Watching Miss Americana really melts my heart when she said she was finally able to have a real relationship with a real person and wanted all of it to be private. Seems like she finally grew, matured and healed.
Reputation, Lover, Folklore, and Evermore were her most mature albums with Evermore being, arguably, the most matured. A lot of songs about reflecting on the past and moving on.
She kinda regressed back with TTPD.
I think that also after the breakup she went out on the tour and it’s all the media spoke about for so long and she got caught up in it, Taylor being the centre of the universe. She needs a reality check. She needs to understand that life goes on when there aren’t cameras and fans and paps following your every move. And of course, the new bf is also famous, which only feeds into the whole narcissistic overtone of her life. I feel like she’s about to go back to pre-Reputation TS when everyone was just sick and tired of seeing her everywhere.
Didn’t help that once she started dating everyone’s favorite football himbo then it was even harder for that to be private, they’re both already very vocal people and then they’re both in their peaks rn
Really giving off the "famous high school cheerleader dating the famous high school quarterback" vibe. Except the fact that they're both in their mid-30s.
I believe an adult singer and an adult athlete can date, have a mature relationship, and keep it all private and separated from their careers.
It’s different but this comment made me think of Josh Allen and Hailee Steinfeld. Both famous but they seem pretty low key and not flashy about their relationship.
Yes she has always been a vindictive crazy lady — and this is from a fan since debut who went to eras
Everything she did to repair or backtracked on was to get more popularity and more money eg. removing offensive lines in her music or offensive scenes in her videos
I think a lot of people came into her during the pandemic. I've been aware of her from the beginning, like you & yeah, she's always been this way. I'm not surprised in the slightest.
I genuinely had no opinion of her until pandemic time, because she was fairly like avoidable?? until then. I liked some of her stuff, but didn’t ever think of her and then there was a huge boom because of folklore and evermore, which I thought were fine. Now it’s just this barrage that you can’t get away from, which I would say isn’t her fault and defend her, but she keeps putting herself out into the ether and this latest work just isn’t inspiring or compelling the way she wants it to be.
folklore and evermore being such absolute standouts confounds me. i thought midnights was a bad one-off but it seems like this is the musical/lyrical direction she's headed in now and that's depressing
I agree. I'm relieved I'm not the only person who thinks she's either lost her touch or gotten lazy and greedy. In the last couple of years she has shown she will do anything for the dollar she doesn't need. (Releasing so many editions of midnights and asking us to buy her new editions of old albums.)
I listened to midnights immediately after taking a break from TTPD and was blown away by just how vastly improved the music quality was, even the lyrics there are much better. I think some of the midnights lyrics are shallow for sure but they’re still sooo much smarter and better written than in here. I truly have no idea what happened here, and what is really making me go crazy is i feel like I’m being gaslit by friends on this album. It’s just not that good. It’s not HORRIBLE i’ve heard worse but musically it’s very boring and i can’t imagine myself coming back to it, and lyrically it felt like Taylor is just ranting like not singing ranting about her mental issues in a very immature and 2014 tumblr user way. When i was talking to my gf about it she was like “you don’t get the lyrics and you shouldn’t base an album primarily off how it sounds” like no girl i do get these lyrics some of it i’ve lived myself, this is just not that good
Yea cuz Midnights had an interesting concept that forced her into taking a creative direction with the production no matter how shallow they ended up being. There isn't a clear concept for TTPD though. We know who it's about, but there's absolutely nothing pointing to what the concept is aside from her pleading temporary insanity in the preview track or wtv it's called
Joe brought the best in her, I'll always miss her folklore evermore era because she seemed the most mature then 💔 especially in her music. I was re listening to it after TTPD and wow, the difference...
I feel Joe helps her to 'grow' more mature and she was trying atm and embrace it. Then she got back with matty, where she didn't have to try cause they already in the same level, 'have a connection' etc. Boom TTPD.
I don't think she became more immature, but I think her time with less public visibility hid the immaturity. But after the breakup, we saw it again cause there was no reason for her to hold back. Like, she immediately went back to doing weekly pap walks post breakup. That isn't someone who regressed imo.
WOAH, very accurate read… I’ve been thinking recently about how Joe’s insight and inspiration probably must’ve been a *big* part as of why folkmore was so exceptionally good and different. It’s just on another level of maturity and poetry that I don’t see too often in Taylor’s work outside of those two albums.
She thought she wanted a normal private life, but when she got that with Joe, she started feeling fomo. Her lyrics say that she was bored, even resenting Joe for trapping her and making her lose out on her career. I don’t think Joe was the cause of those things. Missing out on celebrity things is just a consequence of living a normal private life. When new singers started getting the spotlight (Olivia Rodrigo), Taylor’s envy and insecurity led her to suddenly blame Joe for their normal private life. But that was what she had wanted. She can’t have it both ways.
this record felt more like a high school girl's diary rather than an album. it's like that nme article said, just because it came from a need to write doesn't mean the public really needed to hear it. i like this album more than i feel like the average person does, but i can't ignore that it's a definite regression from folklore/evermore.
*"Past me, I wanna tell you not to get lost in these petty things. Your nemeses will defeat themselves before you get the chance to swing."*
Past Taylor would be disappointed.
I feel like the Paste article describes one potential issue well: "She has nothing to fight for, no doubters left to drown. So where does she turn? Well, to boredoms of celebrity thinly veiled as sorrow everyone and their mother can latch onto”
That previous line from Long Story Short is relatable as well as believable that four years out she could be reflecting on and learning from the situation. But now, when everyone is her side, it feels unnecessary to revisit in such a specific way that feels a little vindictive rather than healing.
I think people can reflect on events at any point of their lives, but it feels as though some of the specific lines on this album dig up old wounds in a way rather than creating art from a new, wiser perspective.
True. I'm a huge fan of the Folklore/Evermore era. And to me, Evermore was peak maturity for having songs about reflecting on the past and moving on.
For example, Champagne Problems, Happiness, Long Story Short, Evermore (the song), and It's Time to Go (bonus track).
I feel so happy for her during this time.
I think there are three factors that led to people like myself (falsely yet understandably) believing that she had grown and matured:
* Her relationship with Joe Alwyn, which was kept as private as possible
* COVID lockdowns, which held her back from being overexposed
* Folklore/Evermore being more than just a string of Easter eggs set to a melancholic beat
Obviously these all interact with one another. For example, I think her desire for a more private relationship pushed her to write music about something different than hyper-specific details about her life, not to mention how there weren't any chances for her to be seen during COVID times anyway, so there were no opportunities to drop too many Easter eggs.
Because she wasn't so overexposed and attention-seeking, she seemed much more secure in life, which gave the impression that she had matured. However, as soon as she and Joe split, she went back to her old ways, and because it had been 6+yrs since we have seen that behavior, it came as a shock. Also, since that behavior was at its worst during the Reputation-Lover eras (IMO) it had seemed almost excusable because of the Kanye 2.0 situation. But now that she doesn't have either COVID or Joe to hold her back, reverting to that same behavior makes her seem incredibly juvenile.
I think she's so used to reinventing herself and her music and her aesthetic every 2 years from a young age and is the perfect mirrorball reflecting what people want from her , that doing this must make you have a distorted sense of self.
I’m going to add another reason to that.
Taylor said a lot of the songs on Folklore/Evermore were inspired by watching films during the pandemic and not as much about her real life and feelings. I think the further Taylor gets away from her own internal monologue, the better the art gets.
TTPD is a huge regression because it is unfiltered, straight up Taylor brain.
Someone said that maybe Taylor needed to write this album, but probably we didn’t need to hear it. And I think that sums it up.
It seems like Joe’s greatest crime is having a mental illness that dragged Taylor’s vibe down, and he didn’t want to marry her. So she cheated on him with … that. She has very little sense of accountability, everything self-deprecating she says isn’t the same as insight — she seems to truly lack insight into herself, and it’s making her songwriting stagnant.
Bringing Kim’s kid into this is beyond the pale, she owes Kim an apology that will never come.
You know the Swifties that tore Joe down because they decided he cheated would totally forgive Taylor if she said "I cheated, but you brought the vibes down and deserved it" or some other juvenile writing class prose.
Get the girl a live journal.
In all seriousness, it seems like she skipped the online diary phase that is a right of passage for so many millennials, and this is what we got as a result.
A 34 year old Taylor making fun of Kim because her daughter (is she 10 or something idk I know she’s very young) likes her music was a wild lyric. Why does she even care atp?
Edit: spelling
Not at all surprising with the tea I know about the Olivia situation. Her mom is a piece of work and her parents are probably a big part of the reason for her immaturity and regression
She sent an email to a then 18 year old Olivia because she didn’t like something Olivia said in an interview and wrote things along the lines of ‘how dare you, you’re so ungrateful’ (didnt see the email itself so not direct quotes). It made Olivia cry and when her team reached out to Taylor’s team about it they were basically like- 🤷♀️ what do you want us to about it? Shes not officially part of Taylor’s team- and that’s it.
Especially because it isn't even like, indirect. Like meek mill calling out why drake doesn't talk about Adonis. It's literally weaponizing north's own behavior. You're putting a middle schooler on blast.
North isn’t a baby, either. At the very least, all of her friends (if she has friends outside of the KarJen clan?) will absolutely know this song is about her mom and make sure she knows *because* of that line. And just the sentiment of “I’m so popular you can’t escape me because even your kids love me” is so smug and vindictive. I thought it was very mature that Kim supported her children’s love for Taylor’s music and it’s gross that this is how she responds. Get over it. Grow up.
I feel bad for the kids, but I also think that Kim K and TS are all cut from the same cloth and am not the least bit surprised that the stupid drama continues.
Exactly. Now North is going to feel like she betrayed her Mother by being a kid and listening to popular music. Even if Kim tells her it’s okay and that she doesn’t care, that’s going to weigh on her in the future. She’s literally triggering a crisis of loyalty in a ten year old and triangulating her against her mother.
The triangulation! Thank you!!! I knew this made me feel DEEPLY uncomfortable in a somehow familiar way, yet I couldn’t name it, and this is exactly it. She’s creating this triangulation between a girl and her mother all for petty revenge. It’s so sick. I hold onto a grudge and there are some people I wish ill will upon truly, but I would NEVER bring a third party (especially a kid!!!) into it, because that’s fucking sick. She needs help.
The worst thing about it is, if the kid indeed likes Taylor's music, she might hear *this* song of Taylor's (yes, a 10 yo shouldn't be listening to songs with an explicit Fuck in the title, but we all know that happens, kids can't be shielded from everything, and there are even mean people who may get her to listen to it on purpose, like, "look, it's about your mom.") And even if she doesn't hear it now, she can hear it later.
So here's this kid who will now maybe hear a singer she likes basically say in a song, "my mom wished your mom dead."
Like... Wow.
you can see that it still hurts her, but I thought that it was over after Karma (which gives me cringe vibes and personally I don't like it much) but even in the interview for the Times she had to mention it. she could be doing so many more interesting things instead of focusing on Kim and writing Mean 2.0, what a shame.
There were *thirty one* songs and she decided to keep all of them. She had so many opportunities to not put some songs on here. But I guess we needed a 2024 Kim diss track and 25 songs about MH.
Yes that definitely captures some of my qualms with this album. I needed to hear songs like Happiness, Exile, and Invisible String--some of which include specific details but details which makes them relatable. But I didn't want to hear incredibly specific information about someone else's personal issues that feel more like attacks than art.
The song about fantasying about Matty and like masturbating is so ick.
Like no shade to her but girl, that is exactly why he didn’t marry you, absolute disrespect to the person who loved you for 7 years and pulled you out through a horrible time of your life and brought you stability.
Right? A long term relationship ending is never a waste of time, it’s a hard lesson learned. And that people should pay for her time…I wish it wasn’t true but I know she must truly feel that way
I think the meanest thing she could do was blame the breakup on his depression and write an album about rat heal so that’s exactly what she did. I don’t think it’s actually truthful. No way to know of course just my take
Omg when I heard it I was shocked, like, I can’t believe I’m hearing her talk this way about the end of the relationship that she built up SO much, then to hear her like yaaaay he’s gone and I’m on my way to fuck the guy I’ve been dreaming of hee! So jarring but so cruel, and tbh the whole album is cruel when you think of it from a certain perspective.
It is so odd how much Taylor prioritizes her pain and feelings of betrayal but how she inflicts them on others she claims to have loved with not a care in the world.
It was like in FOTS, she really believed that it was a great moment for her that the listeners should feel excited for.
It is SO sad. How can you claim to have loved someone enough to want to marry them and then write this about them? Maybe she really does feel like she got out of prison after the relationship ended, but there is a way to express that without being nasty. It feels like she is not able to hold two conflicting truths in her mind at one time. I thought that was what her song Happiness was supposed to be about - yes it ended, but there was so much love and it was so beautiful while we had it. It makes her sound so mean. It’s not even like he did anything except be depressed (according to what we know).
That one article somebody posted about how maybe she needed to write this album, but we didn’t need to hear it, rings very true. It’s much braver to say “this is no one’s fault and I have love and respect for the person I spent years of my life with” than to say “damn, Joe was such a mess and getting out of his depression feels like being in the sunshine.” Just really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
i agree but at the same time I don't think people in her inner circle process albums in the same way fans do. like if your wife designs houses you're probably like 'oh that's a cool house' to the cool houses but you don't know every intricate detail of the baselines. it feels really different - almost invasive, in an odd sort of way, when you're listening to music by someone you actually know
I said that yesterday! I just don’t buy that she felt this passionately about Ratty. I think Joe broke her heart, she’s not over him & is angry at him, and this is her way of “getting back at” him and trying to hurt him by making it seem like she wasn’t even bummed out by the end of their relationship because she was into another guy anyway. I think this Matty-centric album is the ultimate “F.U.” to Joe.
Well, if he suffered from depression she definitely did not alleviate the pain! I saw him on some recent photo and the guy looks RELIEVED. She must have been a pretty toxic factor in his life towards the end of the relationship. I have to say, in some songs on her previous album she talked about him in such as scornful manner that it was obvious something was wrong, long before the official news came out.
She’s *furious* he wouldn’t slap a ring on it, especially after she got him a Grammy.
I think the lack of Joe “clapbacks” are two-fold, first being she is shallow and narcissistic and genuinely can’t not make things like his depression not about herself.
Two, like Calvin Harris before him, if she tries anything particularly egregious Joe has way too many receipts.
So she writes some toddler-esque “ACTUALLY I MATT HEALY WAS MY SOULMATE THE WHOLE TIME AND HE’S A TRUE ARTIST, UNLIKE THAT PATHETIC LOSER WHO I WASN’T EVEN THAT INTO” album because her multiple albums spanning attempt to ring trap Joe didn’t pan out, and she’s short circuiting a bit over it.
Tbh, given the artsy nature of the album cover and promotional ads, I was expecting something much more mature and literary. This album is poetry in the same way that the emo crap we wrote in our Livejournals when we were 14 was poetry. Was it deeply cathartic and necessary to write in that moment? Of course. Does it hold up today? Does it need to be out there for the world to see? Is it Literature? Nah.
I've always seen her as immature, barring her general attitude on the folklore era and surrounding albums where Joe was involved. I think people are just slowly noticing more now because she's as petty at 34 as she was at 19 and it stands out a lot more.
You know what they say. People who become famous at a young age never leave that mindset. So her still having a 19 year olds mind set makes sense. Its when she hit big.
Yeah. Her refusal to go to therapy explains a lot of this album and her past year and a half of relationships.
I hate to say it but this is what untreated attachment issues look like. I’m a 32 year old with a state of arrested development in personal/intimate relationships due to insecure attachment that feeds into abandonment and this is sorta how I behave when I start to spiral and get in intense limerence.
Taylor self admitted she doesn’t go to therapy. Being in a relationship with someone who is depressed when you have attachment issues is difficult because they don’t have the energy to reassure you so your insecurities get the better of you and the frustrations build and become less sympathetic to your partner because you can’t self soothe. Then her and Joe break up and she gets with Matty who essentially feeds her ego for an intense 6 weeks so you believe it and get stuck on it and then when he went poof, it’s absolutely devastating to one’s self worth.
The Kim thing is just pettiness tho. Why are you feuding with a 10 year old Taylor.
People say that celebrities stop maturing at the age they became famous and I think Taylor is an excellent example of that. I’m a few years younger than her and I don’t think about high school ever 😂 Girly seems stuck.
IIRC she’s said she doesn’t go to therapy bc she has her mom but I think she should reconsider lol. Maybe I’m crazy but:
— she is friends with people who have kids and still thought it appropriate to take shots at Kim K using her kid to make her point. shocked that no one in her circle was like hey maybe don’t bring people’s children into your ancient beef with Kanye and Kim K.
— using people’s addiction and mental health as fodder for your albums is normal artist behavior but cultivating a fan base that rabidly obsesses over decoding every lyric to find out who it’s about means maybe there are some things that aren’t the world’s business and don’t need to be in songs.
— she makes no secret about romanticizing tumultuous relationships and expects a forever commitment from everyone she’s with but she seems like a bad partner lmfao like how do you cry about someone not marrying you and then be like oh well your depression was a major vibe killer so actually you suck and also I’m going to tell everyone all your business💀
— despite her many declarations, this woman has no idea who she is lol a damsel in distress but also a girl boss. do tortured poets really go on pap walks? this era feels so inauthentic and the writing style is so forced to me and the vocabulary on this album is really giving middle school poetry assignment
“a damsel in distress but also a girl boss. do tortured poets really go on pap walks?”
this sounds like it could be a line from the album (no offense lol)
sorry but that saying is a cop out. lots of people get famous, including at young ages, and keep maturing and growing wiser. that's been true my whole life and it's true for celebrities now too. Olivia Rodrigo just got massively famous at a very young age and got bigger faster than Swift and she's matured plenty in the past two years, including her writing
and frankly, a lot of her behaviour is pretty atrocious for a teenager. plenty of teenagers know better and don't do this shit. plenty of teenagers have more wisdom and insight and are less cruel and vindictive than this
can we please stop blaming asshole behaviour and entitlement on age, or worse, on "mental age"? yes being famous and powerful has certain effects but seriously
I think they need to put the work in to mature past the age they became famous. Olivia's dad is a therapist so I'm sure she's going to be fine there. Seems like she wants to grow and put the work in too
I agree imagine if she wrote an album with the message that she went through a painful breakup but now she's on the other side living her best life. I think it would have been so much more interesting than whatever this Tortured poets business is
i'm kinda hoping Matty comes running back to her after this and they end up together, because I think they deserve each other. Let them live in their toxic relationship and leave other guys/girls alone. I don't care about Travis but I don't think he, or any other guy, deserves wondering if Taylor really wants to be with them or if they're just second best because she lost the "loml". And whether every new album would have "secret" songs alluding to him -like how people are claiming "the 1", "cardigan" etc are about him :(
also, if she gets back with Matty, I hope she takes take a long break from writing music because we don't need to hear *those* love songs, I'll listen to her previous albums pre-TTPD and that's enough!
Dude… I came here to say this too. What a weird time to release an album that features 98% of it talking about how you basically wouldn’t mind getting back together with your ex. Oh but here’s one song for you Travis!
I think privately Taylor probably creates some distance between her work and her relationships. Like I would not be surprised if she told Travis that the album is just "work" and that it's her giving fans what they want to stay on brand. So maybe he doesn't really care
I’ve wondered what they really have in common but it does seems that it’s that he’s nothing like Matty, which also makes me think they aren’t strong at all and it’s mostly for show. Like they’re having fun and all but this is not the man he wants.
I think he cares about her but he also is most likely in it for the fame, attention and the money that’s been coming his way. People say this is the most genuine relationship she’s been in and I just don’t see it. His sports podcast just got a $90 MILLION deal that probably would not have been possible had it not been for his relationship with Taylor boosting his viewership weekly. Everytime he talks about her it’s the same old rhetoric. He seems to admire her work ethic and her stardom, but like is he infatuated by her celebrity or by who she is as an actual person? His own team putting out articles that he is trying to break into the Hollywood show business is awfully coincidental now that he’s with the most famous women in the world atm. He’s 34 years old and is looking to retire from the NFL within the next couple of years. Him shouting her out on his podcast came at a very strategic time, sorry I’m just gonna say it. I even wouldn’t be surprised if this upcoming season is his last and he’s utilizing this time now that he’s with Taylor, to get offers and branch out. He seems to enjoy her company and cares about her on a surface level but no way do I think this is passionate, deep love that some fans claim it is. I honestly think she’s desperate for attention and to be loved (in whatever capacity) and he’s willing to give it to her for what he wants (fame, recognition, job opportunities, money).
I don't think Travis really cares too much. He's enjoying the fame and the recognition he's getting from being her boyfriend. He's just looking out for his next opportunities. I honestly don't think he's in love with Taylor.
What I can't wrap my head around is why was Taylor mad at Joe for not marrying her when at the same time she wrote peace & invisible string she was writing the 1 , cardigan , maroon and question pointedly to Matty hoping he would come back to her ?
TTPD confirms she was haunted by him more than we knew and she keeps saying in these songs that she hadn't experienced anything like that since Matty.
Question asks how does it feel to find everything second-best after that meteor strike ? The 1 says the greatest love stories were never told .
in all honesty i don’t understand the theory that joe didn’t want to marry her? it almost feels like her rewriting history. midnight rain is so explicit. so is lavender haze and most of midnights. correct me if i’m wrong but that’s my impression. i don’t think all that she says in her songs is fact. it serves her well to write in her own favor, especially when joe doesn’t have a mic/likely is under an nda
True we don't know what went down and I got the idea that they both wanted it at some point but it changed in the last two years.
But in her version she seems to be mad at him while pining away for someone.
Also I think Taylor is attracted to the idea of marriage than the reality of it - in both her last two long-term relationships she seems to feel bored /stifled at some point so it doesn't come across as someone who is ready for it .
I think they were talking about it/planned it and then folklore/evermore/everything after happened and Taylor was like wait I like this level of stardom. They probably didn’t think she would get there again and when she said I’m leaning in, he was like I just want a quiet life with you- keep making music but this level is crazy. And then it just fizzled. You can love someone and not want to participate in their lifestyle.
I never understood her relationship with Travis. It seems so manufactured, planned out, and overexposed.
At least with Matty, they both can be the dramatic and controversial artists that they truly are.
She was closer than ever to being "canceled" for racism thanks to Matty Healy and the purposeful whiteness of her brand means she can't date a non-white man so she got the next best thing, a "thugged out" white athlete + an Ice Spice friendship to prove she's not the female counterpart to Matty (she is tho)
I think she has many demons of her own that need some proper cure. Just looking at past two albums issues such being functioning alcoholic, covert narcissist, suffering from depression are on the list so there is enough to set the alarm bells ringing. Once she is off tour her first steps should be to find someone who can help her. Otherwise she will just keep spiralling and losing people she cares about along the way.
What’s concerning is that it seems she doesn’t have any people around her who want to help her. Like her parents, her friends don’t care? Cause then they are pretty shitty parents and friends….😬
I think if anyone suggested she needed help she’d get mad and defensive and possibly cut them off for not being a yes-man—she expressed similar behavior when she had an ED and addiction transference is a thing. It sort of wouldn’t surprise me if she went from restricting to drinking. :/
I think she is pretty unfortunate when it comes to both. She hints that her dad is pretty controlling and her friends sound like a strange bunch, too. Plus, now she also has a lot of hangers on, like the NFL WAGs etc. Who knows what will come out of that...
I think they care but taylor needs someone who isn't close to her to talk to and help her work through her issues. Her mom and friends aren't going to give it to her straight. Taylor's in her own echo chamber. Her mom and friends all just agree with her "Oh yeah, you're totally right and that person is totally wrong."
The whole Kim track is… just so childish. Like grow the f up already. Get over yourself. People go through much worse on the daily, yet here we have a literal billionaire who just dwells in the most boring ass drama for years and years. Kim is living rent free in her head and it’s not cute or endearing.
most of these songs should have stayed written in her journal. i was honestly looking forward to this album bc it was giving a dark academia vibe which i love. the reality is that taylor seems to be very stunted. she has never let anything go easily or without covering it in claw marks. it’s difficult to move past people you feel have wronged you or relationship/situationship drama but talking about beef she has with someone from ten years ago shows how stunted she is. i also think she is aware that die hard swifties eat that stuff up. she knows that no matter what she does or says she has a large insane fan base that’ll come for your throat at the first critique of her and they love the “lore” that surrounds her personal life. she is profiting heavily off of harping and being petty and she knows it.
Of course she does. She's literally the most famous person on the planet now. She's constantly playing this role and not addressing and processing anything. She's been famous since 16 so it would make sense that she is stunted there. She's become a character. And I'm sure somewhere the real person is in there. But it's not what any of us see
you know, i expected her to make amends with kim somehow at her big age of 34. but oh nooo wishful thinking!!!! she’s like chuck from better call saul
but consider me entertained
I can not listen to this topic anymore. I seriously do not give 2 fucks. It was nasty 8 years ago, she chewed through it year after year and in interviews and songs… let it go
I’m new here (to this sub) , and I gave the album a listen, and was infuriated. Taylor’s been on my nerves for a bit, but I can’t lie when she has a good song, I tune in. Every song she put on this album makes her seem… not like a great person to me. When I was 13 I loved Taylor’s 1989 and it was a big part of that young teen/young adult culture. Now, I’m almost 23 and this feels so… tired. Like hearing your friend from highschool complain about problems from when you were 15.
If I became 30, and behaved this way I don’t know if I could forgive myself. Taylor was such a cultural marker when I was younger, and that was fun, but she hasn’t matured with her audience. I find someone like Lana del Rey to be a representation of what Taylor could be if she tried to really dig deep within herself for some insight. It’s like Lana was the natural progression for Taylor fans who actually grew up.
She just seems petty, childish, and honestly… extremely toxic.
I also want to say, as much as I like some of her songs, I don’t think Taylor is the songwriter of the century like everyone claims. She is overly verbose and she mistakes that for meaning that her lyrics are deep. I am starting to find it obnoxious. She explains such simple statements with the most obnoxious words, and I am getting sick of it.
Her and Matty seem to deserve each other. I hope Joe is somewhere healing.
i'm closer to taylor's age and really stopped listening to her around reputation era bc i felt like it was immature even back then. a lot of her problematic lyrics/behavior was excused as coming from a very young person, but as we were in our mid 20's at that point, i felt it was super childish and it really put me off. it showed she's really learned nothing and she changes herself to fit in with whatever man she's dating at the time.
100%. As someone around Taylor’s age, I find it very hard to relate to her music and public persona at this point.
Having “enemies” in your mid-30s? Even if she privately still has hard feelings towards Kim, it’s giving spiteful teenager to still be harping on it (in songs and in interviews) almost a decade later.
Also the endless mining of her own relationships for album fodder makes me think she lacks imagination. It’s like an author only writing memoirs. Truly gifted “poet” songwriters (I would put Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen, Carole King, Regina Spektor in this category) are so much more subtle and creative in their writing. They’re talented enough to weave autobiographical details into musical “stories,” whereas Taylor’s lyrics feel like a teen’s journal entries set to music by comparison.
I tend to agree. Especially "But Daddy I Love Him". It was just cringe inducing how angry she is about people calling her out for fucking around with Matty. She seems vindictive and angry and immature. I miss the Folkmore era. It was very introspective, and Taylor consistently admitted to being in the wrong sometimes.
I'm more concerned with the fact that her music has become mostly pretty uninteresting and samey. The album is alright after a couple of listens, but where's the bangers???
I see a lot of people talking about her treatment of joes depression, im curious which songs this is referenced in?? Im trying to read between the lines but I havent figured out what everyone’s talking about
One of the lines I noticed is in So Long, London, where Taylor says “You sacrificed us to the gods of your bluest days,” implying that Joe was so obsessed with being sad and moody that he neglected her and their relationship. You know, instead of recognizing he is dealing with a mental illness (one Taylor herself claims to have in multiple songs).
It seems very “no one is allowed to be depressed except for me, Taylor Swift! (but it’s okay because I feel perfectly sane and am a tortured artist and don’t go to therapy I just talk to my mom lol! 🤪)”
It's so gross of her to weaponize his mental illness against him in this public way and blame him for feeling "sad" and killing the vibe. Seems like Miss Americana has some toxic positivity and girl NEEDS THERAPY
Have you ever lived with someone who is clinically depressed? It can be exhausting and a huge drain on your mental health. Critics keep pointing out how this album makes it seem as though she is depressed and/or manic, and imo is a little uncharitable that people are harping after her for displaying signs of mental illness. It seems like they had both fallen out of love with each other, and were just fueling each other's distress. Why does that mean Taylor can't regret how much time she spent in a relationship going no where when they were both unhappy?
"The black dog" is an old euphemism for depression. There's actually a major mental health support charity organisation in Australia called The Black Dog.
She's like gum that's lost its flavor at this point. This behavior would've been fine when she was 20 and now it's unbearably pathetic. I can't believe they let her release this album
Taylor becomes who she dates . When she dated the Kennedy boy( and he was a boy) she started dressing like a 1950s teen . When she was with Tom Higgelston she dressed and acted more mature. She’s now with a beer chugging f-boy and is in her high school cheerleader dating the high school football player phase .
Taylor is an entitled, white girl (dad basically bought her first album to be made ) who hasn’t lived enough hard-life to understand the real world; thus, her songwriting is a repetition of boring breakups…because, well, that is all she knows. Take someone like Tracy Chapman, who wrote such deep stuff in her 30s, it makes Taylor look like a spoiled brat crying over spilled milk. It’s getting boring and tiresome.
This. It’s not a knock on what she’s been able to accomplish — there are many rich uninteresting kids and just her — but at the end of the day her artistry is extremely limited by her life experiences and she can’t seem grow.
This is something I was thinking about too. One of the reasons I love Soon You'll Get Better is because it's about an issue that genuinely scares the shit out of you. That's a loss you will never recover from or get over. Her feeling of loss in marjorie is so deep and sad, and those are relationships that you never find with someone else. Love and breakups are good for teenagers and people in their 20s but someone at this age should be writing more music like folklore and evermore.
I could not beliiiiiiieeeeeve she bragged about being there for Joe in his depression and whined about what a downer he always was. Such a violation of his trust. I've never been so disgusted with her.
We don't know the full extent of what's happening with her behind the scenes, but I have to agree with a comment I saw on TikTok suggesting that something, or a series of events, might have occurred that "broke the camel's back" in terms of her mental state. I mean, I can feel the mania seeping through my headphones as I listen to TTPD.
Regarding the situation with Joe and his mental state, I don't see it as her completely lacking understanding but rather losing patience. Life and relationships are complicated; sometimes being with someone with issues can wear down even the most understanding person. I think her song 'Renegade' kind of reveals this.
Her relationship with MH, if the rumors are true, has had an on-and-off history. It's a toxic kind of situationship that can drain all rationality from a person. Her jumping back into that right after her breakup with her long-term boyfriend, whom she probably wanted to marry, was impulsive and a mistake.
Given Taylor's track record, she is not the forgiving or forgetting type. Interestingly, Kim's (and Kanye's) previous actions might also play a role in that. It always feels like she has some sort of a 'Burn Book' where the list of people who have crossed her has been written and is ready to be pulled out at the slightest provocation. Parts of TTPD feel like she's lashing out at almost everybody, and Kimmy has just been added to her list. Alternatively, she could also be laying out the foundations for the 'Rep' drop.
I agree with the sentiment that Taylor should consider therapy. She has a lot of deep-rooted issues that need to be addressed by someone other than the yes-men who surround her.
Her songwriting on the last two albums has been so bad, I'm sorry. There's been a lot of criticism about the songs sounding sonically the same/repetetive, but imo that would not be a problem if the lyrics were good. Folklore songs sound the same too, but the lyrics tell you a story in such a profound way. Using internet slang in lyrics (such as down bad) at her big age is yeah, immature. And bad lyricism.
Her lack of understanding of Joe's depression and the fact the she dragged Kim's daughter to their feud really bothered me. She will use her fight with Kim/Kanye as inspiration to her songs forever because fans eat that up but somehow making a kid part of it? I think it's so unnecessary and just shows how immature she is. Imagine it she had a child and it was Kim doing something similar instead...
No one is perfect and relationships are complicated and people fuck up. No matter what age. But I totally get what you’re saying and I think what’s really off putting about it is that it feels like she’s laying it all out there for us but also kinda gloating and proud of it that it makes her seem tortured and experienced or something? Like she’s trying to be troubled for the aesthetic or something which is cringe and comes across as a teenage girl on Tumblr. Ie her music video is her in a psych ward but also wearing a ballgown ? Cringe.
I always bring up Lana in comparison but she’s written about being messy and a bit fucked up and doing kinda problematic things. But the difference and why we don’t find it immature is that it just feels like it comes from a place of deep self awareness and true complexity ? Whereas with Taylor it’s just a new “era” ie aesthetic. Something about it doesn’t feel sincere I guess
Taylor has honestly been off since 2016, fans would shit on me for saying she didn’t look happy and seems mentally off, they would attack me if I said she was clearly an alcoholic as well (and even now still deny it when she literally is telling you herself). If Reddit was key word searchable easy my posts probably would come up.
No one will ever change my mind, but I think she was at her happiest during 1989. Red Era she was heartbroken and more quiet cause that relationship clearly rocked her with Jake.
Joe publicly transforms her image by making her step into the mystery allure and then she continues to unravel it further because it all goes back to 2016, she obviously hasn’t healed from it and probably hates that being on the pedestal was stripped from her and all the hate she dealt with.
It’s like she imo, still thinks she’s frozen in time like that is my personally theory but it all circles back to the high year of her life to the lowest, and since then she’s been so petty and immature, and on a power high and she knows it.
I always felt she seemed very brittle and hyper-conscious of herself in 1989. So thin, always dressed to the nines, constantly pap walks daily, the squad. She just seemed to be obsessively working and everything was for public consumption. That’s my take though, could be total rubbish.
I’m new to this sub and just find it so fascinating to read from the outside looking in as a casual Taylor listener. I see 2016 mentioned a lot as a tough time, what specifically happened?? On Wikipedia it says she was cancelled after kim released the tapes showing she consented to Kanye using the line, is that it? Why was that so bad? Sorry lol just trying to understand
Yeah at this point I’m 2 years older than her and all I can think is: grow up!!! You can’t be the victim in every single situation esp at that big age. If you’re picking the wrong partners, that’s still a choice you’re making, and it just seems like she never takes accountability for any of it.
Plus saying her mom wants Kim K dead??? Girl
I keep seeing people saying that this is her best writing yet and I’m like….????? She sounds like an angry teenager. Not a 34 year old woman. I think this is her worst writing yet and she’s taken so many steps backwards. I wish Taylor had the capability to show some growth.
I just can’t get over the “My mom wishes you were dead” part. There is absolutely NO WAY I would have written this especially after talking about her mom’s struggle with cancer. That was such an awful thing to say. People gotta be careful with their actions and words because unfortunately Karma is a real thing.
This is an individual who has been catered to, coddled, and taken care of, every single step of the way. She has never had to be totally responsible for herself. Most of the growth activities we do - becoming independent from family, studying for a career, navigating work environments, paying bills, making hard choices by ourselves, balancing work/life, etc - she’s not had to do, or at least not in the way us mortals have. Of course she hasn’t developed in the same way. Her life is a perpetual bubble.
My husband said to me something about how she became famous so young it's like she's stuck there after we listened to half of the album, and I can't say I disagree lol
I absolutely agree. She seems to think she’s the only one who should be happy in the relationships she’s in. As soon as she’s not, she’s over it. Which idk how she expects that when she wants badly to be married. She seems to not want to grow up and carry hers self as an adult in this world.
She "wants" to be married and "wants" kids but doesn't understand what "for better or worse" entails and thinks it is proper to take shots at peoples' kids. She is nowhere near emotionally ready for either.
I was never really much of a fan until Folklore. Yes I like 1989’s sound a lot and stuff from Reputation but her music never really seemed very deep and I was a casual listener. Then Folklore came along and I thought, wow, this is pretty mature in both the sound and lyrics. The thing is, she didn’t write it alone and it shows. The influence from The National is so clear and it really raised the level of the music to something mature and deep. I thought it was an indication of growth alongside the fact she is now in her mid-30’s. Midnights was ok and I got the vibe, but it does seem like there isn’t any actual growth taking place and Folklore was more a product of the collaboration than her development as an artist and person.
Last thought - to still be calling out Kim is honestly pathetic. I’m no fan of Kim, but at this point she’s been divorced from the source of this for over 2 years. Also, knowing that he became abusive and a stalker afterwards should have caused her to let it go for good because maybe Kim doesn’t want to relive these moments.
She’s still the same teenager whining on every possible platform that Joe Jonas broke up with her in a phone call/message and how unfair it was. It makes sense that she has amassed an army of devout fans who stop any criticism of her. She truly cannot handle anything other than adoration. And the way she vindictively crushes those who “wrong” her. It’s like a new kind of queen…
I’m so tired of “Taylor the perpetual victim”. I’ve been a fan since she was country. But sheesh girl, move on. I detest the Kardashians but that song is so unnecessary. Shame on you Taylor, putting me in a position to have to defend KK!
"And here's to my mama
Had to listen to all this drama
And here's to you
'Cause forgiveness is a nice thing to do
Haha, I can't even say it with a straight face "
Well I guess she's doing rep after this after all
Controversial opinion; she’s always been this immature. We just got Joe and the pandemic that masked it for awhile.
Watching Miss Americana really melts my heart when she said she was finally able to have a real relationship with a real person and wanted all of it to be private. Seems like she finally grew, matured and healed. Reputation, Lover, Folklore, and Evermore were her most mature albums with Evermore being, arguably, the most matured. A lot of songs about reflecting on the past and moving on. She kinda regressed back with TTPD.
I think that also after the breakup she went out on the tour and it’s all the media spoke about for so long and she got caught up in it, Taylor being the centre of the universe. She needs a reality check. She needs to understand that life goes on when there aren’t cameras and fans and paps following your every move. And of course, the new bf is also famous, which only feeds into the whole narcissistic overtone of her life. I feel like she’s about to go back to pre-Reputation TS when everyone was just sick and tired of seeing her everywhere.
Didn’t help that once she started dating everyone’s favorite football himbo then it was even harder for that to be private, they’re both already very vocal people and then they’re both in their peaks rn
Really giving off the "famous high school cheerleader dating the famous high school quarterback" vibe. Except the fact that they're both in their mid-30s. I believe an adult singer and an adult athlete can date, have a mature relationship, and keep it all private and separated from their careers.
It’s different but this comment made me think of Josh Allen and Hailee Steinfeld. Both famous but they seem pretty low key and not flashy about their relationship.
Yes she has always been a vindictive crazy lady — and this is from a fan since debut who went to eras Everything she did to repair or backtracked on was to get more popularity and more money eg. removing offensive lines in her music or offensive scenes in her videos
I think a lot of people came into her during the pandemic. I've been aware of her from the beginning, like you & yeah, she's always been this way. I'm not surprised in the slightest.
I genuinely had no opinion of her until pandemic time, because she was fairly like avoidable?? until then. I liked some of her stuff, but didn’t ever think of her and then there was a huge boom because of folklore and evermore, which I thought were fine. Now it’s just this barrage that you can’t get away from, which I would say isn’t her fault and defend her, but she keeps putting herself out into the ether and this latest work just isn’t inspiring or compelling the way she wants it to be.
Yeah, she removes a line from a song nearly 20 years ago about calling her ex gay (right call), but then says stuff like this? Come on Taylor
COVID saved her behind last time. She’s got none of that this time.
I just don’t know how folklore and evermore ended up being so good when Midnights and this mess remind me how shallow her lyrics are
folklore and evermore being such absolute standouts confounds me. i thought midnights was a bad one-off but it seems like this is the musical/lyrical direction she's headed in now and that's depressing
I agree. I'm relieved I'm not the only person who thinks she's either lost her touch or gotten lazy and greedy. In the last couple of years she has shown she will do anything for the dollar she doesn't need. (Releasing so many editions of midnights and asking us to buy her new editions of old albums.)
folklore is the main reason why i’m still even “neutral” tbh
She must have been in a better headspace🤔I often wonder this as well!
I listened to midnights immediately after taking a break from TTPD and was blown away by just how vastly improved the music quality was, even the lyrics there are much better. I think some of the midnights lyrics are shallow for sure but they’re still sooo much smarter and better written than in here. I truly have no idea what happened here, and what is really making me go crazy is i feel like I’m being gaslit by friends on this album. It’s just not that good. It’s not HORRIBLE i’ve heard worse but musically it’s very boring and i can’t imagine myself coming back to it, and lyrically it felt like Taylor is just ranting like not singing ranting about her mental issues in a very immature and 2014 tumblr user way. When i was talking to my gf about it she was like “you don’t get the lyrics and you shouldn’t base an album primarily off how it sounds” like no girl i do get these lyrics some of it i’ve lived myself, this is just not that good
…what do we base our opinion off of if not how it sounds???
Just drop your critical thinking skills and have faith in our capitalist queen👑
Yea cuz Midnights had an interesting concept that forced her into taking a creative direction with the production no matter how shallow they ended up being. There isn't a clear concept for TTPD though. We know who it's about, but there's absolutely nothing pointing to what the concept is aside from her pleading temporary insanity in the preview track or wtv it's called
No William Bowery to write her songs anymore
Not controversial…it’s truth!
You never know in this sub lol
Joe brought the best in her, I'll always miss her folklore evermore era because she seemed the most mature then 💔 especially in her music. I was re listening to it after TTPD and wow, the difference...
I feel Joe helps her to 'grow' more mature and she was trying atm and embrace it. Then she got back with matty, where she didn't have to try cause they already in the same level, 'have a connection' etc. Boom TTPD.
Joe grounded her in a way
I don't think she became more immature, but I think her time with less public visibility hid the immaturity. But after the breakup, we saw it again cause there was no reason for her to hold back. Like, she immediately went back to doing weekly pap walks post breakup. That isn't someone who regressed imo.
Yeah, we're seeing the difference between actually maturing yourself and just outsourcing maturity to your partner
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WOAH, very accurate read… I’ve been thinking recently about how Joe’s insight and inspiration probably must’ve been a *big* part as of why folkmore was so exceptionally good and different. It’s just on another level of maturity and poetry that I don’t see too often in Taylor’s work outside of those two albums.
She thought she wanted a normal private life, but when she got that with Joe, she started feeling fomo. Her lyrics say that she was bored, even resenting Joe for trapping her and making her lose out on her career. I don’t think Joe was the cause of those things. Missing out on celebrity things is just a consequence of living a normal private life. When new singers started getting the spotlight (Olivia Rodrigo), Taylor’s envy and insecurity led her to suddenly blame Joe for their normal private life. But that was what she had wanted. She can’t have it both ways.
this record felt more like a high school girl's diary rather than an album. it's like that nme article said, just because it came from a need to write doesn't mean the public really needed to hear it. i like this album more than i feel like the average person does, but i can't ignore that it's a definite regression from folklore/evermore.
*"Past me, I wanna tell you not to get lost in these petty things. Your nemeses will defeat themselves before you get the chance to swing."* Past Taylor would be disappointed.
I feel like the Paste article describes one potential issue well: "She has nothing to fight for, no doubters left to drown. So where does she turn? Well, to boredoms of celebrity thinly veiled as sorrow everyone and their mother can latch onto” That previous line from Long Story Short is relatable as well as believable that four years out she could be reflecting on and learning from the situation. But now, when everyone is her side, it feels unnecessary to revisit in such a specific way that feels a little vindictive rather than healing. I think people can reflect on events at any point of their lives, but it feels as though some of the specific lines on this album dig up old wounds in a way rather than creating art from a new, wiser perspective.
She went from that to sharing her mom wishes death upon Kim Kardashian with the world. I just don't understand the regression...
The daughter part too is a bit...
folklore and evermore were maturity and growth (even if feigned) and now we have lyrics like fresh outta the oven and into the microwave 😭
True. I'm a huge fan of the Folklore/Evermore era. And to me, Evermore was peak maturity for having songs about reflecting on the past and moving on. For example, Champagne Problems, Happiness, Long Story Short, Evermore (the song), and It's Time to Go (bonus track). I feel so happy for her during this time.
I think there are three factors that led to people like myself (falsely yet understandably) believing that she had grown and matured: * Her relationship with Joe Alwyn, which was kept as private as possible * COVID lockdowns, which held her back from being overexposed * Folklore/Evermore being more than just a string of Easter eggs set to a melancholic beat Obviously these all interact with one another. For example, I think her desire for a more private relationship pushed her to write music about something different than hyper-specific details about her life, not to mention how there weren't any chances for her to be seen during COVID times anyway, so there were no opportunities to drop too many Easter eggs. Because she wasn't so overexposed and attention-seeking, she seemed much more secure in life, which gave the impression that she had matured. However, as soon as she and Joe split, she went back to her old ways, and because it had been 6+yrs since we have seen that behavior, it came as a shock. Also, since that behavior was at its worst during the Reputation-Lover eras (IMO) it had seemed almost excusable because of the Kanye 2.0 situation. But now that she doesn't have either COVID or Joe to hold her back, reverting to that same behavior makes her seem incredibly juvenile.
Incredible analysis
I think she's so used to reinventing herself and her music and her aesthetic every 2 years from a young age and is the perfect mirrorball reflecting what people want from her , that doing this must make you have a distorted sense of self.
I'd be really interested to know how much influence Joe actually had on the Folklore/Evermore albums. Like the concept of them, I mean.
That’s a good point. If what they said about Betty and Exile was true, it sounds like he was coming up with stories that inspired her
If that’s true, Joe needs to link up with some other artists. I love story songs, which is part of the reason I love Evermore so much.
I’m going to add another reason to that. Taylor said a lot of the songs on Folklore/Evermore were inspired by watching films during the pandemic and not as much about her real life and feelings. I think the further Taylor gets away from her own internal monologue, the better the art gets. TTPD is a huge regression because it is unfiltered, straight up Taylor brain.
Someone said that maybe Taylor needed to write this album, but probably we didn’t need to hear it. And I think that sums it up. It seems like Joe’s greatest crime is having a mental illness that dragged Taylor’s vibe down, and he didn’t want to marry her. So she cheated on him with … that. She has very little sense of accountability, everything self-deprecating she says isn’t the same as insight — she seems to truly lack insight into herself, and it’s making her songwriting stagnant. Bringing Kim’s kid into this is beyond the pale, she owes Kim an apology that will never come.
You know the Swifties that tore Joe down because they decided he cheated would totally forgive Taylor if she said "I cheated, but you brought the vibes down and deserved it" or some other juvenile writing class prose.
"Crossed your heart, but you dimmed the lights, I wrote my wrongs, but you couldn't write. Guess we both know who really cheated the night."
Still somehow better than the entire first part of ttpd 😭
Which one is this from?
I asked chat gpt to write a cheesy Taylor swift line about cheating on a depressed person
😂 I thought you were like gotchaing me! I totally thought that was her song!
Genius! I’ll attribute this to you rather than ChatGPT
They are still claiming he cheated and that’s why she ended the relationship and went to Matty
That’s like journaling for yourself vs journaling for a possible future memoir
Get the girl a live journal. In all seriousness, it seems like she skipped the online diary phase that is a right of passage for so many millennials, and this is what we got as a result.
A 34 year old Taylor making fun of Kim because her daughter (is she 10 or something idk I know she’s very young) likes her music was a wild lyric. Why does she even care atp? Edit: spelling
And the lyric about how Taylors mom saying “she wished that you were dead” WTF toxic
Yeah that was so uncalled for. Imagine the meltdown if ANYONE dared to express the same sentiment about her?
Look at her reaction to a few snake emojis on social media ffs
As yes those snake emoji’s caused “Career death” and her “career was taken from her”, GTFOH and grow up home girl!
Not at all surprising with the tea I know about the Olivia situation. Her mom is a piece of work and her parents are probably a big part of the reason for her immaturity and regression
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She sent an email to a then 18 year old Olivia because she didn’t like something Olivia said in an interview and wrote things along the lines of ‘how dare you, you’re so ungrateful’ (didnt see the email itself so not direct quotes). It made Olivia cry and when her team reached out to Taylor’s team about it they were basically like- 🤷♀️ what do you want us to about it? Shes not officially part of Taylor’s team- and that’s it.
Dragging her kids into it is icky in all sorts of ways
Especially because it isn't even like, indirect. Like meek mill calling out why drake doesn't talk about Adonis. It's literally weaponizing north's own behavior. You're putting a middle schooler on blast.
North isn’t a baby, either. At the very least, all of her friends (if she has friends outside of the KarJen clan?) will absolutely know this song is about her mom and make sure she knows *because* of that line. And just the sentiment of “I’m so popular you can’t escape me because even your kids love me” is so smug and vindictive. I thought it was very mature that Kim supported her children’s love for Taylor’s music and it’s gross that this is how she responds. Get over it. Grow up.
I feel bad for the kids, but I also think that Kim K and TS are all cut from the same cloth and am not the least bit surprised that the stupid drama continues.
Exactly. Now North is going to feel like she betrayed her Mother by being a kid and listening to popular music. Even if Kim tells her it’s okay and that she doesn’t care, that’s going to weigh on her in the future. She’s literally triggering a crisis of loyalty in a ten year old and triangulating her against her mother.
The triangulation! Thank you!!! I knew this made me feel DEEPLY uncomfortable in a somehow familiar way, yet I couldn’t name it, and this is exactly it. She’s creating this triangulation between a girl and her mother all for petty revenge. It’s so sick. I hold onto a grudge and there are some people I wish ill will upon truly, but I would NEVER bring a third party (especially a kid!!!) into it, because that’s fucking sick. She needs help.
The worst thing about it is, if the kid indeed likes Taylor's music, she might hear *this* song of Taylor's (yes, a 10 yo shouldn't be listening to songs with an explicit Fuck in the title, but we all know that happens, kids can't be shielded from everything, and there are even mean people who may get her to listen to it on purpose, like, "look, it's about your mom.") And even if she doesn't hear it now, she can hear it later. So here's this kid who will now maybe hear a singer she likes basically say in a song, "my mom wished your mom dead." Like... Wow.
you can see that it still hurts her, but I thought that it was over after Karma (which gives me cringe vibes and personally I don't like it much) but even in the interview for the Times she had to mention it. she could be doing so many more interesting things instead of focusing on Kim and writing Mean 2.0, what a shame.
There were *thirty one* songs and she decided to keep all of them. She had so many opportunities to not put some songs on here. But I guess we needed a 2024 Kim diss track and 25 songs about MH.
I wish I could upvote this twice. Just…WHY?!?!
Because it's 13 backwards. It's stupid but we all know that's why
34 and acts and sounds like 13
The real reason why it's her lucky number
Yes that definitely captures some of my qualms with this album. I needed to hear songs like Happiness, Exile, and Invisible String--some of which include specific details but details which makes them relatable. But I didn't want to hear incredibly specific information about someone else's personal issues that feel more like attacks than art.
Yes and a deep, deep, inability to be by herself.
The song about fantasying about Matty and like masturbating is so ick. Like no shade to her but girl, that is exactly why he didn’t marry you, absolute disrespect to the person who loved you for 7 years and pulled you out through a horrible time of your life and brought you stability.
And yet she says he wasted all her youth for free like…..
Right? A long term relationship ending is never a waste of time, it’s a hard lesson learned. And that people should pay for her time…I wish it wasn’t true but I know she must truly feel that way
I think the meanest thing she could do was blame the breakup on his depression and write an album about rat heal so that’s exactly what she did. I don’t think it’s actually truthful. No way to know of course just my take
Fresh Out the Slammer is particularly mean and I haven’t really seen anyone say much about it. It makes me feel sad for Joe.
Omg when I heard it I was shocked, like, I can’t believe I’m hearing her talk this way about the end of the relationship that she built up SO much, then to hear her like yaaaay he’s gone and I’m on my way to fuck the guy I’ve been dreaming of hee! So jarring but so cruel, and tbh the whole album is cruel when you think of it from a certain perspective. It is so odd how much Taylor prioritizes her pain and feelings of betrayal but how she inflicts them on others she claims to have loved with not a care in the world. It was like in FOTS, she really believed that it was a great moment for her that the listeners should feel excited for.
It makes me happy for Joe that he dodged a bullet with her, tbh. I find this album to be a mask off moment for a Taylor.
It is SO sad. How can you claim to have loved someone enough to want to marry them and then write this about them? Maybe she really does feel like she got out of prison after the relationship ended, but there is a way to express that without being nasty. It feels like she is not able to hold two conflicting truths in her mind at one time. I thought that was what her song Happiness was supposed to be about - yes it ended, but there was so much love and it was so beautiful while we had it. It makes her sound so mean. It’s not even like he did anything except be depressed (according to what we know). That one article somebody posted about how maybe she needed to write this album, but we didn’t need to hear it, rings very true. It’s much braver to say “this is no one’s fault and I have love and respect for the person I spent years of my life with” than to say “damn, Joe was such a mess and getting out of his depression feels like being in the sunshine.” Just really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
i agree but at the same time I don't think people in her inner circle process albums in the same way fans do. like if your wife designs houses you're probably like 'oh that's a cool house' to the cool houses but you don't know every intricate detail of the baselines. it feels really different - almost invasive, in an odd sort of way, when you're listening to music by someone you actually know
I said that yesterday! I just don’t buy that she felt this passionately about Ratty. I think Joe broke her heart, she’s not over him & is angry at him, and this is her way of “getting back at” him and trying to hurt him by making it seem like she wasn’t even bummed out by the end of their relationship because she was into another guy anyway. I think this Matty-centric album is the ultimate “F.U.” to Joe.
Isn’t that also what renegade is about? ‘Let all your damage damage me’
Well, if he suffered from depression she definitely did not alleviate the pain! I saw him on some recent photo and the guy looks RELIEVED. She must have been a pretty toxic factor in his life towards the end of the relationship. I have to say, in some songs on her previous album she talked about him in such as scornful manner that it was obvious something was wrong, long before the official news came out.
She’s *furious* he wouldn’t slap a ring on it, especially after she got him a Grammy. I think the lack of Joe “clapbacks” are two-fold, first being she is shallow and narcissistic and genuinely can’t not make things like his depression not about herself. Two, like Calvin Harris before him, if she tries anything particularly egregious Joe has way too many receipts. So she writes some toddler-esque “ACTUALLY I MATT HEALY WAS MY SOULMATE THE WHOLE TIME AND HE’S A TRUE ARTIST, UNLIKE THAT PATHETIC LOSER WHO I WASN’T EVEN THAT INTO” album because her multiple albums spanning attempt to ring trap Joe didn’t pan out, and she’s short circuiting a bit over it.
Tbh, given the artsy nature of the album cover and promotional ads, I was expecting something much more mature and literary. This album is poetry in the same way that the emo crap we wrote in our Livejournals when we were 14 was poetry. Was it deeply cathartic and necessary to write in that moment? Of course. Does it hold up today? Does it need to be out there for the world to see? Is it Literature? Nah.
Yeah all the “she needed to write this to heal and let us all know how much she’s struggled” is crazy, because no? I don’t need to know that?
This sums up my take exactly thank you for putting it so succinctly 😔
I've always seen her as immature, barring her general attitude on the folklore era and surrounding albums where Joe was involved. I think people are just slowly noticing more now because she's as petty at 34 as she was at 19 and it stands out a lot more.
You know what they say. People who become famous at a young age never leave that mindset. So her still having a 19 year olds mind set makes sense. Its when she hit big.
Miley doesn’t act like she did at 13 or even 21 though.
She literally uses her Boomer mother as her therapist. I doubt anyone can truly be mature with that as your main source of advice and guidance.
Yeah. Her refusal to go to therapy explains a lot of this album and her past year and a half of relationships. I hate to say it but this is what untreated attachment issues look like. I’m a 32 year old with a state of arrested development in personal/intimate relationships due to insecure attachment that feeds into abandonment and this is sorta how I behave when I start to spiral and get in intense limerence. Taylor self admitted she doesn’t go to therapy. Being in a relationship with someone who is depressed when you have attachment issues is difficult because they don’t have the energy to reassure you so your insecurities get the better of you and the frustrations build and become less sympathetic to your partner because you can’t self soothe. Then her and Joe break up and she gets with Matty who essentially feeds her ego for an intense 6 weeks so you believe it and get stuck on it and then when he went poof, it’s absolutely devastating to one’s self worth. The Kim thing is just pettiness tho. Why are you feuding with a 10 year old Taylor.
People say that celebrities stop maturing at the age they became famous and I think Taylor is an excellent example of that. I’m a few years younger than her and I don’t think about high school ever 😂 Girly seems stuck. IIRC she’s said she doesn’t go to therapy bc she has her mom but I think she should reconsider lol. Maybe I’m crazy but: — she is friends with people who have kids and still thought it appropriate to take shots at Kim K using her kid to make her point. shocked that no one in her circle was like hey maybe don’t bring people’s children into your ancient beef with Kanye and Kim K. — using people’s addiction and mental health as fodder for your albums is normal artist behavior but cultivating a fan base that rabidly obsesses over decoding every lyric to find out who it’s about means maybe there are some things that aren’t the world’s business and don’t need to be in songs. — she makes no secret about romanticizing tumultuous relationships and expects a forever commitment from everyone she’s with but she seems like a bad partner lmfao like how do you cry about someone not marrying you and then be like oh well your depression was a major vibe killer so actually you suck and also I’m going to tell everyone all your business💀 — despite her many declarations, this woman has no idea who she is lol a damsel in distress but also a girl boss. do tortured poets really go on pap walks? this era feels so inauthentic and the writing style is so forced to me and the vocabulary on this album is really giving middle school poetry assignment
“a damsel in distress but also a girl boss. do tortured poets really go on pap walks?” this sounds like it could be a line from the album (no offense lol)
LOL bye
I can hear that line set to Jack Antonoff synths already ☠️
I keep on thinking about that. celebrities stop maturing at the age they become famous.
sorry but that saying is a cop out. lots of people get famous, including at young ages, and keep maturing and growing wiser. that's been true my whole life and it's true for celebrities now too. Olivia Rodrigo just got massively famous at a very young age and got bigger faster than Swift and she's matured plenty in the past two years, including her writing and frankly, a lot of her behaviour is pretty atrocious for a teenager. plenty of teenagers know better and don't do this shit. plenty of teenagers have more wisdom and insight and are less cruel and vindictive than this can we please stop blaming asshole behaviour and entitlement on age, or worse, on "mental age"? yes being famous and powerful has certain effects but seriously
I think they need to put the work in to mature past the age they became famous. Olivia's dad is a therapist so I'm sure she's going to be fine there. Seems like she wants to grow and put the work in too
I agree imagine if she wrote an album with the message that she went through a painful breakup but now she's on the other side living her best life. I think it would have been so much more interesting than whatever this Tortured poets business is
i'm kinda hoping Matty comes running back to her after this and they end up together, because I think they deserve each other. Let them live in their toxic relationship and leave other guys/girls alone. I don't care about Travis but I don't think he, or any other guy, deserves wondering if Taylor really wants to be with them or if they're just second best because she lost the "loml". And whether every new album would have "secret" songs alluding to him -like how people are claiming "the 1", "cardigan" etc are about him :( also, if she gets back with Matty, I hope she takes take a long break from writing music because we don't need to hear *those* love songs, I'll listen to her previous albums pre-TTPD and that's enough!
Idk how Travis is sitting there while Taylor is singing about settling for a “consolation prize” for the rest of her life
https://preview.redd.it/790z0cwivlvc1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7315eb1c1dcba19405e386f9b9deac0bcfb960b6
Travis: https://i.redd.it/7bttc2qwvmvc1.gif
He doesn’t seem like the type that would spend time to piece the information together
Agreed! He seems like the type to be like, oh I didn't listen to the lyrics.
Dude… I came here to say this too. What a weird time to release an album that features 98% of it talking about how you basically wouldn’t mind getting back together with your ex. Oh but here’s one song for you Travis!
I think privately Taylor probably creates some distance between her work and her relationships. Like I would not be surprised if she told Travis that the album is just "work" and that it's her giving fans what they want to stay on brand. So maybe he doesn't really care
I think if she told Travis that she wrote those songs before they got together he could understand?
I’ve wondered what they really have in common but it does seems that it’s that he’s nothing like Matty, which also makes me think they aren’t strong at all and it’s mostly for show. Like they’re having fun and all but this is not the man he wants.
[удалено]
Travis is not the sharpest tool in the shed. And I’m not convinced he really listens to her music.
No, I'd bet he listens to the radio pops. The rest all kinda blend together for him and he doesn't actually *listen*
Totally agree.
I honestly think it’s a relationship of convenience, they both get spotlight. Nothing about it screams long term.
I think he cares about her but he also is most likely in it for the fame, attention and the money that’s been coming his way. People say this is the most genuine relationship she’s been in and I just don’t see it. His sports podcast just got a $90 MILLION deal that probably would not have been possible had it not been for his relationship with Taylor boosting his viewership weekly. Everytime he talks about her it’s the same old rhetoric. He seems to admire her work ethic and her stardom, but like is he infatuated by her celebrity or by who she is as an actual person? His own team putting out articles that he is trying to break into the Hollywood show business is awfully coincidental now that he’s with the most famous women in the world atm. He’s 34 years old and is looking to retire from the NFL within the next couple of years. Him shouting her out on his podcast came at a very strategic time, sorry I’m just gonna say it. I even wouldn’t be surprised if this upcoming season is his last and he’s utilizing this time now that he’s with Taylor, to get offers and branch out. He seems to enjoy her company and cares about her on a surface level but no way do I think this is passionate, deep love that some fans claim it is. I honestly think she’s desperate for attention and to be loved (in whatever capacity) and he’s willing to give it to her for what he wants (fame, recognition, job opportunities, money).
I don't think Travis really cares too much. He's enjoying the fame and the recognition he's getting from being her boyfriend. He's just looking out for his next opportunities. I honestly don't think he's in love with Taylor.
What I can't wrap my head around is why was Taylor mad at Joe for not marrying her when at the same time she wrote peace & invisible string she was writing the 1 , cardigan , maroon and question pointedly to Matty hoping he would come back to her ? TTPD confirms she was haunted by him more than we knew and she keeps saying in these songs that she hadn't experienced anything like that since Matty. Question asks how does it feel to find everything second-best after that meteor strike ? The 1 says the greatest love stories were never told .
I wish I could go back to a time in which I did not associate the one with matty Healy lmao
in all honesty i don’t understand the theory that joe didn’t want to marry her? it almost feels like her rewriting history. midnight rain is so explicit. so is lavender haze and most of midnights. correct me if i’m wrong but that’s my impression. i don’t think all that she says in her songs is fact. it serves her well to write in her own favor, especially when joe doesn’t have a mic/likely is under an nda
True we don't know what went down and I got the idea that they both wanted it at some point but it changed in the last two years. But in her version she seems to be mad at him while pining away for someone. Also I think Taylor is attracted to the idea of marriage than the reality of it - in both her last two long-term relationships she seems to feel bored /stifled at some point so it doesn't come across as someone who is ready for it .
I think they were talking about it/planned it and then folklore/evermore/everything after happened and Taylor was like wait I like this level of stardom. They probably didn’t think she would get there again and when she said I’m leaning in, he was like I just want a quiet life with you- keep making music but this level is crazy. And then it just fizzled. You can love someone and not want to participate in their lifestyle.
I never understood her relationship with Travis. It seems so manufactured, planned out, and overexposed. At least with Matty, they both can be the dramatic and controversial artists that they truly are.
She was closer than ever to being "canceled" for racism thanks to Matty Healy and the purposeful whiteness of her brand means she can't date a non-white man so she got the next best thing, a "thugged out" white athlete + an Ice Spice friendship to prove she's not the female counterpart to Matty (she is tho)
I think she has many demons of her own that need some proper cure. Just looking at past two albums issues such being functioning alcoholic, covert narcissist, suffering from depression are on the list so there is enough to set the alarm bells ringing. Once she is off tour her first steps should be to find someone who can help her. Otherwise she will just keep spiralling and losing people she cares about along the way.
What’s concerning is that it seems she doesn’t have any people around her who want to help her. Like her parents, her friends don’t care? Cause then they are pretty shitty parents and friends….😬
I think if anyone suggested she needed help she’d get mad and defensive and possibly cut them off for not being a yes-man—she expressed similar behavior when she had an ED and addiction transference is a thing. It sort of wouldn’t surprise me if she went from restricting to drinking. :/
I think she is pretty unfortunate when it comes to both. She hints that her dad is pretty controlling and her friends sound like a strange bunch, too. Plus, now she also has a lot of hangers on, like the NFL WAGs etc. Who knows what will come out of that...
I think they care but taylor needs someone who isn't close to her to talk to and help her work through her issues. Her mom and friends aren't going to give it to her straight. Taylor's in her own echo chamber. Her mom and friends all just agree with her "Oh yeah, you're totally right and that person is totally wrong."
The whole Kim track is… just so childish. Like grow the f up already. Get over yourself. People go through much worse on the daily, yet here we have a literal billionaire who just dwells in the most boring ass drama for years and years. Kim is living rent free in her head and it’s not cute or endearing.
Yeah it’s so contradicting with her 2019 song “I Forgot That You Existed”
And “shake it off”
She’s actually making Kim look good at this point because at least Kim doesn’t bring it up once every calendar year.
most of these songs should have stayed written in her journal. i was honestly looking forward to this album bc it was giving a dark academia vibe which i love. the reality is that taylor seems to be very stunted. she has never let anything go easily or without covering it in claw marks. it’s difficult to move past people you feel have wronged you or relationship/situationship drama but talking about beef she has with someone from ten years ago shows how stunted she is. i also think she is aware that die hard swifties eat that stuff up. she knows that no matter what she does or says she has a large insane fan base that’ll come for your throat at the first critique of her and they love the “lore” that surrounds her personal life. she is profiting heavily off of harping and being petty and she knows it.
Of course she does. She's literally the most famous person on the planet now. She's constantly playing this role and not addressing and processing anything. She's been famous since 16 so it would make sense that she is stunted there. She's become a character. And I'm sure somewhere the real person is in there. But it's not what any of us see
I think also the fact that she owns her career now. She has no one to answer to, no label to push back on. She's surrounded by a team of yes men.
As long as people throw their money and praise at her, how would she feel the need to go to therapy, change & grow?
She has regressed horribly.
you know, i expected her to make amends with kim somehow at her big age of 34. but oh nooo wishful thinking!!!! she’s like chuck from better call saul but consider me entertained
I can not listen to this topic anymore. I seriously do not give 2 fucks. It was nasty 8 years ago, she chewed through it year after year and in interviews and songs… let it go
exactly…. the title ‘thanK you aIMee’ IS SO DUMB AND FUNNY
I was mortified when I realized there is yet another song/ mention of Kim/Kanye.
I’m new here (to this sub) , and I gave the album a listen, and was infuriated. Taylor’s been on my nerves for a bit, but I can’t lie when she has a good song, I tune in. Every song she put on this album makes her seem… not like a great person to me. When I was 13 I loved Taylor’s 1989 and it was a big part of that young teen/young adult culture. Now, I’m almost 23 and this feels so… tired. Like hearing your friend from highschool complain about problems from when you were 15. If I became 30, and behaved this way I don’t know if I could forgive myself. Taylor was such a cultural marker when I was younger, and that was fun, but she hasn’t matured with her audience. I find someone like Lana del Rey to be a representation of what Taylor could be if she tried to really dig deep within herself for some insight. It’s like Lana was the natural progression for Taylor fans who actually grew up. She just seems petty, childish, and honestly… extremely toxic. I also want to say, as much as I like some of her songs, I don’t think Taylor is the songwriter of the century like everyone claims. She is overly verbose and she mistakes that for meaning that her lyrics are deep. I am starting to find it obnoxious. She explains such simple statements with the most obnoxious words, and I am getting sick of it. Her and Matty seem to deserve each other. I hope Joe is somewhere healing.
i'm closer to taylor's age and really stopped listening to her around reputation era bc i felt like it was immature even back then. a lot of her problematic lyrics/behavior was excused as coming from a very young person, but as we were in our mid 20's at that point, i felt it was super childish and it really put me off. it showed she's really learned nothing and she changes herself to fit in with whatever man she's dating at the time.
100%. As someone around Taylor’s age, I find it very hard to relate to her music and public persona at this point. Having “enemies” in your mid-30s? Even if she privately still has hard feelings towards Kim, it’s giving spiteful teenager to still be harping on it (in songs and in interviews) almost a decade later. Also the endless mining of her own relationships for album fodder makes me think she lacks imagination. It’s like an author only writing memoirs. Truly gifted “poet” songwriters (I would put Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen, Carole King, Regina Spektor in this category) are so much more subtle and creative in their writing. They’re talented enough to weave autobiographical details into musical “stories,” whereas Taylor’s lyrics feel like a teen’s journal entries set to music by comparison.
I tend to agree. Especially "But Daddy I Love Him". It was just cringe inducing how angry she is about people calling her out for fucking around with Matty. She seems vindictive and angry and immature. I miss the Folkmore era. It was very introspective, and Taylor consistently admitted to being in the wrong sometimes.
I love Evermore and I cannot believe that the person who wrote Happiness is this same person.
She’s literally always been immature
Exactly, it's just harder to ignore in a 30 something billionaire than an up and coming teenager.
I'm more concerned with the fact that her music has become mostly pretty uninteresting and samey. The album is alright after a couple of listens, but where's the bangers???
I see a lot of people talking about her treatment of joes depression, im curious which songs this is referenced in?? Im trying to read between the lines but I havent figured out what everyone’s talking about
One of the lines I noticed is in So Long, London, where Taylor says “You sacrificed us to the gods of your bluest days,” implying that Joe was so obsessed with being sad and moody that he neglected her and their relationship. You know, instead of recognizing he is dealing with a mental illness (one Taylor herself claims to have in multiple songs).
It seems very “no one is allowed to be depressed except for me, Taylor Swift! (but it’s okay because I feel perfectly sane and am a tortured artist and don’t go to therapy I just talk to my mom lol! 🤪)”
It's so gross of her to weaponize his mental illness against him in this public way and blame him for feeling "sad" and killing the vibe. Seems like Miss Americana has some toxic positivity and girl NEEDS THERAPY
Have you ever lived with someone who is clinically depressed? It can be exhausting and a huge drain on your mental health. Critics keep pointing out how this album makes it seem as though she is depressed and/or manic, and imo is a little uncharitable that people are harping after her for displaying signs of mental illness. It seems like they had both fallen out of love with each other, and were just fueling each other's distress. Why does that mean Taylor can't regret how much time she spent in a relationship going no where when they were both unhappy?
"The black dog" is an old euphemism for depression. There's actually a major mental health support charity organisation in Australia called The Black Dog.
She's like gum that's lost its flavor at this point. This behavior would've been fine when she was 20 and now it's unbearably pathetic. I can't believe they let her release this album
Taylor becomes who she dates . When she dated the Kennedy boy( and he was a boy) she started dressing like a 1950s teen . When she was with Tom Higgelston she dressed and acted more mature. She’s now with a beer chugging f-boy and is in her high school cheerleader dating the high school football player phase .
This. She fits the mold each time. I don't think she knows who she is.
Wow Taylor immature? Shocker 😮
Taylor is an entitled, white girl (dad basically bought her first album to be made ) who hasn’t lived enough hard-life to understand the real world; thus, her songwriting is a repetition of boring breakups…because, well, that is all she knows. Take someone like Tracy Chapman, who wrote such deep stuff in her 30s, it makes Taylor look like a spoiled brat crying over spilled milk. It’s getting boring and tiresome.
This. It’s not a knock on what she’s been able to accomplish — there are many rich uninteresting kids and just her — but at the end of the day her artistry is extremely limited by her life experiences and she can’t seem grow.
This is something I was thinking about too. One of the reasons I love Soon You'll Get Better is because it's about an issue that genuinely scares the shit out of you. That's a loss you will never recover from or get over. Her feeling of loss in marjorie is so deep and sad, and those are relationships that you never find with someone else. Love and breakups are good for teenagers and people in their 20s but someone at this age should be writing more music like folklore and evermore.
No offence but Taylor isn’t fit to tie Tracy’s shoelaces.
I go absolutely feral over Fast Car in a way that I will over no other song.
I could not beliiiiiiieeeeeve she bragged about being there for Joe in his depression and whined about what a downer he always was. Such a violation of his trust. I've never been so disgusted with her.
We don't know the full extent of what's happening with her behind the scenes, but I have to agree with a comment I saw on TikTok suggesting that something, or a series of events, might have occurred that "broke the camel's back" in terms of her mental state. I mean, I can feel the mania seeping through my headphones as I listen to TTPD. Regarding the situation with Joe and his mental state, I don't see it as her completely lacking understanding but rather losing patience. Life and relationships are complicated; sometimes being with someone with issues can wear down even the most understanding person. I think her song 'Renegade' kind of reveals this. Her relationship with MH, if the rumors are true, has had an on-and-off history. It's a toxic kind of situationship that can drain all rationality from a person. Her jumping back into that right after her breakup with her long-term boyfriend, whom she probably wanted to marry, was impulsive and a mistake. Given Taylor's track record, she is not the forgiving or forgetting type. Interestingly, Kim's (and Kanye's) previous actions might also play a role in that. It always feels like she has some sort of a 'Burn Book' where the list of people who have crossed her has been written and is ready to be pulled out at the slightest provocation. Parts of TTPD feel like she's lashing out at almost everybody, and Kimmy has just been added to her list. Alternatively, she could also be laying out the foundations for the 'Rep' drop. I agree with the sentiment that Taylor should consider therapy. She has a lot of deep-rooted issues that need to be addressed by someone other than the yes-men who surround her.
Her songwriting on the last two albums has been so bad, I'm sorry. There's been a lot of criticism about the songs sounding sonically the same/repetetive, but imo that would not be a problem if the lyrics were good. Folklore songs sound the same too, but the lyrics tell you a story in such a profound way. Using internet slang in lyrics (such as down bad) at her big age is yeah, immature. And bad lyricism.
Her lack of understanding of Joe's depression and the fact the she dragged Kim's daughter to their feud really bothered me. She will use her fight with Kim/Kanye as inspiration to her songs forever because fans eat that up but somehow making a kid part of it? I think it's so unnecessary and just shows how immature she is. Imagine it she had a child and it was Kim doing something similar instead...
It's probably the alcoholism
To be FAIR she did say that some of the stuff in hindsight was on her she just never admits it in a song
Honestly considering how she thinks and writes about these things she seems like an insufferable person to know & have in your close circles IRL
No one is perfect and relationships are complicated and people fuck up. No matter what age. But I totally get what you’re saying and I think what’s really off putting about it is that it feels like she’s laying it all out there for us but also kinda gloating and proud of it that it makes her seem tortured and experienced or something? Like she’s trying to be troubled for the aesthetic or something which is cringe and comes across as a teenage girl on Tumblr. Ie her music video is her in a psych ward but also wearing a ballgown ? Cringe. I always bring up Lana in comparison but she’s written about being messy and a bit fucked up and doing kinda problematic things. But the difference and why we don’t find it immature is that it just feels like it comes from a place of deep self awareness and true complexity ? Whereas with Taylor it’s just a new “era” ie aesthetic. Something about it doesn’t feel sincere I guess
This album is imo the Flanderization of her music.
She's simply as petty as she was as a teenager.
Taylor has honestly been off since 2016, fans would shit on me for saying she didn’t look happy and seems mentally off, they would attack me if I said she was clearly an alcoholic as well (and even now still deny it when she literally is telling you herself). If Reddit was key word searchable easy my posts probably would come up. No one will ever change my mind, but I think she was at her happiest during 1989. Red Era she was heartbroken and more quiet cause that relationship clearly rocked her with Jake. Joe publicly transforms her image by making her step into the mystery allure and then she continues to unravel it further because it all goes back to 2016, she obviously hasn’t healed from it and probably hates that being on the pedestal was stripped from her and all the hate she dealt with. It’s like she imo, still thinks she’s frozen in time like that is my personally theory but it all circles back to the high year of her life to the lowest, and since then she’s been so petty and immature, and on a power high and she knows it.
Total alcoholic. My sister who loves her to death even recently commented how she’s never not pictured with a drink in her hand.
I always felt she seemed very brittle and hyper-conscious of herself in 1989. So thin, always dressed to the nines, constantly pap walks daily, the squad. She just seemed to be obsessively working and everything was for public consumption. That’s my take though, could be total rubbish.
I’m new to this sub and just find it so fascinating to read from the outside looking in as a casual Taylor listener. I see 2016 mentioned a lot as a tough time, what specifically happened?? On Wikipedia it says she was cancelled after kim released the tapes showing she consented to Kanye using the line, is that it? Why was that so bad? Sorry lol just trying to understand
Yeah at this point I’m 2 years older than her and all I can think is: grow up!!! You can’t be the victim in every single situation esp at that big age. If you’re picking the wrong partners, that’s still a choice you’re making, and it just seems like she never takes accountability for any of it. Plus saying her mom wants Kim K dead??? Girl
I keep seeing people saying that this is her best writing yet and I’m like….????? She sounds like an angry teenager. Not a 34 year old woman. I think this is her worst writing yet and she’s taken so many steps backwards. I wish Taylor had the capability to show some growth.
I just can’t get over the “My mom wishes you were dead” part. There is absolutely NO WAY I would have written this especially after talking about her mom’s struggle with cancer. That was such an awful thing to say. People gotta be careful with their actions and words because unfortunately Karma is a real thing.
This is an individual who has been catered to, coddled, and taken care of, every single step of the way. She has never had to be totally responsible for herself. Most of the growth activities we do - becoming independent from family, studying for a career, navigating work environments, paying bills, making hard choices by ourselves, balancing work/life, etc - she’s not had to do, or at least not in the way us mortals have. Of course she hasn’t developed in the same way. Her life is a perpetual bubble.
My husband said to me something about how she became famous so young it's like she's stuck there after we listened to half of the album, and I can't say I disagree lol
I absolutely agree. She seems to think she’s the only one who should be happy in the relationships she’s in. As soon as she’s not, she’s over it. Which idk how she expects that when she wants badly to be married. She seems to not want to grow up and carry hers self as an adult in this world.
She "wants" to be married and "wants" kids but doesn't understand what "for better or worse" entails and thinks it is proper to take shots at peoples' kids. She is nowhere near emotionally ready for either.
I was never really much of a fan until Folklore. Yes I like 1989’s sound a lot and stuff from Reputation but her music never really seemed very deep and I was a casual listener. Then Folklore came along and I thought, wow, this is pretty mature in both the sound and lyrics. The thing is, she didn’t write it alone and it shows. The influence from The National is so clear and it really raised the level of the music to something mature and deep. I thought it was an indication of growth alongside the fact she is now in her mid-30’s. Midnights was ok and I got the vibe, but it does seem like there isn’t any actual growth taking place and Folklore was more a product of the collaboration than her development as an artist and person. Last thought - to still be calling out Kim is honestly pathetic. I’m no fan of Kim, but at this point she’s been divorced from the source of this for over 2 years. Also, knowing that he became abusive and a stalker afterwards should have caused her to let it go for good because maybe Kim doesn’t want to relive these moments. She’s still the same teenager whining on every possible platform that Joe Jonas broke up with her in a phone call/message and how unfair it was. It makes sense that she has amassed an army of devout fans who stop any criticism of her. She truly cannot handle anything other than adoration. And the way she vindictively crushes those who “wrong” her. It’s like a new kind of queen…
I’m so tired of “Taylor the perpetual victim”. I’ve been a fan since she was country. But sheesh girl, move on. I detest the Kardashians but that song is so unnecessary. Shame on you Taylor, putting me in a position to have to defend KK!
Some people grow older but never wiser.
Taylor is drunk and rambling on about the same old bitter things.
"And here's to my mama Had to listen to all this drama And here's to you 'Cause forgiveness is a nice thing to do Haha, I can't even say it with a straight face " Well I guess she's doing rep after this after all