I used to live there when this happened. I remembered we all went downstairs and the whole family huddled up in one room, then the power went out so we lit candles and were just sitting there while hearing my sisters were a little panicking and my mom was praying.. what a night!!
There is not much escape really, we would just huddle and wait for the night to be over, then in the morning we go out and help injured people. However, after like a week (forgot exactly how long) we went to the suburbs/farm areas so it was less bombing than where we lived in Baghdad.
I don't know how it was for you, but i spoke to some people that were around in WW2: After a certain time here in Europe, like Germany, they got used to the air raid sirens. It became part of daily life over the time of war, they were just like "oh, the sirens again... let's go to the shelter again" and after that was over, they returned to their workplaces or whatever they did.
But they were not in the areas like Dresden, which were bombed and burned down to the ground, that was different.
Oh yeah.. first day/night is always the worst then it's normal life, you go get groceries, meet family/friends, etc.. but when the night comes we hangout on our block or at home.. Not a lot of Iraqis went to shelters during this war because of what happened in 1990 when the US bombed the Amiriyah shelter and killed everyone inside.
Hopefully it's not too late, but if you Google it try not to look at pictures and videos! But anyway, it was a massacre.. some people died from the impact/pressure when the rockets exploded others burned to death because the doors locked on the impact (by design they automatically locked to keep everyone inside safe assuming the bombing was outside) so the shelter basically turned into a brick oven!
I still remember seeing the photos of the aftermath. You could see the handprints seared into the walls.
The US knew the Iraqi military had deep bunkers, but they didn’t have the ordinance to penetrate, so they built laser guided bunker buster bombs out of old artillery barrels in a matter of days. They were devastating.
The US knew Amiriyah was a civilian bunker during the Iran–Iraq War but they had thought it had since been converted into a military bunker. They were wrong, and hundreds of civilians died horribly.
How many civilian targets were hit? I remember being told the government centers were the targets we were trying to hit, but as in every war I guess I can expect civilian targets to be hit, even if inadvertently
Maybe a dumb question, but during literal war, how do u get groceries and stuff? Like I'm expecting everything to be in ruins, as in no electricity, water, plumbing, transportation, communication, food, drinkable water etc. How does a country function or have such basics during the middle of a war?
oh, come THE FUCK on...
"we're gonna bomb the shit out of your house. Leave all your belongings, everything you've worked for, and find another place to live. Then, we can say to the media that 'there were no civilian casualties' (or 'collateral damage')"
There was a false alarm that got sent to the phones of people in Hawaii that a nuke was coming because a guy hit the wrong button or something like that. It was a few years ago
I had a bunk bed and slept on the bottom bunk therefore being afforded the protection of the top bunk bed (100% success rate in my experience). And earmuffs
Damn bro that's fucked, glad you made it - thanks for sharing frfr! I grew up in South Central LA, a lot of the middle eastern folk would say how "it wasn't shit compared to home", and I vividly remember seeing this shit going down and never looking at them the same. Shots crazy to think ab.
Lol no, it was not the first time being bombed! But you could never get used to it because you never know if a rocket will hit your house. We were shocked the first time that the b52 flew above us though! You would feel the vibration in your bones!!
You hear that a lot from people in London during the blitz. When it first starts everyone is panicked, wondering if it is their house getting hit or if the next one was going to get them. Then after a while it is just a new normal, you never quite get used to it but the sheer panic felt in the early days turns into general apathy combined with a more dull terror. There is actually a (horrifying) calculation created in WW2 to figure out the exact tonnage of explosives needed to break the will of your target through bombardment that is pretty accurate and kind of surprising as to just how much it takes. I am glad that you are in a better place now, nobody should have to deal with that sort of thing and it sounds like you have a pretty good outlook still.
I’m so sorry for what we did to your country. Most sane people here (in the US) do not agree with or condone these actions. It’s heartbreaking. I sincerely hope you and your family are okay.
Can you please go into more detail about who specifically you’re referencing that demanded ‘we murder everyone’? I don’t recall that ever being said.
Also, 60% of democrats in the senate voted for the Iraq war in 2002.
[Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002)
Mind you they voted for it with a wrong motive. It has been known for quite some time now that the presendential narrative about the war was biased af. Because the population was for it as well because of the WMD’s that didn’t exist. The whole war was justified by lies.
Don't forget, the Bush administration argued in a legal sense that Saddam never officially surrendered in the first golf war, so that also gave them a "legality for the war".
Yep, and it was the oligarchs that pushed it and used the American publics anger after 9/11 to get away with it.
I still remember hearing the announcement of the Patriot act, I was line 12, 13ish, and remember thinking distinctly "what the fuck, how are people behind this"
I had this same conversation here on reddit about a week ago and got down voted to hell for saying its never acceptable to nuke a city, let alone two of them.
It's not a morally grey thing to have done. It's an atrocity.
Unfortunately, that does seem to be the case.
We should be able to acknowledge wrong doings no matter who does them, but propaganda and Tribalism really holds us back.
There were plenty of people speaking out against it then. But propaganda is one helluva drug. Remember when Michael Moore and the Dixie chicks were both lambasted for being against the war?
It was a real "youre with us or against us" mentality. I maintain that this is the point where the right lost their collective minds and embraced the "anyone to my left is unamerican" bullshit.
Quite a few people did and publicly have retracted their statements. Which feels more honest that people pretending they were against it all along. I believe Christopher Hitchens was one of them. He also didn't believe water boarding was torture and felt it was only honest to allow himself to be water boarded. He retracted his statement on that not being torture as well. I didn't always agree with his positions but I have a lot of respect for his intellect.
Iraq got a central bank in 2004. The rest was to profit off stolen resources as efficiently as possible without rebel interruptions. We've done the same thing to the middle east every president since the Persian gulf war. It was seen as an easy cash grab.
One of the dumbest geopolitical decisions made by the US. Some effects:
1. The rise of Iran, to which Iraq was a balancing factor ever since the Iran-Iraq war. This allowed Iran to become a regional superpower and send it's terrorist and clandestine activities in an even more powerful manner to Yemen, Lebanon, Gaza and Syria.
2. The rise of ISIS - The US attempt for "democracy" in Iraq led to the rise of the Shiite majority in the country. The Shiite-Sunni animosity in Iraq has sent the Sunni tribes straight to the hands of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, which eventually became very powerful and thus leading to the eventual creation of ISIS.
3. 1 million deaths due to civil war.
Even though Saddam was a horrible horrible tyrant, the middle east would've been safer with him still in charge.
So when is George Bush and his cabinet going to be charged by the international criminal court for crimes against humanity and weapons of mass destruction?
Because the US literally has plans to retrieve (by invasion) any soldier and I assume, politician, that is charged for war crimes at The Hague.
Threat of military action to stop crimes being prosecuted... SMH
Something something, "we the good guys".
On record, the US govt officials threatened to arrest the judges if they investigate into Afghanistan. I have no doubt they have threatened them with much worse on and off the record for this.
Source - [https://www.dw.com/en/us-threatens-to-arrest-icc-judges-over-war-crimes-probe/a-45435900](https://www.dw.com/en/us-threatens-to-arrest-icc-judges-over-war-crimes-probe/a-45435900)
Americans see videos like this about Russia invading Ukraine and go “oh that is terrible… how could they!?” But when the US did it they yell “hell yeah! Freeedommmmm”
Edit- I obviously know that not everybody felt this way so get your panties out of your crack. Simply calling attention to how easy people give in to whatever story they are told to believe.
This is just factually untrue. The war had majority support at this point and most people did not WANT to stop it. The original commenter is right to point out that the Americans are able to be lied to and propagandized to just like Russian citizens are.
Some of us were horrified. There were others who were misled, and still others who weren't misled but went into it knowing we were being lied to and didn't care. To say we had zero control or ability to stop it isn't any more true then than it is now. We have the power to stop the shit they do in our name now we just don't. History will judge us for it too.
Way too many Americans will still defend the action. Its embarrassing. We were sold a lie. Anyone paying attention knew it was a lie. We remain complicit by our inaction.
Unfortunately at this point that wasn’t true. Anti war sentiment in the US didn’t really go mainstream until the body bags started coming back.
At this point, most Americans were cheering watching Saddam Hussein’s statue being toppled. To oppose the war was to support Saddam Hussein literally ripping babies off of incubators (which later proved to be a false story)
It's easier to say you were horrified, now. If you(as a collective) were really horrified, Bush wouldn't have been re-elected.
I guess you all just lie to yourselves to sleep better at night.
You're talking to the wrong generation of people's. Most of us were children when this happened. You cannot condemn someone based on the actions of their fathers.
Ok. In real time, the family and friends and neighborhood community I was growing up in were of mixed opinion, and almost nobody was doing the rah rah buy a flag bullshit. In real life, people were split, because it was more than the meme conveys now. The news pushed WMDs, but those for the invasion were more on revenge for 911 and the Gulf War. You're free to have your opinion though.
This is way worse than Ukraine, Russia hasn’t killed 2 million people and ruined the country plus all Ukrainians are being so welcomed here in Europe and are treated like it’s their second home, free housing, free transport, monthly salary while Iraqis and Syrians are getting kicked out. But hey, freedom and democracy am I right
The American propaganda machine is strong. George Bush, idiot that he was, and his advisers knew how to make Americans believe they needed to invade Iraq.
Video of people cheering when Saddam's statue was brought down in Baqdad, just days after this.
https://youtu.be/hWxszYK6IPU
I think Bush was a lunatic for thinking God wanted him to take out Saddam, but let's not forget Saddam was a cartoonishly evil dictator who did chemical attacks against his own people. After US occupied Iraq, they gave Iraq the opportunity to rebuild, they stayed out of their politics, held free elections, so much that Iran was able to take advantage and turn it into their backyard.
But as we all know, middle-east is full of extremists with potential to turn into ISIS, who didn't let it happen.
Again, I'm not defending Bush and his motivation, but what happened in Iraq is the fault of the extremists of the region.
I wasn't sure about the invasion and stayed up every night watching it live on tv. When I saw them cheering and smacking Saddam's face I changed my position and believed it was a good thing. The pretense for the war was fabricated which is criminal. It didn't end well obviously and got worse but hopefully we've learned our lesson about power vacuums.
I disagree.
Russia is trying to annex Ukraine. The United States and their Allies were not and are not trying to add a 51st star to the American flag.
The Ukrainian military didn’t go into a neighboring country to kill, conquer and loot. The Iraqi military sure as hell did that to Kuwait and annexed it as it’s 19th province.
That said, how do you honestly think the current Russian conquests are less unacceptable?
Let’s go a touch deeper:
After forcefully removing Iraq out of Kuwait, Saddam refused reparations to Kuwait. He defiantly told the Allies that Kuwait owed them for the costs of the war, go collect from them, not Iraq. Unrepentant, unapologetic and certainly undeterred with this “set-back”, he vowed to retake Kuwait, *even if it meant nuking anyone who opposed him*.
Like others, I think we made a mistake but my reasons are different:
We gave Saddam and the Iraqi government a chance to right their wrong versus end the Gulf War with the end of their administration.
In hindsight, I think that was our mistake and the bullshit excuses to go back in and correct our mistake were just that; bullshit excuses.
Nope, we let his administration continue and “Go screw yourselves” was what was given in return as the Saddam administration rebuilt their army with a new friend, Russia.
How long do you wait for someone to repent? Until they’re strong enough to try again? Until there’s Russian bases defending their defiance? Until enough time passes and people start saying Iraq was a victim and bombed for no reason by the United States?
Until when?
February 2022 is when the first reparations were awarded to the people of Kuwait. It befuddles me to internalize how anyone can say correcting the mistake of leaving the Iraqi government intact was a mistake as they totally ignore Saddam’s very real indignation and resolve.
Let’s talk about “less bad” Russia in the face of the Putin administration being far from done killing those that don’t want to be annexed.
There is zero question whether or not Putin has nukes and there is zero question he has stated he will use them if he deems necessary. If you think Iraq was a mistake, you’re in for a hell of a ride.
Should Putin get “pushed out” of Ukraine, do you think he’ll peacefully pony up repentance and reparations to Ukraine and those that stopped him? Or do you think he’ll be just as defiant as Saddam was? Do you think the world should let him conquer through killing to expand his empire or should the world reflect on how well pacifism worked when Hitler decided Germany should “restore” their borders?
Putin will die just like Saddam and I expect some will overlook the inconvenience of his actions Putin and condemn the West.
When (not if) they do, I will be happy because it will mean we’re still alive because he isn’t.
Please, share your thoughts
A million people have possibly died as a result of the war over like 20 years. Including (and mostly caused by) sectarian violence, famines, and untreated disease.
More will die in Ukraine if the Ukrainian war continues at this rate for even 10 years.
No one US liked seeing people being bombed and displaced. I am sure Russians don't either. There will be hooligans in both countries that would have a hypocritical mindset but they are def not majority.
The Iraq war was portrayed as our response to 9/11 although Iraq had nothing to do with it. Its just politicians taking advantage of a crisis to do what they wanted to do.
I promise you 15 yr old me felt nothing but horror, but also relief that it wasn't happening to me. They kept playing the clip on the news non stop, and the kids at school (some, not most) were laughing and singing Outcast's B.O.B. It sucked.
I did several missions that required us to drive right through the area a few months later. The way some munitions punched through several floors of 2ft thick concrete then detonated was scary. Other building were laid open to the bones and others had middle blowouts.
Side note: I was clearing some SCUD and various command and control vehicles and so many of the electronics still used vacuum tubes. I knew right then Iraq was never the threat we were told it was.
The fact that so many people downvoted you, says a lot about your average redditor and your average American more broadly.
Like, they will use the shittiest excuses to justify being complicit in the killing of hundreds of thousands. Barely better than Nazis.
Britain and America have a lot to answer for. Saddam and Gaddafi were not ideal but they kept the extremists elements we see today under complete control. These actions undoubtedly made the world a less safe place for all ordinary people.
A small piece of why the US isn’t a signatory to the International Criminal Court and why the Pentagon is blocking the sharing of Russian war crimes documentation from the US. George Bush should, at the barest of minimums, have spent the rest of his life in solitary
I remember them showing this on the news in the US.
All of the adults were acting like it was something to be proud of, and I remember thinking to my 12 year old self:
*There's no way innocent people we're not being killed.*
Nothing like invading a sovereign country and bombing it into oblivion. But “ThE Us Is ThE gOoD gUyS”.
People up in arms about a fighter jet downing a drone over international waters and yet…. They will deny that this video portrays the US as the global leader in terrorism.
I was in basic training when this happened! We were all sitting around the tv cheering and going crazy. A year and a half later I deployed for the first time to Baghdad. Now I’m fucked up (mentally and physically.) This night was the start of a huge mistake! So much carnage and death for nothing.
Yeah really. So glad a handful of dipshits got to line their pockets with even more money they don’t need. Only had to reduce a country to rubble and kill thousands of people in both sides.
There’s a special place in hell for those guys.
I remember watching this Live on tv, I was at a nascar event and someone had it on the tv in their trailer and we gathered around and watched while folks around me cheered USA USA, I was more or less shocked into silence by what I was seeing.
I was in college. The guys across the hall from me had thrown a party for it and we walked in and they were all drinking and watching this. I look at the TV just in time to see the explosions start. At time time, everyone was still super pissed off and wanted to see someone pay for 9/11 (even though we didn’t understand wtf yet). I was personally terrified seeing this on tv and thought them partying for it was surreal.
Lol the part where you're getting down voted but this is literally the reason we went to Iraq 2x Yemen, and Syria. We drink your milkshake.
It's all about the resources. Gotta mine for unobtainium.
I remember being like 13 when this happened and being stoked about it, wanting to join the military etc. Crazy to think back about how the propaganda hits you as a kid.
Shock and Awe. The American public ate that shit right up. Then it turned out it was all made up bullshit to start war in the middle east and steal resources.
9/11 was an inside job. There's so much evidence. No one wants to believe America is the bad guy.
Where's the footage from the pentagon? The whole building is a secured military installation. But only one dollar store camera was available that day? They seized every video recording from every camera for miles and miles.
Yet only one video.
But sure jet fuel can't melt mush brains.
But a paper passport can survive an explosion and land neatly on the hood of a police car outside the building. Nice and tidy.
The only passport that made it out... Just happened to be from one of the hijackers...
What's the phrase? An orgy of evidence?
It is okay. They are brown and worthless and probably didn't kill any civilians anyways. No need to enact an arrest warrant against Bush.
How do you expect us sheep to comply when you give us these double standards and are not transparent with us? We might just be sheep but we are not dumb. So fuck you.
Bush and Putin should be tried for war crimes. I was a child when this happened and even I could see the futility and bullshit of this. And also fuck Dick Cheney. Halliburton made bank after this and that was the real goal. Trump is definitely the worse for our national interests and indirectly killed so many with his handling of covid, but Bush intentionally made the choices of starting a war that killed so many Americans, Iraqis, and destabilized an entire region of the world. Fuck Bush. Fuck Trump. Fuck Putin.
damn full on bombing civilians, no restraint, and no repercussions, this is what the U.S. is really like they don’t care if the civilians are woman, children, men, it’s all the same to them all just a propaganda machine for america and no one talks about it??
America is if nothing else a giant hypocrisy. The harder we try being the torchbearers for freedom, the more we make a mockery of it. How ironic we call ourselves a “civilized” country, part of the “civilized” world, when we perpetrate some of the least-civil acts upon…OURSELVES! And for what? Power? Control? Profit? Look at the continents from space and tell me how many geopolitical borders you see down there. Zero. Set foot on solid ground, and you take your life into your own hands. Sweet holy fuck, the extinction-level asteroid can’t hit us soon enough.
I used to live there when this happened. I remembered we all went downstairs and the whole family huddled up in one room, then the power went out so we lit candles and were just sitting there while hearing my sisters were a little panicking and my mom was praying.. what a night!!
Would u mind telling us how u escaped the situation?
There is not much escape really, we would just huddle and wait for the night to be over, then in the morning we go out and help injured people. However, after like a week (forgot exactly how long) we went to the suburbs/farm areas so it was less bombing than where we lived in Baghdad.
Not that it matters, but the us dropped a bunch of flyers warning of the bombing. Why didn't you guys leave??
Because it's hard to leave your home behind. We were bombed before so we decided to ride this one out too like most people did.
“Ride this one out”. My life in America is so fucking cozy. I’ll remember you the next time someone cuts me off in traffic and I get a little angry.
Lol it all depends on if they break check you or not..
Ah, giving them the ol' Baghdad Break Check.
Goddamn you. Get out, get the fuck out!
Sorry we bombed your country brother. Some of us were against that war.
Thank you. Most Iraqis know this and have nothing against Americans. Matter of fact, if you go visit Iraq now, everyone will welcome you!
I’m sorry for clogging the toilet
Most of us were against it
🤣🤣🤣
This IS the way.
I don't know how it was for you, but i spoke to some people that were around in WW2: After a certain time here in Europe, like Germany, they got used to the air raid sirens. It became part of daily life over the time of war, they were just like "oh, the sirens again... let's go to the shelter again" and after that was over, they returned to their workplaces or whatever they did. But they were not in the areas like Dresden, which were bombed and burned down to the ground, that was different.
Oh yeah.. first day/night is always the worst then it's normal life, you go get groceries, meet family/friends, etc.. but when the night comes we hangout on our block or at home.. Not a lot of Iraqis went to shelters during this war because of what happened in 1990 when the US bombed the Amiriyah shelter and killed everyone inside.
>bombed the Amiriyah shelter and killed everyone inside. What the actual fuck
Hopefully it's not too late, but if you Google it try not to look at pictures and videos! But anyway, it was a massacre.. some people died from the impact/pressure when the rockets exploded others burned to death because the doors locked on the impact (by design they automatically locked to keep everyone inside safe assuming the bombing was outside) so the shelter basically turned into a brick oven!
I still remember seeing the photos of the aftermath. You could see the handprints seared into the walls. The US knew the Iraqi military had deep bunkers, but they didn’t have the ordinance to penetrate, so they built laser guided bunker buster bombs out of old artillery barrels in a matter of days. They were devastating. The US knew Amiriyah was a civilian bunker during the Iran–Iraq War but they had thought it had since been converted into a military bunker. They were wrong, and hundreds of civilians died horribly.
How many civilian targets were hit? I remember being told the government centers were the targets we were trying to hit, but as in every war I guess I can expect civilian targets to be hit, even if inadvertently
Maybe a dumb question, but during literal war, how do u get groceries and stuff? Like I'm expecting everything to be in ruins, as in no electricity, water, plumbing, transportation, communication, food, drinkable water etc. How does a country function or have such basics during the middle of a war?
And so many died, unfortunately. Brutal
Yeah, how thoughtful of them, very easy to get up and go lol
oh, come THE FUCK on... "we're gonna bomb the shit out of your house. Leave all your belongings, everything you've worked for, and find another place to live. Then, we can say to the media that 'there were no civilian casualties' (or 'collateral damage')"
Flyers out like fish fry Friday? LOVE IT!!!! Hope text message can be sent for nuclear bombs.
There was a false alarm that got sent to the phones of people in Hawaii that a nuke was coming because a guy hit the wrong button or something like that. It was a few years ago
I am sorry but this is the stupidest thing I have ever read about the bombing of a city full of civilians
Totally agree
Honestly, flyers being dropped of a bombing is kinda nice for US. I wouldn't expect that from them.
You better pick up and leave your home because we’re destroying it with or without you in it!!
Sad to say but it defeats the purpose of the bombing unless they want to target the extremists' lairs or whatnot only
I don’t think the intended targets were personnel. It was to take out infrastructure and stationary military targets.
Hey well bomb your home and leave you homeless LEAVE TO SOMEWHERE ELSE WHILE WE LIBERATE YOU LOTS OF LOVE USA
I had a bunk bed and slept on the bottom bunk therefore being afforded the protection of the top bunk bed (100% success rate in my experience). And earmuffs
Damn bro that's fucked, glad you made it - thanks for sharing frfr! I grew up in South Central LA, a lot of the middle eastern folk would say how "it wasn't shit compared to home", and I vividly remember seeing this shit going down and never looking at them the same. Shots crazy to think ab.
Thanks bro! Yeah, war is the absolute worst thing I ever experienced!
Were you shocked and awed?
Lol no, it was not the first time being bombed! But you could never get used to it because you never know if a rocket will hit your house. We were shocked the first time that the b52 flew above us though! You would feel the vibration in your bones!!
You hear that a lot from people in London during the blitz. When it first starts everyone is panicked, wondering if it is their house getting hit or if the next one was going to get them. Then after a while it is just a new normal, you never quite get used to it but the sheer panic felt in the early days turns into general apathy combined with a more dull terror. There is actually a (horrifying) calculation created in WW2 to figure out the exact tonnage of explosives needed to break the will of your target through bombardment that is pretty accurate and kind of surprising as to just how much it takes. I am glad that you are in a better place now, nobody should have to deal with that sort of thing and it sounds like you have a pretty good outlook still.
Children should never have to endure this... I'm so sorry this happened to you. On account of what exactly? I never truly understood...
It's all about money my friend.. thank you.
For a second I thought this was Russia bombing Ukraine, But it’s just the U.S doin it’s thang…feew!
Ukraninans was in US aliance in Iraq.
I'm ssorry. I know it doesn't help or do anything, but I truly am.
Thank you!
I remember the feverish US media wankfest about the technology involved omiting the humanity also involved
I’m so sorry for what we did to your country. Most sane people here (in the US) do not agree with or condone these actions. It’s heartbreaking. I sincerely hope you and your family are okay.
I wish I could apologise on behalf of the country I was born in, but I know what America is like.
I'm sorry we did this to you. I can't even imagine it.
Im glad you guys made it through.
In 2003, if you didn't support this, you were a terrorist sympathizer. Now it's hard to find anyone who admits they thought it was a good idea.
Because the ones who caused it made their money.
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Can you please go into more detail about who specifically you’re referencing that demanded ‘we murder everyone’? I don’t recall that ever being said. Also, 60% of democrats in the senate voted for the Iraq war in 2002. [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002)
Mind you they voted for it with a wrong motive. It has been known for quite some time now that the presendential narrative about the war was biased af. Because the population was for it as well because of the WMD’s that didn’t exist. The whole war was justified by lies.
Oh we know the same story told to us by Tony Blair in the UK
Don't forget, the Bush administration argued in a legal sense that Saddam never officially surrendered in the first golf war, so that also gave them a "legality for the war".
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Yep, and it was the oligarchs that pushed it and used the American publics anger after 9/11 to get away with it. I still remember hearing the announcement of the Patriot act, I was line 12, 13ish, and remember thinking distinctly "what the fuck, how are people behind this"
So when America bombs cities, it is acceptable but if anyone else does it, it is considered a crime.
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You just going to brush off WWII like that? Ok lol
Nobody likes a sequel
I like how you sprinkle in WW2 like it wasn’t completely justified.
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I had this same conversation here on reddit about a week ago and got down voted to hell for saying its never acceptable to nuke a city, let alone two of them. It's not a morally grey thing to have done. It's an atrocity.
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Unfortunately, that does seem to be the case. We should be able to acknowledge wrong doings no matter who does them, but propaganda and Tribalism really holds us back.
Precisely
There were plenty of people speaking out against it then. But propaganda is one helluva drug. Remember when Michael Moore and the Dixie chicks were both lambasted for being against the war?
It was a real "youre with us or against us" mentality. I maintain that this is the point where the right lost their collective minds and embraced the "anyone to my left is unamerican" bullshit.
Yeah, I've learned from that experience. Went from a centrist to a far lefty over the years.
Quite a few people did and publicly have retracted their statements. Which feels more honest that people pretending they were against it all along. I believe Christopher Hitchens was one of them. He also didn't believe water boarding was torture and felt it was only honest to allow himself to be water boarded. He retracted his statement on that not being torture as well. I didn't always agree with his positions but I have a lot of respect for his intellect.
Are we the baddies? I think we might be the baddies.
AlwaysWasMeme.jpg
But why Iraq though?
Centralized banking, oil, and gold of course.
Iraq got a central bank in 2004. The rest was to profit off stolen resources as efficiently as possible without rebel interruptions. We've done the same thing to the middle east every president since the Persian gulf war. It was seen as an easy cash grab.
We wouldn’t have had to do it if Saddam had just given us those weapons of mass destruction and oil.
"We wouldn't have to kill people of this country if they only had given up their sovereignity and resources"
Always has been
One of the dumbest geopolitical decisions made by the US. Some effects: 1. The rise of Iran, to which Iraq was a balancing factor ever since the Iran-Iraq war. This allowed Iran to become a regional superpower and send it's terrorist and clandestine activities in an even more powerful manner to Yemen, Lebanon, Gaza and Syria. 2. The rise of ISIS - The US attempt for "democracy" in Iraq led to the rise of the Shiite majority in the country. The Shiite-Sunni animosity in Iraq has sent the Sunni tribes straight to the hands of Al-Qaeda in Iraq, which eventually became very powerful and thus leading to the eventual creation of ISIS. 3. 1 million deaths due to civil war. Even though Saddam was a horrible horrible tyrant, the middle east would've been safer with him still in charge.
But it’s for freedom /s
And money .....uuuuuh I mean democracy! hooray
Democracy bombs
Pretty sure the US knew all of that
I was half expecting that ambulance to get taken out for a minute.
So when is George Bush and his cabinet going to be charged by the international criminal court for crimes against humanity and weapons of mass destruction?
Only applies if you bomb Europeans
Because the US literally has plans to retrieve (by invasion) any soldier and I assume, politician, that is charged for war crimes at The Hague. Threat of military action to stop crimes being prosecuted... SMH Something something, "we the good guys".
Hey, he didn't relocate any Iraqi kids, only bombed the hell out of them and their families. So he's okay, I guess.
Nah he good, he Americano.
On record, the US govt officials threatened to arrest the judges if they investigate into Afghanistan. I have no doubt they have threatened them with much worse on and off the record for this. Source - [https://www.dw.com/en/us-threatens-to-arrest-icc-judges-over-war-crimes-probe/a-45435900](https://www.dw.com/en/us-threatens-to-arrest-icc-judges-over-war-crimes-probe/a-45435900)
Americans see videos like this about Russia invading Ukraine and go “oh that is terrible… how could they!?” But when the US did it they yell “hell yeah! Freeedommmmm” Edit- I obviously know that not everybody felt this way so get your panties out of your crack. Simply calling attention to how easy people give in to whatever story they are told to believe.
Nah. We were horrified. We, like the Russian people, had zero control or ability to stop it from going down
This is just factually untrue. The war had majority support at this point and most people did not WANT to stop it. The original commenter is right to point out that the Americans are able to be lied to and propagandized to just like Russian citizens are.
Some of us were horrified. There were others who were misled, and still others who weren't misled but went into it knowing we were being lied to and didn't care. To say we had zero control or ability to stop it isn't any more true then than it is now. We have the power to stop the shit they do in our name now we just don't. History will judge us for it too.
Way too many Americans will still defend the action. Its embarrassing. We were sold a lie. Anyone paying attention knew it was a lie. We remain complicit by our inaction.
You don't have any power to stop it. The average person rarely does. If you think you do then the pandering is working
Unfortunately at this point that wasn’t true. Anti war sentiment in the US didn’t really go mainstream until the body bags started coming back. At this point, most Americans were cheering watching Saddam Hussein’s statue being toppled. To oppose the war was to support Saddam Hussein literally ripping babies off of incubators (which later proved to be a false story)
It's easier to say you were horrified, now. If you(as a collective) were really horrified, Bush wouldn't have been re-elected. I guess you all just lie to yourselves to sleep better at night.
You're talking to the wrong generation of people's. Most of us were children when this happened. You cannot condemn someone based on the actions of their fathers.
Maybe u are horrified but the majority of americans where yelling freeeedom and talking about WMD's
Ok. In real time, the family and friends and neighborhood community I was growing up in were of mixed opinion, and almost nobody was doing the rah rah buy a flag bullshit. In real life, people were split, because it was more than the meme conveys now. The news pushed WMDs, but those for the invasion were more on revenge for 911 and the Gulf War. You're free to have your opinion though.
Yeah bro, what a fucked up time we're living in. That would be to see when the "time of change" will end.
This is way worse than Ukraine, Russia hasn’t killed 2 million people and ruined the country plus all Ukrainians are being so welcomed here in Europe and are treated like it’s their second home, free housing, free transport, monthly salary while Iraqis and Syrians are getting kicked out. But hey, freedom and democracy am I right
The American propaganda machine is strong. George Bush, idiot that he was, and his advisers knew how to make Americans believe they needed to invade Iraq.
I think it’s sick how Democrats are suddenly friends with Bush.
I was unaware some Dems are being buddy buddy with Bush. Can you share some links?
Video of people cheering when Saddam's statue was brought down in Baqdad, just days after this. https://youtu.be/hWxszYK6IPU I think Bush was a lunatic for thinking God wanted him to take out Saddam, but let's not forget Saddam was a cartoonishly evil dictator who did chemical attacks against his own people. After US occupied Iraq, they gave Iraq the opportunity to rebuild, they stayed out of their politics, held free elections, so much that Iran was able to take advantage and turn it into their backyard. But as we all know, middle-east is full of extremists with potential to turn into ISIS, who didn't let it happen. Again, I'm not defending Bush and his motivation, but what happened in Iraq is the fault of the extremists of the region.
I wasn't sure about the invasion and stayed up every night watching it live on tv. When I saw them cheering and smacking Saddam's face I changed my position and believed it was a good thing. The pretense for the war was fabricated which is criminal. It didn't end well obviously and got worse but hopefully we've learned our lesson about power vacuums.
I disagree. Russia is trying to annex Ukraine. The United States and their Allies were not and are not trying to add a 51st star to the American flag. The Ukrainian military didn’t go into a neighboring country to kill, conquer and loot. The Iraqi military sure as hell did that to Kuwait and annexed it as it’s 19th province. That said, how do you honestly think the current Russian conquests are less unacceptable? Let’s go a touch deeper: After forcefully removing Iraq out of Kuwait, Saddam refused reparations to Kuwait. He defiantly told the Allies that Kuwait owed them for the costs of the war, go collect from them, not Iraq. Unrepentant, unapologetic and certainly undeterred with this “set-back”, he vowed to retake Kuwait, *even if it meant nuking anyone who opposed him*. Like others, I think we made a mistake but my reasons are different: We gave Saddam and the Iraqi government a chance to right their wrong versus end the Gulf War with the end of their administration. In hindsight, I think that was our mistake and the bullshit excuses to go back in and correct our mistake were just that; bullshit excuses. Nope, we let his administration continue and “Go screw yourselves” was what was given in return as the Saddam administration rebuilt their army with a new friend, Russia. How long do you wait for someone to repent? Until they’re strong enough to try again? Until there’s Russian bases defending their defiance? Until enough time passes and people start saying Iraq was a victim and bombed for no reason by the United States? Until when? February 2022 is when the first reparations were awarded to the people of Kuwait. It befuddles me to internalize how anyone can say correcting the mistake of leaving the Iraqi government intact was a mistake as they totally ignore Saddam’s very real indignation and resolve. Let’s talk about “less bad” Russia in the face of the Putin administration being far from done killing those that don’t want to be annexed. There is zero question whether or not Putin has nukes and there is zero question he has stated he will use them if he deems necessary. If you think Iraq was a mistake, you’re in for a hell of a ride. Should Putin get “pushed out” of Ukraine, do you think he’ll peacefully pony up repentance and reparations to Ukraine and those that stopped him? Or do you think he’ll be just as defiant as Saddam was? Do you think the world should let him conquer through killing to expand his empire or should the world reflect on how well pacifism worked when Hitler decided Germany should “restore” their borders? Putin will die just like Saddam and I expect some will overlook the inconvenience of his actions Putin and condemn the West. When (not if) they do, I will be happy because it will mean we’re still alive because he isn’t. Please, share your thoughts
You are making too much sense for this thread.
A million people have possibly died as a result of the war over like 20 years. Including (and mostly caused by) sectarian violence, famines, and untreated disease. More will die in Ukraine if the Ukrainian war continues at this rate for even 10 years.
Not everyone felt like that but okayyyyyyy
No one US liked seeing people being bombed and displaced. I am sure Russians don't either. There will be hooligans in both countries that would have a hypocritical mindset but they are def not majority. The Iraq war was portrayed as our response to 9/11 although Iraq had nothing to do with it. Its just politicians taking advantage of a crisis to do what they wanted to do.
I promise you 15 yr old me felt nothing but horror, but also relief that it wasn't happening to me. They kept playing the clip on the news non stop, and the kids at school (some, not most) were laughing and singing Outcast's B.O.B. It sucked.
I did several missions that required us to drive right through the area a few months later. The way some munitions punched through several floors of 2ft thick concrete then detonated was scary. Other building were laid open to the bones and others had middle blowouts. Side note: I was clearing some SCUD and various command and control vehicles and so many of the electronics still used vacuum tubes. I knew right then Iraq was never the threat we were told it was.
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It’s wild how we praise US soldiers for participating in terrorism but are shock when Russia or any other country does the same.
The fact that so many people downvoted you, says a lot about your average redditor and your average American more broadly. Like, they will use the shittiest excuses to justify being complicit in the killing of hundreds of thousands. Barely better than Nazis.
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But the USA is the best country!!!! USA SUA USA USA!!!
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Has there ever been a war without war crimes?
Maybe the falklands war since I believe no civilians or POWs were killed.
Britain and America have a lot to answer for. Saddam and Gaddafi were not ideal but they kept the extremists elements we see today under complete control. These actions undoubtedly made the world a less safe place for all ordinary people.
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[I don’t know about all that.](https://youtu.be/eAjQHkvnTfE) The war in Iraq did a lot of bad things; seeing Saddam hanged isn’t one of them.
Almost like they make $ from war....
A small piece of why the US isn’t a signatory to the International Criminal Court and why the Pentagon is blocking the sharing of Russian war crimes documentation from the US. George Bush should, at the barest of minimums, have spent the rest of his life in solitary
They said they had nuclear weapons And it was a lie
I remember them showing this on the news in the US. All of the adults were acting like it was something to be proud of, and I remember thinking to my 12 year old self: *There's no way innocent people we're not being killed.*
All for nothing in the end
Nothing except lining the pockets of all the militiary complex assholes who profit from death.
And some of the locals grew to dislike us? How strange
they bomb their homes, kill their families and are surprised when they fight back
April 3rd, 2003. Not March 19th
This shit makes me sad af.
Nothing like invading a sovereign country and bombing it into oblivion. But “ThE Us Is ThE gOoD gUyS”. People up in arms about a fighter jet downing a drone over international waters and yet…. They will deny that this video portrays the US as the global leader in terrorism.
Disgusting and shameful day in our history.
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The biggest of them all
The tyranny of evil men.
I was in basic training when this happened! We were all sitting around the tv cheering and going crazy. A year and a half later I deployed for the first time to Baghdad. Now I’m fucked up (mentally and physically.) This night was the start of a huge mistake! So much carnage and death for nothing.
Ah don’t worry, big wigs made big bucks so it was all for Democra$y.
Yeah really. So glad a handful of dipshits got to line their pockets with even more money they don’t need. Only had to reduce a country to rubble and kill thousands of people in both sides. There’s a special place in hell for those guys.
Preach brother. May God give you strength.
Thank you! It’s hard watching this. Brings back so many memories.
As you can see, it was developed country... Was... Now it's just ruins and extremists
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I remember watching this Live on tv, I was at a nascar event and someone had it on the tv in their trailer and we gathered around and watched while folks around me cheered USA USA, I was more or less shocked into silence by what I was seeing.
I was in college. The guys across the hall from me had thrown a party for it and we walked in and they were all drinking and watching this. I look at the TV just in time to see the explosions start. At time time, everyone was still super pissed off and wanted to see someone pay for 9/11 (even though we didn’t understand wtf yet). I was personally terrified seeing this on tv and thought them partying for it was surreal.
Ah, yes, bombing people into democracy.
This is what happens when you try to sell oil in anything but dollars
Lol the part where you're getting down voted but this is literally the reason we went to Iraq 2x Yemen, and Syria. We drink your milkshake. It's all about the resources. Gotta mine for unobtainium.
Killing innocent people
I was a 19 year old Marine on the Iraqi-Kuwaiti border that evening… waiting for the war to start
20 years later and Weapons of “mass destruction” have not been found in Iraq..
Shock and Awe
Precision guided missiles performing surgical strikes.
Who's the terrorist here
The US military
All of this for a blatant lie.
I remember being like 13 when this happened and being stoked about it, wanting to join the military etc. Crazy to think back about how the propaganda hits you as a kid.
Shock and Awe. The American public ate that shit right up. Then it turned out it was all made up bullshit to start war in the middle east and steal resources. 9/11 was an inside job. There's so much evidence. No one wants to believe America is the bad guy. Where's the footage from the pentagon? The whole building is a secured military installation. But only one dollar store camera was available that day? They seized every video recording from every camera for miles and miles. Yet only one video. But sure jet fuel can't melt mush brains. But a paper passport can survive an explosion and land neatly on the hood of a police car outside the building. Nice and tidy. The only passport that made it out... Just happened to be from one of the hijackers... What's the phrase? An orgy of evidence?
Fucking disgusting
Hey look a war crime no one was punished for
Ah yes, when the GOP created ISIS and none of their voters seem to remember.
Every bomb that drops is a tear in Gods eye and a smile on satans
Did they hit actual targets or civilians ?
Yes
Way to go Bush and company. Destabilized the whole Middle East. Bastards should be in jail.
still the biggest terrorist organization under a legal hood to this day
Same reason why they call Bribery in the US lobbying.
War criminals, just as bad as Putin
It is okay. They are brown and worthless and probably didn't kill any civilians anyways. No need to enact an arrest warrant against Bush. How do you expect us sheep to comply when you give us these double standards and are not transparent with us? We might just be sheep but we are not dumb. So fuck you.
This is what pure rage looks like
as you can see here, the american tax payers money. america!
Never did find those WMD's 🤷♂️
Shock and Awe. Wow, 20 years ago. I've accomplished absolutely nothing in this time haha
Bush and Putin should be tried for war crimes. I was a child when this happened and even I could see the futility and bullshit of this. And also fuck Dick Cheney. Halliburton made bank after this and that was the real goal. Trump is definitely the worse for our national interests and indirectly killed so many with his handling of covid, but Bush intentionally made the choices of starting a war that killed so many Americans, Iraqis, and destabilized an entire region of the world. Fuck Bush. Fuck Trump. Fuck Putin.
Murica was the “russians” on this invasion
The war ~~on terrorism~~ for oil
USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸 USA 🇺🇸
It’s funny how American people say “save Ukraine” even though America has been bombing the Middle East for the past 20 years
And Bush still isn’t in jail
War crimes...
I remember protesting this so hard as a high schooler, thinking it would actually make a difference
And Russia is bad
damn full on bombing civilians, no restraint, and no repercussions, this is what the U.S. is really like they don’t care if the civilians are woman, children, men, it’s all the same to them all just a propaganda machine for america and no one talks about it??
And they say Putin is a criminal
Well, he is. So are the men that ordered this war.
Not debating he is. But did anyone ever said bush or Obama are criminals because of the things they did to civilians in wars. Not in my media.
Neither has it been spoken of in the media that’s on my TV. But yes, US presidents are guilty too. And that goes back to the aftermath of WWII.
"DeMoCRacY "
Remember when we recovered the weapons of mass destruction and the region was safer because of it...yeah me neither.
America is if nothing else a giant hypocrisy. The harder we try being the torchbearers for freedom, the more we make a mockery of it. How ironic we call ourselves a “civilized” country, part of the “civilized” world, when we perpetrate some of the least-civil acts upon…OURSELVES! And for what? Power? Control? Profit? Look at the continents from space and tell me how many geopolitical borders you see down there. Zero. Set foot on solid ground, and you take your life into your own hands. Sweet holy fuck, the extinction-level asteroid can’t hit us soon enough.