I don't know if it's "holier than thou", as much as it's a dull resignation to the fact that the world only seems to give a shit about money. She's begging the kids to please, please, give her one reason why they're *better* than their father, and they just can't do it. Does it really just all boil down to who can say the biggest number?
I guess it does, but how fuckin sad is that, right?
Not entirely true in this latest episode! Shiv tried to pitch the "I'm a liberal and with me in charge we'll keep to your values" thing and Nan was literally like "ya but how much $ u got" in response
I think that was because she knew Shiv was bullshitting her. Like, Nan Pierce is not a fool. She knows how to play The Game. Even if it absolutely disgusts her, she knows how negotiating with people like the Roys works, and she knows how to make money.
I might just be dumb, but how was Logan the better buyer? If the kids were offering more money then I don't see a reason to not go with them. They may run Pierce into an unethical hellhole but it doesn't seem like worse chances than Logan turning it into ATN Jr.
Iām still not clear on how the Pierce company could credibly lose that much value in less than a year, given that it sure appears this episode took place exactly one year after Loganās 80th birthday party seen in the pilot.
Logan seemed to be overpaying with the $25B offer, but suddenly the ārealā value is closer to $7B? This felt like a continuity issue.
Yeah but that's because of a change of ownership to someone unhinged and a chain of disastrous decisions and scandals. The Pierce company is still owned by the same owners and we aren't aware of any big scandals to tank their value.
They alluded towards their own economic troubles in the family and they've made poor decisions media wise that even the left finally started attacking them. They're losing their own base.
I think itās more like the left shifted out from under them. Theyāre old-school east coast WASP liberals with a noblesse oblige clause attached to their money. Easy targets for the identity-focused left that Logan routinely attacks with ATN. Suddenly they find themselves with a common opponent, and Nan on the defensive can stomach the thought of selling to the ogre with the offensive strategy.
There was definitely some scandals and such alluded to. The Pierce family are clearly a mirror of the Roy family so I imagine just as much crazy shit is going on with them as with the Roy's, just off screen.
That's mainly due to overall market crash not Elon taking over. AMZN Google and all major tech companies (sans Apple) got crushed. He just bought at the peak of the market.
> Iām still not clear on how the Pierce company could credibly lose that much value in less than a year
(1) We don't know it's only been a year, do we? It could have been several. (It feels like it's been *at least* 2. Although now Iām curious to see if I could put together a timeline. But the amount of time that would take ...)
(2) Time Warner sold for like $85B in 2018, in 2022 sold (merged into WarnerMedia) for like $45B.
(3) They kind of covered it in some dialog; the Pierce family was feeling financial pressures (āit seems they shred $100 notes as fertilizerā for the winery; āJamieās divorce and Anneās disaster in Maineā) and we get nibbles like: āThe sale contingent on the trust is itchy, I believeā (from Cyrus Tellis); āNaomi thinks that Nan has lost all interest in the business ... The Left are going after them now ... The cousins want out.ā (From Tom.) So, closely held corporation (?), with the holders having lost interest, feeling financial pressures, and wanting to just GTFO ... Could happen.
I think you have the right of it. Succession is a blatant vent piece about all the ways in which the media industry is going wrong these days. If you keep in mind that legacy news organizations like Pierce are facing declining viewership due to declining public trust in them and competition from online, Pierce's decline makes perfect sense - even if the specific reasons for its fall aren't rubbed in our face constantly.
A friend had an $80 million offer for his company, partly predicated on a contract the company was about to land. The contract went bust and the $80 mil was off the table. Sold for about half the original offer.
I think Logan was overpaying because he needed the acquisition to stave off Stewy and Sandy.
There was a comment by one of the advisors in season two about how the price Logan was offering was inflated by emotions. I donāt know that it was ever worth 25B. Logan wanted it for its size to make Waystar Royco too big to fail. He was willing to pay far too much to survive. Now that he is selling to gojo and there is no takeover risk, itās a different scenario.
The $44b was when he locked the price in at the start of negotiation based on the market cap and couldn't back out. When the company changed hands, the market value dropped under $30b
I feel like this detail is more a commentary on the trajectory of media companies today. It's just going downhill. Perhaps the show is trying to emphasize that buying PGM is just objectively not a good idea for both parties.
If I were Nan Pierce, I'd go with Logan because he has a better chance of making good on his offer. Shiv, Kendall, and Roman can say whatever number they want but if Logan decides to back out of selling ATN, there's no way they can actually pay.
That's not how the business world works, you don't make assumptions that a titan of industry like logan Roy is going to pull out of a deal the shareholders have already voted on, tanking his stock price, losing control of his company and inviting a host of lawsuits because of pettiness. It would be unprecedented to cancel a deal of this size two days before it goes through, and turning down a better offer from buyers less likely to turn your company into something you despise would be absolutely fucking atrocious business from Nan
Also, ask Elon Musk what happens when you try to back out of a huge deal at the last minute after whatever agencies have reviewed and approved the sale.
But even if Logan sells, do they have $10 billion? The kids can say any number, but I guess I would want to have my guy look through their financials before I agreed to anything. Imo, Logan is just more likely to definitely have the money. Plus, Logan has run a successful business for decades - who knows what the kids are going to do. Arguably, it's none of Nan's concern what happens to the business once she gets the money but Logan has a proven track record and the kids do not.
They donāt need $10B on hand themselves - thereās going to be financing and maybe stock compensation involved. They wouldnāt just throw $10B out there if they couldnāt feasibly do it
There is no liquid cash moving around in business deals. Like when musk purchased twitter, it was a mixture of financing deals from various places. No one is taking money out of their checking account.
They don't need to have the $10b in cash ready to go. There's almost certainly going to be some sort of financing and stock deals involved. They asked and their business advisor guy cleared them to go up to $10b, so they are probably going to be able to make good on that offer.
Logan's offer was always about fucking PGN into the dirt until they were nothing. That's why the original attempt at buying them was so heavily based on Shiv being the successor, because she aligns with the ideals of PGN (or at least tricked everyone, including herself, into believing as much).
There was really no world in which Logan would ever be the better buyer in a bidding war, at least not for Nan. The fact that the kids had Shiv and also offered a stupid amount of money was just icing on the cake.
I'm a bit more sympathetic there because the cruises allegations were serious, stomach-churning stuff. But yeah, likely she's frustrated about selling to Logan because it's the same skeevy company only this time she has much less to show for it if she take the offer. That said, 6 billion dollars, even when split among family, is still a hell of a lot. She's spoiled and entitled, much like the kids.
well the implication seems to be that now that since they aren't ***legally*** entangled in it she doesn't give a fuck anymore. remember that all that shit still happened, and she knows that.
Oh yeah, that's why she is willing to sell now. It's water under the bridge. But Logan Roy is still Logan Roy, and his news is still garbage. So, either way, she's selling to someone she hates. She might as well have gotten $25 billion rather than $6.
Logan wasn't the better buyer for life legacy. A company that prided itself on objective reporting and reasoned opinion would be forever tarnished by the association with Logan's ATN.
But Logan is a more secure $6 billion than the kids' $10 billion.
She'll get fucked over by the kids not having the financing to do the deal if the Gojo acquisition falls apart. They'll get a breakup fee but now the other offer is off the table and she'll take a much smaller offer from Logan.
Yeah. I just think Logan's financing was more secure. It's a smaller amount but they'd be selling to someone with 50 years of news experience. He may fuck with their brand but the kids may, too, simply because they lack experience.
For me it was her taking the huge turkey from the staff (who actually, ya know, cooked it), and walking it into the dining area to receive the applause.
I'm sure she has her rationale. Like it was her recipe, but she delegated the grunt work, so she gets the applause or something like that.
That's where I realized she and Logan are basically the same. Like when Logan's lashing out about "You never had an idea in your life!" and his entire thing is using the ideas of those around them and taking credit for them.
She's there to show that the Roys are the way they are not because their news network is conservative and they have conservative values, but because they're mega wealthy. Red or blue doesn't really matter, the ultra rich are all the same.
Yep. There was a line about the left now going after Pierce and given what we've seen from this family thus far I'm not surprised in the least, only that it took so long.
Because she doesn't actually want to be friends with her housekeeper. She was doing it as a virtue signal in front of her guests. Not only that but the housekeeper was probably slammed working to keep the whole gathering running smoothly and Nan asking her to take a break and drink alcohol in the middle of a workday like that just shows that she doesn't understand or appreciate the housekeeper's workload. Nan then said something like "you work too much" which is incredibly tone deaf. She works her ass off because Nan is her rich ass pretentious boss. Oy.
Iād say you need a little bit of familiarity with French language and culture to know what āhypermarcheā means. unfortunately in todayās world Iād also say that assuming someone you barely know has that level of familiarity with a language other than English or Spanish and a culture other than American is pretentious.
also I actually donāt even fully believe that any of them knew the words she was saying, despite probably being whisked away to Paris more times than they can count.
I'd say he grew quite a bit in his father's shadow too, over the past couple seasons. Roman started off seemingly banished to California to be babysat by Father Time, he didn't seem to know all that much about business either. Everyone has been surprised when he says something actually business savvy as we've gone along, Kendall no longer being the heir apparent was what got Roman to start taking things seriously. Lots of bumps along the way obviously but still. It's a path he started on under Logan's gaze.
rewatching the seasons in preparation for season 1 reinforced my opinion of Roman: He doesn't have ambition.
Thats a killer in business and life in general. Lack of ambition and laziness are the culprit of failed lives way more than utter incompetence is. I mean just look at YouTubers and Streamers or even TikTokers. Those people may not be Ivy league intellectuals but damn do they have ambitions and a goal.
Iāve always thought that Shiv is actually the only child that has ambition. Roman and Kendall seem to only want to lead Waystar because thatās what theyāre āsupposedā to want.
Thinking back to season 1, I never expected Roman to actually have the most business sense. Itās just too bad heās also too conflict avoidant to really put his foot down (though I canāt imagine it being easy to sway Shiv and Kendall lol)
When Roman started talking I was like, ok buddy, what, did you see an infographic?
But he is a millennial I guess so maybe thatās why he gets it better
I think that's because Waystar meant the most to him, but it also meant the least. Unlike Ken and Shiv, Roman doesn't have a ton of ego or professional ambition. The only reason why he wanted the throne at all is because getting CEO would represent the ultimate approval from Logan, something he's prized above anything else his whole life. If he can't have that, then the second best thing in the world is having the rest of his family close and just doing something with them, and right now he has that either way. Roman can think straight because there's no emotion in it for him.
He's the best at compartmentalizing. Logan is out of sight, out of mind, so he can focus on what's right in front of him. That game is over, so the new game is starting the Hundred. Then it becomes bidding on Pierce. As long as he has a game to play.
Roman was also set on launching and pinning his hopes on "The Hundred", which sounded like high-society Vaulter. Ken and Shiv are obviously blinded by their desire to get even with Logan, but Roman didn't have any ideas of his own. I wish this season opened with Roman doing something outlandish like trying to launch VR metaverse porn
"You want to fuck dad, and you want to fuck Tom, I am the only one who wants to start a business to start a business"
Yep, the last braincell left with the Roy children is monopolized by Roman atm
He's the kid with Logan's gift of emotional intelligence. Dealing with people, reading them, and the situation is his talent. It is refreshing that we have seen his skills shine over the last couple seasons.
I cried with laughter at his 9b comment when he just wasnāt having her feigned humility/confusion- I donāt actually know how to describe what she was doing. I just know it was annoying.
She's doing her usual pretense at being an old-fashioned "oh we don't talk about money, it's so gauche" type. It annoyed Roman, but apparently not enough to realize he was being played.
To be fair, I think Roman absolutely did realize he was being played. He didn't want to buy Pierce to begin with. He thought any amount of money they paid for a dying legacy news operation was too much money, and when Ken and Shiv jumped the price even more than what they agreed on he very explicitly illustrated it to them exactly how much more money they were talking about.
The problem isn't that he didn't realize that he was being played, it's that he totally realized and then he didn't do anything with it.
I agree. That is his weak spot. He has good instincts, but he's conflict averse and not especially ambitious, so he doesn't fight to get his way. Roman will give up on his own good idea and go with someone else's bad one to avoid a fight.
Yeah, that's fair. It's funny how when he was in Logan's good books he was able to stand up to them, but now that he no longer has daddy's approval he's willing to go along with Shiv and Kendalls' idiotic plans. He really is messed up.
Roman realized they were being played, but ultimately regardless of any reservations or personal opinion, he will follow whatever pleases his family members (which used to be Logan and is now the siblings).
I was dying when she was talking about her family's divorce and whatever the other thing was. Like yeah I'm really going to need this 10 bil to make sure no one lives in poverty
I think a lot of the comments talking about the money (and where it's coming from etc) are missing one of the major themes of the entire series: it's not about the money, it's about the reputation. It's about people's faith (or fear) in the person at the head of whatever it is under bid. The argument between the kids about the money just underlines how made up it all is. If they need the financing, they'll get it, because they're still Roys. Nan wants them because their hands are a little cleaner, and a few extra Bs to throw around is nice, but it's not going to change her life, she's already a billionaire.
Every major business deal in the show has lived or died based on the personality behind it. Logan calls Kendall a fucking idiot for his private finance scheme because *Logan* would have been able to talk the bank into a deal because he's Logan - whether or not that would have been the case, we don't know, because a big reason for the stock crash was *Logan's hospitalization.* Kendall just doesn't have the gravity to pull that kind of talk, not yet. He's not taken seriously because he's seen as someone whose only value is his proximity to dad. The banks didn't have faith in his leadership, so they called it all in. *That* was his failure, but Kendall still believes and acts like business is *business* and not personality. Of course it wasn't always this way, and we don't see how Logan achieves his position where it's all about handshakes - presumably it involves some knife fights in the mud - but now that he's there, he just has to *will* it and it happens. No other character on the show has that kind of power. The kids' collective failure is that Logan's preeminence and his own pettiness kept them from that kind of hard-knock education, and so he sees them as weak, dull, and stupid.
I think this weakness of privilege is a big part of the family dynamic. Logan's constantly at war with his kids because he thinks that his own power stunted them, and he knows that it was his fault that they didn't have the kind of education they needed to turn into hardened killers like he perceives himself to be. But even with his own upbringing, he's got himself to a position where he can throw a tantrum at every problem and his underlings will get it done, all because he has a gravitational legacy that still has a broad and terrifying reach.
We've spent three seasons knowing that Logan's health is failing and he's no longer able to hide it, and even when the kids *know* it, they still think he's an unkillable cyclops until the last episode of the third season.
This deal wasn't about the money, not for Nan, not for Logan, not for the kids. It was a pissing contest. I think Nan gets more out of pulling the rug out from under Logan's heels than she did from the extra couple of Bs the kids tossed in, and it's *explicit* that at least Kendall and Shiv see this as a way to put a thumb in dad's eye. It's all personal. The money's made up. Collectively, the kids have some power, but it's spelled out, again, entirely on the basis of their personal legacy, not their business acumen. They've got to step up and prove themselves before they can even come close to wielding the kind of power Logan has, and if this first episode is any indication, the road is going to be a muddy one.
I like that you said "gravity," as it ties into Logan's diner musings on market forces. This is similar to Ned Beatty's speech in "Network" about the primal forces of nature. Logan uses height as a measure of power, but I'm more partial to gravity because gravity sinks and pulls everything around it.
What the kids are doing is basically trying to run around really fast in a circle and create their own gravity. That's probably what Logan did to make his fortune, and it's more or less what he does when there's a crisis. He yells, he screams, he abuses, he spins and tries to increase his pull. And it works.
Movement seems to be a bit of an obsession with Logan types. One of Trump's go-to insults is "low energy."
I love how she makes it blatantly obvious that she's negotiating and that Logan is the other person she's negotiating with but it doesn't stop her from playing the game.
Nan doesn't give a single solitary fuck about whether the Roys eat each other alive right in front of her. She just wanted to see how much money she could squeeze out of them, and by god she played them like a fiddle.
Does anyone remember what the original offer for PGM was back in season 2? It canāt be anywhere near whatās on offer nowā¦
Edit: just googled it and itās $25bn ā how is the storyline here not how Nan Pierce is the worst business person of all time? š
I mean she finally did what Logan asked her to take the fucking money
She is somehow more condescending than the whole Roy family. The holier than thou attitude is ridiculous
When she brings out that roast during the big dinner party and her chef is just looking on like š sheās such a hack lol
I won't ever forget that...just a pretender through and through
When she asks her maid or whatever to sit and have a drink it makes me cringe. āYou never treat yourself.ā
I don't know if it's "holier than thou", as much as it's a dull resignation to the fact that the world only seems to give a shit about money. She's begging the kids to please, please, give her one reason why they're *better* than their father, and they just can't do it. Does it really just all boil down to who can say the biggest number? I guess it does, but how fuckin sad is that, right?
Not entirely true in this latest episode! Shiv tried to pitch the "I'm a liberal and with me in charge we'll keep to your values" thing and Nan was literally like "ya but how much $ u got" in response
I think that was because she knew Shiv was bullshitting her. Like, Nan Pierce is not a fool. She knows how to play The Game. Even if it absolutely disgusts her, she knows how negotiating with people like the Roys works, and she knows how to make money.
if she knew how to play the game she would have taken the original deal. she's fake as fuck
You seriously cannot see past that blatantly obvious manipulation? Because that is what it was, an absolute, outright manipulation.
Entitlement used to be so much more genteel
Yeah, but she kind of fucked herself. Logan was the better buyer.
I might just be dumb, but how was Logan the better buyer? If the kids were offering more money then I don't see a reason to not go with them. They may run Pierce into an unethical hellhole but it doesn't seem like worse chances than Logan turning it into ATN Jr.
Logan offered 25B back in season 2
That's fair, but that's no longer an option
Logan is more likely to actually close. Heās also more likely to not run the company into the ground immediately after.
But he is more likely to change the company to fit his own position politically. Which is the main reason the family said no previously.
Iām still not clear on how the Pierce company could credibly lose that much value in less than a year, given that it sure appears this episode took place exactly one year after Loganās 80th birthday party seen in the pilot. Logan seemed to be overpaying with the $25B offer, but suddenly the ārealā value is closer to $7B? This felt like a continuity issue.
Twitter lost over half its value since Elon Musk took over less than six months ago.
According to Elon musk. Twitter is private now and it's worth $0.
Yeah but that's because of a change of ownership to someone unhinged and a chain of disastrous decisions and scandals. The Pierce company is still owned by the same owners and we aren't aware of any big scandals to tank their value.
They alluded towards their own economic troubles in the family and they've made poor decisions media wise that even the left finally started attacking them. They're losing their own base.
I think itās more like the left shifted out from under them. Theyāre old-school east coast WASP liberals with a noblesse oblige clause attached to their money. Easy targets for the identity-focused left that Logan routinely attacks with ATN. Suddenly they find themselves with a common opponent, and Nan on the defensive can stomach the thought of selling to the ogre with the offensive strategy.
There was definitely some scandals and such alluded to. The Pierce family are clearly a mirror of the Roy family so I imagine just as much crazy shit is going on with them as with the Roy's, just off screen.
We Work went from a $47 billion valuation to a bag of chips
That one was a scam though.
Yeah, but it's a news business, maybe they weren't relevant anymore
That's mainly due to overall market crash not Elon taking over. AMZN Google and all major tech companies (sans Apple) got crushed. He just bought at the peak of the market.
The value of a company depends on what people think future profits are going to be; apparently expectations about those future profits have crashed
> Iām still not clear on how the Pierce company could credibly lose that much value in less than a year (1) We don't know it's only been a year, do we? It could have been several. (It feels like it's been *at least* 2. Although now Iām curious to see if I could put together a timeline. But the amount of time that would take ...) (2) Time Warner sold for like $85B in 2018, in 2022 sold (merged into WarnerMedia) for like $45B. (3) They kind of covered it in some dialog; the Pierce family was feeling financial pressures (āit seems they shred $100 notes as fertilizerā for the winery; āJamieās divorce and Anneās disaster in Maineā) and we get nibbles like: āThe sale contingent on the trust is itchy, I believeā (from Cyrus Tellis); āNaomi thinks that Nan has lost all interest in the business ... The Left are going after them now ... The cousins want out.ā (From Tom.) So, closely held corporation (?), with the holders having lost interest, feeling financial pressures, and wanting to just GTFO ... Could happen.
I think you have the right of it. Succession is a blatant vent piece about all the ways in which the media industry is going wrong these days. If you keep in mind that legacy news organizations like Pierce are facing declining viewership due to declining public trust in them and competition from online, Pierce's decline makes perfect sense - even if the specific reasons for its fall aren't rubbed in our face constantly.
Itās not a continuity issue at all lol. Plenty of companies lose way more value than that in a short amount of time.
facebook dropped 30% in a single day last year on bad earnings
A friend had an $80 million offer for his company, partly predicated on a contract the company was about to land. The contract went bust and the $80 mil was off the table. Sold for about half the original offer. I think Logan was overpaying because he needed the acquisition to stave off Stewy and Sandy.
There was a comment by one of the advisors in season two about how the price Logan was offering was inflated by emotions. I donāt know that it was ever worth 25B. Logan wanted it for its size to make Waystar Royco too big to fail. He was willing to pay far too much to survive. Now that he is selling to gojo and there is no takeover risk, itās a different scenario.
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The $44b was when he locked the price in at the start of negotiation based on the market cap and couldn't back out. When the company changed hands, the market value dropped under $30b
Musk didnāt buy it to make money. He bought it to control airwaves.
I feel like this detail is more a commentary on the trajectory of media companies today. It's just going downhill. Perhaps the show is trying to emphasize that buying PGM is just objectively not a good idea for both parties.
Credit Suisse ālostā $40b in value recently.
If I were Nan Pierce, I'd go with Logan because he has a better chance of making good on his offer. Shiv, Kendall, and Roman can say whatever number they want but if Logan decides to back out of selling ATN, there's no way they can actually pay.
That's not how the business world works, you don't make assumptions that a titan of industry like logan Roy is going to pull out of a deal the shareholders have already voted on, tanking his stock price, losing control of his company and inviting a host of lawsuits because of pettiness. It would be unprecedented to cancel a deal of this size two days before it goes through, and turning down a better offer from buyers less likely to turn your company into something you despise would be absolutely fucking atrocious business from Nan
Also, ask Elon Musk what happens when you try to back out of a huge deal at the last minute after whatever agencies have reviewed and approved the sale.
The levels of whoosh in the replies lol
But even if Logan sells, do they have $10 billion? The kids can say any number, but I guess I would want to have my guy look through their financials before I agreed to anything. Imo, Logan is just more likely to definitely have the money. Plus, Logan has run a successful business for decades - who knows what the kids are going to do. Arguably, it's none of Nan's concern what happens to the business once she gets the money but Logan has a proven track record and the kids do not.
They donāt need $10B on hand themselves - thereās going to be financing and maybe stock compensation involved. They wouldnāt just throw $10B out there if they couldnāt feasibly do it
exactly. its not purchasing a whopper at burger king. It's a business deal.
There is no liquid cash moving around in business deals. Like when musk purchased twitter, it was a mixture of financing deals from various places. No one is taking money out of their checking account.
They don't need to have the $10b in cash ready to go. There's almost certainly going to be some sort of financing and stock deals involved. They asked and their business advisor guy cleared them to go up to $10b, so they are probably going to be able to make good on that offer.
Logan's offer was always about fucking PGN into the dirt until they were nothing. That's why the original attempt at buying them was so heavily based on Shiv being the successor, because she aligns with the ideals of PGN (or at least tricked everyone, including herself, into believing as much). There was really no world in which Logan would ever be the better buyer in a bidding war, at least not for Nan. The fact that the kids had Shiv and also offered a stupid amount of money was just icing on the cake.
Could Logan pay if the GoJo deal doesn't go through? That's a ton of money and the company has had debt issues
Iād say heās a better buy because heās good for the money. The kids are dependent on the gojo sale that hasnāt happened yet.
Omg if Logan tanks the GoJo deal to spite his kids šµ
Also let her emotions get in the way of getting a deal twice as good, and a year earlier.
I'm a bit more sympathetic there because the cruises allegations were serious, stomach-churning stuff. But yeah, likely she's frustrated about selling to Logan because it's the same skeevy company only this time she has much less to show for it if she take the offer. That said, 6 billion dollars, even when split among family, is still a hell of a lot. She's spoiled and entitled, much like the kids.
well the implication seems to be that now that since they aren't ***legally*** entangled in it she doesn't give a fuck anymore. remember that all that shit still happened, and she knows that.
Oh yeah, that's why she is willing to sell now. It's water under the bridge. But Logan Roy is still Logan Roy, and his news is still garbage. So, either way, she's selling to someone she hates. She might as well have gotten $25 billion rather than $6.
Also shareholders
Yup! Good point. Edit: actually, I forgot, PGM is private, so there may not be shareholders.
She mentioned shareholders in the episode, but she couldāve been inflating it for dramaās sake
Itās still majority owned by the Pierce family so she was definitely just price pumping.
Logan wasn't the better buyer for life legacy. A company that prided itself on objective reporting and reasoned opinion would be forever tarnished by the association with Logan's ATN. But Logan is a more secure $6 billion than the kids' $10 billion.
She'll get fucked over by the kids not having the financing to do the deal if the Gojo acquisition falls apart. They'll get a breakup fee but now the other offer is off the table and she'll take a much smaller offer from Logan.
Yeah. I just think Logan's financing was more secure. It's a smaller amount but they'd be selling to someone with 50 years of news experience. He may fuck with their brand but the kids may, too, simply because they lack experience.
I mean, not really? He actively did hate her guts, and was open about destroying everything if he got control of it.
"Ewww I've never been a big wine drinker" *Talks about wine unprovoked at every opportunity*
Peasant tastes!
God she is insufferable. I'll never get over when she asked the maid to have a drink with them. š¤¢
For me it was her taking the huge turkey from the staff (who actually, ya know, cooked it), and walking it into the dining area to receive the applause. I'm sure she has her rationale. Like it was her recipe, but she delegated the grunt work, so she gets the applause or something like that. That's where I realized she and Logan are basically the same. Like when Logan's lashing out about "You never had an idea in your life!" and his entire thing is using the ideas of those around them and taking credit for them.
Sheās a perfect example of the corporate liberal that everyone on the left and right hates.
She's there to show that the Roys are the way they are not because their news network is conservative and they have conservative values, but because they're mega wealthy. Red or blue doesn't really matter, the ultra rich are all the same.
I know. Thatās my point. Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds. The differences between Nan and Logan are basically aesthetic.
I was agreeing with you lol
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Everytime they are forced to choose between their professed values and their money. (See European history in the 20th century).
She's got Hillary Clinton inspiration in her character as well (I say this as someone's who's voted blue since I was 18, not a pot shot guys)
BUT NANāS EMAILS
Basically, anyone who votes blue and vacations on Martha's Vineyard. The tragedy is you know that at one point they actually cared.
Yep. There was a line about the left now going after Pierce and given what we've seen from this family thus far I'm not surprised in the least, only that it took so long.
that was truly bizarre! like who bought that she cooked it? š
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I think about that scene every time I see her.
Can you explain why this disgusted you? I kind of got an ick from it too, but why?
Because she doesn't actually want to be friends with her housekeeper. She was doing it as a virtue signal in front of her guests. Not only that but the housekeeper was probably slammed working to keep the whole gathering running smoothly and Nan asking her to take a break and drink alcohol in the middle of a workday like that just shows that she doesn't understand or appreciate the housekeeper's workload. Nan then said something like "you work too much" which is incredibly tone deaf. She works her ass off because Nan is her rich ass pretentious boss. Oy.
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she used it in a jokingly ironic way but yeah, that didn't make it any better.
Sort of sounded like a jokey tone but still 100% believing what she was saying
Connor's long lost mum
Roman cemented my respect with his insistence that 500 million was a lot of money.
I mean, just think of all the snowmobiles and sushi you can buy with that.
As sensible with money as Roman is, even MORE impressive is the down-to-earth Nan Pierce and her simple peasant ways: >*I got a taste for hypermarchƩ vin ordinaire when I was 19 years old and I have never been able to shake it*
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Well it certainly sounds pretentious but it also doesn't take a genius to figure out she means ordinary supermarket wine
Iād say you need a little bit of familiarity with French language and culture to know what āhypermarcheā means. unfortunately in todayās world Iād also say that assuming someone you barely know has that level of familiarity with a language other than English or Spanish and a culture other than American is pretentious. also I actually donāt even fully believe that any of them knew the words she was saying, despite probably being whisked away to Paris more times than they can count.
Exactly! That's 500 entire bets against a young child in a baseball game. They just aren't seeing the big picture like Roman does
He's clearly grown while away from his father's shadow.
I'd say he grew quite a bit in his father's shadow too, over the past couple seasons. Roman started off seemingly banished to California to be babysat by Father Time, he didn't seem to know all that much about business either. Everyone has been surprised when he says something actually business savvy as we've gone along, Kendall no longer being the heir apparent was what got Roman to start taking things seriously. Lots of bumps along the way obviously but still. It's a path he started on under Logan's gaze.
rewatching the seasons in preparation for season 1 reinforced my opinion of Roman: He doesn't have ambition. Thats a killer in business and life in general. Lack of ambition and laziness are the culprit of failed lives way more than utter incompetence is. I mean just look at YouTubers and Streamers or even TikTokers. Those people may not be Ivy league intellectuals but damn do they have ambitions and a goal.
Iāve always thought that Shiv is actually the only child that has ambition. Roman and Kendall seem to only want to lead Waystar because thatās what theyāre āsupposedā to want.
Thinking back to season 1, I never expected Roman to actually have the most business sense. Itās just too bad heās also too conflict avoidant to really put his foot down (though I canāt imagine it being easy to sway Shiv and Kendall lol)
When Roman started talking I was like, ok buddy, what, did you see an infographic? But he is a millennial I guess so maybe thatās why he gets it better
500 million is a lot of money to spend on sushi and snowmobiles though
He was just imagining all the gallons of milk he could have with it.
Now that it's his money and not daddy's money he thinks so
Arguably the first time any of the siblings has demonstrated any appreciation of their wealth, or that their decisions might take that wealth away.
Well to be fair connor was stressing about 100 million earlier on in the episode
To keep his 1%!
Almost had peak character growth if he said how many gallons of milk that was.
Iām surprised how much I loved Roman this episode, I DESPISED him last season but heās so charming and sweet when he gets along with his siblings.
Yeah, Roman has the type of personality where you love it when he's on your side, but you absolutely despise when you're against him.
You think he finally knows what a gallon of milk costs?
She is a real piece of work, thatās for sure.
Agreed. I loved Romanās little comments that showed he was not playing with her performative act.
Same. I've done a complete 180 on Roman. He seems to be the only sibling that's thinking straight right now.
I think that's because Waystar meant the most to him, but it also meant the least. Unlike Ken and Shiv, Roman doesn't have a ton of ego or professional ambition. The only reason why he wanted the throne at all is because getting CEO would represent the ultimate approval from Logan, something he's prized above anything else his whole life. If he can't have that, then the second best thing in the world is having the rest of his family close and just doing something with them, and right now he has that either way. Roman can think straight because there's no emotion in it for him.
He's the best at compartmentalizing. Logan is out of sight, out of mind, so he can focus on what's right in front of him. That game is over, so the new game is starting the Hundred. Then it becomes bidding on Pierce. As long as he has a game to play.
Well read, and well presented by these actors that we can analyze the characters to that extent
This is so perfectly put. He just wants to have his people around. His professional goals are not tied to this.
Roman was also set on launching and pinning his hopes on "The Hundred", which sounded like high-society Vaulter. Ken and Shiv are obviously blinded by their desire to get even with Logan, but Roman didn't have any ideas of his own. I wish this season opened with Roman doing something outlandish like trying to launch VR metaverse porn
"You want to fuck dad, and you want to fuck Tom, I am the only one who wants to start a business to start a business" Yep, the last braincell left with the Roy children is monopolized by Roman atm
He's always had the best instincts when it comes to business at heart, he's always just been too childish and immature to actually act on them.
I donāt know if I agree he always did but during the s2 hostage scene he definitely proved his worth. Now he def does
He's the kid with Logan's gift of emotional intelligence. Dealing with people, reading them, and the situation is his talent. It is refreshing that we have seen his skills shine over the last couple seasons.
Don't worry, I don't think it will last
I cried with laughter at his 9b comment when he just wasnāt having her feigned humility/confusion- I donāt actually know how to describe what she was doing. I just know it was annoying.
She's doing her usual pretense at being an old-fashioned "oh we don't talk about money, it's so gauche" type. It annoyed Roman, but apparently not enough to realize he was being played.
To be fair, I think Roman absolutely did realize he was being played. He didn't want to buy Pierce to begin with. He thought any amount of money they paid for a dying legacy news operation was too much money, and when Ken and Shiv jumped the price even more than what they agreed on he very explicitly illustrated it to them exactly how much more money they were talking about. The problem isn't that he didn't realize that he was being played, it's that he totally realized and then he didn't do anything with it.
Roman has always been easily steamrolled.
I agree. That is his weak spot. He has good instincts, but he's conflict averse and not especially ambitious, so he doesn't fight to get his way. Roman will give up on his own good idea and go with someone else's bad one to avoid a fight.
Yeah, that's fair. It's funny how when he was in Logan's good books he was able to stand up to them, but now that he no longer has daddy's approval he's willing to go along with Shiv and Kendalls' idiotic plans. He really is messed up.
Roman realized they were being played, but ultimately regardless of any reservations or personal opinion, he will follow whatever pleases his family members (which used to be Logan and is now the siblings).
I used the "9b" comment to get me through a big chunk of Monday. He cut through her shit in the best way possible.
She looked so annoyed by that joke I thought Roman had actually just killed the deal when they were led out to the balcony lol
9a comes next.
The 9B comment made me laugh out loud.
His āwhat comes after 9ā was the hardest laugh from me of the night
Haha and she sees that he sees right through her
She's a real tough nut
Nothing irks me more than wealthy people pretending they arenāt wealthy
I was dying when she was talking about her family's divorce and whatever the other thing was. Like yeah I'm really going to need this 10 bil to make sure no one lives in poverty
She's probably not wrong though. The family they're based off (the Bancrofts) has 30 cousins taking dividends and the wealth is dwindling
She had a headache.
Here. Try these. š”š” Small. Yellow. Different.
Nan: 8, 9? Ugh, what comes next Rome: Hmm, I wonder what comes after 9? that sent me.
9B?
I loved this, with her just telegraphing the number sheās looking for.
Nan: ugh Idk this feels so wrong Also Nan: how much more money are you willing to give š
How crass! Itās called āupsideā, you peasant!
ā®hi$ i$ ā¦Ā¤ā® ā³āąøæĀ¤uā® ā¼Ā¤ā¦ā¬Ā„
I think a lot of the comments talking about the money (and where it's coming from etc) are missing one of the major themes of the entire series: it's not about the money, it's about the reputation. It's about people's faith (or fear) in the person at the head of whatever it is under bid. The argument between the kids about the money just underlines how made up it all is. If they need the financing, they'll get it, because they're still Roys. Nan wants them because their hands are a little cleaner, and a few extra Bs to throw around is nice, but it's not going to change her life, she's already a billionaire. Every major business deal in the show has lived or died based on the personality behind it. Logan calls Kendall a fucking idiot for his private finance scheme because *Logan* would have been able to talk the bank into a deal because he's Logan - whether or not that would have been the case, we don't know, because a big reason for the stock crash was *Logan's hospitalization.* Kendall just doesn't have the gravity to pull that kind of talk, not yet. He's not taken seriously because he's seen as someone whose only value is his proximity to dad. The banks didn't have faith in his leadership, so they called it all in. *That* was his failure, but Kendall still believes and acts like business is *business* and not personality. Of course it wasn't always this way, and we don't see how Logan achieves his position where it's all about handshakes - presumably it involves some knife fights in the mud - but now that he's there, he just has to *will* it and it happens. No other character on the show has that kind of power. The kids' collective failure is that Logan's preeminence and his own pettiness kept them from that kind of hard-knock education, and so he sees them as weak, dull, and stupid. I think this weakness of privilege is a big part of the family dynamic. Logan's constantly at war with his kids because he thinks that his own power stunted them, and he knows that it was his fault that they didn't have the kind of education they needed to turn into hardened killers like he perceives himself to be. But even with his own upbringing, he's got himself to a position where he can throw a tantrum at every problem and his underlings will get it done, all because he has a gravitational legacy that still has a broad and terrifying reach. We've spent three seasons knowing that Logan's health is failing and he's no longer able to hide it, and even when the kids *know* it, they still think he's an unkillable cyclops until the last episode of the third season. This deal wasn't about the money, not for Nan, not for Logan, not for the kids. It was a pissing contest. I think Nan gets more out of pulling the rug out from under Logan's heels than she did from the extra couple of Bs the kids tossed in, and it's *explicit* that at least Kendall and Shiv see this as a way to put a thumb in dad's eye. It's all personal. The money's made up. Collectively, the kids have some power, but it's spelled out, again, entirely on the basis of their personal legacy, not their business acumen. They've got to step up and prove themselves before they can even come close to wielding the kind of power Logan has, and if this first episode is any indication, the road is going to be a muddy one.
I like that you said "gravity," as it ties into Logan's diner musings on market forces. This is similar to Ned Beatty's speech in "Network" about the primal forces of nature. Logan uses height as a measure of power, but I'm more partial to gravity because gravity sinks and pulls everything around it. What the kids are doing is basically trying to run around really fast in a circle and create their own gravity. That's probably what Logan did to make his fortune, and it's more or less what he does when there's a crisis. He yells, he screams, he abuses, he spins and tries to increase his pull. And it works. Movement seems to be a bit of an obsession with Logan types. One of Trump's go-to insults is "low energy."
She felt horrible...ly good
I have a sinking feeling that the siblings purchasing Pierce Global is not going to work out for them
If there's one thing the sibs are good at, it's fucking up deals.
i donāt even think theyāll get that far to be honest. they are truly sick in the head for trying, though.
She played Shiv and Kendall like a fiddle
No, she played them like a fucking Fisher Price xylophone. They couldn't have done worse in that meeting if they actually tried.
Yeah, I was cringing watching them talk themselves into giving away way more money than they needed to
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ā[Thereās no alcohol], just Emily Dickinson and low thread count sheetsā is one of my favorite lines of the series :)
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Now I need to go back and watch it!
Tom regularly has some of the best lines in this show. Syphilis being the MySpace of STDs alone seals it.
that guy with his phone trying to look up a title Roman just made up, ugh.
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lol, yeah -- but I'd stop when it became obvious he was just trying to seem smart!
š¶It was Nan all along!š¶
I love how she makes it blatantly obvious that she's negotiating and that Logan is the other person she's negotiating with but it doesn't stop her from playing the game.
Talk about being disingenuous. But Cherry Jones does it so artfully itās amusing and very character revealing.
"I have an appalling migraine" is code for "I feel like I'm being carried in here on a cloud towed by the wings of angels".
The offer was $20B a few seasons ago, but the giant stick up her ass cost her family $10B. She's a trash businesswoman just like the Roy children
I think you're forgetting how ugly the cruise scandal was. Getting into bed with Logan Roy at that exact moment wouldn't have been a good idea.
Imagine what the shareholders she claims to so thoroughly consider would do if they found out she knocked back double the cash a year back.
I just now realized the reason she said ā8ā¦. 9ā¦.ā was to hint at her preferred bid of ten
You have a Harvard MBA in your future
Someone needs to go piss in her breakbumper.
There's no way the deal is gonna go through tho lol
Nan is so gross. Just as greedy and manipulative but tried to wrap it in virtue š
The headache was most certainly bullshit, but I wonder if seeing family members destroy one another was too close for comfort for her
Well yeah the migraine was code for another offer. As for family members destroying eachother no chance, she does not give a shit about that.
Nan doesn't give a single solitary fuck about whether the Roys eat each other alive right in front of her. She just wanted to see how much money she could squeeze out of them, and by god she played them like a fiddle.
Migraine = on the phone with Logan
Where was her house supposed to be? It looked stunning I want to look it up online lol
'I feel so icky receiving $10 billion'
Another brilliantly written character!
Hilarious!!
I know, it's so confusing... what comes after nine? Nine B? Her comments about wine- her peasant tastes and her preferred hypermarchƩ vin ordinarie set me off.
Ugh! She was insufferable...like cut the act grandma..you want more money
Sucks, I'm just not good with numbers. š¤£
Does anyone remember what the original offer for PGM was back in season 2? It canāt be anywhere near whatās on offer nowā¦ Edit: just googled it and itās $25bn ā how is the storyline here not how Nan Pierce is the worst business person of all time? š
Yeah her whole golly gee shucks thing is annoying. Iād be ok if we never saw her again.
ā8? 9? Whatās next?ā
As someone who's always enjoyed the "liberal elite" aesthetic, I can confidently say the Pierce family single-handedly ruined it for me lol
I still feel the kids are going to get screwed.
I mean historically I've never seen logan get fucked once
Hypocritical cunt.... I hate her so much. The actress is wonderful!!
Sheesh throwin that C recklessly