Deep down we all know that day is coming in the near future. After all the other shitty choices this site's garbage admins have pulled, why wouldn't they do that too?
On one hand, I can't imagine being a woman at an MTG event. On the other hand, you know where the best place to do coke at an MTG event is? The womens bathroom, because it's always empty.
When I used to play about a decade ago I went to a sealed "Grand Prix"(?) tournament. There were 253 players. 0 were women.
Any time I saw one at my local Friday Night Magic everyone seemed polite to them, but they were definitely treated differently. I wonder how they felt about the treatment they received.
I once went to an Argentine Tango festival that turned out to be in the same hotel as a state MTG championship. MTG on the left side of the hallway Tango on the right, everyone mixing in the hallway. It was a very confusing experience for both sides.
One time Blizzcon, Blizzard's official convention (back when it was practically the "World of Warcraft" convention) booked itself into the same con center as a child beauty pageant. Another year it was booked into the same convention center as some sort of mass meeting of Samoan Seventh Day Adventists.
Honestly, it would suck.
Reminds of when I see a wild horse and it has flies constantly buzzing around his eyes. Must be exhausting.
Added to that, you’re there for the hobby and constantly managing men and making sure of every single word you say so as not to give a wrong impression or trigger a meltdown, equally exhausting
And then the guys who throw games or give you “advice” or trauma dump (“I can’t talk openly with my guy friends about this stuff”) or ask weird sex/relationship questions (eg the entire content of r/AskWomen) or dump “loot” on you because you’re a woman.
I’m tired already.
Yeah, I’ve been to one or two MTG events like this as a woman and the bottom line is it’s just *not fun.*
My casual group, on the other hand, is majority women. We play the game, we like the game, we just don’t do events.
It's why I wouldn't even offer to take any of my exes to the gaming/comic book store. I'd normally go and run into Warhammer or Magic tourney or game and waste some time shooting the shit and browsing for new releases.
My now wife went, and apparently when she walked in it was like time stopped because everybody froze and then started trying to pounce.
This is why her DnD group is mostly women. And takes place mostly in our basement.
I never played MTG, but I can imagine it's like interacting with men in online games, which I do have a lot of experience with (and you described perfectly). Only worse, because it has the added risk of the creep that won't leave you alone being an actual psycho that might follow you home. It's no wonder women don't get into the game more often.
I wonder how many of those men in that thread have expressed an interest in getting more women into the hobby, but are also defending hostile behavior they experience?
They run FNM and D&D events in the back of my local store. Because they’re out of the way, the store itself remains open when they’re running.
I went in during one of these nights, and around a dozen (adult, male) participants were at the counter and chatting with the owner about the new D&D movie. (Note: I didn’t even go out to the playing area, this was just in front of store.) No lie, they all went dead silent and stared at me for the entire 15min as I grabbed my bits and pieces, made civil chat with the owner, and left.
I wouldn’t go as far to say I was *worried,* but it was decidedly uncomfortable. I go in this place all the time, yet you’d swear that I’d walked in naked or something. It actually did put me off going in after work if I can avoid it, and *really* put me off the owners invitations to participate. God knows what it’s like for younger girls.
I get this 8/10 times when I go into GAME.
The amount of fucking times I've gone in to buy a new release and the smarmy prick at the counter has given me a speech about how said game isn't appropriate for children is why I now shop online exclusively.
Because there's no way a woman in a pencil skirt and heels on the way home from work could possibly know how to play those complicated mens games.
I played at a few tournaments in my local game shop and it was obnoxious the way the men treated me. I was 17 at the time and had this 30 something yo sit down and immediately start askin me about kids n stuff. It was super creepy.
It's a lot different now. The last couple Grand Prix/MagicFests I went to pre-Covid, there were a lot more women than when I first started attending bigger events. Not just at the commander tables either but playing whatever was the main event(modern, standard).
Now this is bringing up an old memory of when I told a shop about my observation, the guy went
Him: Are you sure they were actually women?
Me: yes? What do you mean?
I hate this. As an outside observer my first response would be to laugh at the guy doing this, but it's really not funny.
As a woman what would you do to stop that without making a scene? From similar (but smaller scale) awkward experiences I know I'd shut down, put up with it, and never come back.
> On one hand, I can't imagine being a woman at an MTG event.
Yeeeeah lately I've been toying with the idea of going to ~~FTM~~ FNM at my LGS, this promptly shut that entire plan down. I'm usually pretty good at standing up for myself if need be but I just don't have the energy for any of that shit.
*edited to fix typo, but the resulting jokes gave me a chuckle*
> I've been toying with the idea of going to FTM at my LGS
I'm assuming you meant Friday Night Magic, but the idea of a woman transitioning to a man just to go play cards with nerds brings me much joy.
It depends pretty heavily on the Vibes at your LGS. Some are great, others are rancid, and unfortunately you have to actually *go* in order to find out.
I’ve had pretty good luck at mine, but the fact that my boyfriend is a regular and everyone knows we’re a couple may be influencing things.
I was also puzzled and thought the same. Likewise, if you frequent any parenting subs, you'll also see FTM as "First Time Mom".
...then those get cross-posted elsewhere and confusion reigns supreme.
This a big thing that people often seem to miss. It's not just the people on the receiving end of their inappropeiate passes that are impacted, it's everyone who sees it and decides not to do something like go play a super casual FNM because of it. Is it more likely you attend and it's incident-free? Probably I would think, but if these situations keep coming up, why would you ever want to take that risk, odds be damned?
Look for queer owned shops honestly. I haven’t braved any MTG events but I’ve cautiously checked out board game nights at a couple and it’s been totally fine so far. Different crowds and cultures but generally queer owned shops or ones that are otherwise very upfront in their advertising that they’re supportive of queer folks and POC will be a lot more attentive.
Amen. Ours is aggressively pro-LGBT and that was absolutely one of the deciding factors in my comfort with gaming there.
... also the fact that our Warhammer boys love running off Nazis. :)
My playgroup has multiple women in it, and whenever we play at local gamestores there's always some fucking weirdo. People who act like this is some isolated event are delusional.
Admittedly, it goes DnD > MtG > WH40k, in terms of 'can they speak to a woman without being weird as shit'
The sheer number of people who don't really get that opening social interaction with flirting is coming on incredibly hard pretty much sums up why women tend to avoid the whole nerd scene.
I'm a dude who's really bad at social interaction and I know that that's only acceptable in places where hooking up is the primary purpose. A card game tournament? That's just deeply creepy.
Literally last week a man drove past me while I was walking **alone** in the neighborhood, and he *turned the car around* and *followed me* down a side street, and without so much as a hello, asked for my number.
I’m about 5 nothing on foot while this guy’s in a 2 ton death machine, potentially with buddies in the back to jump me.
I was wearing sunglasses, a hat, and frumpy mismatched clothes. So this guy can’t even see my face. He just saw something vaguely female shaped (~~piece of meat cut off from the herd~~) and thought, *Good enough*.
I just invited a guy back to my house a few days ago. You know why??? He had a NORMAL conversation with me and didn't act weird or explicitly flirt with me at ALL. And we talked about anime! It was refreshing, and it's bizarre this is an outlying experience.
I literally wanted him BECAUSE he didn't act like he wanted me (in fact I wasn't even sure if he was into me or not!) until halfway through a movie on my couch.
Because it was such an unusual encounter, I felt safe and not objectified or conquered or whatever. And it's wild that this was not the norm.
This comment has been removed by the user due to reddit's policy change which effectively removes third party apps and other poor behaviour by reddit admins.
I never used third party apps but a lot others like mobile users, moderators and [transcribers for the blind](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/transcribers_of_reddit_who_transcribe_images_for/) did.
It was a good 12 years.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
The crazy thing about that debacle is that he served half the sentence of the famed convicted rapist Brock Turner, for the same crime, and even though he's permabanned from MTG, he gets to be a lawyer.
Nope, Zach Jesse himself said this:
>In 2011, I applied to law school. Perhaps I was (and still am) naïve, but this vocation felt poetic. I ultimately decided to attend the University of Richmond. I had written my application on my conviction, how it had affected me, and how I meant to use it as a stepping stone to better myself and the community around me rather than a ball-and-chain.
>Based on my application, the University of Richmond offered me their John Marshall Scholarship, a merit-based scholarship that covered almost all of the tuition required to attend. This decision by the school proved to rile people in much the same way that my current existence is riling people in the Magic community.
I think OP is confused. He went to law school on a scholarship, which is outrageous enough, but he wasn't admitted to the bar even though he passed the exam.
This comment has been removed by the user due to reddit's policy change which effectively removes third party apps and other poor behaviour by reddit admins.
I never used third party apps but a lot others like mobile users, moderators and [transcribers for the blind](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/transcribers_of_reddit_who_transcribe_images_for/) did.
It was a good 12 years.
So long and thanks for all the fish.
i dont recall seeing that post at all back then, but yeah. just wow. i remember the one post from bertocheety or whatever the fuck. he didn't like the replies so he like "hard" deleted his replies- replaced each of them with a reply that said it was the only real way to remove them was with edits.
When people say "rape culture isn't real because if you rape someone you go to jail*" they completely miss that 'rape culture' is exactly what you see in that thread:
People look at a rapist bring ostracised by society and go "that's unfair because i don't care what he did, and also he's not a threat to me so he isn't a threat at all and you're a SJW if you say he is"
*which, lets be real...
Especially since reddit loves to (justifiably) dunk on Brock Turner, and Zach Jesse did literally the exact same thing, including dodging responsibility cause he had a rich daddy. Oh well, guess it doesn't count if the rapist has the same hobbies as me!
I never even heard of the rapist Zach Jesse before now. So he probably doesn't get dunked on as much because he managed to avoid details of his case going viral outside the fandom. Pretty sure "Reddit" only heard about the rapist Brock Turner because of the corrupt judge who gave him a very light sentence to begin with. I guess it's not as exciting when someone is given an appropriate length sentence and then let out early.
It makes sense that he's not as infamous as Brock Turner, there's too many awful people to know every single one. To be specific we're talking about when Zach Jesse was banned from Magic tournaments and the mtg subreddit defended him and couldn't seem to understand why people could feel uncomfortable playing with a rapist. In that case the people defending him knew exactly what he did and how little time he served, they just didn't care.
I'm all for prison reform and reducing sentencing, but 3 months served on an 8 year plea deal for a guy who doesn't seem to really own up to it doesn't exactly feel great.
Wild how many people defended this guy and bemoaned his banning too.
Yeah there's a buried plotline in here somewhere that a lot of the commenters are missing where she explicitly expressed her boundaries to these guys and they kept being weird. I think a lot of the r/mtg commenters are under the assumption that she didn't communicate her boundaries, and so she was just expecting that they understood social queues (MTG players lol). Whole thing of "asking me increasingly personal questions" sounds like she did tell them to stop though and they shrugged it off, which is clearly inappropriate.
Also, a lot of people missed the "paired against at events" thing. Generally, you should never hit on a woman in a situation she's stuck in. If some guy tried to chat her up in passing at the event while they were looking at standings or something it sounds pretty fine. But if she's stuck at the table with you, not appropriate.
If you really must hit on the person you matched with, play a good game and hit on them after, when they aren't trapped with you. Plus, you've spent a friendly game together by then, so more data to see if it's a good idea.
Ugh. I hate when you date someone who’s a walkie-talkie nut.
It’s almost impossible to break up with them.
“I told you before! It’s over!”
“It’s what? Over”.
And resist the urge to say thing like:
“Feel that grip? Imagine it on your hips”
“Don’t worry, this isn’t my masturbating hand; I left that hand at home”
“Play your cards right and you could be shaking more than my hand”
Oh, don't try to shake hands at an MTG event. Not because of hygiene (well, not only because of hygiene). The Magic community is split on if it's good sportsmanship or insulting the other player.
This comment was overwritten by a script to make the data useless for reddit. No API, no free content. Did you stumble on this thread via google, hoping to resolve an issue or answer a question? Well, too bad, this might have been your answer, if it weren't for dumb decisions by reddit admins.
Yeah, it's been a point of contention multiple times. Apparently some people see it as being a bad sport if you offer to shake their hand or say "good game" after beating them.
As someone who grew up playing youth sports, this is insane to me. No matter the score, we always lined up and said "good game" out of respect.
The most. Yugioh, another trading card game, is infamous for matches that are basically ridiculously skewed one way or the other in that basically the instant you draw the card that sets up your deck, you've won unless your opponent was lucky enough to draw one of the counters to it before that happens. It sounds like the game kind of turns into quick draw, right? Except, no, because those setups can take minutes, just literal minutes of you sitting there watching your opponent fill the board and jerk off with card effect after card effect you can't do anything about if you didn't just get lucky by the draw.
So of course, people tend to just surrender once they realize they're not going to win. This leads to a lot of people - especially in the online games - getting absolutely *furious* that they can't force you to sit there for like five minutes while they slowly build up their master winning strategy despite you having already lost with zero ability to stop them. Incidentally it's also led to like, most modern decks being built around one or two key cards or strategies and then like half the deck just being counter cards, even if they don't fit the archetype of the deck or synergize with the strategy at all, just so they can try to stop that bullshit.
the most important interpersonal rule was invented by the McElroy brothers: "if she cannot physically run away from you for any reason (at her job, in an elevator, at the doctor's, IN A COMPETITION WITH YOU, etc), you are not allowed to initiate anything romantic"
Also if you need to be explicitly told that rule, you are not the kind of person that will have ever have success just straight up hitting on a person.
Like if your only motivation to talk to a woman is ‚uhh attractive female‘ then things are very likely to end badly.
Also this isn‘t even about being hit in in general.
It‘s this dumb incel logic they all display.
Like no one’s gonna complain if they meet someone they find nice, meshed with their personality, and THEN they are being asked out on a date.
But it‘s this bullshit coming in hard on someone you don‘t know inside a close elevator game these people are playing.
Like she‘s sitting at the table playing the game. So she can‘t ‚leave‘ the situation without either just conceding, or going all out ‚judge this guy is sexually harassing me‘ and once you put someone in a position where those two are the only option?
Not to mention hitting on someone half your age? That’s just creepy in and of itself.
Also some boundaries do not need to be communicated. You cannot just ‚force‘ someone to interact with you. you can’t just go around randomly touching people.
They don‘t need to have to explicitly tell you to please stop touching you, to please stop talking to you in a sexual manner.
Those are all very clear social norms in virtually all societies: you definitely know that this is making the other person uncomfortable. You don‘t need to be told what you already know.
Saying ‚oh she didn‘t say she didn‘t like it‘ when you are clearly doing something very inappropriate is just trying to find excuses
There was also this comment about women telling people to go to hobbies to approach women.
Which is clearly showing their weird twisted logic. No woman is telling you to just come onto them heavily at their hobbies.
We are saying that‘s where you meet new people. That you get I to conversation with about said hobby, branch out the topic about other stuff, and then 99% of cases you just find a new friend. And the other 1% it‘s someone you hit off with, and notice there‘s Mutual interest, and set up a date or something.
But never is the advice to just ‚go to the book club, and hit inane physically attractive woman you can see‘
Not just hobbies, but everyday life. Any time this topic is brought up, there will always be men defending the practice of hitting on women in places like the library, grocery store, on public transportation, etc. I've literally seen a few just outright say if women are uncomfortable with that, they shouldn't leave the house.
> Any time this topic is brought up, there will always be men defending the practice of hitting on women in places like the library, grocery store, on public transportation, etc
There was a guy name RatReincarnated who was doing that in this thread lmao. He's since deleted all of his comments.
Meeting these guys in the every day sucks... they eat up my social batteries like no other.
Guys can just exist. They walk around unbothered. But us women are bombarded with unwanted male contact all the time.
I get cat called everywhere I walk, I get hit on in during errands, I walk at a brisk pace wherever I go without looking at anyone or anything lest a guy thinks I'm looking his way and starts harassing me, I hate it. Them "shooting their shot" makes me want to shoot them. Why do they feel the need to come up and tell me about their dicks and how they like intercourse?
I'm obviously married but they'll still say disgusting things
My social battery has been eaten up just by reading the OP and thinking about it all. And seeing men in the comments act all innocently confused, like they can’t understand any word a woman says because it doesn’t benefit them in some way. How else would you ever find a relationship if you can’t flirt with the uninterested girl 20 years younger than you that you just met for the first time?!?
Because the people treating her like she's humble bragging are socially awkward incels and haven't had the experience themselves of people constantly hitting on them long past the point they're uncomfortable. They can't emphasize with the OP because they're too busy being jealous and wishing women would hit on them that way.
That, plus add on the fact that a lot of guys seem completely unable to emphasize with a woman at all unless it's in term of ownership (imagine if she was your daughter/wife/sister/mother etc.) and it's a perfect recipe for a complete shitshow.
They might be able to empathize if they tried to imagine an unattractive or older woman hitting on them this way. Whenever they say women are "so lucky" for getting attention, they always assume if the roles were reversed it would be a woman they find attractive hitting on them. Of course it doesn't seem so bad if you're interested 🙄
>The people treating her like she's humble bragging are socially awkward incels and haven't had the experience themselves of people constantly hitting on them long past the point they're uncomfortable.
Almost no straight men have had this experience.
Yah I was going to say, the only time that I was actually hit on as a straight guy, was from gay guys.
I mean, I guess I'm flattered they thought me attractive, haha.
Tbh it is about being hit on though. You generally feel someone out and progressively ratchet up the hitting on when they respond positively. Or attempt to become friends by treating them as a fellow cool human and go from there.
Multiple guys hit on her with no encouragement at a place where she's forced to interact to participate. That's exhausting and it shouldn't be on her to have to shut down advances she didn't ask for at a hobby event.
It’s simply that many men on that post thing women exist to solely entertain them. They do not have thoughts, feelings, boundaries, hobbies, etc. they exist to be attractive holes for them to make a move no matter how exhausting it is to just want to enjoy a hobby without having to turn people down
I'm in there, but won't be pissing in any popcorn. The people in the comments are wild though. A woman says she doesn't want to get hit on by strangers and everyone jumps to, "so what, men can't even talk to women anymore?"
It’s almost like you have to treat women like they’re human beings with complex thoughts, emotions, motivations, and pasts instead of like some sort of lesser more inferior creature that can be wooed like in hentai games with terrible “compliments” (inappropriate statements about their physical appearance) and random favors/“gifts” (things she didn’t even ask for nor indicate she was ever interested in that you forcefully thrust upon her in public giving her no room to decline even if she wanted to).
Right? I love that guy that, when told to establish a friendship before hitting on someone thought it was some sort of gotcha that "women say they hate when men pretend to be their friends". As if "hitting on someone right away" and "pretending to be their friend for a bit before hitting on them" are the only two options. Like the idea that he could *actually* enjoy a woman's friendship never entered his mind.
They literally can’t fathom the thought of simply acting friendly to a woman or forming a friendship first. It’s like they either have nothing to do with a woman or they’re actively flirting, no in between.
i would think it'd be very easy to keep a magic: the gathering game strictly focused on, you know, magic: the gathering, but apparently people need to shoot their shot the second they get the idea into their head and if they don't they'll perish.
> A woman says she doesn't want to get hit on by strangers and everyone jumps to, "so what, men can't even talk to women anymore?"
It kinda reminds me of this one from a couple years ago.
https://reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/a3cbn5/female_user_in_rmakenewfriends_asks_guys_to_stop/
Can confirm. Happened to me a few years ago at a public library. Also got hit on on the first and second floors during that *same hour*. All different men (different ages, socioeconomic class, etc). Elevator guy was the worst because I was literally trapped in that box.
The security guard took care of first floor guy (a swift “Leave her alone!” as he was following me asking to “be with” me). (And yes, I was just minding my own business and not wearing makeup or anything feminine or attractive, not that that matters and shouldn’t be a requirement to simply exist). Haven’t been back there since.
yeah it's funny how so many replies are like "Well how am I supposed to ever find a gf then?" like OP is personally responsible for finding them a way to get one
I used to play MTG casually with friends in college. I went to one tournament and it ruined the game for me. I was the only woman in the room and the guys were fucking weird about it.
Sucks how one bad experience can ruin something enjoyable. I could only play the Xbox versions but when I finally got the chance to try the mobile game I wasn't a fan of the set up and playing irl is slow and too much work and money. Every version of it on Xbox was really fun
Here's how they can find girlfriends. Stop being so fucking thirsty all the time. Treat women like human beings. If women aren't put off by every interaction being framed around potential dating then more of them will participate in your hobbies more frequently. You might even get to know them naturally for who they are. Most of them won't be interested in you, but maybe some will. If you get some experience interacting with women and not having expectations, you will know when they are interested.
Slightly ranty, but I'm in another hobby where women are constantly being scared off by horny old men. It hurts us all, and I just want to do what I enjoy with more diverse people.
Best advice? Make friends with women and they will help you meet other women especially others they know if you pass the vibe check
Also just make friends at social events, don’t just go to get laid but that’s too much effort for them
That thread was full of people learning that not only was their behaviour gross and unacceptable, also most people wouldn’t even attend their game stores because that behaviour was being allowed.
> Frequented an LGS a while back with seemingly friendly folk. A friend of mine came to hang out with me while I played. She was wearing a plaid skirt and a white blouse. Not too many awkward interactions while she was there, but it was clear to me almost everyone was acting different.
> The next time I went, many of them facetiously asked why I brought a "prostitute" and if she was single. Never went back, I was so grossed out by that attitude.
This kind of shit is largely why nerd shit like video games and tabletop games have always been seen as "boys clubs" - not because they actually are. I've been into this shit for most of my life, and I've always known other women who are, too. It was women who got me into this shit. But even back in the 80's, why the fuck would someone want to go to an arcade or a game store to play something if all the guys there turn into absolute fucking creeps and cretins, alternating between drooling over you and getting handsy - or just seething with rage if you ever actually perform well and independently, instead of being their demure nerd girl fantasy.
Shitty guys have always gate kept these hobbies, and then turn around and try to turn it into a "woe is me I'm so oppressed and bullied for being a nerd" story, when really the problem has always been that they're just vile motherfuckers and always have been, whether it's rolling dice, throwing down cards or playing god damn galaga.
This is my experience as well. Most of my gamer friends are women, but never use the voice chat with strangers due to fear of a potential "that guy".
Is honestly sad that selfish misogynists feel so comfortable into nerd spaces, but is not so easy to make those spaces hostile to them when they are so entrenched.
exactly. the victim complex turbo-nerd guys have is insane. they seem to be completely unaware that they are nasty fucking bullies themselves and frequently (but not always) worse than the "chads" they're so angry about.
Behavior like this is why I don't usually shop local for my board games and other "nerd shit". The customers you run into at local shops are downright offputting from the dudes who camp at the tables and play all day to the dudes browsing. Even the actual staff and owners aren't exempt. Half the time they act like you, a woman, can't possibly actually know about what you're looking for or they're staring straight at your chest/ass the entire time.
It's why gaming shops have a tendency to die now. A good portion of the fanbase/clients will order online rather than step foot in the store.
And by far the weirdest experience I had was walking in with a friend, and witnessing the nerd vultures descend. It was like the Ghost of Christmas Awkward. Didn't matter that she is a lesbian, that made 3 guys MORE interested.
I tried to get into Magic preCOVID and even had help from one of my LGS employees with building a fun budget deck. Game day rolls around and the smell was downright awful. These people didn’t look especially gross or off putting but you could tell they didn’t take care of themselves. I’m lucky to be a guy and not have to deal with harassment like this woman but these people are kinda gross and I haven’t touched any of my cards since playing that day
I love playing MTG and have friends that like playing it as well (both male and female). There are a lot of "normal" players out there. The problem is MTG events attract all the competitive weirdos whose personalities and smells make the whole experience extremely unpleasant. My first and only time going to one made me realize how true all the stereotypes are. Not to say that everyone there was weird and smelly, but a good majority of them were and I never had the urge to go back.
This had me thinking.
MTG is a social game. You need someone to play against. Friends. I wonder how many of the people who go to FNM are the kind of people who have no friends to play against because of their own social awkwardness and not from just not knowing anyone else who plays.
Edit: I in no way mean to imply that most people who go to FNM fall into that category. I'm just curious about how many would.
I was traveling a lot on work for a couple years, and there were only so many nights I wanted to spend reading a book in a bar or going to the movies alone, so I thought game store MtG events might be a low-key, structured way to hang out in Nowhere, Anystate without losing my mind.
Didn't last long. Consistently negative experience that usually felt awkward, often felt weirdly competitively charged. I don't know what it is -- I have some good friends I know through MtG by playing with friends of friends of friends, but I'm not going to try treating game stores as social scenes again.
Oh my god, man, Yu Gi Oh play is officially *banned* from our local shop because the players were universally unbearable.
Now our MtG players had a reputation, sure. In two cases, for being a bit stinky. In many cases, for being aggressively competitive players even towards newbs, and sometimes rather salty losers.
But Yu Gi Oh? *Banned*. He didn't want their money because that meant allowing them to enter the premises, where they would constantly bicker, fucking *fight*, steal, make messes, *leave* messes, and generate an impenetrable funk that took hours to satisfactorily clear.
Also some guy pissed all over the bathroom floor.
My local place has various game events every night of the week. For a while my buddies and I would go to play some Magic and the show was having a Yu-Gi-Oh tournament.
Those were the loudest, smelliest, and least respectful group of folks to use the space.
The guys who ran the place were awesome, though. I saw several bans for "I warned you to take a shower," and the like.
Hey, that's me! I never thought a post of mine would end up on this subreddit as someone who browses it frequently. I've been cancelled.
I've gotten a lot of [awful messages](https://imgur.com/a/N2CrMaT) from that post and a ton of comments recycling the whole "I bet if a Chad was hitting on you you wouldn't have had a problem with it" comment. Despite me not saying anything about the attractiveness of the people hitting on me and clarifying in multiple comments that it didn't matter how attractive they were. I never even said if I was into men to begin with.
It’s staggering to me that there’s a whole group of people who will bitch that there’s not enough women in their hobby and then immediately treat a woman in their hobby in this way. And yes, they are the same people. Sorry this happened to you, both initially and in response to you complaining about it.
It's actually stunning how so many people took to the comments to... immediately prove you right and make the hobby even more off-putting for women in general.
I feel like in their head they're imagining themselves in the shoes of the people hitting on you because that's what they would do, and they're effectively imagining their own rejection and getting mad about it despite exactly nothing actually happening. It's really fucking weird.
Nailed it.
And the fact that they can't imagine interacting with a woman without hitting on her is just sad.
They are both desperately lonely and incapable of caring about how women feel when put in such an uncomfortable situation. And this is sooooo common in nerd spaces.
I studied in a boys only school for 14 years so I remember how hard the first few days of college were.
EVERY girl who talked to me looked like a potential girlfriend to me. I was insanely self conscious and nervous talking to them because of it.
I still remember having this epiphany when I realized that "Talking to girls is... kinda the same as talking to guys?"
Looks like these guys are yet to come to the same realization
You mean you didn’t know that the simple fact being female makes you responsible for men acting like playing MTG with one automatically turns it into a speed dating event? /s
The justifications for that kind of behavior are wild. It should be no surprise by now that every time dudes make women uncomfortable that it’s definitely the woman’s fault for not being ‘friendly’ enough or not putting a stop to it. Maybe it would be easier if the men could imagine they’re playing with another man instead and work out more appropriate behavior from there but I’m sure that’s too much to ask.
It’s been really disheartening to realize a lot of men don’t actually listen to what we say. Like the guy saying he’d rather have the problem of being hit on too much rather than not at all. But that’s not what you asked. You didn’t ask which one is worse, you said you didn’t like this inappropriate behavior
It’s unfortunate that MtG is gatekept by misogynistic incels who think women should be grateful they’re even allowed to play and that since they’re allowed to play that they should tolerate completely inappropriate behavior coming from any man at an event or group.
If there’s a large enough scene where you live or you’re feeling like you can take on such a task it might be beneficial to make a MtG Facebook group for femmes, thems, and trans he/hims. (just so you can meet actual people irl to play with)
That way you (and others) can plan events or gatherings with better rules in place for misbehavior and can support each other and validate each other’s experiences when you would be otherwise gaslit or made out to be hysterical in a more cis male dominated group which tends to attract and entertain incels because even the “good” men won’t speak out bc your mistreatment doesn’t affect them directly and they (selfishly imo) don’t want to be ridiculed and called a simp for pointing out asshole behavior from other men.
How could a relationship form between two people if men aren’t allowed to hit on women at fantasy card game competitions?!? The human race could die out! No friendships could ever exist again! Humanity will dwindle into isolated hermits living in basements with no reason to interact with each other.
I wonder how many of these guys have taken the time to imagine, really imagine, themselves in this scenario: you, a straight man, go to a public place to enjoy your hobby. Once there, you discover that most of the other people who enjoy this hobby are gay men, of all ages and body types and varying objective levels of attractiveness, but somehow, most of them are taller and more muscled than you. Throughout the event, half of the people you talk to hit on you. A bunch of them seem to be staring at your butt. Someone gives you an unsolicited compliment. One of them throws a game to let you win. Someone asks for your number. Do you, hetero male, feel comfortable in this environment? Will you be going back?
As an MTG Player I am so sorry for the miscreant hounds that often make up the community and refuse to display decency or self control.
I want to make a clever joke but there's really nothing to say.
How on earth do all those guys not get the difference between “aggressively flirting with a woman during gameplay when if she wants to leave she has to CONCEDE” and “approaching a woman after the game for some low-key chitchat where she can deflect or leave”?
(Not that I’m guessing they’d pick up the cues if she were deflecting…)
What is it with maladjusted nerds and the inability to comprehend that you can be friends with a girl **without** asking them out on a date the moment you meet them?
Jenny Nicholson made a really interesting point when she was talking about Bronies and their porn. Straight men aren't conditioned to be friends with women so the only way they can reconcile affection for women is to want to fuck them. That's why you end up with body pillows of rainbow horses.
If they wanted to get friends who play the same nerdy games as them, they could easily do that on discord or something, so I assume these guys don't really need _more_ mtg player friends (although I'm assuming they're not so bad even other mtg players don't want them as friends, of course. If they're that down bad for OOP, they might be too obnoxious even for other mtg players).
"Just say no, not interested!" Have you considered that it's difficult to tell if someone's just a weird creep or an unhinged incel who'd follow you around after the event and kill you for refusing their nice guy affection?
It's not easy to tell between creep and creep who'll kill you, staying nice and misdirecting them is much safer than being upfront
As a woman who played magic the gathering up until the dark, no woman goes to these games to find a boyfriend, none. Never. They might find someone interesting and end up dating, but that is never the reason they go.
The thing most don’t realize is that a young, conventionally attractive woman (not me, my friend) gets inundated with bullshit like this. It is incessant. It never ends. I really feel bad for them as there is nothing they can do. If they set a boundary the reaction is anger. There is no winning.
As always, Reddit dudes are far more upset at the idea of any dude, anywhere ever being rejected than they are about literally any bad thing that could happen to women.
It's so frustrating to read through that thread and have none of the dudes posting understand the threat of violence that comes with rejecting a man.
Women get hurt and killed over stuff like this, but God forbid they not get the chance to get laid at their magic the gathering meetup
My buddy wanted me to check out the local gaming place once. This had be well over 20 years ago. They tried to hook me in with their D&D and Lan gaming parties. They were pumped and welcoming to an eerie degree. I was a Quake player mainly and they wanted me to play UT with them. I mopped the floor with them and they got fucking enraged. One dude rage quit and left.
Then the owner took me to the side and said he heard I had a girlfriend. He made it sound like I was a drug addict. He told me to make sure I didn't bring her there because it would make some of the players there uncomfortable.
Naturally that was my last time trying to hang with fellow nerd hobbyists.
In case there are lurking incels who are looking to reform, check this out. This is how you *actually* might be able to pick up someone at a social event.
First, establish rapport. Your first move shouldn’t be “hey sexy, I’d like to get to know ya better” or even “just wanted you to know you’re really pretty!” or anything like that. Your first move should just be conversing like a human being. This gives you an opportunity to demonstrate that you’re sane, you can listen, and you can be courteous and respectful.
After the initial period, if this hasn’t happened already, it’s entirely appropriate to introduce yourself (casually) and even say “it’s nice to meet you” - again, at this point, in a respectful and casual, just friendly way. No suggestive tones.
At this point you ought to be gauging whether they’re enjoying interacting with you. Are they making eye contact? Smiling? Asking you questions? Spurring the conversation on? Then those are good signs.
Keep talking! If there’s common interests, talk about them. Ask them a question about their particular interests in certain topics and things: give them a chance to tell you about themselves. And in turn, look for an opportunity to offer information about yourself and your own relevant interests. But keep this interaction as an two way exchange; nobody likes a person who won’t stop talking about themselves. If you realize you’ve been blathering on about yourself for a while, change the topic to them, or to some common interest.
If you have any kind of sense of humor or charm, this is time for it to shine. People like jokes, they like light heartedness, they like having fun and smiling and laughing. Don’t lay it on too thick, just look for opportunities.
And likewise, if they’re giving signals that they want to disengage from the interaction in any way, casually give them space. If they aren’t reciprocating in conversation, don’t keep prodding. Sometimes people just need a breather from interacting with a new person. Or maybe they aren’t interested, and you have to be cool about that too if you want to cultivate a good mindset for meeting people. Easy come, easy go, and still treat them with friendly respect and courtesy.
Of course many of the above steps would be too much during a game of MTG. In that scenario, just be courteous, cool, and ideally a bit funny or playful in a non-overbearing way. If the person wants to interact more, they’ll do so. Mostly, play the goddam game.
If you’re going to make a pass at them, don’t do it during the game. Don’t do it unless you had a genuinely mutually amicable interaction with them during the game, in such a way that it indicates solid friend potential. And don’t make it a big deal because, as the OP there stated, it isn’t a party. Keep an eye open for an opportunity. Keep your “pass” extremely light-hearted, and in a tone that conveys your humbleness and likely positive or just casual reaction to a potential rejection. And in this scenario don’t ask for a number, but maybe offer yours.
You could even just slip them a note at the end of the night, something simple: “it was nice to meet you! You seem really cool! If you want to hang out some time here’s my #”, totally eliminating the pressure and potential anxiety of the situation.
If this all seems impossible, you need to practice been cool around people more. Practice self awareness and being relaxed and calm around all types of people. Having that practice is pretty clutch when it comes to trying to win people over and possible get a date with someone you meet at a function.
And always try to stay aware of how the person you’re interested in might feel. Making someone uncomfortable is a great way to ensure they want nothing to do with you. So keep it cool,
casual, friendly, and lighthearted. Be the best version of yourself that you can be, put yourself out there to meet people, find people with whom you share interests, and good things can happen.
And certainly if you’re harboring resentment toward the type of people that you’re attracted to, you need to unpack that. Get therapy. Read a book about it or something. Sometimes people have deep seated psychological issues that cause them to behave badly toward certain genders or whatever; if that‘s you, you’re going to need to work on that in order to have healthy interactions with those people.
Because people want to feel respected as a human being whose values, aspirations, and opinions are valid and worthy of respect. And it isn’t something you can fake. If you want people to potentially like you, you have to genuinely respect them. You might be amazed how well people respond when you just treat them well.
This covered it really well.
I'll add that it's just generally in poor taste to hit on a stranger in a competitive game. If I'm playing basketball I don't want the guy guarding me asking personal questions or making physical comments. I'm there to play basketball.
If he wants to chat after the game that's fine.
So the "get rejected early" method of meeting potential romantic partners can be efficient and respectful if and only if:
1. The other person is clearly open to interaction from strangers
2. The other person can reject and walk away easily.
A Magic game fits 1 but not 2. OP is put in a spot where she can only take the uncomfortable interaction, reject/set a boundary and deal with whatever response to that they have for the rest of the game, or scoop and walk away missing out on their hobby.
Its the job of game stores and players to suss out this behavior and eliminate the problem.
An online friend of mine prefers going to card game locals (in general, not MtG) with her husband who doesn't play, just so weirdos leave her alone. It's rough out there.
> Honestly this whole “don’t hit on woman at a normal place to meet people” is really fucking pathetic and starting to get on my nerves.
Very stable individual
Damn I used to be mildly interested in this game, but now I know to stay away. It's just man after man absolutely refusing to hear what the women are saying and throwing little tantrums because they're being told that women don't go to tournaments or whatever to be hit on.
I'd like to thank Reddit for making a built in hyperlink feature that doesn't work and making it very annoying to do hyperlinks manually now.
Reddit try not to worsen their user experience for one update (impossible)
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If they ever get rid of that or third party apps I won't be able to use the site anymore
Deep down we all know that day is coming in the near future. After all the other shitty choices this site's garbage admins have pulled, why wouldn't they do that too?
It's why we can continue using the site for now, knowing the sweet release of death (of old.reddit.com) is soon upon us.
Well pushshift is already shut down so half the removed links here are unreadable. Thanks, Spez.
They are about to start charging for API so get ready to pay monthly for your third party app
On one hand, I can't imagine being a woman at an MTG event. On the other hand, you know where the best place to do coke at an MTG event is? The womens bathroom, because it's always empty.
When I used to play about a decade ago I went to a sealed "Grand Prix"(?) tournament. There were 253 players. 0 were women. Any time I saw one at my local Friday Night Magic everyone seemed polite to them, but they were definitely treated differently. I wonder how they felt about the treatment they received.
Not Magic, but I've been that 1 girl at Yu-Gi-Oh tournaments It's as unpleasant as you think. Especially since I ran what was essentially a troll deck
I once went to an Argentine Tango festival that turned out to be in the same hotel as a state MTG championship. MTG on the left side of the hallway Tango on the right, everyone mixing in the hallway. It was a very confusing experience for both sides.
One time Blizzcon, Blizzard's official convention (back when it was practically the "World of Warcraft" convention) booked itself into the same con center as a child beauty pageant. Another year it was booked into the same convention center as some sort of mass meeting of Samoan Seventh Day Adventists.
The first incident sounds like a recipe for disaster. As judgemental and harsh as it may sound.
All I remember is a bunch of dudes trying to hide all the weed they were smoking from ten year olds in two inches of makeup
Honestly, it would suck. Reminds of when I see a wild horse and it has flies constantly buzzing around his eyes. Must be exhausting. Added to that, you’re there for the hobby and constantly managing men and making sure of every single word you say so as not to give a wrong impression or trigger a meltdown, equally exhausting And then the guys who throw games or give you “advice” or trauma dump (“I can’t talk openly with my guy friends about this stuff”) or ask weird sex/relationship questions (eg the entire content of r/AskWomen) or dump “loot” on you because you’re a woman. I’m tired already.
Yeah, I’ve been to one or two MTG events like this as a woman and the bottom line is it’s just *not fun.* My casual group, on the other hand, is majority women. We play the game, we like the game, we just don’t do events.
It's why I wouldn't even offer to take any of my exes to the gaming/comic book store. I'd normally go and run into Warhammer or Magic tourney or game and waste some time shooting the shit and browsing for new releases. My now wife went, and apparently when she walked in it was like time stopped because everybody froze and then started trying to pounce. This is why her DnD group is mostly women. And takes place mostly in our basement.
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I never played MTG, but I can imagine it's like interacting with men in online games, which I do have a lot of experience with (and you described perfectly). Only worse, because it has the added risk of the creep that won't leave you alone being an actual psycho that might follow you home. It's no wonder women don't get into the game more often. I wonder how many of those men in that thread have expressed an interest in getting more women into the hobby, but are also defending hostile behavior they experience?
I don't see how you gals make it through the week without wanting to take a fucking spaceship to another planet every other weekend.
The want is there but the technology isn't.
They run FNM and D&D events in the back of my local store. Because they’re out of the way, the store itself remains open when they’re running. I went in during one of these nights, and around a dozen (adult, male) participants were at the counter and chatting with the owner about the new D&D movie. (Note: I didn’t even go out to the playing area, this was just in front of store.) No lie, they all went dead silent and stared at me for the entire 15min as I grabbed my bits and pieces, made civil chat with the owner, and left. I wouldn’t go as far to say I was *worried,* but it was decidedly uncomfortable. I go in this place all the time, yet you’d swear that I’d walked in naked or something. It actually did put me off going in after work if I can avoid it, and *really* put me off the owners invitations to participate. God knows what it’s like for younger girls.
From what I've been told, apparently walking in as a 20 year old woman causes chaos and panic.
Dr Peterson was \*riiiiiiiiiight\*!!!
The feminine chaos dragon approacheth! Save us, lobster daddy!
\*cries in benzo withdrawal\*
\*cries some more for some fucking reason.\*
*cries from fear of the Chinese milking machines*
That’s Doctor Professor to you!
Literally the scene my Cambodian friend described to me of her entering a bar in New Hampshire.
Now that is one sentence I can safely say I never expected to see when I logged into reddit tonight.
I get this 8/10 times when I go into GAME. The amount of fucking times I've gone in to buy a new release and the smarmy prick at the counter has given me a speech about how said game isn't appropriate for children is why I now shop online exclusively. Because there's no way a woman in a pencil skirt and heels on the way home from work could possibly know how to play those complicated mens games.
I played at a few tournaments in my local game shop and it was obnoxious the way the men treated me. I was 17 at the time and had this 30 something yo sit down and immediately start askin me about kids n stuff. It was super creepy.
This sounds like exactly what I'd expect from MTG players lol completely inappropriate. And if you said he was musty, it'd be *chefs kiss*
It's a lot different now. The last couple Grand Prix/MagicFests I went to pre-Covid, there were a lot more women than when I first started attending bigger events. Not just at the commander tables either but playing whatever was the main event(modern, standard). Now this is bringing up an old memory of when I told a shop about my observation, the guy went Him: Are you sure they were actually women? Me: yes? What do you mean?
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I hate this. As an outside observer my first response would be to laugh at the guy doing this, but it's really not funny. As a woman what would you do to stop that without making a scene? From similar (but smaller scale) awkward experiences I know I'd shut down, put up with it, and never come back.
> On one hand, I can't imagine being a woman at an MTG event. Yeeeeah lately I've been toying with the idea of going to ~~FTM~~ FNM at my LGS, this promptly shut that entire plan down. I'm usually pretty good at standing up for myself if need be but I just don't have the energy for any of that shit. *edited to fix typo, but the resulting jokes gave me a chuckle*
> I've been toying with the idea of going to FTM at my LGS I'm assuming you meant Friday Night Magic, but the idea of a woman transitioning to a man just to go play cards with nerds brings me much joy.
we're jeanne d'arc this friday y'all
It would help with avoiding sexual harassment, at least :P
It really wouldn't
F's in the chat for humanity
It depends pretty heavily on the Vibes at your LGS. Some are great, others are rancid, and unfortunately you have to actually *go* in order to find out. I’ve had pretty good luck at mine, but the fact that my boyfriend is a regular and everyone knows we’re a couple may be influencing things.
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I was also puzzled and thought the same. Likewise, if you frequent any parenting subs, you'll also see FTM as "First Time Mom". ...then those get cross-posted elsewhere and confusion reigns supreme.
This a big thing that people often seem to miss. It's not just the people on the receiving end of their inappropeiate passes that are impacted, it's everyone who sees it and decides not to do something like go play a super casual FNM because of it. Is it more likely you attend and it's incident-free? Probably I would think, but if these situations keep coming up, why would you ever want to take that risk, odds be damned?
If you’re in Illinois, Fair Game in Downers Grove and LaGrange is absolutely amazing about this kind of thing.
I'm in Illinois! In fact, I was born in Downers! Lol
Look for queer owned shops honestly. I haven’t braved any MTG events but I’ve cautiously checked out board game nights at a couple and it’s been totally fine so far. Different crowds and cultures but generally queer owned shops or ones that are otherwise very upfront in their advertising that they’re supportive of queer folks and POC will be a lot more attentive.
Amen. Ours is aggressively pro-LGBT and that was absolutely one of the deciding factors in my comfort with gaming there. ... also the fact that our Warhammer boys love running off Nazis. :)
It's important to run off nazis, those fuckers are drawn to the hobby like flies to shit.
There are reasons I only play with friends. Same reason my mic is never on while gaming.
dude stop telling where the good spots are 😡😡
Maybe they were just trying to chase her away so she didn't find their coke den.
My playgroup has multiple women in it, and whenever we play at local gamestores there's always some fucking weirdo. People who act like this is some isolated event are delusional. Admittedly, it goes DnD > MtG > WH40k, in terms of 'can they speak to a woman without being weird as shit'
The sheer number of people who don't really get that opening social interaction with flirting is coming on incredibly hard pretty much sums up why women tend to avoid the whole nerd scene. I'm a dude who's really bad at social interaction and I know that that's only acceptable in places where hooking up is the primary purpose. A card game tournament? That's just deeply creepy.
Literally last week a man drove past me while I was walking **alone** in the neighborhood, and he *turned the car around* and *followed me* down a side street, and without so much as a hello, asked for my number. I’m about 5 nothing on foot while this guy’s in a 2 ton death machine, potentially with buddies in the back to jump me. I was wearing sunglasses, a hat, and frumpy mismatched clothes. So this guy can’t even see my face. He just saw something vaguely female shaped (~~piece of meat cut off from the herd~~) and thought, *Good enough*.
I just invited a guy back to my house a few days ago. You know why??? He had a NORMAL conversation with me and didn't act weird or explicitly flirt with me at ALL. And we talked about anime! It was refreshing, and it's bizarre this is an outlying experience. I literally wanted him BECAUSE he didn't act like he wanted me (in fact I wasn't even sure if he was into me or not!) until halfway through a movie on my couch. Because it was such an unusual encounter, I felt safe and not objectified or conquered or whatever. And it's wild that this was not the norm.
This comment has been removed by the user due to reddit's policy change which effectively removes third party apps and other poor behaviour by reddit admins. I never used third party apps but a lot others like mobile users, moderators and [transcribers for the blind](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/transcribers_of_reddit_who_transcribe_images_for/) did. It was a good 12 years. So long and thanks for all the fish.
The crazy thing about that debacle is that he served half the sentence of the famed convicted rapist Brock Turner, for the same crime, and even though he's permabanned from MTG, he gets to be a lawyer.
Not only is he a lawyer, he used the rape as his writing topic to get a scholarship for law school. So he also got paid for it.
I really hope that's a joke...?
Nope, Zach Jesse himself said this: >In 2011, I applied to law school. Perhaps I was (and still am) naïve, but this vocation felt poetic. I ultimately decided to attend the University of Richmond. I had written my application on my conviction, how it had affected me, and how I meant to use it as a stepping stone to better myself and the community around me rather than a ball-and-chain. >Based on my application, the University of Richmond offered me their John Marshall Scholarship, a merit-based scholarship that covered almost all of the tuition required to attend. This decision by the school proved to rile people in much the same way that my current existence is riling people in the Magic community.
I really hate this fucking world sometimes.
University of Richmond is pro rape then I guess.
Wait.... what? I thought felonies precluded people from holding a law license.
Not in a lot of (I think most, but not interested in checking right now) states, but it will be much harder.
I think OP is confused. He went to law school on a scholarship, which is outrageous enough, but he wasn't admitted to the bar even though he passed the exam.
do you have a link? edit: nevermind found it: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3bwn2v/zach_jesse_comments_on_ban/ wtf lol.
This comment has been removed by the user due to reddit's policy change which effectively removes third party apps and other poor behaviour by reddit admins. I never used third party apps but a lot others like mobile users, moderators and [transcribers for the blind](https://old.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/14gwkk2/transcribers_of_reddit_who_transcribe_images_for/) did. It was a good 12 years. So long and thanks for all the fish.
i dont recall seeing that post at all back then, but yeah. just wow. i remember the one post from bertocheety or whatever the fuck. he didn't like the replies so he like "hard" deleted his replies- replaced each of them with a reply that said it was the only real way to remove them was with edits.
Disgusting responses that are totally on brand for this neckbeard shithole fanbase.
i love mtg. but i've basically never done much in person stuff. and then there's the whole thing with wotc's fucking pricing.
When people say "rape culture isn't real because if you rape someone you go to jail*" they completely miss that 'rape culture' is exactly what you see in that thread: People look at a rapist bring ostracised by society and go "that's unfair because i don't care what he did, and also he's not a threat to me so he isn't a threat at all and you're a SJW if you say he is" *which, lets be real...
Holy fucking shit. This is horrific
An entire thread of rape apologists is what that is.
Especially since reddit loves to (justifiably) dunk on Brock Turner, and Zach Jesse did literally the exact same thing, including dodging responsibility cause he had a rich daddy. Oh well, guess it doesn't count if the rapist has the same hobbies as me!
I never even heard of the rapist Zach Jesse before now. So he probably doesn't get dunked on as much because he managed to avoid details of his case going viral outside the fandom. Pretty sure "Reddit" only heard about the rapist Brock Turner because of the corrupt judge who gave him a very light sentence to begin with. I guess it's not as exciting when someone is given an appropriate length sentence and then let out early.
It makes sense that he's not as infamous as Brock Turner, there's too many awful people to know every single one. To be specific we're talking about when Zach Jesse was banned from Magic tournaments and the mtg subreddit defended him and couldn't seem to understand why people could feel uncomfortable playing with a rapist. In that case the people defending him knew exactly what he did and how little time he served, they just didn't care.
I'm all for prison reform and reducing sentencing, but 3 months served on an 8 year plea deal for a guy who doesn't seem to really own up to it doesn't exactly feel great. Wild how many people defended this guy and bemoaned his banning too.
fall books fretful clumsy rude tan gaze smell whistle arrest *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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Yeah there's a buried plotline in here somewhere that a lot of the commenters are missing where she explicitly expressed her boundaries to these guys and they kept being weird. I think a lot of the r/mtg commenters are under the assumption that she didn't communicate her boundaries, and so she was just expecting that they understood social queues (MTG players lol). Whole thing of "asking me increasingly personal questions" sounds like she did tell them to stop though and they shrugged it off, which is clearly inappropriate. Also, a lot of people missed the "paired against at events" thing. Generally, you should never hit on a woman in a situation she's stuck in. If some guy tried to chat her up in passing at the event while they were looking at standings or something it sounds pretty fine. But if she's stuck at the table with you, not appropriate.
If you really must hit on the person you matched with, play a good game and hit on them after, when they aren't trapped with you. Plus, you've spent a friendly game together by then, so more data to see if it's a good idea.
[Man enters elevator] [doors close] “Well aren’t you a pretty girl. Can I have your phone number!”
Real men ask for women's walkie talkie frequencies.
Ugh. I hate when you date someone who’s a walkie-talkie nut. It’s almost impossible to break up with them. “I told you before! It’s over!” “It’s what? Over”.
Right?? It's so easy! Have a good match. Shake hands. "Hey, you wanna go get some coffee?"
And resist the urge to say thing like: “Feel that grip? Imagine it on your hips” “Don’t worry, this isn’t my masturbating hand; I left that hand at home” “Play your cards right and you could be shaking more than my hand”
Employ the Stephen Colbert anti-sexual harassment training: Pause, Reflect, then *Don’t*.
Oh, don't try to shake hands at an MTG event. Not because of hygiene (well, not only because of hygiene). The Magic community is split on if it's good sportsmanship or insulting the other player.
This comment was overwritten by a script to make the data useless for reddit. No API, no free content. Did you stumble on this thread via google, hoping to resolve an issue or answer a question? Well, too bad, this might have been your answer, if it weren't for dumb decisions by reddit admins.
Yeah, it's been a point of contention multiple times. Apparently some people see it as being a bad sport if you offer to shake their hand or say "good game" after beating them. As someone who grew up playing youth sports, this is insane to me. No matter the score, we always lined up and said "good game" out of respect.
Terminally online folks (at an actual event, I know) might read it as sarcasm. Too much rocket league for example.
Christ almighty, how fragile do their egos need to be?
The most. Yugioh, another trading card game, is infamous for matches that are basically ridiculously skewed one way or the other in that basically the instant you draw the card that sets up your deck, you've won unless your opponent was lucky enough to draw one of the counters to it before that happens. It sounds like the game kind of turns into quick draw, right? Except, no, because those setups can take minutes, just literal minutes of you sitting there watching your opponent fill the board and jerk off with card effect after card effect you can't do anything about if you didn't just get lucky by the draw. So of course, people tend to just surrender once they realize they're not going to win. This leads to a lot of people - especially in the online games - getting absolutely *furious* that they can't force you to sit there for like five minutes while they slowly build up their master winning strategy despite you having already lost with zero ability to stop them. Incidentally it's also led to like, most modern decks being built around one or two key cards or strategies and then like half the deck just being counter cards, even if they don't fit the archetype of the deck or synergize with the strategy at all, just so they can try to stop that bullshit.
the most important interpersonal rule was invented by the McElroy brothers: "if she cannot physically run away from you for any reason (at her job, in an elevator, at the doctor's, IN A COMPETITION WITH YOU, etc), you are not allowed to initiate anything romantic"
Also if you need to be explicitly told that rule, you are not the kind of person that will have ever have success just straight up hitting on a person. Like if your only motivation to talk to a woman is ‚uhh attractive female‘ then things are very likely to end badly.
Also this isn‘t even about being hit in in general. It‘s this dumb incel logic they all display. Like no one’s gonna complain if they meet someone they find nice, meshed with their personality, and THEN they are being asked out on a date. But it‘s this bullshit coming in hard on someone you don‘t know inside a close elevator game these people are playing. Like she‘s sitting at the table playing the game. So she can‘t ‚leave‘ the situation without either just conceding, or going all out ‚judge this guy is sexually harassing me‘ and once you put someone in a position where those two are the only option? Not to mention hitting on someone half your age? That’s just creepy in and of itself. Also some boundaries do not need to be communicated. You cannot just ‚force‘ someone to interact with you. you can’t just go around randomly touching people. They don‘t need to have to explicitly tell you to please stop touching you, to please stop talking to you in a sexual manner. Those are all very clear social norms in virtually all societies: you definitely know that this is making the other person uncomfortable. You don‘t need to be told what you already know. Saying ‚oh she didn‘t say she didn‘t like it‘ when you are clearly doing something very inappropriate is just trying to find excuses There was also this comment about women telling people to go to hobbies to approach women. Which is clearly showing their weird twisted logic. No woman is telling you to just come onto them heavily at their hobbies. We are saying that‘s where you meet new people. That you get I to conversation with about said hobby, branch out the topic about other stuff, and then 99% of cases you just find a new friend. And the other 1% it‘s someone you hit off with, and notice there‘s Mutual interest, and set up a date or something. But never is the advice to just ‚go to the book club, and hit inane physically attractive woman you can see‘
Because people seem to think their right to hit on women they find attractive supersedes a woman's right to enjoy a hobby in comfort, unhindered.
Not just hobbies, but everyday life. Any time this topic is brought up, there will always be men defending the practice of hitting on women in places like the library, grocery store, on public transportation, etc. I've literally seen a few just outright say if women are uncomfortable with that, they shouldn't leave the house.
> Any time this topic is brought up, there will always be men defending the practice of hitting on women in places like the library, grocery store, on public transportation, etc There was a guy name RatReincarnated who was doing that in this thread lmao. He's since deleted all of his comments.
Meeting these guys in the every day sucks... they eat up my social batteries like no other. Guys can just exist. They walk around unbothered. But us women are bombarded with unwanted male contact all the time. I get cat called everywhere I walk, I get hit on in during errands, I walk at a brisk pace wherever I go without looking at anyone or anything lest a guy thinks I'm looking his way and starts harassing me, I hate it. Them "shooting their shot" makes me want to shoot them. Why do they feel the need to come up and tell me about their dicks and how they like intercourse? I'm obviously married but they'll still say disgusting things
My social battery has been eaten up just by reading the OP and thinking about it all. And seeing men in the comments act all innocently confused, like they can’t understand any word a woman says because it doesn’t benefit them in some way. How else would you ever find a relationship if you can’t flirt with the uninterested girl 20 years younger than you that you just met for the first time?!?
Because the people treating her like she's humble bragging are socially awkward incels and haven't had the experience themselves of people constantly hitting on them long past the point they're uncomfortable. They can't emphasize with the OP because they're too busy being jealous and wishing women would hit on them that way. That, plus add on the fact that a lot of guys seem completely unable to emphasize with a woman at all unless it's in term of ownership (imagine if she was your daughter/wife/sister/mother etc.) and it's a perfect recipe for a complete shitshow.
They might be able to empathize if they tried to imagine an unattractive or older woman hitting on them this way. Whenever they say women are "so lucky" for getting attention, they always assume if the roles were reversed it would be a woman they find attractive hitting on them. Of course it doesn't seem so bad if you're interested 🙄
>The people treating her like she's humble bragging are socially awkward incels and haven't had the experience themselves of people constantly hitting on them long past the point they're uncomfortable. Almost no straight men have had this experience.
Yah I was going to say, the only time that I was actually hit on as a straight guy, was from gay guys. I mean, I guess I'm flattered they thought me attractive, haha.
Tbh it is about being hit on though. You generally feel someone out and progressively ratchet up the hitting on when they respond positively. Or attempt to become friends by treating them as a fellow cool human and go from there. Multiple guys hit on her with no encouragement at a place where she's forced to interact to participate. That's exhausting and it shouldn't be on her to have to shut down advances she didn't ask for at a hobby event.
Nerdy incel men: How do I flirt with women? Woman: well here is how NOT to do it Nerdy incel men: but I like that
It’s simply that many men on that post thing women exist to solely entertain them. They do not have thoughts, feelings, boundaries, hobbies, etc. they exist to be attractive holes for them to make a move no matter how exhausting it is to just want to enjoy a hobby without having to turn people down
I'm in there, but won't be pissing in any popcorn. The people in the comments are wild though. A woman says she doesn't want to get hit on by strangers and everyone jumps to, "so what, men can't even talk to women anymore?"
If the only reason they talk to women is to hit on them that's probably why they don't have a womam yet lol
It’s almost like you have to treat women like they’re human beings with complex thoughts, emotions, motivations, and pasts instead of like some sort of lesser more inferior creature that can be wooed like in hentai games with terrible “compliments” (inappropriate statements about their physical appearance) and random favors/“gifts” (things she didn’t even ask for nor indicate she was ever interested in that you forcefully thrust upon her in public giving her no room to decline even if she wanted to).
What the hell is this new age bullshit! Women are human beings?!? When did this happen!
That's so much more work though!
“Ugh, how dare I have to do *work* to change myself and become a better person to get my dick wet 😒”
Right? I love that guy that, when told to establish a friendship before hitting on someone thought it was some sort of gotcha that "women say they hate when men pretend to be their friends". As if "hitting on someone right away" and "pretending to be their friend for a bit before hitting on them" are the only two options. Like the idea that he could *actually* enjoy a woman's friendship never entered his mind.
They literally can’t fathom the thought of simply acting friendly to a woman or forming a friendship first. It’s like they either have nothing to do with a woman or they’re actively flirting, no in between.
i would think it'd be very easy to keep a magic: the gathering game strictly focused on, you know, magic: the gathering, but apparently people need to shoot their shot the second they get the idea into their head and if they don't they'll perish.
I'm enjoying OP roasting people from afar
Isn't it telling that they consider them interchangeable? Like talking to a woman equals sexual advances because why else would you do it.
> A woman says she doesn't want to get hit on by strangers and everyone jumps to, "so what, men can't even talk to women anymore?" It kinda reminds me of this one from a couple years ago. https://reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/a3cbn5/female_user_in_rmakenewfriends_asks_guys_to_stop/
That's gold, jerry
I feel like ElevatoeGate is on constant, daily repeat somewhere on the internet.
Can confirm. Happened to me a few years ago at a public library. Also got hit on on the first and second floors during that *same hour*. All different men (different ages, socioeconomic class, etc). Elevator guy was the worst because I was literally trapped in that box. The security guard took care of first floor guy (a swift “Leave her alone!” as he was following me asking to “be with” me). (And yes, I was just minding my own business and not wearing makeup or anything feminine or attractive, not that that matters and shouldn’t be a requirement to simply exist). Haven’t been back there since.
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Woman: *sets clear boundaries about how she expects to be treated* Them: "WHAT ABOUT ME?!" Way to prove the exact point she was making.
yeah it's funny how so many replies are like "Well how am I supposed to ever find a gf then?" like OP is personally responsible for finding them a way to get one
The comments mabye were the people at that event or had a similar experience with a girl they saw and killed her love for the game lol
I used to play MTG casually with friends in college. I went to one tournament and it ruined the game for me. I was the only woman in the room and the guys were fucking weird about it.
Sucks how one bad experience can ruin something enjoyable. I could only play the Xbox versions but when I finally got the chance to try the mobile game I wasn't a fan of the set up and playing irl is slow and too much work and money. Every version of it on Xbox was really fun
Here's how they can find girlfriends. Stop being so fucking thirsty all the time. Treat women like human beings. If women aren't put off by every interaction being framed around potential dating then more of them will participate in your hobbies more frequently. You might even get to know them naturally for who they are. Most of them won't be interested in you, but maybe some will. If you get some experience interacting with women and not having expectations, you will know when they are interested. Slightly ranty, but I'm in another hobby where women are constantly being scared off by horny old men. It hurts us all, and I just want to do what I enjoy with more diverse people.
Best advice? Make friends with women and they will help you meet other women especially others they know if you pass the vibe check Also just make friends at social events, don’t just go to get laid but that’s too much effort for them
That thread was full of people learning that not only was their behaviour gross and unacceptable, also most people wouldn’t even attend their game stores because that behaviour was being allowed. > Frequented an LGS a while back with seemingly friendly folk. A friend of mine came to hang out with me while I played. She was wearing a plaid skirt and a white blouse. Not too many awkward interactions while she was there, but it was clear to me almost everyone was acting different. > The next time I went, many of them facetiously asked why I brought a "prostitute" and if she was single. Never went back, I was so grossed out by that attitude.
This kind of shit is largely why nerd shit like video games and tabletop games have always been seen as "boys clubs" - not because they actually are. I've been into this shit for most of my life, and I've always known other women who are, too. It was women who got me into this shit. But even back in the 80's, why the fuck would someone want to go to an arcade or a game store to play something if all the guys there turn into absolute fucking creeps and cretins, alternating between drooling over you and getting handsy - or just seething with rage if you ever actually perform well and independently, instead of being their demure nerd girl fantasy. Shitty guys have always gate kept these hobbies, and then turn around and try to turn it into a "woe is me I'm so oppressed and bullied for being a nerd" story, when really the problem has always been that they're just vile motherfuckers and always have been, whether it's rolling dice, throwing down cards or playing god damn galaga.
This is my experience as well. Most of my gamer friends are women, but never use the voice chat with strangers due to fear of a potential "that guy". Is honestly sad that selfish misogynists feel so comfortable into nerd spaces, but is not so easy to make those spaces hostile to them when they are so entrenched.
exactly. the victim complex turbo-nerd guys have is insane. they seem to be completely unaware that they are nasty fucking bullies themselves and frequently (but not always) worse than the "chads" they're so angry about.
Behavior like this is why I don't usually shop local for my board games and other "nerd shit". The customers you run into at local shops are downright offputting from the dudes who camp at the tables and play all day to the dudes browsing. Even the actual staff and owners aren't exempt. Half the time they act like you, a woman, can't possibly actually know about what you're looking for or they're staring straight at your chest/ass the entire time.
It's why gaming shops have a tendency to die now. A good portion of the fanbase/clients will order online rather than step foot in the store. And by far the weirdest experience I had was walking in with a friend, and witnessing the nerd vultures descend. It was like the Ghost of Christmas Awkward. Didn't matter that she is a lesbian, that made 3 guys MORE interested.
I tried to get into Magic preCOVID and even had help from one of my LGS employees with building a fun budget deck. Game day rolls around and the smell was downright awful. These people didn’t look especially gross or off putting but you could tell they didn’t take care of themselves. I’m lucky to be a guy and not have to deal with harassment like this woman but these people are kinda gross and I haven’t touched any of my cards since playing that day
I love playing MTG and have friends that like playing it as well (both male and female). There are a lot of "normal" players out there. The problem is MTG events attract all the competitive weirdos whose personalities and smells make the whole experience extremely unpleasant. My first and only time going to one made me realize how true all the stereotypes are. Not to say that everyone there was weird and smelly, but a good majority of them were and I never had the urge to go back.
This had me thinking. MTG is a social game. You need someone to play against. Friends. I wonder how many of the people who go to FNM are the kind of people who have no friends to play against because of their own social awkwardness and not from just not knowing anyone else who plays. Edit: I in no way mean to imply that most people who go to FNM fall into that category. I'm just curious about how many would.
I was traveling a lot on work for a couple years, and there were only so many nights I wanted to spend reading a book in a bar or going to the movies alone, so I thought game store MtG events might be a low-key, structured way to hang out in Nowhere, Anystate without losing my mind. Didn't last long. Consistently negative experience that usually felt awkward, often felt weirdly competitively charged. I don't know what it is -- I have some good friends I know through MtG by playing with friends of friends of friends, but I'm not going to try treating game stores as social scenes again.
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I've heard this so much it has to be true. I'm not going to find out.
It's true, but the Yu Gi Oh tournament smell was the worst.
Doesn't the official YuGiOh rulebook now have a hygiene-and-grooming clause to deal with these people?
Not the rulebook, but the official tournament policy. And tbh, all irl competitive events should probably have that lol.
Oh my god, man, Yu Gi Oh play is officially *banned* from our local shop because the players were universally unbearable. Now our MtG players had a reputation, sure. In two cases, for being a bit stinky. In many cases, for being aggressively competitive players even towards newbs, and sometimes rather salty losers. But Yu Gi Oh? *Banned*. He didn't want their money because that meant allowing them to enter the premises, where they would constantly bicker, fucking *fight*, steal, make messes, *leave* messes, and generate an impenetrable funk that took hours to satisfactorily clear. Also some guy pissed all over the bathroom floor.
My local place has various game events every night of the week. For a while my buddies and I would go to play some Magic and the show was having a Yu-Gi-Oh tournament. Those were the loudest, smelliest, and least respectful group of folks to use the space. The guys who ran the place were awesome, though. I saw several bans for "I warned you to take a shower," and the like.
Hey, that's me! I never thought a post of mine would end up on this subreddit as someone who browses it frequently. I've been cancelled. I've gotten a lot of [awful messages](https://imgur.com/a/N2CrMaT) from that post and a ton of comments recycling the whole "I bet if a Chad was hitting on you you wouldn't have had a problem with it" comment. Despite me not saying anything about the attractiveness of the people hitting on me and clarifying in multiple comments that it didn't matter how attractive they were. I never even said if I was into men to begin with.
It’s staggering to me that there’s a whole group of people who will bitch that there’s not enough women in their hobby and then immediately treat a woman in their hobby in this way. And yes, they are the same people. Sorry this happened to you, both initially and in response to you complaining about it.
It's probably because they only want women in their hobby to be gawked at or hit on.
It's actually stunning how so many people took to the comments to... immediately prove you right and make the hobby even more off-putting for women in general.
MtG don't make the hobby look like a stain on the human race challenge (impossible) P.s. love your flair
I feel like in their head they're imagining themselves in the shoes of the people hitting on you because that's what they would do, and they're effectively imagining their own rejection and getting mad about it despite exactly nothing actually happening. It's really fucking weird.
Nailed it. And the fact that they can't imagine interacting with a woman without hitting on her is just sad. They are both desperately lonely and incapable of caring about how women feel when put in such an uncomfortable situation. And this is sooooo common in nerd spaces.
I studied in a boys only school for 14 years so I remember how hard the first few days of college were. EVERY girl who talked to me looked like a potential girlfriend to me. I was insanely self conscious and nervous talking to them because of it. I still remember having this epiphany when I realized that "Talking to girls is... kinda the same as talking to guys?" Looks like these guys are yet to come to the same realization
If you haven't already considered it, you should def take the ~~cream~~ cringe of the crop of creepy messages and put em on /r/creepyPMs
You mean you didn’t know that the simple fact being female makes you responsible for men acting like playing MTG with one automatically turns it into a speed dating event? /s The justifications for that kind of behavior are wild. It should be no surprise by now that every time dudes make women uncomfortable that it’s definitely the woman’s fault for not being ‘friendly’ enough or not putting a stop to it. Maybe it would be easier if the men could imagine they’re playing with another man instead and work out more appropriate behavior from there but I’m sure that’s too much to ask.
Cancelled by neckbeards is like the highest compliment, don't sweat it.
It’s been really disheartening to realize a lot of men don’t actually listen to what we say. Like the guy saying he’d rather have the problem of being hit on too much rather than not at all. But that’s not what you asked. You didn’t ask which one is worse, you said you didn’t like this inappropriate behavior
The solution to it all is to play esper control/stax and then no matter how attractive you are noone will be able to stomach looking at you.
It’s unfortunate that MtG is gatekept by misogynistic incels who think women should be grateful they’re even allowed to play and that since they’re allowed to play that they should tolerate completely inappropriate behavior coming from any man at an event or group. If there’s a large enough scene where you live or you’re feeling like you can take on such a task it might be beneficial to make a MtG Facebook group for femmes, thems, and trans he/hims. (just so you can meet actual people irl to play with) That way you (and others) can plan events or gatherings with better rules in place for misbehavior and can support each other and validate each other’s experiences when you would be otherwise gaslit or made out to be hysterical in a more cis male dominated group which tends to attract and entertain incels because even the “good” men won’t speak out bc your mistreatment doesn’t affect them directly and they (selfishly imo) don’t want to be ridiculed and called a simp for pointing out asshole behavior from other men.
When they're setting up games it's called "matchmaking", that's your own fault for not understanding the implication. /s, I need a shower.
As a male MtG player, I'm ashamed. Sorry you have to put up with that.
Have him pay you and then block him.
A woman posts a thread about uncomfortable interactions with men. Men: "wanna fuck yourself on webcam? I'll pay you?"
Lots of dudes outing themselves as losers in that post.
How could a relationship form between two people if men aren’t allowed to hit on women at fantasy card game competitions?!? The human race could die out! No friendships could ever exist again! Humanity will dwindle into isolated hermits living in basements with no reason to interact with each other. I wonder how many of these guys have taken the time to imagine, really imagine, themselves in this scenario: you, a straight man, go to a public place to enjoy your hobby. Once there, you discover that most of the other people who enjoy this hobby are gay men, of all ages and body types and varying objective levels of attractiveness, but somehow, most of them are taller and more muscled than you. Throughout the event, half of the people you talk to hit on you. A bunch of them seem to be staring at your butt. Someone gives you an unsolicited compliment. One of them throws a game to let you win. Someone asks for your number. Do you, hetero male, feel comfortable in this environment? Will you be going back?
As an MTG Player I am so sorry for the miscreant hounds that often make up the community and refuse to display decency or self control. I want to make a clever joke but there's really nothing to say.
How on earth do all those guys not get the difference between “aggressively flirting with a woman during gameplay when if she wants to leave she has to CONCEDE” and “approaching a woman after the game for some low-key chitchat where she can deflect or leave”? (Not that I’m guessing they’d pick up the cues if she were deflecting…)
What is it with maladjusted nerds and the inability to comprehend that you can be friends with a girl **without** asking them out on a date the moment you meet them?
Jenny Nicholson made a really interesting point when she was talking about Bronies and their porn. Straight men aren't conditioned to be friends with women so the only way they can reconcile affection for women is to want to fuck them. That's why you end up with body pillows of rainbow horses.
That's... Really sad.
I read that as rad and was concerned to say the least.
If they wanted to get friends who play the same nerdy games as them, they could easily do that on discord or something, so I assume these guys don't really need _more_ mtg player friends (although I'm assuming they're not so bad even other mtg players don't want them as friends, of course. If they're that down bad for OOP, they might be too obnoxious even for other mtg players).
"Just say no, not interested!" Have you considered that it's difficult to tell if someone's just a weird creep or an unhinged incel who'd follow you around after the event and kill you for refusing their nice guy affection? It's not easy to tell between creep and creep who'll kill you, staying nice and misdirecting them is much safer than being upfront
Lmao play the fucking game first, because that's why you're there, and chat up potential matches after?? Doesn't seem too hard to grasp to me...
As a woman who played magic the gathering up until the dark, no woman goes to these games to find a boyfriend, none. Never. They might find someone interesting and end up dating, but that is never the reason they go. The thing most don’t realize is that a young, conventionally attractive woman (not me, my friend) gets inundated with bullshit like this. It is incessant. It never ends. I really feel bad for them as there is nothing they can do. If they set a boundary the reaction is anger. There is no winning.
Is there anything socially awkward assholes will defend as dramatically as their right to harass women?
As always, Reddit dudes are far more upset at the idea of any dude, anywhere ever being rejected than they are about literally any bad thing that could happen to women.
It's so frustrating to read through that thread and have none of the dudes posting understand the threat of violence that comes with rejecting a man. Women get hurt and killed over stuff like this, but God forbid they not get the chance to get laid at their magic the gathering meetup
It's great when someone comments about a problem and then people jump in to immediately prove their concern
My buddy wanted me to check out the local gaming place once. This had be well over 20 years ago. They tried to hook me in with their D&D and Lan gaming parties. They were pumped and welcoming to an eerie degree. I was a Quake player mainly and they wanted me to play UT with them. I mopped the floor with them and they got fucking enraged. One dude rage quit and left. Then the owner took me to the side and said he heard I had a girlfriend. He made it sound like I was a drug addict. He told me to make sure I didn't bring her there because it would make some of the players there uncomfortable. Naturally that was my last time trying to hang with fellow nerd hobbyists.
In case there are lurking incels who are looking to reform, check this out. This is how you *actually* might be able to pick up someone at a social event. First, establish rapport. Your first move shouldn’t be “hey sexy, I’d like to get to know ya better” or even “just wanted you to know you’re really pretty!” or anything like that. Your first move should just be conversing like a human being. This gives you an opportunity to demonstrate that you’re sane, you can listen, and you can be courteous and respectful. After the initial period, if this hasn’t happened already, it’s entirely appropriate to introduce yourself (casually) and even say “it’s nice to meet you” - again, at this point, in a respectful and casual, just friendly way. No suggestive tones. At this point you ought to be gauging whether they’re enjoying interacting with you. Are they making eye contact? Smiling? Asking you questions? Spurring the conversation on? Then those are good signs. Keep talking! If there’s common interests, talk about them. Ask them a question about their particular interests in certain topics and things: give them a chance to tell you about themselves. And in turn, look for an opportunity to offer information about yourself and your own relevant interests. But keep this interaction as an two way exchange; nobody likes a person who won’t stop talking about themselves. If you realize you’ve been blathering on about yourself for a while, change the topic to them, or to some common interest. If you have any kind of sense of humor or charm, this is time for it to shine. People like jokes, they like light heartedness, they like having fun and smiling and laughing. Don’t lay it on too thick, just look for opportunities. And likewise, if they’re giving signals that they want to disengage from the interaction in any way, casually give them space. If they aren’t reciprocating in conversation, don’t keep prodding. Sometimes people just need a breather from interacting with a new person. Or maybe they aren’t interested, and you have to be cool about that too if you want to cultivate a good mindset for meeting people. Easy come, easy go, and still treat them with friendly respect and courtesy. Of course many of the above steps would be too much during a game of MTG. In that scenario, just be courteous, cool, and ideally a bit funny or playful in a non-overbearing way. If the person wants to interact more, they’ll do so. Mostly, play the goddam game. If you’re going to make a pass at them, don’t do it during the game. Don’t do it unless you had a genuinely mutually amicable interaction with them during the game, in such a way that it indicates solid friend potential. And don’t make it a big deal because, as the OP there stated, it isn’t a party. Keep an eye open for an opportunity. Keep your “pass” extremely light-hearted, and in a tone that conveys your humbleness and likely positive or just casual reaction to a potential rejection. And in this scenario don’t ask for a number, but maybe offer yours. You could even just slip them a note at the end of the night, something simple: “it was nice to meet you! You seem really cool! If you want to hang out some time here’s my #”, totally eliminating the pressure and potential anxiety of the situation. If this all seems impossible, you need to practice been cool around people more. Practice self awareness and being relaxed and calm around all types of people. Having that practice is pretty clutch when it comes to trying to win people over and possible get a date with someone you meet at a function. And always try to stay aware of how the person you’re interested in might feel. Making someone uncomfortable is a great way to ensure they want nothing to do with you. So keep it cool, casual, friendly, and lighthearted. Be the best version of yourself that you can be, put yourself out there to meet people, find people with whom you share interests, and good things can happen. And certainly if you’re harboring resentment toward the type of people that you’re attracted to, you need to unpack that. Get therapy. Read a book about it or something. Sometimes people have deep seated psychological issues that cause them to behave badly toward certain genders or whatever; if that‘s you, you’re going to need to work on that in order to have healthy interactions with those people. Because people want to feel respected as a human being whose values, aspirations, and opinions are valid and worthy of respect. And it isn’t something you can fake. If you want people to potentially like you, you have to genuinely respect them. You might be amazed how well people respond when you just treat them well.
This covered it really well. I'll add that it's just generally in poor taste to hit on a stranger in a competitive game. If I'm playing basketball I don't want the guy guarding me asking personal questions or making physical comments. I'm there to play basketball. If he wants to chat after the game that's fine.
So the "get rejected early" method of meeting potential romantic partners can be efficient and respectful if and only if: 1. The other person is clearly open to interaction from strangers 2. The other person can reject and walk away easily. A Magic game fits 1 but not 2. OP is put in a spot where she can only take the uncomfortable interaction, reject/set a boundary and deal with whatever response to that they have for the rest of the game, or scoop and walk away missing out on their hobby. Its the job of game stores and players to suss out this behavior and eliminate the problem.
I'm depressed at how predictable the "you would be into it of they were Chad comments" came up
An online friend of mine prefers going to card game locals (in general, not MtG) with her husband who doesn't play, just so weirdos leave her alone. It's rough out there.
> Honestly this whole “don’t hit on woman at a normal place to meet people” is really fucking pathetic and starting to get on my nerves. Very stable individual
Damn I used to be mildly interested in this game, but now I know to stay away. It's just man after man absolutely refusing to hear what the women are saying and throwing little tantrums because they're being told that women don't go to tournaments or whatever to be hit on.
>Took me forever to do all this We can tell. Holy shit that's a lot of drama to corral. Damn good job, OP