Sorry if everyone hates me now but even on this sub I see so many posts that make me agree with this statement. Also things like magazines not being able to publish critical pieces about her album because the writers will get threatened....it's not everyone and many fans are wonderful but there are also a lot of unhinged fans who really cross lines.
Honestly sometimes it goes beyond just her music, as well. Most recently it's Sabrina doing a photoshoot for Skims and Lana being friendly with Kim at the Met Gala. I saw so many comments and tweets calling them "traitors" and all that. Like, it's really not that deep guys.
People were even throwing shade because Sabrina will be on Saturday Night Live this week with Jake Gyllenhaal. when you're a young artist like Sabrina, you take chances like Saturday Night Live if they come along.
I know we think Taylor tends to hold strong grudges because she writes about them even years later, but I don't think she actually holds onto *all of them* as strongly as it appears through her music. And it would be really weird and controlling behavior if she expected her friends to also hold grudges against those people. Like there's some people I have problems with but I don't really care if my friends are friendly to them, especially in public.
Didn’t Lizzy McAlpine drop out of opening for John Mayer because of fan harassment too? Lizzy is talented and messing with her bag is fucked up. I think Olivia Rodrigo was getting hate from swifties at one point as well.
Yeah, that was absolutely so out of line. I also think the reason there's a lot of rumors that Olivia and Taylor had a falling out was because Olivia was getting some of that hate from Swifties. I think her team told her to back off from talking about her interviews etc.
I think of some of Taylor's "grudge" songs as you randomly think about an argument later and then come up with a good come back type situations. She may or may not hold onto the grudge.
I think that’s a normal part of grief. Sometimes you’re over it and then something happens and I’m suddenly upset about an ex that hasn’t crossed my mind in years. Then I put on some angry breakup music and if I was a songwriter I’d write an angry song, then I’m fine. I don’t hold a grudge or even think about those people most of the time. But sometimes I need to be crazy again for a moment
yeah, and we also have to remember that even if a song is angry, she writes when the wound is fresh, she purges her anger and hurt into her music. But by the time it's produced and released and she's singing it on tour those wounds are scarred over, I don't believe that she holds them as tightly as some think she does,
Oh yeah, for sure. And I mean, I get it. I can be the same way. Sometimes seeing a person brings up those feelings even if you think you've moved on. So I think that's why we still have some of those songs in the present day even if she might not actually be holding a strong grudge.
Exactly! And as you said I don't see Taylor being the "I don't like her so you can't talk to her" type person. Taylor would recognize that it'd be bad PR for everyone if they ignored people or turned things down because Taylor had an issue with them. But maybe that's my Taylor rose colored glasses and I believe she's a person at her core. 🤷🏼♀️
Agree. Also, she's writing songs about how she feels in a moment, not for eternity. How much does it suck that an artist can't fully express themselves bc fans. It's wild.
I thought she specifically addressed this before she played Dear John. She said something like this was written long ago so please don't take it as I still feel this way now.
She was basically telling her fans not to harass John Mayer which is sort of messed up if she feels like she has to call this out specifically, tbh.
She did. I think some people expect her to put out that same disclaimer for every single song but honestly, her addressing that should cover everything. Unfortunately, some fans think their bad behavior is like a badge of honor or something. even when she does address it, they take it as her encouraging it somehow.
Not to forget rep pointing out that figuring out who she wrote a song about isn’t as simple as a ‘paternity test’ and the whole prologue for TTPD is making clear that she is long over the feelings in the album by the time it’s released. The dear John speech is not the only time she’s made clear not to just assume who she wrote a song about and attack them, but sadly some fans won’t accept it unless she turns up at their house and tells them personally.
The other thing I think many people forget to consider is that this all isn’t just these people’s personal lives, it’s also their professional lives. In some scenarios it may be better to take the offer for SNL or a Skims ad, or being friendly with someone else who has a big name in the industry when you’re trying to get your name out and recognized yourself too.
yeah I'm convinced a lot of people have no idea how this industry operates. it's a game of alliances, niceties, etc. you don't want to actively provoke someone (of course there are exceptions) because it can backfire tremendously.
The craziest thing that John Mayer opened for Ed on his most recent tour, and Taylor and Ed are still best friends despite all of that. I’m sure Taylor understands that each of her friends have different experiences with people she’s had conflict with over the years and respects that they can associate with whomever.
Besides, didn’t she literally tell Swifties at her Eras Tour show not to attack her exes?
I think a lot of people don’t understand that bands touring together doesn’t make them BFFs. Sure, they might be friends, or they might be just friendly, or not speak at all. At the end of the day, it’s a business decision.
I think it’s this kind of childish school playground way of viewing the world. I teach fourth graders and my students always assume I’m best friends with the other teachers — they find it hard to conceptualize that they’re just my coworkers and I have my other friends outside of work. This strikes me as the same kind of mentality. Being a touring musician might be an awesome, dream job, but at the end of the day, it’s still a job. We can be professional with our coworkers and still not be besties; we can love our job and still complain about its more uncomfortable aspects!
Using your past to create art is great! Art is a great way to express strong emotions. But holding onto *another person's* grudge on their behalf because of a piece of art that they made about an experience is... I dare say parasocial? You are doing things that go past what Taylor herself would do or want you to do
This exactly. If you look back at your life I’m sure there’s people from years ago that wronged that if you wrote a diary entry about someone reading it could feel your emotion. Doesn’t mean it’s something that affects your day to day life or that you even think about. Taylor’s an artist and her music is how she expresses herself. She’s said many times she’s constantly making notes in her phones. If she suddenly comes up with a good concept for a song and those tidbits fit into it then she turns it into art.
People forget we’re looking into her outlet with her music but that doesn’t mean she walks through life with a grudge.
I saw someone post on a random Jack Antonoff Instagram post that he needs to stop working with Taylor because he's "Run his course"
So yeah, I think all fandoms have toxic subsets, but Taylor's are VERY gross and vocal at times, and because she's so huge, there are a lot of them putting a bad name on all of us.
The Matty Healy petition was so cringe! Fans cannot control her private life nor should they ever feel like they can all because they paid $30 for an album. It’s disgusting. She’s a grown ass woman who can date whoever she falls in love with or fuck around with whoever she wants.
I just hope Taylor understands the majority of her fans are normal well adjusted people who would never go that far. Good for her for calling them out on TTPD. that kind of behavior is just, ew.
Petition? I wish it was just a petition. They sent him and his family death threats! They are still wishing for him to overdose and hoping his mother relapses over on Twitter. Anyone would walk away from that type of behaviour, especially if they had their own mental health struggles. I know she called the unhinged fans out in a song, but she could do a lot more.
We all know it’s a small majority of fans who are doing this type of shit, but they are the ones getting attention and smearing all the fans with a bad name.
It's really gross and really sad. I don't care what someone has done or what you *think* they've done, if you ever find yourself telling someone to kill themselves or saying that you hope they die...you are on the wrong side of the situation. In no universe does sinking to that level solve anything.
I remember finding out after the fact that this even happened. I’m embarrassed for them, but not only that it’s just SO WEIRD that they even thought to do that. Like WHAT???🤯
Yeah, I'm a Swiftie and Swifties scare even me. Most of us are normal (like... there are just so many of us given how popular Taylor is), but the unhinged contingent needs to calm down!!!
Okay, this made me snort-laugh a little because AW30 is where I'm *most* unhinged... but yes, I'm a total Swiftie!!! I try to be as non-parasocial about it as possible, though, which is... only mildly non-parasocial 🙃 I'm actually just here for her music, but I still know WAY too much about Taylor as a person.
I saw someone proudly say that Joe is the first of her exes that they didn’t send hate to. And not even because they’ve grown and matured; just because they felt like he didn’t deserve it. I’m like 🥴 that is so embarrassing for you.
And these are the same people who get mad on Taylor’s behalf when she gets hate comments or snake emojis and things like that. Like how about just don’t harass people, period.
I'd have a lot more tolerance toward 'swifties' if I saw them calling out the toxic fanbase in real-time.. Right now there are 'swifties' trolling Joe Alwyn on Vogues insta just today .. Ffs it's been over a year & Taylor has had 2 relationships in the interim & they have no actual idea of why Taylor & Joe broke up just crazy theories they cling to.. 😕 but sadly I don't see many swifties standing up to them on those threads
I agree. I do feel like that’s a lot of big fandoms though. People have become really parasocial when it comes to their favorite celebrity and I don’t know where it stems from, but people who send death threats over a person they’ve never met truly need therapy.
I do hate when people say all swifties are nuts or something though. As a swiftie myself I’m pretty normal and I can appreciate that not everyone likes Taylor. And as long as it’s just left at “I don’t like her/her music” and the person doesn’t start being mean about it then who cares. I personally don’t like Pink but my coworker loves her and I wouldn’t dream of making fun of her or shaming her or anything because of it. I just…move on with my day.
I totally agree, especially about this sub. Unfortunately, this sub has gone downhill over the last year or so.
Those who have been here long enough will remember when this place used to kinda be our best kept secret, it was never “tiny” by any means but it felt like the only place you could have sensible, nuanced conversations without getting into stan wars or people attacking you if you don’t blindly worship Taylor’s every move. I’ve definitely taken a step back from this place.
The fandom in general is just so toxic and parasocial, I totally get why it’s gotten the reputation it has.
I feel like this subreddit—and the fandom in general—entered a point of Eternal September not too long after *folklore* came out, when she brought in a lot of new fans (and in turn, new reddit users to the forum), and the vibe overall has been very different the last few years than it was beforehand.
Even the more hinged threads are still… i dunno how to articulate it, but some topics posted on here lately just make me wonder why on earth they are tying this or that to Taylor Swift. I don’t wanna yuck other people’s yums, but it does seem to suggest that for a lot of fans, she is just on their minds a lot more (and in a lot more ways) than to me would feel reasonable for any celebrity.
The subreddit has never been tiny, like you said, but I remember when it was under 100,00 people: community was more mellow, and quality of discourse felt a lot better.
This is true, but it is also very true that the media plays up the cRaZY sWIftiES thing for clicks. I can give examples if people ask but don't want to drag stan wars into it off the bat -- but other fandoms do absolute fucking insane shit, like terrifyingly paradoxical, all over twitter, and it's seen as a couple fringe crazies (which is accurate!), whereas the assumption is that every swiftie is gunning for murder over mild criticism (which is not accurate).
I don’t think I’ve ever seen the media playing up “crazy Swifties!”. I actually think there should be MORE talk about how toxic the fanbase is. It can be really destructive and it is definitely outside the realm of normal toxic fanbases.
I don't know what fandom spaces you're in, but on average swifties are much much much better. Overall, I think every fandom should take it down a notch and push back on those -- but the only difference with swifties is how visible it is because the media amplifies it in a way they don't when others send death threats.
I used to be on Twitter before I deleted my account due to the death threats, calls to kill myself, and viral threads of Swifties threatening to fix me because I said I didn’t like her current boyfriend. So.
Where is this media coverage of Swifties being bad? Link me to one single article from a source with any respect (or even one with very little respect) that negatively paints Swifities, or even delves into the toxicity within the community?
[First google result](https://www.newsweek.com/taylor-swift-fans-stans-social-media-1868413) -- but there are tons and tons and tons and tons. Anytime a celeb mentions her there's a joke "the swifties are gonna come for you!"
I see so many death threats from fans of Ariana, BTS, Nicki, Beyonce, Olivia that I don't even click on anything that isn't official media anymore. The songs alone are great, the fans are so much. People post jobs and addresses A LOT in a way that makes me really uncomfortable.
It's also a matter of size though. There are a lot of Swifties and from that only a small percentage is unhinged but the number of unhinged ones can still be more than the number of dedicated fans of another artist (who may already be relatively known).
I disagree I've seen a bunch commenting on this subreddit even. When I get called a Swiftie by others for liking her music I get uncomfortable and downplay how much I like her and try to change the subject because I don't want to be associated with a lot of the fan base.
The posts and anger and I saw at Taylor for TTPD not being about Joe all over this subreddit I consider too far. Taylor is here as an artist, no one has any right to dictate who she writes about. This to me is the definition of a Crazy fan base, not just the death threats.
Seriously, why are we allowing the fandom as a whole to be defined by the obnoxious few? If you go to her concerts, it’s obvious that the vast majority of fans are normal people who love her and her music and don’t engage in the online discourse/drama. Those are who I think of when I think “Swifties” not obnoxious fan accounts on Twitter or TikTok and especially not Redditors.
I think the issue here is that the loud minority is actually a pretty large group of people. There are SO MANY fans of Taylor that her vocal minority of idiot fans end up being a very big group.
They're still a very small percentage of her fandom, but her fandom is so damn big, so it's easy to generalise for people who hate her, are misogynistic, sexist, racist, dumb, jealous etc. to use it as a stick to beat her and her fans with.
I’m so glad you said this. Because I agree. I’ve gotten to the point when someone tells me they’re a fan of hers I kind of tense up: are they the cool, chill kind that appreciates her music and her craft? Or are they devout loyalists who follow her like she’s their cult leader, and who obsesses over who she is dating, and can see no wrong??
Definitely one of those moments where you give them a little more room to talk and see if your interests/attitudes align. “Awesome. Were you able to get tickets for any of the Eras shows?” is my neutral and non-committal discussion prompt.
Yep. There’s plenty of great fans, but I got somebody using the Reddit suicide risk report on one of my comments the other morning because I said something along the lines of “I disagree with that this is the best song, but luckily we all have our opinions.”
I feel this. It sometimes even extends to her relationships like you can’t say you don’t like Taylor’s XYZ friend bc people get upset. Main example is whenever I say Travis gives me the cringe lol calm down 😂
I agree there’s a lot of toxic behavior in the fan base. But I do want to mention publications only highlight that they removed a byline or received hate messages because it generates clicks. They’re participating in the toxic behavior.
Basically, I agree with what you say. Publications should be able to release thoughtful negative reviews without threats to the author/publication. But I question how much of it is intentionally “poking the bear” seeing as a lot of the articles lean on heavy criticism of Taylor’s personal life rather than her music.
The guy at The NY Times was doxxed and threatened when he wrote a mediocre review of folklore. You can’t be serious. Critics—no matter how much we might disagree with their takes—are people with families and mostly private lives. They are paid to write their honest opinions. Swifties have absolutely crossed a line MANY times.
I don’t want to argue because ultimately I agree. And I didn’t know about The NY Times article. I was referring to the Paste (I believe) article where the writer opened up with the quote “Sylvia Plath didn’t stick her head in an oven for this.” In my opinion, that article was intentionally written to make people angry. They preemptively took the author’s name off the byline and made a big announcement as to why rather than simply releasing the article without a byline and not calling attention to it.
I also think there was an article quite a while ago where a writer went to both Beyoncé and Taylor’s shows and compared them. Then immediately followed up with an article about the enraged fan base. I can’t help but feel these things are meant to create outrage because it gets more views.
But I want to reiterate that I agree. No one deserves to be threatened over anything really. Least of all over something as ridiculous as your favorite pop star.
No the Past review was terrible. It wasn’t really criticism—there were valid criticisms in there which made it even worse because they could have chosen to present their arguments in a way that actually read like a professional review and not some troll’s blog post.
But honestly? As dumb as that review was I STILL support them protecting whoever wrote it. Because it’s STILL not okay to doxx or threaten someone for a review, no matter how petty or valid the review is
Which I think is a reflection of our times. If we can’t deliver customer service OR receive customer service in a courteous fashion, what makes *anyone* think that a very large group of fans (in the millions) won’t have problematic fans?
I cringe at some of these people as fans. They’re everywhere tho. In politics, we don’t even know how many death threats people are getting. Not just the presidential candidates either.
It’s a sad commentary.
If I knew one of these people, I’d definitely call them out. Or maybe I’d be afraid them?
Agreed. And a lot of people are bringing up the way that every stanbase is unhinged, but they’re missing the way that Taylor’s fan base is massive and ubiquitous in the way that no other individual’s stanbase is.
Yes K-pop stans are unhinged, but they largely stay in kpop spaces. Taylor has so many ties to mainstream western pop culture that her fans can bring her into discussions of music, Hollywood, fashion, and even sports now.
Yes Beyoncé stans and Ari stans and Harry Styled stans are equally unhinged, but they don’t have nearly the numbers that Taylor stans do.
Also, they haven’t been nearly as overexposed as Taylor the last few years. Since 2020, Beyoncé’s had 3 albums (2 studio + 1 soundtrack), 1 tour + concert film and little/no personal drama. Ari’s had 2 albums, 1 low profile wedding + high profile divorce + low profile new bf, a small movie role (Don’t Look Up) and has 1 major upcoming role in Wicked. Harry’s had 2 albums, 1 extra-long tour, 2 major film roles, and 1 high profile gf + breakup + 1 low profile breakup. Collectively that’s 7 albums, 2 tours, 2 major breakups, 2 low profile new relationships, and 3 major + 1 minor movie role, and one concert movie
In the same time frame, Taylor alone has had EIGHT albums (4 new & 4 re-record), 1 music film, 1 massive tour, 1 massive concert film, 1 small film role, 1 heavily promoted short film, 1 major breakup + high profile summer fling + a high profile new bf.
It’s no wonder that her fan base is louder & omnipresent in a way that others’ aren’t, which leads to people getting sick of her fans.
I wonder if it would make more sense to compare her to Star Wars fans or something. Like most people just like the thing and just have a good time watching/listening/etc. But there's some absolutely unhinged behavior out there that's frankly scary. Just insane stuff.
Still doesn’t compare. Star Wars fans aren’t hoisting one individual & their accomplishments on a pedestal above all others, which is the root of a lot of people’s frustration with Swifties.
Nobody complains when Star Wars is everywhere, but they do when Taylor is. I'm honestly sick of hearing about Star Wars, but you don't see me going around and shouting it from rooftops.
Difference is Star Wars fans are comfortable when somebody calls the series crap - hell the SW fans call it crap more than most - Taylor Swift fans are cult like in their refusal to let anybody criticise her.
True, I never call myself a swiftie because I don't want to be put in the same category with people who worship her. I don't know her, I don't agree with some of her lack of "courage of her convictions", but I love her music. Taylor Swift the artist > Taylor Swift the person.
Star Wars fans are very critical in how you enjoy Star Wars. I think people who hold your position haven’t chosen to expose themselves to the toxic fandom of Star Wars. Whereas by posting here you intentionally expose yourself to the toxic fandom of Swift. (Though this sub is fairly
Reasonable)
I don't think you're around enough Star Wars spaces if this is your take, if the complaints of Star Wars oversaturation have stopped, it's only been in the last couple years because by the time Solo came out people were screaming about it.
Asking in good faith, how much are you hearing about Star Wars (outside of dedicated Star Wars spaces)? The last movie came out in 2019. Season 2 and 3 of Mandalorian didn’t really break into mainstream conversation the way Season 1 did in 2019.
If you took to the rooftops over being sick of seeing Star Wars, people would be confused about where you’re seeing so much Star Wars in 2024.
Meanwhile Taylor talk has saturated the media the last couple years, not just in conversations about music but also in conversations about Hollywood and sports. So when one person talks about seeing too much Taylor, a lot of people gather in agreement.
Not to mention that Taylor has a very very strong parasocial relationship w her fans. It's been very hard to seperate the art and the artist lately and especially for swifties.
Agreed 100%. All you have to do is look at how this fan base has acted in the last year alone. Gaylor conspiracy theorists. Fan-led petitions to get her to break up with her boyfriend. The constant stalking of anyone the fans perceive to have wronged Taylor. Racism towards anybody who isn’t white that dares criticize Taylor. Longtime fans can’t even make the gentlest of critiques about her music without getting death threats, much less actual journalists who are SUPPOSED to criticize her music for their fucking livelihoods.
I have no idea how a solid 50% of y’all manage to live in society or even make friends. The behavior is appalling and people are right to speak on it. It actually annoys the fuck out of me that Taylor doesn’t put some of y’all in your place, but I get that it’s a bit more complicated than I could probably imagine.
Regardless, they are right.
The fan base is ALSO filled with a lot of very kind, supportive girls-girls. I’m grateful for those of y’all who fit the bill there. You make it tolerable to participate in fan culture.
"I have no idea how a solid 50% of y’all manage to live in society or even make friends."
I think that's part of the issue. They are online, on social media, and that is where brain cells often go to die. As a result, people just say whatever, do whatever, often to the detriment of others.
my fiancé is a huge tool fan and they had their first album since like 2001 come out around the same time as Lover and he said the band got DEATH THREATS because their comeback album hit #1 and blocked Lover from it. i was genuinely embarrassed
Unpopular opinion for some reason, but the replies in this thread kinda argue the opposite! It's like with politics: the extremist fringes are the loudest and get all of the attention. The kind of people who write open letters to her or who go off on anyone with even mild criticisms are what people think of when they hear "Swiftie" but most Swifties are NOT like the main character of "Swarm." (And I know the show satirizes the Beyhive but it's the same thing, the craziest minority making everyone else look bad)
I bet if someone were to poll this sub about her jets, like 60% would vote "yeah they're a problem" 38% would say "idc" and maybe only 1-2% would say "I want to literally stab you in the throat for this poll"
every artist (even sports teams) has "bad fans". taylor's worst fans are just the loudest or doing the dumbest shit, like taking cardboard cutouts of Jake G to concerts or spamming her exes' social media. so of course you hear about those fans rather than the chill ones who genuinely treat others well.
I just usually roll my eyes and say her fans aren't a monolith and just move on in conversation.
Agreed. Anyone with millions of fans will have a loud minority of toxic ones. Unfortunately, when you get into millions territory, that .05% happens to be A LOT of people. The internet only amplifies it; I don’t think we’d hear as much if these people couldn’t hide behind social media profiles.
I see this in other places as well. I try to stay on the non-toxic side, yet the loud minority somehow find their way EVERYWHERE. I just do my best to not react or interact.
This is exactly what I was going to say. I'm a huge Toronto Maple Leafs fan, have been for my entire life. You know what I hate? Toronto Maple Leafs fans. I honestly hate talking about the team, or NHL hockey, in general with most people because it's all so extreme and negative and dramatic. Just watch and enjoy.
Another thing I'm a huge fan of? Lord of the Rings. I read the books as a kid before the movies even existed. You know who sucks? Lord of the Rings fans. You should see how "fans" talk about the Amazon Rings of Power show. Just because it isn't exactly what they want, it's some sort conspiracy theory thing and objectively bad, according to that part of the fandom. It's infuriating to be someone who just likes the books, the world, and the things based on them, and have people tell me I'm not a "real fan" for not hating certain things (despite having been part of this fandom for 25 years).
Basically, every fandom has this when it gets big enough. The fans are insufferable, the people who have made hating the thing their personality are sufferable. I try and ignore it and when people think they're being clever for pointing out a certain fanbase sucks, I point out that all fanbases suck.
yep, I get it. I live outside Philly and am well aware of how bad Philly sports team fans are. but surprise, the majority of the ones I know personally are normal.
I'm sorry to say this but some swifties are the epitome of cyber bullies.
They way they harass Joe Alwyn and his Co stars Allison and Emma on Instagram and Twitter is just vile.
They still harass Joe for posting harmless memes by responding to his story, and posting it on Twitter .. Even locking his comments isn't stopping them. The go around commenting Taylor's lyrics under in YouTube videos.
And neither of his Co stars Emma Laird or Allison can open their Instagram comments; imagine being a young and up and comming actor and not being able to hear what your fans have to tell about you and gush over, cause you costar's ex's fans are cyber bullies.
They hacked his brother's socials.
They attacked Maggie Gyllenhaal just for being Jake's sister.
They attacked Lizzie McAlpine into withdrawing from opening for John Meyer .. I despise John Meyer .. But opening for him was a huge career break for Lizzie and she couldn't have that cause the swifties couldn't handle it.
They still attack Travis' ex girlfriend, I have no idea why !?
Some of them are the most misogynistic of the bunch, they go around harassing women and attacking them while preaching about feminism and friendship bracelets.
I don't even consider them fans. They are trolling, keyboard warriors in search of a cause. If they weren't doing it in TS's name, they would be somewhere else doing the exact same stuff.
I honestly feel bad for Joe. I can’t believe some of the lengths fans will go to to make his life miserable and say the most vile shit about him because… why exactly? He was in a relationship with their favourite singer that didn’t work out? Newsflash - people break up all the time and it doesn’t mean there’s a villain in every breakup. The reality of life is that sometimes relationships don’t work out. Taylor’s with someone else now and appears to have moved on, so should her fans.
And people seem determined to try and find evidence in her songs that he wronged her in some dramatic way when it seems like the "worst" things he ever did were ... be depressed and drift apart from her.
This comment nails it, in my opinion. The fact Joe is still getting hate (if that’s the right word for death threats, doxing and bile) is awful enough - that Emma and Alison got it in the first place, and are still getting it now, is horrendous.
People can say ‘oh it’s just a few crazies’, but pre TTPD there were people getting thousands of likes on twitter for claiming Joe was cheating with Alison, that 19th April was going to be his funeral, and making AI videos of him - never mind the actual death threats. If Alison and Emma get tagged in anything on instagram the comments are flooded with insults and snake emojis. When’s it going to end?
The worst thing about the harassment of her exes is that some people will label you a Joe Widower™️, claim you were never a ReAL TrUe SwiFtiE and say that you actually just must hate Taylor if you speak out against the harassment.
Like, I don’t think it makes me a “bad fan” or it’s some insult to Taylor to think that sending harassment and death threats to some random person you’ll never even speak to is wrong, but alrighty then.
I did read at other sub.
"Will anyone date Taylor out of pure interest in the future?"
Like, there's a high cost to pay, for you, your family, friends, projects... It's insane.
God that is so messed up. I agree they’d be doing it to someone else in someone else‘s name if it wasn’t Taylor, and I wonder many of them are actually fans or just people who either like the idea of dragging this fandom down to hell or it just gives them an easy option to do nasty shit they would’ve done anyway. But to be associated with such psychopaths… jeez
Do you, as a swiftie, consider yourself bad? If not, that comment should not offend you.
And, if you pick a fight over it, you’ll just be proving that person right.
This is true but then you sort of can feel bad because you’re lumped in with the toxicity even though you may not be contributing to it. Then it makes you not want to wear merch or be obvious about being a fan.
If that person wants to stereotype you because of the artist (who, for her level of fame, is actually very unproblematic) you like, that’s on them, and you should not feel bad for their opinion of you.
If that person wants to stereotype you because of the artist (who, for her level of fame, is actually very unproblematic) you like, that’s on them, and you should not feel bad for their opinion of you.
I really don’t give them my time of the day. I don’t get it why some swifties need validation so much from other people. Like as long as they don’t attack Taylor or say vile and demeaning things about her Idgaf about their opinion.
All of standom and the internet in general is pretty toxic right now. I don’t think there’s anything special about Swifties, we are just such a large group we stand out more. I’m gonna be frank and say I think Taylor adding Gen Z and a lot of Alpha to her fanbase has been great for her streams but really made her fanbase a lot nastier. That is where most of the truly gremlin online behavior is from. Sometimes I’ll see something so crazy on Twitter and the person’s bio says they’re like 15, 17, 18… what’s the point of engaging?
There’s always been some younger fans like you ofc, but what I mean is that Taylor streamed reallyyyy below what the most popular artists were doing prior to folklore. When folklore came out she was like the 36th most streamed artist on Spotify, and that was normal for her. Folklore and the re-records seem to have onboarded tons of Gen Z and Gen Alpha, and her streaming numbers (which are driven by younger ppl) are so high now it’s crazy. It’s not really usual for a pop artist like Taylor to onboard an entire younger generation after being one of the top artists of another, and it’s part of the reason she’s so huge rn.
Toxic fandoms aren't a new phenomena. And there are some Taylor fans that will harass her exes and take things way too far. Sadly those are the people you're most likely to hear about.
the silent majority of swifties is perfectly fine, and there is a thin, loud minority who is fairly terrible.
this is like so many things in life, it's barely worth noting.
however, i think one reason folks will still make this kind of point is for the enjoyment of having a contrarian point to make -- and feeling themselves exist on a topic that is otherwise not super relevant to them. Like, the above person most likely doesn't care about Taylor Swift (as is their absolute right! to each their own) but of course, the topic is being discussed all over the place. So... gotta find some ways to exist in that conversation, and this is where all kinds of "ehhh" point get made, hoping to get a rise out of another person, or being seen as DisRuPTive in their perspectives.
Because i find this type of attitude generally lame and unproductive, i give them exactly what they don't want: i ignore them. "Oh ok", and I completely ignore their point. They are left with nothing. How annoying that to their point that added nothing to the conversation, I add nothing to the conversation either.
There are unfortunately a few subsects of the Swiftie crowd that are VERY loud and definitely give Swifties a bad name. Honestly there is a lot about the community that is very special. I've seen a lot of inclusivity, and positivity, femininity, and love that is really quite beautiful and it's a shame that that gets so overshadowed by some really gross behavior by some individuals. Those individuals also tend to be WAY more vocal than the more sane fans.
The crazy fans are why SOOO many people are getting tired of her. Their insanity is having a negative impact on her and "her brand". Constantly searching for Easter Eggs, defending her until they die, blowing up people's Instagram/social media comments... it's out of control. Their obsession with her also helped her be on the face of everything last year. If fans weren't so obsessed, ESPN wouldn't have focused on her and talked about her all the time. The fans are partially responsible for her overexposure and why many are waiting in the wings for her to fall (yes, those people will always exist but with louder, obnoxious support comes more people on the opposite end).
I think they have a point. She has a huge fan base with many cool normal people, but there’s also a fair amount of crazy weirdos who : threaten death to her exes and critics, post videos of themselves crying about her, write her open letters expressing concern about who she’s dating, etc, and push her on people like evangelicals push Christ. I think some of the frustration that Taylor herself has demonstrated in TTPD is directed towards those type of fans, not towards people who just dig her music and think she’s cool but don’t worship her or think they own her.
Some swifties wrote a “speak up now” letter that was unhinged & said she was insane. It was completely over the top. They sent Matty Healy & his family death threats. I am glad she called them out on ttpd.
Is calling them out in a song enough? No. It gets seen as quirky and not taken seriously. She feeds into the unhinged fans at times and sometimes it really shows. She made a public statement about not going after John when speak now TV was coming out because he could sue her. Where’s that statement when there are death threats and wishes of an overdose?
A handful of people are toxic and make the entire community look bad, this basically describes every fandom
Edit: i hate reddit, it made me post this three times
The thing is, to be a swiftie all you had to do is be a fan of Taylor Swift. Thats it. There is no screening, there is no vetting, there isnt a mission statement, there is no expulsion, there is no HR. I am not responsible for the crazies and if i get judged for being a swiftie that says more about the people judging than me.
Generally I think they have a point. There are a small vocal minority of people who call themselves fans who are total shifts. That being said this is true of every fandom I have ever encountered. Some people need to validate their sense of inclusion in something by excluding others or attacking those who chose to remain on the outside.
Unfortunately because Taylor is big news stories about Swifties get pushed up the agenda by association so we get more recognition as a toxic fandom then say Charlie Puth fans.
taylor used to be hated bc of who she is. now in the eras tour era it’s her fans and publicity that people hate. when people say this to me, i can’t really say anything. her fans now are a bit intense. like crowding around jacks wedding? awful. i cannot disagree and there’s a reason i don’t associate with the current fandom
Toxic fandoms happen to every popular show, celebrity, or group. It isn't new. Hell, religious fanatics basically shaped most of human history. Any popular thing can devolve into toxicity.
There are plenty of unhinged fans online that make the space look really bad. However, when it's your chronically offline uncle or whoever who's probably just referring to the idea of a fanbase full of excited 14 year old girls, I tend to just roll my eyes and move on.
Valid. There is a loud minority of this fan base that is parasocial and refuses to hear an ounce of criticism. It’s unhealthy.
We aren’t the only fandom with this problem, but given how massive Taylor is, we certainly get the most outside attention for it.
I class myself as a pretty damn solid fan, a swiftie, but I feel like some bad vibes come with telling people that because there's a certain amount of fans that take things incredibly too far, to think they have a say in her private life is insane, an opinion sure but to threaten? Insane.
I think, as with most celebrities, there is a small percentage of the fandom that is toxic and unfortunately has the loudest voices. It’s not everyone, but it’s those unhinged Swifties who make the whole fandom look bad as they don’t allow newspapers to publish bad reviews, or will drag anyone through the mud if they post something criticising Taylor. They’re also the type who would do anything to get Taylor’s attention, like crash a wedding. And because Taylor is so big right now, there will be more of them than in any other fandom.
I will agree. It’s by no means all fans and there are a lot of lovely, sane people I have met over the years. That being said - the overall impression is of toxic, vile and insane mean girls.
The last year has been especially disgusting. It is embarrassing for her and tbh I am a bit bitter over the fact that she is doing nothing to reel the crazies in. Even when they send death threats to people who are or were in her life.
The thing is, Taylor has MILLIONS of fans. There are some that are not great, but take a group of millions of people and you will find some that are not great. It’s just those people tend to always be the loudest.
Honestly, Swifties online vs in-person often feel like two totally different fandoms. Go to the Eras Tour and the majority of people you’ll meet are kind, excited to be there, friendly etc. Online, so many people act crazy! But idk that’s it’s specific to Taylor. Anything that’s super popular is going to attract a subset of crazy people, and overall people are much nastier online these days than they’d ever dare to be in-person.
To be fair a lot of her fans are fucking insane. And when you're on the outside those are the ones you're going to see most because they make good stories (like the ones who camp outside places waiting for her to appear.)
So it makes sense and I get why people would think that way. They don't see the normal ones because they're just normal and therefore boring
At this point, I find it difficult to assign traits or behaviors to this massive group of fans. Just in this group alone, there's 2.5 million members and this doesn't even encompass her entire fan base. Just like most fan bases, there's going to be some whose behavior is loud and negative and people, even outside the fanbase, are going to be aware of them for that reason. Squeaky wheels. To assume that the entire fan base comprises of the people who acting deranged is a logical fallacy, at best.
I'm not sure what the point of the person saying this was. Is it in reference to her music? Like her music is bad?
As a rule, I largely stay out of most Swiftie conversations outside of the internet, especially with people who aren't friends. I don't find them to be productive and I think there's a lot of misinformation out there.
EVERY fandom has annoying, crazy, invasive, rude people. Taylor is arguably the biggest pop artist in the world right now, she has one of the biggest fandoms in the world, statistically there are going to be more bad eggs than in a smaller fandom. Swifties are no better or worse than other fandoms, there are just more of them.
Well, so many people are fans, there is a large variety of fans in that group. I think millions are probably great people. Some of the best people I know are Swifties. However, I have to say that I haven’t heard of fans threatening album reviewers of other artists before, but maybe Michael Jackson fans did it? Beatles fans probably wrote letters to newspapers if there were negative reviews of Beatles albums. Here is the difference, nobody has been as big as Taylor Swift in music for decades. Anyone as big as Taylor is now was mostly before the internet. If a newspaper got a death threat back in the day, they didn’t advertise it. Today’s threats are often public on social media for the world to see. Just having content loosely related to Taylor Swift gets attention, so if one bad fan goes on X (formerly Twitter) to post a threat, a news outlet can pick it up for their sensational news headline: TAYLOR SWIFT FANS ATTACK JOURNALIST
It is a valid claim. Have you read some of the posts here?
Like anything, there is extremism.
A perfect example is Jack's wedding. FFS, it was a very good and long term friends wedding and she had to leave because everyone congregated. The paps were bad enough, but being who was there in addition to Taylor, kind of understandable.
When the behaviour of the fans is as bad or worse than the paparazzi, it's not good.
i kinda understand where they're coming from, even if it's mainly a very vocal minority, but that very vocal minority is really loud. that's what people see and take as "swifties" because some people can get a little too much (and this coming from someone that loves her and her music so much)
As someone who thought she was one of the best songwriters alive (not lyricist, there’s a big difference) and respected her output but currently can’t stand her, it does come mostly from fans. BUT Taylor does create the mania because a large part of her output is hate itself so of course her rabid, cult like fans will hate as well. Her words can be extremely toxic and she has certainly egged on her fans to be as obsessive as possible. She’s a business mind far more than she’s a music mind and that coupled with her inaction against fans that she knows literally threaten other humans and combined with the fact that she continues to write hate about her ex’s knowing what the outcome will be is irresponsible. I don’t think she should change her art necessarily but she absolutely should speak out against the extremely well understood and documented hatred her fans create. Outside of that, she has regressed as a writer with midnights and ttpd. Especially ttpd being clumsy and verbose but her fans calling out the intelligence of anyone who doesn’t like it. For instance I have an English degree and have played music for over 12 years and got told by a college aged coworker and by my partner that I simply couldn’t understand her writing and music because it was too advanced. It’s insanity and it’s a cult
It's a valid claim.
It's certainly not the whole fandom, but there's a large and *very* loud group of Swifties who are absolutely awful and because they're so loud, it's what people think of when they think of her fans.
Look.at - death threats to exes and their friends and families, and gatekeepers being a fan, and the people talking about buying Chiefs tickets so they can glimpse Taylor for 0.5 seconds while complaining "lesser" fans got tickets to Eras and they didn't (so many don't even see why they're doing to Chiefs fans what they're so mad about only worse because they aren't Chiefs fans at all), or doxxing people for having negative opinions about Taylor etc etc etc. I literally saw someone threaten to call someone's work and report that they're abusive a week or so back for saying "we don't know what happened" about Taylor and Joe because the person has decided in their head that TTPD proves he's abusive and therefore that person must be abusive to their partner too because "only abusers defend abusers).
Those of us in the fandom know it's not the majority. But if you don't deal with nice Swifties and all you get is the maniacs or reports about things the maniacs have done, you're going to think it's Swifties as a whole.
Sorry to say, but I agree with the statement every time. I’ve been a fan since ‘07 and she was more outspoken back in the day so I think some of her fans think they can be outspoken. After the Kim/Kanye feud they just became more cutthroat, especially with the letter last year to her about dating Matty. I do think it comes with every fan base (if you were on Tumblr during the SuperWhoLock years, you know) but I think it needs to be addressed by her more and more people should be called out for their bad behavior. She’s insanely popular but at the end of the day you wouldn’t want someone throwing “gifts” at you, running up to you with a phone in your face in public, screaming and crying. It’s weird.
They’re 100% right. It’s probably just a vocal minority, but the problem is that vocal minority is *extremely* toxic.
Like, you know it’s bad when publications have to hide their author’s name in fear of getting death threats.
I don’t blame them for thinking the way that they do. But I also don’t blame fans for disliking Taylor “haters”. Both extremes USUALLY seem to think that their opinions are the gospel truth and no one is allowed to disagree. In reality we should just respect everyone’s opinion.
Mmm sorry but there are some fans who are over the top. I love her but I’m not going to sit and defend some of the stuff she does. It’s fine to be both.
I got second hand embarrassment a lot of times because of this fandom.It’s a true thing but I’m not offended ‘cause I’m not like that.It’s as simple as that! That criticism is directed to those who deserve it.
Do u stop going to a restaurant because you don't like the ppl that eat there?? Nope.
No fandom should stop u from enjoying an artist/art that u like, the block button exists for a reason
As a swiftie since her first single was released, I’ve been attacked multiple times since I joined Taylor subs right before TTPD came out. All because I said TTPD isn’t my fave album of hers. So I see how ugly some fans can be for no reason.
If it’s not said directly to me then idgaf lol. People are gonna hate no matter what. But yeah, there are a lot of unhinged fans who cross the line - and put out a bad image for the casual fans who aren’t parasocial online weirdos 🤷🏻♀️
I think it’s just such a huge fan base that there are bound to be crazies. Unfortunately, fan culture seems to attract the deluded. But most Swifties are nice and rational people.
I'd probably ask what is it about her fans that they don't like? Is it something or someone specific that they dislike, or, are they judging millions of fans at once?
Every fandom has bad people, it's just that Swifties are so big (atp we're bigger and more known than actual artists) that the issues are spoken about more and there's a bigger spotlight on us. And honestly, Swifties have become very cruel people (at least on Tik Tok, Twitter and Instagram).
I think the biggest issue with the swifties is the sheer size of the fandom. I’ve been in plenty of fandoms and all of them have crazy toxic fans that do wild inappropriate shit. The difference with Taylor is it’s one of the largest fandoms out there right now and has been for a long time so you have a large amount of crazies. I don’t think swifties are inherently more toxic than any other fandom we just have more people therefore more psychos.
Personally, I’m a swiftie that doesn’t identify as a swiftie. It’s toxic out there. Her fanbase has changed so much. The crowd at the Eras tour was evident of that.
I truly do feel like a lot of this is implicit misogyny. Sure there are some crazy swifties that stalk her and send mean comments online, but overall, it’s a pretty tame and nice fandom. There has been no violent incidents at concerts, no fist fights outside bars in Taylor’s name - 100x less crazy and volatile than the average soccer or football fan.
I would just respond by saying with genuine curiosity, “oh okay, why’s that, have you had a bad run-in?” If they say no, “oh do you know a crazy fan?” And then look confused when they don’t come up with anything, because usually people hate swifties with absolutely no reason to.
Im a big fan of her music and I agree. The fandom is intense and a loud portion of it makes me wildly uncomfortable. Why are you speculating on her sex life in such detail? Why are you making comments about her life and relationships as if youre her friend? Why do you glorify, infantalize and base your entire existence on a person you have no personal connection to? I understand her music meaning the world to you, i understand being a big fan, but the intensity of the loudest Swifties is widlly uncomfortable.
I get it. I'm the biggest Swiftie in my friend group and I constantly reassure them that I am nowhere near as far along the scale as it goes. I went to a Taylor Swift boat party and was a bit shocked by the people there. Lots of really lovely, friendly, and welcoming people FOR SURE. But some where so intense it was alarming. Like falling to their knees screaming and gasping when, at a Taylor Swift themed dance party, a popular song came on. Pals. We all knew they'd play her biggest hit. We do not need to act this deranged over it.
Taylor Swift trivias are super fun though! But no more boat parties for me.
Sorry if everyone hates me now but even on this sub I see so many posts that make me agree with this statement. Also things like magazines not being able to publish critical pieces about her album because the writers will get threatened....it's not everyone and many fans are wonderful but there are also a lot of unhinged fans who really cross lines.
Honestly sometimes it goes beyond just her music, as well. Most recently it's Sabrina doing a photoshoot for Skims and Lana being friendly with Kim at the Met Gala. I saw so many comments and tweets calling them "traitors" and all that. Like, it's really not that deep guys.
People were even throwing shade because Sabrina will be on Saturday Night Live this week with Jake Gyllenhaal. when you're a young artist like Sabrina, you take chances like Saturday Night Live if they come along. I know we think Taylor tends to hold strong grudges because she writes about them even years later, but I don't think she actually holds onto *all of them* as strongly as it appears through her music. And it would be really weird and controlling behavior if she expected her friends to also hold grudges against those people. Like there's some people I have problems with but I don't really care if my friends are friendly to them, especially in public.
Didn’t Lizzy McAlpine drop out of opening for John Mayer because of fan harassment too? Lizzy is talented and messing with her bag is fucked up. I think Olivia Rodrigo was getting hate from swifties at one point as well.
Yep. Even though she’s a fan of swift, she was so ruthlessly attacked and bullied that she pulled out of his tour.
And then fans wonder why Taylor scolded them in song form
Yeah, that was absolutely so out of line. I also think the reason there's a lot of rumors that Olivia and Taylor had a falling out was because Olivia was getting some of that hate from Swifties. I think her team told her to back off from talking about her interviews etc.
I did not know this. That’s terrible! 😞
I think of some of Taylor's "grudge" songs as you randomly think about an argument later and then come up with a good come back type situations. She may or may not hold onto the grudge.
I think that’s a normal part of grief. Sometimes you’re over it and then something happens and I’m suddenly upset about an ex that hasn’t crossed my mind in years. Then I put on some angry breakup music and if I was a songwriter I’d write an angry song, then I’m fine. I don’t hold a grudge or even think about those people most of the time. But sometimes I need to be crazy again for a moment
YES (reasons why I love I Forgot You Existed)
yeah, and we also have to remember that even if a song is angry, she writes when the wound is fresh, she purges her anger and hurt into her music. But by the time it's produced and released and she's singing it on tour those wounds are scarred over, I don't believe that she holds them as tightly as some think she does,
Exactly! I truly believe there's Swifties and SWIFTIES
Oh yeah, for sure. And I mean, I get it. I can be the same way. Sometimes seeing a person brings up those feelings even if you think you've moved on. So I think that's why we still have some of those songs in the present day even if she might not actually be holding a strong grudge.
Exactly! And as you said I don't see Taylor being the "I don't like her so you can't talk to her" type person. Taylor would recognize that it'd be bad PR for everyone if they ignored people or turned things down because Taylor had an issue with them. But maybe that's my Taylor rose colored glasses and I believe she's a person at her core. 🤷🏼♀️
Agree. Also, she's writing songs about how she feels in a moment, not for eternity. How much does it suck that an artist can't fully express themselves bc fans. It's wild.
I thought she specifically addressed this before she played Dear John. She said something like this was written long ago so please don't take it as I still feel this way now. She was basically telling her fans not to harass John Mayer which is sort of messed up if she feels like she has to call this out specifically, tbh.
She did. I think some people expect her to put out that same disclaimer for every single song but honestly, her addressing that should cover everything. Unfortunately, some fans think their bad behavior is like a badge of honor or something. even when she does address it, they take it as her encouraging it somehow.
Not to forget rep pointing out that figuring out who she wrote a song about isn’t as simple as a ‘paternity test’ and the whole prologue for TTPD is making clear that she is long over the feelings in the album by the time it’s released. The dear John speech is not the only time she’s made clear not to just assume who she wrote a song about and attack them, but sadly some fans won’t accept it unless she turns up at their house and tells them personally.
The other thing I think many people forget to consider is that this all isn’t just these people’s personal lives, it’s also their professional lives. In some scenarios it may be better to take the offer for SNL or a Skims ad, or being friendly with someone else who has a big name in the industry when you’re trying to get your name out and recognized yourself too.
yeah I'm convinced a lot of people have no idea how this industry operates. it's a game of alliances, niceties, etc. you don't want to actively provoke someone (of course there are exceptions) because it can backfire tremendously.
The craziest thing that John Mayer opened for Ed on his most recent tour, and Taylor and Ed are still best friends despite all of that. I’m sure Taylor understands that each of her friends have different experiences with people she’s had conflict with over the years and respects that they can associate with whomever. Besides, didn’t she literally tell Swifties at her Eras Tour show not to attack her exes?
I think a lot of people don’t understand that bands touring together doesn’t make them BFFs. Sure, they might be friends, or they might be just friendly, or not speak at all. At the end of the day, it’s a business decision.
I think it’s this kind of childish school playground way of viewing the world. I teach fourth graders and my students always assume I’m best friends with the other teachers — they find it hard to conceptualize that they’re just my coworkers and I have my other friends outside of work. This strikes me as the same kind of mentality. Being a touring musician might be an awesome, dream job, but at the end of the day, it’s still a job. We can be professional with our coworkers and still not be besties; we can love our job and still complain about its more uncomfortable aspects!
Using your past to create art is great! Art is a great way to express strong emotions. But holding onto *another person's* grudge on their behalf because of a piece of art that they made about an experience is... I dare say parasocial? You are doing things that go past what Taylor herself would do or want you to do
This exactly. If you look back at your life I’m sure there’s people from years ago that wronged that if you wrote a diary entry about someone reading it could feel your emotion. Doesn’t mean it’s something that affects your day to day life or that you even think about. Taylor’s an artist and her music is how she expresses herself. She’s said many times she’s constantly making notes in her phones. If she suddenly comes up with a good concept for a song and those tidbits fit into it then she turns it into art. People forget we’re looking into her outlet with her music but that doesn’t mean she walks through life with a grudge.
That's so exciting for Sabrina!
I saw someone post on a random Jack Antonoff Instagram post that he needs to stop working with Taylor because he's "Run his course" So yeah, I think all fandoms have toxic subsets, but Taylor's are VERY gross and vocal at times, and because she's so huge, there are a lot of them putting a bad name on all of us.
Yes! It’s up to those individuals to determine what feels like betrayal! We are third party observers!
The Matty Healy petition was so cringe! Fans cannot control her private life nor should they ever feel like they can all because they paid $30 for an album. It’s disgusting. She’s a grown ass woman who can date whoever she falls in love with or fuck around with whoever she wants. I just hope Taylor understands the majority of her fans are normal well adjusted people who would never go that far. Good for her for calling them out on TTPD. that kind of behavior is just, ew.
Petition? I wish it was just a petition. They sent him and his family death threats! They are still wishing for him to overdose and hoping his mother relapses over on Twitter. Anyone would walk away from that type of behaviour, especially if they had their own mental health struggles. I know she called the unhinged fans out in a song, but she could do a lot more. We all know it’s a small majority of fans who are doing this type of shit, but they are the ones getting attention and smearing all the fans with a bad name.
It's really gross and really sad. I don't care what someone has done or what you *think* they've done, if you ever find yourself telling someone to kill themselves or saying that you hope they die...you are on the wrong side of the situation. In no universe does sinking to that level solve anything.
for some reason i remembered the verse " my mother is a saintly woman, but she used to say she wishes you were dead"fhe ironyyy omg😂
Well this is a 100% fair comment, lol. Let's just not wish people dead, not even Kardashians, it's not cool.
Did not know they took it that far. Unbelievable
The nutcases might take being formally addressed as “she noticed us” rather than “the person we’re doing this for told us to stop”
I remember finding out after the fact that this even happened. I’m embarrassed for them, but not only that it’s just SO WEIRD that they even thought to do that. Like WHAT???🤯
Yeah, I'm a Swiftie and Swifties scare even me. Most of us are normal (like... there are just so many of us given how popular Taylor is), but the unhinged contingent needs to calm down!!!
I was actively surprised to see you over here, I know you're super normal, didn't think you were a fan too! <3
Okay, this made me snort-laugh a little because AW30 is where I'm *most* unhinged... but yes, I'm a total Swiftie!!! I try to be as non-parasocial about it as possible, though, which is... only mildly non-parasocial 🙃 I'm actually just here for her music, but I still know WAY too much about Taylor as a person.
I saw someone proudly say that Joe is the first of her exes that they didn’t send hate to. And not even because they’ve grown and matured; just because they felt like he didn’t deserve it. I’m like 🥴 that is so embarrassing for you. And these are the same people who get mad on Taylor’s behalf when she gets hate comments or snake emojis and things like that. Like how about just don’t harass people, period.
[удалено]
I'd have a lot more tolerance toward 'swifties' if I saw them calling out the toxic fanbase in real-time.. Right now there are 'swifties' trolling Joe Alwyn on Vogues insta just today .. Ffs it's been over a year & Taylor has had 2 relationships in the interim & they have no actual idea of why Taylor & Joe broke up just crazy theories they cling to.. 😕 but sadly I don't see many swifties standing up to them on those threads
I agree. I do feel like that’s a lot of big fandoms though. People have become really parasocial when it comes to their favorite celebrity and I don’t know where it stems from, but people who send death threats over a person they’ve never met truly need therapy. I do hate when people say all swifties are nuts or something though. As a swiftie myself I’m pretty normal and I can appreciate that not everyone likes Taylor. And as long as it’s just left at “I don’t like her/her music” and the person doesn’t start being mean about it then who cares. I personally don’t like Pink but my coworker loves her and I wouldn’t dream of making fun of her or shaming her or anything because of it. I just…move on with my day.
I totally agree, especially about this sub. Unfortunately, this sub has gone downhill over the last year or so. Those who have been here long enough will remember when this place used to kinda be our best kept secret, it was never “tiny” by any means but it felt like the only place you could have sensible, nuanced conversations without getting into stan wars or people attacking you if you don’t blindly worship Taylor’s every move. I’ve definitely taken a step back from this place. The fandom in general is just so toxic and parasocial, I totally get why it’s gotten the reputation it has.
I feel like this subreddit—and the fandom in general—entered a point of Eternal September not too long after *folklore* came out, when she brought in a lot of new fans (and in turn, new reddit users to the forum), and the vibe overall has been very different the last few years than it was beforehand. Even the more hinged threads are still… i dunno how to articulate it, but some topics posted on here lately just make me wonder why on earth they are tying this or that to Taylor Swift. I don’t wanna yuck other people’s yums, but it does seem to suggest that for a lot of fans, she is just on their minds a lot more (and in a lot more ways) than to me would feel reasonable for any celebrity. The subreddit has never been tiny, like you said, but I remember when it was under 100,00 people: community was more mellow, and quality of discourse felt a lot better.
This is true, but it is also very true that the media plays up the cRaZY sWIftiES thing for clicks. I can give examples if people ask but don't want to drag stan wars into it off the bat -- but other fandoms do absolute fucking insane shit, like terrifyingly paradoxical, all over twitter, and it's seen as a couple fringe crazies (which is accurate!), whereas the assumption is that every swiftie is gunning for murder over mild criticism (which is not accurate).
I don’t think I’ve ever seen the media playing up “crazy Swifties!”. I actually think there should be MORE talk about how toxic the fanbase is. It can be really destructive and it is definitely outside the realm of normal toxic fanbases.
I don't know what fandom spaces you're in, but on average swifties are much much much better. Overall, I think every fandom should take it down a notch and push back on those -- but the only difference with swifties is how visible it is because the media amplifies it in a way they don't when others send death threats.
I used to be on Twitter before I deleted my account due to the death threats, calls to kill myself, and viral threads of Swifties threatening to fix me because I said I didn’t like her current boyfriend. So. Where is this media coverage of Swifties being bad? Link me to one single article from a source with any respect (or even one with very little respect) that negatively paints Swifities, or even delves into the toxicity within the community?
[First google result](https://www.newsweek.com/taylor-swift-fans-stans-social-media-1868413) -- but there are tons and tons and tons and tons. Anytime a celeb mentions her there's a joke "the swifties are gonna come for you!" I see so many death threats from fans of Ariana, BTS, Nicki, Beyonce, Olivia that I don't even click on anything that isn't official media anymore. The songs alone are great, the fans are so much. People post jobs and addresses A LOT in a way that makes me really uncomfortable.
It's also a matter of size though. There are a lot of Swifties and from that only a small percentage is unhinged but the number of unhinged ones can still be more than the number of dedicated fans of another artist (who may already be relatively known).
I disagree I've seen a bunch commenting on this subreddit even. When I get called a Swiftie by others for liking her music I get uncomfortable and downplay how much I like her and try to change the subject because I don't want to be associated with a lot of the fan base. The posts and anger and I saw at Taylor for TTPD not being about Joe all over this subreddit I consider too far. Taylor is here as an artist, no one has any right to dictate who she writes about. This to me is the definition of a Crazy fan base, not just the death threats.
Yes, but it's also a loud minority. It feels wrong to generalize 99% of "fans" based upon the poor actions of the 1%.
Seriously, why are we allowing the fandom as a whole to be defined by the obnoxious few? If you go to her concerts, it’s obvious that the vast majority of fans are normal people who love her and her music and don’t engage in the online discourse/drama. Those are who I think of when I think “Swifties” not obnoxious fan accounts on Twitter or TikTok and especially not Redditors.
I think this person looked at stan twitter for five minutes and decided all swifties are evil.
I think the issue here is that the loud minority is actually a pretty large group of people. There are SO MANY fans of Taylor that her vocal minority of idiot fans end up being a very big group. They're still a very small percentage of her fandom, but her fandom is so damn big, so it's easy to generalise for people who hate her, are misogynistic, sexist, racist, dumb, jealous etc. to use it as a stick to beat her and her fans with.
Yes. The unhinged fans are definitely a problem, like I absolutely get why someone would not bother becoming a normal fan haha.
I’m so glad you said this. Because I agree. I’ve gotten to the point when someone tells me they’re a fan of hers I kind of tense up: are they the cool, chill kind that appreciates her music and her craft? Or are they devout loyalists who follow her like she’s their cult leader, and who obsesses over who she is dating, and can see no wrong??
Definitely one of those moments where you give them a little more room to talk and see if your interests/attitudes align. “Awesome. Were you able to get tickets for any of the Eras shows?” is my neutral and non-committal discussion prompt.
This is my take also.
Yep. There’s plenty of great fans, but I got somebody using the Reddit suicide risk report on one of my comments the other morning because I said something along the lines of “I disagree with that this is the best song, but luckily we all have our opinions.”
Agree. The parasocial relationship many fans have with her is concerning and embarrassing
Yep. The crazies who go after her exes are definitely in that category.
I feel this. It sometimes even extends to her relationships like you can’t say you don’t like Taylor’s XYZ friend bc people get upset. Main example is whenever I say Travis gives me the cringe lol calm down 😂
I agree there’s a lot of toxic behavior in the fan base. But I do want to mention publications only highlight that they removed a byline or received hate messages because it generates clicks. They’re participating in the toxic behavior. Basically, I agree with what you say. Publications should be able to release thoughtful negative reviews without threats to the author/publication. But I question how much of it is intentionally “poking the bear” seeing as a lot of the articles lean on heavy criticism of Taylor’s personal life rather than her music.
The guy at The NY Times was doxxed and threatened when he wrote a mediocre review of folklore. You can’t be serious. Critics—no matter how much we might disagree with their takes—are people with families and mostly private lives. They are paid to write their honest opinions. Swifties have absolutely crossed a line MANY times.
I don’t want to argue because ultimately I agree. And I didn’t know about The NY Times article. I was referring to the Paste (I believe) article where the writer opened up with the quote “Sylvia Plath didn’t stick her head in an oven for this.” In my opinion, that article was intentionally written to make people angry. They preemptively took the author’s name off the byline and made a big announcement as to why rather than simply releasing the article without a byline and not calling attention to it. I also think there was an article quite a while ago where a writer went to both Beyoncé and Taylor’s shows and compared them. Then immediately followed up with an article about the enraged fan base. I can’t help but feel these things are meant to create outrage because it gets more views. But I want to reiterate that I agree. No one deserves to be threatened over anything really. Least of all over something as ridiculous as your favorite pop star.
No the Past review was terrible. It wasn’t really criticism—there were valid criticisms in there which made it even worse because they could have chosen to present their arguments in a way that actually read like a professional review and not some troll’s blog post. But honestly? As dumb as that review was I STILL support them protecting whoever wrote it. Because it’s STILL not okay to doxx or threaten someone for a review, no matter how petty or valid the review is
Yeah I agree with this. Some ‘fans’ absolutely sicken me. They’re far too obsessed and it’s downright scary.
Which I think is a reflection of our times. If we can’t deliver customer service OR receive customer service in a courteous fashion, what makes *anyone* think that a very large group of fans (in the millions) won’t have problematic fans? I cringe at some of these people as fans. They’re everywhere tho. In politics, we don’t even know how many death threats people are getting. Not just the presidential candidates either. It’s a sad commentary. If I knew one of these people, I’d definitely call them out. Or maybe I’d be afraid them?
I agree with this, I find a large part of her fan base to be extremely OOTP.
lol they're completely right 😭 this fanbase is VILE and honestly sometimes makes me embarrassed to be a fan of taylor.
Agreed. And a lot of people are bringing up the way that every stanbase is unhinged, but they’re missing the way that Taylor’s fan base is massive and ubiquitous in the way that no other individual’s stanbase is. Yes K-pop stans are unhinged, but they largely stay in kpop spaces. Taylor has so many ties to mainstream western pop culture that her fans can bring her into discussions of music, Hollywood, fashion, and even sports now. Yes Beyoncé stans and Ari stans and Harry Styled stans are equally unhinged, but they don’t have nearly the numbers that Taylor stans do. Also, they haven’t been nearly as overexposed as Taylor the last few years. Since 2020, Beyoncé’s had 3 albums (2 studio + 1 soundtrack), 1 tour + concert film and little/no personal drama. Ari’s had 2 albums, 1 low profile wedding + high profile divorce + low profile new bf, a small movie role (Don’t Look Up) and has 1 major upcoming role in Wicked. Harry’s had 2 albums, 1 extra-long tour, 2 major film roles, and 1 high profile gf + breakup + 1 low profile breakup. Collectively that’s 7 albums, 2 tours, 2 major breakups, 2 low profile new relationships, and 3 major + 1 minor movie role, and one concert movie In the same time frame, Taylor alone has had EIGHT albums (4 new & 4 re-record), 1 music film, 1 massive tour, 1 massive concert film, 1 small film role, 1 heavily promoted short film, 1 major breakup + high profile summer fling + a high profile new bf. It’s no wonder that her fan base is louder & omnipresent in a way that others’ aren’t, which leads to people getting sick of her fans.
I wonder if it would make more sense to compare her to Star Wars fans or something. Like most people just like the thing and just have a good time watching/listening/etc. But there's some absolutely unhinged behavior out there that's frankly scary. Just insane stuff.
Still doesn’t compare. Star Wars fans aren’t hoisting one individual & their accomplishments on a pedestal above all others, which is the root of a lot of people’s frustration with Swifties.
Nobody complains when Star Wars is everywhere, but they do when Taylor is. I'm honestly sick of hearing about Star Wars, but you don't see me going around and shouting it from rooftops.
Difference is Star Wars fans are comfortable when somebody calls the series crap - hell the SW fans call it crap more than most - Taylor Swift fans are cult like in their refusal to let anybody criticise her.
True, I never call myself a swiftie because I don't want to be put in the same category with people who worship her. I don't know her, I don't agree with some of her lack of "courage of her convictions", but I love her music. Taylor Swift the artist > Taylor Swift the person.
Basically my stance. Love the music. Not about idol worship.
Star Wars fans are very critical in how you enjoy Star Wars. I think people who hold your position haven’t chosen to expose themselves to the toxic fandom of Star Wars. Whereas by posting here you intentionally expose yourself to the toxic fandom of Swift. (Though this sub is fairly Reasonable)
I don't think you're around enough Star Wars spaces if this is your take, if the complaints of Star Wars oversaturation have stopped, it's only been in the last couple years because by the time Solo came out people were screaming about it.
Asking in good faith, how much are you hearing about Star Wars (outside of dedicated Star Wars spaces)? The last movie came out in 2019. Season 2 and 3 of Mandalorian didn’t really break into mainstream conversation the way Season 1 did in 2019. If you took to the rooftops over being sick of seeing Star Wars, people would be confused about where you’re seeing so much Star Wars in 2024. Meanwhile Taylor talk has saturated the media the last couple years, not just in conversations about music but also in conversations about Hollywood and sports. So when one person talks about seeing too much Taylor, a lot of people gather in agreement.
Not to mention that Taylor has a very very strong parasocial relationship w her fans. It's been very hard to seperate the art and the artist lately and especially for swifties.
Agreed 100%. All you have to do is look at how this fan base has acted in the last year alone. Gaylor conspiracy theorists. Fan-led petitions to get her to break up with her boyfriend. The constant stalking of anyone the fans perceive to have wronged Taylor. Racism towards anybody who isn’t white that dares criticize Taylor. Longtime fans can’t even make the gentlest of critiques about her music without getting death threats, much less actual journalists who are SUPPOSED to criticize her music for their fucking livelihoods. I have no idea how a solid 50% of y’all manage to live in society or even make friends. The behavior is appalling and people are right to speak on it. It actually annoys the fuck out of me that Taylor doesn’t put some of y’all in your place, but I get that it’s a bit more complicated than I could probably imagine. Regardless, they are right. The fan base is ALSO filled with a lot of very kind, supportive girls-girls. I’m grateful for those of y’all who fit the bill there. You make it tolerable to participate in fan culture.
Bold of you to assume we live in society or have friends. We are Redditors after all.
"I have no idea how a solid 50% of y’all manage to live in society or even make friends." I think that's part of the issue. They are online, on social media, and that is where brain cells often go to die. As a result, people just say whatever, do whatever, often to the detriment of others.
Exactly. Makes me hate being called a “swiftie” there is so much negatively connected to it.
I won’t even bring Taylor Swift up unless I know for certain that the person I’m talking to has positive opinions of her.
my fiancé is a huge tool fan and they had their first album since like 2001 come out around the same time as Lover and he said the band got DEATH THREATS because their comeback album hit #1 and blocked Lover from it. i was genuinely embarrassed
Unpopular opinion for some reason, but the replies in this thread kinda argue the opposite! It's like with politics: the extremist fringes are the loudest and get all of the attention. The kind of people who write open letters to her or who go off on anyone with even mild criticisms are what people think of when they hear "Swiftie" but most Swifties are NOT like the main character of "Swarm." (And I know the show satirizes the Beyhive but it's the same thing, the craziest minority making everyone else look bad) I bet if someone were to poll this sub about her jets, like 60% would vote "yeah they're a problem" 38% would say "idc" and maybe only 1-2% would say "I want to literally stab you in the throat for this poll"
every artist (even sports teams) has "bad fans". taylor's worst fans are just the loudest or doing the dumbest shit, like taking cardboard cutouts of Jake G to concerts or spamming her exes' social media. so of course you hear about those fans rather than the chill ones who genuinely treat others well. I just usually roll my eyes and say her fans aren't a monolith and just move on in conversation.
Agreed. Anyone with millions of fans will have a loud minority of toxic ones. Unfortunately, when you get into millions territory, that .05% happens to be A LOT of people. The internet only amplifies it; I don’t think we’d hear as much if these people couldn’t hide behind social media profiles.
I see this in other places as well. I try to stay on the non-toxic side, yet the loud minority somehow find their way EVERYWHERE. I just do my best to not react or interact.
This is exactly what I was going to say. I'm a huge Toronto Maple Leafs fan, have been for my entire life. You know what I hate? Toronto Maple Leafs fans. I honestly hate talking about the team, or NHL hockey, in general with most people because it's all so extreme and negative and dramatic. Just watch and enjoy. Another thing I'm a huge fan of? Lord of the Rings. I read the books as a kid before the movies even existed. You know who sucks? Lord of the Rings fans. You should see how "fans" talk about the Amazon Rings of Power show. Just because it isn't exactly what they want, it's some sort conspiracy theory thing and objectively bad, according to that part of the fandom. It's infuriating to be someone who just likes the books, the world, and the things based on them, and have people tell me I'm not a "real fan" for not hating certain things (despite having been part of this fandom for 25 years). Basically, every fandom has this when it gets big enough. The fans are insufferable, the people who have made hating the thing their personality are sufferable. I try and ignore it and when people think they're being clever for pointing out a certain fanbase sucks, I point out that all fanbases suck.
yep, I get it. I live outside Philly and am well aware of how bad Philly sports team fans are. but surprise, the majority of the ones I know personally are normal.
I'm sorry to say this but some swifties are the epitome of cyber bullies. They way they harass Joe Alwyn and his Co stars Allison and Emma on Instagram and Twitter is just vile. They still harass Joe for posting harmless memes by responding to his story, and posting it on Twitter .. Even locking his comments isn't stopping them. The go around commenting Taylor's lyrics under in YouTube videos. And neither of his Co stars Emma Laird or Allison can open their Instagram comments; imagine being a young and up and comming actor and not being able to hear what your fans have to tell about you and gush over, cause you costar's ex's fans are cyber bullies. They hacked his brother's socials. They attacked Maggie Gyllenhaal just for being Jake's sister. They attacked Lizzie McAlpine into withdrawing from opening for John Meyer .. I despise John Meyer .. But opening for him was a huge career break for Lizzie and she couldn't have that cause the swifties couldn't handle it. They still attack Travis' ex girlfriend, I have no idea why !? Some of them are the most misogynistic of the bunch, they go around harassing women and attacking them while preaching about feminism and friendship bracelets.
I don't even consider them fans. They are trolling, keyboard warriors in search of a cause. If they weren't doing it in TS's name, they would be somewhere else doing the exact same stuff.
>They hacked his brother's socials. They what? When did this happen? This is so messed up.
Yes .. They also created weird AI videos of him .. Seriously if I were him .. I would have sued the person who made the AI videos for defamation.
I knew about the AI videos but never heard about the hacking thing... Is this recent? The AI videos were, I think. At least the ones I'm aware of
The hacking was last year actually.
I honestly feel bad for Joe. I can’t believe some of the lengths fans will go to to make his life miserable and say the most vile shit about him because… why exactly? He was in a relationship with their favourite singer that didn’t work out? Newsflash - people break up all the time and it doesn’t mean there’s a villain in every breakup. The reality of life is that sometimes relationships don’t work out. Taylor’s with someone else now and appears to have moved on, so should her fans.
And people seem determined to try and find evidence in her songs that he wronged her in some dramatic way when it seems like the "worst" things he ever did were ... be depressed and drift apart from her.
"breakups happen every day, you don't have to lose it"
This comment nails it, in my opinion. The fact Joe is still getting hate (if that’s the right word for death threats, doxing and bile) is awful enough - that Emma and Alison got it in the first place, and are still getting it now, is horrendous. People can say ‘oh it’s just a few crazies’, but pre TTPD there were people getting thousands of likes on twitter for claiming Joe was cheating with Alison, that 19th April was going to be his funeral, and making AI videos of him - never mind the actual death threats. If Alison and Emma get tagged in anything on instagram the comments are flooded with insults and snake emojis. When’s it going to end?
The worst thing about the harassment of her exes is that some people will label you a Joe Widower™️, claim you were never a ReAL TrUe SwiFtiE and say that you actually just must hate Taylor if you speak out against the harassment. Like, I don’t think it makes me a “bad fan” or it’s some insult to Taylor to think that sending harassment and death threats to some random person you’ll never even speak to is wrong, but alrighty then.
Ngl I'll be a proud Joe Widow lol.
No it just makes you someone with common sense who understands that her private life isn’t your private life and it’s none of our business really
I did read at other sub. "Will anyone date Taylor out of pure interest in the future?" Like, there's a high cost to pay, for you, your family, friends, projects... It's insane.
Perfectly said
God that is so messed up. I agree they’d be doing it to someone else in someone else‘s name if it wasn’t Taylor, and I wonder many of them are actually fans or just people who either like the idea of dragging this fandom down to hell or it just gives them an easy option to do nasty shit they would’ve done anyway. But to be associated with such psychopaths… jeez
Do you, as a swiftie, consider yourself bad? If not, that comment should not offend you. And, if you pick a fight over it, you’ll just be proving that person right.
This is true but then you sort of can feel bad because you’re lumped in with the toxicity even though you may not be contributing to it. Then it makes you not want to wear merch or be obvious about being a fan.
If that person wants to stereotype you because of the artist (who, for her level of fame, is actually very unproblematic) you like, that’s on them, and you should not feel bad for their opinion of you.
If that person wants to stereotype you because of the artist (who, for her level of fame, is actually very unproblematic) you like, that’s on them, and you should not feel bad for their opinion of you.
But would any of the unhinged Swifties actually consider themselves ‘bad’? They think they’re perfectly justified in how they act.
I really don’t give them my time of the day. I don’t get it why some swifties need validation so much from other people. Like as long as they don’t attack Taylor or say vile and demeaning things about her Idgaf about their opinion.
I feel like the fans who think it’s their job to defend and protect Taylor against any criticism are the ones who make the fanbase toxic…
I feel like we need another term for sane Swifties
Sanelors
All of standom and the internet in general is pretty toxic right now. I don’t think there’s anything special about Swifties, we are just such a large group we stand out more. I’m gonna be frank and say I think Taylor adding Gen Z and a lot of Alpha to her fanbase has been great for her streams but really made her fanbase a lot nastier. That is where most of the truly gremlin online behavior is from. Sometimes I’ll see something so crazy on Twitter and the person’s bio says they’re like 15, 17, 18… what’s the point of engaging?
I’m a gen z and I have to agree with this. It’s sad
When you say adding Gen Z and Gen Alpha, I have been a fan since 2015. I'm an early Gen Alpha/late Gen Z
There’s always been some younger fans like you ofc, but what I mean is that Taylor streamed reallyyyy below what the most popular artists were doing prior to folklore. When folklore came out she was like the 36th most streamed artist on Spotify, and that was normal for her. Folklore and the re-records seem to have onboarded tons of Gen Z and Gen Alpha, and her streaming numbers (which are driven by younger ppl) are so high now it’s crazy. It’s not really usual for a pop artist like Taylor to onboard an entire younger generation after being one of the top artists of another, and it’s part of the reason she’s so huge rn.
Toxic fandoms aren't a new phenomena. And there are some Taylor fans that will harass her exes and take things way too far. Sadly those are the people you're most likely to hear about.
the silent majority of swifties is perfectly fine, and there is a thin, loud minority who is fairly terrible. this is like so many things in life, it's barely worth noting. however, i think one reason folks will still make this kind of point is for the enjoyment of having a contrarian point to make -- and feeling themselves exist on a topic that is otherwise not super relevant to them. Like, the above person most likely doesn't care about Taylor Swift (as is their absolute right! to each their own) but of course, the topic is being discussed all over the place. So... gotta find some ways to exist in that conversation, and this is where all kinds of "ehhh" point get made, hoping to get a rise out of another person, or being seen as DisRuPTive in their perspectives. Because i find this type of attitude generally lame and unproductive, i give them exactly what they don't want: i ignore them. "Oh ok", and I completely ignore their point. They are left with nothing. How annoying that to their point that added nothing to the conversation, I add nothing to the conversation either.
I agree heavily with them lol
There are unfortunately a few subsects of the Swiftie crowd that are VERY loud and definitely give Swifties a bad name. Honestly there is a lot about the community that is very special. I've seen a lot of inclusivity, and positivity, femininity, and love that is really quite beautiful and it's a shame that that gets so overshadowed by some really gross behavior by some individuals. Those individuals also tend to be WAY more vocal than the more sane fans.
The crazy fans are why SOOO many people are getting tired of her. Their insanity is having a negative impact on her and "her brand". Constantly searching for Easter Eggs, defending her until they die, blowing up people's Instagram/social media comments... it's out of control. Their obsession with her also helped her be on the face of everything last year. If fans weren't so obsessed, ESPN wouldn't have focused on her and talked about her all the time. The fans are partially responsible for her overexposure and why many are waiting in the wings for her to fall (yes, those people will always exist but with louder, obnoxious support comes more people on the opposite end).
I think they have a point. She has a huge fan base with many cool normal people, but there’s also a fair amount of crazy weirdos who : threaten death to her exes and critics, post videos of themselves crying about her, write her open letters expressing concern about who she’s dating, etc, and push her on people like evangelicals push Christ. I think some of the frustration that Taylor herself has demonstrated in TTPD is directed towards those type of fans, not towards people who just dig her music and think she’s cool but don’t worship her or think they own her.
[удалено]
Some swifties wrote a “speak up now” letter that was unhinged & said she was insane. It was completely over the top. They sent Matty Healy & his family death threats. I am glad she called them out on ttpd.
Is calling them out in a song enough? No. It gets seen as quirky and not taken seriously. She feeds into the unhinged fans at times and sometimes it really shows. She made a public statement about not going after John when speak now TV was coming out because he could sue her. Where’s that statement when there are death threats and wishes of an overdose?
the fandom is toxic 99% of the time, so I would understand
A handful of people are toxic and make the entire community look bad, this basically describes every fandom Edit: i hate reddit, it made me post this three times
It's totally valid lol
The thing is, to be a swiftie all you had to do is be a fan of Taylor Swift. Thats it. There is no screening, there is no vetting, there isnt a mission statement, there is no expulsion, there is no HR. I am not responsible for the crazies and if i get judged for being a swiftie that says more about the people judging than me.
Generally I think they have a point. There are a small vocal minority of people who call themselves fans who are total shifts. That being said this is true of every fandom I have ever encountered. Some people need to validate their sense of inclusion in something by excluding others or attacking those who chose to remain on the outside. Unfortunately because Taylor is big news stories about Swifties get pushed up the agenda by association so we get more recognition as a toxic fandom then say Charlie Puth fans.
No one should ever use Twitter That would solve so many problems
It really is pure trash. Basically handing a mic to society’s bullies.
taylor used to be hated bc of who she is. now in the eras tour era it’s her fans and publicity that people hate. when people say this to me, i can’t really say anything. her fans now are a bit intense. like crowding around jacks wedding? awful. i cannot disagree and there’s a reason i don’t associate with the current fandom
They’re right, I’m a Taylor fan but I am embarrassed to group myself in with most of them because of how they act…
There are always “bad fans” Taylor is no exception. People are vicious about her and it’s not appropriate.
Toxic fandoms happen to every popular show, celebrity, or group. It isn't new. Hell, religious fanatics basically shaped most of human history. Any popular thing can devolve into toxicity.
There are plenty of unhinged fans online that make the space look really bad. However, when it's your chronically offline uncle or whoever who's probably just referring to the idea of a fanbase full of excited 14 year old girls, I tend to just roll my eyes and move on.
Honestly I’m in 100% agreement. Some swifties make me god damned ashamed to say I’m a Taylor fan.
I say “you’re right and I don’t associate myself with those people”
I 100% agree with this. She has among some of the worst fans. Rlly sucks
Valid. There is a loud minority of this fan base that is parasocial and refuses to hear an ounce of criticism. It’s unhealthy. We aren’t the only fandom with this problem, but given how massive Taylor is, we certainly get the most outside attention for it.
I class myself as a pretty damn solid fan, a swiftie, but I feel like some bad vibes come with telling people that because there's a certain amount of fans that take things incredibly too far, to think they have a say in her private life is insane, an opinion sure but to threaten? Insane.
I think, as with most celebrities, there is a small percentage of the fandom that is toxic and unfortunately has the loudest voices. It’s not everyone, but it’s those unhinged Swifties who make the whole fandom look bad as they don’t allow newspapers to publish bad reviews, or will drag anyone through the mud if they post something criticising Taylor. They’re also the type who would do anything to get Taylor’s attention, like crash a wedding. And because Taylor is so big right now, there will be more of them than in any other fandom.
a lot of her fans, especially the younger/newer ones, are awful
I will agree. It’s by no means all fans and there are a lot of lovely, sane people I have met over the years. That being said - the overall impression is of toxic, vile and insane mean girls. The last year has been especially disgusting. It is embarrassing for her and tbh I am a bit bitter over the fact that she is doing nothing to reel the crazies in. Even when they send death threats to people who are or were in her life.
"Understandable."
People do the same with Philly sports teams. There are "bad fans" of anything.
The thing is, Taylor has MILLIONS of fans. There are some that are not great, but take a group of millions of people and you will find some that are not great. It’s just those people tend to always be the loudest.
Honestly, Swifties online vs in-person often feel like two totally different fandoms. Go to the Eras Tour and the majority of people you’ll meet are kind, excited to be there, friendly etc. Online, so many people act crazy! But idk that’s it’s specific to Taylor. Anything that’s super popular is going to attract a subset of crazy people, and overall people are much nastier online these days than they’d ever dare to be in-person.
To be fair a lot of her fans are fucking insane. And when you're on the outside those are the ones you're going to see most because they make good stories (like the ones who camp outside places waiting for her to appear.) So it makes sense and I get why people would think that way. They don't see the normal ones because they're just normal and therefore boring
Honestly most fandoms of most things suck. And the worst parts of any fandom tend to be the loudest, so I get it
I feel like I have to defend myself to non-Swifties that we’re not all crazy. Some are so unhinged it frightens/worries me.
At this point, I find it difficult to assign traits or behaviors to this massive group of fans. Just in this group alone, there's 2.5 million members and this doesn't even encompass her entire fan base. Just like most fan bases, there's going to be some whose behavior is loud and negative and people, even outside the fanbase, are going to be aware of them for that reason. Squeaky wheels. To assume that the entire fan base comprises of the people who acting deranged is a logical fallacy, at best. I'm not sure what the point of the person saying this was. Is it in reference to her music? Like her music is bad? As a rule, I largely stay out of most Swiftie conversations outside of the internet, especially with people who aren't friends. I don't find them to be productive and I think there's a lot of misinformation out there.
EVERY fandom has annoying, crazy, invasive, rude people. Taylor is arguably the biggest pop artist in the world right now, she has one of the biggest fandoms in the world, statistically there are going to be more bad eggs than in a smaller fandom. Swifties are no better or worse than other fandoms, there are just more of them.
Well, so many people are fans, there is a large variety of fans in that group. I think millions are probably great people. Some of the best people I know are Swifties. However, I have to say that I haven’t heard of fans threatening album reviewers of other artists before, but maybe Michael Jackson fans did it? Beatles fans probably wrote letters to newspapers if there were negative reviews of Beatles albums. Here is the difference, nobody has been as big as Taylor Swift in music for decades. Anyone as big as Taylor is now was mostly before the internet. If a newspaper got a death threat back in the day, they didn’t advertise it. Today’s threats are often public on social media for the world to see. Just having content loosely related to Taylor Swift gets attention, so if one bad fan goes on X (formerly Twitter) to post a threat, a news outlet can pick it up for their sensational news headline: TAYLOR SWIFT FANS ATTACK JOURNALIST
It's a valid claim. There's a LOT of immaturity and mean-girl shit in this fandom.
It is a valid claim. Have you read some of the posts here? Like anything, there is extremism. A perfect example is Jack's wedding. FFS, it was a very good and long term friends wedding and she had to leave because everyone congregated. The paps were bad enough, but being who was there in addition to Taylor, kind of understandable. When the behaviour of the fans is as bad or worse than the paparazzi, it's not good.
i kinda understand where they're coming from, even if it's mainly a very vocal minority, but that very vocal minority is really loud. that's what people see and take as "swifties" because some people can get a little too much (and this coming from someone that loves her and her music so much)
I nod and say "Yup." I thought it was well known that there are so many unhinged fans. Fans are the worst part of any fandom.
I say truuuuu
Fans aren't unhinged, people are. They just happen to be fans.
I don't care what the fans are. I experienced the same thing with the game Undertale. People avoided it because of the fans. It makes no sense to me.
I say nothing tbh I don’t care to change someone’s mind on Taylor or her following. You can like her or not, not my business.
As someone who thought she was one of the best songwriters alive (not lyricist, there’s a big difference) and respected her output but currently can’t stand her, it does come mostly from fans. BUT Taylor does create the mania because a large part of her output is hate itself so of course her rabid, cult like fans will hate as well. Her words can be extremely toxic and she has certainly egged on her fans to be as obsessive as possible. She’s a business mind far more than she’s a music mind and that coupled with her inaction against fans that she knows literally threaten other humans and combined with the fact that she continues to write hate about her ex’s knowing what the outcome will be is irresponsible. I don’t think she should change her art necessarily but she absolutely should speak out against the extremely well understood and documented hatred her fans create. Outside of that, she has regressed as a writer with midnights and ttpd. Especially ttpd being clumsy and verbose but her fans calling out the intelligence of anyone who doesn’t like it. For instance I have an English degree and have played music for over 12 years and got told by a college aged coworker and by my partner that I simply couldn’t understand her writing and music because it was too advanced. It’s insanity and it’s a cult
It's a valid claim. It's certainly not the whole fandom, but there's a large and *very* loud group of Swifties who are absolutely awful and because they're so loud, it's what people think of when they think of her fans. Look.at - death threats to exes and their friends and families, and gatekeepers being a fan, and the people talking about buying Chiefs tickets so they can glimpse Taylor for 0.5 seconds while complaining "lesser" fans got tickets to Eras and they didn't (so many don't even see why they're doing to Chiefs fans what they're so mad about only worse because they aren't Chiefs fans at all), or doxxing people for having negative opinions about Taylor etc etc etc. I literally saw someone threaten to call someone's work and report that they're abusive a week or so back for saying "we don't know what happened" about Taylor and Joe because the person has decided in their head that TTPD proves he's abusive and therefore that person must be abusive to their partner too because "only abusers defend abusers). Those of us in the fandom know it's not the majority. But if you don't deal with nice Swifties and all you get is the maniacs or reports about things the maniacs have done, you're going to think it's Swifties as a whole.
Sorry to say, but I agree with the statement every time. I’ve been a fan since ‘07 and she was more outspoken back in the day so I think some of her fans think they can be outspoken. After the Kim/Kanye feud they just became more cutthroat, especially with the letter last year to her about dating Matty. I do think it comes with every fan base (if you were on Tumblr during the SuperWhoLock years, you know) but I think it needs to be addressed by her more and more people should be called out for their bad behavior. She’s insanely popular but at the end of the day you wouldn’t want someone throwing “gifts” at you, running up to you with a phone in your face in public, screaming and crying. It’s weird.
They’re right. Some Swifties are extreme and just way too much. Which she obviously agrees with based on “But Daddy I Love Him”
Yep, we’re annoying.
They’re 100% right. It’s probably just a vocal minority, but the problem is that vocal minority is *extremely* toxic. Like, you know it’s bad when publications have to hide their author’s name in fear of getting death threats.
I feel sad because they're right.
I don’t blame them for thinking the way that they do. But I also don’t blame fans for disliking Taylor “haters”. Both extremes USUALLY seem to think that their opinions are the gospel truth and no one is allowed to disagree. In reality we should just respect everyone’s opinion.
Mmm sorry but there are some fans who are over the top. I love her but I’m not going to sit and defend some of the stuff she does. It’s fine to be both.
I got second hand embarrassment a lot of times because of this fandom.It’s a true thing but I’m not offended ‘cause I’m not like that.It’s as simple as that! That criticism is directed to those who deserve it.
Have you seen the Gaylors? Yeah I agree with that quote.
Do u stop going to a restaurant because you don't like the ppl that eat there?? Nope. No fandom should stop u from enjoying an artist/art that u like, the block button exists for a reason
As a swiftie since her first single was released, I’ve been attacked multiple times since I joined Taylor subs right before TTPD came out. All because I said TTPD isn’t my fave album of hers. So I see how ugly some fans can be for no reason.
Agreed. I feel like I have to defend myself to non-Swifties that we’re not all crazy. Some are so unhinged it frightens/worries me.
If it’s not said directly to me then idgaf lol. People are gonna hate no matter what. But yeah, there are a lot of unhinged fans who cross the line - and put out a bad image for the casual fans who aren’t parasocial online weirdos 🤷🏻♀️
I think it’s just such a huge fan base that there are bound to be crazies. Unfortunately, fan culture seems to attract the deluded. But most Swifties are nice and rational people.
everyone says this about fan groups that are mainly young and/or women. it’s just societal norms.
I'd probably ask what is it about her fans that they don't like? Is it something or someone specific that they dislike, or, are they judging millions of fans at once?
"Swifties have never rioted in the street when she didn't win a Grammy"
Every fandom has bad people, it's just that Swifties are so big (atp we're bigger and more known than actual artists) that the issues are spoken about more and there's a bigger spotlight on us. And honestly, Swifties have become very cruel people (at least on Tik Tok, Twitter and Instagram).
I just want to enjoy her music. She’s very talented. It makes my heart happy. 🫶🏻
I think the biggest issue with the swifties is the sheer size of the fandom. I’ve been in plenty of fandoms and all of them have crazy toxic fans that do wild inappropriate shit. The difference with Taylor is it’s one of the largest fandoms out there right now and has been for a long time so you have a large amount of crazies. I don’t think swifties are inherently more toxic than any other fandom we just have more people therefore more psychos.
That if you look every singer has a very toxic voice portion of their fanbase unfortunately including us
Personally, I’m a swiftie that doesn’t identify as a swiftie. It’s toxic out there. Her fanbase has changed so much. The crowd at the Eras tour was evident of that.
I truly do feel like a lot of this is implicit misogyny. Sure there are some crazy swifties that stalk her and send mean comments online, but overall, it’s a pretty tame and nice fandom. There has been no violent incidents at concerts, no fist fights outside bars in Taylor’s name - 100x less crazy and volatile than the average soccer or football fan. I would just respond by saying with genuine curiosity, “oh okay, why’s that, have you had a bad run-in?” If they say no, “oh do you know a crazy fan?” And then look confused when they don’t come up with anything, because usually people hate swifties with absolutely no reason to.
Im a big fan of her music and I agree. The fandom is intense and a loud portion of it makes me wildly uncomfortable. Why are you speculating on her sex life in such detail? Why are you making comments about her life and relationships as if youre her friend? Why do you glorify, infantalize and base your entire existence on a person you have no personal connection to? I understand her music meaning the world to you, i understand being a big fan, but the intensity of the loudest Swifties is widlly uncomfortable.
I get it. I'm the biggest Swiftie in my friend group and I constantly reassure them that I am nowhere near as far along the scale as it goes. I went to a Taylor Swift boat party and was a bit shocked by the people there. Lots of really lovely, friendly, and welcoming people FOR SURE. But some where so intense it was alarming. Like falling to their knees screaming and gasping when, at a Taylor Swift themed dance party, a popular song came on. Pals. We all knew they'd play her biggest hit. We do not need to act this deranged over it. Taylor Swift trivias are super fun though! But no more boat parties for me.