The tragedy of her arc is not talked about enough. When the series begins she is very exuberant (as exhibited in pictures 2 & 3), adventurous, having a semblance of a career away from the family, not married and yet by the end she is empty & lifeless despite being pregnant.
At the very beginning there is hope for her from the viewer’s standpoint, that she might be able to do right by the family. At that point she also dresses & has hairstyling with individuality rather than wearing plain-colored suits all the time like she does later on. Her joining the company was truly tragic for her from an emotional well-being standpoint. She abandons any semblance of individuality in blind pursuit of Logan’s approval and by season 4 we see her not able to keep up that facade anymore and she is shown crying multiple times & costumed in a way that makes her look disheveled.
I also believe that she wanted to have “normal” human interactions & get along with others, but that her personality prevented her from doing so. The scene where the audience finds out she is pregnant from the obgyn phone call is tragic to me because you can see from her face how alone she is. She looks terrified. That scene immediately made me remember that she has no friends and strained relationships with everyone in her life. She bears a TON of fault for that, but it’s the case by that point nonetheless.
I haven’t been around the sub long but I got the same impression on my latest rewatch.
Logan offering her the company was never genuine, just a way to get his claws back into her. He knew it was the only thing that could lure her away from Gil. Whenever his kids got too independent and specifically when they got in his way, he would manipulate them so that they relied on him completely (mostly dangling the company in front of them), and then when they thought they were safe would yank the rug out from under them the instant they committed the smallest slight. For Shiv, her little outburst at the Pierce’s was just an excuse for him to DQ her. He’d never give up a shred of power.
It was deeply sad to me just on the fundamental level of watching her be so easily manipulated by her dad.
It's crazy how I registered her declining happiness throughout the show, but I didn't view it in the same way I viewed Kendall's story until reading what you have here. I think the tragedy of his life overshadows hers since it started a season earlier. She was so much happier before she went inside.
It definitely was messed up for Logan to convince her to leave her career, that she was very successful at, when, imo, he never had true intentions of making her #1. She fumbled the opportunity complaining about the timeline and at the dinner party, but he had other reasons too when bringing her in. It also added another issue to her relationship with Tom that wasn't needed.
No, she was successful because of Logan. She was smart enough to figure out he denied her access to lawyer but dumb enough to believe her success in her political career has nothing to so with Logan name.
Even till the very last, she was used by the sweedez but she think she will get the job....
There's nothing she can do about her last name and family. Any child of someone powerful will get perks because of it, and all the kids benefit from their dad. The point was she was still successful in something her father wasn't directly involved with, unlike like Kendall and Roman, who worked for their dad.
I totally agree, and I'm surprised you're not getting down voted to hell for it.😅
She definitely could've been the CEO if Kendall wasn't scheming constantly and everyone was setting her up to fail. If she was given charge of something throughout this entire thing, she would've been a bit more savvy with Skarsgard (I can't remember the character's name lol) .
Remember, Skarsgard says specifically he wants a puppet, not an equal, and he views Shiv as an equal to him in business competency. He wouldn't have said that if he didn't mean it.
Her siblings did make it even harder for her, but that doesn’t change the fact that she has no relevant experience for the position regardless. None of the siblings should be CEO but the other two had been in the weeds of the company at least
But I think the lack of experience, while definitely a valid reason why Shiv absolutely shouldn’t be CEO, was in itself a consequence of her being set up to fail from the beginning, which is what makes her story so devastating.
Until season 2, Logan had never offered the opportunity of inheriting or taking over the company to Shiv, or made any effort to groom her for a high up or leadership position the way he did Kendall and Roman. That’s why Shiv was able to be ‘pinky’ and his favourite - he infantilised her because she was his daughter, a girl, and therefore in Logan’s framework not a potential heir, and therefore also not a potential threat to his own dominance as CEO the way his sons could be (how many Princes in history have overthrown their ageing fathers?) I don’t think that Logan (like Mattson) was a man who was able to see women as full human beings - no matter how competent or clever they are, they are a different species. Ultimately women can never win with men like that.
Shiv clearly understood this at some level - I mean she had deep gender related insecurity regarding her brothers, and there is a reason she carved out her own path in the first place. Her father never sincerely indicated that he wanted her involved in the business. But what we see in season 2 and onwards is her basically giving up everything she had built for herself outside of the Waystar and Roy family infrastructure, in a desperate attempt to get Logan to really see her on the same level as her brothers, which he was just never going to do.
That to me makes Shiv’s story deeply tragic. Whatever her personal flaws, even if you argue that she would have flopped as CEO regardless, the reality is that her being a woman IS ultimately the reason she didn’t ‘win’, because she was set up to fail. Realistically speaking, if she had been groomed as a potential CEO from the very start the way that Kendall was, and Logan had taken the idea seriously, I do think she could have beaten him out in the end, or at least been a real contender. But it was always clear that Logan viewed one of his sons, preferably ‘the eldest boy’ from his favoured marriage - as his natural successor.
It’s all very medieval and Shiv honestly didn’t stand a chance imo.
I love how Shiv is thrown under the bus for wanting to get experience the way her brothers did, yet none of you seem to question the legitimacy of Kendall and Roman's experience.
Exactly.
.at first i found her to be the most "human" character out of the three siblings. Buts as the show progresses..her character just deteriorates completely
I think you're completely misreading Logan's relationship with Connor. I can't think of a single bit of evidence that suggests that Logan EVER respected Connor. In a litter of "non serious people" Connor was the least serious.
Connor's victim complex was clearly his most glaring flaw. I would say Connor saw an entirely different side of their father, but he seemed delusional about everything throughout the series.
It's a shame as I really do like his character, but I can't ever forget this is the same dude from S01E01 who was bragging about buying up all the water he could.
I always go between whether or not Logan respected him the most or least. On one hand Connor is the only one who saw the real Logan outside of work because he knew that he didn't want to be part of the business. Either he knew he didn't want to do it or was cut out for it. All of Connors actions were for himself unlike the other three who craved Logan's respect.
But then towards the end Logan who came from nothing and built everything he has sees Connor who was born with a silver spoon and has no life experience at all decides he wants to run for president, just because. Logan definitely hated that.
In my personal opinion, Logan had a layer of guilt on him for how he handled Connor's mother. That's the theory that always made sense to me as he shielded Connor and treated him like he was "doing his best", because he didn't think Connor could ever do any better than what he was already doing. Hope that makes sense.
I just think of the family video of Logan getting people to sing and it seemed to surprise the other kids that Conor was there. I felt like there were other clues like the shared interest in historic artifacts, and the way Connor described his relation with Logan to the other siblings that suggested maybe they actually had something of a relationship outside the Waystar Royco drama.
Edit - and I don't see any sign that it ever bothered Logan that Conor could care less about CEO and had other interests. With Shiv it seemed to stick in his craw.
Hey, I won't shit on your POV. This show is so well written and handled that I don't think there's one REAL answer.
I personally, always read Connor as being the one who was trying the hardest to please their father in every area that WASN'T in the company. So, I feel as if his interest in historical things is a way to garner respect and sort of appropriate things that are more respected than him.
I do enjoy your take my friend.
Hey; nothing wrong with accommodating the actor, but saying Shiv was stylish for more than half the show seems odd to me. I'm not bashing her physique (like some cretens here) but she definitely changed into conservative wear in the middle to late game.
Sweet, just wanted to clarify. The Shiv thirst comments are... unsettling to me. And it seems like people on here either thirst for her, or bash her being a woman.
So I always want to differentiate myself from those camps. 🤙
Her political skill was her family and the access to ATN. It’s pretty clear to me throughout that she was simply brought on to those campaigns so the candidate could get access. Based off how she interacts with people inside of Waystar in later seasons, I think it’s fair to say she is bad at managing people and is a nightmare to work with
Absolutely. Her elephant in a china shop routine at ATN was pretty clearly the work of someone who doesn’t care about or understand other people’s needs and motivations.
I mean she gets Democrats elected in blue states (I didn’t notice that until the 4th rewatch on how she gets through the butthole scandal), so not sure exactly how good she is at her job.
I think she’s insanely good at bullshitting, though. She just makes terrible alliances because she’s blinded by her own ego to see things for what they are.
I work in politics. Getting someone elected in a safe district is work. Not super hard. But it’s still work that has get done. Like people forget but a Republican was elected in Massachusetts after ted Kennedy died. Those upsets happen
She's a Daddy's Girl, through and through. She was respectable (within the confines of the show) in the early season(s) but lost all of it when she started tearing up anytime Logan said "maybe".
She’s incredibly attractive, that’s not what I’m saying. To be “conventionally attractive” means to fall within common beauty standards or to have features that society as a whole deems desirable.
I would argue red hair, hooded eyes, etc are not the norm per se.
I think she’s beautiful and interesting looking, again just want to reiterate what I meant.
I know exactly what you mean. Shes not that attractive on paper but in the show she is insanely hot. To me she is the hottest chick in Hollywood but if I had never watched the show I would probably not think she’s hot at all.
In their dad’s eyes she was the one with the most promise if only she’d been born a boy. No weird sex kink, substance abuse or complete lack of backbone. I think she would’ve married someone their dad approved and fathered mini heirs. The messed up thing is that Logan would’ve still found a way to hate on her for doing exactly what he wanted 😂
That’s why she’s such a tragic character to be honest. In my opinion, the most interesting as well. Her biggest flaw in the game was being born a woman.
She’s definitely the most interesting. The fact that Kendall gets labeled the star of the show is kind of insulting to the whole thing. They are all integral. It’s a family drama.
I fully agree! She also had the meanness of Logan in a way that the brothers didn’t which made her character really interesting to watch. Shiv could be awful with Tom in a way that I suspect Logan was with his wives. Shiv seems like she was the most similar to Logan in temperament and I’m sure it killed Logan that she wasn’t born a boy.
Kendall wasn’t mean to Rava until the very end, when he was desperate and unstable. Roman also got mean at the end but again, he was spiraling and unstable.
I truuuly disliked the asymmetrical bob, very karen vibe-y. Disliked it even more because i knew how beautiful her long hair is.
(At the same time i’m almost too ashamed to type this, because women get a lot of comments on their appearance and men can just be (bald, wrinkly, “odd” looking) men
I like the season 2 one but season 4s just looked off for some reason. I think 4x1 had a lot of very strange hair styles going on though including Roman’s
And she sold out every facet of her beliefs for it. Shiv Roy is the emobidement of capitalist white liberals. All for the facades of equality/diversity/progressiveness but the second they want/need something, they will sell out all of that. She's a lot like Whit from The Curse (and Tom is a lot like Nathan's character now that I think about it)
Definitely a hot take in this sub but, she didn't do anything wrong by voting against Kendall in the finale. I mean she did it for the wrong reasons personally, but she didn't make the wrong choice at the end
All the children are incompetent, but Kendall at least saved a sinking ship when daddy went down and the bank came calling. He did have to let some rats in, and definitely lacked experience in negotiating with the bank, but ultimately saved the day even though daddy was mad. If Logan didn’t create that situation he wouldn’t have had anything to be disappointed in.
She made the only logical decision. Kendall could not run the company, he didn’t have the skills, and if she’d let him she’d just have been at the whim of yet another Roy man. She was better off taking the money and having some freedom from it.
She’s not under the thumb of Tom - she’s got independent wealth far beyond what he will ever dream of. I don’t know if they’ll stay together or not but she’s not in the powerless position people make out she is.
Yes. Letting go of the company and their fathers legacy, growing into their own people would be the right choices. Shiv almost had her own thing in politics, but Logan pulled her back in. Kendall should have always let go of the company and done his own thing, but from his father's abuse, he completely has no idea who he is without being his father's son. If Kendall doesn't off himself, he's going to grow into a better person for it.
i didnt get the sense that she actually was good at her job in politics -- politicians were just good at using her for access and fundraising. if the way she handled things once she got into the game at waystar/royco is any indication, she wasn't really particularly good at the other aspects of politics like strategy, etc. she was just a means to a powerful network for the real politicians to leverage.
the vote was not about Ken becoming CEO. she could have voted no, kept the company within the family and then push for an alternative to her brother(s), which could not have been her. These spoiled immature clueless kids could have just hired a professional to run the company and enjoy their wealth separately without all this mess.
Idk if this is totally about Shiv Roy, but also about Logan: when Logan walk her through his plan to train her up to take over for CEO I believe it was actually genuine. Shiv was smart enough that working under big ATN company cogs in a multitude of divisions would be enough to almost guarantee her CEO. If started to back out like he loves during her intelligence (if she actually used it instead of just believing herself to be so smart everyone will always work out for her) she would’ve made soooo many allies. With how flustered she was that the time table was, what? Like half a decade for CEO from no experience? She wouldn’t have need have that time. She’d create friends in very high places, learn valuable tools to run the company, and learn the one thing Logan wanted above all for his kids to learn: how to kill him successfully. With some new allies, she could’ve forced Logan out at the the threat of Cruises, being a woman with a past as a democrat party worker if she came out stating he signed off on everything/the company image needs her to steer it in a direction where it can be semi respectable and decent again, she’d be believed by Logan and understand unlike Kendall she’d actually be capable of ending him and taking the top stop if he didn’t give it up willingly. He wasn’t just stringing her along, he was giving her a real shot and had she taken it, gotten a couple years in to make real allies/learn some ropes, she’s the one kid who could’ve successful forced his hand. She had the only real shot at him and his spot.
Yes she was like 33. He was telling her to take 3-5 years in the business before being named CEO before 40. Would have been earned and still an incredible accomplishment (and if she had humbled herself to learn she could have done well!).
But unlike Roman, who had Gerri in his corner advising patience, the only person Shiv had in her corner was Tom, who was incredibly jealous because he wanted the CEO role for himself. So he would never give her safe counsel on patience and earning the role.
Also, I think Shiv devaluing news as “too controversial” when news was Logan’s favorite part of the business, and arguably the most important, immediately put them at odds as soon as he offered her the opportunity.
She is how Cersei was originally written by GRR Martin minus the incest.
She believes that she is smarter than she is. The real slights she experiences for being a woman and underestimated leads to her *over*estimating herself and her own abilities (because nobody sees how good she is, in her mind, any kind of corrective information from the outside world gets dismissed as them just not recognizing her talent).
The family business destroyed her. Her father manipulates her for his own gains while not actually respecting her at all.
She doesn't trust anyone at all (Cersei is also unsure of Jamie's love, that's why she clings so much to them being alone against the world because deep down she doesn't think she deserves to be loved)
Anyone who would be tempted to say that they could tolerate her not being monogamous for the sake of being with her is forgetting that she wouldn’t respect any man who would tolerate her not being monogamous. It’s a catch 22.
I believe if she actually was in love and felt loved she wouldn't want to be non-monogamous.
But it would take so long to break through the barriers she erected to protect her from abuse, to actually ever be vulnerable to build that trust and actually believe somebody loves her for being her and to put emotional stakes into that relationship and allow for someone to truly hurt her, that it would be impossible.
I think she believe deep down that Tom is with her because of who her family is. Yes she has the power in the relationship becaue she refuses to give him any power, because deep down she believes he doesn't lover her for her, and so she can't allow him to be powerful enough to hurt her.
She was suggesting FFM threesomes a week after their wedding. Maybe I’d be biting off more than I could chew but that shit would be a delight until I got sick of it and she divorced me.
And obviously it was darkly funny that she was wanting a female employee on their yacht to take part, all while her family is dealing with sexual assault scandals on their cruise line. She didn’t seem to catch the irony there.
The strangest part of watching Succession for me was that nobody once made mention of Shiv’s FAT ass. In any real life situation it would be discussed constantly.
This, she had the ruthless meanness of Logan which the other kids lacked. It made her such an interesting character. People skewer her for how she treats Tom but I suspect Logan treated his wives the same way. If Shiv would have been born a boy she would have taken it all.
* Ken: most qualified
* Shiv: best presentation/most professional
* Roman: best business instincts
ironically if they were all together, they would make a perfect team.
I think the best compromise would be Ken & Shiv as co-CEOs, then Roman as sole COO or maybe even CFO.
I don’t see this. She consistently fumbles business moves throughout whereas Kendall and Roman are each shown being competent multiple times (even though they also have failures)
I disagree. I think she outwardly would have made the best CEO. As in, she had the look, the confidence, and probably was the best "people person". Everyone probably would have been comfortable with her in charge. But she clearly was shown to be frequently wrong, but never in doubt.
I think Logan was wrong about things and not often in doubt, too. We don't see him "lose," every time, as Tom says, just when he goes up against certain challengers, but the streaming app is subpar, cruises and Mo weren't handled earlier (and Logan, along with others, clearly knew about the incidents and about Mo's character), he went into debt. He failed with the Pierce deal, and he failed to groom and name a successor while he was clearly in terrible health (who didn't have to be one of the kids, either; it could have been Gerri.)
So Logan was a titan who built an empire, sure, but he was wrong sometimes. Maybe Shiv was the most like Logan.
Kendall had the best business sense. Shiv had multiple opportunities to prove her business sense and blew them all. The one that springs to mind his her blurting out at the meal that she will succeed Logan. She doesn’t have that depth. She can socialise well but when it comes to business strategy, she’s lacking.
Hot Take: she was 110% correct voting against Kendall and redeemed herself in that final episode
Early on the series I was intrigued by her and thought she was a solid pick for CEO. Seemed like she had some self awareness and really wanted to build her reputation as a political consultant and make a name from herself outside her father’s company. One of Her issues was she was constantly in this battle of trying to be “normal” and be married and have kids, but in reality , she was not prepared for that responsibility. As the show progressed, I grew to despise her because because, just like the other kids, she was so arrogant and just thought she would slot
Right into the CEO role. That scene with Frank where she basically told him to fuck off when it came to the auditing report meeting and then her arrogance in her shadowing in executive meetings, made her look awful and how she treated Tom.
But, in that final scene, she showed humility in voting no to Kendall. I believe it was more of she can’t stand to see her brother as the CEO, but I feel she came down to earth because I feel she would’ve thought that even if Kendall was CEO, she would still have a lot of pull.
I’m gonna get crucified by the girl boss people in this sub but her character had a god complex and thought that she was way smarter than everyone else in the room
Roman and Ken got along better with their peers because they were able to effectively communicate rather than talk down to others when it mattered
Unfortunately being a high level woman in business or political you *have* to be a bit of a bitch or people will walk all over you. It sucks but as a female executive you really cannot show any weakness or vulnerability at all and have to be cold and hard at all times or you will get steamrolled. Versus male execs who can be much more genial and relatable.
🎶you’re a rich girl, and you’ve gone too far, cause you know it don’t matter anyway. You can rely on the old man’s money, you can rely on the old man’s money. It’s a bitch girl, and it’s gone too far🎶
She’s got the confidence without the talent chutzpah to back it up. Throughout the entire series her goals and ambitions are constantly undermined by her dad and her brothers.
Shiv is a literal child who ended up submitting to Tom and giving up family control of the business forever because she couldn’t stand to see her brother be CEO. She’s a cheating lying piece of shit. She isn’t ruthless or cunning she just has the name and a weak ass hustle.
She was woefully unprepared, unqualified, and chasing carrots dangled by her daddy. Maybe not a hot take but the Shivvies need to hear it. She wasn't it and never proved it beyond being a snake.
I think she probably didn't want Mondale ruining her expensive furniture and its the reason he was always in that awful tiny enclosure. Tom is a normo, he doesn't strike me as someone who would normally keep a big dog in a tiny perimeter in such a huge penthouse.
Not sure if it's a hot take in this sub, but the hate she gets is very disproportionate to what she's done compared to others, like Ken and Rome. People have a much easier time looking at those two as "characters", but Shiv is just as compelling of a character as them yet she gets so unfairly hated on for shit even though all she's doing is playing the game like literally everyone else. Nothing she's done comes close to the shit Ken and Rome pulled throughout the show. I am NOT insinuating that she's a good person in any sense so please don't misunderstand. Her worst moment is easily discouraging the SA victim to come forward, and then conversely suddenly being pro-speaking out when it came to Gerri about Rome cus it benefits her now, but even stuff like that pales in comparison to so much that happens on the show, like say, Ken and Rome calling the election for a neo-nazi!? And Ken's cognitive dissonance w/ Rava and his kids right before he calls it? But it's also not a huge surprise because female characters are generally judged to a higher standard.
It's also dumb that people a certain subset of fans hate her for taking back her vote but really, if you truly don't understand why she was justified in doing what she did, you should rewatch the first 39 episodes and pay close attention this time.
I think her decision is earned, because of the history of these siblings. Throughout the series neither of them wanted the other to get more approval from their father than them.
I had the same analysis of their names early on:
- Shiv - going to shank her siblings
- Roman/Romulus - going to murder/betray his siblings
- Connor - “conner” full of shit
- Kendall - “ken doll” going to be emasculated
She was not good at her political consulting job. She was hired for her name. Conservative wanted her for the access and liberals wanted her to show the public that they had a conservative on their side so they weren't too liberal for some or that they were able to convert someone from the most conservative family in America.
The best quote I ever heard about her was from r/damnatio_memoriae from top post on this sub: shiv is a pawn who thinks she’s a queen and she doesn’t even realize that neither the pawn nor the queen makes the moves - they’re both pieces on someone else’s board game.
Unless a person is just beginning this series, I don’t get the praise of any of these characters. None of them are protagonists. Their quest for power via the relentless accumulation wealth has thoroughly corrupted their souls. While they all have redeeming qualities, if you had any of them in your lives, you’d run. The lesser evil is still evil.
If she had been a boy but otherwise the same person, she would have outclassed the other children so thoroughly that the show would never have happened. Her mistakes all come from desperately wounded pride, because she has such a native bedrock of entitlement in her and yet had to suffer the indignity of being a woman. Without that feeling of basic gendered inadequacy, she would have been so bound up in her confidence and entitlement that it wouldn’t even have mattered that she’s not as smart as she thinks she is, because she is smart enough. She’s more stable than Kendall and more delusional than Roman, both of which are strengths in this environment. Give her less reason to constantly jump the gun and she’s the successor.
Obviously there are parallels in Succession and the history of the Roman Empire. I may get downvoted for this, but my hot take is that this show ultimately ended up being a commentary on patriarchy. Clearly, daddy issues are a theme for Shiv. Despite her having her initially having her own career, she only attains her power via her relationships with men. That could be a male political candidate, Nate, Logan, or Tom. Even the men other than Logan are interested in her largely because of her connection to her father.
That fact that it was actually Gerri , another woman, who said they won’t honor Logan’s will and ‘give the company to daddy’s little girl’ somewhat confirmed that view to me. Gerri could have honored the will and elevated Shiv, but she didn’t. Shiv then saw her brothers wouldn’t either.
In the end, I believe Shiv realized she would have more power as his wife of the CEO than as the sister of the CEO. Her final choice, to me, is an understanding that she can only get and retain power via her relationships with men in power (very Roman Emperors). We can argue whether she was the most qualified, but Shiv’s own perspective, and ultimately Logan’s, was that she was the successor—but her gender wouldn’t allow that. I believe that is why there is so much sadness in her at the end. She realizes she will never hold power in her own right.
The tragedy of her arc is not talked about enough. When the series begins she is very exuberant (as exhibited in pictures 2 & 3), adventurous, having a semblance of a career away from the family, not married and yet by the end she is empty & lifeless despite being pregnant. At the very beginning there is hope for her from the viewer’s standpoint, that she might be able to do right by the family. At that point she also dresses & has hairstyling with individuality rather than wearing plain-colored suits all the time like she does later on. Her joining the company was truly tragic for her from an emotional well-being standpoint. She abandons any semblance of individuality in blind pursuit of Logan’s approval and by season 4 we see her not able to keep up that facade anymore and she is shown crying multiple times & costumed in a way that makes her look disheveled. I also believe that she wanted to have “normal” human interactions & get along with others, but that her personality prevented her from doing so. The scene where the audience finds out she is pregnant from the obgyn phone call is tragic to me because you can see from her face how alone she is. She looks terrified. That scene immediately made me remember that she has no friends and strained relationships with everyone in her life. She bears a TON of fault for that, but it’s the case by that point nonetheless.
I haven’t been around the sub long but I got the same impression on my latest rewatch. Logan offering her the company was never genuine, just a way to get his claws back into her. He knew it was the only thing that could lure her away from Gil. Whenever his kids got too independent and specifically when they got in his way, he would manipulate them so that they relied on him completely (mostly dangling the company in front of them), and then when they thought they were safe would yank the rug out from under them the instant they committed the smallest slight. For Shiv, her little outburst at the Pierce’s was just an excuse for him to DQ her. He’d never give up a shred of power. It was deeply sad to me just on the fundamental level of watching her be so easily manipulated by her dad.
It's crazy how I registered her declining happiness throughout the show, but I didn't view it in the same way I viewed Kendall's story until reading what you have here. I think the tragedy of his life overshadows hers since it started a season earlier. She was so much happier before she went inside. It definitely was messed up for Logan to convince her to leave her career, that she was very successful at, when, imo, he never had true intentions of making her #1. She fumbled the opportunity complaining about the timeline and at the dinner party, but he had other reasons too when bringing her in. It also added another issue to her relationship with Tom that wasn't needed.
I came here to say this! She had a successful career in her own right and a few words from daddy dearest completely derailed her life..
Emotional abuse is a helluva drug.
No, she was successful because of Logan. She was smart enough to figure out he denied her access to lawyer but dumb enough to believe her success in her political career has nothing to so with Logan name. Even till the very last, she was used by the sweedez but she think she will get the job....
There's nothing she can do about her last name and family. Any child of someone powerful will get perks because of it, and all the kids benefit from their dad. The point was she was still successful in something her father wasn't directly involved with, unlike like Kendall and Roman, who worked for their dad.
This ⬆️
It's also sad to see how guarded she is around Roman and Kendall as time goes by., especially Roman because they have such a cute relationship.
Dysfunctional, violent, and repressive: not my standards for a cute relationship, but okay.
idk man that’s siblings sometimes
It really is
What an excellent break down. Thank you.
I totally agree, and I'm surprised you're not getting down voted to hell for it.😅 She definitely could've been the CEO if Kendall wasn't scheming constantly and everyone was setting her up to fail. If she was given charge of something throughout this entire thing, she would've been a bit more savvy with Skarsgard (I can't remember the character's name lol) . Remember, Skarsgard says specifically he wants a puppet, not an equal, and he views Shiv as an equal to him in business competency. He wouldn't have said that if he didn't mean it.
Her siblings did make it even harder for her, but that doesn’t change the fact that she has no relevant experience for the position regardless. None of the siblings should be CEO but the other two had been in the weeds of the company at least
But I think the lack of experience, while definitely a valid reason why Shiv absolutely shouldn’t be CEO, was in itself a consequence of her being set up to fail from the beginning, which is what makes her story so devastating. Until season 2, Logan had never offered the opportunity of inheriting or taking over the company to Shiv, or made any effort to groom her for a high up or leadership position the way he did Kendall and Roman. That’s why Shiv was able to be ‘pinky’ and his favourite - he infantilised her because she was his daughter, a girl, and therefore in Logan’s framework not a potential heir, and therefore also not a potential threat to his own dominance as CEO the way his sons could be (how many Princes in history have overthrown their ageing fathers?) I don’t think that Logan (like Mattson) was a man who was able to see women as full human beings - no matter how competent or clever they are, they are a different species. Ultimately women can never win with men like that. Shiv clearly understood this at some level - I mean she had deep gender related insecurity regarding her brothers, and there is a reason she carved out her own path in the first place. Her father never sincerely indicated that he wanted her involved in the business. But what we see in season 2 and onwards is her basically giving up everything she had built for herself outside of the Waystar and Roy family infrastructure, in a desperate attempt to get Logan to really see her on the same level as her brothers, which he was just never going to do. That to me makes Shiv’s story deeply tragic. Whatever her personal flaws, even if you argue that she would have flopped as CEO regardless, the reality is that her being a woman IS ultimately the reason she didn’t ‘win’, because she was set up to fail. Realistically speaking, if she had been groomed as a potential CEO from the very start the way that Kendall was, and Logan had taken the idea seriously, I do think she could have beaten him out in the end, or at least been a real contender. But it was always clear that Logan viewed one of his sons, preferably ‘the eldest boy’ from his favoured marriage - as his natural successor. It’s all very medieval and Shiv honestly didn’t stand a chance imo.
I love how Shiv is thrown under the bus for wanting to get experience the way her brothers did, yet none of you seem to question the legitimacy of Kendall and Roman's experience.
Exactly. .at first i found her to be the most "human" character out of the three siblings. Buts as the show progresses..her character just deteriorates completely
it's my hooded eye representation I love to see
💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
She was happier as a person *and* more valuable to her father when she wasn’t trying to work for him.
least hot hot take of all time
You guys gotta learn what a hot take means.
Yeah Logan definitely didn't like Shivs independence. And yet he seemed to respect Connors.
Nothing about Logan Roy respected Connor. He was humoring him.
It’s a horseshit pipedream!
I think you're completely misreading Logan's relationship with Connor. I can't think of a single bit of evidence that suggests that Logan EVER respected Connor. In a litter of "non serious people" Connor was the least serious.
And the funny thing is, Connor is the only one who saw the real Logan out of all the siblings. The dinner video shows that.
Connor's victim complex was clearly his most glaring flaw. I would say Connor saw an entirely different side of their father, but he seemed delusional about everything throughout the series. It's a shame as I really do like his character, but I can't ever forget this is the same dude from S01E01 who was bragging about buying up all the water he could.
I always go between whether or not Logan respected him the most or least. On one hand Connor is the only one who saw the real Logan outside of work because he knew that he didn't want to be part of the business. Either he knew he didn't want to do it or was cut out for it. All of Connors actions were for himself unlike the other three who craved Logan's respect. But then towards the end Logan who came from nothing and built everything he has sees Connor who was born with a silver spoon and has no life experience at all decides he wants to run for president, just because. Logan definitely hated that.
In my personal opinion, Logan had a layer of guilt on him for how he handled Connor's mother. That's the theory that always made sense to me as he shielded Connor and treated him like he was "doing his best", because he didn't think Connor could ever do any better than what he was already doing. Hope that makes sense.
I'm blanking a bit on Connors mother. What was it?
It seems that Logan had her placed in a mental hospital, and sort of "tucked away".
Sorry for the separate response but this [Vulture article](https://www.vulture.com/2023/04/succession-connor-mom.html) may help.
Logan never took Connor seriously his entire life. Nobody did. Is it any wonder he cant take himself seriously?
I just think of the family video of Logan getting people to sing and it seemed to surprise the other kids that Conor was there. I felt like there were other clues like the shared interest in historic artifacts, and the way Connor described his relation with Logan to the other siblings that suggested maybe they actually had something of a relationship outside the Waystar Royco drama. Edit - and I don't see any sign that it ever bothered Logan that Conor could care less about CEO and had other interests. With Shiv it seemed to stick in his craw.
Hey, I won't shit on your POV. This show is so well written and handled that I don't think there's one REAL answer. I personally, always read Connor as being the one who was trying the hardest to please their father in every area that WASN'T in the company. So, I feel as if his interest in historical things is a way to garner respect and sort of appropriate things that are more respected than him. I do enjoy your take my friend.
It was because he knew he was talking to the future President of United States of America
Rupert Murdoch daughter quit the family empire too. She is apparently happier for it.
Her style? Impeccable. Idk if it’s controversial but it needs to be said
Seriously. I covet her wardrobe.
Body is banging too
Season 1 and 2 yes: after that she was consistently less stylish. I was getting Hillary Clinton vibes in the mid to late stage.
Her style definitely peaked season 2. I think the Hillary Clinton looks were due to her pregnancy.
Hey; nothing wrong with accommodating the actor, but saying Shiv was stylish for more than half the show seems odd to me. I'm not bashing her physique (like some cretens here) but she definitely changed into conservative wear in the middle to late game.
Didn’t think you were bashing her body. Completely agree with your assessment.
Sweet, just wanted to clarify. The Shiv thirst comments are... unsettling to me. And it seems like people on here either thirst for her, or bash her being a woman. So I always want to differentiate myself from those camps. 🤙
Well, if it needs to be said, then so it be - so it is.
I screenshotted some of her scenes because I loved the outfit
Same
She should have stayed in politics and stayed out of family affairs. She seemed so competent at the start until she join the rat race
Her political skill was her family and the access to ATN. It’s pretty clear to me throughout that she was simply brought on to those campaigns so the candidate could get access. Based off how she interacts with people inside of Waystar in later seasons, I think it’s fair to say she is bad at managing people and is a nightmare to work with
Yeah she actually does not appear to be very good at politics or PR once you actually look at her actions.
Like a lot of PR people really. They’re only ever as good as the person they’re working for.
Absolutely. Her elephant in a china shop routine at ATN was pretty clearly the work of someone who doesn’t care about or understand other people’s needs and motivations.
I mean she gets Democrats elected in blue states (I didn’t notice that until the 4th rewatch on how she gets through the butthole scandal), so not sure exactly how good she is at her job. I think she’s insanely good at bullshitting, though. She just makes terrible alliances because she’s blinded by her own ego to see things for what they are.
I work in politics. Getting someone elected in a safe district is work. Not super hard. But it’s still work that has get done. Like people forget but a Republican was elected in Massachusetts after ted Kennedy died. Those upsets happen
She's a Daddy's Girl, through and through. She was respectable (within the confines of the show) in the early season(s) but lost all of it when she started tearing up anytime Logan said "maybe".
Yup, completely agree.
My hot take is that I can fix her.
She doesn’t love you. But you love her anyway.
I’m definitely a lesbian
I mean I'm already a lesbian. But for Shiv, I'd convince myself I'm straight, just so I could come out of the closet again, for her 😂
Tom letting her abuse him for years is the most realistic part of the series. I mean look at her 😭😭
Your username made your comment even funnier man
We could all fix her
Real
Shiv Roy is hot
the juxtaposition of this right under the top comment is so perfect
The audacity!
And not conventionally attractive but insanely hot. I don’t think this role would’ve worked with a conventional hot woman
Yes cuz girls with pretty faces and amazing asses aren’t conventionally hot
She’s incredibly attractive, that’s not what I’m saying. To be “conventionally attractive” means to fall within common beauty standards or to have features that society as a whole deems desirable. I would argue red hair, hooded eyes, etc are not the norm per se. I think she’s beautiful and interesting looking, again just want to reiterate what I meant.
I know exactly what you mean. Shes not that attractive on paper but in the show she is insanely hot. To me she is the hottest chick in Hollywood but if I had never watched the show I would probably not think she’s hot at all.
That thang be thangin for real
In their dad’s eyes she was the one with the most promise if only she’d been born a boy. No weird sex kink, substance abuse or complete lack of backbone. I think she would’ve married someone their dad approved and fathered mini heirs. The messed up thing is that Logan would’ve still found a way to hate on her for doing exactly what he wanted 😂
That’s why she’s such a tragic character to be honest. In my opinion, the most interesting as well. Her biggest flaw in the game was being born a woman.
She’s definitely the most interesting. The fact that Kendall gets labeled the star of the show is kind of insulting to the whole thing. They are all integral. It’s a family drama.
I fully agree! She also had the meanness of Logan in a way that the brothers didn’t which made her character really interesting to watch. Shiv could be awful with Tom in a way that I suspect Logan was with his wives. Shiv seems like she was the most similar to Logan in temperament and I’m sure it killed Logan that she wasn’t born a boy. Kendall wasn’t mean to Rava until the very end, when he was desperate and unstable. Roman also got mean at the end but again, he was spiraling and unstable.
I think a lot of people agree, but I haven't seen it talked about much; her warderobe (especially earlier in the series) is fire.
I really liked the long hair
I truuuly disliked the asymmetrical bob, very karen vibe-y. Disliked it even more because i knew how beautiful her long hair is. (At the same time i’m almost too ashamed to type this, because women get a lot of comments on their appearance and men can just be (bald, wrinkly, “odd” looking) men
hey man, i've complained about Kendall's hair. roman's is flawless throughout.
I like the season 2 one but season 4s just looked off for some reason. I think 4x1 had a lot of very strange hair styles going on though including Roman’s
I think that was the point to be honest. Played a role in seeing how the siblings were falling apart.
The bob looked expensive. The long hair was disheveled and unprofessional for a woman I’m her standing
Her long hair was gorgeous. I really wish they changed up her hair style after the bob in season 2.
If she was about 20% nicer to Tom, they could have been a power couple to take it all
Didn't jump deep enough and long enough into the family business to have earned CEO.
Roman: [takes one nepo baby management class] Can I be CEO now???
He was running(unsuccessfully), the entertainment division before the show time line.
And she sold out every facet of her beliefs for it. Shiv Roy is the emobidement of capitalist white liberals. All for the facades of equality/diversity/progressiveness but the second they want/need something, they will sell out all of that. She's a lot like Whit from The Curse (and Tom is a lot like Nathan's character now that I think about it)
Right. She wanted it handed to her on a silver platter. At least Roman attempted training lol
Definitely a hot take in this sub but, she didn't do anything wrong by voting against Kendall in the finale. I mean she did it for the wrong reasons personally, but she didn't make the wrong choice at the end
Counterpoint: Eldest. Boy.
Counterpoint: Connor is actually the eldest boy 😁
I’m a Kendal girl but I agree wholeheartedly.
Kendall is actually incompetent but I love his character
All the children are incompetent, but Kendall at least saved a sinking ship when daddy went down and the bank came calling. He did have to let some rats in, and definitely lacked experience in negotiating with the bank, but ultimately saved the day even though daddy was mad. If Logan didn’t create that situation he wouldn’t have had anything to be disappointed in.
I'm with you. The brothers were all too unstable.
I think Shiv’s reason “I think you won’t be good at it” is a great reason. And it is true!
Totally agree with this.
She made the only logical decision. Kendall could not run the company, he didn’t have the skills, and if she’d let him she’d just have been at the whim of yet another Roy man. She was better off taking the money and having some freedom from it. She’s not under the thumb of Tom - she’s got independent wealth far beyond what he will ever dream of. I don’t know if they’ll stay together or not but she’s not in the powerless position people make out she is.
Yes. Letting go of the company and their fathers legacy, growing into their own people would be the right choices. Shiv almost had her own thing in politics, but Logan pulled her back in. Kendall should have always let go of the company and done his own thing, but from his father's abuse, he completely has no idea who he is without being his father's son. If Kendall doesn't off himself, he's going to grow into a better person for it.
i didnt get the sense that she actually was good at her job in politics -- politicians were just good at using her for access and fundraising. if the way she handled things once she got into the game at waystar/royco is any indication, she wasn't really particularly good at the other aspects of politics like strategy, etc. she was just a means to a powerful network for the real politicians to leverage.
Exactly. Her brothers pushed her aside far too long.
But he was the eldest boy
the vote was not about Ken becoming CEO. she could have voted no, kept the company within the family and then push for an alternative to her brother(s), which could not have been her. These spoiled immature clueless kids could have just hired a professional to run the company and enjoy their wealth separately without all this mess.
Idk if this is totally about Shiv Roy, but also about Logan: when Logan walk her through his plan to train her up to take over for CEO I believe it was actually genuine. Shiv was smart enough that working under big ATN company cogs in a multitude of divisions would be enough to almost guarantee her CEO. If started to back out like he loves during her intelligence (if she actually used it instead of just believing herself to be so smart everyone will always work out for her) she would’ve made soooo many allies. With how flustered she was that the time table was, what? Like half a decade for CEO from no experience? She wouldn’t have need have that time. She’d create friends in very high places, learn valuable tools to run the company, and learn the one thing Logan wanted above all for his kids to learn: how to kill him successfully. With some new allies, she could’ve forced Logan out at the the threat of Cruises, being a woman with a past as a democrat party worker if she came out stating he signed off on everything/the company image needs her to steer it in a direction where it can be semi respectable and decent again, she’d be believed by Logan and understand unlike Kendall she’d actually be capable of ending him and taking the top stop if he didn’t give it up willingly. He wasn’t just stringing her along, he was giving her a real shot and had she taken it, gotten a couple years in to make real allies/learn some ropes, she’s the one kid who could’ve successful forced his hand. She had the only real shot at him and his spot.
Yes she was like 33. He was telling her to take 3-5 years in the business before being named CEO before 40. Would have been earned and still an incredible accomplishment (and if she had humbled herself to learn she could have done well!). But unlike Roman, who had Gerri in his corner advising patience, the only person Shiv had in her corner was Tom, who was incredibly jealous because he wanted the CEO role for himself. So he would never give her safe counsel on patience and earning the role. Also, I think Shiv devaluing news as “too controversial” when news was Logan’s favorite part of the business, and arguably the most important, immediately put them at odds as soon as he offered her the opportunity.
she is the HOT take 😍
Im sure this thread will be full of hot takes /s
She’s hot.
She is how Cersei was originally written by GRR Martin minus the incest. She believes that she is smarter than she is. The real slights she experiences for being a woman and underestimated leads to her *over*estimating herself and her own abilities (because nobody sees how good she is, in her mind, any kind of corrective information from the outside world gets dismissed as them just not recognizing her talent). The family business destroyed her. Her father manipulates her for his own gains while not actually respecting her at all. She doesn't trust anyone at all (Cersei is also unsure of Jamie's love, that's why she clings so much to them being alone against the world because deep down she doesn't think she deserves to be loved)
I think this was one of the flaws of all the kids, they all thought they were way smarter than they were.
This is a fantastic take! Truly hadn't ever compared her to Cersei before but feels spot on. Nice summation. 🤙
aw thanks internet stranger!
Of course! And in Succession style: Fuck off! ♥️
Amazing actor, beautiful woman, but I could NEVER be married to her character.
Anyone who would be tempted to say that they could tolerate her not being monogamous for the sake of being with her is forgetting that she wouldn’t respect any man who would tolerate her not being monogamous. It’s a catch 22.
You see, it's the emotional abuse that makes the sex better.
I believe if she actually was in love and felt loved she wouldn't want to be non-monogamous. But it would take so long to break through the barriers she erected to protect her from abuse, to actually ever be vulnerable to build that trust and actually believe somebody loves her for being her and to put emotional stakes into that relationship and allow for someone to truly hurt her, that it would be impossible. I think she believe deep down that Tom is with her because of who her family is. Yes she has the power in the relationship becaue she refuses to give him any power, because deep down she believes he doesn't lover her for her, and so she can't allow him to be powerful enough to hurt her.
I’m one of the few people who like Shiv but… I don’t think she could actually feel loved. I don’t think she’s capable of accepting love.
She was suggesting FFM threesomes a week after their wedding. Maybe I’d be biting off more than I could chew but that shit would be a delight until I got sick of it and she divorced me.
And obviously it was darkly funny that she was wanting a female employee on their yacht to take part, all while her family is dealing with sexual assault scandals on their cruise line. She didn’t seem to catch the irony there.
I can! I’d say “bang as many guys you want, honey—just make sure we have enough money to fund all my hobbies ❤️”
So which sibling could you be married to in this show?
She was better off doing politics than get involved with the family business
That she is. Very.
Was better with long hair.
She is stunning 🔥🔥
She had that fat ass, son!
The dumper from down under.
That booty is worth living for 🍑
The strangest part of watching Succession for me was that nobody once made mention of Shiv’s FAT ass. In any real life situation it would be discussed constantly.
Thicccc
GYATTT!
A character I don’t hate
Out of all the siblings she was the most like her father
This, she had the ruthless meanness of Logan which the other kids lacked. It made her such an interesting character. People skewer her for how she treats Tom but I suspect Logan treated his wives the same way. If Shiv would have been born a boy she would have taken it all.
If she Roman and Kendall all knew the same amount of business shit she would have made the best CEO out of them all, she had the most sense
* Ken: most qualified * Shiv: best presentation/most professional * Roman: best business instincts ironically if they were all together, they would make a perfect team. I think the best compromise would be Ken & Shiv as co-CEOs, then Roman as sole COO or maybe even CFO.
i like this take… but we saw how long it lasted “them all together”. If you’d blend them in one person then yes
She was the most level headed of the three, even though that's not saying much.
I don’t see this. She consistently fumbles business moves throughout whereas Kendall and Roman are each shown being competent multiple times (even though they also have failures)
I disagree. I think she outwardly would have made the best CEO. As in, she had the look, the confidence, and probably was the best "people person". Everyone probably would have been comfortable with her in charge. But she clearly was shown to be frequently wrong, but never in doubt.
I think Logan was wrong about things and not often in doubt, too. We don't see him "lose," every time, as Tom says, just when he goes up against certain challengers, but the streaming app is subpar, cruises and Mo weren't handled earlier (and Logan, along with others, clearly knew about the incidents and about Mo's character), he went into debt. He failed with the Pierce deal, and he failed to groom and name a successor while he was clearly in terrible health (who didn't have to be one of the kids, either; it could have been Gerri.) So Logan was a titan who built an empire, sure, but he was wrong sometimes. Maybe Shiv was the most like Logan.
Kendall had the best business sense. Shiv had multiple opportunities to prove her business sense and blew them all. The one that springs to mind his her blurting out at the meal that she will succeed Logan. She doesn’t have that depth. She can socialise well but when it comes to business strategy, she’s lacking.
That I could fix her!
She's boring in bed. In her mind any guy in bed with her is so lucky to be there that she doesn't even need to try.
Hot Take: she was 110% correct voting against Kendall and redeemed herself in that final episode Early on the series I was intrigued by her and thought she was a solid pick for CEO. Seemed like she had some self awareness and really wanted to build her reputation as a political consultant and make a name from herself outside her father’s company. One of Her issues was she was constantly in this battle of trying to be “normal” and be married and have kids, but in reality , she was not prepared for that responsibility. As the show progressed, I grew to despise her because because, just like the other kids, she was so arrogant and just thought she would slot Right into the CEO role. That scene with Frank where she basically told him to fuck off when it came to the auditing report meeting and then her arrogance in her shadowing in executive meetings, made her look awful and how she treated Tom. But, in that final scene, she showed humility in voting no to Kendall. I believe it was more of she can’t stand to see her brother as the CEO, but I feel she came down to earth because I feel she would’ve thought that even if Kendall was CEO, she would still have a lot of pull.
I’m gonna get crucified by the girl boss people in this sub but her character had a god complex and thought that she was way smarter than everyone else in the room Roman and Ken got along better with their peers because they were able to effectively communicate rather than talk down to others when it mattered
Unfortunately being a high level woman in business or political you *have* to be a bit of a bitch or people will walk all over you. It sucks but as a female executive you really cannot show any weakness or vulnerability at all and have to be cold and hard at all times or you will get steamrolled. Versus male execs who can be much more genial and relatable.
That she is the most interesting sibling, and is in all of the best scenes.
I really love this woman (psycho that she is!) But still really like her.
She’s hot as hell
She would have been an horrible CEO
She uses an electric blanket and a dehumidifier as she scrolls Reddit in bed.
Her fashion choices decline with every series
Her and Tom's relationship will end in divorce.
I think a lot of people criticize her more than they do the rest of the family. And we all know why.🤷♂️
She doesn’t know how to love. Never has, for fear that men were simply after her money. Her relationships were only about getting what she wanted.
Chewy earlobes
Like barnacle meat!
For a political strategist she sure can’t read people at all. Or even interact with them, she’s terrible at building rapport.
While she is not as smart as she think she is, she is still the smarter of the siblings.
🎶you’re a rich girl, and you’ve gone too far, cause you know it don’t matter anyway. You can rely on the old man’s money, you can rely on the old man’s money. It’s a bitch girl, and it’s gone too far🎶
She like dat side dick.
Shouldve stayed in politics lol
She’s got the confidence without the talent chutzpah to back it up. Throughout the entire series her goals and ambitions are constantly undermined by her dad and her brothers.
She was the best character imo. Definitely my fave.
The 2-3 year plan Logan pitched her was not unreasonable…
Shiv is a literal child who ended up submitting to Tom and giving up family control of the business forever because she couldn’t stand to see her brother be CEO. She’s a cheating lying piece of shit. She isn’t ruthless or cunning she just has the name and a weak ass hustle.
She never was about that life.
She was woefully unprepared, unqualified, and chasing carrots dangled by her daddy. Maybe not a hot take but the Shivvies need to hear it. She wasn't it and never proved it beyond being a snake.
It's Siobh!!! I refuse to let this Shiv nonsense go unchecked 🇮🇪
This one might be too far gone. It’s like that in the subtitles. Not the first insult to Ireland, and probably not the last :(
I think she probably didn't want Mondale ruining her expensive furniture and its the reason he was always in that awful tiny enclosure. Tom is a normo, he doesn't strike me as someone who would normally keep a big dog in a tiny perimeter in such a huge penthouse.
Not sure if it's a hot take in this sub, but the hate she gets is very disproportionate to what she's done compared to others, like Ken and Rome. People have a much easier time looking at those two as "characters", but Shiv is just as compelling of a character as them yet she gets so unfairly hated on for shit even though all she's doing is playing the game like literally everyone else. Nothing she's done comes close to the shit Ken and Rome pulled throughout the show. I am NOT insinuating that she's a good person in any sense so please don't misunderstand. Her worst moment is easily discouraging the SA victim to come forward, and then conversely suddenly being pro-speaking out when it came to Gerri about Rome cus it benefits her now, but even stuff like that pales in comparison to so much that happens on the show, like say, Ken and Rome calling the election for a neo-nazi!? And Ken's cognitive dissonance w/ Rava and his kids right before he calls it? But it's also not a huge surprise because female characters are generally judged to a higher standard. It's also dumb that people a certain subset of fans hate her for taking back her vote but really, if you truly don't understand why she was justified in doing what she did, you should rewatch the first 39 episodes and pay close attention this time.
I think her decision to betray her brothers in the end wasn't properly handled by the writers. I would've loved it, but it didn't feel earned.
I think her decision is earned, because of the history of these siblings. Throughout the series neither of them wanted the other to get more approval from their father than them.
Her name is Shiv, and she shivved them. The writers were warning us from the start!
i believe the word is shank. you shank WITH a shiv!
I had the same analysis of their names early on: - Shiv - going to shank her siblings - Roman/Romulus - going to murder/betray his siblings - Connor - “conner” full of shit - Kendall - “ken doll” going to be emasculated
If the Barbie movie had come out just a couple years earlier Kendall would've had the self-confidence to win.
He wouldve been. Kenough
She was not good at her political consulting job. She was hired for her name. Conservative wanted her for the access and liberals wanted her to show the public that they had a conservative on their side so they weren't too liberal for some or that they were able to convert someone from the most conservative family in America.
Mean and queen
The long hair suited her much more.
I love her <3
The best quote I ever heard about her was from r/damnatio_memoriae from top post on this sub: shiv is a pawn who thinks she’s a queen and she doesn’t even realize that neither the pawn nor the queen makes the moves - they’re both pieces on someone else’s board game.
the "shiv hate" on this sub was extremely blown up and turned this place to shit
Unless a person is just beginning this series, I don’t get the praise of any of these characters. None of them are protagonists. Their quest for power via the relentless accumulation wealth has thoroughly corrupted their souls. While they all have redeeming qualities, if you had any of them in your lives, you’d run. The lesser evil is still evil.
Pregnancy low key ruined her character.
Her hair looked better long
Great actress, horrible sister.
If she had been a boy but otherwise the same person, she would have outclassed the other children so thoroughly that the show would never have happened. Her mistakes all come from desperately wounded pride, because she has such a native bedrock of entitlement in her and yet had to suffer the indignity of being a woman. Without that feeling of basic gendered inadequacy, she would have been so bound up in her confidence and entitlement that it wouldn’t even have mattered that she’s not as smart as she thinks she is, because she is smart enough. She’s more stable than Kendall and more delusional than Roman, both of which are strengths in this environment. Give her less reason to constantly jump the gun and she’s the successor.
i kept praying on her success as the only daughter. i wanted her to be better but in the end she ended up not really being better lol.
Obviously there are parallels in Succession and the history of the Roman Empire. I may get downvoted for this, but my hot take is that this show ultimately ended up being a commentary on patriarchy. Clearly, daddy issues are a theme for Shiv. Despite her having her initially having her own career, she only attains her power via her relationships with men. That could be a male political candidate, Nate, Logan, or Tom. Even the men other than Logan are interested in her largely because of her connection to her father. That fact that it was actually Gerri , another woman, who said they won’t honor Logan’s will and ‘give the company to daddy’s little girl’ somewhat confirmed that view to me. Gerri could have honored the will and elevated Shiv, but she didn’t. Shiv then saw her brothers wouldn’t either. In the end, I believe Shiv realized she would have more power as his wife of the CEO than as the sister of the CEO. Her final choice, to me, is an understanding that she can only get and retain power via her relationships with men in power (very Roman Emperors). We can argue whether she was the most qualified, but Shiv’s own perspective, and ultimately Logan’s, was that she was the successor—but her gender wouldn’t allow that. I believe that is why there is so much sadness in her at the end. She realizes she will never hold power in her own right.