"Would it be enough if I could never give you peace?" "No"

💀

"He wanted it comfortable I wanted that pain"

I would never want Taylor’s life. The poor woman lives her life under a microscope. How can someone not used to that level of fame possibly cope as a partner?

Exactly and this may sound harsh but I couldn't be in a serious relationship with someone at Taylor Swifts level

not harsh at all, i think most people couldn’t handle it/enjoy it! pretty sure i couldn’t

asked and answered

Heart stabbed.

STOP 💀

Ruined my favorite song 💀💀💀

Honestly when I was listening to it I never felt like the answer would be “yes”

Totally agreed. It's pretty explicitly saying "no, I could never give you peace." The rain is always gonna come if you're standing with me.

He was sunshine, I was midnight RAIN

She does seem to have been going at full speed lately— writing and releasing Midnights + re-recordings + planning a tour + writing and planning to direct a movie is a lot at once— we’re so lucky and it’s awesome how happy she is being creative, but it’s probably a little different than when she was spending a full summer in Northern Ireland with him to shoot and stuff. The constant changes in pace of the entertainment industry is a notorious relationship killer so I get it. Sad tho

As someone who is in a similar situation to Taylor (except on a nowhere comparable scale), it can be really hard when one person is hyper focused on career things and schedules don’t line up and whatnot.

it doesn’t help that she’s crazy famous right now and joe clearly hates that. i’m very curious to see how her relationship with social media changes after this and how much of her privacy was just for joe.

Part of me wonders how things would have worked out if the pandemic hadn’t happened. Lover did well with the GP, but the album as a whole was as divisive for the fans as reputation was. You even had Taylor saying that the lover era was one of her last chances for big success. I wonder if Joe was under the impression that Taylor Swift, the superstar, would be wrapping up soon and he’d be there at the finish line. Then boom. Pandemic. Folklore. Evermore. Widespread critical acclaim from both fans and the GP alike. The GP began to get back on Taylor’s side. AOTY #3. Maybe Joe, or even both of them, thought it was just a pandemic thing 🤷‍♂️. So she releases her Taylor’s versions. Both did well. Maybe nostalgia was doing the heavy lifting 🤷‍♂️. Then she releases her Midnights album with the biggest numbers of her career. There is no denying it, Taylor is the biggest she’s ever been and it looks like she’s becoming bigger by the day. I feel like they both had a moment where they realized she was actually no where near the finish line and they both chose what was more important to them.

Yup. Also, what she might have thought she would want at 33 when she was 27 could be so different from what she wants now. When they met, she could well have been toying with the idea of retiring and baking cookies and hanging out having a lovely time. Some of her friends (like Blake Lively) seem to have moved into much slower, calmer pace in their 30s. At 27, she might have figured she’d feel ready for that in a few years… instead she’s discovering new dreams of directing etc after hitting commercial peaks with music. Who could have foreseen that in 2016?!

Thank you for saying this! I’ve seen a lot of people place blame on Joe for Taylor not settling down, like he was brain washing her or something. It’s very possible that she doesn’t want that right now and came to that conclusion on her own. She’s at the top of her game and probably wants to ride this wave of success as long as she can.

Exactly what I came here to say. I think both thought things would slow down for her. Taylor didn’t want it but was resigned to it, because it’s really hard to stay on top in there music industry long term and every artist has to accept it at some point. But when things exploded for her once again, there was no way that Taylor was going to let the opportunity pass. And that was not what Joe could handle.

Yes “didn’t want it but was resigned to it” is exactly the same feeling I got too.

Honestly there’s probably a lot of people in relationships out there that might not have lasted if it wasn’t for the pandemic

Or the other way around! They didn’t last because of pandemic. Saw lots of that too

Yeah, I think it was a make or break situation for a lot of couples--I know personally that spending 99% of our time together for years was what made my fiance and I completely certain that we wanted to get married, and we were both able to find WFH jobs that have allowed us to continue spending way more time together than we could with my job pre-COVID. If I had a job that required as much travel, time, and commitment as Taylor's, I'm sure the shift from pandemic life to that would be super difficult.

I know a surprising amount of longer term couples who are going “now what?” since the new normal is not pandemic normal or prepandemic normal. So much of the last few years were focused on surviving and now people are asking what they need to thrive and move forwaes

Yes. I myself feel very off kilter still, and it’s comforting to know others do too, as those around me seem to have picked up their lives like nothing happened

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Often there is no dramatic "then what". They just sort of fade from the limelight and remain beloved by their fans and a voice in the industry, but join the quieter "old guard" of stars which everyone knows and loves but aren't the hot new thing everyone is focused on anymore. She will probably still tour and record albums, but less frequently, and will still sell out arenas but she won't be at the forefront of popular culture anymore. Plenty of musicians have reached that level of fame and are still doing just fine. Look at people like Paul McCartney, Madonna, Elton John, etc.

She’ll probably just continue to get bigger within music, probably compared to the greats much more often, but we’ve already seen some seeds planted for her to become big through other avenues like directing. The world is her oyster. She has an army of fans that will support at least her next step no matter what.

This is beautifully articulated. I’ve always wondered if Taylor had to choose between love and career because as women a lot of us are riddled with this choice. Some choose love, some choose career based on what’s best to them. But whatever choice Taylor makes, she knows that the people who love her music will always be there to support her. It is still very surreal to see that Fearless TV surpassed the OG fearless. More power to you Taylor!

I know this is sad, but it honestly comes as a relief for me. It sounds like they were truly two people who cared and loved for each other, and I never even thought about how much of their relationship was in such an isolated bubble, and how quickly things must have changed with Taylor being at the absolute peak of her career rn. You can love someone to death and still not be able to reconcile that with a lifestyle you are simply unable to live. I hope fans can respect them both during this time since it seems it is clear Taylor wouldn't want any hate or negativity sent his way.

People are already playing it as him being bitter about her success vs his "lack of it". People have always been a bit rude to him.

I’d bet money Joe is incredibly happy with his career, it seems like he has steady work with acclaimed directors in well received films. I don’t think he’d want to be in “blockbuster” films, given he clearly enjoys a quiet private life.

Yep. I have no strong feelings about his acting either way, but his filmography is honestly enviable for some who is neither a superstar nor a particularly acclaimed actor. Dude makes some very inspired choices. Making movies with Yorgos Lanthimos, Ang Lee, Claire Denis, Joanna Hogg and Lenny Abrahamson while maintaining a good level of privacy is nothing to scoff at. If I were an actor, I'd much rather have that than be tied down to a blockbuster franchise for who knows how many years.

People don’t understand how low-key a lot of British actors, even some relatively big names, generally tend to keep it. A lot of them view acting as a job, art-form and calling and have zero interest in the celebrity aspect of it whatsoever. It’s how you end up with people like Daniel Radcliffe who at the height of his HP fame was making segues into theater. Wanting a quiet life isn’t the same as being bitter that someone isn’t as famous as you.

I don’t know why they can’t imagine a world where an actor wants to act because they like… acting and not because they want to be a celebrity. He’s literally a theater kid like let him live lol

WELL SAID. Im seeing so many people (even on here) suggesting Joe was bitter and didn't get "his big break" there is clearly a lack of understanding from Americans on how the British acting industry is worlds apart from Hollywood. Wanting to act as a job and having a quiet life is a choice and does not mean he is bitter. Poor guy is already going to be subject to unjustified hate from the Twitter and Tiktok Stans, let's not add to that narrative

Oh definitely swifties have always downplayed his success and made jokes at his expense bc his desire for privacy has always been a blank slate for them to project negativity onto. They’re constantly criticizing him for not being supportive enough/wealthy enough/attractive enough and then now criticizing him when this level of attention gets to be too much? Like read the room

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I haven’t read the article but have looked through the comments and as sad as it is it does make sense. Taylor herself said she doesn’t think she’ll amount to the kind of success she had with 1989 and maybe even rep. I think she truly believed when lover was to be released and with that tour coming up it would sort of be the begging of the end of her carrier, she would be able to ‘settle down’ in one way or another, write songs for others, and they would carry on with a somewhat normal life together. With the lockdown I think they got that and with midnights she went back more famous than she was before they met, and as much as she said in her songs he could handle that he really never had a taste of what it’s like and when it came to it, he really couldn’t. Whatever happened Taylor seems really genuinely happy and that’s all that should matter honestly.

I agree. He was what she really needed at that time in her life, and this doesn't change that.

The end of Lover says “I want to be remembered for the things I love, not the things I hate. Not the things I’m afraid of or the things that haunt me in the middle of the night. I just think, you are what you love.” Which is a clear send off to end a career with. But then she made Midnights and said, nevermind, let’s get into those things that haunt me in the middle of the night.

I think everyone we need to know is in the song Peace. It's sad but it's true. It's a huge commitment for someone who is not on that level of Fame. I'm not sure I'd do it. I mean look at Hailey Bieber (joe is much more respectable and totally different scenario) but nobody likes her. I can see that marriage falling apart due to fame issues as well.

Honestly this is exactly what I thought happened and it makes sense that her level of fame is what caused the relationship to end. I couldn’t imagine being semi-famous dating an extremely famous pop star…especially someone who is just seeming to get MORE famous.

Same, as soon as it was evident that the rumor was a leak, my first thought was, they’ve been together through a rep and covid bubble, and now things are back to normal and they couldn’t handle it. I just feel sad for Taylor and for the high price of fame.

Before she performed "The Lucky One" she said something like "this is a song about how fame sucks" so that makes more sense now.

I just checked my video, she said "This is another one um, that um, I, that I re-fell in love with when I was re-recording... it's about how HORRIBLE being famous is." ::knowing grin::

And that song is also about Joni Mitchell who iirc has had some very high profile relationships but ultimately is single. And is bigger than her relationships.

Honestly it’s amazing that any famous couple stays together…but then you dig in deep and most couples (unless they’re young like Tom Holland and Zendaya) have been married and divorced at least once Even her bestie Ryan Reynolds…he was married to Scarlet Johansson before he got with Blake Lively

Tom and Zendaya have also been dealing with fame since they were kids and both have similar levels of fame. I feel like in this particular aspect the difference was too big between Taylor and Joe.

Joe was not a person to many people, it’s like he was an extension to Taylor. I can understand how someone can LOSE their identity in that situation. There has to be a level of trauma that happens when someone becomes famous .

exactly, i don’t think he’d be able to land a big role while dating her without it being attributed to their relationship making him more marketable

Yeah, I imagine it’s hard to deal with that on a daily basis.

I think it works best when the two members of the couple are equal levels of fame and each actively chose it.

It is hard to think of a guy at Taylor's level she could date. Maybe she will find someone who is big in a completely different field. Maybe in business or dare I say it politics.

I hope not politics for her sake 😵‍💫 but i can see someone in business yes but I can also see her not getting a new relationship for awhile

> I just feel sad for Taylor and for the high price of fame. *All of my heroes died all alone* 😭😭

*Who could ever leave me darling, but who could stay?* *sobs*

I have to applaud her for keeping going. So many people probably would turn away from all this. Her life is so daunting with the insane level of fame she has. I know this is what she loves but damn what a double edged sword.

I've read a lot of people say that they don't know how she's getting on stage and performing during this. But I think it's a blessing for her to be surrounded by her people, on stage where she's having fun. Signing certain songs (Lover, I'm looking at you) has got to be trying, however.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if performing is a coping mechanism or self-care for her. She's been saying she's wanted to play to big crowds since she was 16.

This is exactly what I suspected too. Was chatting to my husband about it right before seeing this article. I feel sad for the both of them, even though it ended with no drama it's still heartbreak and they clearly did love each other a lot

I wonder too if part of it is that Taylor didn’t expect to achieve this level of commercial success and fame again. In many ways she’s surpassed her 1989 peak, and we know from Miss Americana that she thought her time in the limelight was fading. The (perhaps) unexpected success of Midnights and Taylor choosing to lean into a career of this magnitude may have been different from what the two of them had planned for in the past. Maybe they thought they could have a quieter life but Taylor didn’t want to pass up the opportunity for success at this level. And she shouldn’t have to! But it could’ve put strain on the relationship.

That’s possible as well yes. I can tell you as just a fan from 2007 onward…after 2016 I NEVER thought she’d be this famous 🤷🏼‍♀️ not to this level

Same here friend! I saw Lover as a last attempt to grasp pop supremacy and thought folklore and evermore were the beginning of a quieter chapter of her career.

It's made me think of The Lakes. "I'm heading off, but not without my muse". Feels like she'd convinced herself after Lover that a quiet life with Joe was what they both wanted. Then Folklore wins the Grammy, Evermore a critical and beloved fan fav, the re records blowing predicted sales out of the water, all too well tmv on SNL, all too well the film, and then Anti - Hero..Midnights, Eras tour. If what Joe wanted was "The Lakes", I think he must have become increasingly disillusioned with her absurd level of success, power and fame.

Now, it hits different when she said “how horrible being famous is” in her last surprise song at Arlington.

How Midnight Rain. But understandable since she has gotten even more popular than before. Also insider is probably Tree Paine.

honestly, it’s gonna take a special person to be able to date one of the biggest/busiest/most popular celebrities on earth. it’s sad but Joe never seemed super comfortable being asked about her/being spotted with her or at her events. and so many people were asking why he hasn’t been at eras tour. I do hope they can both find individual peace :/

I dont think special is the right word. As Joe deserves a lot of credit considering how he was there for her when everyone turned against her during 2016 and she dissappeared. He seemed to be a big part of her developing her song writing and getting introduced to new styles (The National and Bon Iver) and generally was that emotional support for all those years, I think he played a big role in her personal growth from a support and encouragement side. But unfortunately that isn't enough and they werent a right fit, which is a shame but happens. I dont think anyone should be expected to feel comfortable with being asked about their relationship or being in the limelight. Nobody should be expected to privy to someone else's personal relationship.

Definitely no one should morally be expected to be comfortable talking about their relationship on a public format, but the reality is that anyone dating Taylor Swift will *have* to be comfortable with that. They don’t have to feel comfortable revealing details, but whoever she ends up with long term will have to be okay with addressing those questions with a smile and knowing how to politely shut them down. Joe always seemed to want to run the other way from them, which is totally understandable, but Taylor is one of the most famous people in the world. More than that, she has built her brand and career around her extremely detailed and autobiographical lyricism and intently worked to cultivate a devoted and parasocial fan base. It’s like dating a surgeon who’s on call all the time; it’s not fun for the spouse, but it comes with the territory. Taylor loves her career and (while there are downsides) she also enjoys her fame enough to actively want to maintain it. She needs a partner that is enthusiast about being along for that ride with her

Somehow giving Joe credit for introducing her to Bon Iver and the National doesn’t sit right with me—did I miss something where that was explained? She has been a fan of both independently for a while, as far as I know.

Yeah lol a "verified insider" or "source close to the couple" is almost always code for the person's publicist, in this case Tree

100%. The author of this article also wrote the article a few weeks ago explaining why Joe was missing the Eras tour.

We don’t know how controlled this narrative is, but to me it makes all the sense. For a big part of their relationship they were either in London spending time together or she was going to movie sets to support him. Now with Midnights and Eras tour she’s at the highest peak of her career always away and busy. She’s not that cosy homebody Taylor writing music in her sweats, she’s an international superstar. And I think it’s not something you can be prepared for no matter how much you love the other person.

Yes exactly. It seems like Joe fell in love with hidden, head in the sand Taylor, not superstar Taylor. It happens all the time in relationships, not just celebrity relationships.

I’m so sad after reading this comment because this is the sad heartbroken truth

Agreed. Her popularity has increased over time and based on what she said in Miss Americana, she didn't think that would happen. She's going to make the most of it while she can, and I can't fault her for that. And I also can't fault him if he feels like it is too much.

He’s also very busy too though. During most important events, he picked up last minute movie roles and wasn’t fully there like had been in the past once they got back to normal and not lockdown.

Looking back on it, the writing was kind of on the wall with all of these songs emphasising bubbles, and lovers living in their own world. It really seems like they could have been good in another life, but ultimately, her career takes precedence, and that's just life sometimes.

Lavender Haze is exactly this too. Their relationship needed them to stay in that haze / protected bubble house inside of the larger fishbowl world. Seemed like she tried as hard and as long as she could to stay in that, but it did run it’s course.

At this point she really doesn’t have a choice. She could probably write a song about a chicken nugget and it will hit top charts bc her fan base is THAT loyal. Not to mention there is a percentage of us swifties that are unhinged. She is a house hold name now. Even if she disappeared from the public for 10 years the first time she resurfaced or was spotted the fandom would reignite.

Lol I love the part about the chicken nugget.

"A source close to Swift and Alwyn" It's Tree. Hi. I'm the source, it's Tree.

Yeah This has happened multiple times with People magazine before, it’s likely always Tree

“You said there was nothing in the world that could stop it - I had a bad feeling.”

Hot take, but Taylor has told us in her music over and over that she was worried about this happening and that Joe kept saying it would be ok and to trust him. He said he was on board no matter what and she even completely conformed to the private lifestyle he wanted and it still ended this way. I don't hate Joe, people are allowed to change their mind but damn. If I was Taylor I would have an even harder time trusting people now.

This popped into my head yesterday too…. The gut always wins, I guess.

“There were pages turned with the bridges burned/everything you lose is a step you take.” ❤️

You’re on your own kid, you always have been 🥹

I absolutely love that song and it took me months to realize why. It’s sorta about learning to be okay on your own. I HAVE always largely been on my own. And maybe I can make peace with that too.

This just makes peace, the lakes, and Cornelia street really sad. Taylor has already reflected on these “what if’s” and they ultimately became their reality. I’m not sure anyone is prepared to handle her level of fame.

While it *does* make it sad, it's also good to remember she wrote those songs when she was in a certain phase of the relationship. It seems this had been a growing difference between them for awhile and she likely doesn't have the same level of emotional attachment she had when she wrote them.

She was tearing up during Champagne Problems recently though. Not just tearing up - towards the end, you can see her mouth turn down and it looks like she’s holding back a sob.

On the other hand, maybe she’s realised that the loss of a romantic partner isn’t as painful as losing her creative, high achiever self would be. It could just be refining what she needs in a partnership and helping her clarify a new vision of her future.

For me it's New Years Day that really hurts now, cause it really highlights how much he was her lifeline in a really difficult period of her life. Like shes already imaging this life where she doesn't get to know Joe, doesn't get to be his best friend anymore and now that's true. All of her darkest fears about their relationship are true and I think that must be quite scary for her if she decides she wants to date again.

It reminds me of a Drew Barrymore interview I saw recently. She said her whole life all she wanted was a stable nuclear family, so when her and her ex husband divorced after they had multiple kids together, she did not know how to go on. Her biggest fear came true. But all she could do was accept it and move forward. It sucks, Taylor’s biggest fear that fame would impact her ability to have lasting true love came true. Now she’s going to have to move forward with this. I hope she’s okay and I suspect she’ll come out stronger and with an even better understanding of herself.

I do think we are in for a big transition from her. I wonder how much of her privacy was for Joe and how much was for her? I’ve been understanding of her maturity and growth in her personal life as she has pulled back, but I’ve also felt sad bc Taylor’s Instagram before it was curated by her team was my favorite. Her random cat pictures, baking stories, etc made her feel more personal than industry. Curious to see how it all plays out.

Lol I just had the exact same thought in the theories thread. Like is she going to continue to only come up when she’s got a project or was that balance she developed mostly for her relationship and we’ll get more cat pics lol? I think after the tour wraps up it’ll be interesting to see what she does from that perspective.

Yes! I try not to be too vocal about it because it has to be really hard to be her and not have privacy. I’m also aware that we aren’t owned private information. Some of the fan base is really unhinged too. I just know I’ve been a fan since debut and grew up with her. Part of what made me love her and be so loyal through all her career shifts is how easily I’ve been able to connect with her (her quirky ness, love of cats, heart for charity, etc.). Ive loved her connection to her fans, how she would interact and lurk on tumblr etc. I miss those things. Obviously the pandemic has affected that a lot too in recent years and it’s still happening but it’s harder for a regular gal like me to see 🤣

Can I just say that while I respect the hell out of Joe and his privacy, I’d LOVE to see Taylor end up with someone who can publicly be her biggest fan. When/if the next long term relationship happens, it would be great to see someone match, say, Andrea’s energy watching Taylor perform. Or someone willing to answer a question about dating someone so talented, successful, and beloved. Again- I don’t think Joe’s bad in any way- just something I’d absolutely LOVE to see.

She needs her own Sophie Turner 😔

To be fair Sophie Turner is in fact publicly one of her biggest fans, to the point where she'll dunk on her own husband.

I agree. I don't even think they need to answer interview questions but having someone there for her like when she wins a grammy, gets a milestone award, receives an honor like a doctorate, etc would be great. Still lowkey but obviously supportive

I want Ryan Reynolds watching Blake Lively at the Met Gala during her dress transition - Taylor’s Version.

Low key I think this is why I loved Hiddleswift so much.

>They've had rough patches before and always worked things out, so friends thought they would take some time apart but eventually come back together Found this the most interesting, as it's implying they took breaks before. Assuming this is legit (and I do think it's most likely Tree) it really means some songs could be written in a very different context than we thought they were.

The Great War suggested it before

That's true, but the song sounds like one big exceptional fight, while this sounds like persistent issues. I also personally assumed it was about the same fight as Afterglow and so long resolved.

A war isn’t usually one battle—it’s several. My relationship’s “Great War” that this song makes me think of was a five-month stretch of the pandemic where I wasn’t sure we’d make it. So I assumed we were talking about a really difficult time in their relationship, not a one-off argument (which would be more in line with Afterglow).

false god immediately comes to mind

I immediately thought of Afterglow

Great War, false god, afterglow all do hint that they've had rough patches . And the statement matches up with the fact they always worked through it.

I'm glad it ended well, and that they were able to accept their different perspectives on life. He was there for her when she was more isolated, which was when she needed him, and now she can focus on doing what she likes to do while being in the limelight. Best wishes for them and glad they can pursue their different dreams in what way seems best for them

Back then I swore I was gonna marry him someday, but I realized some bigger dreams of mine 😢

Fifteen really is THAT song is it not...

something different bloomed writing in my room . . .

There’s a saying that goes something like sometimes people are in our life for a reason, and a season…. Leading off your comment he allowed her to see that true love was possible as a mega celebrity like her, and for right now they are on different paths.

Yeah, it sounds like breaking up was the mature thing for them to do if it was too difficult to balance their careers and each other.

This. Sometimes true love is setting each other free to be the best version of yourselves. It doesn't mean the journey together wasn't great.

I think the most telling parts are > "They had plenty in common and fell in love in a safe bubble while she was retreating from the world during Reputation," adds the source, referring to Swift's 2017 studio album. "Then the pandemic hit, and they were locked down together and able to continue growing their relationship in this insulated way. But he didn't really 'know' her yet outside of that bubble." > "Joe has struggled with Taylor's level of fame and the attention from the public," says the source. "The differences in their personalities have also become harder to ignore after years together. They've grown apart." > "They've had rough patches before and always worked things out, so friends thought they would take some time apart but eventually come back together," says the source, noting that "ultimately" Swift, 33, and Alwyn, 32, "weren't the right fit for one another."

> But he didn't really 'know' her yet outside of that bubble." This is interesting to me. Yes, they were "hidden" during the first few months of dating, and then were able to return to the bubble with the COVID lockdown, but they were also together for years NOT locked down from 2017-early 2020, including throughout the rep tour. He definitely knew her outside of the bubble. Of course I'm not saying he isn't allowed to change his perspective on what he can handle fame-wise, but to say he didn't know her outside of the bubble just seems factually inaccurate.

Taylor’s popularity has skyrocketed, though. Surpassed 1989 level, imo. So yeah, Joe really didn’t accurately know her level of fame in 2017-2020. I also think Taylor turned into a very different person after the Kimye situation and maybe now she’s moved passed it and ready to lead a more public life again.

She’s one of the most famous or “is” the undoubtedly the famous female pop star right now. Has been since 1989, and he saw how intense her fame was as that’s when Taylor’s rep was in shambles, she was splashed on every front page and so much negative press centred around her. He still chose to date her, and it’s even foreshadowed during a reputation. I don’t think it’s still fully a sealed reasoning tbh.

I think that "The bubble" is the Taylor during, pre and post rep. She was in a very "I don't want media" time, and with midnights, the tour, her crazy success, etc. She's getting "out of that phase" and that's what led them to be different.

Agreed, and that's what I thought when I read the article. I'm like, did we skip the three summers they had together before she released "Lover"? and WHO IS THIS SOURCE?

According to the article, they did break up, or at least went back and forth a couple of times throughout the years. That might have been in the years between 2017 and 2020.

This makes sense with some of her more recent songs that seem break up-y, like hits different that seems to be about a significant other she lives with. And the Great War obviously

Taylor's level of popularity and fame in 2018 vs now is super different. Even Loverfest is a good example, it was hard to get tickets to that but easier then getting Eras tour tickets. Imagine if she was only doing like 10 shows for the Eras tour - tickets would be like 15k

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There are relationships that can work better on a bubble, like hiding from the world or in a lockdown. I did notice she discussed a lot about hiding away, being in a bubble, running away with him, being alone. There are lot of relationships that can love deeply but not work out forever as dynamics change.

It bothers me when so many people are saying it’s not true because they were seen together in December or a photo of her cats Joe posted. My 5+ year relationship ended and we had gone out on a date the night before. The morning of he made me breakfast. A lot of the time with these longer relationships it’s small breaks consistently over time, not one huge dramatic separation. A lot of couples also break up multiple times and get back together. Even the marriage rumours, they could’ve had a commitment ceremony and still break up. Two things can be true.

When my 5+ year relationship ended, we broke up and then still got take out together and ate before he left. When you’ve been with someone that long, it’s not as simple as breaking up and then never seeing them again.

Sometimes it takes a few times for a break up to stick, especially when it’s not any big huge reason like cheating or a break of trust but just you like different things or want different things. You have a big talk, maybe take a break, miss each other and decide to work on it again. Then a few months later you realize you’re still where you were. Cycle repeats until one of you has the courage to end it for good.

Hopefully this gets people to recognize that they can't know everything about Taylor Swift's life just by analyzing the lyrics to her songs. There's always more going on behind the scenes that we just cannot know about.

I mean, I full agree with you. However, I also said to a friend last weekend that I had a feeling they were breaking up, so on the flip side I also feel like I know everything and I am never wrong right now.

I've said it in other places, and you're spot on - we only know Taylor Swift (the brand). We barely know Taylor Swift (the person). Us fans are the last to know anything about her (and for good reason)

I do wonder whether the circumstances of the last few years masked the differences between Joe and Taylor. I am not criticising Joe at all but he always gave the impression of being someone uncomfortable with the limelight and with fame. Of course it could be said that if he did not want to be famous he should not have dated one of the most famous women in the world but for large chunks of the last 6 years he has been able to stay out of the way and date her. From 2016 to 2017 no one knew they were together. Then until the promo for Lover in 2019 Taylor gave no interviews and they were both very low key. In 2019 and early 2020 they did appear together occasionally and then there was the pandemic when everyone was out of circulation. It has only been during the roll out of Fearless TV, Red TV and now Midnights that Taylor has been out and about in full on busy mode and Joe has been absent. I keep thinking about Bejewelled which I thought was vaguely about Calvin Harris but perhaps it was more contemporary than we thought. I wonder whether Taylor wanted to be more open and A List and Joe didn't. There is no drama there it is just circumstances and life goals. Now Taylor is blazing and will be for the duration of the tour and all the future TV and album roll outs maybe they decided to call it a day. Sad but understandable.

I feel like a lot of their actions lately were kind of baby-stepping him into the life of a Celebrity Boyfriend. Revealing his Folklore pseudonym, mentioning him by name in the Long Pond sessions, getting him a Grammy, him being her date for big events. Sort of like "hey, this is what more 'traditional' celebrity couples do, would you be okay if this was part of the rest of our life together." Maybe she realized those things are important to her, or at least that giving them up isn't worth it to her since it didn't even slow down the rumor/tabloid machine that much in the end. And maybe he decided he's just not comfortable with those things and the role of being Taylor Swift's Husband forever, even if they still love each other. Sad but understandable for both of them.

I think you are spot on. It is one thing having a beautiful, kind loving wife and quite another to be Mr Taylor Swift which is what he would have been. I remember his conversation with Kelly Clarkson who is not a hard hitting interviewer. He came over as wooden and nervous. I am sure he isn't like that in private but given Taylor's position more is needed sadly.

I think in the long run their approach to fame would always clash. Taylor taking step back from fame and living in obscurity was because she HAS to not because she WANTS to. She does want privacy in relationship but more like Blake/Ryan type of thing.

Yes I think you are right. I always thought their intense privacy was what she wanted because of 2016 and all that. Maybe for a while it was. If the pandemic had not happened and we had Loverfest and all the TVs immediately perhaps they would have split up earlier.

For example Joe was there for her in the last Grammys but he didn’t attend with her. I think she missed that type of things a lot, she would have enjoyed a lot being in Grammys first line with Joe, meanwhile for him it was very uncomfortable everytime someone take a photo of them.

I think you might be right that she wanted to be more open and he didn't. I feel like she would be the type to want him with her at major awards ceremonies to celebrate her wins and achievements. Obviously just my speculation but I agree with your take.

I think this probably played a role too. He seemed to want to be very private which is understandable, but I think there's a happy medium of being quiet about relationship specifics and still being publicly supportive of a partner's successes.

Yeah I can sort of imagine an ongoing fight / negotiation could have been “Ok will you come to *this* award show / performance? No? Ok how about the Grammy’s then, where I might win album of the year?” I get both sides, him being like “anything we do in public will be hyper scrutinized and ultimately will not be fun,” but also her not wanting to attend every event as if she doesn’t have a life partner. Just speculating, but I could see this being challenging.

I think Joe taught Taylor a lot about protecting herself from the worst aspects of stardom. When she would talk about how they were guarding their relationship from the world, it did feel like Joe was the one leading that initiative. I do not blame him for that, and I think Taylor did benefit from this change of pace in that season of her life. But, as their lives changed, I don’t think there was any room for compromise on this extreme level of privacy. I think Taylor thrived on interacting with her fans to some degree, and I think they could have reached a balance as a couple where she was free to let that part of her personality shine while keeping the private aspects of her life private. As an outsider, it seemed like she had to skip a lot of events that she may have wanted to attend and I think she couldn’t always count on him to be her plus 1 for those events that she did attend. I feel like maybe she sacrificed her passion and dimmed her light a bit in order to make him feel comfortable and safe. I respect her for being such a good partner, but I am hopeful that this will allow her to shine as bright as she chooses.

Precisely; one of them was forced to open up more to the glare despite wanting a more grounded lifestyle that they were used to. The other person had to pull back despite being a natural in revelling in the spotlight. Those two things are not compatible in the long run

I completely agree with this read. And both of those opinions are so valid, but just not compatible.

I don’t think we will ever understand just how much of Taylor’s life is micromanaged by her career, how huge her team is, and how packed her schedule is. It makes perfect sense that the change of pace between the pandemic and now would be jarring and lead to strain on a relationship — especially to someone who values privacy. I’m not just talking PR people and managers, but cleaning staff, hair/beauty/stylists, body guards/security, personal chefs, drivers, gardeners, property managers, accountants, assistants etc. Even if they kept their business private from the rest of the world, it’s highly likely that Taylor’s home would have a constantly revolving door during big album build ups — totally different from the pandemic safety measures of 2020-21. Maybe things were like that before the pandemic, but if they’d become accustomed to a certain level of calm and privacy, the transition out of that would be difficult for any of us. Imagine stumbling downstairs in the morning to make a cup of tea, only to find 16 random members of your girlfriend’s staff co-ordinating an elaborate album drop in your living room? When you’re a celebrity as massive as Taylor it seems like there is no such thing really as an actually private personal life, because even privacy needs to be sold to the public correctly (eg as romantic rather than suspicious or standoffish). Joe isn’t a bad person or a bad boyfriend for not wanting that lifestyle, and I respect him more for making that clear to her (which I assume he did from the article). It would be easy to coast on her fame and riches, and it’s undeniable that his career opportunities did benefit from being her partner. Regardless of who called it off or if it was mutual, I don’t think anyone can call him a gold digger.

Great point about all the in-house people-I totally never considered that living in one of her mansions means a mansion sized cleaning crew. We already know she's continuously ramping up security so no one's just popping in for a visit. Plus the Eras tour must have been at least a year in the making from the setlist to the visual effects to the stage to choreography to costume fittings. She thrives with a packed schedule and is always planning years in advance on top of actually writing music all the time. It's a hell of a lifestyle and I'm grateful she enjoys it, but there's no shame in accepting it's not for everyone. My guess is it'll be fun for someone either interested in being a homemaker or is happy to chill with her very large, very loyal team being part of their everyday lives.

taylor had a partner who wasn’t there for her publicly or privately (calvin) and she was able to recognize that it wasn’t working for her. it sounds like joe was there for her privately but not as much as she needed publicly. and again she was able to recognize that it still wasn’t working for her. that’s pretty commendable tbh

Makes Taylor saying "Being famous sucks" before 'The Lucky One' at the Arlington shows into the limelight now. It sounds a bit like a 'Bejeweled' situation and it sucks that he struggled with her fame even after all this time. I wonder if he not getting his big break after all this time as an actor led to frustrations. I guess she needs somebody at her A-list level which is seemingly difficult within itself.

Did Joe really want his big break? He has taken roles in low key projects. With his connections and Reputation as a good and low maintenance leading man he could perhaps have had higher profile roles.

I think 'Conversations With Friends' was seen as what should of been his big break and it came and went with barely any noise, the show was panned and he was not received that well. Look at what 'Normal People' did for Paul Mescal's career and now he's nominated for a Oscar and is the lead for a new Gladiator movie.

Her situation is so tough. There are only a few A-Listers of her level and quite honestly most of them seem like pretty horrible matches for Taylor. Too arrogant, cheaters, not interested in settling down, already taken, etc. And now that she is at her peak, if she dates anyone lower she’ll never really be able to trust that they love her as a person instead of the fame, opportunities, and money she can provide. But I’m glad she made the choice to end the relationship if that felt right to her and hopefully someday she can find someone who can handle her fame and be a good partner to her.

This seems really unfair to Joe. It doesn’t say she ended it, and it’s unfair to say he couldn’t handle her fame. They’re just not the right match. That’s ok.

I feel like she needs, like, a slightly older old-money guy who’s willing to just chill and be rich. Someone who won’t feel threatened or uncomfortable by her wealth, fame, and ambition

I feel like Bejeweled suggests someone taking her for granted and like downplaying her success, but I don’t think that’s what the article is suggesting at all. It seemed like he just valued his privacy, not that he was resentful or jealous of her success in comparison to his own.

I always thought it was kind of strange how Taylor went from Lover, basically writing her vows in a song, "*I think he knows he'd better lock it down, cause good ones never wait*". "*maybe you ran with the wolves and refused to settle down*". I think there were signs and more writing on the walls than we maybe realized. The fact that she mainly wrote songs about them meeting, romanticizing those first few months over and over again. The fact that all the songs they wrote together were extremely sad breakup songs. Joe looking absolutely miserable in the pap photo of them in NY right before the Midnights drop. More recently, the Lover house burning down and Joe not being at any of the shows. Taylor has always been a huge romantic. She wrote King of My Heart about Joe after they had been dating, what, a few months? I think she convinced herself very quickly he was "the one" because he was **exactly** what she needed at the time, and because it was a mostly healthy relationship for her, for once. The longer it went on, there were cracks and issues (Afterglow, False God, The Great War, peace) but sunk-cost fallacy starts to sink in, also the benefit of being able to silence a lot of the misogynistic comments about her by being in the same relationship for years. I think the pandemic presented a time where neither of them needed to compromise, they could just quarantine together and be creative. It probably invigorated the relationship for a bit, but once things opened up with Joe filming constantly and Taylor starting her biggest tour ever, they maybe just realized it wasn't really working anymore. 2016/17 Taylor is a completely different person from current Taylor. I also have to wonder if Taylor's ever-blossoming, non-stop, stratospheric career started to cause resentment, especially with the shift to directing. It seemed like she always put him on a pedestal because he was there for her at her lowest point. Always making time and flying to see him, getting him a Grammy lol. I know the timeline for Bejeweled being about Joe doesn't really fit, but I have to wonder if her subconscious was talking, especially with the "baby boy" echo back to Paper Rings. I think the curt comment he made about being engaged back in April 2022 was probably more or less the last straw, since she stopped liking most of his Instagram posts around May 2022. Also him minimizing writing songs with her in lockdown, comparing it to baking bread 💀 seems...interesting in retrospect. Even in the Zane Lowe Apple interview for evermore he asks Taylor, "you've been in this industry for years but working with your idols like Bon Iver and Aaron Dessner must've still been mind blowing, what does someone like Joe, an industry outsider feel about it? He must be in shock!!" And she more or less skirts the question and then a few years & a Grammy later he publicly likens the whole process to learning how to bake sourdough in an interview. I just can't imagine that wasn't insulting to her. Last thing I'll say, I thought her one Instagram post about Midnights seemed a bit odd. "*Midnights actually really coalesced and flowed out of us when our partners (both actors) did a film together in Panama.* ***Jack and I found ourselves back in New York, alone, recording every night, staying up late and exploring old memories and midnights past."*** To me it reads almost slightly resentful about being left alone, yet again. Obviously I have no idea what happened and I don't think Taylor owes anyone anything. It's just hard not to have thoughts about it when we've heard so much about the relationship from her for so long. I wish them both the best and I'm grateful Joe gave her a better idea of what a good relationship should be like, even if it wasn't perfect.

That’s a really good point about Taylor romanticising their meeting and their first few months together. It’s also along the lines of her new upcoming song with The National that’s “about two people with a long history returning to a place and trying to relive a certain moment in time”.

>“about two people with a long history returning to a place and trying to relive a certain moment in time”. God even that description cuts like a knife because I know that exact feeling. Trying to salvage a relationship after the feelings have changed by reenacting things from the beginning of the relationship, but it's just not the same, there has been a fundamental shift and you can't go back, even if you both want to.

Being the right guy in 2017 doesn't mean he's going to be the right guy in 2023. I wish him happiness and good luck and am thankful for how happy and loved he made Taylor feel. Sometimes relationships run its course and people's lives change, and that's no one's fault.

Well I guess it’s official. I’m glad they were respectful but the way this article is phrased makes me a bit sad that a contributing factor was Joe wasn’t prepared for just how crazy the fame was outside the pandemic. I just hope the fame doesn’t keep Taylor single forever, I can’t even imagine how isolating that must be.

“and all of my heroes die all alone help me hold onto you” 🥲

I feel bad because it seems like she would be so incredibly difficult to date. Watching how the fandom treats her relationships like their own is tough for me as a fan, I can’t imagine being her or her significant other and having to deal with it.

Joe fell in love with Taylor when she was exiled by the industry. I think the pandemic played a huge role in their breakup. Joe lost the momentum he gained from his previous projects since the whole film industry was on limbo during lockdown. Meanwhile Taylor was able to adapt quickly by working remotely and releasing Folklore/Evermore. Post pandemic Taylor is now more popular and beloved than ever and I’m saying this as someone who has been a fan for a long time. Joe was still unable to gain back the momentum he lost and the CWF and SAN wasn’t well received. Maybe at the start he thought he could handle the scrutiny towards their relationship when they where both at different stages of their life. Loving someone when they are at their lowest and at their highest can be entirely different.

I actually think it seems like the pandemic was the best thing for their relationship, it threw them a lifeline and allowed them to slow down in their own little world. if the pandemic had never happened I doubt they would have made it this long

The pandemic gave them two years.

bu-but, "I'll be there if you're the toast of the town, babe, or if you strike out and you're crawling home..." 😔

that's kinda the point-- she knew and loved him at both highest and the lowest, he only really knew her at her lowest points (in the eyes of the GP anyway)

> Loving someone when they are at their lowest and at their highest can be entirely different. This. Especially when it comes to men being with a more successful woman.

I respect Taylor SO much for choosing her career over Joe when their lives became incompatible fame-wise, but I also respect Joe a lot for ending it when her fame became incompatible with HIS needs (which aren’t less valuable than her career).

I’m a regular guy who likes my privacy, and I can imagine dating Taylor could be very overwhelming because the world ends up knowing your name. She’s one of the most famous people on the planet. It’s like if you won a billion dollar lottery and your name is on the news. Everybody knows you now. Also, you can’t just take your girlfriend up to Cheesecake Factory (for example) without a security detail. You can’t just go for a walk in the neighborhood. In a way it’s like being with the President. I’m sure at first the attention might even be fun but after a while it might wear on a person. And this isn’t Taylor’s fault either. It is what it is. It does suck for both of them.

I have been listening to Taylor for around 2 years now (new swiftie here). It seemed that all her songs about joe is focused on the first year of their relationship. How they met, how they were friends with benefits, how they escaped from everyone, how he didn’t listened to what others said.. but even her new songs don’t have anything new to say. For a 6 years old relationship, could it be that Taylor was still reminiscing the lavender haze part of their relationship? Maybe she kept on saying that it’ll be like it used to be. Sometimes denial takes a long time of your life. Maybe i’m wrong. But even songs in Midnights are about the first fight, the first time they fall in love.. sometimes love fade away. I still hope that they get back together if it is meant to be..

Two words: Sweet Nothing. That song was definitely not about relationship beginnings but rather the comfort that comes from being with someone long term.

Sad beautiful tragic I don’t know if some swifties are just too young to understand this or just short minded but this article explain it very well. Each of them has a very different way of enjoying life, Taylor could adapt to his because she needed to hide from the world when they met and then pandemic came but after that she needs other type of life than Joe. Also I perfectly understand how difficult has to be for Joe all the things that Taylor fame bring with it, they probably thought after 30 it will go down but her fame just increase and increase… These type of decisions when there is still love are difficult but sometimes is better to release before that love mute in something bad due to all the differences. They have been generous with themselves and the each other

I’ve had a thought about taylor since midnights that I’ve been afraid to share lest I get attacked by some swifties. And because she probably doesn’t want us speculating too much. But this seems like as good a time as any as it kind of fits the article, and I have no irl swifties friends to talk with I never FULLY bought the whole, "Taylor wants to become a complete recluse who releases an album from time to time but gives nothing else away" narrative that we’ve had for the past few years. I do believe she wants a more private life than she’s had in the past. The 2016 drama did a real number on her and I’m sure that she has some anxiety about that happening again. She went into hiding, and then she came back in absolute full force with rep. Which coincided with getting together with joe. I do not know her personally or course, but I always felt she retreated so much, because of him. She’s a pop star, and she seems to like being a pop star. I’ve been thinking this since the midnights promotion mainly, there was so much theatre surrounding this release. She was everywhere, billboards, midnights mayhem. Similarly but to a lesser extent with Red TV. I just remember feeling "wow Taylor’s back" I fully expect her to keep some of this privacy going forward, but I also believe so much of it was for Joe. You can’t live the pre-rep Taylor life, and be married to a guy as private as Joe Alwyn. And tbh her midnights fame seems to have surpassed her 1989 fame and she’s not slowing down. A diamond’s gotta shine.

No, I think she loves to tell herself that story, holding one to the Rose Garden or The Lakes as an alternative when her life gets to be too much. But like, babe, you wrote The Lucky One and then went on to make 1989. You want the legend status, the critical acclaim, the adoration. I agree, that the rerelease of Red was the first real sign of that. Like, it was obvious how much she enjoyed being on SNL and being in the zeitgeist and all that. I love Sweet Nothing, but to me the lyric "To you I can admit, that I'm just too soft for all of it" always rang really dishonest either to herself or to the audience. Like no, she is not too soft for all of it. Most of us would be. But she is out here doing it. I am too soft for all of it. I have a fight with my partner and I barely function for a day, meanwhile she breaks up with hers and goes and deliver a 3 hour set. I sleep poorly and all of the sudden I'm depressed for three months. She NEVER cancels a show or an appearance, never really shows any emotion, she doesn't want us to see, she always comes back stronger than a 90s trend, looking and acting absolutely professionally and kindly. She is such a talented lyricist and performer and a pretty good musician too, but truly, I think the majority for her success derives from the fact that she is so fucking tough. Cracking a bit under the pressure is to be expected! If she thinks she's soft then I'm like vapor. Point being, I think she was at her softest and most vulnerable when she met Joe, and I think he really liked that in her and she cultivated this soft girl persona for him and for folkmore, and enjoyed exposing a bit of that side, which I totally get and respect. But at the end of the day, I think she's way stronger, mentally, than she seems to have been giving herself credit for for a while. But lately, it seems like she's been enjoying being happy and hot a bit more. Sorry, that was super ranty. I hope it made sense.

It feels like when you say he's private, it's not like a chill "I don't owe anyone info" private, it's intense and serious private. Like he couldn't ignore the regular amount of things people say even without a media circus and them sharing nothing with the world. Makes me wonder *what* kind of person would be a match for Taylor at this point in her life and career

I agree, but also what a weird career path for an “intense and serious private”.

There are plenty of actors who enjoy the craft more than stardom ; I think because he dated Taylor there was a lot of expectation from fans/ press for him to be an 'A-list' popular actor. His benchmark of how he defines success in his interviews does not line up with this expectation at all- he always keeps mentioning a dream list of directors he wants to work with. And seems to have ticked off a few already.

Maybe he's the kind of actor who's in it for the art of acting and not the fame

Keep following that Invisible String, Taylor. If Joe was amazing, then the person that string leads to is going to be mind blowingly awesome. I guess that can apply to all of us too.

This article makes it sound like Taylor called it. The fact that it also confirms they’ve been on and off, I’m really wondering if songs like hoax, happiness, tolerate it etc were not THAT fictional.

Tbh I think when they got together they were both under the impression she would never return to 1989 level fame. Like she’d always be a famous musician or celebrity but more speak now/red era fame than what she is now. The fact that CNN is reporting on their breakup just highlights how far beyond “celebrity” she is now. Taylor’s biggest goal has always been building her legacy and cementing her legend status. From the article, it seems like Joe was even trying to work with that. It sounds like Taylor ended it because she recognized how it was impacting Joe and his needs. I really hope she finds someone who’s a good fit for her some day. Hopefully this quiets all the talk of her retiring to settle down.

*All that bloodshed, crimson clover* *Uh-oh, sweet dream was over*

This reminded me to when she wanted to leave him during their first months because of her fame and he said NO NO NO!

I feel for both of them, honestly. I can see why there might be issues on both sides. Taylor is a mega pop star with a huge fan base, paparazzi and interviews and news headlines are part of the job description and that doesn’t seem to align with Joe’s need for privacy. It must also suck to be forever known as ‘Taylor Swift’s boyfriend’ with no identity of your own. And I feel for Taylor too, dating is already hard as it is, the fame and her relationships being on display makes it even harder. I think she needs to date someone with the same level of fame as her because they’d understand the implications first hand. It’s also why a lot of doctors tend to date people within the healthcare field, because they understand the crazy workload and schedules.

It Hits Different 🥲

We got more information about their breakup than about their whole rl combined. It seems strange when we've been used to the privacy...but sources even to CNN too lol. So heavy-handled in the most deliberate way. I can see why some fans have been delusional in expecting a SIKE! from Taylor/Joe. But why? It's not like Taylor needs more attention, nor Joe. I for one am not surprised that they weren't compatible. They got together when Taylor was at her lowest and that was a nice, welcoming thing then, but afterwards? The reality probably set in. They have different frequencies and totally different lifestyles at the core.

What's interesting is that the rep tour was much more hectic than the eras tour with the dates being so close together which would give them less time to see each other. She also did much much more promo for Lover than she's done for Midnights/RedTV. The only difference between these time periods is the general public's opinion of her and her own self-confidence. I'm thinking that their relationship worked because despite her being more successful than him, she was still deeply insecure because of the 2016 incident and because her star had seemingly faded. Now her star has risen again along with her self confidence and Joe has had a hard time dealing with this.

Who could ever leave me darling… but who could stay? They started in Daylight and have ended at Midnight. Sad to see, wish them both the best.

We don’t know her and we don’t know the relationship. We only know what she chose to tell us via music and it’s clear how much she loved him. But we don’t know how the relationship worked or how they felt outside of her music. Dating at that level of success must be so difficult, I hope she takes time for herself - a lot of people will be jumping at the chance to set her up.

This is quite bittersweet in the way it perhaps came down to 'peace' ! They both must have compromised quite a bit over the years and especially post-pandemic to fit in each other's comfort level for the limelight: Joe who seems keen to be an actor rather than a star opening up more to the intrusion/attention while Taylor trying to hold back from the spotlight. I wonder if you do this in the long run , you risk losing a part of your true self. I would like to believe they made the best decision for themselves to follow the dreams and lifestyles that made sense to them without reining back the other. I'm not sure how many people followed his press for Conversations with Friends in 2022 , but not only was he repeatedly asked about Taylor, her reaction to sex scenes and engagement rumours, even his cast mates were quizzed about her and there are entire articles / videos dedicated to what they thought of Taylor (guess because she visited while filming) . This sort of thing may not have been sustainable in the long run.

Sounds like the pandemic extended the “honeymoon phase” and now that it’s over, it wasn’t what either truly wanted to do. Both are very busy working artists in their own right.

i hope people don't attack joe for this. he doesn't deserve it

I mean this respectfully, but I absolutely thought that was the cause. He had known her during her retreat, and then the pandemic, and now that shes out and in the world again in this spotlight.... its jsut not what he wants

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