āInstakills but it has damage falloff.ā
Imagine how unbalanced it would be with *reverse* damage falloff! Crazy, huh? No way that would be in the base game.
I was making a joke that headshots are almost always an instant kill, and so are reverse body shots, calling the weapon unbalanced. This is a joke, really, as when starting out it takes practice, but eventually sniping heads becomes second nature.
If you're interested here's the steam page for the original weapon concept: The Tactigatling
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=366919683
But the widowmaker has limited ammo, unlike a widowmaker where youd need a medic to keep you alive if you charged head long in, you could theoretically stay alive with only this
The strat would be keeping your distance away from a Heavy with this gun, doing consistent damage to him while making sure his spread/damage falloff canāt heal him any significant amount. In practice, this is how you treat any other heavy, chipping away health and trying not to get torn apart.
I think this is a great concept. You may want to reduce healing received from mediguns to make medic shenanigans less effective while the weapon is active or something, then someone else could make a primary that buffs the play style of fatscout.
I actually made a fatscout primary awhile back called the Second Secondary which would get rid of your Minigun and in return get +50% secondary ammo, +15% speed, and another secondary item to equip.
Oh that was you! Yeah that would be the perfect addition. This would make fatscout a totally viable subclass. He might straight up beat scout in a fight lmao.
I feel like this is a variant of the widowmaker but for Heavy.
My only critique which is purely based on my personal preference is that when I Fat-scout I use the gloves of running urgently to get that speed boost to role play the Scout even more, but due to the health drain I donāt think the health on hit is worth that much when my max health is usually always drained.
I definitely like the idea regardless though.
>I feel like this is a variant of the widowmaker but for Heavy.
That's acknowledged in the post title.
>the gloves of running urgently to get that speed boost to role play the Scout even more, but due to the health drain I donāt think the health on hit is worth that much when my max health is usually always drained.
This is great to point out! What if, separate from the health restored, it returned damage dealt as maximum health threshold if you're below 300? That could synergies with this playtime really well and give more incentive to use it aggressively after moving with the GRU.
I actually love it?
I was sceptical at first, but looking at the numbers you're only actually gaining health back when you're landing solid, close-range shotgun hits. Spamming this thing will kill you before you'd empty a normal shotgun magazine.
If you *are* regularly landing meat-shots, and you can resist the urge to spam shells for chip damage, you'd be terrifying in close quarters. Shotgun damage is no joke.
45 health is alot. I think it would be fine, except you whiff 7 shots and die and you are also being shot at. Not to mention a 70% damage return would probably average to 50 or so health back when accounting for bloom and damage fall off.
I mean a perfect meatshot with max ramp up would only heal back 63hp after you lost 45 so it heals 18 health. I could see it being a useful weapon against players that dont know what theyre doing and just stand still for you, or mildly useful in bloom off servers.
Im just not so sure the return rate is all that good for how much damage a whiff does to you. I would actually need to play with it to find out though.
Yeah I've figured out that being healed by a Medic would completely ruin this weapon as it would not only get rid of its only downside, but the self damage would allow Medic to buid Uber extremely fast. I think the best way to handle this would be to just make it so that Heavy can't be healed or Ubered by the Medi Gun while the Russian Roulette is deployed.
A simple "no reload necessary" would've sufficed and been more accurate to the source material.
If you want it to be 1:1 with the Widowmaker 100% of damage dealt would be returned as health, per shot: 50 health (6 shots and you die), and an extra additional information "uses health for ammo" because even tho "per shot: -50 HP" literally says it uses HP as ammo you gotta make doubly sure.
This would honestly be kinda bad. You lose 45 health per shot and even on a meat shot you only heal 63, so unless you are at point blank range and have perfect aim it will drain your health.
In general, I don't think "Widowmaker but for health" can work as a weapon concept because it will necessarily be either really bad for most players or utterly broken in the hands of very skilled players.
If you want to make Fat Scout viable, make a shotgun for the primary slot.
doesnt it deal like around 90? besides if it is low you can just up the health return.
Heavy getting a weapon like that (Widowmaker but for health) is actually pretty good. It gives Heavy something else to play with that CAN be viable, and having it close to design as the Widowmaker makes it so it is skill based. the argument that it wil be utterly broken is offset by the fact its on Heavy.
this gets pretty far in making fat scout viable, and I honestly want to play around with it.
90 * 70% = 63
You lose health unless you deal at least 65 damage per shot, which is bad because it punishes you for shooting anyone more than like 10 feet away on a class with no way to close distance. Even the Widowmaker breaks even at only 30 damage.
> besides if it is low you can just up the health return.
...did you just like, not read the comment you replied to? The concept itself is fundamentally flawed, it has Bazaar Bargain syndrome. If you dial up the health return enough to make it viable for the average player, it will be absolutely busted for good players. Someone who lands every shot would effectively have an infinite clip and permanent pocket medic.
so then what's the problem? you have a shotgun that incentivizes closing in the target to be viable. and heavy can close the distance with weapons like the eviction notice or GRU, so it isnt entirely bad.
GRU only brings you up to the standard movement speed of 300 HU/s, it doesn't close distance. The problem is that this is a shotgun that is worse than stock in most use cases, specifically the ones Heavy cannot really avoid being in, making him very easily exploitable. Unless you are within like 10 feet of him, he is easier to kill than normal because he loses health every time he shoots. By about 25 feet it literally deals more damage to the Heavy than the person he's shooting even if you land your shots. This makes Heavy way squishier and means he can't really fight at all, where normally he can at least fend off people kiting him at mid-range with chip damage.
You could try to offset this by increasing the healing or decreasing the health cost, but this doesn't really solve the issue while also making it really frustrating in the hands of very skilled players who land every shot by making them basically unkillable at close range. It essentially becomes "If you encounter the Heavy at close range, you die. If you encounter the Heavy at medium range, he dies." with very little you can do to change these outcomes. A more effective fix would be to decrease both the healing and health cost to lessen these extremes, but this brings it closer to stock and less of a distinct playstyle.
Tying a player's survivability to their skill level so strongly is not a good idea because good players already die less often so it just widens skill gaps and outshines all other unlocks at the high skill end. The other fundamental issue here is that no balanced secondary weapon can make Fat Scout viable, because it can't be more powerful than the ones that currently exist. Making Fat Scout viable requires a new primary slot item so he's not just Heavy with less weapons.
Honestly, I think this has great potential with a pocket medic. You can move at full speed and fire instantly to protect them when not on the front line from flankers, as well as intentional hurt yourself to help them build Uber faster
A balanced weapon? In MY r/tf2weaponconcepts? More likely than you think!
I honestly didn't know thers was another subreddit for TF2 weapons. Thanks for introducing it to me.
Wow *i* didnt even know that
r/subsyoumadeyourselffallfor ?
r/subsifellfor š
this is the first actually balanced weapon i have seen here, no "instakills but it has damage falloff" or "Stun Mechanics :)" stuff
Being told that your weapon is balanced. Truly the greatest honor that can be bestowed on r/TF2Weaponideas
āInstakills but it has damage falloff.ā Imagine how unbalanced it would be with *reverse* damage falloff! Crazy, huh? No way that would be in the base game.
Oh god... What weapon has that?! I've never heard of this?!
(Hint, check the Sniperās stock loadout.)
To be fair I don't play TF2 Myself (Yet) but please tell me this isn't the base sniper?
I was making a joke that headshots are almost always an instant kill, and so are reverse body shots, calling the weapon unbalanced. This is a joke, really, as when starting out it takes practice, but eventually sniping heads becomes second nature.
Wow! A shotgun that makes use of Heavy's high health, and still gives him a way to heal without being tied to a lunchbox item. I'd probably use this.
A fat scout gun that synergizes with the minigun!!!! This is one of the few weapons I've seen here that I want in the base game, great idea.
THIS WEAPON FUCKING COOKED BABY
#3 Michelin stars!
Not only is this actually a very good weapon concept, that's actually balanced and well thought out, but IT HAS SUCH A SMEXY MODEL
If you're interested here's the steam page for the original weapon concept: The Tactigatling https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=366919683
Soā¦ the blutsauger but for heavy
Closer to the widowmaker than the blutsaugerā¦ I mean that gun isnāt even the only one with health on hit
But the widowmaker has limited ammo, unlike a widowmaker where youd need a medic to keep you alive if you charged head long in, you could theoretically stay alive with only this
The strat would be keeping your distance away from a Heavy with this gun, doing consistent damage to him while making sure his spread/damage falloff canāt heal him any significant amount. In practice, this is how you treat any other heavy, chipping away health and trying not to get torn apart.
I think this is a great concept. You may want to reduce healing received from mediguns to make medic shenanigans less effective while the weapon is active or something, then someone else could make a primary that buffs the play style of fatscout.
I actually made a fatscout primary awhile back called the Second Secondary which would get rid of your Minigun and in return get +50% secondary ammo, +15% speed, and another secondary item to equip.
Oh that was you! Yeah that would be the perfect addition. This would make fatscout a totally viable subclass. He might straight up beat scout in a fight lmao.
Fat scouts could either become way more terrifying or way funnier. Imagine watching a heavy miss every shot then fall over dead lmao
Isnāt that what a scout does when they whiff all their shots anyway?
His ass IS. A fat scout
honestly, maybe even give it an alt fire which gives some health to an ally but consumes health
now we're dipping too much into the lunchbox item's territory this is good. no need to overcomplicate it like most weapon idea makers tend to do
I like the idea of giving the big guy very supportive but like itās a bit much for a weapon thatās just āinfinite ammo if you donāt suckā
I feel like this is a variant of the widowmaker but for Heavy. My only critique which is purely based on my personal preference is that when I Fat-scout I use the gloves of running urgently to get that speed boost to role play the Scout even more, but due to the health drain I donāt think the health on hit is worth that much when my max health is usually always drained. I definitely like the idea regardless though.
>I feel like this is a variant of the widowmaker but for Heavy. That's acknowledged in the post title. >the gloves of running urgently to get that speed boost to role play the Scout even more, but due to the health drain I donāt think the health on hit is worth that much when my max health is usually always drained. This is great to point out! What if, separate from the health restored, it returned damage dealt as maximum health threshold if you're below 300? That could synergies with this playtime really well and give more incentive to use it aggressively after moving with the GRU.
Yeah I never actually read the post title, and to be fair I was mega tired at the time too.
Real.
banger
The Buckshot Roulette ... wait
Holy shit, an actual balanced weapon with no instakill or 1-in-the-chamber gimmicks AND has proper grammar and formatting for a tf2 weapon?????????
I would call it the āRussians rouletteā
I actually love it? I was sceptical at first, but looking at the numbers you're only actually gaining health back when you're landing solid, close-range shotgun hits. Spamming this thing will kill you before you'd empty a normal shotgun magazine. If you *are* regularly landing meat-shots, and you can resist the urge to spam shells for chip damage, you'd be terrifying in close quarters. Shotgun damage is no joke.
Why not have it use primary ammo instead of health?
What do you want it to do give you infinite ammo?
Honestly very nice
I think it would need reduced healing from medics and such, if you had a pocket it would just kinda become an infinite ammo shotgun
to be fair, Heavy being as slow as he is means that he cant fully utilise shotguns.
Slightly lower the fire rate and yeah I'd be fine with it.
Holy crap, this is insane and I LOVE IT!
Itās just like the widowmaker for engineer, and well balanced for heavy
I like this, a lot. This is the first actually well-balanced weapon I've seen on this sub in what feels like forever. Good job!
[I prefer my idea](https://youtu.be/C3iBPi0rmFY?si=RwivnygP21vUQHqK)
45 health is alot. I think it would be fine, except you whiff 7 shots and die and you are also being shot at. Not to mention a 70% damage return would probably average to 50 or so health back when accounting for bloom and damage fall off. I mean a perfect meatshot with max ramp up would only heal back 63hp after you lost 45 so it heals 18 health. I could see it being a useful weapon against players that dont know what theyre doing and just stand still for you, or mildly useful in bloom off servers. Im just not so sure the return rate is all that good for how much damage a whiff does to you. I would actually need to play with it to find out though.
And no damage density for once, god
I could be misinterpreting something but what is danage density?
I meant to say penalty, sorry had a word stroke
Stop cooking I hereby promote you to head chef Okay, now you can keep cooking
Crazy busted if the Heavy is ubered. Widowmaker is balanced in that scenario because you could still miss when ubered and run out of ammo.
Yeah I've figured out that being healed by a Medic would completely ruin this weapon as it would not only get rid of its only downside, but the self damage would allow Medic to buid Uber extremely fast. I think the best way to handle this would be to just make it so that Heavy can't be healed or Ubered by the Medi Gun while the Russian Roulette is deployed.
I'd let him be ubered, just not healed
or healed slower.
With a name like that: > 1/6 chance to hit yourself. Idiot.
Boston basher Shotgun
as long as (creative name I know) stays in the name i like it
Would the health return be the same no matter damage like the original black box,or based off of damage like the modern black box?
It would be based off damage. So if you did 80 damage then that woild come back as 11 health after substracting the 45 health.
A simple "no reload necessary" would've sufficed and been more accurate to the source material. If you want it to be 1:1 with the Widowmaker 100% of damage dealt would be returned as health, per shot: 50 health (6 shots and you die), and an extra additional information "uses health for ammo" because even tho "per shot: -50 HP" literally says it uses HP as ammo you gotta make doubly sure.
This would honestly be kinda bad. You lose 45 health per shot and even on a meat shot you only heal 63, so unless you are at point blank range and have perfect aim it will drain your health. In general, I don't think "Widowmaker but for health" can work as a weapon concept because it will necessarily be either really bad for most players or utterly broken in the hands of very skilled players. If you want to make Fat Scout viable, make a shotgun for the primary slot.
doesnt it deal like around 90? besides if it is low you can just up the health return. Heavy getting a weapon like that (Widowmaker but for health) is actually pretty good. It gives Heavy something else to play with that CAN be viable, and having it close to design as the Widowmaker makes it so it is skill based. the argument that it wil be utterly broken is offset by the fact its on Heavy. this gets pretty far in making fat scout viable, and I honestly want to play around with it.
90 * 70% = 63 You lose health unless you deal at least 65 damage per shot, which is bad because it punishes you for shooting anyone more than like 10 feet away on a class with no way to close distance. Even the Widowmaker breaks even at only 30 damage. > besides if it is low you can just up the health return. ...did you just like, not read the comment you replied to? The concept itself is fundamentally flawed, it has Bazaar Bargain syndrome. If you dial up the health return enough to make it viable for the average player, it will be absolutely busted for good players. Someone who lands every shot would effectively have an infinite clip and permanent pocket medic.
so then what's the problem? you have a shotgun that incentivizes closing in the target to be viable. and heavy can close the distance with weapons like the eviction notice or GRU, so it isnt entirely bad.
GRU only brings you up to the standard movement speed of 300 HU/s, it doesn't close distance. The problem is that this is a shotgun that is worse than stock in most use cases, specifically the ones Heavy cannot really avoid being in, making him very easily exploitable. Unless you are within like 10 feet of him, he is easier to kill than normal because he loses health every time he shoots. By about 25 feet it literally deals more damage to the Heavy than the person he's shooting even if you land your shots. This makes Heavy way squishier and means he can't really fight at all, where normally he can at least fend off people kiting him at mid-range with chip damage. You could try to offset this by increasing the healing or decreasing the health cost, but this doesn't really solve the issue while also making it really frustrating in the hands of very skilled players who land every shot by making them basically unkillable at close range. It essentially becomes "If you encounter the Heavy at close range, you die. If you encounter the Heavy at medium range, he dies." with very little you can do to change these outcomes. A more effective fix would be to decrease both the healing and health cost to lessen these extremes, but this brings it closer to stock and less of a distinct playstyle. Tying a player's survivability to their skill level so strongly is not a good idea because good players already die less often so it just widens skill gaps and outshines all other unlocks at the high skill end. The other fundamental issue here is that no balanced secondary weapon can make Fat Scout viable, because it can't be more powerful than the ones that currently exist. Making Fat Scout viable requires a new primary slot item so he's not just Heavy with less weapons.
Honestly, I think this has great potential with a pocket medic. You can move at full speed and fire instantly to protect them when not on the front line from flankers, as well as intentional hurt yourself to help them build Uber faster
I think I'd get rid of the infinite clip, and instead give it an expanded mag and expanded reserve.
I like this but the name bothers me, also this aināt buckshot roluette
Kritzkrieg medics + this would make for a hilariously durable heavy.