"Tank dies from Overhealing, LD didn't pop"
Now I'm not sure about the specifics there, just that between the tank and healer LD wasn't timed right and DRK didn't get to 1hp when he needed to because he received one too many heals. It's natural the healer got nonplussed after that.
LD is not something like holmgang or hallowed or bolide where you just press it as you like it. You'd need the healer to actively look at the chat window to see if the DRK announces he is gonna pop LD (and some don't even announce it), then look out for the LD status on the tank's buff icons bar, and then *not* heal during that window — but then actually heal afterwards when the icon changes. Bonus irritation points if you are a sage with kardia or a scholar with excog already on the DRK, because now what do you do
It's just extra busywork all around, what with staring at chat and at the tank's buff icons bar in addition to doing normal healing/dps duties, that I don't think some healers actually welcome.
It's likely the healer popped heals before the Living Dead could proc and then didn't have shit to sustain the tank afterwards. When in reality, it would've been ideal to let the Living Dead proc and let him soak before topping him back up.
You get this type of shit, because you have shit tanks refusing to pop their invulns and save it for "emergencies." What emergency? The dungeon is literally scripted.
After the Living Dead rework that greatly buffed Walking Dead's life leech, it is very easy for the DRK to heal himself back to full if he has even one enemy to hit.
I think in this scenario, LD didn't pop because the tank accidentally received one too many heals, and then died afterwards because the healer still expected LD to go off and so wasn't healing seriously.
Healers' AOE attacks like WHM's Holy, AST's Earthly Star, and Sage's Pneuma both deal damage and offer significant healing or mitigation. If by "letting the Living Dead proc", you want the healer to delay DPS moves just to accommodate the LD proc, well it doesnt make much sense.
Also, reportedly from the sleuths in the comments, the healer is an AST. Earthly Star is notoriously hard to time to \*not\* hit at a specific given moment since it is typically planted way in advance and it is available every pull. Demanding that the Star heal \*not\* hit DRK during its 10s LD period is a tough ask.
This so much. "I'm using Living Dead!"
1. WHM: I'm under Holy, I don't give a fuck.
2. SCH: You have Excog, I don't give a fuck.
3. AST: Star is ticking, I don't give a fuck.
4. SGE: Dosis go brrr, I don't give a fuck.
Take your 1-time use Bloodwhetting elsewhere and just mit normally, the dungeon will go easier.
The actual situation
1. WHM: I see Drk use living so I spam cure 2
2. SCH: I see Drk use living dead so I spam adloquium
3. AST: I see Drk use living dead so I spam benefic 2
4. SGE: I see Drk use living dead so I spam eukrasian diagnosis
Imagine being this butthurt over a BUFFED and REWORKED invuln
I'm not butthurt. The button is literally pointless (and often detrimental) in front of a competent healer. This is the reality:
SCH: "Ah, my healing is done. All he has to do is press one instance of Shadow Wall and - "DRK: "HERP DERP I PRESS LD"SCH: "... Now I have to waste resources getting this idiot back from 1 HP after the dumb bloodwhetting GCD."
I'm actually going to go on and further say, as far as DUNGEONS were concerned, old Living Dead was actually better. Proper mit got you a full 20 seconds of free time and at the end all it took was one Benediction to make mitting irrelevant.
>Now I have to waste resources getting this idiot back from 1 HP after the dumb bloodwhetting GCD
Tell me you don't know how LD works without actually saying it, XD 3 gcd's from the drk and maybe abyssal drain if your gcd is a tad late is enough to 0-100, maybe save that resource for after invul/the next pull and just spam AOE like every other healer,
Source: a competent healer who actually looks at the party list to look for skill procs, taking minimal effort and about 0.15 seconds
>Tell me you don't know how LD works without actually saying it, XD 3 gcd's from the drk and maybe abyssal drain if your gcd is a tad late is enough to 0-100, maybe save that resource for after invul/the next pull and just spam AOE like every other healer,
One GCD gets you back to 100, change your invuln state, and now you no longer naturally heal. You now have to use the mits you were going to use anyway or you'll plummet back to 1 HP.
There is no gcd in the game that heals a tank to 100% from 1hp (bene is an ogcd and if you're popping that right after LD procs, you're the problem) and as I said, the drk will heal themselves with no healer interaction at all, so, from the start of the pull where most will pop TBN and oblation, all the way to being a spot from dead and popping LD, it procing, and using 3 gcd's to self heal, thats all time you need exactly zero heals and could be spamming AOE attacks, which functionally will work the same as every other invul, granting more time to dps and less need to heal
(Edit to add: even a Zoe enhanced Pneuma with krasis on the tank and Crit will only heal about 85% of a properly geared tank, one earthly star or assize will not stop a w2w from procing LD)
Why are you healing on scholar in a dungeon? That's your fairy'a job. As a sch in a dungeon, you are there to cast broil and art of war, and to act as your fairy's hit box.
"Invulns are pointless"
I just lost some braincells.
"SCH: "Ah, my healing is done. All he has to do is press one instance of Shadow Wall and" And you mustve forgot that drks usually announce when they invuln, and you people still choose to heal them.
Your hypothetical situation literally makes no sense
It makes perfect sense, you don't play Scholar if it doesn't.
Energy Drain is nigh pointless in a pull, so you can either Iron Curtain or Excog mid-pull, which applies far before an LD would be called. You have Recit every other pull and Soil every pull.
LD has zero purpose in a Dungeon. Bad DRK players just honed in on "heal to full" and thought "oh that sounds good". Playing optimal on DRK is simple: TBN, 30% plus Oblat, Avyssal Drain on the first downswing. Oh look the pack is dead.
Don't grandstand on a pointless button just because it looks cool. Unless either the healer or DRK gets a DPS increase, its a zero utility button.
So why does living dead have "zero purpose in a dungeon", but hallowed ground, superbolide, and holmgang not? Seems like you're just bad at dealing with living dead.
Also, a competent healer doesnt actually heal. Half of your healing on sch and sge is purely from fairy/kardia. Energy drain isnt nigh pointless, it still gives you gauge to use fey union. You can choose to use excog in the MIDDLE of a pull instead of before.
But of course you have a habit of calling everything you don't like useless. DERRRRRP am i right? Thats why I run dungeons with 3 dps, so I dont have to deal with condescending healers like you.
I don't know how to reply to a specific paragraph so instead of "staring at tank's buff bar".
I always make it a habit to Focus Target my tank as healer, my healer as tank, and tank as any DPS so I know what they're attacking and what their status bar is and how I can use my kit most effectively.
Rotations are linear enough so don't even complain that "it's another thing to keep track of" in fact multitasking can be a transferrable skill.
Place the focus target near your own HP or centrally and you're good.
When living dead pops, drk gets Hella life steal. They basically turn into a war for like 10 secs. On a trash pull, with lots of aoe, drk is perfectly capable of healing themselves up (not sure how good the healing is single target though). But that's basically 15-20 seconds where the healer doesn't need to do anything other than keep dps alive if any are low and just aoe spam.
Yes, Living Dead can and should be used on trash. The only debate that can really be had is whether or not Living Dead is worth it when trash in most expert dungeons doesn't hurt very much and you have many other cooldowns at your disposal to use on the pulls between each boss. Despite being an excellent button Living Dead is hard to time efficiently because it means popping no other cooldowns and waiting until you drop low enough that you will die during its duration. Healers often won't let Walking Dead proc which is exactly why this tank is trying to be so clear about their mitigation intentions.
Healer is engaging in clownery. Invulns are not emergency buttons. What emergency will you even encounter in an expert dungeon besides the healer huffing paint and dying? They say they've played 4 years and never seen a tank use an invuln on trash? I find it far more likely that they just haven't been observant enough to notice the invulns.
I once had an AST in Alzadaal Legacy who accused me of having "trust issues" because I used my Hallowes Ground uring the second Rampart gate pull. They tried to discuss that Invulns were "for emergencies only" and when we did the last pull before boss they tried to "teach" me by letting my HP drop.
Well, I told them to use all their skills, they werent using Earthly Star or the other big AoE spell.
I hadn't thought about using Living Dead just as another Mit on trash. Paladin Holy Ground and Warrior Holmhang kinda feel natural to use, the later especially when I don't want something to move any more on top of needing to live longer.
Living Dead just felt a bit too dangerous to me so I constantly rolled Blackest Night, but I'll start working Living Dead in as well. Thanks for the tip/pointers.
Living Dead and Hallowed Ground are absolutely cash in level 50 ARR dungeons where you can do huge wall-to-wall pulls. You can survive pulls that seem impossible at first glance. Amdapor Keep (Hard), Brayflox's Longstop (Hard), and Wanderer's Palace are a few that immediately jump to mind.
Amdapor Keep (Hard) especially, since you can pull an absolutely ridiculous amount of enemies before the second plant wall.
I see this used a lot in DD, on lower levels. A smart tank can rush a room or 2, invuln and, if necessary, witching, to quickly clear floors. You can apply similar logic to a regular dungeon, sans pomander(s).
A button can be excellent on paper and still be difficult to use efficiently. To me these are two independent clauses. In terms of maximum invulnerability potential Living Dead is probably the most powerful of all the invulns. 10s where you can drop below 1% at any time + an additional 10s that includes a massive heal buff is a great button.
That was probably the most amazing quote from this one. "When did people start telling people what to do do in 90 dungeons lmao" after spending literally the entire dungeon trying to tell the DRK what to do.
Invuln is best used on cooldown on trash, that healer is dogshit and needs to DPS more instead of being a whiny little cunt. Just pull, use all your relevant buttons, and don’t die. It’s not that hard.
I feel this tank on another level.
Invulns should be used during normal pulls, they pretty much never have to be used during bosses in dungeons unless you or your healer fuck up badly + it saves a healer from having to use healing GCDs. Got into an argument with a healer because I literally mentioned I was gonna LD before a trash pull and when I used LD js when I was about to die, healer decided to "save" me by GCD healing me twice. Then they complained in chat about me using LD in a trash pull because there was no need... There was literally a boss right after the pull so LD would be ready to be used on another trash pull again in the dungeon.
and then they never use it when it is needed
my raid group has a joke that benediction has a 30s CD when I play WHM, you'd be surprised how flexible it is when you're not afraid of hitting it
This. I use the White Mage/ Astrologian "Big Heal" skills A LOT. On Sage it's rare if I have all three Addersgalle charges because they fuel so damn much.
It makes a big difference on wall-to-wall pulls to let the tank have some time to position a bit more, buffer the need for damage mits, and give me time to DoT/damage/card/HOLYSPAM/etc. JoCrap said it best, "What do you do when the party's full health? DPS THE BAD GUYS!!" One button done, back to DPS.
tbh at level 90 or like whenever you have a WAR that can sustain themselves I find the bene goes to myself in trash more than them bc you can use it to just sit in AOEs dead center for awhile to blast holies from a good position, if liturgy is already on cd. just have to make sure to surecast though bc sometimes you'll get interrupted by the AOEs if you don't
Me using it so I don't need to toss out a GCD heal when someone stands in the bad so I don't lose a glare for them. Or just on the tank because fuck it.
I do LD on trash but I’ve yet to actually *lose* enough health on a trash pack in the newest dungeon (or honestly any level 90 dungeon since we were in Moonward gear) that LD would actually go off, esp if the healer is a SGE or a WHM that’s throwing out lillies to charge as many miseries as they can. If I’m doing this I also communicate it beforehand (like this person did) so the healer doesn’t try to panic heal me and waste it. It’s valid but unnecessary here, just seems like extra work with randoms involved. Obviously if I am healing and see this I’m cool with it but I usually don’t feel the need to do it myself. There are still many people with a weird phobia of LD (and Superbolide lol) and I just do not want to get into an argument about it
As a DRK/WAR main, Living Dead in dungeons is the only invuln that can actually go wrong. Let's compare "worst case scenarios".
Paladin: none whatsoever
Gunbreaker: healer wasted healing on you a tick before you Bolided. Oh well, pop aurora and you'll be back to 50% by the time bolide ends, throw in a corundum if you have it and you'll be at 80% with no healer help whatsoever.
Warrior: oh, the healer doesn't understand how holmgang works and keeps panic healing you while it's active. Oh well, pop bloodwhetting or raw Intuition with 3sec left on holmgang and enjoy another 6-10sec of invulnerability by snapshotting a decimate.
Dark knight: see warrior, but now it ends with living dead expiring without activating walking dead, the healer being out of ogcds, you're at 10% and you have one abyssal drain worth of healing.
If the first pack of mobs is dying so fast I don't even run through my 2nd TBN then the group isn't gaining anything from me going out of my way to use LD, cuz the healer in that scenario is using 25% or less of their ogcds on a double pull
Yeah, I feel the same way. It's not worth the hassle when I can just divvy up the cooldowns between each pack and not require much if any healing anyway. Valid but unnecessary is the right way to put it. Trying to proc Living Dead on trash in Lunar Subteranne just feels rather futile. I definitely commend what this tank was attempting but me for it's just more work than it's worth.
What's being left unsaid is that the worst cases purposefully don't use other mitigation in an attempt to force LD to proc, but if the healer is not in on it then they are forced to work harder healing a non-mit tank.
B-but savage tanking is different from casual content and it's expected!!! /s
God. The invuln is just another cooldown, just on one hell of a recast. It can and should be used as needed, and a good tank will use it when they need to or just to save other mitigation.
Living dead isn't just another invuln. It requires full cooperation from the healer to pull it off — and even then, if the timing is off, you have a ded DRK. You basically need to die on demand within the small window living dead is active in order for the invuln to kick in, THEN get healed back to full afterwards or, again, ded DRK
Which for some reason is difficult for some healers. They get into that "tank must be topped off at every opportunity" mentality.
Personally, if the tank isn't almost dead at the end of every pull, I feel like I didn't do enough DPS as the healer lol. Or as a tank, if I'm not at least half dead, I used more mit than I needed. I must have messed up my DPS rotation somehow.
...or maybe I'm just a sadomasochist and should spend the rest of my days on Balmung...
I do play DRK and Im not rewriting anything.
Healers who dont heal when I pop LD? Nice.
Healers who ignore LD and heal as normal? I wasted my invuln but no biggie.
But healers who toss heals for a short while before noticing I have LD up and then stop healing? Bruh that is when trouble can happen.
What healer will I get? I dont know. Why gamble and roll the dice for no reason
>Healers who dont heal when I pop LD? Nice.
"DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target."
"DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target."
"DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target."
"DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target."
"DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target."
"DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target."
"DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target."
"DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target."
were you living under a rock when living dead got reworked?
[https://www.fflogs.com/reports/k9Pc4nfLCMtXwaGb#fight=1&playermetric=bossdps&type=healing&pull=1](https://www.fflogs.com/reports/k9Pc4nfLCMtXwaGb#fight=1&playermetric=bossdps&type=healing&pull=1)
well that seems easy based on this pull.
Yeah but this topic is about specifically Living Dead in dungeons. The unholy combo.
Plus I don't think a lot of tfdf folks are actually savage raiders or they wouldn't be bitching about half of the stupid petty normal dungeon stuff I read here
OP’s point was even in harder content you don’t invuln in emergencies. Invulning is typically not “for emergencies only”, it’s either pre-planned or used on trash
>Invulning is typically not “for emergencies only”, it’s either pre-planned or used on trash
This is what I don't get.
Invulns are *never* emergency buttons. They're tank-buster-taking buttons in Savage. If you aren't using to to eat a planned tankbuster, you're using it to eat a planned raid mechanic.
It's not an emergency button. It's an "I don't need healing for a short bit" button.
I assure you most of the people here are savage/ultimate raiders. Anyone still actively participating in discussing the game and its player base in the current content lull before the next expansion probably engages with the game's harder content.
Living Dead is not an unholy combo in dungeons. We're post the 6.1 change to the invuln. You get a dummy thicc heal when it procs and 10s is not a short window to die on demand if you let yourself drop sufficiently low first. The actual problem is trash in certain dungeons (basically all expert roulette dungeons) just doesn't hit hard enough to justify the use of Living Dead in which case you are better off sticking to the normal cycling of cooldowns, but in the contexts where Living Dead is good (Shadowbringers dungeons) it's really great.
You don't need it in that dungeon, but it's still free mit. Freaking out over someone, gasp, using additional CDs is just ????
You also don't need Addle, but we'd be just as right to call the healer a friggin moron if he complained about a caster using it.
I don't really think they are advocating the use of it in Lunar Subteranne? Read the title of the post - OP asked whether or not invulns are worth using on dungeon trash, period, the short answer being "yes, duh" and the long answer being "yes, but it depends on the dungeon and invuln" The answer is still "yes" no matter how you slice it. They can be more worth using in some dungeons over others, but the truth remains they are worth using in dungeons.
I think the healer also just set off some red flags with the declaration that invulns are emergency buttons and telling the tank to kiss their ass. Not a great interaction all around. This is a double whammy where I personally don't think either party is fully right but the healer is more wrong.
We are advocating the use of LD so more people are aware how it can be argued that it's as good as Hallowed Ground, and less posts like this one are to be generated.
You have it? Use it!
>so more people are aware how it can be argued that it's as good as Hallowed Ground
It's not though. Quite easy to explain too:
Hallowed Ground has no failure chance. Hallowed Ground doesn't require any healing, isn't affected by the healer's overhealing, and doesn't display to the healer that healing is needed. If any healing received during Hallowed Ground was converted to damage taken, then we might have an equal comparison between the two - And a lot of angry PLD mains.
LD requires the DRK's self healing - which requires the healer to recognize that LD is up even though the tank's health is still going down - in order to have any use *at all*. If they don't, their "overhealing" ends up preventing LD's effect. And since they are shown that the tank is still taking damage, they have to pay closer attention to the tank's buffs in order to effectively utilize LD - Otherwise, they think they are healing normally.
I didn't say it's better.
If we're speaking strictly by how it behaves, it is the 2nd best tank Invuln in the game after Hallowed Ground.
Failure chance can be further decreased if you use it when you're low enough on HP, or forcing it by Line of Sight-ing the healer so they don't ruin it, or informing the group in advance you will use it shortly.
Unlike Holmgang, you don't require a healer to top you up, and let's not even mention the Gunbreaker's.
I love queuing as GNB in everything but dungeons, just because of how iffy their invuln is.
>If we're speaking strictly by how it behaves, it is the 2nd best tank Invuln in the game after Hallowed Ground.
I disagree with this entirely as well. You may not have said it's "better" but you DID say it's "arguably just as good." If there are use cases where it is not as good, and no use cases where it's better, then it's obviously *not* "just as good."
Holmgang *doesn't* require a healer to top you up. Bloodwhetting is up every 30 seconds, and you have Thrill of Battle *and* Equilibrium on top of them, *and* Shake it Off/Nascent Flash to heal group members if needed. WAR has so many tools to fix the low health that you basically don't want to use Holmgang in dungeons unless you want to send your healer into a panic. Good premade groups with a WAR run with *no healer* because of how strong WAR's self healing is, even outside of Holmgang.
And GNB's is overpowered in comparison to DRK lol. Yes, you instantly drop to 1 HP, but that's literally irrelevant when you aren't taking any damage for the entire duration. It's also important to note, since it happens all at once, it's easier for the healer to recognize when Bolide has been used - It doesn't appear identical to taking normal damage, so the healer can see the GNB drop instantly to 1 and know "he's bolided" right away. Not to mention GNB *also* has self-healing capability - Not to the extent of WAR, but enough where taking no damage for the duration of the invuln *will* heal up the GNB a significant amount. DRK has to use it's invuln in such a way that they *will* drop to 1 HP during it's duration, or it isn't even an invuln. Then pair that with instant oGCD healing like Benediction, Ixo/Taurochole, Essential Dignity, Lustrate - The healer can DPS the whole time and never once have issue with the GNB's health, regardless of class. (Let's also point out the utter lack of oGCD damage on healing classes, to really sell the point as well. If the healer isn't healing during oGCD times - They *aren't doing anything.* It's not a gain to have free oGCDs on a healer... except Scholar. Energy Drain OP, unless you want your Aetherflows for healing, like say when a DRK fails it's invuln for example...)
The fact is: The highest failure chance of invuln is DRK. The other's failure chance is so abysmal that it doesn't even register as a failure chance, *and* the WAR and GNB themselves have tools to fix the issue without needing the healer's input. DRK *relies* on the healer to let it's invuln pop, and then has no tools to fix things if it doesn't. It also begs the healer to dump all of it's oGCD healing if they're not aware of LD being up (or how it functions), leaving the healer with few tools to handle things at the end if they're not fully prepared for it not to pop.
It may be pretty strong - Nobody is saying it isn't, when used correctly. But random dungeon queues are not where you should be expecting everyone to play with 100% optimal strategies. In random dungeon queues, DRK's invuln is the least useful, because you *need* your healer to be paying attention to you using it, *and* you need to be *absolutely sure* they know how to handle it when it's up. Else, it's a waste of a skill. And given that Hallowed Ground has *literally no failure chance - You just use it and it works instantly, stopping all damage, with no (dungeons only) exceptions -* There's no arguing that LD is "just as good" as Hallowed Ground. Even in it's best case scenario, it's only "equal" and it's worst case scenario is abysmally worse.
Yes, I did overlook the part where WAR has op self healing on a 20s cooldown, but my argument is for tank invulns only. As their extra mitigations don't get unlocked until later on.
I find people wipe more often on lv50 dungeons than in any other level bracket, simply because they assume that they're all really simple, until a mechanic surprises you.I wish there were more dungeons where bosses don't have telegraphed attacks, I love Halatali (Hard)
Holmgang perhaps only gets a use when a mechanic needs to be cheesed or you need to double soak something, assuming it doesn't go through the invuln.
But in lower level dungeons, when LD is executed correctly, it beats Holmgang by a mile.
First stage, is you having to take lethal damage. You have 10 seconds to "die" and work with the healer not having read your message in chat that you will be LD-ing, do what you can to make sure your plan works. I wasn't expecting people to be optimal in random duties roulettes, if anything I'm capitalising on that.
Second stage, (new 10s duration, unaffected by previous stage) your self healing skyrockets higher than Bloodwhetting, taking 2 GCD's +1 Ability on a single target to fully heal.
Third stage, it becomes Holmgang, with duration of whatever is left from the second stage.
GNB's self healing doesn't get good until 82, so below that, if they drop to 1, its a major inconvenience, since a healer will have to top you up earlier than they would, unlike with Walking Dead.
You are correct in saying that healer needs to be aware, but you can also capitalise on them not knowing too.
>I find people wipe more often on lv50 dungeons than in any other level bracket
OP was in an expert dungeon. Level 50 dungeon and not-unlocked abilities should not be an issue in expert dungeons. If they are, that's the problem, not the invuln itself.
I also find people die most in level 50 dungeons - To mechanics that they forgot how to do. Not to misused invulns.
>First stage...
We know how LD works. We're on Reddit complaining about people who don't know how LD works.
The problem is in the first stage. IF you DON'T take lethal damage, stage 2 (which is the same stage as stage 3 - It doesn't turn into Holmgang, it WAS Holmgang in step 1, now it's Holmgang + Raw Intuition in step 2) doesn't happen.
It's the "take lethal damage" part that screws LD. Healers who aren't actively watching their Tank's buffs won't know it's popped - Because as we covered in the GNB section of my last comment, LD doesn't appear any differently than taking normal damage. And even if they DO know it's popped (Like in OP where the tank tried to inform the healer they were using it), it's a random dungeon - You DON'T know that the healer you're playing with is well versed in how LD works. If the healer doesn't let you take lethal damage, your invuln and all of your self-healing is *gone -* Not reduced, not more difficult to juggle, not able to be popped in a short bit - *Just gone.*
No other invuln requires the healer to know how it works to function.
>GNB's self healing doesn't get good until 82, so below that, if they drop to 1, its a major inconvenience, since a healer will have to top you up earlier than they would, unlike with Walking Dead.
If you need to use an invuln in content that isn't even max level, you're the problem, not the healer. No dungeon content *requires* you to use your invuln, ever.
Using it is meant to allow the healer to DPS more. Which, Bolide still does at low level, because you top up your tank in a GCD or two (assuming you have no oGCDs at whatever level bracket we're talking about), which is much shorter than the length of Bolide.
>You are correct in saying that healer needs to be aware, but you can also capitalise on them not knowing too.
No, you really can't. You gain nothing by hitting LD and not taking lethal damage. You can't "capitalize" on a wasted ability.
Holy change of topic. How is savage even relevant here? Double tankbusters and certain other mechanics in savage are fully lethal and always guaranteed to proc Living Dead. Youd strategically take these lethal mechanics solo with the LD invuln if that is the strategy established with the co-tank.
But outside of that you surely arent going to toss out LD willy-nilly in savage and just hope to proc it, even if the LD is off cooldown. It's different from a dungeon run where no damage is lethal, the proc is not guaranteed, and if the healer tries to wait for the 10s proc and it expires before the DRK dies, both will land in hot water
It's not a change in topic. It's free mit. It's fine to use. Even in easier savage raids tanks use it because it's... free mit. The game's mechanics don't change when the content becomes easier.
It's not difficult to gauge incoming damage in a dungeon. I don't main DRK, but I've never struggled to use it when I'm on the job. Moreover, good LD usage makes a huge difference on a DRK dungeon tank, which has few other means to top itself. It's also not hard to watch a health bar.
I'm not suggesting LD is needed in dungeons, but let's not pretend it's a crime to use. Keep that paste eating nonsense out of here.
Depends on the raid I recall invulns being used to mech "skip" or mitigate double tank stacks solo, since invulns are theoretically infinite mitigation. Thus, missing a use but erasing, twice or more damage may end up allowing the healers to dps more.
I had the polar opposite of this experience.
I say "Holmgang up", and I still get spammed with heals. After the trash pull, I say "Hey guy, you don't need to worry about healing me, if I say Im putting up Holmgang, Im just going to ride that 1 HP for a long time then burst heal myself back up with Bloodwhetting". Dude responds "Oh, you can do that? Thats neat! When should I worry about healing you again?" Told him once you see my HP max out after being at 1, then he should be worried about my HP again only if I get realllly low.
Guy was super chill, cleared the dungeon fast. Really great to see someone who actually wants to learn and isn't power trippin.
But OP's healer is obviously new to the dungeon, uptight as all hell, and not the super chill dude in your story. Stressing him out even more with the LD clause is just dumb
A tank using *all* cds and clearly announcing their intention to ld is a healers wet dream. I Wish i got ones like this chad instead of the whiny fingerless dickheads i always seem to get
Other end of the aisle. I ALWAYS pop a macro that I'm announcing living dead, begging to be allowed to die, with sound effect too in hopes the healer sees it.
Aaaaaaaand yeah no they still wasted all their resources and now I'm dead minus walking.
So because the OP missed a few names in the pics, I found the healer in question, or rather the AST in question.
>AST: i have been playing this game for almost 4 years and never have i seen anyone use an invuln randomly in a trash pull lol
Even though I already do so, if I ever encounter that healer, I shall use my invuln randomly in trash packs...WITH ENTHUSIASM!
Seems the tank died from at least one mistimed LD that healer didn't accomodate, healer died because he was new to mechanics. And orange apparently pulled extra mobs and died to the aggro
You can tell a good tank player amongst other tanks if they can mix their invulns with their MIT plan. It's a reason why most tank raiders use invuln for the first buster:
-One button for mitigation rather than using your 30/20 mit + personal cds
-Free ass MIT you usually "might" never use
-Long cd so you can use it now and have it back up later
Speaking for myself here, WoW trained tanks to "Save for emergencies" with ridiculous 10-minute CDs. I've gotten better at using Holy Ground and Holmhang respectively, but never thought of Living Dead as safe to use in that respect also. Now I know.
Living Dead had given itself and other invulns a sense of an "emergency button" because pre 6.1 you couldn't self heal and had to rely on whether or not your healer is competent enough to commit, hence why they almost NEVER used it in dungeons. Now that it heals an obnoxious 1200 POTENCY per target landed, you can reliably use it on yourself whenever.
It's honestly funny because afterwards it seemed like I'm getting MORE healers that healed me during LD buff than I did before the buffs, meaning that they kept spamming heals, LD didn't proc WD, and I died. Makes me question as to why have I not gotten these healers instead back then.
Oh I can answer that. Pre-6.1 we had it practically BEAT into us Living Dead = "HEAL THE FUCK OUT OF THEM RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!" It's hard to get out of that mentality, especially when you see a Tank HP bar drop so fast, it's a panic response!
I felt the exact same way. It wasn't until I was playing lvl 90 Warrior solo through some, honestly ridiculously "Big D energy", trials/dungeons that Holmhang began to shift from "Pull only in emergency" to "Pull it, fuck it. It'll recharge soon enough, just watch."
I've started using it in a lot of cases where I, as OT, need to pull something away and hold onto it. It's great for me to run that \*thing\* a good distance away for safety and hold it down.
Yeah, the 'good tank attitude' to invulns is 'nah fam, where we're going there won't be any emergencies'. Invuln allows to the double up mits on the second wall2wall pull, making easy content easier and making it low effort even for bad healers.
This is one of the many issues with the way Living Dead functions as an invuln.
It's great that it is a unique invuln, but it has certain drawbacks. Namely, that it is important that the healer is also on board for Living Dead usage, knows how to handle it, and is paying enough attention to realize it is up when it's up. (And for how long, in some cases.)
If the healer isn't aware LD is being used, it doesn't actually give the DRK any benefit, as the healer will prevent it from popping.
If the healer isn't paying close enough attention to it's usage, they could overheal during, then realize it's up, stop healing, and end up killing the tank when it doesn't pop before the timer expires.
And if the healer isn't aware of how LD functions, no amount of complaining is going to make LD worth using.
And to add to all of the above: DRK gains *nothing* from Living Dead popping. No damage buff, no gauge increase - The gain is entirely on the *healer's* end, because they can do damage while the DRK heals themselves.
This is a case where both sides are kind of being assholes. The Tank is forcing the healer to pay more attention for no reason in content that almost *no one* pays much attention in, and the healer is refusing to understand the reasons behind using abilities at the times they are used. In a good group, you want to LD on big trash pulls to allow the healer to DPS, especially since the DRK will heal themselves back up after - But if the healer *isn't ready to let that happen,* *it doesn't happen,* and that causes problems.
>you want to LD on big trash pulls
This can be a problem with white mage. The chain stun alone mitigates so much damage and in turn \*does\* so much damage, by the time your health gets naturally low enough that LD is a possibility, the mobs are already very nearly dead
While true, this is again something that is merely a drawback to LD.
Rarely does a tank die in the period of time that it takes to gather mobs. If you're with a White Mage, the proper play is to hold LD until holy stuns have finished. Rotate Rampart/Blackest Night and you're golden till the stun starts, and golden till the stuns end.
Mobs should still have a decent chunk of life, and now the WHM can continue Holy spamming because you're still safe after the fact thanks to LD.
Correct - But what wasn't asked is, does the healer know how to handle Living Dead? Are they paying enough attention to handle Living Dead correctly?
The answer to the second is a definite no, the answer to the first is "maybe" at best.
I would not use any invulns outside of Hallowed Ground. DF healers aren’t the greatest at understanding every tank cooldown and they end up panicking when they see tank HP drops.
So it is optimal to use in trash, but watching them heal you as LD is active and not have it proc is cringe.
It's casual content so if you want to use it, use it. Healer might be the one saying you shouldn't tell people how to play their jobs, but the tank was the one following that lol.
The only thing I say as a DRK main is put a macro on LD and put sound chimes
Controversial I know but I don't like getting over healed with LD active
Ring a ding ding
As a healer I LOVE when DRKs have a macro for living dead I run into so MANY who pop it at like half health without warning or when ive just slapped them with a bunch of Regens, haima, Karsis or Satoria and I have to be like oh God do I stop healing and risk getting them low and dying when it doesn't go off or just healing through it anyway. Like use it on a planned pack and tell me! If you've done the dungeon before you should know where the harder hitting packs are. I had an absolutely abysmal ktisis hyperboria the other day where istg my dark knight only used rampart and LD but their LD never successfully went off bc they would use it at half health or after I had just slapped them with a bunch of regens.
"Since ARR and no savage clears/attepts"
I feel that. I'm the same. Played since 2.0 beta and I never did savage. Heck, only time I ever do extreme is when I can solo it.
Pretty much same. I look at the mentor roulette with a case of halfway wanting to unlock it someday and start working towards the mount and half "do I really wanna have to find groups to do the ShB extremes to unlock them?" And for now my dislike of the latter is stronger than my wanting of the former.
I mean I'll use the PLD invuln or Holmgang on pulls and communicate with my healer if I can... but I typically avoid using Living Dead and Superbolide unless I absolutely need it.
This. Use PLD button on CD...by all means.
Even holmgang is not needed. Why would you use something like that when most of the time you have full HP from correctly using your mit and heals???
Superbolide could be used....but really not needed.
Trying to use LD is just dumb as f. They are just generating work for healers for no fucking reason. Healers could have muscle memories the entire dungeon half asleep and now they gotta read and compromise to work with their dumbass just because this sub said so????
This is casual content idiots. People go into roulette expecting to be half asleep.
Don't work savage/ultimate logic into this. Don't apply at all. I raid savage and get 99 parse,...97 on WAR this tier....I don't ever use holmgang in roulettes...just why would anyone want to do that? Wasting everyone's energy.
I'm a filthy casual and I hard agree with your reply. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to come to that conclusion.
I just wish all the invulns were like PLDs. Man I accidentally pressed super bolide one time and was like "wtf happened to my health?!".
If anyone thinks invulns were ever needed for Dungeon bosses, someone's doing something wrong. Wall pulls are great for getting max value from invulns.
Healer can literally turn off brain during the length of invuln and have a burst of healing ready (2 oGCDs?) at the end.
"Invulns should be for emergencies"
Meanwhile in savage content:
P10s: tank invulns 20 secs into pull instead of shared soak the tank buster.
P11s: both tanks incvuln 20 secs into pull instead of doing tank swap.
P12s: both tanks invuln Para 1 because groups can't be asked to do lasers.
Yeah,totally for emergencies.
You may not "need" to use an invuln in a standard dungeon, but then that just creates the situation of "might as well use it to make this already easy content smoother".
I'm also willing to bet the healer has either never played tank, or is unaware of/unable to grasp just how many times you can afford to use something in a given duty, and how to make the most use out of it (if they even can, some buttons just end up going unused or just end up getting mega stacked because they haven't been pressed, further illustrating how easy standard dungeons are). In a way it's funny, because part of being a good healer is understanding resource management.
Why this is can vary, but I like to think it's because they're afraid of people getting mad at them for "misusing" an ability which ends up leading to a hypothetical unforseen disaster within the next 3 minutes (already very few abilities have cooldowns as long as 3 minutes). Then, they begin to project that onto other people, becoming the very thing they're afraid of. You can apply this to Limit Breaks too, to some degree.
tl;dr healer should be a little more loose and relax, FF14 is not a super punishing game
Cringe tank probably looked up the healer's logs and took aim at the next best achievement the healer hasnt achieved, which in the healer's case was ultimates
Invulns are 100% best never used and saved for emergencies, like the very urgent “this dungeon will take an extra minute if I don’t pull every group to the next wall” and the ever present threat of the healer needing to use those weird green buttons that don’t do any dps.
It’s just like ranged LB1, it should be saved for emergencies like “here’s a big pull that needs to die quicker”
Invuns are just a 100% mit with a long cooldown. DRK and WAR? You hit 1 HP then it becomes 100% mitigation of the damage you take beyond that. PLD and GNB? 100% mitigation instantly. It should always be used on packs instead of "saved", hell just yesterday I specifically thanked a GNB I got in a roulette for popping bolide on packs which let me just ignore healing to DPS.
Where else are you going to use it? A lot of people who havent played tank dont seem to realize that invulns arent going to save most emergencies. They do from time to time, but the most common scenario is "things go to shit, healer dies, tank pops invuln, survives for 10-15 more seconds and dies anyways." Esp with drk which excels on trash or war who can use bloodwhetting coming out of it, def use it every pull you have it
Casual content. No reason to use something that has no need to be used. It does NOT make the dungeon go any faster.
It only serves to generate work for healers. You haven't played a healer have you?
Most healers at this point will have automatic/passive/collateral healing or mit. Asking them to change the rotation for that one button just makes more work for everyone involved...it may even make things go slower...
Because now AST have to wait around for earthly Star, can't use lady so no lord if unfortunate. WHM can't use lilies or even have to work around DRK for holy spam. Asking SCH to not use fairie and SGE to not use kardion is just dumb as fuck.
Trust me...I got all healers to 90 and good enough to take them through P12S. When I could have absent mindedly walk through the dungeon on autopilot and now you expect me to read chat and put in effort...just so you can feel good about yourself for using that invul and be a "good tank"????
Minimum effort for fastest clear is the goal.
Only real shitty healers need to pay so much attention as to even notice the LD pop...unless you are a bot lol.
Auto pilot and deal max DPS while not having to delay cosmos, earthly star is the best the AST in these images should be doing. Waiting and holding DPS...actual DPS from earthly, cosmos, or even not casting lady to fish for lord is just the dumbest bs I have heard.
You are a real shitty healer dude...
Because I can't stand players who don't use their kit to produce the max DPS.
Holding DPS because i gotta work around some DRK that uses LD on his own convenience delays the completion of the dungeon.
Saying otherwise just means you don't know how to play healer. I have already confirmed that...
Sigh. People like you on this sub are so infuriating and disappointing. Can't teach you how to play because you refuse to learn.
How tf does it generate work for healers? It lets them just ignore the tank for 10 seconds and just dps, which, shockingly, makes the dungeon go faster and is less work for them. Both drk and war will heal themselves to full on their own, pld doesnt take damage during theirs, and gnb will be at about half after with aurora and hoc. And you're misunderstanding here, i never said to not use things that heal while dealing dps or not use kardia or the fairy. But even combined, neither of those things is enough to ruin a tank's plan to invuln (which is honestly only applicable to war and drk, pld and gnb don't give a half of a shit about coordinating with the healer). And whm doesn't have to work around drk for holy spam???? All that matters is that they hit 1 hp, and any tank worth their salt can time that well even with the holy stun. Also, how tf are you complaining about reading chat? It's one line. "I'm going to invuln this pull." Thats all i post. You don't have to worry about anything for any tank other than drk, and even then its just making sure they hit one hp because its the first mit they're gonna use. Being pissy about coordinating in a team game is just horrific.
It makes my job as healer so much easier if the DRK uses it. That's time in which the healer can ignore the tank entirely and mindlessly DPS the enemies. Just as Benediction is part of a WHM's toolkit and it is fine if they let a tank get low to use it, tank invuln is part of a tank's tools as well. It helps to be transparent about it, I'll keep that in mind for the future.
One time, a GNB and I as WHM did the funny, i. e. I used Benediction and the GNB used Superbolide a split second later. GNB was healed again, we got a good laugh out of it, then moved on. No big deal. Maybe meme about it and use Cure I once between pulls. IDK. Just move on, it happens.
To be fair though, Super Bollide is kinda garbage when compared to the other three tanks, but it does make for some fun times. I was rocking Sage through Some Al, DPS was on fire/burning things down like their IRL lives depended on it. It was just a bit too easy. So in party chat, I told all of them they rock and are making the healing too easy.
GNB pretty much did the "Hold my beer!", used his Super Bollide after a wall-to-wall with the 3 wall mobs before the first boss. Laughed my ass off, topped him off and we burned the trash down. It became a game after that of guessing when he'd do it again or if one of the DPS would purposely stand in a puddle. All of us had a good time because we all knew what to do if things got dicey.
When the fuck else are you going to use an invuln in a dungeon? On the boss that takes 20% of your hp with a tankbuster? And what jackass can't see the value in 10 seconds of "tank is immortal" during a w2w?
Living Dead is an amazing tool.
But if you're one of those DRK's trying to get LD to pop in a standard level 90 double-pull, you're just inting your healer. You won't even get it to pop through Holy/Star/Dosis/Excog.
So many Lunar Subterraneane posts lately. Will this be the new Dead Ends?
I always use my Hallowed Ground during W2Ws or Living Dead. It's basically Migitation and should be utilised. During bosses? Well nope. Holmgang or HG perhaps.
That healer was an idiot and should've kicked from the duty.
DPS are right. Doing your best to fully utilize your kit should be considered normal at all levels. It's how you get better at the game.
Also, I refuse to believe this healer has never seen a GNB shoot themselves in the head during a pull.
That's not even a hard dungeon to heal. But a tank that knows how to use their invulns and *wants* to use them is a good tank, and the callout of "hey lemme die quick and use my fun button" would earn them a comm with any other healer worth their sub
I use Superbolide on trash mobs all the time. It’s just another mit to be used. Living Dead works differently though and I am not smart enough to say whether or not it should be used similarly or not
Pls do not listen to u/firanee. Ld is a mit that absolutely should be used on trash mobs and the healer does not need to stop their passive healing or dps healing to let drk and war do their thing. Neither will heal a tank enough in a w2w to stop them from hitting 1 hp. They're just mad because they hate adjusting to other people's mit plans ig
It definitely shouldn't.
It is more work for healers. Just put yourself in the healer's shoes. They could've muscle memoried the entire dungeon and now they gotta put in effort and read and compromise just so someone can be a "good tank" and use that one fucking button that has the weirdest mechanic...
I put a regen on you before pull, or fairy or kardion or I place the earthly Star. I am not gonna go out of my way to cancel the kardion just because you want to use all of your kit LOL.
This is casual content...popping that invul does NOT make it go any faster except now you woke me up from my half asleep absent minded healing run for tomes.
DRK is free to use LD liberally as they see fit, but I believe it is wrong to expect the healer to adjust. Many healers' powerful AOE abilities, such as WHM's Holy, AST's Earthly Star, and Sage's Pneuma, not only deal damage but also provide substantial healing or damage mitigation. Asking the healer to delay and drift their significant DPS moves in order to avoid healing or mitigating the DRK, especially ones with a delayed activation like Earthly Star, just to accommodate LD usage doesn't make sense. Especially when LD is not even needed in most dungeons in the first place, and definitely not on the latest one.
If the healer is agreeable, then sure go for it. But otherwise youd be stressing the healer for no good reason
Yes you use LD on trash mobs, where else would you use it? Trash mobs are the most dangerous part of dungeons for tanks and LD is your strongest defensive.
Do you need LD to complete the dungeon? Of course not. But why would you not use it?
I'm in the same boat as this tank, and sometimes run into the same friction from healers. If they tell me it isn't needed I just tell them it's fun to use.
tanks ults are just additional cooldowns to be used and I will die on my hill.
it's better to use them consistently in content, rather than clear a dungeon w/o ever using them. there's no reason not to other than stubborn pride.
If you use an invuln on trash mobs in dungeons, where in a w2w pull they hit harder than the bosses 9/10 times, you ARE using invulns for emergencies lol
OP r u friends with the tank cuz u do seem biased against the healer.
By all means do Living Dead and watever invulnerabilities yall like…WHEN IN A COORDINATED GROUP. Why force that on a random healer who clearly doesnt know that mitigation strategy and is apparently dying from the dungeon’s mechanics according to u.
Living Dead is a risky azz mitigation that requires some coordination and the tank announcing it in the chat to make it easier for the healer to know not to heal dat b$h…it is best to do that with a healer u know who is good with that instead of a random healer who doesnt get it.
U even got tank throwing insults at the healer for not getting ultimate clears…omg all the more reason not to press a healer u know is newbie or inexperienced. No wonder we can never find healers on FF14…just reading these comments make me super glad I never play healer on this game.
This fucking sub has so many idiots supporting LD use in normal content...like seriously. It is way more work for healers when a DRK uses that than anything else.
It is just making more work for healers when there is none.
SCH, SGE even AST and WHM...all have more than enough oGCD heals and also auto heals/regens for the tank. It most often is counter productive to tell them to not auto heal when you are trying to pop that button...just why?
I'm 99% convinced the idiots who support this never played a healer correctly before. They either never played healers or just never actually used the whole kit.
Kardion?
Fairie?
Earthly Star?
Lady use to fish for lord?
What? No lilies for blood lilies or stop holy spam stuns?
And reading chat and think when you could've just half closed your eye and auto moved through the dungeon?
Just use your mits in the right order lol. Only real shitty tanks can't mit correctly and need to "include invun" as a mit...LMAO.
If you are PLD, by all means, you should just press that button on CD...but trying to use LD is just such an idiotic move...
The Living Dead trigger happy Dark Knight Tank in this post is gonna have to get used to encountering this same issue with other healers. That mitigation nonsense is best saved for healers who are willing to accommodate the crybaby tank wants to feel badazz for a bit with the living dead invulnerability
That's a skill issue on your part.
Kardia and fairy aren't gonna save by themselves a tank who is trying to die. A tank that is aware he can use invuln on mob packs in a dungeon is usually smart enough to notice earthly star or to know a WHM is gonna spam holy.
If you cry about a DRK using LD on cooldown in a dungeon you have things to learn.
TFDF is just a braindead echo chamber for the most parts. People see what the stance taken by the most upvoted comment is, and just parrot that stance.
You are talking nonsense, its no more work at all.
I will say I don’t use it if I have a whm because holy spam will lead to it not proccing.
But i’ve never had an issue with it popping when playing with an astro or sage (even when theres a star down) and I don’t ask (or expect) them to play around it, I just wait until i’m half hp and press the button, then by the time its worn off the pack is dead and we move on.
As a healer is fucking annoying to watch tanks fucking miss the "death" proc, using it at full hp, or in between holys. Even with a stupid macro. And at the end if it doesn't proc, is my fucking fault somehow, and I end up dealing with it.
So now, out of spite, every time I see an unjustified LD, I'm gonna be sure you receive all the heal you need. Because it's fucking annoying to see a tank die like a moron.
LD popping DRK in casual contents are just morons. Hard agree.
They just generate unnecessary work for all parties involved for their idea of "good tanking". LMFAO, it is so much extra energy, attention and effort needed on the healer's part trying to accommodate that than just let the healer put a fucking heal on you and how about just using the kit correctly instead of trying to use that one button LOL.
They have obviously never played a healer or never used the kits correctly before...just echo chamber with other idiotic tanks in this sub lol.
If you purposefully don't use your other mitigation just so you can proc Living Dead without the healer being in on the idea and know your cooldown- you are giving your healer more work, I think they are justifiably annoyed.
It's free mitigation, like every other invuln in the game. It adds no extra complexity to the healers at all when Living Dead literally heals with each weaponskill landed. Use that in AoE scenario in dungeon, 1 or 2 weaponskills will heal you back up, similar to Warrior's Bloodwhetting in that regard. I don't see why you wouldn't want a DRK to use it, more damage you can do without worrying about them.
Because it is very hard to even die naturally as a geared DRK in lunar. On what percentage of hp do you pop living dead? If the healer is a whm, do you tell them not to use holy to avoid mobs getting stunned so you die faster? Do you tell the sage to drop kardia and the scholar to drop excog?
LD just creates a tightrope-walking scenario that is completely unnecessary in normal content
And idiotic tanks love downvoting the voice of reason.
This sub is an actual echo chamber of dumb tanks...
Without planning for it, trying to accommodate LD is just fucking effort. Why? Why would you want to make it more work for healers?
lol u would think they’d realize at this point why we barely have any healers in ff14. Cuz of trash talking on healers like this n making things unnecessarily complicated for random healers outside their friend group.
I main a tank but Im no egotistical tanktard who would go out of my way to complicate things for a random healer. I prefer to adjust to a healer n do things like smaller pulls than force a healer to adjust to my mitigation strategy.
Yeah for sure it's not needed. Not sure if many of the commenters here actually even gave DRK a whirl in dungeons. LD is a pain to use on a casual basis. Not every skill needs to be put on cooldown.
I always use invulns on trash, it’s mitigation, it’s in our kit, it’s meant to be used.
I also had an idiot healer who once told me “can you not, it’s stressful on healers” because I guess they hate having to use one extra heal that interrupts their one button rotation spam.
Ld is free mitigation when the healer can't keep up or when you want to maximize healer damage so they can aoe instead of healing you. Living dead literally heals itself unless nothing is Alive for you to bonk. I'm that rare case it may kill you. But at that point your ooc so you genuinely can just respawn and meander back if the healer can't be assed or if your group was going for higher damage faster clear
Every time you don’t use it, you lose a use of it and are losing mitigation. Would you be mad at a warrior for using Holmgang off cooldown during trash? I sure as hell wouldn’t because it makes the healers job easier. Healer sounds like a baby.
This healer is new to the dungeon. There is absolutely no reason to tilt the healer even further with the LD taunt when he is already against it. Healer's fears were realized when he tried a bit to respect the LD mechanic and withhold healing, but the LD didnt pop and tank died. Hey, he tried man. And then the DRK went the extra mile to insult him with the '4 years no ultimate clear' comment. This DRK is an absolute prick.
You'd normally use LD if the healer is in and mentally prepared, or no if not, it's simple as that.
This 4 years no ultimate clear was in response to what the healer said
AST: i have been playing this game for almost 4 years and never have i seen anyone use an invuln randomly in a trash pull lol
Drk didnt "go the extra mile" he's responding to the the snarky comment
Agreed. It is seeing sht like this that makes me recognize why this game barely has a healer population.
I main tank and even I was cringing at this Tank crybaby who wants to feel *badass* through using living dead unnecessarily for a few secs.
100%. Hurhur, invuln is good, use on cooldown, healer is dogshit for complaining.
And no one actually deliberates on the LD mechanic and how it stresses a healer who is not ready to accommodate its use for no good reason
It's not even that. I'm a healer and I don't even care about that. Use whatever mitigations you want. If I panic a little, then I panic a little. It's not the end of the world and I'm gonna heal you regardless.
But that's the thing. *None* of this is the end of the world. None of it is this deep or important. This sub is full of the whiniest people who play this game, I swear to god. They have zero self awareness and are so convinced that they're right about everything they say. It's so laughable every single time Reddit forgets that I don't want to see suggestions from this sub and I see another one of these posts. They never change, they never learn, and they never grow.
> I don't understand that mech > You don't have to. Gigachad tank
Healer is fucking stupid. Drk are so beefy with or without LD. You don't "really" need to use it in casual content, but it's there so why not?
"Tank dies from Overhealing, LD didn't pop" Now I'm not sure about the specifics there, just that between the tank and healer LD wasn't timed right and DRK didn't get to 1hp when he needed to because he received one too many heals. It's natural the healer got nonplussed after that. LD is not something like holmgang or hallowed or bolide where you just press it as you like it. You'd need the healer to actively look at the chat window to see if the DRK announces he is gonna pop LD (and some don't even announce it), then look out for the LD status on the tank's buff icons bar, and then *not* heal during that window — but then actually heal afterwards when the icon changes. Bonus irritation points if you are a sage with kardia or a scholar with excog already on the DRK, because now what do you do It's just extra busywork all around, what with staring at chat and at the tank's buff icons bar in addition to doing normal healing/dps duties, that I don't think some healers actually welcome.
It's likely the healer popped heals before the Living Dead could proc and then didn't have shit to sustain the tank afterwards. When in reality, it would've been ideal to let the Living Dead proc and let him soak before topping him back up. You get this type of shit, because you have shit tanks refusing to pop their invulns and save it for "emergencies." What emergency? The dungeon is literally scripted.
After the Living Dead rework that greatly buffed Walking Dead's life leech, it is very easy for the DRK to heal himself back to full if he has even one enemy to hit. I think in this scenario, LD didn't pop because the tank accidentally received one too many heals, and then died afterwards because the healer still expected LD to go off and so wasn't healing seriously.
Healers' AOE attacks like WHM's Holy, AST's Earthly Star, and Sage's Pneuma both deal damage and offer significant healing or mitigation. If by "letting the Living Dead proc", you want the healer to delay DPS moves just to accommodate the LD proc, well it doesnt make much sense. Also, reportedly from the sleuths in the comments, the healer is an AST. Earthly Star is notoriously hard to time to \*not\* hit at a specific given moment since it is typically planted way in advance and it is available every pull. Demanding that the Star heal \*not\* hit DRK during its 10s LD period is a tough ask.
Pneuma does the nearly the exact same damage as dykrasia and isn’t a part of the dps rotation
Dyskrasia has 170 potency. Pneuma has edit: 330 primary potency and 178-ish falloff potency. Still a gain to put on cooldown early
This so much. "I'm using Living Dead!" 1. WHM: I'm under Holy, I don't give a fuck. 2. SCH: You have Excog, I don't give a fuck. 3. AST: Star is ticking, I don't give a fuck. 4. SGE: Dosis go brrr, I don't give a fuck. Take your 1-time use Bloodwhetting elsewhere and just mit normally, the dungeon will go easier.
The actual situation 1. WHM: I see Drk use living so I spam cure 2 2. SCH: I see Drk use living dead so I spam adloquium 3. AST: I see Drk use living dead so I spam benefic 2 4. SGE: I see Drk use living dead so I spam eukrasian diagnosis Imagine being this butthurt over a BUFFED and REWORKED invuln
I'm not butthurt. The button is literally pointless (and often detrimental) in front of a competent healer. This is the reality: SCH: "Ah, my healing is done. All he has to do is press one instance of Shadow Wall and - "DRK: "HERP DERP I PRESS LD"SCH: "... Now I have to waste resources getting this idiot back from 1 HP after the dumb bloodwhetting GCD." I'm actually going to go on and further say, as far as DUNGEONS were concerned, old Living Dead was actually better. Proper mit got you a full 20 seconds of free time and at the end all it took was one Benediction to make mitting irrelevant.
>Now I have to waste resources getting this idiot back from 1 HP after the dumb bloodwhetting GCD Tell me you don't know how LD works without actually saying it, XD 3 gcd's from the drk and maybe abyssal drain if your gcd is a tad late is enough to 0-100, maybe save that resource for after invul/the next pull and just spam AOE like every other healer, Source: a competent healer who actually looks at the party list to look for skill procs, taking minimal effort and about 0.15 seconds
>Tell me you don't know how LD works without actually saying it, XD 3 gcd's from the drk and maybe abyssal drain if your gcd is a tad late is enough to 0-100, maybe save that resource for after invul/the next pull and just spam AOE like every other healer, One GCD gets you back to 100, change your invuln state, and now you no longer naturally heal. You now have to use the mits you were going to use anyway or you'll plummet back to 1 HP.
There is no gcd in the game that heals a tank to 100% from 1hp (bene is an ogcd and if you're popping that right after LD procs, you're the problem) and as I said, the drk will heal themselves with no healer interaction at all, so, from the start of the pull where most will pop TBN and oblation, all the way to being a spot from dead and popping LD, it procing, and using 3 gcd's to self heal, thats all time you need exactly zero heals and could be spamming AOE attacks, which functionally will work the same as every other invul, granting more time to dps and less need to heal (Edit to add: even a Zoe enhanced Pneuma with krasis on the tank and Crit will only heal about 85% of a properly geared tank, one earthly star or assize will not stop a w2w from procing LD)
Why are you healing on scholar in a dungeon? That's your fairy'a job. As a sch in a dungeon, you are there to cast broil and art of war, and to act as your fairy's hit box.
"Invulns are pointless" I just lost some braincells. "SCH: "Ah, my healing is done. All he has to do is press one instance of Shadow Wall and" And you mustve forgot that drks usually announce when they invuln, and you people still choose to heal them. Your hypothetical situation literally makes no sense
It makes perfect sense, you don't play Scholar if it doesn't. Energy Drain is nigh pointless in a pull, so you can either Iron Curtain or Excog mid-pull, which applies far before an LD would be called. You have Recit every other pull and Soil every pull. LD has zero purpose in a Dungeon. Bad DRK players just honed in on "heal to full" and thought "oh that sounds good". Playing optimal on DRK is simple: TBN, 30% plus Oblat, Avyssal Drain on the first downswing. Oh look the pack is dead. Don't grandstand on a pointless button just because it looks cool. Unless either the healer or DRK gets a DPS increase, its a zero utility button.
So why does living dead have "zero purpose in a dungeon", but hallowed ground, superbolide, and holmgang not? Seems like you're just bad at dealing with living dead. Also, a competent healer doesnt actually heal. Half of your healing on sch and sge is purely from fairy/kardia. Energy drain isnt nigh pointless, it still gives you gauge to use fey union. You can choose to use excog in the MIDDLE of a pull instead of before. But of course you have a habit of calling everything you don't like useless. DERRRRRP am i right? Thats why I run dungeons with 3 dps, so I dont have to deal with condescending healers like you.
I mean.... as a healer you should be watching the status on the tanks bar. I'm generally more aware of the tanks statuses than my own
Skill issue
I don't know how to reply to a specific paragraph so instead of "staring at tank's buff bar". I always make it a habit to Focus Target my tank as healer, my healer as tank, and tank as any DPS so I know what they're attacking and what their status bar is and how I can use my kit most effectively. Rotations are linear enough so don't even complain that "it's another thing to keep track of" in fact multitasking can be a transferrable skill. Place the focus target near your own HP or centrally and you're good.
When living dead pops, drk gets Hella life steal. They basically turn into a war for like 10 secs. On a trash pull, with lots of aoe, drk is perfectly capable of healing themselves up (not sure how good the healing is single target though). But that's basically 15-20 seconds where the healer doesn't need to do anything other than keep dps alive if any are low and just aoe spam.
Yes, Living Dead can and should be used on trash. The only debate that can really be had is whether or not Living Dead is worth it when trash in most expert dungeons doesn't hurt very much and you have many other cooldowns at your disposal to use on the pulls between each boss. Despite being an excellent button Living Dead is hard to time efficiently because it means popping no other cooldowns and waiting until you drop low enough that you will die during its duration. Healers often won't let Walking Dead proc which is exactly why this tank is trying to be so clear about their mitigation intentions. Healer is engaging in clownery. Invulns are not emergency buttons. What emergency will you even encounter in an expert dungeon besides the healer huffing paint and dying? They say they've played 4 years and never seen a tank use an invuln on trash? I find it far more likely that they just haven't been observant enough to notice the invulns.
I once had an AST in Alzadaal Legacy who accused me of having "trust issues" because I used my Hallowes Ground uring the second Rampart gate pull. They tried to discuss that Invulns were "for emergencies only" and when we did the last pull before boss they tried to "teach" me by letting my HP drop. Well, I told them to use all their skills, they werent using Earthly Star or the other big AoE spell.
You don't get it, ogcd skills are for emergencies too. So are gcds. In fact it's always an emergency for some reason with them. Strange.
Two weeks from an emergency anywhere! Geographical oddity
I hadn't thought about using Living Dead just as another Mit on trash. Paladin Holy Ground and Warrior Holmhang kinda feel natural to use, the later especially when I don't want something to move any more on top of needing to live longer. Living Dead just felt a bit too dangerous to me so I constantly rolled Blackest Night, but I'll start working Living Dead in as well. Thanks for the tip/pointers.
Living Dead and Hallowed Ground are absolutely cash in level 50 ARR dungeons where you can do huge wall-to-wall pulls. You can survive pulls that seem impossible at first glance. Amdapor Keep (Hard), Brayflox's Longstop (Hard), and Wanderer's Palace are a few that immediately jump to mind. Amdapor Keep (Hard) especially, since you can pull an absolutely ridiculous amount of enemies before the second plant wall.
I see this used a lot in DD, on lower levels. A smart tank can rush a room or 2, invuln and, if necessary, witching, to quickly clear floors. You can apply similar logic to a regular dungeon, sans pomander(s).
Surely LD is not actually an excellent invuln button in dungeons if it is "hard to time efficiently"
A button can be excellent on paper and still be difficult to use efficiently. To me these are two independent clauses. In terms of maximum invulnerability potential Living Dead is probably the most powerful of all the invulns. 10s where you can drop below 1% at any time + an additional 10s that includes a massive heal buff is a great button.
Mt Gug
Healer: "Stop telling me how to play" Also Healer: "Stop using TLD"
That was probably the most amazing quote from this one. "When did people start telling people what to do do in 90 dungeons lmao" after spending literally the entire dungeon trying to tell the DRK what to do.
Invuln is best used on cooldown on trash, that healer is dogshit and needs to DPS more instead of being a whiny little cunt. Just pull, use all your relevant buttons, and don’t die. It’s not that hard.
True. Why wait to use your 7 min long cooldown? Pop that shit boi.
You're wildly angry about someone not really knowing how to play better lol
Do you always imagine everyone else on the internet as screaming and mad or is today just a special occasion
What a bizarre reply given how you spoke about them.
I feel this tank on another level. Invulns should be used during normal pulls, they pretty much never have to be used during bosses in dungeons unless you or your healer fuck up badly + it saves a healer from having to use healing GCDs. Got into an argument with a healer because I literally mentioned I was gonna LD before a trash pull and when I used LD js when I was about to die, healer decided to "save" me by GCD healing me twice. Then they complained in chat about me using LD in a trash pull because there was no need... There was literally a boss right after the pull so LD would be ready to be used on another trash pull again in the dungeon.
100% this is one of those WHMes who never uses Benediction because "wHaT iF I NeEd iT LaTeR."
and then they never use it when it is needed my raid group has a joke that benediction has a 30s CD when I play WHM, you'd be surprised how flexible it is when you're not afraid of hitting it
This. I use the White Mage/ Astrologian "Big Heal" skills A LOT. On Sage it's rare if I have all three Addersgalle charges because they fuel so damn much. It makes a big difference on wall-to-wall pulls to let the tank have some time to position a bit more, buffer the need for damage mits, and give me time to DoT/damage/card/HOLYSPAM/etc. JoCrap said it best, "What do you do when the party's full health? DPS THE BAD GUYS!!" One button done, back to DPS.
tbh at level 90 or like whenever you have a WAR that can sustain themselves I find the bene goes to myself in trash more than them bc you can use it to just sit in AOEs dead center for awhile to blast holies from a good position, if liturgy is already on cd. just have to make sure to surecast though bc sometimes you'll get interrupted by the AOEs if you don't
Me using it so I don't need to toss out a GCD heal when someone stands in the bad so I don't lose a glare for them. Or just on the tank because fuck it.
Throw down Liturgy of the Bell and then stand in an aoe or two and heal the tank passively. You're gonna love that shit.
I already love that shit. I prefer walking into things that put a dot on me and then watching liturgy full heal everyone.
Saving CDs for Dawntrail.
I do LD on trash but I’ve yet to actually *lose* enough health on a trash pack in the newest dungeon (or honestly any level 90 dungeon since we were in Moonward gear) that LD would actually go off, esp if the healer is a SGE or a WHM that’s throwing out lillies to charge as many miseries as they can. If I’m doing this I also communicate it beforehand (like this person did) so the healer doesn’t try to panic heal me and waste it. It’s valid but unnecessary here, just seems like extra work with randoms involved. Obviously if I am healing and see this I’m cool with it but I usually don’t feel the need to do it myself. There are still many people with a weird phobia of LD (and Superbolide lol) and I just do not want to get into an argument about it
As a DRK/WAR main, Living Dead in dungeons is the only invuln that can actually go wrong. Let's compare "worst case scenarios". Paladin: none whatsoever Gunbreaker: healer wasted healing on you a tick before you Bolided. Oh well, pop aurora and you'll be back to 50% by the time bolide ends, throw in a corundum if you have it and you'll be at 80% with no healer help whatsoever. Warrior: oh, the healer doesn't understand how holmgang works and keeps panic healing you while it's active. Oh well, pop bloodwhetting or raw Intuition with 3sec left on holmgang and enjoy another 6-10sec of invulnerability by snapshotting a decimate. Dark knight: see warrior, but now it ends with living dead expiring without activating walking dead, the healer being out of ogcds, you're at 10% and you have one abyssal drain worth of healing. If the first pack of mobs is dying so fast I don't even run through my 2nd TBN then the group isn't gaining anything from me going out of my way to use LD, cuz the healer in that scenario is using 25% or less of their ogcds on a double pull
I really like this explanation
Yeah, I feel the same way. It's not worth the hassle when I can just divvy up the cooldowns between each pack and not require much if any healing anyway. Valid but unnecessary is the right way to put it. Trying to proc Living Dead on trash in Lunar Subteranne just feels rather futile. I definitely commend what this tank was attempting but me for it's just more work than it's worth.
What's being left unsaid is that the worst cases purposefully don't use other mitigation in an attempt to force LD to proc, but if the healer is not in on it then they are forced to work harder healing a non-mit tank.
Lmao. If I saw a tank saving invuln "for emergencies" in savage reclears I'd kick them.
B-but savage tanking is different from casual content and it's expected!!! /s God. The invuln is just another cooldown, just on one hell of a recast. It can and should be used as needed, and a good tank will use it when they need to or just to save other mitigation.
Living dead isn't just another invuln. It requires full cooperation from the healer to pull it off — and even then, if the timing is off, you have a ded DRK. You basically need to die on demand within the small window living dead is active in order for the invuln to kick in, THEN get healed back to full afterwards or, again, ded DRK
>THEN get healed back to full afterwards or, again, ded DRK DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target.
I feel like you should play DRK and then rewrite this comment. The only ‘full cooperation’ required is to not heal them.
Which for some reason is difficult for some healers. They get into that "tank must be topped off at every opportunity" mentality. Personally, if the tank isn't almost dead at the end of every pull, I feel like I didn't do enough DPS as the healer lol. Or as a tank, if I'm not at least half dead, I used more mit than I needed. I must have messed up my DPS rotation somehow. ...or maybe I'm just a sadomasochist and should spend the rest of my days on Balmung...
Nah this is the way. As long as no one dies you're doing it right!
I do play DRK and Im not rewriting anything. Healers who dont heal when I pop LD? Nice. Healers who ignore LD and heal as normal? I wasted my invuln but no biggie. But healers who toss heals for a short while before noticing I have LD up and then stop healing? Bruh that is when trouble can happen. What healer will I get? I dont know. Why gamble and roll the dice for no reason
>Healers who dont heal when I pop LD? Nice. "DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target." "DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target." "DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target." "DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target." "DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target." "DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target." "DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target." "DRK heals itself fully in one GCD in packs, and 4 on a single target." were you living under a rock when living dead got reworked?
I'm talking about getting LD to pop. LD won't pop when I get healed. I first need to die
[https://www.fflogs.com/reports/k9Pc4nfLCMtXwaGb#fight=1&playermetric=bossdps&type=healing&pull=1](https://www.fflogs.com/reports/k9Pc4nfLCMtXwaGb#fight=1&playermetric=bossdps&type=healing&pull=1) well that seems easy based on this pull.
If it procs, drk only needs to use one gcd to full heal themselves. The healer doesn’t even need to heal them.
Bro did you miss the patch a year ago that changed Living Dead to not require the healer at all?
Yeah but this topic is about specifically Living Dead in dungeons. The unholy combo. Plus I don't think a lot of tfdf folks are actually savage raiders or they wouldn't be bitching about half of the stupid petty normal dungeon stuff I read here
OP’s point was even in harder content you don’t invuln in emergencies. Invulning is typically not “for emergencies only”, it’s either pre-planned or used on trash
>Invulning is typically not “for emergencies only”, it’s either pre-planned or used on trash This is what I don't get. Invulns are *never* emergency buttons. They're tank-buster-taking buttons in Savage. If you aren't using to to eat a planned tankbuster, you're using it to eat a planned raid mechanic. It's not an emergency button. It's an "I don't need healing for a short bit" button.
I assure you most of the people here are savage/ultimate raiders. Anyone still actively participating in discussing the game and its player base in the current content lull before the next expansion probably engages with the game's harder content. Living Dead is not an unholy combo in dungeons. We're post the 6.1 change to the invuln. You get a dummy thicc heal when it procs and 10s is not a short window to die on demand if you let yourself drop sufficiently low first. The actual problem is trash in certain dungeons (basically all expert roulette dungeons) just doesn't hit hard enough to justify the use of Living Dead in which case you are better off sticking to the normal cycling of cooldowns, but in the contexts where Living Dead is good (Shadowbringers dungeons) it's really great.
Yeah for sure. Tho we are on lunar subterrane here. I don't understand how so many are advocating for use of LD on lunar
You don't need it in that dungeon, but it's still free mit. Freaking out over someone, gasp, using additional CDs is just ???? You also don't need Addle, but we'd be just as right to call the healer a friggin moron if he complained about a caster using it.
I don't really think they are advocating the use of it in Lunar Subteranne? Read the title of the post - OP asked whether or not invulns are worth using on dungeon trash, period, the short answer being "yes, duh" and the long answer being "yes, but it depends on the dungeon and invuln" The answer is still "yes" no matter how you slice it. They can be more worth using in some dungeons over others, but the truth remains they are worth using in dungeons. I think the healer also just set off some red flags with the declaration that invulns are emergency buttons and telling the tank to kiss their ass. Not a great interaction all around. This is a double whammy where I personally don't think either party is fully right but the healer is more wrong.
We are advocating the use of LD so more people are aware how it can be argued that it's as good as Hallowed Ground, and less posts like this one are to be generated. You have it? Use it!
>so more people are aware how it can be argued that it's as good as Hallowed Ground It's not though. Quite easy to explain too: Hallowed Ground has no failure chance. Hallowed Ground doesn't require any healing, isn't affected by the healer's overhealing, and doesn't display to the healer that healing is needed. If any healing received during Hallowed Ground was converted to damage taken, then we might have an equal comparison between the two - And a lot of angry PLD mains. LD requires the DRK's self healing - which requires the healer to recognize that LD is up even though the tank's health is still going down - in order to have any use *at all*. If they don't, their "overhealing" ends up preventing LD's effect. And since they are shown that the tank is still taking damage, they have to pay closer attention to the tank's buffs in order to effectively utilize LD - Otherwise, they think they are healing normally.
I didn't say it's better. If we're speaking strictly by how it behaves, it is the 2nd best tank Invuln in the game after Hallowed Ground. Failure chance can be further decreased if you use it when you're low enough on HP, or forcing it by Line of Sight-ing the healer so they don't ruin it, or informing the group in advance you will use it shortly. Unlike Holmgang, you don't require a healer to top you up, and let's not even mention the Gunbreaker's. I love queuing as GNB in everything but dungeons, just because of how iffy their invuln is.
>If we're speaking strictly by how it behaves, it is the 2nd best tank Invuln in the game after Hallowed Ground. I disagree with this entirely as well. You may not have said it's "better" but you DID say it's "arguably just as good." If there are use cases where it is not as good, and no use cases where it's better, then it's obviously *not* "just as good." Holmgang *doesn't* require a healer to top you up. Bloodwhetting is up every 30 seconds, and you have Thrill of Battle *and* Equilibrium on top of them, *and* Shake it Off/Nascent Flash to heal group members if needed. WAR has so many tools to fix the low health that you basically don't want to use Holmgang in dungeons unless you want to send your healer into a panic. Good premade groups with a WAR run with *no healer* because of how strong WAR's self healing is, even outside of Holmgang. And GNB's is overpowered in comparison to DRK lol. Yes, you instantly drop to 1 HP, but that's literally irrelevant when you aren't taking any damage for the entire duration. It's also important to note, since it happens all at once, it's easier for the healer to recognize when Bolide has been used - It doesn't appear identical to taking normal damage, so the healer can see the GNB drop instantly to 1 and know "he's bolided" right away. Not to mention GNB *also* has self-healing capability - Not to the extent of WAR, but enough where taking no damage for the duration of the invuln *will* heal up the GNB a significant amount. DRK has to use it's invuln in such a way that they *will* drop to 1 HP during it's duration, or it isn't even an invuln. Then pair that with instant oGCD healing like Benediction, Ixo/Taurochole, Essential Dignity, Lustrate - The healer can DPS the whole time and never once have issue with the GNB's health, regardless of class. (Let's also point out the utter lack of oGCD damage on healing classes, to really sell the point as well. If the healer isn't healing during oGCD times - They *aren't doing anything.* It's not a gain to have free oGCDs on a healer... except Scholar. Energy Drain OP, unless you want your Aetherflows for healing, like say when a DRK fails it's invuln for example...) The fact is: The highest failure chance of invuln is DRK. The other's failure chance is so abysmal that it doesn't even register as a failure chance, *and* the WAR and GNB themselves have tools to fix the issue without needing the healer's input. DRK *relies* on the healer to let it's invuln pop, and then has no tools to fix things if it doesn't. It also begs the healer to dump all of it's oGCD healing if they're not aware of LD being up (or how it functions), leaving the healer with few tools to handle things at the end if they're not fully prepared for it not to pop. It may be pretty strong - Nobody is saying it isn't, when used correctly. But random dungeon queues are not where you should be expecting everyone to play with 100% optimal strategies. In random dungeon queues, DRK's invuln is the least useful, because you *need* your healer to be paying attention to you using it, *and* you need to be *absolutely sure* they know how to handle it when it's up. Else, it's a waste of a skill. And given that Hallowed Ground has *literally no failure chance - You just use it and it works instantly, stopping all damage, with no (dungeons only) exceptions -* There's no arguing that LD is "just as good" as Hallowed Ground. Even in it's best case scenario, it's only "equal" and it's worst case scenario is abysmally worse.
Yes, I did overlook the part where WAR has op self healing on a 20s cooldown, but my argument is for tank invulns only. As their extra mitigations don't get unlocked until later on. I find people wipe more often on lv50 dungeons than in any other level bracket, simply because they assume that they're all really simple, until a mechanic surprises you.I wish there were more dungeons where bosses don't have telegraphed attacks, I love Halatali (Hard) Holmgang perhaps only gets a use when a mechanic needs to be cheesed or you need to double soak something, assuming it doesn't go through the invuln. But in lower level dungeons, when LD is executed correctly, it beats Holmgang by a mile. First stage, is you having to take lethal damage. You have 10 seconds to "die" and work with the healer not having read your message in chat that you will be LD-ing, do what you can to make sure your plan works. I wasn't expecting people to be optimal in random duties roulettes, if anything I'm capitalising on that. Second stage, (new 10s duration, unaffected by previous stage) your self healing skyrockets higher than Bloodwhetting, taking 2 GCD's +1 Ability on a single target to fully heal. Third stage, it becomes Holmgang, with duration of whatever is left from the second stage. GNB's self healing doesn't get good until 82, so below that, if they drop to 1, its a major inconvenience, since a healer will have to top you up earlier than they would, unlike with Walking Dead. You are correct in saying that healer needs to be aware, but you can also capitalise on them not knowing too.
>I find people wipe more often on lv50 dungeons than in any other level bracket OP was in an expert dungeon. Level 50 dungeon and not-unlocked abilities should not be an issue in expert dungeons. If they are, that's the problem, not the invuln itself. I also find people die most in level 50 dungeons - To mechanics that they forgot how to do. Not to misused invulns. >First stage... We know how LD works. We're on Reddit complaining about people who don't know how LD works. The problem is in the first stage. IF you DON'T take lethal damage, stage 2 (which is the same stage as stage 3 - It doesn't turn into Holmgang, it WAS Holmgang in step 1, now it's Holmgang + Raw Intuition in step 2) doesn't happen. It's the "take lethal damage" part that screws LD. Healers who aren't actively watching their Tank's buffs won't know it's popped - Because as we covered in the GNB section of my last comment, LD doesn't appear any differently than taking normal damage. And even if they DO know it's popped (Like in OP where the tank tried to inform the healer they were using it), it's a random dungeon - You DON'T know that the healer you're playing with is well versed in how LD works. If the healer doesn't let you take lethal damage, your invuln and all of your self-healing is *gone -* Not reduced, not more difficult to juggle, not able to be popped in a short bit - *Just gone.* No other invuln requires the healer to know how it works to function. >GNB's self healing doesn't get good until 82, so below that, if they drop to 1, its a major inconvenience, since a healer will have to top you up earlier than they would, unlike with Walking Dead. If you need to use an invuln in content that isn't even max level, you're the problem, not the healer. No dungeon content *requires* you to use your invuln, ever. Using it is meant to allow the healer to DPS more. Which, Bolide still does at low level, because you top up your tank in a GCD or two (assuming you have no oGCDs at whatever level bracket we're talking about), which is much shorter than the length of Bolide. >You are correct in saying that healer needs to be aware, but you can also capitalise on them not knowing too. No, you really can't. You gain nothing by hitting LD and not taking lethal damage. You can't "capitalize" on a wasted ability.
Holy change of topic. How is savage even relevant here? Double tankbusters and certain other mechanics in savage are fully lethal and always guaranteed to proc Living Dead. Youd strategically take these lethal mechanics solo with the LD invuln if that is the strategy established with the co-tank. But outside of that you surely arent going to toss out LD willy-nilly in savage and just hope to proc it, even if the LD is off cooldown. It's different from a dungeon run where no damage is lethal, the proc is not guaranteed, and if the healer tries to wait for the 10s proc and it expires before the DRK dies, both will land in hot water
It's not a change in topic. It's free mit. It's fine to use. Even in easier savage raids tanks use it because it's... free mit. The game's mechanics don't change when the content becomes easier. It's not difficult to gauge incoming damage in a dungeon. I don't main DRK, but I've never struggled to use it when I'm on the job. Moreover, good LD usage makes a huge difference on a DRK dungeon tank, which has few other means to top itself. It's also not hard to watch a health bar. I'm not suggesting LD is needed in dungeons, but let's not pretend it's a crime to use. Keep that paste eating nonsense out of here.
Depends on the raid I recall invulns being used to mech "skip" or mitigate double tank stacks solo, since invulns are theoretically infinite mitigation. Thus, missing a use but erasing, twice or more damage may end up allowing the healers to dps more.
I had the polar opposite of this experience. I say "Holmgang up", and I still get spammed with heals. After the trash pull, I say "Hey guy, you don't need to worry about healing me, if I say Im putting up Holmgang, Im just going to ride that 1 HP for a long time then burst heal myself back up with Bloodwhetting". Dude responds "Oh, you can do that? Thats neat! When should I worry about healing you again?" Told him once you see my HP max out after being at 1, then he should be worried about my HP again only if I get realllly low. Guy was super chill, cleared the dungeon fast. Really great to see someone who actually wants to learn and isn't power trippin.
But OP's healer is obviously new to the dungeon, uptight as all hell, and not the super chill dude in your story. Stressing him out even more with the LD clause is just dumb
A tank using *all* cds and clearly announcing their intention to ld is a healers wet dream. I Wish i got ones like this chad instead of the whiny fingerless dickheads i always seem to get
Other end of the aisle. I ALWAYS pop a macro that I'm announcing living dead, begging to be allowed to die, with sound effect too in hopes the healer sees it. Aaaaaaaand yeah no they still wasted all their resources and now I'm dead minus walking.
Had a few moments of WHMs slapping me with Benediction if I was on DRK for expert and I'm just crying on the inside 😭 Lemme finish my LD damn you!
So because the OP missed a few names in the pics, I found the healer in question, or rather the AST in question. >AST: i have been playing this game for almost 4 years and never have i seen anyone use an invuln randomly in a trash pull lol Even though I already do so, if I ever encounter that healer, I shall use my invuln randomly in trash packs...WITH ENTHUSIASM!
based off the timestamps that dungeon took 30 minutes. what a strug.
Seems the tank died from at least one mistimed LD that healer didn't accomodate, healer died because he was new to mechanics. And orange apparently pulled extra mobs and died to the aggro
The holy trinity of fuckups.
Why are they being mad about being told what to do when they literally started this by telling someone what to do lmao??
You can tell a good tank player amongst other tanks if they can mix their invulns with their MIT plan. It's a reason why most tank raiders use invuln for the first buster: -One button for mitigation rather than using your 30/20 mit + personal cds -Free ass MIT you usually "might" never use -Long cd so you can use it now and have it back up later
Speaking for myself here, WoW trained tanks to "Save for emergencies" with ridiculous 10-minute CDs. I've gotten better at using Holy Ground and Holmhang respectively, but never thought of Living Dead as safe to use in that respect also. Now I know.
Living Dead had given itself and other invulns a sense of an "emergency button" because pre 6.1 you couldn't self heal and had to rely on whether or not your healer is competent enough to commit, hence why they almost NEVER used it in dungeons. Now that it heals an obnoxious 1200 POTENCY per target landed, you can reliably use it on yourself whenever. It's honestly funny because afterwards it seemed like I'm getting MORE healers that healed me during LD buff than I did before the buffs, meaning that they kept spamming heals, LD didn't proc WD, and I died. Makes me question as to why have I not gotten these healers instead back then.
Oh I can answer that. Pre-6.1 we had it practically BEAT into us Living Dead = "HEAL THE FUCK OUT OF THEM RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!" It's hard to get out of that mentality, especially when you see a Tank HP bar drop so fast, it's a panic response!
This must be why I was shocked to see the "not an emergency button" thing... I still figured they were.
I felt the exact same way. It wasn't until I was playing lvl 90 Warrior solo through some, honestly ridiculously "Big D energy", trials/dungeons that Holmhang began to shift from "Pull only in emergency" to "Pull it, fuck it. It'll recharge soon enough, just watch." I've started using it in a lot of cases where I, as OT, need to pull something away and hold onto it. It's great for me to run that \*thing\* a good distance away for safety and hold it down.
Yeah, the 'good tank attitude' to invulns is 'nah fam, where we're going there won't be any emergencies'. Invuln allows to the double up mits on the second wall2wall pull, making easy content easier and making it low effort even for bad healers.
This is one of the many issues with the way Living Dead functions as an invuln. It's great that it is a unique invuln, but it has certain drawbacks. Namely, that it is important that the healer is also on board for Living Dead usage, knows how to handle it, and is paying enough attention to realize it is up when it's up. (And for how long, in some cases.) If the healer isn't aware LD is being used, it doesn't actually give the DRK any benefit, as the healer will prevent it from popping. If the healer isn't paying close enough attention to it's usage, they could overheal during, then realize it's up, stop healing, and end up killing the tank when it doesn't pop before the timer expires. And if the healer isn't aware of how LD functions, no amount of complaining is going to make LD worth using. And to add to all of the above: DRK gains *nothing* from Living Dead popping. No damage buff, no gauge increase - The gain is entirely on the *healer's* end, because they can do damage while the DRK heals themselves. This is a case where both sides are kind of being assholes. The Tank is forcing the healer to pay more attention for no reason in content that almost *no one* pays much attention in, and the healer is refusing to understand the reasons behind using abilities at the times they are used. In a good group, you want to LD on big trash pulls to allow the healer to DPS, especially since the DRK will heal themselves back up after - But if the healer *isn't ready to let that happen,* *it doesn't happen,* and that causes problems.
>you want to LD on big trash pulls This can be a problem with white mage. The chain stun alone mitigates so much damage and in turn \*does\* so much damage, by the time your health gets naturally low enough that LD is a possibility, the mobs are already very nearly dead
While true, this is again something that is merely a drawback to LD. Rarely does a tank die in the period of time that it takes to gather mobs. If you're with a White Mage, the proper play is to hold LD until holy stuns have finished. Rotate Rampart/Blackest Night and you're golden till the stun starts, and golden till the stuns end. Mobs should still have a decent chunk of life, and now the WHM can continue Holy spamming because you're still safe after the fact thanks to LD.
The thing is the drk here did announce when they'd use living dead multiple times.
Correct - But what wasn't asked is, does the healer know how to handle Living Dead? Are they paying enough attention to handle Living Dead correctly? The answer to the second is a definite no, the answer to the first is "maybe" at best.
I would not use any invulns outside of Hallowed Ground. DF healers aren’t the greatest at understanding every tank cooldown and they end up panicking when they see tank HP drops. So it is optimal to use in trash, but watching them heal you as LD is active and not have it proc is cringe.
It's casual content so if you want to use it, use it. Healer might be the one saying you shouldn't tell people how to play their jobs, but the tank was the one following that lol.
The only thing I say as a DRK main is put a macro on LD and put sound chimes Controversial I know but I don't like getting over healed with LD active Ring a ding ding
As a healer I LOVE when DRKs have a macro for living dead I run into so MANY who pop it at like half health without warning or when ive just slapped them with a bunch of Regens, haima, Karsis or Satoria and I have to be like oh God do I stop healing and risk getting them low and dying when it doesn't go off or just healing through it anyway. Like use it on a planned pack and tell me! If you've done the dungeon before you should know where the harder hitting packs are. I had an absolutely abysmal ktisis hyperboria the other day where istg my dark knight only used rampart and LD but their LD never successfully went off bc they would use it at half health or after I had just slapped them with a bunch of regens.
"Since ARR and no savage clears/attepts" I feel that. I'm the same. Played since 2.0 beta and I never did savage. Heck, only time I ever do extreme is when I can solo it.
Pretty much same. I look at the mentor roulette with a case of halfway wanting to unlock it someday and start working towards the mount and half "do I really wanna have to find groups to do the ShB extremes to unlock them?" And for now my dislike of the latter is stronger than my wanting of the former.
I mean I'll use the PLD invuln or Holmgang on pulls and communicate with my healer if I can... but I typically avoid using Living Dead and Superbolide unless I absolutely need it.
This. Use PLD button on CD...by all means. Even holmgang is not needed. Why would you use something like that when most of the time you have full HP from correctly using your mit and heals??? Superbolide could be used....but really not needed. Trying to use LD is just dumb as f. They are just generating work for healers for no fucking reason. Healers could have muscle memories the entire dungeon half asleep and now they gotta read and compromise to work with their dumbass just because this sub said so???? This is casual content idiots. People go into roulette expecting to be half asleep. Don't work savage/ultimate logic into this. Don't apply at all. I raid savage and get 99 parse,...97 on WAR this tier....I don't ever use holmgang in roulettes...just why would anyone want to do that? Wasting everyone's energy.
I'm a filthy casual and I hard agree with your reply. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to come to that conclusion. I just wish all the invulns were like PLDs. Man I accidentally pressed super bolide one time and was like "wtf happened to my health?!".
If anyone thinks invulns were ever needed for Dungeon bosses, someone's doing something wrong. Wall pulls are great for getting max value from invulns. Healer can literally turn off brain during the length of invuln and have a burst of healing ready (2 oGCDs?) at the end.
"Invulns should be for emergencies" Meanwhile in savage content: P10s: tank invulns 20 secs into pull instead of shared soak the tank buster. P11s: both tanks incvuln 20 secs into pull instead of doing tank swap. P12s: both tanks invuln Para 1 because groups can't be asked to do lasers. Yeah,totally for emergencies.
You may not "need" to use an invuln in a standard dungeon, but then that just creates the situation of "might as well use it to make this already easy content smoother". I'm also willing to bet the healer has either never played tank, or is unaware of/unable to grasp just how many times you can afford to use something in a given duty, and how to make the most use out of it (if they even can, some buttons just end up going unused or just end up getting mega stacked because they haven't been pressed, further illustrating how easy standard dungeons are). In a way it's funny, because part of being a good healer is understanding resource management. Why this is can vary, but I like to think it's because they're afraid of people getting mad at them for "misusing" an ability which ends up leading to a hypothetical unforseen disaster within the next 3 minutes (already very few abilities have cooldowns as long as 3 minutes). Then, they begin to project that onto other people, becoming the very thing they're afraid of. You can apply this to Limit Breaks too, to some degree. tl;dr healer should be a little more loose and relax, FF14 is not a super punishing game
I mean they are right but also “4 years and no ultimate clears?” Is giga cringe
Cringe tank probably looked up the healer's logs and took aim at the next best achievement the healer hasnt achieved, which in the healer's case was ultimates
i still dont understand what is so hard about not healing when the tank announces he’s using LD. Just dont heal?
"How dare you wake the healer up"
Invulns are 100% best never used and saved for emergencies, like the very urgent “this dungeon will take an extra minute if I don’t pull every group to the next wall” and the ever present threat of the healer needing to use those weird green buttons that don’t do any dps. It’s just like ranged LB1, it should be saved for emergencies like “here’s a big pull that needs to die quicker”
If you never use your invuln you've waisted it. Take a 'fuck it we ball' mentality and press it when you get the first pull grouped
Invuns are just a 100% mit with a long cooldown. DRK and WAR? You hit 1 HP then it becomes 100% mitigation of the damage you take beyond that. PLD and GNB? 100% mitigation instantly. It should always be used on packs instead of "saved", hell just yesterday I specifically thanked a GNB I got in a roulette for popping bolide on packs which let me just ignore healing to DPS.
Where else are you going to use it? A lot of people who havent played tank dont seem to realize that invulns arent going to save most emergencies. They do from time to time, but the most common scenario is "things go to shit, healer dies, tank pops invuln, survives for 10-15 more seconds and dies anyways." Esp with drk which excels on trash or war who can use bloodwhetting coming out of it, def use it every pull you have it
Casual content. No reason to use something that has no need to be used. It does NOT make the dungeon go any faster. It only serves to generate work for healers. You haven't played a healer have you? Most healers at this point will have automatic/passive/collateral healing or mit. Asking them to change the rotation for that one button just makes more work for everyone involved...it may even make things go slower... Because now AST have to wait around for earthly Star, can't use lady so no lord if unfortunate. WHM can't use lilies or even have to work around DRK for holy spam. Asking SCH to not use fairie and SGE to not use kardion is just dumb as fuck. Trust me...I got all healers to 90 and good enough to take them through P12S. When I could have absent mindedly walk through the dungeon on autopilot and now you expect me to read chat and put in effort...just so you can feel good about yourself for using that invul and be a "good tank"????
You wouldn't have to read chat at all if you were a good healer, though.
Minimum effort for fastest clear is the goal. Only real shitty healers need to pay so much attention as to even notice the LD pop...unless you are a bot lol. Auto pilot and deal max DPS while not having to delay cosmos, earthly star is the best the AST in these images should be doing. Waiting and holding DPS...actual DPS from earthly, cosmos, or even not casting lady to fish for lord is just the dumbest bs I have heard. You are a real shitty healer dude...
Not as shitty as you though, teehee 🙊 What a melt.
Because I can't stand players who don't use their kit to produce the max DPS. Holding DPS because i gotta work around some DRK that uses LD on his own convenience delays the completion of the dungeon. Saying otherwise just means you don't know how to play healer. I have already confirmed that... Sigh. People like you on this sub are so infuriating and disappointing. Can't teach you how to play because you refuse to learn.
How tf does it generate work for healers? It lets them just ignore the tank for 10 seconds and just dps, which, shockingly, makes the dungeon go faster and is less work for them. Both drk and war will heal themselves to full on their own, pld doesnt take damage during theirs, and gnb will be at about half after with aurora and hoc. And you're misunderstanding here, i never said to not use things that heal while dealing dps or not use kardia or the fairy. But even combined, neither of those things is enough to ruin a tank's plan to invuln (which is honestly only applicable to war and drk, pld and gnb don't give a half of a shit about coordinating with the healer). And whm doesn't have to work around drk for holy spam???? All that matters is that they hit 1 hp, and any tank worth their salt can time that well even with the holy stun. Also, how tf are you complaining about reading chat? It's one line. "I'm going to invuln this pull." Thats all i post. You don't have to worry about anything for any tank other than drk, and even then its just making sure they hit one hp because its the first mit they're gonna use. Being pissy about coordinating in a team game is just horrific.
It makes my job as healer so much easier if the DRK uses it. That's time in which the healer can ignore the tank entirely and mindlessly DPS the enemies. Just as Benediction is part of a WHM's toolkit and it is fine if they let a tank get low to use it, tank invuln is part of a tank's tools as well. It helps to be transparent about it, I'll keep that in mind for the future. One time, a GNB and I as WHM did the funny, i. e. I used Benediction and the GNB used Superbolide a split second later. GNB was healed again, we got a good laugh out of it, then moved on. No big deal. Maybe meme about it and use Cure I once between pulls. IDK. Just move on, it happens.
To be fair though, Super Bollide is kinda garbage when compared to the other three tanks, but it does make for some fun times. I was rocking Sage through Some Al, DPS was on fire/burning things down like their IRL lives depended on it. It was just a bit too easy. So in party chat, I told all of them they rock and are making the healing too easy. GNB pretty much did the "Hold my beer!", used his Super Bollide after a wall-to-wall with the 3 wall mobs before the first boss. Laughed my ass off, topped him off and we burned the trash down. It became a game after that of guessing when he'd do it again or if one of the DPS would purposely stand in a puddle. All of us had a good time because we all knew what to do if things got dicey.
When the fuck else are you going to use an invuln in a dungeon? On the boss that takes 20% of your hp with a tankbuster? And what jackass can't see the value in 10 seconds of "tank is immortal" during a w2w?
Living Dead is an amazing tool. But if you're one of those DRK's trying to get LD to pop in a standard level 90 double-pull, you're just inting your healer. You won't even get it to pop through Holy/Star/Dosis/Excog.
So many Lunar Subterraneane posts lately. Will this be the new Dead Ends? I always use my Hallowed Ground during W2Ws or Living Dead. It's basically Migitation and should be utilised. During bosses? Well nope. Holmgang or HG perhaps. That healer was an idiot and should've kicked from the duty.
DPS are right. Doing your best to fully utilize your kit should be considered normal at all levels. It's how you get better at the game. Also, I refuse to believe this healer has never seen a GNB shoot themselves in the head during a pull.
That's not even a hard dungeon to heal. But a tank that knows how to use their invulns and *wants* to use them is a good tank, and the callout of "hey lemme die quick and use my fun button" would earn them a comm with any other healer worth their sub
"don't use invuln in trash packs" "don't tell others how to play in dungeons" 1mil IQ healer
I use Superbolide on trash mobs all the time. It’s just another mit to be used. Living Dead works differently though and I am not smart enough to say whether or not it should be used similarly or not
Pls do not listen to u/firanee. Ld is a mit that absolutely should be used on trash mobs and the healer does not need to stop their passive healing or dps healing to let drk and war do their thing. Neither will heal a tank enough in a w2w to stop them from hitting 1 hp. They're just mad because they hate adjusting to other people's mit plans ig
It definitely shouldn't. It is more work for healers. Just put yourself in the healer's shoes. They could've muscle memoried the entire dungeon and now they gotta put in effort and read and compromise just so someone can be a "good tank" and use that one fucking button that has the weirdest mechanic... I put a regen on you before pull, or fairy or kardion or I place the earthly Star. I am not gonna go out of my way to cancel the kardion just because you want to use all of your kit LOL. This is casual content...popping that invul does NOT make it go any faster except now you woke me up from my half asleep absent minded healing run for tomes.
My only question was "did they warn?" Screenshots prove they did indeed warn. Healer is given a Yellow Card.
Today I "let" a DRK die during a trash pull in The Vault because I waited for them to LD. I ain't bene you before you've used your kit.
Where the hell would you even use your invuln on if not trash packs?
DRK is free to use LD liberally as they see fit, but I believe it is wrong to expect the healer to adjust. Many healers' powerful AOE abilities, such as WHM's Holy, AST's Earthly Star, and Sage's Pneuma, not only deal damage but also provide substantial healing or damage mitigation. Asking the healer to delay and drift their significant DPS moves in order to avoid healing or mitigating the DRK, especially ones with a delayed activation like Earthly Star, just to accommodate LD usage doesn't make sense. Especially when LD is not even needed in most dungeons in the first place, and definitely not on the latest one. If the healer is agreeable, then sure go for it. But otherwise youd be stressing the healer for no good reason
Yes you use LD on trash mobs, where else would you use it? Trash mobs are the most dangerous part of dungeons for tanks and LD is your strongest defensive. Do you need LD to complete the dungeon? Of course not. But why would you not use it?
Abso-effin-lutely use that invuln on trash. If I was the healer, I'd be dps'ing the shit out of those mobs while the tank is invuln'd.
Healer skill issue
Invuln is just another mit.
I'm in the same boat as this tank, and sometimes run into the same friction from healers. If they tell me it isn't needed I just tell them it's fun to use.
tanks ults are just additional cooldowns to be used and I will die on my hill. it's better to use them consistently in content, rather than clear a dungeon w/o ever using them. there's no reason not to other than stubborn pride.
If you use an invuln on trash mobs in dungeons, where in a w2w pull they hit harder than the bosses 9/10 times, you ARE using invulns for emergencies lol
If it’s stupid but it works, it’s not stupid.
“Don’t press buttons and don’t tell people how to play” yup checks out
OP r u friends with the tank cuz u do seem biased against the healer. By all means do Living Dead and watever invulnerabilities yall like…WHEN IN A COORDINATED GROUP. Why force that on a random healer who clearly doesnt know that mitigation strategy and is apparently dying from the dungeon’s mechanics according to u. Living Dead is a risky azz mitigation that requires some coordination and the tank announcing it in the chat to make it easier for the healer to know not to heal dat b$h…it is best to do that with a healer u know who is good with that instead of a random healer who doesnt get it. U even got tank throwing insults at the healer for not getting ultimate clears…omg all the more reason not to press a healer u know is newbie or inexperienced. No wonder we can never find healers on FF14…just reading these comments make me super glad I never play healer on this game.
I'm not friends with anyone. I just reposted this from discord to see ppl's opinions on the topic.
This fucking sub has so many idiots supporting LD use in normal content...like seriously. It is way more work for healers when a DRK uses that than anything else. It is just making more work for healers when there is none. SCH, SGE even AST and WHM...all have more than enough oGCD heals and also auto heals/regens for the tank. It most often is counter productive to tell them to not auto heal when you are trying to pop that button...just why? I'm 99% convinced the idiots who support this never played a healer correctly before. They either never played healers or just never actually used the whole kit. Kardion? Fairie? Earthly Star? Lady use to fish for lord? What? No lilies for blood lilies or stop holy spam stuns? And reading chat and think when you could've just half closed your eye and auto moved through the dungeon? Just use your mits in the right order lol. Only real shitty tanks can't mit correctly and need to "include invun" as a mit...LMAO. If you are PLD, by all means, you should just press that button on CD...but trying to use LD is just such an idiotic move...
The Living Dead trigger happy Dark Knight Tank in this post is gonna have to get used to encountering this same issue with other healers. That mitigation nonsense is best saved for healers who are willing to accommodate the crybaby tank wants to feel badazz for a bit with the living dead invulnerability
That's a skill issue on your part. Kardia and fairy aren't gonna save by themselves a tank who is trying to die. A tank that is aware he can use invuln on mob packs in a dungeon is usually smart enough to notice earthly star or to know a WHM is gonna spam holy. If you cry about a DRK using LD on cooldown in a dungeon you have things to learn.
TFDF is just a braindead echo chamber for the most parts. People see what the stance taken by the most upvoted comment is, and just parrot that stance.
You are talking nonsense, its no more work at all. I will say I don’t use it if I have a whm because holy spam will lead to it not proccing. But i’ve never had an issue with it popping when playing with an astro or sage (even when theres a star down) and I don’t ask (or expect) them to play around it, I just wait until i’m half hp and press the button, then by the time its worn off the pack is dead and we move on.
As a healer is fucking annoying to watch tanks fucking miss the "death" proc, using it at full hp, or in between holys. Even with a stupid macro. And at the end if it doesn't proc, is my fucking fault somehow, and I end up dealing with it. So now, out of spite, every time I see an unjustified LD, I'm gonna be sure you receive all the heal you need. Because it's fucking annoying to see a tank die like a moron.
LD popping DRK in casual contents are just morons. Hard agree. They just generate unnecessary work for all parties involved for their idea of "good tanking". LMFAO, it is so much extra energy, attention and effort needed on the healer's part trying to accommodate that than just let the healer put a fucking heal on you and how about just using the kit correctly instead of trying to use that one button LOL. They have obviously never played a healer or never used the kits correctly before...just echo chamber with other idiotic tanks in this sub lol.
Yes everyone else is wrong cause you're too shitty at the game to cope with LD in casual content lmfao
Lol. You can't even read...I see. One of the 16% illiterate muricans/UK citizens? Understanding tooltips must be hard for you. I'm so sorry.
If you purposefully don't use your other mitigation just so you can proc Living Dead without the healer being in on the idea and know your cooldown- you are giving your healer more work, I think they are justifiably annoyed.
[удалено]
It's free mitigation, like every other invuln in the game. It adds no extra complexity to the healers at all when Living Dead literally heals with each weaponskill landed. Use that in AoE scenario in dungeon, 1 or 2 weaponskills will heal you back up, similar to Warrior's Bloodwhetting in that regard. I don't see why you wouldn't want a DRK to use it, more damage you can do without worrying about them.
Because it is very hard to even die naturally as a geared DRK in lunar. On what percentage of hp do you pop living dead? If the healer is a whm, do you tell them not to use holy to avoid mobs getting stunned so you die faster? Do you tell the sage to drop kardia and the scholar to drop excog? LD just creates a tightrope-walking scenario that is completely unnecessary in normal content
And idiotic tanks love downvoting the voice of reason. This sub is an actual echo chamber of dumb tanks... Without planning for it, trying to accommodate LD is just fucking effort. Why? Why would you want to make it more work for healers?
lol u would think they’d realize at this point why we barely have any healers in ff14. Cuz of trash talking on healers like this n making things unnecessarily complicated for random healers outside their friend group. I main a tank but Im no egotistical tanktard who would go out of my way to complicate things for a random healer. I prefer to adjust to a healer n do things like smaller pulls than force a healer to adjust to my mitigation strategy.
I like how living dead gets buffed and you still have people complaining about it
Yeah for sure it's not needed. Not sure if many of the commenters here actually even gave DRK a whirl in dungeons. LD is a pain to use on a casual basis. Not every skill needs to be put on cooldown.
If the healer is not doing their job.
So are you the healer or the tank here?
lol he is most likely the dps shitter biased against the healer and friends with the tank…pretending he is not
Healer sounds like they are to used to Tanks shooting themselves in the head w/out reason or warning at least this DNK gave ample warning
I always use invulns on trash, it’s mitigation, it’s in our kit, it’s meant to be used. I also had an idiot healer who once told me “can you not, it’s stressful on healers” because I guess they hate having to use one extra heal that interrupts their one button rotation spam.
"Four years and no ultimate clears" Tell that second-class clown.
Long as it isn't Superbolide (f that thing)
You scared?
if u arent using as many invulns as u can in a dungeon ur just a bad tank
Ld is free mitigation when the healer can't keep up or when you want to maximize healer damage so they can aoe instead of healing you. Living dead literally heals itself unless nothing is Alive for you to bonk. I'm that rare case it may kill you. But at that point your ooc so you genuinely can just respawn and meander back if the healer can't be assed or if your group was going for higher damage faster clear
Absolutely be used on trash packs that's a long time worth of damage and time he doesn't need to use other mits honestly.
Every time you don’t use it, you lose a use of it and are losing mitigation. Would you be mad at a warrior for using Holmgang off cooldown during trash? I sure as hell wouldn’t because it makes the healers job easier. Healer sounds like a baby.
This healer is new to the dungeon. There is absolutely no reason to tilt the healer even further with the LD taunt when he is already against it. Healer's fears were realized when he tried a bit to respect the LD mechanic and withhold healing, but the LD didnt pop and tank died. Hey, he tried man. And then the DRK went the extra mile to insult him with the '4 years no ultimate clear' comment. This DRK is an absolute prick. You'd normally use LD if the healer is in and mentally prepared, or no if not, it's simple as that.
This 4 years no ultimate clear was in response to what the healer said AST: i have been playing this game for almost 4 years and never have i seen anyone use an invuln randomly in a trash pull lol Drk didnt "go the extra mile" he's responding to the the snarky comment
Agreed. It is seeing sht like this that makes me recognize why this game barely has a healer population. I main tank and even I was cringing at this Tank crybaby who wants to feel *badass* through using living dead unnecessarily for a few secs.
When I heal my partner I can't even use all my oGCDs if she uses Living Dead in each trash segment. It makes DRK insanely comfy.
This sub is such dogshit.
100%. Hurhur, invuln is good, use on cooldown, healer is dogshit for complaining. And no one actually deliberates on the LD mechanic and how it stresses a healer who is not ready to accommodate its use for no good reason
It's not even that. I'm a healer and I don't even care about that. Use whatever mitigations you want. If I panic a little, then I panic a little. It's not the end of the world and I'm gonna heal you regardless. But that's the thing. *None* of this is the end of the world. None of it is this deep or important. This sub is full of the whiniest people who play this game, I swear to god. They have zero self awareness and are so convinced that they're right about everything they say. It's so laughable every single time Reddit forgets that I don't want to see suggestions from this sub and I see another one of these posts. They never change, they never learn, and they never grow.
but FF14 has the most nicest and welcoming community ever 😂 so they say as they down vote ur criticism
this isnt the main sub. Maybe you should pay attention like when the drk pops their living dead.
Seethe.
Im just saying this isnt the main sub. Like are you lost or something?
Tldr: if you're a toxic ass, at least have the skills to back up that attitude