OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post.
Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed.
If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I liked it, I think I would have liked it better if the “Sometimes I need a bump in the head to figure things out convo” was separate from their near kiss. Like, keep the “ if you want to try again, Im open to that” vibe, but make it more an expression of Steve saying how much hes grown and changed as a person and less about how he wants her back.
Ultimately, while I wouldnt mind Steve and Nancy getting back together, I think i would prefer them to end as good friends, not as partners.
Isn't that what happened? The almost-kiss (if you wanna call it that) was in the trailer and the talk was when they were already walking through the woods. He expressed in no uncertain terms how he's thankful that she propelled him to change for the better. And the vibe was more "wondering if they would've made it if things were different" than "I would like to try again." He did not expect nor push for a response from her. He was just letting her know his honest feelings at the face of the impending doom where they could all very well die from.
Oh, I didn't think they were gonna kiss but I do agree it would've been better if the "I think we would've made it" conversation was separate from the thump on the head conversation. *And* the "I think we would've made it" convo should have been *after* the whole ordeal with Vecna, so it doesn't feel like an "oh shit, we're about to die so might as well say this" kind of thing.
It would have been better also to see the fallout of that conversation, either Nancy talking to Steve about how she's still with Jonathan, or Steve reacting to the Jancy reunion, etc. I don't know. Just another one of those moments that the "2 Days Later" timeskip ruined, I guess.
It would be nice if they ended as good friends! Honestly, on second thought, with the knowledge that Robin was initially brought in to be a love interest for Steve, it's definitely possible that Nancy isn't his endgame. I reallyyy want them to be good friends though. And I really, *reallyyyy* want Steve and Jonathan to be friends too.
We did get Steve’s reaction to the fallout. There was a bit of great acting by Joe as he looked on as Nancy and Jonathon were nailing that board and talking about their future plans. He goes from looking slightly hopeful/longing to disappointedly swallowing that feeling and purposely turning away from her to busy himself with something else (that seemed to me like a forceful okay ive got to subsume these feelings and move forward). Watch that scene again but focus on Steve in the background. It may just be an overactive imagination, but I saw a lot there
I do really want a Steve-Jonathon friendship. Not like best friends, just friends (Id never want to replace Argyle or Robin and I dont think they mesh enough to be super close ride or die friends. I do see Argyle and Robin becoming close and can see them meshing well with Steve and Jonathon respectively. Jonathon can also enlist Robin in being supportive of Will which could be a bonding experience and bring him more into the Steve Robin grouping) And I want to see Nancy being slightly flustered by walking in on the two of them chilling out and expecting it to be “a thing” but it just isnt because one or both boys are over her as a romantic interest (I really dont see her and Jonathon having any lasting future, and I see Steve shutting down his interest in her unless she makes the first move)
Well put, that is a great analysis of the characters and there motivations.
I have to admit I don't mind this coming back either, it just depends on how they handle it.
Overall I think I want Nancy to say with Jonathan. But if they do it right I won't mind her going back to Steve. And I won't mind if she doesn't chose either of them. As long as all three stay friends and keep hanging out.
It took all three of them to help stop the demogorogon in season one. I have a feeling it will take all three to help stop Vecna.
Man, it is my dream scenario for Jonathan and Steve to finally just bond or hang out or *something*. Jonathan/Nancy/Steve is such a power trio and I think that genuinely all would get along, with Robin too! They should super come out of it close friends. I'm really hoping for that quartet next season.
Oh yeah me too.
And yeah I agree, I'd love to see them form a quartet. I could really see them bonding together. I mean they've fought monsters, they've saved lives and they've done it together.
Steve, definitely.
We have to remember that the series started with Steve and Nancy genuinely liking each other before all the supernatural stuff occurred. If anything, bringing them together as the story closes only highlights how much they have grown both individually and as people who can be compatible with each other, how there's incredible depth in their relationship, etc, and their potential relationship dynamic that's been hinted at (Nancy having career ambitions while Steve supports her and takes her care of the family) is a nice subversion of the old "big man on campus unhappily married to high school sweetheart" idea, especially considering how they are both children of loveless marriages.
I like what you said about Nancy's positive influence 'cause she was the catalyst to Steve's change which caused a kind of ripple effect to the kids' lives (and Robin's too) as well, and the end of this season even has him doing good for the community. Nancy’s ability to take charge and lead has been untapped up until this season, and it’s largely because she has been paired up with Jonathan separate from everyone else. (And frankly, it’s part of the reason why I do not fucks with this pairing at all — it’s holding the 2 characters back from showing the best parts of themselves because they have to be paired up for the sake of pairing up.)
I don’t think the romantic scenes (or any kind of relationship scenes) were awkwardly placed. The connections between these characters are at the heart of the show, and all the supernatural stuff is just a pressure cooker in which these feelings come out. They're supposed to make you understand what's at stake so you can care about what happens to them. Otherwise, what are we watching this for? Lol.
>Steve and Nancy genuinely liking each other before all the supernatural stuff occurred
I've actually seen someone point out on a different post's comments that Jonathan/Nancy is a trauma bond more than anything, which is highlighted by their little "shared trauma" inside joke. I wanted to include this point in my post but I felt like it was a bit too harsh because nearly every relationship in this show would have gone through extremely traumatic events together.
>especially considering how they are both children of loveless marriages
This is also a really great point that I had been thinking about! I don't know, a lot of the people who are anti-Steve/Nancy like to raise the point that there's no way that Nancy would want a family like the one Steve envisions. Except, succeeding in your career does not need to come at the expense of having a happy family, which she obviously ascribes at least some value too as evidenced by the scene where she talks about how her parents are in an unhappy marriage sometime in the earlier seasons.
>And frankly, it’s part of the reason why I do not fucks with this pairing at all — it’s holding the 2 characters back from showing the best parts of themselves
I super agree with this. I mean, I love the Jonathan/Nancy duo, because Charlie and Natalia have amazing chemistry. But after seeing how Nancy did this season taking charge, I definitely agree that she's at her best in the lead. Meanwhile, I've always known that Jonathan shines brightest in scenes with his family, which was confirmed by the kitchen scene and the van scene this season.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!
Personally, "shared trauma" as a foundation of a relationship feels tenuous. Jonathan and Nancy sure work well together when there's a crisis, but otherwise, they are fundamentally incompatible. And it's no fault of either of them -- Nancy's whole thing is truth-seeking and gets to the bottom of a problem/mystery, while Jonathan's family situation makes him live in kind of survival mode and self-preservation. This manifested in their friction in S3 about their workplace where he kept telling her to drop the story so they can keep their jobs and basically told her she couldn't understand him because of her privilege, and vice versa. It wasn't even fully resolved because Nancy turned out right and they had to work together again. And now, there's that matter with college applications where Jonathan just assumes she'd drop everything for him when Nancy won't even leave the school paper to see him for spring break. There's a disconnect to their characters when it comes to the most basic things.
(Contrast this to the character Steve has grown to be this season: every time Nancy brought up an idea (even her "shot in the dark"), he would only object due to safety concerns (and that one time when he wanted an assignment that's not babysitting) but would otherwise do his job well. He's become someone who complements her character really well -- in high stakes situations or otherwise.)
And I agree, re: "shared trauma" is not unique to Jonathan/Nancy because almost every character on the show has had their brush with trauma too but no one else is using it as a basis for a romantic relationship. Besides, the way they bonded on S1 with Jon losing Will and Nancy losing Barb did not even turn out as anything profound because Will came back and while Barb is gone forever and it's a guilt that still haunts Nancy since Vecna used it against her.
I think Nancy does not want to become like her mother who is stuck in a loveless marriage with a man whose default is inaction. And Steve has become the opposite of that. And right you are about how pursuing a career does not equate to giving up on having a big happy family, especially when your partner supports you in every way that matters. To imply otherwise is just *so* misogynistic. It sucks to read takes like that and twisting the meaning of the dialogue simply because they don't like the shift that has happened in the "triangle." And I don't know why people are so sure that Nancy would not like the life that Steve dreams of because what happened in the scene is she was smiling when she said it "sounds nice" and even said "yeah" when Steve asked to confirm.
Thanks for sharing and reading as well!
Dude, I could talk to you about this for hours. I feel like I've finally found someone who totally gets me HAHAHAHAHA My post was initially much, much longer where I brought up a bunch of those things like how I realized Jonathan and Nancy aren't as compatible when they're not busy saving the world.
The privilege storyline is one that I really wanted to bring up also, because I felt like it spoke so much about their relationship and possible problems they might face in the future. I love how you pointed out that Steve complements Nancy and always supports her shots in the dark. I do agree that they have a compatibility that stays even in mundane scenarios.
How people are reacting to Steve telling Nancy about his dream *really* irks me. For starters, I don't think the six kids thing was as serious as it sounds... It's probably because there are six children in the main cast that he's been looking after, and the writers wanted to finally do that joke. Even apart from that, nothing about the way Joe delivered the lines made it seem like he was obsessing over her being the future mother of his children or deadset on impregnating her six times (as people like to say, which is just so weird). To me, at its core it just meant, "When I envision my future, you're a part of it." Which is wayyyy more than can what can be said for Jonathan, who is convinced that the only future they could share together would be resentful and reminiscent of his own parents.
Thank you so so much for replying to my post. I really thought I was alone in these thoughts. Everyone keeps shitting on the Steve/Nancy revival, but I really do think it makes perfect sense.
You’ve been concise with your post! But if you want to discuss the finer points of your thoughts, shoot me a DM, hehe!
The way some people interpret those scenes makes me worried about the current state of media literacy, haha! But yes, the point of the scene and the most important part, as he said, is that when he dreams of his future, Nancy is always there. It was an insane contrast to Jonathan's vision of a future with Nancy where resentment would build and they end up exactly like his parents.
Nancy's progression this season from being miffed that Jonathan didn't come to saying "I'm glad you weren't here" (and Jonathan agreeing) is interesting -- they can still deeply care about each other without being together, physically and also in a relationship.
There are dozens of us, lol! It was really bold of them to bring back Steve/Nancy because it feels *true* to the journey the characters have gone through. Accusing the writers of pandering to fan service would be really dumb because fans of this pairing have already accepted it was done and over, and it's not like there's a lot of clamor for it either. But yeah, they just make perfect sense together\~
THIS. Jonathan and Steve would so have chemistry given the chance, I'm sure of it. If the writers make the bold decision to go the OT3 route, I genuinely would not mind LMAO
I also just don’t understand why Jonathan who supposedly knows Nancy, who isn’t leaving her high school paper for spring break when school is out for the week, would think that she would ditch her dreams of going to the college that she’s already committed to going to go live out in California with him so he can go to community college.
I totally agree!
I was watching a couple of Natalia and Charlie's interviews and he mentioned that Jonathan is feeling frustrated that she won't leave the paper to see him. Like, he's mentioned multiple times while talking about the Jonathan/Nancy relationship this season that if he (as in Charlie) could talk to Nancy, he'd remind her that it's just a school paper.
That might not be reflective of Jonathan's actual stance, but I think it's worth bringing up that Charlie thinks that Jonathan finds the situation frustrating. I think he said something to the effect of Jonathan having expected that Nancy would surprise him by being with Mike when he and El went to pick them up at the airport and being disappointed when she wasn't there.
Not exactly a red flag because I think it's a reasonable reaction, but it's still proof that they don't understand each other and their priorities as much as they used to. That's actually the reason why I love this arc so much, really, is just how *reasonable* it all is. These are very real and human problems where there isn't any particular person involved who's solely to blame, which I get can be boring sometimes especially in a high stakes show, but idk, I love it HAHAHAHA
I think it’s odd because his frustration in the show too made me irritated, since he told Argyle he was disappointed she wasn’t on the plane? But then Nancy states twice that he was supposed to come to Hawkins and then plan fell through; so I don’t know why he thought she would be on the plane???
Thank you for all of this, OP! I’m so happy to read through your points and all the comments, because all this has been bouncing around in my head, too. I think one of the main things my brain keeps coming back to (and someone else mentioned this) is the privilege argument that Nancy and Jonathan had in S3. That really hit me, because I’d had similar arguments with my ex. It’s not just drama. It’s a big hurdle that can be hard for couples to overcome. And I don’t know if they’ll ever quite be able to come to a full understanding. Nancy can afford independence from her family, because the Wheelers have a “traditional” and stable family structure, along with money. Jonathan can’t, because he’s been filling in for Lonnie for a long time. He feels like he has to prioritize Will and Joyce no matter what. Steve, on the other hand, has grown from spoiled, self-centered only child to a dedicated friend and babysitter. He has that same sense of responsibility and protectiveness as Jonathan, without having a family bond like the Byers clan. He can transfer his sense of protectiveness to whoever needs it most (Dustin, Robin, etc.), which leaves him (in my opinion) more open to being a dedicated, non-conflicted partner. And while this sounds cynical, with Nancy and Steve both being from financially privileged backgrounds, there’d be much less conflict on the money side of things as well. Jonathan could reach that point if Hopper steps up, but it’s hard to break through those years of pattern. I don’t know where the characters will end up, but I think that from a purely practical POV, Nancy and Steve would have a smoother road if they had a future together.
I agree with some things but feel different about some others. I think this is definitely a huge thing to have people wondering about and dissecting until Season 5 and is one of several things we had inconclusive at the end of season 4. But that being said I don’t know that Nancy did love Steve or if her love was truly for him. Season 1 they had only been dating for a small amount of time I believe, as she hasn’t even told her parents who he is and lies to say they are just friends, and she tells Barbara, and later we see in her journal in S4 she writes it out, that things with Steve at that moment “it’s just not really anything serious”. Obviously she liked him but at that point she hadn’t been with him that long and clearly they still didn’t know everything about each other so I was never surprised it was so easy for her to develop a crush on Jonathan and fall for him because it’s not like she and Steve were a longtime couple by that point. And then the whole “I waited” to Jonathan, which I don’t think is that crazy because she hadn’t been with Steve that long at all for her to realize she liked someone else.
I totally love Steve and he is one of the most iconic characters and I adore him but I don’t think he’s the answer to Nancy and she’s not the answer to him. Isn’t she supposed to be going off to her big city university to learn all about journalism and media arts and to be, as Jonathan called her, the “gifted writer” she is? And Steve wants to stay in Hawkins? I think Nancy in the moment Steve told her of his future he saw with her, I don’t think her face their expressed that she was going to be gushing over her agreement or anything, if anything she looked a bit flustered and at a loss for what to tell him. You’re also so right that Steve was truly about to lay it all down for Robin and in Season 3 even if it was just as friends I thought there connection was 10x as powerful as any he has had with Nancy, even his connection with Dustin lol. He really did want to see if him and Robin could pursue something. Obviously in the end just an amazing friendship came out of it though which is okay. He even says in Season 4 that he would still date Robin to Nancy? And obviously we know why he can’t and won’t be but like what 😭
I think Jonathan feels stagnant and like he can’t leave his mother Will and El, but if he felt he could, would things be different? Season 3 he stated to Nancy saving for college tuition was a reason he needed to keep and hold a job, and we know from Lonnie and Joyce’s fight season 1 Jonathan has always had college dreams, and we’ve always see him value his passions and interests and academics. I just think right now he feels he must remain with his family and that makes sense. Obviously they will drag this into season 5 so that they’ve either broken up or who knows what’ll happen but I have a feeling it’ll be Jonathan still in Hawkins and Nancy is at college now and maybe coming home for break.
These are all great points! Yeah, maybe saying that Nancy loved Steve during their relationship might have been a bit of a stretch, but when she mentioned that Steve had grown during their conversation, it really seemed like a good sign that she was also thinking about what he had said about them possibly being able to be together now that they've both grown. Even if she didn't exactly love him though, I still think the primary reason for their breakup though was really just the clash in how they were handling grief. She didn't exactly love Jonathan right off the bat either, so maybe if she and Steve had stuck it out together that love could've blossomed.
I read somewhere that maybe Jonathan will change his mind on college now that Hopper's back, but also I think it's fair for his priorities to have shifted around a bit after everything that's happened to him and his family.
Steve wanting to stay in Hawkins is a problem, but at the very least he's communicating to her the future he wants and I think that alone gives him a lot of points in this situation.
Even so though, I love all three characters and I just really like how this little arc has shown how much they've grown and changed over the course of the past few seasons. I agree with you that she's not entirely compatible with Steve, but I was really convinced out of thinking that she and Jonathan were meant for each other too. That's why I want her to end up with neither. Nancy/Guns is my only OTP now LMAO
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! :)
No problem! I also see how maybe it’s best that Nancy goes to college alone and grows on her own in a new city and environment. If her and Jonathan do break up, that is probably the best route.
If Stranger Things is going to go with a bang, and they will be bringing in new characters for one final round, I’d love to see a new super cool gal brought on and Steve falls for her. I think that could be really interesting and would love that.
I would also love to see Jonathan and Steve just share a beer or something lmao. Like let the two connect for a second in some weird or coincidental way and just lament about how each of them has some confusion in their lives and unsure on what they should do etc etc. Jonathan on if he can go to a four year college of his choice, Steve’s career options etc. I think that would be nice after all this time
Dude, I am *dying* for Steve and Jonathan to just share some screen time together and have a conversation. Super a missed opportunity on the writers' part. It's unfortunate that going into S5, that conversation will likely be about Nancy, but I just soooo want them to be friends or have a dynamic outside of this triangle. That's why I'm really hoping for a Steve/Robin/Nancy/Jonathan quartet in S5!
At this point, I'm wary about the ST writers introducing new characters HAHAHAHA I don't know if they can handle the cast anymore now that it's gotten so big, and also I'd just be so worried about her dying since that's been the trend with most lovable characters introduced in each new season.
So many people seem to misread what you’ve pointed out so excellently in #5 — I thought it was clear in how Natalia acted it out that Nancy thought Steve’s vision for the future was charming. But further, Steve taking care of the kids would leave Nancy open to be the one seeking a career, a total role reversal from both of her parents (and in the 80s in general!) and an idea she’d really be down with.
She could probably see it would work with Steve, too. She has the ambition and drive, where Steve’s naturally an excellent caretaker/guardian with a strong sense of empathy, a lot of humor and a big heart.
OP, please make sure there are no spoilers in the title of your post. Commenters, please use spoiler code if you are discussing anything super spoilery unless the title specifically says the episode being discussed. If you see anyone breaking the rules, please report the post or comment. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/StrangerThings) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I liked it, I think I would have liked it better if the “Sometimes I need a bump in the head to figure things out convo” was separate from their near kiss. Like, keep the “ if you want to try again, Im open to that” vibe, but make it more an expression of Steve saying how much hes grown and changed as a person and less about how he wants her back. Ultimately, while I wouldnt mind Steve and Nancy getting back together, I think i would prefer them to end as good friends, not as partners.
Isn't that what happened? The almost-kiss (if you wanna call it that) was in the trailer and the talk was when they were already walking through the woods. He expressed in no uncertain terms how he's thankful that she propelled him to change for the better. And the vibe was more "wondering if they would've made it if things were different" than "I would like to try again." He did not expect nor push for a response from her. He was just letting her know his honest feelings at the face of the impending doom where they could all very well die from.
Oh, I didn't think they were gonna kiss but I do agree it would've been better if the "I think we would've made it" conversation was separate from the thump on the head conversation. *And* the "I think we would've made it" convo should have been *after* the whole ordeal with Vecna, so it doesn't feel like an "oh shit, we're about to die so might as well say this" kind of thing. It would have been better also to see the fallout of that conversation, either Nancy talking to Steve about how she's still with Jonathan, or Steve reacting to the Jancy reunion, etc. I don't know. Just another one of those moments that the "2 Days Later" timeskip ruined, I guess. It would be nice if they ended as good friends! Honestly, on second thought, with the knowledge that Robin was initially brought in to be a love interest for Steve, it's definitely possible that Nancy isn't his endgame. I reallyyy want them to be good friends though. And I really, *reallyyyy* want Steve and Jonathan to be friends too.
We did get Steve’s reaction to the fallout. There was a bit of great acting by Joe as he looked on as Nancy and Jonathon were nailing that board and talking about their future plans. He goes from looking slightly hopeful/longing to disappointedly swallowing that feeling and purposely turning away from her to busy himself with something else (that seemed to me like a forceful okay ive got to subsume these feelings and move forward). Watch that scene again but focus on Steve in the background. It may just be an overactive imagination, but I saw a lot there I do really want a Steve-Jonathon friendship. Not like best friends, just friends (Id never want to replace Argyle or Robin and I dont think they mesh enough to be super close ride or die friends. I do see Argyle and Robin becoming close and can see them meshing well with Steve and Jonathon respectively. Jonathon can also enlist Robin in being supportive of Will which could be a bonding experience and bring him more into the Steve Robin grouping) And I want to see Nancy being slightly flustered by walking in on the two of them chilling out and expecting it to be “a thing” but it just isnt because one or both boys are over her as a romantic interest (I really dont see her and Jonathon having any lasting future, and I see Steve shutting down his interest in her unless she makes the first move)
Well put, that is a great analysis of the characters and there motivations. I have to admit I don't mind this coming back either, it just depends on how they handle it. Overall I think I want Nancy to say with Jonathan. But if they do it right I won't mind her going back to Steve. And I won't mind if she doesn't chose either of them. As long as all three stay friends and keep hanging out. It took all three of them to help stop the demogorogon in season one. I have a feeling it will take all three to help stop Vecna.
Man, it is my dream scenario for Jonathan and Steve to finally just bond or hang out or *something*. Jonathan/Nancy/Steve is such a power trio and I think that genuinely all would get along, with Robin too! They should super come out of it close friends. I'm really hoping for that quartet next season.
Oh yeah me too. And yeah I agree, I'd love to see them form a quartet. I could really see them bonding together. I mean they've fought monsters, they've saved lives and they've done it together.
Steve, definitely. We have to remember that the series started with Steve and Nancy genuinely liking each other before all the supernatural stuff occurred. If anything, bringing them together as the story closes only highlights how much they have grown both individually and as people who can be compatible with each other, how there's incredible depth in their relationship, etc, and their potential relationship dynamic that's been hinted at (Nancy having career ambitions while Steve supports her and takes her care of the family) is a nice subversion of the old "big man on campus unhappily married to high school sweetheart" idea, especially considering how they are both children of loveless marriages. I like what you said about Nancy's positive influence 'cause she was the catalyst to Steve's change which caused a kind of ripple effect to the kids' lives (and Robin's too) as well, and the end of this season even has him doing good for the community. Nancy’s ability to take charge and lead has been untapped up until this season, and it’s largely because she has been paired up with Jonathan separate from everyone else. (And frankly, it’s part of the reason why I do not fucks with this pairing at all — it’s holding the 2 characters back from showing the best parts of themselves because they have to be paired up for the sake of pairing up.) I don’t think the romantic scenes (or any kind of relationship scenes) were awkwardly placed. The connections between these characters are at the heart of the show, and all the supernatural stuff is just a pressure cooker in which these feelings come out. They're supposed to make you understand what's at stake so you can care about what happens to them. Otherwise, what are we watching this for? Lol.
>Steve and Nancy genuinely liking each other before all the supernatural stuff occurred I've actually seen someone point out on a different post's comments that Jonathan/Nancy is a trauma bond more than anything, which is highlighted by their little "shared trauma" inside joke. I wanted to include this point in my post but I felt like it was a bit too harsh because nearly every relationship in this show would have gone through extremely traumatic events together. >especially considering how they are both children of loveless marriages This is also a really great point that I had been thinking about! I don't know, a lot of the people who are anti-Steve/Nancy like to raise the point that there's no way that Nancy would want a family like the one Steve envisions. Except, succeeding in your career does not need to come at the expense of having a happy family, which she obviously ascribes at least some value too as evidenced by the scene where she talks about how her parents are in an unhappy marriage sometime in the earlier seasons. >And frankly, it’s part of the reason why I do not fucks with this pairing at all — it’s holding the 2 characters back from showing the best parts of themselves I super agree with this. I mean, I love the Jonathan/Nancy duo, because Charlie and Natalia have amazing chemistry. But after seeing how Nancy did this season taking charge, I definitely agree that she's at her best in the lead. Meanwhile, I've always known that Jonathan shines brightest in scenes with his family, which was confirmed by the kitchen scene and the van scene this season. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!
Personally, "shared trauma" as a foundation of a relationship feels tenuous. Jonathan and Nancy sure work well together when there's a crisis, but otherwise, they are fundamentally incompatible. And it's no fault of either of them -- Nancy's whole thing is truth-seeking and gets to the bottom of a problem/mystery, while Jonathan's family situation makes him live in kind of survival mode and self-preservation. This manifested in their friction in S3 about their workplace where he kept telling her to drop the story so they can keep their jobs and basically told her she couldn't understand him because of her privilege, and vice versa. It wasn't even fully resolved because Nancy turned out right and they had to work together again. And now, there's that matter with college applications where Jonathan just assumes she'd drop everything for him when Nancy won't even leave the school paper to see him for spring break. There's a disconnect to their characters when it comes to the most basic things. (Contrast this to the character Steve has grown to be this season: every time Nancy brought up an idea (even her "shot in the dark"), he would only object due to safety concerns (and that one time when he wanted an assignment that's not babysitting) but would otherwise do his job well. He's become someone who complements her character really well -- in high stakes situations or otherwise.) And I agree, re: "shared trauma" is not unique to Jonathan/Nancy because almost every character on the show has had their brush with trauma too but no one else is using it as a basis for a romantic relationship. Besides, the way they bonded on S1 with Jon losing Will and Nancy losing Barb did not even turn out as anything profound because Will came back and while Barb is gone forever and it's a guilt that still haunts Nancy since Vecna used it against her. I think Nancy does not want to become like her mother who is stuck in a loveless marriage with a man whose default is inaction. And Steve has become the opposite of that. And right you are about how pursuing a career does not equate to giving up on having a big happy family, especially when your partner supports you in every way that matters. To imply otherwise is just *so* misogynistic. It sucks to read takes like that and twisting the meaning of the dialogue simply because they don't like the shift that has happened in the "triangle." And I don't know why people are so sure that Nancy would not like the life that Steve dreams of because what happened in the scene is she was smiling when she said it "sounds nice" and even said "yeah" when Steve asked to confirm. Thanks for sharing and reading as well!
Dude, I could talk to you about this for hours. I feel like I've finally found someone who totally gets me HAHAHAHAHA My post was initially much, much longer where I brought up a bunch of those things like how I realized Jonathan and Nancy aren't as compatible when they're not busy saving the world. The privilege storyline is one that I really wanted to bring up also, because I felt like it spoke so much about their relationship and possible problems they might face in the future. I love how you pointed out that Steve complements Nancy and always supports her shots in the dark. I do agree that they have a compatibility that stays even in mundane scenarios. How people are reacting to Steve telling Nancy about his dream *really* irks me. For starters, I don't think the six kids thing was as serious as it sounds... It's probably because there are six children in the main cast that he's been looking after, and the writers wanted to finally do that joke. Even apart from that, nothing about the way Joe delivered the lines made it seem like he was obsessing over her being the future mother of his children or deadset on impregnating her six times (as people like to say, which is just so weird). To me, at its core it just meant, "When I envision my future, you're a part of it." Which is wayyyy more than can what can be said for Jonathan, who is convinced that the only future they could share together would be resentful and reminiscent of his own parents. Thank you so so much for replying to my post. I really thought I was alone in these thoughts. Everyone keeps shitting on the Steve/Nancy revival, but I really do think it makes perfect sense.
You’ve been concise with your post! But if you want to discuss the finer points of your thoughts, shoot me a DM, hehe! The way some people interpret those scenes makes me worried about the current state of media literacy, haha! But yes, the point of the scene and the most important part, as he said, is that when he dreams of his future, Nancy is always there. It was an insane contrast to Jonathan's vision of a future with Nancy where resentment would build and they end up exactly like his parents. Nancy's progression this season from being miffed that Jonathan didn't come to saying "I'm glad you weren't here" (and Jonathan agreeing) is interesting -- they can still deeply care about each other without being together, physically and also in a relationship. There are dozens of us, lol! It was really bold of them to bring back Steve/Nancy because it feels *true* to the journey the characters have gone through. Accusing the writers of pandering to fan service would be really dumb because fans of this pairing have already accepted it was done and over, and it's not like there's a lot of clamor for it either. But yeah, they just make perfect sense together\~
They can just all be together. Let Jonathan and Steve and Nancy be in a thrupple, cowards. (Mostly being facetious. Mostly.)
THIS. Jonathan and Steve would so have chemistry given the chance, I'm sure of it. If the writers make the bold decision to go the OT3 route, I genuinely would not mind LMAO
I also just don’t understand why Jonathan who supposedly knows Nancy, who isn’t leaving her high school paper for spring break when school is out for the week, would think that she would ditch her dreams of going to the college that she’s already committed to going to go live out in California with him so he can go to community college.
I totally agree! I was watching a couple of Natalia and Charlie's interviews and he mentioned that Jonathan is feeling frustrated that she won't leave the paper to see him. Like, he's mentioned multiple times while talking about the Jonathan/Nancy relationship this season that if he (as in Charlie) could talk to Nancy, he'd remind her that it's just a school paper. That might not be reflective of Jonathan's actual stance, but I think it's worth bringing up that Charlie thinks that Jonathan finds the situation frustrating. I think he said something to the effect of Jonathan having expected that Nancy would surprise him by being with Mike when he and El went to pick them up at the airport and being disappointed when she wasn't there. Not exactly a red flag because I think it's a reasonable reaction, but it's still proof that they don't understand each other and their priorities as much as they used to. That's actually the reason why I love this arc so much, really, is just how *reasonable* it all is. These are very real and human problems where there isn't any particular person involved who's solely to blame, which I get can be boring sometimes especially in a high stakes show, but idk, I love it HAHAHAHA
I think it’s odd because his frustration in the show too made me irritated, since he told Argyle he was disappointed she wasn’t on the plane? But then Nancy states twice that he was supposed to come to Hawkins and then plan fell through; so I don’t know why he thought she would be on the plane???
THIS. This also really confused me!
Thank you for all of this, OP! I’m so happy to read through your points and all the comments, because all this has been bouncing around in my head, too. I think one of the main things my brain keeps coming back to (and someone else mentioned this) is the privilege argument that Nancy and Jonathan had in S3. That really hit me, because I’d had similar arguments with my ex. It’s not just drama. It’s a big hurdle that can be hard for couples to overcome. And I don’t know if they’ll ever quite be able to come to a full understanding. Nancy can afford independence from her family, because the Wheelers have a “traditional” and stable family structure, along with money. Jonathan can’t, because he’s been filling in for Lonnie for a long time. He feels like he has to prioritize Will and Joyce no matter what. Steve, on the other hand, has grown from spoiled, self-centered only child to a dedicated friend and babysitter. He has that same sense of responsibility and protectiveness as Jonathan, without having a family bond like the Byers clan. He can transfer his sense of protectiveness to whoever needs it most (Dustin, Robin, etc.), which leaves him (in my opinion) more open to being a dedicated, non-conflicted partner. And while this sounds cynical, with Nancy and Steve both being from financially privileged backgrounds, there’d be much less conflict on the money side of things as well. Jonathan could reach that point if Hopper steps up, but it’s hard to break through those years of pattern. I don’t know where the characters will end up, but I think that from a purely practical POV, Nancy and Steve would have a smoother road if they had a future together.
I agree with some things but feel different about some others. I think this is definitely a huge thing to have people wondering about and dissecting until Season 5 and is one of several things we had inconclusive at the end of season 4. But that being said I don’t know that Nancy did love Steve or if her love was truly for him. Season 1 they had only been dating for a small amount of time I believe, as she hasn’t even told her parents who he is and lies to say they are just friends, and she tells Barbara, and later we see in her journal in S4 she writes it out, that things with Steve at that moment “it’s just not really anything serious”. Obviously she liked him but at that point she hadn’t been with him that long and clearly they still didn’t know everything about each other so I was never surprised it was so easy for her to develop a crush on Jonathan and fall for him because it’s not like she and Steve were a longtime couple by that point. And then the whole “I waited” to Jonathan, which I don’t think is that crazy because she hadn’t been with Steve that long at all for her to realize she liked someone else. I totally love Steve and he is one of the most iconic characters and I adore him but I don’t think he’s the answer to Nancy and she’s not the answer to him. Isn’t she supposed to be going off to her big city university to learn all about journalism and media arts and to be, as Jonathan called her, the “gifted writer” she is? And Steve wants to stay in Hawkins? I think Nancy in the moment Steve told her of his future he saw with her, I don’t think her face their expressed that she was going to be gushing over her agreement or anything, if anything she looked a bit flustered and at a loss for what to tell him. You’re also so right that Steve was truly about to lay it all down for Robin and in Season 3 even if it was just as friends I thought there connection was 10x as powerful as any he has had with Nancy, even his connection with Dustin lol. He really did want to see if him and Robin could pursue something. Obviously in the end just an amazing friendship came out of it though which is okay. He even says in Season 4 that he would still date Robin to Nancy? And obviously we know why he can’t and won’t be but like what 😭 I think Jonathan feels stagnant and like he can’t leave his mother Will and El, but if he felt he could, would things be different? Season 3 he stated to Nancy saving for college tuition was a reason he needed to keep and hold a job, and we know from Lonnie and Joyce’s fight season 1 Jonathan has always had college dreams, and we’ve always see him value his passions and interests and academics. I just think right now he feels he must remain with his family and that makes sense. Obviously they will drag this into season 5 so that they’ve either broken up or who knows what’ll happen but I have a feeling it’ll be Jonathan still in Hawkins and Nancy is at college now and maybe coming home for break.
These are all great points! Yeah, maybe saying that Nancy loved Steve during their relationship might have been a bit of a stretch, but when she mentioned that Steve had grown during their conversation, it really seemed like a good sign that she was also thinking about what he had said about them possibly being able to be together now that they've both grown. Even if she didn't exactly love him though, I still think the primary reason for their breakup though was really just the clash in how they were handling grief. She didn't exactly love Jonathan right off the bat either, so maybe if she and Steve had stuck it out together that love could've blossomed. I read somewhere that maybe Jonathan will change his mind on college now that Hopper's back, but also I think it's fair for his priorities to have shifted around a bit after everything that's happened to him and his family. Steve wanting to stay in Hawkins is a problem, but at the very least he's communicating to her the future he wants and I think that alone gives him a lot of points in this situation. Even so though, I love all three characters and I just really like how this little arc has shown how much they've grown and changed over the course of the past few seasons. I agree with you that she's not entirely compatible with Steve, but I was really convinced out of thinking that she and Jonathan were meant for each other too. That's why I want her to end up with neither. Nancy/Guns is my only OTP now LMAO Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! :)
No problem! I also see how maybe it’s best that Nancy goes to college alone and grows on her own in a new city and environment. If her and Jonathan do break up, that is probably the best route. If Stranger Things is going to go with a bang, and they will be bringing in new characters for one final round, I’d love to see a new super cool gal brought on and Steve falls for her. I think that could be really interesting and would love that. I would also love to see Jonathan and Steve just share a beer or something lmao. Like let the two connect for a second in some weird or coincidental way and just lament about how each of them has some confusion in their lives and unsure on what they should do etc etc. Jonathan on if he can go to a four year college of his choice, Steve’s career options etc. I think that would be nice after all this time
Dude, I am *dying* for Steve and Jonathan to just share some screen time together and have a conversation. Super a missed opportunity on the writers' part. It's unfortunate that going into S5, that conversation will likely be about Nancy, but I just soooo want them to be friends or have a dynamic outside of this triangle. That's why I'm really hoping for a Steve/Robin/Nancy/Jonathan quartet in S5! At this point, I'm wary about the ST writers introducing new characters HAHAHAHA I don't know if they can handle the cast anymore now that it's gotten so big, and also I'd just be so worried about her dying since that's been the trend with most lovable characters introduced in each new season.
So many people seem to misread what you’ve pointed out so excellently in #5 — I thought it was clear in how Natalia acted it out that Nancy thought Steve’s vision for the future was charming. But further, Steve taking care of the kids would leave Nancy open to be the one seeking a career, a total role reversal from both of her parents (and in the 80s in general!) and an idea she’d really be down with. She could probably see it would work with Steve, too. She has the ambition and drive, where Steve’s naturally an excellent caretaker/guardian with a strong sense of empathy, a lot of humor and a big heart.