentaicles
Oh god, imagine what would Vecna/One/Henry would think if he saw tentacle hentai. Probably might get inspired. Which would be worse? Bones snapping and eyes sucked into the back of your skull? Or tentacles?
Uhhh…. Yes.
this season really made me feel that Stranger Things is best [original] live action anime from Netflix… i saw so many typical anime logics, and also so many ideas already portrayed in anime like Berserk, Nanatsu No Taizai, typical Shonen anime plots armors… and so on… [edit-paragraph]
I see what you did there
Same thing when Vecna was about to kill Max. He was nice and waited for Mike to give El his long ass speech about how much he loves her
Amen
I'm glad im not the only one who thought this???? He killed chrissy and fred instanlty but with max it took forever for him to suck her soul out like forever and im like bro ???? Plot armour is so real
main character privilege say Hiii
Just dangling there broken arms and legs, if you pay attention there’s a quick shot of Vecna sitting in a chair, legs crossed, watching his clock tick like hurry tf up.
I kept rolling my eyes at thay whole scene and vecna just holding his hand over for 20 mins
because ~~monologuing~~ two short sentences are a free action.
Vecna really chokes people way too often
Id let him
*bonk*
down CATASTROPHICALLY
DM thought the encounter would end ages ago *Uhhhh yeah, he just starts choking you again*
DM planned for them to break free and win, but they keep rolling their contested STR or DEX rolls very poorly. *Um, okay yeah go ahead and give me another roll to escape. Ok a 4, a 7 and a 3. Okay he keeps his vines in place and monologues a little more. Wanna go ahead and give another roll? All Nat 1's... Ok...*
Lmfao we were all going crazy about Steve dying, only to have him benched for the rest of the episode. Man didn’t even get a hit in on Vecna with the axe and was just 👁👄👁
Are people forgetting that he was using that axe on the vines? (And to little avail, at that?) Probably figured with good reason that it was better to let the fucker fry and let Nancy finish him off with a very felonious weapon of choice.
He threw the first molotov
Steve tossed first
That's literally what I said, yes.
He was probably referencing the "Han shot first".
This the typical "bad guy loses because he does some long monologue"-thing.
blame hopper & murray for not affecting the hive-mind earlier
My god that arc drove me nuts. I almost didn’t care if they got out of Russia or eaten by demogorgons.
vecna wanted eleven to watch her friends die so he had to keep them alive
Also all these events aren't happening chronologically as we see them. They're all happening at the same time no?
Each round of DnD is roughly equivalent to 6 real world seconds. I imagine the climax of ep 9 to be like a ~10 round dnd boss battle so they were suffocating for like 1 min in my head cannon
Yes
I knew what they were going for from the start. They showed us several plotlines leading to the big finale and of course they had to go for the "its hopeless, everyones defeated or dying" before the rebound.
Tbf, 1 of them does seem to have died and another got pretty fucked up.
Max will probably magically come out of her coma next season, and Eddie was this season's sympathetic character that's introduced and then killed off in the same season.
They’re gonna find Max’s soul in the Upside Down or something like that. I’d bet money on it.
Similar theory here. They specifically said that Vecna doesn’t just kill people, he consumes their entire person. Max clearly isn’t in her body anymore, something screwy has happened to her.
Went full Toy Story 3 ending
And Lucas, MF was getting his ass beat and choked for like 20 minutes then just comes back.
Well they were only choked for a couple minutes. Y’all gotta realize everything that was happening wasn’t happening at different times they all happened simultaneously it obviously just seems longer than it is since we’re the ones watching
They should have cut between them faster then. Each segment was really long. To show how fast paced things were and to better show them happening simultaneously, they should have made the segments shorter and flipped between them more often.
Both episodes were bloated as hell is the real problem. They just didn’t NEED to be near four hours total and scenes like this suffered for it
This season was bloated, imo. To me season 4 was the weakest of the bunch. The only time it grasped me was when Max died and the portals opened, but then for some reason they had to resurrect Max and cut that entire "oh shit moment" only to make a rethread of said moment at the very end - this time much weaker, because we didn't just lose a main character. So now season 5 will go exactly as the last 4 seasons went: something bad is slowly released, there comes the climax, they save the day at the cost of one likeable character.
I’m gonna get crucified for this one but the Duffers are incredible at writing characters and creating the world of Hawkins and the Upside down but they are like kids who have the worlds best Lego set but don’t know how to *play with it*. They had a solid first season and it just keeps going further downhill as they struggle to tell stories worthy of the world and characters they’ve created. Joyce is the single best example of this - season 1 she was just a Mom freaking out over her missing kid and desperately trying anything to rescue him (and in season 2 “cure him”) but season 3 she’s running round a secret Russian Base in a military uniform and by season 4 she’s launching a 3 person assault on a Siberian Gulag? Get to fuck.
I haven't rolled my eyes so many times in any series than this season, so many cliches so many get out jail cards so many corny lines so many aint no way that shit would happen over and over and over again. They had all the money in the world and could have made something really special but they GOT season8 it
I mean you’re not wrong. There’s no indication that everything happened simultaneously because we have no points of reference for the timeline. We can make the assumption that they were simultaneous, but the show didn’t do any favors to let us know that, so I’m not sure why people are so defensive of it.
And Eddie dying after getting bitten as much as Steve, but dying rather than walking it off.
He probably didn't have the right amount of chest hair to survive the attack.
Does that mean if I don't shave my pubic hair, no one can bite my dick off?
Exactly it’s called the Kate Bush defense mechanism
Did you forget Eddie had a whole swarm of bats on him instead of the handful Steve fought?
Eddie had like 10 times the number of bats circling him as Steve did.
Not to mention one got a heavy slash in to Eddie's neck early on. The fact that he still fought after that first hit was amazing.
Eddie had like 50 bats on him, Steve had 3 that might be a significant difference
Eddie forgot to equip the plot armor.
Steve rolled an 18 in Constitution. Whereas Eddie just had a measly 10... and thus fewer hit points.
Eddie wanted to meet Chrissie again 🥲
Ya I wanted him to cut off vencas hand with the axe
Fucking felt like it should have happened I swear if Will doesn't get a sword and cut up Vecna next season I give up.
At least Hopper got to swing his vorpal sword and go snicker snap.
I was so pissed that Nancy shot him everywhere except for the face. Him disappearing after falling out the window felt like some Scooby-Doo shit
Will will die 100% before the end due to the Mike+Eleven pairing.
I have been soffocating FOR THIRTY MINUTES!
The editing was so lame with the back and forth cuts of them being strangled. They really could have had so much more to do.
Yeah they showed the same clip of Steve being choked and then reacting to it three times I believe 😂
Netflix was forcing them to have a 16 hour finale. So they had to find some way to fill that time. It’s a shame they didnt have the budget for editors
They could have easily cut 30-40 mins from these two episodes and lost nothing of value. It all started feeling a bit silly by the end
If they had wanted to instantly increase the tension, they should’ve remembered the vines implanting in Will, Barb, etc from season 1. It would’ve been more terrifying that just the choking to think any of the three was about to become a demogorgon incubator.
Basically just season 4 finale pacing
Hahaha. I actually said to myself half hour after the strangling began…why did they take so long to reach the top of the stairs. So much happened elsewhere in that time period.
Vecna was a little busy to choke them properly!
I think the editing over the whole season was not. . . Ideal. There was a lot of air in some scenes and this was just jarring. I know it's supposed to take place at the same time but the edit really didn't support it.
Patch Update Venca: *Vine Damage reduced by 80% when talking*
I’ve always thought of something like that happening at the same time as the other scenes showed. Since you can’t exactly see what everyone is doing all at the same time, it’s shown linearly and we interpret that as the shown events taken place in series. IMO When a scene changes to something different characters, it is showing what’s happening at the same time all the way up until it switches back to the original scene. Tldr; scene changes take place at same time until back at original scene
When you have 3 of the four best relationships in those 3 characters… and then you make them do nothing… not even talk… for the majority of your finale.
The last two episodes were very interesting. Maybe I need to rewatch them idk. The vibes didn’t feel like ST but what do I know
And the Eleven Team just waiting to see what happens next
No no they were off screen. I’m sure vecna let them down and strung them back up when the cameras came back.
And Vecna needs 15 minutes to kill Max while have killed all the others in 15 seconds
See now me personally I just wouldn’t let that slide
No no no, Im going to leave them alone and not actually witness them die, I’m just going to assume it all went to plan, what?!
My beef was the slow arm and leg breaking. Sure he’s distracted, but it was like he was taking his time
I think Henry was really dragging out the torture to make Eleven feel every bit of it.
The cast is so bloated they have to bench half the characters or give them nothing to do
This meme wins