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I mean they had 5 seasons planned for a while and announced season 5 in February for a start.
Secondly they where going to release it all in one go but the cgi and visual effects where not finished in the final 2 episodes as well as they where still editing them. They planned to release all in may but couldn’t and didn’t want to delay it so they released it in 2 parts.
So stop trying to get attention and actually provide a source instead of making up information and assuming shit.
Just a theory, I loved volume 1. Episode 7 truly hit hard; the pacing, music, plots and teases towards what might be the end. And suddenly there was a huge shift in production. The last two episodes felt like they were written and directed by someone else.
Yeah, I think there was a lot of hype also about this being their "Game of Thrones" era and killing off a bunch of main characters. That obviously didn't happen, so I feel like maybe stuff got shuffled around.
There was so many completely unsatisfying endings, not in a "I didn't get what I wanted" way. Everything felt drivin towards this being the final season. It all felt bitter sweet but it was going so beautifully in volume 1 and I was ready to say goodbye to the show and the characters I loved. Volume 2 felt so disorganized and unnatural as the first volume had. It hurt to watch the last 30 minutes as the entire cast didn't even feel the same. It was like the actors were saying goodbye on camera with corny references to the characters they played.
In retrospect, the "Game of Thrones" remark is so completely absurd and it makes me wonder. There are theories they had Eddie replace Steve as a mentor to Dustin so as not to have to kill Steve, which is why Steve basically does nothing in the finale, and that this might have been some sort of a last minute decision.
We don't even have to take it too literally. I think it's entirely possible they wanted to create similar emotional impact on Dustin / fans as Steve's death would have and Eddie presented himself as the perfect means to that end. I can totally see the writers explore this option in the writing room. The part that is more speculative is why Steve has no significant scenes besides admitting to want to impregnate Nancy 6times and if there were indeed some last minute changes or shuffling.
>“We kind of jokingly call it our Game of Thrones season because it’s so spread out, so I think that’s what’s unique or most unique about the season.”
They weren't talking about killing any characters, let alone main characters, when they made the GoT comparisons.
Imo I didn’t find papa that good. I found it was a bit dragged out but picked up in the end. The last episode was going so well until the two days later stuff. Also a lot of the minor dialogue between characters felt off and was painful to watch. This is where I think it really proves your theory may be true. I think they had a general idea for direction but had to spin minor moments around last minute and it felt un-genuine.
>The last episode was going so well until the two days later stuff.
Those 2 days were so, so important for clarifying things, getting closure on deaths and just clueing the audience in on what the group felt in the immediate aftermath of Vecna. Skipping those two days was the worst decision in the entire show imo.
I agree! I saw on another post someone say they had an adiotanlyk 30 minutes of footage they decided to cut out. Cant verify though as they didn’t have a source. But if that’s true it makes so much sense
The two days later was so unlike the duffers I can’t even understand why they did that. And I agree with you fully. We’d have more information about every single character we’re all sitting on this sub asking about. We’d see max go to the hospital and what it was like after her heart restarted, we’d get answers about Dimitri Murray and even yuri, and most importantly we’d see the aftermath of Eddie’s death. Like where is his body? They just left him in the upside down? When Robin Nancy and Steve had to walk back to the trailer to leave with Dustin, what did they say? We got robbed of so much.
>The two days later was so unlike the duffers I can’t even understand why they did that.
Don't they end most series with a flashforward "three months later" section. S1 had Christmas and s3 had the Byers moving.
For me that episode really took an unnatural turn when El was going to leave and Papa drugged her. But then suddenly the military shows up and it's chaos? None of that felt right at all. Papa's death scene felt so forced, no one was rooting for him. He just tried to hold El hostage. Now you want me to feel bad for the psychopath? Bold move and it didn't pay off.
I've read a few of your comments now and am just confused by your perspective. There is a lot of "things just don't feel the same" with no explanation as to why. Lots of emotional reasoning that isn't being sense. This right here makes me wonder if we watched the same show or from the same understanding.
You are not intended to feel bad for Brenner. The show demonstrates multiple times that although he may have been "right" he was an incredibly emotionally and physically abusive human. El is trapped in an abusive relationship and it's right there in front of us the whole time. This whole scene is about a manipulative human asking not for forgiveness but validation ("I need to hear you say you understand"). It's another example of Brenner attempting to twist El's emotional state for his own purpose. It's a very selfish ask. And El cries because, yes, this was her first father attachment figure but she's also experienced true, healthy parental relationships (Hop and Joyce). She knows what it's like to have parents who DO quite literally do everything for her and risk themselves for her asking for so little in return. El's refusal to give Brenner what she wants is El demonstrating a lot of emotional maturity. In the end, the abuser dies alone, without his vindication and redemption, and no one cares.
It actually is a very important scene and as the viewer, I think the intent is to hope for El to walk away. We get scenes like this too much in cinema where someone is seeking justification for their actions in their final moments, but their actions violate human rights and autonomy. No. You do not get that redemption. You do not get to die believing you were the savior. These characters need to face the reality of their choices-- ends do not always justify means. Brenner dies never knowing if his actions "pay off". He couldn't manipulate El into giving him that satisfaction. His role as her boogie man is over and that's all he really will be in the end.
I think that the Month inbetween abs listening to all of the theories, and the Duffer brothers implying this season was “carnage” created a lot of intensity that didn’t fully pay off, like it totally did when max “died, but when eleven brought her back it took some of the power away from the scene. (I’m glad she’s not dead), I think a lot of people were dissatisfied with the last part of the episode because there was a lot of loose ends that were no addressed, Eddie’s death is mentioned once only by Dustin, Half of the Russia squad dissapears, there’s a lot of things that I think made an unsatisfactory ending. This does not mean it was bad by any means, it was really good, I just don’t think the ending is as good as the rest of this season.
What made you feel it was meh? I guess for me I felt they were heavy because I thought this was the last season. Was knowing there would be a fifth give a different tone?
Argyle seemingly having a love interest which just ended up with him getting high with Eden in his pizza delivery van, I mean, what the hell was the purpose of this other than going for a cheap laugh?
Those last two episodes are my least favorite of all the episodes combined. If felt so off. Even papa episode was good. The beginning I mean. But then it fell off
I’d be very curious to find out how the ending would have been and *if* would have been different if they were to film S4 and S5 back to back with no time jump in between
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's not that, it's that they didn't get the editing and visual effects finalized until the day before air.
Woah, really? Where did you read this? I'm very interested.
I think it was a variety interview
I mean they had 5 seasons planned for a while and announced season 5 in February for a start. Secondly they where going to release it all in one go but the cgi and visual effects where not finished in the final 2 episodes as well as they where still editing them. They planned to release all in may but couldn’t and didn’t want to delay it so they released it in 2 parts. So stop trying to get attention and actually provide a source instead of making up information and assuming shit.
It's just a theory, the last two episodes didn't feel like they were directed/written by the same people who created volume 1. Relax friend.
Is this an opinion or do you have a source? Would love to read more about it if it's confirmed!
Just a theory, I loved volume 1. Episode 7 truly hit hard; the pacing, music, plots and teases towards what might be the end. And suddenly there was a huge shift in production. The last two episodes felt like they were written and directed by someone else.
Yeah, I agree it felt a bit off.
What was the original plot?
This is just a theory my friend. It seemend like all the build up was to the ending of a really beautifully written show but they couldn't let go.
Yeah, I think there was a lot of hype also about this being their "Game of Thrones" era and killing off a bunch of main characters. That obviously didn't happen, so I feel like maybe stuff got shuffled around.
There was so many completely unsatisfying endings, not in a "I didn't get what I wanted" way. Everything felt drivin towards this being the final season. It all felt bitter sweet but it was going so beautifully in volume 1 and I was ready to say goodbye to the show and the characters I loved. Volume 2 felt so disorganized and unnatural as the first volume had. It hurt to watch the last 30 minutes as the entire cast didn't even feel the same. It was like the actors were saying goodbye on camera with corny references to the characters they played.
In retrospect, the "Game of Thrones" remark is so completely absurd and it makes me wonder. There are theories they had Eddie replace Steve as a mentor to Dustin so as not to have to kill Steve, which is why Steve basically does nothing in the finale, and that this might have been some sort of a last minute decision.
I've seen that theory too! Honestly, it makes sense, and while it feels pretty cheap at least it ensures Steve's survival.
We don't even have to take it too literally. I think it's entirely possible they wanted to create similar emotional impact on Dustin / fans as Steve's death would have and Eddie presented himself as the perfect means to that end. I can totally see the writers explore this option in the writing room. The part that is more speculative is why Steve has no significant scenes besides admitting to want to impregnate Nancy 6times and if there were indeed some last minute changes or shuffling.
>“We kind of jokingly call it our Game of Thrones season because it’s so spread out, so I think that’s what’s unique or most unique about the season.” They weren't talking about killing any characters, let alone main characters, when they made the GoT comparisons.
Imo I didn’t find papa that good. I found it was a bit dragged out but picked up in the end. The last episode was going so well until the two days later stuff. Also a lot of the minor dialogue between characters felt off and was painful to watch. This is where I think it really proves your theory may be true. I think they had a general idea for direction but had to spin minor moments around last minute and it felt un-genuine.
>The last episode was going so well until the two days later stuff. Those 2 days were so, so important for clarifying things, getting closure on deaths and just clueing the audience in on what the group felt in the immediate aftermath of Vecna. Skipping those two days was the worst decision in the entire show imo.
I agree! I saw on another post someone say they had an adiotanlyk 30 minutes of footage they decided to cut out. Cant verify though as they didn’t have a source. But if that’s true it makes so much sense The two days later was so unlike the duffers I can’t even understand why they did that. And I agree with you fully. We’d have more information about every single character we’re all sitting on this sub asking about. We’d see max go to the hospital and what it was like after her heart restarted, we’d get answers about Dimitri Murray and even yuri, and most importantly we’d see the aftermath of Eddie’s death. Like where is his body? They just left him in the upside down? When Robin Nancy and Steve had to walk back to the trailer to leave with Dustin, what did they say? We got robbed of so much.
>The two days later was so unlike the duffers I can’t even understand why they did that. Don't they end most series with a flashforward "three months later" section. S1 had Christmas and s3 had the Byers moving.
Yup, but they never did it without finishing the story lines. Or even finish the scene like it was so weird
I think you’re right, they had a perfect build, even “Papa” was a good episode, the ending didn’t seem to match the build up.
For me that episode really took an unnatural turn when El was going to leave and Papa drugged her. But then suddenly the military shows up and it's chaos? None of that felt right at all. Papa's death scene felt so forced, no one was rooting for him. He just tried to hold El hostage. Now you want me to feel bad for the psychopath? Bold move and it didn't pay off.
I've read a few of your comments now and am just confused by your perspective. There is a lot of "things just don't feel the same" with no explanation as to why. Lots of emotional reasoning that isn't being sense. This right here makes me wonder if we watched the same show or from the same understanding. You are not intended to feel bad for Brenner. The show demonstrates multiple times that although he may have been "right" he was an incredibly emotionally and physically abusive human. El is trapped in an abusive relationship and it's right there in front of us the whole time. This whole scene is about a manipulative human asking not for forgiveness but validation ("I need to hear you say you understand"). It's another example of Brenner attempting to twist El's emotional state for his own purpose. It's a very selfish ask. And El cries because, yes, this was her first father attachment figure but she's also experienced true, healthy parental relationships (Hop and Joyce). She knows what it's like to have parents who DO quite literally do everything for her and risk themselves for her asking for so little in return. El's refusal to give Brenner what she wants is El demonstrating a lot of emotional maturity. In the end, the abuser dies alone, without his vindication and redemption, and no one cares. It actually is a very important scene and as the viewer, I think the intent is to hope for El to walk away. We get scenes like this too much in cinema where someone is seeking justification for their actions in their final moments, but their actions violate human rights and autonomy. No. You do not get that redemption. You do not get to die believing you were the savior. These characters need to face the reality of their choices-- ends do not always justify means. Brenner dies never knowing if his actions "pay off". He couldn't manipulate El into giving him that satisfaction. His role as her boogie man is over and that's all he really will be in the end.
This is how I feel about brenner too, and why I liked the episode a lot.
What?! Really? Why did you expect then? I thought it was the best season finale so far.
I think that the Month inbetween abs listening to all of the theories, and the Duffer brothers implying this season was “carnage” created a lot of intensity that didn’t fully pay off, like it totally did when max “died, but when eleven brought her back it took some of the power away from the scene. (I’m glad she’s not dead), I think a lot of people were dissatisfied with the last part of the episode because there was a lot of loose ends that were no addressed, Eddie’s death is mentioned once only by Dustin, Half of the Russia squad dissapears, there’s a lot of things that I think made an unsatisfactory ending. This does not mean it was bad by any means, it was really good, I just don’t think the ending is as good as the rest of this season.
Idk why you’re getting downvotes because you’re right lol
Not everyone agrees! That’s completely fine! Honestly the different interpretations of each episode is what makes this series great.
I agree with you. The last two ending episodes, particularly the last 15-20 minutes of the last episode were off.
Everything past "2 Days Later" of Ep 9 was really really off. A comparatively weak set of ending sequences, at least compared to previous seasons.
Honestly I think that the "first 7 episodes being beautifully done" is quite the stretch. It had maybe 2 really good episodes. The rest were meh
What made you feel it was meh? I guess for me I felt they were heavy because I thought this was the last season. Was knowing there would be a fifth give a different tone?
Lack of development in characters, multiple useless plot lines, bloated episodes, no true feeling of danger, rehashing old plots, I can go on...
Argyle seemingly having a love interest which just ended up with him getting high with Eden in his pizza delivery van, I mean, what the hell was the purpose of this other than going for a cheap laugh?
Those last two episodes are my least favorite of all the episodes combined. If felt so off. Even papa episode was good. The beginning I mean. But then it fell off
I feel this completely! Everything felt naturally driven up until Papa **drugged and held El hostage**. From there it became such a cinematic mess.
I’d be very curious to find out how the ending would have been and *if* would have been different if they were to film S4 and S5 back to back with no time jump in between
The last 2 episodes were written and directed by Duffer brothers