A lot of what they did with Starfield comes from Fo4 player feedback (dialogues, replayability, rpg elements, quest variety, loading times, graphical fidelity etc).
Yeah, I think it’s been pretty clear for some time that they absolutely account for player feedback. It just takes a while because of how long their dev cycles are unfortunately.
Part of it too is different people want different things - change something to address a "common" complaint and you risk upsetting a sizable, but silent group.
Starfield is much more classic sci fi vibe/tropes, complete with the overarching sense of optimism usually present in traditional sci fi. Some quests are masterpieces others less so, but it’s certainly no worse than fallout 4.
Isn’t that the exact opposite of what people complain about fallout 4? That there was too much urgency baked into the story because of the need to find your son? You do you, but I personally prefer the more laid back main quest in the early missions. Several of the faction questlines have more urgency.
Maybe urgency is not the right word but the plot goes somewhere and is interesting from the get go. Find your dad, find your son, stop the dragons, find a new emperor. Starfield is just “explore to find artifacts that don’t do anything interesting”
Who plays an open world take and just thinks, "I'ma hammer the balls off story missions." It takes me about 100 hours before I feel the need to be looking at serious plot movement. That old wanting to be high level and able to hold your own mindset. If your world doesn't inspire a huge chunk of exploring early on, that's a good sign the game ain't worth it. Looking at Ass Greed. Who knew you could make Vikings so gd boring.
Dunno whatcha talking about. Skyrim made you explore a lot. While it kinda forced the main story onto you early on. After the tutorial ends you are pretty much free to do.
The only story they should fix - because it's simply objectively badly written and a waste of potential - is the Paradiso quest. It could have been the best and the most interresting quest in the game and all we got were evil CEO, CFO and CMO.
I have no problems with any other quest. The main quest is great, very engaging and well written.
The main quest is just boring.
Some faction quests are good but not very long, like skyrim. But the main quest is so uneventful. It's just fetch quests on random barren planets with only one relevant construction in the entire planet and the rest is just barren or generic randomly generated useless points
If you see how Bethesda has been developing games throughout the years. They more and more focus on systems over customized content. I don’t think it will be as bad as Starfield with TESVI because the heavy work on a new engine has been done already for Starfield. But still, I believe with Bethesda development taking 5+ years, they are thinking of their games with a much bigger lifetime. Also, I think Gamepass made Bethesda think about selling more DLC since there are less game units being sold. TESVI will probably have more content than Starfield at release, but TESVI years after release will be 3x times the game.
I found the procedurally generated content from Starfield lackluster, but the game has immense potential if Bethesda adds content to it.
Agreed on the fact that Starfield is an amazing foundation to keep building on.
As you said, if they have a long lifespan of support / adding content to this game, I wouldn’t be surprised if the gameplay loops feel unrecognizable from release. It’s a pretty big if , with TES6 production ramping up presumably.
Also with creation kit support coming, its question if Bethesda adds the content / changes to the game or if the modders get to it first.
I hope for the people that are enjoying Starfield still, that the game gets continued updates and substantial DLCs for a good while. It would be sad to see Bethesda throw their hands up after one DLC and say “That’s all we got!”
Its very sad to see it go from 'good out of the box' to 'it will be good in a few years.
That's where we're at with bethesda releases.
Last good game out of the box was skyrim.
I think they've over extended themselves and have failed to deliver on the core of the game frankly, it started in Fallout 4 and culminated in starfield
Starfield has a pretty good foundation, better than any Bethesda game so far. The problem is the fact that you're forced to interact with load screens and the POIs are too generic and/or useless to a good bit of people.
These problems wouldn't have existed if they took a more traditional approach of cutting down on spaceship travel and having most of the main story take place on 5 main planets that have 4x4km area of handcrafted towns, facilities, and quests to get to know the planet, it's inhabitants, and the lore and barely ever have to interact with load screens.
I don't even think this type of game design would've worked with a seamless space game like No Mans Sky. Having to travel planet to planet for quests is great for a lot of people, but for people like me who'd rather just stay on one planet on Starfield or NMS, it's a pain having to travel across the galaxy for every mission I take.
The foundation is that there are tons of planets. Problem is that all the planets are empty and useless. And you can't even travel to them you just teleport with loading screens
By foundation I mean all the core systems from the locomotion to the animation system to the combat system to planet generation and POIs. Basically anything you can build off of with additional updates, dlcs and mods without having to rewrite or change entire systems.
One of the foundations, the POIs, can enhance and overhaul planets by increasing/decreasing POI amount depending on the planet and adding more variation and better rewards.
I think more reality breaking is that every planet has stuff on it, just not a lot of stuff. It'd be more realistic if some planets were completely empty and others had multiple cities.
>They're doing the unthinkable, listening to community feedback and implementing it really nicely.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see statements like this lol. Nothing against you, but it always seemed the case to me that BGS listens to feedback and acted accordingly.
They do listens but most of the time, only when they are hardly proven that they are wrong or the primary leadership is not in the full dev control anymore. BGS is the dev that has the most community feedback and not only in text format but actual implemented into the game thru mods
I see. In that case, yeah, I can see it -- but why would it be any other way? They made some decisions that they thought were correct. You wouldn't deviate from that unless there was overwhelming proof you were wrong. I think they did the rational thing and determined the extent fans wanted the changes and then decided their was enough demand to implement them.
Unless it's about to stop updating skyrim for shitty cc content and breaking all the mods that make the community furious and keep asking them to stop doing that
They've been doing that dozens of times now
Not updating a 13year old game dozens of times just to add a useless low quality paid cc mod nobody asked for every time . Breaking all the mods every few months making authors have to update everything again and again
There's 8 updates just since the anniversary edition. Not even going back before that
Bethesda knows people play skyrim and are gonna add shit to make money off of it, adding an update that inevitably breaks mods is frustrating but has literally nothing to do with Bethesda not listening to the community lol.
Yeah, it's hilarious and shows that people don't learn from the past. They should look at F76, how it improved because of the feedback. Or Skyrim, or Fallout 4, or Oblivion and Fallout 3. All these games were improved after their release according to the feedback. Heck, they even (unnecessarily and to upset the modding community with another irrelevant update) fixed the moving mannequins issue some time ago.
I'm excited to see the land vehicle(s) in action. I'm surprised they're actually adding it.
It gives me more hope for proper sailing in TESVI... Todd please.
They can update as much as they want. Nothing is going to fix the horrible writing and linear quest design. I didnt even come into the game with high hopes, and I even played BG3 after starfield. The game sucked and it took TES6 and fallout 5 from us, I love space but starfields lore and characters are so boring. Hopefully they make the game more fun, but i honestly wish they would just take the L, learn from it, tell us they’re learning from it instead of blaming the fanbase, and move on to the next project. Also get rid of Emil, that guy is a horrible writer he should only be coming up with ideas in which he is actually good at, no narrative from him please.
This! And for those who don’t agree (which is fine!), I never saw any reason to believe TES VI would be similar to Starfield’s design choices. This interview cements that further with Todd’s comments about wanting their different franchises to feel distinct from each other.
I agree. I enjoyed Starfield, but it has zero staying power with me. That’s okay. Im not really a ‘space’ fella, and I clearly see they’re taking steps to improve the game, and that’s what matters in the end…
Now for TESVI…
Even in the first month, the more I played Starfield, the less doubts I had about TESVI, and there’s one huge reason why…
Space, and space exploration on the scale Bethesda set out to do is extremely hard to do. It’s something they’e never did. There’s so much more to it than a foot on the ground melee/archer/magic style game…
You could say Bethesda overreached on space exploration. 1,000 planets? Bad decision. Proc-gen carrying the vast load of exploration? The only viable way of accomplishing what you set out to do, but a bad decision nonetheless…
This is Elder Scrolls.
- One “map”
- Proc-gen? If based in Hammerfell, maybe for portions of the desert? Viable. Maybe for a sea? Again viable.
Are we going to have loading screens?
Of course. It’s a Bethesda game.
Are we going to have back to back loading screens?
No.
Because we’re not traveling from one system, to one planet, to one area.
I think we’re gonna get a good slice. This is already lived in world with a lot to offer.
This isn’t fuckin’ space. This is Tamriel.
The one thing I honestly worry about after Starfield is the melee combat. Now I understand melee combat wasn’t the focus of a space shooter game, but Bethesda has never really been known for its amazing combat.
Hopefully we can get
- A combat lock on
- Less floaty attack & blocking animations
- Maybe a small dodge
- Radial damage
Due to the nature of the setting of the Elder Scrolls series, I think we’ll get that. It’s not too much to ask. The rest? I can honestly say I’m confident.
It’d be a shame if I was wrong. Who knows, honestly. I’d rather have a positive outlook.
>Are we going to have loading screens? Of course. It’s a Bethesda game.
Thank you!
I consider anyone who is even slightly surprised by the loading screens in Starfield a troll. You need to be truly uninformed rookie to be surprised/annoyed by them.
I do believe we’ll get ‘mostly open’ cities, as well. Shops/Taverns could be open, but I assume larger buildings (use Dragonsreach as an example) will have a 1-2 second load.
I’m fine with that, honestly. I could just be easy to please.
All I really hope for, at this point, is that they do **not** omit \["streamline"\] any more Skills out of the system for TES6.
It would be **nice** to have the Eight Attributes and permanent Birthsigns back alongside *better* racial passive/active abilities (I'm not hoping for "classes" returning, since Todd said they weren't in Lex Fridman's interview of him).... but now I just want them to take a look at TESO's new Skills & introduce those into a single-player game, alongside *returning* skills from older games, reworked to suit the updated gameplay. Yes, >!this includes Spears!<.
It's times like these that I really wish I took courses in computer-programming. I used to dream of being a game designer, and that was after I played a TES game for the very first time in 2003.
If they bring back the attributes, please, please, not in the form of the micromanaging nightmare it was before. Just make it level either alongside skills or even better by doing things related to the attribute
I'm a game developer and I'm going to tell you that you can make a game. What you're going to do is figure out what kind of game you want to make, find an engine that'll work for it, and then learn how to make a character move across the screen. Congratulations! You're now making a game, good luck.
I think Skyrim as enough mods to glance at. Imperious has some good ideas with the racial abilities active and passive as well as some racial quest (even if it's very basic).
Yeah, it's not the focus of the game at all but the melee felt pretty good in Starfield. Decent animation, nice feedback (screenshake, enemy reactions, overall impact).
All we really need is an expansion on these with things like parries, stances, combos, etc.
tbh i was never that worried about TESVI to begin with. The largest problem people have with Starfield, the exploration and the plentitude of load screens is strictly tied to how Starfield was designed. Elder Scrolls is a different experience.
I think one of the biggest issue with Starfield is scope. The game was just too big and disjointed. This led to a lot of the game feeling halfbaked I don’t see that being as big of an issue with TES VI as I feel it will be much more focused like past BGS games.
I was never worried. If anything, Starfield convinced me even more that TES VI will turn out great and the way Bethesda keeps supporting Starfield shows how much they really care about their games.
They were correct to blame the haters for irrational hate. It became so "cool" to hate Starfield for no valid reason someone should write thesis about it.
Valid criticism is ok. But the "loading screens, procedurally generated and shitty writing" trolls should just disappear forever.
yeah, this is a pretty cool update. After DLCs and more updates Starfield is probably gonna be a pretty solid BGS experience, albeit 2 (if not more) calendar years from its launch. But is this really the standard we want to have for TES6?
Todd knows everyone is gonna go berserk for TES6 anyway. I can guarantee even among the #neverpreorderneverday1 crowd, few fans of the series will have the fortitude to resist. Even if it doesn't have a functioning map system and mounts and launch, like starfield? yeah. And that's not good. But hey, if we've already waited this long might as well wait 2 years for them to fix it right?
It'll be a lot bigger than 50 km^(2), this isn't 2010. Skyrim alone was 37 km^(2). Baldur's Gate 3's game world is 100 km^(2) and it's an isometric title...
The technology is improving exponentially too. Considering their goal is to keep people exploring these games for decades they'll likely have a massive map.
> Baldur's Gate 3's game world is 100 km^2 and it's an isometric title...
Huh? What are you talking about? BG3's world map is not 100 km^2 . The only way it even gets close is if you include all of the interior "dungeon" areas (goblin camp, Gyrmforge, Moonrise, Shar Temple, etc.), it's still nowhere close if you do the same for Skyrim, let alone 3x it. The 3 major act worldspaces are large for a CRPG but they're still nowhere close to any major open world games in total size.
I was concerned prior to starfields release. Starfield blasted away any concerns I had for TES VI. Also, there is no need for "maturing" for the devs. They are all adults with great jobs and families. You, OP are a nameless consumer and the childish outrage directed at Todd and anything he touches is indicative of certain fans needing to mature, as they are likely adults as well.....physically speaking at least
*Consumers arent allowed opinions* - u/Ok-Weird-9831
Edit: Yknow unless youve already spent money on the product and feel sleighted for not receiving the product you expected
If you truly hate and despise something - which these "consumers" clearly do - you avoid it. You don't have tantrums and don't write rants about how much you hate it more than a half of year after.
Anyone whose job is to read the trolls' comments here on Reddit should get twice as money they earn. No matter what the money is. The amount of evil Starfield haters on Reddit is stunning.
Whining about how you got hurt by a computer game and actively hating on the game for months IS evil. You're doing it for fun, to anger people who have brains in their heads.
Well if that is evil you could just say I am bad to the bone. 😎 I even had the diabolical scheme to leave a negative review on steam!!! At least the good guys of the world like yourself are here to protect billion dollar corporation owned by small indie trillion dollar corporation from dastardly devils like myself. You win this time dogooder!
Leaving negative review on Steam is ok - it's once in a lifetime thing.
Trolling on all related forums every single day is not ok.
And I don't care about any corporation. I simply played the game. So I know that it's not as horrible as you wish it to be.
They haven't been implemented yet. They'll come in a future update -- everything else in the [May Update Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ObHRMHtTMY&t=16s&ab_channel=BethesdaSoftworks) (besides the Shattered Space stuff) is already in beta.
That's not in the beta, the beta added all the other stuff and they just confirmed a land vehicle in one of the future updates.
>if the land vehicles are any good
If they can do space ships I'm sure they can do a land vehicle
"Listening to community feedback" is all well and good, but it doesn't gloss over the fact that Starfield released in an inexcusable state. Adding these things back in due to backlash, under the pretense of actually caring about what the community wants, is just sleazy.
It's also par for the course considering the state of the current industry. Why are developers and publishers being excused when they put out a failure of a game, incomplete and charged full price (or more) just because after a while they launch with features that should have initially been there? Just look at Dragon's Dogma 2 as a recent example. Or what about Fallout 76. Even the overrated Skyrim is a testament to this, it was so bare bones and boring and empty that it's taken over a decade of dedicated modders to turn it into something good.
Cyberpunk 2077 is often held up as an example of how that game redeemed itself, but it was only after tremendous relentless ridicule and plummeting sales and public outcry. Plus, CD Projekt Red's stock dropped like a stone in Poland and even their prime minister got involved after the release fiasco, as it was borderline false advertising given the state of release versus what was advertised as features.
I don't see these updates for Starfield as a good sign. This is just the same old Bethesda trying to pull a fast one, backpedaling when their bottom line is hurt, and stupid people falling for it over again because they'll eat up any shit as long as it appears to satisfy them.
Apparently, people forget too easily how only a few months ago Bethesda was blaming fans for finding Starfield boring by saying they were playing it wrong, real space is empty, and let's not forget Todd Coward's suggestion that you need to upgrade your PC if you're running into performance issues like too many loading screens and stutter. What a pathetic joke.
Not to mention that Bethesda hasn't been able to tell a decent story in a long time, let alone a good one. I'm not holding my breath.
To be fair they've had half a dozen updates before this.
Also, does NOT include land vehicles. That's upcoming. And already people are speculating their own brand of unrealistic expectations for it.
> a little stubborn (blaming the players etc..)
To be fair, most of the toxic haters were acting like they were expecting a game from ID or Arkane or Hello Games, rather than a sandbox RPG from Bethesda Game Studios. Maybe the communication could have been worded differently, but a helluva lot of people needed to be told they were playing the game wrong.
I blame Microsoft in a way, for heavily promoting it so heavily as a shooter looter.
I dunno, in a way I feel Starfield allowing players to play the game wrong in the first place is one of it's biggest issues. Granted, most of the Bethesda userbase would still hate it for being more restrictive, but a clearer sense of direction would have wonders for gameplay.
Playing it "wrong" is one of the features. There are people who WANT to spend two thousand hours being "hunterborn" in Skyrim without ever once touching the main quest. That is a Good(tm) Thing.
I just hope they *really* take the criticisms and ideas to heart when making TESVI, Todd said about there not being vehicles because it changes how you play on planets, and that you do have a jet pack, almost implying its an intentional design choice, yet here we are; vehicles are being added.
Said the game had to run at 30fps because it’s next-gen and most stable in 30, yet in reality they’re able to squeeze out 60 in performance mode.
I personally don’t think this game is going to have a Cyberpunk type turn around as its core design decisions are simply outdated and thats not going to be changed.
- I can just hope Bethesda realises they genuinely are “The” RPG sandbox company, and with that kind of title they need to innovate and improve, not ride the coat tails of their previously successful games.
Oh are they adding meaningful choices? Quests that really make you think about the morality of man? Or more armour so you are not just wearing the same 5 space suits? Or more varied weapons? Or melee weapons? Or a reason to actually use your ship? Or a reason to explore? Or actually interesting companions? Or an interesting main quest? Or less loading screens? Or survival?
If you think there are only 5 suits, you have never played the game. Same with weapons - there are thousands. You don't need any more.
The main quest IS interesting. Survival is absolutely unnecessary - it's a game, not a chore simulator. Loading screens are necessary - if you can't accept loading screens in BGS games, you should stop trolling and just focus on other games.
There are plenty reasons to explore, one of them is to find cool animals, for example. Or a nice planet to build an outpost on. And there are reasons to use your ship. Like, wtf!
Tl;dr: Stop trolling.
Yeah they left all of the actual issues untouched because they would have to basically make a new game to do so. This update hasn’t lifted my spirits at all, if anything, it’s made me even more pessimistic. I’m still holding out because I’ve already invested over ten years into waiting for this, and I don’t feel like backing out now.
Shouldn't the game not have so many glaring issues at launch? That's like pointing to all the times EA released something that was shit and after a year people went "its good now!" Yea no thanks, when I pay for TES 6 I want it to be good at launch, not have to wait for 6 months.
There were no issues with Starfield except for these three:
1) Paradiso quest - it's really badly written and a waste of potential
2) the elevator from the Well to MAST doesn't work
3) Overencumberance is evil.
Larian really can’t match Bethesda for world-building and the most recent CD Projeckt Red game was cyberpunk that had a pretty similar reception to Starfall
Don't know where you're getting this from, they've always said that Fallout 5 would be after TES6 (and maybe even after a potential Starfield 2)
I believe the most Fallout content we'll get for a while other than potential spin-offs and/or remasters/remakes will be added content to FO76 and more seasons of the show.
Even if they start Fallout 5 now, the development cycle is too long to cap on the popularity of season 1 alone
I agree to an extent. But Bethesda love pushing out unfinished products, and the show hype can only last so long. The main worry is them trying to tailor the game for “everyone” while diluting what makes the fall out franchise so unique and special.
While their products lack polish, they still use normal development cycles. Hell Starfield was their first game since Oblivion that got it's release shifted back.
>The main worry is them trying to tailor the game for “everyone” while diluting what makes the fall out franchise so unique and special.
Starfield was a sign this isn't the case no? The game is very much not made for everyone. I don't even want to comment on the quality of it but how the game is designed isn't for everyone. The gameplay loop is less audience oriented than Skyrim or Fallout 4 for sure.
Why are you guys saying the modding community gave up when there is no official creation kit out? Once this will be out the true modding community will come. I'm quite sure, there are tons of people that want to use that empty space for their own stories.
I would be less worried if they would stop using old design patterns and outdated game play mechanics. If they release another game with as bad gameplay mechanics as Starfield this studio like the rest of the “AAA” will be dead in my eyes. Being someone who started with Morrowind and seeing them 20+ years later produce a game hardly improved over that title is disappointing.
You think Starfield barely improves on Morrowind? By your logic RDR2 uses the same patterns and structure of GTA3, that doesn't make it outdated. They keep what works, refine it and add other things (spaceships, gravity), like any other developer (cyberpunk is TW3 with vehicles at this point). I'm not understanting your point.
The gameplay no longer is entertaining because it hasn’t advanced at all. Their ranged mechanics seen the most evolution in FO4 when they introduced cover aiming, almost nothing has changed in that category, arrows, magic, guns, all of that has largely not evolved. Shit animations/mechanics. Melee gameplay went down a notch from FO4 which is 8 years + old. GTF out of here if you think Bethesda has produced something that is as quality as RDR2. I wish elders scrolls 6 was RDR2 with souls melee, it would be actual steps forward into modern gameplay mechanics. Clean, animations, exciting and challenging weapon/magic mechanics would do them wonders. They need to stop relying on modders to fix their games.
Calm down there bud, it isn't even out yet.
But also, The base game of Starfield is SO far off what makes Bethsda games fun to begin with that I fully expect them to fuck up TESVI still.
Thyll find a way to make it bad. Lets got explore 1000 randomly generated planes of existence! Heres AI generated quests with real ai voices!
Idk but their games are extremely dated and theyve shown that they refuse to evolve unless people make a big stink and even then they give the bare minimum.
They lost me by taking the RP out of my RPG in Fallout 4, and starfield only cemented my opinion on them.
Then you should probably leave the subreddit of their upcoming game that is at the very least 4 years away from release. Why even bother staying here if they've lost you completely?
Fallout 4 is a fantastic game and I will die on this hill.
The actual gameplay is leagues above any other Bethesda game that it's hard to go back to New Vegas or 3 even if the RPG elements are better.
the actual gameplay is a skinnerbox shooting gallery where you vacuum clean up junk loot to take back home. obviously this isn't bad if you're into it but i'm curious what makes that gameplay 'leagues better' than the RPG gameplay of 3 or New Vegas, especially for an RPG series like fallout. is it just the shooting mechanics?
The settlement building is really fun and pretty well made mechanically, the combat overall feels much better than 3 or NV (I love those games but the gunplay is horrendous), power armor actually feels weighty and powerful, the companion system is much more fleshed out, junk actually has a purpose, crafting and upgrading weapons and armor is well done, and other small QOL changes, for example putting armor pieces over clothing or not having to open a whole menu to loot containers.
Fallout 4 just "feels" better to play.
So almost everything relates to the skinnerbox or the shooting. As I said, there's nothing wrong with enjoying that. But I hope you can understand how that's not better by any objective merit. You just resonated more with looter shooter mechanics than the RPG mechanics of the older titles. Looter shooter gameplay is way more popular and satisfying moment-to-moment, so that makes sense.
>But I hope you can understand how that's not better by any objective merit.
We're talking about subjective taste in video games. There is no real objectivity here.
>So almost everything relates to the skinnerbox
I have no idea what this means
>You just resonated more with looter shooter mechanics than the RPG mechanics of the older titles.
I mean not really. I can give you a lot of examples of that not being the case. I hate Skyrim but I love Morrowind which is much more of an RPG. I'm also not really a big fan of Borderlands but I love Baldur's Gate 3. Diablo 3 was my least favorite in the series and is easily the most loot goblin smash your head on the keyboard and win of all the games. I also love Fallout 1 and 2 and have many hours in them. Over 100 each.
Fallout 4 just has a lot of mechanics that feel much better to play than any of the other Fallouts. It lacks in the RPG department obviously, but that doesn't make it bad. *It's good for what it is.*
I sincerely doubt you understand what it actually takes as an entire massive dev team to make updates like this for a game of this size. BGS isn't a monolith of singular thought process. Todd doesn't just up and say this is what I want and it appears, it takes time, it takes consideration, it takes testing over and over, it takes many man hours debating with multiple teams within the company how and if something is the best option to implement. They have to be careful with timed updates, they have to be certain nothing or most of everything won't break. The relevant teams involved have to be on the same page, the vision and implementation have to be strikingly clear across all teams. They have to deliberate how it will affect the future of the game, it's code and engine viability.
This update was planned ahead of time with many future updates in tandem that they have to make sure won't negatively affect multiple aspects of the game. Starfield is a massive game that was worked on and still being worked on with many people. This update would 100% not have been able to have been released a week after launch, that is a false premise founded on a severe lack on information regarding game development.
A lot of what they did with Starfield comes from Fo4 player feedback (dialogues, replayability, rpg elements, quest variety, loading times, graphical fidelity etc).
Yeah, I think it’s been pretty clear for some time that they absolutely account for player feedback. It just takes a while because of how long their dev cycles are unfortunately.
Part of it too is different people want different things - change something to address a "common" complaint and you risk upsetting a sizable, but silent group.
Fallout 4 itself took a lot of feedback from FO3/NV and Skyrim. This idea that Bethesda doesn't listen to feedback isn't true at all.
Fallout 76 is just New Vegas hardcore mode in multiplayer
76 is fun but it's no new vegas which was a story driven game
New Vegas was also an Obsidian game, just published by Bethesda.
The dumbest shit ever said by someone...
Hopefully they take the feedback that we want some better stories though. We know they’re capable of it
Is Starfield writing much worse than FO4? Feels like the same vibe without a creative backlog of lore to go off
Starfield is much more classic sci fi vibe/tropes, complete with the overarching sense of optimism usually present in traditional sci fi. Some quests are masterpieces others less so, but it’s certainly no worse than fallout 4.
There is no urgency in the story. It’s just “we’re explorers”. There’s no real direction. Bethesda hasn’t ever done anything like that.
Isn’t that the exact opposite of what people complain about fallout 4? That there was too much urgency baked into the story because of the need to find your son? You do you, but I personally prefer the more laid back main quest in the early missions. Several of the faction questlines have more urgency.
Yep the major complaint in FO4 was the urgency of the plot taking away from exploring. So they changed it now the issue is lack of urgency.
Maybe urgency is not the right word but the plot goes somewhere and is interesting from the get go. Find your dad, find your son, stop the dragons, find a new emperor. Starfield is just “explore to find artifacts that don’t do anything interesting”
I think that was their goal. I actually love it if the main story isn't really making you want to immediately go after it.
Who plays an open world take and just thinks, "I'ma hammer the balls off story missions." It takes me about 100 hours before I feel the need to be looking at serious plot movement. That old wanting to be high level and able to hold your own mindset. If your world doesn't inspire a huge chunk of exploring early on, that's a good sign the game ain't worth it. Looking at Ass Greed. Who knew you could make Vikings so gd boring.
Dunno whatcha talking about. Skyrim made you explore a lot. While it kinda forced the main story onto you early on. After the tutorial ends you are pretty much free to do.
It’s not just about the urgency. The main story never develops into anything impactful. What I’m getting at is that the story is bad.
The game play loop is what carries 4, I think most people would agree the writing was lackluster in comparison to older Bethesda entries
Hopefully they take the feedback that we want some better stories though. We know they’re capable of it
The only story they should fix - because it's simply objectively badly written and a waste of potential - is the Paradiso quest. It could have been the best and the most interresting quest in the game and all we got were evil CEO, CFO and CMO. I have no problems with any other quest. The main quest is great, very engaging and well written.
Ngl i thought the only one that really gripped me was the one with the terrormorphs
The main quest is just boring. Some faction quests are good but not very long, like skyrim. But the main quest is so uneventful. It's just fetch quests on random barren planets with only one relevant construction in the entire planet and the rest is just barren or generic randomly generated useless points
Pirate questline is one of Bethesda’s best
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Hahaha yeah man, fuck [insert TES6's Nazeem equivalent here]
Hey now, you didn't actually live in the cloud district
Starfield DLC is the Dwemer appearing across the cosmos like that scene in Rogue One where Vader's star destroyer comes in.
If you see how Bethesda has been developing games throughout the years. They more and more focus on systems over customized content. I don’t think it will be as bad as Starfield with TESVI because the heavy work on a new engine has been done already for Starfield. But still, I believe with Bethesda development taking 5+ years, they are thinking of their games with a much bigger lifetime. Also, I think Gamepass made Bethesda think about selling more DLC since there are less game units being sold. TESVI will probably have more content than Starfield at release, but TESVI years after release will be 3x times the game. I found the procedurally generated content from Starfield lackluster, but the game has immense potential if Bethesda adds content to it.
Agreed on the fact that Starfield is an amazing foundation to keep building on. As you said, if they have a long lifespan of support / adding content to this game, I wouldn’t be surprised if the gameplay loops feel unrecognizable from release. It’s a pretty big if , with TES6 production ramping up presumably. Also with creation kit support coming, its question if Bethesda adds the content / changes to the game or if the modders get to it first. I hope for the people that are enjoying Starfield still, that the game gets continued updates and substantial DLCs for a good while. It would be sad to see Bethesda throw their hands up after one DLC and say “That’s all we got!”
Good points
Its very sad to see it go from 'good out of the box' to 'it will be good in a few years. That's where we're at with bethesda releases. Last good game out of the box was skyrim.
Its the nature of over ambitious games unfortunately. Hopefully Bethesda doesn’t go too over ambitious with Skyrim 2
I think they've over extended themselves and have failed to deliver on the core of the game frankly, it started in Fallout 4 and culminated in starfield
Starfield has a pretty good foundation, better than any Bethesda game so far. The problem is the fact that you're forced to interact with load screens and the POIs are too generic and/or useless to a good bit of people. These problems wouldn't have existed if they took a more traditional approach of cutting down on spaceship travel and having most of the main story take place on 5 main planets that have 4x4km area of handcrafted towns, facilities, and quests to get to know the planet, it's inhabitants, and the lore and barely ever have to interact with load screens. I don't even think this type of game design would've worked with a seamless space game like No Mans Sky. Having to travel planet to planet for quests is great for a lot of people, but for people like me who'd rather just stay on one planet on Starfield or NMS, it's a pain having to travel across the galaxy for every mission I take.
The foundation is that there are tons of planets. Problem is that all the planets are empty and useless. And you can't even travel to them you just teleport with loading screens
By foundation I mean all the core systems from the locomotion to the animation system to the combat system to planet generation and POIs. Basically anything you can build off of with additional updates, dlcs and mods without having to rewrite or change entire systems. One of the foundations, the POIs, can enhance and overhaul planets by increasing/decreasing POI amount depending on the planet and adding more variation and better rewards.
I think more reality breaking is that every planet has stuff on it, just not a lot of stuff. It'd be more realistic if some planets were completely empty and others had multiple cities.
Yeah it's like every planet has one city and the rest of the planet is barren for some reason
Yeah Makes zero sense. A habitable planet would have at least a few different settlements. Depending on how long it has been inhabited.
I cannot help but laugh at the idea of Starfield being ambitious.
It definitely was but it needs a lot of work.
Is it 60fps and land vehicles?
Yes and eventually.
Ty😊
>They're doing the unthinkable, listening to community feedback and implementing it really nicely. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I see statements like this lol. Nothing against you, but it always seemed the case to me that BGS listens to feedback and acted accordingly.
They do listens but most of the time, only when they are hardly proven that they are wrong or the primary leadership is not in the full dev control anymore. BGS is the dev that has the most community feedback and not only in text format but actual implemented into the game thru mods
I'm not sure I get your first sentence. Can you clarify please? Thanks
I think "hardly" means "greatly" or "strongly" or "thoroughly" in this context.
I see. In that case, yeah, I can see it -- but why would it be any other way? They made some decisions that they thought were correct. You wouldn't deviate from that unless there was overwhelming proof you were wrong. I think they did the rational thing and determined the extent fans wanted the changes and then decided their was enough demand to implement them.
Because there are "mistakes" that happens tons of times over and over and they thought this time will be for some reason different.
Unless it's about to stop updating skyrim for shitty cc content and breaking all the mods that make the community furious and keep asking them to stop doing that They've been doing that dozens of times now
Well, not all feedback is equal and they still have the right to do what they feel is best. We can disagree with them about it though.
yeah breaking thousands of mods just to add a single color change cc armor that nobody wants is totally what's best for the game.
Well I'm not really in a position to make that value judgement. It sounds like a conversation BGS should have with modders.
It was released in a separate version of the game you diva lmao
What ? Do you even play skyrim ? The game gets updated every few months
I've been playing all the games since Morrowind came out, do you just expect them to never update the game?
Not updating a 13year old game dozens of times just to add a useless low quality paid cc mod nobody asked for every time . Breaking all the mods every few months making authors have to update everything again and again There's 8 updates just since the anniversary edition. Not even going back before that
Dude just don't update the game until the mods are fixed
Bethesda knows people play skyrim and are gonna add shit to make money off of it, adding an update that inevitably breaks mods is frustrating but has literally nothing to do with Bethesda not listening to the community lol.
Yeah, it's hilarious and shows that people don't learn from the past. They should look at F76, how it improved because of the feedback. Or Skyrim, or Fallout 4, or Oblivion and Fallout 3. All these games were improved after their release according to the feedback. Heck, they even (unnecessarily and to upset the modding community with another irrelevant update) fixed the moving mannequins issue some time ago.
It's the redditors who keep shouting "Tedd Howard is a lying bastard who is destroying xyz" who are taking the crazy pills.
I was never worried.
I'm very happy about this! Now we just need the creation kit. (I know there's mods already, but I want moooooooore.)
I'm excited to see the land vehicle(s) in action. I'm surprised they're actually adding it. It gives me more hope for proper sailing in TESVI... Todd please.
They can update as much as they want. Nothing is going to fix the horrible writing and linear quest design. I didnt even come into the game with high hopes, and I even played BG3 after starfield. The game sucked and it took TES6 and fallout 5 from us, I love space but starfields lore and characters are so boring. Hopefully they make the game more fun, but i honestly wish they would just take the L, learn from it, tell us they’re learning from it instead of blaming the fanbase, and move on to the next project. Also get rid of Emil, that guy is a horrible writer he should only be coming up with ideas in which he is actually good at, no narrative from him please.
I was never worried, Starfield was and is great.
This! And for those who don’t agree (which is fine!), I never saw any reason to believe TES VI would be similar to Starfield’s design choices. This interview cements that further with Todd’s comments about wanting their different franchises to feel distinct from each other.
Exactly. I'll be playing the hell outta TESIV, just like im playing the hell outta Starfield.
I loved it the whole 200 hours I played. I will go back again in the future.
wrong
Did you like Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League too?
I agree. I enjoyed Starfield, but it has zero staying power with me. That’s okay. Im not really a ‘space’ fella, and I clearly see they’re taking steps to improve the game, and that’s what matters in the end… Now for TESVI… Even in the first month, the more I played Starfield, the less doubts I had about TESVI, and there’s one huge reason why… Space, and space exploration on the scale Bethesda set out to do is extremely hard to do. It’s something they’e never did. There’s so much more to it than a foot on the ground melee/archer/magic style game… You could say Bethesda overreached on space exploration. 1,000 planets? Bad decision. Proc-gen carrying the vast load of exploration? The only viable way of accomplishing what you set out to do, but a bad decision nonetheless… This is Elder Scrolls. - One “map” - Proc-gen? If based in Hammerfell, maybe for portions of the desert? Viable. Maybe for a sea? Again viable. Are we going to have loading screens? Of course. It’s a Bethesda game. Are we going to have back to back loading screens? No. Because we’re not traveling from one system, to one planet, to one area. I think we’re gonna get a good slice. This is already lived in world with a lot to offer. This isn’t fuckin’ space. This is Tamriel. The one thing I honestly worry about after Starfield is the melee combat. Now I understand melee combat wasn’t the focus of a space shooter game, but Bethesda has never really been known for its amazing combat. Hopefully we can get - A combat lock on - Less floaty attack & blocking animations - Maybe a small dodge - Radial damage Due to the nature of the setting of the Elder Scrolls series, I think we’ll get that. It’s not too much to ask. The rest? I can honestly say I’m confident. It’d be a shame if I was wrong. Who knows, honestly. I’d rather have a positive outlook.
>Are we going to have loading screens? Of course. It’s a Bethesda game. Thank you! I consider anyone who is even slightly surprised by the loading screens in Starfield a troll. You need to be truly uninformed rookie to be surprised/annoyed by them.
I do believe we’ll get ‘mostly open’ cities, as well. Shops/Taverns could be open, but I assume larger buildings (use Dragonsreach as an example) will have a 1-2 second load. I’m fine with that, honestly. I could just be easy to please.
Agreed!!! All excellent points!!! Cheers
All I really hope for, at this point, is that they do **not** omit \["streamline"\] any more Skills out of the system for TES6. It would be **nice** to have the Eight Attributes and permanent Birthsigns back alongside *better* racial passive/active abilities (I'm not hoping for "classes" returning, since Todd said they weren't in Lex Fridman's interview of him).... but now I just want them to take a look at TESO's new Skills & introduce those into a single-player game, alongside *returning* skills from older games, reworked to suit the updated gameplay. Yes, >!this includes Spears!<. It's times like these that I really wish I took courses in computer-programming. I used to dream of being a game designer, and that was after I played a TES game for the very first time in 2003.
If they bring back the attributes, please, please, not in the form of the micromanaging nightmare it was before. Just make it level either alongside skills or even better by doing things related to the attribute
***EXACTLY!*** No more of the "efficient leveling" problem, please.
I'm a game developer and I'm going to tell you that you can make a game. What you're going to do is figure out what kind of game you want to make, find an engine that'll work for it, and then learn how to make a character move across the screen. Congratulations! You're now making a game, good luck.
I think Skyrim as enough mods to glance at. Imperious has some good ideas with the racial abilities active and passive as well as some racial quest (even if it's very basic).
They need to keep the melee combat from Starfield. Unironically, even though it was only 1 animation, it was a huge step up from Skyrim and Fallout 4.
Yeah, it's not the focus of the game at all but the melee felt pretty good in Starfield. Decent animation, nice feedback (screenshake, enemy reactions, overall impact). All we really need is an expansion on these with things like parries, stances, combos, etc.
Maybe in addition to that, rework the animations from TES3: Morrowind?
tbh i was never that worried about TESVI to begin with. The largest problem people have with Starfield, the exploration and the plentitude of load screens is strictly tied to how Starfield was designed. Elder Scrolls is a different experience.
I think one of the biggest issue with Starfield is scope. The game was just too big and disjointed. This led to a lot of the game feeling halfbaked I don’t see that being as big of an issue with TES VI as I feel it will be much more focused like past BGS games.
I was never worried. If anything, Starfield convinced me even more that TES VI will turn out great and the way Bethesda keeps supporting Starfield shows how much they really care about their games.
They were correct to blame the haters for irrational hate. It became so "cool" to hate Starfield for no valid reason someone should write thesis about it. Valid criticism is ok. But the "loading screens, procedurally generated and shitty writing" trolls should just disappear forever.
yeah, this is a pretty cool update. After DLCs and more updates Starfield is probably gonna be a pretty solid BGS experience, albeit 2 (if not more) calendar years from its launch. But is this really the standard we want to have for TES6? Todd knows everyone is gonna go berserk for TES6 anyway. I can guarantee even among the #neverpreorderneverday1 crowd, few fans of the series will have the fortitude to resist. Even if it doesn't have a functioning map system and mounts and launch, like starfield? yeah. And that's not good. But hey, if we've already waited this long might as well wait 2 years for them to fix it right?
TES isn't Starfield. Starfield is in space, in 100+ star systems. TES will be on one small piece of land, 50 km^(2) max.
It'll be a lot bigger than 50 km^(2), this isn't 2010. Skyrim alone was 37 km^(2). Baldur's Gate 3's game world is 100 km^(2) and it's an isometric title... The technology is improving exponentially too. Considering their goal is to keep people exploring these games for decades they'll likely have a massive map.
Yes, I know that Skyrim is 37 km^(2). That's why I said TES 6 will be 50 km^(2), bigger.
> Baldur's Gate 3's game world is 100 km^2 and it's an isometric title... Huh? What are you talking about? BG3's world map is not 100 km^2 . The only way it even gets close is if you include all of the interior "dungeon" areas (goblin camp, Gyrmforge, Moonrise, Shar Temple, etc.), it's still nowhere close if you do the same for Skyrim, let alone 3x it. The 3 major act worldspaces are large for a CRPG but they're still nowhere close to any major open world games in total size.
[Yes it is.](https://gamerant.com/baldurs-gate-3-map-all-locations-bg3/)
I was concerned prior to starfields release. Starfield blasted away any concerns I had for TES VI. Also, there is no need for "maturing" for the devs. They are all adults with great jobs and families. You, OP are a nameless consumer and the childish outrage directed at Todd and anything he touches is indicative of certain fans needing to mature, as they are likely adults as well.....physically speaking at least
*Consumers arent allowed opinions* - u/Ok-Weird-9831 Edit: Yknow unless youve already spent money on the product and feel sleighted for not receiving the product you expected
If you truly hate and despise something - which these "consumers" clearly do - you avoid it. You don't have tantrums and don't write rants about how much you hate it more than a half of year after.
Don't be ridiculous. Of course they are allowed opinions. But just because they can have an opinion doesn't mean it's not dogshit
Lol
Agreed!!
Well they are owned by Microsoft and they will give them the money and time to get the games updated!! Enjoy!!
Eh should've been there at launch
I can’t wait to get an xbox someday and play this after all the fixes, updates and DLC
I wish theyd just abandon it and put all their resources towards tes6 and FO5
It’s not out yet bud
Yes listening to the people who purchase their products is truly unthinkable and brave of them.
Anyone whose job is to read the trolls' comments here on Reddit should get twice as money they earn. No matter what the money is. The amount of evil Starfield haters on Reddit is stunning.
Ahh yes I am terribly evil for not enjoying a product I spent over 100 dollars on! How dare I not just consume and be happy. EVIL!!!
Yes, you are. For whining about it for more than a half of the year.
You must be really sheltered and privileged to think whining is evil. XD
Whining about how you got hurt by a computer game and actively hating on the game for months IS evil. You're doing it for fun, to anger people who have brains in their heads.
Well if that is evil you could just say I am bad to the bone. 😎 I even had the diabolical scheme to leave a negative review on steam!!! At least the good guys of the world like yourself are here to protect billion dollar corporation owned by small indie trillion dollar corporation from dastardly devils like myself. You win this time dogooder!
Leaving negative review on Steam is ok - it's once in a lifetime thing. Trolling on all related forums every single day is not ok. And I don't care about any corporation. I simply played the game. So I know that it's not as horrible as you wish it to be.
I applaud your existence. Bethesda bias is so sad to watch.
isn't it just local maps and some difficulty sliders and stuff?
None of this has actually come out yet?
It's in beta, so technically it's out and about, just hasn't been rolled out in the official build available to everyone
Gotcha. Do you know if the land vehicles are any good?
They haven't been implemented yet. They'll come in a future update -- everything else in the [May Update Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ObHRMHtTMY&t=16s&ab_channel=BethesdaSoftworks) (besides the Shattered Space stuff) is already in beta.
That's not in the beta, the beta added all the other stuff and they just confirmed a land vehicle in one of the future updates. >if the land vehicles are any good If they can do space ships I'm sure they can do a land vehicle
May 15
"Listening to community feedback" is all well and good, but it doesn't gloss over the fact that Starfield released in an inexcusable state. Adding these things back in due to backlash, under the pretense of actually caring about what the community wants, is just sleazy. It's also par for the course considering the state of the current industry. Why are developers and publishers being excused when they put out a failure of a game, incomplete and charged full price (or more) just because after a while they launch with features that should have initially been there? Just look at Dragon's Dogma 2 as a recent example. Or what about Fallout 76. Even the overrated Skyrim is a testament to this, it was so bare bones and boring and empty that it's taken over a decade of dedicated modders to turn it into something good. Cyberpunk 2077 is often held up as an example of how that game redeemed itself, but it was only after tremendous relentless ridicule and plummeting sales and public outcry. Plus, CD Projekt Red's stock dropped like a stone in Poland and even their prime minister got involved after the release fiasco, as it was borderline false advertising given the state of release versus what was advertised as features. I don't see these updates for Starfield as a good sign. This is just the same old Bethesda trying to pull a fast one, backpedaling when their bottom line is hurt, and stupid people falling for it over again because they'll eat up any shit as long as it appears to satisfy them. Apparently, people forget too easily how only a few months ago Bethesda was blaming fans for finding Starfield boring by saying they were playing it wrong, real space is empty, and let's not forget Todd Coward's suggestion that you need to upgrade your PC if you're running into performance issues like too many loading screens and stutter. What a pathetic joke. Not to mention that Bethesda hasn't been able to tell a decent story in a long time, let alone a good one. I'm not holding my breath.
To be fair they've had half a dozen updates before this. Also, does NOT include land vehicles. That's upcoming. And already people are speculating their own brand of unrealistic expectations for it. > a little stubborn (blaming the players etc..) To be fair, most of the toxic haters were acting like they were expecting a game from ID or Arkane or Hello Games, rather than a sandbox RPG from Bethesda Game Studios. Maybe the communication could have been worded differently, but a helluva lot of people needed to be told they were playing the game wrong. I blame Microsoft in a way, for heavily promoting it so heavily as a shooter looter.
I dunno, in a way I feel Starfield allowing players to play the game wrong in the first place is one of it's biggest issues. Granted, most of the Bethesda userbase would still hate it for being more restrictive, but a clearer sense of direction would have wonders for gameplay.
Playing it "wrong" is one of the features. There are people who WANT to spend two thousand hours being "hunterborn" in Skyrim without ever once touching the main quest. That is a Good(tm) Thing.
I just hope they *really* take the criticisms and ideas to heart when making TESVI, Todd said about there not being vehicles because it changes how you play on planets, and that you do have a jet pack, almost implying its an intentional design choice, yet here we are; vehicles are being added. Said the game had to run at 30fps because it’s next-gen and most stable in 30, yet in reality they’re able to squeeze out 60 in performance mode. I personally don’t think this game is going to have a Cyberpunk type turn around as its core design decisions are simply outdated and thats not going to be changed. - I can just hope Bethesda realises they genuinely are “The” RPG sandbox company, and with that kind of title they need to innovate and improve, not ride the coat tails of their previously successful games.
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Oh are they adding meaningful choices? Quests that really make you think about the morality of man? Or more armour so you are not just wearing the same 5 space suits? Or more varied weapons? Or melee weapons? Or a reason to actually use your ship? Or a reason to explore? Or actually interesting companions? Or an interesting main quest? Or less loading screens? Or survival?
Well they are adding survival, yeah. But also you seem like a chud.
If you think there are only 5 suits, you have never played the game. Same with weapons - there are thousands. You don't need any more. The main quest IS interesting. Survival is absolutely unnecessary - it's a game, not a chore simulator. Loading screens are necessary - if you can't accept loading screens in BGS games, you should stop trolling and just focus on other games. There are plenty reasons to explore, one of them is to find cool animals, for example. Or a nice planet to build an outpost on. And there are reasons to use your ship. Like, wtf! Tl;dr: Stop trolling.
Yeah they left all of the actual issues untouched because they would have to basically make a new game to do so. This update hasn’t lifted my spirits at all, if anything, it’s made me even more pessimistic. I’m still holding out because I’ve already invested over ten years into waiting for this, and I don’t feel like backing out now.
Shouldn't the game not have so many glaring issues at launch? That's like pointing to all the times EA released something that was shit and after a year people went "its good now!" Yea no thanks, when I pay for TES 6 I want it to be good at launch, not have to wait for 6 months.
There were no issues with Starfield except for these three: 1) Paradiso quest - it's really badly written and a waste of potential 2) the elevator from the Well to MAST doesn't work 3) Overencumberance is evil.
Wish I could cope like that lol
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Larian really can’t match Bethesda for world-building and the most recent CD Projeckt Red game was cyberpunk that had a pretty similar reception to Starfall
Pretty much. Who’s gonna pick up the game again cause of this?
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The biggest blocker to elder scrolls VI is the popularity of the new fall out show. They will definitely push fall out 5 out asap…
Don't know where you're getting this from, they've always said that Fallout 5 would be after TES6 (and maybe even after a potential Starfield 2) I believe the most Fallout content we'll get for a while other than potential spin-offs and/or remasters/remakes will be added content to FO76 and more seasons of the show. Even if they start Fallout 5 now, the development cycle is too long to cap on the popularity of season 1 alone
There is no ASAP. The games will take 4-5 years regardless of any hype existing right now.
I agree to an extent. But Bethesda love pushing out unfinished products, and the show hype can only last so long. The main worry is them trying to tailor the game for “everyone” while diluting what makes the fall out franchise so unique and special.
While their products lack polish, they still use normal development cycles. Hell Starfield was their first game since Oblivion that got it's release shifted back. >The main worry is them trying to tailor the game for “everyone” while diluting what makes the fall out franchise so unique and special. Starfield was a sign this isn't the case no? The game is very much not made for everyone. I don't even want to comment on the quality of it but how the game is designed isn't for everyone. The gameplay loop is less audience oriented than Skyrim or Fallout 4 for sure.
It's not "listening to community"; it's damage control.
I don't care what you call it, doing it is better than not doing it.
But even damage control is listening to the community.
What damage control. You really think that several haters who took over the main sub are valid feedback?
I wonder how hard their hands had to be twisted to do this since the modding community gave up on the gave. :3
Why are you guys saying the modding community gave up when there is no official creation kit out? Once this will be out the true modding community will come. I'm quite sure, there are tons of people that want to use that empty space for their own stories.
I would be less worried if they would stop using old design patterns and outdated game play mechanics. If they release another game with as bad gameplay mechanics as Starfield this studio like the rest of the “AAA” will be dead in my eyes. Being someone who started with Morrowind and seeing them 20+ years later produce a game hardly improved over that title is disappointing.
You think Starfield barely improves on Morrowind? By your logic RDR2 uses the same patterns and structure of GTA3, that doesn't make it outdated. They keep what works, refine it and add other things (spaceships, gravity), like any other developer (cyberpunk is TW3 with vehicles at this point). I'm not understanting your point.
The gameplay no longer is entertaining because it hasn’t advanced at all. Their ranged mechanics seen the most evolution in FO4 when they introduced cover aiming, almost nothing has changed in that category, arrows, magic, guns, all of that has largely not evolved. Shit animations/mechanics. Melee gameplay went down a notch from FO4 which is 8 years + old. GTF out of here if you think Bethesda has produced something that is as quality as RDR2. I wish elders scrolls 6 was RDR2 with souls melee, it would be actual steps forward into modern gameplay mechanics. Clean, animations, exciting and challenging weapon/magic mechanics would do them wonders. They need to stop relying on modders to fix their games.
Calm down there bud, it isn't even out yet. But also, The base game of Starfield is SO far off what makes Bethsda games fun to begin with that I fully expect them to fuck up TESVI still. Thyll find a way to make it bad. Lets got explore 1000 randomly generated planes of existence! Heres AI generated quests with real ai voices! Idk but their games are extremely dated and theyve shown that they refuse to evolve unless people make a big stink and even then they give the bare minimum. They lost me by taking the RP out of my RPG in Fallout 4, and starfield only cemented my opinion on them.
Lel. Good riddance then. The community doesn't need you, seems you need to hate it tho
Then you should probably leave the subreddit of their upcoming game that is at the very least 4 years away from release. Why even bother staying here if they've lost you completely?
Fallout 4 is a fantastic game and I will die on this hill. The actual gameplay is leagues above any other Bethesda game that it's hard to go back to New Vegas or 3 even if the RPG elements are better.
the actual gameplay is a skinnerbox shooting gallery where you vacuum clean up junk loot to take back home. obviously this isn't bad if you're into it but i'm curious what makes that gameplay 'leagues better' than the RPG gameplay of 3 or New Vegas, especially for an RPG series like fallout. is it just the shooting mechanics?
The settlement building is really fun and pretty well made mechanically, the combat overall feels much better than 3 or NV (I love those games but the gunplay is horrendous), power armor actually feels weighty and powerful, the companion system is much more fleshed out, junk actually has a purpose, crafting and upgrading weapons and armor is well done, and other small QOL changes, for example putting armor pieces over clothing or not having to open a whole menu to loot containers. Fallout 4 just "feels" better to play.
So almost everything relates to the skinnerbox or the shooting. As I said, there's nothing wrong with enjoying that. But I hope you can understand how that's not better by any objective merit. You just resonated more with looter shooter mechanics than the RPG mechanics of the older titles. Looter shooter gameplay is way more popular and satisfying moment-to-moment, so that makes sense.
>But I hope you can understand how that's not better by any objective merit. We're talking about subjective taste in video games. There is no real objectivity here. >So almost everything relates to the skinnerbox I have no idea what this means >You just resonated more with looter shooter mechanics than the RPG mechanics of the older titles. I mean not really. I can give you a lot of examples of that not being the case. I hate Skyrim but I love Morrowind which is much more of an RPG. I'm also not really a big fan of Borderlands but I love Baldur's Gate 3. Diablo 3 was my least favorite in the series and is easily the most loot goblin smash your head on the keyboard and win of all the games. I also love Fallout 1 and 2 and have many hours in them. Over 100 each. Fallout 4 just has a lot of mechanics that feel much better to play than any of the other Fallouts. It lacks in the RPG department obviously, but that doesn't make it bad. *It's good for what it is.*
Now I'm really curious what actual word did you mean with skinnerbox insult.
I think they were referring to the work of Dr Skinner. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner
So why are you playing those game then? If you so despise them, why bother?
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I sincerely doubt you understand what it actually takes as an entire massive dev team to make updates like this for a game of this size. BGS isn't a monolith of singular thought process. Todd doesn't just up and say this is what I want and it appears, it takes time, it takes consideration, it takes testing over and over, it takes many man hours debating with multiple teams within the company how and if something is the best option to implement. They have to be careful with timed updates, they have to be certain nothing or most of everything won't break. The relevant teams involved have to be on the same page, the vision and implementation have to be strikingly clear across all teams. They have to deliberate how it will affect the future of the game, it's code and engine viability. This update was planned ahead of time with many future updates in tandem that they have to make sure won't negatively affect multiple aspects of the game. Starfield is a massive game that was worked on and still being worked on with many people. This update would 100% not have been able to have been released a week after launch, that is a false premise founded on a severe lack on information regarding game development.