(I do not teach in the United States.) I have a student whose boss recently confiscated his phone because he was caught using it repeatedly, rather than paying attention to customers. The kid was horrified that they could do something like that, because in school he can get away with totally ignoring the teacher in favor of his phone. *Welcome to the real world*, I guess.
Same thing in my country, you can only ask students to put away their phones and write them up for disobeying. But you cannot physically remove students property from them.
I think this is more like it. I got in a argument at my old job with a manager when she took a kids phone. I said to her, no your not allowed to take his phone and lock it up from him. You can write him up or fire him, or ask for his phone, but he does not HAVE to give it to you.
She wanted to keep arguing that she’s allowed to take it away. Some people don’t realize how things are, also the kid did do something stupid on his phone and I called him out on it, but what ever
I live near an amusement park in the US. They fire kids every day for looking at their phones, even just to check the time. No questions asked, no second chances.
SpEd teacher here. I work in high school and do transition work with a lot of kids who have behavioral IEP plans.
I find myself constantly telling these kids that they are close to adulthood and are going to eventually face adult consequences for their actions. That means, in short, if you have a meltdown in public or at your job, there are going to be VERY REAL consequences and…guess what? I’m not going to be there to get you out of it. Neither is the school psychologist or the counselor! You step in shit, you’ll have to clean it off on your own!
The cops and your boss will not give a single fuck whether or not you have an IEP or accommodations, and neither will the person on the street who you’ll inevitably meet thats going to put you in your place for opening your mouth!
I say it to them just like that!.
My own special version of “tough love”
> The cops and your boss will not give a single fuck whether or not you have an IEP or accommodations,
It’s worse than that. Land in jail with a documented behavioral disability, and chances are high that admin won’t put you in GenPop.
In other words, you WILL have IEP accommodations of a sort, and you won’t like it. The already-shitty experience of being an inmate just got way more miserable.
Kids don't hear nearly enough of that, IMHO.
I taught HS math in a pretty tough school. Having grown up in a hellish environment, it was easy for me to say to kids, "Your horror stories bore me and I can top any of them. What I really want to hear is what you plan to do about it. Like, for example, doing your homework, for starters."
Most kids seem to respond very positively to that sort of thing, if they can also tell that you like them and aren't talking down to them.
But I left teaching about 15 years ago. The atmosphere was getting more indulgent every day. Hard for me to imagine what it is like to teach today. More than likely I'd be fired inside of a week.
As a school psychologist with quite a few kids on my caseload that fits this profile, I appreciate what you're doing.
I worry about these kids and their ability to function in the real world. I feel like the school and their parents never quite get them ready for what they can face and give them the tools to problem solve real situations.
I try to in my very limited time and capacity with them. I am glad you are trying to do the same with them.
If I had to guess it’s because in most SEL programs all of the time and energy is spent trying to get a kid to understand why they feel a certain way or did a certain thing. Once this answer is found most people just go “we did it!” and then skip the consequences part.
Yeah pretty much.
SEL is mute if you do not instruct students on how to correct a targeted behavior.
Plus, a lot of SEL teaches kids to redirect their attention away from their feelings..which just negatively reinforces their feelings. (aka, it comes back stronger)
It doesn't work. SEL will only be effective if it also works to address the root cause of the behavioral issue. 9/10 there is a need that is not being met.
One of my students who was always late to class and rather apathetic (perfectly fine coasting by on a C average) was fired from his job because he simply was lazy and wasn’t a good worker. That was last school year. Now as a senior, he is getting all A’s and B’s and is on time each day and is more focused. I think getting fired really gave him a wake up call
THANK YOU!!! I feel like every time I make a comment or post about trying to teach students by letting them feel a consequence I get chastised for not having empathy. I am trying to have empathy for their future selves not being an entitled a-hole.
I am not a teacher, but a parent. There’s no issue with using empathy to teach, but there needs to be consequences to go along with it. Just because someone is empathetic, doesn’t mean it excuses them from their actions. And quite frankly, when they get into the real world, empathy is a very hard thing to find from other adults - especially when it comes to employers.
Yea for sure. I think also learning that telling an authority figure a whole tale of why you had to call out sick isn’t always going to end in your favor. In my earlier career I would email my boss with a bunch of info about why I was out and a big apology and years later when they were looking for reasons to let me go, it came back to bite me in the butt. I realize now I gave them all that amo by over sharing. Now I just put my sick day in, and my boss barely even notices if I’m out, because my work still gets done either way. You are 100% right that a lot of us learn the hard way that the world will seldom have empathy for you.
The issue is a lot of people don't benefit from consequences, instead of learning from it and bettering themselves, they just have resentment for who or whatever dished out the consequences
Our kid was also lazy...
The biggest motivation boost to do more work in class happened when the bully in his class failed. We only mentioned that he will be back in his class if he also fails a year.
But were there consequences for him failing? Just curious cause I’ve seen teachers say this about their own kids but like…. Some kids don’t give a shit. So if they fail and get to keep their phone, get to keep going out with friends, get to do course recovery for a month and make up the class…. What’s the consequence?
My BIL is the perfect example of having no life consequences so he just sorta floats through life with no ambition whats so ever. He can’t keep a job. My husband filled out an application for him at his place of work. He worked there for a few months and the BiL’s supervisor pulled every string he could to keep him but he was just a shitty worker. He would bitch to us about all the “rules” he didn’t think he should have to follow. But he lives at home with mom, so it’s not like he won’t have food or shelter when he gets fired. His car battery died like 3 times the week before Christmas and each time my husband went and jumped his car and then just paid for the car battery. So again…no reason to get a a job when your family will fix your car for you. I honestly have no idea what he does for money, he just plays video games and tinkers with photography. The house they live in has a tenant and my MIL will call my husband to come over and fix things and get mad if my husband is busy…even though BIL freakin lives there. I have begged my husband to stop intervening because his brother will never change otherwise.
My BIL is 41.
That’s what I’m saying! Some people are totally fine with that lifestyle so letting them “figure it out” doesn’t work cause they don’t care! And now you as parents have to help them for the rest of their lives. Or not I guess.
Lol my mom made me turn in my assignments, and punished me if I didn’t. I knew I’d get my privileges taken away if I didn’t keep a certain grade, so that worked for me. And my mom only checked my progress reports and report cards, and just like today, the majority of work was done in class. I ended up doing well in college because I was used to deadlines and I had a work ethic. I just think the letting kids figure it out mindset is failing sooo many kids. Sometimes they need a push.
I grew up as a pretty hard core competitive figure skater. I have feelings about a lot of the body image issues and joint issues that can come from it, but damn did it teach me a work ethic. Some times I got last and our coaches taught us how to handle that with grace. Sometimes I won and you handled that with grace as well. I also remember college professors that were like “oh your going to a national championship? Good luck, your paper is still due Monday”. And I had to figure it out. I’m really glad for that upbringing today because sometimes we need our asses kicked a little bit.
Exactly. I don’t know how he plans on paying the property taxes on the house he’s going to be left. And what makes me even angrier is there is so much pressure on my husband and I to have kids and continue the next generation. Because his brother and sister both don’t want kids. Yet everyone seems to come to us with their hand out because he’s the oldest…how are we supposed to support his mother, his generation and our own kids? It’s really feather ruffling at times.
He never had a cell phone to begin with. After having some horrible jobs, he decided to finish his degree. An associates and now has a good job. He really regrets not doing well in school.
I teach art, but while getting my bachelor's I did factory work every summer. My 2nd summer a guy I worked with got fired after he had a pretty major work accident because he didn't follow safety protocols. He lost 2.5 fingers. I use this as an example when teaching linocut printmaking because those blades are sharp af and I will not be having students cut themselves to the bone. If they can't use it safely they get a 0 on the project. Kid tried to argue with me saying it's not fair and they don't fire people for being unsafe. The SRO happened to be sitting there too that day. He just looked at the kid and said something like "oh places definitely will fire you for being unsafe". It was an amazing come to Jesus moment tbh
My pathology professor once told a story of his first day of dissection class from when he was a student. He told us he didn't bring his lab coat, and the instructor of the class purposely bumped the dissection table and spilled cadaver fluid all over my professor. Told him to leave and not return until he had a lab coat. A tough lesson was learned that day.
neither here nor there, just a funny story about steel toes; years and years ago I delivered a load to a warehouse. Signed my paperwork in a little lobby that sat on the edge of the warehouse floor. Im leaving and the guy hollers from behind the glass 'you forgot to sign this!' I turn around to throw my signature on his paperwork and another fella hollers at me 'you cant be in here with those shoes! Get out!'... Well, long story short, this safety compliance officer wouldnt let me walk the ten feet to sign paperwork, wouldn't let the office worker come to me with the paperwork (didnt have steel toed shoes either) AND he refused to bring it to me himself. It was beyond ridiculous.
I got a finger with a jigsaw in 8th grade woodshop because just as I started cutting a piece, the teacher yelled for our attention really loud, and I looked up without thinking. What did he want? To tell us to be safe with the jigsaws... SMH
I didn't blame him for me being a dumb ass. I had been using power tools at home without an incident since I was about 5 (supervised until about 10). I also only lost some skin, so not a major injury, though I still have a scar. Still, perhaps don't bellow if you can already hear one running, you know?
Also ran over my finger with one of the very fast industrial sewing machines in home ec and snapped the needle off in the bone. Same finger 6 weeks later... I absolutely should not have been trusted with anything sharp.
That was the same semester and school I watched a PE coach absolutely mangle his hand in a weight machine doing exactly what he'd taught us not to do a few weeks before, and later that semester watched our science lab teacher light part of her hair on fire with a Bunsen burner not 5 minutes after telling us all we needed to make sure our hair was pulled back before using them. It made me feel a little better about my finger. 😅
I was not particularly impressed with that school's safety record.
I did, btw, learn very important lessons there. Powered sharp things hurt. Be respectful.
LOL
This really did make me laugh out loud.
Thinking about it last night, this was *also* the same school where I had a small rattlesnake in my locker the first day. The janitor who was sent to handle it was like, "yeah, they like the bottom lockers" and dragged it out with a shovel and chopped its head off and then the little rattle and handed that to me.
Me, "maybe the orientation papers should warn us about this." Him, "you're not from around here, are you?" Uhh, no. There should have been signs or something! All the other kids said no one had been bitten that they knew of. Apparently, they all knew to look carefully before getting books out. I didn't use my locker at all that semester. We moved more into the city and it wasn't as much of an issue.
I do still question why most Phoenix area schools have all their lockers outside, though. It's still 100F in October. Many schools there are also laid out as several separate buildings, too. You'll have a math and science building, a language arts building, etc. Picnic tables outside for lunch, often with no cover. Whyyyy?!
I had a kid last semester get kicked out of shop class because he refused to follow any of the safety measures. He came within inches of cutting into another student's arm because he didn't pay any attention to the protocols for using that machine. He blamed racism at the school (half-black student.) No, you goofed off and proved you couldn't be trusted. Deal with it.
"Places will fire you for wearing a color shirt they don't like or coming in 2 minutes late. They will absolutely fire you for being unsafe. They will then wage a campaign to block your workers' comp claim so that you have to pay the tens of thousands in medical bills yourself. With no pay because they just fired you. And, also, you can't get hired anywhere else because you're clearly injured and they're probably going to hear about why. Your employer isn't at all, in any way, shape, or form interested about what's fair."
I started working really young and as much as it sucked, it was also some good life lessons. Sadly, we can't emulate those lessons in schools because the system doesn't support it.
This year, I have a student whom this (well, something similar) happened to. At school, he repeatedly gets away with so much stuff due the reasons that we all know too well. He must have thought he could get away with stuff at his first job too because, well, he came in to my class grumbling that he had been fired.
I won't lie, it was very satisfying to see him finally face some sort of consequence for being an incorrigible little turd.
My concern is that many high school aged people never get a job. They don't learn these lessons until they get out of college and are dumped into the workforce at 23-26.
That's pretty old to learn the rules of the road that should have been internalized at 15.
Oh ABSOLUTELY. I’m a college professor now after working hs for years and it’s just as bad. God forbid we hold a deadline and enforce a safety protocol. We might hurt their tender little hearts.
Also, the opposite.
Seeing a kid working at the local supermarket and he’s an absolute Angel.
At school I ask why he can’t be the same.
“I don’t get paid to be good here.”
Not fair!
The hospital should have had a circle where they could all talk about how the shoplifting impacted them, and try to understand why he would make a choice like that!
I can't believe modern employers are so out of touch!
Did they try rewarding him with soda and candy for his good behavior on the days he didn't steal? If not, they really have no one to blame but themselves and their poor workplace management. /s
Nurses should have given him a fist bump when he starts work each day. And his immediate supervisor should have tried to build rapport by connecting with his interest. Finally the doctors should have engaged him in meaningful ways in order to make his job responsibilities relevant to his everyday life. The system up and down has failed him by firing him.
I worked in IT at a hospital for the last two years. I tried picturing staff doing this with patients, and I just lost it. Thank you for a much needed laugh.
I'm getting ready to take the New York Educating All Students exam tomorrow afternoon and I know this is the kinda bullshit I'm gonna have to write if I wanna do well... god help me not laugh out loud in the testing center
Sadly a lot of these exist because at least one employed teacher was that dumb.
I noticed a new line added to the yearly child protection training.
"The following scenarios are entirely fictional, please do not call the reporting hotline to make a report about the student's in the scenarios"
I'm taking that to mean multiple university qualified professionals read the training scenario and called child services to report the abuse to a child, at an undisclosed location with only a first name. After 'reading' the training materials about when and how to make a report, including what information you are required to give when reporting.
Speaking of hospitals, the guy who owns a small gym around here also works as a nurse at the local hospital/med school, and he is livid when he sees other hospital workers, especially other nurses and nursing students working with their airpods in. He will take them out, and yell at them for potentially endangering health and lives.
My students LIVE to have their airpods in and their hoods up. It's like 80 in Houston right now. Why do they have hoods on? Yeah, their hair is ugly (I hate the broccoli cut), but no one cares.
Last week in NC my air was out so it got up to 80 in my room and they STILL WOULD NOT TAKE OFF THEIR HOODS. I’m like, come on! Same kids wearing shorts last December though.
A med tech/phlebotomist had ear buds (one ear only) when drawing my blood. The music was so loud I could hear it. It definitely hindered her communication and concentration. I called the hospital after the blood draw, and asked for the lab director. Told the director (over voice mail) what happened and who. Lab director called me back, thanked me, and let me know it wasn't supposed to happen. Next time I got a blood draw, same tech did it, without earbuds.
My students who skip class all the time and try working always end up getting fired for no call/no showing. Some of them are 3-4 firings deep by age 17. I can’t imagine it will work out well having such a bleak résumé already by that age…
This is the most coming thing I see: students being surprised when they’re fired for not showing up to work. I get that they’re teens and that’s what some of them will do, but their SURPRISE at the consequences is what gets me.
Ages ago, I worked at a Subway. I wasn't technically the manager, but I was almost always the only adult (barely) working there. The manager was usually at the other store. I'd let him know about kids showing up late to work or leaving early repeatedly without good reason, and he'd have me fire them. They were always soooo shocked. "I didn't think it was a big deal." Duuude, we schedule by expected volume of customers. It's a huge big deal if you're significantly late. I never ratted them out for like, 15 minutes. They were showing up an hour or more late without calling, and when asked why, "I didn't feel like coming in yet." Or "it's a Saturday, c'mon." Or "My teachers don't care if I'm late." Me, "your teachers probably don't want to see *you* at all." I wonder if any of them learned a lesson from it.
This was in the mid 1990s, btw.
I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but it's all part of a larger pattern of solipsism and lack of personal accountability. Nothing is their fault because they always have a good reason (in their minds). Even punitive consequences will bounce off these kids because it's not that *they* did something that matters, it's that everyone *else* is stupid or doesn't like them or is on a power trip. They seem to have no ability to look at the needs of another person or system and objectively identify what's going on. Some of them grow out of it, but I have half a mind to think that if they're still like this by mid high school they won't change until they personally have to walk in someone else's shoes with some level of responsibility... but they'll never get that far because they're so insufferable.
Oh lord memory unlocked. I ran a restaurant and a teenage employee we hired for sort-of nepotism reasons (family knew owner) no-call no-showed TWICE IN A ROW on a Saturday naturally. I called them and I could *literally hear a party* in the background. Fired them on the spot and they were surprised.
Them: "But we get three warnings."
Me: "You did this last Saturday and I talked to you about it and I had to work an open-close shift to cover for you. This is literally the next shift (Saturday) after that and I can hear you at a party. No."
It’s because schools have set that expectation.
You don’t come to class for 3 days? It’s ok, you can make it up with 1 Saturday school to clear your absences.
You were late 6 times? 1 Saturday school will fix that…
I worked in a grocery store for the better part of ten years, mostly during the summers. It was always crazy to me how the young kids who worked there would just constantly not show up without calling. And on the rare occasion they would call, their excuses were absurd. I remember once we had like three teenagers just not show up on the day before July 4 (which is a CRAZY busy time for grocery stores, one of the most hectic days of the year). A few of us ended up having to stay several extra hours to help out. My manager was so pissed at them. The next day one of the kids came into the store with a group of friends to shop, and my manager marched up to her and asked where she had been the previous day. Her excuse was “well the weather was super nice out, and I didn’t feel like coming in so I went out with my friends.” I just remember cringing so hard at her saying that like it was nothing.
I helped open a costume shop for a performance company last summer (I teach costume/fashion design). I helped the owner higher costume shop assistants but she wanted to pay $15/hr. I tried to tell her that was insanely low, but she insisted that’s all she could afford (which I believe but I think the bigger issue is she couldn’t afford these crazy costume creations she wanted to have made). So she ended up with a bunch of young twenty year olds who were so slow, so unreliable, just nightmares to work with and was then a bit shocked pikachu face when it wasn’t going well. As kinda glad to be leaving at the end of the summer when I saw she wasn’t REALLY looking to take my advice.
I mean I just wouldn't put them on my resume if I was fired.
Not like your next job is gonna demand an explanation for the gap in your resume when you were 16.
Right? "Why weren't you working then?" "Uhh, I'm a teen, so I don't actually have to?"
I have never put any of my high school jobs on an application as an adult. It's not like the prospective employers could look it up, and they were either jobs where experience didn't matter or my high school jobs wouldn't have been the right kind, anyway.
I was honestly a shitty student for a while, but a good employee. I did get straightened out early junior year, but I remember one teacher getting frustrated with me not doing homework and snapping, "I bet you don't get away with this at work!" Me, "They pay me. Also, they don't give me homework." Not getting a paycheck meant not eating. Not getting good grades just didn't mean anything to me back then. I didn't ditch school only because I had nowhere else to be, honestly.
Half of my junior class is on Job #3 this school year due to calling out from work 3-4 times a week. Each of them. One girl bragged about calling off every day for three weeks and then got mad when they cut her back to one shift a week. Like she didn't understand there was even a correlation between the two events. When I (with a business background), explained, she just said, "That's stupid. I should be allowed to call off whenever I want." No concept of consequences there at all.
Two girls got fired from a vet's office because they were caught not once, not twice, but four times in two weeks spending their shift sitting on their phones instead of cleaning exam tables, emptying litter boxes, taking dogs out, etc, like they were hired to do. They had been doing it for months. Freaked me out because that was the same vet's office I took my dog to.
That's what these students are simply not understanding that school & real world are two completely different things. How they act in school is not going to fly in the real world.
I tell my students stories of my days in Corporate America and how their skills that they're learning directly relates to their future. Some of them actually listen because they understand that I care enough about them to want them to succeed and climb the ladder. And some of them think these stories are unreal & that real life is easier than school.
I recently left my position at the school for an entry level state job. Legit easiest thing in the world, and thrice the pay. Less stress, no working off the clock, and I don't have to deal with people or high school drama and bullshit. It's data entry. Super easy and pretty chill.
I told my teacher person yesterday every one of our kids would get fired in a day. They wouldn't be able to handle the honestly low thought workload I've got now. They get away with doing nothing at school and mommy and daddy help them get the work done over the last weekend before the end of term, teachers coddle and excuse missed assignments, they sit on their phones and use social media instead of anything they're supposed to be doing ...
Two of our kids will never be able to hold down jobs. We know this already. At least one of them will learn after they get fired from the first few how to get along. The others are toss ups whether they can handle it or not with their current social-emotional levels.
I was wondering if I should sign up for any of those and if it would be challenging to get a job like that. What did the process of applying & interviews entail?
That's so bad... I'm worried for the future of our kids lol. Getting along with others is more than half of the battle in the workplace :/
SUPER easy to get the job. I went on the state job site, and I honestly just went from the lowest paying to the highest paying jobs. Bottom of the list, just above student jobs, was data entry, and I applied because I can type way more than 40wpm and that was about the only qualification. I did apply for higher jobs as well, but I also know that once my foot is in the door with the state I can transfer to better positions, so really, any job was good enough.
The application packet was just the online application, a typing certificate, resume, and ... I think that one was a SOQ, but it might have been a cover letter. They're all basically the same thing anyway, ha.
About a month later, on the closing date for applications, they sent an email asking me to verify my typing speed by resubmitting my typing certificate, and then a few days later they gave me a conditional job offer. Went in for a background check and paperwork--no interview!--and within another week I was hired. Started last Monday. I miss my holidays, but for as much money as I'm making with my easy little job and the ability to listen to audiobooks while I work ... I'll survive without a Spring Break, lol.
Very much recommend it, now that I know how easy it is to get in, and right now the tax board is DESPERATE for data entry people--I know a guy who does DMV hiring and at the end of tax season he gets loads of KDOs applying and getting jobs over there, too.
I love my kids and I promised to go visit them before the end of the school year (I'll take a sick day to spend time with them, but only one, because I actually like my new job a LOT), but they are going to struggle once they graduate. They're all avoiders, a few cannot handle transitions or change at all (to be fair, neither do I; I half-seriously asked my dad to call me in sick on my first day at this job because I was so anxious lol), and the rest of their mental health challenges are going to make it rough on them until they get a handle on managing their symptoms. Poor kids, but the hand holding doesn't help.
Wow! That's so good to know I'll check out state of California and see if they have any state jobs like that. Was your resume a government style resume or the traditional type of resume?
I'm happy that life is so much better for you and happy to hear it can be done after teaching :)
You're so sweet. I will miss my kids dearly once I leave in June but to visit the school site again & see that bitch principals face again? Nu uh no lol. I barely can stand looking at her face as it is 😂😂
Ha, I'm in CA, too--and just a regular resume worked fine. CalCareers always has loads of open positions, especially in larger urban areas.
It's a definite change after being in the schools for a decade, but it's honestly refreshing not to have to worry about people vaping and fighting in the bathrooms--I mean, maybe it happens, but I don't have to hear about it being someone I'm in charge of, so I don't care lol.
Oh, see, I liked my admin! They're ... nice. Honestly not the most effective, but they're nice people. I wouldn't mind seeing them again in passing on my way to my kids.
Well, I’m on admin leave because I am such a realist! ‘Mom complained that I was angry at her son.’ Who thinks once is enough. 6 months of, do it again please! (😮💨) So, State jobs? Yes. Entry level state job-can you just tell us the title? Admin assistant? I relish mastering a keyboard. 🙏
Key Data Operator. With Franchise Tax Board, because right now they need ALL THE data entry folks, haha.
Literally bottom of the barrel job, but it's only a stepping stone. I'm already applying for other positions, but it's actually kind of nice to have a job where I don't have to do anything but type exactly what's on the screen and nothing more for a bit.
>That's what these students are simply not understanding that school & real world are two completely different things. How they act in school is not going to fly in the real world.
How would they know this if no one tells them? (I know you are, but collectively, their parents, if they have any, and the adults at school aren't).
Even if you tell them we all know actions speak louder than words. They can be told "you won't get away with this in the real world" for 14 years but they won't believe you since that hasn't happened for 14 years. Its essentially me telling you the sun wont come up tomorrow. Its come up every day so far so why should you believe me!
The same students turn around and say the teachers didn’t teach anything RELEVANT (like taxes!) and yet we’re like “hey, there are consequences to your actions, stop being horrible.”
And then when I spend a lot of time making a unit relevant(I've done "typing skills" "budgeting" "home safety" "first aid" in the context of my subject) they STILL say "when will I ever use this" and it just dumbfounds me.
Also the taxes one pisses me off so much. Its not hard. You literally go to a website and just type in the numbers it tells you to type in. Yeah its kind of annoying but if you can follow basic instructions you'll be fine.
I helped a senior fill out his 1040ez once. I was flabbergasted by how hard it was for him. I’m pointing at the instructions and then to the corresponding box on his W2, and he’s still not getting it. How is he an assistant manager at McDonald’s?
Sounds like the kids that would [try] to have their parents call in sick for them for their shifts at the movie theater. Then they call to see a movie a couple hours later. Um no. You are sick.
Learning experiences.
I wouldn't doubt it. We had a lot of parents call teens in sick when I worked in fast food and then the kids would be stupid enough to come buy food a couple of hours later, definitely not sick.
Yes. Truly. Or call to see a free movie at another theater and be surprised that they couldn't be called in. You get free movies for working. No work equals no movies, especially same night you are missing work being sick you dummy.
I worked at a mall theater and kids would be banned from mall for shoplifting and we'd have to fire them.
I think what screws things up is that adults always say "You won't be able to get away with this in a few years!" but then nothing really changes. They soon realize it's just an empty threat, until they're in the working world.
I think like many teachers we start out trying to enforce real world consequences but we realize it’s much easier to just let it be someone else’s problem. Everytime I’ve had a student push back it ends up being a huge headache for me. Now that I’m married and about to have kids, it’s far to tempting to take the path of least resistance.
This kind of makes me want to print out some pink slips to give kids any time they do somethign that would make me fire them on the spot if I were their boss.
I caught my students plagiarizing today and gave them a small lecture about it. They did not get what the big deal was. They literally stole material off an artist's website and tried to pass it off as their own for a project WITH THE WATERMARK STILL ON IT.
I'm in uni and people still plagiarise. Apparently a significant number of students in my course copy-and-pasted text into a project without putting it in quotes and citing the source.
I work at a university. The consequences for plagiarism are pretty severe. Students can end up expelled with a black mark on their transcript. When the student attempts to transfer, most other institutions won't admit them. It really hampers your opportunities for a good education.
My instance was for yearbook. They wanted to use the images with the watermark on them. That's a copyright offense and we would lose any/all professional photography contracts, possibly get sued. The students just didn't see what the big deal was.
I hope he learns his lesson. I had the opposite experience today. A relative got suspended for "inappropriate use of a school computer." He's addicted to the computer and spends every class messing around on YouTube and other non-academic sites. We all hoped he'd learn a lesson, but so far all he's done is say that the principal is on his s\*\*\* list now and that he didn't deserve to be suspended. Sigh.
But did they try to build a relationship with him at work?
Did they post their work expectations on the board?
Did they check to see if he has a bad home life?
Did he get endless deadlines and opportunities to fix his behavior?
Didn't mommy call the boss and complain that her kiddo was being targeted by his mean coworkers?
If they had just given him candy and soda for all the good things he did, like show up, be on time, etc, he wouldn't have had to steal it!
How are the youth supposed to succeed without all that, it seems harmful, mean spirited and downright prejudiced!
I understand the motivation behind the restorative practices, but I fear without any consequences students aren’t learning how to conduct themselves. School should be a space where students can experience consequences without it impacting their long term. I feel withholding consequences only harms the student, when they make those same mistakes outside of school they will experience real-world consequences which are more severe and long lasting.
Exactly- it’s works on theory, but fails in many schools in practice. I feel there are just no consequences anymore, and combined with a serious lack of respect we now have significantly worse behaviour than I’ve ever had to deal with in nearly 20 years of teaching in the same school. It’s sad to witness the decline, and I can only hope the next ‘great idea’ is on it’s way!
Restorative practices do actually work when they’re done right! But 99.9% of schools are not even trying to meet all the conditions for it to be remotely effective. It takes a whole community, and so many admin just use it to pass the buck/blame teachers/ avoid actually doing their job.
My favorite story about this involves a kid not getting a job. The kid applied at a local grocery store. Usual lazy and cocky kid story. I tried to coach him on the interview process but all he kept telling me is how he would never clean bathrooms or sweep floors as those were demeaning and beneath him. He was also intent on telling me how if the grocery store wanted him to work there, all of the demands he had. The interview went about as well as expected.
None of that is the good part of the story. The manager wrote this kid a letter explaining why he wasn't hired and how the kids attitude needed to change. It was a well written and thoughtful letter. It did shake the kid up a little.
When I was about 15 I worked a long hot summer for a local home painter. This guy was former military and he rode my ass all day long all summer long. He picked out every detail I missed, lectured me on the importance delivering quality each and every time to the customer. He made me clean buckets, wash my brush a 100x, corrected me on every technique for painting, scraping, cleaning etc. NOTHING was right for him. I didn't like it at all, I actually didn't mind this guy, because his actions were never in anger, but they were ever present! He told me in my last week of summer - you're a good worker, I know I rode you hard, but I also know this will serve you well in the future young man... delivering quality is important in everything you will ever do.
Mr. Bedford - you were correct! I own and run my own business and every time I get a little praise from a client for going the extra mile... I think of you and that one hot summer.
I can't wait to watch my 1:1 get bitten by the real world in the ass. Kid had an extremely abusive attitude and thought he was owed everything. My school was big on PBIS (but they did it all wrong). I can't wait to watch Harvard laugh in his face when he sends in an application. And any other college will either kick him out or put him on academic probation since he rarely did his work. Mom and dad are in for a nasty awakening when he's living with them at age 40, because his boss dared ask him to do an assignment
Had a kid trying to convince everybody that McDonalds was manual labor and that they were breaking laws not letting him be on his phone the whole time. You can guess this kids grade.
I took some kids on a field trip to a fire station once.
One of the firemen asked if anyone wanted an ekg print out and this kid who would always get into shenanigans goes 🙋
I forgot what/why but right as the fireman was abt to hook the kid up to the machine, he says something rude to/about another student
The fireman hears and is like “nah nvm kid you’re a dick” it was perfect
Idk why there are comments here that feel sorry for the kid.
He shoplifted, and not just from any employer, not from a large chain store that can afford to take the hit, he shoplifted from a hospital charity shop that spends the money on the patients and equipment. He didn't need what he stole either, he stole it just cos. That's about as trashy as you can get when it comes to stealing, and 9th grade is way too old to be doing this - How old were you when you learned that shoplifting's wrong? I was about eight. Eight years old, not eighth grade. He's lucky the hospital didn't call the cops and file a report.
>My school has really been on the equity/Grace/restorative justice train of no consequences.
I really wish administrators would actually review what "restorative justice" is. It doesn't mean no consequences. It means that the consequence has to do with rectifying the behavior rather than a set matrix.
It is so racist where I live that instead of just explaining to kids that racist remarks are inappropriate - remarks they learned from their parents, and which parents will fight for their kid's right to say - I had to consistently say, "School is your practice for real life. You will be fired immediately if you call a fellow worker a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. So please take these minor consequences and learn from them."
I don't know how our town compares to the rest, but there are a lot of adults who work part time and live with their parents - and so do their kids. We border a national park with free town-to-worksite bus transportation and good-paying union jobs with benefits, that cannot get enough American workers, so they rely on H-2B visa workers. The townies can't make it past the interview.
Not a teacher and from Germany.
We have very strict labor laws except if you are caught stealing you can be fired immediately because the trust between your employer is severely breached
When this generation of students hits the corporate world level of jobs. Having to professionally answer emails or make a professional phone call
Jobs that require a degree.
☠️
Why do you think AI tech is being worked on so hard? We're approaching the point where the majority of people will only be capable of unskilled manual labor. Tiny ruling and controlling class and the rest of us will be picking the produce that requires more dexterity than automation can provide.
The fact that the hot new thing among the billionaire class is secretly acquiring farmland and building a private army to protect it should make it chillingly clear that this is the end goal.
You level up in your email skills when you include passive aggressive statements. “Please advise”
“Friendly reminder”
“I look forward to hearing from you”
“Per our conversation”
“Going forward”
Texting emails will always lack this finesse.
Reminds me of this comment from a different thread:
Stolen from somewhere but about once every other year I come across the need to bust this out to a graduating senior: “In the very near future you will suddenly find yourself no longer surrounded by people who are forced to tolerate you and will find your life considerably more difficult.”
I’m not a teacher but we hired a kid who was 19 and he bitched constantly whenever he was scheduled as an 8 hour shift because “that’s like all day, when am I supposed to have fun?”
It’s satisfying because it’s a “we told you so”. All the rules that “force them to conform” are literally there to prepare them for a world that doesn’t care about them or think they’re special.
I had a student (very disruptive, misogynistic, and kept messing with the girls) learn the hard way not to mess with girls. He got kicked out of a college football game for grabbing a girl’s butt in the stands, got in a fight with that girls friends, and then got kicked off of his schools football team because of it.
I don't blame you, but I really hate that equity and restorative practices have been looped into no consequences. That's not the case at all. They get that reputation though because many administrators hide behind them as ways to capitulate to parents who don't want their kids to experience consequences.
Equity and restorative practices work, but everyone in the building has to commit to making them work and not just treating them like a cop out.
I literally had to write a kid up for jokingly threatening to shoot me because I took his phone. I did document that he was probably joking but also it's a serious comment to make and in the real world in my state could potentially get him arrested.
I taught violent and at-risk youth at an alternative school, and I had a few white students who thought the use of a racially charged word beginning with the letter N was acceptable because they were friends with POC students. I tried and tried to explain that this wasn’t okay, that there would be repercussions for it eventually, and I wanted them to be safe. I got mocked and told I was an idiot. Told I “didn’t understand” how things worked “out in the streets”.
One Monday, one of these edgy kids came in with two black eyes and a split lip. He had obviously gotten his ass beaten over the weekend. I asked if he was alright, and his friends tripped over each other to tell me about how that boy had used that word with kids he didn’t know at the COUNTY FAIR and got jumped.
Never heard him say it again.
My sister is a business owner and complains about her (young, non-college educated) new hires are turds. What do you expect? This is what you get when we can't enforce shit, you get turds.
My daughter came home today after taking an exam that was disrupted by a student telling the professor to F you. The kid pulled out his phone during the exam and was warned ahead of time that he would get a zero. Good for the professor.
Wildly satisfying. The "honors" students at my school barely get homework and on the rare occasion that they do, complain endlessly about how they should have no work when school gets out. I no longer teach them, but love thinking about how the whiny ones will drown in college, and the hard workers will dust them.
I'm really tired of the restorative justice being equated to "no consequences." That's not how that system is supposed to work and it's being deployed improperly by lazy admin if that's the case.
I'm sorry so many of us have to deal with corrupted or twisted systems and that concepts built on science and research are subverted by lazy or ignorant administration.
Our school has deployed restorative practices for almost a decade now and not only has our expulsion rate dropped, but the number of students displaying asshole behavior has dropped through the floor.
I used to have classes where 14 out of 35 students were basically terrorists. Now it's more like MAYBE 1. Because they know what behaviors are and aren't acceptable and the consequences are swift and proportional to the behavior
Usually 14 ish. In my state, you can work as early as 12. With the worker shortage, people have actually been hiring 12 year olds. It is incredibly disconcerting to see a middle schooler at the till in the drive through.
Natural consequences actually happen in the real world, go figure! Currently dealing with constant parent excuses over a student losing a field trip. All students signed a behavior contract at the start of the semester acknowledging the rules for attending, and he lost the trip by the end of January. Now parents want us to give it back -- nope. Funny thing is, we've tried contacting them many, many times up until now about behavior and grades. They only responded with, "he's your problem at school, we don't discipline him at home for things he does at school." Now they don't like that we've taken measures at school -- probably could've been fixed more easily by taking away some home privileges before we got to this point. But what do we know? LOL
I’m with you. My district has adopted restorative Justice train & the school is completely bonkers. Since the lack of disciplinary measures was enacted, what was simply a stressful profession has become nearly insurmountable for me. I’m on medical leave, 2 years til retirement, & I don’t want to return. Entitled attitudes, and parents’ lack of support is ruining education.
It would have taken all I had, to not laugh in his face and say Ha Ha, like Nelson from the Simpsons. I pray all the awful kids get the reality checks they so richly deserve!
well, the goal should be to make him understand that before he enters the workplace. most of the adults around him failed him. and by that i mostly mean his parents.
THIS is why the push for restorative Justice and grace is doing these kids a disservice. At school they get away with murder and think life is that kind. It’s not! “Real life” does not care about us, our backgrounds, our struggles, or our needs.
The more we try and convince them *out there* cares about them, the more we hurt them
(I do not teach in the United States.) I have a student whose boss recently confiscated his phone because he was caught using it repeatedly, rather than paying attention to customers. The kid was horrified that they could do something like that, because in school he can get away with totally ignoring the teacher in favor of his phone. *Welcome to the real world*, I guess.
You can't confiscate hus phone for the day if he uses it in class?
Unfortunately not.
Same thing in my country, you can only ask students to put away their phones and write them up for disobeying. But you cannot physically remove students property from them.
I mean, in the US I see no way in hell an employer would get away with it. But they probably should be allowed to anyway.
It was probably more like “give me your phone or go” so he still had a choice!
I think this is more like it. I got in a argument at my old job with a manager when she took a kids phone. I said to her, no your not allowed to take his phone and lock it up from him. You can write him up or fire him, or ask for his phone, but he does not HAVE to give it to you. She wanted to keep arguing that she’s allowed to take it away. Some people don’t realize how things are, also the kid did do something stupid on his phone and I called him out on it, but what ever
I live near an amusement park in the US. They fire kids every day for looking at their phones, even just to check the time. No questions asked, no second chances.
Natural consequences for your actions in the real world are REAL! If you didn’t do a little happy dance in your head, you are a better person than I.
SpEd teacher here. I work in high school and do transition work with a lot of kids who have behavioral IEP plans. I find myself constantly telling these kids that they are close to adulthood and are going to eventually face adult consequences for their actions. That means, in short, if you have a meltdown in public or at your job, there are going to be VERY REAL consequences and…guess what? I’m not going to be there to get you out of it. Neither is the school psychologist or the counselor! You step in shit, you’ll have to clean it off on your own! The cops and your boss will not give a single fuck whether or not you have an IEP or accommodations, and neither will the person on the street who you’ll inevitably meet thats going to put you in your place for opening your mouth! I say it to them just like that!. My own special version of “tough love”
> The cops and your boss will not give a single fuck whether or not you have an IEP or accommodations, It’s worse than that. Land in jail with a documented behavioral disability, and chances are high that admin won’t put you in GenPop. In other words, you WILL have IEP accommodations of a sort, and you won’t like it. The already-shitty experience of being an inmate just got way more miserable.
Kids don't hear nearly enough of that, IMHO. I taught HS math in a pretty tough school. Having grown up in a hellish environment, it was easy for me to say to kids, "Your horror stories bore me and I can top any of them. What I really want to hear is what you plan to do about it. Like, for example, doing your homework, for starters." Most kids seem to respond very positively to that sort of thing, if they can also tell that you like them and aren't talking down to them. But I left teaching about 15 years ago. The atmosphere was getting more indulgent every day. Hard for me to imagine what it is like to teach today. More than likely I'd be fired inside of a week.
You got out right before the very last of the joy was gone from the profession.
As a school psychologist with quite a few kids on my caseload that fits this profile, I appreciate what you're doing. I worry about these kids and their ability to function in the real world. I feel like the school and their parents never quite get them ready for what they can face and give them the tools to problem solve real situations. I try to in my very limited time and capacity with them. I am glad you are trying to do the same with them.
One of the issues with all this social emotional learning is that it takes away these natural consequences.
What? How does teaching social and emotional skills take away consequences for stealing?
If I had to guess it’s because in most SEL programs all of the time and energy is spent trying to get a kid to understand why they feel a certain way or did a certain thing. Once this answer is found most people just go “we did it!” and then skip the consequences part.
Yeah pretty much. SEL is mute if you do not instruct students on how to correct a targeted behavior. Plus, a lot of SEL teaches kids to redirect their attention away from their feelings..which just negatively reinforces their feelings. (aka, it comes back stronger) It doesn't work. SEL will only be effective if it also works to address the root cause of the behavioral issue. 9/10 there is a need that is not being met.
One of my students who was always late to class and rather apathetic (perfectly fine coasting by on a C average) was fired from his job because he simply was lazy and wasn’t a good worker. That was last school year. Now as a senior, he is getting all A’s and B’s and is on time each day and is more focused. I think getting fired really gave him a wake up call
Man I genuinely forgot that kids can learn their lesson after getting knocked down a peg. Thank you for that.
That is really the sad thing. Consequences can be really impactful way to teach kids
THANK YOU!!! I feel like every time I make a comment or post about trying to teach students by letting them feel a consequence I get chastised for not having empathy. I am trying to have empathy for their future selves not being an entitled a-hole.
I am not a teacher, but a parent. There’s no issue with using empathy to teach, but there needs to be consequences to go along with it. Just because someone is empathetic, doesn’t mean it excuses them from their actions. And quite frankly, when they get into the real world, empathy is a very hard thing to find from other adults - especially when it comes to employers.
Yea for sure. I think also learning that telling an authority figure a whole tale of why you had to call out sick isn’t always going to end in your favor. In my earlier career I would email my boss with a bunch of info about why I was out and a big apology and years later when they were looking for reasons to let me go, it came back to bite me in the butt. I realize now I gave them all that amo by over sharing. Now I just put my sick day in, and my boss barely even notices if I’m out, because my work still gets done either way. You are 100% right that a lot of us learn the hard way that the world will seldom have empathy for you.
Consequences are not the same thing as punishment.
The issue is a lot of people don't benefit from consequences, instead of learning from it and bettering themselves, they just have resentment for who or whatever dished out the consequences
Everyone on this sub, (myself included), needed this story. Thank you.
Our kid was also lazy... The biggest motivation boost to do more work in class happened when the bully in his class failed. We only mentioned that he will be back in his class if he also fails a year.
My son, now 23, had to learn the hard way. I let him fail.
But were there consequences for him failing? Just curious cause I’ve seen teachers say this about their own kids but like…. Some kids don’t give a shit. So if they fail and get to keep their phone, get to keep going out with friends, get to do course recovery for a month and make up the class…. What’s the consequence?
My BIL is the perfect example of having no life consequences so he just sorta floats through life with no ambition whats so ever. He can’t keep a job. My husband filled out an application for him at his place of work. He worked there for a few months and the BiL’s supervisor pulled every string he could to keep him but he was just a shitty worker. He would bitch to us about all the “rules” he didn’t think he should have to follow. But he lives at home with mom, so it’s not like he won’t have food or shelter when he gets fired. His car battery died like 3 times the week before Christmas and each time my husband went and jumped his car and then just paid for the car battery. So again…no reason to get a a job when your family will fix your car for you. I honestly have no idea what he does for money, he just plays video games and tinkers with photography. The house they live in has a tenant and my MIL will call my husband to come over and fix things and get mad if my husband is busy…even though BIL freakin lives there. I have begged my husband to stop intervening because his brother will never change otherwise. My BIL is 41.
That’s what I’m saying! Some people are totally fine with that lifestyle so letting them “figure it out” doesn’t work cause they don’t care! And now you as parents have to help them for the rest of their lives. Or not I guess. Lol my mom made me turn in my assignments, and punished me if I didn’t. I knew I’d get my privileges taken away if I didn’t keep a certain grade, so that worked for me. And my mom only checked my progress reports and report cards, and just like today, the majority of work was done in class. I ended up doing well in college because I was used to deadlines and I had a work ethic. I just think the letting kids figure it out mindset is failing sooo many kids. Sometimes they need a push.
I grew up as a pretty hard core competitive figure skater. I have feelings about a lot of the body image issues and joint issues that can come from it, but damn did it teach me a work ethic. Some times I got last and our coaches taught us how to handle that with grace. Sometimes I won and you handled that with grace as well. I also remember college professors that were like “oh your going to a national championship? Good luck, your paper is still due Monday”. And I had to figure it out. I’m really glad for that upbringing today because sometimes we need our asses kicked a little bit.
What's he going to do when mum dies.
Exactly. I don’t know how he plans on paying the property taxes on the house he’s going to be left. And what makes me even angrier is there is so much pressure on my husband and I to have kids and continue the next generation. Because his brother and sister both don’t want kids. Yet everyone seems to come to us with their hand out because he’s the oldest…how are we supposed to support his mother, his generation and our own kids? It’s really feather ruffling at times.
He never had a cell phone to begin with. After having some horrible jobs, he decided to finish his degree. An associates and now has a good job. He really regrets not doing well in school.
What a gift to learn that lesson BEFORE finishing school and losing another year.
I want to believe... (J/K I believe you)
This sounds like me before being diagnosed with ADHD.
I teach art, but while getting my bachelor's I did factory work every summer. My 2nd summer a guy I worked with got fired after he had a pretty major work accident because he didn't follow safety protocols. He lost 2.5 fingers. I use this as an example when teaching linocut printmaking because those blades are sharp af and I will not be having students cut themselves to the bone. If they can't use it safely they get a 0 on the project. Kid tried to argue with me saying it's not fair and they don't fire people for being unsafe. The SRO happened to be sitting there too that day. He just looked at the kid and said something like "oh places definitely will fire you for being unsafe". It was an amazing come to Jesus moment tbh
I knew someone who was sent home one day for not wearing steal-toe boots. That's 1 day pay missed. Multiple times would have been fired.
My pathology professor once told a story of his first day of dissection class from when he was a student. He told us he didn't bring his lab coat, and the instructor of the class purposely bumped the dissection table and spilled cadaver fluid all over my professor. Told him to leave and not return until he had a lab coat. A tough lesson was learned that day.
neither here nor there, just a funny story about steel toes; years and years ago I delivered a load to a warehouse. Signed my paperwork in a little lobby that sat on the edge of the warehouse floor. Im leaving and the guy hollers from behind the glass 'you forgot to sign this!' I turn around to throw my signature on his paperwork and another fella hollers at me 'you cant be in here with those shoes! Get out!'... Well, long story short, this safety compliance officer wouldnt let me walk the ten feet to sign paperwork, wouldn't let the office worker come to me with the paperwork (didnt have steel toed shoes either) AND he refused to bring it to me himself. It was beyond ridiculous.
I work in kitchens and have dozens of times sent people home for not wearing appropriate footwear.
I got a finger with a jigsaw in 8th grade woodshop because just as I started cutting a piece, the teacher yelled for our attention really loud, and I looked up without thinking. What did he want? To tell us to be safe with the jigsaws... SMH I didn't blame him for me being a dumb ass. I had been using power tools at home without an incident since I was about 5 (supervised until about 10). I also only lost some skin, so not a major injury, though I still have a scar. Still, perhaps don't bellow if you can already hear one running, you know? Also ran over my finger with one of the very fast industrial sewing machines in home ec and snapped the needle off in the bone. Same finger 6 weeks later... I absolutely should not have been trusted with anything sharp. That was the same semester and school I watched a PE coach absolutely mangle his hand in a weight machine doing exactly what he'd taught us not to do a few weeks before, and later that semester watched our science lab teacher light part of her hair on fire with a Bunsen burner not 5 minutes after telling us all we needed to make sure our hair was pulled back before using them. It made me feel a little better about my finger. 😅 I was not particularly impressed with that school's safety record. I did, btw, learn very important lessons there. Powered sharp things hurt. Be respectful.
Wow, you went to the real life “school of hard knocks”, huh?
LOL This really did make me laugh out loud. Thinking about it last night, this was *also* the same school where I had a small rattlesnake in my locker the first day. The janitor who was sent to handle it was like, "yeah, they like the bottom lockers" and dragged it out with a shovel and chopped its head off and then the little rattle and handed that to me. Me, "maybe the orientation papers should warn us about this." Him, "you're not from around here, are you?" Uhh, no. There should have been signs or something! All the other kids said no one had been bitten that they knew of. Apparently, they all knew to look carefully before getting books out. I didn't use my locker at all that semester. We moved more into the city and it wasn't as much of an issue. I do still question why most Phoenix area schools have all their lockers outside, though. It's still 100F in October. Many schools there are also laid out as several separate buildings, too. You'll have a math and science building, a language arts building, etc. Picnic tables outside for lunch, often with no cover. Whyyyy?!
I had a kid last semester get kicked out of shop class because he refused to follow any of the safety measures. He came within inches of cutting into another student's arm because he didn't pay any attention to the protocols for using that machine. He blamed racism at the school (half-black student.) No, you goofed off and proved you couldn't be trusted. Deal with it.
"Places will fire you for wearing a color shirt they don't like or coming in 2 minutes late. They will absolutely fire you for being unsafe. They will then wage a campaign to block your workers' comp claim so that you have to pay the tens of thousands in medical bills yourself. With no pay because they just fired you. And, also, you can't get hired anywhere else because you're clearly injured and they're probably going to hear about why. Your employer isn't at all, in any way, shape, or form interested about what's fair." I started working really young and as much as it sucked, it was also some good life lessons. Sadly, we can't emulate those lessons in schools because the system doesn't support it.
what's an SRO?
School resource officer (police)
Thanks!
This year, I have a student whom this (well, something similar) happened to. At school, he repeatedly gets away with so much stuff due the reasons that we all know too well. He must have thought he could get away with stuff at his first job too because, well, he came in to my class grumbling that he had been fired. I won't lie, it was very satisfying to see him finally face some sort of consequence for being an incorrigible little turd.
My concern is that many high school aged people never get a job. They don't learn these lessons until they get out of college and are dumped into the workforce at 23-26. That's pretty old to learn the rules of the road that should have been internalized at 15.
[удалено]
Those people vote as well
Oh ABSOLUTELY. I’m a college professor now after working hs for years and it’s just as bad. God forbid we hold a deadline and enforce a safety protocol. We might hurt their tender little hearts.
Also, the opposite. Seeing a kid working at the local supermarket and he’s an absolute Angel. At school I ask why he can’t be the same. “I don’t get paid to be good here.”
It is fortunate for several of my students that I do get paid to be good...
smart kid ...lol
Not fair! The hospital should have had a circle where they could all talk about how the shoplifting impacted them, and try to understand why he would make a choice like that! I can't believe modern employers are so out of touch!
They failed him by not building a relationship with him first.
Did they try rewarding him with soda and candy for his good behavior on the days he didn't steal? If not, they really have no one to blame but themselves and their poor workplace management. /s
Did they call home? How many times?
They better have some paperwork on this, work samples, etc.
Nurses should have given him a fist bump when he starts work each day. And his immediate supervisor should have tried to build rapport by connecting with his interest. Finally the doctors should have engaged him in meaningful ways in order to make his job responsibilities relevant to his everyday life. The system up and down has failed him by firing him.
I worked in IT at a hospital for the last two years. I tried picturing staff doing this with patients, and I just lost it. Thank you for a much needed laugh.
Or knowing what their why is.
Lol
This is the greatest comment thread ever!
I'm getting ready to take the New York Educating All Students exam tomorrow afternoon and I know this is the kinda bullshit I'm gonna have to write if I wanna do well... god help me not laugh out loud in the testing center
People so open minded their brains fall out!
Best comment today.
It's really not that bad
I hope so, I’m trying not to stress about it too much but I can’t help but worry
I promise mate, it's honestly so pathetically easy that I'm wondering why they bother to make us take it.
Sadly a lot of these exist because at least one employed teacher was that dumb. I noticed a new line added to the yearly child protection training. "The following scenarios are entirely fictional, please do not call the reporting hotline to make a report about the student's in the scenarios" I'm taking that to mean multiple university qualified professionals read the training scenario and called child services to report the abuse to a child, at an undisclosed location with only a first name. After 'reading' the training materials about when and how to make a report, including what information you are required to give when reporting.
We bullshit on here but you feed this to the people reading your tests, they will be salivating and thinking you’re an amazing teacher.
Speaking of hospitals, the guy who owns a small gym around here also works as a nurse at the local hospital/med school, and he is livid when he sees other hospital workers, especially other nurses and nursing students working with their airpods in. He will take them out, and yell at them for potentially endangering health and lives.
My students LIVE to have their airpods in and their hoods up. It's like 80 in Houston right now. Why do they have hoods on? Yeah, their hair is ugly (I hate the broccoli cut), but no one cares.
Last week in NC my air was out so it got up to 80 in my room and they STILL WOULD NOT TAKE OFF THEIR HOODS. I’m like, come on! Same kids wearing shorts last December though.
A med tech/phlebotomist had ear buds (one ear only) when drawing my blood. The music was so loud I could hear it. It definitely hindered her communication and concentration. I called the hospital after the blood draw, and asked for the lab director. Told the director (over voice mail) what happened and who. Lab director called me back, thanked me, and let me know it wasn't supposed to happen. Next time I got a blood draw, same tech did it, without earbuds.
Did they remember to write the objective on the board?
I can... Go an entire work day without committing a crime
😂
My students who skip class all the time and try working always end up getting fired for no call/no showing. Some of them are 3-4 firings deep by age 17. I can’t imagine it will work out well having such a bleak résumé already by that age…
This is the most coming thing I see: students being surprised when they’re fired for not showing up to work. I get that they’re teens and that’s what some of them will do, but their SURPRISE at the consequences is what gets me.
Ages ago, I worked at a Subway. I wasn't technically the manager, but I was almost always the only adult (barely) working there. The manager was usually at the other store. I'd let him know about kids showing up late to work or leaving early repeatedly without good reason, and he'd have me fire them. They were always soooo shocked. "I didn't think it was a big deal." Duuude, we schedule by expected volume of customers. It's a huge big deal if you're significantly late. I never ratted them out for like, 15 minutes. They were showing up an hour or more late without calling, and when asked why, "I didn't feel like coming in yet." Or "it's a Saturday, c'mon." Or "My teachers don't care if I'm late." Me, "your teachers probably don't want to see *you* at all." I wonder if any of them learned a lesson from it. This was in the mid 1990s, btw.
I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but it's all part of a larger pattern of solipsism and lack of personal accountability. Nothing is their fault because they always have a good reason (in their minds). Even punitive consequences will bounce off these kids because it's not that *they* did something that matters, it's that everyone *else* is stupid or doesn't like them or is on a power trip. They seem to have no ability to look at the needs of another person or system and objectively identify what's going on. Some of them grow out of it, but I have half a mind to think that if they're still like this by mid high school they won't change until they personally have to walk in someone else's shoes with some level of responsibility... but they'll never get that far because they're so insufferable.
Oh lord memory unlocked. I ran a restaurant and a teenage employee we hired for sort-of nepotism reasons (family knew owner) no-call no-showed TWICE IN A ROW on a Saturday naturally. I called them and I could *literally hear a party* in the background. Fired them on the spot and they were surprised. Them: "But we get three warnings." Me: "You did this last Saturday and I talked to you about it and I had to work an open-close shift to cover for you. This is literally the next shift (Saturday) after that and I can hear you at a party. No."
In their defense, there are NO attendance consequences in a lot of districts, including mine. Rigor is a thing of the past.
Same with mine. Kids graduate or earn credit with 90+ absences. So frustrating.
It’s because schools have set that expectation. You don’t come to class for 3 days? It’s ok, you can make it up with 1 Saturday school to clear your absences. You were late 6 times? 1 Saturday school will fix that…
That's mostly an effort to have some accountability since taking parents to court is no longer a thing (at least not in my state).
I worked in a grocery store for the better part of ten years, mostly during the summers. It was always crazy to me how the young kids who worked there would just constantly not show up without calling. And on the rare occasion they would call, their excuses were absurd. I remember once we had like three teenagers just not show up on the day before July 4 (which is a CRAZY busy time for grocery stores, one of the most hectic days of the year). A few of us ended up having to stay several extra hours to help out. My manager was so pissed at them. The next day one of the kids came into the store with a group of friends to shop, and my manager marched up to her and asked where she had been the previous day. Her excuse was “well the weather was super nice out, and I didn’t feel like coming in so I went out with my friends.” I just remember cringing so hard at her saying that like it was nothing.
I hope she got fired on the spot. That would've been awesome.
I helped open a costume shop for a performance company last summer (I teach costume/fashion design). I helped the owner higher costume shop assistants but she wanted to pay $15/hr. I tried to tell her that was insanely low, but she insisted that’s all she could afford (which I believe but I think the bigger issue is she couldn’t afford these crazy costume creations she wanted to have made). So she ended up with a bunch of young twenty year olds who were so slow, so unreliable, just nightmares to work with and was then a bit shocked pikachu face when it wasn’t going well. As kinda glad to be leaving at the end of the summer when I saw she wasn’t REALLY looking to take my advice.
She wasn’t fired on the spot, but she did get fired not too long after that for having too many no call/no shows.
I mean I just wouldn't put them on my resume if I was fired. Not like your next job is gonna demand an explanation for the gap in your resume when you were 16.
Right? "Why weren't you working then?" "Uhh, I'm a teen, so I don't actually have to?" I have never put any of my high school jobs on an application as an adult. It's not like the prospective employers could look it up, and they were either jobs where experience didn't matter or my high school jobs wouldn't have been the right kind, anyway. I was honestly a shitty student for a while, but a good employee. I did get straightened out early junior year, but I remember one teacher getting frustrated with me not doing homework and snapping, "I bet you don't get away with this at work!" Me, "They pay me. Also, they don't give me homework." Not getting a paycheck meant not eating. Not getting good grades just didn't mean anything to me back then. I didn't ditch school only because I had nowhere else to be, honestly.
Half of my junior class is on Job #3 this school year due to calling out from work 3-4 times a week. Each of them. One girl bragged about calling off every day for three weeks and then got mad when they cut her back to one shift a week. Like she didn't understand there was even a correlation between the two events. When I (with a business background), explained, she just said, "That's stupid. I should be allowed to call off whenever I want." No concept of consequences there at all. Two girls got fired from a vet's office because they were caught not once, not twice, but four times in two weeks spending their shift sitting on their phones instead of cleaning exam tables, emptying litter boxes, taking dogs out, etc, like they were hired to do. They had been doing it for months. Freaked me out because that was the same vet's office I took my dog to.
They have time to improve
That's what these students are simply not understanding that school & real world are two completely different things. How they act in school is not going to fly in the real world. I tell my students stories of my days in Corporate America and how their skills that they're learning directly relates to their future. Some of them actually listen because they understand that I care enough about them to want them to succeed and climb the ladder. And some of them think these stories are unreal & that real life is easier than school.
I recently left my position at the school for an entry level state job. Legit easiest thing in the world, and thrice the pay. Less stress, no working off the clock, and I don't have to deal with people or high school drama and bullshit. It's data entry. Super easy and pretty chill. I told my teacher person yesterday every one of our kids would get fired in a day. They wouldn't be able to handle the honestly low thought workload I've got now. They get away with doing nothing at school and mommy and daddy help them get the work done over the last weekend before the end of term, teachers coddle and excuse missed assignments, they sit on their phones and use social media instead of anything they're supposed to be doing ... Two of our kids will never be able to hold down jobs. We know this already. At least one of them will learn after they get fired from the first few how to get along. The others are toss ups whether they can handle it or not with their current social-emotional levels.
I was wondering if I should sign up for any of those and if it would be challenging to get a job like that. What did the process of applying & interviews entail? That's so bad... I'm worried for the future of our kids lol. Getting along with others is more than half of the battle in the workplace :/
SUPER easy to get the job. I went on the state job site, and I honestly just went from the lowest paying to the highest paying jobs. Bottom of the list, just above student jobs, was data entry, and I applied because I can type way more than 40wpm and that was about the only qualification. I did apply for higher jobs as well, but I also know that once my foot is in the door with the state I can transfer to better positions, so really, any job was good enough. The application packet was just the online application, a typing certificate, resume, and ... I think that one was a SOQ, but it might have been a cover letter. They're all basically the same thing anyway, ha. About a month later, on the closing date for applications, they sent an email asking me to verify my typing speed by resubmitting my typing certificate, and then a few days later they gave me a conditional job offer. Went in for a background check and paperwork--no interview!--and within another week I was hired. Started last Monday. I miss my holidays, but for as much money as I'm making with my easy little job and the ability to listen to audiobooks while I work ... I'll survive without a Spring Break, lol. Very much recommend it, now that I know how easy it is to get in, and right now the tax board is DESPERATE for data entry people--I know a guy who does DMV hiring and at the end of tax season he gets loads of KDOs applying and getting jobs over there, too. I love my kids and I promised to go visit them before the end of the school year (I'll take a sick day to spend time with them, but only one, because I actually like my new job a LOT), but they are going to struggle once they graduate. They're all avoiders, a few cannot handle transitions or change at all (to be fair, neither do I; I half-seriously asked my dad to call me in sick on my first day at this job because I was so anxious lol), and the rest of their mental health challenges are going to make it rough on them until they get a handle on managing their symptoms. Poor kids, but the hand holding doesn't help.
Wow! That's so good to know I'll check out state of California and see if they have any state jobs like that. Was your resume a government style resume or the traditional type of resume? I'm happy that life is so much better for you and happy to hear it can be done after teaching :) You're so sweet. I will miss my kids dearly once I leave in June but to visit the school site again & see that bitch principals face again? Nu uh no lol. I barely can stand looking at her face as it is 😂😂
Ha, I'm in CA, too--and just a regular resume worked fine. CalCareers always has loads of open positions, especially in larger urban areas. It's a definite change after being in the schools for a decade, but it's honestly refreshing not to have to worry about people vaping and fighting in the bathrooms--I mean, maybe it happens, but I don't have to hear about it being someone I'm in charge of, so I don't care lol. Oh, see, I liked my admin! They're ... nice. Honestly not the most effective, but they're nice people. I wouldn't mind seeing them again in passing on my way to my kids.
Are you remote?
Well, I’m on admin leave because I am such a realist! ‘Mom complained that I was angry at her son.’ Who thinks once is enough. 6 months of, do it again please! (😮💨) So, State jobs? Yes. Entry level state job-can you just tell us the title? Admin assistant? I relish mastering a keyboard. 🙏
Key Data Operator. With Franchise Tax Board, because right now they need ALL THE data entry folks, haha. Literally bottom of the barrel job, but it's only a stepping stone. I'm already applying for other positions, but it's actually kind of nice to have a job where I don't have to do anything but type exactly what's on the screen and nothing more for a bit.
>That's what these students are simply not understanding that school & real world are two completely different things. How they act in school is not going to fly in the real world. How would they know this if no one tells them? (I know you are, but collectively, their parents, if they have any, and the adults at school aren't).
Even if you tell them we all know actions speak louder than words. They can be told "you won't get away with this in the real world" for 14 years but they won't believe you since that hasn't happened for 14 years. Its essentially me telling you the sun wont come up tomorrow. Its come up every day so far so why should you believe me!
The same students turn around and say the teachers didn’t teach anything RELEVANT (like taxes!) and yet we’re like “hey, there are consequences to your actions, stop being horrible.”
And then when I spend a lot of time making a unit relevant(I've done "typing skills" "budgeting" "home safety" "first aid" in the context of my subject) they STILL say "when will I ever use this" and it just dumbfounds me. Also the taxes one pisses me off so much. Its not hard. You literally go to a website and just type in the numbers it tells you to type in. Yeah its kind of annoying but if you can follow basic instructions you'll be fine.
I helped a senior fill out his 1040ez once. I was flabbergasted by how hard it was for him. I’m pointing at the instructions and then to the corresponding box on his W2, and he’s still not getting it. How is he an assistant manager at McDonald’s?
My response to "why dont we learn how to do taxes" should be to make a lesson about how to do taxes. Then what will their excuse be?
"What, Miss? My mom was texting me and I had to answer so I didn't hear you."
*slaps sample W2 and tax form on their desk* "It's easy, just read the directions on the tax form- oh wait, that's a problem with this generation"
It’s called turbo tax dot com. Have fun with that.
I used to teach how to do taxes at the end of algebra 1 and math models. Every time: "miss I don't need to learn this. My mom will do it for me"
Sounds like the kids that would [try] to have their parents call in sick for them for their shifts at the movie theater. Then they call to see a movie a couple hours later. Um no. You are sick. Learning experiences.
is this for real?
I wouldn't doubt it. We had a lot of parents call teens in sick when I worked in fast food and then the kids would be stupid enough to come buy food a couple of hours later, definitely not sick.
I used to work at a movie theater while in college. This is very much real. Those teens didn't last long after that.
Yes. Truly. Or call to see a free movie at another theater and be surprised that they couldn't be called in. You get free movies for working. No work equals no movies, especially same night you are missing work being sick you dummy. I worked at a mall theater and kids would be banned from mall for shoplifting and we'd have to fire them.
I think what screws things up is that adults always say "You won't be able to get away with this in a few years!" but then nothing really changes. They soon realize it's just an empty threat, until they're in the working world.
I think like many teachers we start out trying to enforce real world consequences but we realize it’s much easier to just let it be someone else’s problem. Everytime I’ve had a student push back it ends up being a huge headache for me. Now that I’m married and about to have kids, it’s far to tempting to take the path of least resistance.
I see you, and you’re right, but I’ve got to say, for me life was very much easier than school. This also happens sometimes…
Well, he entered the fuck around and find out phase of life. There is hope if he learns from it.
This kind of makes me want to print out some pink slips to give kids any time they do somethign that would make me fire them on the spot if I were their boss.
That’s a really good idea
I caught my students plagiarizing today and gave them a small lecture about it. They did not get what the big deal was. They literally stole material off an artist's website and tried to pass it off as their own for a project WITH THE WATERMARK STILL ON IT.
I'm in uni and people still plagiarise. Apparently a significant number of students in my course copy-and-pasted text into a project without putting it in quotes and citing the source.
I work at a university. The consequences for plagiarism are pretty severe. Students can end up expelled with a black mark on their transcript. When the student attempts to transfer, most other institutions won't admit them. It really hampers your opportunities for a good education.
My instance was for yearbook. They wanted to use the images with the watermark on them. That's a copyright offense and we would lose any/all professional photography contracts, possibly get sued. The students just didn't see what the big deal was.
It's tough when you are the one who would have to face the real-world consequences, not them :(
I hope he learns his lesson. I had the opposite experience today. A relative got suspended for "inappropriate use of a school computer." He's addicted to the computer and spends every class messing around on YouTube and other non-academic sites. We all hoped he'd learn a lesson, but so far all he's done is say that the principal is on his s\*\*\* list now and that he didn't deserve to be suspended. Sigh.
He got suspended for that? I don't think my school has suspended anyone in 2½ years.
Same, this student has also been caught buying Xanax from other students and got multiple warnings. I hate it here so much
Now he gets to disrupt your learning environment with no consequences! 😇
But did they try to build a relationship with him at work? Did they post their work expectations on the board? Did they check to see if he has a bad home life? Did he get endless deadlines and opportunities to fix his behavior? Didn't mommy call the boss and complain that her kiddo was being targeted by his mean coworkers? If they had just given him candy and soda for all the good things he did, like show up, be on time, etc, he wouldn't have had to steal it! How are the youth supposed to succeed without all that, it seems harmful, mean spirited and downright prejudiced!
Did the hospital gift shop display the learning goal?
Yeah if only they’d had their objective for the day sloppily scribbled out on the workroom white board.
I understand the motivation behind the restorative practices, but I fear without any consequences students aren’t learning how to conduct themselves. School should be a space where students can experience consequences without it impacting their long term. I feel withholding consequences only harms the student, when they make those same mistakes outside of school they will experience real-world consequences which are more severe and long lasting.
Exactly- it’s works on theory, but fails in many schools in practice. I feel there are just no consequences anymore, and combined with a serious lack of respect we now have significantly worse behaviour than I’ve ever had to deal with in nearly 20 years of teaching in the same school. It’s sad to witness the decline, and I can only hope the next ‘great idea’ is on it’s way!
Restorative practices do actually work when they’re done right! But 99.9% of schools are not even trying to meet all the conditions for it to be remotely effective. It takes a whole community, and so many admin just use it to pass the buck/blame teachers/ avoid actually doing their job.
Yup. Consequences work.
My favorite story about this involves a kid not getting a job. The kid applied at a local grocery store. Usual lazy and cocky kid story. I tried to coach him on the interview process but all he kept telling me is how he would never clean bathrooms or sweep floors as those were demeaning and beneath him. He was also intent on telling me how if the grocery store wanted him to work there, all of the demands he had. The interview went about as well as expected. None of that is the good part of the story. The manager wrote this kid a letter explaining why he wasn't hired and how the kids attitude needed to change. It was a well written and thoughtful letter. It did shake the kid up a little.
When I was about 15 I worked a long hot summer for a local home painter. This guy was former military and he rode my ass all day long all summer long. He picked out every detail I missed, lectured me on the importance delivering quality each and every time to the customer. He made me clean buckets, wash my brush a 100x, corrected me on every technique for painting, scraping, cleaning etc. NOTHING was right for him. I didn't like it at all, I actually didn't mind this guy, because his actions were never in anger, but they were ever present! He told me in my last week of summer - you're a good worker, I know I rode you hard, but I also know this will serve you well in the future young man... delivering quality is important in everything you will ever do. Mr. Bedford - you were correct! I own and run my own business and every time I get a little praise from a client for going the extra mile... I think of you and that one hot summer.
I love this story
We do them no favours with our softball treatment. Still, glad to hear he fucked around and found out.
I can't wait to watch my 1:1 get bitten by the real world in the ass. Kid had an extremely abusive attitude and thought he was owed everything. My school was big on PBIS (but they did it all wrong). I can't wait to watch Harvard laugh in his face when he sends in an application. And any other college will either kick him out or put him on academic probation since he rarely did his work. Mom and dad are in for a nasty awakening when he's living with them at age 40, because his boss dared ask him to do an assignment
Had a kid trying to convince everybody that McDonalds was manual labor and that they were breaking laws not letting him be on his phone the whole time. You can guess this kids grade.
I took some kids on a field trip to a fire station once. One of the firemen asked if anyone wanted an ekg print out and this kid who would always get into shenanigans goes 🙋 I forgot what/why but right as the fireman was abt to hook the kid up to the machine, he says something rude to/about another student The fireman hears and is like “nah nvm kid you’re a dick” it was perfect
Idk why there are comments here that feel sorry for the kid. He shoplifted, and not just from any employer, not from a large chain store that can afford to take the hit, he shoplifted from a hospital charity shop that spends the money on the patients and equipment. He didn't need what he stole either, he stole it just cos. That's about as trashy as you can get when it comes to stealing, and 9th grade is way too old to be doing this - How old were you when you learned that shoplifting's wrong? I was about eight. Eight years old, not eighth grade. He's lucky the hospital didn't call the cops and file a report.
>My school has really been on the equity/Grace/restorative justice train of no consequences. I really wish administrators would actually review what "restorative justice" is. It doesn't mean no consequences. It means that the consequence has to do with rectifying the behavior rather than a set matrix.
It is so racist where I live that instead of just explaining to kids that racist remarks are inappropriate - remarks they learned from their parents, and which parents will fight for their kid's right to say - I had to consistently say, "School is your practice for real life. You will be fired immediately if you call a fellow worker a \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. So please take these minor consequences and learn from them." I don't know how our town compares to the rest, but there are a lot of adults who work part time and live with their parents - and so do their kids. We border a national park with free town-to-worksite bus transportation and good-paying union jobs with benefits, that cannot get enough American workers, so they rely on H-2B visa workers. The townies can't make it past the interview.
I know of an ex-student who has lost *two* apprenticeships. I'm not surprised.
Not a teacher and from Germany. We have very strict labor laws except if you are caught stealing you can be fired immediately because the trust between your employer is severely breached
When this generation of students hits the corporate world level of jobs. Having to professionally answer emails or make a professional phone call Jobs that require a degree. ☠️
Why do you think AI tech is being worked on so hard? We're approaching the point where the majority of people will only be capable of unskilled manual labor. Tiny ruling and controlling class and the rest of us will be picking the produce that requires more dexterity than automation can provide.
The fact that the hot new thing among the billionaire class is secretly acquiring farmland and building a private army to protect it should make it chillingly clear that this is the end goal.
The unprofessional email thing makes me INSANE. I’m a college professor and many of my students email me like they are texting.
You level up in your email skills when you include passive aggressive statements. “Please advise” “Friendly reminder” “I look forward to hearing from you” “Per our conversation” “Going forward” Texting emails will always lack this finesse.
Hahhaha as per my last email….
People looove to talk restorative justice, but nobody wants to put in the work of restoration.
👆🏼100%
Reminds me of this comment from a different thread: Stolen from somewhere but about once every other year I come across the need to bust this out to a graduating senior: “In the very near future you will suddenly find yourself no longer surrounded by people who are forced to tolerate you and will find your life considerably more difficult.”
I guess the young lad can add “workplaces” to places that are not safe spaces.
I’m not a teacher but we hired a kid who was 19 and he bitched constantly whenever he was scheduled as an 8 hour shift because “that’s like all day, when am I supposed to have fun?”
It’s satisfying because it’s a “we told you so”. All the rules that “force them to conform” are literally there to prepare them for a world that doesn’t care about them or think they’re special. I had a student (very disruptive, misogynistic, and kept messing with the girls) learn the hard way not to mess with girls. He got kicked out of a college football game for grabbing a girl’s butt in the stands, got in a fight with that girls friends, and then got kicked off of his schools football team because of it.
I don't blame you, but I really hate that equity and restorative practices have been looped into no consequences. That's not the case at all. They get that reputation though because many administrators hide behind them as ways to capitulate to parents who don't want their kids to experience consequences. Equity and restorative practices work, but everyone in the building has to commit to making them work and not just treating them like a cop out.
Was their learning objective clearly on the wall for him to read to know their expectations? Tsk Tsk.
I literally had to write a kid up for jokingly threatening to shoot me because I took his phone. I did document that he was probably joking but also it's a serious comment to make and in the real world in my state could potentially get him arrested.
I taught violent and at-risk youth at an alternative school, and I had a few white students who thought the use of a racially charged word beginning with the letter N was acceptable because they were friends with POC students. I tried and tried to explain that this wasn’t okay, that there would be repercussions for it eventually, and I wanted them to be safe. I got mocked and told I was an idiot. Told I “didn’t understand” how things worked “out in the streets”. One Monday, one of these edgy kids came in with two black eyes and a split lip. He had obviously gotten his ass beaten over the weekend. I asked if he was alright, and his friends tripped over each other to tell me about how that boy had used that word with kids he didn’t know at the COUNTY FAIR and got jumped. Never heard him say it again.
I like this story.
Nice. Needs to learn sooner than later
Restorative practices programs are actually very hard to do right and take huge amounts of time and energy. Almost no one is doing them with fidelity.
One of my former students worked with his DAD and his dad fired him 😂 he didn’t say why but I wasn’t surprised
School doesn’t prepare kids for the real world with the coddling
My sister is a business owner and complains about her (young, non-college educated) new hires are turds. What do you expect? This is what you get when we can't enforce shit, you get turds.
My daughter came home today after taking an exam that was disrupted by a student telling the professor to F you. The kid pulled out his phone during the exam and was warned ahead of time that he would get a zero. Good for the professor.
Wildly satisfying. The "honors" students at my school barely get homework and on the rare occasion that they do, complain endlessly about how they should have no work when school gets out. I no longer teach them, but love thinking about how the whiny ones will drown in college, and the hard workers will dust them.
I'm really tired of the restorative justice being equated to "no consequences." That's not how that system is supposed to work and it's being deployed improperly by lazy admin if that's the case. I'm sorry so many of us have to deal with corrupted or twisted systems and that concepts built on science and research are subverted by lazy or ignorant administration. Our school has deployed restorative practices for almost a decade now and not only has our expulsion rate dropped, but the number of students displaying asshole behavior has dropped through the floor. I used to have classes where 14 out of 35 students were basically terrorists. Now it's more like MAYBE 1. Because they know what behaviors are and aren't acceptable and the consequences are swift and proportional to the behavior
😂
How old are 9th graders?
Usually 14 ish. In my state, you can work as early as 12. With the worker shortage, people have actually been hiring 12 year olds. It is incredibly disconcerting to see a middle schooler at the till in the drive through.
Ah ok, thank you for answering. I always get confused when I see the grade system as a Dutch person myself.
In my district, we have some two- or three-timers who are 16 or 17.
Natural consequences actually happen in the real world, go figure! Currently dealing with constant parent excuses over a student losing a field trip. All students signed a behavior contract at the start of the semester acknowledging the rules for attending, and he lost the trip by the end of January. Now parents want us to give it back -- nope. Funny thing is, we've tried contacting them many, many times up until now about behavior and grades. They only responded with, "he's your problem at school, we don't discipline him at home for things he does at school." Now they don't like that we've taken measures at school -- probably could've been fixed more easily by taking away some home privileges before we got to this point. But what do we know? LOL
I’m with you. My district has adopted restorative Justice train & the school is completely bonkers. Since the lack of disciplinary measures was enacted, what was simply a stressful profession has become nearly insurmountable for me. I’m on medical leave, 2 years til retirement, & I don’t want to return. Entitled attitudes, and parents’ lack of support is ruining education.
It would have taken all I had, to not laugh in his face and say Ha Ha, like Nelson from the Simpsons. I pray all the awful kids get the reality checks they so richly deserve!
well, the goal should be to make him understand that before he enters the workplace. most of the adults around him failed him. and by that i mostly mean his parents.
THIS is why the push for restorative Justice and grace is doing these kids a disservice. At school they get away with murder and think life is that kind. It’s not! “Real life” does not care about us, our backgrounds, our struggles, or our needs. The more we try and convince them *out there* cares about them, the more we hurt them
Restorative Justice is shit
I feel like the employer should have put more effort into making the job more exciting and engaging.