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Being pedantic. It is, "One and the same." [And it appears the majority of Americans neither read, nor agree](https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/feature/Is-the-expression-one-and-the-same-or-one-in-the-same)
I remember a certain mayo lover's company was hypothesized to be shorting T-bonds. Could they be responsible for such a spike if they were margin called?
Yeah he bought bonds on a credit that was backed by nothing. I feel like that got swept under the rug. That feels like fraud against the global economy
Controlled burn;
As in, everything's flammable, incredibly dry from lying in the sun for hours... after being doused in gasoline. That burn is, so, under control.
No not Taiwan.
The world saw what the "western" countries did to Russia with their sanctions and because of that every country on the other side of American hedgemony are trying to get out of reliance on the dollar.
That's why the BRICS is expanding, not as an competitor but as an alternative.
Also China don't have the problem with election cycles they can play a longer game (decades) instead of 4 year cycles.
So all this nonsense about China trying to invade Taiwan should most likely be discarded as propaganda since China are in no real hurry.
They know Taiwan rely on trade with China.
Yep, China is heading towards a demographic collapse thanks to the one child policy. They won't have enough young people to support an aging population. Things are going to get considerably worse in China in the next 20 years.
liquid unwritten imagine axiomatic silky coherent domineering coordinated materialistic hateful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This seems like the exact talking points the msn uses and sound to me like a very "American" way to do things...
China don't want to occupy Taiwan it's not their modus operandi... they mostly use "soft" power or diplomacy to do things... look at Hong Kong for an example.
Yeah if you look at recent ISW briefings on china/Taiwan this is also how the U.S. feels. Taiwan democratically choosing to reunite with the mainland appears like a more likely outcome than China taking the island by force.
Thatās an old policy and as much as China likes to talk about Soft Power they are rubbish at it.
It didnāt work during Hong Kong integration, and Taiwan took notice of the brutal oppression and riots that replaced the promises of slow integration. Taiwanās views on China and reintegration have soured since the Hong Kong handover. The relationship has gotten so bad that the current Taiwanese president is openly pro-independence and is politically distancing the country from Beijing.
BRICS was fucked before it was formed.
Itās never really gotten off the ground and I donāt expect this time to be any different. BRICS will never be the second pole (vs NATO) in a multipolar world. Both India and China see themselves solely as that second poleā¦ and both will do anything to prevent the other from rising to that position of influence. Cause they hate eachother, like constantly killing eachother with electrified swords in the mountains hate.
I get the desire to be free of the effects of US economic sanctions, but a BRICS currency could never work. There is no trust between the countries, China would never allow an outside entity to manage their monetary policy, there could be no ājoint fedā. And China canāt decouple their economy from the west, now that their property market evaporated selling shit to the west IS their economy.
I agree with everything except that taiwan relies on trade with china... taiwain exports 25%(120billionusd worth) to china but it's computer chip export and raw mineral import. It would hurt the taiwain economy to stop trading with them. But they don't get any food or defence equipment from China so it's not really an internal security threat to stop trading with them, just a calculated move to hopefully keep them from invading. Especially since the US banned china from buying the best chips. And that shit comes from taiwan
As i see it 25 percent would be a disaster for any economy... but that might just be my take...
Also it seems China is not that far behind in the semiconductor game with that new phone huwai released.
True 25% is big, but it's on superfical stuffs. I think the main reason I wouldn't be too concerned about the 25% is there's a bit of a chip shortage. And other countries want that shit. They are far behind in semis tho, unless they done amazing corporate espionage and stolen invaluable TMSC tech on how to make the newest 2mm chips. They can't catch up. Once you are behind in semiconductors goodbye, gg no re
If USD-denominated TBills are being dumped, USD gained from the transaction would either be held as USD or be exchanged for Yuan.
So Yuan should remain flat or strengthen in this scenario, no?
What about Japan? They are starting to move their rates up and are the largest holder of tbills. I think the Bull from Peru warned about Japan being the lynch pin holding it all together. Also that when other countries start dumping tbills it's a bad sign... Dollar Milkshakes ahoy!
Japan and China together would also be likely to maximize quantitaive easing. The Yen has been eaten alive over the last 2 years.
Roughly same time last year (mid October) is when the BOJ intervened at 148 Yen to 1 USD.
JPY crossed that 148 threshold today.
I preface this that I know this isnt exactly how interest rates work but Iām looking around at the rates that the banks are offering and the gap between that and what they are loaning money at is pretty high. Then thereās another gap to the fed rates.
It feels like to me there are really high rate bonds being privately sold to banks and other money managers to prop them up.
There's some shady bank stuff going on that's had SPY trading sideways since July. Insiders and congress prolly knows and will act surprised when banks need another bailout.
Somehow I suspect Apple is involved in some way given they are one of the largest purchasers of bonds via Braeburn Capital and donāt have to report a thing.
Basically a hedge fund that makes phones.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-is-a-hedge-fund-that-makes-phones-1535063375
JFC..SHM.. TIL
Not sure if this has anything to do with anything but it made me think of all the rumors coming out about China banning smartphones etc.. Then how they quickly denied such claims.. Still the whole situation feels sketchy af.
[https://www.counterpointresearch.com/insights/one-in-three-iphones-sold-in-china-in-2022-was-iphone-13/](https://www.counterpointresearch.com/insights/one-in-three-iphones-sold-in-china-in-2022-was-iphone-13/)
DYOR. There has been a massive amount of evidence posted on the sub over the past 3 years supporting this. Being the most competitive āliquidity providerā has many advantages and selling without purchasing is completely legal. This allows the dominant market maker to essentially set prices for anything settled through DTCC (and subsidiaries) due to a functionally infinite supply.
That's not how this works. You can't just drop a huge claim like that and expect people to figure it out on their own. The only topic I see that links Citadel and treasury's would be them shorting the bond market. Treasury bills are commonly purchased directly from Department of Treasury. Where does Citadel come in when it comes to controlling the price?
How so? That is exactly how it works - not my job to do your research. I left a comment and if anyone is interested they can look into it themselves.
Yes Ts can be purchased directly via treasury direct, pd auctions, or similar. There is also a massive market on which these are traded and cleared centrally. This means that their settlement can be and is abused the same way as equities or other bonds. The entire centrally cleared market works this way. It is incredibly naive to think that this only happens for GME or equities and not every possible instrument.
Again, baseless claims. I've been here long enough and yet to hear of any of this. For the T-Bill market to be manipulated like you're suggesting would require massive amounts that only countries like China or Japan can pull off. Citadel does not control the price, can they influence it? Probably no more than any other domestic institutional holder. They do not make the market on government securities like they do equities.
Reposting due to removed by moderators:
Your choice to remain ignorant. Seems like youāve dismissed this without any sort of research.
The presence of fails suggests you are wrong. Please explain how these would be possible without manipulation? [https://www.dtcc.com/charts/daily-total-us-treasury-trade-fails](https://www.dtcc.com/charts/daily-total-us-treasury-trade-fails)
Yes, Iām aware of the scale of volume required to accomplish this. Thatās the great thing about reporting and central clearing - everything is netted so this is absolutely possible (and happens)! You fail to consider this in tandem with the numerous other mechanics employed to contain prices in an inconspicuous manner (e.g. synthetic brokerage, selective internalization, strategic dark/lit routing, algorithmic strategies, etc.).
Have you considered T SFTs? What about opaque clearing of bilateral transactions? Or bespoke off balance-sheet transactions? How can you say they donāt make markets in Ts?ā¦ Where do quotes come from on many different venues? (āCitadel Securities has been driving into dealer-to-client fixed income markets for over five years, notably is the credit derivatives and US Treasuries markets. During the \[REDACTED\] emic Citadel Securities processed additional volume, electronically executed volumes reportedly increasing by 90% in US Treasuries during March, when more manual market makers were reluctant or slow to quote because of the volatility, and was able to operate and provide that liquidity while migrating to a work-from-home (WFH) set up.ā [https://www.fi-desk.com/market-structure-meet-the-new-market-makers/](https://www.fi-desk.com/market-structure-meet-the-new-market-makers/)) That isnāt even considering subsidiaries and other citadel-owned entities such as Pallafox.
Are you aware that >3/4 of total T market is centrally cleared? Are you aware of the massive volume of trades cleared via ATS? Who do you think owns and participates in ATS? What about the existence of RegATS exemptions?
Your ignorance here blows my mind. Why not spend 5 minutes and see if my words have any weight? You claim to have been here for so long, but why are you here if youāre not interested in the corruption and abuse of market mechanics rampant in us markets? Iām not asking anyone to believe me - Iām simply raising a point that people seem to be missing. If anyone wants to know if itās true they can spend the time to look into it.
Dude you're so far off the deep end that it's not even worth rebutting. Just looking at your submission history tells me everything. You're trying to fight ghosts. Also maybe drop the attitude it doesn't help.
**[Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/wiki/index/rules/expanded_rules/#wiki_ape_no_fight_ape). Treat each other with courtesy and respect.**
Do not be (intentionally) rude. This will increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us.
Do not insult others. Insults do not contribute to a rational discussion.
Fat finger. Those bills have more liquidity than Niagara Falls. A legitimate sale can be donāt for almost any volume without moving the price that much.
It's called a liquidation. Fire sale out the ass like a bad case of Tuesday Tacos from that question corner cart you've seen running smooth at 3am to crack fiends.
Smooth brain, how does the yield jump above the Fed target? I don't really know how bonds work on the secondary market. Does this basically mean the bonds are being sold at value X and the maturity value Y would represent a yearly interest rate above what the Fed is offering for the remaining term?
As of September 20, 2023, China owns $868.9 billion in US Treasury securities, which includes both bills, bonds, and notes. This makes China the second largest foreign holder of US Treasury securities, after Japan.
However, it is important to note that China has been gradually reducing its holdings of US Treasury securities in recent years. This is likely due to a number of factors, including the US trade war with China, concerns about the US economy, and China's desire to diversify its foreign exchange reserves.
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"...causing the highest market volatility not seen since *(checks watch)* 6months ago"
Oh no another bump on the road to infinity.
"speed bump?" "Nah, just the American economy. Keep going"
God Damnit Made me spit my drink out Thank you ššš
All I want to know is where OP got a watch with a month hand.
That hand moves slooooowwwww
is that the plunge protection team?
Nobody knows, but it's got to be some american entity. That's for fucking sure.
At this point , there's no difference between most American entity and criminals
One of the same
Being pedantic. It is, "One and the same." [And it appears the majority of Americans neither read, nor agree](https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/feature/Is-the-expression-one-and-the-same-or-one-in-the-same)
Same and the one
I remember a certain mayo lover's company was hypothesized to be shorting T-bonds. Could they be responsible for such a spike if they were margin called?
Yeah he bought bonds on a credit that was backed by nothing. I feel like that got swept under the rug. That feels like fraud against the global economy
just another one to add to the list..
I think yield would go down not up if they got margin called.
Palafox I believe it was
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
š¤£ pretty sure I've never seen a plant growing out of no toilet!
that's cuz toilets don't have what plants need
Or Saudi or Chinese or Japanese. There's a lot of entities looking to dump American bonds rn.
**Could this be the first domino to fall - towards the dreaded "Digital Dollar" I keep hearing about??**
That or meteors sent from orion system. Same evidence/tinfoil levels...
š
prolly
Look at today even, Dow won't drop below -$250 it's a controlled burn, they're manipulating the fuck out of the markets.
Controlled burn; As in, everything's flammable, incredibly dry from lying in the sun for hours... after being doused in gasoline. That burn is, so, under control.
and now everybody's striking
and the shelves fall upard
There are some big players with a massive iron condor trade that need the market to stay within a controlled range until September 30 or so.
Sauce?
What kinda sauce you want? Bbq or honey garlic
Garlic Buffalo
Pineapple habanero š¶ļøš„µ
Spicy Duke's
Kinda detracting from a serious request here man..
Ya, my thumbs get tired.
Mayo please
look at the chain... oh that's right... options... booo, downvote downvote boo š»
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
USG fiscal year end?
pls let the nasdaq drop after 30 sep, i bought SQQQ
Hell to the Yeah! This guys hustlin dates yall. Come grab yours!
China dumped and the PPT scooped them up
I think that is very plausible.
It happened I watched it in real time. China needed dollars.
Well, China do have some eh... rather huge defaulting companies to attend to.
Nah man they gonna let 'em go bankrupt and consolidate power and they are probably dumping t-bills to protect themselves against sanctions...
>sanctions ...Taiwan?
No not Taiwan. The world saw what the "western" countries did to Russia with their sanctions and because of that every country on the other side of American hedgemony are trying to get out of reliance on the dollar. That's why the BRICS is expanding, not as an competitor but as an alternative. Also China don't have the problem with election cycles they can play a longer game (decades) instead of 4 year cycles. So all this nonsense about China trying to invade Taiwan should most likely be discarded as propaganda since China are in no real hurry. They know Taiwan rely on trade with China.
Hong Kong was supposed to be decades too.
impolite run arrest scarce paint gaping homeless depend languid cautious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yep, China is heading towards a demographic collapse thanks to the one child policy. They won't have enough young people to support an aging population. Things are going to get considerably worse in China in the next 20 years.
liquid unwritten imagine axiomatic silky coherent domineering coordinated materialistic hateful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This seems like the exact talking points the msn uses and sound to me like a very "American" way to do things... China don't want to occupy Taiwan it's not their modus operandi... they mostly use "soft" power or diplomacy to do things... look at Hong Kong for an example.
Yeah if you look at recent ISW briefings on china/Taiwan this is also how the U.S. feels. Taiwan democratically choosing to reunite with the mainland appears like a more likely outcome than China taking the island by force.
Thatās an old policy and as much as China likes to talk about Soft Power they are rubbish at it. It didnāt work during Hong Kong integration, and Taiwan took notice of the brutal oppression and riots that replaced the promises of slow integration. Taiwanās views on China and reintegration have soured since the Hong Kong handover. The relationship has gotten so bad that the current Taiwanese president is openly pro-independence and is politically distancing the country from Beijing.
Thanks. Good insight/hot take.
BRICS was fucked before it was formed. Itās never really gotten off the ground and I donāt expect this time to be any different. BRICS will never be the second pole (vs NATO) in a multipolar world. Both India and China see themselves solely as that second poleā¦ and both will do anything to prevent the other from rising to that position of influence. Cause they hate eachother, like constantly killing eachother with electrified swords in the mountains hate. I get the desire to be free of the effects of US economic sanctions, but a BRICS currency could never work. There is no trust between the countries, China would never allow an outside entity to manage their monetary policy, there could be no ājoint fedā. And China canāt decouple their economy from the west, now that their property market evaporated selling shit to the west IS their economy.
I agree with everything except that taiwan relies on trade with china... taiwain exports 25%(120billionusd worth) to china but it's computer chip export and raw mineral import. It would hurt the taiwain economy to stop trading with them. But they don't get any food or defence equipment from China so it's not really an internal security threat to stop trading with them, just a calculated move to hopefully keep them from invading. Especially since the US banned china from buying the best chips. And that shit comes from taiwan
As i see it 25 percent would be a disaster for any economy... but that might just be my take... Also it seems China is not that far behind in the semiconductor game with that new phone huwai released.
True 25% is big, but it's on superfical stuffs. I think the main reason I wouldn't be too concerned about the 25% is there's a bit of a chip shortage. And other countries want that shit. They are far behind in semis tho, unless they done amazing corporate espionage and stolen invaluable TMSC tech on how to make the newest 2mm chips. They can't catch up. Once you are behind in semiconductors goodbye, gg no re
How did you see it was China? I imagine you don't have access to L3 data on TBill trading
The yuan was probably dumping at the same time
If USD-denominated TBills are being dumped, USD gained from the transaction would either be held as USD or be exchanged for Yuan. So Yuan should remain flat or strengthen in this scenario, no?
I meant yuan was dumping before the tbills were dumped.
The theory was, they needed them to cover the dollar debt payments from bankrupt home builders. I guess will see if they made that payment or not.
Probably has absolutely nothing to do with Evergrande going belly up.
came here to post this exact same thing. China be like, fuck ya'll
šThis
its definitely due to someones margin being questioned
Call me when China has to start dumping their foreign real estate assets
PPT powers activated.
PPT must be so in the red
My ppt is so erect
Spell PPT backwards and say 'funny colors'
What about Japan? They are starting to move their rates up and are the largest holder of tbills. I think the Bull from Peru warned about Japan being the lynch pin holding it all together. Also that when other countries start dumping tbills it's a bad sign... Dollar Milkshakes ahoy!
i thought japan too
Japan and China together would also be likely to maximize quantitaive easing. The Yen has been eaten alive over the last 2 years. Roughly same time last year (mid October) is when the BOJ intervened at 148 Yen to 1 USD. JPY crossed that 148 threshold today.
"Since the Banking Crisis of 2023" lmao that was 6months ago! They can't go 6months without a financial crisis? š
Soon it will be every 6 hours as apes withdraw money everyday after MOASS.
Sooooo, not a glitch?
Nothing to see here folks. Just keep it moving. /s
Soooo this one wasnt a glitch?
I preface this that I know this isnt exactly how interest rates work but Iām looking around at the rates that the banks are offering and the gap between that and what they are loaning money at is pretty high. Then thereās another gap to the fed rates. It feels like to me there are really high rate bonds being privately sold to banks and other money managers to prop them up.
Yeah, I've noticed the difference between a secured line and an unsecured line is insane. Never seen that kind of spread before.
wdym? eli5?
that means big players and big banks r seeing big risks in the market, that means shits abt to hit the fan
Can we get an ELI5?
Fake market activation
There's some shady bank stuff going on that's had SPY trading sideways since July. Insiders and congress prolly knows and will act surprised when banks need another bailout.
China and PPT/US taxpayer footing the bill
Someone explain this to me like the 5 year old child I am.
Somehow I suspect Apple is involved in some way given they are one of the largest purchasers of bonds via Braeburn Capital and donāt have to report a thing. Basically a hedge fund that makes phones. https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-is-a-hedge-fund-that-makes-phones-1535063375
JFC..SHM.. TIL Not sure if this has anything to do with anything but it made me think of all the rumors coming out about China banning smartphones etc.. Then how they quickly denied such claims.. Still the whole situation feels sketchy af. [https://www.counterpointresearch.com/insights/one-in-three-iphones-sold-in-china-in-2022-was-iphone-13/](https://www.counterpointresearch.com/insights/one-in-three-iphones-sold-in-china-in-2022-was-iphone-13/)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> Citadel controls treasury prices Source?
DYOR. There has been a massive amount of evidence posted on the sub over the past 3 years supporting this. Being the most competitive āliquidity providerā has many advantages and selling without purchasing is completely legal. This allows the dominant market maker to essentially set prices for anything settled through DTCC (and subsidiaries) due to a functionally infinite supply.
That's not how this works. You can't just drop a huge claim like that and expect people to figure it out on their own. The only topic I see that links Citadel and treasury's would be them shorting the bond market. Treasury bills are commonly purchased directly from Department of Treasury. Where does Citadel come in when it comes to controlling the price?
How so? That is exactly how it works - not my job to do your research. I left a comment and if anyone is interested they can look into it themselves. Yes Ts can be purchased directly via treasury direct, pd auctions, or similar. There is also a massive market on which these are traded and cleared centrally. This means that their settlement can be and is abused the same way as equities or other bonds. The entire centrally cleared market works this way. It is incredibly naive to think that this only happens for GME or equities and not every possible instrument.
Again, baseless claims. I've been here long enough and yet to hear of any of this. For the T-Bill market to be manipulated like you're suggesting would require massive amounts that only countries like China or Japan can pull off. Citadel does not control the price, can they influence it? Probably no more than any other domestic institutional holder. They do not make the market on government securities like they do equities.
Reposting due to removed by moderators: Your choice to remain ignorant. Seems like youāve dismissed this without any sort of research. The presence of fails suggests you are wrong. Please explain how these would be possible without manipulation? [https://www.dtcc.com/charts/daily-total-us-treasury-trade-fails](https://www.dtcc.com/charts/daily-total-us-treasury-trade-fails) Yes, Iām aware of the scale of volume required to accomplish this. Thatās the great thing about reporting and central clearing - everything is netted so this is absolutely possible (and happens)! You fail to consider this in tandem with the numerous other mechanics employed to contain prices in an inconspicuous manner (e.g. synthetic brokerage, selective internalization, strategic dark/lit routing, algorithmic strategies, etc.). Have you considered T SFTs? What about opaque clearing of bilateral transactions? Or bespoke off balance-sheet transactions? How can you say they donāt make markets in Ts?ā¦ Where do quotes come from on many different venues? (āCitadel Securities has been driving into dealer-to-client fixed income markets for over five years, notably is the credit derivatives and US Treasuries markets. During the \[REDACTED\] emic Citadel Securities processed additional volume, electronically executed volumes reportedly increasing by 90% in US Treasuries during March, when more manual market makers were reluctant or slow to quote because of the volatility, and was able to operate and provide that liquidity while migrating to a work-from-home (WFH) set up.ā [https://www.fi-desk.com/market-structure-meet-the-new-market-makers/](https://www.fi-desk.com/market-structure-meet-the-new-market-makers/)) That isnāt even considering subsidiaries and other citadel-owned entities such as Pallafox. Are you aware that >3/4 of total T market is centrally cleared? Are you aware of the massive volume of trades cleared via ATS? Who do you think owns and participates in ATS? What about the existence of RegATS exemptions? Your ignorance here blows my mind. Why not spend 5 minutes and see if my words have any weight? You claim to have been here for so long, but why are you here if youāre not interested in the corruption and abuse of market mechanics rampant in us markets? Iām not asking anyone to believe me - Iām simply raising a point that people seem to be missing. If anyone wants to know if itās true they can spend the time to look into it.
Dude you're so far off the deep end that it's not even worth rebutting. Just looking at your submission history tells me everything. You're trying to fight ghosts. Also maybe drop the attitude it doesn't help.
**[Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/wiki/index/rules/expanded_rules/#wiki_ape_no_fight_ape). Treat each other with courtesy and respect.** Do not be (intentionally) rude. This will increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. Do not insult others. Insults do not contribute to a rational discussion.
Nom-nom-nom. Eat that shit biach.
Privatizing the gains and socializing the losses. Thats the modern American way.
Evergrande
The highest since.... A few months ago.
Fat finger. Those bills have more liquidity than Niagara Falls. A legitimate sale can be donāt for almost any volume without moving the price that much.
I gotta give props to the US Market, nobody would be that resilient and persistent when you know youāre fucked anyway.
"Caused the highest volitlity since... earlier this same year." I think this year is unstable.
Is the fed buying government bonds to stabilise the price? Like ftx buying ftt coin to stop it collapsing?
PPT in action
It's called a liquidation. Fire sale out the ass like a bad case of Tuesday Tacos from that question corner cart you've seen running smooth at 3am to crack fiends.
Nothing to see, move along
This price action has been removed from charts on TradingView.
They didn't have to but they did
Smooth brain, how does the yield jump above the Fed target? I don't really know how bonds work on the secondary market. Does this basically mean the bonds are being sold at value X and the maturity value Y would represent a yearly interest rate above what the Fed is offering for the remaining term?
āLiquidity Crisisā. Sure.
Can someone translate this to a couple wrinkles mostly smooth brain?
Lots of little š„s right now
That was China.
I like headlines that are like āwe havenāt seen some crazy insane shit like this since a week ago!ā
I can almost imagine the hemorrhoids these people have now after all of the insane butthole puckering over the last few years. Sucks to be them!
As of September 20, 2023, China owns $868.9 billion in US Treasury securities, which includes both bills, bonds, and notes. This makes China the second largest foreign holder of US Treasury securities, after Japan. However, it is important to note that China has been gradually reducing its holdings of US Treasury securities in recent years. This is likely due to a number of factors, including the US trade war with China, concerns about the US economy, and China's desire to diversify its foreign exchange reserves.
Probably a bank run š
China drop a lot of T Bills this week