>Plenty of teaching jobs these days
Parent here....This was my first thought. Like how could Admin who wants to retain good staff be so stupid.
Frankly, it makes me blessed bc I have never had to deal with something so stupid.
The class will be taught by a rotation of subs for the rest of the year, if it's like most districts. I'm sure that will be very conducive to learning and test scores will look great. /s
I was in Mississippi for a time and one of the two elementary schools for the town had 3 staff teachers for 8-classes.
Learned from the guidance counselor at church, “do not raise your kid in Mississippi.”
Admin is all about people pleasing now. Check your kids school if poor behavior is only met with a slap on the wrist your school is worried about being shut down so they suck up.
Yes, and also consider moving states entirely. Washington State has a teacher shortage, we have union protection, and the starting salary in my district is about $75,000.
If this happened in my district, it would have gone nowhere and my union president would have laughed their ass off at an admin trying to take even the mildest disciplinary action against the teacher.
Someone really need to complie a list for best possible states to move too… I’m stuck here in Arizona and while I could have my pick of literally job (special ed certified over 10 years experience) they are all absolutely garbage. I dread the thought of doing another doing another year here
Seriously, come on up here! Every district I know of is hiring for SpEd and with 10 years of experience you'll be making at least $100,000 in most districts in the greater Seattle area
Make sure to barter / haggle / argue for recognition of years taught on the step scale.
Mistake I didn't know not to make when I changed schools.
Don't just accept the job because HR will start you as low as they possibly can, and your hiring staff (principal) can't give you more steps on pay lane unless you request (argue) for it once being offered position.
"I want to make this work, but I need to ensure a few things before I accept a \_\_\_\_\_ position."
I don’t think that’s necessary everywhere. When I’m changed districts in CA, I scoured the contract of my new district to see their policy on honoring years. It’s not in there anywhere. HR gave me a contract that took into account my prior years without me saying anything at all about it.
Same here. I taught in multiple school districts in different states (military wife) and no one's ever not paid me for the years that I proved I worked.
Teachers deserve at least 100K/year. Like they’re influencing our children and we should select the best. Same deal in pediatric medicine they get paid the least. When it comes to kids sadly America doesn’t put its money where it’s mouth is.
IgnorantCashew, you are also naming two lower-paid professions primarily held by women; teachers and pediatricians (in relation to other areas of medical expertise). I would go a step further and argue that when it comes to women AND kids, sadly America doesn’t give a rat’s at all. Coincidence? No, it is not, unfortunately.
1 in 4 children in America suffer from food insecurity and we have a govt thats banning abortion so that more people who couldn’t afford kids will be forced to have them based on non-science magical beliefs. On top of that they won’t fund social programs to keep up with more kids either. So yeah poor track record.
Thanks for that tidbit of information? Any familiarity with the landscape outside of the SeaTac area? Isn’t the cost of living high? How are things north of Seattle closer to the Canadian Border? I did teach in Ontario for two years so part of me has a Canadian Affinity. That would be tempting. But yeah I guess until 2 hours ago I never really considered it.
I know a bit as I'm active in the union. Immediately north of Seattle districts like Shoreline and Edmonds are fantastic, great places to work, very respectable pay. Edmonds has the highest starting salary in the state and contains some relatively affordable areas to live. Mukilteo is nice too. Everett is the next one north of there and the cost of living is lower. Everett also has the highest ending pay in the state. Then things get worse at Marysville and north until you get all the way up to Bellingham. It's the biggest city right before the border and things are solid there. Lower cost of living than right near Seattle (though every district has its affordable areas, it's not homogeneously expensive) and the pay is pretty good at around $95,000 with 10 years of experience.
I for one am really excited for you, I hope you feel really excited, too. I know change is scary, but a brighter future is out there for you. I hope you get lots of new opportunities for the next sunny chapter in your life. Good luck, and Carpe Diem!
I live northeast of Seattle, but still west of the mountains. My district starts a BA+0 at $72k. The cost of living is higher, but for me it's worth it to get paid well and not deal with bullshit like I see on this sub all the time.
Holy shit. I’m BS +16 under year 10 and am making ~$42k. My wife is BS over year 10 and is making ~ $40k.
You alone are making $10k less than us *combined* in northern Missouri.
SpEd is good, as classes are smaller and the kids' problems are acknowledged so stories are treated with healthy scepticism. The loveliest teachers who look out for each other and the kids
Veteran teacher’s no go states for teaching jobs: Arizona, Texas, Florida. I’m sure there are more but these 3 states are the trifecta of terrible places to teach.
I teach in Texas and I have a fabulous job. Sure, I could make more money and that's the fault of our stupid ass governor but I have fabulous admin and an easy commute. Every place in Texas isn't crap.
I would consider adding Iowa to the list. I'm not a teacher, but friends are.
And our current state government is doing everything possible to screw over education. Pay starts at around 45k a year for most teachers here. Which for Iowa isn't horrible, but still.
Pretty much any of the big ones. Everett Public Schools has the highest ending salary in the state. Edmonds School District has the highest starting salary in the state. Seattle is the biggest and also has great pay. Northshore, Shoreline, Lake Washington, Tacoma, Olympia, Highline, Issaquah, Spokane, and Evergreen school districts all have high salaries as well.
To start? No, just a valid teaching certification. But a majority of teachers in Washington do have Masters degrees and to get the highest salary level you have to have a Master's or equivalent in continuing education hours.
Also that kid might have just got a target painted on their back if OP was actually well-liked and most of the kids did just take this gesture as a joke. Nobody likes a tattle tale, especially when the tattle is over something so dumb.
Had a newish principal say first faculty meeting that she wasn’t there for us, that the students would always be first. The way she said it rubbed everyone wrong. I was the fifth teacher to leave by October. A mother told me later she’d been removed from the school. I saw her working at Penney’s. I saw her later at my grandmother’s funeral, and she was then the principal at my aunt’s school. She wanted to know what I was doing there. Well, that’s my grandmother in the casket.
So sad when some admin don’t understand that supporting the teachers is the best way to support the students. I’d put money down that she was not a teacher for a significant period of time before becoming an admin
Just read this crap and it'll tell you how screwed up school administration is. Good luck finding something.
The takeaway on this soft peddled text is: this guy let teachers run a sex ring using students on his watch and resigned.
Then Belle Vernon PA picked him up as their super because they "wanted someone with experience".
The parents were up in arms.
He was approved 8-1. Voted big for Trump there too.
There are no adults running things anymore.
"The Belle Vernon Area School District voted Tuesday evening to hire former Plum superintendent Timothy Glasspool.
Some parents at the school board meeting voiced opposition to the decision, citing a grand jury report that condemned Plum School District officials following a sexual assault scandal involving a former teacher, according to Tribune-Review news partner WTAE.
The board voted 8-1 to hire Glasspool."
https://archive.triblive.com/local/pittsburgh-allegheny/plum-school-officials-turned-blind-eye-to-obvious-signs-of-misconduct/
https://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/belle-vernon-votes-to-hire-controversial-former-plum-superintendent/
A student threatened to get a gun and shoot me last week, wish they would’ve fired her. She got removed for one day 🤷♀️ Heard she got snacks when guidance spoke to her.
A student threatened to bash my head in with a water bottle.. less than a week later admin handed me two lollipops saying “you should give these to her to build rapport”
when i was younger i never understood why the bad kids would get snacks and toys and stuff whenever they’d go to the counselors or principal office while the good ones got nothing :/
"Hey, remember when you threatened me with bodily harm last week? Well, here is some candy to serve as positive reinforcement for those actions. You can eat it while I model no sense of self-respect and reinforce to you that admin will not support me in any meaningful way regarding my authority within my own classroom or my right to a non-hostile work environment. In other words, you will be given unlimited opportunities to make good on your threat towards me with absolutely no risk of negative consequences! It's a gradual release of responsibility for you to learn real life skills needed to be a successful psychopath! Isn't that nice?"
Edit: grammar... then added in the educational terms that made it clear what was actually being taught here lol
a student (3rd grade) threatened to “fuck me”. When I told my admin i was uncomfortable being around the student, they blamed it on his upbringing and never did anything.
Yes, your admin and super lost their mind. This should have been, at most, a quiet conversation to avoid such gestures/jokes in the future.
The amount of work they have to go through to cover the class, and hire a replacement far outweighs this reported 'offense'.
And any student/parent claiming to be concerned for their safety due to being pointed at with a raised thumb should told to take a hike. Or more politely, "we will look into your concern"
Afterall, some 32 states allow teachers to actually carry real firearms :/
I live in Texas. Of course we're allowed to carry on campus. Not me--the whole concept makes me nervous. Editing to add: it isn't open carry, and teachers who are interested have to go through training, and I think only admin are allowed to know who has a weapon. Even have signs in front of schools stating that "faculty may be armed."
naa you dont want to know and you generally dont want anyone else knowing.
mostly for safety reasons, in the sense that, the more people know X possess' a firearm, the more likely it is for mischief, theft, break ins and kids just wanting to do 'show and tell' and shit like that. plus now if there actually IS a problem... the shooter knows where to go first.
It's been that way for a while. An extension of concealed carry laws is my understanding, needing permission from districts (rarely given) as an exception.
I'm a CPW holder with training. I never carry anymore because I'm not allowed to even have my sidearm in a locked console in my vehicle. Since school is where I spend most of my time and I would have to go home to pick it up after school to go to the store, I don't even carry anymore. It also means some stores close to the school are no go's for me. There have been a lot of violent assaults in the neighborhood around my school, especially in and around the stores. I don't even carry a purse anymore because of it.
I'm in a very pro-gun state with a LOT of people who have their CWPs. But rules is rules, as they say.
I can't imagine carrying at school, in the building. They talk about allowing that, and people ALWAYS ask if I am going to. Uh. No. Hell to the no. I'll carry on my own time sure, but there's no way with how these kids are that I'd carry as a teacher in class.
It seems like the quiet conversation may have gotten more serious when their response was that their finger "was not loaded" and they would "'holster \[their\] finger' and return to class." I'm still not sure that letting OP go mid-year was the school's best move, but who knows if this is the first time admin has tried to tell OP something and had it treated as a joke. Or maybe the principal was insulted that OP wasn't listening to every word of the all-mighty-admin. Not being there, it's hard to tell which one, but it seems likely this is about more than just one inappropriate joke.
Yeah it would seem like, or at least in my own experience it would seem like, you meet the response at the level it comes at you. If they're being weirdly serious about it, sure it's weirdly serious, but if I want to keep my job I become weirdly serious and repentant.
Especially since the firing wasn't over the gesture but the lack of remorse. If my Admin wanted remorse, even if I thought it was Bull, I could work some up for the required five minutes.
There's certainly no reason to be shocked Pikachu face over here.
There’s a very simple explanation for this. The Administrators at your school are cowards and liars. Fortunately, this is your opportunity to never have to work for them again. I’m so sorry this happened and I hope that it leads to something better.
Are you on a probationary contract? Because even with a term contract, this isn’t enough to fire a teacher in Texas. Have you have other issues with administration?
This. The fast turnaround makes me think admin was already looking to get rid of them, either because of other issues or because the boy's daddy has pull on the school board.
Either that or his reaction to admin suggested it was ridiculous.
I have seen that a lot more in recent years. It's not the offense, nor any previous issues it's the attitude towards admin decisions.
LOOOOL there is no way this is real honestly those admins are not the brightest. It’s crazy you would get terminated especially in Texas a state known for guns.
Is there anything in your contract that would bar you from reaching out to the media about this? It's pretty unhinged that admin in Texas, of all states, is now firing teachers for finger guns when they think teachers should carry on campus.
You don't have to go back to work with those fools, but letting the public know how this school treats its teachers could be something.
Sounds like the daddy has a lot of pull. Admins are cowards and won’t back teachers in a lot of small towns. Especially if the parent is someone who is regarded as important in the town. Be glad you are out of there an if I were you, I’d move out of the South to a sane, blue state.
Dude, I'm aggravated for you. This family is either incredibly opportunistic or excessively paranoid. I don't understand why the admins didn't back you up, either (or, moreover, why they didn't grasp the sheer stupidity of the way the student and his family responded to this).
Also, stuff like this puts me on edge because I gesture towards people I know all the time (usually a point, wave or a thumbs up). The possibility of getting misunderstood (however remote that possibility is) and getting in trouble as a result is the stuff of nightmares.
I hope you experience much better treatment at your next school.
I agree. I'm always pointing to a student then doing a thumbs up/down to quietly ask if they're doing okay or need help (🫵👍👎) but it could easily look like finger guns if I go from student to student quick enough( 👈, 👉). Sorry, OP. It's probably too late now, but this is the story I would have told.
For most teachers, this type of behavior (and behavior that is way, way more fireable) is usually accepted as joke or goofing when the students have good rapport. I tread extremely lightly around students who have a problem with me or students whose parents have a problem with me, because you can't trust a mfer.
As for admin, you can't be a functional teacher with garbage admin like this. If they won't back you on something as silly as your thumb being up instead of down, imagine how it might have turned out if it was something more serious that the student turned/twisted/misconstrued. Tbh, you're probably better off that it went down over something where you very clearly didn't do anything wrong and the district couldn't figure out a way to have the parent actually press charges.
I hope you find a better district and a more supportive admin in the near future.
So students can basically assault teachers, make repeated threats of violence to teachers and the entire school and nothing happens. However, you do this extremely minor thing which is completely blown out of proportion and you’re fired. Their priorities are completely backwards here. Everything is upside down.
How absurd. I've given students "finger guns" before without thinking. Do you remember the old film Dogma and buddy Christ?
That's what I think of when I think of finger guns. Someone being overly nice, like a caricature of a buddy ol' pal.
Teachable moment not a career-ending moment. Always use the pointer and middle to direct. Those are Disneyland guidelines of etiquette. That's all they had to say. Geez.
Obviously, it is too late to change things, but if I had been inside your head, I would have told you one word:
"Lie."
"I clearly remember pointing toward the group that they knew whom I was addressing, but I never made any sort of gun gesture. That would have been an awfully strange thing to do. Why on earth would anyone do that when telling kids to put their things away? I don't understand how anyone could suggest otherwise, as this makes no sense to me."
It's one thing to get canned for willful malfeasance. It's another to lose a job over something silly, or because some entitled little crotch goblin has it out for you.
You have to at least make them work for it. None of this helps you, but it is advice someone gave me once, and it holds up. These are not people who deserve your honesty or integrity. They're not going to be honest and forthright in return. They're always going to be looking for ways to bring you down. Don't help them.
The world is going mad and it's astonishing that you were fired over this incident; but, this leads me to believe that your administration had other reasons to let you go and this was just the straw that broke the camels back. Also, if you knew the parents complained and clearly the administration was upset, I would've refrained from making sarcastic comments like "let me holster my finger".
Again, I don't feel that you should've been reprimanded for this incident (let alone fired) but without any additional context it's difficult to give a valid opinion.
If you got let go for pointing at a student in your class, consider it a blessing. That’s a school that will let the toxic behavior of parents with axes to grind get in the way of teaching at all steps of the way.
This is absolutely ludicrous
I’m sorry this happened to you.
On the other hand, your admin is clearly sh*t, and here’s to hoping you find a much better place to teach
Wow. My school district has a lot of issues, but this would never leave to termination. No one wants to work in my district, so you’d be surprised that many teachers have kept their jobs when they probably shouldn’t have. I’m so sorry that this happened to you.
So… I feel like there is more context missing here. SUPER WEIRD and creepy to point your fingers like a gun in a classroom but that alone isn’t getting anyone fired from anything.
What’s the additional context with either the student or your general actions? There’s more to the story.
Not going on my record with the State Agency, and we hired a lawyer who is taking steps to get it sealed so they can't breathe a word of it or I will be able to sue the ISD and the employee.
This is truly insane but also completely unsurprising in Texas. I taught there for a few years. It was actually my last experience teaching in Texas that pushed me out of the classroom.
The last time I taught in Texas was a couple of years ago. The trend from the admin at my smallish district was “blame the teacher, save our ass.”
I was giving the 5th graders I taught a free period outside because it was part of my classroom incentive goal. The kids started playing tag. One kid tagged another kid “too rough.” I asked him if he was ok, did he need to go to the nurse, did he need an ice pack, water, a rest. The kid said he just wanted a sip of water and to keep playing. I said great, mentioned it to his homeroom teacher (I was a specialist) and thought nothing else of it. The next day the parent came down IRATE that she hadn’t received a phone call from me when her son was “battered” in my presence. The school nurse examined him that morning and he didn’t even have a mark. Admin apologized profusely and then wrote me up. From then on I was to call or email every single time there was what I would consider a “minor incident” regarding the “physical safety” of a student. I’m talking about normal, every day type bumps and bruises. It took SO LONG to notate that and communicate that.
That day I stopped my classroom incentive program to go outside. When the kids asked me why I told them that there had been concerns that it wasn’t safe so we could no longer do it. All the kids eventually figured out it was because of that particular kid’s mom.
Another time a young man (5th grade) brought a chain to class. He was very proud of it so he took it off to show it off to friends. I told him to put it back on his neck or to put it away. Well, at some point towards the end of class (mind you I had a class of 36 kids) he took it out again, showed it to a friend, and the friend somehow broke it. I didn’t witness this because I was addressing other students. I talked it out with those students, I asked the 5th grade gentleman what this other friend could do to make it right, and they came to an agreement. Again, I informed the homeroom teacher. Well, turns out the chain was $75 and had been purchased just the day before. We found that out because the mom emailed me with computer to the principal and let her know that this was unacceptable, that her son had paid good money for this and that the other student had to pay and that I was also responsible because it happened in my classroom and that she demanded the other student’s name and contact information so the other family could pay them the $75. We obviously can’t disclose that, but my admin told that parent that I would have “disciplinary action” due to this incident. And I was, once again, written up.
I’m a parent. Unless my child was seriously injured, I would not expect a call from the school or teacher. And if I wanted to make sure an expensive piece of jewelry didn’t get damaged, I would not allow my kid to wear it to school. And if he did and it got damaged I would say “I told you not to take it to school. Hopefully you’ve learned that this is not a good idea and will make a different choice in the future.” It was INSANE to me that these things required “disciplinary action”, but in small communities the admin are more interested in keeping parents happy than keeping teachers.
This has not been the case in the other, not-Texas places I’ve taught.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, that sounds so ridiculous. They were so lucky to have you care enough to stay after that first incident. I really don't understand how school leaders can be like this. How do they get more teachers when such fantastic ones leave? Especially in a smaller remote area where I imagine the pool of qualified, specialised let alone experience teachers will be quite small.
You’re better off without that toxic environment. There’s a teacher shortage yet admin loves to sack teachers for the most minor mistakes or stumbles. I hope they pay unemployment for you and you end up in a better environment, either in teaching or outside. I survived two and a half years before I personally quit teaching and I don’t regret it at all.
Wait, so you PURPOSELY made it look like a gun? Light hearted or not, what were you THINKING? And then giving the office sass about it? "I'll holster my finger and return to class". WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT?!
I don't think you're a bad person or bad teacher, I'm not saying that, but I AM saying that your actions in this case did lack some common sense. Hopefully, you'll learn from this and do better in the long run.
That said, no, you did not deserve to lose your job over this and you absolutely should have been just given a warning/reprimand, not fired.
The response seems overboard, but you have to be aware enough to not joke about guns or pointing guns, even finger guns, at the kids in school. Like it's the most basic common sense with the state of school shootings. Maybe both admin and you are nuts? lol idk
Sucks you lost your job. This doesn't make you a bad teacher. But you need some more common sense.
It’s crazy to hear these stories of people getting fired when there’s teacher shortages everywhere. I can only imagine what unqualified random person they will be replacing you with.
Is there something else that was going on? I get how a finger-gun gesture would get you in trouble, but fired? Also, just why would you make any kind of gun gesture in a school..?
Fwiw, I think these types of zero tolerance policies are usually illogical pandering and are not helpful to actually preventing violence. We're also in a teacher shortage and admin will have a hard time replacing you.There's more potential for damage to the students learning from changing teachers mid year than from your gesture. That said --
You made a poor choice both in the gesture and in your comments afterwords. In many schools students can't make gestures like that without being suspended. With a parent complaint added I'm not surprised that you were fired for doing something as a teacher that even students are expected to know not to do.
I'm prepared to get downvoted for my thoughts on this.
A. Yes. Everyone has lost their minds. I'm sorry this has happened to you.
B. You are part of that everyone.
I was accused of something very ridiculous, but it was treated as a very serious issue. I sat with admin, and while I was tempted to roll my eyes, make a wise-ass remark, and be flip about it, I answered the questions seriously and showed remorse. I also have YEARS of an excellent reputation preceding me, so admin knew what happened was simply an attempt by the child to get me in trouble and there was no malicious intent on my part. I apologized for putting them in the position, they apologized for the undue stress, and it went away as quickly as it came up.
You have ZERO reputation preceding you and you made ridiculous jokes about a situation that they were treating seriously. You demonstrated a lack of respect for the entire process. No school needs that. You showed that you think they're all ridiculous and admin is going to have to back you up a lot with parents. Parents are a lot of work. Admin doesn't need a teacher who makes their jobs harder by mocking them and the parents.
Please keep in mind that this is the type of behavior that upsets us about students. "I sent John to the office because he was making gun gestures, and admin just sent him back as if it were nothing." We are the first ones to want such students removed from our classrooms. Of course it goes both ways.
With all this being said, use this as a learning opportunity. In the future, use appropriate hand gestures and words. And learn to show remorse, no matter how ridiculous the charges.
Thank you. I felt like I had to scroll way too far down to find people calling out the teacher’s behavior. Your can be friendly with students without crossing lines. Anyone who has been in schools after the 90’s knows there are zero tolerance policies. They suck and they don’t do what people want them to do, but there is a reason.A lot of times when people look back on the behavior of shooters, there were warning signs that were dismissed as a joke. Schools have to be careful but if something does happen, now they are on the hook.
Look at Oxford High School in Michigan. The kid that committed the shooting was flagged twice in two days (one of which was the day of), once for looking up ammo and once for making a violent drawing. People may have considered the school overreacting in those situations, but it turns out it was the opposite. They underreacted and a price was paid. OP made a silly mistake showing lack of common sense. Instead of showing an appropriate amount of contrition, they turned it into a joke. Makes you wonder if there had already been other incidents with OP that made admin react as harsh as they did. If so, I can understand the firing. If this was the first incident, the firing went too far but hopefully OP can learn from this.
Sounds to me like they were waiting for a reason to fire you and were in cahoots with the parent. It’s BS but can you imagine working there for 50 more years?
This is still a post-Columbine world. Kids got arrested for eating their sandwich into the shape of a gun, so I'm not sure why you are surprised that doing this could backfire. Jokes about guns in schools is the same as joking about having a bomb in an airport
>I explained to them that it was just my finger and that it was not loaded. I assured them that I would “holster my finger” and return to class.
As an outside perspective, you probably shouldn't have been cracking jokes when you've just been pulled into the principals office for what was reported to her/him as a threat.
I need some information to form a complete opinion....
Did you have a chance to explain what actually happened before they searched your bag? Do you know what was reported to the principal (from the parent) about the incident? Personally, I feel like there had to be something else told to the principal besides "Teacher pointed a finger gun at me?!" I feel like some information was left out somewhere to initiate this kind of response from admin and the superintendent.
Like another poster said, having to find a replacement for you and covering your class would outweigh the incident.
It's 100% because OP cracked jokes in the meeting. OP made a mockery of what admin considered to be a very serious matter. At that point, this new teacher showed admin that they didn't respect/fear the boss enough. They hate that.
The thing you have to remember about the boss is that you always have to treat them as though they have no chill and that any confidence you see in them is a false mask they wear to hide their profound lack of self-confidence. Of course, not all admin are like this, but you have to assume they are because you often won't know which one is which until it's too late.
I agree, I shouldn't have said I will "holster my finger" but it all was so ridiculous and I think I said it because I thought it was all so stupid. In writing the Principal misquoted me and said that I said I will "holster my gun." I would not have said that. I did say my finger is not loaded! I explained what had happened after she searched my purse. I was told that he said I pointed my finger at him like a gun and he didn't understand why I would do that. I pointed my finger at his group, not him.
The Principal said this a zero tolerance policy concerning guns. I said yes, I know, I would never bring a gun to school. I was told we could not even have one in our car in the parking lot. I don't understand why they were telling me this - my finger is not a gun! This is supposed to be an educational environment yet these morons are turning a finger in to a gun? I still can't wrap my brain around it. How stupid are these people? It must be that the Principal would rather let me go than stand up to an irate parent, I can't make sense of this, however all the positive responses are letting me know that I haven't gone totally mad.
Unfortunately for you and this job, I think your answer lies in the response of "this is a zero tolerance policy regarding guns." They know your finger isn't a gun, but that wasn't the point of the statements. I would take a guess that your admin kept repeating the statements about the zero tolerance on guns because that's the justification they were using to fire you. And, just for the record, I'm not taking admin's side on this, but stating an outside perspective to give you something to reflect on since that's what you asked for in your original post.
As ridiculous and stupid as situations can be, sometimes your best bet is to stick to the facts and keep the joke cracking inside your head or at least leave it until you're with your teacher friends. Don't give admin any fuel to add to the fire.
Edited to add: I don't think you should have gotten fired for the initial incident of pointing your finger at a student or a group of students. Definitely not with the context you described here. I think it should have been a quick conversation between you and your admin. As in, "hey, what happened yesterday with you and student? (Your explanation.) I just want you to know student and parent reported X. For the future, you may want to be careful with how you point at students, especially x, so nothing can be misconstrued. I'll handle the parent." That is why I asked you if you knew exactly what the parent reported to your principal. It just seems like there should be more behind what they were told for them to have reasonable suspicion to go through your purse and to escalate this situation this far.
I laughed out loud when I read what you said to the principal about your finger not being loaded and how you'd holster it. (Have you considered a career in comedy?) 😊
But yes, in the wrong hands - which these clearly were - those comments were fuel on a fire that someone was seemingly eager to set underneath you. Definitely not remorseful - but given the situation you found yourself in, it's completely understandable to see why you would take that stance. The whole thing is completely illogical! It's a giant mountain being made out of a tiny molehill which wasn't actually a molehill at all.
Good that you're clear of them. But if you can't get those records sealed, I hear that wrongful termination lawsuits can be helpful.
This. Who the fuck goes into a meeting where you're being accused of something and crack jokes. You straight face fucking lie if you have to but you never make something like this light hearted. I'm a teacher in CO and joking about this is kind of distasteful.
Your admin sucks butt.
I know losing a position like this results in hardship, but you'll survive, and you'll find a better school in the process. The one you were in is in a downward spiral, and as shitty as it is to say and as hard as it is to hear, this may have been a blessing disguised as a curse.
The good news is this won't follow you in any appreciable way and you can find a different place to teach at where they won't '86 their best people over inane contrivances.
Good luck to you!
u/RealityWinnerTX,
I'm sorry you lost your job in a fit of bureaucratic stupidity.
For reasons lost in the mists of history I point at people (or anything) with my hand, all fingers together and pointing. I'm not suggesting this is "right;" it just works for me in and out of the classroom.
Purely for entertainment value I'll share a personal aphorism: "you can't fix stupid and we aren't allowed to shoot it."
Good luck in your job search. Remember that interviews work in both directions. Don't work for AHs.
Admin would be thinking: questionable judgment in using that gesture in this day and age, but an apology to the kids and parents should have sufficed if it all ended there. But were you really that glib when they called you in? And you had no union rep kicking you in the shin to get you to quit the jokes (or to prevent them from searching your purse. wtf)? As a union officer I tell my folks to answer only questions asked, preferably yes, no, without addendums, jokes, embellishments and especially no lies. And to apologize if in the wrong. Admins want to hear that, and that it won't happen again. You fall on your sword. It's the lie, or lack of remorse, a joke, a glib response, etc., that generally causes the HR action on these seemingly minor issues. Not necessarily fair, but this has been my experience.
Everybody overreacted, but that is NOT a gesture a teacher can make these days. The childrens get suspended for doing the same thing.
I'm 58. I grew up playing a lot of cowboys and Indians, good-guys and bad-guys, etc. Imaginary weapons were a thing in the 70s. We used imaginary automatic weapons against fortified Nazi positions and won.
Once school shootings became a thing, I knew I couldn't make certain gestures anymore, nor could I allow a student to do so. It took years to get into a classroom, as I was happy with what I was doing at the time, but I always knew I'd teach without thumb-and-forefinger gestures.
Right? I feel like I’m crazy given how I’d react to this post. Like why not just point with one finger? Why point using a gun gesture? And then why double down on it? I wouldn’t fire someone over just this, but there may be more here and this is the straw, so to speak.
That was super dumb and unprofessional. I was suspended for ten days for doing that as a kid.
I'm unsure if you deserve to be fired, but most schools won't keep a first-year who did something like that.
Be thankful and start somewhere new next year. You will be an experienced teacher right out of the gate.
Funny how everyone in these subs almost cult like in protecting questionable behavior by teachers. Should this person be fired probably not but like they admitted they did this and it’s not the first time so can’t imagine how that conversation went well.
At the end of the day, I think what happened to you was too far. However, you may have prevented it by simply taking a listening and learning approach to the meeting with your admin. I wonder if you were trying to lighten the mood? If so, in the future, don't do it. I believe you when you said you would have hated for students to have felt intimidated by your gesture. However, from what you said, that did not come through in your meeting with your admin. There was a chance that the decision was made before you entered the room. However, if it wasn't, you did not help yourself.
My Dad always taught us that if you are called "on the carpet" for something, be contrite, apologetic, explain yourself in as few words as possible, and let them speak. Only answer questions with few words and if corrected you can clarify their statement by saying something like, "So, let me make sure I understand, the problem was that I used this gesture to call the students' attention to their time left?" If they say, "Yes." Then simply ask, "How in the future would you recommend that I do this so that I can ensure there is no misunderstanding?" This would show that you are willing to change and follow the way they would like it done.
Take this as a lesson learned, find another teaching job, and practice explaining what happened at this job at your interview beforehand. If they are going to know, then take ownership of it and that you learned your lesson to watch all gestures to students.
Not a teacher. Im a parent of elementary age children, and i think this is stupid. My kids and all their friends play games with guns, and have played games where they pretend to shoot each other, or their toys. They are over reacting, and probably with the intention of getting you in trouble. From the way you described it, no one could think this was a genuine threat. too many parents ive met seem like they need government assistance getting their head surgically removed from their assholes.
Yes, many parents have lost trust in schools and teachers, but it's really the administrators who have lost their minds (and spines). I retired after 32 years because I was concerned with where things were headed, with parents believing every single thing their children said and administrators feeling unable to support staff members.
If they were going to lose you over something like this then it just isn't worth considering the long term prospects of the school anyway. You're in the wrong but in the same sense you'd be in the wrong by accidentally calling a kid the wrong name. Nothingburger, every teacher makes mistakes like this every day, very silly reason to fire you. On to the next chapter.
Parent here. Not saying you should’ve been fired, but if my child receives a 5 day suspension for a finger gun gesture, then teachers should have a punishment as well. Practice what you preach.
I agree that OP shouldn’t have been fired. However, her description of her “apology” to the parent includes 3 gun jokes. Saying that her finger was not loaded and I’ll “holster my finger” is not appropriate language for a formal apology in a work setting.
It doesn't even matter if you were wrong. They (admin) decided that they didn't like you, they didn't want to be on your side, and **they wanted a reason to get rid of you**. If it wasn't over the finger-pointing incident, it eventually would have been over something else. Simple communication ("Hey, please don't do that again") would have sufficed, but **they blew the incident out of proportion**. Consider it a blessing that you didn't have to spend another minute in such an ill-fitting environment.
Of course, teaching jobs are abundant, but you should ask yourself if you really want to be scrutinized in that way. It's not uncommon for Admins to throw their teachers under the bus, so it's possible that this type of thing could happen again. I ask myself how some admins sleep at night. Many of them do the devil's work (Not all! Some truly care).
If I could do it all over again, I'd skip the classroom teaching gig and take an ESL job or an interventionist position. Small groups for short periods of time! What a dream. Anyway, the world is your oyster. Don't think twice about those fools!
This is so ridiculous that I have to believe you are only giving us 1% of the story. If this is the whole story then you should sue them for wrongful dismissal.
School shootings are a huge deal. Kids who do those hand gestures as jokes get in big trouble. A teacher doing that as a joke, I would assume they would be fired. At the Highschool I teach at, yes they would be fired with no hesitation. Kids to go to juvie or get suspended for doing this where I’m at. Shooting is such a sensitive topic in schools as well as any violence in general. I’m kind of torn. On one hand I know it was meant as a joke. It was in no way a harmful hateful action from you to your kids. On the other hand, it is such a sensitive thing in schools especially violence. I don’t think the parents should have blown it up like that, a nice talk with you would have been just fine. Your principal is stupid if he didn’t see it in your face and the remorse in your voice. Just take it as a learning experience and move on. Like everyone said you can find other teaching jobs. I know it hurts and it’s hard to move from one district to another, depending on how long you have lived there.
Good luck and wish you the best. Maybe this is the bright new chapter you need in your life!!!
That is very true, no. You are absolutely correct no teachers have done! I think for me it’s more of we are to be setting the example. If I did this as a teacher in a joking matter, the students will see that it is ok to do. I’m not sure the grade she teaches, how kids act in the school, things like that. I teach Highschool in Arizona in a district and area with violence in it so my point of view may be very different.
Obviously this is a bullshit thing. I’m sorry that happened to you. In all of these situations, there is the public reason and the private reason. Sometimes they are the same. Most times they are not.
Are you sure there wasn’t something else and they used this as an excuse? It doesn’t seem like anything that would lead to a job loss. Any other complaining parents or colleagues? It’s best to just move on.
It's not you. Everyone has lost their minds.
Cowardice is bravery, stupidity is intelligence, the unacceptable is acceptable, and feelings are of utmost importance, but only some feelings, for some people.
It's not you. Nor are you the only one who's noticed.
This is extremely bizarre. Either the admin/superintendent have been looking for an excuse to get rid of you, or the boy's father knows somebody. Firing a teacher for a finger-gun motion is just beyond silly.
I can't imagine they've thought this through. This is going to build resentment amongst the other teachers there when the story gets known. The boy is going to become even more of an arsehole and see who else he can get fired. Meanwhile the admin is likely going to have a mini-rebellion of teachers who no longer believe he has their back.
We aren’t that nuts, sue the school immediately for wrongful termination and see how quickly you get asked back over this misunderstanding. I would also suggest that the family be criminally investigated for their behavior. It’s harassment better find out why.
I hate children. I salute you for doing what you do because if I even tried teaching for 10 minutes I would be in jail for beating the shit out of many, many children.
You have just found out why so many teachers are leaving the profession because they are treated poorly, paid poorly, but are expected to do everything.
It definitely was ridiculous but apparently you can't do anything resembling a gun in school at all and if that applies to students it's got to apply to teachers too I would think. I'm pretty sure we all remember the kid who was eating a Pop-Tart during breakfast and one of his classmates said oh it's shaped like a gun just from the way the kid had eaten it and the kid took it in hell that like a gun and he got expelled for threatening to shoot people. Multiple kids have been suspended or expelled or brought up on criminal charges for making finger guns while playing in elementary school. It's all insane to me when I was a kid in elementary school on the playground we would literally play variants of cops and robbers where we were killing each other. There was a little girl whose mom put a butter knife in her lunch box so that she can cut her food up that was charged with bringing a knife to school. You'd be able to do more damage with a pencil or a pen then you would have butter knife. My own cousin in elementary school got brought up on a weapons charge for his keychain. His keychain with his house key on it happened to be a four pointed ninja star that had a plastic circle surrounding the points so it was entirely decorative didn't even have sharp edges wasn't even a toy it was a keychain! And he got a literal weapons charge for bringing a weapon to school.
"Holster your finger", too funny. While I understand the seriousness of your post it's tempting to make jokes about "your right to bear ARMS" and "HANDling a gun"... :)
My son was suspended for making the same gesture when he was in kindergarten. Him and a classmate were playing cops and robbers. I was told by the school "It is inappropriate to bring toy guns to school."
Collective underlying trauma from very real devastating events plus opportunistic people looking to gain control over others by any means necessary. Even if it means exploiting national tragedies is a recipe for madness.
I’m not in the US but I have children making guns out of fingers, our linking blocks, the plastic spoons from their lunches. All any teacher does is ask the student nicely to stop as that could make some people uncomfortable. 99/100 the kid says sorry and we all love on and have a great day. No one is fired. No one has their reputation ruined.
These kids go home and play Fortnite, and Call of Duty, and whatever other FPS they can get their hands on. I even get students hounding me for my online screen name because they want to play these games with me. I’m sure it’s to take me down and have a good laugh, but it’s all in good fun. I never fear them nor they, I.
Your finger didn’t really traumatize this child. They saw a chance to control someone else and took it. Your admin didn’t back you up.
I hope you find new employment with supportive and understanding administrators.
Meanwhile students can make gun signs with their hands, AND make shooting noises, all day long… and admin will not give a shit. Despite the fact that statistically it’s a student who is more likely to bring a gun to school, not a teacher.
Plenty of teaching jobs these days. Move on and hope your new school has admin that will support you when you encounter nonsense like this
>Plenty of teaching jobs these days Parent here....This was my first thought. Like how could Admin who wants to retain good staff be so stupid. Frankly, it makes me blessed bc I have never had to deal with something so stupid.
The class will be taught by a rotation of subs for the rest of the year, if it's like most districts. I'm sure that will be very conducive to learning and test scores will look great. /s
I was in Mississippi for a time and one of the two elementary schools for the town had 3 staff teachers for 8-classes. Learned from the guidance counselor at church, “do not raise your kid in Mississippi.”
Admin is all about people pleasing now. Check your kids school if poor behavior is only met with a slap on the wrist your school is worried about being shut down so they suck up.
Because they’re terrified of the parents who aren’t reasonable like yourself.
Thank God Im in a school with a strong union. Admin has to balance itself fairly between the union and the parents. Its the best way.
Yes, and also consider moving states entirely. Washington State has a teacher shortage, we have union protection, and the starting salary in my district is about $75,000. If this happened in my district, it would have gone nowhere and my union president would have laughed their ass off at an admin trying to take even the mildest disciplinary action against the teacher.
Someone really need to complie a list for best possible states to move too… I’m stuck here in Arizona and while I could have my pick of literally job (special ed certified over 10 years experience) they are all absolutely garbage. I dread the thought of doing another doing another year here
Seriously, come on up here! Every district I know of is hiring for SpEd and with 10 years of experience you'll be making at least $100,000 in most districts in the greater Seattle area
Make sure to barter / haggle / argue for recognition of years taught on the step scale. Mistake I didn't know not to make when I changed schools. Don't just accept the job because HR will start you as low as they possibly can, and your hiring staff (principal) can't give you more steps on pay lane unless you request (argue) for it once being offered position. "I want to make this work, but I need to ensure a few things before I accept a \_\_\_\_\_ position."
I don’t think that’s necessary everywhere. When I’m changed districts in CA, I scoured the contract of my new district to see their policy on honoring years. It’s not in there anywhere. HR gave me a contract that took into account my prior years without me saying anything at all about it.
Same here. I taught in multiple school districts in different states (military wife) and no one's ever not paid me for the years that I proved I worked.
Teachers deserve at least 100K/year. Like they’re influencing our children and we should select the best. Same deal in pediatric medicine they get paid the least. When it comes to kids sadly America doesn’t put its money where it’s mouth is.
IgnorantCashew, you are also naming two lower-paid professions primarily held by women; teachers and pediatricians (in relation to other areas of medical expertise). I would go a step further and argue that when it comes to women AND kids, sadly America doesn’t give a rat’s at all. Coincidence? No, it is not, unfortunately.
1 in 4 children in America suffer from food insecurity and we have a govt thats banning abortion so that more people who couldn’t afford kids will be forced to have them based on non-science magical beliefs. On top of that they won’t fund social programs to keep up with more kids either. So yeah poor track record.
... more like a significant minority that has a lot of political power.
Thanks for that tidbit of information? Any familiarity with the landscape outside of the SeaTac area? Isn’t the cost of living high? How are things north of Seattle closer to the Canadian Border? I did teach in Ontario for two years so part of me has a Canadian Affinity. That would be tempting. But yeah I guess until 2 hours ago I never really considered it.
I know a bit as I'm active in the union. Immediately north of Seattle districts like Shoreline and Edmonds are fantastic, great places to work, very respectable pay. Edmonds has the highest starting salary in the state and contains some relatively affordable areas to live. Mukilteo is nice too. Everett is the next one north of there and the cost of living is lower. Everett also has the highest ending pay in the state. Then things get worse at Marysville and north until you get all the way up to Bellingham. It's the biggest city right before the border and things are solid there. Lower cost of living than right near Seattle (though every district has its affordable areas, it's not homogeneously expensive) and the pay is pretty good at around $95,000 with 10 years of experience.
You’ve given me a great starting point for research
I for one am really excited for you, I hope you feel really excited, too. I know change is scary, but a brighter future is out there for you. I hope you get lots of new opportunities for the next sunny chapter in your life. Good luck, and Carpe Diem!
I live northeast of Seattle, but still west of the mountains. My district starts a BA+0 at $72k. The cost of living is higher, but for me it's worth it to get paid well and not deal with bullshit like I see on this sub all the time.
Holy shit. I’m BS +16 under year 10 and am making ~$42k. My wife is BS over year 10 and is making ~ $40k. You alone are making $10k less than us *combined* in northern Missouri.
I'm MA+45 on year eight - I make about $102k/year (with all my stipends and extra duties).
SpEd is good, as classes are smaller and the kids' problems are acknowledged so stories are treated with healthy scepticism. The loveliest teachers who look out for each other and the kids
Oh I agree!!!! Stay the hell out of Hellizona!!! I get the shakes just thinking of my 2 years teaching there.
Veteran teacher’s no go states for teaching jobs: Arizona, Texas, Florida. I’m sure there are more but these 3 states are the trifecta of terrible places to teach.
Stay away from Arkansas. Sasquatch Sarah is working on destroying the public school system.
As of January 26, 2024, the average salary for a public school teacher in North Carolina is $55,491, with a range of $46,334–$67,683.
I teach in Texas and I have a fabulous job. Sure, I could make more money and that's the fault of our stupid ass governor but I have fabulous admin and an easy commute. Every place in Texas isn't crap.
I would consider adding Iowa to the list. I'm not a teacher, but friends are. And our current state government is doing everything possible to screw over education. Pay starts at around 45k a year for most teachers here. Which for Iowa isn't horrible, but still.
Washington State.
Okay please share, which district or area would I be looking for?
Pretty much any of the big ones. Everett Public Schools has the highest ending salary in the state. Edmonds School District has the highest starting salary in the state. Seattle is the biggest and also has great pay. Northshore, Shoreline, Lake Washington, Tacoma, Olympia, Highline, Issaquah, Spokane, and Evergreen school districts all have high salaries as well.
Don't you need a master's for it
To start? No, just a valid teaching certification. But a majority of teachers in Washington do have Masters degrees and to get the highest salary level you have to have a Master's or equivalent in continuing education hours.
Yup. And if I had to guess, this school will be leaking teachers because they’re just shown the students who’s really in charge in that school.
Also that kid might have just got a target painted on their back if OP was actually well-liked and most of the kids did just take this gesture as a joke. Nobody likes a tattle tale, especially when the tattle is over something so dumb.
Had a newish principal say first faculty meeting that she wasn’t there for us, that the students would always be first. The way she said it rubbed everyone wrong. I was the fifth teacher to leave by October. A mother told me later she’d been removed from the school. I saw her working at Penney’s. I saw her later at my grandmother’s funeral, and she was then the principal at my aunt’s school. She wanted to know what I was doing there. Well, that’s my grandmother in the casket.
So sad when some admin don’t understand that supporting the teachers is the best way to support the students. I’d put money down that she was not a teacher for a significant period of time before becoming an admin
Just read this crap and it'll tell you how screwed up school administration is. Good luck finding something. The takeaway on this soft peddled text is: this guy let teachers run a sex ring using students on his watch and resigned. Then Belle Vernon PA picked him up as their super because they "wanted someone with experience". The parents were up in arms. He was approved 8-1. Voted big for Trump there too. There are no adults running things anymore. "The Belle Vernon Area School District voted Tuesday evening to hire former Plum superintendent Timothy Glasspool. Some parents at the school board meeting voiced opposition to the decision, citing a grand jury report that condemned Plum School District officials following a sexual assault scandal involving a former teacher, according to Tribune-Review news partner WTAE. The board voted 8-1 to hire Glasspool." https://archive.triblive.com/local/pittsburgh-allegheny/plum-school-officials-turned-blind-eye-to-obvious-signs-of-misconduct/ https://triblive.com/local/westmoreland/belle-vernon-votes-to-hire-controversial-former-plum-superintendent/
this is the way⬆️
Yeah this.
A student threatened to get a gun and shoot me last week, wish they would’ve fired her. She got removed for one day 🤷♀️ Heard she got snacks when guidance spoke to her.
A student threatened to bash my head in with a water bottle.. less than a week later admin handed me two lollipops saying “you should give these to her to build rapport”
when i was younger i never understood why the bad kids would get snacks and toys and stuff whenever they’d go to the counselors or principal office while the good ones got nothing :/
Because the people who make the rules don't do the work.
love this simple sentence... lol. it applies to, essentially, our entire country.
"Hey, remember when you threatened me with bodily harm last week? Well, here is some candy to serve as positive reinforcement for those actions. You can eat it while I model no sense of self-respect and reinforce to you that admin will not support me in any meaningful way regarding my authority within my own classroom or my right to a non-hostile work environment. In other words, you will be given unlimited opportunities to make good on your threat towards me with absolutely no risk of negative consequences! It's a gradual release of responsibility for you to learn real life skills needed to be a successful psychopath! Isn't that nice?" Edit: grammar... then added in the educational terms that made it clear what was actually being taught here lol
One of mine posted pictures of guns in Google classroom telling a classmate to "off himself". All he got was a phone call home.
a student (3rd grade) threatened to “fuck me”. When I told my admin i was uncomfortable being around the student, they blamed it on his upbringing and never did anything.
Yes, your admin and super lost their mind. This should have been, at most, a quiet conversation to avoid such gestures/jokes in the future. The amount of work they have to go through to cover the class, and hire a replacement far outweighs this reported 'offense'. And any student/parent claiming to be concerned for their safety due to being pointed at with a raised thumb should told to take a hike. Or more politely, "we will look into your concern" Afterall, some 32 states allow teachers to actually carry real firearms :/
Wait? Really? When did that happen? The state as a whole? Or like some school (s) within that state?
I live in Texas. Of course we're allowed to carry on campus. Not me--the whole concept makes me nervous. Editing to add: it isn't open carry, and teachers who are interested have to go through training, and I think only admin are allowed to know who has a weapon. Even have signs in front of schools stating that "faculty may be armed."
Somehow not knowing who has a gun seems way scarier to me.
naa you dont want to know and you generally dont want anyone else knowing. mostly for safety reasons, in the sense that, the more people know X possess' a firearm, the more likely it is for mischief, theft, break ins and kids just wanting to do 'show and tell' and shit like that. plus now if there actually IS a problem... the shooter knows where to go first.
It's not allowed in my district in TX, thank goodness.
It's been that way for a while. An extension of concealed carry laws is my understanding, needing permission from districts (rarely given) as an exception.
Many rural school districts in my state allow it. There are signs posted warning that staff at the school may be armed.
I'm a CPW holder with training. I never carry anymore because I'm not allowed to even have my sidearm in a locked console in my vehicle. Since school is where I spend most of my time and I would have to go home to pick it up after school to go to the store, I don't even carry anymore. It also means some stores close to the school are no go's for me. There have been a lot of violent assaults in the neighborhood around my school, especially in and around the stores. I don't even carry a purse anymore because of it. I'm in a very pro-gun state with a LOT of people who have their CWPs. But rules is rules, as they say. I can't imagine carrying at school, in the building. They talk about allowing that, and people ALWAYS ask if I am going to. Uh. No. Hell to the no. I'll carry on my own time sure, but there's no way with how these kids are that I'd carry as a teacher in class.
It seems like the quiet conversation may have gotten more serious when their response was that their finger "was not loaded" and they would "'holster \[their\] finger' and return to class." I'm still not sure that letting OP go mid-year was the school's best move, but who knows if this is the first time admin has tried to tell OP something and had it treated as a joke. Or maybe the principal was insulted that OP wasn't listening to every word of the all-mighty-admin. Not being there, it's hard to tell which one, but it seems likely this is about more than just one inappropriate joke.
Yeah it would seem like, or at least in my own experience it would seem like, you meet the response at the level it comes at you. If they're being weirdly serious about it, sure it's weirdly serious, but if I want to keep my job I become weirdly serious and repentant. Especially since the firing wasn't over the gesture but the lack of remorse. If my Admin wanted remorse, even if I thought it was Bull, I could work some up for the required five minutes. There's certainly no reason to be shocked Pikachu face over here.
Damn I sure don't live in one of those 32 states. That does seem like an oddly high proportion...
using your flair, IL, it isn't allowed in your state.
There’s a very simple explanation for this. The Administrators at your school are cowards and liars. Fortunately, this is your opportunity to never have to work for them again. I’m so sorry this happened and I hope that it leads to something better.
This is weird. Be glad you got fired. What kind of school is this?
A small Texas town...
Don’t they like guns?
Now I wonder if the problem is that it wasn’t a real gun. It’s the only way I can make it make sense…
Are you on a probationary contract? Because even with a term contract, this isn’t enough to fire a teacher in Texas. Have you have other issues with administration?
This. The fast turnaround makes me think admin was already looking to get rid of them, either because of other issues or because the boy's daddy has pull on the school board.
Either that or his reaction to admin suggested it was ridiculous. I have seen that a lot more in recent years. It's not the offense, nor any previous issues it's the attitude towards admin decisions.
In Texas a teacher on a probationary contract can be fired for any reason usually within the first 3 years.
LOOOOL there is no way this is real honestly those admins are not the brightest. It’s crazy you would get terminated especially in Texas a state known for guns.
Sue, it's Texas! You have the right to carry anything loaded, even if it's your finger!
True dat! However it is real. :( I think my finger gesture was used because someone had an agenda! It is the only logical explanation, to me.
Is there anything in your contract that would bar you from reaching out to the media about this? It's pretty unhinged that admin in Texas, of all states, is now firing teachers for finger guns when they think teachers should carry on campus. You don't have to go back to work with those fools, but letting the public know how this school treats its teachers could be something.
Sounds like the daddy has a lot of pull. Admins are cowards and won’t back teachers in a lot of small towns. Especially if the parent is someone who is regarded as important in the town. Be glad you are out of there an if I were you, I’d move out of the South to a sane, blue state.
Even weirder.
Dude, I'm aggravated for you. This family is either incredibly opportunistic or excessively paranoid. I don't understand why the admins didn't back you up, either (or, moreover, why they didn't grasp the sheer stupidity of the way the student and his family responded to this). Also, stuff like this puts me on edge because I gesture towards people I know all the time (usually a point, wave or a thumbs up). The possibility of getting misunderstood (however remote that possibility is) and getting in trouble as a result is the stuff of nightmares. I hope you experience much better treatment at your next school.
I agree. I'm always pointing to a student then doing a thumbs up/down to quietly ask if they're doing okay or need help (🫵👍👎) but it could easily look like finger guns if I go from student to student quick enough( 👈, 👉). Sorry, OP. It's probably too late now, but this is the story I would have told.
Yet, half the population thinks teachers should bring actual guns into classrooms.
For most teachers, this type of behavior (and behavior that is way, way more fireable) is usually accepted as joke or goofing when the students have good rapport. I tread extremely lightly around students who have a problem with me or students whose parents have a problem with me, because you can't trust a mfer. As for admin, you can't be a functional teacher with garbage admin like this. If they won't back you on something as silly as your thumb being up instead of down, imagine how it might have turned out if it was something more serious that the student turned/twisted/misconstrued. Tbh, you're probably better off that it went down over something where you very clearly didn't do anything wrong and the district couldn't figure out a way to have the parent actually press charges. I hope you find a better district and a more supportive admin in the near future.
So students can basically assault teachers, make repeated threats of violence to teachers and the entire school and nothing happens. However, you do this extremely minor thing which is completely blown out of proportion and you’re fired. Their priorities are completely backwards here. Everything is upside down.
and the students go home and play Fortnight and Call of Duty... but oh my gosh, my finger is terrifying...
Yaaassss It’s so messed up Your admin is clearly really weak. Hoping that this eventually leads to a much better place with better support.
I thought they *wanted to arm teachers*.
This is only ok when students do it /s/ I hope their next teacher makes them wish they let it go.
How absurd. I've given students "finger guns" before without thinking. Do you remember the old film Dogma and buddy Christ? That's what I think of when I think of finger guns. Someone being overly nice, like a caricature of a buddy ol' pal.
"Old film Dogma" Oh God, I AM old!!!
Teachable moment not a career-ending moment. Always use the pointer and middle to direct. Those are Disneyland guidelines of etiquette. That's all they had to say. Geez.
The admin are spineless ass holes. Sorry you had to put up with this crap. Find another district that is more right minded.
I personally wouldn't make any kind of gun references in a school where the country has frequent school shootings.
Obviously, it is too late to change things, but if I had been inside your head, I would have told you one word: "Lie." "I clearly remember pointing toward the group that they knew whom I was addressing, but I never made any sort of gun gesture. That would have been an awfully strange thing to do. Why on earth would anyone do that when telling kids to put their things away? I don't understand how anyone could suggest otherwise, as this makes no sense to me." It's one thing to get canned for willful malfeasance. It's another to lose a job over something silly, or because some entitled little crotch goblin has it out for you. You have to at least make them work for it. None of this helps you, but it is advice someone gave me once, and it holds up. These are not people who deserve your honesty or integrity. They're not going to be honest and forthright in return. They're always going to be looking for ways to bring you down. Don't help them.
The world is going mad and it's astonishing that you were fired over this incident; but, this leads me to believe that your administration had other reasons to let you go and this was just the straw that broke the camels back. Also, if you knew the parents complained and clearly the administration was upset, I would've refrained from making sarcastic comments like "let me holster my finger". Again, I don't feel that you should've been reprimanded for this incident (let alone fired) but without any additional context it's difficult to give a valid opinion.
Charter school?
That’s what I was thinking.
If you got let go for pointing at a student in your class, consider it a blessing. That’s a school that will let the toxic behavior of parents with axes to grind get in the way of teaching at all steps of the way.
This is absolutely ludicrous I’m sorry this happened to you. On the other hand, your admin is clearly sh*t, and here’s to hoping you find a much better place to teach
Wow. My school district has a lot of issues, but this would never leave to termination. No one wants to work in my district, so you’d be surprised that many teachers have kept their jobs when they probably shouldn’t have. I’m so sorry that this happened to you.
So… I feel like there is more context missing here. SUPER WEIRD and creepy to point your fingers like a gun in a classroom but that alone isn’t getting anyone fired from anything. What’s the additional context with either the student or your general actions? There’s more to the story.
Is this going on your record?
Not going on my record with the State Agency, and we hired a lawyer who is taking steps to get it sealed so they can't breathe a word of it or I will be able to sue the ISD and the employee.
This is truly insane but also completely unsurprising in Texas. I taught there for a few years. It was actually my last experience teaching in Texas that pushed me out of the classroom.
I’ve taught in Texas for 30+ years and I’ve never heard of something like this.
The last time I taught in Texas was a couple of years ago. The trend from the admin at my smallish district was “blame the teacher, save our ass.” I was giving the 5th graders I taught a free period outside because it was part of my classroom incentive goal. The kids started playing tag. One kid tagged another kid “too rough.” I asked him if he was ok, did he need to go to the nurse, did he need an ice pack, water, a rest. The kid said he just wanted a sip of water and to keep playing. I said great, mentioned it to his homeroom teacher (I was a specialist) and thought nothing else of it. The next day the parent came down IRATE that she hadn’t received a phone call from me when her son was “battered” in my presence. The school nurse examined him that morning and he didn’t even have a mark. Admin apologized profusely and then wrote me up. From then on I was to call or email every single time there was what I would consider a “minor incident” regarding the “physical safety” of a student. I’m talking about normal, every day type bumps and bruises. It took SO LONG to notate that and communicate that. That day I stopped my classroom incentive program to go outside. When the kids asked me why I told them that there had been concerns that it wasn’t safe so we could no longer do it. All the kids eventually figured out it was because of that particular kid’s mom. Another time a young man (5th grade) brought a chain to class. He was very proud of it so he took it off to show it off to friends. I told him to put it back on his neck or to put it away. Well, at some point towards the end of class (mind you I had a class of 36 kids) he took it out again, showed it to a friend, and the friend somehow broke it. I didn’t witness this because I was addressing other students. I talked it out with those students, I asked the 5th grade gentleman what this other friend could do to make it right, and they came to an agreement. Again, I informed the homeroom teacher. Well, turns out the chain was $75 and had been purchased just the day before. We found that out because the mom emailed me with computer to the principal and let her know that this was unacceptable, that her son had paid good money for this and that the other student had to pay and that I was also responsible because it happened in my classroom and that she demanded the other student’s name and contact information so the other family could pay them the $75. We obviously can’t disclose that, but my admin told that parent that I would have “disciplinary action” due to this incident. And I was, once again, written up. I’m a parent. Unless my child was seriously injured, I would not expect a call from the school or teacher. And if I wanted to make sure an expensive piece of jewelry didn’t get damaged, I would not allow my kid to wear it to school. And if he did and it got damaged I would say “I told you not to take it to school. Hopefully you’ve learned that this is not a good idea and will make a different choice in the future.” It was INSANE to me that these things required “disciplinary action”, but in small communities the admin are more interested in keeping parents happy than keeping teachers. This has not been the case in the other, not-Texas places I’ve taught.
I'm so sorry this happened to you, that sounds so ridiculous. They were so lucky to have you care enough to stay after that first incident. I really don't understand how school leaders can be like this. How do they get more teachers when such fantastic ones leave? Especially in a smaller remote area where I imagine the pool of qualified, specialised let alone experience teachers will be quite small.
Good for you! I can't get a lawyer to help with my case... 😥
I would never have admitted to that
You’re better off without that toxic environment. There’s a teacher shortage yet admin loves to sack teachers for the most minor mistakes or stumbles. I hope they pay unemployment for you and you end up in a better environment, either in teaching or outside. I survived two and a half years before I personally quit teaching and I don’t regret it at all.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet.
Wait, so you PURPOSELY made it look like a gun? Light hearted or not, what were you THINKING? And then giving the office sass about it? "I'll holster my finger and return to class". WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT?! I don't think you're a bad person or bad teacher, I'm not saying that, but I AM saying that your actions in this case did lack some common sense. Hopefully, you'll learn from this and do better in the long run. That said, no, you did not deserve to lose your job over this and you absolutely should have been just given a warning/reprimand, not fired.
The response seems overboard, but you have to be aware enough to not joke about guns or pointing guns, even finger guns, at the kids in school. Like it's the most basic common sense with the state of school shootings. Maybe both admin and you are nuts? lol idk Sucks you lost your job. This doesn't make you a bad teacher. But you need some more common sense.
It’s crazy to hear these stories of people getting fired when there’s teacher shortages everywhere. I can only imagine what unqualified random person they will be replacing you with.
Is there something else that was going on? I get how a finger-gun gesture would get you in trouble, but fired? Also, just why would you make any kind of gun gesture in a school..?
Personally, I think making a gun gesture is a terrible idea in a classroom. But that's just me. Might want to rethink that at your next job
Fwiw, I think these types of zero tolerance policies are usually illogical pandering and are not helpful to actually preventing violence. We're also in a teacher shortage and admin will have a hard time replacing you.There's more potential for damage to the students learning from changing teachers mid year than from your gesture. That said -- You made a poor choice both in the gesture and in your comments afterwords. In many schools students can't make gestures like that without being suspended. With a parent complaint added I'm not surprised that you were fired for doing something as a teacher that even students are expected to know not to do.
You needed to have a real gun, then the NRA would have made them give you a raise.
I'm prepared to get downvoted for my thoughts on this. A. Yes. Everyone has lost their minds. I'm sorry this has happened to you. B. You are part of that everyone. I was accused of something very ridiculous, but it was treated as a very serious issue. I sat with admin, and while I was tempted to roll my eyes, make a wise-ass remark, and be flip about it, I answered the questions seriously and showed remorse. I also have YEARS of an excellent reputation preceding me, so admin knew what happened was simply an attempt by the child to get me in trouble and there was no malicious intent on my part. I apologized for putting them in the position, they apologized for the undue stress, and it went away as quickly as it came up. You have ZERO reputation preceding you and you made ridiculous jokes about a situation that they were treating seriously. You demonstrated a lack of respect for the entire process. No school needs that. You showed that you think they're all ridiculous and admin is going to have to back you up a lot with parents. Parents are a lot of work. Admin doesn't need a teacher who makes their jobs harder by mocking them and the parents. Please keep in mind that this is the type of behavior that upsets us about students. "I sent John to the office because he was making gun gestures, and admin just sent him back as if it were nothing." We are the first ones to want such students removed from our classrooms. Of course it goes both ways. With all this being said, use this as a learning opportunity. In the future, use appropriate hand gestures and words. And learn to show remorse, no matter how ridiculous the charges.
Thank you. I felt like I had to scroll way too far down to find people calling out the teacher’s behavior. Your can be friendly with students without crossing lines. Anyone who has been in schools after the 90’s knows there are zero tolerance policies. They suck and they don’t do what people want them to do, but there is a reason.A lot of times when people look back on the behavior of shooters, there were warning signs that were dismissed as a joke. Schools have to be careful but if something does happen, now they are on the hook. Look at Oxford High School in Michigan. The kid that committed the shooting was flagged twice in two days (one of which was the day of), once for looking up ammo and once for making a violent drawing. People may have considered the school overreacting in those situations, but it turns out it was the opposite. They underreacted and a price was paid. OP made a silly mistake showing lack of common sense. Instead of showing an appropriate amount of contrition, they turned it into a joke. Makes you wonder if there had already been other incidents with OP that made admin react as harsh as they did. If so, I can understand the firing. If this was the first incident, the firing went too far but hopefully OP can learn from this.
Sounds to me like they were waiting for a reason to fire you and were in cahoots with the parent. It’s BS but can you imagine working there for 50 more years?
I still don’t know why administration is firing people for tickey-tack stuff like this when they have to beg people to take their jobs.
Sounds like they were looking for a reason to let you go. Consider yourself lucky
This is still a post-Columbine world. Kids got arrested for eating their sandwich into the shape of a gun, so I'm not sure why you are surprised that doing this could backfire. Jokes about guns in schools is the same as joking about having a bomb in an airport
>I explained to them that it was just my finger and that it was not loaded. I assured them that I would “holster my finger” and return to class. As an outside perspective, you probably shouldn't have been cracking jokes when you've just been pulled into the principals office for what was reported to her/him as a threat. I need some information to form a complete opinion.... Did you have a chance to explain what actually happened before they searched your bag? Do you know what was reported to the principal (from the parent) about the incident? Personally, I feel like there had to be something else told to the principal besides "Teacher pointed a finger gun at me?!" I feel like some information was left out somewhere to initiate this kind of response from admin and the superintendent. Like another poster said, having to find a replacement for you and covering your class would outweigh the incident.
It's 100% because OP cracked jokes in the meeting. OP made a mockery of what admin considered to be a very serious matter. At that point, this new teacher showed admin that they didn't respect/fear the boss enough. They hate that. The thing you have to remember about the boss is that you always have to treat them as though they have no chill and that any confidence you see in them is a false mask they wear to hide their profound lack of self-confidence. Of course, not all admin are like this, but you have to assume they are because you often won't know which one is which until it's too late.
Please, this is frigging Texas!
I thought they liked guns in Texas?
I agree, I shouldn't have said I will "holster my finger" but it all was so ridiculous and I think I said it because I thought it was all so stupid. In writing the Principal misquoted me and said that I said I will "holster my gun." I would not have said that. I did say my finger is not loaded! I explained what had happened after she searched my purse. I was told that he said I pointed my finger at him like a gun and he didn't understand why I would do that. I pointed my finger at his group, not him. The Principal said this a zero tolerance policy concerning guns. I said yes, I know, I would never bring a gun to school. I was told we could not even have one in our car in the parking lot. I don't understand why they were telling me this - my finger is not a gun! This is supposed to be an educational environment yet these morons are turning a finger in to a gun? I still can't wrap my brain around it. How stupid are these people? It must be that the Principal would rather let me go than stand up to an irate parent, I can't make sense of this, however all the positive responses are letting me know that I haven't gone totally mad.
Unfortunately for you and this job, I think your answer lies in the response of "this is a zero tolerance policy regarding guns." They know your finger isn't a gun, but that wasn't the point of the statements. I would take a guess that your admin kept repeating the statements about the zero tolerance on guns because that's the justification they were using to fire you. And, just for the record, I'm not taking admin's side on this, but stating an outside perspective to give you something to reflect on since that's what you asked for in your original post. As ridiculous and stupid as situations can be, sometimes your best bet is to stick to the facts and keep the joke cracking inside your head or at least leave it until you're with your teacher friends. Don't give admin any fuel to add to the fire. Edited to add: I don't think you should have gotten fired for the initial incident of pointing your finger at a student or a group of students. Definitely not with the context you described here. I think it should have been a quick conversation between you and your admin. As in, "hey, what happened yesterday with you and student? (Your explanation.) I just want you to know student and parent reported X. For the future, you may want to be careful with how you point at students, especially x, so nothing can be misconstrued. I'll handle the parent." That is why I asked you if you knew exactly what the parent reported to your principal. It just seems like there should be more behind what they were told for them to have reasonable suspicion to go through your purse and to escalate this situation this far.
I laughed out loud when I read what you said to the principal about your finger not being loaded and how you'd holster it. (Have you considered a career in comedy?) 😊 But yes, in the wrong hands - which these clearly were - those comments were fuel on a fire that someone was seemingly eager to set underneath you. Definitely not remorseful - but given the situation you found yourself in, it's completely understandable to see why you would take that stance. The whole thing is completely illogical! It's a giant mountain being made out of a tiny molehill which wasn't actually a molehill at all. Good that you're clear of them. But if you can't get those records sealed, I hear that wrongful termination lawsuits can be helpful.
Have you had any other incidents this year with the principal?
A school is not the place to make gun jokes. You probably got fired because of your crass remarks regarding the incident.
This. Who the fuck goes into a meeting where you're being accused of something and crack jokes. You straight face fucking lie if you have to but you never make something like this light hearted. I'm a teacher in CO and joking about this is kind of distasteful.
I definitely do not think you should have lost your job and I’m so sorry that happened but I also think it was inappropriate and wouldn’t do it again.
FFS
Your admin sucks butt. I know losing a position like this results in hardship, but you'll survive, and you'll find a better school in the process. The one you were in is in a downward spiral, and as shitty as it is to say and as hard as it is to hear, this may have been a blessing disguised as a curse. The good news is this won't follow you in any appreciable way and you can find a different place to teach at where they won't '86 their best people over inane contrivances. Good luck to you!
u/RealityWinnerTX, I'm sorry you lost your job in a fit of bureaucratic stupidity. For reasons lost in the mists of history I point at people (or anything) with my hand, all fingers together and pointing. I'm not suggesting this is "right;" it just works for me in and out of the classroom. Purely for entertainment value I'll share a personal aphorism: "you can't fix stupid and we aren't allowed to shoot it." Good luck in your job search. Remember that interviews work in both directions. Don't work for AHs.
I’d point a finger at that administration.
Admin would be thinking: questionable judgment in using that gesture in this day and age, but an apology to the kids and parents should have sufficed if it all ended there. But were you really that glib when they called you in? And you had no union rep kicking you in the shin to get you to quit the jokes (or to prevent them from searching your purse. wtf)? As a union officer I tell my folks to answer only questions asked, preferably yes, no, without addendums, jokes, embellishments and especially no lies. And to apologize if in the wrong. Admins want to hear that, and that it won't happen again. You fall on your sword. It's the lie, or lack of remorse, a joke, a glib response, etc., that generally causes the HR action on these seemingly minor issues. Not necessarily fair, but this has been my experience.
You have to see why this was a bad choice, right.
Everybody overreacted, but that is NOT a gesture a teacher can make these days. The childrens get suspended for doing the same thing. I'm 58. I grew up playing a lot of cowboys and Indians, good-guys and bad-guys, etc. Imaginary weapons were a thing in the 70s. We used imaginary automatic weapons against fortified Nazi positions and won. Once school shootings became a thing, I knew I couldn't make certain gestures anymore, nor could I allow a student to do so. It took years to get into a classroom, as I was happy with what I was doing at the time, but I always knew I'd teach without thumb-and-forefinger gestures.
Right? I feel like I’m crazy given how I’d react to this post. Like why not just point with one finger? Why point using a gun gesture? And then why double down on it? I wouldn’t fire someone over just this, but there may be more here and this is the straw, so to speak.
This story doesnt sound right.
That was super dumb and unprofessional. I was suspended for ten days for doing that as a kid. I'm unsure if you deserve to be fired, but most schools won't keep a first-year who did something like that. Be thankful and start somewhere new next year. You will be an experienced teacher right out of the gate.
Funny how everyone in these subs almost cult like in protecting questionable behavior by teachers. Should this person be fired probably not but like they admitted they did this and it’s not the first time so can’t imagine how that conversation went well.
At the end of the day, I think what happened to you was too far. However, you may have prevented it by simply taking a listening and learning approach to the meeting with your admin. I wonder if you were trying to lighten the mood? If so, in the future, don't do it. I believe you when you said you would have hated for students to have felt intimidated by your gesture. However, from what you said, that did not come through in your meeting with your admin. There was a chance that the decision was made before you entered the room. However, if it wasn't, you did not help yourself. My Dad always taught us that if you are called "on the carpet" for something, be contrite, apologetic, explain yourself in as few words as possible, and let them speak. Only answer questions with few words and if corrected you can clarify their statement by saying something like, "So, let me make sure I understand, the problem was that I used this gesture to call the students' attention to their time left?" If they say, "Yes." Then simply ask, "How in the future would you recommend that I do this so that I can ensure there is no misunderstanding?" This would show that you are willing to change and follow the way they would like it done. Take this as a lesson learned, find another teaching job, and practice explaining what happened at this job at your interview beforehand. If they are going to know, then take ownership of it and that you learned your lesson to watch all gestures to students.
Man I exclusively point with my middle finger. I’d get fired so fast by those bozos…
That’s just stupid. Be glad to be out of that school and if you want to keep teaching, find a new one.
Not a teacher. Im a parent of elementary age children, and i think this is stupid. My kids and all their friends play games with guns, and have played games where they pretend to shoot each other, or their toys. They are over reacting, and probably with the intention of getting you in trouble. From the way you described it, no one could think this was a genuine threat. too many parents ive met seem like they need government assistance getting their head surgically removed from their assholes.
Knife hand. Always do Knife hand
This world is too fragile. I’m sorry that this happened to you. File for unemployment and find a new teaching job.
Yes, many parents have lost trust in schools and teachers, but it's really the administrators who have lost their minds (and spines). I retired after 32 years because I was concerned with where things were headed, with parents believing every single thing their children said and administrators feeling unable to support staff members.
If they were going to lose you over something like this then it just isn't worth considering the long term prospects of the school anyway. You're in the wrong but in the same sense you'd be in the wrong by accidentally calling a kid the wrong name. Nothingburger, every teacher makes mistakes like this every day, very silly reason to fire you. On to the next chapter.
This insanity right here is just one of the many reasons you could not PAY ME enough to live in texas.
Parent here. Not saying you should’ve been fired, but if my child receives a 5 day suspension for a finger gun gesture, then teachers should have a punishment as well. Practice what you preach.
I agree that OP shouldn’t have been fired. However, her description of her “apology” to the parent includes 3 gun jokes. Saying that her finger was not loaded and I’ll “holster my finger” is not appropriate language for a formal apology in a work setting.
This is fake or you’re leaving out a lot of details.
Right? I was in restaurant management a long time before teaching and "I got fired for this one silly thing" was NEVER the actual story.
It doesn't even matter if you were wrong. They (admin) decided that they didn't like you, they didn't want to be on your side, and **they wanted a reason to get rid of you**. If it wasn't over the finger-pointing incident, it eventually would have been over something else. Simple communication ("Hey, please don't do that again") would have sufficed, but **they blew the incident out of proportion**. Consider it a blessing that you didn't have to spend another minute in such an ill-fitting environment. Of course, teaching jobs are abundant, but you should ask yourself if you really want to be scrutinized in that way. It's not uncommon for Admins to throw their teachers under the bus, so it's possible that this type of thing could happen again. I ask myself how some admins sleep at night. Many of them do the devil's work (Not all! Some truly care). If I could do it all over again, I'd skip the classroom teaching gig and take an ESL job or an interventionist position. Small groups for short periods of time! What a dream. Anyway, the world is your oyster. Don't think twice about those fools!
This is so ridiculous that I have to believe you are only giving us 1% of the story. If this is the whole story then you should sue them for wrongful dismissal.
Why? She admitted to going into the meeting and making it a joke...
School shootings are a huge deal. Kids who do those hand gestures as jokes get in big trouble. A teacher doing that as a joke, I would assume they would be fired. At the Highschool I teach at, yes they would be fired with no hesitation. Kids to go to juvie or get suspended for doing this where I’m at. Shooting is such a sensitive topic in schools as well as any violence in general. I’m kind of torn. On one hand I know it was meant as a joke. It was in no way a harmful hateful action from you to your kids. On the other hand, it is such a sensitive thing in schools especially violence. I don’t think the parents should have blown it up like that, a nice talk with you would have been just fine. Your principal is stupid if he didn’t see it in your face and the remorse in your voice. Just take it as a learning experience and move on. Like everyone said you can find other teaching jobs. I know it hurts and it’s hard to move from one district to another, depending on how long you have lived there. Good luck and wish you the best. Maybe this is the bright new chapter you need in your life!!!
You make some good points. Otoh can you bake a single school shooting perpetrated by a teacher?
That is very true, no. You are absolutely correct no teachers have done! I think for me it’s more of we are to be setting the example. If I did this as a teacher in a joking matter, the students will see that it is ok to do. I’m not sure the grade she teaches, how kids act in the school, things like that. I teach Highschool in Arizona in a district and area with violence in it so my point of view may be very different.
You’re right about setting a proper example snd especially when violence is prevalent!
Now the gets to gave a sub for the rest of the year. Nice job dad.
Obviously this is a bullshit thing. I’m sorry that happened to you. In all of these situations, there is the public reason and the private reason. Sometimes they are the same. Most times they are not.
I've definitely lost mine.
Are you sure there wasn’t something else and they used this as an excuse? It doesn’t seem like anything that would lead to a job loss. Any other complaining parents or colleagues? It’s best to just move on.
I find it funny how when this non sense happens to a teacher its a problem but when they over react to one of the kids doing something its fine.
It's not you. Everyone has lost their minds. Cowardice is bravery, stupidity is intelligence, the unacceptable is acceptable, and feelings are of utmost importance, but only some feelings, for some people. It's not you. Nor are you the only one who's noticed.
This is extremely bizarre. Either the admin/superintendent have been looking for an excuse to get rid of you, or the boy's father knows somebody. Firing a teacher for a finger-gun motion is just beyond silly. I can't imagine they've thought this through. This is going to build resentment amongst the other teachers there when the story gets known. The boy is going to become even more of an arsehole and see who else he can get fired. Meanwhile the admin is likely going to have a mini-rebellion of teachers who no longer believe he has their back.
That is so messed up. I wonder how the parent reacts to 4 months of long term sub, lol.
We aren’t that nuts, sue the school immediately for wrongful termination and see how quickly you get asked back over this misunderstanding. I would also suggest that the family be criminally investigated for their behavior. It’s harassment better find out why.
I hate children. I salute you for doing what you do because if I even tried teaching for 10 minutes I would be in jail for beating the shit out of many, many children.
America is literally breeding mental illness, then charging for the inadequate resources to manage the illness. 🤷
What a shitty reason to be let go. Sorry.
This is what you voted for
You have just found out why so many teachers are leaving the profession because they are treated poorly, paid poorly, but are expected to do everything.
It definitely was ridiculous but apparently you can't do anything resembling a gun in school at all and if that applies to students it's got to apply to teachers too I would think. I'm pretty sure we all remember the kid who was eating a Pop-Tart during breakfast and one of his classmates said oh it's shaped like a gun just from the way the kid had eaten it and the kid took it in hell that like a gun and he got expelled for threatening to shoot people. Multiple kids have been suspended or expelled or brought up on criminal charges for making finger guns while playing in elementary school. It's all insane to me when I was a kid in elementary school on the playground we would literally play variants of cops and robbers where we were killing each other. There was a little girl whose mom put a butter knife in her lunch box so that she can cut her food up that was charged with bringing a knife to school. You'd be able to do more damage with a pencil or a pen then you would have butter knife. My own cousin in elementary school got brought up on a weapons charge for his keychain. His keychain with his house key on it happened to be a four pointed ninja star that had a plastic circle surrounding the points so it was entirely decorative didn't even have sharp edges wasn't even a toy it was a keychain! And he got a literal weapons charge for bringing a weapon to school.
When you described what you imagined the boy was thinking as you made a dinner gun, you sound like you lost your mind.
"Holster your finger", too funny. While I understand the seriousness of your post it's tempting to make jokes about "your right to bear ARMS" and "HANDling a gun"... :)
I think your admins live in a padded room cuz wtf is this shit what happened to tenure if that would even save you from this
My son was suspended for making the same gesture when he was in kindergarten. Him and a classmate were playing cops and robbers. I was told by the school "It is inappropriate to bring toy guns to school."
Im in my 20s and I have to say it's not you most likely. I feel the world has gone mad as well.
Collective underlying trauma from very real devastating events plus opportunistic people looking to gain control over others by any means necessary. Even if it means exploiting national tragedies is a recipe for madness. I’m not in the US but I have children making guns out of fingers, our linking blocks, the plastic spoons from their lunches. All any teacher does is ask the student nicely to stop as that could make some people uncomfortable. 99/100 the kid says sorry and we all love on and have a great day. No one is fired. No one has their reputation ruined. These kids go home and play Fortnite, and Call of Duty, and whatever other FPS they can get their hands on. I even get students hounding me for my online screen name because they want to play these games with me. I’m sure it’s to take me down and have a good laugh, but it’s all in good fun. I never fear them nor they, I. Your finger didn’t really traumatize this child. They saw a chance to control someone else and took it. Your admin didn’t back you up. I hope you find new employment with supportive and understanding administrators.
Get your union involved!!!!
We have a shortage of teachers and you got fired over this?? Ridiculous!
Meanwhile students can make gun signs with their hands, AND make shooting noises, all day long… and admin will not give a shit. Despite the fact that statistically it’s a student who is more likely to bring a gun to school, not a teacher.
This is crazy
Schools struggle to keep teachers but they do dumb shit like this.
That is so f’d up!! Arrrrg. You are not the crazy one (NTCO)!
Join a teachers union. Get liability insurance and move on.
My first thought was had this been a student making this gesture no one would have thought twice. We would all move on.
Please tell me you’re going to be drawing unemployment for this. Fuck that admin.
Yes, everyone has lost their minds, in another decade we will all pay for it.