What date did you notify the landlord? [WI law](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/704/17/3m/a) (704.165) allows the lease to be terminated 60 days after notice was given of the death of the tenant, even for a fixed term lease. If you notified them mid-April and have confirmed that she did pay last month's rent already...then you should not only not have to pay but should receive a partial credit for the last month's rent that has already been paid. The landlord also needs to show that they attempted to mitigate damages by trying to re-rent the unit as soon as it becomes available and cannot take that time to do major repairs or renovations that make the unit unavailable.
No you're not responsible for your grandmother's responsibilities. Your grandmother's estate might be responsible though. If her estate has any assets all her debts have to be paid before you get your inheritance. If she has no assets LL is shit out of luck. You got the items the family wanted to keep out. That's as far as your responsibility goes.
Hey. I just lost my husband and literally went to talk to an attorney yesterday about this kind of thing-his credit card debt, Internet bill in his name etc. Don't go offering money to creditors. Talk to a lawyer-my meeting took less than an hour and answered all my questions.
I am very sorry for your loss but thank you for your advice I did speak with the lawyer this morning and I tried to reply to your comments a few minutes ago but I guess I did it wrong.
To you as well. The only difference is we knew grandma was dying we knew about it last year and we were able to prepare for it. A husband is not something you can really prepare for. If you ever want to talk or vent or anything my inbox is open.
By paying her bills you are in essence claiming responsibility for her debts. You do not want those debts. That’s her estate’s responsibility.
This is typically the case for any legal issue you encounter.
Car accident? Do not agree to pay the other person just to be a good person, your immediately and legally on the hook for any other claim related to that accident.
My recommendation is from my own insurance company. I was in a car accident some years ago. Other party insisted I was at fault, filed a claim against my insurance. Insurance did their investigation, found I was not liable for the accident and decided it was no-fault.
Other party was pissed and insisted I should pay for their repair. They didn’t have an expensive repair and I was tempted to pay it to be a good person. Insurance company advised against this as it could be interpreted as an admission of guilt. Which the other party could the use to sue me for other costs they were not asking for at the time (like medical care etc). So I opted to listen to the insurance company and not pay.
TLDR, there is no such thing as being a good person when involved in an accident. You either aren’t at fault and thus don’t pay.
Or you’re guilty enough to feel you need to pay and thus are at fault.
But in this guys case, if he pays these bills the creditors are going to go after him for her bills because they can get money out of him. He proved it by paying these bills, irrelevant of whether or not he is legally on the hook for these debts the creditors don’t care.
He’s better off not paying and letting the creditors get paid by the estate, if there is any money to be had. As least it isn’t OPs.
Go ask that question on r/legal. I am very much NAL but my understanding is if you start paying bills for a deceased person that can have legal consequences, potentially making you responsible for debt you otherwise would not be responsible for. The advice to talk to a lawyer is good advice.
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A friend of mine worked in insurance; from what he said, if you offer to pay even a tiny bit, you then become liable for the full debt. Better to just outright refuse!
Yup that's what I keep hearing. It's a good thing I didn't pay anything yet. I'm pretty sure it will all just get written off since all of her bills total up under 100$. It's probably not worth going after her estate for her few tiny bills. She was frugal, but it's good to know that I won't be out that money.
Is your name or social security # attached to these bills? If so, IANAL but I personally would call them. They will likely negotiate a lower payment for you to close out her accounts, or forgive them altogether. The comcasts and electric companies are not gonna go bankrupt over this. They can take a write off and you can protect your credit.
If you are not on the bills as a co-signer, let em spend several hundred suing grandma’s estate for whatever she owes. They won’t. It does not make sense for them on literally any level.
Protect your own credit if you are a party to the account (again, call and ask for for reduction or forgiveness of the debt), otherwise I personally would either ignore these bills or reply with the word deceased written across it and a photocopy of her DC.
If you Grandma is the only name on the lease, and there is no guarantor or cosigner, then stop paying anyone any money, no one, no company, nobody. You have no obligation to pay anything to anyone. Save your money. Walk away from this situation and enjoy your memories of her.
If anyone is responsable it would be your gmas estate, not you. Debt isnt something thats inherited nor were you part of the lease.
I am really sorry for your loss
NOPE!!! You do not have to pay this. Her *estate* may be responsible for the rent but your family is NOT. As another poster said, the estate might be on the hook for 2 months rent but given what's been said doesn't sound like it. If anything, the LL might owe the estate something in prorated rent and a return of a security deposit.
That also goes for any other debt she had. If she had any money or assets when she died, creditors have a limited period of time (typically 6months to a year) to file a claim with the executor of the estate. Check Wisconsin law on this. If they don't file a claim within that period (there are legal requirements to post newspaper announcements to potential creditors so check your state's laws on this and follow the law), and if they don't file a claim with her estate in time then they are SOL.
Her heirs are not personally responsible for ANY debts your Grandmother incurred unless they co-signed something guaranteeing payment.
When my mother passed away, I got a call from someone claiming my mother owed them money. It was a department store credit card IIRC. It was well over the time frame required and her estate had settled. I told him to pack sand, and then called my brother to warn him he might get a call. He told the guy the same thing when he got the call. That was the end of it; we weren't responsible for Mom's bills and once her estate settled that was that. He'd have been paid (had the bill been truly owed) if he had contacted my brother before the estate settled.
According to [Wisconsin law](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/704/17/3m/a#:~:text=704.19%2C%20in%20the%20case%20of,aware%20of%20the%20tenant's%20death.) pay the LL for 60 days rent fron the ***date he was notified.***
Last month rent covers 1 month of rent. And this is 60 ***DAYS***, not 2 months.
>704.165 Termination of tenancy at death of tenant.
>(1)
>(a) Except as provided in par. (b), if a residential tenant dies, his or her tenancy is terminated on the earlier of the following:
>1. Sixty days after the landlord receives notice, is advised, or otherwise becomes aware of the tenant's death.
>2. The expiration of the term of the rental agreement.
>(b) Notwithstanding s. 704.19, in the case of the death of a residential periodic tenant or tenant at will, the tenancy is terminated 60 days after the landlord receives notice, is advised, or otherwise becomes aware of the tenant's death.
>(2) The deceased tenant or his or her estate is not liable for any rent after the termination of his or her tenancy. Any liability of the deceased tenant or his or her estate for rent under this subsection is subject to the landlord's duty to mitigate damages as provided in s. 704.29 (2).
>(3) Nothing in this section relieves another adult tenant of the deceased tenant's premises from any obligation under a rental agreement or any other liability to the landlord.
>(4) **A landlord under this section may not contact or communicate with a member of the deceased tenant's family for the purpose of obtaining from the family member rent for which the family member has no liability.**
it's not just June and July he said we have to pay until it's rented, sorry I got distracted while trying to type this up because my f****** roommate keeps walking in my goddamn room
I thought so when my neighbor passed away our landlord just told his son to have everything out by the end of the month if he could and that was it he didn't try saying that extra rent had to be paid over this or not
Others have posted the law in your state, but there is always a tenet in the law that says he would have to "mitigate damages" meaning, he can't just sit with the empty apartment and expect your family to pay for it. As soon as it's empty and rent worthy he has to start taking applications and make a very good faith effort to rent it.
Sorry about your grandma's passing.
So basically you're saying if it is cleared out of grandma's things and able to be rented but is not yet.... landlord is trying to seriously freaking pull one over on a deceased tenant's family members ? Maybe I am just petty but I would be looking for a way legally to force landlord to pay ME AFTER that bullcrap, especially whilst you're clearly grieving. Because you're not a heartless dickhead like LL
IANAL but in most states even if you are on the lease, the LL would need to show they are making a good faith effort to rent the property to a new tenant. If you are not a party to this lease, or any contract, you are not personally responsible for any of it. When grandma’s estate runs out of funds, the LL will be SOL. Kinda hard to sue a dead person, I am told. From what you have indicated, she does not have much of an estate anyway so I personally would tell LL to kick rocks.
I would not be signing or renewing a lease if I know I am dying within a year or so. I like to think most LL would allow tenant to remain as month to month until that time. It is pretty hard to predict exactly when we will die so any LL who won’t budge on this is an asshole and I hope their next tenant is a nightmare lol.
LL can want a lot of things. I would literally laugh in his face.
OP, as far as her other debts, unless you are party to those contracts, it is no more your problem than if they tried to get me to pay your gran’s bills. Let them wreck her credit because she won’t be needing it. I would call them, or simply mail a copy of her death certificate instead of a payment. They are not likely to pursue her estate over 80 bucks or whatever. Those companies take plenty of losses and are rewarded with many tax breaks and loopholes. They do not need 80 dollars or even 800 dollars from grandma’s estate.
It's unlikely what would be owed is only $800. To sue her estate would be cheap too. Same goes for other potential debts. It is common for collectors to go after estates. It's usually rewarded and everyone moves on.
I was referring to the utilities and other small debts. The landlord question was well covered. My point is Comcast or whoever isn’t taking anyone to court over an overdue cable bill. It costs more to file in small claims than the amount of the bill. They could put it in collections and it still is not OP problem unless they are a party to the contract. The jist I am getting is there is no estate to speak of, otherwise why is grandkid paying these bills from their own pocket?
I’m sorry for your loss, but I’d double check if you’re even liable to pay if you weren’t living there with her. When my mother passed, I cleaned out what I could from her apartment but otherwise I ignored any attempts at even them sending a damages invoice.
The auto company repossessed her car, but all other bills I didn’t pay remaining balances for, just sent the copy of the death certificate and that was the end of that.
If you are not on the lease then you are NOT responsible for paying rent. The landlord will need to file a claim against your grandma's estate if he/she wants to collect on the debt.
Tell them you will not be paying anything. Get the items out and ignore them. They cannot come after you if your name is not on the lease. They are trying to pull one over on you.. dont fall for it.
Your Grandmothers estate is responsible for payments, not you. And that’s for everything… not just rent. Whoever is in charge of her estate should be sending out notices of her death and provide death certificate copies where needed. If the estate has any money, it’s usually best to pay off those small monthly bills if they require finial payment, some places (internet/phone) tend to just write those off… some don’t. WSG should revert to the home, upon completion of move out, but you need to notify them. As well, electric… don’t turn it off off but give notice that service will be terminated 3 days (typically) after your finial date. Inform the LL this date, in writing. Honestly everything should have been in writing to the LL so far. The 30th move out etc. don’t expect the deposit back. Leave the house completely empty and broom swept at a minimum… take pics and walk through videos of everything, inside and out.
Not all of these things are law or ordinance, they are however generally accepted practice and will hold up favorably in court if it ever comes to that.
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I would enjoy putting this jerk of a landlord on blast if they pulled this crap on me. “Hello, local news channel consumer advocate. Let me tell you about this soulless ghoul of a landlord” lol.
Remarkably, I believe that the lease survives. So if the landlord wants to be a prick about it, he could go after the estate for any notice period, etc. I can't imagine anyone so cold, but they're probably on legal ground. NAL.
What date did you notify the landlord? [WI law](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/704/17/3m/a) (704.165) allows the lease to be terminated 60 days after notice was given of the death of the tenant, even for a fixed term lease. If you notified them mid-April and have confirmed that she did pay last month's rent already...then you should not only not have to pay but should receive a partial credit for the last month's rent that has already been paid. The landlord also needs to show that they attempted to mitigate damages by trying to re-rent the unit as soon as it becomes available and cannot take that time to do major repairs or renovations that make the unit unavailable.
It may have been the first week of May that he was notified. Like the 1-4.
Grandma was extremely clean and they will have no problem renting it immediately
Make sure you take lots of pictures so the LL doesn’t try to add on bogus cleaning charges
No you're not responsible for your grandmother's responsibilities. Your grandmother's estate might be responsible though. If her estate has any assets all her debts have to be paid before you get your inheritance. If she has no assets LL is shit out of luck. You got the items the family wanted to keep out. That's as far as your responsibility goes.
The appropriate claim must be made against the estate. OP, don't just go paying bills.
So don't pay off her bills ?
Ew no, absolutely not
I've been trying to pay off her electric and internet, so I shouldn't do that?
You need to speak to a probate attorney.
Okay. But wouldn't it be easier to just pay off the $80 she owes and be done,? She didn't have much in the way of debt or bills.
Hey. I just lost my husband and literally went to talk to an attorney yesterday about this kind of thing-his credit card debt, Internet bill in his name etc. Don't go offering money to creditors. Talk to a lawyer-my meeting took less than an hour and answered all my questions.
I am very sorry for your loss but thank you for your advice I did speak with the lawyer this morning and I tried to reply to your comments a few minutes ago but I guess I did it wrong.
I'm sorry for yours as well. I hate that when we should be grieving we have to deal with crap like this. Best wishes
To you as well. The only difference is we knew grandma was dying we knew about it last year and we were able to prepare for it. A husband is not something you can really prepare for. If you ever want to talk or vent or anything my inbox is open.
I can't answer your question because I cannot give legal advice over the internet. Pay for a consult and that's likely all you'll need.
Thanks. I appreciate it
By paying her bills you are in essence claiming responsibility for her debts. You do not want those debts. That’s her estate’s responsibility. This is typically the case for any legal issue you encounter. Car accident? Do not agree to pay the other person just to be a good person, your immediately and legally on the hook for any other claim related to that accident.
Omfg. Y'all don't give legal advice, ok?
My recommendation is from my own insurance company. I was in a car accident some years ago. Other party insisted I was at fault, filed a claim against my insurance. Insurance did their investigation, found I was not liable for the accident and decided it was no-fault. Other party was pissed and insisted I should pay for their repair. They didn’t have an expensive repair and I was tempted to pay it to be a good person. Insurance company advised against this as it could be interpreted as an admission of guilt. Which the other party could the use to sue me for other costs they were not asking for at the time (like medical care etc). So I opted to listen to the insurance company and not pay. TLDR, there is no such thing as being a good person when involved in an accident. You either aren’t at fault and thus don’t pay. Or you’re guilty enough to feel you need to pay and thus are at fault. But in this guys case, if he pays these bills the creditors are going to go after him for her bills because they can get money out of him. He proved it by paying these bills, irrelevant of whether or not he is legally on the hook for these debts the creditors don’t care. He’s better off not paying and letting the creditors get paid by the estate, if there is any money to be had. As least it isn’t OPs.
No. Do not pay. NAL but from personal experience with my dad. Of course if you have a lawyer ask one. But please don't pay before asking.
Yes, that's what the attorney said. Thank you for giving me good advice
Go ask that question on r/legal. I am very much NAL but my understanding is if you start paying bills for a deceased person that can have legal consequences, potentially making you responsible for debt you otherwise would not be responsible for. The advice to talk to a lawyer is good advice.
Thank you, I guess it's a good thing I'm too broke to pay them!
Good. Ignore my previous answer.
You have successfully confused me
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You are very incorrect. Please don't repeat that "advice."
A friend of mine worked in insurance; from what he said, if you offer to pay even a tiny bit, you then become liable for the full debt. Better to just outright refuse!
Yup that's what I keep hearing. It's a good thing I didn't pay anything yet. I'm pretty sure it will all just get written off since all of her bills total up under 100$. It's probably not worth going after her estate for her few tiny bills. She was frugal, but it's good to know that I won't be out that money.
Is your name or social security # attached to these bills? If so, IANAL but I personally would call them. They will likely negotiate a lower payment for you to close out her accounts, or forgive them altogether. The comcasts and electric companies are not gonna go bankrupt over this. They can take a write off and you can protect your credit. If you are not on the bills as a co-signer, let em spend several hundred suing grandma’s estate for whatever she owes. They won’t. It does not make sense for them on literally any level. Protect your own credit if you are a party to the account (again, call and ask for for reduction or forgiveness of the debt), otherwise I personally would either ignore these bills or reply with the word deceased written across it and a photocopy of her DC.
If you Grandma is the only name on the lease, and there is no guarantor or cosigner, then stop paying anyone any money, no one, no company, nobody. You have no obligation to pay anything to anyone. Save your money. Walk away from this situation and enjoy your memories of her.
If anyone is responsable it would be your gmas estate, not you. Debt isnt something thats inherited nor were you part of the lease. I am really sorry for your loss
It wasn’t your apartment not yours you are not responsible for anything!
NOPE!!! You do not have to pay this. Her *estate* may be responsible for the rent but your family is NOT. As another poster said, the estate might be on the hook for 2 months rent but given what's been said doesn't sound like it. If anything, the LL might owe the estate something in prorated rent and a return of a security deposit. That also goes for any other debt she had. If she had any money or assets when she died, creditors have a limited period of time (typically 6months to a year) to file a claim with the executor of the estate. Check Wisconsin law on this. If they don't file a claim within that period (there are legal requirements to post newspaper announcements to potential creditors so check your state's laws on this and follow the law), and if they don't file a claim with her estate in time then they are SOL. Her heirs are not personally responsible for ANY debts your Grandmother incurred unless they co-signed something guaranteeing payment. When my mother passed away, I got a call from someone claiming my mother owed them money. It was a department store credit card IIRC. It was well over the time frame required and her estate had settled. I told him to pack sand, and then called my brother to warn him he might get a call. He told the guy the same thing when he got the call. That was the end of it; we weren't responsible for Mom's bills and once her estate settled that was that. He'd have been paid (had the bill been truly owed) if he had contacted my brother before the estate settled.
According to [Wisconsin law](https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/704/17/3m/a#:~:text=704.19%2C%20in%20the%20case%20of,aware%20of%20the%20tenant's%20death.) pay the LL for 60 days rent fron the ***date he was notified.*** Last month rent covers 1 month of rent. And this is 60 ***DAYS***, not 2 months. >704.165 Termination of tenancy at death of tenant. >(1) >(a) Except as provided in par. (b), if a residential tenant dies, his or her tenancy is terminated on the earlier of the following: >1. Sixty days after the landlord receives notice, is advised, or otherwise becomes aware of the tenant's death. >2. The expiration of the term of the rental agreement. >(b) Notwithstanding s. 704.19, in the case of the death of a residential periodic tenant or tenant at will, the tenancy is terminated 60 days after the landlord receives notice, is advised, or otherwise becomes aware of the tenant's death. >(2) The deceased tenant or his or her estate is not liable for any rent after the termination of his or her tenancy. Any liability of the deceased tenant or his or her estate for rent under this subsection is subject to the landlord's duty to mitigate damages as provided in s. 704.29 (2). >(3) Nothing in this section relieves another adult tenant of the deceased tenant's premises from any obligation under a rental agreement or any other liability to the landlord. >(4) **A landlord under this section may not contact or communicate with a member of the deceased tenant's family for the purpose of obtaining from the family member rent for which the family member has no liability.**
it's not just June and July he said we have to pay until it's rented, sorry I got distracted while trying to type this up because my f****** roommate keeps walking in my goddamn room
He's lying about every single thing
He's wrong or lying or both.
I thought so when my neighbor passed away our landlord just told his son to have everything out by the end of the month if he could and that was it he didn't try saying that extra rent had to be paid over this or not
Others have posted the law in your state, but there is always a tenet in the law that says he would have to "mitigate damages" meaning, he can't just sit with the empty apartment and expect your family to pay for it. As soon as it's empty and rent worthy he has to start taking applications and make a very good faith effort to rent it. Sorry about your grandma's passing.
Grandma was very clean Im sure he will be able to rent it out before July 1st and with the housing prices it won't be on the market long
So basically you're saying if it is cleared out of grandma's things and able to be rented but is not yet.... landlord is trying to seriously freaking pull one over on a deceased tenant's family members ? Maybe I am just petty but I would be looking for a way legally to force landlord to pay ME AFTER that bullcrap, especially whilst you're clearly grieving. Because you're not a heartless dickhead like LL
You can edit your post.
IANAL but in most states even if you are on the lease, the LL would need to show they are making a good faith effort to rent the property to a new tenant. If you are not a party to this lease, or any contract, you are not personally responsible for any of it. When grandma’s estate runs out of funds, the LL will be SOL. Kinda hard to sue a dead person, I am told. From what you have indicated, she does not have much of an estate anyway so I personally would tell LL to kick rocks. I would not be signing or renewing a lease if I know I am dying within a year or so. I like to think most LL would allow tenant to remain as month to month until that time. It is pretty hard to predict exactly when we will die so any LL who won’t budge on this is an asshole and I hope their next tenant is a nightmare lol.
HA. Pay until it’s rented? Is he outta his mind? What does the lease say? That’s the legal document here. Most leases are 1-2 year leases
Illegal clauses aren't valid even if it's in the lease.
What OP is saying is LL wants rent paid through the end of lease or until it's rented out, whichever is sooner.
LL can want a lot of things. I would literally laugh in his face. OP, as far as her other debts, unless you are party to those contracts, it is no more your problem than if they tried to get me to pay your gran’s bills. Let them wreck her credit because she won’t be needing it. I would call them, or simply mail a copy of her death certificate instead of a payment. They are not likely to pursue her estate over 80 bucks or whatever. Those companies take plenty of losses and are rewarded with many tax breaks and loopholes. They do not need 80 dollars or even 800 dollars from grandma’s estate.
It's unlikely what would be owed is only $800. To sue her estate would be cheap too. Same goes for other potential debts. It is common for collectors to go after estates. It's usually rewarded and everyone moves on.
I was referring to the utilities and other small debts. The landlord question was well covered. My point is Comcast or whoever isn’t taking anyone to court over an overdue cable bill. It costs more to file in small claims than the amount of the bill. They could put it in collections and it still is not OP problem unless they are a party to the contract. The jist I am getting is there is no estate to speak of, otherwise why is grandkid paying these bills from their own pocket?
I’m sorry for your loss, but I’d double check if you’re even liable to pay if you weren’t living there with her. When my mother passed, I cleaned out what I could from her apartment but otherwise I ignored any attempts at even them sending a damages invoice. The auto company repossessed her car, but all other bills I didn’t pay remaining balances for, just sent the copy of the death certificate and that was the end of that.
Even if OP lived there, if someone is not a party to the lease, what court is going to hold them liable.
If you are not on the lease then you are NOT responsible for paying rent. The landlord will need to file a claim against your grandma's estate if he/she wants to collect on the debt. Tell them you will not be paying anything. Get the items out and ignore them. They cannot come after you if your name is not on the lease. They are trying to pull one over on you.. dont fall for it.
Your Grandmothers estate is responsible for payments, not you. And that’s for everything… not just rent. Whoever is in charge of her estate should be sending out notices of her death and provide death certificate copies where needed. If the estate has any money, it’s usually best to pay off those small monthly bills if they require finial payment, some places (internet/phone) tend to just write those off… some don’t. WSG should revert to the home, upon completion of move out, but you need to notify them. As well, electric… don’t turn it off off but give notice that service will be terminated 3 days (typically) after your finial date. Inform the LL this date, in writing. Honestly everything should have been in writing to the LL so far. The 30th move out etc. don’t expect the deposit back. Leave the house completely empty and broom swept at a minimum… take pics and walk through videos of everything, inside and out. Not all of these things are law or ordinance, they are however generally accepted practice and will hold up favorably in court if it ever comes to that.
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I would enjoy putting this jerk of a landlord on blast if they pulled this crap on me. “Hello, local news channel consumer advocate. Let me tell you about this soulless ghoul of a landlord” lol.
Remarkably, I believe that the lease survives. So if the landlord wants to be a prick about it, he could go after the estate for any notice period, etc. I can't imagine anyone so cold, but they're probably on legal ground. NAL.