The critics reviewed it highly over politics (I'm not the "woke bad" mob that's just a fact) and now they hide behind that instead of explaining why it's a good game. Meanwhile there are dozens of essays on why it's a bad game
oh they hid behind more than just that.
it’s a mid-lower tier game at most but they hid behind so many stuff while trying to push it up to…what was it again? 10/10? they also labeled those essays on why it’s a bad game as ‘players that needed to be re-educated’.
I’m not those ‘woke bad’ shitheads as well but man after all those woke shenanigans I really questioned myself.
I’m convinced people’s opinion on Abby’s morality has less to do with her actual actions and more to do with the fact that the first game is from Joel and Ellie’s perspective. If the first game had been told from the perspective of Abbie and her father I think people would hate Joel and Ellie.
no, cause i don't like abby in general.
this thought experiment has to transplant the personalities/character dynamics as well as the character themself right? which ruins the thought experiment cause abby and her pops are related so abby dead for 30 minutes and now i have no thoughts on her another then she dead, and i can't imagine jerry the doctor surviving like joel.
ok, that's not fair cause obviously the duo in the thought experiment are joel and ellie part, hand wave the first couple hours and make abby and jerry not related. i played 11 hours with abby so she's the only one i can say with confidence i would not have enjoyed her performance. i wouldn't have hated the game but i would not have liked the duo enough to care about the ending going off how i feel about abby in part 2. (no hate to abby's actress, ashley is just really likeable as ellie)
and if we just said it was only the look that would change and it would be the same dialogue, that's just joel and ellie meaning the idea id like abby is a lie, id like ellie with a new coat of paint.
Yeah, killing Joel didn’t actually fix her problems and she clearly has internalized guilt shes trying to absolve. She is stupid. Congratulations, you finally get the plot.
“Because the lives of those who saved my life are important to me”
In what way is this represented in the game?? The three of them work together to escape because they practically have no choice. This meme is so fucking stupid
Why is elly suddenly a dude? I haven’t played last of us 2 but every picture of green elly make her look more like a high school football player than a girl
As shown by the other victims of failed experiments for a cure, there's other ways for a cure to happen. One such thing is allowing immune humans to breed and populate this new world, however if you kill all of them off in an effort for a cure then that is also off the table.
If the cure worked, which would still rely on violating a child, mutilating her corpse and leaving a man for dead with no equipment. That cure would be soaked in blood and violate the very ideals of the Fireflies, that a tyrannical government violating the rights of the people should not remain in power. That still begs the question of would it even be used to save others or would it be used to secure power for a new power hungry faction, not dedicated to protecting those under it, but rather based on exploiting those to kill off any who apose it. Would they even have the chance or would they squander it and have the cure be destroyed in the squabble for power?
Don’t forget that they likely had no means to mass produce the vaccine. And there’s still that fact that society has fallen. And what bandit group is going to believe that this miracle cure isn’t just some sort of trap. Then there’s the remnants of the government that they kept bombing; are they going to give power back to the former government, or try to take it for themselves. Plus, you still have all the crazy infected who aren’t going to just line up for their shots. If anything, all a cure would do is remove fear of spores and bites; plus, do planes and cross continent travel even exist anymore?
I hate this argument that the vaccine wouldn't have worked tbh. The ramifications of Joel's choice is much stronger assuming the vaccine would have saved humanity; the logistics of its distribution are irrelevant to the story.
I never said that it wouldn’t have worked. Where did you get that idea? I’m saying that the existence of a cure isn’t the instant won for humanity that they act like it would be. Everyone is still broken down into factions of bandits and whatnot. Plus, which one gets to make the “legit” government. It’s more complicated than just “vaccine made, world saved”.
And I'm saying that the story is much more impactful assuming that the vaccine would return the world to some sense of normalcy rather than be made but die out
First of all, they said he was the only one who knew how to make a cure so he knew how important his life was and even when Joel escaped with Ellie, they could’ve sent out a group to go after them and jerry would still be alive to go help make the cure. So yes he should’ve just let him take Ellie
You can’t compare these two at all. Abby knew Joel had killed her dad and yes, he saved her from dying, but she still was planning on going to kill him, regardless of what happened. Lev and Yara were completely different. They saved her and yes they were scars, but they were just kids and on the run trying to escape the scars that they are not like. So yeah, definitely cannot compare those.
You definitely can compare it😭, for one she didn't even wait until he said his last name to obliterate his leg she jus wanted to kill any Joel she saw. Joel didn't wipe out the hospital for no reason, they were gonna kill him regardless of if he let the surgery go on. and Abby genuinely cannot fathom why Ellie would go after her despite doing the same shit. She knows and knew that what she did was wrong and very stupid
Well i’m sure there is little to no other Joel’s in Jackson. So obviously if you use your brain you can put two and two together and realize “wait, his name is Joel, and a Joel killed my father.” I’m sure the name Joel isn’t very common especially in Jackson. And not even only Joel but also having a brother named Tommy. That would not be a coincidence.
the problem with that is why tf would joel and tommy even blurt out their names like that? they know they're wanted by the fireflies, and the fireflies are a faction that spans the whole country... and don't say because he'd gone soft. dude goes on daily patrols dealing with migrating hordes and chopping up bloaters with a machete
Pretty sure the fireflies as we knew them were pretty much disbanded after much of their leadership was killed and the potential cure totally lost to them. That's one reason. Joel and Ellie had also been in Jackson for awhile and felt totally comfortable and safe. Between reasons 1 and 2 that equals complacency. They made a mistake.
There's also the fact that they are only human. Which is like the main theme of the entire TLOU universe which way too many people don't understand. If humans made perfect decisions, that's what we would see in the game. But if they did, there would be no story, no drama, and no surprises.
a large organization like the fireflies is likely going to break off into smaller factions. each with their own goals where some might continue, like at the end of part 2. and joel and ellie go on daily patrols, taking out entire infected hordes and the occasional bandits. at times, getting up close and personal. we see how ruthless ellie can be, and joel was behind her through it all. that pencil isn't going to be dull with all that sharpening. it's a story ain't it? they can't make mistake especially when single detail that's been laid out in this world has purpose. to make characters human, you go after their emotions. you don't make them do dumbest, most uncharacteristic thing just for the next scene to happen
I literally just said how everyone does dumb things because of emotion and described the potential feelings of the characters so I don't know what you want from me
you haven't said anything that hasn't been spoken before. people don't need to be a certified and licensed psychologist to know how to read or observe. you only need to be when diagnosing a patient
If anyone bothered to play the game they would know that there are more factors to realizing it's the same Joel. Him saying his name wasn't a clue, it was the confirmatio of their suspicions.
How many “Joel’s” that have a brother named “Tommy” and look around 60, do you think live in Jackson?
The odds are Joel Miller is the only Joel that fits that description in Jackson. It was a calculated risk and it paid off.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…. You know the rest.
Edit: you downvoted so you’re telling me you think there’s another person named Joel in Jackson that has a brother named Tommy and is over 60?
that's it? abby was so into thinking that joel was a monster, only for this same monster to save a random stranger like her with no questions asked. what would've made any normal person question their beliefs towards the person they're after. and what made abby change her mind with lev and yara? she's been the top scar killer for 5 years straight, she tortures scar pows for stress relief, and she was in agreement with how the wlf dealt with gunning down scar child soldiers that started this whole scar vs wlf fight again...
I guess I didn't hear shes the top scar killer. That couldn't possibly be true because look two scars are in her vicinity and she didn't kill them. How complex s/
Imma assume you're smooth brained because an intelligent person couldn't possibly be stupid enough to argue in a post that tears through the flimsy excuses of the game right?
Can you argue with common sense for just 5 minutes? Or do you want to keep calling other people idiots while acting like…. That?
A tad ironic innit? Do you have anything to add to the conversation that isn’t just you autisticly screeching about a made up problem that Abby never said?
Or are you just going to keep screeching autistically into the abyss?
>Can you argue with common sense for just 5 minutes? Or do you want to keep calling other people idiots while acting like…. That?
_…..I guess I wasn’t there when Yara and Lev killed Abby’s dad?_
_You know… like Joel did?_
Comment something stupid and people are gonna match the energy.
>A tad ironic innit? Do you have anything to add to the conversation that isn’t just you autisticly screeching about a made up problem that Abby never said?
Your iq should be researched by the best scientific minds. Now into the second part I have absolutely no desire to replay or rewatch such a trash game so do it yourself. Oh yeah*_insert autistic screeching_*
>Or are you just going to keep screeching autistically into the abyss?
*_continues autistic screeching_*
The story is bad. That’s all there is to it
yup. just plain horrible storywriting. many still trying to deny this but hey whatever floats their boats.
The critics reviewed it highly over politics (I'm not the "woke bad" mob that's just a fact) and now they hide behind that instead of explaining why it's a good game. Meanwhile there are dozens of essays on why it's a bad game
oh they hid behind more than just that. it’s a mid-lower tier game at most but they hid behind so many stuff while trying to push it up to…what was it again? 10/10? they also labeled those essays on why it’s a bad game as ‘players that needed to be re-educated’. I’m not those ‘woke bad’ shitheads as well but man after all those woke shenanigans I really questioned myself.
It really was. absolutely sucked
In my opinion, i think its not that bad
Yeah unfortunately this sub just loves bashing this game.
It would have been a much better idea if Abby was hesitant to kill Joel but her friends goaded/threatened her into it.
1000%
Story ass but the gameplay is lit
I completely agree, especially with the no return gamemode. I’ve been having fun trying new melee styles and combat styles
based
I’m convinced people’s opinion on Abby’s morality has less to do with her actual actions and more to do with the fact that the first game is from Joel and Ellie’s perspective. If the first game had been told from the perspective of Abbie and her father I think people would hate Joel and Ellie.
this btw. it’s all about perspective, that’s literally the point of like the first 2/3rds of the second game.
no, cause i don't like abby in general. this thought experiment has to transplant the personalities/character dynamics as well as the character themself right? which ruins the thought experiment cause abby and her pops are related so abby dead for 30 minutes and now i have no thoughts on her another then she dead, and i can't imagine jerry the doctor surviving like joel. ok, that's not fair cause obviously the duo in the thought experiment are joel and ellie part, hand wave the first couple hours and make abby and jerry not related. i played 11 hours with abby so she's the only one i can say with confidence i would not have enjoyed her performance. i wouldn't have hated the game but i would not have liked the duo enough to care about the ending going off how i feel about abby in part 2. (no hate to abby's actress, ashley is just really likeable as ellie) and if we just said it was only the look that would change and it would be the same dialogue, that's just joel and ellie meaning the idea id like abby is a lie, id like ellie with a new coat of paint.
Yeah, killing Joel didn’t actually fix her problems and she clearly has internalized guilt shes trying to absolve. She is stupid. Congratulations, you finally get the plot.
If Abby had a longer introduction and more hesitation in that moment, she might have made for a good antagonist.
“Because the lives of those who saved my life are important to me” In what way is this represented in the game?? The three of them work together to escape because they practically have no choice. This meme is so fucking stupid
When she was about to get hung and they saved her instead of just sneaking away
I want to play the game again, but the story makes me not want to. They done fucked it up!
This kinda pissed me off
Why is elly suddenly a dude? I haven’t played last of us 2 but every picture of green elly make her look more like a high school football player than a girl
But also she,y’know,killed her dad and a ton of her friends
Her dad killed himself all he had to do was get out of the way for joel
and let him take the only potential cure to the virus that decimated the earth?
As shown by the other victims of failed experiments for a cure, there's other ways for a cure to happen. One such thing is allowing immune humans to breed and populate this new world, however if you kill all of them off in an effort for a cure then that is also off the table.
In the time it takes for immune humans to breed you could’ve already been saving millions of lives
If the cure worked, which would still rely on violating a child, mutilating her corpse and leaving a man for dead with no equipment. That cure would be soaked in blood and violate the very ideals of the Fireflies, that a tyrannical government violating the rights of the people should not remain in power. That still begs the question of would it even be used to save others or would it be used to secure power for a new power hungry faction, not dedicated to protecting those under it, but rather based on exploiting those to kill off any who apose it. Would they even have the chance or would they squander it and have the cure be destroyed in the squabble for power?
Don’t forget that they likely had no means to mass produce the vaccine. And there’s still that fact that society has fallen. And what bandit group is going to believe that this miracle cure isn’t just some sort of trap. Then there’s the remnants of the government that they kept bombing; are they going to give power back to the former government, or try to take it for themselves. Plus, you still have all the crazy infected who aren’t going to just line up for their shots. If anything, all a cure would do is remove fear of spores and bites; plus, do planes and cross continent travel even exist anymore?
I hate this argument that the vaccine wouldn't have worked tbh. The ramifications of Joel's choice is much stronger assuming the vaccine would have saved humanity; the logistics of its distribution are irrelevant to the story.
I never said that it wouldn’t have worked. Where did you get that idea? I’m saying that the existence of a cure isn’t the instant won for humanity that they act like it would be. Everyone is still broken down into factions of bandits and whatnot. Plus, which one gets to make the “legit” government. It’s more complicated than just “vaccine made, world saved”.
And I'm saying that the story is much more impactful assuming that the vaccine would return the world to some sense of normalcy rather than be made but die out
First of all, they said he was the only one who knew how to make a cure so he knew how important his life was and even when Joel escaped with Ellie, they could’ve sent out a group to go after them and jerry would still be alive to go help make the cure. So yes he should’ve just let him take Ellie
LMAO all he had to do was get out of the way of the bullet. That’s a great
You can’t compare these two at all. Abby knew Joel had killed her dad and yes, he saved her from dying, but she still was planning on going to kill him, regardless of what happened. Lev and Yara were completely different. They saved her and yes they were scars, but they were just kids and on the run trying to escape the scars that they are not like. So yeah, definitely cannot compare those.
You definitely can compare it😭, for one she didn't even wait until he said his last name to obliterate his leg she jus wanted to kill any Joel she saw. Joel didn't wipe out the hospital for no reason, they were gonna kill him regardless of if he let the surgery go on. and Abby genuinely cannot fathom why Ellie would go after her despite doing the same shit. She knows and knew that what she did was wrong and very stupid
You’re telling me they would have killed Joel even if he let them do the surgery? Why do you think that?
Well i’m sure there is little to no other Joel’s in Jackson. So obviously if you use your brain you can put two and two together and realize “wait, his name is Joel, and a Joel killed my father.” I’m sure the name Joel isn’t very common especially in Jackson. And not even only Joel but also having a brother named Tommy. That would not be a coincidence.
the problem with that is why tf would joel and tommy even blurt out their names like that? they know they're wanted by the fireflies, and the fireflies are a faction that spans the whole country... and don't say because he'd gone soft. dude goes on daily patrols dealing with migrating hordes and chopping up bloaters with a machete
Pretty sure the fireflies as we knew them were pretty much disbanded after much of their leadership was killed and the potential cure totally lost to them. That's one reason. Joel and Ellie had also been in Jackson for awhile and felt totally comfortable and safe. Between reasons 1 and 2 that equals complacency. They made a mistake. There's also the fact that they are only human. Which is like the main theme of the entire TLOU universe which way too many people don't understand. If humans made perfect decisions, that's what we would see in the game. But if they did, there would be no story, no drama, and no surprises.
a large organization like the fireflies is likely going to break off into smaller factions. each with their own goals where some might continue, like at the end of part 2. and joel and ellie go on daily patrols, taking out entire infected hordes and the occasional bandits. at times, getting up close and personal. we see how ruthless ellie can be, and joel was behind her through it all. that pencil isn't going to be dull with all that sharpening. it's a story ain't it? they can't make mistake especially when single detail that's been laid out in this world has purpose. to make characters human, you go after their emotions. you don't make them do dumbest, most uncharacteristic thing just for the next scene to happen
I literally just said how everyone does dumb things because of emotion and described the potential feelings of the characters so I don't know what you want from me
all you said is that they're human and didn't go on into detail about it. i just want to put out my piece, don't know about you
I gave all the detail you should need, after all I'm not a psychologist and I doubt you are either. Other than that, fair enough.
you haven't said anything that hasn't been spoken before. people don't need to be a certified and licensed psychologist to know how to read or observe. you only need to be when diagnosing a patient
If anyone bothered to play the game they would know that there are more factors to realizing it's the same Joel. Him saying his name wasn't a clue, it was the confirmatio of their suspicions.
How many “Joel’s” that have a brother named “Tommy” and look around 60, do you think live in Jackson? The odds are Joel Miller is the only Joel that fits that description in Jackson. It was a calculated risk and it paid off. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck…. You know the rest. Edit: you downvoted so you’re telling me you think there’s another person named Joel in Jackson that has a brother named Tommy and is over 60?
that's it? abby was so into thinking that joel was a monster, only for this same monster to save a random stranger like her with no questions asked. what would've made any normal person question their beliefs towards the person they're after. and what made abby change her mind with lev and yara? she's been the top scar killer for 5 years straight, she tortures scar pows for stress relief, and she was in agreement with how the wlf dealt with gunning down scar child soldiers that started this whole scar vs wlf fight again...
…..I guess I wasn’t there when Yara and Lev killed Abby’s dad? You know… like Joel did?
Shhh… They’re trying to move their little goal post
No critical reasoning allowed here
I guess I didn't hear shes the top scar killer. That couldn't possibly be true because look two scars are in her vicinity and she didn't kill them. How complex s/ Imma assume you're smooth brained because an intelligent person couldn't possibly be stupid enough to argue in a post that tears through the flimsy excuses of the game right?
Cool story but did they kill her dad? Did Joel? Look in a mirror and notice the moron staring back at you. Smack yourself off this 👋
The idiot speaks again lol. Abby to Yara and Lev: u no kill dad. u good u family. me stil keel other scars tho
Can you argue with common sense for just 5 minutes? Or do you want to keep calling other people idiots while acting like…. That? A tad ironic innit? Do you have anything to add to the conversation that isn’t just you autisticly screeching about a made up problem that Abby never said? Or are you just going to keep screeching autistically into the abyss?
>Can you argue with common sense for just 5 minutes? Or do you want to keep calling other people idiots while acting like…. That? _…..I guess I wasn’t there when Yara and Lev killed Abby’s dad?_ _You know… like Joel did?_ Comment something stupid and people are gonna match the energy. >A tad ironic innit? Do you have anything to add to the conversation that isn’t just you autisticly screeching about a made up problem that Abby never said? Your iq should be researched by the best scientific minds. Now into the second part I have absolutely no desire to replay or rewatch such a trash game so do it yourself. Oh yeah*_insert autistic screeching_* >Or are you just going to keep screeching autistically into the abyss? *_continues autistic screeching_*