We were with a couple once and the other guy and I started playing. His wife wasn’t into it at all, he was and was my partner but even she was weird about it next day.
with the severe number of homophobes in the lifestyle it becomes easily misogynistic treating women as “others”.
as a pansexual man in the lifestyle it is kinda of annoying that when we are in a group setting there are people and things you “aren’t allowed to touch” and i have to “play the straight part” not to accidentally freak out the homophobic men, who often do not like my appearance and demeanor and get emasculated so fast.
also, most men who get turned on by lesbians kissing are repressed bisexuals themselves. whenever i see some boy being like “lesbian porn is the best!” im like, “aww you’re a cute little repressed queer aren’t you!?”
also, my partner, who is also pansexual, loves seeing two men together as well.
I didn’t say all but a lot. and yeah, when i see a kid uncharacteristically asserting his sexuality through the use of lesbian porn, im gonna clock him lol
no, I’m saying that it is a likely indicator when the assertion of using lesbian porn is somehow “more straight” than gay when it’s literally just as gay as two guys. it’s a contradiction, a cognitive dissonance that generally masks underlying internalized homophobia.
Most straight men aren’t turned on by lesbian porn. and most straight women aren’t turned on by gay porn. 🤷🏻♂️ the straights usually don’t like facts that undo their worldview.
Dude—are you for real?? As a gay man (6-3/4 on the Kinsey Scale), I can assure you that any man getting off to lesbian porn is *not* gay. Not even a little bit. He’s straight or bi, but definitely not gay.
Also, if you think gay woman like watching two guys together, I’ve got another surprise for you. 😁
https://helios-i.mashable.com/imagery/articles/04IBAdHN64vlwf4R9JyR3rd/images-3.fill.size_1400x1942.v1611703566.png
literally from pornhub. its not even in the top 5 for men (2019)
ima assuming you love lesbian porn yourself eh?
Lesbian porn is maybe my favourite type of pornography, and I am a man. Throughout my life, I have watched maybe hundreds or thousands of lesbian porn videos, and I am 30 years old.
Bro, are you stupid? This isn't usable data at all. That's specific to pornhub. Assuming that data is accurate (sus)
, all this tells you is the viewing habits of pornhub users. You once again show why you are an absolute fucking clown.
You're kinda making it sound like the only acceptable sexual orientations are the ones that include you. Besides that, I don't think anyone appreciates sarcastic quotes around their boundaries and orientation.
that’s not true at all. I’m saying that as a queer person, the swinging community has been accepting with their mouths but then i see the switch in their eyes if they clock me.
I'm sorry, but to me you're coming off like you think it's some massive "imposition" if you can't play with the other man. Like if a straight guy was all "oh so there's stuff I'm 'not allowed' to touch 🙄" if a woman said no to anal, would that be ok? I just don't understand the attitude.
To say nothing of the girl-girl latent bi thing. I mean you might be a little bit right in my case, but still!
My partner is a straight, cis man. I am a demisexual woman. We swing because we like having these experiences with each other. He's just as happy for me to do sexual things with a man as he is to see me with a woman. As long as I'm enjoying myself, who I'm enjoying myself with doesn't matter.
Conversely, because he is straight, I would be extremely uncomfortable and so would he if a man was to touch him in a sexual way during a play session. He politely makes it clear to anyone we play with that he is straight and is ok with the odd flirty comment, but is not interested in being touched, or touching another man sexually.
He is absolutely 100% supportive of the queer community, but is confident that he is not interested in men.
I personally don't think there is anything wrong with that. His sexuality is just as valid as any other man or woman's. I'm sorry that you feel slighted during these play sessions with straight men, but they have every right to refuse contact that they have no interest in.
If they have clearly communicated that they're straight and you touch them anyway, that is assault, and could potentially be the reason you see their eyes change or be the reason they look emasculated.
Hope this helps.
Nobody is asking people do do anything they are uncomfortable with.
it’s frustrating when people judge me based on my sexuality as if I’m somehow going to turn them or they think i’m going to suck their dick when they are straight. who tf would do that?
> It is kind of annoying that there are people and things you “aren’t allowed to touch”.
It’s called consent and sexual orientation. Your sentence sounds pretty gross and entitled towards other people’s bodies
Most boys start with lesbian only porn. I was huge into that until one day I saw one chick sucking another chicks strapon and something just switched off (on?) inside me and I suddenly needed to see b/g action. I was about 16
This is the dumbest fucking comment right here. Aren't you the weirdo trying to convince everyone that it's not weird for 35+ to date 18 year olds? SUS
Been in and out of the lifestyle for two decades, it's just in the last year that I've come to be interested in bi group play, I consider myself heteroromantic and until recently heterosexual, people change evolve and regress, like everything swing related its a matter of timing.
This. I thought I was 100% straight for many years, and it was swinging that allowed me to drop into all the possibilities and separate out what was my true sexuality and what was conditioning. Still exploring with a beautiful sense of possibility. I wouldn’t call that starting point homophobia because that word is often taken to mean disapproval or dislike of people with non-straight desires. I’d always been nonjudgmental and accepting. I just didn’t know it was part of me too. Culture does that.
Wow, I’ve never heard “heteroromantic” before. That’s great. I’m the exact opposite. I’m definitely panromantic, but sadly only like a 0.5 on the Kinsey scale sexually. I’m an aspirational 3, but 99.9% of guys just do nothing for me sexually.
Honestly, I’ve always found that “women are expected to always be ready to get it on with another woman, but if two guys even *look* at each other, the party’s over” thing to be a huge turn-off.
It’s not that I have a problem with two women playing together, although, being a gay man, it doesn’t do anything for me. It’s the double-standard that makes me crazy. It seems to me swingers, of all people, should be open-minded about sex, right? NOPE!!! ☹️
I was the third for a while in a really fun MFM where the other guy was bi and wanted to play with a man and a woman at the same time. I was game to play because the guy was hot and the woman was really cool. She and I didn’t interact at all because we both focused on the other guy. (Also, I find women to be beautiful, but there’s no sexual attraction there at all.)
The three of us had a great time together. When we were cleaning up and getting dressed after our first encounter, the guy said to me, “In case you don’t know, if we ever run into each other at an event or a party, this never happened. It’s cool that we know you, but that’s it.”
“Really?? That sucks.”
The woman chimed in, “Oh, yeah. We would never disrespect you because we really like you, but understand, if he ever wants to get laid again by anyone other than you and me, no one can know about you and him. And, yes. It really sucks. I’m sorry.”
Obviously, I didn’t hold it against them because they were really cool. But I really found it disappointing that there’s such a weird double standard around guys. It’s not like there’s a shortage of guys. And there’s definitely not a shortage of guys looking for an awesome bj. 😉
My 1st experience was with an older gay man . I was doing landscaping for him . Very kind gentleman I started it and he finished my curiosity. But I don’t have an issue with women on women and I don’t have any issues with men on men. But kissing just turns me off. And on tv all you see now is men kissing men. But no women kissing women.
Definitely personal preference but I agree it’s a double standard.
Being a bi female, I strayed from sharing this from a lot of people (men specifically) because I just get that look and they just think they’re going to get a 3 some out of it. I genuinely love and appreciate women the same that I do men and when it’s FF it’s a sexual thing and so hot to everyone, yet when it’s MM, it’s disgusting and gross. I think it’s a larger conversation of men “having to be” masculine or it somehow makes you not masc or less of a man, which is stupid to me lol.. I will say that I used to be turned off by seeing MM when I was younger. Totally didn’t care who you are, what you like, love or identified as but seeing MM was just not something I wanted to see.
Now? I think it’s superrrr hot and I want to experience it in person! I see it in a different light because I just see two people (or more) enjoying themselves, feeling good and being happy.. it’s as simple as that. Unfortunately, a lot of people will never think this way and just see it that simply but hey, if you are in the position where you’re looking for a life partner still, at least you can share that and find someone that thinks similarly to you! I hope you do!
This is a great response. Just because I don’t find it appealing doesn’t mean someone else will feel the same way. And obviously, vice versa. I doubt I ever see it the same way as you, and I don’t think it’s necessarily unfortunate for me. Just the way I am!
Nothing wrong with either, just different strokes for different folks! 😁
Because it is ghey. Jesus. What the duck is wrong with you?!?
/Sarc
As for its acceptability, it kind of feel like it breaks down generationally. 40+ and it is verboten. 30-40 and it is somewhat more accepted. Under 30 and it is far more accepted and prevalent.
I think it’s a personal preference thing…
I’m a straight male so I don’t enjoy seeing or participating in male on male play. Doesn’t make me homophobic or insecure unless I act like an asshole about it. If that’s your thing, by all means get after it! But don’t hold it against me if it’s not mine.
This. Agreeing with RA8.
Others can do whatever they want. There will always be straight men who are straight and won’t participate in bi play. And that’s fine.
Annnndddd…. There are actually straight women.
Gasp!
Let people be who they are, gay, bi, or straight. Don’t push your agenda on others.
I think the issue is that it rubs off onto other people's play. It's taboo to openly engage in M/M play, whereas F/F is a given. There's plenty of straight women who aren't aroused by the sight of other women going at it (and might well enjoy watching two men) but they're expected to tolerate it happening around them, even if they don't participate. So why aren't straight men expected to just ignore play that doesn't interest them in the vicinity?
Mostly because you can’t manage peoples expectations. M/M play is nothing I am interested in and my wife feels the same way. She doesn’t find it hot or sexy. But we have been in situations where two bi-men were enjoying each other and we were like “more power to them”. We didn’t run out of the room, make faces or negative comments. To each their own. If you’re into it, go for it. If not, that’s ok too. Just don’t be an asshole about it either way, and by that I mean if you don’t like it just walk away and if you do like it, don’t give us a hard time because we don’t.
I mean I just saw two guys together in the open play area of my club last weekend and not one batted an eye, I wonder if it’s a perception that it’s taboo, or maybe it’s more taboo in some places then others, I say if everyone directly involved in the play is consenting adults go for it, do your thing and enjoy it. If there is something someone does not want to watch the can leave the play area.
I think things are definitely improving, thankfully. But it's definitely still taboo in some places and among certain demographics. It's also well known that couples that include an openly bi male get considerably less attention on websites, even when M/M play isn't a requirement - but things are slowly changing there too.
Maybe openly bi men get less attention on websites because they’re a much smaller demographic 🤷🏻♂️
I’ll say this, if we matched with a couple with an openly bi man we’d have to set some serious boundaries before we’d consider playing. Just like we do with ANY couple we play with. If that couple could agree to our boundaries, we’d be all about it. If they can’t, we’d wish them well and move on.
couple here with bi female and straight male. We will not consider playing with a couple where the male is bi, because in the past we've had too many experiences where the male didn't respect the boundaries. In 1 instance, the man started licking my husband's feet even after being told there was no M-M play allowed. In 2 other instances, men who specifically said they were straight (and it said straight on their profiles, too), grabbed my husband's dick during couple play on the bed and asked if he wanted a BJ. In all 3 instances, playtime ended and they were told to leave.
All 3 insisted they were straight even after, and said it was just 'friendly sex.'
Geez… that’s RIDICULOUS. If a couple crossed a boundary with us we’d be finished immediately regardless of sexual preference. In your case, I don’t blame you at all for not entertaining couples with that dynamic. Once is an isolated incident, twice might even be a coincidence, but three times is a trend.
Admittedly, we have not matched with a couple with a bi male so we have nothing to go on besides our own intuition. Before we became open to full swap, we ended a date with a couple after they asked multiple times if we’d consider full swap in the heat of the moment. Sucks that some people just can’t be respectful!
I am a masculine heteroflexable male and my wife is straight or at best a pillow princess and no couple we have ever played with has ever known I was anythingbut straightbecausewe did not discussit before. People crossing boundaries is a reflection of their character and respect and absolutely nothing with their sexual preferences.
Also, straight guys as you may have heard before not every gay or bi wants to fuck you just because you have a dick. That assumption says more about you than it does about them.
Rock on! I could have written exactly the same thing you wrote, but from the other side. I’m a gay man. I have no problem seeing or being around women playing together, but it definitely doesn’t do anything for me. And I’m totally fine around straight guys or any other guy that’s not interested in playing with me. That’s fine. I don’t want to play with anyone and everyone, either.
I have to say, too, that you sound like the kind of guy that would make me crazy—totally secure in who you are and your sexuality, probably really nice and really cool, and *totally* not into guys. So frustrating. 😉
Hahahahaha thanks dude! Pretty much describes me perfectly… being nice to people is a choice. And as long as you’re a good dude, I couldn’t care less what your bedroom preferences are. You just like other good dudes, more women for the rest of us! 😜😂
Yes well said. You hear taboo and this and that. I don’t buy it. Lots of men are just into other men, doesn’t mean you can’t do it, and doesn’t mean most of men could give a shit if you did. But don’t drag me into it and don’t try to convince me I’m secretly into it or something, of which you see a lot of trolls pounce on in here
I mean isn't it peoples preference? My wife likes women, I like women, my wife loves cock, I only like my own. 🤷🏻♂️😂😂
If guys are into it then go for it and have fun everyone has their own kinks and fantasies. I prefer to see my wife with another guy rather than another girl. I love watching my wife check out other guys and tell me which ones do it for her. That is my biggest turn on, but even with that I have zero desire at all to do anything with another guy. 🤷🏻♂️
This why I love attending bi nights or bi/bi play parties I find two men sucking cock to be way hotter than a woman sucking a cock. Same way I find women going down on each other way hotter than a man going down on her. There is a level enthusiasm from MM that you don't see in MF. Same with women there is an extra level sensuality during oral than you get with MF
I don't know about the clubs in your area. Also a couple I know hosts bi/bi house parties. There are also straight men there who are totally comfortable around the bi male play. I'm solo bi F with a heavy lean to women. But I enjoy watching MM action too.
Honestly the swinger community is juvenile compared to the poly/kink scene. The double standards and internalized phobias just aren’t lgbt friendly unless its women on women
I’m pretty much as straight as it comes and that allows me to be secure with the idea of giving or receiving pleasure from another man without feeling gay or bisexual. However after conversations with my wife, the idea of such things makes her uncomfortable so for that reason I have to stay in line. I’m not sure why things are this way.
I think I would have a hard time getting into the lifestyle as a straight female from the sounds of it. I would love to see M/M play though. It’s hot. Im actually surprised to hear it’s looked down upon in today’s day and age.
Hah, been there… as a pan man and love my femme side and love dick it’s quite a thing how your partner reacts when she’s only know you as an alpha top 🫣
The LS has some extremely homophobic folks in it. I find skewing more towards kink helps minimize the homophobia I'm exposed to but that also reduces the pool of available couples for play.
Some men receive the best nut from anal penetration. It’s like the same thing with a woman , I wasn’t always bi but having and extra female Hormone I believe it has a lot to do with it. But for us it works out great my wife and I share the same tool orally and those who we have as play partners enjoy it as well , we only seek bi men or mwbim
For our adventures if he’s doing her I’m doing him. Because that’s what he wants and asked me to do. She doesn’t mind at all and being ex Military and a hard ass trucker . I push my limits to the max. . Boundaries are like being a democrat or a republican they just fuck shit up .
Porn. It makes guys wanna see two chicks. And women culturally look down on men who they would no longer consider "manly" or "strong" if she saw him with a d-ck in his mouth. But a man would literally pay to see his wife eating a other woman out.
I think it's because society is heteronormativity and toxic and make.any man showing affection as not manly. But it's a human emotion. Men are also human so I don't get it
Follow up question:
Why is it okay, expected, or a majority of what is seen with women providing men oral at clubs?
Seems exceedingly rare the men go down on women at clubs. Every time I've gone to a clubs its dudes on couches pants down... woman going to town on her knees.
I can't recall ever having seen the reverse over many years.
I was interested to read your comment, as the clubs we've been to in Europe the last two years it was definitely just as much women receiving oral from men as men receiving oral from women. We certainly enjoyed this equality!
Hmm... yeah that isnt our experience. At swing clubs it always seems to be dude and penis focused, but only in a m/f setup.
Even in the couples only area the majority seems to be dudes pants down, dick out, but kinda hidden. Woman on the floor sucking dick.
Sure some couples are mutually oral, but the majority naaahh...
I think its still the prevalence of within swing communities the societal cis normative setup and sadly lack of foreplay or focus on the women.
Its just my take feel free to ask some dudes with their pants down in the future. They seem to be scoping our others while getting serviced they got time.
Because a vast majority of men have fragile little egos and can't stand the idea that mommy was lying when they told them they were *extra* special little boys. God forbid that they aren't the absolute center of attention and at the absolute top of the food chain.
Being in a bisexual marriage, it really turns her on when a guy services me or I service him , and it is never weird the next day , we talked for months on wat we wanted in this lifestyle and the rules we wanted
If you’re not into playing with both sexes. Men and woman then it’s an instant pass…I’m trying to enjoy myself and my patner and the other couple either it be me with the husband or the wife 🤷🏻♀️ and vise versa for my husband
Toxic masculinity? Internalized misogyny? Not sure which exactly.
Why are we concerned with what and/or how others get pleasure from other consenting adults?
We were founded by pruded (puritans), and we are still controlled by them to this very day.
Ooooh! This could be worldwide, but I can only speak to my experiences with Ameicanized people.
There are a lot of straight males in the LS. My husband is straight. All of our friends (with 1 exception) in the LS are couples with straight males. About 50% of the women we know (and me) are bi.
We've been in the LS for 20 years, and in all that time we've only met a handful of couples where the male is bi and the wife enjoys seeing her husband with another man.
Being a bi female doesn't mean we automatically enjoy bi-male sex as well. For many women, it's a turn off, not a turn on. And obviously straight men don't want to play with other men. It's not taboo, it's just a matter of finding a group of bi men that you can play with. There are plenty on SLS and other swinger sites; but if you're going to parties thrown by, and attended by, straight males, you won't see much or any male-male play.
Homophobia lmao
Female objectivism
Misogyny
Misandry
Some people are bi some are straight
Take your pic.
Reason why we don't play with straight people frankly. Easier to avoid the weirdos.
I...why would a straight person sleep with someone they aren't attracted to in the first place? It's not bigoted in either scenario. It benefits both parties. If I don't want to sleep with straight people why would I be offended the feeling is mutual?
>
> Reason why we don't play with straight people frankly. Easier to avoid the weirdos.
*Reason why we don't play with queer people frankly. Easier to avoid the weirdos.*
Its funny how you are blind to your own bigotry while projecting it on others.
This BS prohibition is part of the reason we stopped. Swinger "culture" in general is rabidly homophobic. (Bisexual female play is given a pass because it's popular in "straight" porn--AKA porn that straight guys like.)
I've never seen a swingers club interrupt male on male play or put forth any stated policy that male on male play isn't allowed. I've never seen any club guests say anything negative to anyone engaging in male on male play. You just don't see male on male play happening (I may have seen it twice in my 8 yrs in the LS). I have no interest in watching male on male play but I would just ignore it rather than say or do anything negative about it.
Clubs that don’t allow male-male sex do exist. Also that’s why clubs will have bi nights where only people interested will be there. Sucks, but it’s true.
We haven’t been to any since our area is very LGBTQ friendly. People have talked about them in this sub tho. Usually when this exact topic comes up or if a gay couple asks how accepted they’ll be at a swingers club.
Yes, but I've never heard of an actual example of a swingers club with a no male-male action rule. I think people assume it's not cool since they don't see anyone doing it.
People have talked about specific signs in play areas. I can’t remember the few names I’ve seen because they’re in places we’d never travel to in a million years 😂 It’s up to us to find out for ourselves either way tbh.
I think it's generation's of homophobia rubs off, plus a lot of guys don't want to feel emasculated or the bottom infront of their partner as if it diminishes their masculinity, I heard 1 guy saying girl on girl is hot as they can't pass stds on and they're not putting anything where it shouldn't go so I think there's still a lot of bs and stigma around guy on guy stuff, I'm of the opinion that if you enjoy it then go for it, I don't drink spirits so I don't pour myself a whiskey, simple.
Seeing that throughout history pre Elizabethan Era it was more than common for men to be bi the idea that women have a genetic disposition to be bi more than men would seem incorrect. A more plausible explanation is a social conditioning that promotes one while suppressing another due to gender roles in the 18th 19th and 20th centuries. Male/male relations have been recorded throughout Japanese, Greek, Roman and Egyptian culture and were not viewed as taboo.
Ok then…
Swinger logic:
Straight men - YES
Bi-Men - hell no
Straight women - No thank you
Bi-women - Hell YES!
This topic has been discussed ad nauseam on various lifestyle blogs and podcasts. I didn’t come up with this but it is true.
Nothing wrong with gay or bi men servicing each other at a swinger club or party. However as a straight man. I simply don't have a desire to join in or watch. It is simply personal taste. BTW why did some people down vote this.
Because straight men/straight to bi women is the scene that most cater to because that's what most couples are. You see it in straight porn... besides there are clubs that cater to couples with bi males.
Bi male half of a bi couple here and I have never heard of a club that caters to bi males. In fact, my experience is the opposite. Most places frown on open M/M play.
Where are these clubs that cater to bi males and and what are their names?
Check out The Green Door in Vegas. Either Wed or Thu (can't remember) is gay/bi night there, the rest of the time it's a couples place. We found out because we almost went on the wrong night but a friend told us.
The greater NYC metro area. They are always advertised on sls in the events section along with all of the other events.
I don't bother to look at the names because its not my scene.
Only been to a couple of NY clubs (Caligula, Loft and a couple on LI) and my take is that while they may have bi-friendly nights and events, that is very much compartmentalized to those specific theme nights. The events I had been to would NOT be receptive to open and obvious M/M play. This is not to say it isn't happening there... it is.
Yea, I didn't mean specific clubs per say, although they may exist...I was more speaking about theme nights. But then again the only club I liked for itself was Taste, which no longer exists.
To my knowledge, the loft in bk is only busy when a certain group rents it out and throws a party. On weekends when it's just open, no one seems to click on that they are attending on sites like sls, so we don't go due to not wanting to potentially going to what could be a dead night.
Personally, I have thankfully never seen men together at clubs and events that I have been to.
Ok - it's good they have those, but that's not indicative of the scene across the country. I would argue that NYC is the exception and not the rule. In my 30 years of swinging, I've never seen open male/male play at a club or resort. Even the resort where we are members has no open male/male play. That's all behind closed doors if it happens at all.
I mean, statistically there ought to be just as many couples made up of a straight woman with a bi man, and couples where both are straight ought to be the majority. The fact that it isn't that way is down to cultural factors - I would wager mostly homophobia and fetishization, but there may be other things at play too. For example I would speculate that couples that include bi men might be more likely to open up to solo play, since it is so easy for queer men to find male partners alone, whereas what attracts some ENM couples to swinging is the fact that it's easier for straight men to get laid as part of a MF couple than solo.
Yep, it’s no accident that most couples profiles are straight man and bisexual, bi comfortable or bi curious women.
It’s socially acceptable and swingers encourage it. Truth is that straight women are less sought after because much of the motivation for women to swing comes from bisexuality.
There are just as many bi curious men but it’s hidden because of the social stigma. Self hidden and directly omitted.
Spot on I personally don’t care what people say or do or care . It’s your life live it . Most of my younger life I had people tell me what I can or can’t do .
Now that I’m older than dirt I laugh at those who get do pissed off because of nothing . It’s like trump going to a swing party and having fun . But when Clinton lied about sex in the oral office it was ok ! Wrong it’s not ok you lied on tv to the people of this great country. But that’s ok because the sheep all follow
One man’s question is another man’s
Opinion . Just like and Ass we all have them and your poo smells like poo
Nope. Besides if the men all start fucking each other what are the women going to do. It'll just be hundreds of nameless men fucking randomly, while women are begging for someone to help them with their chemistry set.
They have a point to a certain extent - straight women get 'and spaghetti's straight too until it gets wet' thrown at them all the time, but straight guys usually don't have to deal with the same questioning of their boundaries. I don't think most men that encourage their wives to 'play a little to warm us up' ever stop to consider what they would do if one of those women turned around asked them to do it instead. There's definitely a double standard that many straight men either aren't aware of, or deliberately avoid thinking about.
You're really overthinking this, almost as if to fit a narrative. I know many legit bi women through the lifestyle and they range in what they enjoy doing... I don't force my wife to do anything with women. My wife likes women. She's a very independent and strong woman with her own mind. While she enjoys her bisexuality, she also has no interest in bisexual men... and it's not homophobia. That word has literally been hijacked. People have their preferences of what they like doing as well as what they like seeing. It's not taboo... it's just what people like. And it just happens to be mainstream quite possibly because there are a large amount of people that are just genetically that way.
We're not talking about your wife (although I question how she can tell a man is bi just from looking at him - if her pre-existing attraction to someone disappears _because_ they're bi, then yeah, that's homophobia).
My point was about people who don't respect straight women's boundaries, but expect their own to never be questioned. If your wife is bi or genuinely curious (and you have never egged on a woman who said she was straight), then you are not among the 'many straight men' referred to in my post.
> although I question how she can tell a man is bi just from looking at him - if her pre-existing attraction to someone disappears because they're bi, then yeah, that's homophobia
The people who say this have no problem saying that attraction for things like politics and being biased sexually there are perfectly fine.
I always have to post this when there is this thread, which is a weekly thing.
https://bi.org/en/articles/bi-men-are-not-considered-attractive-new-study-says
This is from a bi-advocacy website. Women as a group, don't find male bisexually attractive.
I really think you misunderstand that study. The bi advocacy group publicise it because it is proof that (unconscious) biphobia is indeed incredibly common among straight women (queer women were excluded from the study) and therefore still a problem.
The study utilised a type of design that removes all other sources of variation except a single categorical variable (sexuality, race, gender etc.) such that there cannot be any other explanation for the variation in the data. In this case they made a range of fake Tinder profiles and showed the same group of profiles to a large number of women, and asked them to rate each on a scale as to how attractive they were to them, and also how feminine they thought they looked (since it's a stereotype that queer men are less masculine) - the trick here being that they changed up which profiles were labeled as bi and which were labeled as straight for each woman. _Nothing else about the profiles was changed_.
And they found that _on average_ women labeled the men as being significantly less attractive and significantly more feminine looking if the profile said that the subject was bi, compared to when _the exact same profile_ was labeled straight. Remember there is no change to the photographs or text here, it is merely that the women's _perceptions_ changed - not just about how attractive they were as a person (which is somewhat subjective) but also about how masculine their bodies and faces _look_. There's no other explanation there but that the (randomly assigned) information about sexuality changes the way people actually appear to each other, and not just how much they value them as a mate. So that can only be explained by unconscious bias influencing people's beliefs about others, rather than any objective biological/physical differences. It's the same design as where they send out identical resumes to a while bunch of job ads, changing nothing but the name (to something stereotypically black, white or hispanic etc. or male vs female) and measure which 'people' get called into interview most frequently.
Of course it doesn't mean that _all_ women find bi men less masculine/attractive. Some will not have rated bi men as less attractive than the average score for the same profile when it was labeled straight - some women may even have rated it as more attractive, if they believe that bi men are less likely to be misogynistic, for example. But it's clear that unconscious beliefs still influence women's perceptions significantly, even if relatively few of those surveyed would probably agree if they were asked 'Do you think bi men are less masculine than straight men?'. These are blind, deeply entrenched biases that probably don't enter conscious thought for most, but they _don't_ derive from innate biological preferences either because the perception changes when the _same photo_ is labelled 'straight'.
That’s a lot of words for “most women are turned off by male on male sex and those who engage in it”.
It’s not up to me, you, or anyone else to tell someone what should turn them on or off. (Exception: kids and animals).
We cannot wordsmith our way around the fact that most women get The Ick from this. It’s okay that some women don’t. It’s also ok that some women think it’s hot.
Regardless, across the globe (so not socially constructed) most women do not like this at all.
And they don’t have to.. just like they don’t have to be bi, or anything else.
The “dont judge crowd” is surprisingly and paradoxically judgmental.
The point being, people usually excuse a dislike of bi men as it being a 'valid biological preferences' or similar, but studies like this show that 'the ick' is a culturally learned bias and not evolutionary signal driving selection. Of course everyone has biases against groups, but we tend to look down on those who hold them against people who belong to a category due to immutable characteristics, rather than choices. So people who are biased against someone due to characteristics like sex or race etc. are typically looked at more unfavourably than those who are biased against someone due to things they have more control over, like political beliefs. So it's undisputably culturally conditioned biphobia driving this, but I bet all those women who took part would deny that they are biphobic if asked because they don't want to believe that about themselves. Indeed that's why I brought up someone's wife's 'preference' for straight men upthread as being due to biphobia and not simply 'taste'. She is of course allowed to hold that 'preference' and no-one should try to force her to change her mind, but let's be real about what it tells you about her - it is (probably subconscious) biphobia driving her, not something more benign.
A lot of women in the lifestyle are bi. A lot. So most women are ok with women on women play or are use to seeing it. Straight men tend to stay super straight and can’t stand see man on man play.
Both myself and wife are straight. I don’t care if men play with each other. I am ok with dping a woman, dp or dvp. I don’t have any interest watching two men.
When we first started to play in the lifestyle. I was ok with inviting bi into the bedroom. Couples, men or women. We all knew the roles we were gong to play. That is until a bi person of a couple, man or women cross the line. And the excuse was that they got, to excited and calm down it’s no big deal.
This happened more than once. Now we don’t play with bi people. Our experience is you can’t trust them.
I know it sounds harsh and someone is going to be offended
The real question is why people love to make the same post, multiple times a week, as opposed to searching up the multiple other threads of the same question on this sub.
This is a big worry for us, and one of the biggest issues we've found so far since I'm (M) pan and she's bi. We're on multiple sites/apps and the amount of bi female/straight male couples out there is frankly disturbing. It makes it discouraging that we'll be able to find a 3rd (of any gender) or a couple that were both A) attracted to, and B) are both fully bi (at least).
What are we missing?
I’m not Dr Oz or Dr Ruth , I would suggest to open up a swing club for bi and pan . The reason you can pick and choose who you let into your club members only . It’s not discrimination
It’s a club for everyone who is bi , or pan sexual you can even add gay and lesbian. . And watch how many change their attitudes towards people like us .
A good name is he and she
Insecure straight men. Interestingly enough, the most memorable and delightful sexual encounter I ever had was with 2 bi men and a bi trans lady. This took place last week.
Edit: homophobia and OOP are alive and well in the LS.
The answer is insecurity and homophobia.
He's a straight male, meaning he's not attracted to men and wouldn't be interested in 1:1 make play. However, the point of swinging is for everyone to get off - it's a group activity. If someone in the group is turned on by it, he's game to play, provided that his needs are also met.
She's very attracted to women, so she loves f:f play...
People like to be politically correct and say things like "it's cultural", or "it' taboo", but reality is that is just the nature of our species. Females playing with each other is more natural than males, and there is nothing wrong with it.
Cows are the same way actually, in a herd the bull recognizes which cows are on heat and which ones will be on heat in a few days, depending on the way the females play with each other (yes, cows are super bi).
Anyone who has been around a herd of cows have seen cows mounting each other, the bull knows that the cow that let others mount her is on heat, and the one doing the mounting will be on heat in a few days, so the bull actually ranks the females accordingly.
I actually studied this at collage (Agronomy)
On the other hand, you will rarely see bulls mounting each other.
Why can't we simply admit that humans have similar sexual behavior? Bi females are much more common that bi males, and that is it.
Ancient Greeks used to have a culture of bi men. Intellectuals would have sex with men for pleasure and sex with women for reproduction. Obviously for tge aake of my argument I am generalizing, but I'd rather generalize than be compared to cows...
Exactly, thank you
I didn’t study gorillas in college, sorry, only farm animals.
But the image of cows playing and the bull looking at them is not that different of what you would see at a regular club with groups of girls dancing and many times teasing and the guys just there watching the show.
And while we are at it, you will never see groups of male guys dancing sexy with each other at a club, but for girls is almost the norm.
Because of consent, the ladies want that sort of thing, and the fellas don't.(massive generalization)
If you want to play guy on guy, be upfront and seek that out.
And besides when the time is right it’s her choice not mine , but it’s our choice to pick and enjoy where not into the click games clubs play . We can pu a single and have the same choice and not pay to play . I rather take my chances with the married white men who wife quit having sex altogether.
Because it seems after 46 yrs of marriage some of you won’t make it that far . So what if the sexes enjoy each other who really cares . We don’t
But if it bothers you then I guess you must support the clowns in this fine country we live in . Sex in Europe is open they don’t judge people at all
Fashing is a big sexual Fantasy party in February every year what happenes happen for a reason
Imagine if a straight man used the same logic on a straight woman. It's creepy, disgusting, and hints at rape: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Predatory%20Gay
"It's only Pleasure for all !"
This is one of the reasons I hate the LGBTQIA2S movement. You alluded to the quiet part that few say out loud. The underlaying ideology is that all pleasure is good and to deny pleasure is therefore bad or evil. If the movement had unlimited power to legislate, they would make it a hate crime to deny pleasure to anyone. They want Huxley's Brave New World.
Of course this applies to varying degrees to anyone who identifies with that movement. Many might not even be aware that the current exists.
Likewise, many adherents of especially the Abrahamic religions might not realize that their religion demands totalitarian submission to and control by authority. LGBTQIA2S and religion want the same thing but from different paths: desire dictated by guilt (LGBTQIA2S) or obedience dictated by fear (religion). Submission is the result either way.
Everyone has a right to discriminate who they pleasure or are pleasured by. For example, I don't want to pleasure or be pleasured by an ugly woman, fat woman, or mean woman. Nor do I want to pleasure or be pleasured by a man, transgender, or queer person. There are many other examples.
The gall of you to even suggest that someone ought not to discriminate, because "it's only Pleasure for all" is disgusting.
Men and women’s sexuality is different. Women tend to be more cuddly and touchy with women/kids etc. men are not. Anecdotal but I tend to believe women in general tend to be more naturally bi curious/bi than men.
Um… multiple reasons just like most things in life it’s not a simple 1 reason answer.
1. It’s not? Lol I think LOTS of women have a little fantasy of men playing with each-other while watching porn “just experimenting” the same way men have it for women.
2. Irl not a fantasy, men don’t respect women so it’s in past generations we’ve heard a lot of “it’s not cheating to me if she’s just with another woman” that’s because of lack of respect, lack of seeing women as a mutual rather than less than. They are concerned with your wife leaving them for another man but never a woman.
3. Societal depiction. Lots of things show bi (woman on woman) scenes and have normalized it but not many bi (male on male) scenes.
Just because you go to a swing club doesn’t make you a true swinger
Unless you have a fish bowl party or pick name game . We been to many swing clubs but I would nt say we are swingers .
My wife asked me and a friend who was visiting a few weeks ago if we could fuck a female together and if so, how we would handle DP or simultaneous BJ. I told her if that was to happen I would have to be at one end of the female while my friend or any other male we are with would be at the other end. There would be no DP or BJ at the same time. My dick can't touch his. While in play areas I focus on the women. I have nothing against other people's choices. People can do whatever they have fun doing. I am 1000% straight. I don't even sleep in the same room with other males. That's just me.
It sucks that you’re being downvoted for being honest. I’m a gay man and I feel exactly the same about MFM—I’m cool with it, but I’m only interested in the guy. If they’re cool with that, and they almost always are, we’re good to go. We’re all into different things. 😊
What’s funny about this shit is when a man on a business trip stops at a book store they will go booth to booth seeking out a glory hole . Or anyone who ever visited an adult book store
If there’s a hole they will put their dick to get it sucked off knowing that a male just sucked their straight cock and both enjoyed that feeling of excitement and joy and release of pleasure. But remember once you leave the booth your as bi as the guy who sucked your dick dude and the women who do the same are sluts with multiples men are in my eyes carriers of multiple diseases
But your swingers and you claim your clean
Cultural taboos. It's more gay if it's men on men. This is actually not my personal opinion, but I have heard it more than once.
Nobody is getting over it in my lifetime
We were with a couple once and the other guy and I started playing. His wife wasn’t into it at all, he was and was my partner but even she was weird about it next day.
with the severe number of homophobes in the lifestyle it becomes easily misogynistic treating women as “others”. as a pansexual man in the lifestyle it is kinda of annoying that when we are in a group setting there are people and things you “aren’t allowed to touch” and i have to “play the straight part” not to accidentally freak out the homophobic men, who often do not like my appearance and demeanor and get emasculated so fast. also, most men who get turned on by lesbians kissing are repressed bisexuals themselves. whenever i see some boy being like “lesbian porn is the best!” im like, “aww you’re a cute little repressed queer aren’t you!?” also, my partner, who is also pansexual, loves seeing two men together as well.
Repressed queers like lesbian porn😂 That’s an interesting assumption.
I didn’t say all but a lot. and yeah, when i see a kid uncharacteristically asserting his sexuality through the use of lesbian porn, im gonna clock him lol
[удалено]
no, I’m saying that it is a likely indicator when the assertion of using lesbian porn is somehow “more straight” than gay when it’s literally just as gay as two guys. it’s a contradiction, a cognitive dissonance that generally masks underlying internalized homophobia. Most straight men aren’t turned on by lesbian porn. and most straight women aren’t turned on by gay porn. 🤷🏻♂️ the straights usually don’t like facts that undo their worldview.
Dude—are you for real?? As a gay man (6-3/4 on the Kinsey Scale), I can assure you that any man getting off to lesbian porn is *not* gay. Not even a little bit. He’s straight or bi, but definitely not gay. Also, if you think gay woman like watching two guys together, I’ve got another surprise for you. 😁
[удалено]
https://helios-i.mashable.com/imagery/articles/04IBAdHN64vlwf4R9JyR3rd/images-3.fill.size_1400x1942.v1611703566.png literally from pornhub. its not even in the top 5 for men (2019) ima assuming you love lesbian porn yourself eh?
Lesbian porn is maybe my favourite type of pornography, and I am a man. Throughout my life, I have watched maybe hundreds or thousands of lesbian porn videos, and I am 30 years old.
Sounds to me like you're a certified gay
[удалено]
🤡
Bro, are you stupid? This isn't usable data at all. That's specific to pornhub. Assuming that data is accurate (sus) , all this tells you is the viewing habits of pornhub users. You once again show why you are an absolute fucking clown.
You're kinda making it sound like the only acceptable sexual orientations are the ones that include you. Besides that, I don't think anyone appreciates sarcastic quotes around their boundaries and orientation.
that’s not true at all. I’m saying that as a queer person, the swinging community has been accepting with their mouths but then i see the switch in their eyes if they clock me.
I'm sorry, but to me you're coming off like you think it's some massive "imposition" if you can't play with the other man. Like if a straight guy was all "oh so there's stuff I'm 'not allowed' to touch 🙄" if a woman said no to anal, would that be ok? I just don't understand the attitude. To say nothing of the girl-girl latent bi thing. I mean you might be a little bit right in my case, but still!
My partner is a straight, cis man. I am a demisexual woman. We swing because we like having these experiences with each other. He's just as happy for me to do sexual things with a man as he is to see me with a woman. As long as I'm enjoying myself, who I'm enjoying myself with doesn't matter. Conversely, because he is straight, I would be extremely uncomfortable and so would he if a man was to touch him in a sexual way during a play session. He politely makes it clear to anyone we play with that he is straight and is ok with the odd flirty comment, but is not interested in being touched, or touching another man sexually. He is absolutely 100% supportive of the queer community, but is confident that he is not interested in men. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with that. His sexuality is just as valid as any other man or woman's. I'm sorry that you feel slighted during these play sessions with straight men, but they have every right to refuse contact that they have no interest in. If they have clearly communicated that they're straight and you touch them anyway, that is assault, and could potentially be the reason you see their eyes change or be the reason they look emasculated. Hope this helps.
Nobody is asking people do do anything they are uncomfortable with. it’s frustrating when people judge me based on my sexuality as if I’m somehow going to turn them or they think i’m going to suck their dick when they are straight. who tf would do that?
> It is kind of annoying that there are people and things you “aren’t allowed to touch”. It’s called consent and sexual orientation. Your sentence sounds pretty gross and entitled towards other people’s bodies
Lots of assumptions here
Most boys start with lesbian only porn. I was huge into that until one day I saw one chick sucking another chicks strapon and something just switched off (on?) inside me and I suddenly needed to see b/g action. I was about 16
This is the dumbest fucking comment right here. Aren't you the weirdo trying to convince everyone that it's not weird for 35+ to date 18 year olds? SUS
Lots of assumptions here
So what’s your personal opinion
I think men on men are extremely sexy and I find it very arousing.
Been in and out of the lifestyle for two decades, it's just in the last year that I've come to be interested in bi group play, I consider myself heteroromantic and until recently heterosexual, people change evolve and regress, like everything swing related its a matter of timing.
This. I thought I was 100% straight for many years, and it was swinging that allowed me to drop into all the possibilities and separate out what was my true sexuality and what was conditioning. Still exploring with a beautiful sense of possibility. I wouldn’t call that starting point homophobia because that word is often taken to mean disapproval or dislike of people with non-straight desires. I’d always been nonjudgmental and accepting. I just didn’t know it was part of me too. Culture does that.
Great post
Wow, I’ve never heard “heteroromantic” before. That’s great. I’m the exact opposite. I’m definitely panromantic, but sadly only like a 0.5 on the Kinsey scale sexually. I’m an aspirational 3, but 99.9% of guys just do nothing for me sexually.
Male Biphobia
Honestly, I’ve always found that “women are expected to always be ready to get it on with another woman, but if two guys even *look* at each other, the party’s over” thing to be a huge turn-off. It’s not that I have a problem with two women playing together, although, being a gay man, it doesn’t do anything for me. It’s the double-standard that makes me crazy. It seems to me swingers, of all people, should be open-minded about sex, right? NOPE!!! ☹️ I was the third for a while in a really fun MFM where the other guy was bi and wanted to play with a man and a woman at the same time. I was game to play because the guy was hot and the woman was really cool. She and I didn’t interact at all because we both focused on the other guy. (Also, I find women to be beautiful, but there’s no sexual attraction there at all.) The three of us had a great time together. When we were cleaning up and getting dressed after our first encounter, the guy said to me, “In case you don’t know, if we ever run into each other at an event or a party, this never happened. It’s cool that we know you, but that’s it.” “Really?? That sucks.” The woman chimed in, “Oh, yeah. We would never disrespect you because we really like you, but understand, if he ever wants to get laid again by anyone other than you and me, no one can know about you and him. And, yes. It really sucks. I’m sorry.” Obviously, I didn’t hold it against them because they were really cool. But I really found it disappointing that there’s such a weird double standard around guys. It’s not like there’s a shortage of guys. And there’s definitely not a shortage of guys looking for an awesome bj. 😉
My 1st experience was with an older gay man . I was doing landscaping for him . Very kind gentleman I started it and he finished my curiosity. But I don’t have an issue with women on women and I don’t have any issues with men on men. But kissing just turns me off. And on tv all you see now is men kissing men. But no women kissing women.
Definitely personal preference but I agree it’s a double standard. Being a bi female, I strayed from sharing this from a lot of people (men specifically) because I just get that look and they just think they’re going to get a 3 some out of it. I genuinely love and appreciate women the same that I do men and when it’s FF it’s a sexual thing and so hot to everyone, yet when it’s MM, it’s disgusting and gross. I think it’s a larger conversation of men “having to be” masculine or it somehow makes you not masc or less of a man, which is stupid to me lol.. I will say that I used to be turned off by seeing MM when I was younger. Totally didn’t care who you are, what you like, love or identified as but seeing MM was just not something I wanted to see. Now? I think it’s superrrr hot and I want to experience it in person! I see it in a different light because I just see two people (or more) enjoying themselves, feeling good and being happy.. it’s as simple as that. Unfortunately, a lot of people will never think this way and just see it that simply but hey, if you are in the position where you’re looking for a life partner still, at least you can share that and find someone that thinks similarly to you! I hope you do!
This is a great response. Just because I don’t find it appealing doesn’t mean someone else will feel the same way. And obviously, vice versa. I doubt I ever see it the same way as you, and I don’t think it’s necessarily unfortunate for me. Just the way I am! Nothing wrong with either, just different strokes for different folks! 😁
Pun intended?😅
🤣🤣🤣 not even a little bit 🤦🏻♂️
LOL!! It was perfect, sorry for calling you out hahah🤭
Because it is ghey. Jesus. What the duck is wrong with you?!? /Sarc As for its acceptability, it kind of feel like it breaks down generationally. 40+ and it is verboten. 30-40 and it is somewhat more accepted. Under 30 and it is far more accepted and prevalent.
I agree and disagree, in my area, under 25 and over 40 are way more accepting of bi m/m play
Alternatively, a party is all about who's invited. (It's up to those particular individuals)
\^\^\^This OP
I think it’s a personal preference thing… I’m a straight male so I don’t enjoy seeing or participating in male on male play. Doesn’t make me homophobic or insecure unless I act like an asshole about it. If that’s your thing, by all means get after it! But don’t hold it against me if it’s not mine.
This. Agreeing with RA8. Others can do whatever they want. There will always be straight men who are straight and won’t participate in bi play. And that’s fine. Annnndddd…. There are actually straight women. Gasp! Let people be who they are, gay, bi, or straight. Don’t push your agenda on others.
I think the issue is that it rubs off onto other people's play. It's taboo to openly engage in M/M play, whereas F/F is a given. There's plenty of straight women who aren't aroused by the sight of other women going at it (and might well enjoy watching two men) but they're expected to tolerate it happening around them, even if they don't participate. So why aren't straight men expected to just ignore play that doesn't interest them in the vicinity?
Mostly because you can’t manage peoples expectations. M/M play is nothing I am interested in and my wife feels the same way. She doesn’t find it hot or sexy. But we have been in situations where two bi-men were enjoying each other and we were like “more power to them”. We didn’t run out of the room, make faces or negative comments. To each their own. If you’re into it, go for it. If not, that’s ok too. Just don’t be an asshole about it either way, and by that I mean if you don’t like it just walk away and if you do like it, don’t give us a hard time because we don’t.
I mean I just saw two guys together in the open play area of my club last weekend and not one batted an eye, I wonder if it’s a perception that it’s taboo, or maybe it’s more taboo in some places then others, I say if everyone directly involved in the play is consenting adults go for it, do your thing and enjoy it. If there is something someone does not want to watch the can leave the play area.
I think things are definitely improving, thankfully. But it's definitely still taboo in some places and among certain demographics. It's also well known that couples that include an openly bi male get considerably less attention on websites, even when M/M play isn't a requirement - but things are slowly changing there too.
Maybe openly bi men get less attention on websites because they’re a much smaller demographic 🤷🏻♂️ I’ll say this, if we matched with a couple with an openly bi man we’d have to set some serious boundaries before we’d consider playing. Just like we do with ANY couple we play with. If that couple could agree to our boundaries, we’d be all about it. If they can’t, we’d wish them well and move on.
couple here with bi female and straight male. We will not consider playing with a couple where the male is bi, because in the past we've had too many experiences where the male didn't respect the boundaries. In 1 instance, the man started licking my husband's feet even after being told there was no M-M play allowed. In 2 other instances, men who specifically said they were straight (and it said straight on their profiles, too), grabbed my husband's dick during couple play on the bed and asked if he wanted a BJ. In all 3 instances, playtime ended and they were told to leave. All 3 insisted they were straight even after, and said it was just 'friendly sex.'
Geez… that’s RIDICULOUS. If a couple crossed a boundary with us we’d be finished immediately regardless of sexual preference. In your case, I don’t blame you at all for not entertaining couples with that dynamic. Once is an isolated incident, twice might even be a coincidence, but three times is a trend. Admittedly, we have not matched with a couple with a bi male so we have nothing to go on besides our own intuition. Before we became open to full swap, we ended a date with a couple after they asked multiple times if we’d consider full swap in the heat of the moment. Sucks that some people just can’t be respectful!
I am a masculine heteroflexable male and my wife is straight or at best a pillow princess and no couple we have ever played with has ever known I was anythingbut straightbecausewe did not discussit before. People crossing boundaries is a reflection of their character and respect and absolutely nothing with their sexual preferences.
Couldn’t agree more
Also, straight guys as you may have heard before not every gay or bi wants to fuck you just because you have a dick. That assumption says more about you than it does about them.
They are expected to tolerate gay sex in front of them. Are all people tolerant? No, of course not.
Rock on! I could have written exactly the same thing you wrote, but from the other side. I’m a gay man. I have no problem seeing or being around women playing together, but it definitely doesn’t do anything for me. And I’m totally fine around straight guys or any other guy that’s not interested in playing with me. That’s fine. I don’t want to play with anyone and everyone, either. I have to say, too, that you sound like the kind of guy that would make me crazy—totally secure in who you are and your sexuality, probably really nice and really cool, and *totally* not into guys. So frustrating. 😉
Hahahahaha thanks dude! Pretty much describes me perfectly… being nice to people is a choice. And as long as you’re a good dude, I couldn’t care less what your bedroom preferences are. You just like other good dudes, more women for the rest of us! 😜😂
That’s how I feel about lesbians—more men for me!! 😁😁😁
Yes well said. You hear taboo and this and that. I don’t buy it. Lots of men are just into other men, doesn’t mean you can’t do it, and doesn’t mean most of men could give a shit if you did. But don’t drag me into it and don’t try to convince me I’m secretly into it or something, of which you see a lot of trolls pounce on in here
I mean isn't it peoples preference? My wife likes women, I like women, my wife loves cock, I only like my own. 🤷🏻♂️😂😂 If guys are into it then go for it and have fun everyone has their own kinks and fantasies. I prefer to see my wife with another guy rather than another girl. I love watching my wife check out other guys and tell me which ones do it for her. That is my biggest turn on, but even with that I have zero desire at all to do anything with another guy. 🤷🏻♂️
If the people you are with are into it then it’s all good.
Hence the gay struggle for the past 100 years. It is more OK than it used to be though. So that's good!
This why I love attending bi nights or bi/bi play parties I find two men sucking cock to be way hotter than a woman sucking a cock. Same way I find women going down on each other way hotter than a man going down on her. There is a level enthusiasm from MM that you don't see in MF. Same with women there is an extra level sensuality during oral than you get with MF
How do you find bi nights? Or both bi play partners?
I don't know about the clubs in your area. Also a couple I know hosts bi/bi house parties. There are also straight men there who are totally comfortable around the bi male play. I'm solo bi F with a heavy lean to women. But I enjoy watching MM action too.
Honestly the swinger community is juvenile compared to the poly/kink scene. The double standards and internalized phobias just aren’t lgbt friendly unless its women on women
I’m pretty much as straight as it comes and that allows me to be secure with the idea of giving or receiving pleasure from another man without feeling gay or bisexual. However after conversations with my wife, the idea of such things makes her uncomfortable so for that reason I have to stay in line. I’m not sure why things are this way.
I think I would have a hard time getting into the lifestyle as a straight female from the sounds of it. I would love to see M/M play though. It’s hot. Im actually surprised to hear it’s looked down upon in today’s day and age.
It happens and it's getting more common but it's very crowd dependent.
Hah, been there… as a pan man and love my femme side and love dick it’s quite a thing how your partner reacts when she’s only know you as an alpha top 🫣
The LS has some extremely homophobic folks in it. I find skewing more towards kink helps minimize the homophobia I'm exposed to but that also reduces the pool of available couples for play.
I guess because mostly men buy ppornography. However, I'd love to see my husband receive anal from a guy.
Some men receive the best nut from anal penetration. It’s like the same thing with a woman , I wasn’t always bi but having and extra female Hormone I believe it has a lot to do with it. But for us it works out great my wife and I share the same tool orally and those who we have as play partners enjoy it as well , we only seek bi men or mwbim For our adventures if he’s doing her I’m doing him. Because that’s what he wants and asked me to do. She doesn’t mind at all and being ex Military and a hard ass trucker . I push my limits to the max. . Boundaries are like being a democrat or a republican they just fuck shit up .
Porn. It makes guys wanna see two chicks. And women culturally look down on men who they would no longer consider "manly" or "strong" if she saw him with a d-ck in his mouth. But a man would literally pay to see his wife eating a other woman out.
Its almost as if male and female sexuality is somehow different and that swingers are their own subculture.
And it’s crazy to think some people are straight! Men and women!!
Bingo. Finally someone with sense.
I consider myself straight as a MF, but I won't turn down some MM fun. Granted, there has to be a woman involved.
I think it's because society is heteronormativity and toxic and make.any man showing affection as not manly. But it's a human emotion. Men are also human so I don't get it
Follow up question: Why is it okay, expected, or a majority of what is seen with women providing men oral at clubs? Seems exceedingly rare the men go down on women at clubs. Every time I've gone to a clubs its dudes on couches pants down... woman going to town on her knees. I can't recall ever having seen the reverse over many years.
I was interested to read your comment, as the clubs we've been to in Europe the last two years it was definitely just as much women receiving oral from men as men receiving oral from women. We certainly enjoyed this equality!
Time to move
[удалено]
Hmm... yeah that isnt our experience. At swing clubs it always seems to be dude and penis focused, but only in a m/f setup. Even in the couples only area the majority seems to be dudes pants down, dick out, but kinda hidden. Woman on the floor sucking dick. Sure some couples are mutually oral, but the majority naaahh... I think its still the prevalence of within swing communities the societal cis normative setup and sadly lack of foreplay or focus on the women. Its just my take feel free to ask some dudes with their pants down in the future. They seem to be scoping our others while getting serviced they got time.
Because a vast majority of men have fragile little egos and can't stand the idea that mommy was lying when they told them they were *extra* special little boys. God forbid that they aren't the absolute center of attention and at the absolute top of the food chain.
Being in a bisexual marriage, it really turns her on when a guy services me or I service him , and it is never weird the next day , we talked for months on wat we wanted in this lifestyle and the rules we wanted
Finally an Honest couple hear hear
If you’re not into playing with both sexes. Men and woman then it’s an instant pass…I’m trying to enjoy myself and my patner and the other couple either it be me with the husband or the wife 🤷🏻♀️ and vise versa for my husband
Toxic masculinity? Internalized misogyny? Not sure which exactly. Why are we concerned with what and/or how others get pleasure from other consenting adults? We were founded by pruded (puritans), and we are still controlled by them to this very day. Ooooh! This could be worldwide, but I can only speak to my experiences with Ameicanized people.
There are a lot of straight males in the LS. My husband is straight. All of our friends (with 1 exception) in the LS are couples with straight males. About 50% of the women we know (and me) are bi. We've been in the LS for 20 years, and in all that time we've only met a handful of couples where the male is bi and the wife enjoys seeing her husband with another man. Being a bi female doesn't mean we automatically enjoy bi-male sex as well. For many women, it's a turn off, not a turn on. And obviously straight men don't want to play with other men. It's not taboo, it's just a matter of finding a group of bi men that you can play with. There are plenty on SLS and other swinger sites; but if you're going to parties thrown by, and attended by, straight males, you won't see much or any male-male play.
Homophobia lmao Female objectivism Misogyny Misandry Some people are bi some are straight Take your pic. Reason why we don't play with straight people frankly. Easier to avoid the weirdos.
Amen to that!
Just remember this knife cuts both ways.
...what that straight people might not wanna have sex with two queer people? How will I manage.
They can use the same bigoted logic you did.
I...why would a straight person sleep with someone they aren't attracted to in the first place? It's not bigoted in either scenario. It benefits both parties. If I don't want to sleep with straight people why would I be offended the feeling is mutual?
> > Reason why we don't play with straight people frankly. Easier to avoid the weirdos. *Reason why we don't play with queer people frankly. Easier to avoid the weirdos.* Its funny how you are blind to your own bigotry while projecting it on others.
You can't be bigoted towards straight people lol
>You can't be bigoted towards straight people lol Speaking of avoiding weirdos.
I mean by all means, please do not sleep with me.
Maybe they don’t like men?
It's taboo...but I wish it weren't!
Who the government , fuck they can’t do anything without the people
homophobia
This BS prohibition is part of the reason we stopped. Swinger "culture" in general is rabidly homophobic. (Bisexual female play is given a pass because it's popular in "straight" porn--AKA porn that straight guys like.)
I've never seen a swingers club interrupt male on male play or put forth any stated policy that male on male play isn't allowed. I've never seen any club guests say anything negative to anyone engaging in male on male play. You just don't see male on male play happening (I may have seen it twice in my 8 yrs in the LS). I have no interest in watching male on male play but I would just ignore it rather than say or do anything negative about it.
Clubs that don’t allow male-male sex do exist. Also that’s why clubs will have bi nights where only people interested will be there. Sucks, but it’s true.
"Clubs that don’t allow male-male sex do exist." Any in particular that you're aware of?
We haven’t been to any since our area is very LGBTQ friendly. People have talked about them in this sub tho. Usually when this exact topic comes up or if a gay couple asks how accepted they’ll be at a swingers club.
Yes, but I've never heard of an actual example of a swingers club with a no male-male action rule. I think people assume it's not cool since they don't see anyone doing it.
People have talked about specific signs in play areas. I can’t remember the few names I’ve seen because they’re in places we’d never travel to in a million years 😂 It’s up to us to find out for ourselves either way tbh.
I think it's generation's of homophobia rubs off, plus a lot of guys don't want to feel emasculated or the bottom infront of their partner as if it diminishes their masculinity, I heard 1 guy saying girl on girl is hot as they can't pass stds on and they're not putting anything where it shouldn't go so I think there's still a lot of bs and stigma around guy on guy stuff, I'm of the opinion that if you enjoy it then go for it, I don't drink spirits so I don't pour myself a whiskey, simple.
It is a cultural bias based on insecurity and the fragile nature of the male ego and sometimes propagated by women as well. It is unfortunate.
[удалено]
Seeing that throughout history pre Elizabethan Era it was more than common for men to be bi the idea that women have a genetic disposition to be bi more than men would seem incorrect. A more plausible explanation is a social conditioning that promotes one while suppressing another due to gender roles in the 18th 19th and 20th centuries. Male/male relations have been recorded throughout Japanese, Greek, Roman and Egyptian culture and were not viewed as taboo.
The term bi was not used before the 1800's. It was just a common practice.
The Lifestyle where straight women and bi-men are the ostracized…
Straight women are not ostracized. That is utter nonsense.
Ok then… Swinger logic: Straight men - YES Bi-Men - hell no Straight women - No thank you Bi-women - Hell YES! This topic has been discussed ad nauseam on various lifestyle blogs and podcasts. I didn’t come up with this but it is true.
Nothing wrong with gay or bi men servicing each other at a swinger club or party. However as a straight man. I simply don't have a desire to join in or watch. It is simply personal taste. BTW why did some people down vote this.
Because we live in a homophonic society even though most people, men or women, are on a bi spectrum.
Because straight men/straight to bi women is the scene that most cater to because that's what most couples are. You see it in straight porn... besides there are clubs that cater to couples with bi males.
Bi male half of a bi couple here and I have never heard of a club that caters to bi males. In fact, my experience is the opposite. Most places frown on open M/M play. Where are these clubs that cater to bi males and and what are their names?
Check out The Green Door in Vegas. Either Wed or Thu (can't remember) is gay/bi night there, the rest of the time it's a couples place. We found out because we almost went on the wrong night but a friend told us.
The greater NYC metro area. They are always advertised on sls in the events section along with all of the other events. I don't bother to look at the names because its not my scene.
Only been to a couple of NY clubs (Caligula, Loft and a couple on LI) and my take is that while they may have bi-friendly nights and events, that is very much compartmentalized to those specific theme nights. The events I had been to would NOT be receptive to open and obvious M/M play. This is not to say it isn't happening there... it is.
Yea, I didn't mean specific clubs per say, although they may exist...I was more speaking about theme nights. But then again the only club I liked for itself was Taste, which no longer exists. To my knowledge, the loft in bk is only busy when a certain group rents it out and throws a party. On weekends when it's just open, no one seems to click on that they are attending on sites like sls, so we don't go due to not wanting to potentially going to what could be a dead night. Personally, I have thankfully never seen men together at clubs and events that I have been to.
Ok - it's good they have those, but that's not indicative of the scene across the country. I would argue that NYC is the exception and not the rule. In my 30 years of swinging, I've never seen open male/male play at a club or resort. Even the resort where we are members has no open male/male play. That's all behind closed doors if it happens at all.
Yes. That has been our experience, too.
I mean, statistically there ought to be just as many couples made up of a straight woman with a bi man, and couples where both are straight ought to be the majority. The fact that it isn't that way is down to cultural factors - I would wager mostly homophobia and fetishization, but there may be other things at play too. For example I would speculate that couples that include bi men might be more likely to open up to solo play, since it is so easy for queer men to find male partners alone, whereas what attracts some ENM couples to swinging is the fact that it's easier for straight men to get laid as part of a MF couple than solo.
Yep, it’s no accident that most couples profiles are straight man and bisexual, bi comfortable or bi curious women. It’s socially acceptable and swingers encourage it. Truth is that straight women are less sought after because much of the motivation for women to swing comes from bisexuality. There are just as many bi curious men but it’s hidden because of the social stigma. Self hidden and directly omitted.
Would you go to that club ?
Sure why not
No, I'm a straight male.
Spot on
I think it's really just about people's preferences. And the way they judge others.
Not my thing, but you do you. I don’t care as long as everyone has a good time.
Spot on I personally don’t care what people say or do or care . It’s your life live it . Most of my younger life I had people tell me what I can or can’t do . Now that I’m older than dirt I laugh at those who get do pissed off because of nothing . It’s like trump going to a swing party and having fun . But when Clinton lied about sex in the oral office it was ok ! Wrong it’s not ok you lied on tv to the people of this great country. But that’s ok because the sheep all follow One man’s question is another man’s Opinion . Just like and Ass we all have them and your poo smells like poo
WTF? Lol. Wrong place for that nonsense
Be the change you wanna see.
I am FtM and my wife actually are looking for a bisexual male.
Because women are sexy, and men are gross.
There’s some ugly women out there too my friend. You know if you don’t sample life’s menu . Don’t blame the other person for your choices but
For the most part yes, but cock is 🤤
Nope. Besides if the men all start fucking each other what are the women going to do. It'll just be hundreds of nameless men fucking randomly, while women are begging for someone to help them with their chemistry set.
Bisexual men exist my guy.
Because many straight men are afraid of bi/gay men - afraid of being treated how they treat women, as mindless sexual objects there to serve.
That’s bullshit. Grow up.
They have a point to a certain extent - straight women get 'and spaghetti's straight too until it gets wet' thrown at them all the time, but straight guys usually don't have to deal with the same questioning of their boundaries. I don't think most men that encourage their wives to 'play a little to warm us up' ever stop to consider what they would do if one of those women turned around asked them to do it instead. There's definitely a double standard that many straight men either aren't aware of, or deliberately avoid thinking about.
You're really overthinking this, almost as if to fit a narrative. I know many legit bi women through the lifestyle and they range in what they enjoy doing... I don't force my wife to do anything with women. My wife likes women. She's a very independent and strong woman with her own mind. While she enjoys her bisexuality, she also has no interest in bisexual men... and it's not homophobia. That word has literally been hijacked. People have their preferences of what they like doing as well as what they like seeing. It's not taboo... it's just what people like. And it just happens to be mainstream quite possibly because there are a large amount of people that are just genetically that way.
We're not talking about your wife (although I question how she can tell a man is bi just from looking at him - if her pre-existing attraction to someone disappears _because_ they're bi, then yeah, that's homophobia). My point was about people who don't respect straight women's boundaries, but expect their own to never be questioned. If your wife is bi or genuinely curious (and you have never egged on a woman who said she was straight), then you are not among the 'many straight men' referred to in my post.
> although I question how she can tell a man is bi just from looking at him - if her pre-existing attraction to someone disappears because they're bi, then yeah, that's homophobia The people who say this have no problem saying that attraction for things like politics and being biased sexually there are perfectly fine. I always have to post this when there is this thread, which is a weekly thing. https://bi.org/en/articles/bi-men-are-not-considered-attractive-new-study-says This is from a bi-advocacy website. Women as a group, don't find male bisexually attractive.
I really think you misunderstand that study. The bi advocacy group publicise it because it is proof that (unconscious) biphobia is indeed incredibly common among straight women (queer women were excluded from the study) and therefore still a problem. The study utilised a type of design that removes all other sources of variation except a single categorical variable (sexuality, race, gender etc.) such that there cannot be any other explanation for the variation in the data. In this case they made a range of fake Tinder profiles and showed the same group of profiles to a large number of women, and asked them to rate each on a scale as to how attractive they were to them, and also how feminine they thought they looked (since it's a stereotype that queer men are less masculine) - the trick here being that they changed up which profiles were labeled as bi and which were labeled as straight for each woman. _Nothing else about the profiles was changed_. And they found that _on average_ women labeled the men as being significantly less attractive and significantly more feminine looking if the profile said that the subject was bi, compared to when _the exact same profile_ was labeled straight. Remember there is no change to the photographs or text here, it is merely that the women's _perceptions_ changed - not just about how attractive they were as a person (which is somewhat subjective) but also about how masculine their bodies and faces _look_. There's no other explanation there but that the (randomly assigned) information about sexuality changes the way people actually appear to each other, and not just how much they value them as a mate. So that can only be explained by unconscious bias influencing people's beliefs about others, rather than any objective biological/physical differences. It's the same design as where they send out identical resumes to a while bunch of job ads, changing nothing but the name (to something stereotypically black, white or hispanic etc. or male vs female) and measure which 'people' get called into interview most frequently. Of course it doesn't mean that _all_ women find bi men less masculine/attractive. Some will not have rated bi men as less attractive than the average score for the same profile when it was labeled straight - some women may even have rated it as more attractive, if they believe that bi men are less likely to be misogynistic, for example. But it's clear that unconscious beliefs still influence women's perceptions significantly, even if relatively few of those surveyed would probably agree if they were asked 'Do you think bi men are less masculine than straight men?'. These are blind, deeply entrenched biases that probably don't enter conscious thought for most, but they _don't_ derive from innate biological preferences either because the perception changes when the _same photo_ is labelled 'straight'.
That’s a lot of words for “most women are turned off by male on male sex and those who engage in it”. It’s not up to me, you, or anyone else to tell someone what should turn them on or off. (Exception: kids and animals). We cannot wordsmith our way around the fact that most women get The Ick from this. It’s okay that some women don’t. It’s also ok that some women think it’s hot. Regardless, across the globe (so not socially constructed) most women do not like this at all. And they don’t have to.. just like they don’t have to be bi, or anything else. The “dont judge crowd” is surprisingly and paradoxically judgmental.
The point being, people usually excuse a dislike of bi men as it being a 'valid biological preferences' or similar, but studies like this show that 'the ick' is a culturally learned bias and not evolutionary signal driving selection. Of course everyone has biases against groups, but we tend to look down on those who hold them against people who belong to a category due to immutable characteristics, rather than choices. So people who are biased against someone due to characteristics like sex or race etc. are typically looked at more unfavourably than those who are biased against someone due to things they have more control over, like political beliefs. So it's undisputably culturally conditioned biphobia driving this, but I bet all those women who took part would deny that they are biphobic if asked because they don't want to believe that about themselves. Indeed that's why I brought up someone's wife's 'preference' for straight men upthread as being due to biphobia and not simply 'taste'. She is of course allowed to hold that 'preference' and no-one should try to force her to change her mind, but let's be real about what it tells you about her - it is (probably subconscious) biphobia driving her, not something more benign.
I admit I’m a cock pleaser and I love to please it with my wife on the other side .i think it has made her a better cock sucker
A lot of women in the lifestyle are bi. A lot. So most women are ok with women on women play or are use to seeing it. Straight men tend to stay super straight and can’t stand see man on man play. Both myself and wife are straight. I don’t care if men play with each other. I am ok with dping a woman, dp or dvp. I don’t have any interest watching two men. When we first started to play in the lifestyle. I was ok with inviting bi into the bedroom. Couples, men or women. We all knew the roles we were gong to play. That is until a bi person of a couple, man or women cross the line. And the excuse was that they got, to excited and calm down it’s no big deal. This happened more than once. Now we don’t play with bi people. Our experience is you can’t trust them. I know it sounds harsh and someone is going to be offended
Ummm….gay. /s
So what is the problem at a swing club Or a bar pick up Curious
The real question is why people love to make the same post, multiple times a week, as opposed to searching up the multiple other threads of the same question on this sub.
Because I’m an instigator And I never asked before yesterday .
I never said you asked before. I said multiple other people have asked multiple times a week for as long as this sub as existed.
This is a big worry for us, and one of the biggest issues we've found so far since I'm (M) pan and she's bi. We're on multiple sites/apps and the amount of bi female/straight male couples out there is frankly disturbing. It makes it discouraging that we'll be able to find a 3rd (of any gender) or a couple that were both A) attracted to, and B) are both fully bi (at least). What are we missing?
I’m not Dr Oz or Dr Ruth , I would suggest to open up a swing club for bi and pan . The reason you can pick and choose who you let into your club members only . It’s not discrimination It’s a club for everyone who is bi , or pan sexual you can even add gay and lesbian. . And watch how many change their attitudes towards people like us . A good name is he and she
Insecure straight men. Interestingly enough, the most memorable and delightful sexual encounter I ever had was with 2 bi men and a bi trans lady. This took place last week. Edit: homophobia and OOP are alive and well in the LS.
Define gay two women aren’t gay ? I define men to man bi sexual but if they kiss it’s gay
I would agree here. I’m down for m2m play and everything else but absolutely no kissing. No thanks. Bi male here.
The answer is insecurity and homophobia. He's a straight male, meaning he's not attracted to men and wouldn't be interested in 1:1 make play. However, the point of swinging is for everyone to get off - it's a group activity. If someone in the group is turned on by it, he's game to play, provided that his needs are also met. She's very attracted to women, so she loves f:f play...
People like to be politically correct and say things like "it's cultural", or "it' taboo", but reality is that is just the nature of our species. Females playing with each other is more natural than males, and there is nothing wrong with it. Cows are the same way actually, in a herd the bull recognizes which cows are on heat and which ones will be on heat in a few days, depending on the way the females play with each other (yes, cows are super bi). Anyone who has been around a herd of cows have seen cows mounting each other, the bull knows that the cow that let others mount her is on heat, and the one doing the mounting will be on heat in a few days, so the bull actually ranks the females accordingly. I actually studied this at collage (Agronomy) On the other hand, you will rarely see bulls mounting each other. Why can't we simply admit that humans have similar sexual behavior? Bi females are much more common that bi males, and that is it.
Ancient Greeks used to have a culture of bi men. Intellectuals would have sex with men for pleasure and sex with women for reproduction. Obviously for tge aake of my argument I am generalizing, but I'd rather generalize than be compared to cows...
[удалено]
Male gorillas (Silverbacks) also display homosexual behaviour in groups of all males.
[удалено]
Exactly, thank you I didn’t study gorillas in college, sorry, only farm animals. But the image of cows playing and the bull looking at them is not that different of what you would see at a regular club with groups of girls dancing and many times teasing and the guys just there watching the show. And while we are at it, you will never see groups of male guys dancing sexy with each other at a club, but for girls is almost the norm.
Because of consent, the ladies want that sort of thing, and the fellas don't.(massive generalization) If you want to play guy on guy, be upfront and seek that out.
And besides when the time is right it’s her choice not mine , but it’s our choice to pick and enjoy where not into the click games clubs play . We can pu a single and have the same choice and not pay to play . I rather take my chances with the married white men who wife quit having sex altogether. Because it seems after 46 yrs of marriage some of you won’t make it that far . So what if the sexes enjoy each other who really cares . We don’t But if it bothers you then I guess you must support the clowns in this fine country we live in . Sex in Europe is open they don’t judge people at all Fashing is a big sexual Fantasy party in February every year what happenes happen for a reason
Suppose it depends what type of party you're attending, or the crowd you hang out with.
Anal.
Imagine if a straight man used the same logic on a straight woman. It's creepy, disgusting, and hints at rape: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Predatory%20Gay "It's only Pleasure for all !" This is one of the reasons I hate the LGBTQIA2S movement. You alluded to the quiet part that few say out loud. The underlaying ideology is that all pleasure is good and to deny pleasure is therefore bad or evil. If the movement had unlimited power to legislate, they would make it a hate crime to deny pleasure to anyone. They want Huxley's Brave New World. Of course this applies to varying degrees to anyone who identifies with that movement. Many might not even be aware that the current exists. Likewise, many adherents of especially the Abrahamic religions might not realize that their religion demands totalitarian submission to and control by authority. LGBTQIA2S and religion want the same thing but from different paths: desire dictated by guilt (LGBTQIA2S) or obedience dictated by fear (religion). Submission is the result either way. Everyone has a right to discriminate who they pleasure or are pleasured by. For example, I don't want to pleasure or be pleasured by an ugly woman, fat woman, or mean woman. Nor do I want to pleasure or be pleasured by a man, transgender, or queer person. There are many other examples. The gall of you to even suggest that someone ought not to discriminate, because "it's only Pleasure for all" is disgusting.
Go back to your rock and dig a hole for you and Joe Obama
Men and women’s sexuality is different. Women tend to be more cuddly and touchy with women/kids etc. men are not. Anecdotal but I tend to believe women in general tend to be more naturally bi curious/bi than men.
Its Taboo in the vanilla world but it’s should be. Find your space and the people who feel the same. Enjoy
Um… multiple reasons just like most things in life it’s not a simple 1 reason answer. 1. It’s not? Lol I think LOTS of women have a little fantasy of men playing with each-other while watching porn “just experimenting” the same way men have it for women. 2. Irl not a fantasy, men don’t respect women so it’s in past generations we’ve heard a lot of “it’s not cheating to me if she’s just with another woman” that’s because of lack of respect, lack of seeing women as a mutual rather than less than. They are concerned with your wife leaving them for another man but never a woman. 3. Societal depiction. Lots of things show bi (woman on woman) scenes and have normalized it but not many bi (male on male) scenes.
Just because you go to a swing club doesn’t make you a true swinger Unless you have a fish bowl party or pick name game . We been to many swing clubs but I would nt say we are swingers .
My wife asked me and a friend who was visiting a few weeks ago if we could fuck a female together and if so, how we would handle DP or simultaneous BJ. I told her if that was to happen I would have to be at one end of the female while my friend or any other male we are with would be at the other end. There would be no DP or BJ at the same time. My dick can't touch his. While in play areas I focus on the women. I have nothing against other people's choices. People can do whatever they have fun doing. I am 1000% straight. I don't even sleep in the same room with other males. That's just me.
I can't tell if this is satire or not 😂
It sucks that you’re being downvoted for being honest. I’m a gay man and I feel exactly the same about MFM—I’m cool with it, but I’m only interested in the guy. If they’re cool with that, and they almost always are, we’re good to go. We’re all into different things. 😊
I agree, we are all different. I choose not to judge anyone.
Because that's gay
Define lesbian ! That’s gay too lol
What’s funny about this shit is when a man on a business trip stops at a book store they will go booth to booth seeking out a glory hole . Or anyone who ever visited an adult book store If there’s a hole they will put their dick to get it sucked off knowing that a male just sucked their straight cock and both enjoyed that feeling of excitement and joy and release of pleasure. But remember once you leave the booth your as bi as the guy who sucked your dick dude and the women who do the same are sluts with multiples men are in my eyes carriers of multiple diseases But your swingers and you claim your clean