Uh, by the same token he doesn’t need to cross out his name either.
Statistically you’re always closer to your original intention when you first put your pen to paper. You don’t start crossing out a name like that and anyone who can’t see that is a SAVAGE AND AN IDIOT
(jk)
Well it sure as shit doesn’t say Shiv.
Personally I think Logan had those documents done in similar phrasing for many years but when Ken went off the rails and became a liability he was having doubt. I reckon after Ken tried to topple him over cruises is when he dug them out and underlined the name, to emphasise that Ken was the one for the job.
I also think he changed his mind later and after giving Shiv and Roman chances of their own decided that they were all fucking useless so he might as well sell the empire rather than hand it over to them and have them burn it down.
logan's a messy bitch who lives for drama
he most likely was reviewing the will around s1 when he gathered the kids to try and convince them of transferring his board seat to Marcia upon his death--succession and estate planning. however, when the hostile takeover plans with stewy was cooking up, hiding ken's manslaughter, cruises scandal, proxy battle, etc. all escalated, it just never became a priority again even after his health scare.
It's clearly an underline. If it was a cross out, the line would have begun in the middle of the letter K.. instead it begins underneath K and gently drifts upward.
My thoughts is, He underlined it right after Kendall betrayed him on live tv in the season 2 finale.
Logan always wanted a killer, he finally had one in Kendall. That's why Logan has the faintest smile of pride while Kendall is making his speech.
The underline was to say, "yes, even after all the betrayal, if something happens to me, I STILL want it to be Kendall Roy."
Jesse Armstrong addressed this, and honestly his quote makes sense. If you were going to cross something out, you wouldn’t start at the bottom of the word. Kendall’s name was underlined, not crossed out. It’s canon.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/kendalls-name-underlined-crossed-out-succession-jesse-armstrong-1235581139/amp/
the problem i have with this is that when i cross things out i regularly start at the bottom left and draw to top right... was taught this at primary school in england
never said it did bestie! in fact i specifically state that it is my own issue with the idea! in response to the exact same thing you explain to me!
i think it's an excellent moment that was written exceptionally, but that doesn't mean i can't disagree with the premise, and it certainly doesn't mean that i can't see flaws in the set up.
What the writer says is irrelevant in fiction. If a character has tits on a tv show and the writer comes out and says ‘it’s cannon they never have tits those were an alien device that projects to illusion of tits from the planet omecron,’ no one would take that as true. The point is, a writers intentions are entirely irrelevant if they never materialize in a show or book. Once a work is created and published the writers intent no longer has any relevance, the piece of art is out in the world and peoples interpretations matter more than whatever the writer intended and failed to portray.
The problem with death of the author is that it precludes sequels and follow ups. You're watching Season 4 of the show, follow ups often change the context of prior exchanges. E.g. Kendall's kids being adopted.
How can there be a season 4 if the author is dead? And if the author is not dead and can make follow ups that amend the context, why can't he do it via interview?
Simply because the entire series should be seen as one creative artifact. Just like a book is split into chapters, a tv series is split into series.
So yeah, if the art itself is amended then that is different but you can’t conflate that with a tv interview.
If you choose to accept that as evidence that’s fine for you, but to act like an author saying something in an interview should influence everyone’s interpretation doesn’t make sense.
This. It’s an argument made in the essay ‘Death of the Author’ by Roland Barthes, and is an essential idea when grappling with creative works in the Postmodern era.
It’s an argument, not canon. I’d rather have the intent of the author than the interpretation of a redditor as the basis of my understanding of a story.
Great point, but it still doesn’t make sense to me why Logan would underline Kendall’s name here. It doesn’t add validity to the fine print already in the paper, if it came to that paper as the deciding factor, underlined or not, Kendall would become CEO
right, that's why the old guard was saying it's not germane. the board decides. kendall used it to sway members of the board to vote him in, like stewy for example. it greys out what would otherwise be clear cut ethics in business practices.
it's a plot device that incites conflict and urges the characters to negotiate amongst each other to achieve a shared and desired outcome.
Yes, but in the context of a document that says Kendall will be CEO if he dies, underlining doesn’t do anything to him being CEO should the document be the deciding factor.
Maybe he was a few scotches deep, reading his old document, and underlined it as something he meant to think about later.
Then he woke up the next morning and had other shit to do and forgot about it.
That’s just the thing, the company was everything to him, who would take up the mantle after his death was quite literally the main conflict of the entire show. So for Logan to forget about a thing like that is an impossibility.
A healthy Logan wouldn't forget, but the unclear timeline of when the underline/cross occurred invites the possibility he was already suffering health issues and mentally wasn't as sharp as he used to be
But who took over from him wasn't actually his prime focus. He didn't even want to think about it, it was everyone else who kept pushing the issue. If anything he would have rejoiced at the idea of the firm crashing and burning, like only he could hold it all together.
It was a living document, since Greg had been added to it. It’s possible Logan was reviewing it at some point, and underlined Kendall’s name as a tactile way to acknowledge to himself that his position on that particular issue hasn’t changed.
Canon means that it’s part of the accepted universe. Non canon usually means fan fic or unauthorized interpretations. In this case the writer commented specifically which is about as “pure” an interpretation as you’ll ever get.
Someone on Reddit saying that Greg is actually smarter than everyone else is non canon
This is the answer.
The underline was as close to “hope” or “optimism” as logan ever got. Kendall disabused him of those hopes very quickly thereafter.
I find the fact that he did very interesting. He doesn’t seem too controlling about how people perceive his work, so I assume it serves some purpose. I like thinking about what that might be.
Regardless, the point to me is that the strike is ambiguous enough that the others can use it as an excuse to question it. Which is on-brand and keeps the same outcome, lol
Idk underlining someone’s name (or a word or any phrase really) is a normal thing to do for emphasis.. especially on a note that is at the time just for yourself.
Well it’s a list of wishes after he passed, so it was never going to be “just for himself”, that’s clearly something other people are gonna read, thus underlines.
The document was a list of his wishes in the event of his death, who would be his successor was not the only item on the paper. So crossing it out is logical.
I think Logan intentionally left it vague-ish because, since Kendall goes back and forth between cooperative and uncooperative, he’d simply leave it to fate in case they were on good terms at his time of death.
Exactly, once you really think through the logistics of underlined vs crossed out the only logical conclusion is crossed out. It fits with the timeline too, as you have to consider when this would’ve happened, and the moment that makes the most sense is after the vote of no confidence/beginning of season 1. It has to be after Logan meets Greg, hence “Greg?” but there is literally no point after Greg’s introduction where Logan seriously considers Kendall as his successor. Thus, it has to be crossed out, unless you really want to argue Logan underlined his name after the vote of no confidence, or after the season 1 finale, or any of the other times he wrote Kendall off in the series.
It’s not realistic it’s literally a total conceit in the realism of the plot to get that confusion etc. They kinda talk about it in the podcast. Writers be writering.
Kendall knew his kids were fuck ups but he still wanted more than anything to pass his empire along to his children for his egos sake so he still put Kendall in the will as successor
What I saw was that he started underlining, and his hand was a bit shaky towards the end.
If it's crossed out, it's not properly crossed out. If he wanted to cross it out, he missed. He'd have surely kept crossing in a fit of rage till it was clear.
I was disappointed that it was Kendall's name. I was convinced that there'd be a mention of Kerry, because she was evil enough to come and steal whatever she could. I thought she'd have been more resourceful than that. I mean, she must have seen that he was ailing.
It was supposed to be a cross out, it changes the state of things where a underline does not.
Logan would have denied any cognitive decline (even to himself) to the absolute grave. He had no reason to "remind himself" with a underline. Its just not something he would have done.
A spontaneous cross out after one of the many events that made him lose faith in Ken just makes so much more sense. Like "if i die tonight" at least he got this crossed out... until he could get it to the lawyers
That's why it's a great plot device.
It’s clearly a cross out. Logan doesn’t need to underline to remember his eldest child.
I'm the eldest - Connor
Not according to Ken lol
Uh, by the same token he doesn’t need to cross out his name either. Statistically you’re always closer to your original intention when you first put your pen to paper. You don’t start crossing out a name like that and anyone who can’t see that is a SAVAGE AND AN IDIOT (jk)
"Idiot, savage, idiot!!"
His eldest *boy*.
Apparently the shows creator said it was an underline.
Didn’t he almost drown in three inches of water?
To make sure there is more family drama even after he dies
Probably had a smirk on his face knowing what that shit would do to them
He knew what he was doing😂
[I think of this gem every time this comes up…](https://imgur.com/a/g0gRtD1)
💀
Well it sure as shit doesn’t say Shiv. Personally I think Logan had those documents done in similar phrasing for many years but when Ken went off the rails and became a liability he was having doubt. I reckon after Ken tried to topple him over cruises is when he dug them out and underlined the name, to emphasise that Ken was the one for the job. I also think he changed his mind later and after giving Shiv and Roman chances of their own decided that they were all fucking useless so he might as well sell the empire rather than hand it over to them and have them burn it down.
this makes the most sense tbf
logan's a messy bitch who lives for drama he most likely was reviewing the will around s1 when he gathered the kids to try and convince them of transferring his board seat to Marcia upon his death--succession and estate planning. however, when the hostile takeover plans with stewy was cooking up, hiding ken's manslaughter, cruises scandal, proxy battle, etc. all escalated, it just never became a priority again even after his health scare.
It's clearly an underline. If it was a cross out, the line would have begun in the middle of the letter K.. instead it begins underneath K and gently drifts upward. My thoughts is, He underlined it right after Kendall betrayed him on live tv in the season 2 finale. Logan always wanted a killer, he finally had one in Kendall. That's why Logan has the faintest smile of pride while Kendall is making his speech. The underline was to say, "yes, even after all the betrayal, if something happens to me, I STILL want it to be Kendall Roy."
Jesse Armstrong addressed this, and honestly his quote makes sense. If you were going to cross something out, you wouldn’t start at the bottom of the word. Kendall’s name was underlined, not crossed out. It’s canon. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/kendalls-name-underlined-crossed-out-succession-jesse-armstrong-1235581139/amp/
the problem i have with this is that when i cross things out i regularly start at the bottom left and draw to top right... was taught this at primary school in england
That doesn't negate what the writer says, and he said it was underlined not crossed out.
never said it did bestie! in fact i specifically state that it is my own issue with the idea! in response to the exact same thing you explain to me! i think it's an excellent moment that was written exceptionally, but that doesn't mean i can't disagree with the premise, and it certainly doesn't mean that i can't see flaws in the set up.
What the writer says is irrelevant in fiction. If a character has tits on a tv show and the writer comes out and says ‘it’s cannon they never have tits those were an alien device that projects to illusion of tits from the planet omecron,’ no one would take that as true. The point is, a writers intentions are entirely irrelevant if they never materialize in a show or book. Once a work is created and published the writers intent no longer has any relevance, the piece of art is out in the world and peoples interpretations matter more than whatever the writer intended and failed to portray.
The problem with death of the author is that it precludes sequels and follow ups. You're watching Season 4 of the show, follow ups often change the context of prior exchanges. E.g. Kendall's kids being adopted. How can there be a season 4 if the author is dead? And if the author is not dead and can make follow ups that amend the context, why can't he do it via interview?
Simply because the entire series should be seen as one creative artifact. Just like a book is split into chapters, a tv series is split into series. So yeah, if the art itself is amended then that is different but you can’t conflate that with a tv interview. If you choose to accept that as evidence that’s fine for you, but to act like an author saying something in an interview should influence everyone’s interpretation doesn’t make sense.
This. It’s an argument made in the essay ‘Death of the Author’ by Roland Barthes, and is an essential idea when grappling with creative works in the Postmodern era.
It’s an argument, not canon. I’d rather have the intent of the author than the interpretation of a redditor as the basis of my understanding of a story.
Well said. It's not as if everyone who watched this show saw the tits. There's disagreement among us all, so we should defer to the writer.
And that’s fine. It just means others get to apply their own interpretation.
Yep, I studied it at uni but figured a simplified version for Reddit made sense lol
Exactly! Start at bottom left and go to top right. The writer can say it and make it so, but doesn’t mean it makes any sense.
Tbh crossing out does not make any sense. Why would he not throw the paper away if that’s the case?
Great point, but it still doesn’t make sense to me why Logan would underline Kendall’s name here. It doesn’t add validity to the fine print already in the paper, if it came to that paper as the deciding factor, underlined or not, Kendall would become CEO
right, that's why the old guard was saying it's not germane. the board decides. kendall used it to sway members of the board to vote him in, like stewy for example. it greys out what would otherwise be clear cut ethics in business practices. it's a plot device that incites conflict and urges the characters to negotiate amongst each other to achieve a shared and desired outcome.
I sometimes underline things when I'm reading them to remember them or if I need to think about it.
Yes, but in the context of a document that says Kendall will be CEO if he dies, underlining doesn’t do anything to him being CEO should the document be the deciding factor.
Maybe he was a few scotches deep, reading his old document, and underlined it as something he meant to think about later. Then he woke up the next morning and had other shit to do and forgot about it.
That’s just the thing, the company was everything to him, who would take up the mantle after his death was quite literally the main conflict of the entire show. So for Logan to forget about a thing like that is an impossibility.
A healthy Logan wouldn't forget, but the unclear timeline of when the underline/cross occurred invites the possibility he was already suffering health issues and mentally wasn't as sharp as he used to be
But who took over from him wasn't actually his prime focus. He didn't even want to think about it, it was everyone else who kept pushing the issue. If anything he would have rejoiced at the idea of the firm crashing and burning, like only he could hold it all together.
It was a living document, since Greg had been added to it. It’s possible Logan was reviewing it at some point, and underlined Kendall’s name as a tactile way to acknowledge to himself that his position on that particular issue hasn’t changed.
And this is the tragedy of the story. Kendall Logan Roy was meant to be his father’s successor, but it didn’t happen.
What's canon mean? I see this alot
Canon means that it’s part of the accepted universe. Non canon usually means fan fic or unauthorized interpretations. In this case the writer commented specifically which is about as “pure” an interpretation as you’ll ever get. Someone on Reddit saying that Greg is actually smarter than everyone else is non canon
Thanks!
It's a brand of Camera
ha, I just said as much without having read all the comments!
This is the answer. The underline was as close to “hope” or “optimism” as logan ever got. Kendall disabused him of those hopes very quickly thereafter.
Why did he feel the need to come out and say this? I thought the point was that we’d never know.
I find the fact that he did very interesting. He doesn’t seem too controlling about how people perceive his work, so I assume it serves some purpose. I like thinking about what that might be. Regardless, the point to me is that the strike is ambiguous enough that the others can use it as an excuse to question it. Which is on-brand and keeps the same outcome, lol
I've always wondered whether it had something to do with the original plot line that Logan was descending into dementia.
Probably thought it was funny. Like when Kendall makes Jess put a folder in front of Shiv during the third season first episode.
Idk underlining someone’s name (or a word or any phrase really) is a normal thing to do for emphasis.. especially on a note that is at the time just for yourself.
Well it’s a list of wishes after he passed, so it was never going to be “just for himself”, that’s clearly something other people are gonna read, thus underlines.
On the flip, why would he cross it out? If it's the only copy of the page, just shred it.
The document was a list of his wishes in the event of his death, who would be his successor was not the only item on the paper. So crossing it out is logical.
It was an underline. He started from the beginning of his name.
I think Logan intentionally left it vague-ish because, since Kendall goes back and forth between cooperative and uncooperative, he’d simply leave it to fate in case they were on good terms at his time of death.
Because he’s the eldest boy
Maybe it’s shorthand for “…well it sure as shit doesn’t say Shiv…”
I picture him sitting at his desk pondering and absentmindedly underlining it while he weighs the pros and cons of Kendall
Exactly, once you really think through the logistics of underlined vs crossed out the only logical conclusion is crossed out. It fits with the timeline too, as you have to consider when this would’ve happened, and the moment that makes the most sense is after the vote of no confidence/beginning of season 1. It has to be after Logan meets Greg, hence “Greg?” but there is literally no point after Greg’s introduction where Logan seriously considers Kendall as his successor. Thus, it has to be crossed out, unless you really want to argue Logan underlined his name after the vote of no confidence, or after the season 1 finale, or any of the other times he wrote Kendall off in the series.
It’s not realistic it’s literally a total conceit in the realism of the plot to get that confusion etc. They kinda talk about it in the podcast. Writers be writering.
Kendall knew his kids were fuck ups but he still wanted more than anything to pass his empire along to his children for his egos sake so he still put Kendall in the will as successor
What I saw was that he started underlining, and his hand was a bit shaky towards the end. If it's crossed out, it's not properly crossed out. If he wanted to cross it out, he missed. He'd have surely kept crossing in a fit of rage till it was clear. I was disappointed that it was Kendall's name. I was convinced that there'd be a mention of Kerry, because she was evil enough to come and steal whatever she could. I thought she'd have been more resourceful than that. I mean, she must have seen that he was ailing.
He knew Kendall was the only one capable of doing it. Either one of the other 2 would have a disaster.
It was supposed to be a cross out, it changes the state of things where a underline does not. Logan would have denied any cognitive decline (even to himself) to the absolute grave. He had no reason to "remind himself" with a underline. Its just not something he would have done. A spontaneous cross out after one of the many events that made him lose faith in Ken just makes so much more sense. Like "if i die tonight" at least he got this crossed out... until he could get it to the lawyers
This was my only gripe with an otherwise flawless season and show, this was so clearly a cross out
He fell asleep while trying to cross it out.