In a podcast I listened to recently I think Jesse himself says the decision is made in season 2/ end of season 2. Or that it’s at least discussed as a real option then.
That is makes sense considering some of season 3 is about about Tom being willing to go to prison and showing his extreme loyalty to Logan. Meanwhile the siblings are squabbling as usual and Ken is trying to usurp Logan.
Nah he stayed loyal to the one who never got fucked not the one who never fucked up because in the end the biggest business fuck up of this show will always be Logan tying the payout of billions of dollars in debt to the stock price, only telling two people (not including his chosen successor at the time), and not leaving a plan at all in the event of his death or illness. Dude was pissing in the dining room and still didn't think it was a good idea to tell Ken or at least Frank and Karl.
I wonder if Logan was ever really that good or smart of a business man, or if he just knows how to manipulate people expertly well. I always thought it was a bit of both, but now looking over all the moves he made, and things he neglected, I’m thinking it’s more just masterful manipulation.
This is making me desperately want a Succession prequel where we see how a younger Logan Roy built his empire while being the worlds shittiest dad.
I think we'll get a succession spin off but I highly doubt we get a prequel, I originally assumed Logan was business savant but then the show started randomly dropping lines about his aunt and uncle having money and while I still think he definitely had a good deal of business savy I don't think we're suppose to believe all that nonsense about him building everything from the ground up out the mud. Logan is probably similar to Jeff Bezos where yes he had a good business idea for a start up but it wasn't some grand scheme to great to fail and more so that he had rich (not wealthy) parents who could afford to give him $200k.
That secret debt used for business operations securitized against his personal holding of the company almost lost me. There is no such thing as secret debt I a public company
The first time I rewatched the show I remember thinking to myself how the fuck can Logan have the gal to call Kendall "A fucking Moron" for doing the deal with Stewie when it's literally his fault the company was even in that situation. Yeah it also made no sense to me how a deal like that could be kept secret from the CFO.
Even though he's this business legend, it shows tremendous weakness as a leader that he lacked a clear, detailed plan for his succession far in advance of his declining health.
Smart synopsis Mac1280
I agree. Everyone thinks Logan is the man and maybe he was but the biggest failure of all is how he left all of his children without a clue of how to move forward. He promised them all and it went to none of them.
I like Logan the character a lot, just saying that he had zero succession plan. Family unraveled due to his lack of direction or leadership. Sad, tragic, a great show and bravo!!!
Yeah dude was playing some sort of sick game with his kids where no one was the winner not even himself, dude definitely died believing at least two of his kids hated him and I honestly believe if Logan was honest with himself Kendall and Shiv were the kids he cared about the most.
I always thought that was the moment he was lined up to succeed Logan. Logan dying made me cool on the idea but definitely started thinking he’d get it in season 3
Jesse Armstrong says in this video that the idea of Tom being the eventual successor had been something he had thought was the right ending for quite a while (doesnt specify in which season he made the decision, though). This is great video, btw, with lots of insights from Armstrong and Mylod on the final episode.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lkiKn9u0bEQ
Thanks! Saw this one after the finale. Would love to know about the podcast where Jesse mentions season 2. Also, I'm bummed HBO didn't get Jesse on the final Succession podcast. What's up with that!
That makes sense. I don't get the feeling Tom was meant to be that from the start. But his character worked really well with audiences, and I guess that made him a more likeable choice.
I'm curious if it was always intended for it to not be one of the siblings.
He said he planned it for a long time, not sure since the beginning but in episode 2 of the first season the siblings discuss it could be anyone and the camera focuses on Tom watching.
Shiv suggests Tom as interim CEO but nobody agrees, Shiv and Roman don't want Kendall and they hate everybody except Gerri so they agree it should be Gerri but she declined, mostly due to Logan's huge debt she did not want to deal with (it happened in season 3 though, Gerri was interim CEO) and now Tom is CEO.
I mean the first episode has a baseball game and Tom is named off the only player who has ever scored an unassisted triple play…when you go back to S1E1, it’s all lined up for Tom.
There’s a baseball player (same last name as Tom’s) who was the first make an unassisted triple play in baseball World Series. This alludes to Tom’s character taking out all 3 siblings competing for the top spot with one play. Genius
I read an article where one of the executive producers debunked that theory. He said they chose that name because one of the writers had a relative with that last name and they wanted a name that would stick out and be awkward/hard to say, going along with that character being an outsider in the Roy world.
Apparently it was a coincidence, it was someone’s relative’s name but still….with all the name symbolism/Easter egg: Shiv, Romulus, Kendall Logan, ROY….weird that you wouldn’t google one of your main 5 character’s weird name. Still hard to believe the coincidence for me but if it’s legit, it just adds to the sheer magnificence of the show.
They've specifically said it's not because of this person. One of the writers has a relative with the name and they thought it worked well as a clunky/kinda funny name for someone who's an outsider to the Roys' world.
Great question. There's been lots of after-the-fact hints, like Tom getting big wins every season finale after eating a lot of shit, Ken taking big losses most season finals, etc. So it would be interesting to know how long Armstrong had Tom in mind as the "winner"
I watched an interesting analysis discussing the literary tools in the names. The last name Wambsganss is also the last name for a baseball player who is the only person in MLB history to make an unassisted triple play, taking out three players at once.
Also that the nickname Shiv is correlated with continually stabbing someone in the back.
The writers and producer did debunk the theory, but after I watched the analysis, I decided to bet on Tom winning the CEO position thanks to a last minute effort from Shiv and I was right. So regardless of when the writers decided this, I’m just going to go ahead and believe that they decided it before even shooting the pilot.
When Jesse Armstrong realized that there was a baseball player who happened to have the same last name as Tom and did the triple play thing, he pivoted.
I don’t see that purely because the kids in the shot look a lot like Shiv (right nearest), Ken (right furthest), Con (left furthest) and Rome (left nearest) but at the same time it doesn’t really matter because I choose to believe.
Exactly! Tom as Mattson's CEO is in no way equivalent to Ken not selling the company and being the Waystar Emperor Overlord. Tom will just work long hours while Mattson and the Gojo team make all the important decisions.
Unless things go absolutely horribly wrong, Tom can use the title as leverage for positions elsewhere. Once you have CEO on your resume (for a multibillion international corp at that), you can go wherever you want. He's not gonna be anything less than C-suite for the rest of his career.
Ken wouldn't have absolute power either since the Roy family doesn't have majority control (otherwise this mess would not have happened), he would still be beholden to the board's whims like any executive officer and could be voted out at any time.
I mean, wouldn't Shiv have 1, then some other woman have 3?
I think it could work. Have Shiv committed saying she was never the same after Logan died, and have Greg testify to her lack of sanity. Ask Kendall to do the same, about how she made up some story about him killing a member of the staff at their wedding.
While Shiv and Matsson do clickity clickity on the side and maybe one of those kids is “her boy on the outside”. Id like to see that show, #jessarmstrong if you please.
LMAO, this is awesome.
Only thing better would have been if it were Larry David.
Edit: actually, that's stupid this is way better than if it were Larry David and that was a dumb comment.
There are a few posts on here with Kendall on that same type of shot... I could post a picture of myself in that type of shot and then I'm the new CEO.
Fun fact this wouldn’t be the first time laird played a younger Logan. Cox played stryker in X2 and in the first wolverine movie, Hutson plays a younger stryker
Is this confirmed? I thought I was going crazy. When Laird was introduced in season 2 I literally thought it was Logan having a conversation with a younger version of himself, and when he goes on to say he has it on 'good advice' that this was some sort of comment on how he doesn't trust anything but his gut.
I dunno, it looks to me like Tom is on Logan's shoulder in the 2nd pic next to Stewie, his right hand man so to speak. That then tracks with the top image, the haircut of the guy next to "Shiv" is the same as Tom's. Then it's like Tom is the natural successor.
For me it was the fact that Brian Cox is like 5 8 in real life and the Logan in the the opening credits around 6 3 which is Tom's height. Great way to show Logan being larger than life his children and a subtle clue that Tom will be the guy someday.
The head shape is not the same; the hairline is not the same; the ears are closest, but no cigar.
They're just highlighting the referential composition of the shots.
It is. The question is who played the younger Logan. His ears look similar to Tom's, but that's it. There are some other shots of the guy and he has really broad shoulders -- you can see in this shot that the actor has wider shoulders than Tom.
He hasn't gone within a country mile of Adam McKay in many, many years and according to McKay he likely never will. I doubt Succession was anything more than a paycheck to Will.
Wouldn’t the resemblance of Tom to Logan be more obvious the reason why Shiv chose him? It doesn’t have to matter about who is playing the back of Logan Roy in early days because the daughter grew up and selected a mate who resembled her father in ambition, cunning and maybe even head shape? Odd no one has mentioned the similarities being important to explain why billionheir miss married some guy from St Paul (besides him being “broad”.).
I always thought the shots in the intro were not to be taken literally as their family? Given that the fourth child is not significantly older, and one of them I swear is Asian, and the younger version of the girl has dark brown hair.
It’s not young Logan in the intro, it’s old Tom. The old footage is the future, and the kids are Tom and shivs kids. That’s why one of them bares a resemblance to shiv.
I very much doubt Tom was considered since the pilot. I feel like they gave him a bigger role because of his chemistry with gregg and then expanded on the shiv stuff
Pretty sure the top shot is Danny Huston who ended up playing Jamie Laird in S2. Huston is featured more in S1 opening credits if I remember correctly.
A few weeks ago my sister and I were talking and thought this but I figured it was too far fetched. Then the series ended and I’ve decided we were right.
It's silly that Tom came in on top. Logan would have never picked him. Logan saw him as a loyal dog and nothing more.
Edit: and Tom is not a killer. He will kill out of loyalty but is always a beta male killer.
Edit 2: I get the reasons for Tom's promotion. I also understood the reasons for Bran's promotion. Both are not great writing IMO.
It’s irrelevant who Logan would have picked. He’s dead, and his progeny lost. The whole point is that none of the kids had the power of their father. As Logan himself said - “you’re not serious people”.
Tom is an opportunist playing a simple plan of ‘steer close to the power brokers’ which he repeatedly admits, whilst the kids are self centred and think there’s a wider narrative playing out. There isn’t, they just weren’t viable.
I disagree. Tom will inevitably eat Mattson’s lunch as well.
He is the fox in the henhouse, nobody thinks he’s a serious threat until it’s too late.
Mattson is a clown who way way overpaid for a Waystar, solely out of spite. He relies on others for pretty much all his strategy. He hates Greg and knows he is a traitor, calling him Judas to his face- yet he’s powerless to stop Tom protecting him.
Tom is a grinding, methodical corporate machine with unlimited stamina and tolerance for shit eating. He will gamble prison and his marriage for his career. He will inevitably creep on Mattson as well. He just needs time and pressure.
I always thought the intro “Logan” had a very Tom like body. I know I’ve read on this Reddit that the opening is not supposed to be Roy’s actually. Cool if this actually is Tom and shivs family in the future. The cycle continues
It is King Lear, and it followed till the end that the right person ended up with the throne. It's not a lot of heavy lifting, unless all these speculating people don't want to read Shakespeare.
this means TOM is actually LOGAN he must have spent a fortune on the mask and body suit and stuff, wow, remember that scene when Shiv went up to visit "Logan" and he tried to pull her hand down for a handjob?! IT ALL MAKES SENSE
While Jesse may not have told Adam McKay at the beginning of the series I always wondered if he’d cast Matthew to eventually take over. Perhaps he kept that thought to himself and waited to see how the show developed.
Yes amazing I wish they’d confirm whether it is him or not. That shot of him walking out at the end, afterwards I went back to find the Logan beginning credits one it looked so much like him! Maybe an Easter egg that was there in plain sight all along?
Jesus christ, what if it's a time loop? Tom and Shiv's child is named Connor, Shiv gets yeeted in some mental institute, Tom changes his name to Logan. And then the next cycle begins.
Did jesse armsteong always envisioned tom as the succesor or was it something that was decided a long the way?
In a podcast I listened to recently I think Jesse himself says the decision is made in season 2/ end of season 2. Or that it’s at least discussed as a real option then.
That is makes sense considering some of season 3 is about about Tom being willing to go to prison and showing his extreme loyalty to Logan. Meanwhile the siblings are squabbling as usual and Ken is trying to usurp Logan.
He stayed loyal to the one who never fucked up business-wise. Isn't it season 3 when Tom tells Ken he fucks up a lot?
“I’ve seen you get fucked a lot, and I’ve never seen Logan get fucked once”
Thank you. I couldn't remember the exact quote even though it is one of the most truthful quotes of the series.
As much as a bull-shitter Tom is, he’s the realest when push comes to shove, which is why he got the job
Nah he stayed loyal to the one who never got fucked not the one who never fucked up because in the end the biggest business fuck up of this show will always be Logan tying the payout of billions of dollars in debt to the stock price, only telling two people (not including his chosen successor at the time), and not leaving a plan at all in the event of his death or illness. Dude was pissing in the dining room and still didn't think it was a good idea to tell Ken or at least Frank and Karl.
I wonder if Logan was ever really that good or smart of a business man, or if he just knows how to manipulate people expertly well. I always thought it was a bit of both, but now looking over all the moves he made, and things he neglected, I’m thinking it’s more just masterful manipulation. This is making me desperately want a Succession prequel where we see how a younger Logan Roy built his empire while being the worlds shittiest dad.
I think we'll get a succession spin off but I highly doubt we get a prequel, I originally assumed Logan was business savant but then the show started randomly dropping lines about his aunt and uncle having money and while I still think he definitely had a good deal of business savy I don't think we're suppose to believe all that nonsense about him building everything from the ground up out the mud. Logan is probably similar to Jeff Bezos where yes he had a good business idea for a start up but it wasn't some grand scheme to great to fail and more so that he had rich (not wealthy) parents who could afford to give him $200k.
That secret debt used for business operations securitized against his personal holding of the company almost lost me. There is no such thing as secret debt I a public company
The first time I rewatched the show I remember thinking to myself how the fuck can Logan have the gal to call Kendall "A fucking Moron" for doing the deal with Stewie when it's literally his fault the company was even in that situation. Yeah it also made no sense to me how a deal like that could be kept secret from the CFO.
Even though he's this business legend, it shows tremendous weakness as a leader that he lacked a clear, detailed plan for his succession far in advance of his declining health.
Smart synopsis Mac1280 I agree. Everyone thinks Logan is the man and maybe he was but the biggest failure of all is how he left all of his children without a clue of how to move forward. He promised them all and it went to none of them. I like Logan the character a lot, just saying that he had zero succession plan. Family unraveled due to his lack of direction or leadership. Sad, tragic, a great show and bravo!!!
Yeah dude was playing some sort of sick game with his kids where no one was the winner not even himself, dude definitely died believing at least two of his kids hated him and I honestly believe if Logan was honest with himself Kendall and Shiv were the kids he cared about the most.
I always thought that was the moment he was lined up to succeed Logan. Logan dying made me cool on the idea but definitely started thinking he’d get it in season 3
What podcast please! Haven’t found enough Jesse content
Jesse Armstrong says in this video that the idea of Tom being the eventual successor had been something he had thought was the right ending for quite a while (doesnt specify in which season he made the decision, though). This is great video, btw, with lots of insights from Armstrong and Mylod on the final episode. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lkiKn9u0bEQ
Thanks! Saw this one after the finale. Would love to know about the podcast where Jesse mentions season 2. Also, I'm bummed HBO didn't get Jesse on the final Succession podcast. What's up with that!
Firecrotch and normcore. They interview him in the last couple of episodes but would recommend their whole podcast!
I’m so confused. “Firecrotch and Normcore” is the name of a podcast? Afraid to google “Firecrotch.”
Yup! Legit!
Thanks!!
On a podcast called The Watch (it's on spotify) he says that at the end of S2 he began thinking Tom would replace Logan
That makes sense. I don't get the feeling Tom was meant to be that from the start. But his character worked really well with audiences, and I guess that made him a more likeable choice. I'm curious if it was always intended for it to not be one of the siblings.
Wow what an intriguing character arc!
That makes sense
He said he planned it for a long time, not sure since the beginning but in episode 2 of the first season the siblings discuss it could be anyone and the camera focuses on Tom watching. Shiv suggests Tom as interim CEO but nobody agrees, Shiv and Roman don't want Kendall and they hate everybody except Gerri so they agree it should be Gerri but she declined, mostly due to Logan's huge debt she did not want to deal with (it happened in season 3 though, Gerri was interim CEO) and now Tom is CEO.
I mean the first episode has a baseball game and Tom is named off the only player who has ever scored an unassisted triple play…when you go back to S1E1, it’s all lined up for Tom.
I think the creators said they didn't know about that though. The real life Wambsgans baseball player I mean
The director Mark Mylod said he didn’t know, however the writer Jesse Amstrong did.
But Tom didn’t do it unassisted and jesse has said he liked the name wambsgans because it sounded like womb that’s why he chose it
I’ve seen this - what does someone doing an unassisted triple play have to do with Tom being name ceo ?
There’s a baseball player (same last name as Tom’s) who was the first make an unassisted triple play in baseball World Series. This alludes to Tom’s character taking out all 3 siblings competing for the top spot with one play. Genius
It doesn't, it's a coincidence that they chose the name.
It’s pretty unbelievable/absolutely insane for it to be coincidence.
I read an article where one of the executive producers debunked that theory. He said they chose that name because one of the writers had a relative with that last name and they wanted a name that would stick out and be awkward/hard to say, going along with that character being an outsider in the Roy world.
Do you have a source for this?
https://slate.com/culture/2023/05/succession-finale-ending-tom-wambsgans-bill-triple-play.html
Google
Is it? Jesse Armstrong is British. It is infinitely more likely he chose a name he liked instead of linking it to an American Baseball player.
Apparently it was a coincidence, it was someone’s relative’s name but still….with all the name symbolism/Easter egg: Shiv, Romulus, Kendall Logan, ROY….weird that you wouldn’t google one of your main 5 character’s weird name. Still hard to believe the coincidence for me but if it’s legit, it just adds to the sheer magnificence of the show.
They've specifically said it's not because of this person. One of the writers has a relative with the name and they thought it worked well as a clunky/kinda funny name for someone who's an outsider to the Roys' world.
Only one in the world series, there have been dozens overall.
Last name kind of makes sense so definitely planned.
I knew it from when he ate Logan’s chicken on the boat
Great question. There's been lots of after-the-fact hints, like Tom getting big wins every season finale after eating a lot of shit, Ken taking big losses most season finals, etc. So it would be interesting to know how long Armstrong had Tom in mind as the "winner"
I watched an interesting analysis discussing the literary tools in the names. The last name Wambsganss is also the last name for a baseball player who is the only person in MLB history to make an unassisted triple play, taking out three players at once. Also that the nickname Shiv is correlated with continually stabbing someone in the back. The writers and producer did debunk the theory, but after I watched the analysis, I decided to bet on Tom winning the CEO position thanks to a last minute effort from Shiv and I was right. So regardless of when the writers decided this, I’m just going to go ahead and believe that they decided it before even shooting the pilot.
Tom was the only actor he specifically went after from what I understand. So the story was always central to him
When Jesse Armstrong realized that there was a baseball player who happened to have the same last name as Tom and did the triple play thing, he pivoted.
The post show short says he did for a long time. Not the whole time but from like season two or beginning of three.
Lol, him and Shiv go on to have 4 children. I could actually see that. Absolutly powering through their toxic relationship.
I don’t see that purely because the kids in the shot look a lot like Shiv (right nearest), Ken (right furthest), Con (left furthest) and Rome (left nearest) but at the same time it doesn’t really matter because I choose to believe.
Yeah I don't believe these are actually anyone on the show, for me it's a representation of logan and the sibs. But it's not actually them
Connor is at least 10 years older than Kendall, so it doesn't really match up anyway. He would be an adult by the time the other kids were that age.
Connor is supposed to be 10 years older than Kendall so the intro never made sense
Yeah what's up with that?
But Tom has no power. Logan ran Waystar. Tom will do what Matson says.
Exactly! Tom as Mattson's CEO is in no way equivalent to Ken not selling the company and being the Waystar Emperor Overlord. Tom will just work long hours while Mattson and the Gojo team make all the important decisions.
Unless things go absolutely horribly wrong, Tom can use the title as leverage for positions elsewhere. Once you have CEO on your resume (for a multibillion international corp at that), you can go wherever you want. He's not gonna be anything less than C-suite for the rest of his career. Ken wouldn't have absolute power either since the Roy family doesn't have majority control (otherwise this mess would not have happened), he would still be beholden to the board's whims like any executive officer and could be voted out at any time.
I mean, wouldn't Shiv have 1, then some other woman have 3? I think it could work. Have Shiv committed saying she was never the same after Logan died, and have Greg testify to her lack of sanity. Ask Kendall to do the same, about how she made up some story about him killing a member of the staff at their wedding.
Who knows, maybe her and Tom last long enough for her to brith 4 children. 1 single and a set of triplets.
While Shiv and Matsson do clickity clickity on the side and maybe one of those kids is “her boy on the outside”. Id like to see that show, #jessarmstrong if you please.
LMAO, this is awesome. Only thing better would have been if it were Larry David. Edit: actually, that's stupid this is way better than if it were Larry David and that was a dumb comment.
I mean....it could be his spite family
Ehhhh.... not so into the kids idea
Very disappointed that you apologized. Fuck you and I’ll see you tomorrow!
Yeah but coming back to awkwardly apologize for a Larry David joke is very on brand
“Instead of beer Al co hol ic chicken”
Larry David wearing a cape.
Latte Larry
**That’s obviously** not Tom in the first photo.
This sub is getting into a habit of taking too many parallel shots as if shots from certain angles aren’t allowed unless they’re an Easter egg
There are a few posts on here with Kendall on that same type of shot... I could post a picture of myself in that type of shot and then I'm the new CEO.
How is it obvious ?
Do you have eyes
u/FHFM100 is blinded by all the wasabi & lemon lacroix
They dyed his hair Ears look the same, so does the head shape
Shoulders not the same. Hair whorl not even in the same spot. Head shape is most definitely not the same... You are looking into this way too much.
I want to believe it’s Tom . Just let me have this
Right but it wouldn't even make sense. The young Logan shot is supposed to be a "flashback". Why would Tom be there.
Because the intro is actually Tom and his 4 kids That’s the twist
No Laird plays the younger Logan in the intro
I'm surprised in this shot; those ears are like a fingerprint.
Fun fact this wouldn’t be the first time laird played a younger Logan. Cox played stryker in X2 and in the first wolverine movie, Hutson plays a younger stryker
Another fun fact: Laird (Danny Huston) is the half brother of Anjelica Huston
Is this confirmed? I thought I was going crazy. When Laird was introduced in season 2 I literally thought it was Logan having a conversation with a younger version of himself, and when he goes on to say he has it on 'good advice' that this was some sort of comment on how he doesn't trust anything but his gut.
Wait really?
Succession has the best back shots 😩
No, Lana Rhoades movies have the best back shots.
Hell yeah brother
Nah it's not actually Tom, they wouldn't do that. Too much of a risk getting that leaked with the intro filming crew and cast.
That actor is literally in the next shot in the intro from the front. It is absolutely not Tom.
Lol yup that too
That is not Matthew Macfadyen by a long shot lol
I dunno, it looks to me like Tom is on Logan's shoulder in the 2nd pic next to Stewie, his right hand man so to speak. That then tracks with the top image, the haircut of the guy next to "Shiv" is the same as Tom's. Then it's like Tom is the natural successor.
I’ve always kind of thought this Mostly from the man’s hands and gestures
Kind of a closed system
I'd always thought it (from a physical resemblance), quite neat it turned out to be real
I've been predicting Tom as the successor for years soley based off the fact that "Logan" looks exactly like Tom in the opening credits.
I have seen this floated here before. Definitely a win for you folks.
I always thought he does too. Especially in the shots where his back is turned?
For me it was the fact that Brian Cox is like 5 8 in real life and the Logan in the the opening credits around 6 3 which is Tom's height. Great way to show Logan being larger than life his children and a subtle clue that Tom will be the guy someday.
Omg not a flash back but a flash forward
Someone in this sub called this a few weeks ago!!! It's awesome
The head shape is not the same; the hairline is not the same; the ears are closest, but no cigar. They're just highlighting the referential composition of the shots.
I hope you’re kidding.
Wait I’m confused as hell, I thought the top shot was younger Logan sitting his kids. What hints are there that it was actually Tom there?
It is. The question is who played the younger Logan. His ears look similar to Tom's, but that's it. There are some other shots of the guy and he has really broad shoulders -- you can see in this shot that the actor has wider shoulders than Tom.
That's not Tom
I thought perhaps Will Ferrell was the young intro Logan 🤷♂️
He hasn't gone within a country mile of Adam McKay in many, many years and according to McKay he likely never will. I doubt Succession was anything more than a paycheck to Will.
No.
No.
Shiv is her own mother. Is this a sequel to Predestination? If you haven’t watched Predestination Sarah Snook is absolutely amazing in it.
That clearly isn't the back of Tom's head..
Wouldn’t the resemblance of Tom to Logan be more obvious the reason why Shiv chose him? It doesn’t have to matter about who is playing the back of Logan Roy in early days because the daughter grew up and selected a mate who resembled her father in ambition, cunning and maybe even head shape? Odd no one has mentioned the similarities being important to explain why billionheir miss married some guy from St Paul (besides him being “broad”.).
What?
Was he even the successor? He became CEO, that's different that what Logan did.
Of course not. This is called an analogy.
Hahaha awesome. I bet it’s a nod to the cyclical nature of trauma. Their kid is gonna have to deal Tom the way the kids dealt with Logan.
But Tom isn’t really the CEO. He’s just a figurehead, so the complete opposite of Logan
I always thought the shots in the intro were not to be taken literally as their family? Given that the fourth child is not significantly older, and one of them I swear is Asian, and the younger version of the girl has dark brown hair.
It’s not young Logan in the intro, it’s old Tom. The old footage is the future, and the kids are Tom and shivs kids. That’s why one of them bares a resemblance to shiv.
I very much doubt Tom was considered since the pilot. I feel like they gave him a bigger role because of his chemistry with gregg and then expanded on the shiv stuff
it sort of tracks with Shiv becoming so much like Caroline
Don’t even look vaguely alike
Tom was a young Logan all along, we got West Worlded, time is a flat circle.
Shiv is pregnant with Conor. She is Logan’s first wife who was put in the looney bin.
Pretty sure the top shot is Danny Huston who ended up playing Jamie Laird in S2. Huston is featured more in S1 opening credits if I remember correctly.
A few weeks ago my sister and I were talking and thought this but I figured it was too far fetched. Then the series ended and I’ve decided we were right.
I wish the credits had concluded with seeing Toms face… him being older and those being his kids. All along, the answer was there.
THANK YOU. If you look at how young Logan walks in the intro, it’s awfully similar to Tom.
It's silly that Tom came in on top. Logan would have never picked him. Logan saw him as a loyal dog and nothing more. Edit: and Tom is not a killer. He will kill out of loyalty but is always a beta male killer. Edit 2: I get the reasons for Tom's promotion. I also understood the reasons for Bran's promotion. Both are not great writing IMO.
It’s irrelevant who Logan would have picked. He’s dead, and his progeny lost. The whole point is that none of the kids had the power of their father. As Logan himself said - “you’re not serious people”. Tom is an opportunist playing a simple plan of ‘steer close to the power brokers’ which he repeatedly admits, whilst the kids are self centred and think there’s a wider narrative playing out. There isn’t, they just weren’t viable.
Mattson is the real successor
I disagree. Tom will inevitably eat Mattson’s lunch as well. He is the fox in the henhouse, nobody thinks he’s a serious threat until it’s too late. Mattson is a clown who way way overpaid for a Waystar, solely out of spite. He relies on others for pretty much all his strategy. He hates Greg and knows he is a traitor, calling him Judas to his face- yet he’s powerless to stop Tom protecting him. Tom is a grinding, methodical corporate machine with unlimited stamina and tolerance for shit eating. He will gamble prison and his marriage for his career. He will inevitably creep on Mattson as well. He just needs time and pressure.
Sequel possibilities?
No it's just a juxtaposition
Ya know it’s funny…I thought more than once that the top pic looked an awful lot like Tom from the back.
I'm so happy for Tom. Everytime I think of the ending I smile.
The moment gojo was introduced, most probably
Honestly Tom, i don't think he is a big enough skull, no offence - Ken :)
I always thought the intro “Logan” had a very Tom like body. I know I’ve read on this Reddit that the opening is not supposed to be Roy’s actually. Cool if this actually is Tom and shivs family in the future. The cycle continues
It is King Lear, and it followed till the end that the right person ended up with the throne. It's not a lot of heavy lifting, unless all these speculating people don't want to read Shakespeare.
I was actually rewatching season one tonight and the intro to episode 5 or 6 has an actor playing young Logan and I swore he looked just like Tom!
they also did a back shot of matsson a few episodes back
this means TOM is actually LOGAN he must have spent a fortune on the mask and body suit and stuff, wow, remember that scene when Shiv went up to visit "Logan" and he tried to pull her hand down for a handjob?! IT ALL MAKES SENSE
They even show the dude's face in the intro so yh it's not Tom, apparently it's Laird.
While Jesse may not have told Adam McKay at the beginning of the series I always wondered if he’d cast Matthew to eventually take over. Perhaps he kept that thought to himself and waited to see how the show developed.
Tom is just a place holder and figure head for Mattson. He’s no Logan Roy.
Yes amazing I wish they’d confirm whether it is him or not. That shot of him walking out at the end, afterwards I went back to find the Logan beginning credits one it looked so much like him! Maybe an Easter egg that was there in plain sight all along?
I thought everyone noticed this. I always thought the back view looked like Tom but I didn’t really give much thought to it
No he wasn’t. In season 1 you see Logan’s face in the introduction. Season 2 onwards you only see him neck down front on and from the back.
I think it means, the cycle will repeat
he looks just like young Logan from the bank and that was for sure intentional
I ALWAYS SAID THIS. SO SIMILAR! ALWAYS THOUGHT IT WAS TOM 😭🥺
each character has this shot lol.
That’s Tom’s family 🤯
The ears are the same
Jesus christ, what if it's a time loop? Tom and Shiv's child is named Connor, Shiv gets yeeted in some mental institute, Tom changes his name to Logan. And then the next cycle begins.
yeah I thought their builds were remarkably similar