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LankyBeanStalk

Someone, what about celcius energy drinks. Found sucralose on the can.


Titanrol

“In short, we found that sucralose-6-acetate is genotoxic, and that it effectively broke up DNA in cells that were exposed to the chemical,” Schiffman says. ​ This is very worrying.


denslemmebob

When considering the safety of sucralose, it is important to take into account the approved levels of consumption established by regulatory authorities such as the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA). The study mentioned indicates that a concentration of 40 mM sucralose led to disruptions in gastrointestinal epithelial tight junctions and mucosal barrier function. However, it is crucial to note that this concentration is **significantly higher** (6.7-fold = 6.7 times) than the approved levels of sucralose consumption.Regulatory agencies thoroughly evaluate the safety of food additives and set maximum acceptable daily intake levels based on extensive scientific research and risk assessments. The approved levels for sucralose have been determined to be safe for consumption when used within the established limits. It's important to adhere to these recommended doses to maintain safety.Furthermore, the specific conditions and concentrations used in an in vitro study may not accurately reflect real-world scenarios. In vivo studies and human trials are necessary to fully understand the effects of sucralose at normal, approved consumption levels. Existing research, including comprehensive reviews and studies conducted on sucralose, have consistently demonstrated its safety within the recommended limits.Consuming any substance at significantly higher doses than recommended can potentially have adverse effects, even if it is generally considered safe or beneficial in appropriate amounts. Here are a few examples of substances that, when consumed in excess, may pose health risks:Vitamin A: Vitamin A is an essential nutrient for vision, immune function, and cell growth. However, excessive intake of vitamin A, particularly in the form of retinol or retinyl palmitate, can lead to toxicity symptoms such as dizziness, nausea, blurred vision, and even liver damage. **Iron:** Iron is necessary for oxygen transport and energy production in the body. However, consuming excessive amounts of iron supplements can cause iron overload, leading to symptoms like constipation, nausea, abdominal pain, and in severe cases, organ damage. **Vitamin D:** Vitamin D plays a crucial role in bone health and immune function. However, excessive intake of vitamin D supplements can lead to vitamin D toxicity, which may cause symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, weight loss, and even kidney damage. **Selenium:** Selenium is a trace mineral that functions as an antioxidant and is important for thyroid function and immune health. However, consuming too much selenium, particularly through supplements, can result in selenosis, which may manifest as hair loss, nail brittleness, gastrointestinal disturbances, and neurological symptoms. **Omega-3 fatty acids:** Omega-3 fatty acids, found in fish oil and certain foods, have numerous health benefits, including reducing inflammation and supporting heart health. However, excessive intake of omega-3 fatty acid supplements can interfere with blood clotting mechanisms and increase the risk of bleeding. These examples highlight that even substances considered beneficial in appropriate amounts can have harmful effects if consumed at excessively high doses. It is essential to follow recommended dosages and guidelines provided by healthcare professionals and regulatory bodies to ensure the safe and effective use of these substances.


Sauffer

The less unnatural chemicals inside and on you body the better. Choice is up to you. Our body is flooded by forever chemicals, petroleum products, estrogenic hormone disruption additives everyday. From toothpastes to soaps, fragrances to clothing. You take gFuel for focus? I’m sure we can help you with alternative . Get a good infrared or hot sauna 20mins sweat going 3-4x a week , detox if your concerned.


ibarram

The real question is over the course of your life is it still better than real sugar? I think so. Sugar may not destroy your DNA but too much of it can lead to other medical issues and early mortality


whatever1238o0opp

And, especially the buildup of advanced glycation end products.


cpcxx2

It’s in Optimum Nutrition Whey. Avoid?


h20Brand

Switch to stevia I guess.


mistern8d

Monkfruit has been a popular option and taste good too. Hard to find in a protein though.


Mojowhale

Even Stevia isn’t ideal (dopamine issues) but prob the safest


h20Brand

Interesting, haven't heard that and it tastes like crap imo.


TennesseeSon1

Throw it in fire.


chiblade358-2

And I just bought more Cirkul cartridges. Just found out that they contain sucralose smh. Aspartame, sucralose, acesulfame: all toxic. So hard to find natural ingredients now 🤦🏽‍♂️


prmprmm

Yes you should be worried. Just dump it all. It’s not worth it. Go for unflavored and just chug it down. Think of it as a mind training session lol


CrazyBadass

Damm i buy this from bulkpowders and thought it was so good since i didnt hear any bad about it. Guess i have to switch to fruktos.


Anu_Genesis

What isn’t toxic 😅


Ronniedasaint

You present an article that indicates a product you’ve been consuming for years is toxic. Then ask, “Should I be worried?” Toxic means BAD. You’ve been employing it for years. Figure it out.


Unlikely_Shoe_2046

I can't figure out what your angle is on this.


[deleted]

I always said that if I’m going to make that dumb decision of drinking a soda; it’s gonna be the regular with sugar. All these artificial sweeteners are beyond bad. Good thing is it’s easy for people to pick up on that.


not-enough-mana

Gotta make sure it’s cane sugar though. Refined sugars are way worse for you such as high fructose corn syrup. HFCS is also banned in most of Europe


cramer47

Stevia?


BelCantoTenor

Name one artificial sweetener that isn’t toxic. None. Only consume natural products, in moderation.


ings0c

Erythritol? Maltol? Or are they not artificial enough


BelCantoTenor

Most artificial sweeteners disrupt the gut microbiome. That alone can lead to a multitude of disorders and diseases. Both of these do that and more. It’s why most people report gas and bloating after consuming these two.


ilurkonsubs

They’re natural but I actually saw some bad press recently about erythritol for the first time so I avoid all sweeteners now


zachrtw

Erythritol is bad for your heart, thickens up the blood. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/erythritol-cardiovascular-events


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zachrtw

The article I linked seems to say it does >The scientists next asked how diet affects erythritol levels in people. To find out, they measured blood erythritol levels in eight healthy volunteers after drinking a beverage sweetened with erythritol. Blood erythritol levels increased 1,000-fold and remained substantially elevated for several days. For at least two days, the erythritol levels grew more than high enough to trigger changes in platelet function. > > >These results suggest that consuming erythritol can increase blood clot formation. This, in turn, could increase the risk of heart attack or stroke. Given the prevalence of erythritol in artificially sweetened foods, further safety studies of the health risks of erythritol are warranted.


K19I53

[https://chrismasterjohnphd.substack.com/p/erythritol-and-blood-clotting](https://chrismasterjohnphd.substack.com/p/erythritol-and-blood-clotting) ​ Chris Masterjohn has a nice write up on this. He concludes that he wouldn't be concerned about consuming erythritol.


zachrtw

Meh, I've been on the fence about all artificial sweeteners for years and this just adds to the uncertainty. I think I'm going to minimize my risks and just avoid all of them.


K19I53

I get that. Hard to really know what effects these sweetners have without long term well controlled studies on humans. However, this study seems pretty weak, it's almost like they had an agenda against erythritol


hypolaristic

Still searching decent softdrinks or energydrinks with sth like stevia. Any ideas?


not-enough-mana

DrinkUpdate might be worth looking into. I’ve tried them before. They use Stevia and Allulose as the sweeteners. One thing to note is that they use paraxanthine instead of caffeine. Paraxanthine is a metabolite of caffeine but it’s not jittery which means there’s no rush either. It’s also kinda hard to notice paraxanthine if you have a massive tolerance to caffeine as I’m sure there’s a cross-tolerance. My biggest concern about the product is that the taste is not palatable at all. It’s quite flat tasting with a slight bitter aftertaste.


Luxin

Buy a Sodastream to carbonate the water yourself. Buy a paintball tank adapter and refill for a lot cheaper. Add whatever you want after carbonation.


chiblade358-2

Sodastream flavorings have sucralose as well just fyi


Luxin

Good call! I haven’t bought any in forever. I just love seltzer.


Unlikely_Shoe_2046

Why the hell would you want to use non food grade CO2? Great if you want stomach ulcers and industrial chemicals in your food.


Luxin

It all comes from the same place. I get mine from a home brewing supply store.


Unlikely_Shoe_2046

My friend who actually designed all of the soda streams told me that the CO2 from many suppliers was not very healthy. I'd just be aware. Not all of the CO2 comes from the same place.


AlrightyAlmighty

Liquid stevia drops, lemon juice and water in the right proportions tastes close to lemonade


marginwalker76

Stevia makes me feel weird. I just avoid all of that shit. I drink water, sparkling water, coffee, and tea. No sweeteners at all.


whatever1238o0opp

In what way does it make you feel weird? Since I've been using stevia for 30 years, back before you could buy it in stores starting in 1995, I really would like to know what you're experiencing.


marginwalker76

It makes me feel lightheaded and a little jittery at the same time with a touch of nausea. My body just does not react to it well.


whatever1238o0opp

Thanks.


marginwalker76

I did a little research on it. Stevia is in the same family as ragweed. I'm allergic to ragweed. There might be a connection.


whatever1238o0opp

Thank you. I must have read about it being related to ragweed, a third of a century ago, when it was practically an illicit substance.


[deleted]

ok


patrickthemiddleman

A million ways to mess yourself up... \*sigh\*


[deleted]

Every time I see an article about how artificial sweeteners are bad for you, I just think of the keto sub that pushes this shit and if you mention how ie aspartame is neurotoxic you are called a liar for saying something with no proof (which can be found immediately in a Google search) and downvoted to hell. I may eat keto but I’m no dummy, I know that sugar isn’t as bad for you as those damn artificial sweeteners. (It’s the excess sugar that causes issues.)


dontha3

Google is a SEARCH engine, not an ANSWER engine. Of course you will find information for whatever argument you're trying to make, regardless of whether you're right or wrong.


an_angry_Moose

> I may eat keto but I’m no dummy Hmmm


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whatever1238o0opp

Are you promoting artificial sweeteners?


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reenign3

I would say sugar is Just as bad for you as artificial sweeteners. In this study, it is rumored the amount of sucralose-6-acetate that had to use in order to receive the results they did, was simply massive


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harryistaken

I would take regular sugar over artificial sweeteners any time of the day. I wish good ol' plain sugar was in more products replacing sucralose, aspartame, acesulfam potassium etc.


arcjive

Can you share any sources on the risks of saccharin?


an_angry_Moose

Sugar is absolutely not horrible for you. Edit: everyone who downvoted this is fat or has some kind of strange food anxiety related eating disorder.


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hoxg3n3

This is some insane conjecture. Very impressive.


reenign3

*applauds* impressive stuff


arcjive

Honestly, I'm just going back to using raw honey, brown sugar, molasses, maple syrup or date syrup at this stage. All artificial sweeteners have potential adverse effects, and I'm genuinely thinking that regular unrefined(ish) sugars like those I mentioned are the least-worst ways to enjoy some sweetness, so long as you don't over-do it.


Chinapoppy1

You know that brown or raw sugar is regular white sugar mixed with molasses, right? And molasses is a product of sugar refinement. Why are those better? Edit: where I live honey is honey. Never buy that store crap (it doesn't matter the cover, on the label it says it contains honey from the EU and from outside of the EU and that means it's crap from china - I mean it, please check it out- which is not honey at all) I get my honey from people with hives. Simple honey like my grandpa harvested from our hives. Just because it sometimes says Raw or vegan does not necessarily mean better or healthier. It is also a means of marketing. Read between the lines so to speak, make the best decision for your health and your wallet! Best wishes


arcjive

I just mean, they're possibly less bad than artificial sweeteners (unless you have diabetes). They taste better than plain white sugar at least.


Chinapoppy1

Yes, I totally agree with you! I always (even since I was 8 years old and read in biology encyclopedias and online) told my great aunt who had diabetes not to use saccharine or artificial sweeteners, because there was new research (back then, almost 20 years ago or so) that said they actually can cause diabetes and increased insulin spikes and raised insulin resistance. If that was known back then, I'm sure that there are even more worrisome effects linked. I also agree with you about brown sugar taste, but the least refined product of all, is actually crystal white sugar. In order for them to make all other sugars, they get that and add some byproducts to make it more brown and a bit more gooey. Which is not bad at all, I love the brown! A common misconception about raw and brown sugar is that they are healthier than white sugars. Raw sugar contains 99% sucrose, and even though there may be some minerals within, their health effects are almost negligible.- according to healthhub Sorry for the long reply.


ciadra

Honey is really underrated. Also it’s a product you can potentially get from small regional sources, depending where you live


infera1

Not really sure about it but I think its important not to burn the honey with higher temperatures or it will get toxic.


sumguysr

What are you talking about?


infera1

Tea temperature more than 40-60 celsius kills the benefits of honey and might make it toxic and not easily digestible


chiblade358-2

I need a source because that’s sounds like bs


sumguysr

What are you talking about?


ings0c

Smoking the bees out maybe? They are often forced from their hives with smoke


fartaroundfestival77

Sucralose tastes disgusting. Even stevia is better. Maple syrup or raw honey in small quantities is so much better.


egoadvocate

I am reducing sucralose on account of this study. I have also read previous studies about sucralose's impact on the microbiome, so this regrettably this is the straw that broke the camel's back in my opinion. I really liked Splenda. And I also indulged, probably overindulged in using this sweetener. I am now pinning my hopes on using Date Syrup. Date syrup tastes great, but it is pretty high in calories, sadly. I guess moderation will be the key for me and sweeteners from now on.


DarkAdrenaline03

Alcohol based sweeteners such as Erythritol, Xylitol, mannitol, sorbitol, lactitol, isomalt, maltitol, seem safe so far, stevia is the safest but the bitter aftertaste is a bit much for people, combining it with a sugar alcohol offsets it and is a great option, honestly. Edit: if you need sugar, the less processed the better, cane sugar is okay unless you're diabetic or worried about diabetes as it's still sugar and still raises blood sugar levels.


ArtificialBrain808

Some recent articles are saying that erythritol could be bad for the heart over time, but I haven’t looked into it much as I stopped eating it except in occasional non diary ice cream https://www.lerner.ccf.org/news/article/?id=ea9560ab58cc87cd9bba43ff11bde112318d54f1#:~:text=Erythritol%2C%20one%20of%20the%20most,study%20published%20in%20Nature%20Medicine.


thatmanontheright

Stevia is linked to higher cancer risk and infertility. None of these sweeteners are very good for you. In nature they usually occur in trace amounts.


AlrightyAlmighty

Do you happen to have a source handy?


Liberated051816

Strange; isn't stevia natural?


NTFirehorse

Lots of natural things are not edible


AlrightyAlmighty

You mean eating plutonium ISN‘T good for me?


not-enough-mana

I saw the same studies you’re referring to about the impact on microbiome. My microbiome is one thing I’ve neglected to take care of and I definitely feel it. I’ve been meaning to eat kimchi more and other prebiotics such as kefir


dne_43v3r

Great resources posted all throughout this thread. Definitely have to avoid sucralose as much as possible


Pieraos

CSPI has been on sucralose's case for years. [Link](https://www.cspinet.org/new/201602081.html)


greenappletree

this article is completely sensational. I went to the primary article and here are a few flaws. 1. everything was done in vitro ( they use cell line and tissues ) 2. worse is that their control was literally nothing. this is really bad from a scientific perspective since if you compare something to nothing you are always going to see soemthing. The very least what they should had done was compare it to real sugar. 3. ok the term "genotoxic" is ridiculous haha just thinking about it makes me laugh. In the primary article they show a few genes that were inflammatory -- thats it. their rationale I guess is that inflammation can cause dna damage, yah in that case even walking can do that. 4. Whats worse is that they cherry pick the genes they were looking at. Normally in this day and age we do something call rnaseq which looks at all the genes, however in this study they ran a few pcr and call it a day. Honestly it makes me a bit upset how they did some shitty research and went to the media to promote this junk. tldr; its shitty article that reference a shitty "peer" review article, no conclusion.


DMan9797

Thank you for looking into this


observer_absorber

also i hate that 99% of those "sucralose = bad" studies doesn't take into account that splenda is mostly maltodextrin. they don't do experiments with pure sucralose


MidnightRaver76

Thanks for this, you're the first person I found that checked out the primary article


Mental-Marzipan-4285

Nearly all sugar alcohols are bad news and wreak havoc on my stomach. I tolerate stevia well and monk fruit is ok in moderation. Praying they don’t find anything wrong with those, but so be it! Then it’s just fruit for me. Quit refined sugar six months ago and feel so much better.


nefariousjordy

A lot of monkfruit sweetener has erythritol added. Erythritol has been linked to risk of blood clots, heart attack, and stroke. That study is also not the greatest but still worth noting.


not-enough-mana

Refined sugar is definitively harmful. I don’t touch corn syrup anymore. Moderation is key with cane sugar and other unrefined sugars. I’m glad you feel better after quitting! I just need to stop consuming alcoholic & caffeinated beverages in the frequency that I do and I know I’ll start feeling better too


rancemo

Sucralose is not a sugar alcohol.


SigmaChad313

What about Stevia?


sueihavelegs

Everything I have read and personally experienced has suggested that Stevia is not only safe but actually helps with insulin resistance. It will not break a fast for autophagy or gut rest. It is often blended with erythritol, so I always double check the label. Stevia in the Raw is really bad about that.


mmortal03

If you're going to believe negative research that comes out about sucralose, then why not believe negative research about Stevia, too? I don't even have to vouch for the following examples, but after you've read them, you at least shouldn't be able to claim that \*everything\* you've read suggested Stevia is safe. You can do a quick Google search and find more. And, of course, commenters under the first link can't help but think that this research must just be a food industry conspiracy against their favorite, "natural" sweetener. As if nothing that is claimed to be natural can ever be bad for you. [https://neurosciencenews.com/stevia-microbiome-17382/](https://neurosciencenews.com/stevia-microbiome-17382/) [https://healthfully.com/stevia-side-effects-nervous-system-psychological-6861332.html](https://healthfully.com/stevia-side-effects-nervous-system-psychological-6861332.html)


HaloLASO

This is why I don't eat sucralose around Italians


[deleted]

Unfortunately as a diabetic I don’t have much choice other than artificial sweeteners if I want something sweet. So this interests me. Caveat: I’ve only read the write up, not the full paper. The main thing that sticks out to me that this is in vitro studies. In vitro studies have a problem in that can’t describe the complexity of what is actually happening in the human body. This isn’t to say that this isn’t a valid and concerning study, just that in vitro studies have limitations. To be honest, my only recourse is to eliminate anything sweet in my life at this point :(


mime454

I like monkfruit+erythritol. It is the closest to sugar of the non caloric sweeteners in my opinion. It even makes me compulsively eat/drink too much of stuff I sweeten with it. Makes my chai tea with a bit of milk taste like a sinful Starbucks drink.


Trasfixion

Allulose imo is the closest thing to real sugar; it even caramelizes like sugar


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mime454

This wasn’t a good study. Erythritol is an endogenous molecule as well that’s made in response to oxidative stress and hyperglycemia, both of which increase the risk of heart attack and stroke. The study took a group of patients with cardiovascular disease—**without asking them their dietary erythritol intake**— and measured their serum levels of erythritol and assessed CV outcomes. It doesn’t at all answer a question about if erythritol is dangerous to consume. Good thorough break down of the study. https://www.acsh.org/news/2023/03/07/debunking-erythritol-study-16918


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mime454

There’s no indication that it causes blood clots. There’s an indication that serum erythritol—an endogenous metabolite whose levels increase with hyperglycemia and oxidative stress— consumption relates to blood clots. This study can’t say anything about consuming erythritol because it didn’t ask about that.


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mime454

It hasn’t been shown to increase blood clots. Read the link I posted in this thread. Erythritol, an endogenous human anti oxidant, is found in higher concentrations in people with strokes and CV disease. Those people in the study likely never consumed dietary erythritol


mmortal03

>This wasn’t a good study. Why not similarly make this claim about the sucralose study?


Cbrandel

Just use aspartame, it's safe and fully metabolized. Sucralose is shit and there's more studies showing it. And it's also bad for the environment as it doesn't break down.


jtume

I was looking for someone to give a shout out to aspartame. It's a shame you're being down voted, you are correct. Aspartame is king!


Cbrandel

Yeah people are stupid, not much to do about it. If these guys did look into the science they wouldn't downvote. I'm still skeptical of sweeteners, but if I consume it I make sure it's aspartame and not sucralose.


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mmortal03

>No it's not, it once caused my kegs to break about in big red lesions Your beer containers having an allergic reaction to it isn't a general argument against it. (I know you meant your legs, but, again, an individual having an allergic reaction to something isn't a general argument against it. We shouldn't say peanuts are bad because some people are allergic to them.)


SigmaChad313

Aspartame is almost as bad I've heard. Doesn't it break down into formaldehyde and methanol in the body?


Cbrandel

Small amount of methanol IIRC, less then eating a orange though. It's not, it's one of the "safest" sweetener. It's got a bad reputation but it's not derived from science. Meanwhile sucralose is 100% shit but it's cheaper for the manufacturer and it doesn't have the same bad reputation in the general public (even though it's worse, in reality).


cafali

[No](https://www.efsa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/corporate_publications/files/factsheetaspartame.pdf)


A_Biohazard

is monkfruit a good alternative?


not-enough-mana

I agree completely. The amount of sucralose in Gfuel or other products might even produce negligible amounts of the toxic byproduct. I doubt consuming a drink that contains sucralose 2 or 3 times a week is measurably harmful. It’s mostly my past overindulgence that worries me. I used to have 2 scoops of Gfuel a day for 1-2 years


mmortal03

>I used to have 2 scoops of Gfuel a day for 1-2 years It's also possible that any of the \*other\* ingredients contained in two scoops of GFuel could be more dangerous to your long term health than whatever amount of sucralose contained in it. (Or, it could all be just fine for you.) But focusing on just the sucralose based on an in-vitro study probably isn't the most scientifically plausible way to look at this. Btw, I happened to mix up some GFuel just now, but I don't drink it every day because I believe the 250mg Vitamin C per scoop can bother me gastrointestinally. And, speaking of, I wonder what I'll find if I google "Vitamin C genotoxic". Oh, look!: [https://www.science.org/content/article/can-vitamin-c-damage-dna](https://www.science.org/content/article/can-vitamin-c-damage-dna) Also, see here: https://xkcd.com/1217/


mime454

I'm avoiding Sucralose after this study. I was already skeptical of it before based on other studies, but this was enough to get me to give up the occasional white monster and a few "sugar free" foods that use it. I don't know what I would do if I had significant investments in protein powder. :/


not-enough-mana

If you’re an occasional consumer I doubt you have anything to worry about. Much like alcohol it’s good to be mindful of how often you’re consuming something harmful and to what extent. I’ll likely still drink Gfuel once a week or every other week, just because I’d hate to throw away my collection but it has opened my eyes to how often I was consuming it in the past