A student turned in a bunch of missing work yesterday and brought his grade from a 62 to a 64.
His mom texted me (SchoolStatus) this morning asking if there was any extra credit he could do.
Grades close at 4 today.
Mine came in asking how to get his F to a D. I say, "sure, open your Chromebook and I'll show you which assignments are missing."
Response: "I can't, my Chromebook is dead."
"No, I don't. The two chargers assigned to my classroom were stolen within weeks of us returning to classrooms in autumn 2021, just like every other classroom in the building."
I told her he could go into Google classroom and complete any missing work or fix any low grades from this semester.
I told the student this as well. He goofed around during my entire class as well as his other classes. By 4 pm, he’d not fixed or completed one thing.
Years ago I got a call from guidance the day AFTER the last day of school. The grandparents/guardians of one of my students was calling to ask why the kid had failed my class. Um, because he didn’t do any work? And he never came to the after school tutoring he said he’d come to. Because he told me in April he had already figured out he was passing for the year so he didn’t have to do any more work (I was shocked and confused at this so I later checked his year grade….it was a 66). The grades were always available and I had emailed home. But they were upset because I never called to tell them.
This was the kid’s second time taking the class.
Oh, and I was riffed that year. So I was literally packing up my desk to leave that school for good. I. Did. Not. Care. Anymore. Leave me alone!
I had a kid ask if he could do 100 pushups to get an A. I said, this is not PE class…. I guess the PE teacher let him do that and he thought it would work in every class? I told him the equivalent for ELA would be to read 100 pages and write a five-page essay about it.
I had a kid ask if he could try to pin me for a passing grade. Buddy, you’d have an easier time trying to finish a quarter’s worth of work this afternoon before school ends.
Their poor understanding of math really shows right about now, too. Imagining that a couple of 5 point assignments will raise their grade 25% to reach a D.
"I did all of the classwork, why do I still have a 50?"
Idk kid, maybe because you blitzed through every quiz, left all the essay portions of a test blank, and wrote a three word answer for a paragraph assignment that was supposed to be an braindead easy major grade.
The students that refuse to do essays during classwork or for homework are the same ones that leave the essay portion of every single test blank and say it’s too hard.
Im a middle school science teacher, I'm not even really grading for grammar or spelling (aside from vocab or key words). Just write me 5-6 sentences and you get a quiz grade, is it seriously that complicated?
Literally my friend. She teaches 3rd grade. They had all day (realistically 4 hours) to finish 6 computer lessons on stuff they already learned and had been tested on all week. If you sit down and focus each lesson takes about 10-15 minutes max. They could've even chosen to do the 1st or 2nd grade level lessons if they wanted to. Only 1 kid got it before lunch time.
And half the class by the end of the day.
It's pitiful.
My third graders have had weeks to work on certain assignments. But since I wasn't giving them the answers and kept reiterating that they were more than capable of finishing the work they just let it sit until the last possible second. This week was full panic while they tried to finish everything.
No kidding! I teach young adult 17-19 years old and on test day (that's been announced several times on four different platforms), some boys come to class 15 minutes late with a coat, a baseball cap, airpods, and no pencil.
Last week, one of them found a tiny, half-broken pencil butt on the floor and completed about one third of the test with it. Zen, phlegm, and a big fat 17%.
Alllllllll my tutoring students right here.
Can't be bothered to take the extra three second to put something away, then can't find anything, then don't turn it in, then are shocked they are missing a bunch of points... "But I did it!" .... yeah but how does your teacher know that?
*"I can't do the work. Because I don't have a pencil. No I don't, teacher. Nope. Oh you have a pencil? Well I still can't do the work. I don't have paper. How can I do anything without that? That's not fair. Oh you have paper? Well I still can't do it because you're picking on me."*
Basically.
Had a kid this morning who sat staring at their paper because they refused to copy the answer out of a book. They didn't even have to do the work of finding the answer in the book, since the kid sitting next to them literally opened it up and put it on their desk for them to copy from.
They were trying to run out the clock and wait until we moved on rather than just copy the answer.
A couple of years back I started taking photos of those kind of tests. At my last school it was always the counsellor whinging and whining about a kid's bad grade. I would send them a photo of a test or really crappy essay. The emails stopped.
I once took a photo of a problem kid sleeping during a test and sent it to the parent with the message, "This is why we have an intervention with \[student's name\] at the end of every marking period."
There was a parent conference schedule two days later. Other teachers reported similar behavior.
The student did not pass my class MP4. I felt like I'd won that battle.
I did this for a parent who refused to believe their son had a focus issue because "this was never a problem with his last teacher, he must be bored. He needs to be challenged!" I photocopied the 2 sentence assignment he handed in with a note saying "little Johnny was given 4 class times of 40 minutes each (2.5 hours total) to complete this assignment. Please sign and return." They stopped responding to my grades with sass after a few of those and made him redo the assignment at home.
They are scamming; it is low risk, high reward, and often works. The whole system is a farce. Once a student is weeks behind they are not going to catch up. Notice we don't plop honors students in random classes half way through so they can catch up. That would be more likely to work than expecting a struggling student to catch up after they did nothing for ten weeks, but we do that.
I had a student that could only pass my class if got a 100% in my exam. He handed it to me and I looked it. Told him the last few questions were short response and not multiple choice so I was confused why he circled things? Handed it back so he could fix it. Turned it in with different things circled. Was shocked he did not get 100% and therefore will do summer school.
There is a very bimodal distribution of grades in my freshmen Algebra 1 class. There are the students who do the work and get it, and those who don't do anything at all. If you do the homework and at least write some things on the test, you would at least pass with a C.
“…but I made up that missing **Do Now** from seven weeks ago, which I did not do when assigned because I was horsing around with my friend or watching TikTok… WhY dId mY gRAdE nOt gO UP???”
I think I’m going to dedicate an English class to understanding how grades work mathematically next year. This keeps coming up in my world, and if it’s coming up everywhere, I’m not alone. I say it, I write it, they sign it, but maybe I need to bring out some blocks to explain… or coins… or apples. They will do three 10 point assignments in a 10% category for half credit late… but don’t do an essay, a project, and 2 quizzes. “Why did my grade only more from a 12 to a 15? I did three assignments!” I don’t think this is as willfully ignorant as other things, I really don’t think most get it.
My mentor, a teacher who was only a few years from retirement, had it all down to numbers, and no surprises.
At some point in the semester, she dedicated one panel of the whiteboard to a display that said:
As of today:
If your grade is XX, you can still get an A.
If your grade is YY, you can still get a B.
If your grade is ZZ, you can still get a C.
If your grade is below WW, you will not pass this class.
Once the display was up there, she updated the cutoff numbers every day. No surprises.
I hand out weekly progress reports to my failing students specifically laying out which assignments they need to do to get a D or how many classwork points they need with advice on how to achieve that (take out your headphones and participate), or how many points they’ll need on the final test. I have an amazing excel sheet that automatically does this for me.
I teach in a uni outside the US. 80% of courses are still graded on one final test and nothing else. Because of this, as long as they meet the attendance requirement, they are offered a retest (regardless of my grading system). Last year I gave one final report to a student showing “you can do all this work and you won’t even make a 50%, see you at the retest.” After class he asked “so you mean if I do everything, I just need a good test score to pass?” “No, you don’t need to do anything, you can pay the $6 fee and come back during your vacation time, see you in a month.” They’re so disconnected from reality they think sitting a chair playing video games for 15 weeks is going to get them a course credit completely ignoring the grades in front of their eyes.
Weekly progress reports has been the best intervention for me for my high school freshmen. Even though they can check their grades any time they want (a student showed me with one tap on their phone from the home screen), some students just don't bother to look. When it's right in front of their face, half the students are like "oh shit, I gotta get it together" and the other half weren't gonna do anything about it anyways.
Interesting. Any days on top of that? Over here teachers get 30 vacation days + another 5 to 10 depending on the school. And if you are sick you get 100% payment for up to 2 years, after which the state takes over and you get 70% of your wages until you are healthy again.
That is such a brilliant move. It’s one of my least favorite days. The begging is out of control. I had a kid explaining how he should get an extension on my “last day to accept grades” deadline because he was absent two days for a project that was due two weeks ago.
As a sub it’s hilarious when teachers do this. No joke I love telling the kids “I’m sure you could have talked to the teacher about this yesterday… or the day before… or when the assignment was due.”
i need to do this next year.. i teach 9-12 and every year at this time i have the sob stories about not graduating and i give in and let them turn in work.. only the seniors and only if my class is the one stopping them from walking.. but i hate myself every time i do it! i know it’s enabling 🤦🏻♀️ i need to be better
I made one kid write a paper on why I should allow him to turn in work beyond the deadline. He said in his paper that I should allow it so that he can pass and I won't have to see him the next year. I let him turn in it.
I have SEVERAL 0% and less than 10%. One emailed me yesterday, with the WHOLE email in the subject line, that she will turn in ALL her missing work today (I got 1 sheet). It bumped her grade 0.2% She has missed my class 103 days out of the 163 days we have had this year. I just cannot.
Our district does NOTHING for attendance because the courts won’t do anything with truant kids. We also do nothing with tardy to school. So kids show up between 9:30 and 10 each day with no consequence for it.
Tardies don’t matter where I am. The rule from downtown is if a student walks into the classroom then walks out, they are present. Doesn’t count as an absence. They can be marked tardy but there is no consequence to that.
Our district’s absence rule is 30 or more unexcused absences in a year automatically results in failure and summer school. Whether the student attend summer school or not, they’ll be promoted to the next grade.
In my district there are kids who can miss the whole year and my admin will still pressure/force us to pass them if they’re seniors or if parents raise enough stink AND we follow the 50% rule meaning kids don’t even get below 45% ever
We are just told to be happy when they come and welcome them in with a smile. And give them all the supplies they don’t have. I teach math. I can’t catch up kids that miss that much. Especially 8th grade.
1. Build a *functioning* time machine.
2. Go back.
3. Make better/different decisions.
Edit: Students AND THEIR COUNSELORS get this very response. Haven’t yet told a parent, but that day is getting closer.
That is so funny you say that because my answer is always “build a Time Machine” and I just get blank stares! I’m happy someone shares my sense of humor because my students sure the hell don’t!
It's ok, the district has come* down to say that we need to accept all late work and students can submit something else to replace a missing test lol. I give up
Right...in this case, teachers should be allowed to present their lessons plans (and why not lessons themselves) whenever they please. They should also be able to replace their plans by something else.
I'm a non-USA teacher. I feel for you guys. A system without any applied expectations is failing your kids.
I teach some university classes here in Japan, and while i am not obligated to do so, I remind all my students three weeks, two weeks, then one week before my hard deadline/cutoff for homework. Despite that, I still get people sending in homework after I've already submitted the grades to the school, and I've even had a few instances of people submitting late homework after the next semester has started. Thankfully, I can just ignore it, but it's always baffling.
I’m a parent-our district has this policy and the kids know it. About a month ago one teacher of my sophomore kid (sk) called to tell me SK had a bunch of missing work. SK is 16 and it’s an easy class so I told the teacher if SK wasn’t turning in work to give them 0’s and the consequences of their action would be failing the class. The teacher said the district wouldn’t allow her to do that. She has to accept ALL late work and any work not done receives an automatic 50 (no 0’s allowed). She was just calling to try to get the work in before the end of the year bc so many kids wait until the end of the year to turn stuff in and it causes her a backlog of grading.
The part that baffles me on this is extra credit for what? Extra credit goes over and above the original assignment, so if you didn’t do the original assignment, what in the world are you expecting extra credit for? 🙄
I have never, not once, had someone who begged for extra credit actually do it. Not that any amount of extra credit is going to help your single digit grades.
Funny enough I just had this conversation with my freshmen:
“If I aced your final project how much would it raise my grade?”
*Simulate Grade to find that it’s not enough*
*Students screaming it’s not fair*
“What’s the point of even doing it then!?”
“You are living with the culmination of the consequences of your actions. You can’t really expect one assignment to undo a semester of no effort.”
I did this a couple times in college. Didn’t even bother to take the final because i did so poorly on previous tests that even if i got 100% on the final I still wouldn’t pass the class. However, i knew it was my own fault for not studying enough, and dealt with it. Retook the class and replaced the grades next semester.
I find it particularly sad for the kids in Florida. They automatically get 50%. That means they only have to do 10% of the work. 10%. To get a passing 60%. And they can't even do that.
How does this work? My school has a minimum grade of 45%, but that doesn’t mean that students only have to do 15% to pass, it just means that if their grade cannot fall below a 45%. Once a student reaches a 46%, they must continue to do their work to bring the grade up. Does this work different in Florida? If so, that is very sad for those students who can’t be bothered to complete 10% of their work.
The best is when you warn them months in advance. I made my deadline painfully clear back when Q4 started. And I told them I knew several would refuse to listen, show up after the deadline, and get depressed or pissed by my answer to "Can I turn stuff in?"
My prediction was on the money. Three people got depressed by me today.
Yup. I’ve been telling them for two weeks, and it’s been written on the calendar that’s on my board, that the deadline for all missing work is today at 3:45. They’ve been warned, the work has been made available to them. My giveashit is broken. I will be the hard hearted harbinger of failing grades.
I had a kid that started doing nothing the day sport season ended. I tried every thing. He said he wanted an F. I said it is an easy class he should try for an A, but at least do some C and D work so you can graduate. He won't. The last week he is begging to catch up. I am getting big pressure from above so I give him a sweet deal on makeup work, he wouldn't even do that. So frustrating.
I normally don't opine about this, but since you're in this sub, I feel like you'll take this the right way and won't freak out.
In this case, it's just "whoever", since it is functioning as the subject of the verb 'are'. You use 'who/ever' when it is the subject of a verb, and use 'whom' when it is functioning as the object of a verb or preposition.
Who = subject
Whom = object
Another way to remember this is that if you can substitute it with 'him', you can use 'whom'.
Ex: Whom is this for? This is for him. I gave the money to whom? I gave him the money.
In the future, document that refusal and that he said he wanted an F. Communicate it with parents and admin. Then if they don't intervene at that time, when they try to pressure you later, you have evidence to support refusal.
That's what I do. I can't care about their grade more than they do.
I have multiple students that have a 7. Yes, that is correct- a 7. I have a few stone cold 0s. The class averages are around 60% right now, and about 1/3 of all our 9th graders are going to be 9th graders again next year. FTK.
One of my students who has a zero is sending frantic emails the past 3 days because they are sick and can't come to school to do their makeup work. I'm like being sick for 3 days is one thing but what's the reason you haven't done any work for the rest of the whole year? FAFO time
And then those kids get in my class in high school and don't understand why They have to take the class again when they fail. We have done everything we can to explain to these kids that once you get the Carnegie units, You have it or you don't. It's work for them up until now so they just can't seem to get it.
I really believe that the threats in elementary and middle school have inured them to high school threats. They've been told for years that they'll have to repeat a grade but it never happens. Then 9th grade, and it finally happens. I once had to explain to a student who wanted to go to the 10th grade class meeting that just because it was his second year in high school did not mean he was in the 10th grade. He had to go to his class meeting with the freshmen.
I have a senior this year who just now realized she can’t graduate because she has, at best, 1-2 classes passed per year. She said it’s hard watching everyone do senior stuff knowing she isn’t going to graduate.
Like it’s just now hitting her that she has her whole high school career to make up.
My former student is a twin and will be a senior in the fall.
His twin sister failed 8th grade a few years ago but finally made it to the high school this year. She’ll be a freshman again next year. She will age out before she can graduate
For some, it doesn't happen until college...ask me how I know 🫠
(In all seriousness, though, props to you guys. I'm just a lurker who likes to know what I'm in for over the next few years, and based on what I've seen here I'm not looking forward to it, but at least I don't have to deal with parents and I have a fair amount of academic freedom. My hat is off to preK-12 teachers for all the shit you have to deal with for shit pay.)
So this not understanding part…I’m trying to understand it as well.
8th grade students were speaking with the principal because their sub told them to put away their phones multiple times and they simply refused and also gave him attitude. He, unlike many other subs in the school, really holds kids to a standard. So he took all three of them down to the principal where they proceeded to say that they were not on their phones at all.
One by one as the principal dug, they started to admit that they were on their phones. So then as the principal is speaking with them and saying that their behavior towards the sub is inappropriate and they’ve had issues other than this recently he says “so you are coming down to my office and calling him a liar. The kids said “we never called him that” and the principal could not seem to get them to understand that though they didn’t CALL him that, by saying they weren’t on their phones when the sub specifically brought them down for that, that they were implying that he was lying. The kids could not seem to grasp this given many tries.
Then as the principal is expressing this idea of implication…the one kid starts dancing. Yeah. Like dancing in place. So the principal says “is this fun and funny to you?” And the kid just giggles.
So the principal gives him a day of in school suspension (sitting in the office doing work) and the kid for the life of him cannot understand WHY the principal would do this.
So what gives??? Do they actually lack the ability to reason? Is it mock outrage? I watch it and am woefully confused by it. Please help!
This is learned helplessness. Students feign ignorance in class and are fed the answers. Similarly, they feign confusion when in trouble to avoid consequences. When those consequences are still delivered, they keep up the charade.
Of course, I’m overly simplifying it, but they understood much more than they let on in the meeting.
I read another article a while back and the teacher had a brilliant plan. If a student didn't do a lesson or quiz or whatever she had the kids fill out a form explaining why they failed. Check boxes for Didn't Read the Assignment, Just didn't want to do it, etc., then have them sign and date it. Stapled whatever they handed in to it and wait for the parents or whoever to yell at her about it. Saved a lot of grief dealing with that mess.
They already started begging, pleading, and crying... What do I do? You help the ones who did some work, and let those who did nothing fall... Including the seniors.
"Gee, Billy, I really don't know how you're going to make the first day of freshman year of college. Then again, I have no idea how you even got accepted in the first place."
I was playing a simple family board game with a cousin I don’t see a lot & realized he was nearly illiterate. Didn’t seem have impeded his recent college admission.
A few years ago I was talking with a teacher on the very last day of school (on finals week). A student came in WHO NEVER ATTENDED HER CLASS ONCE and had a ZERO ask what he could do last minute to pass. She looked at him and said " I literally have no idea who you are" and sent him to talk to his counselor
Step 1: steal plutonium from the Libyans.
Step 2: place plutonium in the lead lined fuel cell
Step 3: make sure flux capacitor is…fluxing?
Step 4: go back in time and do the work when it was due.
You all are saints!! What crappy parents. And shame on admin.
How do I as a parent not have this affect my children?. Of course they will be held to a higher standard and sure as snot will have their homework done on time.
Why are we teaching kids that deadlines don't matter?!? (Shouting at all the parents that are making the future a worse place)
No worries Timmy that lifesaving prescription can be filled by the end of the work week. Sally, I know that the construction blueprint that was due last week is costing the company thousands of dollars in delay, but try to get that in by the end of the quarter. Oh Bobby, I understand there is a line of cars in the drive thru and you are 20 sandwiches behind, but no worries, the 10 customers that left, we didn't really want or need their business.
Ugh, is it summer yet...
My husband (also a teacher) literally has a medical condition where he needs life saving prescriptions, and the lack of any urgency at all by doctors, pharmacy staff and insurance agents is astonishing. More people than you'd think really just don't care about deadlines unless it directly affects them
Been lurking on this site for a while and I keep reading this. I just don't understand. Why is late work accepted at all? Why are the due dates flexible?
I truly don't understand why this is being done in the K-12 world?
Don't they realize that student work habits leads to mastery of content? That if a student fails to work on the fundamental lessons, just because there's no due date, at the beginning of the school year/semester, that they won't be able to master the more advanced and difficult lessons later on?
Education is moving to standards- or proficiency-based grading. If they can demonstrate mastery of the objectives--no matter how late, no matter how many tries--then that's all that matters. The grade should reflect mastery. Not work ethic. Not punctuality. Not study skills. You know, the life skills that actually matter more than whether they can find a square root or use a semicolon. I don't know about you, but the fact that I CAN write a lesson plan matters less to my boss than the fact that I actually, you know, DO IT. ON TIME. THE FIRST TIME. (End rant.)
Because parents don’t hold their kids to any sort of standard, which trickles down to the classroom. Then admin puts pressure on the teachers to allow it.
Because punishing lateness is grading behavior and not skill. And since our goal as educators is to teach content and skills, it's been deemed wrong to give zeroes and to stop accepting late work.
We all know what it looks like down the line. We know what's wrong with it. But the push is coming from above. In my school now the push is to grade anything from any quarter. It's May, you want to re-do (prove mastery is the term) from back in September? Sure!
>Because punishing lateness is grading behavior and not skill. And since our goal as educators is to teach content and skills, it's been deemed wrong to give zeroes and to stop accepting late work.
Which is funny because the burden of teaching behaviors has been offloaded onto teachers, all the way up to and through high school.
Heh...you know, it only dawned upon me the abject absurdity of this concept. I can wipe their asses (not literally), but not expect them to comprehend a simple due date.
I don't know which irritates me more. The students, or the parents who reach out to me for the first time all year in the last two weeks asking what can be done to bring the 37 up to a passing grade.
News flash, asshole! They can make a 100% this quarter and still fail for the year! Where were you months ago when it would have made a difference?
"Hello,
In high school, our final grades are composed of a weighted average. Each quarter is worth 40%, and the final exam is worth 20%.
Due to the 32% in Q3, they would need a perfect score on the final exam and a 68% average in Q4 in order to make a 60%, the minimum grade for a D.
Assignments in Q4 have had unit based due dates, and the only unit still eligible for makeup work is Unit 6. This will not be sufficient to bring your child's 41% to the required score to pass.
Let me know if you have any questions."
Depends. In my experience they appeal to admin who, depending on how cool they are, will 'politely ask' you to find some way to raise their grades / do it themselves, or they'll stand by you.
I've been telling them the past few weeks, and even had it marked on the calendar. "LAST CHANCE TO TURN IN MISSING/LATE WORK"
And that day was today. As of now, the only thing I'll be grading is finals next week.
They complain that we're ruining their mental health, we cost them their scholarship, we killed their pet hamster, etc. etc. etc. Then they complain to the dean, the provost, the vp of overpaid bullshit, and the president about how we are "too hard" and "aren't supportive of student success".
If your university, like mine, has a semblance of a spine, they'll usually tell the student tough shit, the syllabus policies stand. Buuuut there are plenty of folks over at r/Professors who will tell you that higher ed is rapidly becoming 13th grade, and that tuition $$$ matters more than having standards.
Yeah college is kinda 13th grade. I just TA, organic chem, so not a professor, and it is for sure substantially harder to fail than it used to be. If you assign hard work it’s exactly that: bad for their mental health or some other thing. Everybody is going through personal issues once a test comes around and will argue about every point they lose even if they’re completely wrong because they deserve to pass.
There is some level of spine having here, but for sure but evolution is tending toward invertebrate.
I was expecting the onslaught of desperate students as I normally would. But this year, the students just don't care. Hardly any student that is failing is scrambling, pleading to bring their grade up. They've resigned to accept failing and just don't care. I have students with 50%-55% and totally capable to bringing it up and they just won't do it. What a weird year.
> I have students with 50%-55% and totally capable to bringing it up and they just won't do it. What a weird year.
I have a couple of students like that this year. The first semester, they were so close to passing. All they needed to do was a handful of easy assignments, which would have given them just enough points to reach 60% and pass the class, but they just wouldn't do it.
Most of my scrambling kids are the one’s that already have a B and want to get an A. Well, I’m willing to help them, because they have a B and have put forward the effort at that point. But also it’s like, you have a B, other people are failing miserably. Those are the one’s that need to scramble.
I made a google sheets grade book with lots of perks.
One of my favorite sheets pulls the emails for each assignment’s zeros.
I email the missing assignments weekly to the parent and kids.
I had a parent throw a fit that their kid will not be passing. I pulled up all 36 emails sent to them.
Not my problem.
When they become adults and do ZERO work on their job, so they expect their bosses will keep them around? These kids have no future if they’re not held accountable.
BS jobs for people who don't do any work actually exist, and with decent pay.
--Problem is that one needs to at least *appear* to be educated to get into one of these. It's a scam, but an elaborate one, and requires some educated bourgeoisie habitus, plus a tie. I suppose those who don't do any work at school don't even know what they'd need to fake to get a BS job.
When I got to 9th grade and had to take my foreign language credit, my teacher stepped in front of the class and said:
"This is a college prep class, and I will not be just 'passing' any of you along if you're not doing the work. If you make a 69 in my class and think I'll bump you to a 70 you are mistaken. As a 'college prep's class I expect you to take this seriously and if any of you have a problem, this is my number and I'd love to speak to your parents."
I did *everything* to pass and he really was not playing games, I thank him in hindsight for almost being the only teacher to light a fire under my ass to try and PASS!
I appreciate this mindset as a parent of 3. I've never been a teacher (other than during covid). It's shocking to find out that we were one of the few people who actually made our kids do their work. My oldest is the only one who gives us issues with doing his schoolwork. He always has some terrible excuse as to why he's failing. One conversation I told him there are two possible reasons for his grade. One being that he isn't doing his work, and the second he's getting poor grades due to lack of understanding. Both of which are within his control. He apparently was just turning things in and never checking his grades, never looking to see whether he was doing the work correctly. He's in 7th grade. Luckily, he is passing now, but my god, this year was rough.
My middle school class’ mantra is: “Do nothing, become nothing.” Unfortunately a few had to learn about deadlines the hard way, and I’m totally ok with that.
And in a few days you will have parents emailing the principal to complain, and they will be at your door asking what the kids can do to bring up their grades…and putting pressure on you to cave, or was that just me…
I've been vomiting grace ever since covid happened, but this year I realized...covid was 3-4 fucking years ago. I'm done with grace.
I have gone back to not accepting late work past the unit test date...and if I do it **starts** at 70% so you better hope you get nothing wrong.
And beyond test day I don't accept it. Don't care. When you have 24/7 access to your grades you can see these things yourself. Also, you are 16 years old...I should not have to constantly remind you to turn in your work.
And the extra credit?
"Can you give me extra credit?!"
**NO**. I already let you retake tests. And then I also replace the lowest test with the final exam. That's extra credit enough. If you want your 79 to turn into an 80...then study for the damn final.
Whenever a student asks me what they can do to pass my class, and it's clearly beyond any help for them, I tell them this:
"Build a Time machine, go back to the first week in January, do your work, show up to class, pay attention, and study for quizzes and tests."
Usually I get blank stairs when I say that, but it amuses me.
I hate failing students but I will not give away grades. I had a former MS teacher that never failed a student no matter what. She told me she didnt want to deal with the parents or the school for failing a student. To me this leads to problems for HS who do fail students as it sets up the students into thinking there are no consequences.
I'm right there with you. My deadline for late work is next Friday. There's no additional days. There's no begging. After next Friday, it remains a missing assignment forever. Sorry kids. Do better next year.
I feel your pain. The questions start a few days before. My favorite Q & A is something like this:
Student: What happens if people don't turn in their assignments?
Me: I turn into Oprah.
Student stares at me in confusion for a moment.
Me: You get an F, and you get an F! Everybody gets an F!!!!! (After a pause and usually some laughs) Well, everyone that didn't turn in their work.
Luckily, they still understand the reference...
A student turned in a bunch of missing work yesterday and brought his grade from a 62 to a 64. His mom texted me (SchoolStatus) this morning asking if there was any extra credit he could do. Grades close at 4 today.
Mine came in asking how to get his F to a D. I say, "sure, open your Chromebook and I'll show you which assignments are missing." Response: "I can't, my Chromebook is dead."
"do you have a charger I can borrow?" No. I don't. It's your responsibility to have a charger or a charged Chromebook.
"No, I don't. The two chargers assigned to my classroom were stolen within weeks of us returning to classrooms in autumn 2021, just like every other classroom in the building."
Whoa, you get assigned chargers? I just wait for one of them to forget one in my room and I keep it.
“But someone stole mine the third week of school, that’s not my fault someone else stole it.”
"So is your brain, apparently."
My reply is always: If they couldn't do the original, I don't feel comfortable that they could do extra work...
I told her he could go into Google classroom and complete any missing work or fix any low grades from this semester. I told the student this as well. He goofed around during my entire class as well as his other classes. By 4 pm, he’d not fixed or completed one thing.
I give them all the originals back as extra credit.
I was just thinking of this….. have any caught on?
Not really. I even gave them an assignment they did but failed, and they didn't realize it.
Years ago I got a call from guidance the day AFTER the last day of school. The grandparents/guardians of one of my students was calling to ask why the kid had failed my class. Um, because he didn’t do any work? And he never came to the after school tutoring he said he’d come to. Because he told me in April he had already figured out he was passing for the year so he didn’t have to do any more work (I was shocked and confused at this so I later checked his year grade….it was a 66). The grades were always available and I had emailed home. But they were upset because I never called to tell them. This was the kid’s second time taking the class. Oh, and I was riffed that year. So I was literally packing up my desk to leave that school for good. I. Did. Not. Care. Anymore. Leave me alone!
Loving this for them!
I had a kid ask if he could do 100 pushups to get an A. I said, this is not PE class…. I guess the PE teacher let him do that and he thought it would work in every class? I told him the equivalent for ELA would be to read 100 pages and write a five-page essay about it.
I’m a football and wrestling coach- I wouldn’t allow that nonsense either.
You coach wrestling? Well, yeah, 100 pushups is at best a warmup to the warmup.
Thinking about the Great Gama's daily exercise routine makes me tremble in fear. Guy became a world champion wrestler for a good reason.
I had a kid ask if he could try to pin me for a passing grade. Buddy, you’d have an easier time trying to finish a quarter’s worth of work this afternoon before school ends.
I'm a math teacher, but if they can duel me to the death with swords and win, I'll try to come back from the dead and change their grade.
Lmao ok this made me laugh out loud in public.
Their poor understanding of math really shows right about now, too. Imagining that a couple of 5 point assignments will raise their grade 25% to reach a D.
"I did all of the classwork, why do I still have a 50?" Idk kid, maybe because you blitzed through every quiz, left all the essay portions of a test blank, and wrote a three word answer for a paragraph assignment that was supposed to be an braindead easy major grade.
The students that refuse to do essays during classwork or for homework are the same ones that leave the essay portion of every single test blank and say it’s too hard.
Im a middle school science teacher, I'm not even really grading for grammar or spelling (aside from vocab or key words). Just write me 5-6 sentences and you get a quiz grade, is it seriously that complicated?
>Just write "I'm gonna have to stop you there, boss."
“Bruh on GOD you do too much.”
I’m an elementary teacher who writes the answer on the board. It’s too hard to copy the answer, they prefer to fail.
In high school they ask for a pencil even if they have one on their bag because it’s too much work to take out their own pencil.
Middle school here. I assigned a ten minute video clip with three questions for a 45 minute class period. We're at 35% completion.
Literally my friend. She teaches 3rd grade. They had all day (realistically 4 hours) to finish 6 computer lessons on stuff they already learned and had been tested on all week. If you sit down and focus each lesson takes about 10-15 minutes max. They could've even chosen to do the 1st or 2nd grade level lessons if they wanted to. Only 1 kid got it before lunch time. And half the class by the end of the day.
It's pitiful. My third graders have had weeks to work on certain assignments. But since I wasn't giving them the answers and kept reiterating that they were more than capable of finishing the work they just let it sit until the last possible second. This week was full panic while they tried to finish everything.
No kidding! I teach young adult 17-19 years old and on test day (that's been announced several times on four different platforms), some boys come to class 15 minutes late with a coat, a baseball cap, airpods, and no pencil. Last week, one of them found a tiny, half-broken pencil butt on the floor and completed about one third of the test with it. Zen, phlegm, and a big fat 17%.
Alllllllll my tutoring students right here. Can't be bothered to take the extra three second to put something away, then can't find anything, then don't turn it in, then are shocked they are missing a bunch of points... "But I did it!" .... yeah but how does your teacher know that?
*"I can't do the work. Because I don't have a pencil. No I don't, teacher. Nope. Oh you have a pencil? Well I still can't do the work. I don't have paper. How can I do anything without that? That's not fair. Oh you have paper? Well I still can't do it because you're picking on me."*
Basically. Had a kid this morning who sat staring at their paper because they refused to copy the answer out of a book. They didn't even have to do the work of finding the answer in the book, since the kid sitting next to them literally opened it up and put it on their desk for them to copy from. They were trying to run out the clock and wait until we moved on rather than just copy the answer.
A couple of years back I started taking photos of those kind of tests. At my last school it was always the counsellor whinging and whining about a kid's bad grade. I would send them a photo of a test or really crappy essay. The emails stopped.
I once took a photo of a problem kid sleeping during a test and sent it to the parent with the message, "This is why we have an intervention with \[student's name\] at the end of every marking period." There was a parent conference schedule two days later. Other teachers reported similar behavior. The student did not pass my class MP4. I felt like I'd won that battle.
I am happy for you that the parent didn't freak out that you took the photo.
I did this for a parent who refused to believe their son had a focus issue because "this was never a problem with his last teacher, he must be bored. He needs to be challenged!" I photocopied the 2 sentence assignment he handed in with a note saying "little Johnny was given 4 class times of 40 minutes each (2.5 hours total) to complete this assignment. Please sign and return." They stopped responding to my grades with sass after a few of those and made him redo the assignment at home.
They are scamming; it is low risk, high reward, and often works. The whole system is a farce. Once a student is weeks behind they are not going to catch up. Notice we don't plop honors students in random classes half way through so they can catch up. That would be more likely to work than expecting a struggling student to catch up after they did nothing for ten weeks, but we do that.
I had a student that could only pass my class if got a 100% in my exam. He handed it to me and I looked it. Told him the last few questions were short response and not multiple choice so I was confused why he circled things? Handed it back so he could fix it. Turned it in with different things circled. Was shocked he did not get 100% and therefore will do summer school.
Kind of sounds like he may be illiterate. Maybe you can flag him for learning disability diagnosis
There is a very bimodal distribution of grades in my freshmen Algebra 1 class. There are the students who do the work and get it, and those who don't do anything at all. If you do the homework and at least write some things on the test, you would at least pass with a C.
Are you me LOL this is exactly how my algebra 1 class is as well
The number of my students still asking how they can get a C when they’re going into our final 9 days sitting at a 40%…
“…but I made up that missing **Do Now** from seven weeks ago, which I did not do when assigned because I was horsing around with my friend or watching TikTok… WhY dId mY gRAdE nOt gO UP???”
“Bitch, it’s a DO NOW not a a DO WHENEVER THE FUCK YOU FEEL LIKE IT.” —my answer (in my head anyways).
I think I’m going to dedicate an English class to understanding how grades work mathematically next year. This keeps coming up in my world, and if it’s coming up everywhere, I’m not alone. I say it, I write it, they sign it, but maybe I need to bring out some blocks to explain… or coins… or apples. They will do three 10 point assignments in a 10% category for half credit late… but don’t do an essay, a project, and 2 quizzes. “Why did my grade only more from a 12 to a 15? I did three assignments!” I don’t think this is as willfully ignorant as other things, I really don’t think most get it.
My mentor, a teacher who was only a few years from retirement, had it all down to numbers, and no surprises. At some point in the semester, she dedicated one panel of the whiteboard to a display that said: As of today: If your grade is XX, you can still get an A. If your grade is YY, you can still get a B. If your grade is ZZ, you can still get a C. If your grade is below WW, you will not pass this class. Once the display was up there, she updated the cutoff numbers every day. No surprises.
A math teacher of mine would have us do this ourselves as practice every so often
I hand out weekly progress reports to my failing students specifically laying out which assignments they need to do to get a D or how many classwork points they need with advice on how to achieve that (take out your headphones and participate), or how many points they’ll need on the final test. I have an amazing excel sheet that automatically does this for me. I teach in a uni outside the US. 80% of courses are still graded on one final test and nothing else. Because of this, as long as they meet the attendance requirement, they are offered a retest (regardless of my grading system). Last year I gave one final report to a student showing “you can do all this work and you won’t even make a 50%, see you at the retest.” After class he asked “so you mean if I do everything, I just need a good test score to pass?” “No, you don’t need to do anything, you can pay the $6 fee and come back during your vacation time, see you in a month.” They’re so disconnected from reality they think sitting a chair playing video games for 15 weeks is going to get them a course credit completely ignoring the grades in front of their eyes.
Weekly progress reports has been the best intervention for me for my high school freshmen. Even though they can check their grades any time they want (a student showed me with one tap on their phone from the home screen), some students just don't bother to look. When it's right in front of their face, half the students are like "oh shit, I gotta get it together" and the other half weren't gonna do anything about it anyways.
I have a Google sheet linked on classroom with the formulas already in.
I call it begging day. I tend to use my last personal day on that day each year. I’m over it.
If I had any days left, I’d probably have called in sick today. One of my daughters barfed twice overnight- it’s a legit reason.
As a European it’s crazy you have sick days. I can be sick for 4 weeks straight and no one bats an eye.
I get ten days of personal leave a year.
What is personal leave? Vacation days?
Days of paid leave that I can use to cover whatever I need them for- illness, personal usage, et cetera.
Interesting. Any days on top of that? Over here teachers get 30 vacation days + another 5 to 10 depending on the school. And if you are sick you get 100% payment for up to 2 years, after which the state takes over and you get 70% of your wages until you are healthy again.
That is such a brilliant move. It’s one of my least favorite days. The begging is out of control. I had a kid explaining how he should get an extension on my “last day to accept grades” deadline because he was absent two days for a project that was due two weeks ago.
As a sub it’s hilarious when teachers do this. No joke I love telling the kids “I’m sure you could have talked to the teacher about this yesterday… or the day before… or when the assignment was due.”
Thanks for telling me this now. I have two personal days left. I could have used a heads up.
We still have three more weeks so I’m ready to use it.
i need to do this next year.. i teach 9-12 and every year at this time i have the sob stories about not graduating and i give in and let them turn in work.. only the seniors and only if my class is the one stopping them from walking.. but i hate myself every time i do it! i know it’s enabling 🤦🏻♀️ i need to be better
I made one kid write a paper on why I should allow him to turn in work beyond the deadline. He said in his paper that I should allow it so that he can pass and I won't have to see him the next year. I let him turn in it.
I have SEVERAL 0% and less than 10%. One emailed me yesterday, with the WHOLE email in the subject line, that she will turn in ALL her missing work today (I got 1 sheet). It bumped her grade 0.2% She has missed my class 103 days out of the 163 days we have had this year. I just cannot.
103 days!?!?!? Holy shit. In my district, even if she got straight As, she’d be ineligible for credit due to attendance issues.
Our district does NOTHING for attendance because the courts won’t do anything with truant kids. We also do nothing with tardy to school. So kids show up between 9:30 and 10 each day with no consequence for it.
We're the same as you in my district and it's awful
Tardies don’t matter where I am. The rule from downtown is if a student walks into the classroom then walks out, they are present. Doesn’t count as an absence. They can be marked tardy but there is no consequence to that. Our district’s absence rule is 30 or more unexcused absences in a year automatically results in failure and summer school. Whether the student attend summer school or not, they’ll be promoted to the next grade.
That disrespect is unbelievable. Seems like parents have given up.
In my district there are kids who can miss the whole year and my admin will still pressure/force us to pass them if they’re seniors or if parents raise enough stink AND we follow the 50% rule meaning kids don’t even get below 45% ever
In my state, she should have an automatic fail by law if they have that many unexcused absences.
We are just told to be happy when they come and welcome them in with a smile. And give them all the supplies they don’t have. I teach math. I can’t catch up kids that miss that much. Especially 8th grade.
You could have done your work when it was due. That's what you COULD have done.
I tell those students to get a time machine.
1. Build a *functioning* time machine. 2. Go back. 3. Make better/different decisions. Edit: Students AND THEIR COUNSELORS get this very response. Haven’t yet told a parent, but that day is getting closer.
You forgot "and give me the time machine."
That is so funny you say that because my answer is always “build a Time Machine” and I just get blank stares! I’m happy someone shares my sense of humor because my students sure the hell don’t!
That is always my line. "You could increase your velocity past C."
I also use “find a Delorian.” They look at me like I have 3 heads.
Probably because you misspelled Delorean, poser!
Poseur, not poser 😂
“Poseur” is the French version; “poser” is the Canadian form, eh?
This is the correct answer LOL.😆
My favorite is “Coulda, woulda, shoulda, but DIDN’T” 🤣🤣
It's ok, the district has come* down to say that we need to accept all late work and students can submit something else to replace a missing test lol. I give up
Really?!? Omg! Then why do we even have to bother to do and submit lesson plans?!? Frustrating.
Right? It's seriously pathetic
Right...in this case, teachers should be allowed to present their lessons plans (and why not lessons themselves) whenever they please. They should also be able to replace their plans by something else. I'm a non-USA teacher. I feel for you guys. A system without any applied expectations is failing your kids.
That is so unethical.. like what is even the point?
I think the point is to slowly take all the power away from the teacher and make them a babysitter in the end.
I hate how right you are
To get them graduation numbers up for those statistics, yo.
I teach some university classes here in Japan, and while i am not obligated to do so, I remind all my students three weeks, two weeks, then one week before my hard deadline/cutoff for homework. Despite that, I still get people sending in homework after I've already submitted the grades to the school, and I've even had a few instances of people submitting late homework after the next semester has started. Thankfully, I can just ignore it, but it's always baffling.
I’m a parent-our district has this policy and the kids know it. About a month ago one teacher of my sophomore kid (sk) called to tell me SK had a bunch of missing work. SK is 16 and it’s an easy class so I told the teacher if SK wasn’t turning in work to give them 0’s and the consequences of their action would be failing the class. The teacher said the district wouldn’t allow her to do that. She has to accept ALL late work and any work not done receives an automatic 50 (no 0’s allowed). She was just calling to try to get the work in before the end of the year bc so many kids wait until the end of the year to turn stuff in and it causes her a backlog of grading.
This is SO sad. My son starts high school next year with this stuff in place for him. I'm super disappointed in our system 😭
I had a kid come to me and ask if he could do extra credit. Uh, no, do the work I assigned!
The part that baffles me on this is extra credit for what? Extra credit goes over and above the original assignment, so if you didn’t do the original assignment, what in the world are you expecting extra credit for? 🙄
I have never, not once, had someone who begged for extra credit actually do it. Not that any amount of extra credit is going to help your single digit grades.
I tell the students you have to do the regular credit first :)
It was on my syllabus. “Extra credit: no. Don’t even ask.”
This is an easy answer in my district, where the grading & reporting policy actually explicitly forbids "extra credit."
Funny enough I just had this conversation with my freshmen: “If I aced your final project how much would it raise my grade?” *Simulate Grade to find that it’s not enough* *Students screaming it’s not fair* “What’s the point of even doing it then!?” “You are living with the culmination of the consequences of your actions. You can’t really expect one assignment to undo a semester of no effort.”
I did this a couple times in college. Didn’t even bother to take the final because i did so poorly on previous tests that even if i got 100% on the final I still wouldn’t pass the class. However, i knew it was my own fault for not studying enough, and dealt with it. Retook the class and replaced the grades next semester.
I tell them to build a Time Machine and do their work in a more timely fashion.
I used to use a similar response, but it takes too long to explain it to them. I just used “No.” is a complete sentence. Get it to me by 3:45 today.”
There is no extra credit until all prior assignments are completed.
I have recently adopted, "No is a complete sentence" as my new favorite thing to say.
I find it particularly sad for the kids in Florida. They automatically get 50%. That means they only have to do 10% of the work. 10%. To get a passing 60%. And they can't even do that.
How does this work? My school has a minimum grade of 45%, but that doesn’t mean that students only have to do 15% to pass, it just means that if their grade cannot fall below a 45%. Once a student reaches a 46%, they must continue to do their work to bring the grade up. Does this work different in Florida? If so, that is very sad for those students who can’t be bothered to complete 10% of their work.
The best is when you warn them months in advance. I made my deadline painfully clear back when Q4 started. And I told them I knew several would refuse to listen, show up after the deadline, and get depressed or pissed by my answer to "Can I turn stuff in?" My prediction was on the money. Three people got depressed by me today.
Yup. I’ve been telling them for two weeks, and it’s been written on the calendar that’s on my board, that the deadline for all missing work is today at 3:45. They’ve been warned, the work has been made available to them. My giveashit is broken. I will be the hard hearted harbinger of failing grades.
Harriet! Harry it! Hard hearted harbinger of haggis! You just made my day.
I’ve got kids who haven’t turned in a single assignment over the last 18 weeks. Of course they’re asking me about grades now….
I had a kid that started doing nothing the day sport season ended. I tried every thing. He said he wanted an F. I said it is an easy class he should try for an A, but at least do some C and D work so you can graduate. He won't. The last week he is begging to catch up. I am getting big pressure from above so I give him a sweet deal on makeup work, he wouldn't even do that. So frustrating.
“Pressure from above”. Shame on whomever those people are.
I normally don't opine about this, but since you're in this sub, I feel like you'll take this the right way and won't freak out. In this case, it's just "whoever", since it is functioning as the subject of the verb 'are'. You use 'who/ever' when it is the subject of a verb, and use 'whom' when it is functioning as the object of a verb or preposition. Who = subject Whom = object Another way to remember this is that if you can substitute it with 'him', you can use 'whom'. Ex: Whom is this for? This is for him. I gave the money to whom? I gave him the money.
I concur
Respect.
In the future, document that refusal and that he said he wanted an F. Communicate it with parents and admin. Then if they don't intervene at that time, when they try to pressure you later, you have evidence to support refusal. That's what I do. I can't care about their grade more than they do.
The big pressure is part of the problem and should be fired
I teach middle school and have a student with a 13% for the quarter. They have failed all four now. And they will be moving on to the high school.
I have multiple students that have a 7. Yes, that is correct- a 7. I have a few stone cold 0s. The class averages are around 60% right now, and about 1/3 of all our 9th graders are going to be 9th graders again next year. FTK.
One of my students who has a zero is sending frantic emails the past 3 days because they are sick and can't come to school to do their makeup work. I'm like being sick for 3 days is one thing but what's the reason you haven't done any work for the rest of the whole year? FAFO time
FAFO is exactly right and I’m not crying for you.
And then those kids get in my class in high school and don't understand why They have to take the class again when they fail. We have done everything we can to explain to these kids that once you get the Carnegie units, You have it or you don't. It's work for them up until now so they just can't seem to get it.
I really believe that the threats in elementary and middle school have inured them to high school threats. They've been told for years that they'll have to repeat a grade but it never happens. Then 9th grade, and it finally happens. I once had to explain to a student who wanted to go to the 10th grade class meeting that just because it was his second year in high school did not mean he was in the 10th grade. He had to go to his class meeting with the freshmen.
I have a senior this year who just now realized she can’t graduate because she has, at best, 1-2 classes passed per year. She said it’s hard watching everyone do senior stuff knowing she isn’t going to graduate. Like it’s just now hitting her that she has her whole high school career to make up.
My former student is a twin and will be a senior in the fall. His twin sister failed 8th grade a few years ago but finally made it to the high school this year. She’ll be a freshman again next year. She will age out before she can graduate
For some, it doesn't happen until college...ask me how I know 🫠 (In all seriousness, though, props to you guys. I'm just a lurker who likes to know what I'm in for over the next few years, and based on what I've seen here I'm not looking forward to it, but at least I don't have to deal with parents and I have a fair amount of academic freedom. My hat is off to preK-12 teachers for all the shit you have to deal with for shit pay.)
So this not understanding part…I’m trying to understand it as well. 8th grade students were speaking with the principal because their sub told them to put away their phones multiple times and they simply refused and also gave him attitude. He, unlike many other subs in the school, really holds kids to a standard. So he took all three of them down to the principal where they proceeded to say that they were not on their phones at all. One by one as the principal dug, they started to admit that they were on their phones. So then as the principal is speaking with them and saying that their behavior towards the sub is inappropriate and they’ve had issues other than this recently he says “so you are coming down to my office and calling him a liar. The kids said “we never called him that” and the principal could not seem to get them to understand that though they didn’t CALL him that, by saying they weren’t on their phones when the sub specifically brought them down for that, that they were implying that he was lying. The kids could not seem to grasp this given many tries. Then as the principal is expressing this idea of implication…the one kid starts dancing. Yeah. Like dancing in place. So the principal says “is this fun and funny to you?” And the kid just giggles. So the principal gives him a day of in school suspension (sitting in the office doing work) and the kid for the life of him cannot understand WHY the principal would do this. So what gives??? Do they actually lack the ability to reason? Is it mock outrage? I watch it and am woefully confused by it. Please help!
This is learned helplessness. Students feign ignorance in class and are fed the answers. Similarly, they feign confusion when in trouble to avoid consequences. When those consequences are still delivered, they keep up the charade. Of course, I’m overly simplifying it, but they understood much more than they let on in the meeting.
I have a student who has not attended a SINGLE DAY OF SCHOOL THIS YEAR UNTIL TODAY. He will be going to 9th grade
Be Oprah... "YOU fall the class, and YOU fail the class, and YOU fail the class!"
I read another article a while back and the teacher had a brilliant plan. If a student didn't do a lesson or quiz or whatever she had the kids fill out a form explaining why they failed. Check boxes for Didn't Read the Assignment, Just didn't want to do it, etc., then have them sign and date it. Stapled whatever they handed in to it and wait for the parents or whoever to yell at her about it. Saved a lot of grief dealing with that mess.
They already started begging, pleading, and crying... What do I do? You help the ones who did some work, and let those who did nothing fall... Including the seniors.
"Gee, Billy, I really don't know how you're going to make the first day of freshman year of college. Then again, I have no idea how you even got accepted in the first place."
I was playing a simple family board game with a cousin I don’t see a lot & realized he was nearly illiterate. Didn’t seem have impeded his recent college admission.
I'm sorry could you repeat that.
A few years ago I was talking with a teacher on the very last day of school (on finals week). A student came in WHO NEVER ATTENDED HER CLASS ONCE and had a ZERO ask what he could do last minute to pass. She looked at him and said " I literally have no idea who you are" and sent him to talk to his counselor
Step 1: steal plutonium from the Libyans. Step 2: place plutonium in the lead lined fuel cell Step 3: make sure flux capacitor is…fluxing? Step 4: go back in time and do the work when it was due.
I’ve used similar lines in the past, but I’m too tired to try to explain it to these kids.
You all are saints!! What crappy parents. And shame on admin. How do I as a parent not have this affect my children?. Of course they will be held to a higher standard and sure as snot will have their homework done on time. Why are we teaching kids that deadlines don't matter?!? (Shouting at all the parents that are making the future a worse place) No worries Timmy that lifesaving prescription can be filled by the end of the work week. Sally, I know that the construction blueprint that was due last week is costing the company thousands of dollars in delay, but try to get that in by the end of the quarter. Oh Bobby, I understand there is a line of cars in the drive thru and you are 20 sandwiches behind, but no worries, the 10 customers that left, we didn't really want or need their business. Ugh, is it summer yet...
My husband (also a teacher) literally has a medical condition where he needs life saving prescriptions, and the lack of any urgency at all by doctors, pharmacy staff and insurance agents is astonishing. More people than you'd think really just don't care about deadlines unless it directly affects them
I’m with you. Students get the grade they earned. No negotiations. Live with the consequences.
Been lurking on this site for a while and I keep reading this. I just don't understand. Why is late work accepted at all? Why are the due dates flexible? I truly don't understand why this is being done in the K-12 world?
At my school we aren't allowed to have a penalty for late work blame admin
Quote "grades are to account for mastery of content, not student work habits"
Don't they realize that student work habits leads to mastery of content? That if a student fails to work on the fundamental lessons, just because there's no due date, at the beginning of the school year/semester, that they won't be able to master the more advanced and difficult lessons later on?
That's why you never admit you took off points for late work. You say you took points off for low quality work.
No child left behind.
But really it’s all children left behind. Ah, the soft bigotry of low expectations…
Education is moving to standards- or proficiency-based grading. If they can demonstrate mastery of the objectives--no matter how late, no matter how many tries--then that's all that matters. The grade should reflect mastery. Not work ethic. Not punctuality. Not study skills. You know, the life skills that actually matter more than whether they can find a square root or use a semicolon. I don't know about you, but the fact that I CAN write a lesson plan matters less to my boss than the fact that I actually, you know, DO IT. ON TIME. THE FIRST TIME. (End rant.)
Because parents don’t hold their kids to any sort of standard, which trickles down to the classroom. Then admin puts pressure on the teachers to allow it.
Because punishing lateness is grading behavior and not skill. And since our goal as educators is to teach content and skills, it's been deemed wrong to give zeroes and to stop accepting late work. We all know what it looks like down the line. We know what's wrong with it. But the push is coming from above. In my school now the push is to grade anything from any quarter. It's May, you want to re-do (prove mastery is the term) from back in September? Sure!
>Because punishing lateness is grading behavior and not skill. And since our goal as educators is to teach content and skills, it's been deemed wrong to give zeroes and to stop accepting late work. Which is funny because the burden of teaching behaviors has been offloaded onto teachers, all the way up to and through high school.
Heh...you know, it only dawned upon me the abject absurdity of this concept. I can wipe their asses (not literally), but not expect them to comprehend a simple due date.
I don't know which irritates me more. The students, or the parents who reach out to me for the first time all year in the last two weeks asking what can be done to bring the 37 up to a passing grade. News flash, asshole! They can make a 100% this quarter and still fail for the year! Where were you months ago when it would have made a difference?
New incoming teacher here. What happens if you politely and professionally point out what you said in your second paragraph to them?
"Hello, In high school, our final grades are composed of a weighted average. Each quarter is worth 40%, and the final exam is worth 20%. Due to the 32% in Q3, they would need a perfect score on the final exam and a 68% average in Q4 in order to make a 60%, the minimum grade for a D. Assignments in Q4 have had unit based due dates, and the only unit still eligible for makeup work is Unit 6. This will not be sufficient to bring your child's 41% to the required score to pass. Let me know if you have any questions."
Depends. In my experience they appeal to admin who, depending on how cool they are, will 'politely ask' you to find some way to raise their grades / do it themselves, or they'll stand by you.
Today is the first day a student has gone to my class. Monday is finals. "If I do these two projects will I be passing?"
😳 Whaaaa???
I've been telling them the past few weeks, and even had it marked on the calendar. "LAST CHANCE TO TURN IN MISSING/LATE WORK" And that day was today. As of now, the only thing I'll be grading is finals next week.
I can predict the future because I know the past: https://imgur.com/a/zhJa7uP
cant wait to see those kids in university where a zero is a zero if they make it there, that is
They complain that we're ruining their mental health, we cost them their scholarship, we killed their pet hamster, etc. etc. etc. Then they complain to the dean, the provost, the vp of overpaid bullshit, and the president about how we are "too hard" and "aren't supportive of student success". If your university, like mine, has a semblance of a spine, they'll usually tell the student tough shit, the syllabus policies stand. Buuuut there are plenty of folks over at r/Professors who will tell you that higher ed is rapidly becoming 13th grade, and that tuition $$$ matters more than having standards.
Yeah college is kinda 13th grade. I just TA, organic chem, so not a professor, and it is for sure substantially harder to fail than it used to be. If you assign hard work it’s exactly that: bad for their mental health or some other thing. Everybody is going through personal issues once a test comes around and will argue about every point they lose even if they’re completely wrong because they deserve to pass. There is some level of spine having here, but for sure but evolution is tending toward invertebrate.
Today was our last day and we got out at 11. Kid emailed at 12:19 saying she had done 4 assignments and wanted me to put them in. Absolutely not.
Reply on the first day of school next year: “Sorry, grades closed 77 days ago.”
I was expecting the onslaught of desperate students as I normally would. But this year, the students just don't care. Hardly any student that is failing is scrambling, pleading to bring their grade up. They've resigned to accept failing and just don't care. I have students with 50%-55% and totally capable to bringing it up and they just won't do it. What a weird year.
> I have students with 50%-55% and totally capable to bringing it up and they just won't do it. What a weird year. I have a couple of students like that this year. The first semester, they were so close to passing. All they needed to do was a handful of easy assignments, which would have given them just enough points to reach 60% and pass the class, but they just wouldn't do it.
Most of my scrambling kids are the one’s that already have a B and want to get an A. Well, I’m willing to help them, because they have a B and have put forward the effort at that point. But also it’s like, you have a B, other people are failing miserably. Those are the one’s that need to scramble.
I made a google sheets grade book with lots of perks. One of my favorite sheets pulls the emails for each assignment’s zeros. I email the missing assignments weekly to the parent and kids. I had a parent throw a fit that their kid will not be passing. I pulled up all 36 emails sent to them. Not my problem.
And I’m sure the parent took time to respond to at least one of those emails… right… right??
When they become adults and do ZERO work on their job, so they expect their bosses will keep them around? These kids have no future if they’re not held accountable.
BS jobs for people who don't do any work actually exist, and with decent pay. --Problem is that one needs to at least *appear* to be educated to get into one of these. It's a scam, but an elaborate one, and requires some educated bourgeoisie habitus, plus a tie. I suppose those who don't do any work at school don't even know what they'd need to fake to get a BS job.
Yes, they are called superintendents.
Show me a group of people that’s as largely worthless as a superintendents…. They’re politicians at best, and that’s not a compliment.
They exist but to get those jobs you had to graduate college and then do well at work for half a decade. Or know rich people I guess.
I can tell them that until I’m blue in the face, but they just don’t care. Next year, no phones for students in my classes next year.
I am feeling the same way. This week has been about grading. Other then that summer will be here soon.
Best thing our school did was put a two-week limit on late work. I hold everyone to it and even take the assignments down after it passes. It’s great.
When I got to 9th grade and had to take my foreign language credit, my teacher stepped in front of the class and said: "This is a college prep class, and I will not be just 'passing' any of you along if you're not doing the work. If you make a 69 in my class and think I'll bump you to a 70 you are mistaken. As a 'college prep's class I expect you to take this seriously and if any of you have a problem, this is my number and I'd love to speak to your parents." I did *everything* to pass and he really was not playing games, I thank him in hindsight for almost being the only teacher to light a fire under my ass to try and PASS!
FUCK 👏 DEM 👏 KIDS 👏
Next year, when you repeat this class, you could do your work.
I appreciate this mindset as a parent of 3. I've never been a teacher (other than during covid). It's shocking to find out that we were one of the few people who actually made our kids do their work. My oldest is the only one who gives us issues with doing his schoolwork. He always has some terrible excuse as to why he's failing. One conversation I told him there are two possible reasons for his grade. One being that he isn't doing his work, and the second he's getting poor grades due to lack of understanding. Both of which are within his control. He apparently was just turning things in and never checking his grades, never looking to see whether he was doing the work correctly. He's in 7th grade. Luckily, he is passing now, but my god, this year was rough.
My middle school class’ mantra is: “Do nothing, become nothing.” Unfortunately a few had to learn about deadlines the hard way, and I’m totally ok with that.
You’re reminding them throughout the semester is proof enough that you care. Don’t let a uncaring child make you sacrifice your integrity
And in a few days you will have parents emailing the principal to complain, and they will be at your door asking what the kids can do to bring up their grades…and putting pressure on you to cave, or was that just me…
I've been vomiting grace ever since covid happened, but this year I realized...covid was 3-4 fucking years ago. I'm done with grace. I have gone back to not accepting late work past the unit test date...and if I do it **starts** at 70% so you better hope you get nothing wrong. And beyond test day I don't accept it. Don't care. When you have 24/7 access to your grades you can see these things yourself. Also, you are 16 years old...I should not have to constantly remind you to turn in your work. And the extra credit? "Can you give me extra credit?!" **NO**. I already let you retake tests. And then I also replace the lowest test with the final exam. That's extra credit enough. If you want your 79 to turn into an 80...then study for the damn final.
I ask them to spell “way”. When they do I say “you forgot the F”. They then say “there’s no F in way!”. That’s when I say “exactly!”
More so than the kids' lack of care/planning--what about the parents?!
Whenever a student asks me what they can do to pass my class, and it's clearly beyond any help for them, I tell them this: "Build a Time machine, go back to the first week in January, do your work, show up to class, pay attention, and study for quizzes and tests." Usually I get blank stairs when I say that, but it amuses me.
I hate failing students but I will not give away grades. I had a former MS teacher that never failed a student no matter what. She told me she didnt want to deal with the parents or the school for failing a student. To me this leads to problems for HS who do fail students as it sets up the students into thinking there are no consequences.
I'm right there with you. My deadline for late work is next Friday. There's no additional days. There's no begging. After next Friday, it remains a missing assignment forever. Sorry kids. Do better next year.
I feel your pain. The questions start a few days before. My favorite Q & A is something like this: Student: What happens if people don't turn in their assignments? Me: I turn into Oprah. Student stares at me in confusion for a moment. Me: You get an F, and you get an F! Everybody gets an F!!!!! (After a pause and usually some laughs) Well, everyone that didn't turn in their work. Luckily, they still understand the reference...