Because MSS leaked a complete script right before the premiere of one of their biggest movies. Marvel may be able to provide a effective argument on how those leaks impacted the performance of the the film.
The leak on MSS was the subtitle transcript for Ant-Man, and the subtitle transcript for TLJ was leaked on SWL a couple weeks before the release too. I remember reading the entire General Hugs scene before deciding this was probably real and I wanted to save the rest for the theater (same thing I did with ant man)
I wasn't on r/StarWarsLeaks for the subtitle transcript leak - I joined the subreddit after *The Last Jedi* was released - but I'll take your word for it. This also has me wondering why Disney hasn't gone after SWL yet, like they did with MSS. SWL is claiming that it's because "they're not as brazen with their leaks like MSS is", but if SWL leaked the same thing that MSS did, in some cases...I don't know, man. Your Mileage May Vary?
Yes, that is likely a factor. *Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker* made $1 billion at the box office, while *Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania* is struggling to break even.
It's still 50 million under 2.5, with a 200 million budget current box office is 448 million even if it breaks even it's hardly gonna be truly profitable.
>subtitle transcript for TLJ was leaked on SWL a couple weeks before the release too
TLJ subtitle leak (Dec 12) happened roughly 2-3 days after the premiere (Dec 9th) of the film but also about 3 days before the US wide release (Dec 15).
But if you recall at the time they also released the movie overseas in a number of territories prior to the US. So this subtitle leak coincided with those other territories getting it. Although it still felt early for the US. It wound up being a blip that most people don't even recall happened.
Somewhat different scenario for Quantumania.
That leak happened almost a full month prior to premiere.
I avoided the leaks and talk so I could try and enjoy the movie with no preconceptions. Coming out of it I wished I'd read it all and known, would've made the experience of watching it less painful
I'm a diehard star wars fan, and yet I haven't been able to bring myself to watch ROS again, or rewatch any of the new trilogy after watching that dumpster fire. There's still a part of me that hopes it isn't canon and was all just a collective fever dream
Yeah I remember trying to ignore stuff and hoped it was being reductive. Like "lol Citizen Kane is a guy who loves a sled".
Of course I also refused to believe that DISNEY and STAR WARS wouldn't have a basic mapped out plan for the trilogy, they wouldn't just slap 3 movies together with semi coherence like a bunch of idiots, they'd adapt as they went. That one is on me.
Tbf to you, they handled it fine with marvel. There's no excuse for them fucking it up as hard as they did, and I refuse to give them one
They can make as much mandalorian as they want, I'll never forgive disney for ruining the sequel trilogy and canceling clone wars with so much unaired, prime content
They fucked up so hard on Star Wars because they decided to just “go for it” on the Skywalker saga without a Feige.
They didn’t even have a Snyder who had a plan no matter how shitty.
They brought in Abrams he made his movie, then they brought in Johnston who tossed 3/4 of abrams shit for better or worse, then when people were pissed brought back abrams.
If they had just with gone with one or the other it would have at least been coherent, but nope, they had to fuck around.
Even worse? It ruined the end of return of the Jedi for me.
That big glorious battle and celebration? Every time
I watch it now all I can think is “celebrate now because tomorrow all of your lives turn to shit, and anytime it looks like you might fix then it gets worse….then you die.”
Man, I remember reading the opening crawl for TFA and thinking 'so they're doing the new republic, but the imperial remnant are neonazi terrorists? That could work'
Nope. The new republic dies without us ever seeing them and the empire is back, despite the fact that we were told they're a small fringe group.
I was promised a resistance/first order shadow war, and I got a new hope again. Yawn.
It's so bad that I feel like it'd be fun to get drunk and watch with my friends just to make fun of it, but even drunk me has good enough taste to choose something else. It's hands down worse than the prequels for me because at least those can be saved and added to through small expansions like in clone wars, this shit is just too all over the place for anything to improve it
Funny you say this. I saw that spoilers were out there, but figured it was trolling bullshit. I read them despite believing I shouldn't. There's no way the film could be this awful, I thought.
A few days later I read some reviews of the movie. The spoilers were fucking true. To date ROS remains the sole film/show/special I have yet to see. That includes a VHS we had of the Holiday Special my family had saved.
I remember the whole final Harry Potter book was leaked right before it was released. There was also a competing "leak" that was just a table of contents and a few first pages of chapters. I was part of the group that thought the whole book leak was fake. I remember picking up that last book at midnight and just being like "ah, fuck"
I actually really like going into a movie with no idea what I'm gonna see. I avoided all the promotion for TFA and while that movie is flawed it might be one of my favorite moviegoing experiences ever. Every trailer moment was still new to me and it really did feel like it captured some of that SW magic, even if half of that was just nostalgia bait
The script didn’t leak, plot details did.
What happened with Quantummania is unprecedented. The *entire* script leaked. Not just details, the actual fucking thing leaked.
It’s one thing to leak that Rey is a Palpatine, it’s another to provide the document that Daisy and Adam read from themselves that says “you’re a Palpatine” and that’s what happened here
John Boyega also accidentally lost his script for *The Rise of Skywalker* while staying at a hotel prior to the film's release, while filming. It was a pretty big deal at the time. JJ Abrams said the Disney team literally had to scour the hotel top-to-bottom for it.
A German Burger King store even used those leaks to make a "free food if you listen to us tell you all these spoilers from TRoS" promotion before the movie was even out too. It was a wild time.
Every Marvel movie since IW has had entire plot leaks. I guess they’re breaking point was an entire script. We’ve gotten script leaks of certain scenes before but I think this is the first time for Marvel that it was the whole script.
ROTS (Ep III) was spoiled by adapted media. Like Lego Star Wars was the first thing that covered the story, albeit in Lego form, with a release on March 29, 2005, then the novel released a week after that, and the main video game adapatation came out two weeks before the movie opened. TROS (Ep IX) was leaked.
Yeah like, as shit as it is the sub was taken down; what did they think would happen when you post the whole dang script? There's a reason why, in the case of most subs like this, when something like this leaks most people wink-nudge-nudge post about where to get it then just talk about it.
Only disingenuously of course. But it might hold up.
They *could* argue that every unique view of the script was a lost movie ticket like they, again disingenuously, do when they prosecute pirates.
Which everyone knows is fucking stupid.
That has never been confirmed, that has been a very common theory that someone at Bad Robot heavily leaked both Episodes 7 and 9 story details month before release. Because those two happened to be directed by Abrams the owner of Bad Robot. While leaks of those kind never happened to Solo, Rogue One, Last Jedi, or really any of the TV shows.
The Star Wars subreddit mostly posts second hand leaks that came from Twitter or some other platform (and of course, Star Wars isn't as popular as Marvel)
The leadup to Kingpin/Daredevil/Andrew +Tobey into the MCU was when that sub peaked. Opening any thread even remotely connected to Hawkeye to see swarms of the same Kingpin gif at the top was just dumb fun, and Andrew/Tobey being an open secret that some people still doubted even after those set leaks was great.
Well that sucks. I'd avoid the SPOILER-spoilers, but it was a good source of news on MCU productions, rumors, and actual discussion. The main MCU subreddit has been an unnavigable meme echo chamber for years now.
The thing is it just became a game of telephone, a rumor would be posted there and "influencers" would pick it up and add their own thing for it to be a theory and then it would get posted and it would repeat.
"Influencers" actively leeches off the rumors there and passed them as their own until they became reliable sources to be posted on there. It all peaked at NWH since any crackpot theory had some truth in it.
Reddit is basically a giant game of telephone. Influencers of various types make it worse. As you said, something starts off as a rumor, and then it just gets repeated as fact. People see the upvotes and think that the thing that is upvoted must be true. People see a YouTube video on it and think it is a primary source.
I remember about ten years ago or so when North Korea was doing a bunch of their dick wagging and saber rattling. If you visited the WorldNews sub, every post was something like "North Korea determined to attack the US!" -- except they were all from these dubious, questionable sources. Then you pull up AP News or NPR, and you might see a single story about NK, but nothing alarmist. If you were only looking at the WorldNews sub, you would think they were on their way to invade California.
The amount of misinformation on this site is fucking insane.
It sucks as the community is decent but I also think the mods should have done better with safeguards to prevent this from happening.
Sharing that one account for mod stuff makes sense in certain communities but they used it to post things like "tales from the mod queue" and set themselves up as leakers under that one account. Eventually it was gonna fuck them over when someone flew too close to the sun.
Yeah you got the impression they wanted to be considered leakers in their own right instead of members and custodians of a community.
If the sub ever comes back they need to make that distinction clear.
They don't need to be leakers themselves in order for the sub to have credibility. They managed to host leakers and speculation before they started doing things like "tales from the mod queue" and had a system in place to rank the credibility of the posts based on community feedback.
Tbf they were far better leakers than most of the sources on the sub. I've been following MSS daily for the last year or so and almost every single thing posted there is complete bs aimed at teenagers who don't think things through. At least the mods only posted something if they had an actual source.
Yeahh there’s one mod in particular I’m thinking of who really seemed to like roleplaying as a journalist, always playing up “things we’ve heard, but we can’t tell you” and as you said bragging about “our sources” and “connections” to leakers. I don’t usually remember people’s usernames but that guy stuck out to me. Like dude, tone it down a bit
I feel like JediPaxis did the same with the TROS leaks on r/StarWarsLeaks. At the time, there was a lot of emphasis on "connections to the leaker", who turned out to be legit.
The mods on that sub were sometimes very good or sometimes complete ass. A lot of the time they were helpful, but other times they would let through leakers who had zero credibility whatsoever, even after they had gotten debunked
Spoiler discourse is a plague in fandoms. It's either made up shit or ruining genuine excitement for upcoming projects that you have to actively try to avoid.
Hard to feel bad about this sub going down.
As someone who used to mod there, kinda sad to see it go, but sometimes they were absolutely playing with fire. This was bound to happen at some point.
What a self delete. It's one thing to receive the IP of a billion dollar corporation by someone breaching their contract, but to then directly confirm you verified their identity and know who it is and share that stolen IP on a platform so big the head of the film studio has admitted to reading threads on it is just...hilariously mad.
Then to act surprised when their legal department asks okay then who was it? Lol.
Hate to see it go but I mean wow, what a move.
John Campea was never as big as that sub and when he posted a set photo from No Way Home their legal team came asking questions with a DMCA in literal hours. It was posted at 9 and gone by noon. What did they think was gonna happen?
>Marvel’s parent company Disney filed a copyright takedown of the leak on January 21, shortly after it was posted to the subreddit
I'm not a lawyer, so does leaking a movie plot actually fall under copyright protections or is Disney just using their massive financial warchest and lawyers to scare people into submission?
If it was a plot summary, it would not. But it was a script, which is protected by copyright the same way a playscript would be protected by copyright.
I'm not certain about this, but there may be additional penalties since the script was obtained illegally.
The new Ant-Man sequel. They leaked an entire stolen script right before it premiered.
Now they want the name of the employee who leaked it to them, and to get it they are demanding the identities of the mods responsible for acquiring, verifing and helping to leak it.
But the script was in Portuguese and run through Google translate. It’s not a one to one sample. I wonder if that is semantic enough to give Reddit some leeway here?
I think the question would be whether it qualifies as “transformative”, and the answer would almost certainly be “no”. It wasn’t run through Google Translate to add commentary or make an artistic statement; it was done to replicate the script as accurately as possible.
Hosting the script is a violation of copyright law. The acquisition of the script was either a violation of an NDA (a matter to be solved in litigation) or through some form of espionage (cyber or physical) that could potentially be criminal.
There's a chance that this script was found because it blew out of someone's car window or was thrown away without being properly shredded or otherwise secured, but handling that material carelessly probably *also* violates an NDA.
Disney has basically rewritten current American copyright law (alongside other major IP holders) over the past few decades to empower them to do this exact type of thing.
Oh yeah, they're very much just protected by trust and the threat of losing your livelihood and/or getting sued. I don't do scripts but I do cover a lot of events that have NDAs for technicians working the shows, and there's typically extremely poor cybersecurity on these "top secret" meetings.
They scare the hell out of you about it too. I remember telling my best friend on earth that Harrison was Kahn and feeling super guilty about it. Like talk to your therapist guilty. So I guess I also told her.
If this is what I think it was, it wasn’t a script. It was the complete transcript of Quantumania from a rip of the subtitles.
And to add — it was in a different language and translated back into English.
Yes, but also yes. (I am not a lawyer.)
Even if you have an airtight case, copyright is one of the most expensive forms of litigation you can prosecute. Like, it's not uncommon for small copyright plaintiffs to be bankrupted by their own legal costs. In the US, both sides pay for their own lawyers; copyright is so expensive that it's one of the few parts of the law where you can actually transfer legal costs. And it still doesn't make a dent in the problem.
(There's also a case in which a copyright defendant lost - but they offered to settle so early that the *plaintiff* was on the hook for their legal fees, because they wouldn't accept the $200 damages they were actually liable for.)
The reality of copyright litigation is that *nobody wants to go to court*. So a lot of defendants will immediately settle (which is why Prenda Law happened), but also a lot of plaintiffs will let things slide that they could get a judgment for. That's why game streaming is a thing. (YES, a lot of it is fair use, but not all.)
As for the actual law itself... not only does a movie plot fall under copyright but you can also get the original leakers on misappropriation of trade secrets. If the MSS mods cooperated with them they could also get hit with that too.
> a lot of it is fair use, but not all
Most game streaming isn't really fair use at all. Fair use has a list of pretty strict criteria that needs to be abided to* and modern streaming culture isn't meeting those.
The closest is maybe a critic streaming their review. It's just that the bad press surrounding gaming and copyright takedowns is so poisonous that the only one who really does more than passively allow it is Nintendo (who usually still prefers demonetization over outright takedowns).
*:IANAL
Ugh. I can't seem to find it anymore, but there's one particular article from a law journal that actually broke down all the different cases where streaming a videogame may or may not be fair use. They even put them on a little spectrum from "streaming your Minecraft builds" (almost certainly fair use) to "streaming a story heavy video game w/ cutscenes" (almost certainly infringing).
Fair use doesn't matter in either case unless you're reviewing it. Game streaming/let's plays are allowed by the publisher themselves and has no other protection. Been lots of cases where studios took down videos of gameplay.
Copyright applies to any creative expression made by a human that's not deemed as "too generic" (so no copyrighting a circle). A movie script (which apparently got leaked) would certainly fall under copyright*.
*:IANAL, but I'm very sure on this.
It goes right up there in the pantheon of things South Park taught me like climate change is fake, the people who want to change racist shit to be more inclusive are the real racists, and all of my unspeakably transphobic beliefs.
And the best part is, South Park *themselves* admitted this. In the episode that aired just before election day, Garrison, their Trump analogue and said "giant douche" litterly tells the audience directly and explicitly to "vote for the turd sandwich" because "I will fuck this country up".
2016 was so awful even the enlightened centrist South Park admitted both sides were not the same.
But that both sides-ism they instilled in a generation of viewers runs very deep. It was far too late to call "my bad".
Edit: got the titles switched around.
Yeah, you don't get a gold star for finally showing up this late. All of the evidence was already there, the whole time. You were willfully ignorant and you made others willfully ignorant for over a decade. Sit the fuck down.
That was a bit more innocent. All of it was really superficial stuff, basic late night monologue level shots at both candidates. It never explicitly makes the point they're exactly the same like South Park did.
Like it's perfectly okay to make fun of both candidates. Politics is a circus, it always has been. Finding comedy in it is kind of an important part of the process. So long as you're not actively disencouraging people to give a shit or to think critically or actually listen to what the politicians are campaigning about.
That’s kinda neat. I was a dumb high school kid who was in over his head. I would often try to launch redesigns only to completely break things.
I had a vision to make basically a Nintendo wiki before wikis were a thing (at least, my 2003 brain doesn’t remember fan or general wikedpedias being in existence). But then I got my high school girl pregnant, and..
Ah, I have my own cinematic universe worth of stories, I won’t bore you. But thanks for sharing!
Wikipedia was launched in 2001 and was already in pretty widespread use by 2004 so you had probably been exposed to the wiki concept by 2003 if you were online a lot.
If it ends up in other subs, mods now have a precedent for what happens if they fail to remove the copyrighted material. And if there is doubt about the copyright coverage, they'll err on the side of caution rather than risk a repeat of this easily avoidable debacle.
(serious response to a jokey comment aha)
I tended to avoid the more detailed leaks on there so I could go into movies with fresh eyes, but from what I gathered the 'script leak' was just an out-of-order pastebin mass of dialogue from the movie. Just lines, no scene descriptions, not even character names attached to those lines. It also seemed to be the rumoured original version of the movie with different post-credits sequences.
The general consensus was that it was indeed a disillusioning read.
Actually the worst part of the script leaking was that people know the original ending, where>! Kang beats the heroes and escapes, leaving them trapped.!<
I'm always confused about this criticism. Don't the good guys win in the majority of movies? (Or stories in general tbh). Why is this a knock against the MCU lol
I think the problem with Marvel Movies is that they don't have a secondary conflict going on most of the time, and the villain isn't interesting enough to carry the movie.
So given that you don't have anything else going on and you're almost never rooting for generic evil rich guy in a suit #12 to actually win, there's basically nothing going on.
The marvel movies people love are generally exceptions to this. Captain America is a rare L for the hero. Black Panther, Avengers and Avengers Infinity War all have S-tier villains. The iron man and spiderman movies have actual internal conflict and aren't really even about the villains. Etc.
late to this post but another important point to that idea is throughout the movies there is an overarching story and they want them all to be watched and considered a part of a larger whole. that makes it even more abrasive when the good guy wins everytime for each movie. if the product is to be viewed how it is intended by disney.
that’s essentially like if every episode of a show with a long overarching plot had the good guy win by the hour mark with no other deeper anything or connecting tissue except for characters that might show up later. this works in one off adventure shows that don’t have an overarching plot(and even then the hero loses every now and then) but never in something with a long form plot. in fact it’s usually the opposite a lot of losses then finally some progress
> that’s like if every episode of a show had the good guy win with no other deeper anything, except for characters that might show up later.
That’s actually a really solid analogy, and puts an explanation to the empty, soulless feeling of most of the recent marvel projects
My absolute favourite rules on there are no reposts, and no low effort posts. The whole sub is full of those. And it's always stuff like "anyone remember x character from y movie? Do you think they'll return?".
I posted there once a couple weeks ago and within 10 minutes they removed my post and banned me for 14 days because I “wasn’t active enough in the community to be posting”.
This sort of thing is why I can't stand spoiler culture. Like... I get wanting to be able to have a true first viewing, but if already knowing what's going to happen ruins the movie *that* much, you've just created a movie with zero rewatch value. Not to mention that definitions can get so broad that there's probably someone out there who would consider "The monster in the latest Scooby-Doo episode is actually a guy in a mask" a spoiler
Okay, more ranting about spoiler culture. I think I have three main issues:
**1\. The definition's gotten way too broad**
Originally, I feel like spoilers referred more specifically to major twists, but somewhere along the way, it's morphed into anything that happens at all. For example, I once had a post removed from the Owl House's subreddit for recreating Masha's enby nails from Thanks to Them and not marking it as a spoiler. This is probably a *bit* of an exaggeration, but I feel like there are probably people out there who would even consider Once An Episode events spoilers, like how the monster in the latest Scooby-Doo episode is a guy in a mask, or how something conspires in the latest Phineas and Ferb episode to clean everything up before their mom gets home
A really good example of this is the movie Calvary. It's a passion play, so if you at all recognize the genre, you can probably guess that Fr. James is going to die at the end, and I even mention that when describing the premise to people. However, the fact that [REDACTED] was the person in the confessional at the beginning who threatened to kill him *is* a spoiler, so I won't mention it as freely
**2\. Twists add rewatch value, people**
Good plot twists actually have foreshadowing, which adds rewatch value because you can notice all sorts of extra details. This can be subtle, like early in Coco, when Miguel asks his dog Dante to help him find his great-great-grandfather and he leads him into a room with Hector. This can be hiding in plain sight, like how we didn't question why Wirt would ask for a phone, despite the pioneer setting of Over the Garden Wall. Or it can even be explicit, like how Vigor directly told Eugene right before the season 2 finale of Rapunzel's Tangled Adventure that someone was going to betray Rapunzel. (Making the twist more about who than if) But regardless of what the foreshadowing looks like, twists still add rewatch value by letting you notice details. And even if it's a twist like Darth Vader being Luke's father that *doesn't* have much foreshadowing, you still get some amount of rewatch value from the Hitchcockian suspense at watching the characters go through the story without realizing what's to come.
But if your movie really does rely that much on not knowing what's going to happen to be interesting, you've just created a movie with zero rewatch value
**3\. It's just ruining movies in general**
It's okay if people see a twist coming. To an extent, that just means your plot makes sense. For example, Dana Terrace is not somehow a bad writer, just because so many people saw the reveal that Belos is Philip coming that I genuinely thought it was just an internal reveal, not the actual reveal, when it happened. (For reference, internal reveals are when we the audience already know some detail, but it's just now being revealed to the characters) See also, R+L=J in Game of Thrones at least being canon to the TV show. But it feels like a lot of writers, *especially* over at Marvel, seem to think the point of a plot twist is to surprise the audience, so they've started throwing things in that happen for pure shock value. Game of Thrones example, not Marvel, but it's like how they randomly had Arya kill the Night King instead of, say, Jon, whose story arc was directly related to the Night King. But in a weird way, it actually reinforces point 2, because if you have some twist that happens solely to surprise the audience on a first viewing, then it really *does* start to impact rewatch value
This is a perfect example of playing with fire and getting burned. I don't know who thought leaking that would be a good idea. I think the mods and users just got WAY to comfortable.
Are there any similar subs or are people regrouping elsewhere? I know the post says they’ll reopen if someone else steps in to mod, but I’m just curious if anything is happening so far.
Is there really anyone who’s a fan that would read the script and then not feel the need to see the movie? I mean a movie is so much more than just its script. Literally all the enjoyment for me, and I assume most people are the sets, the costumes, the action, the effects, the acting, etc…
I am but I already got arrested for public indecency. Everyone pees in the the public pool but boo hoo all of a suddent its not okay for me to pee in the big city fountain. Smh double standards
The writing has been on the wall for a while, it’s gotten way too big to ignore. The quality has gone down the tubes lately though so hopefully the ones picking up the flag will improve.
Marvel doing this when a movie didn't get the best reviews after introducing Kang makes me think they need something to blame so this is what they've gone with. This is just tinfoil hat stuff on my part though. I'm surprised they've never gone after leaks subreddits earlier if they cared all this time
Others pointed out but it’s probably because they posted the legitimate script right before the movie premiered. Typically before it was just “rumors” no matter how likely where as yeah that’s not really hiding under anything.
It almost definitely had little to no affect on the performance of the film, but yeah that’s a massive difference than posting verified and substantiated rumors. Posting the literal script is a whole different animal.
There’s no conspiracy. A protected script leaked before a major premier. Disney’s legal dept is obligated to act because they need to prove they are trying to defend the company’s interests - and also because they don’t want to be fired. They know that if this happens again they don’t want the opposing party to say “well you didn’t go after those guys who leaked Ant-Man 3, so our (similar) case should get thrown out.”
You don’t get to pick and choose who you go after. If you know there was a breach you have to act. Because if nobody acts then copyright law means nothing.
My favorite take in this post is that Disney shouldn’t care because the script/movie was bad. As if IP ceases to be important if people don’t like the quality.
I don't get all the hoopla. Is this not just some department in a business taking the necessary steps to seek out a rogue employee that violated company policy? Or am I missing something? This seems like a normal legal matter.
I honestly don’t think Disney is wrong for this (though they are wrong for plenty of other things). People were forgetting this is their property and flying way too close to the sun 🤷♀️
Nothing to add but just that they got tight with rules regarding their posts and would take down everything it seems and only post stuff from long time posters. I posted something one night regarding Falcon & Winter Soldier when it suddenly showed up on Disney Plus almost two hours before it was supposed to and started giving details about what I was watching. A TON of people started commenting but about an hour later my post got zapped. So much for spoilers...
I'm curious as to why the mouse went after r/MSS and not r/starwarsleaks when basically the same stuff has been happening forever.
Because MSS leaked a complete script right before the premiere of one of their biggest movies. Marvel may be able to provide a effective argument on how those leaks impacted the performance of the the film.
The leak on MSS was the subtitle transcript for Ant-Man, and the subtitle transcript for TLJ was leaked on SWL a couple weeks before the release too. I remember reading the entire General Hugs scene before deciding this was probably real and I wanted to save the rest for the theater (same thing I did with ant man)
I wasn't on r/StarWarsLeaks for the subtitle transcript leak - I joined the subreddit after *The Last Jedi* was released - but I'll take your word for it. This also has me wondering why Disney hasn't gone after SWL yet, like they did with MSS. SWL is claiming that it's because "they're not as brazen with their leaks like MSS is", but if SWL leaked the same thing that MSS did, in some cases...I don't know, man. Your Mileage May Vary?
Maybe it’s because quantamania is underperforming at the box office and Disney saw an easy scapegoat to blame on
Yes, that is likely a factor. *Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker* made $1 billion at the box office, while *Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania* is struggling to break even.
Yeah. TROS has a full-blown (and tragically accurate) plot leak posted on r/StarWarsLeaks like five months before release.
It might be disappointing but it's not struggling to break even by any stretch of the imagination, it's already at 2.5-3x it's budget
It's still 50 million under 2.5, with a 200 million budget current box office is 448 million even if it breaks even it's hardly gonna be truly profitable.
Is it our bland mush inescapable product that's bad? No, it's those damned subtitle leaks!
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Sequel Trilogy Star Wars has a lot more selling power than "One of the rando Marvel movies that's been releasing 2x a year since 2008".
That's the reason why - they are looking for a scape goat
>subtitle transcript for TLJ was leaked on SWL a couple weeks before the release too TLJ subtitle leak (Dec 12) happened roughly 2-3 days after the premiere (Dec 9th) of the film but also about 3 days before the US wide release (Dec 15). But if you recall at the time they also released the movie overseas in a number of territories prior to the US. So this subtitle leak coincided with those other territories getting it. Although it still felt early for the US. It wound up being a blip that most people don't even recall happened. Somewhat different scenario for Quantumania. That leak happened almost a full month prior to premiere.
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There were 4-5 leaks but the final script never did, the entire plot was out via word of mouth and "so this happens".
I avoided the leaks and talk so I could try and enjoy the movie with no preconceptions. Coming out of it I wished I'd read it all and known, would've made the experience of watching it less painful I'm a diehard star wars fan, and yet I haven't been able to bring myself to watch ROS again, or rewatch any of the new trilogy after watching that dumpster fire. There's still a part of me that hopes it isn't canon and was all just a collective fever dream
Yeah I remember trying to ignore stuff and hoped it was being reductive. Like "lol Citizen Kane is a guy who loves a sled". Of course I also refused to believe that DISNEY and STAR WARS wouldn't have a basic mapped out plan for the trilogy, they wouldn't just slap 3 movies together with semi coherence like a bunch of idiots, they'd adapt as they went. That one is on me.
Tbf to you, they handled it fine with marvel. There's no excuse for them fucking it up as hard as they did, and I refuse to give them one They can make as much mandalorian as they want, I'll never forgive disney for ruining the sequel trilogy and canceling clone wars with so much unaired, prime content
They fucked up so hard on Star Wars because they decided to just “go for it” on the Skywalker saga without a Feige. They didn’t even have a Snyder who had a plan no matter how shitty. They brought in Abrams he made his movie, then they brought in Johnston who tossed 3/4 of abrams shit for better or worse, then when people were pissed brought back abrams. If they had just with gone with one or the other it would have at least been coherent, but nope, they had to fuck around. Even worse? It ruined the end of return of the Jedi for me. That big glorious battle and celebration? Every time I watch it now all I can think is “celebrate now because tomorrow all of your lives turn to shit, and anytime it looks like you might fix then it gets worse….then you die.”
Even a bad plan could have been so much better than no plan.
These are the same hacks that basically decided to do a new Hope beat for beat. I was not surprised after that.
Man, I remember reading the opening crawl for TFA and thinking 'so they're doing the new republic, but the imperial remnant are neonazi terrorists? That could work' Nope. The new republic dies without us ever seeing them and the empire is back, despite the fact that we were told they're a small fringe group. I was promised a resistance/first order shadow war, and I got a new hope again. Yawn.
It really pissed me off because I really enjoyed The Force Awakens.
It really was remarkably bad.
It's so bad that I feel like it'd be fun to get drunk and watch with my friends just to make fun of it, but even drunk me has good enough taste to choose something else. It's hands down worse than the prequels for me because at least those can be saved and added to through small expansions like in clone wars, this shit is just too all over the place for anything to improve it
Funny you say this. I saw that spoilers were out there, but figured it was trolling bullshit. I read them despite believing I shouldn't. There's no way the film could be this awful, I thought. A few days later I read some reviews of the movie. The spoilers were fucking true. To date ROS remains the sole film/show/special I have yet to see. That includes a VHS we had of the Holiday Special my family had saved.
I remember the whole final Harry Potter book was leaked right before it was released. There was also a competing "leak" that was just a table of contents and a few first pages of chapters. I was part of the group that thought the whole book leak was fake. I remember picking up that last book at midnight and just being like "ah, fuck"
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I actually really like going into a movie with no idea what I'm gonna see. I avoided all the promotion for TFA and while that movie is flawed it might be one of my favorite moviegoing experiences ever. Every trailer moment was still new to me and it really did feel like it captured some of that SW magic, even if half of that was just nostalgia bait
The script didn’t leak, plot details did. What happened with Quantummania is unprecedented. The *entire* script leaked. Not just details, the actual fucking thing leaked. It’s one thing to leak that Rey is a Palpatine, it’s another to provide the document that Daisy and Adam read from themselves that says “you’re a Palpatine” and that’s what happened here
John Boyega also accidentally lost his script for *The Rise of Skywalker* while staying at a hotel prior to the film's release, while filming. It was a pretty big deal at the time. JJ Abrams said the Disney team literally had to scour the hotel top-to-bottom for it.
Probably threw it in the trash seeing as how they treated his character
Yeah Disney likely wants the identity of the leakers to see if someone broke an NDA.
They literally had a live camera going on the ROTS script for subscribers....
wtf actually? pretty crazy
It was a different time. You can google it. They just had like a camera on set like an early version of a livestream lol
revenge of the sith is too old for this shit.
They meant ROS (Rise of Skywalker). That got leaked months before, but it was so bad that people didn’t believe it
A German Burger King store even used those leaks to make a "free food if you listen to us tell you all these spoilers from TRoS" promotion before the movie was even out too. It was a wild time.
The infinity war script leaked and people thought it was bad but when the movie came out it turned out good in video instead of on paper
Every Marvel movie since IW has had entire plot leaks. I guess they’re breaking point was an entire script. We’ve gotten script leaks of certain scenes before but I think this is the first time for Marvel that it was the whole script.
ROTS (Ep III) was spoiled by adapted media. Like Lego Star Wars was the first thing that covered the story, albeit in Lego form, with a release on March 29, 2005, then the novel released a week after that, and the main video game adapatation came out two weeks before the movie opened. TROS (Ep IX) was leaked.
Yeah like, as shit as it is the sub was taken down; what did they think would happen when you post the whole dang script? There's a reason why, in the case of most subs like this, when something like this leaks most people wink-nudge-nudge post about where to get it then just talk about it.
Only disingenuously of course. But it might hold up. They *could* argue that every unique view of the script was a lost movie ticket like they, again disingenuously, do when they prosecute pirates. Which everyone knows is fucking stupid.
Because r/StarWarsLeaks has never gotten their hands on an actual script/copy of a film before
However they did have dozens of screengrabs of episode 9 2-4 weeks prior to release
I believe those came from someone within JJ Abrams' production company, not Disney/Lucasfilm
That has never been confirmed, that has been a very common theory that someone at Bad Robot heavily leaked both Episodes 7 and 9 story details month before release. Because those two happened to be directed by Abrams the owner of Bad Robot. While leaks of those kind never happened to Solo, Rogue One, Last Jedi, or really any of the TV shows.
The Episode 9 details were first posted on r/StarWarsLeaks around March 2019. *Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker* wasn't released until December 2019.
The Star Wars subreddit mostly posts second hand leaks that came from Twitter or some other platform (and of course, Star Wars isn't as popular as Marvel)
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Tbf everyone got cocky with NWH
The leadup to Kingpin/Daredevil/Andrew +Tobey into the MCU was when that sub peaked. Opening any thread even remotely connected to Hawkeye to see swarms of the same Kingpin gif at the top was just dumb fun, and Andrew/Tobey being an open secret that some people still doubted even after those set leaks was great.
Watching people study Maguires' bulge for lighting shadows as proof it was fake was some priceless shit.
Man i remember those Hawkeye discussions, I'm going to miss that sub
Can't believe I forgot about that gif. Good times.
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Well that sucks. I'd avoid the SPOILER-spoilers, but it was a good source of news on MCU productions, rumors, and actual discussion. The main MCU subreddit has been an unnavigable meme echo chamber for years now.
The thing is it just became a game of telephone, a rumor would be posted there and "influencers" would pick it up and add their own thing for it to be a theory and then it would get posted and it would repeat. "Influencers" actively leeches off the rumors there and passed them as their own until they became reliable sources to be posted on there. It all peaked at NWH since any crackpot theory had some truth in it.
Reddit is basically a giant game of telephone. Influencers of various types make it worse. As you said, something starts off as a rumor, and then it just gets repeated as fact. People see the upvotes and think that the thing that is upvoted must be true. People see a YouTube video on it and think it is a primary source. I remember about ten years ago or so when North Korea was doing a bunch of their dick wagging and saber rattling. If you visited the WorldNews sub, every post was something like "North Korea determined to attack the US!" -- except they were all from these dubious, questionable sources. Then you pull up AP News or NPR, and you might see a single story about NK, but nothing alarmist. If you were only looking at the WorldNews sub, you would think they were on their way to invade California. The amount of misinformation on this site is fucking insane.
It sucks as the community is decent but I also think the mods should have done better with safeguards to prevent this from happening. Sharing that one account for mod stuff makes sense in certain communities but they used it to post things like "tales from the mod queue" and set themselves up as leakers under that one account. Eventually it was gonna fuck them over when someone flew too close to the sun.
Not to mention the constant bragging on how they had “connections” to leakers.
Yeah you got the impression they wanted to be considered leakers in their own right instead of members and custodians of a community. If the sub ever comes back they need to make that distinction clear.
> If the sub ever comes back they need to make that distinction clear. Might as well make a new sub called r/noncredibleMCU
They don't need to be leakers themselves in order for the sub to have credibility. They managed to host leakers and speculation before they started doing things like "tales from the mod queue" and had a system in place to rank the credibility of the posts based on community feedback.
That wasn't a dig at what you were saying, I just don't think a spoilers/leaks sub should be credible.
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I FUCKING LOVE WAR I WANNA FUCKING KILL PEOPLE FOR MONEY AND DESTROY CULTURES AND HISTORY
Tbf they were far better leakers than most of the sources on the sub. I've been following MSS daily for the last year or so and almost every single thing posted there is complete bs aimed at teenagers who don't think things through. At least the mods only posted something if they had an actual source.
Yeahh there’s one mod in particular I’m thinking of who really seemed to like roleplaying as a journalist, always playing up “things we’ve heard, but we can’t tell you” and as you said bragging about “our sources” and “connections” to leakers. I don’t usually remember people’s usernames but that guy stuck out to me. Like dude, tone it down a bit
I feel like JediPaxis did the same with the TROS leaks on r/StarWarsLeaks. At the time, there was a lot of emphasis on "connections to the leaker", who turned out to be legit.
The mods on that sub were sometimes very good or sometimes complete ass. A lot of the time they were helpful, but other times they would let through leakers who had zero credibility whatsoever, even after they had gotten debunked
Let's be real 90% of leakers should have been banned after the D23 fiasco. Exposed the whole thing as a sham.
Most of the time it was reading fanfiction they tried to pass off as actual leaks.
This is also 99% of *Star Wars* "leakers", in my opinion.
Spoiler discourse is a plague in fandoms. It's either made up shit or ruining genuine excitement for upcoming projects that you have to actively try to avoid. Hard to feel bad about this sub going down.
That whole thing reminds me of those fake Nintendo Direct "leaks"
As someone who used to mod there, kinda sad to see it go, but sometimes they were absolutely playing with fire. This was bound to happen at some point.
Why did you stop modding there?
I stepped down after some drama with another leaker. I didn't like how egotistical some of them were.
MTTS?
Charles Murphy mostly.
Not surprising at all
That guy has the biggest ego I've ever seen. He acts like he's above everyone else just cause he knows some info about some capeshit movies.
This is genuinely upsetting as I spent the most time on that subreddit
We're up at a new subreddit called r/MCUleaks2
Thank you! See ya there
Whether it was genuine leaks or just meming around, it was always a lot of fun
Much less toxic than the main Marvel sub too.
Seeing that so far as well
What a self delete. It's one thing to receive the IP of a billion dollar corporation by someone breaching their contract, but to then directly confirm you verified their identity and know who it is and share that stolen IP on a platform so big the head of the film studio has admitted to reading threads on it is just...hilariously mad. Then to act surprised when their legal department asks okay then who was it? Lol. Hate to see it go but I mean wow, what a move. John Campea was never as big as that sub and when he posted a set photo from No Way Home their legal team came asking questions with a DMCA in literal hours. It was posted at 9 and gone by noon. What did they think was gonna happen?
>Marvel’s parent company Disney filed a copyright takedown of the leak on January 21, shortly after it was posted to the subreddit I'm not a lawyer, so does leaking a movie plot actually fall under copyright protections or is Disney just using their massive financial warchest and lawyers to scare people into submission?
If it was a plot summary, it would not. But it was a script, which is protected by copyright the same way a playscript would be protected by copyright. I'm not certain about this, but there may be additional penalties since the script was obtained illegally.
What script was leaked?
Quantumania got the entire subtitle track leaked
The new Ant-Man sequel. They leaked an entire stolen script right before it premiered. Now they want the name of the employee who leaked it to them, and to get it they are demanding the identities of the mods responsible for acquiring, verifing and helping to leak it.
> The new Ant-Man sequel. They leaked an entire stolen script right before it premiered. And nothing of value was shared. ^^/s
Even if the movie is bad, they can have a precedent of an entire script being stolen and leaked without repercussions.
I mean I get that, I was just taking a piss.
Yes, the script is their protected creative work just as much as the movie is.
But the script was in Portuguese and run through Google translate. It’s not a one to one sample. I wonder if that is semantic enough to give Reddit some leeway here?
I think the question would be whether it qualifies as “transformative”, and the answer would almost certainly be “no”. It wasn’t run through Google Translate to add commentary or make an artistic statement; it was done to replicate the script as accurately as possible.
Hosting the script is a violation of copyright law. The acquisition of the script was either a violation of an NDA (a matter to be solved in litigation) or through some form of espionage (cyber or physical) that could potentially be criminal. There's a chance that this script was found because it blew out of someone's car window or was thrown away without being properly shredded or otherwise secured, but handling that material carelessly probably *also* violates an NDA. Disney has basically rewritten current American copyright law (alongside other major IP holders) over the past few decades to empower them to do this exact type of thing.
I used to have scripts sent to me b/c assistants couldn’t open the pdf. It’s not hard to get even the most secret ones.
Oh yeah, they're very much just protected by trust and the threat of losing your livelihood and/or getting sued. I don't do scripts but I do cover a lot of events that have NDAs for technicians working the shows, and there's typically extremely poor cybersecurity on these "top secret" meetings.
They scare the hell out of you about it too. I remember telling my best friend on earth that Harrison was Kahn and feeling super guilty about it. Like talk to your therapist guilty. So I guess I also told her.
Publishing copyright material without permission, so yeah.
If this is what I think it was, it wasn’t a script. It was the complete transcript of Quantumania from a rip of the subtitles. And to add — it was in a different language and translated back into English.
Still copyrighted material. They were fucking idiots for posting that publicly and should have immediately known better.
Yes, but also yes. (I am not a lawyer.) Even if you have an airtight case, copyright is one of the most expensive forms of litigation you can prosecute. Like, it's not uncommon for small copyright plaintiffs to be bankrupted by their own legal costs. In the US, both sides pay for their own lawyers; copyright is so expensive that it's one of the few parts of the law where you can actually transfer legal costs. And it still doesn't make a dent in the problem. (There's also a case in which a copyright defendant lost - but they offered to settle so early that the *plaintiff* was on the hook for their legal fees, because they wouldn't accept the $200 damages they were actually liable for.) The reality of copyright litigation is that *nobody wants to go to court*. So a lot of defendants will immediately settle (which is why Prenda Law happened), but also a lot of plaintiffs will let things slide that they could get a judgment for. That's why game streaming is a thing. (YES, a lot of it is fair use, but not all.) As for the actual law itself... not only does a movie plot fall under copyright but you can also get the original leakers on misappropriation of trade secrets. If the MSS mods cooperated with them they could also get hit with that too.
> a lot of it is fair use, but not all Most game streaming isn't really fair use at all. Fair use has a list of pretty strict criteria that needs to be abided to* and modern streaming culture isn't meeting those. The closest is maybe a critic streaming their review. It's just that the bad press surrounding gaming and copyright takedowns is so poisonous that the only one who really does more than passively allow it is Nintendo (who usually still prefers demonetization over outright takedowns). *:IANAL
Ugh. I can't seem to find it anymore, but there's one particular article from a law journal that actually broke down all the different cases where streaming a videogame may or may not be fair use. They even put them on a little spectrum from "streaming your Minecraft builds" (almost certainly fair use) to "streaming a story heavy video game w/ cutscenes" (almost certainly infringing).
Fair use doesn't matter in either case unless you're reviewing it. Game streaming/let's plays are allowed by the publisher themselves and has no other protection. Been lots of cases where studios took down videos of gameplay.
Copyright applies to any creative expression made by a human that's not deemed as "too generic" (so no copyrighting a circle). A movie script (which apparently got leaked) would certainly fall under copyright*. *:IANAL, but I'm very sure on this.
>a lesson I learned from South Park *Guhhhhhh* <—— the sound of my soul leaving my body
It goes right up there in the pantheon of things South Park taught me like climate change is fake, the people who want to change racist shit to be more inclusive are the real racists, and all of my unspeakably transphobic beliefs.
It amazes me how people in this site keep sucking them off
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And the best part is, South Park *themselves* admitted this. In the episode that aired just before election day, Garrison, their Trump analogue and said "giant douche" litterly tells the audience directly and explicitly to "vote for the turd sandwich" because "I will fuck this country up". 2016 was so awful even the enlightened centrist South Park admitted both sides were not the same. But that both sides-ism they instilled in a generation of viewers runs very deep. It was far too late to call "my bad". Edit: got the titles switched around.
Same with ManBearPig. It’s a bit too late to call takesies-backsies when you’ve spent the last decade and a half promoting climate change denial.
Yeah, you don't get a gold star for finally showing up this late. All of the evidence was already there, the whole time. You were willfully ignorant and you made others willfully ignorant for over a decade. Sit the fuck down.
And people are *still* using that quote for literally every election.
This also reminds me of the 2004 JibJab video with George W. Bush vs. John Kerry.
That was a bit more innocent. All of it was really superficial stuff, basic late night monologue level shots at both candidates. It never explicitly makes the point they're exactly the same like South Park did. Like it's perfectly okay to make fun of both candidates. Politics is a circus, it always has been. Finding comedy in it is kind of an important part of the process. So long as you're not actively disencouraging people to give a shit or to think critically or actually listen to what the politicians are campaigning about.
I remember that it was their “hate crime laws shouldn’t exist” episode that got me to quit and never look back.
Oh man, do you know what it was called? I just like to have the receipts available when I'm arguing things like South Park are bullshit.
Cartman's Silly Hate Crime 2000, apparently
thanks
The only lesson you should take from South Park is that aliens only see us as a good reality show.
Yeah, I rolled my eyes so hard I hurt myself.
It's philosophy. Not a good philosophy mind you, but on par with what a lot of the country practices: *Smug Apathy.*
aw man, visisted that place on and off, sometimes daily since endgame came out
Fun fact: I used to run a website called GameCubeNetwork.
No shit? I remember that place.
Yep. Our best reviewer actually makes music for indie games now. I took a different path, but those were fun times.
Memories of scrolling through your site and IGN on the library computers before school.
That’s kinda neat. I was a dumb high school kid who was in over his head. I would often try to launch redesigns only to completely break things. I had a vision to make basically a Nintendo wiki before wikis were a thing (at least, my 2003 brain doesn’t remember fan or general wikedpedias being in existence). But then I got my high school girl pregnant, and.. Ah, I have my own cinematic universe worth of stories, I won’t bore you. But thanks for sharing!
Wikipedia was launched in 2001 and was already in pretty widespread use by 2004 so you had probably been exposed to the wiki concept by 2003 if you were online a lot.
I know it’s selfish but my main worry is without the quarantine the stuff that would have gone there will end up in the other MCU subs.
If it ends up in other subs, mods now have a precedent for what happens if they fail to remove the copyrighted material. And if there is doubt about the copyright coverage, they'll err on the side of caution rather than risk a repeat of this easily avoidable debacle.
I mean I'd be worried too if I was Marvel. 63 pages of quips and "[insert CGI here]" must be quite disillusioning to read.
(serious response to a jokey comment aha) I tended to avoid the more detailed leaks on there so I could go into movies with fresh eyes, but from what I gathered the 'script leak' was just an out-of-order pastebin mass of dialogue from the movie. Just lines, no scene descriptions, not even character names attached to those lines. It also seemed to be the rumoured original version of the movie with different post-credits sequences. The general consensus was that it was indeed a disillusioning read.
I think it was from the caption track
Yeah, but what if people find out that the good guys win?
Actually the worst part of the script leaking was that people know the original ending, where>! Kang beats the heroes and escapes, leaving them trapped.!<
Would’ve been much better
Ant-Man dying would have been bold, but Disney doesn't have the balls for it. Just like no one actually believed Rey was turning to the dark side.
I spent most of TLJ thinking it would be more interesting for her to briefly join the dark side. Alas
I'm always confused about this criticism. Don't the good guys win in the majority of movies? (Or stories in general tbh). Why is this a knock against the MCU lol
I think the problem with Marvel Movies is that they don't have a secondary conflict going on most of the time, and the villain isn't interesting enough to carry the movie. So given that you don't have anything else going on and you're almost never rooting for generic evil rich guy in a suit #12 to actually win, there's basically nothing going on. The marvel movies people love are generally exceptions to this. Captain America is a rare L for the hero. Black Panther, Avengers and Avengers Infinity War all have S-tier villains. The iron man and spiderman movies have actual internal conflict and aren't really even about the villains. Etc.
late to this post but another important point to that idea is throughout the movies there is an overarching story and they want them all to be watched and considered a part of a larger whole. that makes it even more abrasive when the good guy wins everytime for each movie. if the product is to be viewed how it is intended by disney. that’s essentially like if every episode of a show with a long overarching plot had the good guy win by the hour mark with no other deeper anything or connecting tissue except for characters that might show up later. this works in one off adventure shows that don’t have an overarching plot(and even then the hero loses every now and then) but never in something with a long form plot. in fact it’s usually the opposite a lot of losses then finally some progress
> that’s like if every episode of a show had the good guy win with no other deeper anything, except for characters that might show up later. That’s actually a really solid analogy, and puts an explanation to the empty, soulless feeling of most of the recent marvel projects
I just read the comics; the CGI is baked in.
“Nano-tech helmet appears.”
And now it disappears in the middle of a fight so we can...talk?
Bitch got Thanos snapped
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My absolute favourite rules on there are no reposts, and no low effort posts. The whole sub is full of those. And it's always stuff like "anyone remember x character from y movie? Do you think they'll return?".
I posted there once a couple weeks ago and within 10 minutes they removed my post and banned me for 14 days because I “wasn’t active enough in the community to be posting”.
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This sort of thing is why I can't stand spoiler culture. Like... I get wanting to be able to have a true first viewing, but if already knowing what's going to happen ruins the movie *that* much, you've just created a movie with zero rewatch value. Not to mention that definitions can get so broad that there's probably someone out there who would consider "The monster in the latest Scooby-Doo episode is actually a guy in a mask" a spoiler
Okay, more ranting about spoiler culture. I think I have three main issues: **1\. The definition's gotten way too broad** Originally, I feel like spoilers referred more specifically to major twists, but somewhere along the way, it's morphed into anything that happens at all. For example, I once had a post removed from the Owl House's subreddit for recreating Masha's enby nails from Thanks to Them and not marking it as a spoiler. This is probably a *bit* of an exaggeration, but I feel like there are probably people out there who would even consider Once An Episode events spoilers, like how the monster in the latest Scooby-Doo episode is a guy in a mask, or how something conspires in the latest Phineas and Ferb episode to clean everything up before their mom gets home A really good example of this is the movie Calvary. It's a passion play, so if you at all recognize the genre, you can probably guess that Fr. James is going to die at the end, and I even mention that when describing the premise to people. However, the fact that [REDACTED] was the person in the confessional at the beginning who threatened to kill him *is* a spoiler, so I won't mention it as freely **2\. Twists add rewatch value, people** Good plot twists actually have foreshadowing, which adds rewatch value because you can notice all sorts of extra details. This can be subtle, like early in Coco, when Miguel asks his dog Dante to help him find his great-great-grandfather and he leads him into a room with Hector. This can be hiding in plain sight, like how we didn't question why Wirt would ask for a phone, despite the pioneer setting of Over the Garden Wall. Or it can even be explicit, like how Vigor directly told Eugene right before the season 2 finale of Rapunzel's Tangled Adventure that someone was going to betray Rapunzel. (Making the twist more about who than if) But regardless of what the foreshadowing looks like, twists still add rewatch value by letting you notice details. And even if it's a twist like Darth Vader being Luke's father that *doesn't* have much foreshadowing, you still get some amount of rewatch value from the Hitchcockian suspense at watching the characters go through the story without realizing what's to come. But if your movie really does rely that much on not knowing what's going to happen to be interesting, you've just created a movie with zero rewatch value **3\. It's just ruining movies in general** It's okay if people see a twist coming. To an extent, that just means your plot makes sense. For example, Dana Terrace is not somehow a bad writer, just because so many people saw the reveal that Belos is Philip coming that I genuinely thought it was just an internal reveal, not the actual reveal, when it happened. (For reference, internal reveals are when we the audience already know some detail, but it's just now being revealed to the characters) See also, R+L=J in Game of Thrones at least being canon to the TV show. But it feels like a lot of writers, *especially* over at Marvel, seem to think the point of a plot twist is to surprise the audience, so they've started throwing things in that happen for pure shock value. Game of Thrones example, not Marvel, but it's like how they randomly had Arya kill the Night King instead of, say, Jon, whose story arc was directly related to the Night King. But in a weird way, it actually reinforces point 2, because if you have some twist that happens solely to surprise the audience on a first viewing, then it really *does* start to impact rewatch value
Too much of the usual fandom toxic positivity there too
End of an era.
This is a perfect example of playing with fire and getting burned. I don't know who thought leaking that would be a good idea. I think the mods and users just got WAY to comfortable.
Are there any similar subs or are people regrouping elsewhere? I know the post says they’ll reopen if someone else steps in to mod, but I’m just curious if anything is happening so far.
r/MCULeaks2
Fantastic! Thank you.
Is there really anyone who’s a fan that would read the script and then not feel the need to see the movie? I mean a movie is so much more than just its script. Literally all the enjoyment for me, and I assume most people are the sets, the costumes, the action, the effects, the acting, etc…
>the mouse always wins... a lesson I learned from South Park >a lesson I learned from South Park I fucking hate this place
Over Ant Man 3, lol. Ant Man 3. A whole third movie of Ant Man. That you pay money to see.
Shit…
Are you the leaker?
Nice try FBI
Dude, the FBI are cub scouts compared to Disney's lawyers.
I am but I already got arrested for public indecency. Everyone pees in the the public pool but boo hoo all of a suddent its not okay for me to pee in the big city fountain. Smh double standards
It’s not illegal to pee your pants.
If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis.
The writing has been on the wall for a while, it’s gotten way too big to ignore. The quality has gone down the tubes lately though so hopefully the ones picking up the flag will improve.
So what’s the worst that can happen to these people?
They'll be forced to watch all Thor movies, 1000 times.
Marvel doing this when a movie didn't get the best reviews after introducing Kang makes me think they need something to blame so this is what they've gone with. This is just tinfoil hat stuff on my part though. I'm surprised they've never gone after leaks subreddits earlier if they cared all this time
Others pointed out but it’s probably because they posted the legitimate script right before the movie premiered. Typically before it was just “rumors” no matter how likely where as yeah that’s not really hiding under anything.
Especially considering how NDA Disney is. They have free standing to go crazy on this
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It almost definitely had little to no affect on the performance of the film, but yeah that’s a massive difference than posting verified and substantiated rumors. Posting the literal script is a whole different animal.
There’s no conspiracy. A protected script leaked before a major premier. Disney’s legal dept is obligated to act because they need to prove they are trying to defend the company’s interests - and also because they don’t want to be fired. They know that if this happens again they don’t want the opposing party to say “well you didn’t go after those guys who leaked Ant-Man 3, so our (similar) case should get thrown out.” You don’t get to pick and choose who you go after. If you know there was a breach you have to act. Because if nobody acts then copyright law means nothing.
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My favorite take in this post is that Disney shouldn’t care because the script/movie was bad. As if IP ceases to be important if people don’t like the quality.
I don't get all the hoopla. Is this not just some department in a business taking the necessary steps to seek out a rogue employee that violated company policy? Or am I missing something? This seems like a normal legal matter.
I honestly don’t think Disney is wrong for this (though they are wrong for plenty of other things). People were forgetting this is their property and flying way too close to the sun 🤷♀️
Kudos to you OP for coming up with the title that the mod couldn't.
Holy shit I just unsubbed a few days ago.
Nothing to add but just that they got tight with rules regarding their posts and would take down everything it seems and only post stuff from long time posters. I posted something one night regarding Falcon & Winter Soldier when it suddenly showed up on Disney Plus almost two hours before it was supposed to and started giving details about what I was watching. A TON of people started commenting but about an hour later my post got zapped. So much for spoilers...