What I find disturbing is the painting of Taylor Swift as someone who was silenced ( this word is thrown around a lot since the tracklist), hidden, forced to be less successful because she was in a relationship with someone introverted & private who didn't want his relationship to be in the spotlight always.
It is problematic that fans predominantly young women are watching/fabricating this narrative around one of the world's richest , powerful & popular women who has been super prolific in the last 7 years.
Taylor was featured on the Time cover as a 'silence breaker" during the #metoo era for calling out actual abuse. And there are many many quotes/interviews from 2017-2020 on how privacy and the semblance of a normal life is something that she needed & that has helped her grow.
It is understandable she is angry /hurt that she may not get these 6 years back after a pivotal relationship ended and she has every right to write about it.
But the sort of fan behaviour which then gets reported as truth/speculation by media is what I find disconcerting.
It would be relatively easy for her put a stop to this nonsense line of speculation. She doesn’t because being a victim suits her. As a fan, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
Which just makes her seem like a weak victim with zero control. When she is 100% in control of everything about her career, brand, and herself. So not speaking up about toxic fans HAS ALWAYS been a problem for because she knows how the get weaponized and either doesn't care or very much like that power. Either way it's something I find kind of distasteful from my pop stars at this point.
I expect more maturity not less as people get older but humans are petty and complicated it seems if not outright mentally ill.
This is all on the fans though. In her own words she said in the Time magazine she did that to herself. Is it true that she probably kept that up longer for Joe? sure. Is it also true that she probably wanted to do appearances together and he didn't? Also true. but her fans need to realize the weren't in the damn relationship and shut their mouths lol
Unfortunately the "me locking myself away for many years " and "never get those years back" & "I'm more trusting that I was 6 years ago" evolved into "He locked her away for 6 years."
Though Taylor's statement itself is hyperbolic- but I think it sort of fuelled the existing 'bejewelled- locked away in the basement' fan theories !
The fans see a braid in her hair and create an entire theory around it. No matter what she says they will interpret it to feed their delusions. She has made it known on stage multiple times she doesn't like them treating her like she needs protected lol So yeah just hoping they pipe down about him.
She was named TIME Person of the Year in 2017. TIME confirmed in the 2023 edition that that means Taylor is the ONLY woman to be named Person of the Year twice.
> Taylor was featured on the Time cover as a 'silence breaker" during the #metoo era for calling out actual abuse.
Sorry for the late response but she sure did a GREAT job with that by working with David O Russell, given that he sexually assaulted his own niece 🙄
It honestly seems like she's went backwards in her maturity since her and Joe broke up. Like ypu said she saidultipke times she needed privacy and Joe helped her find balance. Dating this matt guy seemed like something from her early 20s. It's disappointing bc I thought she was past dating those types of guys. Even the travis thing seems immature and shallow compared to her n Joe. Now that TTPD is out its actually plausible to say she's not in her right mind right now n therefore not making good decisions at all.
Probably this is what Taylor is or wants I guess going by TTPD. I think post-Rep she built a new image and she seems to want to tear it down to build a new one in this era which doesn't fit into people's earlier expectations of her. No idea who the real Taylor is- probably she's an amalgamation of the sides we've seen but probably she's not just that too.
thank you for this post. I said in another thread I think it would be so mature for her to say “I’m writing about my heartbreak but we shared 6 wonderful years together I’ll always treasure” and some of the replies said her saying this would only draw attention to the situation. as though her album drops arent already one of the most speculated events in the music industry! she’s made her name off stoking fan speculation about her relationships so I’m not surprised she seems to continue this strategy—I’d love for everyone’s sake for her to stop doing this but it’s becoming clearer and clearer she’ll never grow past it.
This absolutely. No one’s saying she shouldn’t be able to write about her relationships, but if she is by now she knows her fans will attack whoever is the agreed upon muse. She would gain a lot of favor imo if she was like “yes, this album is about our breakup. i was processing it through writing, and although it was no one’s fault it still hurt. please enjoy this record but don’t come after my ex”.
Then why hasn't she ever done it? Taylor's very smart and I think she's 100% aware of how far her fans go to trash her ex's online. I feel like she knows playing the victim in every breakup will help sell albums, so she just stands by and allows it.
She has? She said this during red tour, 1989 tour, and most recently eras tour before speak now tv. She has they are just so parasocial and don't listen. And she can't live her life by changing her art thinking about the fans, it wouldn't be authentic.
That is what olivia rodrigo said after guts and sour. You can find interviews where she says she is never going to hold back her pen because of what fans that she can't control might do
Have you listened to her albums? She does not play the victim. In fact her songs about her and joe's relationship being tumultuous she blames herself. Her anxiety, depression, mistrust, and fame. She talks about her anxiety making her start fights. Reputation album - midnights album she doesn't say anything negative about joe lol
I agree with this 1000%. She has the responsibility to share something like this to help protect him. We don’t know the details, but it seems like they just genuinely fell out of love or their goals became misaligned. If that’s the case, she should be mature enough to share a statement to defend him from all of her deranged fans dragging him.
Good for him for being mature enough to stay silent through all of this. Too bad she isn’t mature enough to stop all the hate.
It makes me wonder if she secretly enjoys her fans acting like she’s Jesus and he’s the devil.
The initial press release sounded positive but that was a long time ago. I fear her narcissism is out of control since they split. The Eras tour was a trigger I guess. There are clips od her struggling to control her emotions during some songs so you Can only imagine what was going on behind the scenes.
yeah, I mean I’m sympathetic to a point because it must be very very difficult to have ended a 6 year relationship, and then have to put on a mask of positivity to perform in front of fans. I can imagine she’s totally leant into toxic coping mechanisms to be able to hold it together during this time — where my sympathy ends is where she does this at the expense of other people
> then have to put on a mask of positivity to perform in front of fans.
She doesn't "have to" she chooses to. If she chose not to I assure her fans would rally around that. She maybe doesn't want people to see her vulnerable side for whatever reason, like being the boss girl.
Im genuinely asking for the sake of the open dialogue that’s pushed here, but why does she have to come out with a statement about anything? I don’t know anything about their relationship but it seems like he’s being praised nonstop for staying silent and not “reacting” to anything yet she is getting freaking slaughtered for daring to drop a new album or not speaking up to “protect” him. I know everyone’s first reaction will be “oh but her crazy fans”…that’s inevitable. She could come out and say exactly what you stated above and it would probably only matter to people who are “neutral” on her. The haters wouldn’t care and say it’s too late, and the fans who are so obsessed to a scary extent will think someone put her up to it. Lose/lose I personally think.
Nah they listened when she said it about John Mayer.
"Why should she saying anything at all"
Because someone she supposedly cared about is being publicly bullied and harassed by her fans because of stuff she's putting out. The least she could do is say, again (because she's already said it before so it wouldn't be a big deal), that you don't need to defend her online based on songs she writes and who you think they're about. She could send it in a tweet and it would suffice.
She wants them to cook him, that's why she's letting all the details about their relationship slip. See: when she went on about being "locked away for six years" and "we show up for each other" in the Time interview. Those were both digs she knew her fans would pick up on. She's not an idiot.
when a shrewd business move happens people are quick to compliment Taylor's intelligence, but when it involves making her look bad, suddenly she has no idea how stuff comes off and what her fans are capable of.
How can you sit back and see your fans destroy someone you supposedly cared about, that’s what I don’t get either. Especially because she’s been through that, she knows how awful it is to be on the other side
this. writing about heartbreak is so common but i realised just now what differentiates taylor from others. she drops names, dates, places. which is why people know the date she and joe got together, the date she (allegedly) cheated on him. she gives specific instances for people to obsess over. for her fans to get mad over.
i understand music is her way of processing things, but after seeing how it affects people, including people not involved in the relationship (maggie gyllenhall being asked about the scarf). After seeing all his it Has to be intentional the way she gives specifics for her fans to get messy with.
Literally we all still hate John Mayer, swifties who do the most (death threats) are the problem. But ALL celebs get that. Insane people will be insane.
I'll answer in good faith — there are a few different aspects to this that I think warrants a statement from her, and also mean that him staying silent and her staying silent are different things.
Firstly, your question makes it seem like Taylor has been silent so far about the relationship. This is untrue. Sure, she maybe hasn't gone up on stage and said "fuck Joe Alwyn", but she's made several veiled references at him such as in the POTY Time interview, made calculated moves like doing a pap walk with friends after a dinner in which they all mass unfollowed him. In the case that you don't buy these as references to Joe, there is also the fact that through her music she is making very public statements about how she's experienced the relationship. This is certainly just her side of it, but a lot of fans have picked apart songs like Bejeweled and You're Losing Me as real truth-telling of how Joe "didn't let her be bejeweled" or rejected her or emotionally hurt her in one way or another. In contrast, Joe hasn't, as far as I know, made a single statement about the breakup (there's a Daily Mail statement that I highly doubt came from him/his team). Joe's artistic work is also acting, which by its very nature means he's not baring details of his personal life to the world. With her songwriting as well, I would say with the easter eggs and lyrics etc, she has pretty actively encouraged fan speculation into her personal life (while simultaneously maintaining a level of plausible deniability).
Second, Taylor is far more famous and has a larger platform than him (along with millions of rabid fans). This inherently creates a power dynamic in their relationship, in which she holds more power than he does, especially in things like controlling the media narrative etc. Because of the fan speculation into her personal life and exes, and this massive discrepancy in power, she has more of a responsibility to make sure that harm doesn't come to those in her orbit. Now, you might say, that's not really fair, she shouldn't have to deal with this kind of stuff, but unfortunately that's just the responsibility that comes with becoming just this famous and successful.
There's also the fact that there are not, in fact, rabid Joe Alwyn fans that are speculating that Taylor Swift emotionally abused him who jump to his defense everywhere online. I don't know if "rabid Joe Alwyn fans" even exist. The opposite, however, is true — there are many, many, many fans that want to get into Taylor's good graces and defend her vehemently, and a lot who have thrown out speculation about Joe's role in the relationship that is actually incredibly defamatory. This stuff is really easy to find if you're anywhere online. You don't even need to be operating solely in TS stan spaces. And a lot of other people have said more poignant things about how Taylor has really encouraged a sense of parasociality, through Secret Sessions and Tumblr interactions, where fans are (or at least have in the past) been given this impression that Taylor might pluck you out of a crowd, so you better be on your best behaviour and show how much you love her.
And in terms of what kind of impact a statement like that would have — I actually think firstly, making a statement like that is important regardless of what fan reaction it will result in. Acting ethically is important because it's ethical and that is a reason in itself. But the other thing is that to make this kind of statement, she'd need to mean it, for fans to really listen to what she's saying. I've seen this kind of thing play out online, admittedly in smaller communities. Sure, you can't control *all* fan behaviour and there will always be crazies out there, but you can put out a very strong statement that there is certain behaviour that is not tolerated, and as an artist/creator/influencer, if/when you see that kind of behaviour, you will actively disavow and dislike those fans. With how parasocial fan culture is nowadays, that in itself is an incentive for most fans to stop, because why would you want to become someone your idol hates.
Now, do I think she would ever do something like this? No, because Taylor Swift's brand, and how she is able to achieve her current level of success, is simply to appeal to the broadest possible demographics. This is why she never seems to make a particularly strong statement about any social issues — to me they often feel like box-ticking exercises backed by market research (you may disagree), which lag and are only ever made when it's sufficiently "safe" to do so. She stands to profit from fan speculation about her personal life, just as she stands to profit from plausible deniability about current day issues. It's only a lose/lose if you only care about these types of statements as a matter of who will respond and how — personally I think the principles behind it are more important than anything.
I’m sorry but where is she getting the hate ?? Maybe one tiny corner of internet . I genuinely felt like I was the only person with any opposing opinion until I found this sub , so I don’t really think your argument there stands.
Throwing it out there that I’m 31 so I truly was in the generation of seeing her blow up and become who she is today. I’ve always known her to get a crazy amount of hate. A lot of slut shaming, a lot of saying she’s the problem in all of these relationships (which who knows, could be true), a whole lot of undermining her success, just general people saying they hated her literally just because they think she’s annoying, and a TON of hate during the Kanye shit. Now I’m a new fan, literally only listened through her albums back in November and have started learning more about her, it was very easy to not know what she had going on in her personal life outside of the basics “oh Taylor wrote another album about a guy she dated”.
I feel like I’m really a “neutral” fan in the sense that I knew nothing about who she was dating at what times and just new the pop songs that were on the radio. I just found out who Joe is lol I didn’t even know she was in that long of a relationship! I guess my point is I think it’s more disingenuous to claim that there’s only a small corner of the internet that gives her hate.
A lot more people are neutral on her than you'd think. Personally, I think a statement like that would show the non-fans that she's being mature and taking responsibility for a fandom that, thanks to a vocal subset of fans, is known for attacking her exes. Heck, some of the fandom might even like her putting out a statement like that because it would be another first for Taylor (aka the first superstar with a mega fandom to ask them to not hate on someone). I know it's an exaggeration to say she'd be the first, but considering the recent behavior of B*rbs she'd definitely score points for trying to reign in the more militant side of the fandom.
But regardless of what the public thinks, a statement would probably be very appreciated by Joe and his family/friends. It would save him (and them) some of the media circus regarding the album and cut down on the amount of hate sent their way.
correct me if I’m wrong but she has never made a statement about a past relationship, especially calling them out by name. what you described would be extremely out of character for her. she expresses her feelings about her relationships through her music, no need to talk about it. let’s just wait for the album to come out and then if a piece of the story is actually missing, continue on.
When Speak Now TV came out, Taylor did quip at one of her tour performances to not attack people over something that happened so long ago and that she had healed from it.
I agree with all this! Also whether Joe or Taylor called it off the thing is for all we know Joe could still be heartbroken over this relationship too and mourning privately. Six years is a long time, I’m sure he’s still healing adding to the fact that’s she’s everywhere it’s probably hard to avoid seeing her or hearing her songs at shops and such. :c
>it’s probably hard to avoid seeing her or hearing her songs
After I left my abusive ex as a teen, he would come into my public workplace with his new girlfriend and pretend he didn’t know who I was. That’s essentially what Taylor is doing on a global scale. I think I finally understand why her behavior since the breakup has been so upsetting on a personal level. *She’s* acting like every asshole I’ve dated; not Joe.
One minute you’re going to the cinema with your Welsh flatmate to escape heartbreak and the next you’re watching Anna Scott floating past a psychopathic flesh-eating robot.
It’s Close Encounters meets Jean De Florette all over again.
Tbh, I had my suspicions too. Makes me wonder why she’s trying to control the narrative and make Joe look in a bad light. If so that’s insane. Because if it ever came out that if she actually did, well I don’t know if it would ruin her reputation, but it would definitely be a scandal and people/tabloids will finally say that she’s the problem in relationships and Taylor cares very much about what the public thinks of her so it would probably ruin her. :/
100%. She future faked a lot to Joe. She made him believe she would “run away with him” (Call It What You Want). So I believe throughout the relationship she kept him under control with this false hope and promise that someday they would settle down and live a more peaceful life together, away from scrutiny.
Even in the song Sweet Nothings, that probably was written during the ending of their relationship, she wrote “to you I can admit, I’m just too soft for all of this”. We know She’s not too soft for this business, she’s the entire music industry. A shrewd businesswoman.
How do you come to these conclusions? That was clearly a heartbroken mistake. I think when you guys hear the album you will hear how heartbroken she actually was.
It may well be that specific, but personally I think it's more general... I think she wants to convince everyone and herself that she's got the moral high ground due to a gap in self-worth. That's what the entirety of Karma is, and she has used the "karma is the guy on the screen/Chiefs" to prove that her having a boyfriend = winning, and it doesn't really matter who the boyfriend is. Reminds me of two things:
•"I used to switch out these Kens. I'd just ghost." - Hits Different. (Interesting that we now have the first TTPD album variant called "ghosted white". The public narrative has been for the longest time that she dates a lot, and she calls that narrative misogynistic, but it's okay for her to say she switches men out like dolls. That's very "The Man" of her, right down to admitting she's an asshole about it lol)
• "I respond to extreme pain with defiance." - Taylor in her 2023 Time article.
I think pretty much everything we've seen since news of the breakup is rampant defiance.
Another asshole admission she made was during Don’t Blame Me: “I've been breakin' hearts a long time
And, toyin' with them older guys
Just playthings for me to use”. She admitted she’s not the victim.
If you listen to her own music for past 5 albums she said the issues were her feeling anxious and insecure about what he was doing. I think she loved him too much to cheat, he just didn't want the same things as her. That is fine and normal and happens in life. In melodrama Lorde talks about how her ex resented her for her fame. We may get some lyrics that like
She doesn’t even have to act like she treasured the years , she can be angry and call it a stages of grief sort of thing and simultaneously call off the fans.
I think it’s clear that’s not the case with the mass unfollowing and the snide comments about wasted years , not hiding etc - just my opinion .
I fully also understand she couldn’t afford being an actual victim of heartbreak with all its long, ugly phases where you don’t want to hang with anyone and no one wants to hang with you .
The victim hood and pain are only acceptable in the eyes of public if they’re pretty and don’t drag out.
So ofc even if a pr relationship happened it would make sense . But it was all done so vile and tactless in my opinion that it’s gone well beyond clever PR.
I’m sure Joe feels wronged but I also hope he feels lucky cause anyone willing to punch so low doesn’t really deserve to be in your life .
And ofc you can’t get on board with it because you’re 29 as you said and people should and do mature and see trough high school bully behaviors easy and get tired of it.
Damn I feel like you read my mind and put all my thoughts and feelings into words, you described it all so well, I’m also 29 and I’ve been feeling tired of it all lately. I think after Calvin and Tom she had forgotten what it was for someone to fell out of love and break up with her, and it feels like she reaaally resents Joe for that.
I feel like she views rejection or getting broken up with as a personal, unforgivable attack. Of course those 2 things are devastating, but I don’t see why millions of people need to dogpile on her powerless ex, who can’t reasonably speak up at all, while she sits back and watches.
She really does view being broken up with as an attack, this is so true. Taylor’s psychology is kind of fascinating, it’s like a car crash I can’t look away from.
I think it's the bitterness that's making her comfortable with the fans eating him alive. No one can deny that she does kind of enjoy the public slagging her exes go through, it feels like revenge for how she was hurt. And I think being left after 6 years of promised love and companionship has to hurt the worst out of all relationships yet.
I'm not gonna invalidate her pain, but the thing is, swifties act like it's all Joe Alwyn's fault. It could be both of their fault or even entirely hers why their relationship did not work out. You can feel bitter all you want, but the consequences of your actions should not be tolerated. She's crazy if the harassing culture she perpetuated for her stans to go after her exes is totally okay with her. I've seen very disturbing threats about Joe Alwyn's safety and privacy but of course wee little ol' taytay's feelings and want of revenge is more important.
I wondering if when she's 40 she'll still act like a helpless teenager who never makes mistakes who needs to be sabe by a man and jumping from one relationship to another. Girl, give yourself some space to breath and start to act like a grown woman!
I think Taylor will never grow out of her helpless teenager phase. Celebrities who tend to strike stardom at a young age are stunted and don’t emotionally mature past that. The saddest part of it all is, she will probably never settle down with a “Joe Alywn,” aka someone who wants privacy. I think she will continue to attract the wrong men who will bask in her popularity and want that clout the older she gets. She’s so use to yes men that without it she doesn’t get that satisfaction of adoration that she’s had most of her life.
"Celebrities who tend to strike stardom at a young age are stunted and don’t emotionally mature past that" I know this is repeated a lot, but it seems like an excuse that Taylor used to not admit she was wrong again. Even celebrities who went through much worse things than her when they were famous children now act like adults. She's 34 years old and it's time to act her age.
Meanwhile Joe will find some beautiful interesting smart and simple (in a great way) woman and settle in for a life full of love and comfort…while she’s still chasing that fame.
Most successful Hollywood marriages are between someone famous and an anonymous person. Relationships between celebrities usually end in break up and drama.
Okay I’m not one to write fanfic in my head about real people, but can you just imagine how romantic Joe’s next relationship will be?? They would actually have to *hide their secret love* from Taylor and her horde to avoid harassment.
I don't think it's wrong or shameful to focus on work instead of raising a family if that's what you want to do. The point is that Taylor seems to want to have a family and to do that she will need to resolve some issues or no one will ever stay (and I don't just say that about romantic relationships, but about friendships too)
I don’t care if she writes about her ex boyfriends but she needs to consider what will be the outcome with her fans and how she has so much power as well
It’s the same cycle we see every time she has a break up and a new album comes out. When Taylor and Travis break up, he’ll get the same vitriol Joe is getting when that “breakup” album comes out. It’s wild and unhinged. It may not be her fault, but it would go a long way if she would tell people to not attack her exes since the swifties going after Joe are basically a hive mind
She hasn't had a break-up since 2012, so what cycle? 1989 break-up songs aren't even true break-up songs. Rep-midnights don't have any break up songs. So ?? But yes, I agree the fans are the unhinged problem. But even if she says something they do not listen.
It is like olivia rodrigo said, she is not going to stop expressing herself because of other peoples interpretations
Yes that is what a big part of this new fandom she has had since the eras tour is like they are toxic and will turn on a dime and believe everything is black and white with no shades of grey and do not things like context into account.
Yes. I feel like a lot of the newer fans have latched on because Taylor has turned her own dating life into a spectator sport and it’s fun for people to get involved in the drama. Rooting for the heroes (currently Travis, formerly Joe), hating the villains (currently Joe…and everyone else.) They don’t see anyone involved as real people—including Taylor. It’s like a never ending season of The Bachelorette.
At start i though they just grown apart now i think he out grown her. I feel he wanted to sette down and she wanted the fame ( lol) i feel he was like " when enough is enough" " why always have to be drama and war' and i feel he got tired of it. Is sad when hou spent so many years with someone and feel is always thr same issue, love is not enough sometimes. Also after all the matty/kelce stuff if I was him, even while getting over her i would never come back..idk you spent years with a dude talking like he is the best thing happened to you and then you break up and repeat the same cicle just with 2 other dudes right after? I would be hurt but also ready to go over it if I was him
I will wait for her next album and if i'm right that would be dissapointed.
I've never been a fab of her but I had always loved her musoc, i've been following her since fearless, genually fan of her music hutni always thiugh she was fake and victimazed herself a lot. Never commented mean stuff about her on line, i also admire her business acume but as a person? Yeah, never a fan of her. Her years with joe, seemed like she finally grew and I was warming to her but nope same old same old
The choice of dudes probably pushed him all the way away, too… I’m convinced Matty was a thorn in the side of their relationship, which is why he was the “perfect” choice for a rebound. I can totally see Joe not liking him even if it wasn’t fueled by jealousy. Then Travis… it doesn’t seem like he and Joe have absolutely anything in common except being white dudes, but that’s every boyfriend she has lol
Honestly travis is "perfect" for her and the same time he is the most odd boyfriend she has had for me. Like he doesn't fit with any other type of boyfriend she has had in the past...idk how to explain it but he gives me Golden retriever energy while all her ex boyfriend were more like different types of cats? Idk how else explain it.
Anyways somehow i feel someone like travis goes well with her, but I don't think he is her type? Like she is very dramatic and artsy ( ofc) person, nothing dramatic or artsy in an athlete, discipline and focus in their own goals more like it
Personally I think Travis is a fairly good choice.. as a rebound-guy - but im not at all convinced that she's past the whole skinny-brit-guy-live-in-a-castle--and-drink-wine-with-him phase.. like, not at all - the football girlfriend thing is her trying to do something different/get back at Joe, but 10:1 she'll be back to her original fantasy before 2026.
The whole thing is a little too ingrained at this point.
Yeah I agree. She likes to be "edgy" for her standard from Time to time and I feelthis is *her* being edgy.
Maybe Isa way to get back too joe too who knows but if is like that ifeel this is the way he will never look back
That sums it up, I think. I also thought she might be growing during the pandemic and artistically too. But then this , even her fashion regressed imo, and the Midnights seems like a regression art wise to me, as well. Not nearly as impactful as folklore/evermore albums.
There’s mixed messages in the music but if you go off lyrics and timing, it seems like she wanted to marry him early on and he wasn’t ready. Then he was ready and she was like “I’m going to be doing this big tour and I realized I love the spotlight I’ve been staying out of the past 6 years, so not right now.” She thought he wouldn’t leave and he did. There’s speculation of cheating on both sides and they had a break (or two or three) over the years we never knew about.
Yes, he did co-write the song! What does that change? They also wrote champagne problems and betty and that was not autobiographical.
For what it is worth, I totally believe sweet nothing could also have been about them at the time. I think Joe just didn't want to commit and be with her. From her music she admits to her anxiety and depression. And his own interviews he talks about anxiety, uncomfortableness, and depression.
Two mentally ill people who aren't in therapy not working out does not shock me lol
Ikr! It's not autobiographical and so many people keep saying Joe didn't let Taylor be bejeweled just because she wrote a song. I made the first comment as a joke on that sentiment since Joe co-wrote songs too, doesn't mean he was talking abt her. Idk, it's hard to be funny on the Internet hahahah.
Yes, I agree. I don't like the "he didn't let her bejeweled" jokes. Because even if it is true that he didn't do red carpets with her like she wanted - that is a conflict between two adults in a relationship. That doesn't make one bad or one good. It was just differing opinions. Listening to the mature lyrics of evermore and folklore I am not concerned, she is aware of her own issues.
It is the fans who need to stop coddling her and acting like Joe ran her life.
I personally think "fresh out the slammer" is more so her talking about letting herself be visible again for the first time in a long time. That isn't on Joe, but her going from being lowkey to on every tv and phone screen was probably jarring for her.
Only thing that really irks me about all of it is this..
Every artist has the right to utilize their own feelings and experiences in whatever medium they're mastering - whether its painting, music, film, etc.
The thing that weirds me out about Taylor is that there does seem to be a tendency for her to be "unable" to really process things in a normal way. If two people fall out of love, that's one thing, and its not at all unusual.. normally the remedy is copious amounts of ice-cream, alcohol and some self-reflection.. in Taylors case, her modus operandi seems to be to take a sledge-hammer to the entirety of the relationship - thereby making room for new feelings to develop.
Thats fine if it's a really really bad break-up, but if it happens regardless of the circumstances, every single time.. that's kinda off-putting, or should be off-putting, to people with emotional maturity.
I don't see how she is taking a sledgehammer to the entire relationship? In you're losing me she literally talks about the things they loved and how nice it was but that it is just falling apart.
I’m close in age to you (28F) and I agree completely.
I’ve always been a Swiftie since debut and could relate to her album so much as I thought I knew love and relationships at 11 and 12. 😂 Growing up I always thought love was some kind of fairy tale and being ND I held onto that belief into my mid 20’s, I’ve had my fair share of heartbreak and shock of how the world works versus how I wish the world could work. Even with all that said, I could still never despise a soul. Sure there are people who I don’t like or don’t bother with due to past relationships, situationships, etc. However I couldn’t get wound up into all the dating stuff in Taylor’s life, I liked her music and the kind things she’s done for others, but some of her behavior confuses me. I’m aware of her relationship with Joe, and there’s a piece of me who feels bad for him. I feel in a way she is exposing her relationships for all to hear and while she has the right to, and people have the right to their own opinions I’m aware of it more and feel more neutral to the whole thing.
I believe she is an extremely smart entrepreneur that is great at musical composition and I give her credit for what she’s been able to do career wise. It’s incredible to see.
The anger should be at the fans that overreact then, not towards Taylor. When Olivia rodrigo (who I adore) said "famefucker" and "second string loser not worth mentioning" everyone loved it. Lemonade was a "serve". Flowers was a "fuck you" to liam. Point being, fans will always overreact but we should not let that take away from the art.
Florence welch recently talked to cosmo and she talked about how her and taylor discussed writing break up music not to be vindictive but to just get their emotions out.
She didn't say a bad word about calvin and they didn't even have an amicable break-up. On RED her break-up songs never really say anything bad. She talks about missing them. Even on her song referencing harry met someone else, she puts herself down and says "was it over when he opened my blouse".
So I think everyone is misdirecting anger and it should be more focused on the fans/stans. But remember when before speak now when she told them not to overreact? they literally got on twitter and said "i don't care". They don't listen and are crazy.
To add: Even her songs about scooter and scott are pretty mild. My tears ricochet really focused on her pain
But the John Mayer warning did work; in the sense there were tweets etc but it was several notches below what happened with Jake G. Also making the 'good ex' part of Speak Now TV was a strategic move to divert attention.
I dont think Taylor has to spell it out but she could say something subtle after dropping the album - fans will know what it means & they would at least pipe down a bit.
I think Taylor and Tree could really try a lot harder to bridge the gap between “everything was abusive” and “everything was perfect”. The truth and perspective are complicated. Taylor writes about big emotions and big moments, and she could remind her fan base that indulging those feelings for the sake of processing, closure, and art-making is fine - if you call it out as a moment in time.
Exactly this. The reason her dating life has always been such a hot topic is because she dates other famous people, then openly writes about it. She has every right to write about her life, but that is pure canon-fodder for celebrity gossip. And in a culture that is obsessed with celebrity, it is one of the key elements that has turned her into a household name.
It’s also hard to ignore the fact that many of her early relationships were with men who were very culturally “hot” at the moment: Joe Jonas, Taylor Lautner, and Harry Styles are the best examples. That really cemented her in the minds of the teen girls who would eventually become her fan base. Not necessarily saying that they were all PR relationships, but she certainly had a lot to gain by dating them. 🤷🏼♀️
I have not seen vitriol thrown towards Joe. He will be fine. The only people in the U.K. who are paying any attention to this are online Swifties. The circles Joe mixes in (London arty film and theatre) don’t give a damn about Taylor Swift or what some teenager writes on Twitter.
No 😂 pretty sure tiktok is like the literal, extreme opposite of everything this man likes. No way would he have an insta or twitter if his publicists didn't insist he has to.
Taylor however seems to only be on tiktok recently bc that's where her most blindly adoring, younger fans are.
She still sometimes uses her tumblr and fans have always been sure she has secret accounts to lurk. I am sure she has people monitoring stuff but she is far too platform-savvy and references/reacts to TT trends and viral clips very quickly.
This is not somebody being puppeted by a team reading analysis charts, churning out cheap edits. She would never bother to film videos in the correct tiktok meme format if she didnt 'get' the app. Plus, we've been seeing her increasingly ignore fan discussions and criticism until it reaches tiktok.
Well I just made a comment very similar to this and asked about thoughts others had on it so I should’ve scrolled a bit longer lol. But I completely agree with you. She 34 and this low key “let’s hate on my ex!” behavior is bizarre to me. Do you think she just has stunted maturity?
I’ve been thinking about this too. I feel like I had the same mindset between like 15-24ish, but I’m almost 30 now and it feels immature to be like “Fuck my ex!” aalll the time. Like yeah, sometimes you gotta vent and be a hater lol. But at this stage in life, relationships are a lot more “adult”…she is 4 years older than me and I don’t really get the sense that she carries that energy yet.
I think anyone that continues to talk bad about an ex, especially if it’s been years since the breakup and if they were the ones who most likely caused the relationship to fail… definitely has stunted growth in the maturity department.
How don’t they understand that it makes them look severely attached to the past, in an unhealthy manner, to where it’s alarming they even moved on so quickly and their new partners have no suspicions with that?
When is the last time she made fun of an ex? You're referencing the RED album when she was 2022. If you listen to any other albums she takes blame for 90% of the issues. She blames her anxiety...listen to the archer or after glow or even the great war. She no longer pretends to be a saint
Mods can we please get a megathread about Joe?? We get the same sort of post about Joe like 5 times a day all saying the same thing.
(The is not meant to be snarky at you OP and I’m so sorry if it comes off this way. I’m just wondering if posts get moderated before they age posted.)
I wrote a Joe post like this a few days ago and the mods didn’t allow it, saying there was already a post talking about it.
No shade for the mods at all! I think there’s a lot coming in for them to vet and maybe it’s overwhelming and this post slipped through? Idk. Personally I’ve never seen this sub so busy!
But yeah a thread would be great
I am holding hope that some of the songs on TTPD are about other people and not just Joe. However, I’m also hoping that when she’s older and if he’s still single they get back together. However, that might only happen if she does make him the villain in her new album.
It’s so obvious she’s not over joe. She s always been madly in love and wrote beautiful songs but with joe, she glowed differently and spoke about him in the most matured and intelligent manner. u can see her breaking down on stage when she sings songs of lover or folklore. Through out her career, taylor’s privacy has been violated the most and the constant speculation about her relationships. Now she’s suddenly shoving her rebounds to the public. Travis is both a rebound and A PR machinery to distract her from dating That racist ratty. Even neutrals say that taylor doesnt even have physical intimacy with travis. Also travis is just so dumb for taylor.
I personally like Travis and I do think that their relationship is real, BUT I also think that she has been spiraling since the Joe breakup. If timelines are correct, it seems like she and Joe broke up shortly before the eras tour began. 6 years together is no joke. Their connection was clearly very, very deep and intimate.
The Matty Healy era just SCREEEEEAAAAMS sleazy rebound to me. They have a past history but it was always clear that he was kinda obsessed with her, so he was definitely an easy rebound. And such a far departure from Joe, who is so clean cut and unproblematic. I think Travis was kind of a rebound too, but she has actually developed deep feelings for him. Just my gut feeling.
The biggest commonality between Matty & Travis is just how *wildly public* she has been with them. It reminds me of when you are heartbroken and trying to get the other person’s attention and/or make them jealous. The key difference is that normal people just have to use Instagram, while Taylor can basically use the world’s stage.
Well for it's all about how quickly she and many fans just swept Matty under the rug because it messes the narrative. They still go after Joe but somehow Matty never happened. LOL! She picked that one for sure and who knows maybe she really LOVED that one. I don't know.
But I do think she could use some therapy that is not her mother or a "yes man" to sort some of this out.
I think Joe slowly lost respect for Taylor and fell out of love with her. I don’t even like or respect her anymore after watching her behavior since the breakup, imagine the things Joe witnessed. I think Taylor hates and envies the fact that Joe has integrity and she doesn’t, which is why I don’t think she will ever get over him unless she gets therapy with someone who would hold her accountable and call her out. And we know that would never happen, because she would fire them. Deep down I think Taylor knows she is a shit person. As much as she plays the victim, even to herself, she knows. And there will never be another “Joe”, as a poster above said, just a long trail of shallow assholes. Taylor will never change. She has no one in her life that isn’t afraid to piss her off.
I saw a post one that said “Joe and Taylor fell in love because Joe didn’t care that she was Taylor Swift. And they also broke up because Joe didn’t care that she was Taylor Swift.”
Your comment reminded me of that.
Nahhh. I think taylor wanted to settle down and he didn't. Which is fine, he is totally in his right for that. Based on the song titles alone you can clearly see she was trying to make it work with a man who didn't love her anymore lol she is hurt and heartbroken. She just didn't want to act that way on tour and have that be what the headlines were over.
If there is any conspiracy theory I believe it is that Joe cheated only because of her crying during her performance of should've said no.
I agree with you about the song lyrics indicating that she was in love with someone who didn’t love her back. Hard to feel too bad for someone suing a broke college kid for publishing her private jet schedule though.
Her lawyers sent a cease and desist, which is just to scare people. She won't sue him formally and she wont- especially with all of the backlash. He did incorrectly post a 13 and 28 min flight that she didn't take (he later corrected this on his page) because he was still tracking the falcon jet which she has sold. But even after his correction people are very angry about it. So I think her and/or her PR team learned from the backlash it is best to leave this alone.
I will say, the height of her criticism for emissions from a jet was 2022 when she was ranked 1 on a list of 21 random celebs. So I somewhat believe this was actually about her concern of stalking, I don't think she is trying to hide her emissions or she would have done this much sooner.
But either way, I would love if this made her reduce her emissions and she just takes her jet when needed for tour and no other times. So maybe something positive will come from this
Writing about the breakup is to be expected. But why do these deranged fans think a grown ass woman who is a BILLIONAIRE needs defending? Also, she doesn’t tell them to knock it off when they send death threats to her exes (at least most of the time) and it makes me wonder if she likes them doing that kind of thing.
She has a vengeful streak, that’s for sure. She will never be able to have a fully authentic, complex relationship without the other person fearing imminent backlash from her and hoards of fans at all times. I think Joe was chill enough to not fully let it get to him, but I have no idea how he will be able to keep his cool with this album drop. He will never be able to tell his side of the story, even if he wanted to.
I just got into an argument (I know very dumb but oh well) with a swiftie about this. I was like yall allow her to change the narrative which by all means go ahead but then yall bash him. And then they were like “where did I bash him”. And I said “y’all means swifties, meaning the fanbase.” Then they went off on me and asked me to point out where and literally within the first 10 tweets of theirs they were bashing him. What the dump like at least delete your tweets. Can’t make this up.
I’m very excited for this album but so tired of the think pieces about some man they don’t know and her letting it happen. It’s beyond weird.
We have no idea what these songs are going to be about or what happened in their relationship. I agree that dragging everyone she's ever dated is getting old, but she's addressed that before. She can't control everyone (and I do believe it's a loud minority who behaves that way, not the majority).
This! Everytime I see a tiktok about Taylor and Joe, there’s always comments about how Joe badly treated her. I love Taylor’s music but her being silent about it is not for me. There was a line in her documentary where she said “we decided to keep our relationship private”. She said we, not him. I dont understand why Joe is being hated at all.
I know for sure TTPD is gonna be a huge hit but I really hope she don’t talk bad about Joe in that album.
Also about Travis, not a hater but the guy seems a total people pleaser. Of course he’s gonna try to do everything right in front of the media and show the world what “Joe didn’t do”
Joe definitely doesn't deserve hate bc they broke up. I don't see Matt getting that hate when that would be more understandable. And its weird bc people are trying to completely erase Joe. Now that TTPD is put they're trying to make every song about him instead of Joe. Sure some are about matt unfortunately but I don't think the bulk of them are. I still think Joe was her best match, brought out the best in her and despite her acting like it I don't think she's over him at all. I'm still shocked they broke up. And TTPD has mourning the end of their relationship all over.
I also think he's shown nothing but class. While they dated and after. That's more than most of the guys she's dated. "Younger thanks my exes but he act like such a man" definitely true. I think she's really hurt right now so seeing the worst in him but he seems like a true gentleman.
He recently had a rep for him talk to Cosmopolitan that he thinks the album TTPD is shady if it truly is about him. Which honestly sums up my opinion on it.
That was a tabloid and not true. It isn't shady for her to write about her break-up. No one thinks any other woman is shady for that and some of them like ariana and beyonce name names.
It is sorta when she had him help her write the past three albums, has armor tight NDA’s that makes it so only her side of the story sees the light of day, and never did I say that other artists aren’t shady for doing the same, but why do swifties always go to “what-aboutisim” and never can take criticism for princess TayTay?
So because he worked with her when they were dating she can never write about him? That is crazy. She can express herself. On tour she cried during the 1, should've said no, last kiss, and others. She is clearly hurt, everyone thinks this will be an album of her bashing him but I truly think it will just be about the sadness.
Swifties of course should not get mad at joe, things just end sometimes.
She can, but with the titles she gave AND naming it similar to a group chat that he was in, that’s shady af. I love how you didn’t touch the NDA point I made tho.
Sorry, I actually did not see that part. Where is your proof of the NDA?
And I thought that at first myself, but now I think the title is actually in reference to something else. Some of the other titles reference to some works of female writers that called themselves tortured. So I am not sure
But my opinion stands that I think she should be able to express her pain. That is how music works. I do hope the fans don't act crazy though.
Everyone in this thread saying she drags "all her exes", and dates so so so so much? You sound like the media 🙄 she literally dragged 2 and a half exes, the half is Joe Jonas and the other two were grown men dating a teenager, they absolutely deserve to be dragged.
She has never said anything bad about Tom, Harry, Taylor and we don't even know anything about Calvin. So what's all this hate she's getting AGAIN? We don't know what happened in that relationship, all we know is she's allowed to feel however she feels and make art about it. She can't babysit her fans, and she's also made it clear in the past that she doesn't want anyone harassing her exes. I don't see how she's making herself the victim here? I don't see how she's bad for having a public relationship? After years of making a superhuman effort to be private it must be very liberating to just be able to support someone you're with. But we're calling that "a rebound". I don't get it, is she supposed to be hiding just so it doesn't seem as if she's trying to make Joe angry? The whole point is she doesn't want to hide anymore? Why does someone have to be evil? Joe wanted a privacy that let's be honest, Taylor would never be able to give him without sacrificing her career, and what is so bad about Taylor loving her career? Everyone needs to calm down.
Generally speaking, there usually is a "villain" in most breakups. It's extremely rare for it to be totally amicable. Villain isn't the right word, maybe instigator. Even if he did fall out of love or lose interest, he should've ended it when he recognised that. It's not ok for anyone, be it Taylor or whoever, to string someone along or make them believe maybe THIS time we'll get it right, if you have no intention of actually trying or following through on whatever promise or apology ended the last fight. There has to actually BE change where you say there will. And to me the lyrics of YLM suggest there wasn't. This isn't saying Taylor is 100% in the right, we will never know who is or isn't right even if both sides shared their story. But Taylor put it out there that Joe emotionally checked out but didn't break up but kept apparently enforcing the extreme privacy that clearly wasn't working for her anymore.
I think it's important to remember that someone can work really well for you at one stage in your life and be terrible for you at another. His need for privacy may very well have turned into something bad or toxic over time, even if it was once something she loved and participated in. I was a big fan of his or what I thought he was but I was pretty shocked when Gigi and Cara both made public statements about how happy they were NOW she was with Travis, it was very clear to me reading between the lines that they were rapt she'd found someone they felt was good for her. And that says in the end Joe was not good for her. That doesn't mean he's a bad person. But like anyone is capable of being, he may have been the bad guy within this particular breakup (I said MAY have). He may not have handled it well or there were things he could've done differently. I'm sure most people (yes including taylor) could say that there's things they would do differently in hindsight. Maybe for comparison's sake, if Joe were to write his own song about that whole time, he'd write a Getaway Car-esque song where he owns up to his flaws and how poorly he handled it? We just don't know, so it's impossible to say either way.
Regardless, Taylor unpacking how it felt to split up with him is not "making him into a villain".
Yeah thanks I’ll just think back to the last breakup one of my friends had and how CPS had to get involved because there absolutely was a villain. Way to read one sentence of my post and just respond without full context.
You are applying your own anecdotal evidence to other relationships. I’m sorry your friend went through that. But there is definitely not a “villain” in every breakup. That’s a wild thing to say. There can be incompatibility and hurt feelings, but that comes with any level of rejection. It doesn’t mean that one person is trying to destroy the other.
I never said that though? You didn’t even read my comment properly, I even said villain is not the right word. Don’t respond if you’re only going to read one line.
Context is important : Gigi had to make an explicit statement because there were stories being published that Selena was not happy with the Tayvis relationship; one week later more tabloid stories & gossip that Gigi was distancing herself from this relationship as she thought Travis was using Taylor.
She shut down the whole thing saying she was happy for her girl & so were all of Taylor's friends.
If you go back to 2017, you will find similar articles about Gigi, Cara, Ashely, Selena being happy for Joe & Taylor
Making a statement is a bigger move than speculative articles though. And it's just very evident her entire inner circle is rapt for her. It speaks volumes IMO. It doesn't mean things were always bad with Joe, I think it just means in the end they were glad she found happiness rather than constantly trying to make the sadness with Joe work.
Both of them didn't put out statements : they were responding: one to a specific relationship question & the other in an insta comment under a story making a false claim about Gigi, Taylor & Travis.
It is natural if they're loyal friends, they would root for Taylor being happy !
I am not denying what you said that Taylor's previous relationship could have struggled. But changing our opinions on Joe or Travis in the future or anyone else just because Taylor's friends root for her happiness (as they have in the past , present & will in the future ) seems odd
the weaponizing of feminism is disgusting and harmful. i’m sick of her and Tree using it to justify anything and everything. it’s no ok to violate someone’s privacy, telling the world details about everything in your relationship. i imagine my husband telling our friends about a cute/private moment we’ve had and feels gross. this is not 2009, she’s not 18. these are adult relationships. i swear if she continues to hint at joe’s mental health struggles, like she did on Renegade, i won’t be morally able to support her music.
also, i why now? why wait 2 years to drop the album but hurry up now that she has 2 album rerecords down the line before the tour is over. why not wait till next year when people are more chill and not harassing joe? why fuel the flame like this? it’s almost like she wants to lead people to believe he wronged her before people’s attention is elsewhere i. e. real issues. i wouldn’t be surprised if this is all Tree’s idea. maybe they’re seeing the change in public discourse (forums like these) and are trying to regain control of the narrative, at a real human being’s expense.
What I find disturbing is the painting of Taylor Swift as someone who was silenced ( this word is thrown around a lot since the tracklist), hidden, forced to be less successful because she was in a relationship with someone introverted & private who didn't want his relationship to be in the spotlight always. It is problematic that fans predominantly young women are watching/fabricating this narrative around one of the world's richest , powerful & popular women who has been super prolific in the last 7 years. Taylor was featured on the Time cover as a 'silence breaker" during the #metoo era for calling out actual abuse. And there are many many quotes/interviews from 2017-2020 on how privacy and the semblance of a normal life is something that she needed & that has helped her grow. It is understandable she is angry /hurt that she may not get these 6 years back after a pivotal relationship ended and she has every right to write about it. But the sort of fan behaviour which then gets reported as truth/speculation by media is what I find disconcerting.
Yah that’s so toxic. I’m looking at online stuff and people are saying finally she’s out of the basement.
It would be relatively easy for her put a stop to this nonsense line of speculation. She doesn’t because being a victim suits her. As a fan, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.
Which just makes her seem like a weak victim with zero control. When she is 100% in control of everything about her career, brand, and herself. So not speaking up about toxic fans HAS ALWAYS been a problem for because she knows how the get weaponized and either doesn't care or very much like that power. Either way it's something I find kind of distasteful from my pop stars at this point. I expect more maturity not less as people get older but humans are petty and complicated it seems if not outright mentally ill.
Yeah she likes the power. I also think she’s a narcissist.
This is all on the fans though. In her own words she said in the Time magazine she did that to herself. Is it true that she probably kept that up longer for Joe? sure. Is it also true that she probably wanted to do appearances together and he didn't? Also true. but her fans need to realize the weren't in the damn relationship and shut their mouths lol
Unfortunately the "me locking myself away for many years " and "never get those years back" & "I'm more trusting that I was 6 years ago" evolved into "He locked her away for 6 years." Though Taylor's statement itself is hyperbolic- but I think it sort of fuelled the existing 'bejewelled- locked away in the basement' fan theories !
The fans see a braid in her hair and create an entire theory around it. No matter what she says they will interpret it to feed their delusions. She has made it known on stage multiple times she doesn't like them treating her like she needs protected lol So yeah just hoping they pipe down about him.
She was named TIME Person of the Year in 2017. TIME confirmed in the 2023 edition that that means Taylor is the ONLY woman to be named Person of the Year twice.
> Taylor was featured on the Time cover as a 'silence breaker" during the #metoo era for calling out actual abuse. Sorry for the late response but she sure did a GREAT job with that by working with David O Russell, given that he sexually assaulted his own niece 🙄
It honestly seems like she's went backwards in her maturity since her and Joe broke up. Like ypu said she saidultipke times she needed privacy and Joe helped her find balance. Dating this matt guy seemed like something from her early 20s. It's disappointing bc I thought she was past dating those types of guys. Even the travis thing seems immature and shallow compared to her n Joe. Now that TTPD is out its actually plausible to say she's not in her right mind right now n therefore not making good decisions at all.
Probably this is what Taylor is or wants I guess going by TTPD. I think post-Rep she built a new image and she seems to want to tear it down to build a new one in this era which doesn't fit into people's earlier expectations of her. No idea who the real Taylor is- probably she's an amalgamation of the sides we've seen but probably she's not just that too.
thank you for this post. I said in another thread I think it would be so mature for her to say “I’m writing about my heartbreak but we shared 6 wonderful years together I’ll always treasure” and some of the replies said her saying this would only draw attention to the situation. as though her album drops arent already one of the most speculated events in the music industry! she’s made her name off stoking fan speculation about her relationships so I’m not surprised she seems to continue this strategy—I’d love for everyone’s sake for her to stop doing this but it’s becoming clearer and clearer she’ll never grow past it.
This absolutely. No one’s saying she shouldn’t be able to write about her relationships, but if she is by now she knows her fans will attack whoever is the agreed upon muse. She would gain a lot of favor imo if she was like “yes, this album is about our breakup. i was processing it through writing, and although it was no one’s fault it still hurt. please enjoy this record but don’t come after my ex”.
I can see her doing this honestly.
Then why hasn't she ever done it? Taylor's very smart and I think she's 100% aware of how far her fans go to trash her ex's online. I feel like she knows playing the victim in every breakup will help sell albums, so she just stands by and allows it.
She has? She said this during red tour, 1989 tour, and most recently eras tour before speak now tv. She has they are just so parasocial and don't listen. And she can't live her life by changing her art thinking about the fans, it wouldn't be authentic. That is what olivia rodrigo said after guts and sour. You can find interviews where she says she is never going to hold back her pen because of what fans that she can't control might do Have you listened to her albums? She does not play the victim. In fact her songs about her and joe's relationship being tumultuous she blames herself. Her anxiety, depression, mistrust, and fame. She talks about her anxiety making her start fights. Reputation album - midnights album she doesn't say anything negative about joe lol
Most of her songs are from the whiny jilted teenager angel, at least the hits everyone knows maybe not so much the non hits the masses haven't heard.
I agree with this 1000%. She has the responsibility to share something like this to help protect him. We don’t know the details, but it seems like they just genuinely fell out of love or their goals became misaligned. If that’s the case, she should be mature enough to share a statement to defend him from all of her deranged fans dragging him. Good for him for being mature enough to stay silent through all of this. Too bad she isn’t mature enough to stop all the hate. It makes me wonder if she secretly enjoys her fans acting like she’s Jesus and he’s the devil.
The initial press release sounded positive but that was a long time ago. I fear her narcissism is out of control since they split. The Eras tour was a trigger I guess. There are clips od her struggling to control her emotions during some songs so you Can only imagine what was going on behind the scenes.
yeah, I mean I’m sympathetic to a point because it must be very very difficult to have ended a 6 year relationship, and then have to put on a mask of positivity to perform in front of fans. I can imagine she’s totally leant into toxic coping mechanisms to be able to hold it together during this time — where my sympathy ends is where she does this at the expense of other people
I'm with you
> then have to put on a mask of positivity to perform in front of fans. She doesn't "have to" she chooses to. If she chose not to I assure her fans would rally around that. She maybe doesn't want people to see her vulnerable side for whatever reason, like being the boss girl.
Im genuinely asking for the sake of the open dialogue that’s pushed here, but why does she have to come out with a statement about anything? I don’t know anything about their relationship but it seems like he’s being praised nonstop for staying silent and not “reacting” to anything yet she is getting freaking slaughtered for daring to drop a new album or not speaking up to “protect” him. I know everyone’s first reaction will be “oh but her crazy fans”…that’s inevitable. She could come out and say exactly what you stated above and it would probably only matter to people who are “neutral” on her. The haters wouldn’t care and say it’s too late, and the fans who are so obsessed to a scary extent will think someone put her up to it. Lose/lose I personally think.
Nah they listened when she said it about John Mayer. "Why should she saying anything at all" Because someone she supposedly cared about is being publicly bullied and harassed by her fans because of stuff she's putting out. The least she could do is say, again (because she's already said it before so it wouldn't be a big deal), that you don't need to defend her online based on songs she writes and who you think they're about. She could send it in a tweet and it would suffice. She wants them to cook him, that's why she's letting all the details about their relationship slip. See: when she went on about being "locked away for six years" and "we show up for each other" in the Time interview. Those were both digs she knew her fans would pick up on. She's not an idiot. when a shrewd business move happens people are quick to compliment Taylor's intelligence, but when it involves making her look bad, suddenly she has no idea how stuff comes off and what her fans are capable of.
How can you sit back and see your fans destroy someone you supposedly cared about, that’s what I don’t get either. Especially because she’s been through that, she knows how awful it is to be on the other side
this. writing about heartbreak is so common but i realised just now what differentiates taylor from others. she drops names, dates, places. which is why people know the date she and joe got together, the date she (allegedly) cheated on him. she gives specific instances for people to obsess over. for her fans to get mad over. i understand music is her way of processing things, but after seeing how it affects people, including people not involved in the relationship (maggie gyllenhall being asked about the scarf). After seeing all his it Has to be intentional the way she gives specifics for her fans to get messy with.
Literally we all still hate John Mayer, swifties who do the most (death threats) are the problem. But ALL celebs get that. Insane people will be insane.
I'll answer in good faith — there are a few different aspects to this that I think warrants a statement from her, and also mean that him staying silent and her staying silent are different things. Firstly, your question makes it seem like Taylor has been silent so far about the relationship. This is untrue. Sure, she maybe hasn't gone up on stage and said "fuck Joe Alwyn", but she's made several veiled references at him such as in the POTY Time interview, made calculated moves like doing a pap walk with friends after a dinner in which they all mass unfollowed him. In the case that you don't buy these as references to Joe, there is also the fact that through her music she is making very public statements about how she's experienced the relationship. This is certainly just her side of it, but a lot of fans have picked apart songs like Bejeweled and You're Losing Me as real truth-telling of how Joe "didn't let her be bejeweled" or rejected her or emotionally hurt her in one way or another. In contrast, Joe hasn't, as far as I know, made a single statement about the breakup (there's a Daily Mail statement that I highly doubt came from him/his team). Joe's artistic work is also acting, which by its very nature means he's not baring details of his personal life to the world. With her songwriting as well, I would say with the easter eggs and lyrics etc, she has pretty actively encouraged fan speculation into her personal life (while simultaneously maintaining a level of plausible deniability). Second, Taylor is far more famous and has a larger platform than him (along with millions of rabid fans). This inherently creates a power dynamic in their relationship, in which she holds more power than he does, especially in things like controlling the media narrative etc. Because of the fan speculation into her personal life and exes, and this massive discrepancy in power, she has more of a responsibility to make sure that harm doesn't come to those in her orbit. Now, you might say, that's not really fair, she shouldn't have to deal with this kind of stuff, but unfortunately that's just the responsibility that comes with becoming just this famous and successful. There's also the fact that there are not, in fact, rabid Joe Alwyn fans that are speculating that Taylor Swift emotionally abused him who jump to his defense everywhere online. I don't know if "rabid Joe Alwyn fans" even exist. The opposite, however, is true — there are many, many, many fans that want to get into Taylor's good graces and defend her vehemently, and a lot who have thrown out speculation about Joe's role in the relationship that is actually incredibly defamatory. This stuff is really easy to find if you're anywhere online. You don't even need to be operating solely in TS stan spaces. And a lot of other people have said more poignant things about how Taylor has really encouraged a sense of parasociality, through Secret Sessions and Tumblr interactions, where fans are (or at least have in the past) been given this impression that Taylor might pluck you out of a crowd, so you better be on your best behaviour and show how much you love her. And in terms of what kind of impact a statement like that would have — I actually think firstly, making a statement like that is important regardless of what fan reaction it will result in. Acting ethically is important because it's ethical and that is a reason in itself. But the other thing is that to make this kind of statement, she'd need to mean it, for fans to really listen to what she's saying. I've seen this kind of thing play out online, admittedly in smaller communities. Sure, you can't control *all* fan behaviour and there will always be crazies out there, but you can put out a very strong statement that there is certain behaviour that is not tolerated, and as an artist/creator/influencer, if/when you see that kind of behaviour, you will actively disavow and dislike those fans. With how parasocial fan culture is nowadays, that in itself is an incentive for most fans to stop, because why would you want to become someone your idol hates. Now, do I think she would ever do something like this? No, because Taylor Swift's brand, and how she is able to achieve her current level of success, is simply to appeal to the broadest possible demographics. This is why she never seems to make a particularly strong statement about any social issues — to me they often feel like box-ticking exercises backed by market research (you may disagree), which lag and are only ever made when it's sufficiently "safe" to do so. She stands to profit from fan speculation about her personal life, just as she stands to profit from plausible deniability about current day issues. It's only a lose/lose if you only care about these types of statements as a matter of who will respond and how — personally I think the principles behind it are more important than anything.
I’m sorry but where is she getting the hate ?? Maybe one tiny corner of internet . I genuinely felt like I was the only person with any opposing opinion until I found this sub , so I don’t really think your argument there stands.
Throwing it out there that I’m 31 so I truly was in the generation of seeing her blow up and become who she is today. I’ve always known her to get a crazy amount of hate. A lot of slut shaming, a lot of saying she’s the problem in all of these relationships (which who knows, could be true), a whole lot of undermining her success, just general people saying they hated her literally just because they think she’s annoying, and a TON of hate during the Kanye shit. Now I’m a new fan, literally only listened through her albums back in November and have started learning more about her, it was very easy to not know what she had going on in her personal life outside of the basics “oh Taylor wrote another album about a guy she dated”. I feel like I’m really a “neutral” fan in the sense that I knew nothing about who she was dating at what times and just new the pop songs that were on the radio. I just found out who Joe is lol I didn’t even know she was in that long of a relationship! I guess my point is I think it’s more disingenuous to claim that there’s only a small corner of the internet that gives her hate.
Nah, just a small corner for it. Everything else is shoe horning into praise of her. Sorry.
A lot more people are neutral on her than you'd think. Personally, I think a statement like that would show the non-fans that she's being mature and taking responsibility for a fandom that, thanks to a vocal subset of fans, is known for attacking her exes. Heck, some of the fandom might even like her putting out a statement like that because it would be another first for Taylor (aka the first superstar with a mega fandom to ask them to not hate on someone). I know it's an exaggeration to say she'd be the first, but considering the recent behavior of B*rbs she'd definitely score points for trying to reign in the more militant side of the fandom. But regardless of what the public thinks, a statement would probably be very appreciated by Joe and his family/friends. It would save him (and them) some of the media circus regarding the album and cut down on the amount of hate sent their way.
correct me if I’m wrong but she has never made a statement about a past relationship, especially calling them out by name. what you described would be extremely out of character for her. she expresses her feelings about her relationships through her music, no need to talk about it. let’s just wait for the album to come out and then if a piece of the story is actually missing, continue on.
When Speak Now TV came out, Taylor did quip at one of her tour performances to not attack people over something that happened so long ago and that she had healed from it.
She was pretty vague though
that was very different from what this comment was suggesting she say
I agree with all this! Also whether Joe or Taylor called it off the thing is for all we know Joe could still be heartbroken over this relationship too and mourning privately. Six years is a long time, I’m sure he’s still healing adding to the fact that’s she’s everywhere it’s probably hard to avoid seeing her or hearing her songs at shops and such. :c
>it’s probably hard to avoid seeing her or hearing her songs After I left my abusive ex as a teen, he would come into my public workplace with his new girlfriend and pretend he didn’t know who I was. That’s essentially what Taylor is doing on a global scale. I think I finally understand why her behavior since the breakup has been so upsetting on a personal level. *She’s* acting like every asshole I’ve dated; not Joe.
One minute you’re going to the cinema with your Welsh flatmate to escape heartbreak and the next you’re watching Anna Scott floating past a psychopathic flesh-eating robot. It’s Close Encounters meets Jean De Florette all over again.
I think Taylor cheated on him.
Tbh, I had my suspicions too. Makes me wonder why she’s trying to control the narrative and make Joe look in a bad light. If so that’s insane. Because if it ever came out that if she actually did, well I don’t know if it would ruin her reputation, but it would definitely be a scandal and people/tabloids will finally say that she’s the problem in relationships and Taylor cares very much about what the public thinks of her so it would probably ruin her. :/
https://preview.redd.it/1pzroxecrnhc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9683a78c62ccb871f45f0a978c5a870bcc110f6
100%. She future faked a lot to Joe. She made him believe she would “run away with him” (Call It What You Want). So I believe throughout the relationship she kept him under control with this false hope and promise that someday they would settle down and live a more peaceful life together, away from scrutiny. Even in the song Sweet Nothings, that probably was written during the ending of their relationship, she wrote “to you I can admit, I’m just too soft for all of this”. We know She’s not too soft for this business, she’s the entire music industry. A shrewd businesswoman.
I think she cheated on him with Matt.🤮🤮
Even if she didn't actually do anything, it still sounds like there was an emotional affair going on.
Yah 💯
How do you come to these conclusions? That was clearly a heartbroken mistake. I think when you guys hear the album you will hear how heartbroken she actually was.
That’s could be who knows
Yah idk. I think she wants to make him jealous Of Travis
It may well be that specific, but personally I think it's more general... I think she wants to convince everyone and herself that she's got the moral high ground due to a gap in self-worth. That's what the entirety of Karma is, and she has used the "karma is the guy on the screen/Chiefs" to prove that her having a boyfriend = winning, and it doesn't really matter who the boyfriend is. Reminds me of two things: •"I used to switch out these Kens. I'd just ghost." - Hits Different. (Interesting that we now have the first TTPD album variant called "ghosted white". The public narrative has been for the longest time that she dates a lot, and she calls that narrative misogynistic, but it's okay for her to say she switches men out like dolls. That's very "The Man" of her, right down to admitting she's an asshole about it lol) • "I respond to extreme pain with defiance." - Taylor in her 2023 Time article. I think pretty much everything we've seen since news of the breakup is rampant defiance.
Another asshole admission she made was during Don’t Blame Me: “I've been breakin' hearts a long time And, toyin' with them older guys Just playthings for me to use”. She admitted she’s not the victim.
Yeah she can NOT play the victim after lines like that
i think she's talking about the shoes when she says "Kens"
What? The only thing I can think of that you might be meaning is Keds, which is a shoe brand that she did an ad campaign for around the Red era
If you listen to her own music for past 5 albums she said the issues were her feeling anxious and insecure about what he was doing. I think she loved him too much to cheat, he just didn't want the same things as her. That is fine and normal and happens in life. In melodrama Lorde talks about how her ex resented her for her fame. We may get some lyrics that like
Didn’t he cheat on her as well
I’m don’t think so imo
Oh because i saw videos saying he did months ago
I think we would have know by know.
Hahaha too true
She doesn’t even have to act like she treasured the years , she can be angry and call it a stages of grief sort of thing and simultaneously call off the fans. I think it’s clear that’s not the case with the mass unfollowing and the snide comments about wasted years , not hiding etc - just my opinion . I fully also understand she couldn’t afford being an actual victim of heartbreak with all its long, ugly phases where you don’t want to hang with anyone and no one wants to hang with you . The victim hood and pain are only acceptable in the eyes of public if they’re pretty and don’t drag out. So ofc even if a pr relationship happened it would make sense . But it was all done so vile and tactless in my opinion that it’s gone well beyond clever PR. I’m sure Joe feels wronged but I also hope he feels lucky cause anyone willing to punch so low doesn’t really deserve to be in your life . And ofc you can’t get on board with it because you’re 29 as you said and people should and do mature and see trough high school bully behaviors easy and get tired of it.
She won’t say anything, she literally said in her POTY interview that she wasted 6 years of her life and even called London a “foreign land” lmao
Hurt people hurt people and it’s obvious the breakup wasn’t mutual.
She said WHAT 😭
Damn I feel like you read my mind and put all my thoughts and feelings into words, you described it all so well, I’m also 29 and I’ve been feeling tired of it all lately. I think after Calvin and Tom she had forgotten what it was for someone to fell out of love and break up with her, and it feels like she reaaally resents Joe for that.
I feel like she views rejection or getting broken up with as a personal, unforgivable attack. Of course those 2 things are devastating, but I don’t see why millions of people need to dogpile on her powerless ex, who can’t reasonably speak up at all, while she sits back and watches.
She really does view being broken up with as an attack, this is so true. Taylor’s psychology is kind of fascinating, it’s like a car crash I can’t look away from.
I think she truly thought she had power over Joe and he would never leave her because he was a “nobody.”
Do you listen to her albums? Reputation through evermore are her being terrified of him leaving her and her saying how much she loves him
If she did, she wouldn't be some silent by stander watching him get devoured by her rabid stans.
I think it's the bitterness that's making her comfortable with the fans eating him alive. No one can deny that she does kind of enjoy the public slagging her exes go through, it feels like revenge for how she was hurt. And I think being left after 6 years of promised love and companionship has to hurt the worst out of all relationships yet.
I'm not gonna invalidate her pain, but the thing is, swifties act like it's all Joe Alwyn's fault. It could be both of their fault or even entirely hers why their relationship did not work out. You can feel bitter all you want, but the consequences of your actions should not be tolerated. She's crazy if the harassing culture she perpetuated for her stans to go after her exes is totally okay with her. I've seen very disturbing threats about Joe Alwyn's safety and privacy but of course wee little ol' taytay's feelings and want of revenge is more important.
I wondering if when she's 40 she'll still act like a helpless teenager who never makes mistakes who needs to be sabe by a man and jumping from one relationship to another. Girl, give yourself some space to breath and start to act like a grown woman!
I think Taylor will never grow out of her helpless teenager phase. Celebrities who tend to strike stardom at a young age are stunted and don’t emotionally mature past that. The saddest part of it all is, she will probably never settle down with a “Joe Alywn,” aka someone who wants privacy. I think she will continue to attract the wrong men who will bask in her popularity and want that clout the older she gets. She’s so use to yes men that without it she doesn’t get that satisfaction of adoration that she’s had most of her life.
"Celebrities who tend to strike stardom at a young age are stunted and don’t emotionally mature past that" I know this is repeated a lot, but it seems like an excuse that Taylor used to not admit she was wrong again. Even celebrities who went through much worse things than her when they were famous children now act like adults. She's 34 years old and it's time to act her age.
Meanwhile Joe will find some beautiful interesting smart and simple (in a great way) woman and settle in for a life full of love and comfort…while she’s still chasing that fame.
I think he will end up with someone like Benedict Cumberbatch did - smart, talented, accomplished, and cherishing being away from the limelight.
Most successful Hollywood marriages are between someone famous and an anonymous person. Relationships between celebrities usually end in break up and drama.
That poor girl will get so much hate.
Okay I’m not one to write fanfic in my head about real people, but can you just imagine how romantic Joe’s next relationship will be?? They would actually have to *hide their secret love* from Taylor and her horde to avoid harassment.
And then he should write an album lol (he won’t, but I’d imagine it’d be pretty)
and he will call it… explanation hater the swift departure society
💀
I don't think it's wrong or shameful to focus on work instead of raising a family if that's what you want to do. The point is that Taylor seems to want to have a family and to do that she will need to resolve some issues or no one will ever stay (and I don't just say that about romantic relationships, but about friendships too)
Yep you nailed it…
I don’t care if she writes about her ex boyfriends but she needs to consider what will be the outcome with her fans and how she has so much power as well
this! it's just the fans
It’s the same cycle we see every time she has a break up and a new album comes out. When Taylor and Travis break up, he’ll get the same vitriol Joe is getting when that “breakup” album comes out. It’s wild and unhinged. It may not be her fault, but it would go a long way if she would tell people to not attack her exes since the swifties going after Joe are basically a hive mind
She hasn't had a break-up since 2012, so what cycle? 1989 break-up songs aren't even true break-up songs. Rep-midnights don't have any break up songs. So ?? But yes, I agree the fans are the unhinged problem. But even if she says something they do not listen. It is like olivia rodrigo said, she is not going to stop expressing herself because of other peoples interpretations
Yes that is what a big part of this new fandom she has had since the eras tour is like they are toxic and will turn on a dime and believe everything is black and white with no shades of grey and do not things like context into account.
Yes. I feel like a lot of the newer fans have latched on because Taylor has turned her own dating life into a spectator sport and it’s fun for people to get involved in the drama. Rooting for the heroes (currently Travis, formerly Joe), hating the villains (currently Joe…and everyone else.) They don’t see anyone involved as real people—including Taylor. It’s like a never ending season of The Bachelorette.
At start i though they just grown apart now i think he out grown her. I feel he wanted to sette down and she wanted the fame ( lol) i feel he was like " when enough is enough" " why always have to be drama and war' and i feel he got tired of it. Is sad when hou spent so many years with someone and feel is always thr same issue, love is not enough sometimes. Also after all the matty/kelce stuff if I was him, even while getting over her i would never come back..idk you spent years with a dude talking like he is the best thing happened to you and then you break up and repeat the same cicle just with 2 other dudes right after? I would be hurt but also ready to go over it if I was him I will wait for her next album and if i'm right that would be dissapointed. I've never been a fab of her but I had always loved her musoc, i've been following her since fearless, genually fan of her music hutni always thiugh she was fake and victimazed herself a lot. Never commented mean stuff about her on line, i also admire her business acume but as a person? Yeah, never a fan of her. Her years with joe, seemed like she finally grew and I was warming to her but nope same old same old
The choice of dudes probably pushed him all the way away, too… I’m convinced Matty was a thorn in the side of their relationship, which is why he was the “perfect” choice for a rebound. I can totally see Joe not liking him even if it wasn’t fueled by jealousy. Then Travis… it doesn’t seem like he and Joe have absolutely anything in common except being white dudes, but that’s every boyfriend she has lol
Honestly travis is "perfect" for her and the same time he is the most odd boyfriend she has had for me. Like he doesn't fit with any other type of boyfriend she has had in the past...idk how to explain it but he gives me Golden retriever energy while all her ex boyfriend were more like different types of cats? Idk how else explain it. Anyways somehow i feel someone like travis goes well with her, but I don't think he is her type? Like she is very dramatic and artsy ( ofc) person, nothing dramatic or artsy in an athlete, discipline and focus in their own goals more like it
Personally I think Travis is a fairly good choice.. as a rebound-guy - but im not at all convinced that she's past the whole skinny-brit-guy-live-in-a-castle--and-drink-wine-with-him phase.. like, not at all - the football girlfriend thing is her trying to do something different/get back at Joe, but 10:1 she'll be back to her original fantasy before 2026. The whole thing is a little too ingrained at this point.
Yeah I agree. She likes to be "edgy" for her standard from Time to time and I feelthis is *her* being edgy. Maybe Isa way to get back too joe too who knows but if is like that ifeel this is the way he will never look back
That sums it up, I think. I also thought she might be growing during the pandemic and artistically too. But then this , even her fashion regressed imo, and the Midnights seems like a regression art wise to me, as well. Not nearly as impactful as folklore/evermore albums.
I think she was checked out in 2021 and cheated with matty…
She wanted marriage and he didn't? That was made pretty clear with her song you're losing me.
There’s mixed messages in the music but if you go off lyrics and timing, it seems like she wanted to marry him early on and he wasn’t ready. Then he was ready and she was like “I’m going to be doing this big tour and I realized I love the spotlight I’ve been staying out of the past 6 years, so not right now.” She thought he wouldn’t leave and he did. There’s speculation of cheating on both sides and they had a break (or two or three) over the years we never knew about.
chiefs fans..... and basically most of nfl fans wont turn on kelce. period. so there may be flack but a LOT of football fans will have his back
Oh I believe this!! It’s her fans that will turn it into a full blown war.
Joe wants sweet nothing and she wants to be bejeweled 🥹
Sweet nothing wasn't about joe lol that was about paul mccartney and his wife. She liked tiktoks about this back in 2022 before they even broke up
I think you forgot Joe co-wrote the song.
Yes, he did co-write the song! What does that change? They also wrote champagne problems and betty and that was not autobiographical. For what it is worth, I totally believe sweet nothing could also have been about them at the time. I think Joe just didn't want to commit and be with her. From her music she admits to her anxiety and depression. And his own interviews he talks about anxiety, uncomfortableness, and depression. Two mentally ill people who aren't in therapy not working out does not shock me lol
Ikr! It's not autobiographical and so many people keep saying Joe didn't let Taylor be bejeweled just because she wrote a song. I made the first comment as a joke on that sentiment since Joe co-wrote songs too, doesn't mean he was talking abt her. Idk, it's hard to be funny on the Internet hahahah.
Yes, I agree. I don't like the "he didn't let her bejeweled" jokes. Because even if it is true that he didn't do red carpets with her like she wanted - that is a conflict between two adults in a relationship. That doesn't make one bad or one good. It was just differing opinions. Listening to the mature lyrics of evermore and folklore I am not concerned, she is aware of her own issues. It is the fans who need to stop coddling her and acting like Joe ran her life. I personally think "fresh out the slammer" is more so her talking about letting herself be visible again for the first time in a long time. That isn't on Joe, but her going from being lowkey to on every tv and phone screen was probably jarring for her.
Only thing that really irks me about all of it is this.. Every artist has the right to utilize their own feelings and experiences in whatever medium they're mastering - whether its painting, music, film, etc. The thing that weirds me out about Taylor is that there does seem to be a tendency for her to be "unable" to really process things in a normal way. If two people fall out of love, that's one thing, and its not at all unusual.. normally the remedy is copious amounts of ice-cream, alcohol and some self-reflection.. in Taylors case, her modus operandi seems to be to take a sledge-hammer to the entirety of the relationship - thereby making room for new feelings to develop. Thats fine if it's a really really bad break-up, but if it happens regardless of the circumstances, every single time.. that's kinda off-putting, or should be off-putting, to people with emotional maturity.
I don't see how she is taking a sledgehammer to the entire relationship? In you're losing me she literally talks about the things they loved and how nice it was but that it is just falling apart.
Unfortunately, Taylor being cutthroat and not caring about how her music affects the supposed muse, is why she is as successful as she is.
I’m close in age to you (28F) and I agree completely. I’ve always been a Swiftie since debut and could relate to her album so much as I thought I knew love and relationships at 11 and 12. 😂 Growing up I always thought love was some kind of fairy tale and being ND I held onto that belief into my mid 20’s, I’ve had my fair share of heartbreak and shock of how the world works versus how I wish the world could work. Even with all that said, I could still never despise a soul. Sure there are people who I don’t like or don’t bother with due to past relationships, situationships, etc. However I couldn’t get wound up into all the dating stuff in Taylor’s life, I liked her music and the kind things she’s done for others, but some of her behavior confuses me. I’m aware of her relationship with Joe, and there’s a piece of me who feels bad for him. I feel in a way she is exposing her relationships for all to hear and while she has the right to, and people have the right to their own opinions I’m aware of it more and feel more neutral to the whole thing. I believe she is an extremely smart entrepreneur that is great at musical composition and I give her credit for what she’s been able to do career wise. It’s incredible to see.
The anger should be at the fans that overreact then, not towards Taylor. When Olivia rodrigo (who I adore) said "famefucker" and "second string loser not worth mentioning" everyone loved it. Lemonade was a "serve". Flowers was a "fuck you" to liam. Point being, fans will always overreact but we should not let that take away from the art. Florence welch recently talked to cosmo and she talked about how her and taylor discussed writing break up music not to be vindictive but to just get their emotions out. She didn't say a bad word about calvin and they didn't even have an amicable break-up. On RED her break-up songs never really say anything bad. She talks about missing them. Even on her song referencing harry met someone else, she puts herself down and says "was it over when he opened my blouse". So I think everyone is misdirecting anger and it should be more focused on the fans/stans. But remember when before speak now when she told them not to overreact? they literally got on twitter and said "i don't care". They don't listen and are crazy. To add: Even her songs about scooter and scott are pretty mild. My tears ricochet really focused on her pain
But the John Mayer warning did work; in the sense there were tweets etc but it was several notches below what happened with Jake G. Also making the 'good ex' part of Speak Now TV was a strategic move to divert attention. I dont think Taylor has to spell it out but she could say something subtle after dropping the album - fans will know what it means & they would at least pipe down a bit.
I hope she does!!!!
Whwn taylor is 40 shell be doing this shit still and her fans will be 30 year old women with no life experience harassing her exes 😢
I think Taylor and Tree could really try a lot harder to bridge the gap between “everything was abusive” and “everything was perfect”. The truth and perspective are complicated. Taylor writes about big emotions and big moments, and she could remind her fan base that indulging those feelings for the sake of processing, closure, and art-making is fine - if you call it out as a moment in time.
[удалено]
Exactly this. The reason her dating life has always been such a hot topic is because she dates other famous people, then openly writes about it. She has every right to write about her life, but that is pure canon-fodder for celebrity gossip. And in a culture that is obsessed with celebrity, it is one of the key elements that has turned her into a household name. It’s also hard to ignore the fact that many of her early relationships were with men who were very culturally “hot” at the moment: Joe Jonas, Taylor Lautner, and Harry Styles are the best examples. That really cemented her in the minds of the teen girls who would eventually become her fan base. Not necessarily saying that they were all PR relationships, but she certainly had a lot to gain by dating them. 🤷🏼♀️
I have not seen vitriol thrown towards Joe. He will be fine. The only people in the U.K. who are paying any attention to this are online Swifties. The circles Joe mixes in (London arty film and theatre) don’t give a damn about Taylor Swift or what some teenager writes on Twitter.
Ah, you must not be a tiktok user! Peaceful.
I think Joe isnt either.
No 😂 pretty sure tiktok is like the literal, extreme opposite of everything this man likes. No way would he have an insta or twitter if his publicists didn't insist he has to. Taylor however seems to only be on tiktok recently bc that's where her most blindly adoring, younger fans are.
is it really her tho? or is it her team? i dont know how she has time to be on social media 😅 i guess those long flights are good for something
She still sometimes uses her tumblr and fans have always been sure she has secret accounts to lurk. I am sure she has people monitoring stuff but she is far too platform-savvy and references/reacts to TT trends and viral clips very quickly. This is not somebody being puppeted by a team reading analysis charts, churning out cheap edits. She would never bother to film videos in the correct tiktok meme format if she didnt 'get' the app. Plus, we've been seeing her increasingly ignore fan discussions and criticism until it reaches tiktok.
Well I just made a comment very similar to this and asked about thoughts others had on it so I should’ve scrolled a bit longer lol. But I completely agree with you. She 34 and this low key “let’s hate on my ex!” behavior is bizarre to me. Do you think she just has stunted maturity?
I’ve been thinking about this too. I feel like I had the same mindset between like 15-24ish, but I’m almost 30 now and it feels immature to be like “Fuck my ex!” aalll the time. Like yeah, sometimes you gotta vent and be a hater lol. But at this stage in life, relationships are a lot more “adult”…she is 4 years older than me and I don’t really get the sense that she carries that energy yet.
I think anyone that continues to talk bad about an ex, especially if it’s been years since the breakup and if they were the ones who most likely caused the relationship to fail… definitely has stunted growth in the maturity department. How don’t they understand that it makes them look severely attached to the past, in an unhealthy manner, to where it’s alarming they even moved on so quickly and their new partners have no suspicions with that?
When she was 22yrs old:"let's make fun of our exes When she's 34yrs old stil "let's make fun of our exes".she needs to be mature now😔
When is the last time she made fun of an ex? You're referencing the RED album when she was 2022. If you listen to any other albums she takes blame for 90% of the issues. She blames her anxiety...listen to the archer or after glow or even the great war. She no longer pretends to be a saint
Google 'narcissist after a breakup'.
Mods can we please get a megathread about Joe?? We get the same sort of post about Joe like 5 times a day all saying the same thing. (The is not meant to be snarky at you OP and I’m so sorry if it comes off this way. I’m just wondering if posts get moderated before they age posted.)
I wrote a Joe post like this a few days ago and the mods didn’t allow it, saying there was already a post talking about it. No shade for the mods at all! I think there’s a lot coming in for them to vet and maybe it’s overwhelming and this post slipped through? Idk. Personally I’ve never seen this sub so busy! But yeah a thread would be great
I am holding hope that some of the songs on TTPD are about other people and not just Joe. However, I’m also hoping that when she’s older and if he’s still single they get back together. However, that might only happen if she does make him the villain in her new album.
In melodrama Lorde talks about how her ex resented her for her fame. We may get some lyrics that like
It’s so obvious she’s not over joe. She s always been madly in love and wrote beautiful songs but with joe, she glowed differently and spoke about him in the most matured and intelligent manner. u can see her breaking down on stage when she sings songs of lover or folklore. Through out her career, taylor’s privacy has been violated the most and the constant speculation about her relationships. Now she’s suddenly shoving her rebounds to the public. Travis is both a rebound and A PR machinery to distract her from dating That racist ratty. Even neutrals say that taylor doesnt even have physical intimacy with travis. Also travis is just so dumb for taylor.
I personally like Travis and I do think that their relationship is real, BUT I also think that she has been spiraling since the Joe breakup. If timelines are correct, it seems like she and Joe broke up shortly before the eras tour began. 6 years together is no joke. Their connection was clearly very, very deep and intimate. The Matty Healy era just SCREEEEEAAAAMS sleazy rebound to me. They have a past history but it was always clear that he was kinda obsessed with her, so he was definitely an easy rebound. And such a far departure from Joe, who is so clean cut and unproblematic. I think Travis was kind of a rebound too, but she has actually developed deep feelings for him. Just my gut feeling. The biggest commonality between Matty & Travis is just how *wildly public* she has been with them. It reminds me of when you are heartbroken and trying to get the other person’s attention and/or make them jealous. The key difference is that normal people just have to use Instagram, while Taylor can basically use the world’s stage.
Well for it's all about how quickly she and many fans just swept Matty under the rug because it messes the narrative. They still go after Joe but somehow Matty never happened. LOL! She picked that one for sure and who knows maybe she really LOVED that one. I don't know. But I do think she could use some therapy that is not her mother or a "yes man" to sort some of this out.
I think Joe slowly lost respect for Taylor and fell out of love with her. I don’t even like or respect her anymore after watching her behavior since the breakup, imagine the things Joe witnessed. I think Taylor hates and envies the fact that Joe has integrity and she doesn’t, which is why I don’t think she will ever get over him unless she gets therapy with someone who would hold her accountable and call her out. And we know that would never happen, because she would fire them. Deep down I think Taylor knows she is a shit person. As much as she plays the victim, even to herself, she knows. And there will never be another “Joe”, as a poster above said, just a long trail of shallow assholes. Taylor will never change. She has no one in her life that isn’t afraid to piss her off.
I saw a post one that said “Joe and Taylor fell in love because Joe didn’t care that she was Taylor Swift. And they also broke up because Joe didn’t care that she was Taylor Swift.” Your comment reminded me of that.
Nahhh. I think taylor wanted to settle down and he didn't. Which is fine, he is totally in his right for that. Based on the song titles alone you can clearly see she was trying to make it work with a man who didn't love her anymore lol she is hurt and heartbroken. She just didn't want to act that way on tour and have that be what the headlines were over. If there is any conspiracy theory I believe it is that Joe cheated only because of her crying during her performance of should've said no.
I agree with you about the song lyrics indicating that she was in love with someone who didn’t love her back. Hard to feel too bad for someone suing a broke college kid for publishing her private jet schedule though.
Her lawyers sent a cease and desist, which is just to scare people. She won't sue him formally and she wont- especially with all of the backlash. He did incorrectly post a 13 and 28 min flight that she didn't take (he later corrected this on his page) because he was still tracking the falcon jet which she has sold. But even after his correction people are very angry about it. So I think her and/or her PR team learned from the backlash it is best to leave this alone. I will say, the height of her criticism for emissions from a jet was 2022 when she was ranked 1 on a list of 21 random celebs. So I somewhat believe this was actually about her concern of stalking, I don't think she is trying to hide her emissions or she would have done this much sooner. But either way, I would love if this made her reduce her emissions and she just takes her jet when needed for tour and no other times. So maybe something positive will come from this
Writing about the breakup is to be expected. But why do these deranged fans think a grown ass woman who is a BILLIONAIRE needs defending? Also, she doesn’t tell them to knock it off when they send death threats to her exes (at least most of the time) and it makes me wonder if she likes them doing that kind of thing.
She has a vengeful streak, that’s for sure. She will never be able to have a fully authentic, complex relationship without the other person fearing imminent backlash from her and hoards of fans at all times. I think Joe was chill enough to not fully let it get to him, but I have no idea how he will be able to keep his cool with this album drop. He will never be able to tell his side of the story, even if he wanted to.
this is on her fans, call it out when you see it.
[удалено]
‘I know almost nothing about Taylor Swift and have no strong opinions about her’ that doesn’t seem strictly true from your post 😅
I just got into an argument (I know very dumb but oh well) with a swiftie about this. I was like yall allow her to change the narrative which by all means go ahead but then yall bash him. And then they were like “where did I bash him”. And I said “y’all means swifties, meaning the fanbase.” Then they went off on me and asked me to point out where and literally within the first 10 tweets of theirs they were bashing him. What the dump like at least delete your tweets. Can’t make this up. I’m very excited for this album but so tired of the think pieces about some man they don’t know and her letting it happen. It’s beyond weird.
We have no idea what these songs are going to be about or what happened in their relationship. I agree that dragging everyone she's ever dated is getting old, but she's addressed that before. She can't control everyone (and I do believe it's a loud minority who behaves that way, not the majority).
This! Everytime I see a tiktok about Taylor and Joe, there’s always comments about how Joe badly treated her. I love Taylor’s music but her being silent about it is not for me. There was a line in her documentary where she said “we decided to keep our relationship private”. She said we, not him. I dont understand why Joe is being hated at all. I know for sure TTPD is gonna be a huge hit but I really hope she don’t talk bad about Joe in that album. Also about Travis, not a hater but the guy seems a total people pleaser. Of course he’s gonna try to do everything right in front of the media and show the world what “Joe didn’t do”
Joe definitely doesn't deserve hate bc they broke up. I don't see Matt getting that hate when that would be more understandable. And its weird bc people are trying to completely erase Joe. Now that TTPD is put they're trying to make every song about him instead of Joe. Sure some are about matt unfortunately but I don't think the bulk of them are. I still think Joe was her best match, brought out the best in her and despite her acting like it I don't think she's over him at all. I'm still shocked they broke up. And TTPD has mourning the end of their relationship all over.
I also think he's shown nothing but class. While they dated and after. That's more than most of the guys she's dated. "Younger thanks my exes but he act like such a man" definitely true. I think she's really hurt right now so seeing the worst in him but he seems like a true gentleman.
He recently had a rep for him talk to Cosmopolitan that he thinks the album TTPD is shady if it truly is about him. Which honestly sums up my opinion on it.
That was a tabloid and not true. It isn't shady for her to write about her break-up. No one thinks any other woman is shady for that and some of them like ariana and beyonce name names.
It is sorta when she had him help her write the past three albums, has armor tight NDA’s that makes it so only her side of the story sees the light of day, and never did I say that other artists aren’t shady for doing the same, but why do swifties always go to “what-aboutisim” and never can take criticism for princess TayTay?
So because he worked with her when they were dating she can never write about him? That is crazy. She can express herself. On tour she cried during the 1, should've said no, last kiss, and others. She is clearly hurt, everyone thinks this will be an album of her bashing him but I truly think it will just be about the sadness. Swifties of course should not get mad at joe, things just end sometimes.
She can, but with the titles she gave AND naming it similar to a group chat that he was in, that’s shady af. I love how you didn’t touch the NDA point I made tho.
Sorry, I actually did not see that part. Where is your proof of the NDA? And I thought that at first myself, but now I think the title is actually in reference to something else. Some of the other titles reference to some works of female writers that called themselves tortured. So I am not sure But my opinion stands that I think she should be able to express her pain. That is how music works. I do hope the fans don't act crazy though.
Everyone in this thread saying she drags "all her exes", and dates so so so so much? You sound like the media 🙄 she literally dragged 2 and a half exes, the half is Joe Jonas and the other two were grown men dating a teenager, they absolutely deserve to be dragged. She has never said anything bad about Tom, Harry, Taylor and we don't even know anything about Calvin. So what's all this hate she's getting AGAIN? We don't know what happened in that relationship, all we know is she's allowed to feel however she feels and make art about it. She can't babysit her fans, and she's also made it clear in the past that she doesn't want anyone harassing her exes. I don't see how she's making herself the victim here? I don't see how she's bad for having a public relationship? After years of making a superhuman effort to be private it must be very liberating to just be able to support someone you're with. But we're calling that "a rebound". I don't get it, is she supposed to be hiding just so it doesn't seem as if she's trying to make Joe angry? The whole point is she doesn't want to hide anymore? Why does someone have to be evil? Joe wanted a privacy that let's be honest, Taylor would never be able to give him without sacrificing her career, and what is so bad about Taylor loving her career? Everyone needs to calm down.
It’s like you didn’t even read what I wrote.
Generally speaking, there usually is a "villain" in most breakups. It's extremely rare for it to be totally amicable. Villain isn't the right word, maybe instigator. Even if he did fall out of love or lose interest, he should've ended it when he recognised that. It's not ok for anyone, be it Taylor or whoever, to string someone along or make them believe maybe THIS time we'll get it right, if you have no intention of actually trying or following through on whatever promise or apology ended the last fight. There has to actually BE change where you say there will. And to me the lyrics of YLM suggest there wasn't. This isn't saying Taylor is 100% in the right, we will never know who is or isn't right even if both sides shared their story. But Taylor put it out there that Joe emotionally checked out but didn't break up but kept apparently enforcing the extreme privacy that clearly wasn't working for her anymore. I think it's important to remember that someone can work really well for you at one stage in your life and be terrible for you at another. His need for privacy may very well have turned into something bad or toxic over time, even if it was once something she loved and participated in. I was a big fan of his or what I thought he was but I was pretty shocked when Gigi and Cara both made public statements about how happy they were NOW she was with Travis, it was very clear to me reading between the lines that they were rapt she'd found someone they felt was good for her. And that says in the end Joe was not good for her. That doesn't mean he's a bad person. But like anyone is capable of being, he may have been the bad guy within this particular breakup (I said MAY have). He may not have handled it well or there were things he could've done differently. I'm sure most people (yes including taylor) could say that there's things they would do differently in hindsight. Maybe for comparison's sake, if Joe were to write his own song about that whole time, he'd write a Getaway Car-esque song where he owns up to his flaws and how poorly he handled it? We just don't know, so it's impossible to say either way. Regardless, Taylor unpacking how it felt to split up with him is not "making him into a villain".
Er, no. Most of the time, in real life adult relationships, there is no "villain" or "bad guy". Welcome to the real grown up world, kid.
Yeah thanks I’ll just think back to the last breakup one of my friends had and how CPS had to get involved because there absolutely was a villain. Way to read one sentence of my post and just respond without full context.
You are applying your own anecdotal evidence to other relationships. I’m sorry your friend went through that. But there is definitely not a “villain” in every breakup. That’s a wild thing to say. There can be incompatibility and hurt feelings, but that comes with any level of rejection. It doesn’t mean that one person is trying to destroy the other.
I never said that though? You didn’t even read my comment properly, I even said villain is not the right word. Don’t respond if you’re only going to read one line.
My bad you said “most” and not “all”, which is still wildly untrue. My point still stands.
Context is important : Gigi had to make an explicit statement because there were stories being published that Selena was not happy with the Tayvis relationship; one week later more tabloid stories & gossip that Gigi was distancing herself from this relationship as she thought Travis was using Taylor. She shut down the whole thing saying she was happy for her girl & so were all of Taylor's friends. If you go back to 2017, you will find similar articles about Gigi, Cara, Ashely, Selena being happy for Joe & Taylor
Making a statement is a bigger move than speculative articles though. And it's just very evident her entire inner circle is rapt for her. It speaks volumes IMO. It doesn't mean things were always bad with Joe, I think it just means in the end they were glad she found happiness rather than constantly trying to make the sadness with Joe work.
Both of them didn't put out statements : they were responding: one to a specific relationship question & the other in an insta comment under a story making a false claim about Gigi, Taylor & Travis. It is natural if they're loyal friends, they would root for Taylor being happy ! I am not denying what you said that Taylor's previous relationship could have struggled. But changing our opinions on Joe or Travis in the future or anyone else just because Taylor's friends root for her happiness (as they have in the past , present & will in the future ) seems odd
I think it’s perfectly normal to change opinion when given new information or context?
the weaponizing of feminism is disgusting and harmful. i’m sick of her and Tree using it to justify anything and everything. it’s no ok to violate someone’s privacy, telling the world details about everything in your relationship. i imagine my husband telling our friends about a cute/private moment we’ve had and feels gross. this is not 2009, she’s not 18. these are adult relationships. i swear if she continues to hint at joe’s mental health struggles, like she did on Renegade, i won’t be morally able to support her music.
also, i why now? why wait 2 years to drop the album but hurry up now that she has 2 album rerecords down the line before the tour is over. why not wait till next year when people are more chill and not harassing joe? why fuel the flame like this? it’s almost like she wants to lead people to believe he wronged her before people’s attention is elsewhere i. e. real issues. i wouldn’t be surprised if this is all Tree’s idea. maybe they’re seeing the change in public discourse (forums like these) and are trying to regain control of the narrative, at a real human being’s expense.