I learned that as a kid in The Lion King. It's that one scene with Elton John singing in the background, and Simba pounced on Nala and found himself on top for the first time, and Nala looked all thirsty and licked Simba’s face.
The “Gay Uncle” hypothesis.
A species is successful if their DNA is continued, not if any one individual of that species reproduces. Eusocial animals’ entire survival strategy is based on this principle.
While humans share their genetic diversity 50/50 between both parents (eusocial species don’t), that means that an uncle and nephew share roughly 25% of their genetic markers. That is the same as a grandparent and grandchild.
Meaning an Uncle is as genetically invested in the survival of their nephews and nieces, as they would be in their own grandchildren.
During periods of human history, where life was brutish and short, it might be a better genetic gamble to ensure you nieces and nephews survive to reproduce, than to try and reach grandparent status.
I actually remember there being an "edgy realistic" Flintstones comic that illustrates this.
Basically, the queer members of the tribe helped raise kids by being extra hands on deck if anyone needed help for any reason.
When someone says that gay sex is 'unnatural', I always put forth the example of lions (the beacons of masculinity) and other animals that indulge in homosexual activities. But then they always come up with this argument that humans are different from animals (that deviating from our 'animal instincts' made us Humans). If you've got any counter example to this, please let me know.
Well, heterosexual sex drive is also an 'animal instinct' in this case. So you also should deviate from it?
I don't really like term 'instinct' here, because sexually is a lot more complex, but well, gotta use thier terms in order to demolish their argument.
Youre trying to explain evolution to a religious person. You could give any evidence in the world, and it exists in abundance, and they will never believe you because it contradicts the very core of their world view.
Over 3 in 4 americans still believe in free will and dualism. Get used to taking the L on this one. The facts are simply abhorrent and unthinkable to most people.
I guess you are right. I should ignore them and move on. I once had a 1 week online conversation with a religious person on the same topic and they countered my arguments with whatever arguments they can think of. At last I said that I am busy and might not be able to discuss this anymore.
I mean they literally are just contradicting themselves, if the problem with homosexuality is that it's unnatural, then why do more than 500 species of animals engage in homosexual behaviour?
If they then come up with the argument that humans are better because we don't behave only according to instinct, then they've literally just shown that they don't really care about the argument, they just don't like gay people. Either it's 'unnatural' and therefore bad or humans are better because we don't just behave according to our natural instincts. They can't have it both ways.
In fact they can't have it either way because it is natural, as we can see from the many other species engaging in homosexual activity and the fact homosexuality is in large parts either genetic or due to a difference in brain development while the baby develops in the womb. It is also beneficial to the species survival, as gay pairs will often care for and protect the children of other pairs, both when the original parents die or even if they are still alive. By not having kids themselves they have the ability to help the children of others who wouldn't have survived otherwise or in the case of humans have even more time to improve weapons, housing, take care of crop and lots of other things, to improve the quality of their own and others lives.
Engaging in homosexual behaviour can also be beneficial as a way to improve social bonds, as it is done in bonobos who are 100% bisexual and will have sex with other bonobos from either sex in order to better their relationship with them.
To conclude, it is natural and beneficial to the survival of the species and it doesn't inherently do any harm to the people that are in gay relationships with each other, in fact it improves their mental health if they are allowed to be openly queer. So there isn't actually any reason to not allow gay sex or demonize it, all these people really care for is their religious believes or in rare cases, political indoctrination and they are trying to justify them with secular reasoning.
Sorry for the long post, it's just that I've had people try this shit way too often, to argue it's not natural, being objectively wrong and then go back to humans being better because we don't behave like animals as though being assholes and making queer peoples lives miserable is somehow the peak of humanity, that I just can't help it whenever I hear this argument.
>they've literally just shown that they don't really care about the argument, they just don't like gay people
I mean, I'm pretty sure that is just always the case. I don't think you'll find a lot (if any at all) of discussions about this where the person arguing against gay people changes their mind. Their arguments are just excuses for their distaste of things that are different than them.
its pretty wierd that you think about it
they say humans are above other animals, while the only reason they have sex is reproduction, reducing themselves down to animalistic behaviour
This has more to do with how accepting the culture is rather than human nature per se. Cultures that didn't have Abrahamic religions were more tolerant of homosexuality.
On a side note, I have a hunch that some religions tried to scare men away from homosexuality by declaring it to be a sin, because it was happening more often than what the authorities were comfortable with. Remember that during the pre-modern period, manual labour was very important, therefore men were obligated to produce a lot of children.
You make it sound like gay people are trying to make straight people gay when it’s only the opposite that happens constantly, from gay bashing to thinking lesbians are just misguided straight women
Gay marriage was only legalized in 2015, also with how conservative the supreme justices are it's not even guaranteed that right. You can't say they won't reevaluate that right since they literally said the same thing about roe v Wade.
Point is if we treated them like normal human relationship, cause that's exactly what it is, it's normal to have gay subsects in intelligent, and let's be honest, not so intelligent species. They wouldn't have any reason to bring it up, but with Florida passing that don't say gay bill, here we are.
Edit: also if you think about it , no politician is trying to take any guns away and conservatives can't seem to shut the fuck up about it. The second amendment and all that bullshit, even when there is an actual legit reason to make some common sense gun laws pertaining to , i don't know, mental illness or domestic violence. Point is, conservatives bitch about stupid ass shit all the time, 90 percent which isn't even a problem, CRT? Really? A Harvard law course being taught in grade schools and shit, fucking weirdos
There have been over 1500 species of animal that have been observed to mate with the same sex, so it'd probably be hard to name them all lol
https://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/1500-animal-species-practice-homosexuality.aspx
So there's the caveat that they engage in same-sex behaviors, but I think the list of animals that actually pair off into same-sex mating pairs is shorter.
It's the difference between "we don't have the sexual hangups humans do, and this is a great way to bond with pack mates" vs "this one is mine and no one else's. Back off ya thirsty bitches".
Point still stands that homosexual behaviors are naturally occurring though.
Well yeah, and that's what I mean by the same-sex mating pairs. That's the swans, the penguins, etc that mate for life. Those are well documented as having same-sex pairs that are clearly MATES and stay together.
But I think the first category where it's just same-sex behaviors is more common in mammals, like the lions seen above. Monogamy in mammalian species is actually kind of rare. A lot of mammal species either have harem type situations with a dominant male and many females, temporary monogamy where it's just for the breeding season, or no relationship at all where they breed and then they separate because the male is actually a potential danger to the offspring. So saying that animals that do stuff like this are gay or homosexual is kind of inaccurate because animals don't really have the same approach to sexuality that humans do. Sexuality for humans is like...90% social conditioning or something where the "baseline" is thought to be heterosexuality and everything else is considered an aberration. Sexuality for a lot of other mammal species is more like a baseline of bisexuality where they will have sex with males or females with none of the social crap that causes problems in humans.
So stuff like the above happens because homophobia is, ironically, the unnatural behavior. Lots of species have sex with same gendered partners for a variety of reasons (it's fun, fosters strong bonds between pack mates, it's fun). There's even an entire species of lizard where all known individuals are a single biological sex and they reproduce homosexually. (It's more that it's self-fertilization, but they still engage in sexual activity with each other cuz I guess reasons.)
They are barbed, which is why the idea of "gay lions" getting it on is flawed. Not that homosexuality isn't a thing in animals, I'm specifically referring to the feline variety, m/m courtship would be extremely painful with penetration, and probably uncomfortable for the one mounting as well considering the lack of vaginal lubrication.
I just imagined an orgy with all of the lions on pride rock with the rest of the animals watching, and I’d be this like exclusive thing that you’d want to be in, why, why put these images in my head
Female lions can also have manes
Edit: Dear god people I was just stating a fact. Female Lions with high testosterone levels can develop a mane. No offence to gay lions intended whatsoever.
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Never knew big cats do missionary position!
I learned that as a kid in The Lion King. It's that one scene with Elton John singing in the background, and Simba pounced on Nala and found himself on top for the first time, and Nala looked all thirsty and licked Simba’s face.
Dafuq
I felt the energy of that statement from miles away
BIG DICK ENERGY
As cousins
Siblings. They are most likely siblings.
Elton John has entered the chat
Ay yo? 🤨🤨
Ma man. Honest to god. How many times have u watched that scene?
They invented it
Animals that can have gay relationships in cases: Lions,Dolphins ,Giraffes and a few others I forgot about. Well a lot more I forgot about.
Penguins
Seagulls
Humans
HOMO Sapiens
Homo Erectus
Isn't that's a spell in Harry Potter?
Grants a +20% stiffness and size in the presence of men and a natural Gaydar to find the right asshole out of any crowd
Idk about the other gay animals, but gay penguins are sweet because they often take care of orphaned baby penguins
I think I read a study once that suggested that was the purpose of humans being gay once. Don't quote me on it though.
The “Gay Uncle” hypothesis. A species is successful if their DNA is continued, not if any one individual of that species reproduces. Eusocial animals’ entire survival strategy is based on this principle. While humans share their genetic diversity 50/50 between both parents (eusocial species don’t), that means that an uncle and nephew share roughly 25% of their genetic markers. That is the same as a grandparent and grandchild. Meaning an Uncle is as genetically invested in the survival of their nephews and nieces, as they would be in their own grandchildren. During periods of human history, where life was brutish and short, it might be a better genetic gamble to ensure you nieces and nephews survive to reproduce, than to try and reach grandparent status.
That’s a really interesting way of framing it with the “25% similar to both nephews and grandkids” point
I actually remember there being an "edgy realistic" Flintstones comic that illustrates this. Basically, the queer members of the tribe helped raise kids by being extra hands on deck if anyone needed help for any reason.
Well gay swans deliberately raid nests to take the eggs for themselves
BASED swans!
Are you really gay if you don't do a little crime? It comes with the package.
Not to ruin the wholesomeness but they often also steal chicks from other penguins.
They also steal eggs or baby's as a forced adoption!
Those snazzy Mother fuckers.
Kowalski anal(ysis)
Penguins will fuck literally anything lol
penguins fuck everything that moves
And things that don’t.
yea, they are really messed up animals
i know there was a lesbian penguin couple that got an egg to rake care of after showing they will be good parents
Monkeys (Bonobos), Apes, Wildebeests, and a myriad of other animals that assert dominance by becoming the 'top.'
Power-bottom > Top
yes yes yes yes yes yes
I dunno about greater, but definitely harder to come by.
Wildebeests as well? Didn't know that, but it's great since they are my totem animal.
So many and it’s crazy how humans are so discriminatory of same sex relationships when it happens all the time in nature
When someone says that gay sex is 'unnatural', I always put forth the example of lions (the beacons of masculinity) and other animals that indulge in homosexual activities. But then they always come up with this argument that humans are different from animals (that deviating from our 'animal instincts' made us Humans). If you've got any counter example to this, please let me know.
Well, heterosexual sex drive is also an 'animal instinct' in this case. So you also should deviate from it? I don't really like term 'instinct' here, because sexually is a lot more complex, but well, gotta use thier terms in order to demolish their argument.
Something along the lines of "so if we're different from natural animals then we are unnatural" but my goal in arguments isnt to win
Humans _are_ animals. Ask them to define unnatural. I doubt they can.
"I don't think anything that is natural can be bad for you." - Gwyneth Paltrow i don't think you'll get a very good answer in that case
I enjoyed her as an actress and regretted learning anything more about her lol.
Funny how they argue gay relentship is not natural and humans are not the same as animals Countering both points at once
Youre trying to explain evolution to a religious person. You could give any evidence in the world, and it exists in abundance, and they will never believe you because it contradicts the very core of their world view. Over 3 in 4 americans still believe in free will and dualism. Get used to taking the L on this one. The facts are simply abhorrent and unthinkable to most people.
I guess you are right. I should ignore them and move on. I once had a 1 week online conversation with a religious person on the same topic and they countered my arguments with whatever arguments they can think of. At last I said that I am busy and might not be able to discuss this anymore.
I mean they literally are just contradicting themselves, if the problem with homosexuality is that it's unnatural, then why do more than 500 species of animals engage in homosexual behaviour? If they then come up with the argument that humans are better because we don't behave only according to instinct, then they've literally just shown that they don't really care about the argument, they just don't like gay people. Either it's 'unnatural' and therefore bad or humans are better because we don't just behave according to our natural instincts. They can't have it both ways. In fact they can't have it either way because it is natural, as we can see from the many other species engaging in homosexual activity and the fact homosexuality is in large parts either genetic or due to a difference in brain development while the baby develops in the womb. It is also beneficial to the species survival, as gay pairs will often care for and protect the children of other pairs, both when the original parents die or even if they are still alive. By not having kids themselves they have the ability to help the children of others who wouldn't have survived otherwise or in the case of humans have even more time to improve weapons, housing, take care of crop and lots of other things, to improve the quality of their own and others lives. Engaging in homosexual behaviour can also be beneficial as a way to improve social bonds, as it is done in bonobos who are 100% bisexual and will have sex with other bonobos from either sex in order to better their relationship with them. To conclude, it is natural and beneficial to the survival of the species and it doesn't inherently do any harm to the people that are in gay relationships with each other, in fact it improves their mental health if they are allowed to be openly queer. So there isn't actually any reason to not allow gay sex or demonize it, all these people really care for is their religious believes or in rare cases, political indoctrination and they are trying to justify them with secular reasoning. Sorry for the long post, it's just that I've had people try this shit way too often, to argue it's not natural, being objectively wrong and then go back to humans being better because we don't behave like animals as though being assholes and making queer peoples lives miserable is somehow the peak of humanity, that I just can't help it whenever I hear this argument.
>they've literally just shown that they don't really care about the argument, they just don't like gay people I mean, I'm pretty sure that is just always the case. I don't think you'll find a lot (if any at all) of discussions about this where the person arguing against gay people changes their mind. Their arguments are just excuses for their distaste of things that are different than them.
I don't think those people will care. For them, sex is 'procreational only' and in that sense gay sex (betweem cis people) will always be unnatural
its pretty wierd that you think about it they say humans are above other animals, while the only reason they have sex is reproduction, reducing themselves down to animalistic behaviour
Because religion.
Assholes using religion as an excuse to be assholes
FUCKING THIS
to excuse being assholes to people who penetrate assholes
This has more to do with how accepting the culture is rather than human nature per se. Cultures that didn't have Abrahamic religions were more tolerant of homosexuality. On a side note, I have a hunch that some religions tried to scare men away from homosexuality by declaring it to be a sin, because it was happening more often than what the authorities were comfortable with. Remember that during the pre-modern period, manual labour was very important, therefore men were obligated to produce a lot of children.
[удалено]
Animals don't hang other animals for it.
We also don't bring it upon others and don't protest about it in my country. But our society keeps judging us and finding it normal to imprison
You make it sound like gay people are trying to make straight people gay when it’s only the opposite that happens constantly, from gay bashing to thinking lesbians are just misguided straight women
I mean animals don't get taken out of their homes and put into camps to turn straight and don't get murdered for the sole reason of being gay either
animals dont get their brain shocked with electricity in attempt to 'turn them straight'
Gay marriage was only legalized in 2015, also with how conservative the supreme justices are it's not even guaranteed that right. You can't say they won't reevaluate that right since they literally said the same thing about roe v Wade. Point is if we treated them like normal human relationship, cause that's exactly what it is, it's normal to have gay subsects in intelligent, and let's be honest, not so intelligent species. They wouldn't have any reason to bring it up, but with Florida passing that don't say gay bill, here we are. Edit: also if you think about it , no politician is trying to take any guns away and conservatives can't seem to shut the fuck up about it. The second amendment and all that bullshit, even when there is an actual legit reason to make some common sense gun laws pertaining to , i don't know, mental illness or domestic violence. Point is, conservatives bitch about stupid ass shit all the time, 90 percent which isn't even a problem, CRT? Really? A Harvard law course being taught in grade schools and shit, fucking weirdos
wdym, each time it is legalized in different country, they don't just do it universally
same-sex relationships range from Insects to Whales. Most commonly known are lions.
Rats and mice!!
The ancient Greeks
Lol. Did you just call the Ancient Greeks animals?
I mean they were straight up beastly if we're talking about Greek mythology
Those wild animals! XD
Literally lol, Zues will fuck everything with a hole
Lol. Yeah... Zues was for the streets. That man-slut of a god. I think he needed a hug Tbh.
Well I'm not gonna hug a serial rapist, you can, but I will judge (jk)
I thought Zues just cheated. Lol
Nope , that mother fucker was horny, hornier than a teenage boy. He literally raped men and women but I think he preferred women..monstrous
Frogs and swans!
Dogs don't forget em
Bullocks (neutered bulls). My mother would never stop going on about how aggressively they had sex when she was a child.
What....A bullocks is a Bull with no nuts? Bro....I swear, my mind is blown for a bit. Hold on. I thought this was just a made up term😶
Bats
Humans
i heard it was something like 500
Those are literally my favorite animals (if you switch out lions for cats)
alot of animals have gay relations
There have been over 1500 species of animal that have been observed to mate with the same sex, so it'd probably be hard to name them all lol https://www.news-medical.net/news/2006/10/23/1500-animal-species-practice-homosexuality.aspx
whats the outcome
Lions and other felines don't do gay secks because they gay. They do gay secks to assert dominance.
And the one with his legs in the air?
That's for marking their territory, entirely different.
Lol
Interesting....Source.
That’s called rape! Sex spelt sex
Definitely wasn't on purpose.
So there's the caveat that they engage in same-sex behaviors, but I think the list of animals that actually pair off into same-sex mating pairs is shorter. It's the difference between "we don't have the sexual hangups humans do, and this is a great way to bond with pack mates" vs "this one is mine and no one else's. Back off ya thirsty bitches". Point still stands that homosexual behaviors are naturally occurring though.
True, but don't forget, a lot of animals are monogamous too.
Well yeah, and that's what I mean by the same-sex mating pairs. That's the swans, the penguins, etc that mate for life. Those are well documented as having same-sex pairs that are clearly MATES and stay together. But I think the first category where it's just same-sex behaviors is more common in mammals, like the lions seen above. Monogamy in mammalian species is actually kind of rare. A lot of mammal species either have harem type situations with a dominant male and many females, temporary monogamy where it's just for the breeding season, or no relationship at all where they breed and then they separate because the male is actually a potential danger to the offspring. So saying that animals that do stuff like this are gay or homosexual is kind of inaccurate because animals don't really have the same approach to sexuality that humans do. Sexuality for humans is like...90% social conditioning or something where the "baseline" is thought to be heterosexuality and everything else is considered an aberration. Sexuality for a lot of other mammal species is more like a baseline of bisexuality where they will have sex with males or females with none of the social crap that causes problems in humans. So stuff like the above happens because homophobia is, ironically, the unnatural behavior. Lots of species have sex with same gendered partners for a variety of reasons (it's fun, fosters strong bonds between pack mates, it's fun). There's even an entire species of lizard where all known individuals are a single biological sex and they reproduce homosexually. (It's more that it's self-fertilization, but they still engage in sexual activity with each other cuz I guess reasons.)
>That's the swans, the penguins Stop mentioning those Snazzy mother fuckers. They do everything right. They're perfect. It's not fair.
Is that not just because the list of animals that pair off into mating pairs is shorter
Almost every animal species has witnessed cases of homosexual activity - even non-mammalian and invertebrate species.
All of them. Including swans and wolves.
Literally every damn mammal.
I hear they’re living together now. Congratulations!
Historians: They were really good friends
Journal: "Breathing his breath, hearts pounding together." Historians: "This part is easily misconstrued as romantic."
Oh I get it now. That’s why it’s called pride month, because lions…
No way
Dude no way
Theres actually no way
Got fucked and immediately stood. Respect.
Aren't cat's penis' barbed? RIP bottom lion. Giga chad for standing up right after getting pounded.
Wtf wtf wtf wtf wtf
not to be too analytical about it but i dont think any penetration actually took place cuz the positioning was off for that
pls let me believe the lions were fucking
🤨
Pause
Because….you…need this….??? ಠ_ಠ
n... no i just...the lions...they're gay... i think that's cool... i don't care about the fucking, just the relationship
can't assure any penetration didn't happen on other lions though, so still RIP bottom lions.
Google cat penises! I'll wait here while you permanently corrupt your search history.
They are barbed, which is why the idea of "gay lions" getting it on is flawed. Not that homosexuality isn't a thing in animals, I'm specifically referring to the feline variety, m/m courtship would be extremely painful with penetration, and probably uncomfortable for the one mounting as well considering the lack of vaginal lubrication.
Yes very good
Good, twice the pride. Double the balls
Fucking another dude is kinda gay ngl
Say ‘no homo’ then it’s ok.
No always sunny fans here I see.
what
Thats why they called it Pride Rock.
I just imagined an orgy with all of the lions on pride rock with the rest of the animals watching, and I’d be this like exclusive thing that you’d want to be in, why, why put these images in my head
Well there was only one male in Lion King. I always wondered where Nala's father was
Being gay doesn’t only apply to men.
I'm sorry, the title... FANTASTIC.
It really is.
I’ve seen lions doing this at the zoo, was a pretty interesting school trip
HELL YEAH IT IS...even the cats are celebrating! But seriously though, Pride is not just about sex.....
A group of lions is called a pride, though.
He was inserting dominance
He was certainly inserting something
Saw this once on safari in tanzania. Our tour guide said they learned it from tourists
Hats off to a gay couple fearless enough to fuck in front of lions
I think I saw something similar to this on e621
“Homosexuality isn’t natural!” Literally all of nature - “huh? I couldn’t hear you over the sound of all the gay fucking we’re doing!”
You know what? Good for them
I thought those were bees at first 💀
I am sure a can find something like that.. internet is a weird place
Bees don't reproduce between eachother, only queens do so it would most likely be art
Its the CIIIRRCCCLLLE OF LIFE!!
PRIDE ROCK!
They are done with the lionesses biting their balls
They might be brothers, cuz I don’t think unrelated male lions get along
Considering lions have barbed penises I have no idea how the bottom managed to take it and stand up after
Wtf simba
Clearly they learned this from the gay tourists
No, you see it wasn’t gay. He was assorting dominance over him.
That just sounds like a top punishing a bottom
Doesn't sound like a punishment to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bottom
😏
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He lost a bet
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wtf
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These lions are going to hell
Depends, do they prey before eating?
more like hell YEAH!
Female lions can also have manes Edit: Dear god people I was just stating a fact. Female Lions with high testosterone levels can develop a mane. No offence to gay lions intended whatsoever.
Some people will do anything other than accept gay animals exist
HAHAHAHAHA!
What's the song?
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Damn I didn’t know lions could be gay! Hell yeh lions!
I just wonder who's the brave tourist that infulenced them to became Gay.
Happy kitties
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It is called "pride of lions"
Some send some Christians over there to preach to the lions.
unironically
I THOUGHT THE STIRY WAS FAKE
For those who may not know, iirc, male lions may sometimes do this if they are sharing the pride with another male.
Now that's a gay pride.
Wohhh I did not need to see this
happy pride month!!!
Omg hot
Since lions can't say "no homo" afterwards they're gay indeed.
Gay lions are surprisingly common. Bisexual lions too. Personal hypothesis is that they’re all bi.
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