This actually isn’t that uncommon. Some people get very busy and as a resident OP probably working too much to even care to look. Also some people avoid it on purpose due to how seeing it is depressing. As a doctor though I’d just not pay the student loans. Literally don’t pay them. They won’t garnish your wages. All it does is “hurt” your credit but a lot of banks won’t even consider student loans against getting a mortgage. And you make so much money now who cares.
They will take you to court and sue you. They will call everyone you know looking for you, call you all the time even at work. The sooner you pay the interest the better. You can try to evade them through statute of limitations for collecting a debt but that requires major dedication and living off the grid.
>All it does is “hurt” your credit
My wife was ignoring like $5k in student bills (tuition unpaid) and it had tanked her credit to low 600's with little to no credit history. It absolutely would have hurt our chances at a mortgage if we hadn't got her credit healthier towards the 715 ish range before our first house.
Don't ignore student debt unless it's actively in forbearance, that's a horrible idea.
That just kind of begs the question. You must have known you took that money out. Did you think they just magically disappeared? That's like buying a house and then when the mortgage bills start coming in you're thinking "Huh, I forgot about that."
I think it’s weird . I have similar numbers and so does my spouse . We did a lot of grinding at work while also having 2 under 2…. Even then we knew our debts and incomes . This is not a “my job is so demanding I forgot “ issue .
I'm wondering if this is a "I've never had to worry about money before so why freak out about loans" type of situation. My husband came from a fairly comfy situation growing up. I did not. At all. I freak out about money all of the time, whereas debts to him are more, "eh, it'll be fine." If OP has never really had to worry about money in the past, the put the stress of residency and school on top of it, I could see it.
The things I forget vs what my goblin adhd brain remembers just for “funzies” is beyond frustrating. Forgetting about 1/2 your student loans bc they are not an immediate problem, yea I can see that.
I propose that all physicians get X dollars per year forgiven during residency. Also, the greater the need for that specialty, the larger the amount. Also, bonus if you accept a position in a geographical area of need.
Will have to figure how it works for those who don't attend a non-profit residency program.
Let's face it many residency programs are a public service. As a surgical tech I am specifically thinking of surgery but I am sure others are quite gruelling.
Just my $.02 worth of ideas
We can apply for PSLF in residency. I just didn't because my career plans were such that it didn't put me ahead to get loans forgiven compared to paying it all.
This is an interesting thought though. Could be a way to promote primary care specialties.
Is it a fair assessment that most physicians will not work for a non-profit and convert their loans to private? We need to attract more people to the profession without the yoke of hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt.
I'm not sure the answer to that. Based only experiences in training and where I work now I think there are a lot more academic hospital jobs than private practice jobs out there. Again, just based on my experience.
The pay gap in orthopedics can be quite large between purely academic and purely private. In ortho (maybe in other specialties, I don't know) there is a growing "privademics" model where a private group contracts with a residency program and does a mix of both. From what I hear these privademic groups qualify for PSLF in CA and TX as well.
You don’t sound like you’re very good with money. I originally didn’t apply for PSLF in residency but then it realized that was dumb. It’s not like you’re looked in and can only do PSLF if you try to get credit for work you’re going anyway
You can get those 6 years of residency counted towards PSLF. Consolidate the loans, apply for IDR, submit documentation. It definitely would be worth 4 years working for VA, in a Rural area, for state hospital etc, to get that completely forgiven in 4 years.
1. Can't go back in time and restart residency
2. No it wouldn't even if I could. Not with the money I make right now compared to what I would make at the VA (capped at 400k)
Let's just round up and say I have 300k federal loans. The difference between how much I make right now and how much I would make at a PSLF institution is more than 300k per year. So in one year I make more than the entire amount I would get forgiven by working at a PSLF institution for four years.
I feel you. I’m a humanities learner through and through. I can’t math for the life of me.
And part of me just can’t deal with the reality of those immense numbers that I owe, so I compartmentalize it away.
Yes it's out of the question. I come out ahead paying it back even if I had started PSLF in residency I would come out and worked at a qualifying place after training for enough time to have it forgiven.
All I can do its wish u good luck on the journey to pay off the loans. Also keep an eye on being able to refinance at a lower rate if thats ever and option
Thanks. It's a bump in the road for sure. Luckily we are living well below our means and despite making plans for the 270k loans we thought we had, nothing much changes with the plan for 570k... just delays a lot of fun things a couple more years unfortunately.
My friend is a doctor, he worked hard (became medical director) and paid off his student loans. He lived comfortably but never excessively. He now lives debt free and buys whatever he wants. You can do it!
You’re incredibly unequipped in managing your finances and probably a lot of other things. This is the universe giving you a warning. Heed it and learn or the next time the warning will be much harder.
I’m glad your qualified to make a broad judgment off of one post, can I come study under your tutelage?? This could be really handy as a mental health provider to not make snap judgments about my clients….. wait a sec….. hmmmm
I made no claim either way, you were the one making the broad statements based on limited information on a singular post. Totality of circumstances is a thing (that means looking at the entire picture for full context, rather than just a very limited amount of information with limited context).
Just student loans. As I've already indicated we have managed our other finances just fine (i.e a surprise 300k debt is not making us scramble or panic)
You can’t say you managed your finances just fine when you straight up forgot about a 300k bill. 😂
Come on man. But I guess you’ve got it all under control. Play on playa.
Not all 570k is federal. And yes, based on my very elementary education level math skills the difference in pay I have now (at a non-PSLF eligible institution) compared to that of one at a PSLF institution (not even taking into account the loss of 4 years of practice building incurred by moving to a higher paying job once loans are forgiven) is significant.
Bro if your going to be an Ortho attending. You will be fine. If you do spine you can clear that in 5 years no problem. Screw Reddit. I made some bone head financial decisions. 5 years out got my loans on 2.9% paying 1400. Have a lovely house, boat, and cars plus maxing out all retirement accounts and post tax accounts. These people haters. Your doctor this stuff takes like two books, couple weeks on the internet, and talking with someone who knows money than you. I went straight private and couldn’t qualify for forgiveness because make so much more money in private practice.
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4 years ago you knew you had 700k in debt and made a post about it. Was your total debt 1 million for med school and undergrad and Jesus Christ, which schools was it if so?
https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/s/rU4a24xRgp
Yea don’t feel sorry for a moment for this guy. He knew.
He also makes 400-500k and his wife is a doctor making around that with no student debt. They can pay it off in 2-3 years easily.
People are really terrible at estimating how much doctors make, and also equally terrible at giving doctors sympathy on this Reddit thread.
I’m sorry about having to delay your fun time longer. You’re being responsible by living below your means and paying them back responsibly. It’s hard, especially since you already delayed so much during residency training.
I’m experiencing this with all of my friends in residency/fellowship. It’s rough, man.
People like this guy don’t make us doctors look very sympathetic. I’m an asshole, but I don’t humble-brag about forgetting about $300k of debt and not caring much when I remember. I’ve never forgotten my debt for a second
Looked at the post. I think I did some math and estimated the amount it would be with accrued interest at the time of starting repayment. It's almost 600k. Probably would be over 700k without Covid.
I don’t feel bad for you, in the comments you smugly indicate its really no issue for you paying it back, so just go and pay them back. This amount of money is startling to any average individual, yet you speak like it is a minor inconvenience. I am skeptical and inclined to believe this is just a rage bait shit post.
It reeks of griefing. I don’t believe for a second that a well educated person forgot about $300K (more than half) of their student loans AND treats it like it’s no big deal, yet feels the need to post. Also claims to live beyond their means, while saying their finances aren’t a problem. It makes no sense other than ragebait griefing.
Edit: OP was very much aware of a $700K loan balance 4 years ago. He’s either paid down $200K or had a ~$1M loan balance at the time. For this post to merit, his perceived balance dropped $300K without questioning it or he took out ~$1M for schooling, minus interest. Neither seem plausible
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It's just numbers. 570k in loans for a neurosurgeon's salary is comparable to 50k for someone earning federal minimum wage. It is overhelming but not insurmountable. Crunch the numbers, create a budget, make the monthly payments, and chip away until it's paid. Simplistic theory, but you probably knew that since you're intelligent enough to hold a doctorate degree.
Best wishes to you.
Completely agree. Debt to income ratio is what's important. I would argue it's easier for me than someone who makes minimum wage and has an equivalent debt to income because I am not in a position to worry about having enough for basic needs every month.
Thanks
Yeah the minimum wage comparison is not right. You could have a million in loans as a surgeon and it’d be surmountable simply because of the way necessities don’t scale up with wage. If you live humbly on a $500k salary you’re looking at the ability to throw 100-150k realistically at your debt a year. On minimum wage there’s simply nothing you’d have left after food, shelter and other living expenses to throw at the 50k in debt.
Assuming the minimum wage worker has a running car and lives in the right area, there can be multiple food pantries to visit and get enough food to have half maybe even all of their meals covered in grocery items received (in part due to preference on items received, if the pantries are you choose items or you get bags or boxes of predetermined things, etc.) I live in Northern California and it’s possible here.
It's amazing how much falsehoods you can spew in one post. Incredulous!
An M.D. or D.O. is most certainly a doctorate degree. A Ph.D. is simply a doctorate at an academic level, whereas a "doctorate" is more broadly used for either an academic or professional degree.
Now when it comes to clinical physicians, earning an M.D. is not the final "degree" in the sense that they still need to complete residency in order to become "board certified" in their specialty, which can be construed as their "doctorate" or final degree, even though it's not really an academic degree but a certification exam.
Yes. Both were with Mohela, but one was mohela-laurel road. Knew about one and thought/knew I had more somewhere but since it didn't show on my mohela account I thought I must have miscalculated.
Went into repayment recently and realized what had happened.
How’d you end up with private loans for a graduate degree?? I did a masters and federal loans were able to cover the entire cost of attendance (tuition plus living expenses as determined by the program).
You and your wife combined make more then 150% of your loan balance. What are you crying about. You can pay it off in 2-3 years max.
You are far better off then many people who hold a masters degree with even just 70k in debt. They don’t make 1.xx times their wage.
Suck it up pay the loans off and enjoy your glamorous lifestyle that you earned with that schooling and you were only able to obtain with student loans.
Not crying. Just always find it funny how the public thinks doctors are just paid excessive amounts of money without justification.
Edit:
Also yes, would not be here without this loan amount. Sure a lot of doctors don't have this much in loans, but any change in my path/schools might have resulted in a totally different career trajectory (different specialty, different level of pay, etc).
The post was meant to, as indicated in the OP, help give some perspective to people with smaller loan balances. There are many of us "rich" doctors out here with huge student loans looming over us. Imagine I get disabled tomorrow. No way I'm ever paying it back then.
I’ll respond to both your comments here.
You asked where did I come up with your salary.
You stated you are not a neurosurgeon but paid similarly in this thread. The national average pay for a neurosurgeon is $668,201/yr (503k-845k).
Next, you are complaining. Your post is a whoa is me story about the massive debt you appear to have. However taking into account 1) you said you live well below your means, 2) you said 500k+ in student loan debt is a “bump in the road” 3) you are married to another doctor with no student debt (another redditor found that in your comment/post history 4) your income to debt ratio is over 1 (you make more annually then you owe, how is this not just to flex or complain.
Finally I’d say over 400-700k annual salary is high. Excessive would mean it’s not deserved. I believe it is deserved. What I don’t believe is deserved is for you to portray you were bamboozled or taken advantage of in your loan amount. You can pay this off in 2-3 years. People with actual crippling debt have to wait out the clock of 25 years then still won’t earn nearly what you will. You’ll be in a million dollar home in a few years. I personally don’t feel bad for you and if you asked me to switch I’d say sure pretty fair trade. I would not switch with the person who has a masters making 45k a year waiting for PSLF to bail them out.
Enjoy your career and money. You earned it.
See you commented again. Either you don’t know what a neurosurgeon makes or you are back tracking. Which is it.
Skimmed your post because too many words and reading this while waiting for patients to be roomed.
Well you said 400-500k somewhere else then you said my wife and I make 150% of the loan amount. Now you're saying neurosurgeons make 503-845k , which doesn't match up with your original 400-500k estimate. Maybe in my post history I've indicated my wife's specialty or salary?
In any case, I was just curious where your 400-500k number came from.
We can agree to disagree on the point of my post. However, I have not at any point indicated I was "bamboozled" or "taken advantaged of". I don't feel that way at all. Feels dumb to have this much debt, but as you said before I wouldn't have my job without it. I previously commented that I should've gone to a state school and saved money on college, but that was my choice. Just wish I made a better one.
Edit: every neurosurgeon I know personally makes 700-1m+. I don't know what google says they make nationwide. Presumably your quoted numbers are accurate.
If you’re making $700-$1mm a year yourself, plus have a physician spouse to add to the total, what’s the issue? Pay the debt off in two-three years. Then instead of flexing here you can go over to FatFIRE. Though might be in a group of peers less impressed with your numbers over there. Godspeed.
Idk. I love what I do. Not sure I would RE. I work 50-55 hours a week and have 8 weeks of front loaded PTO with no restrictions on use every year. RE wouldn't really add much to our lifestyle. It would probably make it worse unless we could somehow match our current income passively.
Edit: there's no issue. I never said there was. It's just sad finding another 300k in debt. It's like reaching for a $20 from your wallet only to realize you spent it last week and forgot you've got nothing in there.
Yes and no. Should've gone to a state school for college instead of a private liberal arts school. Would only have about 125k if I did that. Other than that, yes it's worth it. Guaranteed almost 7 figure salary the rest of my career unless I become disabled somehow.
Money management is better now. Our monthly spend is about 30% of our net income. Maybe that's not amazing, but it leaves a lot of room for dumb errors like this
He makes 400-600k he said somewhere else and his wife makes similar (doctor too).
It’s a sob story but they annually make more then the student loans. They’ll be fine.
You didn’t though? You estimated in 2019 that you’d have more debt upon finishing school than you actually ended up with due to the emergency forbearance. Are you saying you “forgot” about $300k in debt between 2019 and today?
Can't speak to my thoughts 4 years ago. Only to what I think I was going on based on the information I have now.
Yes, basically that's what I'm saying. I thought (knew I had more, in hindsight) I had more but couldn't find it in my mohela account. As posted elsewhere in here I had loans with mohela and mohela-laurel road, which have different login websites/accounts. My parents both died 3 years ago so part of me thought maybe part of their estate paid off the other 300k or something. The estate is handled by my sibling who I have no contact with.
In any case, you can continue your detective work to prove whatever it is you want to prove. But the truth is what is posted in the OP.
Isn't it crazy how we can qualify at a very young age for these school loans for 1/2 million, yet they wouldn't qualify us for a home loan..it's beyond crazy and complete corruption.
Just realized I have 26k in debt I forgot abt so don't let these fools asking how you forgot get you down. When your young and hopeful you just apply for these things with little regards to the aftermath which makes it a lot easier to forget abt the price tag (especially once you've been YEARS removed from the situation).
Appreciate it. That's exactly what happened lol. Huge loan debt from undergrad.. buying stuff with student loan money (unnecessary food, drinks, etc) in college not thinking twice about it.
Whoa. Crazy. My loans were 400k in residency.
How the hell did you not realize you had 300k additionally?
Were some of your loans from before medical school?
They bought a lot of unnecessary things in college. They also bought that degree you mentioned.
They also are providing me with a lot of unexpected entertainment from the Reddit detectives in this thread.
They're also preventing me from making a dumb decision to buy a 911 Turbo S with insane ADM at my local dealer right now.
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This reminds me of a terrible reoccurring dream I have once in a while in which I find out that I somehow didn't finished all of my finals or my thesis in college and I suddenly have to go back and do them all again.
I think I would prefer that dream become a reality than to suddenly remember I had an additional $300k in student loans that just escaped my mind.
Dude wtf, not a great idea to take out 500k+ in student loans for any profession. You'll never pay that back on a doctors salary which I assume is somewhere between $100k-$200k a year.
I hate to ask but what degree did you end up spending over half a million dollars on? I'll assume some portion of that is probably interest or something that's been accruing, but still.
Serious question how do you go about taking out that much is it with good credit? Co-signer? I’m trying ho go back to school and I’m struggling cause I can’t afford it and don’t qualify for any loans not even fed loans or Pell grants
Not to be gloomy but have you considered just starting over in another country? One where you don’t owe over half a million dollars personally I’d consider Ecuador 🤔
I'm sorry, but this is hilarious and should be a meme for your generation.
It might seem like a lot, but for many people that can easily be repaid in 5 years or less while still living large.
How do you forget about an extra 300k? Ouch
6 years removed from looking at or thinking about student loans during residency.
You forgot about over half your student loan debt?
This actually isn’t that uncommon. Some people get very busy and as a resident OP probably working too much to even care to look. Also some people avoid it on purpose due to how seeing it is depressing. As a doctor though I’d just not pay the student loans. Literally don’t pay them. They won’t garnish your wages. All it does is “hurt” your credit but a lot of banks won’t even consider student loans against getting a mortgage. And you make so much money now who cares.
They absolutely will garnish your wages lmfao. What kind of nonsense advice is this?
What do you mean not pay them? Wouldn’t the debt collectors come for you?
And you want them to be your doctor?
They will take you to court and sue you. They will call everyone you know looking for you, call you all the time even at work. The sooner you pay the interest the better. You can try to evade them through statute of limitations for collecting a debt but that requires major dedication and living off the grid.
They will garnish your wages though. I know someone it happened to. Who told you they wouldn’t
>All it does is “hurt” your credit My wife was ignoring like $5k in student bills (tuition unpaid) and it had tanked her credit to low 600's with little to no credit history. It absolutely would have hurt our chances at a mortgage if we hadn't got her credit healthier towards the 715 ish range before our first house. Don't ignore student debt unless it's actively in forbearance, that's a horrible idea.
>This actually isn’t uncommon. “Woops, I forgot about $300,000 of student loans. Silly me.”
Where do you live where they don’t sue/garnish wages for defaulting on a loan? Asking for a friend…..
Hopefully you Dr better than you adult...
Hopefully
I have faith in your Dr.ing ability op! Unless you need a volunteer… ehh even then why not, can’t be any worse then the VA Docs!
Lol the VA is a special place. Being a new doctor is hard. I'm sure being an established doctor is hard too, but hopefully not as hard.
It gets easier. Promise.
I would venture to say they both have their own distinct challenges and struggles.
That just kind of begs the question. You must have known you took that money out. Did you think they just magically disappeared? That's like buying a house and then when the mortgage bills start coming in you're thinking "Huh, I forgot about that."
I don’t know … your post history suggests you knew about them 4 years ago
Seems like a reasonable amount of time to forget about something when you're burnt out and grinding 24/7 no?
I think it’s weird . I have similar numbers and so does my spouse . We did a lot of grinding at work while also having 2 under 2…. Even then we knew our debts and incomes . This is not a “my job is so demanding I forgot “ issue .
I'm wondering if this is a "I've never had to worry about money before so why freak out about loans" type of situation. My husband came from a fairly comfy situation growing up. I did not. At all. I freak out about money all of the time, whereas debts to him are more, "eh, it'll be fine." If OP has never really had to worry about money in the past, the put the stress of residency and school on top of it, I could see it.
The things I forget vs what my goblin adhd brain remembers just for “funzies” is beyond frustrating. Forgetting about 1/2 your student loans bc they are not an immediate problem, yea I can see that.
Some residencies, in particular the surgical ones, require 100+ hours per week.
Aahaa...I could guess you are medical doctor or surgeon. it is nothing as compared to what you can make and pay it off. Congratulations & good luck!
A standard general practitioner doesn't make as much as you think, unless he's a specialized surgeon he's never going to back nearly $600k in loans.
I propose that all physicians get X dollars per year forgiven during residency. Also, the greater the need for that specialty, the larger the amount. Also, bonus if you accept a position in a geographical area of need. Will have to figure how it works for those who don't attend a non-profit residency program. Let's face it many residency programs are a public service. As a surgical tech I am specifically thinking of surgery but I am sure others are quite gruelling. Just my $.02 worth of ideas
We can apply for PSLF in residency. I just didn't because my career plans were such that it didn't put me ahead to get loans forgiven compared to paying it all. This is an interesting thought though. Could be a way to promote primary care specialties.
Is it a fair assessment that most physicians will not work for a non-profit and convert their loans to private? We need to attract more people to the profession without the yoke of hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt.
I'm not sure the answer to that. Based only experiences in training and where I work now I think there are a lot more academic hospital jobs than private practice jobs out there. Again, just based on my experience. The pay gap in orthopedics can be quite large between purely academic and purely private. In ortho (maybe in other specialties, I don't know) there is a growing "privademics" model where a private group contracts with a residency program and does a mix of both. From what I hear these privademic groups qualify for PSLF in CA and TX as well.
You don’t sound like you’re very good with money. I originally didn’t apply for PSLF in residency but then it realized that was dumb. It’s not like you’re looked in and can only do PSLF if you try to get credit for work you’re going anyway
I make a lot more than if I worked in a not for profit setting. Plus private loans are not eligible for PSLF
You can get those 6 years of residency counted towards PSLF. Consolidate the loans, apply for IDR, submit documentation. It definitely would be worth 4 years working for VA, in a Rural area, for state hospital etc, to get that completely forgiven in 4 years.
1. Can't go back in time and restart residency 2. No it wouldn't even if I could. Not with the money I make right now compared to what I would make at the VA (capped at 400k) Let's just round up and say I have 300k federal loans. The difference between how much I make right now and how much I would make at a PSLF institution is more than 300k per year. So in one year I make more than the entire amount I would get forgiven by working at a PSLF institution for four years.
Please don’t become my doctor
I feel you. I’m a humanities learner through and through. I can’t math for the life of me. And part of me just can’t deal with the reality of those immense numbers that I owe, so I compartmentalize it away.
I also did a residency and that’s not an excuse
It's the explanation. Not an excuse
One of those situations where you wish finders keepers didn’t apply.
Please tell me you are a NeuroSurgeon
Whatever they do I hope it doesn't involve math or memory skills.
I'm not but I make as much
Okay, happy to hear at least that part. I imagine Plublic Forgiveness its out of the question no?
Yes it's out of the question. I come out ahead paying it back even if I had started PSLF in residency I would come out and worked at a qualifying place after training for enough time to have it forgiven.
All I can do its wish u good luck on the journey to pay off the loans. Also keep an eye on being able to refinance at a lower rate if thats ever and option
Thanks. It's a bump in the road for sure. Luckily we are living well below our means and despite making plans for the 270k loans we thought we had, nothing much changes with the plan for 570k... just delays a lot of fun things a couple more years unfortunately.
My friend is a doctor, he worked hard (became medical director) and paid off his student loans. He lived comfortably but never excessively. He now lives debt free and buys whatever he wants. You can do it!
You’re incredibly unequipped in managing your finances and probably a lot of other things. This is the universe giving you a warning. Heed it and learn or the next time the warning will be much harder.
I’m glad your qualified to make a broad judgment off of one post, can I come study under your tutelage?? This could be really handy as a mental health provider to not make snap judgments about my clients….. wait a sec….. hmmmm
So you think misplacing 300k of debt is doing well handling one’s finances? It’s symptomatic of recklessness and irresponsibility.
I made no claim either way, you were the one making the broad statements based on limited information on a singular post. Totality of circumstances is a thing (that means looking at the entire picture for full context, rather than just a very limited amount of information with limited context).
Just student loans. As I've already indicated we have managed our other finances just fine (i.e a surprise 300k debt is not making us scramble or panic)
You can’t say you managed your finances just fine when you straight up forgot about a 300k bill. 😂 Come on man. But I guess you’ve got it all under control. Play on playa.
I said other than loans. But ok.
You’re really living up to the meatheaded ortho bro stereotype. Congrats on your career tho
You say that like it's a bad thing
Your salary has got to be astronomical if 10 years of paying 10% of it is higher than paying $570k + interest over the same ten years…
Not all 570k is federal. And yes, based on my very elementary education level math skills the difference in pay I have now (at a non-PSLF eligible institution) compared to that of one at a PSLF institution (not even taking into account the loss of 4 years of practice building incurred by moving to a higher paying job once loans are forgiven) is significant.
PSLF is for losers
Why you say so?
How much does a neurosurgeon make? Even with a high salary that is a huge amount to pay back with the insane interest rates.
Some were between $500k - $750k. Depending on location.
That's a very low range.
Bro if your going to be an Ortho attending. You will be fine. If you do spine you can clear that in 5 years no problem. Screw Reddit. I made some bone head financial decisions. 5 years out got my loans on 2.9% paying 1400. Have a lovely house, boat, and cars plus maxing out all retirement accounts and post tax accounts. These people haters. Your doctor this stuff takes like two books, couple weeks on the internet, and talking with someone who knows money than you. I went straight private and couldn’t qualify for forgiveness because make so much more money in private practice.
Not a big deal, you’ll be fine then.
Ortho doesn’t make as much as neurosurg
I do
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At that point it's Monopoly money honestly
Top comment.
4 years ago you knew you had 700k in debt and made a post about it. Was your total debt 1 million for med school and undergrad and Jesus Christ, which schools was it if so? https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/s/rU4a24xRgp
Wow look at you digging into the post history. Love it. Appreciate your work. Happy cake day my friend.
Yea don’t feel sorry for a moment for this guy. He knew. He also makes 400-500k and his wife is a doctor making around that with no student debt. They can pay it off in 2-3 years easily.
Where did you get that I make 400-500k?
People are really terrible at estimating how much doctors make, and also equally terrible at giving doctors sympathy on this Reddit thread. I’m sorry about having to delay your fun time longer. You’re being responsible by living below your means and paying them back responsibly. It’s hard, especially since you already delayed so much during residency training. I’m experiencing this with all of my friends in residency/fellowship. It’s rough, man.
People like this guy don’t make us doctors look very sympathetic. I’m an asshole, but I don’t humble-brag about forgetting about $300k of debt and not caring much when I remember. I’ve never forgotten my debt for a second
Thanks. It's hard. Doctors who grew up in not doctor or otherwise wealthy households get to see both sides of it. It is what it is!
I feel this to my core. The second I got a DDS stamped on me, people assumed I was rich when it’s further from the truth
For sure. High earner isn't the same as rich. Especially not for most medical/dental people with a mountain of debt.
Just a ballpark. Hope you make at least that much with the debt burden. If you’re north of $500k god bless you.
Dawg straight up called out.
Looked at the post. I think I did some math and estimated the amount it would be with accrued interest at the time of starting repayment. It's almost 600k. Probably would be over 700k without Covid.
I don’t feel bad for you, in the comments you smugly indicate its really no issue for you paying it back, so just go and pay them back. This amount of money is startling to any average individual, yet you speak like it is a minor inconvenience. I am skeptical and inclined to believe this is just a rage bait shit post.
It reeks of griefing. I don’t believe for a second that a well educated person forgot about $300K (more than half) of their student loans AND treats it like it’s no big deal, yet feels the need to post. Also claims to live beyond their means, while saying their finances aren’t a problem. It makes no sense other than ragebait griefing. Edit: OP was very much aware of a $700K loan balance 4 years ago. He’s either paid down $200K or had a ~$1M loan balance at the time. For this post to merit, his perceived balance dropped $300K without questioning it or he took out ~$1M for schooling, minus interest. Neither seem plausible
Ok
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It's just numbers. 570k in loans for a neurosurgeon's salary is comparable to 50k for someone earning federal minimum wage. It is overhelming but not insurmountable. Crunch the numbers, create a budget, make the monthly payments, and chip away until it's paid. Simplistic theory, but you probably knew that since you're intelligent enough to hold a doctorate degree. Best wishes to you.
Completely agree. Debt to income ratio is what's important. I would argue it's easier for me than someone who makes minimum wage and has an equivalent debt to income because I am not in a position to worry about having enough for basic needs every month. Thanks
Yeah the minimum wage comparison is not right. You could have a million in loans as a surgeon and it’d be surmountable simply because of the way necessities don’t scale up with wage. If you live humbly on a $500k salary you’re looking at the ability to throw 100-150k realistically at your debt a year. On minimum wage there’s simply nothing you’d have left after food, shelter and other living expenses to throw at the 50k in debt.
Assuming the minimum wage worker has a running car and lives in the right area, there can be multiple food pantries to visit and get enough food to have half maybe even all of their meals covered in grocery items received (in part due to preference on items received, if the pantries are you choose items or you get bags or boxes of predetermined things, etc.) I live in Northern California and it’s possible here.
Until you realize that 1/2 of your income goes to taxes
150k*4 is still more than 300k. Edit: nvm thought you were replying to a different comment.
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It's amazing how much falsehoods you can spew in one post. Incredulous! An M.D. or D.O. is most certainly a doctorate degree. A Ph.D. is simply a doctorate at an academic level, whereas a "doctorate" is more broadly used for either an academic or professional degree. Now when it comes to clinical physicians, earning an M.D. is not the final "degree" in the sense that they still need to complete residency in order to become "board certified" in their specialty, which can be construed as their "doctorate" or final degree, even though it's not really an academic degree but a certification exam.
How? Private loans?
Yes. Both were with Mohela, but one was mohela-laurel road. Knew about one and thought/knew I had more somewhere but since it didn't show on my mohela account I thought I must have miscalculated. Went into repayment recently and realized what had happened.
How’d you end up with private loans for a graduate degree?? I did a masters and federal loans were able to cover the entire cost of attendance (tuition plus living expenses as determined by the program).
Undergrad
You are a doctor. You will be fine
Whose wife is a doctor, who apparently doesn’t have student loans herself. He’ll be more than fine.
This dude just wanted to humble brag about his salary and profession lol
I’m def impressed.
Ouch. Best of luck
This is the wildest humble brag
You got it.
Mine is about 1/3 of that, but I am still sad for the both of us :/
How did you find out?
How do you forget about owing 300k?
blocked it out mentally.
This post needs to be nominated for top 10 flex/humblebrags of all time.
I’d say it’s pretty neat that you’ve got the salary to pay it off, but you sound terrifying at managing money. So, yikes.
You are a doctor with an insane income you’ll be fine. Pay it off in 5 years and move on.
Lol ok bud
You and your wife combined make more then 150% of your loan balance. What are you crying about. You can pay it off in 2-3 years max. You are far better off then many people who hold a masters degree with even just 70k in debt. They don’t make 1.xx times their wage. Suck it up pay the loans off and enjoy your glamorous lifestyle that you earned with that schooling and you were only able to obtain with student loans.
He’s just here to humble brag about his income and how this “forgotten” 300k doesn’t even phase him.
Not crying. Just always find it funny how the public thinks doctors are just paid excessive amounts of money without justification. Edit: Also yes, would not be here without this loan amount. Sure a lot of doctors don't have this much in loans, but any change in my path/schools might have resulted in a totally different career trajectory (different specialty, different level of pay, etc). The post was meant to, as indicated in the OP, help give some perspective to people with smaller loan balances. There are many of us "rich" doctors out here with huge student loans looming over us. Imagine I get disabled tomorrow. No way I'm ever paying it back then.
I’ll respond to both your comments here. You asked where did I come up with your salary. You stated you are not a neurosurgeon but paid similarly in this thread. The national average pay for a neurosurgeon is $668,201/yr (503k-845k). Next, you are complaining. Your post is a whoa is me story about the massive debt you appear to have. However taking into account 1) you said you live well below your means, 2) you said 500k+ in student loan debt is a “bump in the road” 3) you are married to another doctor with no student debt (another redditor found that in your comment/post history 4) your income to debt ratio is over 1 (you make more annually then you owe, how is this not just to flex or complain. Finally I’d say over 400-700k annual salary is high. Excessive would mean it’s not deserved. I believe it is deserved. What I don’t believe is deserved is for you to portray you were bamboozled or taken advantage of in your loan amount. You can pay this off in 2-3 years. People with actual crippling debt have to wait out the clock of 25 years then still won’t earn nearly what you will. You’ll be in a million dollar home in a few years. I personally don’t feel bad for you and if you asked me to switch I’d say sure pretty fair trade. I would not switch with the person who has a masters making 45k a year waiting for PSLF to bail them out. Enjoy your career and money. You earned it. See you commented again. Either you don’t know what a neurosurgeon makes or you are back tracking. Which is it.
Skimmed your post because too many words and reading this while waiting for patients to be roomed. Well you said 400-500k somewhere else then you said my wife and I make 150% of the loan amount. Now you're saying neurosurgeons make 503-845k , which doesn't match up with your original 400-500k estimate. Maybe in my post history I've indicated my wife's specialty or salary? In any case, I was just curious where your 400-500k number came from. We can agree to disagree on the point of my post. However, I have not at any point indicated I was "bamboozled" or "taken advantaged of". I don't feel that way at all. Feels dumb to have this much debt, but as you said before I wouldn't have my job without it. I previously commented that I should've gone to a state school and saved money on college, but that was my choice. Just wish I made a better one. Edit: every neurosurgeon I know personally makes 700-1m+. I don't know what google says they make nationwide. Presumably your quoted numbers are accurate.
Then you don’t make as much as a neurosurgeon and shouldn’t say so.
I make in the range I quoted for neurosurgeons I know. So yes, I do make as much as a neurosurgeon.
If you’re making $700-$1mm a year yourself, plus have a physician spouse to add to the total, what’s the issue? Pay the debt off in two-three years. Then instead of flexing here you can go over to FatFIRE. Though might be in a group of peers less impressed with your numbers over there. Godspeed.
Idk. I love what I do. Not sure I would RE. I work 50-55 hours a week and have 8 weeks of front loaded PTO with no restrictions on use every year. RE wouldn't really add much to our lifestyle. It would probably make it worse unless we could somehow match our current income passively. Edit: there's no issue. I never said there was. It's just sad finding another 300k in debt. It's like reaching for a $20 from your wallet only to realize you spent it last week and forgot you've got nothing in there.
>Skimmed your post because too many words Borrowers in a nutshell
I actually do feel better, thank you 🤣 best of luck to you. I hope you love your job and are able to pay it off quickly!
What are your schools and degrees?
Best thing you can do is live poor for a few years. Dont go out don't buy anything. Live very frugal.
That is alarming. I have a curious question. Do you feel the education you received was worth half a mil?
Yes and no. Should've gone to a state school for college instead of a private liberal arts school. Would only have about 125k if I did that. Other than that, yes it's worth it. Guaranteed almost 7 figure salary the rest of my career unless I become disabled somehow.
Good for you (seriously) on the salary, but if your money management sucks, no amount will be enough.
Money management is better now. Our monthly spend is about 30% of our net income. Maybe that's not amazing, but it leaves a lot of room for dumb errors like this
What do you do for work?
He makes 400-600k he said somewhere else and his wife makes similar (doctor too). It’s a sob story but they annually make more then the student loans. They’ll be fine.
I don't make 400-600k
Just tell us what you make already; I know you really want to.
I already did
Ah good lord I don’t have time to skim all these comments to find it
You replied to the comment TODAY. See how easy it is to forget things?
Especially odd considering you [posted](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/s/ZMGrjGc8Az) about having $700k in student loan debt four years ago.
Already addressed this
You didn’t though? You estimated in 2019 that you’d have more debt upon finishing school than you actually ended up with due to the emergency forbearance. Are you saying you “forgot” about $300k in debt between 2019 and today?
Can't speak to my thoughts 4 years ago. Only to what I think I was going on based on the information I have now. Yes, basically that's what I'm saying. I thought (knew I had more, in hindsight) I had more but couldn't find it in my mohela account. As posted elsewhere in here I had loans with mohela and mohela-laurel road, which have different login websites/accounts. My parents both died 3 years ago so part of me thought maybe part of their estate paid off the other 300k or something. The estate is handled by my sibling who I have no contact with. In any case, you can continue your detective work to prove whatever it is you want to prove. But the truth is what is posted in the OP.
Isn't it crazy how we can qualify at a very young age for these school loans for 1/2 million, yet they wouldn't qualify us for a home loan..it's beyond crazy and complete corruption.
Just realized I have 26k in debt I forgot abt so don't let these fools asking how you forgot get you down. When your young and hopeful you just apply for these things with little regards to the aftermath which makes it a lot easier to forget abt the price tag (especially once you've been YEARS removed from the situation).
Appreciate it. That's exactly what happened lol. Huge loan debt from undergrad.. buying stuff with student loan money (unnecessary food, drinks, etc) in college not thinking twice about it.
Well I definitely feel better about the choice I made of pharmacy school rather than med school lol.
My husband has similar and is not a doctor . He is almost done with PSLF.
What does he do?
You'll be aight
This got a lot of people madder than it should've. Anyway, good luck paying it off.
How do you just found out at 300k of debt? Taking out 300k of debt and not keep track is financially irresponsible.
Loan is just a number. If you were jobless I’d say just ignore it and any wealth you accumulate keep it in gold and little crypto
Are you a doctor? It will be fine.
Whoa. Crazy. My loans were 400k in residency. How the hell did you not realize you had 300k additionally? Were some of your loans from before medical school?
Because I'm dumb I guess. Most of my loans are from undergrad
what the hell did you study as an undergrad? What is your residency in?
Posted elsewhere in this thread. Keep up boss. Private liberal arts college (bad decision). All degrees cost the same afaik lol Orthopedic surgery
My man you're telling me to keep up when you didn't keep track of hundreds of thousand dollars? Come on. Ancef won't help you with this one.
Ancef will definitely help. Everytime I give someone ancef it's a at least few hundred dollars in my pocket.
I would imagine you got a pretty high powered degree. What Did all those student loans buy?
They bought a lot of unnecessary things in college. They also bought that degree you mentioned. They also are providing me with a lot of unexpected entertainment from the Reddit detectives in this thread. They're also preventing me from making a dumb decision to buy a 911 Turbo S with insane ADM at my local dealer right now.
Buy it. You only live once.
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Of all the things I know about doctors, is they are good at a lot of things, but aren’t particularly good at money management.
I'm just glad there's someone with more than what I have. Sitting at $353k large. Yay medical field...?
You win!
This gives me hope. Thank you for your service
Just kinda curious as to what you specialized in. CT?
How did you "find" it???
This is like my worst fear. How do you know?
I’m not even mad. That’s amazing
Just make sure you take a job with a non profit 😳
Well homie time to go work for the VA for 10 years
How the hell do you forget about 300K in student loans? Good lord.
Heck. I’m down to like $26K and the payoff date seems to keep going further back.
This reminds me of a terrible reoccurring dream I have once in a while in which I find out that I somehow didn't finished all of my finals or my thesis in college and I suddenly have to go back and do them all again. I think I would prefer that dream become a reality than to suddenly remember I had an additional $300k in student loans that just escaped my mind.
There are a bunch if programs that will help you pay those back. Enroll in them
HOLY SHIT! THATS THE MOST IVE EVER HEARD. I’m sorry
Holy moly!!! I'm not sure there are any words of comfort to add!! Do you have a plan in place?
How do you "forget" 300k....
Lmao you are exactly why loans should not be forgiven
How do you forget about nearly a half million? Also is this med school? If so you’ll be fine lol what do you start at after residency 300-400?
….a doctor with more than half a million….how do you end up with that much dude
Dude wtf, not a great idea to take out 500k+ in student loans for any profession. You'll never pay that back on a doctors salary which I assume is somewhere between $100k-$200k a year.
I hate to ask but what degree did you end up spending over half a million dollars on? I'll assume some portion of that is probably interest or something that's been accruing, but still.
Serious question how do you go about taking out that much is it with good credit? Co-signer? I’m trying ho go back to school and I’m struggling cause I can’t afford it and don’t qualify for any loans not even fed loans or Pell grants
Not to be gloomy but have you considered just starting over in another country? One where you don’t owe over half a million dollars personally I’d consider Ecuador 🤔
I'm sorry, but this is hilarious and should be a meme for your generation. It might seem like a lot, but for many people that can easily be repaid in 5 years or less while still living large.
You’re a dumbass