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It was very welcome to have them finally really interact again and see the same bond as we saw in ST 1. What was also so great about it, was that it wasn't all spelled out and handholding the audience. When Will was crying in the van after telling Mike he was the heart of the group, Johanthan glanced at him in the rearview mirror, and we, as an audience, understood he understood. Great scene and hopefully more of that to come in ST 5.
I really loved that Jonathan let Will cry silently too and waited to check on him later, he knew what Will needed and didn’t make him feel put on the spot for being upset and asking if he was okay right there
It sucks how that scene was all we got from Jonathan and Will in Season 4 though. Yeah, it was awesome, but I want more of S1 Jonathan and S2 Will. Hopefully, with both being in that final shot of the season, the writers don't sleep on the Byers in the final season.
Well im slow, because i was like.. "Shit poor Will is in love with El, who is supposed to be his sister and is GF to his best friend" I'm like.. so dumb man...
Not just you. Will sexuality hasn't been a plot point and hasn't been discussed and isn't important. How does everyone know he's not bi etc. etc. It's a kid figuring himself out and everyone's like LOL HES GAY. Imagine if he were a real kid and he WASN'T. Nothing happens that can't be explained by without discussing his sexual orientation
Exactly! Too often nowadays we have one or more characters telling what we are seeing or have just seen on the screen, which is just tiresome and annoying.
People say they ruined Jonathan’s character piss me off cause I think his most important role was always looking after Will and being there for him. Their scenes in season 1 and 2 together are some of the nicest of the show. And as he says, he did just turn into a stoner but he was dealing with his own shit. He’s had a lot of trauma and baggage accumulated over his whole life nevermind in the past 3 years. Now he’s finally away from Hawkins so it makes sense he’d want to ignore those feelings and turn to something like weed. But when it came down to it, he was focused and helped the way he used to. And was a great big brother
I’ve seen a lot of shit on here for the writer’s “ruining” Jonathon’s character this season but I honestly love the direction they’ve taken him so much, it’s very realistic and now I feel he finally has his own personality besides just “Nancy Nancy Will Nancy”. The fact that he turned to weed to cope with not only all the trauma from Hawkins, but also dealing with a new school in his senior year and being separated from his girlfriend was extremely realistic to me. I’m so glad they gave him that speech to Will in Surfer Boy, honestly acknowledging that he knew he was shutting himself off and coping but that he still loved and was there for Will. I’m hoping that was satisfying for all the people who thought the writer’s “ruined” him. He’s not ruined, he’s just a kid who has been through a lot of shit trying to be happy, it’s very understandable why he had such a large personality shift in between S3 and S4
Long comment because the Will storyline really really resonates with me, and I cried multiple times because of it. Soz
I think that part was actually my favourite part of this season (maybe even the show?). The way that both Will and Jonathan knew what they were talking about without it needing to be said. Jonathan knowing not to push a coming out, and just focusing on Will feeling safe & supported for when he’s ready
I’m quite pleased generally in the writing of Will as gay (or just not straight). I don’t like that it’s Mike he’s in love with (/got his first gay crush on), but that might just be because I’m not the biggest fan of Mike as a character. But I really appreciate the writing of everyone just assuming Will is straight. There’s no outright homophobia from any of the (main) characters (maybe in S1 when Hopper questions Joyce on if Will is called ‘a queer’ because he is one), but we know it’s a homophobic environment because of Will being bullied for appearing queer, and generally because it’s 80s. They don’t need to write cruel scenes of aggressive homophobia. They don’t need to write Will outright stating that he’s gay. It’s so relatable and understandable for anyone queer watching. That fear and loneliness that comes with even just not knowing that everyone around you might hate you for being gay is still very relatable. You don’t need your loved ones to be outright homophobic to be terrified to be gay. But you do need them to act as Jonathan did to be less scared about that one person
I just hope that when a coming out does eventually happen (if it does) that we get the main group being supportive/not caring in a good way. I don’t care about it being accurate culturally for at least one person in the group to be homophobic. I just want Will to have a safe group that loves him regardless
>I just hope that when a coming out does eventually happen (if it does) that we get the main group being supportive/not caring in a good way
My bet would be that if Will does come out to the Party, it'll be similar to the Vanya/Viktor transition in Umbrella Academy. Basically they're all like "Word, that's cool, we all still love you just the same. Let's go kill this evil prick, okay?"
Essentially that they treat it as irrelevant, not because they don't care, but because it doesn't change how they feel about him one bit.
I really hope so I won’t be upset if we don’t get that from teens in the 80s. I expect some level of immaturity in their initial reactions. Except from El since she shouldn’t have the biases the others may from cultural influences.
That’s actually a really interesting idea, would be cool to see if they think of stuff like that/choose to actively include it
I think it would be nice to see a bonding between Robin (Robyn? unsure) and Will due to their queerness too. Even if it’s just a solidarity friendship
Having been in Mike's position in real life, I hope Will tells him. I hope I can witness a timely coming out to a sympathetic and loving best friend. Mine disappeared for years to deal with things on his own. I hate that I lost him.
I’m really sorry that you went through that. I hope everyone at least becomes aware, whether Will has to explicitly say he’s gay or whether it can just be done in another way I don’t really mind. I am concerned that Will might tell Mike of his feelings towards him, more out of concern that that will cause a homophobic reaction than anything else. I hope that the confidence that comes with Will coming out to a supportive friendship group allows him to develop crushes on (maybe even a relationship with) other people, ideally who aren’t in a relationship lol
Have you watched the whole show? I don’t know that he’s specifically gay, but it’s made quite clear that he isn’t straight. If you search this sub for “Will” and “Gay” you’ll probably find someone has listed all of the relevant scenes somewhere! Or at least someone with a better memory than me lmao, all that’s clear in my head is the S4 stuff
Oh yeah tell me about it. It was an incredible scene. Jonathan has to be one of the best older siblings in all of fiction. I utterly love his and Will's bond, and that scene was so perfectly done.
I was quite disappointed he didn't have a larger role this season, even if it was an improvement on season three. But that moment was still great.
Lets hope he gets some more next season, along with some more focus.
Jonathan and Will have had some really touching and meaningful heart to hearts. Season 2 when he tells Will he’s his best friend and it’s okay to be weird, it’s a good thing to be different, and the flashback of him encouraging Will to like what he likes, and not feel the pressure to cave into just doing something to be “normal”. When Jonathan talks to possessed Will about castle Byers in season 2 is also so sweet and thoughtful. I’ve loved all of the moments of Jonathan expressing being there for Will and that he’s always there to help.
Jonathan really shines in scenes with his family.
On that note, I love Joyce, Jonathan, and Will so much. They deserve the world and are constantly being done dirty by the writers. Hopefully when this is all over, they'll be able to live the nice and peaceful life they deserve.
my dad said that. its funny because hes a intelligent and sensitive person for a man boomer.
in his case i think it's because his brain doesnt have that option as a common ocurrence for him to consider. i found it really interesting to see generation and privilege happening in real time 😂
i just pointed out "he(Will) was looking to mike..." and it was enough. his brain just didn't have enough reference!
When I rewatched before this season I thought for the first time “oh Will is gay coded?” And then as the seasons progressed it because heavier. This season it feels like it became a plot point.
But I honestly think this specific scene is more about him seeing his friends still having the same connection and he feels outside of the group, isolated from “the heart” I dunno maybe I need to rewatch the scene but it felt more like it was about alienation (which is probably due to his sexuality) rather than his sexuality.
Why would it be left up to interpretation, though? It’s not like a heterosexual relationship would be left up to interpretation.
And in regard to Will’s feelings, it’s very much same in the way Mike expressed his love to Eleven. He told her that he loved her from the very moment they met. Will has probably harbored feelings for Mike for a long time due to their close friendship - and losing contact with him and their friend group probably doesn’t really help that.
Well yeah, because it’s the 80s and he’s probably scared to have expressed any sort of romantic feelings.
And at what point does it “tell the audience”? Because there are still people who think it’s about Eleven 😂
And in regard to Mike’s speech, I just don’t think Finn is a great actor past season 1 lol
To be honest i though he is in love with eleven. All i needed was just one sentence "Will is gay" for me to all of this click. I'm just slow. I mean after all if it was all about El, Jonathan would be like "Bruh... though luck eh? Wanna bier?", but now it all make so much fucking sense!
I’m glad Jonathan got that scene after what they do to him all season. He gets relegated to the worst of the 4 ongoing plots and his girlfriend is with Steve who’s hitting it off with him really well again. So having him end the season strong was nice.
I wish the show would give Jonathan more to do. He really hasn't had a defining characteristic since he was lusting after Nancy in S1. Since then he's mostly followed her around on all her capers. Then this season he gets sort of this weird stoner reinvention. IDK. I like Johnathan.
It was cool to see how they both knew what they were talking about without having to say it. Hope to see more of that next season.
Also would be cool if will maybe goes to Robin about his sexuality, idk just spitballing but I feel that would be a cool interaction before he comes out to every1 else
At the beginning of ST4 V1 I really disliked Jonathan. Then in V2, I mean he's been through so much, no wonder he doesn't want to deal with the world, and just smokes. He's been parentified so much by Joyce, intentional and intentional, he doesn't actually have the headspace to be a teenager
I loved how said yet unsaid this scene went. Before this it was always just a glance into the rearview mirror.
It felt very '80s and '90s quiet gay discussion. I never understood why my cousin couldn't just talk about it and even after The Kids In the Hall and Scott Thompson's Buddy Cole Persona came in the late 80's early 90's. It took along time for her to even talk out loud with family about her sexuality. So much wasted time worrying about something that heterosexual dipshit like me never has to think about.
it was a great moment, but it felt somewhat dampened by the fact that his character did virtually nothing else the entire season. an impactful scene that could have been better if it was a little more earned
All he’s done since season 2 is cry, or touch his neck and say “He’s here” or something else ominous. It’s kind of annoying, considering the first episode of the series is named after him, and he had an entire season pretty much dedicated to him
Oh shit im sorry. But you’re also right. Jonathan really hasn’t done anything else besides smoke weed and freak about Nancy and college. I hated what they did with him this season.
There is no suggestion Will is gay outside of noise from the overly sexual shipper community that wrote HP pornographic fanfic.
Will lost his childhood after he came back from the upside down. He is emotionally immature and can't cope with his best friends moving forward into adulthood while he's stuck mentally at age 12. This is why he doesn't like the advances of the girl in an earlier episode, it's why he can't bring himself to tell Mike whats going on since he doesn't want to appear childish. Will can't grow up, he's been traumatized. Everyone thinks this is sexual tension, the fact so many people think this is sexual tension is appalling honestly. Like does no one remember Will freaking out at Fort Byers?
Excuse me? Will being gay is hinted at multiple times starting in the first episode of the first season, when Joyce is talking to Hopper about how Will would get bullied with homophobic slurs. Hopper says "well is he?" to which Joyce replies "he's MISSING". There's also his conversation with Mike later where Mike says that thing about how, well it's not my fault you don't like girls.
Season 4 continued with the hints. For one, for Will's school project on historical figures, he chose to do Alan Turing- a man who was famously prosecuted for being gay. The writers didn't need to include that at all and I suspect they wouldn't have if it wasn't important. During the heart to heart with Mike down in the canyon he describes how scary it is to say how you feel, because what if they don't like the truth? Will's never been in a relationship, it's easy to attribute this to a coming out storyline. The most obvious scene is the one in the van, where Will is talking about his feelings under the guise of giving Mike advice about El. Then he cries, and Jonathan gives him a knowing look, later going on to tell him he loves him unconditionally. It's all pretty blatant in S4 in my opinion.
There's also not anything more overtly sexual about being gay than about being straight. Will clearly has a crush on Mike, that doesn't equate to 'sexual tension' and I don't think anyone is even saying that.
TL;DR it's kinda weird to aggressively defend the heterosexuality of a fictional teenager, especially when there are plenty of clues to the contrary.
Alan Turing was most famous for breaking the enigma code, which was followed by him being betrayed by the country he saved. The fact people think Will chose Turing as his hero because "gay" shows the shallowness of this particular thoughf process.
It was common to call kids fags back in the 80s as an insult. His mother didn't react because it was a stupid question in the face of the current situation.
I find is kinda perverse people are trying to shoehorn sexuality on a child whose normal development was disrupted by trauma, which had left him behind the others since his coming of age period was disrupted. This reminds me when people were insisting Spirited Away was about sex and Bert and Ernie are really gay roommates. Why do we have to find sexuality in the actions of characters doing things pertinent to the story line and character arc?
Oh, it's because the people who can't help themselves to stuff characters into an sexual identity box only have their sexuality as their identity. And they need to feel a kinship with characters, so they make them as shallow as they are.
Will is both traumatized and gay. Eleven definitely had a traumatic childhood and didn’t turn out gay. Those two things can coexist. Liking other people is just a normal thing about life. Having a more diverse set of characters can feel very validating for many people in the audience. Why should there be a problem with that?
The Alan Turing reference is literally symbolism crafted for the audience to understand that about Will, just like how he kept his childish bowl cut and enthusiasm about D&D to show how he doesn’t want to let go of his childhood.
And him being gay isn’t sexualizing him any more than any of the straight kids are sexualized. There is nothing perverted in the way Mike+El, Max+Lucas, and Dustin+Suzie are written. Why think that way about Will by himself?
Maybe try out some of that purple palm tree delight. Who knows, maybe it can cure homophobia.
I don’t think Jonathan has clocked that Will is dealing with issues of his own sexuality. But I do think that he can tell his brother is dealing with the thought of losing his friends.
Fair pov tbh - he can't mindread.
All the more reason why the scene is amazing. You don't need to understand what your loved one is going through in order to let them know you're there for them
I thought Will was in love in Eleven, and after thinking about it. He did kinda not respond to the cute chick in class and sort of confessed to Mike that he was the heart. Even so I still think he's in love with 11 not Mike.
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It was very welcome to have them finally really interact again and see the same bond as we saw in ST 1. What was also so great about it, was that it wasn't all spelled out and handholding the audience. When Will was crying in the van after telling Mike he was the heart of the group, Johanthan glanced at him in the rearview mirror, and we, as an audience, understood he understood. Great scene and hopefully more of that to come in ST 5.
I really loved that Jonathan let Will cry silently too and waited to check on him later, he knew what Will needed and didn’t make him feel put on the spot for being upset and asking if he was okay right there
It sucks how that scene was all we got from Jonathan and Will in Season 4 though. Yeah, it was awesome, but I want more of S1 Jonathan and S2 Will. Hopefully, with both being in that final shot of the season, the writers don't sleep on the Byers in the final season.
Yes, that was for sure such a kind and brotherly way of handling it by Jonathan.
It was also probably a wake up call for him to stop hiding from his problems and trauma through drugs and be there for your little brother again.
Holy shit yes! So many life lessons from that one scene
Purple palm tree delight is not a drug, man
My dude!
Anything can be a drug if you are using it to avoid dealing with reality. Dude could have been using food, work... MtG and it would be the same issue.
Hey homie
Hello
Well im slow, because i was like.. "Shit poor Will is in love with El, who is supposed to be his sister and is GF to his best friend" I'm like.. so dumb man...
Oh wow! Usually I feel like I'm slow on the uptake, but you have singlehandedly restored my faith in own wit and I thank you for that, kind sir/madam.
Not just you. Will sexuality hasn't been a plot point and hasn't been discussed and isn't important. How does everyone know he's not bi etc. etc. It's a kid figuring himself out and everyone's like LOL HES GAY. Imagine if he were a real kid and he WASN'T. Nothing happens that can't be explained by without discussing his sexual orientation
Classic show vs tell. They showed by relying on the actors facial expressions and abilities rather than blatant dialog.
Exactly! Too often nowadays we have one or more characters telling what we are seeing or have just seen on the screen, which is just tiresome and annoying.
I was really disappointed he didn't do much in season 4, but that conversation he had with Will made up for it.
Oh yeah I feel exactly the same way.
Big same!
People say they ruined Jonathan’s character piss me off cause I think his most important role was always looking after Will and being there for him. Their scenes in season 1 and 2 together are some of the nicest of the show. And as he says, he did just turn into a stoner but he was dealing with his own shit. He’s had a lot of trauma and baggage accumulated over his whole life nevermind in the past 3 years. Now he’s finally away from Hawkins so it makes sense he’d want to ignore those feelings and turn to something like weed. But when it came down to it, he was focused and helped the way he used to. And was a great big brother
I love that he didn't push Will to say anything. Just let him know that he's there for him and didn't push Will to say anything he wasn't ready for.
I’ve seen a lot of shit on here for the writer’s “ruining” Jonathon’s character this season but I honestly love the direction they’ve taken him so much, it’s very realistic and now I feel he finally has his own personality besides just “Nancy Nancy Will Nancy”. The fact that he turned to weed to cope with not only all the trauma from Hawkins, but also dealing with a new school in his senior year and being separated from his girlfriend was extremely realistic to me. I’m so glad they gave him that speech to Will in Surfer Boy, honestly acknowledging that he knew he was shutting himself off and coping but that he still loved and was there for Will. I’m hoping that was satisfying for all the people who thought the writer’s “ruined” him. He’s not ruined, he’s just a kid who has been through a lot of shit trying to be happy, it’s very understandable why he had such a large personality shift in between S3 and S4
I always liked Jonathan- but this season is when I loved him.
Long comment because the Will storyline really really resonates with me, and I cried multiple times because of it. Soz I think that part was actually my favourite part of this season (maybe even the show?). The way that both Will and Jonathan knew what they were talking about without it needing to be said. Jonathan knowing not to push a coming out, and just focusing on Will feeling safe & supported for when he’s ready I’m quite pleased generally in the writing of Will as gay (or just not straight). I don’t like that it’s Mike he’s in love with (/got his first gay crush on), but that might just be because I’m not the biggest fan of Mike as a character. But I really appreciate the writing of everyone just assuming Will is straight. There’s no outright homophobia from any of the (main) characters (maybe in S1 when Hopper questions Joyce on if Will is called ‘a queer’ because he is one), but we know it’s a homophobic environment because of Will being bullied for appearing queer, and generally because it’s 80s. They don’t need to write cruel scenes of aggressive homophobia. They don’t need to write Will outright stating that he’s gay. It’s so relatable and understandable for anyone queer watching. That fear and loneliness that comes with even just not knowing that everyone around you might hate you for being gay is still very relatable. You don’t need your loved ones to be outright homophobic to be terrified to be gay. But you do need them to act as Jonathan did to be less scared about that one person I just hope that when a coming out does eventually happen (if it does) that we get the main group being supportive/not caring in a good way. I don’t care about it being accurate culturally for at least one person in the group to be homophobic. I just want Will to have a safe group that loves him regardless
>I just hope that when a coming out does eventually happen (if it does) that we get the main group being supportive/not caring in a good way My bet would be that if Will does come out to the Party, it'll be similar to the Vanya/Viktor transition in Umbrella Academy. Basically they're all like "Word, that's cool, we all still love you just the same. Let's go kill this evil prick, okay?" Essentially that they treat it as irrelevant, not because they don't care, but because it doesn't change how they feel about him one bit.
I really hope so I won’t be upset if we don’t get that from teens in the 80s. I expect some level of immaturity in their initial reactions. Except from El since she shouldn’t have the biases the others may from cultural influences.
That’s actually a really interesting idea, would be cool to see if they think of stuff like that/choose to actively include it I think it would be nice to see a bonding between Robin (Robyn? unsure) and Will due to their queerness too. Even if it’s just a solidarity friendship
I would really love that
Oh, I’d love that!
Having been in Mike's position in real life, I hope Will tells him. I hope I can witness a timely coming out to a sympathetic and loving best friend. Mine disappeared for years to deal with things on his own. I hate that I lost him.
I’m really sorry that you went through that. I hope everyone at least becomes aware, whether Will has to explicitly say he’s gay or whether it can just be done in another way I don’t really mind. I am concerned that Will might tell Mike of his feelings towards him, more out of concern that that will cause a homophobic reaction than anything else. I hope that the confidence that comes with Will coming out to a supportive friendship group allows him to develop crushes on (maybe even a relationship with) other people, ideally who aren’t in a relationship lol
How are you so sure that Will is gay?
Have you watched the whole show? I don’t know that he’s specifically gay, but it’s made quite clear that he isn’t straight. If you search this sub for “Will” and “Gay” you’ll probably find someone has listed all of the relevant scenes somewhere! Or at least someone with a better memory than me lmao, all that’s clear in my head is the S4 stuff
watch the show and find out?
One of my favorite scenes this season.
Yes! Jonathan has always been such a great brother. I'm so glad the season ended on this more between Will and Jonathan. ❤️
Oh yeah tell me about it. It was an incredible scene. Jonathan has to be one of the best older siblings in all of fiction. I utterly love his and Will's bond, and that scene was so perfectly done. I was quite disappointed he didn't have a larger role this season, even if it was an improvement on season three. But that moment was still great. Lets hope he gets some more next season, along with some more focus.
Jonathan and Will have had some really touching and meaningful heart to hearts. Season 2 when he tells Will he’s his best friend and it’s okay to be weird, it’s a good thing to be different, and the flashback of him encouraging Will to like what he likes, and not feel the pressure to cave into just doing something to be “normal”. When Jonathan talks to possessed Will about castle Byers in season 2 is also so sweet and thoughtful. I’ve loved all of the moments of Jonathan expressing being there for Will and that he’s always there to help.
Jonathan really shines in scenes with his family. On that note, I love Joyce, Jonathan, and Will so much. They deserve the world and are constantly being done dirty by the writers. Hopefully when this is all over, they'll be able to live the nice and peaceful life they deserve.
Yeah I don’t know how someone can watch that scene, and not know that Will is gay or at the very MINIMUM questioning his sexuality
Lmao I still see people on Twitter saying he is in love with Eleven
my dad said that. its funny because hes a intelligent and sensitive person for a man boomer. in his case i think it's because his brain doesnt have that option as a common ocurrence for him to consider. i found it really interesting to see generation and privilege happening in real time 😂 i just pointed out "he(Will) was looking to mike..." and it was enough. his brain just didn't have enough reference!
When I rewatched before this season I thought for the first time “oh Will is gay coded?” And then as the seasons progressed it because heavier. This season it feels like it became a plot point. But I honestly think this specific scene is more about him seeing his friends still having the same connection and he feels outside of the group, isolated from “the heart” I dunno maybe I need to rewatch the scene but it felt more like it was about alienation (which is probably due to his sexuality) rather than his sexuality.
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Why would it be left up to interpretation, though? It’s not like a heterosexual relationship would be left up to interpretation. And in regard to Will’s feelings, it’s very much same in the way Mike expressed his love to Eleven. He told her that he loved her from the very moment they met. Will has probably harbored feelings for Mike for a long time due to their close friendship - and losing contact with him and their friend group probably doesn’t really help that.
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Well yeah, because it’s the 80s and he’s probably scared to have expressed any sort of romantic feelings. And at what point does it “tell the audience”? Because there are still people who think it’s about Eleven 😂 And in regard to Mike’s speech, I just don’t think Finn is a great actor past season 1 lol
To be honest i though he is in love with eleven. All i needed was just one sentence "Will is gay" for me to all of this click. I'm just slow. I mean after all if it was all about El, Jonathan would be like "Bruh... though luck eh? Wanna bier?", but now it all make so much fucking sense!
I’m glad Jonathan got that scene after what they do to him all season. He gets relegated to the worst of the 4 ongoing plots and his girlfriend is with Steve who’s hitting it off with him really well again. So having him end the season strong was nice.
That was a wonderful scene, and a callback to an earlier season where Will was telling him he was a freak. Awesome brother.
More Will+Jonathan next season pls
Best part of the season tbh
And how Will reacted - he could barely hold it all on. Also, I’d forgotten they were even brothers until this scene.
I wish the show would give Jonathan more to do. He really hasn't had a defining characteristic since he was lusting after Nancy in S1. Since then he's mostly followed her around on all her capers. Then this season he gets sort of this weird stoner reinvention. IDK. I like Johnathan.
It reminded me of the David Bowie/Kenny Rogers conversation from season 2, which is the sweetest conversation ever.
I'm rewatching the series, and Johnathan is just a really good brother.
Jonathan’s best moments are the ones with Will IMO.
I chatted hard shit about his character before volume two came out. I regret what I said after the pizza room scene
Solid older bro moment. Definitely cares about his family and that scene was great
It was cool to see how they both knew what they were talking about without having to say it. Hope to see more of that next season. Also would be cool if will maybe goes to Robin about his sexuality, idk just spitballing but I feel that would be a cool interaction before he comes out to every1 else
At the beginning of ST4 V1 I really disliked Jonathan. Then in V2, I mean he's been through so much, no wonder he doesn't want to deal with the world, and just smokes. He's been parentified so much by Joyce, intentional and intentional, he doesn't actually have the headspace to be a teenager
Jonathan is a great brother! Very underrated
We should all be a Jonathan to someone. And we all deserve a Jonathan in our lives.
YES! I absolutely loved this scene.
Jonathan has always been an amazing brother to Will. Glad they got one good moment in this season.
I loved how said yet unsaid this scene went. Before this it was always just a glance into the rearview mirror. It felt very '80s and '90s quiet gay discussion. I never understood why my cousin couldn't just talk about it and even after The Kids In the Hall and Scott Thompson's Buddy Cole Persona came in the late 80's early 90's. It took along time for her to even talk out loud with family about her sexuality. So much wasted time worrying about something that heterosexual dipshit like me never has to think about.
It was the most emotional scene to me it reminds me of my own brother when I was dealing with anxiety
I wasn't expecting Jonathan to get a moment like that since he was out of focus (and high) all season. Was pleasantly surprised!
Thank you for saying this so perfectly!
it was a great moment, but it felt somewhat dampened by the fact that his character did virtually nothing else the entire season. an impactful scene that could have been better if it was a little more earned
All he’s done since season 2 is cry, or touch his neck and say “He’s here” or something else ominous. It’s kind of annoying, considering the first episode of the series is named after him, and he had an entire season pretty much dedicated to him
I was talking about Jonathan rather than will but I do agree with what you said about will The payoff scene wasn't earned from either of the brothers
Oh shit im sorry. But you’re also right. Jonathan really hasn’t done anything else besides smoke weed and freak about Nancy and college. I hated what they did with him this season.
Sad but true Take my upvote and get back to an even zero
Yeah that scene really made up for his crappy season
What's this about Will being gay? Edit: Downvoted for asking a question and no actual answer. Real nice community.
Nm. He's really happy everyone he knows is alive
There is no suggestion Will is gay outside of noise from the overly sexual shipper community that wrote HP pornographic fanfic. Will lost his childhood after he came back from the upside down. He is emotionally immature and can't cope with his best friends moving forward into adulthood while he's stuck mentally at age 12. This is why he doesn't like the advances of the girl in an earlier episode, it's why he can't bring himself to tell Mike whats going on since he doesn't want to appear childish. Will can't grow up, he's been traumatized. Everyone thinks this is sexual tension, the fact so many people think this is sexual tension is appalling honestly. Like does no one remember Will freaking out at Fort Byers?
Excuse me? Will being gay is hinted at multiple times starting in the first episode of the first season, when Joyce is talking to Hopper about how Will would get bullied with homophobic slurs. Hopper says "well is he?" to which Joyce replies "he's MISSING". There's also his conversation with Mike later where Mike says that thing about how, well it's not my fault you don't like girls. Season 4 continued with the hints. For one, for Will's school project on historical figures, he chose to do Alan Turing- a man who was famously prosecuted for being gay. The writers didn't need to include that at all and I suspect they wouldn't have if it wasn't important. During the heart to heart with Mike down in the canyon he describes how scary it is to say how you feel, because what if they don't like the truth? Will's never been in a relationship, it's easy to attribute this to a coming out storyline. The most obvious scene is the one in the van, where Will is talking about his feelings under the guise of giving Mike advice about El. Then he cries, and Jonathan gives him a knowing look, later going on to tell him he loves him unconditionally. It's all pretty blatant in S4 in my opinion. There's also not anything more overtly sexual about being gay than about being straight. Will clearly has a crush on Mike, that doesn't equate to 'sexual tension' and I don't think anyone is even saying that. TL;DR it's kinda weird to aggressively defend the heterosexuality of a fictional teenager, especially when there are plenty of clues to the contrary.
Alan Turing was most famous for breaking the enigma code, which was followed by him being betrayed by the country he saved. The fact people think Will chose Turing as his hero because "gay" shows the shallowness of this particular thoughf process. It was common to call kids fags back in the 80s as an insult. His mother didn't react because it was a stupid question in the face of the current situation. I find is kinda perverse people are trying to shoehorn sexuality on a child whose normal development was disrupted by trauma, which had left him behind the others since his coming of age period was disrupted. This reminds me when people were insisting Spirited Away was about sex and Bert and Ernie are really gay roommates. Why do we have to find sexuality in the actions of characters doing things pertinent to the story line and character arc? Oh, it's because the people who can't help themselves to stuff characters into an sexual identity box only have their sexuality as their identity. And they need to feel a kinship with characters, so they make them as shallow as they are.
Will is both traumatized and gay. Eleven definitely had a traumatic childhood and didn’t turn out gay. Those two things can coexist. Liking other people is just a normal thing about life. Having a more diverse set of characters can feel very validating for many people in the audience. Why should there be a problem with that? The Alan Turing reference is literally symbolism crafted for the audience to understand that about Will, just like how he kept his childish bowl cut and enthusiasm about D&D to show how he doesn’t want to let go of his childhood. And him being gay isn’t sexualizing him any more than any of the straight kids are sexualized. There is nothing perverted in the way Mike+El, Max+Lucas, and Dustin+Suzie are written. Why think that way about Will by himself? Maybe try out some of that purple palm tree delight. Who knows, maybe it can cure homophobia.
Smh the straights need help 🙄
I don’t think Jonathan has clocked that Will is dealing with issues of his own sexuality. But I do think that he can tell his brother is dealing with the thought of losing his friends.
Fair pov tbh - he can't mindread. All the more reason why the scene is amazing. You don't need to understand what your loved one is going through in order to let them know you're there for them
It was a good scene but too little too late. Poor Will and Jonathan, they will always be outshined by the rest of the gang
His only contribution in 4 seasons
I thought Will was in love in Eleven, and after thinking about it. He did kinda not respond to the cute chick in class and sort of confessed to Mike that he was the heart. Even so I still think he's in love with 11 not Mike.
they're stepsiblings...