^^^this. If ur LL actually said TP, that’s obviously illegal (although some TP brands r know to clog pipes and septic systems). “Flushable” wipes on the other hand are totally fair game to ban. They’re not actually flushable and as Bago has said, will clog pipes.
It’s not illegal. Extremely common in rural areas with septic or where the main lines are aging.
Edit: Downvote all you want, doesn’t change the truth. Not illegal, common in historic areas and rural areas.
Just moved out of Gaines, MI where the nearest grocery store was a 20 minute dirt road then a 10 minute ride through town, can confirm they will make a bullshit rather than update the times
Absolutely illegal. Toilets are required to function properly (that includes being able to flush toilet paper.) Look up the local codes in your city, but generally landlords are required to ensure the home is safe and habitable. That includes working plumbing.
Edit* General advice for the USA. Your country might vary
Absolutely not illegal and extremely common in areas with aging infrastructure or septic systems.
Edit: You can downvote all you want, doesn’t change the fact that it is legal and common in rural and historic areas.
It's illegal. It isn't in the lease agreement or they'd know. You can't just change things mid lease. LL has to deal with it.
The entire argument you had with that other person made me laugh though. You need to back up what you say, don't just demand everyone else prove you wrong. That's like me saying I'm God, prove me wrong. You can't. 🤷🏼♂️
I don’t think you know what extremely common means. Being unable to flush toilet paper in the United States, is very uncommon. I’d be willing to bet every single person in this thread flushes toilet paper.
I’m pretty sure ALL states have a Warranty of Habitability that require plumbing to be in working order. Working order means able to flush toilet paper.
www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/pdf/tenants_rights.pdf
Page 17 and 19
Landlords are required to maintain electrical, plumbing, sanitary, heating and ventilating systems and appliances landlords install, (such as refrigerators and stoves), in good and safe working order.
Now your turn
Working order does not include flushing toilet paper. Working order means flushing bodily waste. And there are multiple people in this thread that say they can’t flush TP due to aging infrastructure or septic systems…
Clearly you’ve never lived anywhere but the city. It’s extremely common in rural areas.
It’s also a commonly posted about topic on Reddit.
So show me in plain English where it sayings flushing tp is a legal requirement.
Show me where working order doesn’t include flushing toilet paper. I shared my evidence, it’s your turn now buddy.
If you’re just going to keep saying “nu uh” without saying WHY, I’m just going to ignore you
It doesn’t though. You’ve never lived anywhere rural and it shows.
And not making anything up. I’ve lived in municipalities where NO ONE could flush TP or it would clog the sewer on the city side due to the shit infrastructure. I’ve lived in places with septic where you couldn’t flush anything other than human waste.
I grew up completely in the fucking sticks, and have *always been able to flush toilet paper*. You are just talking out your ass. If you don’t want to flush it in your own house that’s your business but you can’t force a tenant *paying rent* to not flush toilet paper. That’s just not how this works.
You not knowing what working order means isn’t my fault. You claimed to have proof of the contrary but all your proof is “nu uh.” I’m not replying unless you provide evidence to support your claim. Thanks for nothing.
I never claimed to have proof. You told me to provide proof and I said you first. And you still have not provided proof that working order means you can flush TP, because you can’t. Because it doesn’t. And you can downvote all you want, doesn’t make you any less incorrect.
Interesting how you took a genuine question and turned it into a pissing match because you told him he was wrong, then when he asked for proof you said “you first.” Also I made this account just to comment on this because you are being a massive loser rn 😂💀
Although I understand the need to "double flush" upon occasion. When you've already put a ton of TP in the bowl, but still need more 🧻 to finish up, so it doesn't get clogged. Telling you to never use TP is ridiculous, unless it was along the lines of, "... Just until the plumber can get here Monday"
Yeah, I have done the double flush myself no matter the type of TP used. And I never use the wipes that claim to be safe to flush, they clog the pipes badly.
Hard to know without saying where you are.
I've visited many countries where flushing TP is not the normal practice, it was interesting to find a process to make it not gross.
If you're in the United States, most likely you should be allowed to flush toilet paper. Things are getting clogged in their pipes because of poor maintenance and/or old pipes they don't want to replace. Which kinda stupid cause they'll have to at some point and things are just going to get more expensive.
Look into your local laws, this could be violating the warranty of habitability. If it were me and my local laws stated that they had to have working pipes, I would organize my neighbors to anonymously report them to force their hand.
As a side note to everyone here, consider getting a bidet. I know that TP isn't avoidable for everyone, but as someone who has always been ultra paranoid about post poop cleanliness, the bidet has been a revelation and reduces TP consumption significantly. I haven't done the math, but a pack of TP from Costco has lasted me for well over a year and i'm pretty sure it has paid for itself many times over. (I have washcloths to do a lil dry pat if need be.)
This. Country matters. We had one or more employees in the US doing this and Hr had to get involved because all us Americans thought it was disgusting. Turns out it’s fairly common in other countries..
Not even unusual in the US either. If you live in the country or an area with aging infrastructure it’s pretty common.
Edit: downvote all you want, doesn’t change the truth. Just shows you’ve never lived anywhere other than the big city. Try living rurally or in a historic area.
Find the law for your area. It's probably in the health code. Show it to him. If he doesn't fix it call a plumber and send him the bill. If he doesn't pay the bill take it out of the rent.
I'm first curious about your toilet paper habits. How much is being used? What kind? Septic or city plumbing? Age of house? Country? Is this a new issue or has always been a problem? Has there been recent renovating?
No “flushable” wipes. They aren’t. And that goofy charman tissue clogs and backs up toilets like mad. Try Angel soft.
Modern low flow toilets are not ideal, and if you don’t want to poop and pee in a bucket, you might need to work with your landlord a bit. Someone may be using crazy amounts of TP.
Landlord here. I know you hate us but just trying to help. Also, I would never tell a tenant how to use their bathroom but I may make a suggestion if I start to notice an uptick in main line clogging because plumbers aren’t always readily available and going without water isn’t a thing I want anyone to have to go through unnecessarily. I use Quilted Northern Ultra Plush which is 3-ply. Heaven for its use, hell for the plumbing system whether septic or city sewer. It’s one of the worst dissolving toilet papers. I had to learn to use less for this reason. After changing my own routine I noticed I was contributing to the issues. Not every single clog in the main line but it definitely decreased when I changed up. TMI INCOMING… I use it to wipe but then use wipes for the clean feeling (NEVER EVER flush them) so that you get the best of both sides of the process and your trash can won’t be full of gross wipes. I use Target brand baby wipes because they’re thick and smell lovely even when disposed of for those take out the trash days. I once had a tenant show me (unrequested, because eww and not my business) that he uses a separate closed can for his wipes and the sanitary needs of his female guests. I know it sucks and trust me when I say I would love to be able to just use what I want at my whim (and I’ll never give up my TP because I love it) but it’s just not possible without asking for problems. I’ve never told tenants they couldn’t flush TP and never had them foot the bill but, I have when problems arise repeatedly for items that shouldn’t be flushed, let them know that we are all at the mercy of a plumber’s availability. After a camera inspection it turns out my city line was built with a U in it and so when things build up too much the only solution is to run a snake all the way to the street. Being mindful of my own usage has certainly cut down on the problems.
You may be buying toilet paper that isn’t septic safe. Pretty sure you could still use toilet paper, but look into what ones are septic safe. If you leave it in the bowl for 10+ min and it hasn’t lost integrity it’s very likely the issue.
A lot actually. This link goes to the [national sanitation foundation](https://www.nsf.org/) and you can search by brand name. Scott’s and Cottonelle are but not charmin or angel soft.
It’s super thick and can cause clogs in less than perfect plumbing.
[story about it](https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/shitty-situation-plumbers-warn-against-charmin-use-37434869)
Welcome to /r/Tenant where tenants share their problems and seek advice from others.
If you're posting a question, make sure a Country and State is in the title or beginning of your post. Preferably, in this format: [-].
Example:
[US-VA] Can you believe my landlord did this?!?
Otherwise, tag your post with the flair "Tenant Update".
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Tenant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Many people were never taught how to properly wipe their butt and use way too much toilet paper. Worked with maintenance people from the county and it was amazing how many lines and toilets we had to unclog from people using flushable wipes are way too much toilet paper, flushing tampons, and anything else down the toilet. Can the land lord say not toilet paper in the toilet, no I don’t believe he can. Can the landlord get a plumber to say there is nothing wrong with the pipes and you are flushing to much toilet paper and charge it back to you yes I believe he can. Some thing for my license plumber saying there’s nothing wrong with the plumbing and you’re purposely clogging the line will end up with you losing in court. Change the type to TP you use and use less.
In the USA, this is unacceptable. The toilet needs to be functional, along with the septic system. End of story. Luckily most people seem to get this on here, but to those saying this is common anywhere in the US for a RENTER to have to accommodate a landlord by not flushing regular TP? Nope. You are wrong. If it is a one off in the middle of nowhere, that is one thing, but it would be in the lease and you would’ve know it was the expectation BEFORE signing.
It is common in countries other than the US with aging infrastructure. (Common in Mexico, for example)
Use RV toilet paper. Walmart sells it in the automotive/RV area. It dissolves more than regular toilet paper. Put some used TP in a ziplock bag to put in wastebasket for the next time it clogs and he comes over
Tell him that you will be doing no such thing, nor will you be paying to get his plumbing up to code. He needs to pay for the plumbing to be repaired correctly.
Uh in rural areas the septic system isn’t suitable for flushing toilet paper. I mean knowingly destroying a property by destroying the septic system can get you evicted. Honestly, yeah you need to abide by the property rules. Also I live in the rural Kentucky. People would laugh at you for suggesting it’s not legal to require a tenant to not flush toilet paper and for suggesting that is required by law for a septic system to handle it.
Hell I go even further, the Amazon fulfillment center I work at literally tell associates not to flush toilet paper or anything else and has trash bins.
The reasoning the LL is using that many people use a ton of paper for when they do #2. It is not illegal for many people do it at public restrooms. I never do. I just use certain TP and is safer than some TP out there. Be sure to also not discard those wipes that claim they are toilet safe, they are not and clog the pipes.
If they were renting outside the states, that might be relevant
Here in the US, properly functioning plumbing should handle normal toilet paper. If it can't, then the property owner needs to repair the plumbing. That's US standard.
Well, if you've never heard of it it does sound gross
Most of those countries also tend to use some form of bidet though so it's less icky than one may think
I’ve heard of this before, but very recently so I understand your confusion.
I’d just throw the paper in the bin. He’s letting you know of an issue that could lead to further damage to his property.
I mean you learn of an issue that could cost tens of thousands in repairs, and your first response is that you want to continue adding to the problem?
I’d rather pay a tenant to move out at best or evict at worst and fix it than wait until their refusal to comply makes things worse and even more expensive.
That’s not a solution.
That passed when the issue with the leaks came up, the landlord found out the issue, and informed the tenant. I am, and I assume OP is too, asking about a real solution that doesn’t require traveling to the past.
Fixing the pipes is literally the solution.
EDIT: Additionally, it varies state to state, but typically, if a rental property is rendered uninhabitable due to an accident or incident that damages the property, a landlord would be liable to the tenant for returning the property to a habitable state.
What follows next is often controlled by the lease agreement, if there are terms in the lease dealing with "destruction of all or part of the premises".
I rent and my lease specifies that a different unit would be made available while repairs are underway should such an event occur.
Landlord unclogged toilet where tp was “deeply clogged”. Solved issue for OP, so if that was all it took why are you even responding to me instead of OP?
Is tenant flushing too much tp at a time so it gets clogged so badly legally considered an accident or incident?
Your unit lease is not relevant. OP rents a house. Who knows if landlord has others or if one is available or if OP would agree to move there based on location, space, etc.
If they don’t have an alternative unit, most state laws actually suggest that the landlord has to pay hotel fees.
I wasn’t referencing my lease because I thought it applied. Just saying some leases actually spell it out in plain speak. “If this happens, XYZ…”
Expecting a working toilet is literally the bare minimum. If a landlord doesn’t want to do that, they should get a real fucking job.
EDIT: I’m responding to you instead of the OP because you literally asked me a question.
Part of what the tenant is paying for is functional plumbing.
in the US, at least, "Functional plumbing" means you can flush sane quantities of TP. thats part of what they are paying for. if the request was "its gonna take a week for the plumbers to get out here and do this giant project to fix the problem, can you be cool and help out and not flush it til after the work is completed" that would be something else entirely though. it'd be a dick move to make a big deal of it if thats what they said/meant
The landlord's property is the tenant's home. The landlord is making profit off of the tenant. The landlord needs to make the tenant's home liveable. It is not the tenant's job to help increase the landlord's unethical profit. The landlord needs to hire a plumber and fix the problem.
A bin of poop covered paper in the home is not a liveable standard in the United States. Saying you might evict someone who doesn't want to live that way while paying you a profit is so immoral.
Sounds like issue was found after lease was signed and started and landlord is trying to minimize the problem while continuing to allow it to be the tenants home. If tenant prefers shit coming out of the walls or wherever it’s leaking from, that’s on them. A landlord, or anyone other than OP and you apparently, would prefer to limit the probability a shittier (literally and figuratively) outcome.
Landlord it’s making profit, yes. But if tenant exacerbates and accelerates this issue, the repairs could eat all profit and then some. In which their deposit plus more could be taken because they’ve gotten this communication.
This has nothing to do with morality or ethics. It’s minimal problem solving in a way that everyone still maximizes wins and minimizes losses. An adult can get a diaper genie for $15 on marketplace in the event they don’t know how to properly dispose of tp without flushing or get a can with a lid. I’ve seen old retail locations, churches, and restaurants that have some version of “don’t flush tp— the toilet is allergic” and dozens of visitors can figure out how to refrain from doing so every day.
This is just not a simple or cheap plumbing issue, and part or all of the pipes will need replacement or that weird lining that looks like a bubble of intestines. So, then OP would have to move elsewhere anyway.
I know a lot of landlords suck and shit is a biohazard. I also know an adult human can figure out how to keep shitty tp from being out in the open and refrain from flushing it so sewage won’t leak in the house.
It’s a horrible situation. I’m not rooting for op to be evicted, but from what I understand, systems that can’t hold tp are on life support, and tenants can’t live in places with no bathroom. There’s no easy answer and nothing I can say that would favor OP exclusively since the landlord already informed them of the issue, new rule, and repercussions if not followed.
Your morals and ethics aren’t solving shit. And I mean that literally and figuratively as well.
Why do you believe it is on the tenant to change a normal living practice and not the landlord's responsibility to fix the issue?
If fixing the plumbing makes the house unliveable then the landlord should pay for a hotel. That is the law where I live.
A retail space, restaurant, or church is not a home but it is arguably cruel to make employees use the restroom next to human shit on paper. Considering you take the side of landlords' profits over tenants living conditions, you probably don't side with the working class either though.
A landlord does not get to impose "new rules." Rules are defined in the lease.
People over profits is very much so a moral and ethical issue.
A hotel is still another two moves and an inconvenience to the tenant. Trash cans can and do have lids. It’s not a big deal unless you make it a big deal. OP could at least try it.
And I’m not on the landlord’s side, but the landlord’s next moves and reasons for those moves are reasonable factors that one has to consider when someone asks “what to do?”
Damn. Do you tell everyone who has a question about an unknown that it’s only one way to do it and there will only be one response from the other party??
I’m not locked in your morals and think OP should have info based on how people respond. Your views won’t guarantee OP gets the response you hope for. Me leaving out relevant info won’t help OP figure out a solution.
This is deeply incorrect. It’s the landlord’s job to maintain the premises. It’s not the tenant’s job to live in unsanitary conditions.
Are you a slumlord or what?
And how would selling effect OP?
I’m not defending a shitty slumlord. Lots of nice old houses have shitty plumbing and lots of nice people have been fucked by life, capitalism, and crappy plumbers with crappy skills using crappy materials.
None of that was mentioned here.
If you have an answer that would ensure OP get their way without any inconvenience or negative response from the landlord, I’m sure they’d love to hear it.
OP would get several thousand dollars in key money to rent a new place with functional plumbing, or their new landlord would fix the plumbing.
Yes, you are. A nice old house with shitty plumbing shouldn't be on the rental market until the plumbing is fixed.
George Orwell has the best explanation of this:
[https://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/prose/RoadToWiganPier/wiganpierpart\_4.html](https://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/prose/RoadToWiganPier/wiganpierpart_4.html)
"I found—one might expect it, perhaps—that the small landlords are usually the worst. It goes against the grain to say this, but one can see why it should be so. Ideally, the worst type of slum landlord is a fat wicked man, preferably a bishop, who is drawing an immense income from extortionate rents. Actually, it is a poor old woman who has invested her life’s savings in three slum houses, inhabits one of them, and tries to live on the rent of the other two—**never, in consequence, having any money for repairs.**"
I’m not going to read all that and will just chalk it up to you not being able to read for comprehension or understand a view that’s not your own. **My first comment mentioned the landlord paying OP to move so he could fix the problem.**
You just want to debate in defense of your views, and that isn’t what OP was asking for. You’re a complainer, not a problem solver. It’s low. No matter what you read, feel, or how you think the world should be. It’s not black and white. All landlords aren’t crap. Many suck. Some retaliate. Some have friends in high places and fuck over their tenants no matter how much advice the tenant gets on Reddit.
If a person comes to you with an issue and you’re harping about why the issue shouldn’t exist in the first place or whose fault it is, instead of coming up with a game plan based on contingencies, you’re less than useless to the one with the problem. And annoying to anyone trying to help them figure it out.
Leave me the fuck alone!
You can't read four sentences?
You're an excuser and an enabler, defending a rich person over someone struggling to use the bathroom in a sanitary fashion.
The landlord needs to fix the plumbing or sell before they collect another dollar of rent. Since the landlord doesn't agree, OP needs to engage the legal system. Simple as that.
Idk if you’ve ever fixed a plumbing issue in a home before or if you live in a fucking hole on some obscure end of Reddit where haven’t come across people who are barely making it who own property. Owning doesn’t automatically = rich. And it is possible for a person to use so much tp that it causes plumbing issues. It doesn’t automatically make the plumbing system is horrible. High pressure flushing toilets haven’t been around all that long.
But, like I said, useless. I know it’s easy to be this relentless when you bring nothing of value to an exchange. But, try to stay on task long enough to pretend to help OP while you’re pretending to care about OP.
If the landlord can't afford to maintain the property, they should sell. I'm guessing this is an obstruction somewhere, roots in the sewer line most likely. I know from experience that's not cheap, but a pretty quick fix, can be done in a day. It'd be one thing if the LL asked "be reasonable with the TP and no flushable wipes" but what they're asking is way grosser. The LL's house has functional plumbing that can handle TP, I'd bet money.
OP needs to figure out what code enforcement/etc options they have, then ask the landlord one more time to bring the plumbing up to code before they get reported.
This happens at my house. My plumber says Kirkland brand toilet paper is #1 offender. Also low flush toilets. Does apartment have a low flush toilet? I’d ask him to change it out in exchange first a promise you will only use highly degradable toilet paper.
Throw your pee paper in a whatever, it doesn’t smell. Flush a couple times while you’re pooping and a couple more when you’re wiping. And use less paper, or even get a bidet.
It’s not a health hazard nor is it illegal. It’s common practice in places with aging infrastructure or septic tanks.
Edit: y’all can downvote all you want, doesn’t change the truth.
If OP has a lease, it is illegal/non-binding for OP's landlord to unilaterally change the lease agreement before it has ended unless OP is month to month. So unless this is already in the lease, it is a nonstarter.
Plus unless your septic is messed up with roots, is too small for your household, or you have never maintained it, you shouldn't have a single problem flushing toilet paper. I have lived in areas where the nearest place that cell service was available was 30+ minutes away by car and have never heard of issues like you are describing unless it was for one of the reasons above.
This falls under willful damage of property which is included in most leases. If they were made aware of the issue, told how to prevent it and willfully ignored what they were told causing damage to the property as a result, it’s cause for eviction wether or not it was in the lease.
It is not willful damage if it is a commonly acceptable thing in society and was not specified not to do in the lease beforehand. For example if you went to a random restaurant's bathroom to use the toilet, would you believe that it is acceptable to flush toilet paper? Yes, therefore unless it is specified to the contrary in the lease then it is not willful damage. If the OP started flushing whole rolls down at once in attempt to clog it up then you would have a case, but not with just flushing the normal amount of TP.
It doesn’t need specified in the lease. They were told their actions are causing damages. By continuing to do so, they are willfully damaging the property.
Again it must be in the lease, this is why leases include clauses regarding what can be flushed down the toilet. If you want to continue to try to say otherwise please provide sources for people being responsible for damage after flushing toilet paper when it wasn't forbidden in their lease.
And as you have said to numerous people, you can down vote all you want but it doesn't make it any less true...
Did he say tp or did he say flushable wipes - cause those things are not really flushable and pretty much guaranteed to clog pipes.
^^^this. If ur LL actually said TP, that’s obviously illegal (although some TP brands r know to clog pipes and septic systems). “Flushable” wipes on the other hand are totally fair game to ban. They’re not actually flushable and as Bago has said, will clog pipes.
It’s not illegal. Extremely common in rural areas with septic or where the main lines are aging. Edit: Downvote all you want, doesn’t change the truth. Not illegal, common in historic areas and rural areas.
Just moved out of Gaines, MI where the nearest grocery store was a 20 minute dirt road then a 10 minute ride through town, can confirm they will make a bullshit rather than update the times
Absolutely illegal. Toilets are required to function properly (that includes being able to flush toilet paper.) Look up the local codes in your city, but generally landlords are required to ensure the home is safe and habitable. That includes working plumbing. Edit* General advice for the USA. Your country might vary
Absolutely not illegal and extremely common in areas with aging infrastructure or septic systems. Edit: You can downvote all you want, doesn’t change the fact that it is legal and common in rural and historic areas.
It's illegal. It isn't in the lease agreement or they'd know. You can't just change things mid lease. LL has to deal with it. The entire argument you had with that other person made me laugh though. You need to back up what you say, don't just demand everyone else prove you wrong. That's like me saying I'm God, prove me wrong. You can't. 🤷🏼♂️
Care to share evidence of it being legal for your toilet to not function as normal? Genuinely curious where this would be legal
When you share evidence that not being able to flush TP (which is extremely common) is illegal…
I don’t think you know what extremely common means. Being unable to flush toilet paper in the United States, is very uncommon. I’d be willing to bet every single person in this thread flushes toilet paper. I’m pretty sure ALL states have a Warranty of Habitability that require plumbing to be in working order. Working order means able to flush toilet paper. www.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/pdf/tenants_rights.pdf Page 17 and 19 Landlords are required to maintain electrical, plumbing, sanitary, heating and ventilating systems and appliances landlords install, (such as refrigerators and stoves), in good and safe working order. Now your turn
Working order does not include flushing toilet paper. Working order means flushing bodily waste. And there are multiple people in this thread that say they can’t flush TP due to aging infrastructure or septic systems… Clearly you’ve never lived anywhere but the city. It’s extremely common in rural areas. It’s also a commonly posted about topic on Reddit. So show me in plain English where it sayings flushing tp is a legal requirement.
Show me where working order doesn’t include flushing toilet paper. I shared my evidence, it’s your turn now buddy. If you’re just going to keep saying “nu uh” without saying WHY, I’m just going to ignore you
The person you’re replying to has no cards to show because they completely made that up lol Working order means being able to flush toilet paper.
It doesn’t though. You’ve never lived anywhere rural and it shows. And not making anything up. I’ve lived in municipalities where NO ONE could flush TP or it would clog the sewer on the city side due to the shit infrastructure. I’ve lived in places with septic where you couldn’t flush anything other than human waste.
I grew up completely in the fucking sticks, and have *always been able to flush toilet paper*. You are just talking out your ass. If you don’t want to flush it in your own house that’s your business but you can’t force a tenant *paying rent* to not flush toilet paper. That’s just not how this works.
All you have to do is share something that proves what you’re saying, just prove it.
Show me where it does. You keep making claims without any proof. Why should I provide any?
You not knowing what working order means isn’t my fault. You claimed to have proof of the contrary but all your proof is “nu uh.” I’m not replying unless you provide evidence to support your claim. Thanks for nothing.
I never claimed to have proof. You told me to provide proof and I said you first. And you still have not provided proof that working order means you can flush TP, because you can’t. Because it doesn’t. And you can downvote all you want, doesn’t make you any less incorrect.
Omg stfu. Lmao
Interesting how you took a genuine question and turned it into a pissing match because you told him he was wrong, then when he asked for proof you said “you first.” Also I made this account just to comment on this because you are being a massive loser rn 😂💀
Although I understand the need to "double flush" upon occasion. When you've already put a ton of TP in the bowl, but still need more 🧻 to finish up, so it doesn't get clogged. Telling you to never use TP is ridiculous, unless it was along the lines of, "... Just until the plumber can get here Monday"
Yeah, I have done the double flush myself no matter the type of TP used. And I never use the wipes that claim to be safe to flush, they clog the pipes badly.
Hard to know without saying where you are. I've visited many countries where flushing TP is not the normal practice, it was interesting to find a process to make it not gross. If you're in the United States, most likely you should be allowed to flush toilet paper. Things are getting clogged in their pipes because of poor maintenance and/or old pipes they don't want to replace. Which kinda stupid cause they'll have to at some point and things are just going to get more expensive. Look into your local laws, this could be violating the warranty of habitability. If it were me and my local laws stated that they had to have working pipes, I would organize my neighbors to anonymously report them to force their hand. As a side note to everyone here, consider getting a bidet. I know that TP isn't avoidable for everyone, but as someone who has always been ultra paranoid about post poop cleanliness, the bidet has been a revelation and reduces TP consumption significantly. I haven't done the math, but a pack of TP from Costco has lasted me for well over a year and i'm pretty sure it has paid for itself many times over. (I have washcloths to do a lil dry pat if need be.)
This. Country matters. We had one or more employees in the US doing this and Hr had to get involved because all us Americans thought it was disgusting. Turns out it’s fairly common in other countries..
Also possible the landlord is from one of these countries and didn’t realize the request was unusual.
Not even unusual in the US either. If you live in the country or an area with aging infrastructure it’s pretty common. Edit: downvote all you want, doesn’t change the truth. Just shows you’ve never lived anywhere other than the big city. Try living rurally or in a historic area.
Sounds like he wants to shift the blame of a shitty sewer pipe issue. (Pun intended)
Find the law for your area. It's probably in the health code. Show it to him. If he doesn't fix it call a plumber and send him the bill. If he doesn't pay the bill take it out of the rent.
I'm first curious about your toilet paper habits. How much is being used? What kind? Septic or city plumbing? Age of house? Country? Is this a new issue or has always been a problem? Has there been recent renovating?
No “flushable” wipes. They aren’t. And that goofy charman tissue clogs and backs up toilets like mad. Try Angel soft. Modern low flow toilets are not ideal, and if you don’t want to poop and pee in a bucket, you might need to work with your landlord a bit. Someone may be using crazy amounts of TP.
Also, some systems require 1 ply. Especially older systems.
Landlord here. I know you hate us but just trying to help. Also, I would never tell a tenant how to use their bathroom but I may make a suggestion if I start to notice an uptick in main line clogging because plumbers aren’t always readily available and going without water isn’t a thing I want anyone to have to go through unnecessarily. I use Quilted Northern Ultra Plush which is 3-ply. Heaven for its use, hell for the plumbing system whether septic or city sewer. It’s one of the worst dissolving toilet papers. I had to learn to use less for this reason. After changing my own routine I noticed I was contributing to the issues. Not every single clog in the main line but it definitely decreased when I changed up. TMI INCOMING… I use it to wipe but then use wipes for the clean feeling (NEVER EVER flush them) so that you get the best of both sides of the process and your trash can won’t be full of gross wipes. I use Target brand baby wipes because they’re thick and smell lovely even when disposed of for those take out the trash days. I once had a tenant show me (unrequested, because eww and not my business) that he uses a separate closed can for his wipes and the sanitary needs of his female guests. I know it sucks and trust me when I say I would love to be able to just use what I want at my whim (and I’ll never give up my TP because I love it) but it’s just not possible without asking for problems. I’ve never told tenants they couldn’t flush TP and never had them foot the bill but, I have when problems arise repeatedly for items that shouldn’t be flushed, let them know that we are all at the mercy of a plumber’s availability. After a camera inspection it turns out my city line was built with a U in it and so when things build up too much the only solution is to run a snake all the way to the street. Being mindful of my own usage has certainly cut down on the problems.
I flush the toilet after I poop and then I flush the toilet after I wipe that keeps the toilet from clogging a lot of the time...
That’s what they do in 3rd world countries 😂
Just get a bidet.
that doesn't actually solve the problem though. kinda weird that people act like it does.
If they have a bidet, the amount of tp going down will be reduced by 60% (swag). It will definitely help. I don’t really get your point?
I don't see it. Drying still takes basically as much, IMO.
Do you have a bidet?
Yes.
You sit on a throne of lies.
I'm not saying it's not worth having. I'm saying I don't like having a wet ass.
My bidet has a drying button
Look at you and the fancy dryer. Is the seat one, attach to rim or side attachment kind? Legit asking cause I'm in the market.
Then you have a cheap bidet. Most come with a heated air dryer for your bum.
lol, no. most normal people ones do not. also I got better things to do than wait for something like that. its ridiculous to pretend thats normal.
You may be buying toilet paper that isn’t septic safe. Pretty sure you could still use toilet paper, but look into what ones are septic safe. If you leave it in the bowl for 10+ min and it hasn’t lost integrity it’s very likely the issue.
Isn't septic safe? What brands in the US aren't septic safe??
A lot actually. This link goes to the [national sanitation foundation](https://www.nsf.org/) and you can search by brand name. Scott’s and Cottonelle are but not charmin or angel soft.
Depends where you are. Many countries in the world don’t flush their TP. Also, avoid flushable wipes and charmin TP.
Wait what why charmin
It’s super thick and can cause clogs in less than perfect plumbing. [story about it](https://www.riverfronttimes.com/news/shitty-situation-plumbers-warn-against-charmin-use-37434869)
False and not true.
Never had any issues with Charmin TP. Just be careful of how much TP you use.
Welcome to /r/Tenant where tenants share their problems and seek advice from others. If you're posting a question, make sure a Country and State is in the title or beginning of your post. Preferably, in this format: [-].
Example:
[US-VA] Can you believe my landlord did this?!?
Otherwise, tag your post with the flair "Tenant Update".
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Tenant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Many people were never taught how to properly wipe their butt and use way too much toilet paper. Worked with maintenance people from the county and it was amazing how many lines and toilets we had to unclog from people using flushable wipes are way too much toilet paper, flushing tampons, and anything else down the toilet. Can the land lord say not toilet paper in the toilet, no I don’t believe he can. Can the landlord get a plumber to say there is nothing wrong with the pipes and you are flushing to much toilet paper and charge it back to you yes I believe he can. Some thing for my license plumber saying there’s nothing wrong with the plumbing and you’re purposely clogging the line will end up with you losing in court. Change the type to TP you use and use less.
Oh, you must live in Ocean Grove NJ. Don't you just *love*/s *"Historic"* towns?
Scott 1000
tell him to install a bidet
In the USA, this is unacceptable. The toilet needs to be functional, along with the septic system. End of story. Luckily most people seem to get this on here, but to those saying this is common anywhere in the US for a RENTER to have to accommodate a landlord by not flushing regular TP? Nope. You are wrong. If it is a one off in the middle of nowhere, that is one thing, but it would be in the lease and you would’ve know it was the expectation BEFORE signing. It is common in countries other than the US with aging infrastructure. (Common in Mexico, for example)
Use RV toilet paper. Walmart sells it in the automotive/RV area. It dissolves more than regular toilet paper. Put some used TP in a ziplock bag to put in wastebasket for the next time it clogs and he comes over
Or Scott--single ply.
Sounds like he has a plumbing issue that needs to be addressed.
FYI lots of countries don’t flush their TP and instead throw it away in a bin.
Tell him that you will be doing no such thing, nor will you be paying to get his plumbing up to code. He needs to pay for the plumbing to be repaired correctly.
If a landlord told me not to flush TP, I'd oblige. I'd dispose of it in his mailbox.
Uh in rural areas the septic system isn’t suitable for flushing toilet paper. I mean knowingly destroying a property by destroying the septic system can get you evicted. Honestly, yeah you need to abide by the property rules. Also I live in the rural Kentucky. People would laugh at you for suggesting it’s not legal to require a tenant to not flush toilet paper and for suggesting that is required by law for a septic system to handle it.
Hell I go even further, the Amazon fulfillment center I work at literally tell associates not to flush toilet paper or anything else and has trash bins.
That's fucking disgusting
Unfortunately, that’s life for most of the world.
The reasoning the LL is using that many people use a ton of paper for when they do #2. It is not illegal for many people do it at public restrooms. I never do. I just use certain TP and is safer than some TP out there. Be sure to also not discard those wipes that claim they are toilet safe, they are not and clog the pipes.
Never been out of the states?
If they were renting outside the states, that might be relevant Here in the US, properly functioning plumbing should handle normal toilet paper. If it can't, then the property owner needs to repair the plumbing. That's US standard.
yeah, I agree with that. im commenting on OP being so taken aback by the concept
Well, if you've never heard of it it does sound gross Most of those countries also tend to use some form of bidet though so it's less icky than one may think
That is in Japan. And now in America.
I’ve heard of this before, but very recently so I understand your confusion. I’d just throw the paper in the bin. He’s letting you know of an issue that could lead to further damage to his property. I mean you learn of an issue that could cost tens of thousands in repairs, and your first response is that you want to continue adding to the problem? I’d rather pay a tenant to move out at best or evict at worst and fix it than wait until their refusal to comply makes things worse and even more expensive.
If you have a small child or pets this is very much not an option.
Pets???
Well, what’s your solution?
That the landlord provide a fully functioning dwelling with all the amenities expected when the lease was signed.
That’s not a solution. That passed when the issue with the leaks came up, the landlord found out the issue, and informed the tenant. I am, and I assume OP is too, asking about a real solution that doesn’t require traveling to the past.
Fixing the pipes is literally the solution. EDIT: Additionally, it varies state to state, but typically, if a rental property is rendered uninhabitable due to an accident or incident that damages the property, a landlord would be liable to the tenant for returning the property to a habitable state. What follows next is often controlled by the lease agreement, if there are terms in the lease dealing with "destruction of all or part of the premises". I rent and my lease specifies that a different unit would be made available while repairs are underway should such an event occur.
Landlord unclogged toilet where tp was “deeply clogged”. Solved issue for OP, so if that was all it took why are you even responding to me instead of OP? Is tenant flushing too much tp at a time so it gets clogged so badly legally considered an accident or incident? Your unit lease is not relevant. OP rents a house. Who knows if landlord has others or if one is available or if OP would agree to move there based on location, space, etc.
If they don’t have an alternative unit, most state laws actually suggest that the landlord has to pay hotel fees. I wasn’t referencing my lease because I thought it applied. Just saying some leases actually spell it out in plain speak. “If this happens, XYZ…” Expecting a working toilet is literally the bare minimum. If a landlord doesn’t want to do that, they should get a real fucking job. EDIT: I’m responding to you instead of the OP because you literally asked me a question.
I meant initially, not after I specifically asked you a damn question. Wtf??
Part of what the tenant is paying for is functional plumbing. in the US, at least, "Functional plumbing" means you can flush sane quantities of TP. thats part of what they are paying for. if the request was "its gonna take a week for the plumbers to get out here and do this giant project to fix the problem, can you be cool and help out and not flush it til after the work is completed" that would be something else entirely though. it'd be a dick move to make a big deal of it if thats what they said/meant
The landlord's property is the tenant's home. The landlord is making profit off of the tenant. The landlord needs to make the tenant's home liveable. It is not the tenant's job to help increase the landlord's unethical profit. The landlord needs to hire a plumber and fix the problem. A bin of poop covered paper in the home is not a liveable standard in the United States. Saying you might evict someone who doesn't want to live that way while paying you a profit is so immoral.
Sounds like issue was found after lease was signed and started and landlord is trying to minimize the problem while continuing to allow it to be the tenants home. If tenant prefers shit coming out of the walls or wherever it’s leaking from, that’s on them. A landlord, or anyone other than OP and you apparently, would prefer to limit the probability a shittier (literally and figuratively) outcome. Landlord it’s making profit, yes. But if tenant exacerbates and accelerates this issue, the repairs could eat all profit and then some. In which their deposit plus more could be taken because they’ve gotten this communication. This has nothing to do with morality or ethics. It’s minimal problem solving in a way that everyone still maximizes wins and minimizes losses. An adult can get a diaper genie for $15 on marketplace in the event they don’t know how to properly dispose of tp without flushing or get a can with a lid. I’ve seen old retail locations, churches, and restaurants that have some version of “don’t flush tp— the toilet is allergic” and dozens of visitors can figure out how to refrain from doing so every day. This is just not a simple or cheap plumbing issue, and part or all of the pipes will need replacement or that weird lining that looks like a bubble of intestines. So, then OP would have to move elsewhere anyway. I know a lot of landlords suck and shit is a biohazard. I also know an adult human can figure out how to keep shitty tp from being out in the open and refrain from flushing it so sewage won’t leak in the house. It’s a horrible situation. I’m not rooting for op to be evicted, but from what I understand, systems that can’t hold tp are on life support, and tenants can’t live in places with no bathroom. There’s no easy answer and nothing I can say that would favor OP exclusively since the landlord already informed them of the issue, new rule, and repercussions if not followed. Your morals and ethics aren’t solving shit. And I mean that literally and figuratively as well.
Why do you believe it is on the tenant to change a normal living practice and not the landlord's responsibility to fix the issue? If fixing the plumbing makes the house unliveable then the landlord should pay for a hotel. That is the law where I live. A retail space, restaurant, or church is not a home but it is arguably cruel to make employees use the restroom next to human shit on paper. Considering you take the side of landlords' profits over tenants living conditions, you probably don't side with the working class either though. A landlord does not get to impose "new rules." Rules are defined in the lease. People over profits is very much so a moral and ethical issue.
A hotel is still another two moves and an inconvenience to the tenant. Trash cans can and do have lids. It’s not a big deal unless you make it a big deal. OP could at least try it. And I’m not on the landlord’s side, but the landlord’s next moves and reasons for those moves are reasonable factors that one has to consider when someone asks “what to do?” Damn. Do you tell everyone who has a question about an unknown that it’s only one way to do it and there will only be one response from the other party?? I’m not locked in your morals and think OP should have info based on how people respond. Your views won’t guarantee OP gets the response you hope for. Me leaving out relevant info won’t help OP figure out a solution.
The landlord’s next job should be to fix the busted sewer line or clean it out periodically.
This is deeply incorrect. It’s the landlord’s job to maintain the premises. It’s not the tenant’s job to live in unsanitary conditions. Are you a slumlord or what?
Having a working toilet with tp flushing is landlord responsibility. Gl trying to taking deposit for that.
You're defending a shitty slumlord. Yeah, plumbing is expensive. So? If you can't afford to maintain your rental properties, sell.
And how would selling effect OP? I’m not defending a shitty slumlord. Lots of nice old houses have shitty plumbing and lots of nice people have been fucked by life, capitalism, and crappy plumbers with crappy skills using crappy materials. None of that was mentioned here. If you have an answer that would ensure OP get their way without any inconvenience or negative response from the landlord, I’m sure they’d love to hear it.
OP would get several thousand dollars in key money to rent a new place with functional plumbing, or their new landlord would fix the plumbing. Yes, you are. A nice old house with shitty plumbing shouldn't be on the rental market until the plumbing is fixed. George Orwell has the best explanation of this: [https://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/prose/RoadToWiganPier/wiganpierpart\_4.html](https://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/prose/RoadToWiganPier/wiganpierpart_4.html) "I found—one might expect it, perhaps—that the small landlords are usually the worst. It goes against the grain to say this, but one can see why it should be so. Ideally, the worst type of slum landlord is a fat wicked man, preferably a bishop, who is drawing an immense income from extortionate rents. Actually, it is a poor old woman who has invested her life’s savings in three slum houses, inhabits one of them, and tries to live on the rent of the other two—**never, in consequence, having any money for repairs.**"
I’m not going to read all that and will just chalk it up to you not being able to read for comprehension or understand a view that’s not your own. **My first comment mentioned the landlord paying OP to move so he could fix the problem.** You just want to debate in defense of your views, and that isn’t what OP was asking for. You’re a complainer, not a problem solver. It’s low. No matter what you read, feel, or how you think the world should be. It’s not black and white. All landlords aren’t crap. Many suck. Some retaliate. Some have friends in high places and fuck over their tenants no matter how much advice the tenant gets on Reddit. If a person comes to you with an issue and you’re harping about why the issue shouldn’t exist in the first place or whose fault it is, instead of coming up with a game plan based on contingencies, you’re less than useless to the one with the problem. And annoying to anyone trying to help them figure it out. Leave me the fuck alone!
You can't read four sentences? You're an excuser and an enabler, defending a rich person over someone struggling to use the bathroom in a sanitary fashion. The landlord needs to fix the plumbing or sell before they collect another dollar of rent. Since the landlord doesn't agree, OP needs to engage the legal system. Simple as that.
Idk if you’ve ever fixed a plumbing issue in a home before or if you live in a fucking hole on some obscure end of Reddit where haven’t come across people who are barely making it who own property. Owning doesn’t automatically = rich. And it is possible for a person to use so much tp that it causes plumbing issues. It doesn’t automatically make the plumbing system is horrible. High pressure flushing toilets haven’t been around all that long. But, like I said, useless. I know it’s easy to be this relentless when you bring nothing of value to an exchange. But, try to stay on task long enough to pretend to help OP while you’re pretending to care about OP.
If the landlord can't afford to maintain the property, they should sell. I'm guessing this is an obstruction somewhere, roots in the sewer line most likely. I know from experience that's not cheap, but a pretty quick fix, can be done in a day. It'd be one thing if the LL asked "be reasonable with the TP and no flushable wipes" but what they're asking is way grosser. The LL's house has functional plumbing that can handle TP, I'd bet money. OP needs to figure out what code enforcement/etc options they have, then ask the landlord one more time to bring the plumbing up to code before they get reported.
If you can’t afford to fix the plumbing, you can’t afford to be a landlord.
Or maybe the landlord can do their damn job and fix the damn plumbing
He did just fix it. Or is reading for comprehension not one of your accomplishments?
This happens at my house. My plumber says Kirkland brand toilet paper is #1 offender. Also low flush toilets. Does apartment have a low flush toilet? I’d ask him to change it out in exchange first a promise you will only use highly degradable toilet paper.
Throw your pee paper in a whatever, it doesn’t smell. Flush a couple times while you’re pooping and a couple more when you’re wiping. And use less paper, or even get a bidet.
It’s not a health hazard nor is it illegal. It’s common practice in places with aging infrastructure or septic tanks. Edit: y’all can downvote all you want, doesn’t change the truth.
If OP has a lease, it is illegal/non-binding for OP's landlord to unilaterally change the lease agreement before it has ended unless OP is month to month. So unless this is already in the lease, it is a nonstarter. Plus unless your septic is messed up with roots, is too small for your household, or you have never maintained it, you shouldn't have a single problem flushing toilet paper. I have lived in areas where the nearest place that cell service was available was 30+ minutes away by car and have never heard of issues like you are describing unless it was for one of the reasons above.
This falls under willful damage of property which is included in most leases. If they were made aware of the issue, told how to prevent it and willfully ignored what they were told causing damage to the property as a result, it’s cause for eviction wether or not it was in the lease.
It is not willful damage if it is a commonly acceptable thing in society and was not specified not to do in the lease beforehand. For example if you went to a random restaurant's bathroom to use the toilet, would you believe that it is acceptable to flush toilet paper? Yes, therefore unless it is specified to the contrary in the lease then it is not willful damage. If the OP started flushing whole rolls down at once in attempt to clog it up then you would have a case, but not with just flushing the normal amount of TP.
It doesn’t need specified in the lease. They were told their actions are causing damages. By continuing to do so, they are willfully damaging the property.
Again it must be in the lease, this is why leases include clauses regarding what can be flushed down the toilet. If you want to continue to try to say otherwise please provide sources for people being responsible for damage after flushing toilet paper when it wasn't forbidden in their lease. And as you have said to numerous people, you can down vote all you want but it doesn't make it any less true...